Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - The Radical Reverend Cheri DiNovo: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1642

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

In this 1642nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with The Radical Reverend Cheri DiNovo about how she went from living on the streets as a teenager to performing the first legal same-sex marriage registered in Canada in 2001 as a United Church minister. There's also plenty of talk about her time as an MPP and how she pushed through more LGTBQ legislation than any politician in Canadian history. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

hahahaha hahahaha radical they're getting rich off us and that kid with a backpack said radical I say radical that's my thing that I say I feel like I'm gonna explode here

ugh Toronto VK on the beat check I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love Welcome to episode 1642 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA Palma Pasta

Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future, means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto's Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Ienies, sponsored by Fusion Corp. Construction Management, Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today making her Toronto mic debut is queer activist, minister, and former MPP for Parkdale High Park. It's the radical Reverend Sherry De Novo. Well, good to be here. It's good to meet you. My goodness, the radical reverend. Before the show, I said, what should

I call you? And you said, call me Sherry. And I said, can I call you Rev? And you seemed okay with it. So is it okay if I call you Rev? It's absolutely fine. Yeah. Well, good to meet you. Yeah. I was looking forward to this and I thought, where do I begin? We originally had this in the calendar for, I guess about a week or so ago. And then we got buried in snow.

So we postponed it because of the snow. And it just so happens now here we are chatting the day after our provincial election. And since you were an MPP for Parkdale High Park. May I ask if you were surprised by what transpired last night? No, I don't think anybody was. It was almost the same as when we left, right? But yeah, great waste of our money to have it all happen. And yeah, I mean, it's disappointing,

profoundly so, I think, but unless then half the people went out to vote. That's sad. And that says a lot. It says a lot about voter cynicism. And I think that's a very dangerous place to be, quite frankly. Yeah, I think it was something like 45.4% of eligible voters got out, which is actually

up a little bit from 2022, which surprised me, but that's how bad things have got. But then I was reading back way back in the 90s, we used to be up in the 60s, 60% so just in a matter of a few decades we've plummeted, you know, 20-something on points. Yeah, no, it's, I mean, this of course supports the status quo. Like when people are cynical and they don't get off their doves to vote, then the powerful stay powerful, powerful and the people don't really speak because they're not, right? So I mean, that's the way the folk like it who are in power.

I think that's depressing. And I think, yeah, I mean mean people died for this, right? You know, so maybe just get off the couch. The weather wasn't that bad It really no and there's so many opportunities to vote ahead of time I voted the weekend before but there's there's so many opportunities to vote ahead of election day. Yeah, and yeah, there's no excuse I don't know. I don't know why it's only 45 percent, but I'm curious excuse. I don't know. I don't know why it's only 45 percent, but I'm curious what you think of Bonnie Crombie as leader of the Liberal Party because she lost her own writing yesterday. Can you lead a party if you don't win your own writing? Like, well, she already has, right? I mean, she didn't have a seat and she ran. So I don't

think much again. Nothing much has changed. Really. The liberals have added some seats. They're now official party status, but the NDP lost a seat or two really. But again, this is not dramatic. Ford didn't get the mandate that he spent all our money trying to get. So again, it's more or less the same. And I think one of the reasons for the low voter turnout is polling, constant inundate, we're constantly inundated with polls after the writ is dropped. And their country said, outlaw that.

And for good reason, because essentially what they're telling you is there's no point. If you're not a conservative, or even if you are, there's no point in getting out to vote because the results are already in. No, 100%. We knew there'd be a third majority here for Doug Ford's Progressive Conservative Party, but in this riding you're sitting in right now, there was, I get to say that past tense,

there was a MPP from the Progressive Conservative Party, Christine Hogarth, and she was defeated. So the incumbent was defeated by the liberal candidate, Lee Fairclough. And that's, I mean, there's an interesting change from this election. But yeah, I mean, that for you, that's for sure a change. But yeah, I mean, it's, but overall, nothing much, right? Nothing much. And that, you know, I mean, so don't have a family doctor? Probably not gonna get one.

Waiting in the ER for six to eight hours? Yeah, probably gonna be the same. ER closed when you get there. If you're in some communities, yeah, that's gonna keep happening. Somebody, one of the doctors posted on social media that you know you get the health care you vote for and I kind of retweeted that and said yeah and sometimes you get the health care you didn't vote for and that's really what

happened to this election. So I mean it sounds like you're not a big believer in Doug Ford as premier of this province. Just a little, yeah. But you know, and I look at it and I always think, OK, I got to vote strategically here because it's first past the post, which I can't stand, but that's the system we have. And then I realize, oh, I'd like to I'd like to usurp. I'd like to defeat the incumbent RPC candidate. And I know NDP cannot win in this riding.

This is South Etobicoke. NDP will not win. But I know that if I vote for the Liberal Party, we can defeat the progressive conservatives. But like across this province, the anyone but conservative vote gets so split between NDP and Libs. I just wonder how, like for how long

will the progressive conservative party benefit from this split that the progressive voters, pun intended, are splitting between NDP and Liberal Party? Does there need to be some uniting of the left to defeat the Progressive Conservative Party now? No, and in fact it doesn't work. When you look at the polling, especially, you know, we're inundated with polling constantly, and of course we that are kind of poll whores, you know, follow it anyway.

Um, but I mean, if you look at the federal, you know, for a while there, when Poliev was hugely leading, that's changed. But, uh, you know, they were looking at all the different combo packages, really liberals and, and none of it made a significant difference. I mean, I, I think strategic voting sucks. I think that people should vote for and not against, which is what strategic voting does. And, you know, things dramatically can shift when people do that. And we have seen that. We've seen polling, you know, be completely upended because people all of a sudden got to the polls and voted, you know,

not the way that they thought they should, but the way they wanted, you know? So I mean, it's, I say vote for, you know, vote for the candidate you like, vote for the party you like, you know, damn the polling. See, I agree with you that strategic voting sucks. You know, we'll make t-shirts, strategic voting sucks. But with the first pass, the post system, I go for these bike rides and I think on it and I realize I may believe in the NDP candidate

in this riding here, Ward 3, Lake Shore, Tobacco, but I know voting for the NDP candidate helps the progressive conservative candidate. Because I know the NDP, for better or worse, this is a Tobacco. This is like, um, the Alberta of Toronto. Okay. So for better or worse, the NDP-

It's Doug Ford territory. Yeah, for sure. Like we are closer to the lake. It gets, obviously we went liberal this time, so we get a bit more reasonable closer to the lake, but I know you have to vote strategic cause you have to do what it takes to prevent the least evil party. Like I think we need to introduce ranked ballots so that we can vote for the actual MPP we want in our riding instead of voting strategically.

Well, any proportional system is better than what we've got. For sure. I agree with you there. Like it's crazy. And, and, and quite frankly you can blame the liberals for that. I mean, they, when they have had majorities, you know, you can do anything you want with the majority government. That's very clear in many countries. But I mean, they've had those majorities and they haven't moved on that issue, on the fair vote issue. And whatever you bring in would be better than this. So really blame it on the governing party. And the problem has been that the governing party

got there by first pass of post. So they're reluctant to change it. Right. But, and here's where everything can shift very dramatically and has, I mean, the liberals went from first to worst at Queens park. Right. I mean, they, that happened, um, and it can

happen in elections. So, so yeah. Um, like get rid of first pass post undoubtedly and meanwhile I say still, you know, vote for who you want because you never ever know and pollsters have been quite wrong, right? Right and back to that whole idea of when you have a majority you can, you know, do what you want here. In 2015 I'm certain, I'm old enough to remember Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada promising to replace first pass the

post. And they got a majority. And it's still here. Yeah. It's almost like sometimes politicians lie. Yeah. And sometimes they just simply don't keep their promises and every party's guilty of that, you know? Like, uh, you know, I mean, I remember Bob Ray and we should have had the auto insurance BC has that our auto insurance would be like half the price. It is in BC and guess what?

We didn't. He ran on that. He bowed to pressure. It's always bowing to pressure usually, you know, that's what happens. So, absolutely here. So I'm so glad you're here. We're going to, you know, talk about the ongoing history of Sherry Denovo and a little bit of topical stuff off the top, one of which I'm hoping we can discuss because you're such a, you're such a queer evangelist to borrow the title of a book people should buy.

We'll talk more about that in a moment, But I'm wondering, are you hearing from American citizens who are fearful, like members of the LGBTQ plus community who are fearful because of Trump's rhetoric? He signed an executive order on his first day, I think, saying there's only two biological sexes, right? There's only two biological sexes. And I was actually chatting very recently with Marcy Ian who's an MP and I said like Could you theoretically? Try to qualify as a refugee if you're a trans person living in the United States right now Like are you hearing from a lot of people in the states that are worried? Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's It's dangerous down there. I mean depending

on where you are, it's dangerous. I mean way before Trump was elected, I booked what I normally do, which is to go to southern California. My nephew and his husband live in San Diego and we all meet up in Palm Springs and family comes from here and there and everywhere. And you know, I mean there are these little places that, I mean California is pretty cool. Every time you know, I mean, there are these little, you know, places that, I mean, California is pretty cool. Every time you said we were Canadian, people apologize to us, you know? So, but I mean, yeah, there are some places that are just downright dangerous. And, and they're rogue states like Florida and Texas and others, where, you know, I, yeah, don't say gay, and don't be gay, that's for sure. So, I mean, this is going to get worse. And by the way, it's know, I, yeah, don't say gay and don't be gay, that's for sure.

So, I mean, this is going to get worse. And by the way, it's here too. Three of our provinces have brought in anti-trans legislation, which is outing high school students or elementary students to their parents if they're, if they're questioning their gender. I mean, this is, you know, this, this is putting already at risk children more at risk. This will up the suicide rate.

So we're only slightly, slightly better. I mean, we still have laws in place, but provinces are overturning them. So now more than ever, I mean, that's my focus now is just trying to save children, because that's where we're at. We're at trying to save children. It sounds like we're going backwards here.

We are. We are. Luckily the laws here in Ontario have not changed. But I'm holding my breath and we're getting out ahead of it. I really love talking in high schools and universities to educators, particularly, or to anybody who'll listen, because, it's really important for them to know their history and them to know what laws we have like banning conversion therapy it still goes on because people don't know that there is a law preventing it from for minors so so they just call it something different right so so things like this are so important they they save lives i was

talking to a couple with a trans daughter who committed suicide after going through conversion therapy. I mean, this is happening in our province here. So yeah, don't be too comfortable. Yeah, that's happening today in Ontario? Yeah, yeah. This was at the Pride. I spoke at the Pride flag raising at City Hall and one of the speakers was one of those parents. And I went up to them after and said you should sue this person. Easier said than done, right, but I mean they have broken the law and they're part of a professional association, they should know that, but they don't and they just call it something different. I mean we're gonna

get to your ongoing history here, find out, you know, who made you who you are today. But you know, we'll talk about the Affirming Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Act from, I guess that goes back to 2012 or whatnot. It sounds like it sounds like there are, you know, there's people are just ignoring the law. Oh, absolutely. I mean, well, you know, trans rights or human rights

is basically what that law said. Absolutely. And that was in 2012. It was the first in Canada. It was the first in any major jurisdiction in North America, actually. It took me multiple tablings to pass that bill. And remember, I had no power, third party,

and back to the wall. So again, another reason for voting with your heart, because if you get a champion, it doesn't matter where they're sitting, they can really go to bat for whatever your particular interests are. So, but yeah, so that was a major breakthrough. Yeah, I got the honorary role as at Pride that year and stuff But I mean again and banning conversion therapy. It's the 10th anniversary this year passed in 2015

And that was for minors that passed in a remarkably short time. This was working across the aisle Which again doesn't much happen anymore sadly at Queen's Park. I mean, all the bills, except for that one actually, banning conversion therapy, I got passed with a member from another political party, a conservative and a liberal. So that kind of cooperation to get something done is just absent from Queen's Park, which is sad. Well, I mean, I was reading that you passed more private members bills into law than anyone in Ontario history. I know it's wacky, right? And that's why I know.

Oh, I know. One of the clerks told me that I had no idea. Yeah. I mean, again, working with others with we had no power. I had no power. And if you got an idea whose time has come and you've got and of course nothing happens alone. I mean, you know, huge number of activists behind any of these bills and there's always a face that goes with them.

One person that came into your constituent office or that you talked to that really was a champion. But I mean, you know, that happened and we got so much done that way. And you know, this is kind of ongoing work that people don't see as committee work at Queen's Park and on the hill in Parliament and you know political parties cross the aisle, work together all the time. They come up with great suggestions on a number of different topics, inevitably none of them are acted on. So there's your tax dollars at work of and maybe one or two out of 30s, you know, but but so that does go on. It can go on. We proved it. But it's yeah, it's it's just hyperpartisan now

and it's it's the Tories are not prone to working with others. So I have to get you to Queen's Park, but I realized where I want to begin and I want to find out who you were before you sign on to We Demand. This is 1971 we're going back to here. So would you mind taking us back a little bit about your upbringing, your youth and then signing on to We Demand back in 1971? Yeah sure so We Demand was the first quotes and quotes gay demonstration in Canadian history that we're aware of on Parliament Hill. And we say there were 100 people there,

I think that's pushing it. I see us as a band of kind of utopian hippies, queer utopian hippies, right? And there was a great, I have a great picture of the first Pride, which was at Hanlon's Point, the same year, the same group, and there's maybe 30 in that picture you know a few of us left alive kind of thing. Well in 50 years we'll be talking about the 50,000 people who were there. Well there was a good crowd to unveil a plaque there just this last year so

that's nice. But yeah so I mean I was always an activist, I was a young socialist, a member of the young socialists back then and And so but I never had an interest in electoral politics I mean I saw some street action and action and we actually thought those we demand demands We thought they were completely utopian even we did I mean at that point I mean you could be fired then people wouldn't rent you because you were queer, etc. And in fact, one person that signed on to those said, we didn't win them all, but I mean, it's a minor issue.

I think not only did we win them all for the most part, but we also won more besides like we didn't even think about same sex marriage, for example, we won that too. So, so I mean, it's been phenomenal. We didn't have an understanding of trans rights back then in the way that we do now. So again It's a great and I tell the story often because people are so hopeless these days It's like, you know band of utopian hippies, you know actually change the laws of the country and you can too If you can do it, we can do it here. So I was reading, you know, you're kind of part of your

origin story is that you were living on the streets as a teenager. Yeah, I mean not unlike a lot of queer kids now even. So yeah, it was a little less harsh back then. I mean you could rent a room for 25 bucks a week. But you know, we couch-surfed, we, you know, slept at Queens Park. I laughed when I got elected because I looked out on places I used to sleep when I was a kid when it was warm weather. We would just hang out all night. But, yeah, and, yeah, home wasn't safe for a variety of reasons. Streets were safer. And that's usually what you'll hear from street kids of that.

They, you know, got kicked out of the house. I didn't get kicked out. I walked out, but, um, same thing. And, um, yeah. And I I'm pleased for that origin really now because it taught me to be incredibly self-sufficient, which I've been since 15. So, um, this is the first time in life.

I haven't worked full time every day. So. Are you retired now? I'm semi, I like to say semi retired because I'm, I still do public speaking. I'm running for moderator of the United Church. So if then you're commissioners that get to

votes, very weird bureaucratic system there. Um, in August, that's a long shot, but so I'm still hands in, I, I'm never going to totally be out of church and state. I'm kind of foot in both, but yeah, but I'm not doing church full time, which I was for the last seven years. So, okay. So what I need to know about being ordained. I called you Rev.

I think I started with the radical clip from the Simpsons, right? Because I'm a child of the 80s. Yeah. And everything was radical. Like, I don't know what I guess. I feel like possibly maybe terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and such ISIS. It took the word radical and sort of changed the connotation is what happened.

So it's like we stopped using radical because people were confusing, thinking it meant something far worse. But everything was radical. You're the radical reverend. So please tell me about like your journey with the United Church. Sure. So I walked into the United Church in 1988 when it was the only denomination in North

America that ordained openly queer folk, gay and lesbians at that time. And I thought, wow, that's pretty cool. I also walked in there because they were one of the few institutions that came out against the Iraq invasion. And at that point, I was making a bunch of money. I was living in the suburbs. I had two kids.

And the other reason I always say is that we were driving along in Richmond Hill and my son looked at an evangelical neon sign outside a church and said, Mom, what's that lighted T for? And so I thought, oh, this isn't good. How are they ever going to read Shakespeare? I mean, if you don't know something about the canon of Judeo-Christian history, then you're going to miss half of English literature, essentially.

So I thought, okay, where can I walk into a church? I don't have to leave my brains at the door and the kids will learn these stories, which they were just stories to me. Um, and, uh, and so I did, and I walked into the church that had a, an open forum on, um, the Iraq war. And that was also, you know, pro queer. Um, and that was, you know, a long time ago. So, I mean, I, you know, and as one does, when you get, walk into places, I got more and more involved, had a great minister back then, I still consider her a friend and, um, yeah, and just kind of never left. And at that point, my,

the business world was shifting too in the early nineties. Um, my business wasn't doing so well. We could, I mean, it did very well. What was your business? Um, we were affectionately called head hunters, but personnel, um, recruit, recruit. Of course. Oh, I, look, I remember when they were called head hunters, that's also gone in the do not use pile.

I know, I know that industry has gone the way of anvil salesman, but you'll still talk to somebody. Typically they'll be in their sixties or so who will talk about, oh, I just talked to a headhunter or I'm being headhunted or whatever. We know what they mean. Yeah. I mean, they still exist for in a very kind of small portion of the labor market, but yeah.

So the industry was shifting. There was a recession in the early nineties and I thought, well, I could still, you know, I'd have to go back into sales more than I it had to do than just rely on a client base. I would have had to kind of maybe work twice as hard for half as much. But I could have made it work and I, but it gave me a breathing space. You know, when the money's kind of rolling in, it's really hard to walk away from it. But that gave me a little bit of space to think, okay, so do I really want to do that? And I thought, nah, I don't, I can free up some equity and I can go back to school

and do my masters. And at that point, and that was, and I wanted to learn more about theology. Didn't know I wanted to be ordained, but once I went to seminary, that kind of became clear that that was my path. Yeah. Well, yes, I'm curious.

So permission to speak frankly here? Of course, absolutely. Okay, so we talked about, you're a queer activist. You know, we talked about 1971 when you were, I think you were the only woman to sign on to We Demand. So you're many a first for you, that's quite something here. But I take it you believed in God? No, no, in fact, I didn't.

The joke with the minister was I didn't believe in God, but I did believe that Jesus was God's son, right? Um, I mean, I mean, I just really, I really like the stories of Jesus. I, there's a, and I, I thought the deity through him, which I still do in many ways. I mean, when people say God, inevitably they've, they've got the, you know, the, the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in their heads and it's an old white guy with a long beard and too many muscles. Right. So, I mean, I, that is not what God is. And it's not even God, the Christian God because you know, it's like three in one, right? Yeah. So, I mean, so, so we could get into a whole, you know, it's like three in one, right? Holy Trinity. Yeah. So, I mean, so, so we could get into a whole, you know, rabbit hole about that.

But the bottom line is I've learned that what I thought define God was not what God was and that I could be, you know, kind of a Jesus freak without having to buy into any of that kind of mythology. And so that's where I'm still at. Okay, but you could believe in the power of Christ, if you will, you know, the fact that he's kind of like a cool hippie. Yeah, well, he was. He doesn't have to be the Son of God. He was the original, well, aren't we all? I mean, in some ways, you know, he was the original communist is what he was. I mean, each according to their ability, you know, he was the original communist just what he was I mean each according to their ability, you know from each according to their ability to each according to their needs

That was Jesus and he lived it right? So a couple of thousand years before Marx So, I mean there is there's that so he he modeled what that looks like And also lived what that looks like and yeah So so that that's a pretty good guru if you want to use that word to follow. Sure. Okay, so when you were ordained, what church were you a reverend at? Well the United Church of Canada, which is still Canada's largest Protestant denomination, even though it shrunk a lot. And so you're ordained into the denomination and then you go,

like most people go looking for a job in a church, right? And so that's how it works. Okay. And is it a Emmanuel Howard Park United Church? That was the one that, yeah, I did the first legalizing sex marriage. Okay, tell me about that. Yeah, sure. There's a lot of firsts with you,

which is very cool here, But is it even possible? I'm right now talking to the person who performed the first legalized same-sex marriage in this country Yeah, it's true. That's a big deal. It is a big deal. And you know what? It's it's elu it's you know, here's when you live long enough and I'm like older than dirt when you live long enough You you get to see history rewritten in front of your eyes. And so there's a lot of rewriting of history, especially writing women out and especially writing people of color.

I mean, indigenous have taught us that if no one else, um, and so it was me performing a marriage of two women of color. Um, yeah. And we did it before the law had changed in Ontario or in Canada. Um, but we did it by the law had changed in Ontario or in Canada, but we did it by this ancient practice called reading the bands.

So I read the bands out, which you can still do if you get married in a church. So all you have to do is announce that you're going to do this for two weeks in a row. And if nobody objects, you fill in the bands form, you don't get a license from City Hall. And then you send that in as official government form and we did that. Um, and he doesn't say male or female, just says bride and groom. So we filled in Paula and Blanca were their names of South American.

And so I guess the registrar in a holy act, we say inspired by God, um, thought that Paula was a man's name and signed off and sent them a license. So it became the first legalized and then all hell broke loose. Of course, government of Ontario threatened to take away my license. Church strangely was silent in terms of supporting us and in my congregation in doing that. And I did what every good Christian does, I joke and I called a lawyer in CBC.

So that's what saved me in the interim. But by the end of that year, just shortly after that, it had hit the Supreme Court in Ontario and they had rendered it anti-charter. So then it got kicked back to, you know, so basically de facto became legal. And we managed to weather the storm between the hoopla and that happening and the marriage stood. So, um, so there it is. Amazing. Now for those keeping track at home, that was 2001. Yes. It's like only 24 years ago.

I know, but it is 24 years ago. I mean, think about it. It's a long time. So what makes you just, at what point do you decide, Hey, I'm going to enter this blood sport called politics? Oh, I never had, I never thought of it was not my idea at all. Um, Peggy Nash, who was our MP at that point, I mean, I had a nominal NDP membership had probably, you know, gone, gone out, you know, out, um, 10

years before or something. Um, but, um, she came and asked if I would consider it running provincially and I never had, and it took me about three months to say yes. But she came and asked if I would consider it running provincially and I never had and it took me about three months to say yes and I got some great advice from a couple of my congregants. One said, you know, I wouldn't wish to sell my worst enemy, but I think you should run. Another said, you know, being asked by a political party to run is like being asked to the quarterback

to the high school prom. It's flattering, but then you have to spend the evening with a football player. I mean, there were some great lines. I took them all into account. I had no idea. I was so green what I was walking into. And I think that's why I did it. If I had known, I might have had second thoughts. Yeah. So when you're running for to become MPP for Parkdale High Park, it's important to know that the previous MPP was Gerard Kennedy, right? A liberal. Not only a liberal, but he was a cabinet minister and he was running for leadership of the federal party, which is why he left that role.

Yeah, so it was quite a coup for the party. They hadn't had that seat in decades. Then I won four more times, so I was there for a bit. Yeah, you're there for I think about 11 years or so. And do you remember who was running for the Liberal Party the first time you were elected? Oh, Sylvia Jones, I think I can't. Do you keep track? Like do you keep track of who the primary, because in that riding, I'm going to be biking to that riding in about an hour, so I know that riding is not in danger of going progressive conservative.

No, it's been, it's in fact not in danger. It's one of two safe seats in Ontario for the NDP here, you know. So I mean, no, it's, but it never was, never was federally and never was, it was very, very liberal for a long, long time. So the fact that, um, we won federally and then Peggy won and lost and won and lost, and then I kept winning, um, certainly provincially, it's a safe seat. Uh, Alexa Gilmore just won and she went by a wide margin.

I mean, there was no contest really. I didn't even, I saw maybe a half dozen liberal signs. I mean, again, that's part of the problem first pass the post in a sense, you know, um, know, once, but it also shows, like my election did, that that can be upturned. So your MPP from like 2006 to 2017, and we did touch on this, but maybe you'll elaborate, but you passed more private members bills into law than anyone in Ontario's history. So maybe now is a good time to maybe

toot your own horn a little bit and talk about you did we did touch on some of these trans rights. Trans rights banning conversion therapy trans day of remembrance is the only one still in Canada which requires people to stand for a moment of silence. Parent equality those are just the queer bills but there are a lot of others, you know, things like $10 minimum wage, things like PTSD coverage for first responders, you know, that covers police, firefighters, paramedics, you know, dispatchers. I mean, that also I tabled five times before, you know, it got some clout and then the government, you know, sometimes the government would end up bringing them in as their own bill,

but they always originated in my desk and were noted as my first tabling. So, so yeah, there's, there are quite a few. I mean, there are a lot of them. The very first one that I did is Tri-Party Bill was recognizing the Hall of Demorah as a genocide in Ukraine, which, you know, you know, I was thinking about that bill the other day and that was a triparty bill. And yes, we did. And just like prayers for Ukraine right now, just saying. Well, literally, I think within the last 90 minutes, there was a Zelensky was at the White House and the VP and the POS POTUSA were basically

belittling him like you're not grateful enough come back when you're ready to you know say thank you kiss the ring and basically give up some land to our buddy Putin like it's really the darkest timeline. Oh yeah and actually it's really impacting our political landscape too, that very issue. I mean, that very issue to see that Trump is, among other things, in Putin's pocket, is scaring all of the Ukrainians and Polish and Eastern Europeans in our communities,

and we have a lot of them, especially in the West End of Toronto, as you may know. So this is really changing the landscape of the, of the voting. And we see that with, you know, the, the liberal fortunes shifting. I mean, that, that has play. And it, uh, that's one of many issues, but, but certainly the association of our conservatives with their Republicans isn't doing them proud these days. Yeah. It upsets, it upsets me. I'm not even sure what I can do. Maybe you can tell as a guy living in South Etobicoke here, what exactly can I do? But when I, it's just such a horrific

turn of events where it's anyone with any reasonable ability to read the news and kind of be critical with your analysis of it, that Trump is somehow beholden to Putin. Oh yeah and of course Musk. So I mean this is an oligarch, so oligarch and and this is I mean let's face it this is a many people throw on the term fascist but that's where we're headed. I mean he's gotten rid of the fourth estate essentially, freedom of the press is under attack, everything's under attack. And it makes you thankful for our parliamentary system in part. I just have to shout out to the parliamentary system because like our prime ministers don't

have the power to just write edicts the way that presidents do in a republic. So yeah, I mean, it's, and that's the way Hitler did it. He got elected to minority, but got elected and just kept writing off those executive orders changing everything. I just wish when progressives got government they'd do the same thing. The Democrats blew it in retrospect. They could have protected us far more than they did. Yes, the Tories always stack the courts.

They could have too. You know what I mean? And it's just, again, we see this time and time again when progressive governments get into power, when they could change dramatically the way things are done, they don't and they bow to pressure. And then when conservatives get into power, they run amok, right? So hopefully that's a lesson to all the progressives out there, you get some power,

do something with it for heaven's sakes. Well, I'm thinking of a quote from Michelle Obama. I think the quote went something like, when they go low, we go high. Okay. And I'm, I mean, I'm a pretty nice, fair guy. Okay. I'm happy to see you. We're going to have a nice chat. We might not agree on anything, but it's going to be a civil discussion. But this, when they go low, we go high bullshit is a recipe for disaster. No. Oh yeah. Get, get down there, get dirty. They're going to fight dirty, we fight back. Yeah, and it's true in the church too, like when you see Christo-nationalism, you see all the problems that are happening down there that stem in the churches. I just look at

you know, Nazi Germany, all of a sudden we're all talking about it. But you know, 98% of the churches, a lot of them hanging Nazi flags, swastikas in their sanctuaries, about 2% of the church was the confessing church. And I'm basically running on that now. You know, we're too nice. Nice is a four-letter word when you're dealing with fascists. You don't, you know, you don't bullies or you don't negotiate, you know, stand up to them. That's what you do. And, and I don't feel like we're still doing that in Canada. Like we shouldn't be letting Trump in the country. We shouldn't, we should be rescinding Musk's Canadian citizenship, who knew he had one. And we should be like, yeah, standing up to this

bully. I read, I read something that we can't actually, like, with the current legislation, we can't rescind that citizenship. Like, the only way you can take it away is if he got it by fraud or something to that effect. Like, it is a nice symbolic thing. Charlie Angus was here a few weeks ago, and I know he's behind some kind of petition, but I don't believe it's legally possible to actually take away Musk's Canadian citizenship. Oh, that would be interesting. I think you can if you can prove that they have committed crimes.

And I think he's walking, he prove that they have committed crimes. And I think he's walking, he's like, Australia's done it. They're in Commonwealth country with a parliamentary democracy modeled on the mothership. And they've essentially spanned him from taking part in their elections and other people like Macron's doing it in France. He's acted there to like freeze his holdings and things. I mean, other countries are doing something and they're certainly doing way more than we are. So I would like to see us do more. Yeah. And you mentioned the mothership. Don't you feel like with this 51st state rhetoric and

this threat of annexation that our mothership has been less than parental. And yeah, yeah. What's this with, I stand up for us. I know like, I want to say, Oh, I want the, I want the greatest hockey player of all time to say something and yeah, that would be nice. But let's, let's what about, you know, mother England? And yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was, that was very disappointing. I mean, this is, but you but you're seeing it happen, right? Like this is what happens when there's a bully. This is what happened with Germany. I mean, you see people kiss up rather than be invaded or suck up rather than have tariffs. And they think this is working because you know what's gonna happen.

It's just more demands. Like you bullies don't back down, right? So, and that is quintessential Trump. So yeah. Boy. Now, going back to when you were an MPP for those many years. So Howard Hampton was the leader of the NDP party in this province and then he was stepping down. So how close was it? I know Andrea Horvath becomes the leader of that party, but how close was it to, you know, the radical reverend being leader of the NDP party in this province? Oh, I had no aspirations for that job at all. I supported Peter Tabins and that race didn't win.

But yeah, that wasn't where I wanted to spend my time. I was happy just getting stuff done. Like that was, and my electors, you know, like that. I mean, the people that elected me elected me because I was kind of queen of the Tri Party bill and got things done. And activists liked me, they knew they could come to me and get someone who would listen and not only listen and give them a polite shuffle at the door, but actually act on something and be realistic too. Like there were lots of great ideas, right?

But to be realistic with them and tell them the truth, you know, this is a great idea, but not gonna fly right now. So, I mean, that's what I enjoyed. So some may have floated you, but you were never on board with running for the leader. No, no, yeah. That wasn't what I wanted to do.

Spend my money and my time on and, uh, yeah, I supported Mahert in her role. Um, and, uh, yeah. Um, but no. Okay. What about federally? Um, no, um, it's kind of, it's kind of interesting. I was asked by the party if I would see running

there and I said, no. Um, I, I reluctant to say, well, if you've got nobody else and, you know, has talked to everybody else and there are people that should have that job way before me is what I basically suggested. Um, and I, I'm not, and I wasn't interested in running provincially either after I gave it some thought, um thought even in a safe seat Because you know, I've been there done that and you're up against I mean look at the odds at Queen's Park now I mean, I yeah, I don't like those odds even in official opposition

I mean, you know, are they getting anything done or any bills getting passed very very very few, right? I mean, that's the reality there. Okay. Because you did, you did run right for, I mean, Tom, all care, replacing Tom, all care. You did run officially. Yeah, I did put my hat in the ring there. Um, Cause it's like 30 grand or something to do that. Right. Like there's a fee attached. Well, I didn't get to that point. I mean, at that point I had some, um, what were quite

serious health problems. I had too many strokes, um, in kind of rapid succession. And so that took me out of that game. And I'm, I, you know, this is, this is the hand of God in some ways, cause I'm glad that, that I didn't pursue that. Um, actually, um, now I, that would have been, yeah, no, I'm glad I, it's not something I want to do. I, I actually love church work and even there, I don't want to do that full-time I found that where I think I'm most effective and if there is such a thing as call which I do believe in for us all you know what's your call for all your bliss and all of that it is trying to save kids lives and and the best way to do that is to speak

as often as I can to as many people as will hear me on 50 years of queer activism and how we got here and why we should stay here. Well Saving Kids Lives, I'm in favour of it. I want to go on the public record here, I'm pro-Saving Kids Lives. So at the end of this chat, we'll dive into that a little deeper. But I want to, so you had a couple of strokes. I mean, can you share a little more? There were many like TIAs they call them, but it was a wake up call to like,

Oh, maybe I should be looking after me for a while here. And honestly, working 12 hours a day, which politics and church sometimes demand. Um, I, I found, yeah, I'm enough yeah, enough of that. Enough of that. And you haven't had any strokes since? No, no, there's the, in a miracle of hypertensive drugs. It's gonna ask you, so, because they put me on a blood thinner. Are you on blood thinners?

Yeah, they're mainly diuretics actually for hypertension. But yeah, that, I mean, yeah. Okay, the radical reverend knows her medicine here too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that I mean, yeah. Okay. The radical reverend knows her medicine here too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, bottom line is for all of these things, it's all the good things, you know, eat well, exercise, blah, blah. What is your exercise of choice? I'm like, I used to be a runner when I was younger and now I'm a walker.

I try to get my 10,000 steps in every day and pretty well do that, average that anyway. So yeah, so and do a bit of weights and yeah, I still, yeah, it's important. It's important to keep your body fit. Might not save you, but gives you an extra year or two. Well speaking of running, now I'm thinking of when Kathleen Wynne was running for premiere and all those ads she's doing these runs. What was your relationship and what is it like with Kathleen Wynne?

Oh we're friends. In fact, just this week I'm on a panel with her and Christine Elliott at Victoria University. We're doing a panel about kind of what it was like to work together because we did. And so yeah, I mean I worked with Kathleen to get some things done. And there's lots of things that the Liberal government of that day did that I was definitely not in favor of. But on query issues, for example, we were on the same page. So it was really handy to have somebody that I could talk to across the aisle on those issues.

And yeah, so there's that. And Christine Elliott signed on to my, just think about it, a conservative signed on to my trans rights bill. So there was that. And a conservative, Lisa McLeod, signed on to my Trans Day of Remembrance bill. So thank God for that, because now that there's conservatives in power, they got some splaining to do, you know, if they backtrack on that. Well, I mean, hopefully they have better sense than that.

But why do you think it happens so much? So it's so rare now that people cross the aisles and collaborate with a member of the other party. It just seems now like it's our team versus their team. There's very little working together collaboration. Yeah, I mean it does happen as I said on committee work, but it is. It's very sad and I don't like it and that's not an atmosphere I think that's conducive to getting anything done. So yeah, let's get rid of first-past-the-post number one. And second of all, if you're already elected, please, please, please.

You can work on something. You can work on something with conservatives. So look for the something. OK, I'm going to give you a gift here. Take a little moment before we get back to it. Loving this very much. But this is a loaded question, radical reverend. But do you enjoy Italian food?

Yeah. My last name's De Novo. No, I know here, but you never, you know, you never know. I think I, my last guest, I'm like, I got Italian food and he's like, I'm celiac and I'm like, oh crap. Like there's going to be a lot of gluten in this lasagna here. Would you take home with you today a frozen lasagna from Palma pasta, a delicious Italian food in Mississaug and Oakville. Of course I would. Okay. It would be my delight.

Worth the drive then. Absolutely. You'll be going home with a lasagna from Palma Pasta. Does the Radical Reverend enjoy a can of craft beer now and then? Do you drink it all? I'm not a beer drinker. I'm a wino, but I know beer drinkers and I like to have some in the fridge, so sure enough. Okay, I'll send you home with some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery.

They're here in southern Etobicoke. And I have a measuring tape for you, the good people at Ridley Funeral Home. As a reverend, have you, what's the term I'm looking for, presided? Yes, lots of funerals. And in fact, I still do funerals and weddings folks So if you're getting married and if and you don't have to be queer How many queer but it helps because then you can say the person who ordained the first? Queer wedding and and certainly I presided at funerals for all sorts of folk

so and those are those are you know you know, those joyous and depressing and sad times are the times that I think people are most at their spiritual, and I like to be part of that, and it's definitely something that I continue. Just this morning, I recorded a new episode of Building Toronto's Skyline, which is a podcast from Nick Ienies from Fusion Corp Development, Inc. and we talked about skyscrapers. There's a big skyscraper going at One Young Street. There's another one if it ever gets done at Young and called The One at Young and Bloor. So suddenly we have skyscrapers

in the city over 300 meters and Nick's the expert when it comes to this development and I urge people expert when it comes to this development. And I urge people to subscribe and listen to Building Toronto Skyline. Just before we get off Ridley Funeral Home, they have a measuring tape for you, Sherry, that's for you to measure what you wish. You never know if you have to measure something.

And Brad, who is the owner and the funeral director at Ridley Funeral Home, he has a great podcast and we recorded a fresh episode this week. His podcast is called Life's Undertaking and we were speaking with there's a hospice, it's close to Sherway Gardens actually, Dorothy Lee hospice and somebody from the Dorothy Lee hospice came by and we talked about that important service. They're doing a wonderful work at this hospice. Wonderful. No, I have worked with funeral directors and, you know, yeah, it's a really important service and again, it's something officiating at those moments

in families' lives is an honor and still do it. Well, much like you felt a calling, right, when you became a Reverend like you felt a calling, right? When you became a Reverend, you felt a calling. And when I talked to Brad, he describes his work as a funeral director as a calling. Absolutely. I mean, it's part of every faith that you have people that prepare bodies, that look after our bodies when we are no

longer in them, and that deal with families in their worst moments. And it's an honour. And you have to be, yeah, you have to be called to work like that and work like ministry. Yeah, absolutely. Last tip for you before I ask you about a special Award you received in 2022 But I just want to let everybody know that if you have old cables old electronics old devices in a drawer Maybe it's in a room who knows in a closet

Don't throw it in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill go to recycle my electronics dot Ca and put in your postal code and find out where you can drop it off to be Properly recycled you got it Reverend Yeah, okay You were awarded the order of Canada Right. Yeah so you got a pin I Got a medal. It's a medal. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's the pin?

Is that like a companion to the Order of Canada? Like a, yeah. Oh, you get a lapel pin that you're supposed to wear if you're in public and I have a couple of those kicking around. So you're you're proud to receive this designation. Wonderful. Okay. Highest honor. Do you know Wayne Gretzky has never received his Order of Canada? Really? Yeah, I was just reading about it. It's been years. He's never gone to Ottawa and, uh, I guess you can

get it in a private ceremony, but you're supposed to do with others who are receiving it. Right. But, uh, and that actually is wonderful. I wasn't, I wasn't sure what I was walking into. I thought it might be a little like a high school graduation, but it was, um, it was fantastic.

I mean, you meet amazing people at these things and Hey, uh, being in the governor general's house is always a treat and the food was good too. So there you go. Yeah. Do you remember who else received the Order of Canada at your ceremony? Yeah, Jan Martel, I think that's his name, author of Life of Pi was there. And it was funny because he's a very small man, very nondescript looking, wasn't dressed

up at all. Nobody was talking to him in the sort of anti-room before we were introduced. And, um, and I was wondering who this guy was. And then after we found out who he was, cause he got the order of Canada, um, my daughter and I immediately rushed over cause we're such fans and talked to him and he's the sweetest man.

He was there with his mom. He's French Canadian and, uh, talked about his next book. And so we had our fangirl moments, which was lovely. So yeah, you get to meet people like that. And yeah, it's an amazing honor. I mean, I've got lots and lots of others, but that was particularly special. Yeah. You, do you still have your radio show, the radical reverend? I do been doing it for like 27 years. So yeah. So tell me about this. So this is on CIUT.

Yes. Um, CIT 89.5 FM. And you can listen to it in podcast too. The Radical Reverend wherever you get those. Um, and yeah, I've been doing it for forever. Um, I took a brief hiatus when I was first selected and then went back as three women. We changed the name of the show and I'd have a woman from each from different political parties come and talk about political issues. I have a great photo of Christine Elliott and Kathleen Wynne and me all there. So I mean it was fun and it is fun and it tends to be political but it's not always. Sometimes it's about faith. Yeah. So if somebody, because obviously we're speaking to podcast listeners, so you're fishing where the fish are. The name of the podcast to subscribe to is Three Women? No, The Radical Reverend.

Okay. It is The Radical Reverend. The Radical Reverend. Three Women was only in place for a few years back then., um, because I was in politics, but yeah, no I'm back to being who I am. And how often do you do drop new episodes of the radical every single week? It used to be summer hiatus and now we just go full time all year.

So good for you. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome here. Now you mentioned you're focusing these days on saving kids' lives. Could we maybe spend a little more time on that? As the powers that be are waging war on trans and gender diverse folk, that means trans and gender diverse children. That's who they're aiming it at and their families. And denying children health care is what it amounts to.

So that's horrendous in and of itself. But also just outing them to parents who probably if they were supportive would already know that their child is trans or gender diverse. And if they don't, that endangers the child at home and puts them more at risk of suicide. They're already at risk of suicide. We know that queer kids are most at risk of suicide of all kids, and queer kids of color add to that. So that's what's happening, and it's happening across our country, it's happening across

the states, it's happening around the world. And it's a real huge step backwards from all the rights that we've been fighting for for 50 years. And trust me, folk, if you're LGBTQ and you're not a T, they're going to be coming for you next too, because we know how this movie goes. And we already know that in some states, you know, you can't say gay. Well, guess what? The same sex marriage is on the chopping block too.

Everything that we fought for is on the chopping block. Um, we can't go back and you see what they've done with women's rights. So we no longer in, in much of this world have control over our own bodies. Um, and now, you know, with the overturning of Roe versus Wade. So this is the era we're in. And if you ever wondered what you would be doing in 1930s in Germany, guess what? You're there. What you're doing is what you'd be doing. So live into that moment. It sounds like you're describing the Handmaid's Tale.

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what's happening down there isn't it? I mean it's not quite as colorful and well scripted but yeah that's what's happening and again we this this has been in the making for a while now they have the power. Okay and we could spend all you know you spend hours talking about down there but let's maybe we focus on Canada Yeah, I feel happening here, too. So that's that's so let me ask you some real specific questions here Okay, so yeah, cuz I'm just thinking of my life So I got four kids, but I'm thinking I have a boy who's turning 11 like very soon. He'll be 11 years old

Yeah, so I'm just want to stand so let's take me out of the equation But if my son confides, I don't know at school to a guidance counselor or maybe to his teacher or something he confides that I'm trying to so that he identifies as a him. For heterosexual people, I try to give them an analogy. What if you confided in your guidance counselor and said, you know what, I'm having sex and I'm 15 or 14 or something. Would you want them telling your parents? No, no, no. Exactly. So why should they divulge anything that's personal, that's divulged to you in private, to somebody supportive,

to other people. This is overriding the rights of a child, right? And putting them in danger. So again, try to like, this is about privacy and this is about confidentiality and this is about those therapeutic moments, you know, that we've always held as kind of sacrosanct. And yeah, and that's breaching all of that. So as, but as we speak in Ontario, there is no law that says the teacher needs to inform

the parents of it. And in fact, there couldn't be because it goes against Toby's law, which is trans rights. It goes against the laws of the country too, because trans rights are in our now federal. But the only way the provinces got around that is bringing in the notwithstanding clause, which is a way of overriding charter rights. So that sounds like the executive orders. Exactly. That is what it is. And so you've got three provinces that have done that. So I mean, for for what? To take away the rights of children. And this is outrageous, right? So parents, if you value your children's, you know, good relationships with other adults

in their lives that they're confiding in, yeah, I mean, you want your children to be able to confide in teachers and guidance counselors. Okay, so let me, so there's one thing when we talk about your questioning your gender, your sexuality, but what about actually intervening with like hormones and in procedures? Okay, so there's all sorts of misinformation about that. Nobody is performing surgery on children. So get that out of your head. That is not happening. And we have one of the best gender clinics anywhere and that's at SickKids right here in Toronto. And you know it's a long long process even to get any any drugs of any sort. This is a long process involves therapy, it involves all sorts of things, medical, it does involve parents if you're a minor, of course. I mean it involves all of that.

And nothing is done lightly and nothing is done irreversibly either. So this is just, you know, they've picked on a very small portion of the population. And this is the way, you know, dictatorships work. We've seen this movie before, folks. First they came, and the same thing happened in Germany. They hit trans people first. Berlin was a mecca for queers. They had lots of queer clubs and lots of,

they had sex reassignment surgery in Berlin. It was a centre throughout Europe. So the Nazis hit on them first because nobody understands it and if you maybe haven't met one, and so that was an easy one. And then they just branched out from there, to communists, to Jews, to everybody else.

So, I mean, this is how it works. And so don't get taken up with fear. Whatever you fear, you become what you fear is an old spiritual axiom. But I mean, yeah, if you act like a dictator where your children concern, guess what? Yeah. So glad you're here because there is a lot of misinformation on this front. Huge amounts of misinformation. And it's it's done as a scare tactic. It's done to, you

know, oh, look over here at the accident. Don't look over there at the fact that, by the way, you're making less than you ever made. By the way, your expenses are higher than they ever were. I mean, by the way, you don't have a family doctor. Don't look at the real issues. No, no, no, no, be frightened about puberty blockers. Like, I mean, in what world is this a major issue? But they make it the major issue because they don't want you to talk about

what are the major issues. And that's the problem. Well, that's a huge problem problem and speaking of huge problems, why, help me understand why anti-trans has become so mainstream? Jordan Peterson among others, I mean you've got some social media influencers who have taken up this, you've got, like it's, it's, again, it's, it's fear mongering for a very small percentage of population. It's people, it's stirring up fear in for in places that people, you know, don't know and about issues they have no idea about and feeding them misinformation.

I mean, this is like, you know, fake news. And it's fake news targeting people who have been the subject for bullying forever. These are the most vulnerable people. These are the people who get beaten up already without all of this happening. These are the most at risk kids. I mean, so pick on them, why don't we?

I mean, it's really that ugly and it's really that stupid and it's really that time tested. It works. Right. It and thank you for your, you know, your advocacy and for speaking out and for being there and saving kids lives. Yeah. I mean, I've seen too many deaths, um, in both in my job at church and in my job at state, right? Uh, too many deaths, too many deaths. Okay, wow. Again, a little bit of a channel change here, but I couldn't help but notice when I was doing my homework that you did win a Bicycling Leadership Award.

Okay, so as a bunch of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, there's a long list of things you got. I mean, Rosie O'Donnell has given you awards. Okay. Yeah. That was the P flag award for 2012 for the trans rights. She was in town. She presented it was good. So the bicycle in leadership award and it was from the share the road cycling coalition. So it was a one meter rule that I fought for. Um, and that we kind of got the liberals. I think, yeah, we did sort of pass there were some caveats and stuff It's not being enforced either but That was just to keep cyclists safe on the roads You know that you you should have where possible have a meter between you and the cyclists next to you

It of course in look out in the snow snow bound roads now kind of not possible But I mean wherever possible we could go you were 100% right, because I didn't stop riding and there were unrideable, you know, separated bike lanes for days and days and days. But I'm happy to report Mother Nature, I guess they finally got to plowing and Mother Nature helped out quite a bit and you can finally, you know, I got my eight year old bike and these things so you can get out there and you can bike. But that one meter rule, very good if, and I've been telling my, I taught my kids this, but if you don't feel you have the meter, take the lane. Yeah. Like I, I take that lane and they,

they yell at me, they call me nasty names. They curse me out and I just smile and keep going here. Yeah. It's yeah. It's your right. Yeah. It's my right. Damn it. Sherry, DeNovo. Wow. Okay. Here. So in the, in the, honestly, Yeah. It's my right, damn it. Sherry Denova. Wow. Okay. Here. So in the, in the, honestly, I could talk to you forever, but in the final moments, is there anything else? Obviously you're, you're doing important work with the, uh, LGBTQ plus community and you

continued success there, but is there anything else on your mind as you were making your way to, to try to make your try to make a debut? Well, a couple of shout outs, I think. Shout out the crazy. Yeah. One of the, one of the things I won recently was one of the 52 women that in Toronto, they've changed Toronto. And this is throughout history.

And there's only 15 of us left alive. So the Toronto Museum is having an exhibit about us. And there was all sorts of stuff that happened last year about this. So that's coming up at the Toronto Museum. Well, that's amazing. Congrats. So check that out. And only 15 are actually alive. Yeah.

Okay, I want you to name the other 14 right now. Oh my, yeah. And then the other thing is the Day of Pink. I mean, I'm talking about Saving Kids Lives. This is a fantastic queer organization across Canada that does, runs programs, you know, sort of queer positive programs in schools. And so I love to support them in there.

Having a gala on April 9th. So buy your tickets, folks. It's a great party. It's down in the Distillery District. So support them. And yeah, and these are local happenings, which I think people should know about. Okay, Rosie Gray Teo is a Wikipedia editor who's listening very closely to us, so I have a very pointed question. You need to confirm or deny this, okay? Did you help smuggle LSD into Canada from California in hollowed out Bibles? I did indeed when I was 15 years old. And LSD, by the way, was not illegal then.

It was under the Food and Drug Act. Okay. That's an important distinction there. But I think the idea- It was still smuggling, because I didn't pay duty on it And it wasn't declared. Yeah. Well, this is how you become the radical reverend, right? You got to do it inside hollowed out Bible. Hey me my political opponents use it first time I ran

You know, there's a drug dealer and like it was a 15 year old street kid I took I always tell the story and I say there's two things you can do as a street kid and a 15 year old girl Working is not one of them because you're 15 So I chose I think the safer route quite frankly can do as a street kid and a 15 year old girl. Working is not one of them because you're 15. So I chose I think the safer route, quite frankly. Absolutely. As you know, your work with the church, have you noticed a decline in attendance lately? Like what's going on? How healthy is the United Church in 2025? I can tell you that at Trinity St. Paul's, my swan song service, Christmas Eve we had almost 700 people there. So, I can tell, and our growing edge were 20-somethings. So, I'd say,

you know, find a church that speaks to you and they are there. And there are some real success stories out there. I did, I just want to let the listenership know, I got a fun fact from the official Toronto historian of the Toronto Mic'd podcast, that's Jeremy Hopkins, and he says that the, okay, the St. Paul's United Church was originally a Methodist church and in 1889, it was designed by Henry Langley and Edmund Burke in its heritage building and it's very impressive. So Jeremy Hopkins just wants you to know, he thinks the St. Paul's United Church is a great architectural specimen.

Trinity St. Paul's, it's amalgam now. But yeah, Lester Pearson used to sing in the choir. Like it was the church for many, many years back in the heyday of Christendom in this country. So yeah. Radical Reverend Sherry DeNovo, you're now an FOTM. That means friend of Toronto miked. You're welcome back here anytime.

I'm really honoured I had a chance to chat you up for over an hour. Thank you for this. Oh, it's been a blast. Thank you for having me. Now, if you want that lasagna, you've got to take a photo with me by Toronto Tree after this. So before you escape, you've got to take that photo with me. No problemo.

But was this good for you? Did you enjoy the experience? It was a lot of fun. A lot of fun. Yeah. Okay, good. Let Rosie O'Donnell know, but I don't know if I am eligible for an award, but I'm definitely an ally without a doubt here. So maybe Rosie's got another award for me. We'll see. Yeah. Thanks for that. And that brings us to the end of our 1642nd show. Where would we best follow The Radical Reverend on social media? Oh, I'm on X, I'm on Blue Sky, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Insta, so any of those places. Um, and yeah, so there's that. And then of course, it's my, my radio show and that's, uh, on CIUT.

And so you can find me there under the radical reverend and yeah, that's, I'm everywhere. I'm easy to find. You talk to me. Well, I talk to you on X and, uh, it's the only reason I really go check my DMs anymore, cause I might have a message from the radical reverend, but I got to say it's greasy there now, like I do not enjoy my ex experience.

No, I mean, well, yeah, I mean, it's an evil overlord, but then I also, you know, I like really, you know, Zuckerberg, I mean, they like pick your evil overlords, I guess at this point, I mean, I. Pick your billionaire. Exactly. Exactly.

I say use the master's tools. Use it against them. Go to torontomic.com for all your Toronto Mic needs. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma Pasta. We got a lasagna for the Radical Reverend here. That's recyclemyelectronics.ca.

That's Building TorontoMyElectronics.ca. That's Building Toronto Skyline. And of course, Ridley Funeral Home. See you all Monday when Ed the sock will be in the basement. Although I don't know at this moment if it's going to be Ed or Steve Kirzner. Tune in to find out. See you all then. So I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

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