Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Tim Cherry: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1916

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

On this 1916th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Tim Cherry about his father Don Cherry, the loss of his sister Cindy Cherry, Coach's Corner with Ron MacLean, Poppygate, Don Cherry's Rock'em Sock'em Hockey, Grapevine, Blue and so much more.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, Tim Cherry here, son of the famous Don Cherry, and I'm here on my debut with Open Mike to talk about dad, other things, and my sister Cindy's book, The Don Cherry Story. You called this open mic. That's Bullard's show. Oh, sorry about that. You know what? It's an honor.

That was a big national show. That's an honor. Yes. Welcome to episode 1,916. 1916. That's the year this house was built. That's a fun fact. Of Toronto Mike, an award-winning podcast,

proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at greatlakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta. entries from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palmapasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christy Pits this summer.

No, ticket required. Fusion Corpso, Nick Iienes. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle MyElectronics.ca.cometing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921.

Joining me today, making his Toronto Mike debut, it is indeed Tim Cherry. Welcome to Toronto Mike Tim. Thanks very much for having me. Sorry about that mixed up at the start. You know, Open Mike. Open Mike was a big deal in this country for a long time.

Mike Bullard no longer with us. Were you friends with Mike Bullard? I met him once or twice, and a funny story with that was, remember Conan O'Brien came up. I went to see one of the recordings with Ron James and Stomp and Tom Connors and Adam Sandler. I was there for one. Right. So the people for Conan O'Brien, they kept asking Dad to go on, and Dad really didn't know who Conan O'Brien was. He didn't watch late night.

So Dad was telling me, I asked me, goes, who is he? He said, oh, he's a late-night guy. So he's kind of like a Johnny Carson, but a modern Johnny. And then Mike Bullard called, his people called and said, would he, Dad, come on? And I said, you know, you should go on, Dad. Support the Canadian version, you know, and help him out. So Dad went on, and we went down to the Masonic Template. Yeah, 888 Youngstreet.

Right. So Dad went down and he did this stuff, did the show, and it was a good show and all that. And then I remember Mike about, you know, 20 years later, he was doing, it was on. He had his radio show. 10-10. He used talk 10-10. And he started giving Dad a hard time. And I said, there you go.

You know, dad goes down, does the show for him. I'd be a nice guy. And he turns around and starts stabbing him in the back a little bit. Well, listen, I can relate because your father, we're going to talk about, he's in good company because I also was attacked by Bullard. Like, I had a bad experience of Mike Bullard. So hearing him turn on your father does not surprise me in the least. Yeah. Again, you know, but it, you know, when you're in the show business world,

you kind of, like, and I'm not, but dad was and just kind of on the peripheral I'm watching it. It's, it's sometimes sad to see that. Yeah, it's disappointing. Like, you know, your dad could have gone on Conan O'Brien, which was a bigger show, let's be honest. And he could have done that, but he said, no, I'm going to support a homegrown product. I'm going to support a local guy, Mike Bullard. But then where does that get you, right? Where's the, where's the loyalty, right, Tim?

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, dad had a pretty thick skin, so it didn't bother him. Well, he needed it. Yeah, I think he, you know, it was... He still needs it. Yeah, yeah. I think he got it, you know, he got that through playing hockey, right? You know, when you're a hockey player and you're reading stuff in the paper about yourself

and then coaching the Bruins and stuff like that. So he got his thick skin slowly by playing coaching and then, of course, going on Coach's Corner. And I think there's a misconception out there amongst the youngstststs. is that Don Cherry had a lengthy NHL career. Like, I feel that out there. And when you blow people's minds and, you know, he played one game in the NHL, right? Yeah, he played one game for the Boston Bruins.

And, but he played 18 years in the minors. So he kind of slugged it out all over North America and dragged my sister, Cindy, all around, and my mom all around. And, you know, a typical, this is kind of a typical story with dad, was that he got called up. He was playing for her. She got called up, played.

at the Montreal Forum and a playoff game played very well. And the Bruins came to him. And it was different back then where you signed a contract with the Bruins. They owned you until they didn't want you anymore and they let you go. So it wasn't like, you know, you signed a five-year contract and you're a free agent. Like they basically owned you, you know, until the end of time. So they told them after the game, they said, you know, you really played well. You had a great year in Hershey.

We, you know, get in shape. We're really looking for what we have plans for you. and we don't want you to play baseball. But dad was a big baseball fan. And his dad's, my grandfather, who I actually never met, he passed away before I was born, was a really good baseball player. And dad played baseball and just like they told him not to, and he broke his collarbone, and wasn't ready for the training camp, and they left him in Hershey and played the next 18 years in the minors.

But he wanted to play baseball. Like there's something holistic and beautiful about that. He's like, no, I want to play baseball. Yeah. You can't tell me I can't play baseball. I love baseball, even though it cost him dearly, professionally. Yeah. But I always say to that, we always talk to you get these philosophical things, but if that didn't happen, he wouldn't have been on Coach's Corner, right? Oh my God. Tim, I'm so glad you're here. There's so much ground I want to cover, but before we get any further, I want to offer you my sincere condolences on the loss of your sister, Cindy. I'm so sorry, man. Yeah, thanks. You know, it's, it was a real shock to us.

And, you know, it was kind of out of the blue. And, you know, you never get over things like that, right? You just kind of learn, like, how to live with it. And Cindy and I had a kind of a special relationship when I was 13 years old. My kidneys failed. And Cindy, and she would have been 18, she donated her kidney to me. Wow. So we were in Living, my dad was coaching the Bruins at the time.

So I always say by the grace of God and Cindy is the only reason I'm here. That is the most selfless act I can think of. Yeah. And, you know, it's nowadays, if you look at the advancement in medical technology, the person donating the kidney, it's not that bad. It's actually liposcopic surgery. With Cindy, it was like they had to cut her from stem to stern. They'd take out two short ribs.

I mean, she was in more pain. than I was. So it really was a selfless act. And again, you know, as I say, there's a lot of times I kind of look back when I'm like to travel and, you know, I'm in this place that I really, really, you know, I'm enjoying. I'm saying if it wasn't for my sister's, you know, selfless act of giving her, her giving one of my kidney, or her giving her one of my kidney to me. Yeah.

You know, I wouldn't be here. And she went on to work with the kidney. It's a tough word to say, right? You want to, because it's Cindy and kidney. Okay. So the kidney foundation of Canada. Yeah. Like she was championing awareness and support for those who have kidney disease.

Yeah, yeah. She was really big into living donations because Canada really does not do well in transplant and donations and stuff. It's not a number we should be proud of. I think we're 13th in the developed world or something like that. And then she really, she kind of hooked up with the Broulet family and the tragic humble Bronco accident. Right. And helped raise a lot of awareness.

Did a lot of work out West surprisingly. She got hooked up with the Western Hockey League and did a lot of stuff. So she championed, you know, the donating in Chanson. Because she, you know, she went on to have a son and, and lived a fairly normal life until, unfortunately, she passed away. Well, I don't want to pry for any private information, but she passed away at 67. Suddenly, are you able to reveal what took Cindy from us?

Yeah, it was just, it was like a coronary. Like a heart attack. Heart attack, you know? Jeez. Yeah, and it was really tough. Like, it was tough because the sense of we were doing the podcast back then still. Right. We would do it Sunday mornings in my kitchen.

And so Cindy said, I'm going down to visit some friends in Kingston on Friday, so I'm not going to do the podcast. So we said, okay, so, you know, I don't even remember kind of the last time I said goodbye to her or what I said to her. I just said, all right, we'll see you later. And then I got a text from my nephew Dell Sunday night saying Cindy's in the emergency room. She's not feeling good. and it was kind of like we thought it might have been a flu,

maybe it might have been, you know, a COVID or something like that. She wasn't feeling good. And then, you know, within an hour later, he texted me and said, you better get down here. And 45 minutes later, I got to the hospital and she had already passed. Yeah, I'm so sorry. That's awful. I had a, you're here because I got a lovely email from Dell, so son of Cindy.

And I do want to quickly shout this out because we're going to have a nice chat. I got some audio loaded up and some questions for you. And, but I have my hand. So two books I have in my hand. I love this photo on the cover of part two. So the Dawn Cherry story was written by Cindy Cherry. That's the first one. And now there's the Dawn Cherry story part two.

Also written by Cindy. Yeah. Which is, yeah, Cindy Cherry. So I want to just make sure the listenership knows these books, they're now available. This second part is now available as well. Right. On Amazon. So Cindy wrote those, you know, during COVID, actually.

Right. You know, we all had time on our hands. And I told Cindy, I said, you know, you should write a book. I said, you know, dad's written a few books. They said, you should write one on a different perspective. First of all, you know, a female perspective in sports, living in kind of a world of sports. And then, you know, and her perspective on dad's life. So the first book was in, so when she finished it, the publishing company says, it's too big.

It's like, you've got to cut this in two parts. So the first part, I said, Dad looks like Thomas Shelby and Piki Blinders. That's the hat. That's more about Poppy Gate and Dad's Coach's Corner career and later in our lives. And then the second book was more about growing up with Dad and Dad as a father and kind of Cindy traveling around the North American Hockey League's, you know, American Hockey League and Western League, but Dad and Mom. And the second book has a lot more stories about my mom.

So I think for women would enjoy reading it because it's a bit, again, a different perspective of what it was like to live in that world as a daughter and as a wife of a coach and a player. Okay, and we should also shout out Don Cherry's pet rescue. Right, right. So Cindy was, Cindy's big first love was animals. And she was, she had so many jobs as animals. worked in at a rockingham waistweight in the horse track she was a hot walker with the horses she worked in vet clinics she ended up starting a groommobile service was one of the first ones in in Ontario to do that back in the 80s and had a big love for animals and so did that we always

had animals we always had pets dogs and i'm going to ask you about a certain pet in a moment actually and so cindy um you know so cindy wanted to start our uh park rescue foundation and And it's a little different in the sense of it helps people who have their own pet rescue and are looking to get money or donations. So she's the one that maybe has some connections with, you know, food companies or donators that can help out some of the smaller pet rescue foundations. Beautiful. Now, you look so much like your father.

When I saw you walking, you had Tim Horton's coffee and you were walking down the driveway. I'm like, holy smokes, because this is the first time we've ever met. So, A, why did it take us so long to meet? And, geez, what's it like walking around and people look at you? They do the second glance. And they go, is that Don Cherry? Well, I think what are the, I don't know, the lot of people say to me, are you Don's brother? I go, that's an insult.

I go, well, either dad's really young looking at 92 or I'm pretty old looking at 63. And, you know, he always looked great for his age, especially when he was on our television screens every week. Well, he worked at it. Like, he took saunas every day. He ate well. You know, he always, he's a big thing with sardines. He heard sardines were good. He always have sardines for lunch, sardines.

I'm taking notes over here, Tim. Yeah. So, and as I say, he used to lift weights right up until, you know, he was in the 70s. He would lift weights for a little bit, row. He used to row every day. Wow. And so he was always into fitness and stuff. He always looked good.

But yeah, when they say, are you done? Your brother? Well, you know, to be concerned when they ask, are you Don's older brother? Yeah. You're in big trouble there. So I need to ask you the big question. I've been wondering since we booked this.

How is your father doing? Oh, he's doing pretty good. As I say, 92 years old, a little bit slower now and everything, but he was over watching, what was the game five last night of the Stanley? Carolina won, yeah. So he was watching that. And I said, what do you think, Dad? He goes, he goes, it was probably halfway through the first period.

he says Vegas isn't going to win another game in the series. Oh. Okay, so I don't have to worry about Mitch Marner being... Well, I'm hoping he wins the Calder. I would love to see him win the... So can I... Let me ask you as a hockey, quick hockey. And I have to ask you about a particular dog, and then we're going to get really into it now.

But how do we explain the fact that Mitch Marner had so many kicks at the can, if you will, with the Toronto Maple Leafs? Big playoff, must-win playoff games. And he was seemingly... seemingly invisible on the ice. I'm a leaf fan. I watch very closely.

He's not alone in that disappearance act, but how does he disappear when the chips are down for the Leafs? But meanwhile, he excels for Vegas in these huge playoff games. Like, how does that work? Well, first of all, when I scouted for the Ontario Hockey League, I did that for 17 years. Mitch Munner was always doubted. even when he was playing for the

Don Mills Flyers and he was young he was 15 and he was small and people just didn't just didn't see see it in them and then the Mark Hunter's got him and London got him and he what back to back Memorial Cup things I truly believe it's not Marner

and I think it's the organization I just think that Vegas is an organization that they're ruthless they win you know March one, the Khan Smyth, and the next year you wouldn't have some playing good, they got rid of them.

Right. I think they just have this, this, you know, this, it comes from the top down. I hate to say it. And I just think that the lease have been a dumpster fire for so long and the management.

And I just don't understand the things that the management does. And I think the big difference is because you have a corporation running it as opposed to in Vegas. You have a single guy running it. And, although we had a single guy running it, and that was a bigger dumpster fire.

Yeah. Yeah, well, I know with Ballard. But I just do, I just, I don't, like when dad coached the Bruins, he had players that would hold, the players would hold each other accountable. If they were, if there was a guy not pulling his way, Terry O'Reilly, who was their kind of straw and Bobby Schmots or Wayne Cashman, those guys would go over to him and say something to him. And I just don't think the Leafs have that.

And I think that Vegas does. I think if you're not putting out, Stone's going to go over and say something to you. And I just don't think they have that player. I don't think they have that general manager. I think hiring Dubus was a huge mistake. And I think it's the environment in general than just the individual player. All right. Well, your dad says Vegas isn't going to win another game.

So it looks like what Jordan Stoll. I think he's got five goals, a goal in every game so far. Yeah, which is pretty incredible there. So look for him. Okay, so we'll be tuned in there. But we will miss. I will tell you right now. And again, we're going to get into it because it is a bit, just controversy, and I got the clip.

We're going to get into it right now. Now we begin. Should I be recording this, Tim? Just kidding. But, I mean, I have to say I miss Coach's Corner with your father during the intermission. I went for some, and again, I will get into it, you know, warts and all. But it was entertaining and I was there to watch. And now I don't watch any intermission.

Like I watch the game and then I go do something else or get on the laptop and do some work or something. And then I come back for puck drop. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, I think Dad and Ron, I think one of the reasons was because it was so unique in sports. Wait, hold that thought. I'm going to play this.

I have all this audio. I don't want to waste it. So let's get in the mood here. Let's get in the mood here. Choose Corner with Ron McPain and Don Cherry. Brought to you by Moor's Clothing for Men Well made Well priced

Well dressed Man I got a lot of questions for you You know the story I think you know the story that I was Co-hosting a show of Mark Hebscher Yeah And this is before Poppy Gate Because we'll get to Poppy Gate

But I was telling Mark We spent a lot of time together We were recording two episodes a week for a while I don't know if you ever heard Hebsy on sports But you know Hebsy gives it man He delivers He's great

But I just said to him You know I think my most highly sought guest was I want to have a chat with Don Cherry. I said, Don doesn't have to come to the basement here. I said, I'll, I'll bike my gear to Mississauga or whatever he wants and we'll do it wherever he wants. And then Mark Hebescher told me, you need to write him a snail mail. This was the piece of advice from Hebsy. He says, Don Cherry is an old school guy. You write him and I, so he gives me a mailing address for Don

Don Cherry. I wrote, okay, I'm using my pen writing expression here. I wrote a letter to Don explain what I was up to here, what I wanted to do, how many years, how many decades I spent watching him on Coach's Corner. And your father, to his credit, he called me. My phone rings. It's an unknown name, unknown number. I answer it. There's the unmistakable voice of Don Cherry on the other line explaining, thank you for the invite, but he said he felt it would be a, he told me he thought it would be a conflict with the work he was doing on the fan 590 with grapevine. Which one was it? Line.

Grape line with Brian Williams. Yeah, with Brian Williams time right now in Toronto, 10.8 a.m. Anyway, lovely call from Don Cherry, but I wrote him a piece of snail mail. Yeah. Oh, yeah, Dad's old school. He never had a, never had a cell phone. You know, barely had an answering machine still. So, yeah, he's like that.

But dad was always, he was always very good at trying to get back to people. People wrote them, he tried to either call back or write back. I mean, living proof. Like, he didn't have to pick up the phone and call me and tell me, thank you for the letter, but I'm politely declining. Like, I thought it was really classy of him. Yeah, well, that's, I think that's his mom's, and dad's influence. That's the way he was brought up, right?

And then dad never, he was always good about not taking his fans at, like, for kind of like, you know, oh yeah, well, you know, I'm popular now and all that. He always was very, you know, thankful that he had these types of fans that would write him and stuff. And his big thing was when they stop writing me, that's when I'm in trouble. And so he felt that he would spend hours every day

signing stuff or writing a letter back. And again, I think that was his mom and dad's influence on him. So please give me what you can here. Again, people need to pick up the Sydney. I keep saying Sydney. That's like a vocal tick or something. Cindy, Cindy Cherry books on the Don Cherry story. Pick these up and, you know, dive in deep.

But what do you know about Don, your father, when, you know, the Dave Hodge incident happens with the pen flip? And then I had Ron McLean on the show. We'll get back to Ron, too. But where Ron talked about how, you know, somebody said your meal ticket basically is, you know, cozy up with Don and make that happen. and then we get Coach's Corner for how many years. Like, what can you tell me about the Dave Hodge experience for your father versus Ron McLean? Well, I think, first of all, dad wasn't very polished with Dave Hodge, right? Dad was still, you know, he was still, even when he started with Dave Hodge, dad was still wondering if he's going to get back into coaching.

So, and he had met Ralph Malambi. I'll tell you a story how Ralph Maliby, who was the executive producer of Hockey Canada, and he's kind of like the godfather of sports. Father of Scott. Yeah, Father Scott Malenby, executive producer without the Olympics. So how Ralph and Dad kind of got equated was the Stanley, I guess it was the semifinals in 79, and there was a big fight, Stan Jonathan versus Pierre Bouchard, and Stan Jonathan being the Boston Bruem was in the gardens and really gave it to

Bouchard. There was a lot of blood and it was a fight. And what happened was that TV 38, which was the Boston, where we were watching in Boston, they were just picking up the Hockey Night and Canada feed. And TV 38, when they were normally broadcasting the Games of Bruins, they would show replays of the fight. And they, on Hockey Night and Canada didn't, Ralph wouldn't show replays of the fight. So all of a sudden there was this controversy that Hockey Nett and Canada, didn't show the replay of the fight because it was a Bruin beaten up a Montreal guy.

Right. And it was a big story in Boston. And it was on the newspaper. So, and then Dad kind of used that to get the Bruins. They're against us, you know, us against the world. So there was a fight between Bobby Schmots and, I think, Riseborough or Mario Trombly, actually. And Mario Trombly punched, got a good shot in and cut Bobby Schmots. So while the penalties are.

being called. Dad, this was in the old Montreal Forum, ran down the hallway and ran into the green room where Ralph was and said, you didn't show Bushard's fight, stand kicking Bushard's ass. You better not show this, or there's going to be trouble. Melobey

said, shouldn't you be behind the bench? Don't worry about behind the bench? They know what they're doing, and he ran back. So, Ralph said, that's the kind of passion we need on TV. And so when Dad was still not knowing if he was going to coach, he was on Coach's Corner. So, Dave Hodge was,

dad wasn't very polished. And I don't think Dave liked dad that. I wouldn't say he didn't like him, but he wanted somebody a little bit more professional. Well, if I may interject here,

because I've had so many conversations with Dave Hodge about this, and there was even a reporter's live event at Paradise Theater that I was producing, and you can find it in the Toronto Miked Feed. But he tells a story about your father saying, Patty Roy,

Patty Roy, and Dave confronting your dad and saying, If we're going to speak of him, we'll call him Patrick Waugh. So Dave was like, no, proper journalist. He's like, this is offensive to French Canadians to call him Patty Roy. And your dad basically not, it's Patty Roy, Patty Roy, Patty Roy, Patty Roy. And it really did sound like Dave wasn't going to have any of the Don Cherry. I'm going to call it schick, but that Patty Roy activity.

Right, I think so. I think, as I say, he wanted, he would rather have had a more journalistic type of person on. There are more, if you want to say intellectual, if you want to... Well, he wasn't going to have Patty Roy. That's for sure. Dave Hodge wasn't going to play that game. Right. So I think that that was the conflict.

And quite frankly, I think that if Dave Hodge stayed on and didn't flip his pen, that I don't know how long dad's career would have been. So I think they just would have been budding heads so much that at one point, Ralph would have had to make a decision, right? Right. I think that wasn't going to work. That team was not going to work. No, no, there wasn't the chemistry.

And then when Ron came, it kind of, it's from the start of the coach's corner with Ron to towards the end, it was, they kind of got into a rhythm with each other. And I think part of the thing that why it worked with that and Ron was because they were so all over the place. Like, you know, they could be talking about what was going on in the game or something that happened last week, or they could be talking, showing pictures of a minor hockey game going on. And so I think that that's why I think people liked it because you never knew it was going on,

you know, not knocking what they're doing today, but it's strictly about the game and it's strictly about the first period. Yeah, it's very much about the game where it's like it's the facts, but less of the flavor. Yeah. And I think that Dad and Ron could go and show, like they, you know,

they would have shown them the minor, the American Hockey League game that was going on and and and or they would have shown something that was going out west of a minor sport or something like that and i think that that's what people like because and and the other thing too and i think people think i'm a little bit crazy for saying this but i'll tell you if you're crazy i think that when when dad and and dave hodge were doing it there was two cameras and dad was always doing the looking at the wrong camera so and you look pretty stupid when you do that right you do not look good on camera so dad went to ralph he says ralph can i just have one camera i don't

understand. I can't, I'm always looking at the wrong camera. So Ralph said, yeah, just look at the one camera talking to the one camera. And I think eventually what happened was dad and Ron were talking directly to the audience, whereas now they're talking to each other and you're kind of eavesdropping on the, on the conversation. And where dad and Ron were talking, it was directly to the people talking to directly to the audience. And I think that made a big difference. I think there kind of became that connection. And also, of course, Ron McLean would tolerate without correcting Patty Roy.

Yeah. Yeah, he was just like, yeah, well, that's done, whatever, right? That type of thing. And that's Don, Dawn, almost, I'm not suggesting your dad puts on a mask when he's on Coach's Corner, but everybody tends to amp up or, you know, not play a character of some sort, some kind of persona when the red light is on. Like, I always, as I loved it until I realized, oh, that is offensive to French Canadians. Yeah.

Like, you know, this country is a bilingual nation, and we got a, the French candidate is very important to this country. And meanwhile, by not calling him Patrick Waugh, I'm trying hard. My daughter lives in Montreal now. I'm working on my accent, okay? And calling him Patty Roy. That is offensive.

So I wonder, I wonder if your dad ever considered maybe calling the French players by their proper name. Well, he screwed up everybody's name. Biaska's name, everybody's name. That is true. That is true. It was sort of, uh, sort of, uh, and you know what?

That's not an act. And I do it. I can't say, Cindy. I keep saying Sydney, so I'm no better than darn. Yeah. Well, I mean, and that's, you know, that was dad's. And then, you know, so, but dad did pay a price for that because, you know, okay, he's anti-French.

And then when they were talking about visors of all things, dad said, you know, this is when they were going to grandfather it in. And he says, well, they're going to grandfather it in. He goes, it's mostly French guys and Europeans. And they had the language police after him for saying French guys. and you look and you go, well, I think that's probably just a buildup of a lot of things that, why they're going after them, not specifically that,

because if you look at, statistically, that he was correct, it was just maybe not nice calling them French guys, you know, so. Interesting. And it's funny only because that Conan O'Brien episode I told you about, too bad I couldn't see your dad there, but we had Stomp and Tom and we had Ron James, who I've become friends with, and it was Adam Sandler, who was not Canadian,

everybody so they imported an American Star which I did not appreciate but they did that anyways but there was a triumph the comic insult dog do you remember this oh yeah yeah with the cigar yeah so he went and he went off on French Canadians and it got uh it got the show in a lot of trouble from the same I guess the same CRTC wherever's you know looking at whether it's against the the French Canadians etc etc so that was a huge controversy at the time I want to know about Ron McLean and your father's relationship when the red light's not on? Because I've heard so many stories from couples that were great. I mean, Tom Cheek and Jerry Howarth, for example, or Siskel and Ebert.

These are dynamic duos when the red light is on, and then you find out when the red lights are, Anne Ruskowski and Gord Martin. No, okay, that's been told on this show. You've got to hear that episode. But when the red light's off, they're just, maybe they're just civil to each other, or they don't hang or whatever. What was the relationship like in their personal lives? Ron McLean and Don Cherry.

Well, they are pretty much total opposites, right? Like political spectrum and stuff like that. Yeah. Basically, after they said, okay, you know, so-and-so, you know, Montreal's won the Stanley Cup, you know, we'll see you next year. Dad and Ron might go out and have a dinner, but they ran in different circles. Ron would go on vacation.

Ron used to like to sail. Dad liked to go to the Wolf Island or he walked to his place now in Moomer. Right. And they would talk a little bit. but I think the one thing that they were kind of very conscious of, and again, I think this is coming from Ralph Malenby. Ralph Malenby's last, when he left,

his last advice to dad was don't get professional. And that means don't get polished. Right, yeah. And dad and Ron were always worried that if they were hanging around each other too much, that it would all of a sudden become a little bit polished, a little bit of too much of an act. So they didn't really see each other that much. They would call each other on the Saturday morning to know what they were going to talk about.

Kathy Broderick, who was the executive producer, would say this is some of the clips that she picked. And they were, as they say, they were, you know, they were friendly. They would chit-chat. And a lot of times, Ron would come over to my house and we would do, you know, get my iPhone out. And Dad and Ron would do a little thing for some charitable work or something like that. But I think that they didn't run around in the same circles. And I think, and they kind of tended to nurture that because, again, they don't want to get too kind of professional, too slick. But then they used to travel a lot in the playoffs together.

They don't now. They don't travel as much as they used to. But in Hockey Inn Canada. Yeah, I think they just stay in Toronto. Yeah. But Dad and Ron, after the first round, used to leave, right? Right. And used to go on the road.

So they would, you know, when they were on the road, they would go out, you know, they would always go to the morning practice together. Dad would always get dressed up, go to the morning practice. Then they would go have lunch, and then afterwards they'd either go out and have beers or they'd go over to Dad's room and have beers and watch a movie or watch a ballgame or something like that. So they were, I think they were, you know, I think they were friends. They would help each other. They would help each other out with things. If Cindy needed something for a pet rescue, Ron would be there to sign autographs. And if Ron needed something,

Dad would be right there to help him out. All right, perfect segue, because we are going to, I want to tell the listeners, I'll get to Poppy Gate, okay, but I have some other things on my mind here. One is that I had Gare Joyce on the show because Gare Joyce wrote a long-form piece. I like long-form stuff.

There's not enough of it out there, but Gare is kind of the master at this. But for the Kingston Whig Standard, he wrote a piece about the Wolf Island. You mentioned Wolf Island in this cottage, I suppose? Yeah, it was a cottage. It wasn't believe, me, it was not a home, it was a cottage.

So he wrote this long-form piece about the cottage and why it was sold, and this all tied into the 2019 season, and Ron McLean revealed some things to Gare Joyce that made it to print in this conversation and basically talked about how sick your father was at the end of the 2019 season, and then he talks about this call from Gary Bettman that Ron received to say that your father, was in the hospital in Boston.

He was so sick. And I'm just curious. But he wasn't. Continue. We need to hear from me. You're the son of dawn, for goodness sakes. Yeah. So was Ron, Ron reports this to Gare.

Gere writes the story. Yeah. A, I'm guessing, what did you think of the story? What did your father think of the story? And what was wrong about the story? Well, I think that, like, I don't, dad was sick. He was, and when he got back to,

Toronto, he did, he was, he did say he had pneumonia. But he, I thought, did dad go to Boston? Was he in the hospital? And so I called Kathy Broderick. I said, Kathy, was dad in the hospital in Boston? She said, no, he went back to his hotel room, but he wasn't in the hospital. So he didn't go, he wasn't in the hospital. But he was, he was pretty sick. Dad always got sick to him. But he was, there's no hospital stay. No. And there's no call from Ron to Bobby Orr to help arrange this medical treatment.

and what's Gary Betman talking about? Is Ron... I don't know. Do you want to hear it? I listen to it. No, I have... This is exclusive audio of Ron McLean talking to Gare Joyce and what this article was based on.

Do you want to hear a little bit of it? Sure. Okay, so let me... And then we'll talk about the reaction from the Cherry family here. But this is Ron to Gere. Travel was buckling toward the end. He had that really bad...

I don't know if you know. He had a bad pneumonia in the Boston scene. Lewis series in 2019. So did I. I ended up in, I ended up in hospital so did he. So did he.

So there you go. So you both, whatever we came across, you both experienced, isn't that weird? That is crazy. I didn't know that. He,

he was shaking, I got to Boston, and this is another kind of telling tales of a school now, but we finally get to Boston. We always flew through a different city each time. One time at Washington,

and I screwed up and we missed the flight, the connection. It was my fault. I misread the information because, as you know, I was sort of a tour operator. Anyway, we got stuck overnight in Washington. But this particular trek was St. Louis through Detroit and on to Boston. And Don was shaking, like out of control shaking on the flight. He could barely breathe. He was shaking like a leaf.

So we get to Boston, and I immediately phone Bobby Orr. And I said, Bobby, I need help here. You either get Don into one of the hospitals in Boston or have a team doctor come to see him here at the hotel. But I'm really concerned. And Bobby says, well, I'm in Florida right now, but in the morning I will make sure that a doctor comes to see Dawn. I said, that's great. And then Bobby says, this is so typical of those two. Ron, don't you say a word about this.

Don't let anybody know that Don is suffering from pneumonia. And that's definitely how they operated. you know they were no we no vulnerability no weakness shown and i just thought that was great too i knew grapes had kind of gotten out a little bit from he had it built in but he got a lot of that from bobbyor yeah i had no idea about that well so you i mean he was in the i got a call gare so grapes wouldn't tell me things um you know we we when rose died don didn't tell me until the day before. He finally in Windsor, I had to get him to the Windsor airport and get him home.

But yeah, he kept all that. I would see him. It was the weirdest thing. We were in Colorado doing the playoffs. And I would see Don going for these long walks. I'd look out my hotel room window and there was grapes walking solitary, you know, like an empty boulevard. And I wondered what's bugging him. Like, why is he?

And I knew something was up, but I didn't know that Rose was in the final throws of her battle. And, yeah, he kept, so anyway, I get a call out of the clear blue. The playoffs have ended, you know, and Don and I don't even have our post-ritual beers. He's so sick. So I go back to my room for the first time that I could remember and just had a couple beers by myself in the room. Weird. And then I get a call from Gary Bettman. And, you know, he and I are like, pick your poison.

But so for Gary to pick up the phone phone me, it was a surprise. And he says, how's Don? I says, he's good, why? He says, well, he's in hospital. I said he is, and that's how I found out. Yeah, so that was kind of a shocker. So many questions, Tim. But what are your thoughts listening to that?

That's never been shared because Gare wrote the piece, which personally, I like the piece. I thought it was a very interesting piece. Got to know your father better. Very interesting. Two thoughts. One is Ron should not be disclosing personal health information of your father. Yeah, that wasn't nice.

And Ron talked to Dad after that. So they're good? They talked about it, yeah. I mean, they're not, you know, their relationship's not the same, but, you know, Ron and I text a couple months, a couple weeks ago. Like, I don't, like, I don't, maybe a doctor went to dad's, like, the Bruins doctor went to dad in his room, but I asked Kathy Broderick if dad went to the hospital. She says, I don't know.

She says unless he went and she didn't know And then when dad got home He did go into the hospital So maybe Ron was mistaken And then it got out That dad was in the hospital I think he was at the credit I think he was at the Credit Valley Hospital

But I know he was He was pretty sick in that series In the St. Louis Boston series Does this spark this need To sell the Wolf Island cottage? No you know That is what the the article sort of suggests.

Yeah. It's like an exit strategy. No. The reason he sold it was he just, it was twofold was driving down the 401. The traffic is just, is awful. So basically what would happen would be they'd have to get up at like four o'clock in the morning or five o'clock in the morning, drive down. And if you miss the ferry, because you have to catch your ferry to Wolf Island.

And if the ferry, if you miss the ferry for whatever reason, instead of a three hour now, it's like a five hours to get there. And if you have a medical emergency on Wolf Island, I guess what do they do? They send a helicopter? No, they get to ferry it and they stop the ferry it. It's not a good place to be in autumn of your years. Yeah, no, but I think the big reason why they sold it was just,

the main reason was the drive was just awful. In fact, I was just down in Kingston and, you know, you take your life in your hands with the trucks going down there. now was the main thing and you know a cottage you need a little bit of repair and stuff like that and then dad and louva bought a place up in momer which is like just kind of you go up highway 10 so it turns into a dirt road

so it's like kind of near shellburn right and so it's only like maybe an hour or an hour and a half drive and you know you're driving up highway 10 as opposed to the 4401 so that was the main reason why you go and and you know when you it's the wolf like it's a lot of that a cottage on Wolf Islands on a point on the St. Lawrence River is a lot of work, right?

The winters are really rough and you know, you've got to constantly fix the roof and, you know, our dock one day was one summer ended up in the, in two bays over and so, you know, you have to get the dock rebuilt and all that. So it's a little bit different than having a place up in the Niagara escarpment, which is, you know, there's not that same upkeep. So do I understand, right, that you're, that Ron apologized to you. your father subsequently for sharing that personal information with Gere Joyce. I don't know if you, you weren't there for the chat.

I wasn't there for the chat, but I'm sure they just kind of, they just, they talked it out. So, and I don't know, dad and I don't know if Ron apologized. Or he just said, I,

you know, I shouldn't have done grapes or whatever, but I don't know exactly what was said, but they talked about it. Did your dad have any, any anger at all towards Gere Joyce for writing the story? No, he thought it was a good story,

actually, you know, I thought it was a great story. You know, I thought it was good, Two episodes of Toronto miced about that story, because I had John Wing Jr. on to talk about, you know, Ron and Dawn, basically, in that story. I also had Gerr Joyce on to talk in more detail.

And he said, you know, this was shared by Ron on the call for the Wolf Island story. Yeah, you know, because I heard when Gary Joyce, I knew, I was, oh, oh, I said, this is not going to be a good article on dad. So, but it was good. I mean, it was, you know, he did a good job of doing an article that isn't a typical article on Don Cherry, right? Which is kind of refreshing. Yeah, if you want something like that,

Gere is your guy. Like, long form, interesting. I mean, he's too good to be writing about sports, Gere Joyce. Yeah, yeah. It was good to talk about it with Danny and, you know, and the guys in the gas station. And, yeah, so, you know,

and that was, I mean, I think, you know, not that dad needed a break or anything, but it was kind of a good, you know, getting away from Toronto, to go and Wolf Island and go to Fargo's grocery store and hang out at the gas station, stuff like that, is a different world than living in Toronto. Just to turn the channel,

because we will get to Poppygate, and then I do have more questions for you. I'm so glad you're here, Tim. Oh, thanks. This is fun. I couldn't land your father on Toronto Mike. I couldn't make him an FOTM, but this is a great chat here.

So did you ever hear the Scott Thompson episode of Toronto Mic'd? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. So can I play this? I know I got a lot of audio here, but can I play? So this is actually the audio from Toronto mic of Scott Thompson listening and reacting to the moment on Ralph Benmergy's Friday night. We talked about open mic earlier. Ralph Ben-Murgy had for at least 18 months or so had that Friday night show on CBC.

Shout out to Ralph Ben-Murgy if he's listening in Hamilton. But Ralph Ben-Murgy had Friday night and then Scott Thompson came on to surprise Don Cherry. And I want to play this clip of Scott. reacting to the clip of Friday night. That's a long-winded way of saying, we'll talk about on the other side. Here we go. This is a big, big thrill for me.

I'm glad he could get dressed up for the occasion. What is our location is shooting? Yeah. I heard you're doing a big show and we were working, so I thought I want to come and wish you the best. Thank you. To see Dawn here. Don't prefer the Donald or just Dawn?

Well, I like Donald. Okay. Sit down, sit down. And you know, I heard, it was, you were talking earlier about violence in hockey. Yeah. And I have to say that I am in your camp, sir. I love the violence in hockey. Well, when you start talking love, I'm in trouble.

I'll tell you that. I'll tell you something. I really enjoy the violence. We have the actual, we're having the same. And I think the reason the level of belligerence in the NHL is being brought down is the Europeans. The faggy Europeans. And we're having the exact same problem. We are having the exact same...

Well, you should know. I would, I do, Don. Listen to this. And we're having the exact same problem in the gay community right now. Whenever a brawl breaks out in a bar, all the Europeans are in the corner saying, don't hit me, don't hit me. And the Canadians are out there, snuggy away, you know. So when they say don't hit you... And I'm snuggling with him.

So when the flags in the quarters say don't hit them, what do you do to them? You kiss them. I know, that's it. So tell the listeners what we heard there. That's me and Don Cherry on the Ralph Ben Murphy show. And you were cuddling up. Oh, my God, I haven't had that kind of chemistry since. I've never had that kind of chemistry with a man.

I love Don Cherry. I think he got really screwed. I think Canada did him bad. Well, Rogers did that. Rogers, they did him wrong. And I think he should never have been treated the way he was. And I think that was one of my favorite moments ever in Canadian television. Because you could see him change.

You could see him shift. You could see him sense where the winds were blowing. And he just went, boom, he changed. Because at the beginning, he's making, he's doing limp wrists. and he's doing this kind of thing, and then you can see him kind of saying, so this isn't going well, the audience likes this guy.

Right. And then you can see him kind of like, I kind of like, oh, I kind of like this guy. And he kind of, I know how to, I mean, I grew up with men. I know what men like.

I know what men respect. I have so many brothers. And I could see Don, I mean, I knew there was no hate in his heart. And I just went, this guy's just trying to figure it out. So I didn't, you know,

and then you can watch it, kind of look at each. other like we're kind of similar, right? Like I'm a scrapper. Right. And he's a scrapper and he can recognize it. And I think by the end of that, it was kind of a love fest. And, you know, and I just think that's really interesting. I just really believe that people can change and that people have their personas and then there's the real thing. And it's just, I think, a fantastic moment. I'm so proud of that moment. I wanted to play that for you because I want to hear your thoughts on it, but also because I was, you know, Scott was sitting where you are and I'm playing that and I'm watching Scott.

You can hear his laughter through the whole thing. Scott lit up. He absolutely loved that moment with your father on Friday night with Ralph Benmerge. Well, I got to tell you. So I think when that started, I don't think Scott was on the Larry Sanders show at the time. I don't think so. It might be before that. It was just a kid in the hall.

Right. So when they brought. and this was live. Like that, that was live, right? That was live to air. So there was a lot of things that could have gone wrong there. So when I'm watching Dad,

I remember I was in my basement watching it, and then they said, Scott Thompson. So I'm pretty sure Dad didn't know who Scott was at the time because he didn't watch kids in the hall. Now, I knew who Scott Thompson was, and I know how over the top he could get.

And I actually turned the TV off. I thought this, you were scared. I just were scared. I thought, if Scott does something, over the top, this could get bad. And I was a little mad at CBC for putting Dad in that position. Like, you shouldn't be doing that. Now, the one thing with Dad, people say, like,

what are some of the traits that people don't know about that? Dad's very good about reading a room. Like, he's really good. Some people might say he's not, but he's good about reading a room. And you can kind of see, as Scott said, you can kind of see Dad kind of, okay, where are we going here? What are we doing here? And then I saw it a couple of days later, I saw it.

And one of the guys I went to school with Kevin Hunt, he was the floor manager at CBC doing that at the time. And he called me up and he says, he goes, you can't believe the audience when that was going on. He says they were just going insane. Well, they're cuddling in that seat together. And they're having that back and forth. But I can see why you'd be afraid because your father, again, 92.

How old is your dad now? 92. Yeah. So we all have. You know, we've evolved so much over the past, you know, 30, 40 years where we were all raised with casual to higher levels of homophobia just sort of like accepted as a reality in our world. Right. Yeah. You know, like today, and I notice because your dad does drop the F slur, but he does it because Scott does it.

And he's trying to match Scott or whatever. So it hits differently. But that could have gone south, but it didn't. and Scott to this day, it's probably his favorite moment on television ever. Yeah, well, that was. So I was talking about a friend, I remember Kevin, who was the floor manager,

he says, the problem with the, he says, that show was, he goes, that was the first show, and he goes, and it was all downhill after that. He says, he says, he, and from what I think he said,

he goes, they didn't like, the producers didn't like that, Ralph kind of let them go. And I thought, well, that's the beauty of what he did. He let them go. That was the smart thing to do

is instead of trying to jump in. Right. So, no, and, no, it is one of dad's classic moments. Like, if you were to say, what was one of the more classic moments of dad? I've got to say, you know, there's some stuff knocking at it in Canada. And then, you know, and then I remember dad, you know, he, dad was a fan of the Larry Sanders show. And when Scott got on, he was so excited that Scott was on. And, and so he would make sure he would watch that to make sure that Scott was, because I think he was Hank's assistant to that way. Hey Now. Hey Now. Yeah, he was his assistant. So, yeah, no, that was, it went great, but I could tell you,

but I was just thinking, oh, my God, this could really, this could get. Because you feel like don't blindside Don Cherry with a flamboyant gay man for fear that on live TV, Don might say something that's perceived as homophobic. Right. Am I reading between the lines? Right. Yeah. You know, and, and that's not, it's always like, the thing is, I think with CBC sometimes,

I always wondered that it was, I'm trying to think of what, oh, it was during the Olympics, and I think it was Susan Trombly said that the French Canadian athletes felt uncomfortable at Canada House because there was too many Canadian flags. Oh, okay. Yeah, so at one of the Olympics, I don't know it was turn or something like that. Okay. So I don't know who. It wasn't wrong.

It was somebody else dad was talking with. It might have been Terry liable. And she asked him that. And dad said, well, they don't like our flag, but they like our money. And there was a big brouha about that. So one of the producers there, a guy named Dave Tom, he said, what, he goes, what do you expect if you ask Don Cherry that? Like, if you don't want to get that blowback of people being upset, don't ask them. Like if you don't want to get bit, don't stick your hand in front of a pit bull's mouth.

And I think a lot of times that's what happened with CBC, was they would kind of put that in a situation, or the producers would ask him a situation. Like bait him almost. Batem. And he would react the way they thought react. And then there'd be this big blowback. And then they would say, oh, he shouldn't have said that.

Well, you know the way he's going to act. So either don't ask him or accept that. Part of the responsibility is, yeah, we did ask him that. But I am curious, so there was a fear that Dawn would say something homophobic, but that begs the question. Is your father homophobic? Oh, no. No, no. Wait there, you can see that.

And, you know, I remember when he was with the church, he was, we were Church of Anglican Church, so I remember we had to do a, the congregation got together, and we had to vote whether we could have gay marriages in our church. Right. So everybody, and I was kind of astonished that some of the people were really against it, right? So they asked Dad, so Dad got up, he says, is it going to cost me any money? And they go, no, he goes,

What do I give a shit? Right. Consenting adults in their own bedroom, yeah. Yeah, he goes, what do I care? You know, like, and Dad's, dad's not, he's not homophobic. But they, you know, sometimes he did a couple of floppy things one time when he was in L.A., but he was making, I think he was trying to make fun of more the L.A. style.

Right. And they said, oh, you know, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, He's mocking homosexuality. But as I say, dad didn't care. In fact, one time, it was in Vancouver, I remember, somebody wrote him a letter that said that they were playing in the gay Olympics in New York, and they were a hockey team, and if you could wish us luck. So dad said, you know, there's a gay Olympic hockey team going into, and Toronto, he goes,

I want you to go in dad's style. He goes, I want you to go kick some ass. And, you know, the guy wrote back says, you know, I really appreciated that you did that, you know. And Ron, so this is kind of what happened. So Ron got mad that dad said go kick some ass. And then Ron said something. The dad got into this, they got to this little,

little tit for tat back and forth. And then the guy wrote back and P.S., tell your partner to shut up. So that, you know, that kind of happens. So, you know, dad's, that's, you know, we, we, you're not, he's not homophobic. That, that's, that's silly. All right.

Another, uh, similar question is your father racist? This is going to tie into Poppygate? No, he's not. If, you know, they, I would say, you ask me, is dad judgmental? Dad's is judgmental on people and his judgmentalness is if they work, is their work ethic. That, that, that's what he judges people on. He just doesn't understand and can't stand able-bodied people who can work and can get a job that don't. Because the lowest point in dad's life was after he retired in 1970.

And he was going to be a construction worker for the rest of his life. He worked construction for since he was 15 years old. And his father instilled a work ethic in him. And then he couldn't get a job. And he wasn't educated, didn't have a trade, couldn't get a job. And to say it was the lowest point of his life was of him not finding work. So I don't think that judges people on the race, but just if their work ethic. And if they are a contributing part of the society or the village.

I think it's time for Poppy Gate. And then I have some lighter fare on the other side here. a lot of ground I want to cover. But does your father still enjoy a wobbly pop? Yeah, he had a beer last night watching some popcorn watching the game. He just, not as many as he used to, but he had a Canadian last night watching the first period. Okay, here's the million dollar question,

although don't ask me for that in cash or money order. But if I were to send you home, Tim, with some fresh craft beer brewed by a... Canadian, a Toronto guy, Peter Bullitt owns the company, they brew it in south at Tobacco. Would you share some Great Lakes beer with your father, Don Cherry? Yes. So he's coming

over on Sunday to watch the game. So I will have a beer together. Okay, let me know. Write me an email and let me know what Don thought of the Great Lakes beer that you're going to share with him. So thank you to Great Lakes. Great Lakes is hosting all of us. You're

invited Tim. If Dell's listening, he's invited. All the Listenership is invited. It is called TMLX-22, the 22nd Toronto-Miked listener experience. It's happening June 25th from 6 to 9 p.m. At Great Lakes Brewery at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard in South Etobico here.

Everyone's invited. Bring your dad. Dad doesn't make any more personal appearances. No more personal appearances. But he still talks to Joe Warmington, right? Yeah, Joe comes over. All my info about from him lately on the Gair thing and Ron McLean came from.

Joe, because Joe has become like the Dawn Whisperer. Yeah, he comes over and says a little bit. His family, Joe Warmington's family, has a family plot in Cataraqua Cemetery right next to the Don Cherry family plot. I didn't know that. Yeah. Interesting.

Yeah, so the Warmingtons and the cherries have known each other for an awfully long time. Gotcha. I will tell you, though, if you, Tim, come to TMLX-22 on June 25th from 6 to 9 p.m. Everybody will eat delicious palma pasta. They're in Mississauga and Oakville. It's another family-run business, Canadian business, and it's delicious.

And I'm going to send you home with a frozen lasagna, Tim. All right. Let me know if Don gets a slice of that on the weekend. I will. I'm half Italian. My mom, Rose Cherry, was first-generation Italian from her family came over. So her family came over and then mom was born. So would that be first or second generation?

first first generation so her her mom and dad came over from Italy and settled in Hershey Pennsylvania and then dad played in Hershey and met and they fell in love and mom I always said the funny thing is um dad uh like I wonder what my mom had to say to her parents were I'm marrying an Anglican Canadian hockey player right and my and mom got excommunicated from the Catholic church from marrying dad. And actually the priest said, if any of my mom's friends went to the wedding, they would get excommunicated. Wow.

And I said, so my mom, so my dad would have to go to his mom, who was, she was Anglican, and was not a big fan English and were not a big fan of the Catholics and seeing, I'm marrying an American, Italian Catholic girl. So I said, how did that go, dad? And you, well, he goes, your mom want her. over. So it's funny, you know, they asked dad about being, you know, racism and stuff like that.

I mean, dad had to deal with, it wasn't so much racism, but the religious aspects of what back in the 50s of an Anglican marrying a Catholic, especially in Pennsylvania was just, it was heresy, right? You know, like, and, um, like forget, you know, nowadays, you know,

my wife is a Filipino descent, okay? So nowadays, you know, races marry different races. Nobody even thinks twice, but back then, you couldn't even choose a different Christian sect. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you're both Christian, but different sects. Yeah. S-C-C-T-S, by the way, everybody. Gotta be careful of that word.

But, and that would be heresy, as you said. Yeah. No, no, it was, yeah, it was big, so it was like, am I going to be, you know, there was, I think there was a little bit of whether I was going to be raised Catholic or Anglican, but I think my mom's, my dad's mom won. so I was I was Anglican and uh yeah my my wife is uh from uh Shanghai so uh you know her and dad get along greats and and in fact I'll tell you a story about like yes please if if that was racist that I had been married before and uh I me too brother yeah so when you get

divorced you get a little gun shy like there's there's that you're you know your little thing so my wife and I Ling We'd known each other for almost 30 years. But she went when she was in Mississauga. So we'd known each other for like three decades. So after I'd got divorced, you know, after a while, her and I started going out, gone to date, and then it got more serious.

So after a long while, she moved in with me. And so we were living together for maybe about a year. And my dad came over to me and was, Ling was out front doing something. And dad loves Ling because she's such a hard worker. And so he said to me, he says, do you love Ling? And I go, yep, he goes, Ling love you. And I go, well, yep, she says she does anyway. So, and he goes, he goes, I really like Ling.

I really admire her. I said, you know, the courage of her coming over with, you know, not knowing the language. And, you know, she got a job. Second day, she was over here. And he goes, would she feel more comfortable or better if you were married? And I said, you know, so now you kind of take that mask. Dad stripped it right down saying, you know, okay. okay, here's, you know, get over it, you know.

And I said, yeah, I think, you know what, Dad, yeah, I think she would. He goes, then you're not being honorable. He said, you should marry her. You're not being honorable. He says, you're taking advantage. He says, you know, you basically should or get off the pot. And so, I mean, that was, you know, that was people asked, what was my dad's last kind of advice? That was his last, I don't even know if it was advice, but it was kind of kicking me in the ass a little bit, saying, you know, what you're doing to her isn't right.

and that. That's the perfect segue to listen to this 90 seconds and talk about this. You ready, Tim? Yep. You know, I was talking to a veteran. I said, I'm not going to run the poppy thing anymore because what's the sense? I live in Mississauga. Nobody wears a very few people wear a poppy.

Downtown Toronto, forget it, downtown Toronto. Nobody wears a poppy. And I'm not going to be. He says, wait a minute. How about running it for the people that buy them? Now, you go to the small cities and you, You know, the rows on rows, you people love, they come here, whatever it is, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey. At least you can pay a couple of bucks for poppies or something like that.

These guys pay for your way of life that you enjoy in Canada. These guys paid the biggest price. Anyhow, I'm going to run it again for you great people and good Canadians that bought a poppy. I'm still going to run it. Anyhow. Love you for it. Here we are November 11th. We're in Trilankan, British Cemetery in France.

All right, Tim, where do I go with this one? Okay. What are your thoughts and what transpires? This is the final coach's corner with your father. Yeah. Well, I knew he was in trouble. Like, my wife and I were watching it, and then we were going to New York the next day.

And, you know, this was, timings of everything, too. I mean, this was, I think, at the height of the cancel culture. And I think that, you know, he was, that was something you shouldn't be talking about at that time. And so when I called Dad, though, the next day before we left, and I think I said, oh, Ling, this is bad. No, Cindy didn't hear it. And then she was up in Ottawa at a pet rescue thing. And then she heard it, and then I talked to her, and she says,

I, you know, I said, I think Dad's in trouble. She's, yeah, maybe, I don't know. And then I called Dad, and I said, have you heard anything? This was in the morning. She said, no, he goes, why? Like, he didn't know the maelstorm that was coming, right? And then Kathy Brodera called me and said, I'm giving, I gave your phone number to an executive at Rogers, and he's going to give you a call.

So, you know, I'm at the airport. You go on an airplane mode, right? So I'm not getting any calls or anything. and I landed LaGuardia and my phone's just blowing up. And I knew that was the end. Like I knew that he wasn't going to survive this. And, you know, like I, you know, his dad said he didn't mean to talk about immigrants. He wished you used different words and stuff like that.

But, you know, they weren't going to get him to apologize because he says, what am I going to apologize for? I didn't mean immigrants. So if I apologize, that means I am talking about immigrants. and then I'm not going to apologize for people not wearing poppies because people weren't wearing poppies anymore. And so it was a situation where I think once it was over, the die was cast that that was going to be it. So those words, you people, you people,

you come here for a milk and honey. I don't know how to interpret that any other way than new Canadians, we'll call them, new Canadians. And he doesn't explicitly, you know, new Canadians don't have to be people of color. Right. No, I'm an immigrant. So where, well, where were you born? Hershey, Pennsylvania.

Yeah, like your sister, of course. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and my wife, she's from, well, she's from Shanghai, and, you know, we wear poppies. Again, dad, I think dad was kind of excited, and you could see that he wasn't, he was stumbling over his words. Well, that fires him up. This subject, I'm looking at a poppy right now. This subject fires your father up. He's very proud of the military.

He's proud of his country. And it angers him when people don't wear a poppy. I think the great error in that rant there, if you will, was blaming it on new Canadians because you people is new Canadians. And then, of course, the majority of our new Canadians are people of color. Right. Yeah. And as you say, there's a lot of ways to interpret it.

And I could see that once Dad said that and slip of the tongue or whatever, that it was... That was it because he wasn't going to apologize for that. No. No.

So now I need to ask you, do you think Rogers was just waiting for your father to give them a reason to get out from this... No, I don't... Controversial show?

The guy that... The person, I won't name the person I talked to because he asked me not to, but you could hear the angst in his voice. Like, he was really...

Like, this really heard him. Like, he didn't know what to do. And he asked me, he says, you... From what Dad told me, because I was in New York, the executives met with Rogers, met with Dad at his house, and wanted him to read an apology that they had written for him.

And he just go, like, did they, so when they did that, they go, I say to myself, did they know that dad wouldn't do that? And that's what they wanted him to do? Or was that what they felt? The lawyers felt that they needed him to do, you know what I mean? And then they want, and then Dad said they wanted him to let people know he was taking sensitivity courses. So I think on one hand, I think they were maybe putting roadblocks up for him so that

he wouldn't come back. But on the other hand, when I'm talking to this executive, like he, you could tell he was very, like, hurt and upset and he didn't want to be in that situation. By any chance, I know we kind of covered this when we talked about Gere's story about Wolf Island and Ron's call with Gare that made it to print there. But is this the exit strategy maybe that... Ron alluded to? Well, you know,

Ron did, more than a few people did. You got fired on Remembrance Day for people not wearing poppies, right? You know, like you couldn't write that any better. I said to dad,

I said, Dad, I said, he goes, people are saying that. I go, yeah, I think Dad says, I'm not that smarter. I'm not that dumb egos to do that.

So. Except we both know he is that smart. Yeah, but of, if he wanted to get, I think he would have said something a lot more outrageous if he wanted to get fired.

You know what I mean? Because he was, like you're kind of semi-straddling the line there. I think he would have been. But he's a bit of a martyr. I can tell you there's a contingent of Don Cherry fanatics who are, A, they're still pissed off at Rogers in Hockey Night in Canada, but they're also pissed off at Ron McLean,

who they see Ron as throwing your father under the bus. Yeah. I think the Rogers threw Ron under the bus as much as... Okay, tell me about that. Well, I think that it, If you had old-time executive producers, such as Ralph Mellonby or John Shannon, or Scott Moore, he's not so much old school, but he's around. He's been over here a couple of times. Yeah, Scott Moore.

Ronnie Harrison would be another guy. If this situation came up, those guys would have held a press conference. And they would have said, you know, we're firing or I'm firing Don Cherry. And they would have taken the questions and they would have taken the slings and arrows to protect Ron and to protect. Hockey Night in Canada. And I just don't think that Rogers thought that out enough and let Ron take the fury. And I don't know if they did that on purpose or if they just weren't thinking about it. And, you know, I don't hold any animosity towards Ron.

I think it was a bad situation. When Ron said, that's why we love you. There's no doubt they were, he was, they were talking in his years, screaming at him to get off because they were heavy time-wise. And, and, like, I'm, I look like my dad, but I act like my mom. And I know my mom would have said, get over it, you know, with Ron, what's the thing with Ron. It's not, you know, I, I don't hold, and same as Sydney in the book.

We don't hold any animosity towards Ron. I'm glad to hear that. I did it. He's been over here for an episode. I think we did about 90 minutes or so. We covered a lot of ground. But my feeling regarding Ron McLean is that he's an ethical, thoughtful person. who deeply considers everything, the ethics around things.

I would hate to hear that there was any animosity towards Ron McLean because of Poppygate. No, no, it's not, as they say. I watched when, you know, I watched the next coach's corner, so the next coach's corner. And like, I'm just kind of rooting for Ron. Like, you know, and you go, yeah, that's all right. Maybe you shouldn't have said that. Oh, that's okay. But it was.

This was the monologue, right? It was kind of, I watched it too, like many Canadians, but it was kind of awkward. Yeah. The whole Ron monologue the week after. Yeah. And I don't think they should have done that with Ron. I don't think, I think, you know, again, I would think as a corporation, Ron McLean was an asset. You should be protecting that asset.

And I don't think they protected. But I think they saw him at the end. I think they saw your father as a liability. Oh, yeah. Always. Like Rogers is risk adverse because it's a huge. He's a huge. You know how many times Dad was fired at CBC?

Oh, I don't know how many times he was fired at CBC. Dad always say, yeah, we'll see. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. They, dad, they wanted, I don't know who it was. I won't mention her name because she might get mad, but she says, we're going to let you go at the end of the year. We're going to fire you at the end of the year.

Dad still had two years left on this contract or something like that. And she says, but what we want you to do is we want you to go to every city and go on the ice with Ron and say goodbye. Like a farewell tour. Yeah. That's not your dad's style. No, he goes absolutely not. He goes, no, he says, I'm not doing that.

So he goes, no, he says, I'm not doing that. She says, well, we're going to let you go. And dad always said, yeah, we'll see. And then there was another guy that they hired was the executive. And he said, my job is for when I leave to fire you, and that would be my legacy that I fired you. And dad says, okay, we'll see. And so he went on a number.

another five or six years. So dad's been fired so many times at CBC. It was just, this was just a matter of time. And, you know, and dad kind of got into the same situation when he was with in Boston. And he got,

Harrison and offered him a contract after the 79 loss to the Montreal Canadian, so too many men on the ice. Right. But he didn't fire him. He actually offered dad a contract, but he said, you can't do this, you can't do this, and you can't do this.

So dad went to my mom and said, if Harry doesn't get me now, he's going to get me later. So, you know, I'm not, why bothers signing the contract? And I think the same thing, if dad kind of capitulated to Rogers, something would have happened that they would have gotten rid of them. So, I mean... Fascinating. You know, I just caught the time.

I'm looking at it, and I realize I have eight hours more content with you here, and I'm going to try to cram it in. You'll give me another 30 minutes, right? Sure. Okay, Tim, amazing. I can even come back someday if you want. Oh, wait. Well, we're going to stop far away. Well, let's, okay, that's amazing.

So the three things I need to cover before we go take our photo by Toronto Tree. Yeah. I need to cover, keep your head up, kid, the Don Cherry story. I need to cover grapevine, and I need to cover Rockham-Sacham, the videos, okay? So we'll do it in that order here. But, and I know you're involved in, are you involved of all three of these projects? Yeah, I wrote, I wrote the, uh, the screenplays for, Keep your head up kid, the Don Cherry story.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to shout out a fellow FOTM. You're now an FOTM, Tim, friend of Toronto Mike, and Al Grego, who I believe is on the live stream right now. Al Grego has, he's a super fan of Letter Kenny and Shorzie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you watch Letter Kenny and Shorzie?

Oh, yes, for sure. Yeah. And you know what funny thing with Jared Kiso? He's late out of camera. He's not acting. Well, he's going to come up in one of the questions here, Jared Kiso. Absolutely. but because Jared, so Al Grego hosts a show that dives deep into the world of Letterkenny and Shorzie,

and the show is called The Produce Stand. And they're actually now, because I guess they have some time on their hands here, they're actually diving into Keep Your Head Up Kid, the Don Cherry story, because Jared Kiso plays your father. Right. So first I'm going to ask a question on behalf of Al Grego, and then I'm going to ask you about Keep Your Head Up Kid, the Don Cherry story. So the question from Al Grego is, would you be a Zoom or remotely,

would you appear on Al Grego's produce store, the produce stand? Sorry, I can get that name right. I don't watch it, unfortunately. I missed out on this one. But the produce stand, would you appear on their show to discuss, keep your head up, kid, the Don Cherry story? Sure. Okay, that's, Al's a happy guy right now.

Absolutely. Okay, that's going to happen. I'm going to help broker that deal. Okay, so what can you tell us? So you wrote Keep Your Head Up Kid, the Don Cherry story. Yeah. Well, I always, you know, like I, at the time that we did this, I started to write it, I think most people thought Dad had only been on television,

or there was just a few people knew that he was kind of the coach of the Bruins. But they did know, kind of know the backstory of, you know, playing in the minor leagues and playing with Eddie Shore and kind of, again, going through the tough times of not, you know, not having a job. And like, the reality is with dad, which is an amazing, you know, fact is he went from being unemployed and he was getting two bucks an hour painting houses to coach him,

Bobby Orr in four years. Right. So, like, it's a pretty amazing story. It is a, it's a great story. I remember watching this. And Jared Kiso did a great job. Yeah. The reason we picked Jared was he, he did an interpret.

as opposed to an impression. So you got, he was Don Cherry, but there wasn't really this kind of, kind of over the top impersonation. But I got to tell you story with Jared, is that, so we got, they did a huge casting for Dad, right? And so we got all the DVDs.

So Cindy and my dad and I sat down, and we said, okay, we're not going to see, we're just going to watch it, just write down your favorites. And we're not going to think. And Jared was, like, the third guy. And we watched about 40. And all of us said, there's only one guy.

And all three of us said it was Jared. Like, that was, like, that was only one guy to get, was Jared. And the battle we had with CBC to get him was. How come? I think. Not a big, no one enough name. Did they? Not a big enough name.

I think that they were worried. They kind of like their own guys. Like, they, they, they want. wanted to bring guys in it that they had kind of in their stable that were doing CBC movies and shows. But like Paul Gross? Who's coming in to play Don Cherry? Paul Gross was one they they they did. And he was, he would have, he would have been okay.

Paul Gross. And then there was a guy that did the, I forget, there was a show about a P.E. A P.I. out in Newfoundland. I forget what it was called. Doyle? Doyle. Something, Republic of Doyle. They wanted that guy.

Yes, I can see that guy. Yeah. And they wanted him to do it. But they couldn't, like, the guys weren't good skaters. And the thing is, Jared played hockey, right? Right. So it was, it was Jeff Wulner, who was the director, that, and he wanted Jared, too. He just said, there's nobody about Jared, that Jared wanted to do it.

So we, I forget who the executive at the head guy at CBC was. And he was just saying, over my dead body, or we get in Jared. And then Jeff said, he goes, Jared's going to be a star. and he says, I know Jared's going to be a star and we're going to let everybody know that you're the guy that passed him over. And then he says, it's your effing heads on the show I don't care anymore.

And he slammed the phone down. And we got Jared and look at my... There's a follow-up question from the aforementioned Al Gorego. He says, Mike, if you have a chance, ask Tim what he thinks about the success of Shorzie because many people believe Jared Kiso based his main character on Don Chos. Sherry.

It's just that swagger of, I love Shorzie. It's just the swagger, right? It's the swagger that those guys had in the American hockey league. Like, you had to be tough, you had to be rough. You know, everybody's seen the movie Slapshot. I mean, of course. Like, Dad had to go through stuff in Slapshot would make Slapshot look like a PG movie. Like, the violence and the stuff that Dad went through.

People say today, oh, hockey's so violent. Like, say, are you kidding me what Dad had to go through? Right. And so, and if he did, if it helped channel him a little bit, then I consider that a compliment. Absolutely, absolutely it's a compliment. Okay, so any other tidbits before I move on to Grapevine? Any other tidbits about keep you head up, kid?

No, I was, you know, I think we're really proud of what we did. I mean, I tell you the one thing that I did kind of, toy with was to tell it through my mom's perspective as opposed to dad's perspective. Because I said, you know, you look at the two best sports movies, I think, are Bull Durham and Slapshot. Bull Durham is told through the eyes of Susan Sarandon's character. And Slapshot was written by Nancy Dowd, right, a woman. Right. So I thought, yeah, I know, why wouldn't it be a good idea if we kind of went through what it was like for mom to do it?

But I thought, I might be a little bit too radical. So we didn't. And then I kind of based, when I was writing it, I kind of based it on the story of Goodfellas. Because it's like this woman marries this guy who's in the mafia. Mom marries this guy who's a hockey player. And hockey becomes mom's family. I see it now.

Yeah. It's just like a light went on in my head. Yeah. And so, and you had all these crazy characters and it was the violence and all that. Who's Joe Pesci? Joe Peschie would have been a guy named Larry Zydell but Larry is a big guy Larry the Rock Zidel

What the fuck is funny about me? Yeah No Larry He was probably the most violent guy in Hawke Him and Connie Mad Dog Madaghan Who we didn't have time to put it into the movie You got to amalgamate some characters in these things

Wow Okay Goodfellas was robbed in 1990 They gave the Oscar for best picture to dances with wolves. Should have been Goodfellas. Come on. 100%.

Yeah. You and I'm on the same page. Can you watch Goodfellas and start to watch it and not watch it? It's like the Godfather that way. You can't pop in and then leave it. No. And then you could probably do half the lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, ever since I can remember. I wanted to be a gangster. And that's how I opened a thing. Yeah. I always wanted to be a hockey player. The mind's already blown here. Okay, so again, because I'm checking out the clock over here. Grapevine.

I heard a tidbit about a guy, I hope, this guy bugs me immensely, Kevin O'Leary. Oh, yeah. This man is, I would love to talk to your father about what he thinks when somebody like Kevin O'Leary says Canada should be the 51st state. Oh, well, dad just, I got to tell you, dad is kind of a Republican Trump fan,

but he just doesn't understand talking about it. Okay, so, be. being a Trump fan is, that's a whole different level of disappointment, but it's like specifically, Canada should be the 51st state. What would your dad say to me if I asked him what he thinks of Canada being the 51st state? No, Canada's Canada. I mean, that's...

I'd want him to punch me in the nose. Yeah. Like, I want your father, if somebody goes up to your father, this is like when that person went up to Buzz Aldrin and said, you fake the moon landing. Buzz punches you right in the freaking nose, okay? I want to know that if I go up to Don Cherry and say, Don, what do you think of Canada being the 51 state?

He punches me in the nose for even suggesting it. Your father is one of the most fiercely proud Canadians I know. Yeah. I know of, I should say. Yeah, no, that's true. And, you know. But Kevin O'Leary goes on, like, he'll go on CNN or Fox News and say Canada should be the 50 first state first for some economic reasons. Well, he's doing that so he can go on.

He's saying that. I want your father to punch Kevin O'Leary in the nose. I want you to commit to that. Okay, if he sees him. But, yeah, I read some of that he was part of the grape plan. Yeah, that's where I'm going with this. I don't remember any of that. So his production company produced Grapevine.

No, I don't. It was Jerry Patterson on SC Set TV, special event television. I don't know if Kevin had money in it. I never met Kevin. Right. But it was Jerry Patterson and Ralph Melanby that started it. And I think it was Ralph. That's why you're here to set the record straight.

Because I heard this from like a fairly reliable source who was telling me Kevin O'Leary's production company produced Grapevine. And I took a note and said, I got Tim Cherry in the basement. I'm going to find it. So like I said, maybe he owned it or I had money into it, but it was Jerry Patterson, Ralph Maliby, Dave Thompson, were the producers of the show.

And I never, he's Kevin O'Leary, I'll take a look back, but I don't think I ever saw his name on. In your return to Toronto, Mike, when all the questions I couldn't get to, we'll see what you learn about Kevin O'Leary and Grapevine. But anything you can say about Grapevine before I play, I've been waiting for you to come just so I could play this clip from Rockham Socom and talk about that.

but grapevine I tuned in. Yeah, you know what? And that was, again, Ralph Maliby's brainchild. And, you know, it, again, it kind of showed dad's talent. The first, like, he, the first episode was, we were going to interview Gordy Howe. And dad was literally thinking, goes, I think I'm going to run away. I don't want to do this. I'm going to run away.

I'm so nervous. Because he was, you know, only a couple of years in the coach's corner. He was still, am I going to get back into coaching? And now he had to sit and dad never interviewed anybody before. Right. It's a different animal than him having the five minutes or whatever. Yeah, plus you got a bunch of cameras and you're in front of a live audience. And you know what?

And dad did a great job. Ralph, you know, he set the tone of for the next 13 years. I think we went 13 years. We ran with it. And, you know, did a lot of Canadian, mostly Canadian athletes. And there's never been a show like that in the sense where you're, in a live audience watching the show. And I think it worked because you would get the reaction from the live audience.

It's not like a one-on-one. Like when we had Bob Probert on, you know, and like you couldn't get a ticket to the show. And when Probert was talking about fighting, you could just see the people leaning in on every word. And he would say something kind of funny, but they would all laugh. And you don't have a show like that anymore,

where you're getting the live audience reacting to it. Yeah, I produced a show for John Gallagher and Peter Gross called Gallagher and Gross Save the World. Much love to John Gallagher, who's, he's been in the hospital for a year now. He suffered some serious strokes. Oh, no. I'm a big John Gallagher fan, but I know he used to, from Wayne Gretzky's, he used to do the show Gallagher or whatever in front of a live audience, but it wasn't great fine. But, okay, you ready for this? Yeah.

Audio? Are you ready for this? That's a good segue, actually. I'm going to play most of it until you can't take it anymore. I'll bring it back up the lyrics here, but not the best recording, but best I could do.

You know who did the music? You're going to tell me right now. Chris Shepard. You know, I did know this. Hold on. Do you know where Chris Shepard is by any chance? No, you know, I got to tell you, I'm working with

working with a producer at CBC and we're looking to do a documentary on Rockham Sockham. Oh, wow. The cultural impact it had had in Canada and how... I'm your target audience for that dog. So,

and one of the things we ought to do is, we should try to get a hold of Chris Shepard and it was like, nobody knows where he is. Well, let me fill you in real quick. There was a documentary about Playde a Record, this shop in Toronto, where Shep would buy all his 12-inch singles and stuff.

Yeah, it's the same. producer. Same producer. Okay. Rob, what's his name? Neil. Neil, okay. So they couldn't find Chris for that.

So they have archival footage. But then, this was the big one. They made a documentary about CFNY, 102.1, the spirit of radio. Shep was a superstar there. Couldn't get him on that documentary. So good luck. No, I reached out to a bunch of people that nobody knows where he is. I think that's the next documentary.

Where's pirate radio? That was his thing, right? 100%. And I had BKS. You remember BKS? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had Simone Denny over and, uh, yeah.

I thought about the where's Chris Shepard, but then I thought, doesn't a man have the right to disappear? Sure. Yeah. You know what? I felt like let's let, he wanted, he obviously wanted to disappear. Yeah. He was successful. Leave him be.

That's right. It's like searching for Sugar Man. 100%. That's my first time. Searching for Sugar Man. Okay. So rock'em sock. We're going to talk about it right now.

That's the techno, Chris Shepherd. That's a mind blow. What do you think of that song, Tim? Well, we want, I think we were on much music. We got Grand Famage for the worst video. Ed the sock was doing that, right? Ed the sock, yep, we had that. You know, it was fun.

Dad had fun with it. So, you know. I mean, he's a good sport because that is, it is of the time. That's key, right? You got to listen to it in that, like, 1990 brain. Techno. Techno craze, right. You got Chris Shepard on there.

You know, Bobby Orr, this is pretty cool stuff for Don Cherry to be doing, I think. Maybe it ages a bit cheesy, and maybe it was cheesy at the time, but it was fun. Yeah, it was campy. That's what we were looking for, like campy, and we had some people, we did like a little video and of it and stuff like that. And that was the thing with Rockham Stock and you can't take it, you know, and Dad always kind of did his stuff. Even as commercials, we don't take yourself too serious. Like, he was doing a commercial for Dominion lending, which was, you know, like, you know, loans or loans and stuff. So mortgage, mortgage company.

So we're trying to think of a commercial. Dad's thinking, you know, and I said, what the hell do you know about mortgages, dad? And he goes, I don't know anything. And I said, well, that's the commercial. You say, you know hockey, you know suits, you know dogs, but you know nothing about mortgages. And they did the commercial, and it turned out great.

Makes sense. Yeah, so dad, so we had a lot of fun with Rock. Well, tell me the origin story. Like, I can tell you, every Christmas you had that VHS, and it was the latest Rock. So it started with a guy, came to us, and I forget what year it was, and he wanted, again, there was no TSN back then, no sports net, but there was. Well, definitely no sports net, but I think there was, like, I think TSN was very young, maybe. Like, doesn't it come in 84?

I think, yeah, I don't, I think it was. But sports net is not until 98 or something. Yeah. So there was a fledgling, there was a sports net in New England. Connecticut. Right. So they came in and they wanted us to do a thing called This Week in Hockey and take,

just kind of do a wrap up of hockey. How about that? So we did that for them and then, which was like, you can't believe how much work it was. But it was a training ground for Rockham Sockham. So we did it for one year. And then these guys, quality special products who were,

they were big into music and stuff like that. Sweepa was their big product, that sweeping broom they had. And they said, we wanted to do a VHS tape of this, same type of concept. So my, you know, come up with the name. So my mom came up with the name, Rockham, Sockham Hockey. Wow. And we did it and it became with them.

It became a smash hit, unbeknownst to us, you know, how popular it became. And we just, you know, went 30 years with it. And it's amazing to see how kind of, first, the technology. You know, from start to finish, but also, like, footage meant nothing when we started it. Like, it didn't mean anything. Like, a whole year's worth of NHL highlights might have been two hours. And at the height of the Rockham, Sockham, like, rights and footage were everything. They were king.

They were gold. And I think that we were one of the ones that kind of started that, hey, there is value for this stuff. like, you know, like, the Daryl Sittler, 10-point game against the Bruins, which that was coaching, I was at that game. The CBC just threw it out

because they, you know, they were clear, they, you know, they had it. They needed the tape. They either. That's wild. Yeah. And, but now you'd never think of that.

Well, it's easier now because everything's digital, right? But back then it was either on three quarter inch or one inch tape and, and all that. And then it just became, I think one of the, the big reasons, though, it became successful was Blockbuster

because Blockbuster would buy maybe, you know, 50 per store for people to rent. So we were making pretty good money on the Blockbuster VHS. And then once people saw them, then they wanted to buy them and keep on themselves. It was a great holiday gift. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the hockey fan in your life.

Yeah, so we sold. It was like a three, we had really like a three week window of selling. Like, you know, the first week in December till, 25th and then that was it and then our sales dropped off to nothing I can imagine you're looking at that chart here it's like yeah you got your three weeks

you sell all your all your videos before the holiday season here I personally loved it like me and my brothers would put on the rockem sock them and I still remember the waster on Pete Peters like I still have memories of these different the rat Kenny Lindsman all these different scenes here

yeah well it is like if you if you do have like the box it look back at it it is like a a chronological history of the national hockey league for 30 years. A lot of great Wendell Clark in Bob Probert Tiltz. Oh, yeah. Love that stuff.

Wendell's in the studio. Hi, Wendell, what are you doing in the corner? We have a song. Dad did a song about Wendell Clark called Wendell. Yeah, yeah. So we had a guy named Peter Ross, who was kind of like, he was an editor, but he was also like a part-time music, like back then doing techno stuff.

Right. So we gave him, he says, can I do the music? And so we gave him a bunch of money, and he would do the music. And he'd say, oh, do, say Wendell Clark, say Dougie Gilmore, say Bob Probert. And then we would put it in the... So, Tim, I got to ask you, because I played that version of the techno, the Don Cherry techno rap there, the best version I could find, which, of course, is ripped from VHS to YouTube.

And it sounds like potato quality. Do you have access to the studio recordings of that Wendell Clark song and this techno? Like, do you have access to better audio? Um, not of that, of the Wendell Clark songs and stuff, but not of the technical. Okay, so would you be, like, for your return visit, could we hear the Wendell Clark song? Sure. Oh, yeah. Tim, I'm going to hold you to that. This is like my dream come true here. Okay. Wow. It's 1120. You're so easy to talk to, and I have so many questions.

So quick, we, that covers the stuff I had to get to. We'll save a bunch for the sequel. But how many Bull Terriers did you guys own that you named Blue? I kept hearing that, like, like, the name Blue would be be used for Don, for your bull terrier? Dad had two, the original, and then the second one. And then I had one, and then that was it. Okay, not so bad, because I had this vision of like, just like, like, I don't know, there are 12 blues. No, there's, I'll tell you a story about the original blue. Please.

So, dad, again, this was in the 70s. Dad had lost his job. He was kind of down, and we had dogs, but we always kind of got a dog. that mom wanted. So he had Maltises and we had toy dogs. Yeah, poodles. So dad goes, I want to get a dog that I want. So he wanted a bull terrier. So

we drove, again, we were unemployed, dad wasn't within, so we drove like four hours, five hours, we were living in Rochester at the time to get this dog. So they were looking, we were looking at different dogs, pups. And so they said, what about,

so dad saw blue and he said, what about that dog? They go, well, you know, we're going to put her down because she's got blue eyes. And blue eyes are not for breeding. Oh, for breeding. Yeah, it's not a good. So dad said, well, I'll take, then, we didn't have a lot of money then. She says, well, you can have her as long as you spay her.

So, dad said, okay. So we got her and we spayed her. And it was just as if we got her, dad's luck just changed. Wow. It just changed. And you look back and it's like, it's all these little, little, you know, maybe it's a little bit too long to talk about, but all these little happenstance moments that Dad had all started to line up for him to coach the Boston Bruins.

And it's just this little, but it all started when we got the dog. And so when she passed away, we had, I think she was about 13 or 14, which is pretty good for a bull terrier. They're usually about 10 years old. It was really rough on dad, all of us, because, you know, when we got her, like, dad was like, what am I going to do with my life to, you know, he was at his zenith of Coach's Corner. And, but I will say this. Yeah.

If you're, if you're thinking of getting a dog, don't get a bull terrier. They are, I love them. That's the only dog I would get, but they are an absolute handful. And, you know, my wife didn't like my pass. I have one called pal. And he, she was kind of in the end stages of her life and she couldn't handle him. So I love the dogs of death. There's so much personality.

But unless you're a real dog owner and you have a very strong hand, don't get a bull terrier. That's good advice. My ex got a Jack Russell. And they're just so active and there's so much work. It's like, it's just wild. Yeah. And they're mischievous and they're, they got a great personality and they're,

and they're spiteful. And they're, and they're, I just love the dogs. Like, like, they said, well, you know, maybe you get into the dog. I said, well, I can't get a bull terrier. I'm not getting another dog. But, yeah, but the first blue, it was just like, it was, it was scary looking back. Now you can say you're projecting it, but how dad's life and all our lives changed when we got the dog, when we got her. And I mean, growing up, blue was synonymous with your father.

Like, it was like your dad in blue. Like, that was a famous dog, like Lassie or the littlest hobo. Yeah. Well, I asked, I was talking to a guy a long, long time ago who was. he was looking, he was going to write a book on dad or something. I don't know if he ever did it. And I said, he goes, why do you think your dad is popular? And I says, I don't know.

And you were talking. He goes, you know why? He goes, name another Canadian celebrity that you knew his name, you knew his wife's name, and he knew his dog's name. Yeah. I can't think of anyone else on the top of my head. And the funny thing was with that, and the guy goes, with the dog, he says, it's a icebreaker.

Like when I go out scouting, people would come up to Dad. There was two questions. What's wrong with the Leafs or how's Blue? You know, how's Blue? And like asking Dad about his dog, he was an easy icebreaker. And, you know, that line, what's wrong at the Leafs? That's Evergreen, okay? Since 1967.

Yeah. What's wrong at the Leafs? Okay. Now, this is it because I'm going to read a couple. We had a live stream going. So I want to say thank you. to Recycle My Electronics.C.A. for helping to bring this great conversation to the people,

to the TMU, the Toronto Mike Universe. If you have any old electronics, old cables, old devices, Tim, don't put them in the garbage because those chemicals will end up in our landfill. Go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Put in your postal code and find out where you can drop that off to be properly recycled. And I want to give love to Nick Iienes. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline, and we have a little podcast together called

Mike and Nick, and he and the good people at Fusion Corp stepped up to help fuel the real talk over here. And last but not least, Ridley Funeral Home, Brad Jones is the funeral director. They are pillars of this community. They did send over a measuring tape for you, Tim Cherry. Thank you. You never know when you need a measuring tape here.

Oh, and last but not least, your dad loved baseball. Oh, yeah. You know, cost him dearly as a professional hockey player. But they have great baseball at Christy Pitts all summer long, I'm going to be there on Sunday. There's a game at 2 p.m. And it's free.

The best value in the world, really. You can go to Christy Piss. That book is going home with you. It's the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. Maybe your dad will like to read that. Oh, for sure. I'll give it to them on Sunday. Amazing.

Amazing. Okay. By the way, will your father watch the World Cup match at 3 p.m. today, Canada versus Bosnia. 50-50. He's not a big soccer fan. See, he's not a big soccer fan, but he's a big Canada sporting event. fan. I'm going to bet he watches. You'll let me know on your next...

Yeah, he might be watching the Canadian Open. I don't know. I watched him and watched golf a couple times. I walked in a... What do you watch a golf for? I don't know. He just can't watch his golf. It's soothing. Yeah, well, I got to tell you one thing. I'm glad in the way, even though I'm Italian, that

Italy didn't get in, which is kind of... That was going to be the match today. Yeah, it would be mind-boggling. I think it would have looked bad on Canada if Italy got in there. I think the... Blue jersey Jersey is in Toronto Stadium, as they call it. Yeah, it would have been stuff, but it would have been all Italy. I can't wait.

I'm wearing my jersey. I'm just so excited for this match at 3 p.m. The whole world watching. Alfonso Davies will not be playing. This is disappointing, but hopefully we can... Is he injured? He's recovering from a pretty serious injury. So I just hope that we, you know, I don't know.

We want to get out of this group stage here and get to the knockout round. So we have a Qatar, cutter. I've been saying it wrong on my life. Cutter is the next match. If we can get a win and a tie versus these next two, we're going to move on in here. So Switzerland's going to be tough.

What do I know about soccer? I just fake, I know it. But there's comments on the live stream, live.totronomike.com. I'm going to read them super quick. St. Catherine's Chris says, Dawn was must watch on Saturday nights. I don't watch the hockey night

in Canada intermission anymore. And then Moose Grumpy said, the intermission is Kevin and Elliott sniping at each other now and it's not fun or interesting. So I will say, give credit to your father, who had some antiquated ideas about things and, you know, European players

and French-Canadian players and, et cetera, but always interesting. So just don't bore me. Right. Well, again, I think Ralph Melanby's biggest thing was don't turn professional, right? Like, don't turn professional. I think that sometimes those guys,

like I don't like the, when they're doing the kind of inside jokes to each other, because it feels like you're not including me, mean in this conversation. Inside baseball. Right. Okay. One more is the,

I think the sad part about PoppyGate is the likely reason for the drop in the Poppy sales was probably less about immigration and more about the fact that fewer and fewer people carry cash on them. I know this gets me. I know now they think you can tap for a Poppy, which is kind of key.

I'm being honest, I don't carry any cash anymore. No. I do a bit, but I just, I got back from China, man, and there's no cash over there now. Everything's on your phone, right? I had that experience in Copenhagen.

It was, there was no cash. Yeah. You know what, though? I just believe people are forgetting about forgetting it. It's not about cash. I just think people, you know, you ask people what Vimy Ridge is, and I bet you 99% of the people have no idea. It was April 9.

Yeah. Dad and I were at Vimy Ridge one time. We went to do a CBC show on kind of what he, called like a genealogy show and dad wanted one of dad's ancestors was uh i guess it was his great grandfather was there and he was in the tunnels but he got uh he got a he got a wound and got septic and he left before the the battle and another one uh of his at the tramblinka cemetery that dad was shows he died eight days before armist in uh and a gun bat he was a uh an artillery guy and you know you never forget yeah and you know what until you go over to france and you see the rows

of crosses like it's like wow like you don't you don't you don't you don't get to so and vimy ridge if you know to go see that memorial is is is it's unbelievable like it's all inspiring so last question on our way out uh i've loved this very much tim love to love talking oh this is great i had a lot of and you're going to be back because i got more questions but confusion regarding the end of your father's podcast. So I heard the final episode, and it was clear to me that it was a finale. You were talking about, you were talking to your dad about how this is the finale, how many, I don't know, we talked about some analytics and stuff.

And then, Warmington, I think, Worms sort of said, ah, he'll be back next year, or maybe he got that from your dad. But where does that, where did the confusion come from, whether that was the end of Don's podcast or just the season finale? You know, the difference. Yeah, I just think it kind of, that was probably more my fault. I just should have said, yeah, that was the, I should have been much more clear on that. That was, as a-

You confused Joe Warmington. Yeah, I think as- Everybody else got it. As a producer, you know, I should have said that was it. Because dad and I were kind of kicking it around. And, you know, I think after Cindy passed, it just wasn't the same, right? Like, it was, it was Sunday morning, we got together, did the podcast, and then, you know, I had to do a lot of the work, you know, producing these, it's not easy.

So, and then we'd go do it. And then my wife would make, my wife made 313 Sunday dinners or lunches. And, you know, we never really got that as a family before. Like, it was almost backwards. Like, like, mom and dad and Cindy and I would very rarely sit down for dinner together. And so now we kind of had that. And then when Cindy was gone, you know, Del came and tried to help. But it's not, it's not, it wasn't the same.

and we just wanted to keep going on. No, I mean, he put in his years of service. He can rest now. Yeah. He's earned it. Yeah. And it's somebody else. People ask them, oh, can you come in?

You know this? Canada needs to do this. I said, this is time for somebody else to pick up the flag and carry it. Say hi to your dad for me. I will. And again, sorry for the loss of Cindy. It's just so sudden. And it was in July, 20,

24 and yeah I mean she gave you her kidney man yeah you know it's it's and again you know it's one of those things where it was so sudden and now you look back and say geez I wish I could have you know what did I say what was the last thing I said to her and all that but uh I'm sure she's happy she was a best selling author so yeah let's shout out the books here hold on here okay so the Don Cherry story by his daughter Cindy Cherry that was already available but now available. Pretty fresh still. Get a copy. The Don Cherry Story Part 2. Great photo. Cindy

Cherry. Yeah. Great books. I hope people pick it up. Hello to Dell too, who brokered this deal. Don't meet Tim Cherry. Yes. Well, thanks very much. I had a great time. And that brings us to the end of our 1,916th show.

Wow. I saved the best for 1916. Go to TorontoMike.com. for all your Toronto Mike needs. And, of course, be at Great Lakes Brewery, 6 to 9 p.m. on June 25th. That's a Thursday. I got your first beers on the house. I don't even know if I said that earlier,

but Great Lakes will buy you your first beer. And Palma Pasta, good Italian family, the Petrucci family, they're going to send over food for everybody. So come hungry, darling, come to TMLX22. Just hang, say hi to me, have some food, have some drink. It'll be a good time. That's June 25th, 2026. Much love to all who made this possible.

That is Great Lakes Brewery. Don's going to have his Great Lakes beer in the weekend. Palma pasta. Save him a slice of the lasagna, will you? Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Don's got his book. Nick Ieini's Recycle My Electronics.ca. And, of course, Ridley Funeral Home.

See you all Monday when my special guest is Cadence Weapon. That'll be great. See you all then.