Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Tim Wharnsby: Toronto Mike'd #1019

Episode Date: March 22, 2022

In this 1019th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Tim Wharnsby as they talk about his career covering sports for the Toronto Sun, Globe & Mail and CBC, and his new book about the 2002 Canadian Men's Hockey Olympic champions. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and RYOBI Tools.

Now after 50 years, it's time for Canada to stand up and cheer. Stand up and cheer everybody. The Olympic Salt Lake City 2002 Men's Ice Hockey Gold Medal. Canada! Canada! Welcome to episode 1019 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer.

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There's over 260 tools in the system, and it's available at Home Depot. Joining me this week, making his Toronto mic debut, is Tim Warnsby. Welcome, Tim. Thanks for having me, Mike Mike and congratulations on your success I know you recently did your 1000th show that's quite an achievement it only took me 1019 episodes

to get to you my friend but I'm totally psyched about it and thank you for being such a classy guy when I had to let you know that our 11 o'clock zoom was going to be more like 1115 because Donovan Bailey got stuck on the Gardner because of a car crash. And, uh, you know, you were bumped for a, uh, gold medalist at world record holder. You'd think he'd be able to navigate traffic a

little better though than he did in his career. But I guess I understand. I know, I know the traffic scene out there. I told him to get out of the car and run over here. It's funny. That's a gold medal. Were you in Atlanta in 1996? I was not. No. In fact, I know where I was. I used to do a little golf coverage

in the summer. There used to be a big tournament called Heron Point in Ancaster. It's called Acadian Masters. And a bunch of us riders and golfers got together at a restaurant in downtown Hamilton. And the bartender let us know when the race was about to start. So we all got off our table, went over to the bar to watch it on TV. And what a party scene that was when Donovan crossed the finish line first. Absolutely. Don Whitman with that call.

Yeah. Were you friendly with Don? I was, yes. My wife, Kathy, has been a longtime CBC employee behind the scenes. And because of our marriage or friendship, I've been able to meet all the people, including that call you did off the top, Bob Cole. Right.

I think he was one of the first interviews I did for the book because I was just so taken. I didn't really know about his call until I started researching the book. And I saw this online somewhere, like you played it. I played it on YouTube. And I was just really taken by the call. So I called Bob about it. I just wanted to know how did he come up with it. Like a lot of these things are scripted. Yeah.

But Mr. Cole says, no, a long time ago, Foster Hewitt taught him to use his emotion. And I think that's why, Mike, I've always said about Bob, and I think I put a line like this in the book, he's the only hockey announcer I know where you can have your back to the television, but no one to turn around because he had those intonations down perfect. So preparing for this, and again, you've mentioned, so let's mention, here's how we're going to do this. We're going to let people know the name of this book, but this episode will be a, like get to know Tim. And then we're going to transport back 20 years ago to early 2002.

I actually have the perfect song that'll put you in the, you know, February 20, 2002 mode. That'll kind of transition us over here. But when I'm put, I put some clips. So we heard that off the top,

but I have more and I'm listening to these calls of the gold medal game in 2002 Salt Lake City and I'm listening to Bob Cole and Harry Neal and I admit like I'm a Leaf fan so I feel there might be some bias there with in terms of the the playoff memories we have of like the Pat Burns era and then Pat Quinn era but the uh Bob Cole Harry Neal calls that I'll be playing later just reminded me how far and away my favorite duo for calling hockey were those two guys. Oh, for sure. And two totally different guys.

Bob Cole is a very serious man. Doesn't joke around a lot. Harry is the total opposite. And I think sometimes, and again, I was usually down at the rink on Saturday nights, but I'd always tape the games and play them to see what I missed the next day. And, you know, Harry would throw it a one-liner or two and it would just go right over Bob's head. You might not catch, the normal person might not catch that because you just don't know the two of them as well as I do. But it was quite funny.

And that timber of Bob's, we'll talk more when I play these clips later, but that timber, and even like, everything is happening, or whatever he would throw at you. It just captured the moment. And I will say,

a lot of talented people doing play-by-play. Chris Cuthbert is great. We heard him call the golden goal and everything. But maybe it's nostalgia speaking, whatever it is. Bob Cole, if it's a big game, I want to hear Bob Cole's voice. It just gives it that gravita that kicks it up a notch. I love it. Yeah, for sure. And a great man and wonderful life. He was a good athlete himself. Unfortunately, a knee injury took him out of his

possibility of playing hockey. I think he was a good soccer player too. Was he a curler? I feel like he was a good athlete himself. Unfortunately, a knee injury took him out of his possibility of playing hockey. I think he was a good soccer player, too. Was he a curler? I feel like he was a good curler. He curled in the Bonspiel that one year, the Canadian Bonspiel, or what's it called, the Briar. Right. But he also, like, at a young age, he took the job as a porter on a ship that went from

St. John's, Newfoundland, to Halifax, to New York City. So he lived quite the life early on. He talks about, you know, as a young boy or an older teenager, I guess, but going to Broadway, you know, on his day off, waiting for the ship to go back home. And it's quite the life he's had. Now, Tim, this is your show, man. This spotlight's on you, buddy. But I got to say if you would if you could

ever get an invitation to bob i don't know how to reach the man but like hey phone call with toronto mike to just chat about this you know i'm just saying you'd make this uh this old uh podcasters uh day that's a done deal i'll get it done for you oh wow okay speaking of uh greats that have been on toronto'd, I just want to shout out a couple. Is it fair to say that a couple of FOTMs named Scott Morrison and Bob Elliott... By the way, is that Bob

Cole calling you back there? Do I hear a phone? It might be. I'm trying to get some prescriptions ordered. I bet you it's the pharmacy. I was going to say, patch him in. We'll have him talk about the 2002 gold. But I want to shout out Scott Morrison and Bob Elliott. Would you take a moment maybe and talk about

your friends and former colleagues, Scott Morrison and Bob Elliott? For sure. Well, look, I was so fortunate as a young sports reporter to work at the Toronto Sun. So many good people, starting with the guy that hired me,

Wayne Parrish. What a great executive. If there's such a thing as a teenage prodigy in this business, I guess it was him because he was covering a major beat as an 18-year-old in Vancouver, the BC Lions,

and then he eventually made his way east and he was the guy that hired me. But Scott Morris and Bob Elliott, two of my mentors, tops in their beats at the time. there wasn't a trade that didn't break because of them and just great guys and they still remain friends

with me to this day, we often trade emails at night and we're watching the same things, I've been fortunate enough with my semi-retirement here to do a lot of Blue Jays games for Canadian Press. And, you know, it's nice to just see Bob at the odd game or just talk to him because, you know, nobody knows baseball more than Bob Elliott. And I know you've really enjoyed it.

He said to me, I went on there one time with Mike and he said it was only going to be an hour. And I think I got off two hours later. I know that was a long one. You know why? Because we took like a bio break intermission because of course the man was downing diet cokes like it was water yeah it's funny when you see him come uh to a game and or even at the office at the sun back in the day and he would unpack his little briefcase or whatever first would come out about six Diet Cokes and he lays them down there and that might last him an hour

and a half. Then it would be like hey Bob, want to go to the cafeteria? I need some Diet Cokes. And he'd walk down there and he'd get four more or whatever. So he's kept the Coke colon business. I guess yeah, I guess if you're going to be addicted to Coke, that's the one I guess. Shout out to

Peter Gross. Okay. So Bob, I do have I hope I don't butcher this, but Bob Elliott did seed a question with me. You ready for this? Sure. Who is your guru? Well, that's a funny story because Mike Zeisberger, have you got Mike on?

Yeah, I love the guy. So Bob and Mike were both baseball writers for The Sun back in the day. They were covering, I think, the New York Mets, Yankees. Was that a World Series? I think it was. Yeah, yeah, the Subway Series, yeah. And, you know, it's always, you know, one of the great things about The Sun is, you know, you usually win a big event like that.

It's a couple of reporters and a columnist. And, you know, you don't want to step on each other's toes. So, you know, I would say about the seventh inning, you'd sort of confer, like, which way is the columnist leaning? So then the beat guys know that they should take another tact. And I guess Zeisberger and Elliott they both wrote the same thing that game and it was I know it was Mike's fault and if you ever know Mike

he's such a I don't know if I've ever met a guy with a bigger heart and he could tell Bob was really upset Bob doesn't get upset that much so he said to him Bob I'm so sorry. You're my guru.

So that's kind of an inside joke amongst a few of us. Yeah. So Bob told me, and maybe I went too hard on the guru because Bob put a lot of O's in that when he wrote it. That's the way Bob speaks. He also calls me Michael. He likes the full first names when Bob

would he call you Timothy usually idiot we call each other Bob for some reason I don't know where that all started and then he also calls me Rutzy's son so Mike Rutzy another baseball writer

just one of the funniest men I've ever met calls me, uh, Rutz's son. So Mike Rutz, another baseball writer, Toronto son, I just, one of the funniest men I've ever met. And, uh, uh, but an older, like he always looked old, right?

So I know he's going to hate me to say that. And, uh, so he always said, I guess I, I had sort of the reputation of having his sort of sense of humor. So he would always say, you're Rutz's son.

Amazing. All right. So there's a real quick aside here, because you mentioned before I pressed record that you were a big CFNY listener. So tell us what era specifically were you dialed into 102.1? Yeah, from the mid-80s, Mike,

until they changed format. That would have been like around 93, 94? No, before that. So there's two things that happened. There's this time in, I want to say, like 1990 or 89 or something, where they add in like top 40 to try to increase the listenership. So you might hear, I don't know, you might hear Phil Collins or Madonna or something like that, right?

I don't know, you might hear Phil Collins or Madonna or something like that, right? But then in about, I don't know, 91, when Nirvana and Pearl Jam kind of hit, it kind of finds its voice as like alt-rock, if you will, like sort of like grunge alt-rock and stuff. So I'll just, you said mid-80s to that point, so I'm thinking I'm going to just shout out. When was Pete and Geet's? Early 80s to that point. So I'm thinking, I'm going to just shout out. When was Pete and Geet's? Early 80s? Yeah, they're done in 87,

I think. So they're, yeah, they're early to mid 80s. Okay. So here are some people. So what I'm doing here is I'm just promoting the fact that on Friday morning,

I'm dropping a very special episode of Toronto Mike. It's going to be episode 1021. And here are just some of the names on this episode, all original content. We did a special, uh, you know, zoom call for this one.

Uh, David Marsden, Scott Turner, Mars bar, Scott Turner, um, uh, Liz Janik.

Yeah. Um, who else I got on there? Uh, Alan cross, May pots, uhts Fred Patterson who you would have heard doing sports on Pete and Geats

Mike Hannifin I remember did afternoon sports Okay he's in I only recently he's been listening to the program he's probably listening right now but yeah he's in Vancouver now I think he's out on the west coast now Mike Hannifin Mike Stafford was doing news on that program as well program. He's probably listening right now. He's in Vancouver now, I think. He's out on the West Coast now, Mike Hannafin. Mike Stafford

was doing news on that program as well. Go ahead. Just a little story, Mike. Sorry to interrupt. When I went to Ryerson my first year, I was listening to CIPNY. The afternoon drive guy used to be a guy named James Scott. Just passed away.

Did he? Oh, geez, that's too bad. You want to hear this mind blow before you tell that story? James Baby Scott is actually David Marsden's brother. Really? Wow. But David was put up for adoption, so his mom had another child, also

named David, actually, which confuses things. So, yeah, they weren't that close because of circumstances but uh yeah James baby Scott was James was uh David Marsden's brother and James baby Scott was really a David Marsden so all very confusing but it all makes sense when you get the story from David but uh yeah please continue though You were listening to... I was back after school. I'm going to say it was around 5, 5.30. Doing a little studying, but I had CPNY in the background. And he says, this is James Scott broadcasting live today from the

Hard Rock Cafe across from Neaton Center. So I lived about four blocks away. So I went, I wanted to see what this guy looked like, you know. And you never know some of these radio guys. Uh, and, uh, you know, he had this great voice and very like Alan Cross, who I thought was, nobody knew music better than Alan. Right. But I thought James Scott had some good stories when he would introduce songs, you know, from the Smiths or the Cure or, uh, Morrissey. And, uh, so I went down there and I had a beer and just, I just, I, I, I had a beer and just, I just, I watched him.

People watched him, I guess. Probably made him feel a little, who's this creepy guy? But, you know, it was my little brush

with greatness, as I would say, because I thought Stephen Watt was such a good station. Also want to shout out, just so I don't forget him, Ivor Hamilton

is on this. And Danny Elwell. And then more recent people would be like Humble Howard Glassman. Oh, I guess that's 1989, not that recent. But Bob Ouellette, who produced Humble and Fred for a while. And Robbie Jay, who was behind the scenes there. Captain Phil Evans, who was doing promotions there. And I got current morning show host Jay Brody there,

just so we had a taste of the present of CFNY. So this is dropping Friday morning, and I think you're going to dig it, Tim. Yeah, that'd be great. So there's a song, and we're only a few days removed from the first day of spring. That's why this is coming up now. But there's a song I have loved since I first heard it on CFNY. But this is after your era. So we're looking at like 94, I think around 94. And it was on much music quite a bit as well. And I just loved it. And I

play it every first day of spring. So I produce the Humble and Fred show currently, which is a podcast now. And I sent them this song to play and they played like 10 seconds of it. And then let me know they never heard it before and they never heard of it. And it kind of blew my mind like how unaware they could be of a song that I think I associate with the station they were on throughout the 90s. So I'm just going to play a little bit of it and then you can tell me if you've ever heard this song.

You ready? Yep. My friend Don't you sit there and ruminate With your navel to contemplate Oh, it's a beautiful day outside Time's passing you by So I'll bring it down.

Do you know the Gandarvas' First Day of Spring? Well, I've heard that song, definitely. I couldn't tell you the group, but that's from the Soundgarden, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, all those good groups from that era. Absolutely, the 90s alt from that era. Absolutely. The 90s alt-rock, for sure. I always think of you,

you're a Waterloo guy. You're from Waterloo? Yep. And it was tough to get CFNY before I came to Toronto. I tried all kinds of... I would go to a radio shack and get all kinds of

little wires and stuff to put on the back of my little stereo in my bedroom. Some got CFNY better than others. Q107 came in better. Now I'm a John Derringer guy. I really like to listen to John in the morning.

Some days I'd get CFNY, some days I wouldn't. Okay, so help me get you to we talked a lot about the Toronto Sun already here but maybe help me get you to this where does it start for you in terms of becoming a sports journalist

yeah I kind of fell into it by accident Mike you know I actually didn't know what I wanted to do I went to University of Waterloo. Great school. Well, we had two great universities there, Laurier and Waterloo. Laurier was more your phys ed slash business school

back in that day. Now it's a little bit more well-rounded school. I'm sorry, Waterloo was the computers, but kinesiology. I just went in for a general BA at first and then I veered towards kinesiology I just went in for a general BA at first and then I veered towards kinesiology that's a four year

program when I came back for my third year I noticed that the imprint the school newspaper was looking for sports writers or people to cover basketball and hockey and I actually was more of a basketball we had a great basketball team at Waterloo to cover basketball and hockey. And I actually was more of a basketball. We had a great basketball team at Waterloo in the 80s.

And so, but I really was always upset about reading the hockey stories in the imprint the year before because they had the worst hockey team and two of the players would actually write up the stories. And they'd make the 13-2 loss seem like the closest game. I said to the lady that was running the show back in the day, I said, you know, I'd like to cover some of the hockey games. So I got my start there. But you know what I really enjoyed was after the hockey season was over, I do a profile on maybe a cross country runner or a track and field or a golfer. I really like doing the profiles, getting into people's stories. And anyway, you know, I worked at a local golf course and, you know, I kind of thought with the keseology, I wasn't a great golfer, but I was decent enough. I thought maybe I'd like to teach

golf. And I had that keseology background a bit, especially the psychology of sport I've always loved. But one time downtown, I was going to meet some friends at the local bar there called The Lou and I ran into the former sports editor of the weekly newspaper Rick Campbell crossing the street and I was a decent baseball player so he covered some of our games and stuff and he goes hey warns me I see you're writing for the imprint and I I made some crack like, Rick, I didn't know how easy a job you had and stuff like that. And he goes, listen, I'm not saying anything. I'm not blowing up here, blowing your horn here. But when he had moved up his rank now, he's publisher of the entire paper. When our sports writer takes his two week vacation in August, I know you work at the golf course, but would you be willing to work some nights and get some beer money?

And I said, yeah, yeah, for sure. And after I finished that two week stint, we went to lunch and he said to me, you know, you have a future in this business if you want to go into it.

I had no idea. So he told me that he thought Ryerson had the best program at the time. And he said, I'll write a letter but for you for recommendation because it's difficult to get in I had a couple other people help me out with letters I had a nice portfolio between the two papers and I got in and I was lucky enough in between my second and third so I left right I'm sorry left Waterloo I didn't get my bachelor of science in kinesiology but maybe someday I'll go back.

You're never too late. Yeah. And in between the second and third year, I was lucky enough to get an internship at the Sun. And after the second summer, they invited me back. Well, I kept a part-time job there. And I was doing a lot more writing the second summer and at the end of the summer Wayne Parrish surprised me and said uh we're going to need a high school sports reporter

in three weeks if you want the job and I actually had a job lined up Mike to go to Scotland to work at a golf course and it was a program a friend of mine a member at Westmount set up for me he went he was a little bit older than me but he went on the same program a few years earlier and what what it is for a year you work at a scottish golf course you you spend four months in the pro shop four months out on the course amongst the maintenance crew and four months in the clubhouse doing different things like busing tables waiting being a being a receptionist, that sort of thing. So I really had a hard decision because I thought that would be a lifetime experience. But I remember my father, Mike, he said, Tim, these sort of jobs, a lot of it's timing.

You're going to get your foot in the door getting a full-time job at the best sports section in the country at the time. And I still think it's a pretty good sports section. You better take it. You can always go to Scotland or England or whatever later in life. And so that's what happened. That's good advice. You know, grab that bull by the horn, as they say here. That's right.

So you started at The Sun covering high school sports. Does anyone, by the way, there's a lost art. Like I still remember, you know, reading the Star and elsewhere, the high school reports. And it was always exciting. Like, you know, my high school once won the Prentice Cup and you get a full kind of write-up in the paper. But is anybody covered?

Where would you get your high school sports coverage in 2022? Well, yeah, you would hope that each school has its own internet site and does a good job that way. But yeah, you know, Wayne had a great philosophy about that because when I was hired to do the sport, the beat, he made it into a bigger beat. Like every Thursday was a, there was a high school page. So there was a feature, some rankings, you know, that sort of thing.

But even television, I know, sorry to interrupt you there, Tim, but I was going to say, I even remember like, you know, city TV would, you know, would send their sports person to the whatever the big football, the Metro cup or whatever, whatever football game was, even if it's cause I went to Michael power and then we'd have a rivalry with, you know, you named the high school, but if it was St. Mike's versus Michael power, for example, fierce rivalry,

like there'd be media coverage. Yeah, the highest, Greg Manzik. Truth be told, I didn't have a car back in those days, and so I learned the TTC really well, but I would sort of set my week

on Sunday night of what games I wanted to cover, and I would phone Greg Manzik, and I'd tell him because if there was a chance I could get a ride with him and his crew, his producer was Perry. Perry would always go. And it would save me about an hour riding the buses and subways and stuff. So I remember those guys were so good to me.

And then I'd get a ride back to the sun from our photographer who would usually be there. Nice. So, so you cut your teeth covering high school sports. When does this, cause we all think of you in hockey. I know you mentioned a lot of golf and we'll,

we'll touch on golf here, but like what was next for you at the sun after you covered high school sports? I only did one year of high school sports because Wayne wanted the next year to beef up the university sports. And he knew I had a passion for that, being from Waterloo, two great university sports entities there.

His philosophy was high school people would start reading the Sun Sports section because they'd want to see their name in there. They'd want to read about a friend. Same in university sports. So the spiral effect, get them reading when they're younger, and hopefully they could keep reading the Sun when they get older. So I did that for maybe a year or two.

But every once in a while I'd be invited to cover a Leafs sidebar or a Blue Jays sidebar. So I had a taste of the big time those first two or three years. And I think eventually, eventually well you've had steve buffery on yes and i think he even mentioned that i listened to it um that you know you can't always believe what he says because we've always been there and then we when these stories happen then we listen to him tell the story and we thought well that's not really what happened but this is true steve was on the hockey beat one year and he didn't like

it so he dropped off after a year and they were kind of stuck so they that's how i got sort of the third man on the beat that's how i got pushed up there you go so yeah shout out as many of these sun a lot of these sun guys are still there like it seems like you know once you get a lot of these guys hold on which well why not right but uh it? So am I hearing correctly that you'll tune in if a Sun guy, I would say Sun guy or gal, but it's only been Sun guy so far. But if a Sun guy pops on Toronto, Mike, you're going to give that a listen. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, I'll give everything a listen that you do.

I think it's tremendous what you've been able to accomplish. You have a lot of similar interests to me, I guess. So that's why I think it's been so interesting for me. CFNY, city television, that sort of thing. Watch it, buddy. Shout out to the late, great Peter Silverman. Okay, yeah, I love it. So how good is your memory here?

You want to run down the Sun Sports writers at this time? Could you do that? Yeah, sure. Well, 1988 was my first summer there, and I befriended Buffery, Lefkoe, Zeisberger. We all sat kind of in the same area, and I think it was Lefkoe that nicknamed our little section Dissident's Row. Now, I don't think I was a true dissident like those guys were. It

was Frank Ziccarelli, he was in there too. Just a great bunch of guys. They weren't much older than me, so Buff reacted older, but just a great bunch of guys, and they took me under their arms, taught me a lot of stuff. Jim O'Leary was the lead general columnist, and boy, what a talent. You know, there wasn't a – every time you read him, there was no disappointment. And that guy sweated over his columns. You'd see him. And one thing I learned from Jim and Bob and Scott Morrison, the veterans of the department who are so good at their job,

make that extra phone call. You never know what would come about. And, you know, I think that's, you know, when we get into more about my book, I did make that extra phone call and some stories I lucked out on. I had no idea. Don't worry, we're going to fast track to that book soon. No, I know. I know you meant that just in passing,

but it's funny because sometimes I will have a guest on who's excited to talk about their new project and I'll like linger on older stuff. And then at some point they'll be like, you know, and we always call that, it's what when Gino Vannelli was here, I got stuck on black cars because it hit me at the right time when I was listening.

At the time, I was hearing it on 680 CFTR and Black Cars was a big hit, 85, I think. So while you're listening to CFNY and cool music, and in 85, I was listening to Black Cars on CFTR, but he basically came out and he just said, can we get off Black Cars already? So this is sort of that moment. said, can we get off black cars already? So this is sort of that moment. But you're at, so why do you leave the sun? Because you end up at the Globe and Mail.

So why do you end up there? Well, there was a little step in between. The NHLPA called me out of the blue. A guy named Devin Smith, he's still there, and said, hey, listen, I'm changing. Devin was the long-time media relations guy at NHLPA. He had a stint with the Vancouver Canucks, too, before that. That's how I got to know Devin. He's kind of from my neck of the woods. He's from Cambridge. And I kind of knew his dad was a great hockey coach. He was an assistant coach in the NHL for a long time and usually worked for Mike Keenan.

But Devin said, hey, listen, I just want to feel you out. You always had sort of an interest in my job, and I'm going to be moving on to run the charity for the organization. Do you have any interest in my job? And once I found out what it paid, yes, I did. So I went in to see Bob Goodenow, and I was always kind of one of those people that I like to try new things. And I must admit, it didn't really work out for me. It only

lasted 10 and a half months. It just wasn't my cup of tea. I don't really have a specific reason why. However, I think one of the reasons why is Steve McAllister an old friend of mine took over the global male sports and he was looking for a number two guy and again a new opportunity Mike to try something that I didn't know I would be able to do be in management

that sort of thing at a relatively young age but you know I even said to Steve I wasn't looking to move on financial people but if I come, I wasn't looking to move on from the NHL paper, but if I come and I don't like it, can we give it a time frame, like three, four years, and then maybe we can find a spot for me to go back and be a reporter. And one of the things Steve said, and the Golden Mail never followed through

on its promise, they were going to make it back into that really good sports section they used to have in the 70s, right? They were going to increase the space because it was such a talented group of people there too. And that never happened. So it was kind of boring for me to come in at night. I would come in around 3 o'clock and work until 11 or 12. And it was kind of boring for me because everything was pretty much laid out and ready to go. Right.

Because we only had a two or three page sports section. And half of one of those pages was the scoreboard pages. Right. So, you know, there wasn't much to do. So I went back to reporting that in 2004, just in time for that canceled season in the NHL. Right. Yeah, that's what happened there. And in total, I looked at your, like, it's like this would be on the back of your hockey card,

but you've been to three Winter Olympics. Which three Winter Olympics? Salt Lake City. Good. Vancouver and Sochi. Okay, we're going to, spoiler alert, we're about to talk more about Salt Lake City here. 11 Stanley Cups, a World Championship,

17 World Junior Championships, 13 Memorial Cups, and 13 Stanley Cups, a World Championship, 17 World Junior Championships, 13 Memorial Cups, and 13 University Cups. Is that what we're calling it, the University Cup? Well, no, I think it's called the Dave Johnson University Cup. And I had a little hand in that, because I'd lost my job at the

CBC because they lost Talking in Canada, but then they hired me back to do some part-time freelance stuff and bigger stories. So I did one on Dave Johnson and, you know, our former governor general from Sault Ste. Marie, good hockey player,

Harvard, played at Harvard, had an opportunity to try out for the Boston Bruins, but because he was a Rhodes scholar to go to Oxford, he took that instead. But he was the, one of the inspirations for a movie in the early 70s called Love Story. That's the Ryan O'Neill.

I can't remember the girl. She had cancer, remember? She died. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah. Ali McGraw. What's her name? Ali McGraw.

Ali McGraw. Yeah, this means love means never having to say you're sorry. That's good. Very good. So the writer of that book, it was a book first, Alan McGraw. Yeah, this means love means never having to say you're sorry. That's good. Very good. So the writer of that book, it was a book first, was Dave Johnson's either roommate or dorm mate. Wow.

And Dave was captain of the team. So there is one guy that plays, not the name Dave Johnson, but he told me that whole story. But anyway, it became a real pop. but the captain told me that whole story, but anyway, it became a real pop. Oh, Tim,

we lost, we lost you for a second. So you're going to have to pick up this story. Tim, you there, the joys of the zooms here. So it was quite neat. Tim, you got to tell that story again because you actually,

uh, froze right after you set it up. So give me that last sentence again. So a couple of years later, U Sports, as it's called now, decided to rename the University Cup the Dave Johnson University Cup. And they had a big ceremony. It was at the, I can see it from my window here, the top of the Globe and Mail building. I'm just east of on King Street. And there was a big ceremony there

and I was invited and it was quite something to meet Dave in person after talking to him on the phone. And he was very thankful for the story all those years later. And of course, there's also a Waterloo connection there, Mike.

He was the president of Waterloo for a while. Okay, here's the way we're connected with the Waterloo thing is that as we speak, my oldest son is living in Waterloo. He's going to Laurier. He's going to be touched by a great city. I'm sure he's come back a better person on weekends for you.

The problem, not the problem, but I guess it's everyone's problem, but all his life in Waterloo so far has been pandemic, so we haven't got the full like, yeah, but now that things are opening up, I'm planning actually soon when there's a nice day on opening up, I'm planning actually soon

when there's a nice day on a weekend, I'm going to bike to Waterloo. And then, yeah, that's the plan. I don't know if I can bike back. So my wife and my other kids are going to kind of drive there and then we're going to all eat together. We're going to spend the day together

and I'll drive back. I think that's the plan. So I'll be there soon here. You mentioned you're in Toronto right now which we're so close yet so far because had you made the trek to the southwest corner of the city,

here's what you would be leaving with. You ready? Yep. And then we're going to end up in 2002 once I conclude this teasing here which is to tell you I would be giving you some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. Good brewery, yeah. We would have taken

care of you and maybe one day, eventually we will hook up and I could take care of you. Palma Pasta, they're in Mississauga and Oakville. We'd have a lasagna for you to take home. You'd be enjoying some delicious, authentic Italian food. Palma Pasta. StickerU.com.

They made these amazing Toronto Mike stickers, and you'd have one of those. I know you've been waiting your whole life for a Toronto Mike sticker. Absolutely. Ridley Funeral Home actually have a flashlight. It's a flashlight that would keep you safe, Tim, because you never know when you need some light.

So thank you, Ridley Funeral Home, for that. Canna Cabana has a toque for you, keeping you warm. Cannacabana.com will not be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories. Go to cannacabana.com and become a member of the Cabana Club. Be first in the know when there's a sale going on. But again, they will not be undersold. And I want to shout out our newest sponsor here, actually. So, Ryobi.

There's a great new episode of Toronto Mic recorded Friday with Becky from Ryobi where we kind of dive into the details. My wife actually makes a cameo appearance in that episode, which is always fun. But Ryobi has the great system and the OnePlus system and all FOTMs who have any work to do around the house know that you get a Ryobi tool from Home Depot.

So Tim, I wouldn't be giving you the drill, but I got to get some swag from Ryobi to get to you there. So we'll take care of you. You know what you need now is a sponsor for delivery. Yes, that's right. Well, that's me. You know, sometimes if somebody's here and then I find out during the episode

they're a vegetarian and I realize I only have meat lasagna, I end up biking over the vegetarian lasagna from Palma Pasta. So done that many times. Maybe on his way in one night for a baseball game, I can get the guru to drop off and pick up my swag. Very good. Very good. Now, I said I had a song and I don't have it loaded up.

So I'm actually going to go to YouTube. This is a song that brings people back to February 2002. How did we say it? 2002, I guess, is how we said it. Yep. Tired of living like a blind man. I'm sick of sight without a sense of feeling. And this is how you remind me. This is how you remind me of what I really am. This is how you remind me of what I really am.

It's not like you to say sorry. Our worlds we know a different story? This time I'm mistaken for handing you a hardwood brinket, and I've been wrong, I've been down to the bottom of every bottle, these five

words in my head scream out we haven't fun yet I don't think, regardless of your musical tastes, I don't think there was a bigger jam on the planet in February 2002 than Nickelback's How You Remind Me. It was practically our national anthem for a while. It was absolutely everywhere.

But is that your cup of tea, or would that be too mainstream for you? No, I don't mind Nickelback at all. I know they get a lot of criticism but I don't know why. Because they're so big. I think that's like, you're so big. So we always have to support a Canadian

but just a little connection there to 2002 because it wasn't this song but one of their songs, Wayne Gretzky, appeared in one of their videos. Oh, really? I love these fun facts. Might be a star or something, that song,

something like that. Rockstar. Rockstar, yeah. That's a great video because you have to really be Canadian because Gretzky's the only, if you're not, will be the only person you really see in it, but there are some Second City people in there. I have to go check that out, actually.

I never hated on Nickelback because, you know, there's some second city people in there. I have to go check that out. Actually. I am, uh, I don't, I never hated on Nickelback because, uh, to be blunt, maybe a bit of a guilty pleasure, but not even that guilty. I've actually seen them live twice. I, I dig it, especially the early stuff. Anyways, that was a huge hit in February, 2002. So Tim, how we'll approach this. I have some clips and we're going to get into, and anytime you have a fun fact or a mind blow, but Why don't we start by, can you give us the name of your book?

Sure. It's called Gold. The subtitle is The Inside Story of How Wayne Gretzky Got to I have it here. You want me to read it? Since you don't remember the subtitle. It's Gold, how Gretzky's men

ended Canada's 50-year Olympic drought. Yeah. So I originally wanted to call the book Golden Men because I love that movie, Monumental Men. Right. You know, how they got all the artwork back from the Nazis and it's just a great movie. But the publisher, you know, this was a time, you know, just after Me Too, and plus our women set the stage that term. I forget the name. She's no longer there, but the person at Triumph, the publishing company, she, you know, knew this or put this forth, and they were right,

and I'm glad they changed the title, and I like the way it all worked out. So it's been 50 years, and, you know, I remember, you know, I'm of an age where I remember 2002 vividly. I had a child when this gold medal game happened. And we're going to get into some details. But I feel like Sid the Kid's goal in 2010 has stolen, like, spotlights and memories from the 2002 gold. Like I'm not sure, uh, 2002 is getting its,

uh, proper respect and, uh, glory. So I thank you for writing this book. Well, I, you know what,

Scott Morrison actually, when, um, he kind of had a hand in pushing me to this project, but you know, he had a great line. He said about this team, it's,

it's Canada's unforgotten or forgotten team, I should say. Right. Because, but he had a great line about this team. It's Canada's forgotten team, I should say. Because we all think about 72, that was the first one, especially if you're my age, you still can remember that one. Of course, there was 87, Gretzky to Lemieux. But 2002,

why I thought it was so special, Mike, is not only that this was recently the 20th anniversary, but the end of the 50-year drought for Canadian men's hockey gold. But this was a real downward time in Canadian hockey. So they lose the 96 World Cup. It was changed, the Canada Cup to World Cup of Hockey. First time in a long time that they hadn't dominated that tournament.

Then they go to the 98 Olympics, the first time the NHLers are allowed. Not only do they get stopped by Dominic Hasek and Czech Republic in the semifinal, they can't beat Finland in the bronze. Remember they just mailed that game in? Absolutely. I watched that from White Rock, British Columbia. Actually, I didn't even watch the bronze. Like many Canadians, I said, you know,

just once we lost to Czech Republic, I tapped out, like just so disappointed though. So thoroughly disappointed that we lost that game in Nagano. Yeah, it was such a downward period that even the World Junior Hockey Program, or Program of Excellence as it was called back then, they didn't like they just dominated most of the 90s but all of a sudden 98 they finished like they remember they lost to

Kazakhstan right they didn't win they didn't win again until 2005 when Sidney Crosby came on the scene so they had a long drought too but there was a big summit in 19 in the summer of 99 like what's wrong with our game uh you know Gretzky was a speaker at it. He came up with a few things, something that he still talks to this day. Don't go to hockey schools in the summer. Take on another sport. Become more of a natural athlete, that sort of thing. Right. So now 2002 rolls around.

A lot of pressure on this group because of the failure in 98, the summit, all this stuff was building up. It just happened to be 50 years since the Edmonton Mercury's were the last team to win gold. And it didn't start well. So it got worse. It didn't start well. They got blown out by Sweden in that first game, 5-2. They looked very middling against Germany in the second game.

They just eked out a win there. And the Czech Republic tied them in the third game. So going into the medal round, there was nothing to believe that this team was going to change the fortune of our country. Well, here's the first clip I'm going to play. You've mentioned this gentleman's name, the great one. Let's just give this almost a minute, but it's worth the listen. Let's listen to this. You look like you're on the edge of your seat

when they were reviewing that goal. Well, it was clearly a goal. I mean, there's nothing to review. I don't know what we're reviewing. They couldn't skate with us in the third period. They should have had four or five penalties, hooking, holding, tripping. We outplayed them in the third period. They talk about we're not a skating team, we can't move the puck, we have no finesse.

That's crazy. We outskated him in the ground in the third period question there should have been four or five penalties blatant penalties and should have been two or three suspensions um am i hot yeah i'm hot because i'm tired tired of people taking shots at canadian hockey and uh when we do it, we're hooligans. And when Europeans do it, it's okay because they're not tough or they're not dirty. That's a crock of crap. Watch your language, Wayne.

Holy smokes. Tim, where do I go with this? Maybe, can we step back before we talk about that press conference and how did Wayne Gretzky get the gig? So Wayne puts this team together in 2002, right? Yeah, great story about that, Mike. I'm glad you brought that

up because a lot of the credit has to go to Bob Clark. A lot of people don't like Bob Clark. I've always gone along with him really well and one of my favorite things on the road back in the day in Philadelphia, he always wanted me to stop by his box and say hi. And usually he'd give me some kind of, like he was very emotional.

He'd give me some kind of story. He would, you know, sound off on somebody. But so we had a good relationship. So I started there when I started researching all this. I phoned Bob because I knew he had sort of produced a debriefing sort of paper on what went wrong in Nagano. And he was the general manager of that team along with Bob Ganey. a debriefing sort of paper on what went wrong in Nagano, and he was the general manager of that team along with Bob Ganey.

And so among his many recommendations to Bob Nicholson, who was then in charge of Hockey Canada, was get Wayne Gretzky involved in the 2002 team in any way you can. The story is this. Every morning in the Athletes' Village, Bob Ganey and Bob Clark would meet for a coffee, talk about what's going on in the Olympic tournament, maybe talk about other things that's going on around in the hockey world, the NHL, that sort of thing. And occasionally, and many times than less, Gretzky would join them.

And both Bobs were blown away by it. You know, they knew this guy was one of the greatest players ever and still at the top of his game in 1998, but they were blown away by his hockey knowledge of other teams, players, rosters, systems, coaches, and so that's why Clark said to Nicholson, get Gretzky involved in any way you can. So the problem was, Mike, is, you know, as usual,

Gary Bettman tried to hold the NHLPA hostage for the next Olympics, and they really didn't finalize it until two years, or less than two years before 2002. The deal was struck at the 2000 World Championships in May. So as soon as word came and Bob came back from the, uh, the world championships, he phoned Gretzky. He wanted to feel him out. Gretzky's great line to him was I'll do anything. Bob will even be the stick boy. So he, he went down to, uh, California, Sherman Oaks. That's where Gretzky was living at the time. And, uh, um, they, they spent two days

together and Bob knew about halfway through, this was his guy to run the team and that. So they started talking about things like coaches and stuff like that. And anyway, Wayne got the job. And there was criticism. You know, this guy had never been a general manager before. And there was lots of guys with good resumes out there.

But obviously, he did a great job. Yeah, and lessons learned from 98, right? There's a guy I'm going to drop his name right now. Canadian hockey fans and hockey fans know the name Rob Zaminer, right? Great guy. For sure, but

he's on the team because of a role he would play on the team, not because he's one of... Am I right that Iserman was not named to the 98 team? No, he was on the team, not because he's one of... Am I right that Iserman was not named to the 1998 team? He was on the team. Okay, he was on the team. Messier, maybe it was Messier.

I could go into more, and this is in the book, more of what Clark didn't... the mistakes he admitted he made. Go ahead. He said, number one, I should have never named Eric Lindros captain. Now, we all know, in hindsight, the feud that developed between the two of them,

but Bobby had his reasons why he said that, and he felt that way before the feud. And it was just that Gretzky was still very much the leader of this group, right? Right. A lot of them had been together in 96 and other tournaments, and Lindros was just a little too young.

And so it was kind of like some guys were looking to Gretzky that tournament for leadership, and then there were some guys looking to Lindros. It just didn't work out. So that was number one. Number two, you mentioned Messier. Bobby said, I made a huge mistake in not bringing Mark Messier. You know, he wasn't the same player as he was in 94 with New York Rangers or with the

Oiler teams. But he said, Bobby had a great line. He says, we didn't need a season out of Messier. We needed 10 days out of him. And he was still, know we needed his leadership he could he could he could have played a great fourth line role on that team uh so you know he he thought that was one of those don't take any pluggers don't try to build an nhl roster you know there was zamner there was recce right there was um shane corson there was just take the best talent and then fit them in slots and get them to buy in. That sort of thing. And then the other one that always pops into my mind, he admitted he made a mistake taking Scott Stevens over Scott Niedermeyer. Because Scott Niedermeyer, probably the best skater in the game at that time.

I know he definitely was in 2002. And he could just lug the puck out and do so many things on that big ice surface. So those were some of the things that Clark said. How did Maple Leaf head coach Pat Quinn get the coaching gig in 2002? Yeah, another really good story. And I didn't know this until I started talking to people and that. So one of the things at the end of the first day of the so-called summit between Nicholson and Gretzky down in California was,

okay, you put four names on a list for coach, and I'll put four names on a list. Well, the only one they had different was on Nicholson's list, he had Pat Quinn, and Gretzky did not. And so they read each other's lists, and some of the usual suspects were on there, like Ken Hitchcock and Jacques Martin. I don't know if Scotty Bowman was on there or not,

because he had just won two Stanley Cups, basically, with the Red Wings, and still was coach of a pretty good team. So Gretzky said, I see you have Pat Quinn. You know, that's not a name I would have watched for your belief of that. And Nicholson's from British Columbia originally. Pat, he knew Pat very well. Pat has helped him out in some of the programs they try to institute at Hockey Canada. And he just thought the world of Pat,

and he thought that he would be a good guy for a tournament of this caliber because you need kind of a player's coach. So they just kind of left it at that. But then the next day they went and played golf. Gretzky was living on a golf course at the time. And a neighbor of Gretzky's joined them by the name of Russ Cortinal. Remember that name? Oh my God, the Hound Line.

Yes, exactly. So Russ, you know, Russ played with Gretzky briefly in New York and they were becoming good friends because of their, they were next-door neighbors. After the round of golf, they retired to the grill room at the club for a little lunch. He shows Russ the two lists of coaches. He says, of all these coaches on here, and I guess there were only five different coaches, something like that anyway, who would you take? And right away he said, Pat Quinn. And he goes, oh, I guess you had him out in Vancouver for a brief time.

And he goes, yep, only six games in the playoffs. He replaced Rick Lee like really late in the season that year. But I had him as general manager too, and my brother had him as coach and general manager a lot longer than I did. And I'll tell you what, Wayne, there were only two people in my long career, and I played for a lot of teams, which he did, and there were only two people that I really respected because they treated our players like men, not boys, like men.

They let us go our own way. They let us be creative. And that's Serge Savard in Montreal and Pat Quinn in Vancouver. And he said something similar to what Nicholson said. You're going to have a lot of egos on this team. And you don't want to coach. You know, Mike Keane was always criticized for being too military-like on some of those Canada Cup teams.

You want to coach a player's coach, and Pat will be a great guy for this short-term event. Sort of like a Cito Gaston. Exactly. Be a player's coach and let these all-stars be all-stars. And Pat Quinn, it turns out, with that collection, and you mentioned earlier, get the top guys uh were there any surprises when they when they put together this lineup uh for 2002 and uh again it's all fresh in my head right now because i've been

uh basically i went through the whole game still the gold medal game against uh the usa i i went through it recently but Were there any surprises? Was anyone left out causing controversy at the time? I can't remember any glaring omissions. Joe Thornton was the big one because he was up for consideration for the original roster. I think he was the first

if a guy got injured, I forget what they call that list. Reserves? Yeah, something like that. He was the first taxi squad, I forget what they call that list, but he was on the... Reserves? Yeah, the reserves. Yeah, something like that. He was first on the taxi squad, I think it was called. He was first on that list, but what happened, Mike, was when they named the team, I'm going to say it was around December 13th, 15th, something like that. I think Thornton went on like a 20-game point streak or something like that.

So leading up to the Olympics, there were a lot of injuries between that naming of that roster and then when the Olympics finally started. And so everybody thought, well, why doesn't Lemieux, because Lemieux was one of them, why doesn't he just step aside and get Thornton in there and that sort of thing. But anyway, there was some controversial ones just because of the scenarios at the time. Eric Lindros, he got in the

dispute with the Flyers and asked for a trade and being the stubborn guy Bobby Clark is, he made Lindros sit out that entire year. So he went into that first, sorry, the Olympic year having not played for an entire season. Ditto for Mike Pecco. You know, Pecco had early in his career had developed into one of the best defensive forwards, hard hitting, good penalty killer, great skater, perfect for Olympic hockey. But again, he settled an entire year because he requested a trade from the Sabres. Right.

And then probably the most controversial one was Theo Fleury. Theo was having a decent year for the Rangers, but then all of a sudden, abruptly, Theo was having a decent year for the Rangers but then all of a sudden abruptly just after the trade deadline left the team because he stepped back into his substance abuse problems he actually has a great story about how

that summer he got a sponsor, he was living in Santa Fe, New Mexico and all of a sudden on his cell phone he sees Wayne Gretzky's number come up and hello Wayne, yeah, Theo can you make it to orientation camp And all of a sudden on his cell phone he sees Wayne Gretzky's number come up. And hello, Wayne? Yeah. Now, Theo, can you make it to orientation camp in a few weeks in Calgary for the Olympic team?

And Theo was floored. He thought his international duty was done for Canada because of the situation he was in. And Gretzky had some good thoughts about that. You know, he said, when I played for the Oilers and the Kings, the guy I hated to play against the most was Theo Fleury. And I know what energy this guy can bring in short spurts and how much it can mean to Team Canada. And you know what? Theo sucked it up for that and really played well.

In fact, you know, everybody thinks that Gretzky's rant turned it around for Canada. Gretzky credits Theo Fleury for setting up Joe Neuendijk for the late game goal against the Czech Republic to get that point and get things rolling going in the medal round. Because like he said in that rant that you just played, they played really well in that third period, but weren't getting rewarded with offense.

And, you know, sometimes these tournaments, Canada's had a history of not scoring, and it just builds and builds and builds. And, you know, they kind of broke out because of that goal and played really well the last three games. Tim, I'm glad you brought us back to the rant. Yes, I played that okay. I actually watched the entire Wayne Gretzky press conference, and I watched it all.

And then I took the one minute where he talks about, I'm hot. First of all, it's almost like an iconic Canadian moment when Gretzky tells you he's hot. And he says, crock of crap. And it's really like, that was like when you watch like uh documentaries and things about the summit series and then uh you uh you know you see uh what's who's the rangers guy um who's who's the guy who goes on the i should know this he had 76 goals in a season but it was before my time but phil esposito, that's who I'm digging for here. And you hear his speech, and it's like, yeah, that's your moment.

That Gretzky press conference, even though he gives credit to Fleury, as he should, but quite the moment, really, in this tournament at Salt Lake City. It was, and a lot of people thought it was staged and that sort of thing. But, you know, 20 years later, Gretzky said it wasn't staged. He spoke from the heart. He was very frustrated. You know, he was a bit of a whiner when as a player with referees, you remember some of those, you know, always whining people. And sure, there's a little, there's a great postscript to that story. You know, it's funny, I didn't think Wayne would call me, but he finally

did. And, you know, I promised him only 20 minutes. And I always, when I always promise people 15, 20 minutes, I always tell them, okay, 20 minutes are up. 100% of them usually stay on and keep talking. And Wayne probably stayed on for another 20 minutes, but he kept saying, well, can I tell you one more story? You know, that sort of thing. And one of these one more stories was the next day after the rant, he comes out of the building and he's going to the team bus and there's somebody waiting for him to express their displeasure with his rant. And it's referee Bill McCreary. Now, he didn't mention Bill by name in the rant,

but he said the referee was poor and stuff well Bill's daughter Melissa I think she was 11 at the time back in her elementary school in Guelph, Ontario was getting quite the hard time from some of her classmates

who were Olympic hockey fans and listening to Gretzky's rant and they were saying your dad's a cheater. So it was a very tough day for poor Melissa. Wow. And Bill's wife rang Bill in Salt Lake City to tell him what happened. And so he didn't, he just thought he had to address it with Gretzky. You know, what specifically were you, you know, upset about my refereeing?

He wanted to tell Gretzky the story about his daughter. And he said he expected a confrontation, maybe a verbal spat. He didn't expect a physical confrontation. So Gretzky just was so taken aback by it, and he was upset that this had happened. He offered to call the school to tell the boys to lay off Melissa. Yeah, And so, you know, McCreary, and this is a, you know, we, we always have these expectations when things like this happen, but you know, all of a sudden McCreary didn't know what to say. Like what a classy guy.

So he just sort of ended the conversation with, okay, well, thanks Wayne for understanding. I just wanted you to know the weight of your words how far they carried yesterday and what had happened back in Guelph you know there's a nice ending to this story because at the time Bill McCurry was the best referee in the game and

so he reffed the semifinals and he reffed the quarterfinals, semifinals and in the final he thought I'm not going to be able to referee because there was a double IHF rule at the time. You could not referee a final game or a gold medal game if your home country is involved. But the American players all wanted McCreary,

the best referee in the game, to ref that game. So they went to the general manager, Lou Lamorello. And so when you go to the meeting, make sure McCreary the best referee in the game, to ref that game. So they went to the general manager, Lou Lamorello, and said, when you go to the meeting, make sure McCurry's the referee. So since that, the rule's been changed now. If both teams agree on the referee, that's what happens. And Bill says, after the

game, 13 Americans came up to him and shook his hand, saying what a great job he did in that final game. So, there you go. Love it so much here, but here, I'm gonna, a great job he did in that final game. So there you go. Love it so much here, but here I'm going to, I got to get us to the gold medal game. And again,

people, the book is called gold, how Gretzky's men ended Canada's 50 year Olympic drought. And you can buy it right now, right, Tim. So we can, you know,

if you want all the stories, all the detail, it's, it's right there waiting for you. Shout out to Richard Marks. So I'm going to play. Here's what I'm going to do. So I wanted to play Gretzky's rant there to kind of warm us up.

Remind me, who did Canada play in the semis? Finland. Oh, no, sorry, Belarus. Quarterfinals were Finland. Again, great. Canada played a really smart game, but they only scored two goals. They beat them 2-1. But then the offense broke out against Belarus. Remember it? Canada played a really smart game, but they only scored two goals. They beat them 2-1.

But then the offense broke out against Belarus. Remember? Belarus upset Sweden in the quarterfinals. Yeah, what a surprise. I do remember, because I remember, I really wanted this. Tommy Sala's forehead and rolled down his back. Right, right.

Of course. I remember as a hockey fan and a proud Canadian, the 50-year drought, I was well aware of it, even though the best on best only started in 98. But I was actually, I was devastated by 98. It felt like when the Jays collapsed in 87 at the end of the season, like I had that, like I couldn't believe it. And here we are, 2002 Salt Lake City.

And I mean, I'm, you know, we got, you know, you got, sorry, I almost said Gretzky, but no, Gretzky wasn't playing. But you had Mario Lemieux and Joe Sackick and Steve Iserman. And, you know, you mentioned Lindros. And then, you know, the, oh, Nguyen Dijk and Fleury. And just what a, you know, and even these young guys that were showing up like Shimon Gagne was on that team, right?

And Jerome McGinley? And, uh, uh, Jerome McGinley. And, and I mean, Holy smoke. They weren't, they weren't the players they ended up being at the end of their careers.

They were still making their way in the NHL, but boy, did they contribute. Absolutely. So here, let's get a taste of the game here. And then we'll talk about the gold medal game against the USA. So let's listen to our,

uh, Canada's first goal. Bob Cole. We'll take it from here. Nearing the 15-minute mark of the first, this long pass. A clear 15 feet wide with a shot. Comes off the boards, there's Mario Lemieux.

Down with Correa and up to the fence from Kroner. Gets the zone, Kroner passes in. A play by Correa! But what a play by Mario Lemieux to fake receiving the pass and allowing it to roll into Correa! But what a play by Mario Lemieux to fake receiving the pass and allowing it to roll into Correa. What a goal that was. It's a one-one tie.

Pronger makes the nice pass to Correa. Lemieux brings it in. Correa takes the pass. It goes right through the legs of Lemieux. The pronger pass right to Correa. And he's got Richter out of the net. Richter plays further out of the net than most goalies. And cross-ice passes.

He's got about three feet further to go to cover the far side of the net. I get goosebumps. So I spent the morning. Sorry, right back to you, Tim, but I spent the morning with a guy who I watched in 96 give me goosebumps two Saturday nights in a row from Atlanta. I'm watching here in Toronto. The moment is tattooed in my brain.

And this gold medal game against the USA, same deal, like same goosebumps even listening to this 20 years later. Yeah, I know. I've watched that game now so many times, especially when I was doing the book, just to make sure I could remember all the details in that. You know, one thing I kept bringing up, because we've talked about how, or I think you brought it up, Mike,

about how Sidney Crosby's goal in Vancouver kind of took away from this team. Right. And I brought this up to a lot of the guys. I said, do you think this team doesn't get the recognition because you didn't have a Paul Henderson moment or even a Daryl Sittler moment in 76 Canada Cup overtime winner or the

Gretzky to Lemieux in 87 and they said we had a great goal and they always bring up that goal and it was dramatic because Canada got off to a great start in that game but I can't remember if it was Doug Waite somebody made a great start in that game, but I can't remember if it was Doug Waite. Somebody made a great play. Doug Waite.

Early in the season. Yeah, he dove and punched the puck out in the neutral zone, and Amante sped in and then scored. And it was just a real fluky thing because Canada had the puck in the U.S. zone for the entire first seven or eight shifts. Right. And so, you know, that can sometimes break your back when something like that happens.

And then all of a sudden Lemieux makes this great play. And you know what's funny is a lot of people don't remember that. They think, like, Lemieux didn't even get an assist in that goal. Well, he actually did because he made a good play in the neutral zone to get the puck to Pronger to start the play. And then just a five-year. And Korea just said, you know, for some reason, I knew Lemieux was going to do that.

And because he let it go through his legs, it throws Richter. And basically, Correa had an open net to shoot at. Absolutely. And lest we forget, we never even mentioned who was in net for Canada, but Brodeur basically was fantastic. And we were looking for who would step up. Because who was it? Was it Cuj, but Brodeur basically was fantastic. And we were looking for who would step up. Because who was it? Was it Cujo, Brodeur?

Who were the goalies we brought to Salt Lake City? Cujo, Brodeur, and Belfort. Cujo got the start in that first game. And, you know, if you look at all five of those goals, they were off the rush, odd man rushes. He couldn't be blamed, but Canada wasn't ready. And, you know, all the players had different theories. And I thought I really liked Jacques Martin's theory the rush, odd man rush. He couldn't be blamed, but Canada wasn't ready. All the players had different theories.

I really liked Jacques Martin's theory the best. As a coach, he went into the playoffs every year thinking, well, I hope my players are ready for this because you have to bring your game up a couple levels in the playoffs. He just didn't think that because it was in the middle of the season that the Canadian bunch wasn't ready to elevate their play because they were basically going in the playoffs on February 10th, I think it was. But Adam Foote, who was such an underrated leader on this team,

according to Pat Quinn, because I talked to him many times in Toronto, and that's one of the players he came away very impressed with, was Adam Foote. And Adam thought that half the team got in because they played two days before. It was a very busy day in between before the game. They had to get all their credentials, get used to the Olympic Village,

go to a practice, had a video session, had a team dinner. By the time they got to bed that night, they were exhausted. And they just had nothing left to play the next game. And after that, Pat Quinn, the practices were just really leisurely skates. And he just left it up to the players to be ready and mentally prepare. And that's what happened. Okay.

So if you remember this game and people jog your memory, you're right, it lacks. So that does help the... Well, 2010 is on home soil, so we should point out that helps you. But the golden goal, there's nothing like that overtime of a winner-take-all, right? Like this is...

Yes, for sure. Especially when your team scores. So you're right. Now, it was 2-2 Canada-USA, 2-2 when this happened. Neuendijk on now with Joe Sackick on the left as Pat Quinn tries to get some firepower going in there for Canada. Jovanovsky and Blake are the two defensemen, and Aguila is the other forward.

Neuendijk comes up, back for Jovanovsky. He gets set, flipped itpped it over for Sakic. Comes in. Shot. Scores! Joe Sakic faked the pass and took the shot on the short side. And Sakic gives Canada a 3-2 lead. What a play by Joe Sakic.

That puck hit something on the way in. It may have been an American defenseman. But we know Joe Sakic's got one of the best wrist shots in the National Hockey League. Let's see whether it goes in. It hit somebody. It went in. It may well have hit Brian Leach

because it went back, changed directions. But Sackett can shoot it and beat you from there. 3-2 Canada. Wow. Okay. Again, just hearing who's on the ice and you're like, what a team, what a great team. But that would prove to be the game-winning goal.

But that was a big one, to put it mildly. That's one of my favorite stories about Joe Sackett on this team. One of my favorite people. He really got behind this project. In fact, I was telling some of my friends on the weekend that Joe actually contacted me about two, three weeks after I did a couple interviews with him, and he said,

Tim, can you send me all the quotes that I gave you? I want to just make sure they're right. This is such an important team to me and such an important time. So I sent them all. It took me a while to go through and get to all the quotes, and I sent them all to him, and he said perfect. I don't want to change anything. But, you know, that just

shows you how much, but he was the best player in the world at the time. He was coming off a Stanley Cup win with Colorado. I think he won the Hart Trophy that year. He was healthy. Unlike Lemieux and Eijerman, he was healthy. But my favorite story, I'm getting around to this in a long-winded way, but after the first game, Quinn decides to

put the Lions back into the blender and mix them up. So he started the tournament playing on a line with Lemieux and Eisenman. What a three grouping, right? Wow. The next day, he shows up to to practice and he's on a line with Simon Gagné and Jerome McGinley. And Jerome is, I don't know if you've had an opportunity to talk to Jerome, but he's so humble, Mike. Never.

Like for such a superstar that he was, just a great guy. And right away he sees the color of his sweater for the practice with Zach and Simone. And Joe's going to be pissed. You know, he goes from playing with Lemieux and Iserman. Right, right. Two young punks on the team, right? Right.

And so Joe comes over to the both of them and says, hey, guys, I see we're on the same line together. Let's have some fun. Let's get to know each other in practice. Let's talk after practice. Let's try to be the best line on the team the rest of the way. And, you know, they were. And that just shows you the kind of quiet leadership that Joe Sackett had. He didn't miss a beat, you know, going from two Hall of Famers to two. Well, one guy was a Hall

of Famer, eventually Jerome, but, you know, two rookies at the time. No, absolutely. Just think about the longevity and the peak of Jerome McGinley when you consider that. When I think of the Golden Goal, I know we're talking about 2002, but I can hear, as I think of the Golden Goal, I can hear Sidney Crosby yelling Iggy at the top of his lungs. It was also quiet in that building. You know what? You get emotional when you think of these moments.

These moments that unite a country, right? Because this isn't like, you know, I'm not a Leaf fan. Oh, Gilmore's wraparound on Cujo in double overtime or whatever, which is all I can talk about as a Leaf fan because I have no Stanley Cup memories of that team. That's another story for another episode. But, you know, we can talk about 0-2 and we can talk about, you know, the golden goal,

and then we can talk about people. Now, the one that's going to be forgotten is Sochi, I think. Like, that's the one. Like, I think it was. He doesn't have a prominent performance defensively. Right, and we went 3-0, I think, against Sweden, I want to say, in the gold medal, but woke up early for that one. Okay, so we're going to play the fourth Canadian goal here,

and then we'll talk about that. Canada picking it up in its own zone. Pass in front of Mendebley. play the fourth Canadian goal here, and then we'll talk about that. Goal! Wow! A lot of Canadian fans here. The place goes crazy here in Salt Lake City. And I guess coast to coast in Canada and all around the world. Have a look at it. Joe Sack, I think, got it. There's the stop by Richter.

Oh, I don't know whether Joe touched it or not. So the shooter's going to get the goal. Sackick's right there. Tries to tip it, but it doesn't need any help to just get over the line. Wow. And the brass for Canada go wild. It sounds like a home game. You know, there was probably equal parts,

but the Canada crowd was something else. But before the game, you know, you can hear the chants on one side, Canada, USA, USA, and a lot of red, because red, white, and blue, and red, and white. Right. So that goal makes it 4-2. And a little fun fact is that this game would be the first time in 70 years that the United States men's hockey team lost an Olympic game on home soil. Well, that's something that Gretzky brought up when talking about his rant 20 years later.

He said, because he's such a great hockey historian, the best team at that point in the tournament was the U.S. by far. They were rolling opponents. They had no close games. And all he kept thinking was, here we go again. Third time that the U.S. has hosted the Winter Olympics, and they're going to win gold again. 60, Canada got beat by a great goaltender

named Jack McCartan, one of Don Cherry's former teammates for the Kitchenwater Beavers. And Don talked about Jack McCartan in the book. But, of course, the miracle on ice in 80. So here we go again, you know, 22 years later. And that's all Gretzky could think about. The U.S. is going to win again.

I don't want this to happen. This is my moment in the sun. I want my team to pull through. That was kind of building up in the emotion of his rant too. Absolutely. That fourth goal, as I recall, that was the goal. That's where you felt like, okay, I think we're doing this. But it's really

this moment here when it's like, it's over. You ready? Yeah. Yeah. Again, LaMista clearing over. You ready? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.. Yeah. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to and that makes it 5-2 Canada surely that's gotta be it that's more than enough take a look at the Canadian bench if you don't see what I say

that's more than enough here it is Sackick beats Leclerc to the net the American defenseman fell in the center zone to give the one step Joe Sackick needed to get in alone and make sure that Canada won the game. Wow. Yeah, that's terrific.

The game was 5-2, which, you know, if you just look at the score, you think, okay, Canada won easily. But when it's 3-2 going into the third period, I think it was early in the third, the Americans had a power play. And Brett Hall had a golden chance, but Brodeur made his best stop. It was a right-pad stop. And I think then the 4-2, 5-2 goal happened.

Canada could finally breathe like Bob and Harry just said on the broadcast you know it was a fait accompli and not to repeat myself but what a call these calls by Bob Cole and Harry Neal I mean it helps when you win right but still these are so good

I just miss I just miss them and it's neat though that here we are 20 years later and both gentlemen are still with us yeah Harry just had a big birthday maybe two weeks ago I think it was 85 maybe older but

he's doing well in Buffalo he still lives in East Amherst and Bob Bob actually called my wife Kathy to get Harry's number to call him to wish him a happy birthday. So I know he's doing well out in St. John's. Wow. So probably, you know, taking it all in.

Probably was watching the curling the last couple of weeks and enjoying that too because he's such a big sports nut. And soon making his Toronto Mike debut thanks to the great Tim Warren's beat. Okay, so to play us out, well, not play us out, but to set the stage for our final little chat about this, is I'm going to play the final seconds. We heard a taste of it off the top, but I'm going to play the final seconds,

and then we're going to wrap this up, talking about the aftermath, Canada wins gold first time in 50 years, and then we'll say goodbye. But let's enjoy again, Bob Cole. Now time in 50 years and then we'll say goodbye but let's enjoy again bob cole now after 50 years it's time for canada to stand up and cheer stand up and cheer everybody the olympic salt lake city 2002 men's ice hockey gold medal, Tim. Yeah, great call.

And Bob tells a couple of good stories from the book in the aftermath of that. He got back to Canada, Newfoundland, and he was sitting at home, and Prime Minister Kretchen, who called Gretzky and the boys to congratulate them after, but he was watching an interview and he was, Kretzky was asked, how did you feel about the Olympics and the Canada winning gold in men's ice hockey? And he said something like,

or how did you react to it? The question was, he said, well, I followed Mr. Cole's instructions. I stood up and cheered. And that made Bob feel so good.

And, and, you know, Bob said, wherever he went the next few weeks, everybody was up and cheered. And that made Bob feel so good. And, you know, Bob said wherever he went the next few weeks, everybody was coming up to him. What a great call this, what a great, you know. But he said the nicest one was he ran into Ken Hitchcock at a future Saturday night game. And it was actually about a year later, because Ken was back. He had lost his job in the NHL that year and was out of work when he joined the Olympic team. But the next year when he was back coaching, he goes, you know, Bob, every time I have a bad game or a bad day now, I pop in a tape

and I watch those last five minutes of that game. And, you know, it's something else to hear you the way you call that last few minutes. Well, even listening to it now with you, and again, I heard it last night. Okay. listening to it now with you and again i heard it last night okay so i wanted to stand up and cheer like i just wanted to do what bob was suggesting i do like that's how i felt here 20 years later uh chatting with you uh quick uh since we're here talking about the aftermath of this first gold medal in 50 games uh 50 games 50 years uh there's a fun little story you covered golf you talked about golf quite a bit and covering golf and uh ian leggett right can you tell the ian

leggett story from this uh this day yeah sure and again this is about making that extra phone call i'd never i like ian comes from the same area as me cambridge ont. So I knew him a little bit as a teenager and stuff, and I'd cover him on the Canadian tour. And I remember we went to a big, a little party for all the Canadian media after the, you know, well after the gold medal game. It was sort of the last night. And Cam Cole, who is a really great columnist in this country, he's also an avid golfer like me, we both said, hey, Ian Leggett won today.

Did you know? And yeah, imagine that. Any other Monday morning, this would be the front page sports story across the country. But, you know, it's going to get buried now because of this. So, you know, I thought about this. I thought, I'm going to give Ian a call. Like, what was it like?

And, you know, he told me the story about how uh he would once read a story when bruce litsky won his first event on the pga tour and he had to make a four-hour drive to the next stop and he said the greatest time was in his car and i can't remember the song he kept playing it was a leonard skinner song and just just enjoying the wind and stuff because, well, here I am now in the age where mobile phones were just becoming a big thing. And so I'm making the two-hour drive from Scottsdale, Arizona to where he lived in Tucson or maybe it was vice versa. But so I've got my phone.

I'm playing, you know, about 100 messages. And, you know, either the second last one or the last one i can't remember hi ian this is wayne gretzky i hear you won today congratulations wow so here's gretzky you know one of his one of the biggest things he's accomplished in his career a new type of experience for him but he still took the time out to send you in a message i guess they had played in some charity events together so they knew each other. Not well, but well enough. That's so classy.

I was blown away. That just shows you, again, you learn certain things. I knew Gretzky was a nice guy because he was always good with the media, but what a classy individual. That story and the Bill McCurry story we talked about earlier. Two things that came out of the book that just,

you know, by asking those last questions and stuff. Amazing. No, Tim, thanks so much for the, the time machine, essentially revisiting 20 years ago and so much more detail in your fine book.

Now, do you have a preference, like how somebody would pick up a copy of gold, how Gretzky's men ended Canada did Canada's 50-year Olympic drought. Do you care how they get it? You just want them to get it, or do you have a preferred way to buy it? No, you know, I always tell people it's obviously Indigo and Amazon are the way to get it because of the way we're shopping online now.

But if you want a signed copy, and I don't, you know, I really enjoy that. There's a little bookstore just down the street here. It's like, I think it's 267 steps because I've walked it a few times. And a lot of my friends and people, acquaintances I know, have ordered the book through him, Ben McNally Books. He has an email address on his website how you can order the book. But he'll let me know and I'll come down and sign it for you, put a personal message. Like, you know, one of, but he'll let me know, and I'll come down and sign it for you, put a personal message.

Like, you know, one of the neat stories from this whole thing, Helene Elliott, great sports columnist for the LA Times. She covers a lot of hockey over her time, but just a nice person, and we got to know each other from covering various Stanley Cups. You know, I put this out on Twitter one day because somebody asked me how to, and she, unbeknownst to me, she ordered a book through Ben McNally Books. And Ben sent me an email saying, can you come down and sign a book for Helene in LA? And she was out in Beijing at the time when she ordered it.

And I was floored by how nice Helene was to do that because it's nice to support our local smaller shops. Well, that's why I asked actually. And that was like the, I'm so glad I did because what I would urge any FOTM listening, particularly those in the GTA is to order it for your, for the hockey fan in your life, order them for their birthday or just because you love them or whatever, pick, go order from Ben McNally books.

And then you can customize that like Tim Warnsby message in the book, which is that great added personalization and he'll sign it. And I think that what a gift for the hockey fan in your life. That's this book gold, I think, as you can remember the sort of forgotten, you know, monkey off this nation's back, if you will, winning the first gold medal at the Olympics in 50 years. And as we heard today, what great memories. And thanks, Tim, for doing this. I really, and by the way, before I say goodbye to you, I want to thank Scott Morrison and Bob Elliott, because this is how it works. These two great FOTMs, who are both also on episode 1,000, by the way, suggested you do this,

and then I got this wonderful 90 minutes with you. So thanks, Scott. Thanks, Bob, and thank you, Tim. And thank you, Mike, for taking a chance on me. And we'll get that Bob Thornton set up for you. He probably won't do Zoom if you don't mind, though. I'll do a phone. I'll phone him.

Don't worry. I'm happy to phone him. I'll do whatever it takes. I'd practically get on a plane at this point to get Bob Cole on Toronto Mic'd. But we'll see. Maybe that would be awesome. Maybe that's what I want to do. But I will phone Bob Cole.

And that brings us to the end of our 1019th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Tim, what is your Twitter handle? People should follow you. Is it at Tim Warnsby? Yeah, I'm not a big Twitter guy. Every once in a while I'll do something. I will tweet out the link when you send it to me for this

because, you know, again, it's something I'm really fortunate to be part of. So he is on Twitter, but you can follow him because then you get the retweets of great things like this that he does. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH. Canna Cabana is at Canna Cabana underscore.

And Ryobi are on Instagram at Ryobi underscore Canada. See you all Thursday when my special guest is Scott Carpenter from 1050 Chum. And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you but I'm a much better man for having known you well you know that's true

because everything is coming up rosy and green yeah the wind is cold but the sun is bright