Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Tom Harrington: Toronto Mike'd #896

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

Mike chats with the CBC's Tom Harrington about singing on The Tommy Hunter Show, being on Reach For The Top, joining the CBC as a sports journalist, switching to news, appearing on Marketplace and The World This Hour, and the state of news in this country.

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Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is the CBC's Tom Harrington. Welcome, Tom. Hey, Mike. Nice to be here. I'm glad you're here too.

And it gave me an excuse to go into the closet and dish out this beauty I'm glad you're here too. And it gave me an excuse to go into the closet and dish out this beauty I'm wearing today. I'm wearing an authentic shirt from the 1976 Olympics in Montreal. Nicely done. It's the Exploding Pizza, as it was called. It was actually called something else when that logo was popular,

but I won't say what that was. Exploding asshole. Okay, you say. We swear on this show. I know you're... Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's digital radio, and maybe no one will hear it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll be careful. You don't want to fall into any bad habits. No. Because that could get you in trouble in the season. I'm on holiday, so, you know. I noticed that, because I went to... I do this thing where I say,

and if I say it now, my phone might do it, but I say, okay, Google, what's the news? And then you get that sound effect I played at the beginning of the show here. Yeah. And it's the world is weak or the world is our, I guess. Right, right. And usually it's you. It's not you today.

Who's your sub? Like, who do we have right now? They usually have a bunch of different people when I'm away. Maybe Josette LeFleur may be doing it or Neil Herland or... No, but we'll get to him. But it was somebody else. Keep going. Do you remember any other songs?

I'm sure I remember who else has been filling in for me. Jeez. That's okay. I'm putting you on the spot here. Yeah, you know what? And it tells you how often I listen to the news when I'm on holidays, right? How long have you been on holidays here? I've been over a month.

I'm actually off for two months. Wow. Yeah. That's real holidays. That's why you're at the CBC. Yeah. When you've been there as long as I have, you bank the time. Yeah.

So I have a bunch of time off. So, and I like, I got into the habit of doing this when I was at Marketplace where I'd have, we worked consistently throughout the year and then I'd take a big chunk of time off in the summer because it was pretty intense stuff and you want to shut down for a while. And I'm going to embarrass you a little bit here now that you're an FOTM. So did you think you were doing an episode of Mike Richards? I'm legitimately curious. No.

And that was before I pressed record. Yes. Yeah, no, I did not. That was just a brain burp. Because I'm kind of honored. Mike Richards is an FOTM, and he's been over several times. Very nice. And we're good buds.

I could call him up now. And hit him with that? He'd dish the dirt. So if I'm going to be confused with somebody, I feel like that's something I should be him up now. And hit him with that? He'd dish the dirt. So if I'm going to be confused with somebody, I feel like that's something I should be very proud of. Tom Harrington thought he was talking to Mike Richards. Shout out to Mike Richards. But lots to cover here, my friend.

But let me just share a little bit of info about the shirt. Because I haven't worn this shirt. I'm trying to think. I think Diana Swain. Oh, great. She got the shirt. Jill De't worn this shirt. I'm trying to think. I think Diana Swain. Oh, great. She got the shirt. Jill Deacon got the shirt. And I can't, I think, I don't think Mike Wise, he got, I have a CBC t-shirt, but I don't

think Mike Wise got the shirt. So you're in good company there. Good company, yeah. Did Matt Galloway get the shirt? I have to think on that. But I know for sure. Oh, you have that shirt, by the way. Okay.

I've had it for about five years now. Okay. Yeah. And I got it from a gentleman named Martin. You know, those Dutch like to put vowels together. So I think it's Martin. And he was a longtime TV Ontario, a TVO guy. Okay.

And he tells me in 1976, there was like a TVO-CBC alliance covering the Olympics in Montreal. Wow. And everybody got the shirt I'm wearing. And obviously, he didn't care for his because his only shirt he had in his closet for decades, he thought I might enjoy it and he gifted it to me. I do not have that.

I don't even have an orange blazer. I do have an old blue blazer from CBC Sports, but I do not have any of that. How come? I feel like, were you just too late for the orange stuff? I think I was. Yeah, no, I was too late. Because you're too young. And mercifully, I was too late for the orange stuff? I think I was yeah no I was too late because you're too young and mercifully

I was too late for the orange blazer but yeah no I didn't get into the network sports scene until the 90s so it was well past at that point

right that is true yeah are you jealous at all like are you thinking of rolling me for this shirt? no I think that's fine it looks really good on you

it would probably look awful on me it would also look like a tent on me too so that's probably not a good thing well I don't think it looks good on me either It would probably look awful on me. It would also look like a tent on me too, so that's probably not a good thing. Well, I don't think it looks good on me either, but you're very kind. I do want to just pimp out another episode.

This is the second episode of the day because at 8 a.m. I conducted Michael Landsberg's exit interview. So he, on Friday, a press release went out. And it was basically like after 37 years, uh, he's out at TSN. Right. And you know, they write these, as you know, when Bell

Media PR writes a press release, uh, it's, it's, you can't tell what's going on. Like you sort of have to get the subject on, I got him on Zoom and I basically grilled him for an hour. So if you want to know what went down with Michael Landsberg, the episode I dropped on the feed just before this one should tell you what's going on there. But did you ever cross paths with Michael Landsberg? Very occasionally and not even in a sports context. I think maybe at a charity event once or twice,

but we never really sort of small talk. I don't know him very well. I have a great deal of admiration for him and particularly his efforts on the front of mental health, which have been tremendous. And I wish him well. I hope the next phase is as good as the great career at a TSN. Absolutely. And he does have a charity called Sick Not Weak. Right. And now he has the freedom to spend more time there. But all the details, of course, as in terms of like, I always wonder, and it's terrible I think this, but like, do you get a tap on the shoulder

and they say, time's up, let's figure this out? Or do you, you know, does Michael Landsberg tap them on the shoulder and say, I think I'm ready now? Like, you know, who initiates this? Didn't he tell you? Well, he did tell me, but I don't want to spoil it. Okay.

Yeah, no, it's different. And it's also different, certainly different between the private broadcasters and CBC. We have, there's a different, it's a different kind of environment. And so those kind of situations come up. I would suspect, in Michael's case, maybe it was mutual. I'd like to think so, but...

To be discovered in the episode before this one. Whatever number that was, I'll get the right number here. So we're listening. You are now, Tom, you're 896. So 895 for the episode with Michael Landsberg. Quick note before I get to Neil Herland. But Kyle Lowry is no longer a Raptor.

Yeah. I know you're a sports guy. We're going to get into it. But what are your thoughts there? He's going to be a member of the Miami Heat. Yeah. I mean, I think it was probably inevitable. I think we kind of knew it was coming for several months.

And, you know, I do enjoy sports and I keep an eye on things, but not as much as I used to when I covered sports. But I just rather look back at his contributions to the franchise. And when he came here, if I recall, he kind of had a bit of a checkered past. People questioned his attitude, that sort of thing. And he proved to be none of that, or at least by the end of his time here. And his run to the championship with Leonard and company was phenomenal. One of the most exciting periods in the city's history, I would say.

Do you think he leaves as the most beloved Raptor of all time? Probably. I mean, he's not, I think he's, you know, DeRozan was lovable because of his weaknesses almost. But didn't deliver the championship. Right, right. Like I feel you're next level with Lowry here.

Absolutely. Well, I tweeted last night when I was hearing about Lowry that I said, you know, when Kawhi left, it hurt the brain and when Lowry leaves, it hurts the heart.

It breaks the heart, right? So I think it was a bit like that with I think Kyle's really sort of climbed into the hearts of Torontonians and his love for his family and his support for charities in the city has been outstanding. So, yeah, I certainly think of the Raptors, and arguably in the city, have icons of whether it's Keon or Sundin or Pinball, you know, guys like that. He's got to be in that conversation. Agreed, agreed. And, you know, Sundin, again, didn't deliver the championship.

So I feel like you're absolutely right. Like, I feel like if I had any say in the matter, and I do not, but they'd be working on that Kyle Lowry, like, statue outside the Scotiabank Arena right now. Let's break ground on that today. I think since Cicero tweeted the other day, they said they should have him taking a charge outside the arena. Well, he's got that cake, as they say. Yeah one took a charge like Kyle Lowry. So we'll miss

Kyle for sure. And his first game back, assuming we can get a full house in there with the COVID rules and all that, should be a pretty magical moment. I think it'll just be quite the reception and thanks to Kyle when he comes back. So interesting. Okay. Tell me about Neil Herland because I'll be honest with you. I've been listening to you forever and you're on the show because of Neil. Yes, I know. I told him, I said, I don't know how I pay you in percentages because I'm not getting anything for this, but. Well, you are going to get some gifts.

So you'll have to, we'll get to that. I'll talk to him about that. He told me that he had been talking to you about this and I said, really? Why? Why would Mike want to talk to him about that. He told me that he had been talking to you about this, and I said, really? Why? Why would Mike want to talk to me? And he tends to, I know you talk to local, like more Toronto-centric people in the media, generally speaking, from what I understand.

So I was surprised that he would want to talk to me, and I'm generally speaking surprised when people want to talk to me. And so he said, I said, I've been telling him about you, and I said, well, I appreciate that, Neil. And suddenly he said, I said, I've been talking, telling me about you. And I said, well, I appreciate that, Neil. And, and suddenly he said, so he's going to contact you. And you, we got together on Twitter and boom, here we are. So here we are. So shout out to Neil. And is he a good guy, Neil? Oh yeah. Cause I would have Neil on just for the record. And I think I told him this, but he, he wanted me to start with you. He said, he's a, he, he just can't wait to hear you on Toronto Mike. I can't either.

No pressure. But Neil, I know you're listening. So thank you for the connect here. And there's an invitation for you to join me in the backyard at some point soon. Great setup, by the way. Yeah, it's a nice day too.

I've had nights, I do these pandemic Fridays and there was a few Thursdays ago we were out here and i had the tarpa because just in case because the gear is expensive tom i don't have the cbc to just uh you know these mics are world class my man right yeah right and uh the skies opened up and there was like it was like a typhoon and there's a it's caught on caught on tape yeah it's quite, in fact, I had Mark Weisblatt over here yesterday from 1236. He was telling me that that was a very exciting moment to listen to that happen live. It's just like we were all going to drown.

You're not in Kansas anymore. No, but today's beautiful. Yeah, it's a gorgeous day. Gorgeous day. Although I will say the shirt, which is gorgeous looking, doesn't breathe well. That's the other issue. It's reminding me of an Olympic story.

I could tell you about shirt clothing if you want. Yeah, hit me with that story right now. Okay, so this is 96, my first Olympics in Atlanta. And it was, you know, you think it's hot and sticky in Toronto. It's brutal. It's a sauna there. So in the weeks leading up to the games, I was shooting feature pieces that ran during the coverage of those games.

But we also had to, there's usually a look that has to be agreed upon for the announcers to wear on the air. Sure. So one of the producers was assigned to come up with this look for us. And we had some golf shirts, um, to wear, which we were usually wearing during our features, but then we were presented with the shirt we were going to wear on air. So this was a pale blue Oxford cloth short sleeve button down shirt

to be worn with khakis. So I'm thinking if I'm going to Newport for the yacht racing, fabulous. For the Olympics in Atlanta where a single drop of water on a pale blue shirt would soon become the map of Italy on your shirt. And I perspire.

And some of my colleagues sweat. I perspire. And we had to do it on cameras and be outside in, like, you know, 90-degree temperatures with 100% humidity. And so we all rebelled against wearing these shirts. Yeah, good. And they threatened to send us home

because we wouldn't wear the shirts. And we're having this very testy meeting with the executive producer in the broadcast center in Atlanta, and there are no no it was such a huge building there are no roofs on the offices just walls just gyprock and we're sitting in this very tense meeting and suddenly when we're about we're reaching the crescendo we're all either going to be fired or go home or whatever one of these shirts lands in the middle of a thwock on the floor to make the point anyway they agreed that we didn't have to wear those on the air. And so we picked our,

you could choose either the golf shirts or the pale blue shirts, but pale blue in a sweaty, humid part of the world is really not a good idea for our camera. No. I feel like that would be newsworthy about the CBC Journalists Alliance rebellion against the wardrobe on a hot Atlanta day. Man, we'll get back to the Olympics and the

96 Olympics. That was, man, that's the Donovan Bailey moment. Are you kidding me? Holy smokes. Quick note from Brian Gerstein. Shout out to Brian. He heard you were coming on and he wrote me, between his Montreal roots when I lived there and was a fixture covering

sports to coming here and moving to the news side, no shortage of topics to cover! Exclamation mark. A real straight shooter, Tom is perfect for some real talk. That's very nice. So if you've got Brian's endorsement here,

I'm more excited than ever. So he says you got the Montreal roots, but of course you're from Newfoundland. I am. I'm born and raised in St. John's, yeah. And so, okay, so you're a Newfoundland. I am. I'm born and raised in St. John's, yeah. And so, okay, so you're a Newfoundlander. Like, whenabouts do you leave Newfoundland? How old are you?

I was 22 when I, I'd actually started my broadcast career in Newfoundland and St. John's on a private radio station called CJYQ. I was hired out of, I was working as a tip-top clothing salesman in downtown St. John's, and a guy teaching a nighttime course in journalism, which I was taking, came in one day.

I thought to buy a pair of socks or a tie, and he said, I want you to come in and audition for a job. Wow. Yeah. And so I said, really? Okay. So I went into the station, and I had to self-op a board and run the mics and everything else and play a cart,

literally with no experience, and he hired me. So at 22, I was reading the 5 o'clock news on this private station. But prior to that, did you have aspirations to be in front of a microphone? You know, when I was really young, I would do play-by-play of street hockey games outside my window, looking out my window on my street, and I would do the play-by-play. I loved watching the Olympics and Hockey Night, obviously, and sports on television. My late father was a journalist, and so a little bit of that was in the family. But it wasn't a career I didn't aspire to because it's how do you get there?

It's not like going to med school or becoming a banker or a businessman. It's like becoming a broadcaster and do sports. How do you do that? So I never really thought about it in that context. Even before that, Mike, I was a performer on stage. I sang on television when I was like seven years old and sang on national TV when I was 12. So I've been used to kind of performing.

Don't worry, we're going to get to the singing time. Don't you worry about it. Anyway, so the broadcasting is kind of in my blood since I was really young. But in terms of a road to getting to becoming a television reporter or radio reporter, I didn't really see it. but the radio job was great. I got some experience, but then I was accepted at journalism school at Western. Western, that brings you here. Yeah, and that's how I came to Ontario and from then on to Calgary and Montreal.

Spoiler alert, we're going to get there. But when I think of Newfoundland sports broadcasting, et cetera, I think of Bob Cole. Hey, absolutely. So you had a, there's a blueprint there. Oh, yeah. Well, I listened to him on, he did, he used to do play-by-play of senior hockey in Newfoundland on a private radio station, yeah, back in the 60s, the St. John's Caps and all those

teams. And, of course, my other run encounter with Bob was with Reach to the Top, because he was the local quiz master of Reach to the Top in St. John's, and I was on Reach to the Top in 1974. And Bob was the quiz master yeah well that's almost as long ago as the day they were making the shirt i'm wearing but uh reach for the top yeah uh so i guess there's regional version uh that's what it was and then bob cole was hosting the new finland version of that's amazing and he did he also read the supper hour

newscast so he would like he it's called here and now so he would read the newscast and when we record reach the top games in the province for cbc he would, it's called Here and Now. So he would read the newscast and when we record Reach the Top Games in the province for CBC, he would do those. Wow. And the national championships in 1974 were in St. John's and Bob was the host and Bill Guest, the late Bill Guest, was the quiz master, which that was

the year that we won. So the first, and I was not alive for this by the way, but I heard it in the archives, if you will, but I heard it in the archives, if you will. But I heard a radio broadcast of Bob Cole calling the 1972 Summit Series. That's right. So, again, I hadn't shown up yet, but I would show up around the time that you're on Reach for the Top. I think that's when I arrived.

So Bob Cole's already, he's already a prominent play-by-play guy in hockey. Right. By the time, and he's still doing the Reach for the Top in Newfoundland. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So Gare Joyce, do you know Gare Joyce? I know Gare very well, yes.

He's a good FOGM. Hello, Gare. Oh, cool. In fact, he's coming over, but not for Toronto Mike. We're going to do something else more fun with Gare Joyce when he joins me in the backyard soon. But he just wrote me a quick note and said, get him to sing. So then I have to dig into this. Like, why am I getting this newsman, former sports guy, journalist?

Why am I getting Tom Harrington to sing? So I am going to uncover some very rare audio. I'm going to uncover, I'm going to play some very rare audio for you. Listen closely in your headphones, Tom, to this. Listen closely in your headphones, Tom, to this. Give me information. Information. Information, information, give me long distance, long distance, give me heaven.

Two, three. Operator. Operator. Information. Information. Give me Jesus. Give me Jesus on the line. Operator.

Operator. Information. Information. I'd like to speak to a friend of mine. That's a long time ago, Mike. Wow. Tom. Firstly, amazing.

I was going to bring this down in the mix and have you keep going here. I'm getting a live performance in the backyard. I knew the song from the Manhattan Transfer. Yeah, exactly. That's right. That's where we learned it. Yeah. Yeah.

And they had that Twilight Zone song. It's a very young man. I had a cassette cassette best of Manhattan Transfer the boy from New York City yeah yeah got him on my phone yeah yeah so I knew this jam

and then I was listening to this and tell us who's singing with you here so the woman doing the solo is her name was Debbie Squires back then Debbie actually ended up working at the Evening Telegram

my father's paper I was there for a small role in St. John's and the other the fellow singing is Glenn Simmons who was a fabulously talented singer, songwriter, guitar player, who was part of a group called the Wonderful Grand Band back in the 70s with a bunch of Newfoundland performers,

Sandy Morris and folks like that, Ron Hines. And so we were a trio on a show that my sister co-hosted at CBC St. John's in 1975. So I was 17 in that video when I was doing that show. Yeah, so we do one song per show, and I did a couple of solos myself, or did the harmonies. I mean, I was in second year university, and I'm making some money on the side singing a local TV show, so that was pretty cool.

What was the name of the show? It was called Kinda Country, with a K and K, Kinda Country. And my sister Beth Harrington was the name of the show? It was called Kinda Country. With a K and K. Kinda Country. And my sister Beth Harrington was the co-host. I think she's sharing this video, actually. I think it's my secret source then. Unbelievable, this audio of you singing.

You're only 17 in this. And at some point, this singing career of yours gets you on the Tommy Hunter show? Yeah. Wow, that's Canadian big leagues right there. Well, you know what? I've got to tell you. When we were on, I was in a group which my mother formed back in the early 60s in St. John's called The Little Singers. We eventually became The Sanderlings, which was a little shorebird in Newfoundland.

And we sang on stage quite a bit, sang at events, corporate events, that sort of thing. I started when I was six, and we did it until I was 13. And the last year we were together, we were on the Tommy Yoder Show three times in one season. So we were on in October of 1970, Christmas of 1970, and the spring of 1971, which was unheard of to be on the Tommy Yoder Show three times in one season.

And in 1971, Tommy Hunter Show was probably the most watched show in the country. And we had the highest ratings that they'd ever had on the show when we were on it. And that's why they had us back. This is unbelievable. Okay, because I'm of an age that I remember the Tommy Hunter Show.

Is it Ben Murgy who takes over for the Tommy? Who takes that time slot? Is it Ralph Ben Murgy? No, no, no. The Hunter Show was canceled in 92, I think. Okay, but that's when, was it Friday night? It was on Fridays. It was on, I think, at nine in Toronto.

Okay, so Ben Mergey was later. I think there was something that replaced it before Ralph got there, yeah. Just if it all came together, only because I produced Ralph Ben Mergey's podcast, Not That Kind of Rabbi. Oh, wow. He's become a very, very dear friend over the last few uh, I produce Ralph Ben-Murray's podcast. No, that kind of rabbi has become a very, uh, very dear friend over the last few years.

I know Ralph quite well. Yeah. Big fan. Shout out to Ralph Ben-Murray if you're, if you're listening, but Tommy Hunter, that's, that's so,

I don't, I'm all like, I don't even know where to go with this except, uh, like why are you, why did you quit singing? Like, it sounds like if you're the,

if you're, uh, Ray, getting the ratings on Tommy Hunter's it sounds like if you're getting the ratings on Tommy Hunter's show, like, to me, like, the next stop is Juno Awards. Like, you could have been the Rankin family. You know, it's funny you should mention it because at the time we were on the Hunter show,

it had taken a while for us to be kind of, air quotes, discovered in the rest of Canada. And so that started happening in our last year. But at the same time, so I was the youngest member of the group. I was 13 at this point. And the oldest was my sister, Beth, who was 18. So we're all young. And, you know, we're going to school, university, you know,

and I think there was an issue among maybe some of the parents that they didn't want their kids in show business. And we were up, like General Motors had approached us to do a commercial for them. Several other TV programs wanted to have us on. Like we were at, like General Motors had approached us to do a commercial for them. Several other TV programs wanted to have us on. Like we were on the verge of becoming way bigger.

And the question was, do we do that or stop? And the agreement was between, I guess, the parents because these conversations I was not party to and I was only 13.

They decided to break to the group to come to an end. So we stopped performing in September of 71. So that's like almost 50 years ago now. And how old are you then? I was 13. Wow. That come to an end. So we stopped performing in September of 71. So that's like almost 50 years ago now. And how old are you then?

I was 13. Wow, that's wild. Okay, so you got, that's wild. And that's before Reach for the Top. So I mean, Tommy Hunter and Reach for the Top, like you almost stepped out by becoming this national CBC journalist here. Yeah, if you go to the CBC station in St. John's

and walk around, you'll see lots of pictures on the wall of various things in the history of the station, but I'm in several of them because I've been involved with CBC for over 50 years, really. Wow, okay. And that is, by the way, I've always wanted to... Stephen Brunt, he's part of the

organization behind the Woody Point Writers Festival. Right. And one of my little dreams when we get rid of this pandemic is I want to go to Newfoundland and go to the Woody's Point Songwriters Festival that Brunt's a part of.

So I'll make a trip to the CBC building and hunt down your photos. And I've never been to the Writers Festival myself and I want to go. Actually, you'd thought of going this year.

Sure. I'll talk to my wife about that. See what she says. Well, Brunt, Brunt, I mean, Brunt's very good to this program. Yeah. He's got a great place down there too, I'm told.

Yeah, he's probably there right now. His summers are spent in Newfoundland. So we'll go together to that festival. Sounds good. Because I'm excited about it. Okay, now we talked about you going to Western. So you're in Ontario. But professionally, it sounds like your CBC career starts in Calgary.

Yeah, 40 years ago in May, I joined CBC. So I was at Western doing the master's program, and at that time, the CBC had a training program for television news reporters. So they would, it was kind of, I've often used the metaphor of a hockey draft in a way. They were looking to define new talent. So they would go to all the journalism schools across the country they'd interview students who were interested in particular in doing television um and doing television news and it was a summer program only there are no commitments once september came but you'd spend the summer working in a local newsroom uh and you know learning on the job basically but

but the idea was to get the real life experience and for them to see whether you had what it took to be on the air. And I got picked for that program, and I was sent to Calgary. So I spent two weeks in Toronto training with a bunch of top CBC people, including Jan Tennant, I remember that name, the famous CBC announcer. And then I was shipped to Calgary in May of 81. And was it always sports that you were interested in covering?

Like, was this the dream? Yeah, I think initially my... I wanted to cover sports, but I wanted to do it like a news person would. So I thought I'd like to cover like you cover politics, you know, City Hall, Parliament Hill, business or that sort of thing. I wasn't necessarily a scores and highlights guy. I mean, I liked that. That was fun. But I thought there were really good stories to be told in sports. And a lot of social issues that emerged in greater society first percolated in sports, which always intrigued me, whether it was race relations or other things. So I've always had that interest. And I, and I remember when I was in Calgary, actually, I read an article in TV Guide about Bryant Gumbel and how

he had come, his life in sports and how he sort of approached it with a journalist's attitude. And, and I remember clipping that and sticking it on the radiator by my desk and thinking, yeah, that's going to be me. Yeah. And the other thing I remember the article is how he could talk 30 seconds and get it every time. I said, boy, I hope I can do that someday. But yeah, no, I think that was my goal and was to do the Olympics and maybe do hockey and other sports. And you said 96 was your first Olympics. Yes. So just so I get my timelines right, what years approximately, when are you in Calgary? I was in Calgary from 81 to 83. And then I got a job as a radio sportscaster in Montreal. And that's when Brian discovers you, he's growing up. The guy, Brian Gerstein, who said when he was growing up in Montreal,

he would hear you there. I was in radio sports and then I moved to TV sports with, I worked with George Athens and eventually Scott Russell as well. He and I were working in Montreal together. Scott Russell, yeah. I've been seeing a bit of him lately. I feel like I live with the guy now. Correct. He did stuff, like he did a whole bunch of stuff with CBC Kids.

Around the time, my two little ones were really into CBC kids. So it was kind of fun to see that side of him. But what kind of guy is he when the mic's not on? He's like a big kid. He's really an affable, easygoing guy. A lot of fun. We're good friends. We don't see each other as much anymore. But we're in Montreal together. We had a really good time, a lot of fun. And we both have ended up working together on network sports specials, which was really gratifying because we had both been encouraging to each other. We didn't see ourselves as competitors.

You know, you want to get all the good assignments, everybody does. Right, right. But Scott's always been an ace in my book, yeah. Okay, good to hear. Okay, so what is it exactly you're offered after after cbc montreal like you you're the anchor of national sports what is the uh well i ended up going so i was in montreal for over 10 years and doing radio sports then tv sports but while i was in uh in tv sports in montreal locally i also filled in as the anchor of the supper hour show as well so i'd moved i started moving into

news even then just because i'd say yes. When people would ask me to do stuff, I said, sure, I can do that. And I was like the Mikey Life cereal guy, right? Give it to Mikey. He'll eat anything? Well, that's me. I would do any assignment they gave me. And so I did all kinds of different things at CBC Montreal. But my wife, who's retired now, but a journalist, she was working for a program called Sunday Morning on CBC Radio, a documentary show. And she was working in Montreal for them, but they wanted her in Toronto. So in 94, she was, they basically said,

you got to be here. So I said, I quit. I quit CBC Montreal and came here as a freelancer. Is that the Michael Enright show? No, that was, he did As It Happens. So, yeah. So, which, so it was a variety of people actually did that show.

Barbara Smith and Christopher Thomas and Ian Brown and a bunch of other people. So, I mean, it ran for many, many years, like 30 years, I guess. So, yeah, so she had to be here. So I followed her and just started freelancing when I came here. There's worse places to follow your wife to. Yeah. And, Mike, this is our New York in terms of media.

If you're going to be anywhere in the country, you have to be where the action is, where the network is, where the opportunities are. And I'd already gotten my foot in the door with network sports. I'd done the Commonwealth Games in Victoria in 94. I'd done the Canada Games in 93 in Kamloops. So the chance to do some more network stuff

was better being here. Yeah, without a doubt. That's why, you know, you mentioned at the top, usually Toronto personalities, but actually there's quite a few national personalities who happen to live in the GTA for the reasons you just expressed. Right. So like, like a Diana Swain, for example, who, by the way, was Miss Chilliwack.

I don't know if you knew this. I did not know that. No, that's why people come on Toronto Mike and I, so now people will be singing to you when they see you and they'll be talking about your appearance on, oh crap, I'm forgetting the name of the Newfoundland show you run. Kinda Country. Kinda Country. Spell it again.

It's kinda, like K-I-N-D-A, but then country spelled with a K. Okay, Kinda Country. Yeah, there you go. Get some alliteration there. And they'll be talking about that, but yeah, Diana Swain was Miss Chilliwack. I'll hit her with that when I see her again.

Hit her with that. That's no small feat. She did very well there in Chilliwack. But we have you now in sort of national sports. So I guess this explains being at the Atlanta Olympics in 96. Well, I had this odd hybrid job in Toronto. It was unique, actually, where my salary was actually split between CBC News and CBC Sports.

So I would do national sports, which was the precursor. Like we came on the air at 1130 in Toronto time doing a live show. This is before the Sportsnet had a newscast at night. It was TSN and us. And so we had a live show. I did the show four nights a week, Monday through Thursday. And Bruce Dobigan did it Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Bruce came over recently.

That's a whole different story. Yes. Because he's become very right wing in his Calgary, living in Calgary. Yeah, and he's been there a while now. I think he went to do, when he left CBC, he went to work at the Herald, I think, for a while. And then I don't think there were cuts there. I don't know what the full story is. We're still in contact a bit on social media and that sort of thing.

So anyway, I was in this weird position of doing both sports. So I do network sports events plus News World. So I'd host shows and I'd do features and documentaries. But because of that, I did get to go to Atlanta in 96 and then subsequently three more for sports and five more for news. Okay, specifically, because I've been thinking a lot about the 96 Olympics because, of course,

Andre de Grasse, who just got another bronze medal in the 100, and tomorrow races, we'll maybe talk more about this later, but he races in the 200 meter tomorrow morning. And I'm hoping for gold there. And, of course, Donovan Bailey is the one and only time, because, you know, they disqualified Ben Jones. Yeah, they did. You heard about that.

You know, they completely... Talk to him about it, actually. Well, okay, Because I feel like, I mean, yes, he was cheating. I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have been disqualified. And then we can get into this, but there's some pretty interesting evidence that he wasn't

the only one cheating, but he was the only one caught, the only one disciplined, and they took away his gold medal, and there was great shame for Ben Johnson. But I feel like we've kind of erased him from the Olympic history of this country. Because when you watch the CBC montages now, they sort of start in 96. Like you might go back and do the Percy Williams, I think it is. Yes.

Next, it's Donovan Bailey winning gold in Atlanta. But I mean, for those who watched, and that was, I think, almost every Canadian who was alive in 1988, as I was, like that was, I think, almost every Canadian who was alive in 1988, as I was. Like, that was a moment. Like, that was an unbelievable moment when Ben Johnson beat Carl Lewis in that 100 meter in Seoul, Korea. And I know it did happen. And yes, he was disqualified and he doesn't have the gold medal anymore. But like, what do you think about this? I almost want to call it like some kind of like washing of history, to scrubbing of history like it's an embarrassment and a shame well you know

in my in my sports time as a reporter I did several stories on Ben and it's a couple of longer pieces as well and one of them explored the kind of the what is the total price someone has to pay for a mistake like that or for a decision to take drugs and it was the culture in the 80s to dope in sprinting. A lot of people were doing it, including Lewis, as it turned out. Right. And so the piece was more kind of on that theme. This is probably, gosh, 20 years ago I did this piece,

about what happened to him and whether the suspicions around how he tested positive, but also how much of a price should he pay? And it was almost as if because we'd invested so much in him emotionally ourselves, we were so let down that our reaction was to be vindictive, really vindictive. And I think that's gone away a little bit only because he's not, not in the spotlight anymore, which I thought was, I think that's kind of unfair. And, you know,

people were happy to be on the bandwagon with him until it wasn't a good thing to be doing. By the way, we lost Angela Bailey the other day. Yeah, I saw that last night, yeah. I started falling in love with the Olympics in 84. And Angela Bailey was a, you know, and Ben Johnson. Right. Did he get the bronze in 84? Yes, he did.

Okay. Good one. Right. But that was my introduction to this world. And Angela Bailey was like a big deal because she was a competitive uh 100 meter runner yeah and you remember angela sigenko yeah right so i remember the devon inquire i interviewed her back in the 90s uh i think for the ben piece actually uh because obviously her connection with him and she knew charlie francis's i just talked to charlie all the time but he was trying to convince him to do an interview on camera he He would never do it. I talked to him several times a year.

I would have a conversation with him, but I could never convince him to go on camera to talk about the things he knew. And he took all that to the grave with him, a lot of it anyway. And you probably received this intel on the down low, or I guess you guys would call it off the record. So you know things that basically he didn't want to go on the record low, or I guess you guys would call it off the record? So you know things that basically

he didn't want to go on the record with? Yeah. And so, you know, it's been so long, Mike, I can't remember most of it. My brain is like a sieve, as Thomas Dolby once sang. So I don't remember all of it, but I just know that there was a lot

he could have said and told that might have mitigated. I'm not saying that, first of all, he was the mastermind of the whole doping program that they, those guys were on, but he also knew a lot about what was happening in the rest of the track world. Right.

And, uh, which a lot of people weren't talking about. And I was, and I did a lot of research around that around Marion Jones as well. And, and her, her,

one of her gurus, I talked to him regularly. And, but again, he kept saying he'd do an interview with me and he never did. But, um, but it's,

these are some of the, that's getting back to doing sports journalism, that's what I liked about the law career. And I like that too, because you can get your scores from anywhere, and I do enjoy sports analysis, but I think what you're doing, that's sort of like the deeper dive

into some of these bigger issues that transcend sport almost. And you mentioned Angela Izajanko. Angela? Yes. Yeah, okay. Same name as Bailey. But I know her records were scrubbed too because of what was revealed

in the Dubbin Inquirer. Right. So it's like you get these things scrubbed. I always think of the Fab Five from Michigan. Yes. It's like, oh, that didn't happen. It's like, wait a minute. Oh, it did. Yeah, and you invest and you

put your heart and soul into it. I think that's a big part of it. Honestly, that's one of the interesting aspects of sports. When people you believe in let you down, the reaction is very, very extreme in many cases to that sense of being let down and not always laudable. I think people should be able to sort of step back and sort of say,

you know, circumstances are what they are. Okay, so should be able to sort of step back and sort of say, you know, circumstances are what they are. Okay, so we're going to get, very shortly here, I'm going to ask you about the 96 Olympics, where Donovan Bailey not only wins gold, but gets to keep it, which is very exciting. But I'm curious, okay, what was that?

Hold on here. I was going to ask you about another event that happened recently in sports. Hold on, I'm going to reset here. Lost my Hold on here. I was going to ask you about another event that happened recently in sports. Hold on, I'm going to reset here. Lost my train of thought. I think a butterfly flew by. Okay, we'll go with the butterfly theory. The butterfly effect.

Right, if a butterfly flaps its wings here in my backyard, how does that affect here? Oh, yes, it came back to me. See, if I just ramble long enough, it'll all come back to me. I'm not a CBC broadcaster, so I can have these moments where I forget what I've been talking about. But I'm going to speak of a man who played five years for our Toronto Blue Jays,

Roberto Alomar. Yes. And I've written, FOTM Mike Wilner wrote a piece for the Toronto Star, and there's been other opinions of the nature of how this taints the 92 and 93 World Series, because Alomar was a huge cog in that wheel, a very important piece of that puzzle, Hall of Famer.

And of course, there's been some serious allegations made regarding the sexual assault. And now he's been erased, literally. If he was referenced at something in the Dome, I think there was something, his name there was something he was name was on. Anything his name was on basically at the dome has literally been scrubbed here. And I'm curious of your thoughts on this. Uh,

like, like can you, can you appreciate the fact that he was a, uh, five tool all-star for this team for years and a key part of two world series. Can you celebrate those World Series and not have it equate to basically condoning any actions of the man himself

that we've sadly learned about recently? That's a very, very complicated question. It's the same question you'd ask of anybody who likes Michael Jackson's music or Woody Allen's movies, right? So, you know, you cannot extricate him from the Blue Jays winning two World Series and that he was a Hall of Fame second baseman. That's a fact. So, and the fact that the accusations of,

and his, you know, his response to the accusations of sexual assault and sexual harassment are not, didn't, from what I understand, didn't happen while he was playing on those teams that won the World Series. So they were post-career, I understand. So I think you have to kind of go, people compartmentalize a lot in life. They've had trauma or they've had an experience of some sort and they are able to sort of lock it away with a key and not always think about it and yet live their life

and maybe deal in those circumstances that remind them of that period in their life, that instant in their life, and they somehow manage to deal with it. I think everybody does that with all these cases. People are either listening to Michael Jackson's music because they love it, they watch Woody Allen films because they're funny, or they love Alomar because he contributed to the Blue Jays. Does that condone any of their behavior?

I don't think it does. I think you can separate that out and still be you know admire their artistic or athletic ability and still be you know scornful of their private behavior like when i see a sports net montage on the blue jays i understand why they're no longer going to show alomar's home runoff of uh dennis eckersley okay which was of of course, prior to these allegations, would have been one of the top five. Easy top five. Some argue one. Joe's number one, I think. I think so, too. I'm with you.

Alomar's number two. I'm with you, buddy. Touch them all, Joe. I understand why, from a branding perspective and for various reasons, they're not going to celebrate that moment, but at the same time, I hope there's no talk of removing World Series banners

because that happened and we were all excited to watch it and it was a team effort. And I just hope that we can continue to celebrate the 92 and 93 World Series victories, even though a key member of that team, it turns out, wasn't a very good human. Yeah, and these are the decisions that Blue Jays fans

and baseball fans have to come to, like I said, and the same with Alan and Jackson and multiple other people in different parts of the entertainment business who've done things that we find reprehensible and are accused of doing those things. But at the same time, can we find a way to appreciate it? And it's a bit like you may have a relative who has a problem, a drinking problem or a drug problem

or a loved one, and do you stop loving them because of the problem? Or do you try to work them through it? Everybody's got an individual battle to deal with. Right. Now let's get you to 96, get you to Atlanta, where it was very hot, but what exactly were you covering at the Atlanta Olympics? Yeah. So I remember, I can remember vividly when I was told I was going and as you know, I'd been in the business by that point, you know, 15 years, and I've been at the network level only a couple of years. It took me a long time to get the opportunity to go point 15 years, and I've been at the network level only a couple of years.

It took me a long time to get the opportunity to go to the Olympics. And I remember getting the letter that I was going and then getting my baggage tags and my paraphernalia to go to Atlanta, and I was overcome. I was so like, I can't believe I'm finally going to the Olympics. It was awesome. And so then I was asked to go down to do these feature pieces with actually Scott Russell, Chris Cuthbert, Scott Oak, and myself. That's a dream team there.

That's like Mount Rushmore. Yeah, it's pretty good. We're all doing feature color pieces that ran during the broadcasts of the games. So I was traveling across Georgia with my cameraman and shooting all these really interesting pieces and prepping for the games. But the Monday before the opening ceremony, the initial assignment, to answer your question, was field hockey, women's field hockey, and field hockey. But Canada had a women's your question was field hockey women's field hockey

okay and field hockey but Canada had a women's team in the field hockey tournament and the second week was paddling so canoe and kayak so I was prepping for both of those and suddenly the Monday before the opening ceremony the one of the senior producers comes to me and he says okay so Sports Illustrated remember they did that big games these Olympic Games previews and they like every medal of every event. Remember that? Yes, yes. They picked the, and women's softball was making its Olympic debut in 96. And Sports Illustrated picked Canada to win the gold medal.

So our people go, oh, my gosh. Okay, Harrington, you're doing softball. Right. Okay. So, and I grew up in Newfoundland. There was a softball diamond about a five-minute walk from my house. So I watched a lot of softball in the evenings in the summertime and knew the game pretty well.

But I knew nothing about who was in it, who was in the tournament. Right. And plus, the games were being played in Columbus, Georgia, which is two hours away from Atlanta. So the only way that we were calling them was off a little tiny TV, off tube, as we used to say. Right. And so what I had to do in those four days, I was still cutting items and getting prepped for the opening ceremony and those feature pieces. I had to prep for softball suddenly. And they said, oh, yeah, you have to find a color guy.

Oh, great. How am I going to do that? So I found a color guy, a guy named Daryl Joy, who worked for Softball Canada. And he did the first game with me. We didn't call the whole game. We called parts of the game live. And he was fine. We did okay, you know, and they were happy. And then the IOC says, sorry, CBC, you can't use a guy who works in the sport who's doing the commentary.

Really? Yeah, I had no idea. But that must have changed, right? I feel like, isn't that commonplace? I actually don't know if that's the case now. However, it was then. And so they said, lose the guy. But why is that?

Like, is there a reason behind that that I'm just missing? I don't, I can think maybe of potential bias or they know stuff about the players. But there already is an inherent bias

on CBC covering the Olympics that, I'd like to think when I did it, there wasn't, but I don't, I understand where you're coming from on that. Right, you're right.

Yeah, you're right. So, but the long story short is I had to call this stuff on my own. So, in a little booth with a little tiny TV, and I had to keep score myself, and I had no analyst, and I had no ballpark in front of me. And so I did softball by myself that first week.

And I'll tell a little anecdote if I could. Sure. There was a game to be played between Canada and the U.S. which was delayed by rain on a Friday night, which didn't start until about quarter to 11 Eastern time. And it was supposed to start at 730. So CBC had a show, Brian Williams hosted a show, a live show from midnight to 2 a.m.,

which was a highlight show normally. However, on this night, they had live softball. So I called almost the entire game live, coast to coast, by myself, down the hall, in this little booth, a little tiny TV screen with little cards tacked to the walls around me to my reference notes and TV score and all the rest of it. And I got to tell you, man, it was like one of the, it's one of the highlights of my career.

I was on the deep, I was in the deep end and I didn't drown. Like when you're live coast to coast on your own, calling softball at the Olympics. Right. You know, yeah. Baptism by fire. You bet. Wow.

By the way, you mentioned Brian Williams, who came up actually in my episode earlier today of Michael Landsberg. Right. You know? Yeah. Baptism by fire. You bet. Wow. By the way, you mentioned Brian Williams, who came up actually in my episode earlier today of Michael Landsberg. I have many, many sports journalists on this program, and often I hear about the phone call they got from Brian Williams to compliment them on their effort and to give support, and then he would follow up. And it sounds like,

uh, Brian Williams went to great or goes to great length to support fellow broadcasters and up and coming and stuff. And I'm just curious, what are your experiences, uh, having worked with Brian Williams, uh,

on these Olympic games? Um, the first time I met him actually was, uh, Commonwealth games in 94 and in Victoria. And he, um, and Ron were the daytime and nighttime hosts.

And Brian was always, he's ever thus, like always had a word of encouragement. Or, you know, I remember doing the first, when I came to Toronto in 94, this is a really good example. I came to Toronto to live 26 years ago this year, 27 now, sorry. Anyway, one of the first things I did here was Blue Jays broadcast, Blue Jays baseball.

So I got asked to host. Remember they used to have a host role on Blue Jays broadcast? Maybe not, but anyway. Well, you mean like a Rod Black type? Yeah, but it was in the building. It was in the Rogers Center. So Brian would do play-by-play. The late John Cerruti was doing color, right?

And they had a host role. And so they asked me to do that. So the first, get this, the first Blue Jays game I ever saw in Sky Dome, I hosted. the late John Cerruti was doing color, right? And they had a host role. And so they asked me to do that. So the first, get this, the first Blue Jays game I ever saw in Skydome, I hosted. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. It's funny. I must have seen you do it and then I didn't connect the dots that that was you. I didn't do a lot of them. Don't worry about that. But I watched a lot of them. What was great though is, so I did my first uh telecast i did a

friday and a saturday night two two games right um and after the first one um brian came up to me and basically said you know awesome job and you know i'm sure you were nervous and all that stuff but you didn't show you knew your stuff and all that's a great job you know so that was the first time i'd ever i think i'd ever worked with him directly on a program like the commonwealth games is a little different so and he was always like that years after the fact, there were other experiences, whether in Atlanta and Nagano and other Olympics that we, when I did for sports, when he was very encouraging. And even after that, I, you know, I used to interview them when I did like obits of some of the CBC greats who passed like Don Whitman

or Ted Reynolds, people like that. I can always call on Brian to give us a good comment. He was always very helpful. Very, very generous guy. And he, ironically, or interestingly enough, my brother, my older brother Paul, he worked at CBC for many years. Then he retired early and went freelancing, and he ended up working at TSN quite a bit. And he became Brian's producer for about eight years. Wow.

Including Victor. I heard you had, like, I know you mentioned your dad, but I heard you had, like, CBC in your family history, like with your siblings. My sisters, both my sisters and my brother and myself, I have an older brother, Michael, in Newfoundland. And the four of us here in Toronto at one point all worked at CBC. In fact, one night on the National, I followed my sister in the newscast. Wow.

Which I don't think has happened too often. Yeah. That might be a first. It might have been a first, yeah. And you mentioned Don Whitman. It's his voice we hear in our heads when we hear the Donovan Bailey 100 meter. Yeah, he was great.

Amazing. It always wowed me how much he could say or not say in 10 seconds and convey the moment and tell you what was happening, even though it happens that quickly. There's very few people who could have done that. And, of course, the call on the relay, you know, if you're Canadian Love Saturday Nights in Georgia, I mean, what a line.

Like, that's one of the greatest lines in broadcast history in this country. Seriously here, I'm doing a quick Google here, standby here. Let's see here if I can find, let's see if I can find this. Hold on here. Okay, okay. I'll, maybe I'll, it find this. Hold on here. Okay, okay. Maybe I'll... It's just riveting content here, but... You're looking that call up?

Yeah, I know. I didn't think to load it up earlier, but maybe I'll try to hunt it down a little bit later in the show, but it would be amazing to hear it right now. Yeah. It's memorable. But everybody who's listening now hears that in their heads. We don't have to play it. They can to hear it right now. Yeah. It's memorable. But everybody who's listening now

hears that in their heads. We don't have to play it. They can recite it word for word. And as I watch these Olympics now, I do obviously miss Don Whitman, but he sadly can't do it. But I do wish there was a role for, I know he doesn't work for the CBC,

but I wish there was a role for Brian Williams. Like it does feel strange when you have these Olympic events and Brian Williams is not a part of it. Yeah, although, it's amazing to think about this, but he actually hasn't been at CBC now since 2006. I know. 15 years.

So, and, you know, people like Scott, for example, Scott Russell, our friend, has, you know, done a great job taking over that mantle. It's not easy, right? Like, you know, when you're in a position to take over a role that somebody really well-known or legendary had, it's very difficult. It's like being Aaron Rodgers to Brett Favre or, you know, whoever's. And so, I mean, I went to Marketplace to replace Wendy Mesley. So, you know, that's not an easy pair of pumps to fill. So, you know, I think there's a real challenge, but Scott's done well.

But, yeah, I mean, I think people missed Brian initially, but once other people came in to do that role, and Diana Swain's done it too, at least one Olympics. So the CBC has a lot of talented people who picked up the baton, as they say. No doubt, no doubt. Absolutely. But Brian Williams was something special there, so we're going to miss him.

Hey, I saw a note that you're a four-time Gemini Award nominee for Best Sports Host. Yeah. And I'm curious, do you remember who beat you each time? No, actually, so here's a little... So I'm actually an 11-time nominee for either a Gemini or a Canadian Screen Award.

Wow. Two of those are for Marketplace, the rest are for sports. And four of them, as you mentioned, were for Sports Broadcaster. I think one year... Ron McLean, maybe? Ron one year, Brian two years, and Scott Russell one year. Yeah, and... Are you the Stephen... Sorry, the Susan Lucci? Yeah, I like to think

of myself as that, yes. Yeah, no, you know, as I say, getting nominated is pretty important. And actually, having been inside the process, it actually is really difficult to get nominated. So, you know, being nominated 11 times for the uh for the honor and and i'm really proud of the fact that i was nominated for both marketplace and for sports right because i'm always been a big believer in versatility and showing that you can work in any kind of milieu and any kind of subject matter so um that i'm proud of by the way when you were in

atlanta for the olympics did you manage to get yourself in the building for the 100-meter final? No. I mean, unless you were basically accredited. I mean, we had what they called the universal pass, so you could go anywhere. Plus, you're working in other sports, and you're prepping. You can't really be there as much as you want to be there. I mean, my attitude was I was there to work, so I wasn't going to go there just to watch an event. I had stuff to do to prepare and that kind of thing.

So I watched it on TV. In fact, Steve Harmadage and I were at the hotel at Emory University in Atlanta, and we watched in the little lounge they had there together and watched the race. And it's great to hear Steve, by the way, on the air too, doing the games this time around. So yeah, I wasn't there for that or the relay again

because I was working on another event. And another event. And another event that happened, not as happy an event as we're talking about with Donovan Bailey winning gold, but the bombing, of course. Right. So what happened when that happened? That's suddenly a convergence of sports and news, as we say. And that was a big, big event. It was. So we were leaving the broadcast center that night at around, I think it was around 11.30, because the days are long.

And I was in a crowded cab with two or three other people, I think one other host I think, and a couple of producers, maybe a researcher. We were all packed into a cab. So we had left the broadcast center, which is right next door to the Centennial Olympic Plaza. And we were on a highway. We had left the broadcast center, which is right next door to the Centennial Olympic Plaza. And we were on a highway. We had left probably five minutes. And suddenly I heard this big, this boom. And I thought to myself, that doesn't sound right. And I told the cabbie to turn on the radio.

And within moments, the radio station was saying there's been some kind of explosion at Centennial Olympic Plaza. So I told the cab driver to turn around, to go back. And, well, I cleared it with the guys in the back. I said, do you mind if we go back? Because they're going to need some help. Something big may have happened. So we went back to the, tried to get back to the broadcast center. But even by the time we made that U-turn, headed back, we were about maybe less than a half a mile away.

We couldn't get there. It was already closed off. So there's not much I could do. I remember Allison Smith, a colleague and friend of mine, she was on the air for hours, did extraordinary coverage of that because things were locked down. It was difficult.

But yeah, that was quite a moment. But the fact the games continued was also a moment to remember as well. Yeah, without a doubt. But that was scary. That's for sure. That was a scary moment. And yeah, the show went on.

But yeah. So what other Olympics? 96 in Atlanta, but which other Olympics? So I did 98, Nagano, Winter Games. I was doing freestyle skiing then because I did freestyle skiing as a commentator for CBC Sports in the 90s. And so I did that, called that live as well.

That was pretty cool. 2000 in Sydney, I was the trackside reporter and the poolside reporter. So I'd interview the swimmers after the races and then did the trackside reporters in the track interviews as well at Track and Field. So that was my job for two weeks, which was fantastic. And it was actually decided, I don't know if you remember this,

do you remember when Donovan won the gold and he was supposed to come to us first, CBC, the rights holders and the winning country, but NBC grabbed him. And all that happened live on TV. I don't know if you remember that. Yeah, I don't remember that. Yeah, so it was awkward.

Ron was down there to do the interview and Bailey was trying to get to him, but the NBC guys wouldn't let him. And Ron was kind of trying to coax him over, and it was all carried live. Anyway, so because of that, the network did not want to be put in the situation where they'd have different people there all the time. They said, okay, we're going to have one person at track and one person at pool all the time, and you're it.

I said, okay. So I was at the pool morning, noon, and night, and at the track morning, noon, and night. What happened last night, our night, I guess that's pool morning, noon, and night, and at the track morning, noon, and night. What happened last night, our night, I guess that's a morning in Tokyo, but I noticed that when DeGrasse won his heat, or no, I don't think he won the heat, actually. He might have come in second,

but he qualified for the semis last night. And then he said no to the CBC guy. He just said he took a pass on that. And that's the first time I noticed an athlete, you know, taking a pass on those trackside chats. Trust me, they don't.

They always take passes. Believe me. Okay, maybe I just didn't notice it. Maybe it's because I was so eager to hear what he had to say. And also because

Andre's extremely cooperative, right? And he's willing to talk almost all the time. So I think it told me a little bit that he's feeling the pressure because that's a break

in routine. But athletes do what they have to do to sort of maintain it. I mean, I thought, well, you know, he's got his pressure uh because he's that's a break in routine but you know athletes do what they have to do to sort of well that's it like i mean i thought well you know he's got his priorities in order i suppose but and i also thought like how much time does it take to do those track side things like you said you know three minutes to talk to the home well it's interesting okay so let me put throw this out at you so the whole fuss around naomi osaka right yeah okay so one of the reasons she gave is she didn't like going into these post-game interviews where these press conferences where they she feels the reporter's questions tend to

be negative right and they drag her down spiritually and emotionally one could argue that what i don't have no idea i'm just purely spitballing here but you know he could be in a situation where the reporter might ask questions that are not comfortable that he doesn't want to think about that he doesn't want to deal with and he's in the zone he's trying to get in the zone because remember yeah because his semis are later that day, right? Yeah. That's the way it works. And in the semi, if you notice,

he ran his best time ever in the 200. Yes, at a Canadian world record. So you can't argue with that. Yeah. And having done the job of Nick's zone, I have so many stories just of that in Sydney, of what I dealt with on the pool and the track and field. Like this is the place to share any interesting stories of that nature.

Well, okay, here's a good example. So in Sydney, the most prominent athlete in the country was this woman named Kathy Freeman who ran the 400. She lit the Olympic flame in the opening ceremony, and she was what they called in those days an Aborigine. She was an Aboriginal person in Australia. So symbolically, she was what they called in those days an aborigine she was an aboriginal uh person in australia so sure so symbolically she was really huge so leading up to the 400 um there was a her biggest rival was this woman named marie jose parek who um you know was definitely

going to challenge her for the gold but parek had some issues off the track and ended up leaving sydney before the events even began controversy with her coach and her partner was very messy. Anyway, so the field was pretty much wide open for Cathy Freeman to win. Still, you have to do it in your home country. So when she would run the heats, she would never talk to anybody. She didn't even talk to Seven Network, which is the rights holders in Australia.

She walked by everybody in the mixed zone, didn't talk to anybody. So I thought to myself, okay, that's interesting. I think partly because she could have had a Naomi Osaka moment and said, I don't want to talk to anybody right so i thought to myself okay that's interesting like i think partly because you know if she she could have had a naomi osaka moment and said i don't want to talk to you people right because i don't want to feel the way you're going to make me feel right okay so she doesn't say anything in the mixed zone until the race so i gotta tell you so that night like stadium australia had 110 000 people the biggest stadium ever built for the olympics packed packed with people the aussies love sports and they showed up to everything right so her race is coming up and so they they walk on

the track she's wearing a full green bodysuit with a hood uh and she gets in the blocks and it's like you know there's a roar of people in anticipation and then the starter goes set like this, and the place goes like mute. 110,000 people, dead, quiet. Right. And then whoosh. It's like, oh, what a moment. Two seconds of silence of 110,000 people is pretty amazing. Everyone holding their breath, yeah. And I'm trackside, literally not too far from the finish line.

And the run begins, and she's circling around, and she's leading the whole way. And as she goes by, there are flashbulbs going. And it's like you know where she is on she's leading the whole way and as she goes by, there are flashbulbs going and it's like, you know where she is on the track because the bulbs are flashing as she goes by. So it's a strobe effect,

like a wave that follows her right around the track. She wins, the place goes bonkers and she stops and sits down. Just sits, you know,

like on her haunches. Yeah. Pulls the hood off and just sits there for like 30 seconds. Right. And doesn't do anything. Just sits there.

It's like everything just like, it's oozing out of her, all the tension, all the, everything that had built up. Wow. So she finally, then she does a lap around the track and then she comes to the mix zone and she stops for everybody. Now in this situation, you basically have two questions.

That's all. It's certainly, if you're not the Aussie broadcaster, you only have two questions. Right. So I thought of quite a while what I was going to ask her. Right. So the first thing I said to her when she came to me was, I described sort of the setup of Parekh,

and the morning of the race, the Sydney Morning Herald, the biggest paper in the country, had the full page, not the above the full, the full page was the race of her life. Right. Was for Freeman. The morning of the race, like, holy, anyway, I can't believe how much pressure was on her. There may have been no other athlete who'd have more pressure at a home games than her. So she comes to me and I say, look, the morning paper, the whole thing, I said,

how did you keep from going insane? And she lets out this big sort of cackly laugh, right? And she's, and she talked about relying on her family and friends and her coach and keeping yourself centered and that sort of thing. And then I said to her, I said, you know, you've become a symbol for Aboriginal people in the country. How significant is this gold medal for that cause? And she looked at me like no one had asked her that question at that point, right? And she gave a really powerful answer. And then she said i said thank you and she said thank you wow and he just said you know so stuff like that i love that oh no great story too here great great story wow and uh is that your last olympics you covered uh no i did three for sports and then um i left network sports because i was frustrated

because i wasn't part of the a teamteam. I did everything they asked, and I really couldn't break through to be part of the bigger, like with Scott and Scott and Chris and those guys. So I went to news, and I said, I'll keep doing it. I was doing Sports Journal. If you remember that show, it was a documentary show I did on News World for seven years. It was like a current affair. It was like Fifth Estate of Sports. I hosted that for seven years. And so I was doing that, and I was doing sports news for the years. It was like a current affair. It was like fifth estate of sports. I hosted that for seven years. And so I was doing that and I was doing sports news for the national. I said,

I'll come to work just for news, but you have to pay the rest of my salary because they were splitting my salary. And they said, okay. So I left sports and I went to news full-time and to do sports for news, sports journalism. And so I did continue doing sports journal from 97 to 2004 and then filing for the national and then when um in 2004 they canceled sports journal and so the national came to me and said we want you to be the national sports reporter and so i did that for six years wow okay so before we get you to marketplace i alluded to it earlier uh i mentioned i have gifts for you uh this is i don't know how you're gonna uh share this with neil that's up to you but i'm gonna uh give give you, there's a sticker on top of the red box in front of you. That's a Toronto Mike sticker.

Oh, yeah. That's courtesy of StickerU.com. Oh, cute. So they make great stickers and decals. And go to StickerU.com. They're based in Liberty Village. Quality stuff. Great, great, great company.

It's a nice logo, man. Yeah, yeah. My wife designed that logo. Nice. So shout out to Monica. The red box is empty. But in my freezer, I do have a large frozen large meat lasagna for you,

courtesy of Palma Pasta. Oh, wow. Where's that? Palma Pasta is in Mississauga and Oakville. Okay. They have four locations. Go to palmapasta.com. Nice.

Again, another family-run business, but just the most authentic Italian food you're going to buy in a store here in Canada. And I promise you, you'll be sending me a note whenever you decide to cook it up and just say that is the best lasagna you've ever got. Molto bene. There you go. Palma pasta. There's hand sanitizer in front of the red box, courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home.

They've been pillars of this community since 1921, and they're fantastic supporters of the program, helping to fuel the real talk. Great Lakes Brewery, Fresh Craft Beer. I've heard of them. They're going to host TMLX8, which is the Toronto Mic Listener Experience number eight. This is happening at 6 p.m. on August 27. That's a Friday night coming up in a few weeks.

So from 6 to 9 p.m., we'll be gathering. Us FOTMs will gather on the patio of Great Lakes Brewery. This is, again, an event where listeners get together, but also it'll be the final... I know this is very interesting to you, Tom. I know you're like, what's he going to say here? But the final episode of our Pandemic Friday series, because when the pandemic began in mid-March 2020,

me, Stu Stone, and Cam Gordon, we decided we would do a weekly show until this thing ended. And we've decided this, whether the pandemic ends or not, we can't control that, but it's time to end our Pandemic Friday episodes. So the finale of Pandemic Friday will record live at TMLX8. And Tom, if you're around the evening of, I said August 27,

love to have you there. Great Lakes is going to buy you your first beer. So that's on the house for all FOTMs who show up. I'm talking to Palma Pasta about catering the event. Great fun. We'll be outdoors, nice and safe. And everyone listening, of course, is also invited. So put that in your calendars.

Very kind. Thanks. And I didn't ask you, but like, and you don't have to be too specific, but like what neighborhood did you commute from to do this recording? Like whereabouts do you live in the I live on the Danforth. Reminds me of the old apartment by the Barenaked Ladies. They bought an old house on the Danforth.

Okay. So you're, that's like a, not East York. It depends what side, right? If you're East York. Yeah, no, I'm South. First of all, I'm South and I'm on just West of Pape. So you're in Toronto there. Okay.

If you do get the itch to move to this neck of the woods, I urge you to talk to Mike Majeski. I sometimes call him Mimico Mike. Realestatelove.ca is how you reach out to Mike Majeski. Just sometimes call him Mimico Mike. realestatelove.ca is how you reach out to Mike Majeski. Just tell him that Toronto Mike sent you. He's been ripping up the Mimico real estate scene, but it turns out he buys and sells, helps buy and sell in more than just Mimico, but he's kicking butt in Mimico.

And last but not least, I just want to thank McKay CEO Forums. This summer, they're helping to fuel the real talk as well. They have a fantastic podcast I urge everyone to check out. It's called the CEO Edge Podcast, fireside chats with inspiring CEOs and thought leaders. On torontomike.com, every week I share the latest episode and you can find subscription links there.

Subscribe, give it a go, help the people at McKay CEO Forums and then also help Toronto Mike. So thank you to all the partners we have on this program that let me have these long form conversations with people like Tom Harrington. Oh, and of course, Ridley Funeral Home. Oh, I did mention Ridley Funeral Home,

but they are online at ridley funeral home.com tom you end up at um marketplace in 2010 yeah um so my um i you know i'd done sports at that point for 27 years and i'd done um i'd done the olympic games uh did i actually did the last one i did was 2010 and i was in whistler uh for the 2010. Oh, okay, so before we, maybe we'll go back to that for a moment before we get to the marketplace because that is like when you script up an Olympics, that's how you'd script it, right? I feel like that was pretty ideal, how it all transpired. Yeah, I did.

I mean, I ended up doing eight Olympics in total and the last five were for news and I did, the last one was in Vancouver, Whistler. I was in Whistler for the whole event, which was a great place to be. And we didn't, we weren't rights holders. So it was a different experience to not have the games. Right. Because that was a CTV.

CTV, TSN thing. Yeah. That's why Brian Williams got to work. That's right. And that's also, I think one of the reasons he, I mean, one of the reasons he may have left in 2006 was because he knew that the Olympics were going to a CTV. Well, I think that was a huge, huge, huge reason. Yeah, no, he was going to miss the games otherwise.

So, but anyway, that was my last one. And then I'm a big soccer guy. And my last assignment was the World Cup in South Africa. So I was in South Africa for about a month and a half, six weeks, again, for the national and for CBC News World and as it was called in those days. And so filing on that tournament, I was actually at the final when holland lost to spain holland is my team and um so that was pretty amazing to be at the world cup final so that was my last one but i knew that when i came home i was going to work at marketplace and basically what had happened was

they had they had approached me months earlier and asked if i was interested in the job because wendy was leaving and uh i really wanted to do something else i'd done sports for a long time i'd done sports journal the national everything else and i really there wasn do something else. I'd done sports for a really long time. I'd done Sports Journal, The National, everything else, and there weren't too many more mountains to climb. I could have continued to do it. It would have been fine, but I felt like I needed to do more, and I felt I could do more.

I was already hosting The Current as it happens and filling in on shows like that and hosting on News World, so my interests were broader than sports, and so I wanted the chance to do something different. Anyway, they approached me, and Marketplace was a well-known show my brother actually was the executive producer for three years before I got there but um and uh so I knew how important the program was and it was really a

CBC show a real great franchise but it was struggling when I got there they their their seasons have been reduced to about seven shows uh and uh anyway they asked me if I would come to work there and I said yep so I came I started working in the fall of 2010. And I spent five seasons there with the show, which eventually became, returned to becoming a full season show, had ratings that it hadn't had since the 70s. And I really learned a lot, had a lot of fun.

But again, it was one of those things where I'd gone from sports, which is a specialty in its own way, to consumer journalism, which is another kind of specialty. And I really wanted to do something that opened the world to me. And so when I left and went to radio, it was because I had the chance to cover the whole world, which was something I was interested in. And that was 2015 when you went to World This Hour. Wow. Okay. So what I enjoyed as a young man was the junior version

of Marketplace, Street Sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love Street Sense. Jonathan Torrance. Jonathan Torrance was there. Super talented guy. Jeez, that guy. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. He raps. Yeah, yeah.

And he was great in Jerry D's show. Yeah, Mr. D. Sure, no, that guy. Even when they made a Degrassi reunion movie, he got to play the role of Shane, as I remember. Oh, okay. I watched Degrassi. I love Degrassi reunion movie. He got to play the role of Shane, as I remember. I watched Degrassi. I love Degrassi.

Well, Shane was the father of Spike's baby. And then he dropped LSD, I think, and thought he could fly or something. I feel he had... I can't remember that part. He became... I was a big... Well, the first generation. I was a big fan of the Degrassi series there.

But he got to come in. I don't know what happened to the original actor who played Shane, but Torrens got to take over that role too. So he's all over the place. But yeah, Marketplace, very cool. So five years at Marketplace and then The World This Hour. Yeah.

So totally different, back to radio. I mean, I spent my first full-time job at CBC was radio sports in Montreal. So in a way, I was sort of coming around full circle and, you know, the senior service. And growing up, you know, I grew up in Newfoundland where CBC radio is really important. And the fact that I've, in my career, been able to host As It Happens and World at Six and World Report and The Current. And, you know, so I've been able to do all the cross-country checkup, all the big radio shows. So going to CBC radio was kind of the last thing.

And the one thing I hadn't done, Mike, was I had never done an election in my career. And I've always wanted to be part of an election coverage. And I've done now two U.S. elections and one Canadian election. And we may be doing another one in the fall. But that's kind of the Olympics of the news business. It's exciting, right? It is. Election night is really exciting.

You've got to prep and all the rest of it. You have to be thinking on your feet, but that's the great thing about live radio or live television is what it calls upon in terms of your skill set, which I've always loved. Now, CBC Radio is still very important in my household. I own two, believe it or

not, real radios. Yes. One's in the bathroom and one's in the kitchen. I'm not asking Google Home to play play whatever these are actual radios and uh other than once in a while one of the radios comes out here so i can listen to blue jay games when i'm out here but other than that they're both like glued to uh 99.1 listening to cbc radio so it's like it's all that's very important i still love that as it happens theme song yeah and like even

the toronto mike theme song was me talking to a local rapper producer named Ill Vibe and saying, I'm looking for a modern, funky theme song for my podcast. It's kind of like the theme song to As It Happens. The first time I ever did the show, and I do the role that Carol Loft does now as the questioner, not the host. But the first time I did it was 2005, August 2005. And I remember sitting in the chair, and one of the first interviews I actually did, recorded for my first show, was Dan Rather talking about Peter Jennings, who just passed away. And I remember doing that interview with him, taping as we do all the interviews and as it happens and and remember you know thanking him and he said thank you mr harrington i'm going i'm telling my mother guess dan rather call me

mr harrington anyway um he so i did that first show and i sat in the chair for the for the library the first part of the show or the show goes live to the east coast right at 5 30 right so um i'm sitting in the chair and that music plays and this is the older version before they updated it. And I'm sitting there, and I'm saying my name over the music, and my inner voice is going, holy. Yeah, yeah, that's got to be a moment. Oh, my God. Are you kidding?

It's like, yeah, it blew my mind. It's like when I was at the Olympics in 96, and I was sitting there when I was at the opening ceremony, and I had stories and features all over the opening ceremonies, and I called my wife at home crying because I'd made it. And so when those moments happen, especially at CBC, if you've grown up with it the way I did

and you do these big shows and these programs and you're the guy, it's pretty heady stuff. So shout out to Mo Kaufman. Yeah. Courage Soul is the name of the As It Happens theme song here.

How is, this is a tough one for you to answer because you've been there for so long but I'm just curious because sometimes you'll read things and you'll hear about like death by a thousand cuts How is, this is a tough one for you to answer because you've been there for so long. But I'm just curious, because sometimes you'll read things and you'll hear about like death by a thousand cuts. But how's the health of, well, the CBC and particularly CBC radio?

Well, I would say, first of all, radio, the radio audience, glad to hear you have radios and listen. That's always great to hear. Two of them, not counting the car. There's a third in the car. You plug in and everything. So the radio audience is shrinking.

Right. The number of people listening to traditional radio is shrinking, but the percentage of those listeners listening to CBC is bigger than it's ever been. The share, in other words, is bigger than it's ever been. And because it's available, like our newscast is, the most uploaded CBC program in June was my show, was The World is Sour. Oh, downloaded.

Downloaded, sorry, yeah. And so, like, that's pretty good because you basically have to choose to listen to us that way. And those lists, unlike the radio listeners who it's on in the background, maybe they take a call, maybe they go in and out. And I know this as a, I've been podcasting for nine

years here, but your podcast listener is an attentive listener. Like they'll pause your show to take the phone call and they'll take you on when they walk the dog or they go on a bike ride or whatever. I think radio people, P1, is that the term? I don't know. P1 listener, bottom line is super attentive. Yes.

You know, listening to every word you say, listener. So in terms of the audience is shrinking, as I said, so the CBC radio itself as a medium in this country is still relevant and important. I mean, certainly it's not the same as it was when I started in 81, so 40 years ago. CBC English Services, which is basically radio and television, and that's all, had 12,000 employees.

Now it's less than 5,000. And we're doing more, right? So we have, you know, our journalists today will be assigned a story and they will do two or three TV versions, two radio versions, an online version, and they'll have to tweet, that sort of thing. And a lot of them have to cut their own stuff, shoot their own stuff, that sort of thing. The days of multiple reporters showing up at events like they did in the olden days doesn't happen anymore when i started national radio news had its own correspondent local radio news had their own tv had its own now everybody does

everything so that's why you see somebody at um on radio you hear them on the world at six but you also hear them on the national doing the tv version that's that's the way it is now for us so we're doing more with less uh in terms of resources so that's the challenge for us is to, is to still cover the world and to cover the country with shrinking resources. And I know this is a, this is a topic that of great interest to people and the budget and how much money is spent on CBC. All I'll say is that in terms of public broadcasting, the CBC is the almost the least funded per capita in the world.

And we're in six time zones in like six languages. Um, and we're doing multiple services. There are places that are in one time zone with one language doing a couple, a couple of services who have more money per capita than we are provided with. So, and, and,

and we're also a big target. People like to hit on us, but also people love us. And, uh, so there's a lot, you know, I,

I'm on Twitter a lot. That's my place where I live on social media. And CBC Tom, that's me. And, I'm on Twitter a lot. That's my place where I live on social media. Right, CBC Tom. That's me. And I get a lot of, you know, you get pushback from people and snide remarks and all that, but also get lots of kudos and shout-outs. That's the way it is, and it's been like that forever in my years at CBC.

I've seen a lot. I lost my job once at CBC, so that's a long time ago. So I've sort of been down that road early in my career. It's difficult. The challenges are still there. I'm going to be done with this in a couple more years, and then hopefully it will still be a very dynamic and relevant place. Yeah, well, you're not alone at CBC in terms of doing more with less.

Just ask, if I have over like a Toronto Star reporter, like Dave Perkins, for example, who's retired now. But when he tells me the number of bodies that were sent to Atlanta for the 1992 World Series, and then you have on, I don't know, Gregor Chisholm, and then find out like how many bodies would be, if the Jays make the World Series this year, it's just night and day, right?

In terms of human resources, etc yeah etc um did i also will say uh because again i'm a i like cbc radio and i'm glad it's around and i'm i'm with you but i also when i hear people who will say you know defund it uh you know get rid of it there's often a commonality in terms of um how do i say on the political spectrum from the people who hate the CBC. Like this sense or this belief that there's some kind of a capital L liberal bias at the CBC, which maybe it's my own perspective

where I don't detect this myself. But it does have this perception amongst those who support the Conservative Party, etc., that you guys at CBC are anti-Conservative Party somehow. I don't personally hear it, but you must hear this a million times a day. Yeah, I mean, you hear it, again, certainly on social media, and you see defund CBC hashtag occurring fairly regularly. And, you know, we live inc hashtag occurring um fairly regularly and um you know we live in a democracy and people have their views and um it's as i said we're a big target and uh so you know people will make these accusations i mean i don't i mean as i said

i've been 40 years cbc and when when governments change the the corporation doesn't really change right like it is what it is and people i can't get 10 people to agree to go to lunch. So the idea that we're, you know, we're somehow cabaled in a room deciding what to cover and that it's got to be a certain way and all that, you know, journalists are like fiercely independent. They don't like to be told anything about what to do, right? So the idea that we have our marching orders

from either party or for whatever reason is, I think it's a stretch, but, you know, people have deeply held views one way or the other and I sure as heck can't change those but all I know is that I'm proud to work at CBC I've been my whole career I think we do important work and we were an important institution in the country and if if it wasn't there then I don't think I think we'd be the poorer for it so let's move beyond the Cc here uh what about the health of the new of news and news in general in this country like over the last week uh sitting where you're sitting right now

there was a mike apple who's at he does stuff at city news and 680 uh farah nasser was here and she's a big bfd as i say global news right so uh i like So are we in danger of... News is so important to a functioning, healthy democracy. And I just wonder, at some point, are we in trouble with the state of news in this country? Well, I don't think we're dealing with the extremes and the toxic extremes that you see in the United States. And, you know, as you know, living here, as I think Peter Trudeau said, if the

Americans sneeze, we get a cold. So we can't help but see what's happening down there. And people are on social media and Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and following their favorite sites and watching their favorite programs. You know, certainly when I came into the business, you didn't have cable news. Actually, CNN did go on the air when I started at Western in 1980. And there were no other channels like that. The main newscasts of CBS and NBC and ABC were the big ones. In Canada, it was CBC and CTV. And Global was mostly a regional network at that point.

It wasn't a full network, I don't believe, back in the early 80s. It sort of emerged more when you saw people like the late Peter Truman, rest in peace, and others with Global becoming a more national institution and competitor. So I don't think we have the extremes. I think there are extremes on both sides in the country politically, obviously, but in terms of news, I don't think it's a coincidence that Sun TV wasn't successful because ostensibly it was kind of a Fox North version, you know, and it didn't last.

It didn't get the subscribers. I think mainly because the country is, the vast majority of people in the country are in the middle. We're just not a country of extremes and are extremists. They're not saying they're not there. And so that, I think you see that reflected in some parts of the media and, you know, you hear those voices. And there are voices, we have to hear kind of all of them,

and it's important to hear all kinds of viewpoints, and there are people who see the world differently from you. That's okay. It's kind of the tone of that dialogue that's important. Is it respectful? Are people actually listening to each other? Obviously, nobody wants me to talk about this because we have our friend next door doing some work.

And yes, it is a grind. But anyway, ultimately, the environment we're in, I think we're a little bit above that kind of really white-hot debate in American media, which is quite disturbing, actually. And you're really right. I mean, an informed electorate is a better electorate and a better democracy. And so I think, and I think the fact that people do, and I think people attack the other guys too, you know, they attack us for the obvious reason, because a large part of our money comes from the government, but they attack the other guys too. But the fact is we're all Canadian, our prime time schedule is Canadian, and our news tends to be Canadian-driven.

Well, Tom, glad we're in the homestretch here because, yeah, the construction has started next door. That's the one thing about these unidirectional mics is we will hear you clearly, and then there'll be this wonderful ambient buzzing behind you, but homestretch here. That's not a cicada yeah big moment in the uh in nhl recently when luke prokop uh he became the first player under nhl contract to come out as a proud gay man and this kind of this came up a little earlier when we were talking about the dubbin inquiry inquiry and charlie francis and you were talking about how you sometimes you would have information off the record that you can't put out in public, right?

This is part of being a journalist, and there's a code of conduct and all this stuff, ethics and stuff like that. So you tweeted something fascinating to me. You said, and I'll quote your tweet, and then we'll have you speak to it, but you wrote, More than 20 years ago, I was working on a possible story through a go-between on an NHL player at the time. So well known, he worried I'd recognize his voice. Never came out.

Remains anonymous. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So that was probably 1999, I think. Yeah. And it was an organization that started back then, which was started by a guy in Toronto, a lawyer. And it was basically a kind of a support group

for professional athletes who were gay. Not so much for amateur athletes. There were already a couple of organizations that were back then, they were already looking out for the rights and concerns of the LGBTQ community. But this was aimed particularly at professional athletes. So, which I thought was fascinating.

So I talked to him about it. I wanted to do a story on it, but it's kind of hard to do that when you can't talk to any of the subjects, the key subjects. But anyway, he and I stayed in contact for quite some time. And at one point, I said to him, you know, have you made contact with people

in the pro sports world who are closeted and might consider discussing the possibility of, you know, anyway, he said yes. So over a period of several months, we spoke occasionally, exchanged emails, and on a couple of people. One was in management, and one was a player. And he said this player was prominent. He said the player was so concerned about getting his voice, his voice would be recognized, that he wanted to buy a device to mask his voice on the phone. And I kept telling this go-between,

this person with the organization, I said, I'm not going to out him. I just want to start a conversation. I'm not going to have a camera. I'm not going to record anything. I just want to begin the process to see what he'd be prepared to do. So this conversation went on, off and on, for about six or seven months. And finally, you know, I was saying, what are we going to do? And the guy

basically said he changed his mind and that he wasn't going to do it. And there was another person, another male hockey executive who was an executive at a minor league club, who I think was a former player, but not NHL player who was also closeted. And he seemed on the verge of wanting to talk about his experience, but he also backed out. So this is, as I said, more than 20 years ago. And the fact that Luke did that, which is so tremendous, I often said who might be the, as I said, the Jackie Robinson of the in gay sports,

who might be the person that sort of break the barrier. Luke will be maybe that guy in hockey. I always thought, to be honest, Mike, that hockey would be the most natural place for people to come out, only because, first of all, most players are Canadian. I've discussed this issue with baseball players, and they tend to be more reluctant to talk about it. I remember when the Blue Jays had their first Rainbow Night,

half the players I talked to, I went up to a bunch of different Blue Jays to ask them their views, and they wouldn't talk to talk about it. I remember when the Blue Jays had their first Rainbow Night, half the players I talked to, I went up to a bunch of different Blue Jays to ask them their views, and they wouldn't talk to me. Interesting. Yeah, and J.P. Ricciardi went on the record. The manager, Rick, I forgot his name now. The manager of the club wouldn't do an interview to talk about it, and J.P. Ricciardi did.

So I did the story, and one of the other players. It's not Tim Johnson, is it? No, it wasn't Tim Johnson. It was... Oh, anyway, gosh. It's pre-John Gibbons. No, it was Gibbons. Okay, it was John Gibbons.

Gibby. He was very pleasant, but he just didn't want to talk about it. So that was... And that was probably 15 years ago. So the idea that, you know, sports, the last closet, as we did a documentary on this on Sports Journal back in the late 90s, how society's last closet was professional sports. Not, you know, male team sports. Yes.

Not tennis or golf or male team sports, which, like the military and like other male-dominated institutions, tends to not change very quickly on these issues. Pro sports has been a lot like that. And there have been athletes who've come out subsequently who are not the most prominent. And does it matter if they're prominent or not? Maybe not, but I do think it's the kind of thing that gets people's attention. But as often people say and responded to that tweet,

hopefully this won't be news anymore. That's it, right? So this will stop being newsworthy, hopefully. But it is kind of amazing that Luke is the... And Luke, again, up-and-comer. He's not in the NHL. He's under NHL contract. Right, he's been drafted,

and he could end up being... I hear he's a pretty good player. I don't know. Do you know if he's related to Skip Prokop? I'm trying to find out. I wonder, yeah, yeah. That's a lighthouse reference for people. That's a lighthouse reference.

Right, right, right. Tom, amazing. Like, I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Is there anything, like, when you were driving here, were you thinking, oh, I want to tell this story? Is there anything you left on the cutting room floor that you want to share with the listenership? I had a blast.

But if you have anything in the... Yeah, no, I probably bored everybody to death at this point. Yeah, no, I know. You want to sing a song to play us out? Yeah, that's all they need. Haven't they suffered enough? No, I really enjoyed it. Mike, I'm really flattered you wanted to sing a song to play us out? Yeah, that's all they need. Haven't they suffered enough? No, I really enjoyed it. Mike, I'm really flattered you wanted to talk to me,

and I don't get to talk about this kind of stuff very often, so it was a real pleasure. So let me get this right. The Tommy Hunter Show, Reach for the Top, and now Toronto Mic'd. That's the trifecta. The trifecta, totally. I've done it, man.

And you know, I'm proud to tell you, I'm happy to tell you that you're the first person to do all three of those shows. I've had other Reach I've done it, man. And you know, I'm proud to tell you, I'm happy to tell you that you're the first person to do all three of those shows. I've had other Reach for the Top people, I believe Mike Stafford and others, but to do Tommy Hunter, Reach for the Top, and Toronto Mike, I believe you're the first. At Marketplace.

Of course, at Marketplace. Which is a great show. But now again, I hear you on CBC Radio hosting The World This Hour. You do a great show. But now again, I hear you on CBC Radio hosting the World This Hour. You do a great job. You have that gravitas to your voice. Long may you run. And you mentioned you had a few years to go or whatever.

Are you now dreaming of retirement? Is that what you're... Well, I have basically, officially. I'm about a year and a half away from turning the big 65. So I may... We'll see where I am in the spring of 2023, but I'm still going to, as the music sounds, great song. Great song. You're a Lois of the Lo fan.

Yeah. I may not know who they are, but when I hear the song, I say, great tune, right? I'm a tune guy rather than a band guy, I guess. This is from Shakespeare, My Butt, in the early 90s. I close every episode of Toronto Mic'd with

Lois and Lo, but Tom, thanks for doing this, buddy. Thanks, my pleasure. It's been a pleasure, and it gave me a reason to wear this shirt. Yeah. And that, that brings us to the end of our 896th show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. Tom is at CBC Tom. Follow him. He's a good follow. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. I hope to see everybody on August 27th at the patio of Great Lakes. McKay CEO Forums. They Lakes. McKay CEO Forums. They're at McKay CEO Forums.

Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike, he's Mike Majeski. He's Mike Majeski Homes on Instagram. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone.

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