Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Toronto Mike on Bob's Basement

Episode Date: January 7, 2021

To kick off 2021 Bob's Basement goes big. The one and only Toronto Mike talks all things change. Toronto Mike is an entrepreneur who has embraced change throughout his life. Bob and Mike talk career changes, family changes and Bob gets Mike's perspective about the changes to on of their shared loves: the fine city of Toronto.

change we need to change things up it's a show about change welcome to bob's basement here's your host bob willett welcome to bob's basement the first episode of 2021 joining me virtually in my basement today is the one and only toronto mike aka mike boone mike thank you very much for taking the time oh yeah cracker open there you go i like that that sounded good i i i on the other hand i went with a little harder i don't can you hear the clinking because you're like don draper that's an old-fashioned right uh no you know what that's just straight straight Jameson on the rocks, my friend.

I do like an old-fashioned anime. I know. I know. I know everything about you, Bob. Well, that's why I wanted to have you on, is you know everything about everybody, but I don't know if everybody knows everything about you. So, first of all, let me start by publicly thanking you once again.

Bob's Basement podcast would not happen quite literally physically because of you i'm uh running this through your uh mackie pro effects board that you've lent me until you until such a time arises that you need it so physically this show would not exist without you well how's my Mackie doing? You taking good care of it? It's covered in crap. No, it's great. It's perfect. It's working very very well. And when I back in the fall when I was my contract in terrestrial radio was about to end. I

had spoken. We've spoken to you about it and I bounce some ideas off you and anyways, long story short, thank you very much. This podcast would not exist if it were not for you. And I do, I am very much appreciative. Bob's Basement is a good podcast. And really, the fact you're a good guy is just a bonus. Like I'm here for the good content. Thank you. You know what? I've been very fortunate that it's been received so well.

And some people whose opinions I care about very much. Well, Bob, you know, the mighty Mark Weisblot from 1236, the newsletter, is a big fan of your podcast. He listens to a thousand podcasts. I think that's amazing. And Weisblot's a smart guy. I knew Weisblot back in the day with the humble and fred show he'd come on as a media expert and uh talk about all kinds of things so i've known wise blot off and on for years so it's very it means a lot and the 1236 his newsletter that i guess he does with the toronto life magazine is uh is is must

read yeah like i think there's a saint joseph's media alliance there uh but it's pretty much the great the love child of mark weisblatt yeah laptop so and he's one of your regular guests uh monthly guests in fact on the toronto miked podcast my podcast the uh bob's basement podcast is a podcast about change and i've known you for, what would we say, 10 years now? Maybe more than that? It was December 2006. Wow, so 14 years now I have known you. And change, my friend, you have changed, not just physically.

We could talk about, yeah, a little few gray hairs, that kind of thing. You lost a bunch of weight. You started cycling. There's all kinds of things that I could touch upon with you about change. But I think the thing that I want to talk about the most is how you've gone and actually turned this whole podcasting thing into a livable working job. You were what before you were a podcasting blogging guru i was a uh like a manager of digital marketing for a b2b software company okay so working from home or working in

an office well okay so i started working from home in 2011 so uh but prior to that i was like in the cubicle jungle, man. I was like office space. Right. So you were a guy. Yeah. So you're a white collar guy, maybe a bit on the nerd side if you want to. And I mean that in a loving way.

I mean that in a, in a, in, in the most positive way and the way nerd culture is, uh, really actually the cool culture. Now you were, you know, You were pushing buttons and trying to... Were you selling things or were you mostly digital support? No, man. In fact, when you invited me on this show, I'm well aware this is all about change. And I started thinking about my professional life.

I went to U of T and studied English and history. Yeah, me too. In the late 90s, I come out with a double major in English and history. I'm at a software company writing copy. I'm in Mad Men or something. I'm writing copy. When the internet sort of...

For a catalog, essentially? Like Elaine from Seinfeld? Almost. Almost. For Jay Peterman? Yeah. This particular software will take you to it was a telecom reseller in mississauga okay and uh i was there and i this is when you know we had a website and i would write copy and i would send an email to this uh i remember they

were at like dufferin and bluer but they were just like a digital services company that would make the changes to the website and then bill us like 100 bucks an hour or something. Wow. So you were going to a third party to put your stuff up. And I went to my boss and said, Hey, why can't we just do that? And then he was like,

Well, we don't know how to do that. And then I went to Humber College. This is like 1999. I went to Humber College and took HTML 101. You literally learn the basics and then you start to build your own

stuff. I can't remember if Bob's basement swears. Do we swear? You can say whatever the fuck you want. So I started like trial and error building my own shit i started torontomic.com as a blog in 2002 and uh long story short is like you just start to use your own personal web space as a sandbox and you try out new seo techniques and different html things and then you learn css there next thing you know it, you apply all that in the B2B

marketing world as what I used to call an e-marketing guy, which became digital marketing. And I'm like online lead gen guy for software companies. So you saw an opening, you saw the company you were working for basically being taken to the cleaners by this company, but which was going right at the time. Yeah, yeah. It was reasonable. But you saw it and you took the initiative. Now, is your training, the HTML 101 from the fine school of Humber College,

was that the only official training you had? Oh, that's it. Yeah. So once I had the fundamentals, it's like Hoosier, right? You got to learn to play without the ball before they... Okay. So once I had the HTML 101 fundamentals, it's all trial and error. So you get yourself some web space and you get an FTP client and you try things, you upload it, you see cause and effect. I taught myself everything via trial and error, cause and effect. And then all of a sudden, I was this backend digital guy. I taught myself everything via trial and error, cause and effect. And then I was

all of a sudden I was this back end digital guy. Like I had the front end creative part. Now I had the back end part. And I partly that into a very nice career for like 15 years. I know the answer to this question because I know you and I know you're I know kind of the trajectory of your career, but you are not a guy who's averse to change. No, no. In fact, once in a while, I'll look at everything and say, oh, I'm not comfortable with that. And then I'll go there just to feel uncomfortable. So you'll step outside your comfort zone on purpose. Exactly. Yeah. Intentionally, just because I kind of get off on the feeling of doing something I'm uncomfortable doing and then becoming good at it and then comfortable with it. Like it's kind of something I've been doing my whole life.

I will say this and you always you will say often that you're not a broadcaster. You're not a radio guy. But I am always impressed with your line of questioning with your guests because you have no fear. You ask the questions that i would be afraid to ask i'm bluntly without a warning without uh any apology you just ask whatever you think yeah and uh well within reason of course but yes uh i'm fair you're not not to the point that you're rude either like that's what i mean. I think you're disarming. You disarm your guests by your authenticity.

I'm not even comfortable. That's why we should go there. I'm not comfortable with it. But telling people my secret, because you use the word disarm. It's not just a good Smashing Pumpkins jam. It's also my act. That's why my episodes can't be 20 minutes 30 minutes because i need that chunk of time at the beginning to build the rapport yeah to get my

guest comfortable and laughing and suddenly they'll answer all my questions but i can't start like that or they'll just put up their guards and be all like defensive. Like I need that time to build the rapport, you know? Cause I don't know. Like I'm not a, like you, you go to like radio events and you hobnob with famous people.

Not anymore, but yeah. Okay. Nobody goes to anything, but I know you did. I know you were doing that, Bobby. Yeah.

Me, honestly, straight up. And I mean it, uh, I'm not from your industry. I'm not, doing that Bobby. Yeah. Me, honestly, straight up. And I mean it, uh, I'm not from your industry. I'm not, I'm not a professional.

I have no formal training. I'm literally running on instinct and figuring it out as I go along. Uh, so I did learn early on that people will answer those questions. You're referring to the, uh, the real talk, the,

uh, yeah, your hashtag real talk. Absolutely. Right. Well, your buddy Strombo coined that when, uh, the real talk, the, uh, Yeah. Your hashtag real talk. Absolutely. Right. Well, your buddy Strombo coined that when, uh, when he came over. Is that where that came from? Yeah. He, he called it real talk. And then I started using it that day. And it's stuck since, and it's good and it's true. And it's, uh,

and when I say that, I mean that like, when I say what I say, it's, it's with a great reverence and, uh, I'm very impressed with what you get out of your guests. And so let me let me ask you this, then going back kind of to the change thing. How does a guy who grew up in Toronto, how does how do you become this guy? How would you say what is your what is the path that brought you to be this kind of media savvy, the go-to guy when there's a whole world of media people in Toronto that listen to your podcast, but you have no media experience at all? How did that happen? I'm going to assume it was a gradual change.

It was an evolution rather than a decision to go, I'm going to be the guy. Oh, totally. Totally. Totally. I think it comes from, there's a number of steps involved here. And I don't want to bore your audience. It's why we're here. Not to bore, but to hear the steps.

Okay. So it starts with a natural, innate curiosity. Okay. So it starts with a natural, innate curiosity. Okay. Forever. Way before I'd ever been on the internet or saw the internet, I was blogging in like a journal. Like a daily journal. It wasn't a blog. It was a daily log, right? It was a log. You were physically writing down an analog. You were using paper and writing things down. Like talking about movies I saw. John Candy died and thoughts on that. But it was just for my own personal having.

So I've always been curious in you know how all the pieces fit together and the whole zeitgeist and how it all fits into the universe so that exists then i already talked about the late 90s when i take html part of that was starting torontomic.com which was just a personal personal home page is what we called it. And I maintained that for years. I had a tribute to Bill Barilko on there. I had a Duke's Hazard. I had a Pearl Jam section where I listed all the songs I'd hear live when I'd see them in concert and stuff like that.

So that sort of exists. And then blogging in the early 2000s, I saw this new format emerging called blogging. And I said, oh, that's's what I'm doing. So blogging for many, many years basically was like a gateway drug to podcasting. And the whole podcasting thing only happens because of your friends, Humble and Fred. Right. Because I was helping them podcast and they were the content creators. And at some point after a couple of weeks of watching them, I literally got that itch. I talked about wanting to leave my comfort zone. I just said, hey, what if I did all the parts, including that chunk I'm not comfortable doing where I actually

speak into a microphone like this? Who am I with this voice to be speaking into a microphone? Voice isn't everything. It's the content of what is coming out of your voice sir okay tom river is easy for you to say oh whatever no no i don't know i don't have a tom anyways it's fine um so now did your interest in radio just came from being a fan of radio right that's it like i loved watching wkrp in cincinnati i listened to a lot of radio just earlier today i was chatting up carla collins who's had this interesting lengthy career sure really all i wanted to do was ask her like what it was like working with tom rivers on mix 99.9 in the early 90s like that's my interest was that yeah Yeah, that era was, yeah, you're that guy. Mike Cooper, 680 CFTR, that kind of stuff.

Larry Fedorek, my client. Yes, one of your clients. Right, I'm working with a lot of guys I enjoyed listening to. Yeah. So am I correct in saying that one of the things that helped change your trajectory when it comes to this business and business and and media was the death of martin streak your article on it like did that did did did that you i i i recall you and i speaking about uh how that blew up quote unquote on the internet without a doubt i think that's when a lot of people in the industry bookmarked

the site yeah literally bookmarked it yeah that's what we did back then added to favorites or whatever yeah right uh right and but but i mean really that was just one of you know 10 000 entries i had written in that five-year period and i was was writing, when Martin Streak lost his job, I wrote about it. That's the only reason I was told about the tragic happenings that, you know, Fateful Night in 2009 was because when this

person, this CFNY person, googled Martin Streak, I was number one in Google because I had written about him being fired by 102.1. I i i don't know i don't know what to say on that except some people say hey that's the moment and i hear that from like radio people like that's the moment but to me it was just one out of like you know a thousand radio entries i wrote in that period that just happened to be such a uh you know like even

when i think back uh and you knew the man and worked with the man and we've had this talk many many times but this was a very popular you know toronto radio personality who in what seemingly uh prime of his life in good condition good health and now from where the age we are now looking back like very young deciding he's going to exit stage right like that's kind of a sensational happening absolutely tracked a lot of eyeballs and i well and i'm not trying to take anything away from your uh your your success or your um your popularity in the media world by by attaching something to it i I've just, you know,

we're always, you'd said, you just said yourself, radio people. I think a lot of people in general are always in search of that tipping point, right? They're always looking for like, what was the moment?

And especially when I'm doing this podcast, when it's about change, I'm always interested in finding out if the change was something that was, you know, sudden, or if it was something that was kind of a slower evolution. Well, then if you're looking for a moment, there's many, many moments. We talked about evolution,

but there's a moment that we actually already referenced because I spoke of meeting you for the first time in December, 2006. So really there is a moment where I had basically, I talked humble and Fred into trying this new fandangled new format. It's called a podcast. And it turned out Dan Duran could record the audio in his home. And we all just got together that December day at Dan Duran's house. And Humble and Fred invited some people like yourself and scary bald-headed Pete.

I don't know if Schwarmer was there. I'm trying to remember who was there. people like yourself and scary bald headed Pete. Yeah. I don't know if Schwarmer was there. I'm trying to remember who was there. I don't think he was there. I don't think Schwarmer made that one. No, I think it was just Pete, Dan and I. Right. Some legendary Pete was never a producer, but he was an associate producer though. Technically. Okay. He was technically an associate

producer and a writer. And who knew that I was a future producer? I know at you but that moment that because that's the moment where basically i'm there for the recording and dan literally hands off to me an mp3 file and says do it and if you if you remember 2006 there wasn wasn't exactly a blueprint lying around on what you do next. I really did look at existing podcasts like Ricky Gervais' podcast and I reverse engineered. And you kind of figure out the XML schema and how the pod catcher... Apple, basically. How is it parsing this XML in order to produce this finished product to subscribers?

parsing this XML in order to produce this finished product to subscribers. It was really a learning curve that I was kind of more than happy to climb. So that was really, it forces you in. Because now you've got this MP3 and you just told the guys you're going to make it a podcast. Well, now you're the podcast guru, but you've never done it before. So you literally never posted a podcast prior to that humble and frank christmas that was the first one i ever did and there's a lot of other you know variables at play now i'm an expert like i've touched all the parts a million times and i know exactly you know where it could be but back then it was like okay oh yeah like like like this is

you know we have to do math how much bandwidth do you get on this web server and all that stuff, which we kind of take for granted now. But basically that, that month, December, 2006, I promised humble and Fred fans and there were a good legion of them. As you know, I promised them they'd have a podcast to listen to whether they knew what

that was or not. And, uh, I did deliver on that promise and we did several more. And, uh, that's really, I think that's more of like the moment where i transitioned from like blogger guy to future podcast god um to the point now

where you're not in the cubicle you have your own company it is uh uh flourishing you are at a point where you are producing several podcasts you have your own podcast um was there fear when you decided to make that leap and quit your day job oh no no because uh there was a whole whack of stuff going on at the day job where it was going to end one way or another it was just whether i go do i go get another gig like this was the big decision i was wrangling with like i was gonna stop it was a german company and i did it from home since 2011 right and i wasn't gonna up and relocate to frankfurt so basically i was gonna stop doing that gig was i gonna take another job like i had always done or was i gonna like again leave my comfort zone and try to...

What if every penny I generated was because I invoiced it for my own company? And what if I did that? And it was a tough decision. It was a lot of thought put into that decision. And then I decided to go for it. And now we're two and a half years later. You use the word flourishing. I don't know if I'm comfortable with that word, but you know, I'm, I'm able to pay the mortgage and feed the kids and pay for university and stuff. So I don't know if that's flourishing, but I tell you what, I tell you what, if you're able to run your own business and save some dough and pay your bills to me, that's flourishing know i never well i never you know i never you know that we always talk about i never made that humble and fred money you know i never made that

roger rick and maryland money i never made that john derringer money that money's long gone in in broadcast the only people who are making that are the general managers and the sales managers and whatnot. So for me, I will often check myself and my expectations, talking about change and about finances and whatnot. I think about what 21 year old Bob would have been happy with. And if 21 year old Bob knew now, granted, I'm in between gigs right now. But if 21 year old Bob knew the way I've spent my last two years and the finances related to that, including working for Bell Media and doing middays and being a music director and interviewing all kinds of cool rock stars, 21-year-old and for even the money that was there, which I'll be honest, wasn't great. Again, I probably wouldn't use the word flourishing either, but I paid my bills and I got a house and I got two kids. So I should be pretty happy. Perspective is worth a lot. the word flourishing either but i paid my bills and i got a house and i got two kids so i should be pretty happy you know perspective is uh is worth a lot and i'm like yourself i think i'm

not motivated by uh hold on you know what i have to turn off hold on a second here that's you know what that is because i'm the board's running through with my mic so that's my daughter uh google hangout video messaging me but oh i'm interrupting you hanging out with your daughter that would come through the chrome there anyways no my apologies i am sorry you're too canadian there because you're apologizing for something that's clearly not your fault well no i would not i don't want to take a dad away from his daughter for god's sake that's okay uh she you know what happened my uh my third born lost his first tooth today i did see a post about that so i know this so there's a lot of excitement in the house right now because uh the tooth fairy so so yeah you know i've been

through this twice before this is the third time i've had a kid, you know, get visited by the tooth fairy. But of course my wife, this is the first time. So this is the first time a child of hers has lost a tooth. And I remember that feeling. And you might remember that the first child to lose a tooth is a kind of an exciting milestone, right? Like it's a, it's one of those monuments. Yeah. It can be, it's one of those monumental things. Well, we talk about your family a little bit and I don't want to go too personal here on you but you have uh you when i met you you had two young children um and now you got young children again um let's talk about what it's like to be a dad to young children twice so yeah so there was a 12 year gap i guess yeah that's a lot boy girl two years apart yep and then 12 years how old were you when they were born let's let's start with

okay i was 27 when my oldest was born yeah so you have a son who can drive and can drink so he well he legally in ontario he can drink in exactly 15 days right so we're two weeks away from him being legally allowed to drink and yeah both you know and my second born now uh has her whatever that g1 g1 thing yeah yeah but okay so the teenagers one of whom is in university and one is in grade uh 11 are amazing and i just just they're just the best people but yeah the the bigger responsibility in terms of like my time and energy

is the fact that I have a six-year-old and a four-year-old right and they're very like even though the six-year-olds come a long way he's very independent actually for a six-year-old but the four-year-old is still very dependent so yeah there's you know what uh i didn't plan it this way like it happened because of variety of circumstances but like looking back

now i can't imagine life without the two little ones like uh it it happened on oh they were planned but it wasn't the original plan and then the plan changed and then they were planned and all my kids were planned and they all are healthy and they seem happy and they're all smart and interesting but like i can't imagine it any other way like it all evolved out perfectly um how does the how does the blended household work for you it's a that's that's a change for everybody for for your kids, for your new wife. How does the blended household work in the Boone household? That's good. Because Monica came into the teens now,

but I think they were 8 and 10 when Monica arrived in their life. And Monica is a very special human in that she's absolutely wonderful. She's the best stepmom you'd ever want. So the love her to pieces and she's so good to them as it's good to have them as she has to her own kids maybe better actually and uh like everyone gets along the the teens like that's probably the phone call i just ignored there for a little bit is probably probably michelle wanting to talk to jarvis and And she'll just call my wife now. Well, that's nice. Wanting to talk to Jarvis because he's about to fall asleep. And he's getting a visit from the Tooth Fairy tonight.

But Michelle is coming here. Yeah, she'll be here tomorrow for a week. So the teens split their time. And James is home from Waterloo right now so he was here until today so he was here for a big chunk of days and he just left today so yeah it's exciting bob man and again um you didn't i didn't plan to have two sets of kids but i can't imagine life without you know morgan and jarvis that's for sure no of course not. Any secrets to that? Or do you think it's just fortuitous, just luck? Well, think about it this way, Bob.

Let's pretend. This is probably an impossibility, but let's pretend you have two more kids, right? You would just be the best dad you could be, and you would change your diapers, and you would love him to pieces. And it would just be the way it all unfolded. But you would step up and be amazing, right? Yeah. Because it's in you to be a great dad. It's very nice of you to say, but you don't know who me.

First of all, I hear anyways. Yeah. No, I think I'm an okay dad. Yeah. My parents were very young. My dad is only, like, I'll be 45 in two weeks, and my dad's only 66. Oh, yeah. Okay. That is young. my dad's only 66 so oh yeah okay that is young because my mom's not even my mom's only 64 like so right yeah so i got some you know i got some young parents so and i'm an

only child so it's a little bit different um going back to the toronto mike experience if you will um how did you approach the idea of doing it all on your own so the german company's gonna get ready you're not moving to frankfurt you don't like schnitzel that much so you're not going and how does the conversation go with your wife at that time were you married at that time oh yeah yeah because i've been married seven years now and we're only going back two and a half years right quick change yeah so a lot of things happen at once there's a whole bunch of stuff going on one of which is my masterful negotiation with the german software company in terms of severance like i was because they seemed really confused about canadian law versus american law

because they had American employees, but they didn't have many Canadian employees because they just did not like people who did not work from the home from offices. Like they had an American office and a German office. Anyway, all this is whole boring except to say that I was able to kind of, I think I was really good with them and really masterful. I like to think in terms of educating them on Canadian labor law and what

their obligation was to me. And I think I did quite well. So I stopped working. I stopped doing anything. And I started planning what became TMDS. And I was still being paid full money for several months thereafter. So I had a soft launch of TMDS while I was still getting my full-time pay there. And then when that full-time pay ended, I had what I call the hard launch of TMDS. And it was really... I mean, I drew it on the board and I worked it out. I had to obviously tell my wife that there was a possibility

I would be making a lot less money. And I kind of had this very conservative, what targets... I still have the targets, by the way. I kind of had this very conservative, what targets at all. I still have the targets, by the way, I'm big on like gamifying the whole thing, really, but I exceeded the targets.

So, uh, and they were very reasonable targets, so I could beat them, but it all, that all worked out and who knows what tomorrow brings, but right now it's a okay. And my wife has been very supportive and,

uh, I'm happy, but I didn't see COVID coming. Like I thought I'd be home alone doing my thing. And now he's here too. She's here too. And so are the kids sometimes. They're here this week.

That's for sure. No, I know. We were commiserating about that off the air. And yes, we were recording this the first week of where all the kids are home. They're supposed to go back on January 11th, I guess on monday the elementary schools are going back is the plan right well yeah we'll see we'll see now change bob change the theme of this great podcast bob's basement uh it really is an attitude to me it's all about a mindset like it's like when life gives you lemons, you paint that shit gold.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really like, you know, you get some cards dealt to you that you have no control over and then it's other cards maybe you get, you know, that you pick up ill-advised maybe and maybe you're trying this and it didn't work.

But you got to kind of play what you got and make the most of it. So when it comes to change, to me, it's always about like attitude. Like my glass, my glass is always like, sometimes it's annoying, but my glass is always half full.

Like, this is just how I see all the, and I see opportunities where some others see like, Oh, there's a pitfall there or there's like a mine there. And I, I see them as like opportunities to spin into other potentially great things.

Like it's really a mindset. It is. And I have learned that. And if I'm one of the things that I am truly grateful for while doing this podcast is hearing everybody's perspective on change. And exactly. I, you know,

the pitches, you know, the elevator pitches that we're all experts in change we all deal with it change is the only inevitable right every everything changes all the time it really is what i i think the biggest the commonality between everybody is is your perspective to change so let me ask you uh have you ever gotten out of your comfort zone and didn't like where it went i'm pretty certain i I have. Yeah, like I will. I know Pivot's been used a lot.

And never gone back. Yeah, like even every day, something, I'll do something. It won't feel right or I'll be like, I don't like that or I don't need that. And I'll be like,

I'm not doing that anymore. Like there's been times I've had, you know, I have multiple clients and different streams of revenue and stuff. And there's times I've dealt with people that just were greasy. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. Yeah.

So I've made a decision through some bad business relationships. I've made decisions, for example, like I'm not... And this is a bit of a... I have the box out of the wire here because there's a line in the wire where McNulty says something like, you play in the dirt, you get dirty. Like he just says that off the cuff or whatever.

And like, that's totally like, I'm totally there. Like, I'm not going to go in the dirt because I might get dirty. So basically I have these rules now, like through living and learning of the way I approach get dirty. So basically, I have these rules now through living and learning of the way I approach different things. So yeah, I've done changes, didn't like how it felt or the results or how it worked out. And then I kind of absolved not to do that again.

Absolutely. Without a doubt. Because that is a part of your business that I don't know if a lot of people know because whether you like it or not, you are a known entity now. TMDS is a, is your entity, but your personality is a big part of what TMDS is. And we've talked about that off the air about how, what you're selling isn't just a service you're selling you as a person and what you bring to the table as that person, as Mike Boone, as Toronto Mike. Um, and. And that's very important to you, obviously.

Maybe explain a little bit the streams. And you don't have to tell me about the skeevy people you've said no to. But what I mean is people know that you do your Toronto Mike's podcast. They know you work with people like Dana Levinson and Mark Hebbshire and Peter Gross. But there's another stream, a corporate side, that I don't think people know you do. Oh yeah, without a doubt. You're right because

the Dana Levinsons and the Peter Grosses and the Humble and Freds and the Mark Hebbshires and Larry Fedoreks and stuff, I do make a lot of noise about that on Twitter, for example, which is where you might be picking up a lot of your stuff there. So I'm very public about it and I kind of make noise and I go, oh, there's a new down the stretch from Peter Gross.

You should check it out, whatever. But you're right. There's an entirely different stream, the corporate podcasting, where I'm your podcast division for your corporate podcast. And it's the same deal. I just don't do the twitter pushing you to the financial services website or uh like i basically just do the work behind the scenes there's something very there's a very there's a parallel to you back in the day identifying that your company you worked

for was spending a lot of money getting somebody to do the HTML stuff. And now you're doing the exact same thing on a larger scale with the podcast stuff. Now, hopefully you're charging a very responsible rate, of course. Yeah, I suppose you're right. There might be a parallel there, but I'm on the other side now. No, you are. But also not, you know, I mean, how many companies have the desire or the finances to have their own podcast? Right. And I noticed that for a lot of these companies, they'd much rather cut this check to this person they trust to handle the A to Z, all the moving parts, so they don't have to worry about it.

All they have to worry about, and I always say this, just focus on being the subject matter experts and worry about the content. And let me worry about all the other parts to a podcast. So it seems like a nice fit for a lot of organizations. And it's maybe because of my personality or whatever. But when somebody starts working with me, they usually enjoy it and they stick around. So it's been nice to get that going. whatever but when somebody starts working with me they usually enjoy it and they stick around so it's been nice to kind of you know get the going hey did i ever maybe i shared this with you at

some point when we talk privately or not but did i tell you about the uh the weed guy okay so i mean i haven't heard a weed story with you but you've never told that one that's a different weed story but this is uh there's an hbo and i don't remember any i watched i used to watch a show well i did watch a show on hbo about a guy who would bike around new york city selling weed yeah yes yes yes okay and in the show i really enjoyed the whole vibe of this show okay because it was like standalone episodes but the tying the theme that tied it all together was this guy would bike around new york selling selling pot anyway at some point he realized like the business he had built was as big as it was going to get so long it was

him hopping on his bike and selling the weed again but hit the ceiling yeah and he had an option he either could continue like that or he could you know bring on some other employees and really uh uh build this out and uh it much, much bigger. And he was grappling with this and he reached the conclusion that like he enjoyed it being the one man operation, like it was him. And he was okay having the ceiling of income the way it was with him having his own clients and biking and everybody would go get their weed from him. was with him having his own clients and biking and everybody would kind of go get their weed from him. So he chose to kind of stay there instead of bringing on other people.

And then it would be less fun, but he, it would be more lucrative or whatever. Right. So this week, so all that being said, all that being said is I see a lot of parallels between me and the guy who bikes around New York selling weed.

Like this, I'm pretty much, you know, I'm pretty close to being kind of sold out in terms of what TMDS is, as long as it's just, you know, me. Right.

So I'm talking about that. We talked about that a few, you know, whatever, a few months ago. Okay. You're kind of at that. You're at that.

Not that you're, you're at almost max capacity. Right. So I'll make up numbers that are nice and round just so we can all like because our brains are fried but like let's say i maxed out at being a 150 000 a year operation okay and there are things i could do that could make it a 500 000 dollar a year operation and maybe some other things i could do that but could potentially make this a million dollar a year operation but it would all mean bringing on people. And there's a whole whack of stuff I'd have to do,

which is fine because I'm fine leaving my comfort zone, but it's all about like what my values are. Like I really enjoy my bike ride every day. And one day, well, I promise my wife said when I'm turning 50, I can get a kayak because I have this fantasy where I own a kayak and I, I'm on the Humber river and I have this whole fantasy. I a kayak and I'm on the Humber River. Sure. I have this whole fantasy. I've had it for a while now. So especially as the kids get older and there's less demand there or whatever,

I can be on my kayak. Anyway, change, it's kind of nice we're talking because all this is stuff like in early 2021 that's like top of mind. Like what do I do next? Do I bring on other people and kick this up a notch? Because I think it could be something really cool. Or do I keep it a thing that just makes me really happy and fulfills me? And I can just be myself and keep going like I'm going, even though I might have hit a ceiling. That is an interesting conversation to have with yourself in your head.

Because, I mean, you do talk about being okay with being out of your comfort zone but but i'm also uh really not driven by money like yeah it's almost a problem where i will oh you're a good example but we won't go into that detail but i i do a lot of work and stuff to you know empower people and i do a lot i put a lot of effort into a lot of places that are not lucrative. Some people would say that comes back tenfold in other ways. If you believe in the idea of karma, if you believe in just

being a good person to good people. I like to feel good. Without a doubt. I'm not exactly Gordon Gekko or whatever. I don't, you know, I don't need to watch the zeros grow. Like I just, I need to put my kids through university. That's like priority one.

I want, if they're all going somewhere after high school, I want to be able to pay for that. And I want to make sure we can live in a nice home in a nice neighborhood, which we have now. We have to maintain this. And I know like, I don't have like caviar dreams or whatever. I just, I like to camp and I like to bike like i have really inexpensive things

but if so if all that can happen and my wife is happy because that's important too yes uh i don't i don't what am i gonna do with if you handed me a million bucks what would i do i would just invest it somewhere so all the kids can go to university. Do you recognize how fortunate that is to be doing what you're doing? Yeah. So I'll tell you, here's why I say that. Okay, tell me. And because of what I said earlier, I've never made a huge amount of money in radio, in broadcast.

I've made more money than any of my parents ever made, which is they're a laborer and worked in retail. But I've never made huge, huge dough, but I've made enough to buy a nice house. Uh, very, I was lucky. I bought young and before the, the city of Toronto went nuts and everything, but I, and I've had, you know, moments I've been fired twice. I've had a contract run out and not be hired. I've been in jobs I haven't been happy with, but I do always try to take a moment, take a pause and realize how lucky I've been to be able to do a job that I love and make a living out of it. Right. You're a blessed man. I don't believe in the word blessing. That's a whole other conversation.

Being blessed to me is uh i like to use the word i like to i like to use the word fortunate i'm very fortunate okay i've worked hard i've worked hard but there's definitely a lot of fortune that's for sure and so we're in similar places that i think so respect you know i'm happy with my uh my relationship my wife and i'm happy with my relationship with my four kids. And to be quite honest, whenever I go on these bike rides and think about everything, it turns out that's all I really care about. Like,

well, not, and you know what, do you know how I, that's why I ask if you realize how lucky you are, because most people it's, it's easy to imagine what you don't like. And it's a meat.

It's easy to imagine what you don't want, but you're living the dream in a lot of ways man like you are doing what you love and you're making ends meet doing it which is pretty great and i and i'm not i don't that's not me i'm not i'm not like that's not me scolding you that's me being very happy for you no thank you yeah uh thank you and and then at the end of the day uh you'll concur and we're both lucky this way as well i suppose but uh like if one of our kids or somebody we loved got sick we'd it was like we would give every penny we'd ever made ever so it's like really just be you know like what is it all for like what is what

is this all for bob it's you know what what it's for is a question that I don't know I am, uh, I'm equipped to answer. I do, I do know that it's to make it, it's, it's a means to an end, right? Like what we do for a living is a means to an end ultimately. And if we can find satisfaction in what we do for a living, which we've been lucky enough to be able to do, then that, then that, then that's good. And if not, then you hopefully can find your, your solace, find your happiness, find the things that motivate you elsewhere, because not everybody gets to do that. Not everybody gets to do what they love for a living. That's a great point. I mean, this whole podcast thing, where did that come from? Oh, yeah. It's because I stumbled on this

thing that I really enjoyed doing. To me, it's new radio and i loved radio as a kid and unlike you bob i never had the uh the gonads to actually you know they consider being a radio professional but this podcast medium is different like i can touch this i get this i understand this i can make something out of this. Well, you know, I almost broke into Creed, the great Scott Stapp. I almost broke into What's This Life For? Not even with arms wide open, right? You went for a B cut. Is that a B cut?

I don't know. I am not. Which song was it? There's arms wide open in my own prison is all I know. Is that the one that goes, Should have been dead on a Sunday morning?

Sure, is that Three Doors Down? I have no idea. There's a whole sound there. Were you at that Edge Fest that they headlined? No, no, I was not. What year was that? Off the top of my head. 99? No, 97 was my first date with my wife.

That was the first time there was no American headliner. Collective Soul was on the bill, but that was Our Lady Peace and Tea Party. And I was there for sure for that because that was our first date. I do remember that. We can get into Edge Fest. Okay, can I ask you, Collective Soul,

do you think December is a Christmas song? No, December is not a Christmas song. So shout out to Cam Gordon from Twitter. Okay, so Toronto Mike. It's a podcast about change. Your podcast, Toronto Mike, is a podcast about Toronto, about media. If I asked you, hey Mike, how has Toronto changed in the last 25 years? How would you articulate an answer to that?

Oh, wow, Bob. That's a good one. Bam, baby. Well, there's a lot more condo high rises when I'm riding the waterfront trail. That's for sure. Sure. Like from a media perspective, I think one the big trends which is is is not so good al that's weezer right yeah that's that's right that's uh buddy holly okay is uh man it just

seems and this is where i feel for guys like you it feels like three companies own it all and you know you got these you know what i mean it's like i do oh i know all too well right you know you got you got your cbc over there but everything else is like it's got to be it's like i do oh i know all too well right you know you got you got your cbc over there but everything else is like it's got to be it's bell or roger how many times i've applied to cbc like honest to god i've applied probably over like 50 times to 50 different jobs at the cbc i'll give you a pro tip after you stop recording wow no i i honestly have going back i mean we're going back many many years but i have maybe 50 is an exaggeration. 30. I've applied to 30 different positions and I've gotten a lot of interviews, never been able to close the deal with a job at the CBC. What happened to the long form interview on legacy media outlets? I do get a little of it actually on the CBC.

CBC would be the only place you get it. I do get a little of it actually on the CBC. CBC would be the only place you get it. Yeah. And I really would say that a big reason Toronto Mike exists today is because I couldn't find it anywhere. We're going back like eight, nine years or whatever. How old is my podcast? 2012.

So yeah, nine years now almost. And really like the whole deep dive long form product just did not exist anymore that I could find anyways anyways man i love metro morning and they only do eight minutes but eight minutes seems like an eternity to a guy who's been in private radio his whole career what do you think of the new guy i actually have to admit i haven't heard a lot i haven't been commuting at all haven't been in the car so i i can't form an opinion i think i miss matt galloway because the new guy is fine but i guess i'm looking for something more like memorable or something that's one of the best i've never met matt i've heard him on your show and him on the current he's just unbelievable but we're he sat right no he did i know he did i emailed him once and he never emailed me back i just

emailed him as a kind of a bitch i know right one of those things but let's talk okay so from okay condos obviously on the media front it feels like there's less uh what i'm what i'm you know to summarize your answer feels like there's a little less you know it's one of those things similar to the media it feels like a lot of the uh ma and pa charming institutions that gave the city character it feels like a lot of them are disappearing in favor of like chains and big box stores and things like i know we still i keep thinking one day one day we'll wake up and get the news like the the horseshoe tavern is going to become like a wendy's or something like that there's an a and w right next to it right now so that's right that's right and it's fine i just chatted because i just talked to carla collins

and we were talking a lot about the El Macombo and Michael Weckerle sunk a lot of money into that, but that seems to be like an exception rather than a rule in this city at this time. So like a lot of these cute little venues, I don't know what COVID's going to do when COVID's done. Like how many places will there be where we could go see Rusty?

It'll be down to like... Rusty's basement? It'll be Toronto Mike's basement. Yeah. Maybe, I don't, you know, because the Danforth Music Hall might be too big for Rusty. It'll be down to like,

I don't know what, you're going to Lee's Palace maybe? Like, you're running out of spots. Do you think Toronto is a better city now than it was 20 years ago? No, I don't think it's a better city than it was 20 years ago. Isn't that sad?

Shouldn't it be? It's a better city than it was 20 years ago isn't that sad but it shouldn't it be it's a it's it grew up a lot and i think uh like some of us lifetime or lifers here are just uh kind of it's one of those things where a city grows up and it it's like a big fucking city bob like it's a big city it was a big city when we were kids too though like it was a million person city a lot of parking lots as i recall um right what was that about like why were there so many parking lots down it's funny you say that i actually so quick side note because i know we can do long form i know we gotta go watch is this toronto mic or bob's base yeah exactly um i was uh doing a curbside pickup for at the indigo at the Manulife Center.

Right. And I was like, oh, I'll just go to the Green Pea parking on Cumberland. You know, the one block north. Sure. It's gone. There's no Green Pea Park. It's like it's just it's going to be condos. The Green Pea parking just after like between Young or between Bay and Young is gone.

I do all my curbside picking downtown. I do it on a bike now. Like I completely moved everything possible to the bike. young is gone i do all my curbside picking downtown i do it on a bike now like i completely moved everything possible to the bike and sometimes i have to use the trailer if it's a big item i'm picking up but i i do it's all bike now i uh i know i told you i would get you out of here before the gold medal game which is what were you which is going to start in about 30 minutes so i won't keep you much longer i will ask you this though, of all the changes that you have been a part of personally, I'm,

I also wanted to ask you about your, your physical change, your health change. You were a bit of a heavier guy when we met and you lost so much weight at one point. I thought you were sick. I swear to God, I saw it.

I was like, Oh my God, is Mike sick, but you lost so much. Now you look terrific with your gorgeous coif of hair and all the 8,800 kilometers that you cycled in 2020. And that's only because I broke my wrist. It would have been much worse.

And I went six weeks without touching my bike. Right. And then you also had a surgical procedure that would have stopped you. I was told to take a week off and I only took four days off. Yeah. my bike right and then you also had a surgical procedure that would have stopped you you know i only i was told to take a week off and i only took four days off yeah well you know balls of steel i guess right i'd hurt how did that come about what did you do do you have any advice to a fat guy like me okay first of all you're not fat but you already know that okay and secondly is i'm not even sure i was fat um you weren't fat you weren't so you know

with tmds i've gamified in a sense everything like i got when money comes in and goes out it's all hitting targets and i've kind of i call it gamified because i'm big on like targets i like targets okay all right do you play darts no i should start that's where the targets are yes that is exactly what it is okay all. All this is safe with cycling. I measure every ride and I've been doing this since 2011 or 12, whenever I started back after 15 years of not biking, I started up again. Anyway,

all this is to say I worked for a German company and we had this one week retreat thing in Berlin and this is January, 2012. Wow. And I went to Berlin for a week. It was the best fucking time. But we drank and I'm not a big drinker

even though I just enjoyed a Great Lakes beer right here. But we drank. Smooth mention. We ate so much meat. Yes. So much meat and drank so much beer.

I got home and I felt so fucking slow. I don't know how to describe it. I felt like a marshmallow. I felt so fucking slow. I don't know how to describe it. I felt like a marshmallow. I felt so slow. And I weighed myself. And I never, ever weighed myself. And I think it was 183 or 184.

Right. Okay. I'm not a tall guy. We're not tall people, Bob. I'm six feet tall. Are you? Yeah. Honest to God, I thought you were like 5'9".

I am six feet tall and a lot more than 180 pounds. Okay. Well, you're six feet tall. Okay. So anyway, you were like 5'9". I am six feet tall and a lot more than 180 pounds. Okay. Well, you're six feet tall. Okay. So anyway, I'm only 5'9". So I was 184, I think it was. And I just literally just that day on a dime just said, hey, you know, I'm going to stop junking.

Like I'm going to stop eating like a pig. And I started eating in moderation, like half as much as i used to pizza showed up i used to have like 10 slices i just changed how did you do that i don't make that change i have these switches in my head and i can do it and i did it and i every day i weighed myself and i kind of graphed this whole thing and i i then at some point i introduced uh swimming and walking i got back to walking and then at at some point, I introduced the bike, which I've never stopped biking since then. So I watched the gradual drop. And in about, I think in six months, I had lost 40 pounds. And that's when I looked sick because I was at like

146 or whatever it was. And you're an adult man. That's not... Yeah, I was very thin. thin and i quickly fairly quickly put on like 10 pounds and i pretty much stuck to there for like six years or so and this change i'm fascinated by your ability to decide to change change and then move on. I find that fascinating that you described me exactly. Somebody orders a pizza, I'm going to have seven slices of pizza. There is no stopping me. When I worked in radio, the one thing that gets you through is the free food. People are sending you food all the time, and I have no self-control.

No governance. Zero. So that was me. food all the time and i have no self-control right no governance like yeah that's like me right zero so that was me you have no advice except for you have a switch i had a switch i still have the switch damn you uh like we'll go through a period like we just went through which is like the christmas season yeah and you know my mom and my kids they're all they know i love chocolate so suddenly like a 100 pounds of chocolate shows up. And if chocolate is there, I'm just going to eat it because I love chocolate. And then at some point, I'll look at that chocolate and I'll say, I'll hit the switch and I'll be like, all right, I'm done with chocolate. And I literally just won't touch chocolate again until I'm ready to go back to chocolate.

Like it's discipline, man. chocolate again until I'm ready to go back to chocolate. Like it's discipline, man. It's the same thing that gets you the same thing on a day like today, like a minus 10 day when the last thing you really want to do is go for like a 45 minute ride on the waterfront or an hour ride on the waterfront. It's the same thing that makes you put on the layers and get the bike with the snow tires and hit the trail like it's just discipline

so discipline are you taking notes Bob? I have been, I have been taking notes and perspective right? Discipline and perspective attitude is everything man yeah I once had one of the things going back to the idea of change and somebody once described, they literally just wrote two circles, a small circle and a big circle and put a dot in the middle on a piece

of paper. And they said, that dot in the middle, that's you. See this first circle? Everything that's in there is the stuff you can control. Worry about that stuff. See this stuff out here. You can't control that stuff. Don't worry about it. So you're not, I assume you're not a worrier. I think if there's something you can do about it, then you do it. And if there's nothing you can do about it, what's the point in worrying about it?

Well, I think that is a lovely place to end this, Mr. Boone. And I appreciate you taking the time and coming virtually into my basement and sharing your story a little bit. Because like I said, I think a lot of people know who Toronto Mike is, but they don't know a lot about who you are outside of your pop culture references and your pithy little remarks with your pandemic Friday boys. And I think you're a pretty deep guy. I think you're one of the kindest people I've ever met. And I'm very, very happy for all your success. And I congratulate you on all of the wonderful ways that you have invoked change in your life and, and endured change in your life and your perspective is, is it admirable.

And you're a worthy addition to the podcast universe with Bob's basement. You've done me proud with my Mackie FX eight. They're doing a great job and you're, you're, you're pumping it full of good content. I'm trying, man. i'm trying man i'm trying i'm you know what i'm really trying to do talking about that i'm really trying to book people outside my comfort zone and oh wow okay so you're gonna stop booking like 90s alt-rock musicians is that all those are my friends so i have to you know i'm trying to book people who haven't

been on your show to be completely honest is what i'm aiming for most. Oh, so that's who that is. That's Dean Blundell and John Derringer. I think those are the two guys you want. I could probably get them. I could get. Well, no, they probably wouldn't, knowing that it's on your TMDS. They probably say no. Well, John might say yes.

John might say yes. You know what? Johnny might. John might say yes. Dean, I don't know. I actually, and I'll say this on the air. I got Dean's phone number and texted him to say what a great job he did with Brother Bill. I thought his podcast with Brother Bill was phenomenal.

Have you heard Brother Bill and Toronto Mic'd? Yes, of course. And you thought Dean did a better job? I didn't say better. I just thought it was noteworthy that it was worth reaching out. And I got nothing back. So, you know, whatever. It is what it is uh of course tmds what are the websites torontomiked.com or the only website torontomiked.com torontomiked.com because everything's there bob's basement oh yeah that's right there is a bob's basement there is tmds podcasts yes go to torontomiked.com and everything's there. But if you know how to subscribe to podcasts, and since you're listening to Bob's Basement, you likely do,

just search for Toronto Mike and subscribe, damn it. We got to start making change. This has been Bob's Basements. Thanks for listening. Thanks. That's the way it is. For more information, email Bob at bobwillett at gmail.com. That's Bob Willett, like Gillette, with a W.

Follow Bob on Twitter, at Bob Willett. Bob's Basement is available where you find your favorite podcasts. Until next time. Well, that's the way it is.