Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - When Peter Met Mike: Toronto Mike'd #888

Episode Date: July 22, 2021

Mike chats with Great Lakes Brewery's Owner and President Peter Bulut, Jr. and Mike Lackey, Brewing Operations Manager, about their bromance 45 years in the making.

Welcome to episode 888 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. McKay CEO Forums, the highest impact and least time-intensive peer group for over 1,200 CEOs, executives, and business owners around the world. StickerU.com, create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste ofals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta.

Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike. From torontomike.com and joining me this week

to talk about a bromance decades in the making are Mike Lackey and Peter Bullitt. Oh yeah, Mr. 305. Mr. Worldwide to infinity. You know the roof on fire. We go boogie, hoogie, hoogie, jiggle, wiggle, and dance like the roof on fire.

We go drink drinks and take shots until we fall out like the roof on fire. Now, baby, get my booty naked, take off all your clothes and light the roof on fire. Woo! That song is dedicated. That jam is dedicated to Peter here. Peter, Mike, welcome. Thank you. This is one of the jams you kicked out when you kicked out the jam. I figured.

I remember that one. What do you think of this jam, Mr. Lackey? It's not my style, not ACDC, but other than that, it's pretty good. It needs more guitar? A little more power chord. So for those who are interested in hearing more of Peter Bullitt Kicks Out the Jams, that's episode 272. So when you're done this episode 888, which, by the way, guys, that's a cool number.

Right. Lucky. Octopus. I thought about octopus. Yeah. Okay. That number, I think, might be the luckiest number I'll do, unless I get to

8,000. I don't even know if I can get to 8,888. But you guys are 888. If you want to go back and hear episode 272, that is Peter Bullitt kicks out the jams. Gentlemen, I'm calling this episode When Peter Met Mike. And we really are going to celebrate a bromance that's decades in the making here.

Congrats to you both. Peter Bullitt, what's your official title at Great Lakes Brewery? President. Owner. President, owner. CEO. Chief bottle washer. CBO.

Chief broom sweeper. You do all of the above. And Mike Lackey, I believe you're making your Toronto Mike debut today. That would be true, Mike. Thanks for having me. You know, I've tried to get you several times. You're a difficult man to book. Well, yeah, I'm a busy guy.

You're a busy guy. What's your title at Great Lakes Brewing? I'm lead brewer, head brewer, and operations manager. Those are big, lofty titles I'm with here. I feel a little nervous here. You guys should be with the McKay CEO forums here. Okay, congratulations to you both on celebrating 30 years together in craft beer. That's quite the milestone.

Yes, it is. But let's go back to Mr. 305 for a minute. I know, Mike, this isn't really your tune. Sure, of course. You want me to turn it up a little bit? Yeah, a little bit, just so you can. But you have to imagine in Miami at the Clevelander Bar, which is a complete outdoor bar,

primarily football and buckets of cheap American beer. Oh, yeah. With these tunes going and after two or three buckets. He got me. He sold. He sold. When are we going? You know what?

I would say, even if you think, oh, I'm too cool for Pitbull. No, you listen to these in the headphones. You've got a good beer in your hand. What are you drinking right now? Pale Al? I have a Pale Al, yeah. All right. It's perfect.

Perfect beer for the perfect moment. But yeah, I can totally get where you're coming from, Peter. I could get into this. Right. So shout out to Pitbull if you're listening in Miami right now. But 30 years in the craft beer business. We're going to kind of walk through the story. I've got a few other choice jams kind of to guide us along. But this story, When Peter Met Mike, this bromance, decades in

the making, this starts way back in elementary school. So this starts in kindergarten. Where does it begin with you guys? From my memory, I think it's senior kindergarten. Yeah, I moved to the West End, to Swansea, in senior kindergarten. About halfway through, I lived in Leaside until I was five and then came to Swansea. So would have met Peter right away. I used to play hockey at Swansea Hockey Association. Oh, yeah. Benny Park. Well, we did too.

Both of us are alumni. So all three alumni here. Do you guys remember the names of your teams when you played back then? Any memories of the names? Akron Pharmacy, perhaps. I remember there was a Mr. Grocer had a team. Mr. Grocer. I was on Sam's Auto Repair.

Lackey's Marina. Lackey's Marina. That's right. And Lackey's Engineering. Any relation there? Lackey's Engineering. This is any relation? Lackey's Engineering.

Lackey's Marina was spelt differently. L-A-C-K-I-E. Right. And it was Marina down at the base of South Kingsway, which is gone now. But Lackey's Engineering was my dad. Oh, wow. So he sponsored a team. One year I played for a team sponsored by the CN Tower.

It was called the CN Towers. CN Tower, which was sponsored by the president, who was Dave Garrick, who lived on Ellis Avenue, too. He knows his stuff. Okay, so basically, Peter, you were at Swansea Public School when Mr. Mike Lackey joins you in senior kindergarten. No, hang on, let me correct you. Let's get this right.

It's the same thing. Me and my mom and sisters were living in Downsview. Okay. Just north of Yorkdale, were living in Downsview. Okay. Just north of Yorkdale, a little neighborhood called Fayview. And we moved. My dad built the house that we grew up in. It's the same thing. I was five in my first senior kindergarten.

I remember my mom walking me to school. Yeah. The first day, I think that was it. I was on my own after that. Was it friendship at first sight? Like, tell me about how you guys realized you guys were destined to be buds. Well, you know, when Mrs. Morgan was, not Mrs. Morgan, Mrs. She's going to come.

No. Our kindergarten teacher was mixing lemonade. We had to mix the lemonade in. I remember drinking lemonade with Mike. Oh, wow. Okay, awesome. So lemonade brings you together at Swansea Public School, senior kindergarten.

Age of six. Mike Lackey, Peter Bullitt, junior. And friendship and a bond blossoms. You guys just hit it off and became, what, were you best buds or just in the same circle there? I would say we probably over the 45 years we've known each other, there's been moments where we've, you know, drifted apart, done different things, but then things kept happening, circumstances would happen, and we'd come back together. Yeah, I would say the same thing. For sure.

What happens when you guys, I guess Swansea goes to grade 8, right? Yeah. circumstances would happen and we'd come back together. I would say the same thing. For sure. What happens when you guys, I guess Swansea goes to grade 8, right? Yep. Okay. So what happens for grade 9? Do you guys end up at the same high school? Yes, we do. Well, the one thing in Swansea I do remember is we were on a bike ride and we were flying down South Kingsway at high speeds. I had my head down, I guess, and Peter turned to go in his driveway,

and I wasn't paying attention, and I T-boned him, going at probably about 40 kilometers an hour, paddling hard right into him. We ended up in a heap on South Kingsway, which is a busy street, as you know, Mike. So it was quite dangerous. Very dangerous. It was all my fault. Yep.

And South Kingsway is a hill. Like, that's a big hill. Oh, yeah. It was right at the bottom of the hill. So we is a hill. Like, that's a big hill. Oh, yeah. It was right at the bottom of the hill. So we were really. Like Queensway around there? Or even. North of that.

Oh, wow. So right at kind of the bottom of the steep part. We really collided. And I think Peter hated me for a little bit. Bruce, I was pissed. He's like, I told you we're going to my house. I've had Jeff Merrick on the program. And he talks about Humberside Collegiate and he talks about Humberside Collegiate.

He went to Humberside Collegiate. He talks about, you know, Mr. J, his favorite math teacher, who is Sofia Zhirkovich. Hope I didn't butcher that. Sofia's dad. She's like a sports media personality who worked at Sportsnet and stuff. But it's Humberside Collegiate is where you guys go after Swansea, right?

That's correct. I feel like you're being cross-examined here. I love the sounds in the background. We got a bit of wind, but I also hear like speedsters on the Gardner Expressway. Well, did you let people know that we're on the patio of GLB? Let's do it right now. Okay. So we are live on location.

I'm going to take some pictures. But we're live at Great Lakes Brewery. We're drinking some fresh craft beer from GLB. It's really... I can't tell. Some of these clouds look a little dark, but I feel like they're going to hold off. This is going to be a very dry and

warm afternoon to be out here on the patio. That's for sure. At least we're not getting beaten by the sun. We've got a tent above us. I need one of these for my backyard. I record sometimes in my backyard, actually often. And then when the skies open up, I'm pretty screwed. I'm going to have to sneak one of these into my trailer and bring it home. There's not many events going on right now, so you may be able to.

Hey, can we address that while we go down memory lane with you guys? And there's a great story here. The most frequently asked question I get as an ambassador for Great Lakes Brewery is when is the patio going to open? So which one of you two wants to handle that one? When's this patio going to open? I could handle it.

It's going to open soon. So we made a conscious effort not to open uh even though we could because the the you know our partners the bar industry has been impacted so dramatically we just encourage people go to go to your local go to your local bar preferably in etobicoke but if you're not from etobicoke you can go to a bar not in etobico. And so we thought it'd give us a chance to clean things up. We're going to do some reno. As you can see, the deck's been stained now just last week. Looks great.

We're going to do some light renos inside and move the fridges around and get some tables and chairs going. So we're preparing, I think, a couple three weeks-ish. Okay, this is big news because on August 27, August 27, this is important, there is a Toronto Mic Listener Experience where we're going to have our Pandemic Friday finale.

And we're looking for a place to happen as the Tragically Hip would say. Like, everybody wants to do it here. Right. And I'm waiting for like,

you know, a go-ahead from GLB that they'll be open and that we can just record here and people can come out August 27. It sounds like you'll be open before August 27 can just record here and people can come out August 27th.

It sounds like you'll be open before August 27th. I think you're putting the pressure on, Peter, right now. Right here. Right here, right now. Yeah. We better bring Troy Birch in the mix and staff up, get ready. But what would you say the likelihood of TMLX8 happening on this patio on August 28th, if you had to put a number on that?

I'd say pretty good. Pretty good odds. You know, maybe. All right, good. I'm going to pull that clip and play it for Troy when I'm negotiating with him. He's probably listening.

You'd have to be out here because we're not live anywhere. He still knows. He still knows. I see him there with the Whisper 2000. You remember the Whisper 2000? Oh, yeah.

Did that work? Oh, yeah. Or was that a scam? Those commercials were very compelling. They were very compelling. You could hear a conversation over there.

It would always be like a girl would be saying, oh, I've got a crush on Bobby or something. People would have much more nefarious uses for it, I would think.

But they could hear things from so far away. Shout out to the Whisper 2000. Okay, so you guys both go to Humberside Collegiate after Swansea Public School. I was in this neighborhood, you know. I went from Pius, which was Shane and Bloor, and then I went to Michael Power. Because I was stuck in this Catholic stream. I wasn't free Power. Yep. Because I was stuck in this Catholic stream. I wasn't free like you guys.

Yeah, yeah. But I feel like in an alternate universe, if I didn't have that going on, I would definitely have been like a Swansea to Humberside guy. Humberside, yeah. Or Humbercrest to Humberside maybe. Right, yeah, right. But around there.

We talked to those people too. They were okay. St. Pius, no. Not so much. Oh, we wouldn't talk to them. The Pius Panthers? The Catholics, no way. No, you're smart. Smart move, no, not so much The Pius Panthers? The Catholics, no way No, you're smart, smart move Okay, so is it

Humberside Collegiate that you guys go to? Yeah, I think at the start probably another time where we drifted apart, I was a heavy meddler, I had the long hair and the baseball shirts with the white sleeves and Peter was into the breakdancing

I think at the time, and the funk into the break dancing I think. And the funk. And the funk which was hot. That was more grade 7-8 but it did morph into high school for sure that you brought some of that with you. Yeah so we you know you kind of get different friends and you hang out I hung out with the meddlers and Pete was hanging out with Andre Coriat and

Corey Hunt and those guys. The funksters. It's funny because we obviously we knew each other and we were pals. Right. But we still would like holler shit at each other. We'd be like, oh, you're just a metalhead. Oh, you headbanger. Oh, I remember these clicks.

Oh, yeah, you Funkster. I totally remember these clicks that were formed. But I feel like in, I don't know, years later when you guys are both well out of school, like you'd take those two groups, you'd mash them together, and you'd get like new metal I feel like you'd get like something really cool or some kind of funk

or some Red Hot Chili Peppers or something like that where funk and rock kind of merge and match I always liked Public Enemy and Anthrax doing big noise exactly it was all cool Run DMC and Aerosmith that was the first one I feel absolutely noise. Yeah, exactly. It was all cool. Run DMC and Aerosmith. Aerosmith.

That was the first one, I feel. Absolutely. Cool. For the record, because I want to get this on the record. I've never put this on the record yet, but do you guys hang around with Jeff Merrick at Humberside Collegiate? Yeah, I did quite a bit. We played ball hockey together on the

Young Guns. I got a Young Guns. I got a Young Gun on my street. Okay. Andrew, and then there's a long Polish name. Przyszkos, yeah. So he was our goalie, and Jeff played defense. He talks about the Young Guns. I'm serious.

That's wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's wild. So me, Jeff, and Andy were on that team, yeah. And we all went to Humberside and then played on this ball hockey team. Merrick and I used to go to Toronto Planets games quite a bit too, which was a professional roller hockey team. Where did they play?

At Varsity Arena. Yeah, so we used to, I don't know if we had season tickets, but we went down to a bunch of games. We were big Toronto Planets fans. Wow. How long did the Planets last? Do you know, like approximately? Two or three

years maybe. I remember Dan Daou was on the team. I remember the Toronto Toros. Toronto Toros was ice hockey.

That's ice hockey. Okay and Dan Daou was on the planets. When he was done NHL he got a job on the planets. Merrick also worked here.

He worked here for six months. Well, we'll get to that. Let's save that. We haven't even opened this brewery yet. Come on, man. We got you at... So you're at... But I understand that you guys switch high schools together?

Is that... You guys leave Humberside for Runnymede? And I think it was one of those... Left. Kind of unknowingly. Because, like you said, we'd sort of drift in and out of hanging out. And I ended up going to Runnymede. then the same thing for mike i assume like his memory might be better but show up there and it's like hey lack what's going on what are you doing here wow i have a buddy like

that my buddy joe where we just sort of like we were best friends at saint cecilia's before i went to pious actually and then we met again at power and then we one day we find out we live in New Toronto five blocks from each other like it was just one of those in and outs things so yeah it was just easy so we would uh and then I think the first day we're like hey you want to go play pinball after school so I'll write the pinball so why do you guys like because you guys each make this decision sounds like on your own but why change from Humberside to Runnamy like what was that Runnammede that you... Well, I don't want to go on this record. Yeah, no.

Well, it may have been marks-driven. Yeah. Runnymede was a... Well, Runnymede was a semester school. You can plead the fifth. This is like a... We got kicked out. We got kicked out.

We pretty much got kicked out. No, Runnymede was semester, so you could kind of catch up. I got you. You could take double math and double English. You know who went to Runnymede Collegiate? The great Dwight Drummond. Oh, Dwight Drummond.

Dwight Drummond went to Runnymede Collegiate. So shout out to Dwight Drummond here. But you're still hanging out. Now here we get to the brewery part. So soon we'll get

to the Merrick part. But is it 1991? 1991. Yeah. And you got a, there's a brewery in Brampton, Ontario that's struggling. You tell me the story, Peter, but this involves your father here.

Yep. So there was Bruce Cornish, one of the founders of Great Lakes Brewing Company in 1987. They were really struggling in the 90s and into 91 hey thanks cheers man uh big struggles they uh they basically had to close the doors and uh they were trying to figure out how to get this thing back off the ground and somehow i think by memory it had the connection to the landlord of where the brewery was was a greek guy and my dad dad was half Greek and used to hang out with Greek guys and then sort of networked through and found out, hey, this brewery, something's up. So Bruce started hanging out with my dad and trying to woo him to buy the company.

And, of course, my dad really dragged that on and used Bruce's mechanic skills to fix some because we were in the construction business. So, oh, Bruce, okay, let's not talk about the brewery right now let's go let's go fix the backhoe so he fixes the backhoe then he's got to fix the bulldozer then he's got to fix the forklift and they just sort of hung out and my dad just wanted to earn you know just to see who this guy is we can trust them sure and that went on i think by, not a very good memory, but I'd say from January, February, right up until sort of May, April, May, when dad pulled the trigger and said, all right, we're going to do it. So in that time, you know, he was asking me, he says, what do you think about

the idea of a brewery? I was, you know, 20 years old or whatever. I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, 20 years old or whatever. Yeah, 20 years old. I'm like, oh, my God, yeah. Let's do it. So you basically are like, you get to, you know, you and your dad, and your dad's going to run this brewery, and you're 20 years old, so you're obviously psyched about this. And then where does Mike Lackey reenter the fray here?

Well, let Mike take that over. Yeah, I think it was, I don't remember for sure, but I think it was Daveave licorice who's a good friend of both of ours uh was kind of just one day over at his house and he said hey did you hear that bullet uh bought a brewery and i was like you're joking let me let me dig up that number you know i probably hadn't called for two or three years or i didn't dig it up. You remembered it, right? We remember it all. Yeah, that's all you had back then. Yeah, you remember these numbers. 7, 6, 3, 6, 3, 2, 5. 6, 5.

6, 5. That's close. Good for you. I would have got it. Is this before you needed to put the 416 in there? Let me try. Yeah, yeah. 7, 6, 6, 6, 4, 4, 0.

That is correct. Isn't that funny? Boom. Look at my goosebumps. I haven't said that number in 20 years. It's wild how that works, eh? Like, we just did it. Now, nowadays, because, you know, you tell my teenagers they have to memorize all the numbers.

They're like, what? What? I know. They don't even know my number, I don't think. Yeah, I know. I couldn't tell you my son's number. No. Do you know your number?

Yes, I do. Okay. That's an IQ test. Lackey, do you have a smartphone? Do you know your number? I know my number, yes, I do. Okay. That's an IQ test. Lackey, do you have a smartphone? You know your number? I know my number, yes, I do. So you pick up the phone. You're like, I hear your dad owns a brewery.

Yeah, I said he owns a brewery, and I want to work there. And Peter was like, oh, we don't even know what's going on yet. He's like, we're not really, you know, we don't need any hands really. He was like, well, you must need some for canning or something. And I don't need money, just give me beer. And he's like, okay're not really, you know, we don't need any hands really. He was like, well, you must need some for canning or something. I don't need money. Just give me a beer. And he's like, okay, come in tomorrow. So I went in the next day.

The price was right. Yep. The price was right, and I was happy with it. So me and Kenny Licorice, God rest his soul, went in and we did some packaging. Cheers to Kenny. Cheers. Cheers. To Kenny.

Cheers. Sorry. To Kenny. Cheers. Sorry. We did some packaging, and then one thing kind of led to another and got busier, so needed people, and I was there already, so that's how it started. Okay. Is this correct? I got this information from Troy, so I just want to corroborate it right now. But, Lackey, you're're the second employee of this. Well, you're the second employee since Bullitt Sr. takes it over?

How does that work? Yeah, I don't remember anybody else working there. Even before Aneta. And Peter, you're the first employee. So you two are the first employees. And Peter, you're the first employee. So you two are the first employees. And the second. Amazing, amazing.

So you guys have this brewery now. Who can tell me the Jeff Merrick story? He has, you know, he's teased it a couple of times on Toronto Mic'd, but let's get the full story about Jeff Merrick at Great Lakes Brewery. He was working at Park Lawn Cemetery. Burying Harold Ballard. I've heard this story a million times. It's his famous story. I've heard it.

I hear it quite frequently on the radio, actually. It's on his business card. Yeah, he loves that story. It's good. But it's a good one. Oh, if I had that story, I wouldn't shut up either. I'd get a t-shirt made. Burying Harold Ballard.

So I think maybe shortly after that, he was looking for work, and we were playing hockey together. So we got Merrick down here. Wow. And what I remember him working here is he would be my helper. I did, on Tuesdays, I would do overnight because we had a filter which took 24 hours, which is crazy in and of itself. And Merrick would be my assistant.

So we would do, on Tuesday nights, he'd come in and we'd work an overnight shift. In the middle of all week doing day shifts, so we'd be, we really messed up. But we were 21, 22 years old, so we could kind of handle it. I mean, there's no way I could do that now. Amazing. How long approximately does Merrick last at Great Lakes Brewery? I would say six months, something like that, off the top of my head. That's a good effort for Jeff. Your memory's better than mine.

And then he went on to commentary and all those good things he's doing. Now he rules the world now. He's a BFT, as we say. BFT. BFT. Now, the craft brewery as like

as an industry now we're going back you said like 90 91 is that what you were correct you kind of entered the fray

like tell me a little bit Peter about like the revitalization revitalization of this industry and maybe together like you guys are kind of there

for the early years of the craft beer scene scene like tell me what that's like um it was crazy time it wasn't um how would you say it was it was uh it was a tough time but we flourished early on really quickly uh because as i mentioned before my dad was half Greek could speak fluent Greek Serbian and Italian and back in the 90s a lot of a lot of Greek people owned a lot well a lot of restaurants here in Toronto and a lot of

Yugoslavian guys own a lot of bars out the agra way so he just had to run out with the mother tongue and uh uh you know our beer was the exact same price as uh molson labatt back then and i i don't know why i remember it was 127 86 and we put our price point at the same spot and he just wooed them with romance and love and started getting draft taps we were we were bottling beer but it wasn't a focal point the retail store in brampton was nothing to be really sought after it was a small industrial mall and we were five units back remind me peter what year do you move here? That same year. Okay. So it was a really small pilot system.

We call it a pilot now, but it was 1,800 liters, a brew kettle, two fermenters, two aging tanks, and one bright tank. And as soon as Dad bought the brewery, they were making beer with extract, which is basically malt syrup, pouring it into a boiling it up and sending it uh sending it on uh we got a mash larder ton right away and started making beer with grain which is how it's supposed to be made and you know change the uh change the recipe hired a brewmaster uh to develop the recipe for us and you know at the time my dad's like I want it right in between blue and Canadian. You know, he wanted nice, easy drinking, mainstream lager,

but made, you know, made with all grain and all natural, of course. And we started kegging, and we really quickly outgrew the 26 or 2,800 square foot facility in Brampton. But, you know know before that happened it was a matter of months we just filled that little space with tanks like if you can imagine no space to move wow yeah what was in this facility before you got here do you mean yeah it was it was a machine shop i think they were primarily making uh meters for taxi cabs. Oh, okay. And I think they shipped all over North America. Cool.

I could be wrong. Originally it was Fabergé, right, making perfume. Correct. The building was actually built for Fabergé, custom built this building for themselves. Wow. Wow. So you guys are there at the beginning,

and then we know where you are now. So, like, Mike, how did you guys change the game here with Ontario Craft Beer? Like, when do we get, like, you get a lot of credit around here for some of these, you know, innovations coming out of Great Lakes. Like, at what point, like, I guess I'm curious, like, how do you go from the guy, I know you were doing it all. Like, you guys had to do everything, deliver the kegs. You had to clean the tanks. You're doing everything. That's what it was like back then. But now you've got this innovative new beers that everybody's loving.

How do you get there? How do you become the chief brewmaster? Yeah, for the first 15, 18 years, I would say, we didn't really know what we had to be honest. I don't think anybody here did. We were just trying to get by. We were having a good time but we didn't

really realize what was the potential that we had. The big moment for me for sure was going in 2008. We went down to San Diego to the American Beer Conference for sure uh was going in 2008 we went down to san diego to uh the american beer conference the brewers conference there and it just kind of it was mind-blowing what was possible uh

and it was just like you had like an epiphany epiphany a complete epiphany in we went to a couple seminars and was it within five ten minutes it's's like, oh, we can do this. So I talked to Peter like the first night, very excited. And, uh, and he was like, yeah, we can do all this. Let's, let's do it. That's an exciting moment, right? When you start, it starts to crystallize. You can see I've had this moment, like when you start to see what this could be. And then you realize it's in your means to make it happen. Exactly. We were already, we're halfway there, you know, and we are more than halfway there. We just had to do it. Just get it pushed over the edge.

Let's do it. So by, I would say two months after that, we were down the road to different flavors and all the beers that we have today. What's your favorite beer at Great Lakes? Mike Lackey. Great question. Mike Boone. I just want people beer at Great Lakes? Mike Lackey. Great question. Mike Boone.

I just want people to know who I'm addressing. Right. It changes quite a bit. I would say Canuck, though, is, that was one of the first ones, or maybe the first recipe we did on the small system. So I don't drink it too much in the summer because I drink the lighter stuff like Sunnyside,

but Canuck is probably my favorite, yeah. Hey, before I ask that same question of you, Peter, who is responsible for the branding update of Canuck? That's a team effort led by Fabian. Fabian is our guy here, does all the artwork. The director. I saw him moments ago, yeah. And Patrick Corrigan

of course the Toronto Star correct he's our drawer our illustrator he makes he makes the ideas come to life cuz like so eloquently and perfectly it's amazing but I want to go back yeah to the question that you asked Mike about the the big turning point cuz yeah in my mind and I've used this story a lot, in 2002, we joined the Small Brewers Association, led by the fella, which his name's not coming clearly right now, at Cremor. I remember getting a phone call and saying,

hey, we've started this group and we want your support. I said, no problem. I'm behind you. Let's do something. And I think it was a very insignificant financial contribution that we made back then to lobby the federal government to change excise tax. Because like I told you about the price of the keg, I think it was when you went to get a beer. when you went to get a beer. That number is stuck in my head too because back then, previous to 2006, we were paying $27.985 per hectoliter of beer produced,

which was really choking the industry and really didn't give us any cash to do stuff with. So it was a four-year lobby and we got the Canadian government to mirror the American government the excise taxation there and so small guys get small get taxed really small and then it steps up as your production goes up so for us back in 2006 I think the number was around $200,000 a year that was going back in our pocket so previous previous to 2006, we had absolutely no budget to do anything.

And now it was like we had $200,000, so we could buy glass. We could think about investing in equipment. We could think about design and starting to change the plant and actually doing stuff around the brewery that would help inspire some creativity. You could pay me to fart around with a little 50 liters. Finally, we started paying Mike. I was going to say, does he still work for beer?

After 15 years. 2006, I started. Peter, it sounds like that's a moment where you realize, wait, you can actually make money brewing good craft beer in this province. Exactly. Wow. I think a lot of new brewers don't know that story. They probably maybe don't even care, but for us it meant survival. And back then it was,

it was, it was not easy. This was not an easy business and it was definitely much harder in 2000 and pre 2006. I'll bet. And I I'm reading here that Project X won a couple of big awards and I'm just reading about all the success you've had over these 30 years of brewing fresh craft beer here kudos to you guys honestly

and I love the fact that you guys were senior kindergarten friends that's the best that's the best but I have a few more questions. Can't let you off the hook that easily. And some jams here. Oh, our professional photographer has arrived, so smile.

But Peter, what's your favorite beer at Great Lakes Brewery? So my usual answer is the one that's in my hand. That's the answer. Right? That's kind of the go-to. But like Mike as well, I like the low alcohol, high flavor beers. Mostly because I like consuming beer. Right.

And you can consume more beer if it has less alcohol. Right. So it's really enjoyable. Well, I got the sunny side in my glass because... Great choice. Absolutely. On a hot summer night or evening or afternoon or morning or whatever, whatever floats your boat,

whatever it is like, cause I really liked the octopus wants to fight, but all, you know, I dealt down a couple of those and I'll be like, that's that hits you. It hits you hard. It hits me.

Oh yeah. But sunny side. There you go. Here's the second one. A whole different ball game here. So, um, here's a big question.

I'm going to put you guys on the spot. So, Peter, we mentioned you're the owner and the president. Mike Lackey, your official title, by the way, maybe you don't even know this, Brewing Operations Manager. Oh, okay. Which is even more impressive than what you were spewing there. I feel like that's a big fucking title. Pardon my French.

So I want you guys to share with me your favorite character trait and your least favorite character trait of the other. So we'll start. I know I'm putting you on the spot here. But Peter, I want you to look into Mike Lackey's beautiful eyes there and share with me what is his best, his greatest character trait. Why can't I say the word character? Maybe it's the beer. Character trait.

Character trait? I think it's the fun, funny, boisterous, which then morphs into some awesome creativity. Oh, here we go.

Little background music here as we talk about your friendship here. It's very touching. Tell Peter to go on. He's got more there, I feel. Oh, there's way more. Yeah, there's honestly, there's a unique

fun side, silliness, almost dopey attraction. Thank you very much. Dopey. I say that as a compliment. And is there any Mike Lackey characteristics you'd like to share with us that maybe you don't love and you can plead the fifth on this if you like

but no because I've you know after 45 years I've learned to accept it you know it's kind of like when you're married you gotta not everything in life is perfect so you don't you don't go down that road. Smart.

You're just like, all right, hey, he does that, or that bothers me, but it doesn't bother me because all the other stuff makes up for it. That's why you're the president, right? Well played here. Mike, I ask you now, Peter Bullitt Jr., what's your favorite Peter Bullitt Jr. characteristic or character trait? Well, I think the thing that works the best is he's the same as me. At the end of the day, you know, he's serious about the business, obviously.

He wants to have fun, you have fun and enjoy his life. Largely puts life before the business even sometimes. I think enjoying himself. Maybe. Too much? Maybe sometimes to a fault. What do you say, Mike? But I do as well.

But I think it comes through in the beer and the whole uh the whole uh atmosphere around the brewery that it's a fun place uh so that's important to me obviously um but i'll share one thing that would kind of be the positive and maybe the negative about peter too uh there's a scene in a league of their own with tom hanks and madonna's in. And one of the players can't hit the cutoff man. And they keep missing the cutoff man. And he loses it on the person at first and they cry. So he says, okay, I have to do better at this. So the next time she misses the cutoff man, he's shaking with anger.

It's an amazing acting job by Tom Hanks. But he goes through it, and he has some empathy for the person. And it's kind of one thing that Peter has. He gets very frustrated with things, maybe to a fault, you know, instead of kind of letting it roll off his back. But he does well at controlling it and trying to look on the bright side and get through to the end of the day. And I'm sure he's had that many times with me

where he'll have that Tom Hanks moment where he's like, I just want to strangle this guy. But you know what? At the end of the day, it's going to be better if I just convey things calmly as i possibly can so i see peter doing that often the tom hanks moment and i think that's a good thing you gotta watch that also there's no crying there's no crying in baseball yeah i feel like that's the moment we realize a tom hanks can really act oh yeah he Oh, yeah. He's not just, even though Big was pretty good too.

But then after that, he goes on this run where he just does like Philadelphia and Forrest Gump and all these. Now is his moment. A League of Thrones. Pond 13. It's incredible acting. It's just incredible. I feel like Tom Hanks would like a glass of Great Lakes beer. He'd be a Great Lakes kind of guy.

Oh, yeah. For sure. Oh, yeah. For sure. Oh, yeah. Hanks, he's going to space. Is he? He's on one of those. He's one of those billionaires. $300,000 or something to fly to space.

I think it's $20 million. I thought I heard that yesterday. I don't know. Tom Hanks is going. He's going to space. Holy moly. I know. I've been keeping up with the billionaire space race here.

It's tough to keep up with everything. But that was a sweet answer. Like, how did it feel hearing your buddy Mike Lackey talk about you like that? Like, there's some real love here. Well, it's funny because they were making fun of me about three or so weeks ago about that Tom Hanks scene. And I hadn't seen it before. And he showed it to me. And I was like, no, I don't do that, man. And they and they're like oh yes you do I get I get pent up pent up I don't want

to bring stuff up and then I just kind of joke and talk like this so Mike why do you think you're so good at this like uh like obviously you've been around the craft beer for 30 freaking years so but but at what point did you realize you could take ownership of these different beers, innovative beers and experimental beers? Oh, it's just a dedication to, I mean, right from the start, I was dedicated to beer. And, you know, I try to not be at the brewery all the time these days. But at the beginning, I was a brewery rat. Like, I really was a brewery rat.

We did long hours, and it was tough work. Where are you when you're not here? I'm doing a lot of cycling these days. I heard this through the grapevine. I need some details because I do a lot of cycling too. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, I try to go, you know, 1,000 kilometers a month. And I've been doing all right with that.

So I got a bike about a year ago. You know, that's my target. 1,000 a month is my target. 1,000 a month, yeah. Wow. It's not easy to do. It's not easy. It takes a lot of time.

It takes time. And it's good having a boss. Try doing it in January. That's my target for January. It's good having a boss who understands and is completely supportive. But when did you start this? Because once it got in my blood I couldn't shake it. Oh it's fantastic. And I have to do it daily. Yeah, yeah it's great.

So when did this bug, like when did you get the cycling bug? Yeah I have a friend who cycles and he said you should do it. I was like, yeah, whatever. I'm a hockey player. Oh, yeah, I see you at Church Bellarino back in the day. But then it closed, so I'm an active guy too, or I try to be. So when hockey stopped, I was like, okay, I'm going to get a bike and try it. And I rode across the city a couple times and loved it. So I got another bike

and now I try to do a thousand a month now I want another bike now I want another bike yeah which is a thing you get don't you find it tough since the pandemic don't you find it tough to find a bikes and bike parts like I'm actually struggling like seriously to find certain parts and certain types of bikes like they're just i can't find them yeah well i haven't really looked here but i got lucky i was looking for uh cervello specifically and i found one in bc i called an old high school friend of ours ian young another employee who i knew lived in bc that's all i knew i didn't know where. And it turned out that he was in the same town the bike was. Wow. And he was driving back to

Toronto the next day. Oh, wow. In a pickup truck. In a pickup truck. Oh, perfect. And he's like, yeah, I'll come pick it up right now. And I had it here in three days. So I was almost given up getting a bike and I got this cheap bike from BC in three days. And it was meant to be, so I've just been

riding for a year. Amazing. Hey, I got one more song here before we wrap up here, but here's a jam I feel is appropriate for you two gentlemen here. Tell me if you know this one. In some of my songs I have casually mentioned

The fact that I like to drink beer This little song is more to the point Roll out the barrel and lend me your ears I like beer It makes me a jolly good fellow I like beer This sounds about right. It helps me unwind

Me too. Kind of summarizes this podcast makes him feel palo whiskey's too rough so this is Tom T. Hall

and I felt like this kind of sums it all up but 30 years in craft beer 45 years or so being buds amazing

so maybe before we wrap up and shut her down, what's new at Great Lakes? Like what, what can you share that's new here at the brewery? Or do you want to pull Troy into that one? No, but I do, I do want to tell a story. Yeah, please do. I got to tell this story. This is really funny. So in high school, when I turned 16, I got my driver's license. I think the very next day, my 365, and one month later, I got my license.

And then, you know, we had a few cars in the family, so there's typically always access to a car. So I was one of the few kids at high school. There was some, but I was one of the few that had high school there was there's some but I was one of the few that had a car basically are very good access to one and Mike and I we you know we love skiing back in the day and they always had these school trips so they organized these school trips which involved the bus and I'm like Mike you want to go you want to go skiing so yeah I don't go no frickin bus with those guys I said, we're not going on a bus.

I'm driving. So we'd actually sign up. We'd pay the registration minus the bus fee and then we'd go skiing for the day but we'd go up and just cranking ACDC in the car. Wow. And we'd ski for the day. Great stereo system. Peter always had really good stereo. The Alpine?

Was it an Alpine? Oh yeah, whatever. He had subwoofers. Oh, yeah. And is this back in black? Is that the disc you're spinning? Because that was my big high school disc. Oh, yeah. All of it.

I liked all the ACBs. We had the tapes. You know, where the tape's going. Sure. Yeah, cassettes. Highway to Hell. Highway to Hell. Okay, that's pre, that's with the original singer.

With Bon Scott, yeah. So, I'm a big Bon Scott guy. Okay, I can't, you know, it's funny. They sound similar to me. Like they have the same. Oh, yeah. Not to me. Not to me.

Right? He's a deep diver into ACDC here. Oh, yeah. But that's wild. Like any other stories you want to share about your bromance before we hear some lowest of the low? Like how long will this go? How long will this go?

Are you guys going to be... Okay, I got another story. Yeah, let's hear it. It was good. So when Mike's 25th anniversary of the brewery came around, I just thought it was more of a gag kind of thing, but you talk about corporate stuff, and the guy gets the watch. No, that's 20.

Oh, that was 20? No, that was 20. That was like 10 years ago. Oh, sorry. That was a while ago. Yeah, that was 20? No, that was 20. That was like 10 years ago. Oh, sorry. That was a while ago. Yeah, you get a gold watch or something. Right.

So it wasn't gold, of course, but it had GLB in it. It was whatever, a couple hundred. It was a nice watch. He never wore a wristwatch until cycling because now he's got

all the computer shit on his wrist, but he never wore a watch and I didn't really buy it for him to wear it, but it was more like you got to get the watch. Right.

And so, uh, so we got, we got that watch. That was, that was, I don't know. I found that pretty funny.

Did you, uh, you didn't pawn it off or anything. He didn't. No, I didn't. You lost it though. It's gone.

I'm not sure what that is. Do you have any favorite trails you can tell me about, uh, Mike, uh, for cycling? Uh, yeah,

I don't, I don't ride trails. I just do road. I do a mixed match. I went to BMO Field last night for TFC and I took Waterfront Trail to that one. I just find the trails too busy and it seems like it's more

for pedestrians and then they get mad at you if you're going too fast. I like to go fast. You're not going to do 1,000 kilometers a month on Toronto lakefront. He probably has. Mike probably has. I do, but I do like the Humber Trail, too.

Like, I'll do a little hybrid of, like, waterfront plus Humber Trail. Sure. But, yeah, like, I find, like, I like streets. Like, I got orders to get Pondesal,

which is Filipino buns, Filipino bread, basically, like sweet bread. And I was told, okay, you have to go to Manila bakery. It's at here, Ontario and Dundas. So I do this waterfront trail to here, Ontario. I'll shoot up there, grab the buns and I'll take Dundas all the way across to like rural York and I'll shoot down. The whole thing will end up being like 35 to 40 K or something, but it's like a hybrid. There's some trail in there. There's some streets in there streets in there but yeah i just i just love getting out there and cycling so yeah i totally get it it's for me it's best to get to the country roads like i did uh 180 kilometers went up to hockley valley and it's just gorgeous i've never done 180 my record's like 135 or something oh it

was never done i love it getting up there and there. And on the country roads, there's some cars, but they pull way over for you. They give you a lot of respect. Amazing. That's what's fun. There's got to be some pickup trucks that just go, fuck this guy. It's always pickup trucks.

Pickup trucks, and they floor it right by you. Okay, true story. I'm on rural York one day in the bike lane. There's a bike lane in rural York. I'm in the bike lane, and a pickup truck told me to get off the effing road. I'm like, do you want me on the sidewalk? Is that where I'm supposed to be? Like, where exactly am I?

I don't know. They try to hit you with a mirror, I'm sure. They try. They come close and they rev past you. Like, screw you. Yeah, they just resent you being there. Like, somehow these roads belong to cars. It's strange. And it's dangerous because they they just resent you being there. Somehow these roads belong to cars. It's strange.

And it's dangerous because they won't give you your space because they're making some points or something. Think about it. We're on our bikes. They're in this huge chunk of metal. It's not going to go well for us. It's not going to go well for us. This is serious business. I got four kids. I can't become mashed potatoes.

Peter Bullitt Jr. and Mike Lackey, honestly, I wish you the best. This is 30 years in craft beer. I'm glad we could chat about it all. It's just a beautiful story, and I hope it goes another 30 years. Amazing. Oh, so wait. So that was the story. Now I remember.

What about the watch? Oh, the watch. After I gave him the watch. It's for walking in Pulp Fiction. No, it came back. About the watch. Oh, the watch. Okay. So after I gave him the watch. It's for walking in Pulp Fiction. No, it came back. It just came back. So things come and go out of this noodle because we've consumed a lot of beer in our day. So I said to Mike, hey, you know, here's after I did the public announcement, Mike Lackey,

here's the watch, blah, blah. He's like, Bullet, I'm going to work for you for my whole life. And that really touched me. That was a moment. That's binding. You know that a moment. That's binding. You know that, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay.

He might have been drunk at the time, but. Definitely. As long as I can keep going 1,000 kilometers a month, and there's complete support from Tom Hanks over here. How often do you hit the target? I've done every month. So when did you start this? First one would have been August last year.

Good for you, because I find it, maybe it's time, but I also, I never had enough time. Like, I felt time's my enemy. Four kids might do that. There's a bit of cheating, too. I have it. I'm counting kilometers on a trainer.

Oh, that is cheating. It's cheating, I know. I don't count trainer. No, it's only real world. January, February, the thousand. He's cheating. No, but only January, February. I did December and March.

Honestly. So that's pretty good. You're a man that's... Yeah. Love it. I love it. I love cycling. I love the fact you cycle.

I love Great Lakes Brewery. I love the support that you guys have given this program, fueling the real talk for I don't know how many years now, honestly. And on August 27. Guaranteed by Peter Bullitt after two beers at noon. There are so many FOTMs, Friends of Toronto Mike, excited about this event because it's been so long in the making here. And if I could, and I'll talk to Troy before I do this, but if I could make the official announcement that TMLX 8 is on August 27th

at Great Lakes Brewery, that'll be big, man. That'll be so big. I've got to talk to Troy right away. Put some heat on here. Oh, my goodness. But thanks so much for this, man. Great conversation. Great beer.

And, again, congratulations on 30 years in the craft uh brewery business 45 together 45 together you know most marriages don't go 45 years you don't get that for murder no and that that brings us to the end of our 888th show. I just love that number, 888. Octopus wants to fight. You'll never forget. Yeah, you'll never forget your episode 888, Lackey. You're going to get a tattoo, I think, 888.

Yeah, definitely. Now, you can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Now, Mike, you're on Twitter. You don't tweet too much, but what is your Twitter handle? Lackey 101. Lackey 101.

L-A-C-K-E-Y 101. Now, Peter, you're not on Twitter. I am not. I am not on Facebook. I am not on Instagram. I'm nowhere there. But Great Lakes Brewery is at GreatLakesBeer.com. So follow Great Lakes Beer.

Mackie CEO Forums are at Mackie CEO Forums. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Palmapasta is at Palmapasta. StickerU is at StickerU. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at RidleyFH. And MimicoMike, he's not on Twitter, but he's on Instagram

at MajeskiGroupHomes. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started. the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit roamphone.ca to get started. ¶¶

Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain. And I've kissed you in places I better not name. And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour. But I like it much better going down on you. Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms us today

And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now everything is rosy and everything is rosy and great yeah Thank you.