Trading Secrets - 186. More Than Money: Job market expert Jerry Lee breaks down how to land a new job! LinkedIn hacks, debunking career advice, and more

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

This week, Jason is joined by job market expert and COO of Wonsulting, Jerry Lee! Jerry shares his career history including his time at Google and working his way up, impact of having a mentor, how he overcame doubts, his best advice to getting your foot in the door, LinkedIn hacks, the power in consistency, how he utilizes monetization on LinkedIn, what Wonsulting does, resources you should know about, debunking certain career advice, and so much more! It’s an episode you can’t afford to miss!  Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest: Jerry Lee Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets, More Than Money Edition. Today's conversation will be a serious game changer for anyone thinking about applying for jobs now or in the future. We're joined by Jerry Lee, job market expert and COO of One Sulting, a career consulting firm focus on helping job seekers from non-target schools and non-traditional backgrounds land their dream jobs. Jerry formally worked at both Google and Lucid before launching his startup. Since then, he has amassed a huge following, and they are reaching 40 million plus professionals. He's been elected as a, wow, I love this one, elected as the 2020 LinkedIn top voice for tech,

earned the distinction of Forbes 30 under 30 in education this year, that one I knew about, and his work has been featured in four. Newsweek, Business Insider, Yahoo News, just to name a few. Jerry, thank you so much for being on Trading Secrets. We're so excited to have you. Jason, I feel like I have to hire you as my hype man. Like, no one has made me feel so cool in such a short amount of time.

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you. I love it. The full circle moment here, I actually did an interview where Jerry was interviewing me, and I had seen what once something's done since the launch of TikTok and the advice you guys gave. And I'm like, get his contact info. We need Jerry on because if you are looking to apply, interview, negotiate, land the big jobs, Jerry's got the inside hacks.

And that's where I want to start with you, Jerry. So you were hired by Google and you're one of the youngest analysts and you're promoted multiple times in just a two short year period. So before we get into some specifics about what people could do, I'm curious, what did you do to get promoted so quickly in one of the largest, greatest institutions in the world? Jason, the answer is simple. I listen to your podcast and I applied the secrets. But so I think my answer is influenced heavily by my parents and my upbringing. So one thing that I wear very proudly as a badge is I come from a first generation low income household where my parents had to really work hard financially, culturally, emotionally to even offer me the chance at achieving what else. Others would call the American Dream.

And I feel like my story represents so many other immigrant family stories where their hard work has sort of been instilled into me where I applied the principles of, you know, keeping your head down, hard work, keeping at it and just grinding as much as you possibly can for you to achieve your goals. For me, one of the things I was really blessed with was that when I started at Google, not only did I have the desire to say, hey, listen, my biggest career priority is I want to move up the ladder as quickly as possible, but the second is I had an incredible mentor. I met him around week two of my Google career, and he's played a huge, huge influence in me navigating their promotional promotion process, navigating my stakeholders, but most importantly advocating for myself and the work that I was doing. I love that. That is awesome. I mean, I think mentors are huge. internally at the organization we're for and externally are so, so important. That's actually a good segue, though, because one of the things we hear from our community a lot is that they're dealing with imposter syndrome or they have these aspirations to get in the door and lead at a young age, but they're dealing with like the higher-ups or like, you're too,

you're too young to lead. You know, you just, just be patient. And sometimes it helps to have the gray hair to lead. What helped you overcome some of those doubts that we're hearing a lot from our community? What tips would you give them? Man, Jason, that's what I felt all the time. Going into my organization at the age of 22, the average age between my colleagues were anywhere from about 28 to 35. And so when everyone looked to me, they were saying, oh, hey, look at this cute kid who just graduated college.

And that's what I felt the first three months. And so if there's anything that I felt like has really helped propel me to be a thought leader of the organization, was to let my action speak louder than my words. And so in my organization, one of the things that really dictated how important your project was was how involved is the product team

and the engineering teams involved in your project. And so I learned very quickly on that if those two teams are involved in your project, you're going to be considered a high performer. And so my mentor told me, hey, listen, if you know that, then do it. Then do something there. And so I started joining all the meetings

related to product and engineering. And there was this one point that I think everyone else on the call. There are about 35 people on the call that they missed where they said, hey, there's like a spike in this number. It looks a little odd. And people were saying, oh, yeah, look weird, whatever. But I took it to find myself to say, hey, I'm actually going to look into it. And it turned out to be one of the biggest loopholes that we saw from a product perspective.

I identified it. I involved the product in engineering teams. And within the first six months, I led a team. team of about 30 different folks across legal, product, engineering, marketing, sales, so many more. And that's what sort of put me on the map. And people no longer look to me and go, and, ah, there's that cute college kid, but that, well, that kid built different. And that's what helped me get my first promotion. That's what helped me get my leadership approval. But most importantly, I think that's what helped build my reputation when I started there.

I love, I love coming in with like something huge, incredible like that. because it speaks for itself. You don't have to deal with this subject of nonsense anymore. You can just refer to what you did and how you did it. One of the things I love that you guys do, though, is the fact that you're helping people that aren't in those big Ivy League schools or top 10 or top 20, try and exploit and get into the Facebooks, the Amazon's, the Googles of the world. So what would be one of your tips to someone who's like, man, it would be a dream to work for a big tech company like that?

But I didn't go to Harvard. I didn't go to Yale. How would you suggest someone like that gets into the door at companies like this nature? Yeah, that's a really great question, Jason. So at the end of the day, there's only two ways for you to get interviews. It's either you apply or someone vouches for you internally and goes, you know what, Jason, that guy, he's, we need to give him an interview. And so one of the core principles that we talk about once and all the time is especially if you come from a non-traditional background, yes, you should apply to job. But don't rely on that to be your main source of getting your foot in the door.

Oftentimes, you're going to have to go above and beyond. And what we do tactically, and what we recommend is tell them, reach out to hiring managers. Reach out to people who are looking for interns on your team. Reach out to them on LinkedIn. And one of the things that we also recommend is put together a project proposal. Tactically, two, three slides, slide one of who you are. slide two and three are all about the problems that you would be excited to solve and your initial ideas of how you tackle them. I can guarantee you hiring managers, they have never seen

anything like that. If you're going to be that one person out of the 300 applicants who are going to, who's applying for that internship or that entry level role, but you're the only person who have been thoughtful enough to reach out, share your thoughts and your excitement through your actions, but putting together work like that, game changer. That's how to that. That's how we recommend it. Yeah. That is, I totally agree with everything you said. Those are some of the things I actually talked about in the book. And one big thing I think, guys, for now, it's such an inexpensive thing to like build a website. Imagine if you just buy your URL, build a website for like, you could do it under a thousand bucks these days, like simple, easy, clean and talk about these things. And you

could present them with like a link showing your website of like a deck like this. Think about how slick that looks. I love the idea. I think that's a great idea. I think everyone here should like listen in closely because you don't have to go to Harvard or Yale or Duke if you know and you can leverage those relationships. And if you don't know anybody there, like you said, there's ways to reach out to them. We're going to get into some LinkedIn hacks because I consider you a LinkedIn master. But one question I got to ask you, because we do talk a lot about money on this podcast is for someone that like, you know, I hear it. All the schools, people are targeting to get into these big tech companies. From a, from a compensation standpoint, like what are, what's like a pay

structure at a Google, at Amazon, a Facebook, something like that for a job that we're discussing. So the pay structure typically divided up into sort of four main buckets. One is a one-time signing bonus slash relocation bonus. If you're more from a technical role like software engineering, those typically tend to be higher. So signing bonus is one component. The next is of course of salary, which I think everyone is kind of aware of and know about. The latter two, I don't think many people are aware. unless you're in the tech field. The third is cash bonus.

So typically for companies like Google and Facebook, they'll offer anywhere from about 10 to 20% of your salary. And last but not least, is equity and options. Equity is ownership, the number of shares and ownership that you have within a certain company. If it's like a Google, Facebook, you can sell it on the open market. But if it's smaller a company that maybe isn't public, then you have options. And there's a whole different conversation around that. But typically a compensation structure is divided amongst one of those four pieces in terms of the actual money that you get.

Got it. So suppose, again, and I'm not holding you to these numbers at all, but it's just like a high level. You got five years, someone has five years experience in software engineering. They make the leap into one of these firms. What is like in one standard deviation somewhat to be expected from that compensation, each of those buckets? Total. So signing bonus for someone who has about five years-ish of software engineering, signing bonus would range anywhere from about $25,000 to $75,000 cash up front, which is crazy. Okay. Salary ranges from about $150,000 to $200,000, depending on what type of experience

you have. The bonus percentage stays the same for most employees, unless you're in sales. Equity, this is where it ranges significantly, but this ranges anywhere from about $200 to,000, three, four hundred K a year. So all in in your first year, you're looking at $400,000 when you have about five years of experience. And that's crazy.

Software engineering, guys, if you're lost and you think you have some passion and skill set behind it, clearly it could be lucrative. That is, wow, that is, that's unbelievable. That's good. And when you went to school, did you go, because you went to Bafson, did you go to study as a software engineer?

So Bapson, I studied business there. And so I actually got to Google. Exactly. Got it. Okay. That makes perfect sense. Very cool. Well, that is, that's awesome.

One thing we already talked about was LinkedIn. And so if you don't have these relationships and you're starting to hear dollar signs and music to your ears out there and you're like, whoa, how do I get to someone inside that network to actually help me with referrals? I want to talk about LinkedIn because you guys have done this unbelievably. Your growth in LinkedIn, hundreds of thousands of followers. and in such a short, short period of time. What are some tips and tricks that you guys utilized to grow at the rate you did

that someone listening might be able to utilize to apply to either their growth on LinkedIn or just getting in front of the people that they're trying to get their attention? Oh, man. So if you're trying to grow on LinkedIn and, Jason, I say this with all my heart, I believe LinkedIn is one of the most underrated platforms that exist there today. We see people like Mr. B's who are propping the best. platform, and I believe that's just going to be the start. The next wave of current and new influences you want to pop off on the platform. So for those people who want to create content,

today is the day to start. So the way that we've grown on LinkedIn has really been around two pieces, two main areas. One is we were extremely comfortable sharing a lot of the failures and rejections and the hardships that we had to overcome as job seekers. And most importantly, we shared our learnings, what we learned, but most importantly, our actions and what we take as these hardships came up, what we learned, and now what we recommend other people do if they were to run into those types of situations. And because I think when you think about the typical LinkedIn post, you think about people who are saying, hey, I'm happy to announce. I cannot believe to announce. That's every post. Every post.

A new job. I hate this job. I am humbled to announce. It's every post, right? And so when you see someone who's saying, hey, listen, I actually got, when I was in college, I'd applied to over 500 jobs,

gotten over 400-8-year rejections. You're like, whoa, that's a little different. So I think that's one of the things that we we step to is our value and our authenticity of saying, hey, listen, we hear you job seekers. These are the pains I felt, and I want to share them with you because I know you're feeling them too. And the second thing,

thing and the most important thing is consistency. I think one of the things that we realized is that I think it took me about a year to get to 10,000 followers and then another year for me to get to 200,000 followers. So the amount of the ramp was just insane. So consistency I think beats anything else every any day. Amazing. Let's talk about this a little bit. So we have had, oh man, we have had CEOs of different agencies come on. We've had huge TikTok. people come on and huge Instagram. They've talked about the monetization. I think we had Lewis House who really tapped into LinkedIn at a young age and is done well with it. But how has one salting and specifically you leverage this growth as a means to continue to build your business

and actually monetize? Are you doing it through the companies that you own or are you doing it through even like LinkedIn ads and stuff like that? Yeah, really great question. So we monetize LinkedIn on three ways. One is to drive user acquisition for our business. So one-sulting offers one-on-one coaching services with hiring managers, recruiters, and professionals. So we advertise through our content. Second thing is we do brand partnerships. So companies like Coursera, Udacity, Glass Store,

we've partnered with every single one of them and have promoted them through LinkedIn. And the last thing is very surprisingly is that as a result of us being so consistent on LinkedIn, the LinkedIn team provides an extreme amount of opportunities For example, if you don't have the LinkedIn app downloaded on your phone today, if you scroll on TikTok or YouTube, you might see my face or Jonathan's face because they hired us to create a lot of the assets that they're using to run an ads behind.

So we've almost become pseudo-token poster child of LinkedIn that weird ways. That is really cool. It's amazing when you can bring value to an app like that, what they'll do in return. But the thing is, I think everyone traditionally goes through your. Instagram, you know, your TikTok, maybe even your Twitter. And they just have such a huge volume of influencers that I think if you're in that LinkedIn space and you can carve something out, you guys have heard it. Just a couple years, you guys have created this business. And tell me a little bit more about Wonsalting. Because I said you guys have, you guys have these live

events where people will come. I know you give free content and resume templates. You guys do a ton of like the free advice. So tell me about what no one's ever heard of you guys, what you do for free and then what you can do and pay to outside of the services that you just offer online for free? So in terms of what we offer for free, everything that we know as

job search experts, we share out there in the world. If someone had gone through every single one of my LinkedIn posts, my business partner, Jonathan Javier's LinkedIn post, TikTok, Instagram, I'm pretty sure they can recreate one's open. And I put that out there

because at the end of the day, we don't we don't we don't sell ourselves hey we have this one magic pill and you take this magic pill boom you're his right unfortunately the job process doesn't work that way and so one of the things I think we do

from what we offer for free is tangible very quick things that you can try in your job position the reason why we have such a variety of different recommendations is because we realize that there is no one size they all so because of that we

post thousands of ways to think about resume thousands of ways to be thinking about interview prep because just because one wave may not resonate with you

we're hoping that the other 999 will and so that's what we offer for free now in terms of if you're saying listen I love the principles that you guys teach

I love what you guys have said but I don't have enough time in the day to go through all your content and redo my resume or prepare for an interview I want you guys to do that for me

that's exactly what we do. So we offer, we hire and train a team of current recruiters, hiring managers, and professionals who are extremely excited by the job process, all of whom who come from non-traditional backgrounds, those are the people who work with you on every single step of the process of the job search. That is fantastic.

It's really cool what you guys are doing. Tell me a little bit about what the plan is. So I saw on Forbes, so you got the impressive distinction. you talked about the 30 under 30 in education. And according to Forbes, and you can never trust anything out there on the website, but they say you guys are approaching about a million bucks in revenue and that your goal is to raise $5 million and build out product and development teams.

So tell me, I'm curious about what's next, but I'm also curious like what today is. What's the structure at Wantsulting? Do you guys hire contractors? Do you hire employees? Like, what is the, how often are you building content, overall summary of that business model that exists today? we currently have a team of about nine full-time employees, in addition to about 15 part-time contractors that we have on our team, to sort of help us across the board, sales, email marketing,

SMS marketing, Google ads, and so on and so forth. We sort of have and hire people who are passionate about what we do, help them and place them in the functional area that we need. So in terms of what we are currently doing today, we're focusing heavily on figuring out How can we continue to improve our service engagement model such that it just becomes such a no-brainer that if you're someone who likes our principles, you've heard about us and you need helping the job search process, it is just, it would be dumb for you to not consider us as an option. That is what we're working towards today. What the future holds, Jason, is I envision a world where you don't need institutional knowledge for you to create a good resume. You don't need someone to coach you through what a good interview should look like. And you should be able to have customized feedback at the right time for the job that you're interviewing,

not generic feedback that you might find through reading an article. So we're building products and we're actually starting to do our alpha launch this week, actually, of our V0.1 of our product. Wow, that is awesome. If you ever put a focus group together, need anyone to check it out, you let me know. I would love to do that. So that, yeah, I think that is so great. One of the things we talk about in trading secrets a lot is all about we're trying to break the stigma of money. We talk about like there aren't too many places you can go today to really understand what people are paid and what you shouldn't be compensated for the value are in the industry that you're in. Have you, through all your research in time at Wonsolting, have you seen a resource that you have really, really, really found to be solid as it relates to understanding

what people should be getting paid if they are lost within that conversation. Number one resource that we found for people who are interested in breaking into tech is a website called levels.f-y-I. And the reason why is because when you go on other sites like Glassdoor, D, LinkedIn.com slash salary,

and you type in software engineer. You're going to get people who are entry-level software engineers who are 15 years into their career software engineers all lumped under one category. So when you look at the income bands, it goes from 100,000 to 600,000. And you're thinking yourself, that's not helpful to me at all. What level.f why I does, it allows you to filter by level, by location, and by job title. So you're able to identify for an analyst role in New York City at a company size like Facebook.

look, I should be getting paid $110,000 all in. That, to me, is one of the best resources I found. Interesting. What's your overall take on relatively available hiring in the tech space? Do you think we'll see it change? If you had the magic globe in front of you making the prediction, what's your prediction as it relates to tech hiring in the tech industry? It's only going to accelerate in the future.

You know, we saw that the stock market take, a huge hit at the beginning of COVID. And it seemed like the media, for good reason, they were focusing all on the companies who maybe aren't doing as well. Oh my gosh, X companies laying off 11% of the workforce, Y companies laying off 6% of the workforce. But I think what people failed to realize

is that in different market conditions, there were tech companies that were booming. So for example, DoorDash was a great, and Zoom were two great example of companies who actually accelerated that hiring during a market turned out. Frushed it. I remember that.

They killed it. And so as I think about today, yeah, there's absolutely companies like Instacart that got their valuation slash 30%. Facebook, I had read that article that they're potentially considering a hiring freeze. But I think what we'll eventually see is that there's also going to be the population of companies that are also going to be winners. And the more that you can identify, yeah, the market, whenever the market turned down, overall the market's down.

but at the same time, there's always going to be companies that are up and coming. Focus on those companies because they're the ones who are going to be hiring, and everyone's going to assume that hiring has stopped because they read that Facebook stop hiring. That's the competition is going to be less. I love it. All right. We're going to get into a few more general discussions here for our general listeners who might not be in tech, but could use some advice as a related to their careers, applying a resume.

So the first one, what is the biggest piece of career vice that you hear, often that you most disagree with. So it's one of those like, old adages, you got to do this, but you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's a bunch of bullshit. Give me one of them. I to as many jobs as humanly

possible. I think that is the biggest waste of time that anyone could spend their time. And now, that's not to say that you shouldn't apply the job. It's just that you shouldn't spend all your time for your jobs. Okay, that is a good one. Be very targeted, have a thoughtful approach.

I always say people are like, I need to prepare for the interview. And I'm thinking to myself, if you're trying to prepare for the interview by the time you landed the interview, what were you doing? Exactly. I actually looked at the company, et cetera, right? Reverse engineer. I like it. All right, what is the biggest resume mistake that you have seen on all the resumes you must have seen at this point? Not enough numbers.

I always see people right. Launch an event. But they never talk about how many events, how many people? How long did you plan the event? Who did you plan that? with. How many people did you plan it with? Numbers. One of the things we say at Google is if you can't measure it, how do we know

you did it? I love that. You can't measure it. And that is my biggest frustration, a lot of the larger corporate gigs are that a lot of promotion is correlated to bureaucracy. That's right.

One of the ways that you can be bureaucracy is numbers, because numbers don't lie, and if performance is measurable, proof is in the pudding as it. Exactly right. All right. Now let's talk about interviews. So a lot of questions we get are the following. I'm going to give you two interview questions and you are going to tell me your advice. The first one, when ending an interview, are there some best practices or questions one can do or ask to finish it off with a bang? Any thoughts on that? The number one question I'd love to ask is if there's one, what is one lesson that you've learned in your current role? that you haven't learned anywhere else in your career. These are the types of questions where someone will go,

they'll lean back in their chair across their arms and look up. That is so well said. And the reason why I love those questions is because that shows the amount of thoughtfulness that you're able to bring in a very, very low-key way. The questions I do not like are the ones who are saying, so what kind of projects are we going to work on? You should already have known them at that point through your research. So those are the kind of question that I really recommend.

I love that. I think that when I think about people that I interview, I don't want to be annoyed with questions at the end that you're asking just because you think you're supposed to ask. I want to be challenged inspired or intrigued. But if you're just like asking me like dumb questions, I feel annoyed, right? So that's good advice. Again, we are aligned.

All right. Now, how about this one? The old question like, you know, it goes back in the, the books. They've been asking it for 30 years, but it's like, what's your biggest weakness question? And still in 2022, so many people struggle with how to answer that. Any thoughts on that question or any of those standard questions when interviewing? The best answer I found have been, to be honest, and try not to make it a, you know, I'm too much of a hard worker. I don't know when to stop. Sort of subtly flexing your hard work and almost disguised.

a good skill as bad. I think there's some level of humility that people want to see when they hire you just to say, hey, listen, can you admit when you messed up? Can you identify the areas where you're not as good so that maybe we can teach you and coach you or maybe hire someone else to cover that thought for you? And to me, that's what the core principle is getting at. Like, that's what that question is trying to get at. And so be honest and say, hey, listen, my biggest development for area is analytics, XYZ, but it's important for you to end it with. Here's what I'm doing to develop that. Good stuff. All right. We've talked interviewing. We have talked resumes. We've talked getting

noticed. We've talked about the money behind some of these tech jobs. The one area I think we haven't talked a little bit about is specific to someone who says, you know what, Jason? I love that one saltings built out their LinkedIn. I have no interest in taking my LinkedIn and trying to monetize it for paid ads. But I do just want some general advice as to what I might be missing on my LinkedIn, that I could go at the end of this episode right now and change. With all the resumes you've seen, you've already talked about gaps, how about LinkedIn profiles? Where are we missing things on our LinkedIn profiles that someone listening right now could be like, that's a takeaway, I'm going to go change it right now.

Most people mess up their titles. And what titles are are what's shown right underneath their name. Most people I see analytics professional, product management expert, marketing guru, all on the same line. To me, that is your elevator pitch. What is that one thing that you want someone looking at profiles to look like? Whether you're an entrepreneur and you say, listen, I can help you get leads faster and better than anyone else. Or whether you're maybe looking for a marketing role.

Listen, I am a digital market focused on user acquisition on channels like TikTok. It's extremely important for you to be precise and specific about the kind of skills that you have rather than trying to cast a wide net in hopes that someone's going to say, hey, wait, product management, awesome, let me click on that profile because people want to hire specialists generally and not sort of a jackball trade.

That's a great advice. I mean, one of the things that when I worked in a strategy role at the bank at their headquarters, and the name they gave us, we were a strategic initiative development manager. And I'm thinking to myself, if I put that on my LinkedIn or my resume, who the fuck is going to know what a strategic?

What the hell does that mean? So I think there are so many titles out there that companies provide. But to your point, if there's a recruiter or headhunter or someone looking at your profile, how are they going to know exactly what you do and what your brand is? And that also comes to branding and positioning. And I just mentioned recruiters and headhunters. And you've already talked about the fact you guys work with them. So I did want to make sure we touch on this.

The overall idea of a recruiter. or a headhunter, if someone has never worked with one before, what are things, one, you're hearing from them and two, someone should think about if they do want to position themselves with someone else other than applying through a portal? So if you're trying to go beyond clicking the applied button online, here's what you should be doing. The number one thing that we hear from recruiting and hiring teams are that I have people reaching out to me, but they're reaching out to me for a role that's the number not even relevant to what I'm recruiting for or that's even online team.

People will read Recruiter at Google and go, oh, my God, they must be recruited for everything. And that is probably one of the biggest pet peeves of what we've seen through our research. And so that's why we always talk about, Jason, you talk about what being hyper-targeted with your reach-outs. Don't reach out to every recruiter at Google. We'll reach out to the right recruiter at Google, whether you're trying to be a software engineer, analyst, or anything else in between. Got it. And if someone that says, like, I don't even like, where do I even start? Like, how do I find a recruiter? Where would you say, you know, people can just start even trying to find a targeted recruiter or headhunter?

Where do you go? Easiest place, LinkedIn.com, hit the search bar, type technical recruiter at Google and then start playing around with the filters. Filters are one of the most powerful pools, extremely intuitive views. The closer that you can get to, the right recruiter and the right search filters, the easier your life will be. Because if you play around with the search filters than up, you're going to have a list of 35 software engineering recruiter that you'll find that you can just reach out and reach out to

one click, one message at a time. And if you do that, one, I guarantee you, 90% of people do not do this. And the second thing is that if you do this, this is going to immediately allow you to almost skip the application process, skip going through the ATS, the sorcerers, and people looking to your resumes, rather just jump straight into the phone screen interview. I love it. That is brilliant advice.

Guys, there are so many takeaways in this interview that you can go apply to your LinkedIn profile, to your search, to your resume, to your online profile, just from this conversation. This has been one heck of a discussion and one I greatly appreciate for you coming on and having with us. The last thing I've got to ask you before we get your trading secret is, is there, as there been any thought from your end as to you have all these people like lost within their careers. And then you have all these recruiters and headhunters that you work with.

Is there any type of business model within one salting to actually place some of these people into jobs or thought process about that? You know, Jason, that's something that we ask ourselves every day. But our heart has always been in the interests of the job seekers. And so we don't want to jeopardize some of our core principles there, where we might start foregoing some of them by partnering with a new recruiting firms. And so we have just opened up conversations with a couple recruiting firms and recruiting teams and trying to see how can we make sure we are still advocating for the job seeker, making sure it's a fair and equitable process for them. Today, we don't have anything, but hope in the future we're working towards that.

There you go. That is awesome. That's what one day, one day, it's going to be. the one stop shop. You go to insulting for any career needs. They're going to have your answer. All right, Jerry, you got to leave us with one trading secret as every guest does, something that someone can't find in a textbook, learn in a classroom or Google as it relates to either career management or financial management or something as it relates to money and career advancement. What can you leave us with Jerry? A number one career advancement, job search tool, job search tip that I've learned that I wish everyone can implement

is not to self-reject. Oftentimes we work with people in our audience will hear people saying, listen, I don't think I'm good enough. I'm going to apply three years from that when I'm ready. And had I taken that approach, my career would have been so much further behind where I

wanted it to be today. I had applied to Google on a whim because I say, you know what, I'm already here, going to apply the next five minutes, whatever, and it turned out to be the best five-minute investment I've ever made in my life. So for those people who are questioning, should I apply for this rule? Should I go up for promotion?

Should I ask my manager for a race? Ask yourself, you might be asking yourself, well, what's the worst case scenario? But I often challenge people and ask you to think about the opposite. Well, what's the best case scenario of what happens if you do that? So don't self-reject, try it. And I hope and I know that if you start trying and putting yourself out there, you're going to achieve career height that you've never seen before. That is great advice from Jerry Lee.

I think that's one of the big things too is the process is meant for rejection, right? They can't possibly have 100% approval rating for everyone that goes through this process. Self-rejection is then probably the result of the whole system having. I mean, the algorithm, they can't take every application. So I love that advice. It's great advice. It is really, really cool to see your restart story. where you were and where you are today, especially as you talked about just your family and

everything from where you were and all the stuff that you got going on. So, Jerry, thank you so much for coming on. You guys ever do a live event. You need someone like me to come. You let me know. I would love to show up, fire some of these people up. But where can people find you, Jerry, where can they find OneSulting and everything you guys got going? Onsulting.com. Our social media is there. Our free resources there are services and everything else in between Wandsolting.com. You'll find us there. That's a beautiful place to start. And I will tell you, I follow you guys on TikTok.

It is a great follow. Go follow them, guys. Give them a shout. Reach out to Jerry if you got any questions. And I'm sure between him or wine salting, they'll be able to find your answers. So, Jerry, thank you so much for joining us on this episode.

I appreciate you coming on. Jason, thank you so much for having me. It's an actual pleasure. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.