Trading Secrets - 191. Doug Ellin: 20th anniversary of Entourage, breaking into the TV & movie industry, the collaboration process, and all the $$$ behind it!

Episode Date: August 12, 2024

This week, Jason is joined by Emmy nominated director, producer, screenwriter, and podcast host, Doug Ellin! Doug is most well known for creating the hit HBO series Entourage in which he held roles as executive producer and director. Between 2004 and 2011, the show amassed 96 episodes while collecting 26 Emmy nominations and six Emmy winners, and  eventually adapting his own movie screenplay based around the characters and plot of the show. Since the show’s end in 2011, Doug has continued to feed off the high level of interest and success of the show by creating a podcast called “Victory the Podcast” and his new TV show “Ramble On.” Doug gives insight to how he went to school law before switching gears to do standup comedy, impact of his parents support, how making one short film launched his career, the shocking amount of projects that lose money, how the short film lead to his first rewriting and directing job with Phat Beach, how Entourage revived his career after a major film flop, and how the money breaks down after landing the show. Doug also reveals how he almost went back to become a lawyer, the stresses of landing a show at Max and hoping it sticks, the money behind the show, why he didn’t want to do the Entourage movie, and how his new show “Ramble On” is different from Entourage. Who funded his first short film? When was the first time he felt like Entourage was a success?  Doug reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!  Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest: Doug Ellin Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Trading Secrets Steals & Deals! BetterHelp: If you’re thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It’s entirely online. Designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Never skip therapy day, with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/tradingsecrets today to get 10% off your first month. ZBiotics Pre-Alcohol: Vacations, weddings, birthdays, and reunions, there’s so much going on! Get the most out of your summer plans by stocking up on Pre-Alcohol now. Go to zbiotics.com/TRADINGSECRETS to get 15% off your first order when you use TRADINGSECRETS at checkout. Pre-Alcohol is backed with 100% money back guarantee so if you’re unsatisfied for any reason, they’ll refund your money, no questions asked. Thank you ZBiotics for sponsoring this episode and our good times.

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tardick, and welcome to the pre-market trading segment where I'm going to tell you a little bit about our guest, an update from the market and something for my personal life before we ring in the bell. Now, this episode, do you guys remember Entourage, one of the best, TV shows in the history of TV shows from a performance perspective, nationally, internationally, and of course, on HBO. If you've never seen the show, no worries.

You're going to hear from someone that was in law school. Mom and dad said, you got to go, ended up dropping out, practicing and then pursuing stand-up comedy, and then goes on to write one of the best TV shows in the entire history of TV shows. you're going to hear about what it was like for him to pitch to HBO executives. How many times they told him to go back to the chalkboard. I got to warn you, there's a story in here that's definitely R-rated of what Doug Ellen, the writer and creator of Entourage had to do to get his mind right.

He is funny. He has got an unbelievable, imaginative, creative type of brain, and you're going to learn so much about pursuing your passions. and just the behind the scenes of TV. And you'll hear about some stories of his good friend David Schwimmer. We all know Ross from Friends. So just a lot of action here. Some of the numbers we're going to get into regarding the show,

but we do talk about Entourage the Movie, and I have these numbers in front of me. 2015, it came out. Domestic box office, they did $32 million. International box office, $14 million. Worldwide total, $46 million. They did estimated 1.6 in DVD. sales and 1.7 million in Blu-ray sales. So domestically, from a video perspective,

3.3 million. And yes, these were the days DVDs and Blu-Rays. Oh, my God, Blu-Rays. Remember those? We're around. Now, you're going to hear they were disappointed with some of these results. And we'll talk all about that. But if you adjust for inflation in like you're looking at today, domestically, they did around $41 million. That's just the movie. So wait until you hear more about the TV show. And stay tuned to the recap because David and I really get into the weeds on all things entourage. Now, an update from this market, people's debt in United States is off the charts right now. Total household debt at the end of Q2 2024, $17.8 trillion. This is a record in absolute terms, but not as far as inflation

adjusted basis. The change in the last quarter, a $5 billion increase. The average debt per household, $148,266 in total debt to deposit ratio and total debt to asset ratio is over 20% below historical average. So what this is telling us, this is a wallet hub study that in general, our debt to our assets are up and our debt in general in United States is up. Debt can be good or bad. If debt is connected to depreciating assets, it's bad, appreciating assets, it's good. We have to know bad debt must be taken care of, and you have to do your due diligence before you do take out debt to make sure that you can service the debt with your current cash flow.

Update for my personal life, what a weekend. We had an unbelievable time in the Hamptons, did a campaign at Bouncemontock with Velveeta cheese. That was so much fun. We then went to the Patron House, saw a ton of people that, you know, I mean, this is, my mind's running right now, but we went to a recording of Summerhouse. So we saw all the cast of Summer House, saw Joey and Kelsey at the Patron House, was with Alex, John, Kat, Evan, and Betsy. Just had, honestly, just had so much fun. I feel like no matter where you are, yeah, Hamptons are cool and stuff, but it's all about the people you're with.

And we all together just had the time of our lives. This week, I'll be in New York City all week doing some pie. I'm really excited. We got Ryan Surhant coming back on and actually my brother's going to come on the podcast. So it's the first time I've had a family member on the podcast and the business behind his Broadway marketing firm and so much more. And yes, we will get into the weeds on just our life growing up. So if you have questions that you want me to ask my brother, please go to Apple or Spotify right now. Give us five stars and put your question in the review. Now, enough of me, enough of the Hamptons, enough of the market and debt. Let's get in to the

podcast, the main episode with the one and only, Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today, I am joined by Emmy nominated director, producer, screenwriter, and podcast host, Doug Ellen. Doug is most well known for creating the hit HBO series Entourage, ever heard of it, in which he held roles as executive producer and director. Between 2004 and 2011, the show amassed 96 episodes while collecting 26 Emmy nominations and six Emmy winners and eventually adapting its own movie screenplay based around the characters and plot of the show, which Rob G made an appearance on. You guys know, Rob Gruncowski's been on this show. Since the show's end in 2011, Doug has continued to feed

off the high level of interest and success of the show by creating a podcast called Victory the podcast. Go check it out right now, co-hosted with Kevin Connolly, Kevin Dillon, giving insights of the brain trust of the show's success over the years. In addition to the podcast, Doug has spun off to a new upcoming show titled Rumble on TV. This is a show starting some of Entourage's former cast members. We're going to get into all the ins and outs of one of Hollywood's most intriguing screenwriters on how he's been able to capitalize off a major success in entertainment and continue his career in writing new TV shows. Doug, thank you so much for being here on Trading Secrets.

Thanks for having me. And actually, I did win one Emmy, which is a little known thing. And they didn't even show it. So when people come to my house and they see it, they go, what is this? And they think it's fake, but it was real. I went for a doc on it. I did on the Knicks. Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, it was Bradford before, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, ESPN 30 for 30. I remember that your, and we looked into this year. I mean, I could have done your intro for the whole podcast. Your resume is insane. I mean, it's all right.

It's all right. All right. Let's get into just kind of the career direction. I think everyone, when they hear about someone that's in a career such as yours and has done what you've done, they're just intrigued. You know, people don't want to be an accountant. It's a little boring to be a teacher at times, but they hear about your career and they just want to know everything.

So you started off right as a comic. And then you wrote two independent movies. Before you even got on this, did you go to school? Did you have to go to film school? How do you prepare to even get into this? So it's interesting you say. My dad was an accountant and a lawyer. And I went to Tulane and graduated 90.

And in 90, it's like a different world. There's no internet and there's no anything. So the film business is some imaginary thing that's in Hollywood that you don't have any idea how to get into. So I was going to law school. And about a week before I graduated, I said, there's no way I can do this. And I told my parents, I was moving to L.A. to do stand-up comedy. which you know you're calling dad loved that you could not even imagine their reactions for as well my dad said i didn't even know you were funny it was his first comment but i just i literally came out here i knew

no one except for my wife to be who i'd met on the phone and i came to l.a and i moved into her parents house for three months and that's what i started and i didn't know a single person out here got so then how do you get the skill set to start writing independent movies and start writing like this where that's the beauty of this you don't need any skills you know that always works out here i mean it pretty much is you know i mean the thing is obviously to me this business is talent and work ethic those are the two things you need if you don't have any talent and a lot of people go this guy doesn't have talent even though he made it most people who make it have a talent you know they may not be your favorite they may not be this but what you really need is the work

ethic and the perseverance and i came out here started doing stand up it i took two things i did I took a screenwriting class at UCLA Extension, which was like a night class where nobody had any experience in the business. And then I took a class at the improv, which was like a stand-up class. Again, people from all walks of life could walk in and you'd do a couple of months and then they'd put you up at the improv. You'd get on a stage. And I actually, my first time ever doing stand-up, I don't know who Mario Joyner is, but he's a pretty successful comedian. And when I was 21, I worked for three months in this class, get ready to get on this stage. And right before I get on, the owner goes and before this next amateur gets on, we have a special guest coming in, Mario Joyner,

who is a real successful comedian. He does an hour, puts the pressure on. And I was, and I have it on tape, but I was introduced as I feel bad for this next amateur to follow that. And that was my intro into all this. That's awesome. And it all worked out. But I also think about so many careers have a blueprint. They have a systematic way of getting to where you have to go. Obviously, it more of an art than a science for you. We talk money on this podcast. I know you had two independent movies, which I want to talk about. One, you got 100K4, one with David Schwimmer. You got one and a half million bucks. Before we even get into that, how much money are you making at some of the jobs that you're taking on to start building this profile within the space that you're trying to really launch it?

I mean, obviously, you know, my parents going, which they said, we'll give you a year. And that wasn't a year with like here's you know a couple of million bucks they gave me i think 1500 a month they said you got a year to figure it out and then that's it and i got very lucky i went to that ucla class yeah and what it was was as i said you need talent and most of the kids in that class did not have any and the first day the teachers said next week come in and pitch me a movie you want to make and the week after all the kids or people they weren't even some kids some are you know older adults, they all pitched ideas, and they were so awful that I went back to the job that I did have, which was I was the head of the mailroom at New Line Cinema. I would think I probably was making

four or five hundred bucks a week. I was the head, by the way. So I was the, I was running. It always starts in a mailroom. You know what it was done in Holland always starts in the real. It really does, although times I think are changing now, but that was like it was a big gig that I got. And I actually talked my way into the head job, which was, you know, caused a lot of controversy. in the mailroom who is this guy why is he getting a head job so i got to tell people you know deliver that envelope first and that one second that was the big key but actually interestingly enough i mean one of the other kids in the mailroom was this guy tommy o'haver who ended up having a successful career he made some sundance films and he's directed some movies so you know that a lot of people do start in that way

but after these kids all pitched their movie idea i said you know what i got to do i got to make a uh short film and honestly that short film led to everything that i've ever done so i beg borrowed and stole to get the money to make this and as i said i was in the mailroom in new line i did a stand-up show to raise money handed out flyers to everyone at new line and i don't even know why he came but mike deluca who's now oscar winning producer and i think he's i think he's head of warner brothers uh films now he came to the show and he wrote me a check for ten thousand dollars for this short film and i went out and got people, David Schwimmer, pre-friends, Ernie Hudson from Ghostbusters and Oz, Johnny Silverman from Weekend and Burnies and a million other things. And they were all people I just met through people

around town. And I made this little short film that took, which would take, by the way, I could make this film on an iPhone in an hour today. Probably took six months to get it all shot, edited, and done. And somebody saw it and gave it to people at Showtime and they bought it and put it on showtime when they used to show some short films on it got me my first agent got me into the american film institute which i went to for a year and that kind of let everything so i always tell everybody just go make something you know don't wait go figure it out and go make it so yeah so we talk a lot about like think about like a real estate transaction i want to buy a commercial property i can show you the financials i can show you my deck you'll know how much equity you get i have an idea of

return i can show a lot of things in a business venture like this it's a complete crap shoot yeah Like, what are you actually doing to get people on board and how are you selling? It's worse than a crapshoot. I mean, to be honest with you, if you don't have bona fide stars and whatever you're doing, you're asking for favors and you're asking people to believe in you. And you're also asking because, as you know, being from business world, so many people want to enter the Hollywood business. Of course.

So they're willing to go, you know what? Sure. I'm willing to lose money if I have a good experience. And you have to convince people that this is going to lead to a lot of the things that, you'll do in the future, possibly with them. I was very lucky that everybody got their money back on this little short film. Rarely, I would say,

can you ever look somebody in the face and go, hey, give me this money and I'm going to give you a 10x. It just doesn't happen almost ever. Give me the estimated odds of success. You write a show, you want to fundraise for it, you want to bring it to life. What do you think the likelihood of it being a success is based on everything you've seen percentage-wise?

Again, I, you have to have, that talent and ability, whatever, the movies I did at first. Sure. I obviously had something that ended up selling both the independent films I've had, but I would say one in a million. What? I mean, the amount of people that I know who go out and make films and lose their money, it's almost everybody I know.

So I was very fortunate. I sold that first short film I did. I sold two independent features that I did. But I have a pilot right now with bona fide TV stars in it. And, you know, we have to go sell it. And it's no guarantee. Now, the difference is we're trying to go, hey, we made a pilot, now give us money to make, you know, a hundred more of these things.

So obviously, we're asking for a big financial investment. Whereas an independent film, easier to sell, still incredibly hard, you know, you have to make something either sellable or good, you know. Yeah. And that pilot that you're doing right now, Ramblon, it's a show that focuses on established stars looking for career reinvention, right? And that's a lot of the things that we talk about, restarts, rebranding, and everything like that. So we're going to get to ramble on.

But some of the thing that you said really stuck out to me when he said, I sold these films. I know you sold one for 100K that ended up, I think on Showtime, the one with David Schwimmer, which is moving, kissing a fool. That was for I heard one and a half million with Universal. When you sell them for that dollar amounts, how much of that money ends up in your pocket? So Fat Beach, which was the first one, which is, I mean, it's a crazy story. I just got out of film school. I made a short film. A producer saw it, which it's hard to picture, but in 1994, I think, when we started this,

the word P-H-A-T was not a common word in the vernacular. And a producer called me up. He saw my short film, and he said, I want you to direct this movie, Fat Beach. And I was like, Fat Bitch, what is it? And he's like, no, it's Fat Beach. And I read this script, which was, I mean, beyond awful. but I was being offered $11,000 to rewrite and direct this movie, $11,000. And we went and made, in six days, we shot this film with absolute chaos, mayhem,

and the producer ran out of money. And about nine months later, I showed it to a friend of mine, not the film, some dailies and stuff, he's like, we could sell this thing. I was like, okay. And he went and live entertainment at the time, which I forget who. they became, but who released a lot of movies. They saw it. They gave us whatever number they gave us to finish this movie. And it wasn't released on Showtime. That movie came out on, I think, 400 screens and played worldwide, which was crazy because the budget of the movie was less

than $200,000. So it's hard to find a movie that got that kind of release. And that movie's played on cable for the last 25 years. I mean, Complex did a 25-year retrospective on this movie, which is nuts. And allegedly, it's grossed about $11 million. What did I get paid? Nothing after that. Zero. You got the $11,000. I got the $11,000 and then some residuals. Yeah. What is the likelihood that when it gets picked up and when a movie is purchased, that it will be successful? We already said one in a million that you'll make it, you'll get picked up. Then they buy it. What is their risk level when they buy when a universal buys it? You know, it's hard to say, but I think it's pretty huge, you know, and I think I think that movie ultimately was successful. The choice to

release it in movie theaters, I think was a bit ambitious. I mean, there are some laughs in the movie, and I have a great cast. And, you know, Brian Hooks, who, you know, has had a great career for the last 30 years. I think that was the first thing he ever did. And Jermaine Hopkins, who was a really good actor. Coolio made a little appearance in it. And it was right when he started exploding, we got him. But the fact that they actually made money on that, I think was pretty surprising. But, you know, for me, as the filmmaker, what it was was a chance to just get on and shoot something and then show people whatever it was. You know, Darren Aronovsky was a friend of mine from AFI, who's one of the biggest directors of the world. I mean, I had him do the second

unit on that movie, you know, so he was like before he ever worked on anything, he's doing this movie like that. So, you know, that's what filmmakers have to do. And then the financial risk, they're enormous. I mean, you know, that's why people don't understand why is the studio. Why do They keep making superhero movies because they keep making money. Right. You know, it's just that simple. And all the artists, which I don't really consider myself an artist per se, and I do understand business, you know, it's a huge risk.

It's a risk to their jobs. It's a risk to their financial security of their companies. And they have to find things, whether they're right or wrong, that they believe will make money, you know. Yeah. I mean, another huge risk, right? Mom and Dad, they're giving you $1,500 a month. You got to sink or swim.

We know that you swim tremendously at the Olympic level with on. entourage, but between them giving you that $1,500 a month, and then you making it big with entourage, what was the biggest financial impact that you had received a reward from your work? I, again, it was very lucky. My parents had to support me for about a year, and I started making money. I sold, you know, my first script. So I got very lucky. What time period was, how long did that take? Less than two years. Okay, so you were up and out of pre-dam. I mean, I was financial. independent, again, not wealthy by any stretch, but I didn't need my parents money probably after 24 to 36 months out here. And I went to film school. So fortunately, they paid

for that. But that's rare. I mean, I have friends that I'm still friends with on the 35-year journey here who still don't make a lot of money. And most of the people that I started out with don't make money. Again, I've had some friends who are wildly successful. But it is a Tough racket. Was there any point before Entourage came about that you were thinking about leaving the career? A hundred percent. I mean, and by the way, I had made two movies that sold. I bought myself a million dollar house. I had a child. And suddenly after kissing a fool came out, which again is, you know, kissing a fool was an independent movie. So nobody financed it except for some independent people. We sold it to Universal Studios. Again, in my opinion, they thought it was a

home run. I did not think it should be released on 2,200 screens, which is what they did. I thought it should be like a small platform released. When that movie came out where it should have been kind of hailed as an independent miracle, because it doesn't happen. You sell this movie. So everybody made some money on it that put the money in. But then Universal spent all the money to market it. And it didn't make money in the theaters.

And I was dead. It was as if I had made a gigantic flop when the movie cost a million five. Because everything about it was kind of marketed as a studio film as opposed to a little independent movie with some, you know, we didn't really have movie stars in that movie. So I could not work. I had worked for probably eight to 10 years. And suddenly I couldn't, I was like a leper in this town. I could not get anything. And, you know, entourage was kind of a miracle. You know, I had started to a friend of mine said, I needed to get into TV. That was where all his friends who had little talent made millions of dollars. And I said, I don't know anything about TV. How do I

get into it and he told me to write a spec script of my favorite show, which it's nuts to think that that curb is still running now. But I just woke up in the morning and I wrote a curb spec. Real quick, for people that don't know, spec script is like an independent version of your favorite show. I just wrote it that nobody's ever going to, you're not going to make any money off of it. You're just showing people I know how to write. I can write these characters or whatever. So I sent it to my manager, who was my friend from college, who was an executive producer on kissing a fool who had completely forgot. and I'm even in the business.

And I sent him the script. He's like, oh, my God, this is hilarious. He goes, you know, Mark Wahlberg and I were talking about doing a show about his life. You know, you should write it. And again, Mark and Steve Levinson hadn't made, hadn't done anything in TV either. But I'm like, all right. And we sat down for lunch and they told me the idea for entourage, which was a guy in his entourage, which I despised the idea because it's not how I live or ever would live.

and I remember going, you know, which was similar to how kissing a fool happened because Steve Levinson found me kissing a fool, which, you know, you talk about a way a guy does his business, but they offered Mark Wahlberg kissing a fool before I was involved in it. And his manager, Steve said, the only way Mark will do it is if Doug Ellen writes and directs it, which was complete bullshit because Mark was never going to do it with me writing it directed. He was never going to do it, period. But they're like, oh, okay. So they hired me.

And then when we rewrote it, I said, you know what, instead of Mark, how about David Schwimmer, who was one of my best friends. So we made that movie, but that's how I got the job. But when entourage happened, we sat at this restaurant, and they told me the same thing I said about kissing a fool when I read that script. And I was unemployed. I said, this is horrible.

I'm not doing this. And I had nothing else to do it. It's palsy when you're unemployed. It's more stupid than balzy, because I will tell you that when you get offered to make movies, take it. Take it. But, you know, my manager, Steve, at the time was like,

you'll figure it out. I remember those were you'll figure it out. So I figured it out. We made the movie. same thing happened with the entourage. I'm like, this is an awful idea. I hate it. He's like, you'll figure it out. And then I went home and I thought about how can I make it something that I'm interested in? And that's where it came from. And so what type of spin did you put on it to make it something that you're interested in? Well, two things. Mark's crew was not

family. They were not 40 years. He had people that he had, you know, kind of taken on as his Hollywood journey. So I'm like, if these are best friends since they're kids, you know, and they're like my friends, you know, more than Mark's friends. And they're like the guys that I grew up with who all, which, you know, it turns out, because, you know, when LeBron James did the show, he said to me, he goes, this is my E, this is my turtle, and this is my drama. And if you remember 10 years ago, maybe 15, Rich Paul and Maverick Carter, everyone thought it was a joke. What is LeBron doing having these guys run his life? As it turns out, they're all really good, you know, and they all actually helped his life. So I kind of looked at it like that way before that is how can each of them

have a useful purpose and how can they really have some worth behind them that isn't just like guys who just hang on and take things from them so that that's what i brought to me when you decide to take it on at any point was there any convincing mark walberg to actually be in the show no absolutely not under no yeah and again you know mark was a movie star but not quite like he is today and also you didn't do tv back then i mean there's many references on entourage to a movie start doing TV is like the end of their career. So it's very different than in 2001 that it is now. But no, that wasn't even a thought. Not even a thought. Okay. So tell me a little bit about the process, though. So you decide to take on the role. Do you actually write the full season out,

like one full season? You have to today, not then, thank God. Because I, again, had no idea what I was doing. And you have to have luck and you have to have perseverance, as I said before. That meeting to sell entourage, which if you look back to 2001, HBO is like the king. There's no Amazon. There's no Netflix. There's nowhere. And this is not a network show. So it wasn't going to NBC. So it was basically going to HBO. They either say yes or no. And they have, I think, three shows a year that they put on or something like that. It's got to be impossible. So the thought of going in there was like, all right. And we walked in there, which the R.E character that Jeremy Piven plays on the show. I had never met him. I had never heard of him. I had never seen him, but he represented

Mark Wahlberg. So when we went into that meeting, and I had actually written in my treatment, which is like a stack of papers about what the show is going to be, I had Jeremy Piven playing my agent, a guy named Jeff Jacobs at CAA, and Ari walked into this meeting and took over, and I honestly, I didn't say one word. He walked in and he said it's, which I have talked about this on my podcast before, but he said it's about Mark Wahlberg and his friends. This guy's going to write it. If it sucks, we'll fire him and someone will rewrite it. That's literally me while I was sitting there with all these papers ready to talk. Was he in character doing this too? He's, he is a character. Was he like he was he in his character of Ari? I mean, he's, he is,

you know, he's even more interesting than the fake Ari on the show. And again, HBO was like when we walked in, Levinson and I, Mark wasn't there. Like HBO was like this palace that you're like, I can't believe we're even meeting here. I can't believe we're in here. And R. he walked in. He's like, tell them I got 10 minutes or I'm getting the fuck out of here. And I'm like, holy shit. And we walked out and I got in the car and with Steve, we were in the same car and already called. He's like, they bought it. So I'm like, that's it. So what I didn't realize then, we honestly, if you remember Vanilla Sky with Tom Cruise's walking around the streets thinking he owns the world. Levin, I thought we owned the world. So now they pay me $50,000

to write a script. And for about 45 seconds, I thought, wow, we made it. We made it. We're at HBO. It's nothing. Two years later, I'm still listening to their notes. We don't like this. We like that. I'm changing the script over and over and over. Mark, it doesn't matter. It's only if this script is something they want to make. That's it. So I did it over and over and over really thinking, this is it. And when I asked them, which I really love you guys at HBO still, but I said, guys, I've been working on this. Like, you're basically paying me like minimum wage or less. Because this is two years now you're working on this. Two years. Over and over. How many hours a week you're putting into this? Just trying to get kind. You know what? It's hard to

gauge that as a writer all day and all night. I sit in the shower and I think about it. I wake up in the morning and I think about it. And I'm also, you know, they've got the biggest shows. in the world. So they're not like spending a lot of time holding my hand. They're saying things and I'm trying to figure out what, am I a lot of cursing? Yeah, what the fuck they're saying. Trying to figure out what the fuck they're saying. And I remember, I mean, like a couple of things that happened, you know, Chris Albrecht, who I love to death, who really, I credit with this show going forward because I don't think anyone else at HBO wanted it to. But he kept saying, and not to me, because I wouldn't even get like a room with him. They would just tell me, Chris says, it's not about

funny it's about fun which sounds so obvious now yeah but we used to sit around and go is this funny or is it fun like how do we make funny fun and how do we do this and how do we do that so hours are countless and obsession of how do we win how do we get this done and at one point you know I had I hired like the head of UCLA screenwriting to like oversee and give me thoughts and I remember the day before I or it wasn't the day because you would hand these scripts in and you'd wait two months before they'd even tell you what they thought wait real quick there you hired someone you're not using that 50k to hire someone oh yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean not like enormous amounts of money but you know like a like a Tudor yeah 150 an hour whatever it was at the time just you're just

dwindled by the second here yeah well first of all I got to pay the agent that's what I'm saying to pay taxes there's nothing left nothing zero I mean and I have a child at this point and I'm and I have a million dollar house that I bought with the money when I thought I already made it five years ago. And now I'm not working at all besides this. Damn. So I'm rioting and writing and writing. And I call them up and I said, guys, something. Come on. They sent me $2,500 as a bonus. It is multi-billion dollar. HBO. So, but I kept going and kept going. And at one point, like I said, the UCLA screenwriter who I just realized I haven't spoken to in a decade and I forgot that she sent me a message about two weeks ago. Hit her up. So she's like, this is one of the best pilots I've ever

right. It's amazing. Steve Levinson loves. This is amazing. Mark, this is unbelievable. We handed an HBO, and I remember sitting on my bed. I got my baby, got my German Shepherd next to me, and love calls me, and he goes, they don't like it. Shit. And I go, what don't they like about it? And he goes, they don't like anything about it. I'm like, oh, all right. And I remember I walked to the park with my dog. I sat down. I had two movies that had played around the world, good or bad, whatever the fuck you think about them. And I don't give you shit. I made two movies that played around the world. I had made enough money to buy this fucking house that I'm going to lose. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, that's it. I'm out of this business. Like I got

I bought an L-Sat book. I'm like, and by the way, I'm 30 now around, you know, I'm like, I guess I got to be an attorney. Yeah, I guess I have to be a fucking lawyer. Like, what am I going to do? And I said, right, I'm taking one more swing at this thing. And I got a car in August and went to Palm Springs and got a hotel room. And I rewrote the whole thing. One of the things that the things that the executive said, which again, here's another difficult thing about the process. Chris is the guy who's ultimately going to say whether this show goes. But there's people under him that try to guess what Chris wants and try to convince you to write something that Chris is going to ultimately want.

So you're trying to figure it all out. And the thing that I remember that she kept saying to me is that these guys need to have their own language. They need to speak in a way that nobody else understands, which do you know what the fuck I'm saying when I say that to you? So I kept going, okay, they have their own language, whatever. And I went to the desert by myself and I wrote this script that was almost like another language that they talked to each other and they all understand each other. Do you have to get like high to think creative like this?

Like what do you do out there to start doing that? You know, God knows what I did. And I can tell you one of the saddest, lowest points of my life, being in the desert in the middle of nowhere, pre-internet by myself alone. And I said, you know what I need some fucking porn. and there's no there's no stores around here there's no fucking internet and I drove wherever it was

I found like one of those adult bookstores if you even know what that is and I go to this place and I see like some porn stars that I recognize on a box cover and I take this thing I literally drove 30 minutes and I drove back 30 minutes

to pump off for 10 seconds yeah and then you want to kill yourself like what did I just do but this was worse and I fucking put this thing in it might have even been VHI I don't remember DVD whatever the hell it was

and it was I don't know if you know what this is. Pony girls. Do you know what this is? No, I must have missed that one. They stick like a fucking tail up their ass and a bit in the girl's mouth. And they go around on the floor. Okay?

I miss that one. There's nothing sexual about it. I'm like, what the fuck is this? And I remember just sitting there going, I have hit rock bottom. I literally cannot fucking believe this is my life. But I write this script that I think is so fucking dumb. Yeah. And I give it to Lev.

he's like, this is insane. What the fuck? Hands it in. And they go, now we're getting on track. Wow. Okay, now I'm telling you that the ultimate pilot that was shot at HBO is 80% what I wrote before that. But whatever I did, whatever I did here, got them engaged enough to start going,

okay, we're moving in a direction. Okay. And then, you know, I just kept going and going and going until we got there. How long is that for start to finish? 50,000 plus you get the 2,500, so you're 52,500 until they accept it. How long is that process? I would say, I mean, I'd have to look exactly, but I would say from the time we walked into HBO, which you got to remember there's three months before that, that I'm trying to figure

out what it is, get the meeting, what it is, get the meeting, that I don't know, two years to be on set and shooting this pilot. Okay. And when HBO signs off, what exactly at this point are they buying? Are they- A pilot? Okay. So now I get another, maybe $75,000. and we're going to shoot a pilot, which will take six months.

And if it doesn't go, if they don't like it, that's it. Goodbye. And when they're advancing all this money in the contracts. Well, you're at 125 grants. You're at 125, yeah. All that's funny. Over three years sitting on an entourage. Do you still have ownership of the show or not?

Like, do they own the show once they're? Well, I have my points. You know, I have what I own, which I think I don't know, like somewhere around 15%. Okay. But it's points of nothing. It's completely worthless. It's nothing. Yeah.

And if it doesn't. go, you know, yeah, there's a world, again, there's not another network that could take it, but there's a world I can go show it to people and they go, oh, we like it, we'll hire you for something else where we can torture you for another three years. But the goal is to get on HBO. That's it. There's nothing else there. And by the way, not even that. It's to get to season five, you know, before you can really start going, okay, I made some real money now, you know? How do you get to Jeremy Piven or some of these people who have, you know, some sort of credibility in the space to shoot a pilot when budget is pretty limited or does HBO start

paying pretty good salaries at that point they didn't pay him shit they didn't pay him shit how do you sell him on it Jeremy I you know I as I said I wrote him in before we had ever started casting this thing yeah and then you know I want to get him in and and while you think he's a big name HBO didn't think he was a big name they're like you need to audition and I'm like I know how to write for this guy doesn't need to audition and Jeremy refused to audition he's like I'm not auditioning I'll meet. So I met with Jeremy and, you know, I convinced him. Now I still had to convince HBO. And thank God for the real Ari because there was another guy who read for Ari, who was very good, by the way, but not even in the same league. And they were like, he's fine. And I called Ari and I

said, Ari, I know more than anything on the planet Earth that I know how to write this guy. And this is the guy and Ari called HBO and said, this is the guy. put him in so were there were there any main characters that we saw an entourage that got put in last minute or that were not there for the pilot no okay so they were all there for but but things that that had i mean Kevin dillon who I thought stole the pilot and from the second he auditioned I was like this guy's a superstar I'm lucky that he hasn't been doing comedy HBO did not like him interesting and it was it took a few weeks where it was kind of like you know they said all right you know it's your show, do what you want, and you go, fuck, if we make this pilot and they don't like it,

that's it. It's over, you know? So they like the pilot, though. Well, they ultimately like the pilot, but again, that was a process too. We were up against, I think, was it, a link later, link later had a pilot. Okay. And they were picking up one. You got one of the biggest filmmakers in the world. And I keep getting told they're picking up one. And I'm just like, we're dead. I can't, I can't believe this. What a waste of fucking time. And one day they called up, they said, let's go. And that's when the real fun start. And then they commit, when they say let's go, that's a commitment to what?

Seven episodes. Seven episodes. What type of money they put up front for that? I mean, the budgets on our episodes, you know what? We're probably $3 million an episode probably, which is low. That's low in the industry? That's low. You know, I mean, I don't want to give the wrong numbers, but Game of Thrones is probably like

25 to 30 an episode. I mean, obviously, it's a much bigger type of, you know, special effects, our drama. But yeah, we were low. Whatever the number was, we low. The actors were getting, you know, as low as you could get for season one. I as a showrunner was getting as low as you can get for season one. And what is that, well, low, these actors, as low as you can get season one, what is that number? I have no idea what that would be.

I don't know what the actors were getting. I made, I think, about 300 grand for season one. Okay. You know, to work 24-7 on a show that was going to play all. all around the world, you know? So, which, by the way, couldn't have been more thrilled about at the time, you know? If you had to guess, would you say the actors made more and less than the 300 grand? Less. Yeah, they probably made somewhere between 25 and 35 an episode, probably. But you still have your points. Do actors or actresses, do they get? Unless they have that kind of

power, but none of them get points. Okay. And then after the first season, did you know it was going to be just an international phenomenon? No, no. I'm in the erotic Jew. I'm like, fucking every day I'm like they're canceling us I mean actually in fact you know all the DVRs started coming around that so like we would see articles the ratings were like not what sex in the city was four years earlier and I'm like oh my god so every day I was like we're getting canceled and we were shooting we were shooting in Vegas for season two and I have no like my head is down I am just like make this fucking thing right and that's it right and that's it find a little shot. And we were shooting at the hard rock at the pool. And when the guys walked out

to shoot the scene and the entire East Coast meathead contingency of people in the hard rock pool started fucking going nuts. Turtle, turtle, Vince. I was like, holy shit. So that was the first time I had any idea that anyone was even watching this show. Now, we had gotten really good reviews, which was amazing. So I don't think HBO thought this was like a review show or an Emmy worthy show. I think they thought it was like their tits and ass show, you know, which now the world has sort of changed it to like, that's what it was. But we were, you know, the New York Times called us the smartest show on TV. We got nominated for a Golden Globe that year. Our reviews were amazing all around, you know, but it was not until that Vegas thing. And even

then, I'm like, our ratings suck. And Chris called me, who again, I probably spoke to at that point of my life, maybe twice, Chris Albrecht. And he called me up. And he's like, how you doing? I'm like, you know, I'm fucking just want more people to watch it. He's like, are you fucking crazy? like you got a major hit here we'll go as long as you want to go do as many episodes as you can possibly do and i was like okay so that was that was the first time i felt some sense of security which chris ultimately ended up leaving HBO two years later which everything changes when that happens you know how do you once you have the success of season one how do you then negotiate for season two are well i went i had already become my agent stop it yeah no way i mean when that first

meeting at HBO yeah i said to lev i said I want this guy to be my agent. And I remember him going, he's like, I could be your fucking agent. I'm like, I just sold the show to HBO. It's like, so? You're going to make $50,000. He's going to make $5.

I'm like, okay. And then we get, you know, Golden Globe nomination picked up for season two. I'm like, I want already to be my agent. He's like, you're not ready. You know, he's not going to be your agent. So it wasn't until season three when it was time because I think I had a two-year deal or something

when it's time for a long-term deal. Okay. He's like, all he's ready. I go, well, what's he going to give me now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that when it becomes like a seven-figure deal? Yeah.

Okay, so that's when the big money comes in, season three. And that LSAT book is on fire now. You're not looking back at that. Pretty much. You know, I mean, again, you know, it's not going to be, I mean, I made a lot of money, but it's not going to be Seinfeld money. You're on HBO.

You're making, you know, we made 96 episodes, and it's not, even though we did syndicate, which were the real big money came in, which we never expected, but it's not syndication like. Seinfeld or friends where you make $500 million, you know. When you syndicate, because I was going to ask you, when you have 15 points of the show when you go to ABC, is that when the 15 points gets paid off once you get syndicated for

whatever value that it's purchased that? Yeah. Got it. Okay. Is it fair to make on without syndication? Is it fair to say that you made over $10 million? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. But again, you pay $5 million in taxes and I'm not trying to be like a mottious about it. I understand. Yeah. You know, and it's over years and years. Like we did, you know, we did eight seasons in a month. movie of entourage over 14 years, you know? Yeah, right. Living in L.A. too. Yeah, living in L.A. with kids. Yeah. You know, I had, you know, the Yankees star Mark DeSherriss says

on my show. He's like, you know, you know, how much putting kids through Greenwich private schools cost, you know, so you have that in L.A. too, you know, and again, I have plenty of money. I made plenty of money, but, you know, Larry David, who, you know, is my boy and I love to death. I remember season two or three, whatever it was, but we both lost Emmys to Desperate Housewives. which I still find fucking offensive. But we both lost and we like, we both marched out of the room. Or he's Golden Globes, one of the two.

And I see Larry, I'm like, what are you upset about? He goes, what are you upset about it? I go, I'm trying to fucking get Seinfeld money, you know? Honestly, and I meant it. I won't give a shit about any of these awards if I could just get that kind of money, you know?

David Schwimmer, Larry David, Mark Wahlberg, you're clearly connected with some of the best actors in the entire planet. I got to go off the script a little bit. These guys, what is it that makes them so, special. Are they just that talented? Is it their work ethic? Is it something they can do that someone can't? It's very clear. Like, when we go watch golf, whatever it is, it's very crystal clear why that person's better than that person. With these actors, what is it? I mean, obviously, much tougher thing. If you're in golf and you could, you know, shoot low, you shoot low. Sure. That's it. This is subjective.

I knew when I met, I met David Schwimmer three years before friends, he auditioned for my short film. and he did one line. I said, done, you're it, you're it. And I told everyone I knew, I said, this guy will be one of the biggest stars in the world. That's what I believe, 100%. Is it the it factors, the tone? It's an intangible, you know, talent.

It's just talent. Now, Larry, again, you need luck. I don't care how talent you are. Larry was broke in his 40s. Larry was fired off a Saturday Night Live. You know, what's Larry's break? Jerry Seinfeld says, I want this guy to write my show with me,

you know, when he's the biggest comic in the world. without Seinfeld who knows where Larry David is so you need that luck and then you need that talent and then of course you need that work ethic but there's a lot of talented people that don't make it for whatever reason you know yeah you've had all three of those things at some point for the people listening back home that haven't had any of those what type of advice would you give what you haven't had any just they haven't had the luck they haven't had the break they haven't been seen they're still struggling they're in the low of the roller coaster that you've experienced, that Larry experience.

What, like, what do you tell those people when they're just lost? It's a really hard thing because, and I've had conversations with friends of mine that ended our friendships because there's two things. You've got to have some indication, some, somebody's got to be encouraging you in some way that you're good at this. That's why, again, luck, my first short film sold, but it told me, okay, like people in this business believe I have something. So keep working. But I have friends who, you know, they've never worked and they still, you know, want to do it. And if you love it and if you're

happy that way, great. But I think it's something that you have to, you know, one of the great episodes of television ever, which I kind of, I stole a little bit on entourage. But Taxi had this episode where the, I don't know, even know if you know Taxi. No, I don't. That's tragic. Literally one of the best television shows ever. James L. Brooks, one of the, you know, who's a president's creator and Oscar winning director and genius and, you know, it's Danny DeVito and whatever. But have you boys seen taxi just to get a check here? You've heard it.

You've heard it. We've got to put that. We're so fucking horrified right now. We're putting that on our list. So, but one of the episodes is they're taxi drivers who dream of bigger things. And one of them is an actor in Hollywood. And he says he's going to give himself five years. And it's like five years to the day.

If I don't get a job, I quit and I go do something else, which every person in this town pretty much, maybe not Mark. because Walberg, Wolberg had, you know, it all just go pretty well, pretty easily. But he gave himself five years and said if I don't get something by that moment, then, you know, I'll move on with my life.

The story is good, and you should watch the episode. I won't give away the ending, even though it's 50 years old and you guys have never seen it. But, you know, you have to have some encouragement, or you just have to love it and not care about the other things in life,

like stability and security and all that stuff. But I think you asked at the beginning, what anyone could get in, into this business, which is a problem and a blessing because there's a lot of really uniquely untalented people clogging up the system that keep going and going. And there's also relentless people who are untalented that just boom, boom, boom. I mean, the amount of scripts I get from people who are not in this business at all who just think, oh, I could do it. I'm a lawyer. I'm a dentist. I'm a this. Some of that. Read my script. This is a great movie. So, you know,

I always tell everybody, if you do not love this more than anything in the world, do anything else because even in great success, which I've been fortunate enough to have a lot of, there is so much downtime and feeling like shit about yourself and rejection and debating what the fuck am I doing no matter when it happens. I mean, you know, HBO didn't pick up my show after Entourage, which I still hate their fucking guts and I still know they were wrong. And I still see the shit that they put on now. a lot of it and go, you got to be fucking kidding that they didn't, even if they didn't like it,

let my audience get a chance to see it. So, but still, I remember that day, I was in, I was in Israel, like going, God, I don't even know if I could grind this out for another 10 years. And I had this great show with Eddie Burns, Michael Imperioli, Michael Rappaport, and they called me up and told me they were passing on it. I honestly could not fucking believe it. I thought I had gotten to the point where they go, you're in. Whatever you do. Yeah. And until it, until it fails, till like we turn it on and everybody hates it, but they didn't let me do it. So I have seen every up and down in this business. And it is it is not fun. So you really got to love it. That's good, good piece of advice, especially for people back

home doing anything. That's such great advice. Two rapid fire questions I got to ask you. And then we'll wrap with entourage. It would be one, celebrities. Who has been, I'm just, you talked a little bit about some of these people are talented, untalented, but they're relentless. Who has been the best celebrity that you've had on as an actor? So whatever it is, they're an athlete, it's LeBron, but they act the best, and you're blown away by their ability. You know, I always said, it's like, I'll answer this differently every day, like, whatever comes to my mind at the moment, because we had so many great people on. Yeah.

And obviously, when they're, you know, coming in from another venue, they're nervous, they're this and that, but, you know, Tom Brady was amazing, you know, like came in and instantaneously kind of fit in. Mark DeSher again, Yankees' first basement was great. But, you know, Lamar Odom, who was our first, like, celebrity even come on because it was so hard first year. Nobody knew who we were and they didn't want to do it. But we've had a lot of really, we were very fortunate in the directors that we got from James Cameron and Scorsese and, you know, so, you know, there was no one that I found that that wasn't

good. It wasn't able to do what we needed them to do, but that was a lot of fun. Okay, you took my next question. It was going to be, who's the worst? Now, product placement. It's huge now. We run a social media agency. We are doing deals left and right all over social media. You guys had placement left, right, and zero. You weren't paid on any of that. Zero. And I honestly, like I know I credit myself with starting the celebrity tequila or liquor business. Yeah. But that was my childhood friend.

I was sitting in a jacuzzi in Nantucket over the summer and I was trying to think up a business idea for Turtle. And my friend's like, we're starting a tequila company. I'm like, I love that. So I went with that, but not a single thing from the cars, which I met the president of Maserati who credited us. He said, you made the quatraport. They happened.

Like that show made that car go. That's like my dream car because of the show. And zero dollars. Everything that was on that show was things that I liked or somebody on the show liked. I mean, I started putting Apple computers on before. Now, did we get hundreds of thousands of dollars in Apple computers for the writing stuff, for this and that? Yeah, but that's not why we did it. Everything that I did was to make it authentic to the time and place and to the products that I loved.

And I think you feel that on the show because we're not selling you anything. We're going, okay, today's in a Ferrari, today's in a Maserati, today's in this, today's in that. But, you know, some good things that would happen. I mean, like on the movie, Mercedes is like, if R.A. drives this car, you drive it for the year. I'm like, okay, done, you know, but, but I love the car. Otherwise, I went to done it. If it worked, if it didn't work for it. It's just crazy to see, like, now when you see, like, George Clune and he got

me, he goes going for a billion bucks and, like, the products that could have been spun off from that show. It could have been a much, much bigger than the show. Billions and billions of dollars. But, you know, HBO was, they. people paid so they would not look at advertising now people snuck shit in obviously in course ways and stuff but and mike melbourne who started cosomigos with with cluny is a friend of mine and you know i mean i saw him started from the get go after avion and after that happened and now mark's got one now i forgot the name of it and you know my friend who who did avion has he did

the rocks tequila he did kana mcgregor's whiskey so he's made several hundred million dollars in this avenue that didn't exist 15 years ago you know that's started with you. I love it. How about the entourage movie gross 49.3 million? How involved were you with the movie? I mean, I wrote it, directed, produced it. You did it all. I didn't do it all. I have a huge amazing staff, but I did what I do, you know. And you still get 15 points of that, same thing. It's different deals on that, you know, but, you know, I would have been very rich if the movie was very successful, but it wasn't. But really the goal with that movie, sex in the city syndicated after the show ended. Sure. It did.

terrible. Nobody watched it. And then the movie came out. And they resindicated for about four or five times. So I didn't want to do the entourage movie. And Mark convinced me, we're going to resindicate. We're going to do this. We're going to do that. So we did it. And again, I mean, the movie walked right into the Me Too movement. So the reviews were like insane. But, but I still, I love the movies. So do you consider the movie a success then in your eyes? No. It's definitely not exactly. I mean, you have to be financially successful or critically successful. You have one other two, you know, but I had a good time making it. And the abrupt ending, just the, you know, eight seasons, at least from a fan, it seemed like an abrupt ending.

Was there a business strategy, financial strategy, something we wouldn't know behind the scenes happening? They canceled us. Is that just what that? They fucking canceled us. We were their highest rated half hour by far. Why do they do? Why? It's very simple ego.

You got new people who came in and they want to, they may not like the show or whatever, but they want to put their, imprint on. So they would rather spend their money on something new that they came up with, that they had a hand in, and they gave us eight episodes. And I said, I want 12. And they said, no. So spin-off, reunion, sequel, anything coming? Who knows? And here's so much shit out there. Yeah, I know. Do you want it? Would you like that within your vision? Is that something you would like to achieve? You know what? I love 97% of the people I worked with. So what I did with the new show, Ramble on, that was all my crew, a lot of my cast. I got Charlie Sheen also, who's awesome. you know i like working with people that i like so it you know sure it came about we only have a few

more minutes with you so i want to get in as much as i can ramble on new tv show you're working on now the pilot how have things in tv land changed from when you were working on entourage 10 to 15 years ago versus a show like ramble well we're really going to find out because nobody does what i did i went and raised the money myself i produced it myself all of the nightmares of dealing with HBO and the development process, I wanted to skip over. So I wanted to go cast who I wanted, write what I wanted, and do it how I wanted. And we did that. Now, as you ultimately realize, which I still believe the time is coming where you can make your own show, distribute it yourself, and be able to make the money like Louis CK does or Taylor Swift does. But you need,

because the budgets are so high, you need an enormous amount of people to purchase it to do that. So ultimately, you end up in the same place where you want a streamer, you want a Netflix, Apple, Amazon, Hulu, whatever. But it was an amazing experience. We have a great pilot. And unlike Entourage where I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, we have a whole plan for what it is. And, you know, we've gotten some amazing responses from it.

But we're asking for people to go, okay, give us $6 million an episode to go make more of these. And like I said with the HBO thing, we're asking people who had no involvement in it. So when you go in, if I walked into Amazon today and said, here's my idea, they would get involved in the script, in the casting and all of that. So this is a done thing that I'm going, here, take it. All right. Two last questions. Rambal on. You compare it to entourage. How much did your budget, how much of your budget did you have for Rambal on for the pilot? I mean, I got, I did it like a student film, even though it looks like all Emmy nominated and Emmy winning cinematographers, editors, all that stuff. But everyone did me favor. So people came in for as little as they could

possibly afford to work with. So we did it probably 20% of what it would have called. if we actually shot it at a studio okay got it Doug your story is so cool I think you got to write a million books I'd literally read them all but you got to end and wrap with the trading secrets a secret no one can get from anyone else a professor they can't Google it they can't go watch something on YouTube they can only get it from your career one trading secret for our listeners what can you leave them with I think really love love what you're doing or get out of this because there's a lot of shit that you could be miserable doing make a lot more money and have a lot more

stability in life. So really, like, have a passion for what you're doing. And really, I believe in this business, don't, if you have something else you want to do also, go do that, you know. Yeah, I like that. And I also like that timeline that you talk about people setting. Go all in, give it a shot. Give yourself a timeline. Doug, where can people find everything that you have going on? I got Victor of the podcast, wherever there are podcasts. We're doing live shows around the country and the world. We're going to Australia in August. Sick. And ramble on, hopefully soon. We've got an amazing trailer I may put out on the internet soon, but hopefully that'll be on one of the streamers soon.

I love it. And if you put it on the internet, they'll follow you and they'll be able to see it. Yeah, Mr. Doug Ellen and Instagram, I still am too old to really work with TikTok and whatever, but Mr. Doug Allen and Instagram. I think you've got it all figured out pretty good. Guys, go download Victory, the podcast, Doug. Thank you for being on this episode, Traying Secrets. Ding, ding, ding.

We are closing in the bell to the Doug Ellen podcast, the creator, the founder of Entourage. David, I know you are a huge fan of the show. You have literally seen every episode of every season. So I'm so curious to get your take. What did you think of this episode? I personally me, David Ardwin, I loved this episode. I know we have a little curse going on where when I love it, it flops. And if I don't like it, people love it.

But this I love, I'm a huge entourage guy. A little piece of information for people back home. Our group chat is called Entourage 2.0. Me, you, Evan, and Hawk that we've had for five, six years off the show. I will let the people at home guess who's who out of those four and the characters if you know the show. But I loved it because the behind the scenes that he was giving us was incredible. And it almost makes me think I would love to see a show based off of Doug Allen. Because the names that he was dropping, you know, getting David Schwimmer before friends to help him out with a short

short film to the Mark Wahlbergs of the world to then finally making it big and just the stories he was sharing Jay. There were little tidbits that I have that sometimes threw me in a time capsule of like, oh my God, I didn't realize it was that long ago to just like the highs and lows of someone trying to make it in Hollywood. So I personally thought it was incredible. Yeah. I mean, it's just fascinating to hear all the behind the scenes, kind of like how the entire show is pitched and then the failures of the pitch and then what he did to come back. I mean, The story in the desert was outrageous to not see that one coming. But it's also fascinating to hear the stories behind the scenes with some of these huge people like a David Schwimmer.

You think about like this is the stuff that he's sharing and willing to share in a podcast. Just imagine the stories this guy has that he tells behind closed doors. And the big question I always think about still to this day is like how did a show that was having this much success, blowing it out of the water, every metric possible, end up to going off the air. Like I feel like there are so many untold stories with what has happened and what did happen as to why the show is no longer. But David, what do you think like when you're thinking about this episode? I don't know. What are some of the like the key points that you're like, damn, I couldn't believe that or I was thrown by that or anything like that. Well, I always love a little bit of a takeaway. Like at the end of the day, I don't think you're listening to podcasts in 2024 if you're

looking for some sort of motivation um and i think this provided it like again not telling everyone to do this but one week away from going to law school looks at his parents like i can't i can't fucking do this i'm going to be stand up in l a like i just love how he goes you need talent and hard work like if you lack a little talent you make up for a hard work right like but if you have a ton of talent you still need hard work you know like you said everything starts in the mail room just a just a perfect like example of someone like working his way up just doing what it takes to get in industry um i thought all that was great and now obviously is treating secret like do something you're passionate about if you're not if you're you know if you are doing something that you're

passionate about if you're not making them a lot of money at the time it's okay because you're fulfilled and if you're fulfilled and then you have hard work and you passion behind it you're going to get you're going to get paid off so as a takeaway that was my favorite takeaway of the of the episode what about you from your seat did you have any have any takeaways that that you're taking with you or that really stuck out to you i think what i think and hopefully people back at home can find this relatable. When you see someone's resume and they've done something that is just so outrageously successful and such an outlier, you always think I can't do that either, right? You're just like, I just don't, like, I couldn't do that. But what if I told you that the guy who

started and created and wrote one of the most successful TV shows ever to be on TV nationally and internationally was a dropout from law school who tried to do a stand-up comedy, right? Like, I think if you can tap into whatever you wanted in in your life to tap into, you're capable of it, right? And he found ways in weird places at weird times to, like, tap into the place he needed to go to then write one of the best shows of all times. So everyone's got it. It's just like, can you find it within yourself?

Like, that's my takeaway. Think about, I also think about this. Like, there's so many things you can do in your life. And there's so many things you'll do in a weekend. And there's so many things you'll do this summer. And there's so many things to do this fall and winter. And you think about, like, places you've got to go. and weddings you got to go to and work things you got to get done.

But I think it's kind of cool to really take your energy and focus on something that forever will be part of why you're respected. As long as Doug Ellen is alive, he will always, in the Hollywood and creative and media space, be so respected for the accomplishment of creating one of the best shows and writing it of all time. And I think if anyone is listening to this, and you can think about,

am I creating energy and tapping into something, something that could be like the best of all time or whatever the fuck it is whatever it is that's one thing i think we should all think about well you you always want something to hang your hat on too that's like your life's work like at the end of the day your life's work might be a career might be a passion project might be how you help the community it might be help how you help influence your family or your friends like he's kind of seeing the swan song of this and getting his gang back together for his new venture uh which is really exciting like you said um but you could tell it's so funny like you're taught where you we are talking about one of the most successful

TV shows of all time I know he referenced like Seinfeld money but you got to think maybe it was timing of it all maybe it was that he felt like a little slighted but you got to think with how successful it was he missed out on a lot of money now he's talking about 10 million dollars and he joked about like five million ghosts of taxes but it sounds like such a big number but he said to 14 years in the making yeah like you got to think for a show of this nature he said egos got in the way to your point of like why it just abruptly stopped. He didn't want to make a movie. He said the movie really didn't make a bunch of money. If it did, he said he would have been, you know, would have been much more well off. But

you know, when you really put it together, it just seemed like despite the success, the dollars and cents that we always talk about didn't really line up. And I think you got a feeling from that from him. He's very grateful. He's very generous. But it wasn't like, you know, he wasn't sit back resting on his laurels. I talked to Johnny Drama because I've got to do a couple golf outings with Kevin Dillon and I've talked a little bit about this and he always regrets and gets pissed at the fact that

they didn't have social media back in the day and he's like dude if we had social media then I'd be good forever but Johnny Drama every place I go like I've gone two or three places two different tournaments one was a dinner then the golf place and a couple others everyone fucking knows them

people line up to take pictures with him he's funny he's got everyone laughing and he's like yeah but look it man I got 100,000 followers on Instagram and I can't monetize off it. And where he monetized is still at this day is like he'll do these golf outings and he gets paid for him. He's going to like comic shows. He'll go to big like TV show things, right?

So it's interesting to see how times have changed and what the impact could have been if a show like that was around today. I mean, he's grinding. Yeah. It's nice that they have this to grind off of. But at the end of the day, they're grinding, which is kind of crazy. Like he told me, David, when you talk about grinding, he told me, David, when you talk about grinding, he told me he's going from that golf tournament he was going to a horror shop convention he's paid

a few bucks to like sit at a table i was like a horror i was like what horror movie were you in he's like bro i was in the blob man i was in the blob you know so it's in like we even talked and he's going to come on the podcast a little bit and he's had trust me the guy has had a very successful acting career in a lot of big movies but he has said like i don't think it's tough to have because the business side of it when your brand becomes so big from one role on a show it is kind of hard to pivot out of that role like he's almost always johnny drama and it's tough to pivot out of that yeah and you can only have so many johnny dramas in your life at one time i'm glad i got one yeah exactly which i can relate to but you know

it's just crazy um and uh you know to think about the dollars and sense not only in missing out on the social media and the influencing but you talk you guys talked about like the zero product placement on the show lazzarotti's the turtles driving the catalanx the and like he said he's responsible for like celebrity influence alcohol brands with kind of what they started on the show which was which was really cool um and take that back to if you guys have not listened go back to some of the early episodes training secrets if you have not listened to the rob deard deck episode where you learn that he has made his fortune on all brand placement into m tv shows early on in his career that is fascinating and you fast forward to 2024 and you think about

where today can you be catching opportunities where in 10 years they'll catch them but 2024 you're like shit I miss that that's one thing I think we could all think about 100% I just you know just thinking back on this episode and in his negotiation room with HBO having the real life version of rie gold going in there doing this thing um the fact that he went out to the desert he bought an lsad book he's like fuck this I'm packing up I can't do this anymore you know bought a million dollar house because he thought he was sweet and he's just grinding to make it. I just thought all that was incredible, man. It makes me want to go back and watch the show. And I think I think real quick, the one when like to think about him and Auregole, Jeremy Pippen in, you know, like selling this show

in the room, that's the scene out of a show too. Like I thought that was such a cool story as well. Exactly, which is why I would love to see a Doug Ellen movie or a TV show that shows that another another lens behind the lens um but you talk about HBO the show obviously blew up on HBO eight years did they two questions for you um one is HBO rerun do do they do they getting any kind of like royalties do you know of this show being still on the air that you see a friends you see a you know how i met your mother you see a grace anatomy like shows that are getting these reruns that people are still making tons of money off of do you know if honor rosh has that and then number two the word syndication came up a bunch and

points came up a bunch i'm pretty sure points equals equity that you had in the show syndication i think i may have asked on the rob dear deck but my old my old brain is is failing me so talk to me about the royalties talk to me about um anything like that that might happen for reruns and then how syndication really affects these types of shows i mean what's crazy is like your question actually is it's the same answer so syndication a TV show is exactly the process of like like rerunning it so making sure it's on air forever yeah so a television like show right is built created and then this was put on HBO but then a different television network will actually buy the show to run reruns on their network because it's so

successful so that is where the money is made from syndicating a show now one of the other things you talked about is I looked up some of the numbers I talked about in the intro a little bit this wasn't just a success in the United States it was an international hit hit and even in their movie which you know Doug talked about wasn't the biggest out there but 2015 the entourage movie did 46 million dollars in box office sales and 14 million of those were international so tons of success with the show I know the movie wasn't as big as they wanted it to be especially when compare that to like you know the big spider-man superman or like and even in entourage aquaman numbers but clearly a show that it was extremely successful and that's how syndicated shows work and that's why

you know friends they were making so much damn money because they syndicated out at such a high value and the ratings still were there from generation to generation at the end of the day this is the dream everyone listening has their group of friends it might be family it might be their college friends it might be their work friends it might be the friends that they made uh you know now that they have kids and they they they hang out with their their kids friends parents all the time at the end of the day you have a movie or in a tv show made about you and your best friends living your life all making each other better all you know doing in business together and having the fun times together i think that is like the dream i think that's why the show became so

popular i think everyone could relate in like a dream setting and uh i'm around 16 17 year old hockey players all day and most of them have never heard our entourage it breaks my little heart so that's to aging us a little bit and hopefully the show does get syndicated so we can educate all those youth out there about honor i love it hell of a show really really interesting interesting guests hope you guys enjoyed this totally different than anything social media related so we're tapping into all different careers and stories please give us five stars on the reviews. Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel and our Instagram and as always in the reviews. Give us some feedback and let us know what guests or subjects you want us to cover.

David, thank you for being here for another episode and we hope this was one you couldn't afford to miss. living the dream