Trading Secrets - 212. Joan Vassos & Chock Chapple: Newly engaged Golden Bachelorette couple dive into BTS of reality TV, thoughts on retirement, and what the future holds

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

This week, Jason is joined by newly engaged off of The Golden Bachelorette, Joan Vassos & Chock Chapple!  Joan and Chock dive into what the most unexpected thing that came their way during this period of time on reality TV, what kinds of financial conversations she had (or didn’t have), the importance of aligning lifestyles, where they overspend, the most memorable moments from the season, behind the scenes of reality TV, what consumers should know about the insurance business, thoughts on retirement, who they would nominate for the Golden Bachelor, the differences between the two seasons, and plans for their wedding!  Joan and Chock reveal all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!                                                     Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest: Joan Vassos and Chock Chapple Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Trading Secrets Steals & Deals! Shopify: Upgrade your business with Shopify. Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/secrets DraftKings: DraftKings is offering a warm welcome to new players with $100 INSTANTLY in casino credits with just a $10wager. Plus, EVERYONE can get in on the action with a holiday reward every week! So, sign up with code “TRADINGSECRETS” because the holiday cheer is here! https://sportsbook.draftkings.com/  Vimergy: Vimergy makes liquids vitamin and supplements that use clean ingredients, and are not loaded with unnecessary fillers and binders, like citric acid. And because they’re liquid, they absorb faster than tablets, gummies and capsules. For free shipping and saving up to 12% with their mix and save program, use code TRADINGSECRETS at https://vimergy.com/ 

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm Jason Tardick and welcome to the pre-market trading segment where I would tell you a little bit about our guest, something you need to know what's happening out there in the market and an update from my personal life. This episode is awesome, especially if you are a Bachelor fan. We have Joan and Chalk from The Golden Bachelor. They are now engaged. Where are they going to go? Have they talked money? You know, all the stuff that

you haven't heard in a very quick interview, 20-minute rapid fire. And then after that, I have the one, the only Susanna Summers coming on. She is the guru of numbers, all things, pop culture, and specifically Bachelor 2. On Instagram, she goes by Bachelor data and pop culture data. We're going to talk all about the ratings of the Golden Bachelor versus the Golden Bachelorette. What happened on Dancing with the Stars? Where does she see the Bachelor franchise going? And just overall really interesting information as it relates to ratings, numbers, all different shows, what marketers are looking for. I'm telling you, it was a masterclass from Susanna Summers.

So make sure that you stay tuned to the recap. Now, some stuff that you should know out there, Cyber Monday, holy smokes, it was the biggest online shopping day ever. $15.8 million were spent every 60 seconds. 13.3 billion in total, up 7.3% from last year. Now, we did Spotify raps. We got some cool numbers here. My listeners are from 114 countries, top countries of United States. The number one rated episode, the most commented episode out there, episode 200, Mama Kaluche in the house.

Dale Tarduk dives into family and career history. All right. We also talk about the listener age brackets. We have 3% in that 18 to 24 demo. we have 24% 25 to 29, 39%, 30 to 34, 26% in 35 to 44, 5% in 45% to 54, and 3% on 55 plus. We gain 28% listeners, 24% streams and 47% followers this year. Big year for trading secrets, 61% new listeners this year. So thank you, everyone.

Please go give us five stars. Subscribe to the podcast. Make sure that you are following us on YouTube, on Instagram, and Jason Tardick, on TikTok, and Instagram as well, and thank you so much. Personal update. I've been in Art Basel all week. Art Basel is like the Super Bowl of art. And so it's been fascinating to work with all different brands like, you know, American Express and Capital One and Petron. And I played at DJ Khalid's tournament, golf tournament, which was just fascinating. And so at these big events, there are big brands. And then the big brands are who we work with on the agency side. So that's kind of the business model

behind it. Next week, I'll be in Cincinnati for some work stuff. I'm doing some speaking work. I'm really excited about that. Suit and tied, Jason, back on. And then I will be in Florida the following week. And then I'm done. I'm done. Charlotte for Christmas, packing it in. And you know what? 2024. See you later. See you never. Some years you win. Some years you build character said by Steve Jobs. I'll leave it at that. Let's ring in the bell with the one, the only. Actually, both of them, Joan and Chalk. Joan and Chalk, congratulations on your engagement. What an unbelievable finale it was.

When I'm looking at the numbers, though, I've got to ask you guys. We saw 2.8 million viewers on the premiere, 3. million viewers on the finale. When you hear about these numbers and you think about your journey on reality TV, what was the most unexpected thing that came your way over this period of time? But I'd be the last man standing. I had no idea of what I was getting into. I was ready to find love, but, you know, the story is my daughter signed me up for this. I had no idea.

Hadn watched an episode before. And so I came in completely unknowing of the whole process. I think it was good for me to do it that way, but there were some things that I wish I would have known. But the great thing, Keith, one of my fellow bachelor guys, he'd watched every episode of every series. He knew everything. And so it was a great resource for me. But it was a heck of a ride. Yeah. And for me, I came out like actually engaged, you know, I went in thinking that like my ultimate goal was to find somebody that I wanted to explore a relationship with outside, you know, kind of bachelor and wasn't sure that you could, you know, go through the journey that quickly and end up really being in love and ready to be engaged. And I actually was at the end.

I love that. As you go through this process, because we think about people that listen to the show, there's a lot of singles out there. And one thing they ask a lot about is what are some of the tough questions that you should ask? Or amongst your journey and dating, what are the things you should do to make sure that you're finding the right person? Joan, given the experience that you just had, what advice would you have for those listeners? I would say that everybody enters a relationship, like in search of, they need something that they get from that relationship and that you're going to have to also give back. So make sure that your partner knows what you need from it. And make sure you know what they need from the relationship that you are able to give back

what they are looking for. That's amazing. I love it. Now, we talk finance on this podcast. So I want to ask you, Joan, what type of financial and career conversations do you have maybe behind the scenes that we didn't see on the show? We haven't had like a lot of, you know, like how much money do you have, that kind of thing? More about lifestyle. And so you can kind of, you know, figure out that you, you know, expect the same lifestyle as you go, you know, as you go forward. I think we both have our own money, so I'm not super worried about it. But I just wanted to make sure that, and so did he, that we have the same like goals going forward as far as travel and, you know, how we, you know, the ability to enjoy life like we are

both hoping for. And so, you know, didn't actually talk numbers, but we talked about lifestyle. I love it. One question I got for you that it's a fun one. We'll go to both of you guys. Joe and Chuck, what is one thing you think you overspend on? You know you overspend on it, but unless you go completely broke, you're not going to change you. What is that one thing?

Did you say one thing? I didn't give you a 10. The bio for the show was he's a shopper. Yeah. And from clothes to sporting goods to watches to, you know, watchers to, I'm past the car phase. I don't need that in my life anymore. Had an airplane, second, third homes. I just like the no drama, just easy, easy lifestyle at this point.

Yeah, I think I spend, well, I'm not going to say I spend too much money. I spend the amount of money that makes me happy. I like nice purses, so I'm not a cheap investment. I love that. I love that. All right, one thing I always like to ask people after the show is behind the scenes of reality TV. Like when we were with a bunch of people from Bachelor Nation last night,

we always talk about some of the things that happened behind the scenes. Were there any, like, what was the most memorable thing? And Chalk will start with you behind the scenes of reality TV that you'll take on forever, or just as you think about your process and your charity? Well, a couple of things is they did show the bromance. And the show really, you know, put an emphasis on that. But I will tell you, somebody that lived through this for seven weeks, we were all better friends than really what they could show.

And so just getting to know the guys, spend time within the stories. Jordan and I called it free group therapy. You know, if there was a one-on-one date, you had the whole day. You know, you've been a contestant. We had that whole day just to spend with the guys. And then I do like the mansion as far as you've got bunk rooms. I like that because you get to know your roommates. You really do.

You spend a good amount of time with them. And you get a little bit of their habits and those type of things. But I was roommates with Michael, Charles L, Gary, and Guy. And we really got to know each other. Because there's times you wake up, you know, we're a little bit older. So you wake up earlier in the morning. We didn't have to do something until eight or nine for a couple hours or an hour or two. We just talked to each other.

So it was a great way to get to know the fellow contestants. I love that. One quick follow up to that. And then, Joe, I want to hear your answer. But I remember the bowling date. And I think there's interesting symbolism there because on the show, it feels like some people can become villainized when they're trying to pursue the person they love, which I always thought, right frankly, is a little ass backwards. And in that date, it was clear that like you were like, this is it. I'm not here for the boys anymore. I am solely locked in for Joan. Did you feel any like of that brotherhood was kind of losing? or was dwindling as the time went on? And how did you handle that and some of the pressure from the other guys? Well, Guy, at that specific date, guy came up to me and he goes, can I have some time with Joan? I said, absolutely. And I never took Joan away from any of the other guys, never did.

We just were naturally drawn to each other. Jonathan came out and said, he goes, it was the first time we saw them as a couple. He goes, they looked like a couple. And I don't remember the exact quote. And there was some gentlemen on this show that really cared for Joan. And I think that was the tough thing for them to see. It was going to happen sooner or later. It was me, fortunately, because of our connection,

but for them to see it firsthand how close we had really come together and grown. I love it. I love it. And, Joan, back to that question about behind the scenes of reality TV. I think people would love to hear that answer from you. I think that I don't think anybody really realizes how long the days are. I know you experienced it. You get up early in the morning and you filmed until really late a night,

especially on Rose ceremony nights. I mean, it's into the wee hours in the morning. Sometimes it's even light outside. And then how much you don't see. So there are cameras rolling all the time and it's all day long and there's multiple cameras with, you know, filming different things, how much happens that you don't see. You know, when you have a one-on-one date, it's an eight-hour date sometimes and you see 10 minutes of it. So, you know, so much happens that people don't see.

Yeah. Is it looking back at your journey, is there anything you would have done differently if you could think about one thing? Is there one thing you would have changed or done differently? You know, I think I ended up exactly where I needed to be, especially when I looked at the guys that were left and I got down to my final four because those row ceremonies are really, really difficult and you do second guess yourself a lot during that time. But when I look back and think about second guesses and should I've done something

different, I think I ended up exactly where I should be. So in the long run, it was right. But as it was happening, you know, you doubt yourself a lot. You've been there. You get it, you know, you get down to a few people that you're trying to, to decide between and you just say, okay, I just got to make a decision. Yeah. So I think, you know, in the long run, I don't regret anything I did. But while I was going through it, I had a lot of angst about it. Yeah, totally. All right. Well, one of the cool things about

this show is it creates opportunities and we talk careers on this podcast. As you guys have wrapped up your journey on the Golden Batch, right? Do you think it all about professionally doing anything within the media space, entertainment space, digital media, when you think about your professional careers? Yeah. I kind of do a little bit. I actually had to take a leave of absence from my job, and I think they backfilled me, so I'm not sure if I actually have a job there anymore. So I've thought a little bit about it, and it's not something that I ever gravitated to. In fact, I was actually a really shy person prior to doing this, and now I feel kind of pretty comfortable in the media world. So I don't know how to go about doing this, but I like it.

I think it's an interesting space, and I don't know if there's room for somebody my age coming into this, but, you know, if there is, I would certainly like to pursue it a little bit. I can see you host on TV. That's just my, this is my two cents. And I've never been a house husband, but I think that's my next career. She had a photo shoot during one of the happy couples.

And she came back. I met her in the driveway with a glass of wine. I had prepared the dinner and did the dishes. And I go, because I've had the career, and I'm involved with a couple of different businesses. And I've had that, and it's kind of nice just to slow down.

I don't know, Chop, with that voice, you got that radio voice. you can be hosted. Sometimes I'm like, am I talking to Peyton Manning or am I talking to the job? I've heard that. The question I got for you is based on your LinkedIn of the research I did, it looks like you run an insurance agency, and correct me if that is wrong. But we always like to give viewers from a consumer perspective, something from someone they look up to within the industry. So is there anything from a consumer perspective as we're looking at specific insurances, we should know that we otherwise wouldn't unless we heard it from you?

Well, I would first say is invest in insurance company stocks. It's very profitable. And from a detailed micro perspective, insurance companies have had some years where they haven't made money, but they're making money now. And so it's a good investment there, but it still is a commodity. And what we mainly do is sell business to business insurance. I've done that my whole career. They've had three different businesses. I'm also involved in the construction industry as well.

I've done some consulting business-wise. I like that. That might be my career in the future. I have a young gentleman that would like to take over the insurance business. We'll see what happens. I always wanted to hold it open for my kids, but they're back living in Charlotte. So I don't know what will happen there. But I'm in a good place, happy, and I still want to work.

And that's one thing that we've talked about. I will drive Joan crazy if I don't have something to do during the day. We already know that about each other. It's like we're going to Maryland next week. And I go, do you have anything I could do, get anything fixed. What do I need to do? I'm like, give you project. Probably, yeah.

Literally sounds like my mom and dad to it. I love it. You got to get a hobby. You got to get a hobby. You know, I know there's been a lot of discussion about where you guys are going to go next. And I see that at least at the article I read that you're looking at places in New York this weekend. So a question I have for you is when you think about the future, do you have an idea of like possibly when you'd want to completely retire and make more of a permanent living situation or are you taking it day by bed? I'll tell you like the thought of retiring isn't like something that's super appealing to me.

I don't want to think I want to work all time and, you know, full time and, you know, worked a 12-hour day, but I think it keeps you young and makes your life a little more exciting. And, you know, as long as it doesn't interfere with, like, some of the things that we want to travel and do, I think I'm, I don't think I'm ready to retire. But I haven't worked as hard as chalk. Like, I had a lot of years off when I raised my kids. So I'm kind of, you know, I'm, you know, back end loading my career. It seems like, you know, maybe in my 60s at this point. Yeah. And how about for you, John? about retirement? Do you have an age set in stone? Are you thinking about it? You know, it could be

63 to 65. I sold my first business when I was 50 and I thought I'd retire and that didn't last very long. I was gone, I think two weeks and I started another business. That's just how I made. I love to work and I'm pretty good at spending money. So I need to continue to work and that's the way it is. That is the way it is. All right. So if you stayed in reality TV in any capacity, obviously it would be a dating show. But if you did something like in the challenge space, is there one reality show that you, you know, might have your eyes on you'd be like, that would be fun. I'd love to do that. Well, after the bowling date, I was nominated for House of Villains.

I don't know. I'm saying that. And I'm like, oh, that's not really what I want to do. But what I think Joan would be great at, especially with Bachelor Nation, is consulting. And especially with the ladies that are on the show to give a mature perspective. Because there's a lot of emotions and unusual circumstances that come into play. And I'd never been on a TV before. Never, ever.

And it's a whole different world. And then you start second-guessing yourself. You might say something. You might act something in a certain way. And then there is the love, especially with Bachelor, there is the love and people get rejected. I'm very complimentary of the show having psychologist on staff because there's times that people need it.

And especially the ones to get down to the end that really care for the person but aren't selected that are eliminated. That's, it's an emotional right. And it's real. I will tell you firsthand, it is real people. I feel like I love the idea of a consulting, you know. So it's a very unique experience, as you know, and you come out the other end with a lot more knowledge and insight into what worked and what didn't work and, you know, how to handle your emotions. I love the idea of the Bachelor, Golden Bachelor in Paradise.

And I think that, you know, that's going to be a little bit of a challenge that I think maybe I would love to be part of that, but like maybe on the hosting side or, you know, can I be the bartender? or she's something fun. You and Wells just nicked an upcoming sales there. Yeah, Wells, you can make the drinks. I'll just do like the therapy. And so that would be fun. I think I would love to give Dancing with the Stars a shot, you know, a lot of energy. I love that show.

I'm a huge fan. I went twice this season already. I absolutely love that. So I maybe, you know, if I'm asked, I would say yes. I'm just putting that out there in the universe. Manifest that. Let's go. Maybe you're not tender out to every voice, maybe dance for the stars.

Chalk, you'll be on House of Villains. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not Mormon, but I love the secret lives of Mormon wives. So I don't think I'm eligible. But if they need a token Catholic, I'm ready. You're ready to go. You're ready to go. You're in the boardroom. You're the executive of ABC, Warner Brothers, Disney, all the places. You've got to decide the next golden bachelor. Who are you going? I've been at a lot of boardrooms in my life. I have eight guys that I think would be perfect at it. I'd put it in a hat and I'd pull it out because each one has a different characteristic, different personalities, and you can go from one to the right of Charles Ling to a Keith, to a Jordan, to all these guys, to Pascal, that bring uniqueness to it.

And we've talked about this numerous times. And we honestly do not have one that we think, you know, it's not that they're not a stand out. But I think each one is so individual. And I think that, you know, I said it earlier, you don't see so much of what happens in the house. So maybe some of these guys' personalities weren't as developed and the nation didn't really get to know him. I mean, obviously, Charles is just loved. And of course, he would be amazing. And Mark was well known before I ever even came on the show because of Kelsey and Joey. So, you know, he's already out there. But I think there's so many guys that were kind of in the background and you don't notice. Like Greg, he was

hilarious. He's like two PhDs. He's smart. He has the quickest wit. He's just funny as can be. You know, I don't think Dan was, you know, super highlighted. There's only just so many minutes in an episode that you can show things and, you know, you're concentrating on dates and, you know, other important things that are happening, that just these interaction, the day-to-day, you know, guys that we get to see are, there's so many of them. So I, you know, and I'll tell you, it could be a little bit of a challenge. There's a lot of these guys that now that they come off the show have become very popular. And some of them are already pairing off. They, like five of them or dating somebody seriously.

Yeah. I get some tips from these boys. I know. The question for you is being on the Golden Bachelor and then Golden Bachelorette, there are obvious differences that we all know. But what would you say was like the biggest difference between those two experiences that maybe wouldn't be so obvious? Yeah.

Well, going from being a contestant to the main is huge. But maybe the less obvious one was like my apprehension going into Golden Bachel was so much more significant than it was going as to even. be the lead on Bachelorette because I didn't know, you know, really what the heart of the show was going to be. And if we were going to end up looking foolish, like, you know, a bunch of old people coming on TV and dating and would it look undignified? And, you know, there was a question to my mind at that point, like, was I being selfish? Do you, is it really right to think that you get to have a second love in life and, you know, that everybody thinks that at this age you should

be taking a backseat to the next generation that's coming up and you should be in like a support role and to, you know, when you go out and find love and you prioritize your own life, then you're not prioritizing maybe your kids and letting, you know, the next generation move in. So I was very apprehensive and nervous going on Golden Bachelor. My fears were alleviated pretty quickly. I saw, you know, I got to meet the producers and people working on the show. And, you know, I knew that they were sincere and they really wanted us to find love and they were going to make that as easy as possible. So I think like the thing that people didn't see was probably how apprehensive and hard it is when you first go on and your second go at it

is a lot more comfortable. And I don't know, maybe you felt the same thing when you did it. Yeah. Another question that leads to that is the person. We've talked a little professional, a little financial, the personal side of things. Everyone adores and loves both you guys and have so much support. But also at any level when you're on this stage, there's also no orders. It could just be within your family. It could be one or two haters online. Has any of that impacted you at any extent? You hear some of that stuff? How do you handle it? From a family perspective, has there been any curve balls that they're like, oh, this is different. This is a little harder than I expected seeing mom or dad on TV and seeing someone maybe make a comment or something like

that. I think ABC did a very good job of educating when you start. And they go through social media training and they say there's going to be 9010, 95, 5. It's just going to happen. And I mean, I had somebody come at me about my dog, and you're like, really. So, and my daughter looks at all that for me, because after the first week, I go, I'm done. I just, I'm a positive person. And you just can't make everyone happy, especially in TV and reality TV. And, you know, they might be going through a tough time. They just might not like me.

We had something unique happened. I'd never watched an episode, never had before I went on the show. We're at a happy couples. And we go, let's watch one of the previous series. And we watched a series, and the first day, the getting out of the show, Now, the limbo, it was a female lead and a bunch of guys. Within five minutes, I had five guys I didn't like. So I became a fan book.

I don't like that guy. I don't like that guy. You don't even know who they are. It's amazing. This human nature and the psychology of this show is just incredible. So you just have thick skin and you just don't take it personal. Yeah. You know, anything that happens.

You can't. You know who you are and you just have to be positive about the whole experience. I was shocked by, you know, again, 95 positive, 5% negative. but the negative, it's so hurtful. And so I try very hard not to look at it, but I want to see the 95, not because I need the validation, but because so many people have reached out to both of us and talked about, like, how similar their journey, how they've lost a loved one or how hard it was getting back and how hard it was with their families.

And like, I feel like I really want to talk to this people and answer them. And so you have to kind of weed through those negative ones. Even if you don't want to see them, you have to, if you want to, like, actually be, you know, a kind person and talk to the other people like you have people out there you're affecting their lives a little bit which is like such a such an honor and I want to make sure I answer them yeah exactly I think to your point into chalk's point it it's like you don't get enough time that sometimes you're mislabeled and even though it's 5% or 2% or 1% you want to be you want to step into that and it can hurt it's a real thing and it just comes with the territories last question I got before

we get a quick trade secret from each of you is wedding would you film your wedding would you make it a TV series, a show. What do you think? I've like gone through a lot of like reflection on that because we knew we would be asked that obviously. And in the beginning, I just say, you know, everything has been so public. And I think it's just like the end of the love story. I really wanted to be just about us and our families and our friends. But as I think about it and, you know, I wanted this journey to be not just about, you know, who myself and whoever I end up with if I end up with somebody, I wanted it to be about like the bigger message that, you know, dating at this age and having a great outcome is possible. And like that message

of hope. And I feel like maybe like it wouldn't be true to the whole journey. Like I'd be stopping it before the book ended by not showing, you know, the ending, you know, that we actually found love when we got married. So I think I'm open for, you know, maybe a more public wedding. And then I have three, I have three questions on that. Yeah. When, wear, suit, or tucks. That's all, that's my involvement. He wants to have nothing to do with the money, money, which is just fine. A guy like you, I think the answer is tough. So I just, that's just, that's just Let's wrap up with the trading secret. So, you know, we didn't get to talk as much financing career stuff.

I'd love with your perspectives of what you guys have done and how you've changed things over the course of your lives to the good. One trading secret that's unique to your circumstances, it could be career-focused, finance focus, or personally focus. Don't sweat the small stuff. And before you were to say a negative comment or do something that might affect somebody, sleep on it or really consider the other person's feelings. I think for me, I'm more of a relationship person. So I think prioritizing your relationships,

you know, the ones that are important, make sure you know, nurse them and foster them and the, you know, the ones that aren't, you know, aren't giving you what you need out of life. You know, there's only so many hours in a day and, you know, pick your friends, pick your relationships and concentrate on those. I lot it. Don't sweat the small stuff and just this idea of like shedding. Like focus on the people that really matter most and don't be afraid to lose those relationships, start bringing value to you. Joe Chalk, congratulations. on everything. We can't wait to see what's next. I'm ready to see you and it tucks on TV getting married. All right. I'll be there. I love that. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for being on this

episode sharing secrets. I appreciate it. Thank you. Have a good day. We are recapping the Joan and Chalk episode and we're not doing it with the curious Canadian. We are doing with a very familiar face of trading secrets. Susanna Summers, aka Bachelor Data, Pop Culture Data, and all things numbers. So Susanna, Thank you so much for being back on Trane Secrets. Thanks for having you back. One of my favorite podcasts. Oh, it is always, always an honor to have you. But let's get into the numbers, what you do best,

especially after just hearing Joan and Chalk after the finale and what's new with them, where they're going. They even talked a little bit about the fact they haven't really talked to money, but we'll see where that goes. What I want to talk with you is ratings. So you are the ratings expert. And we saw that the first season of the Golden Bachelor performed exceptionally well. And what I read, and you could even probably correct this, that the finale reached 9.42 million viewers across all platforms, marking the highest audience for the Bachelor franchise since 2020. So we know Golden Bachelor performed really well. I'm sure you have even more refined numbers. But as we just talked to Joan, how did the Golden Bachelor do in comparison to the Golden Bachelorette?

So it was a bit of an opposite story when it comes to ratings for Golden Bachelorette, unfortunately. The big headlines this season, was that since the premiere, it was one of the lowest watch premieres in franchise history. But the big story here was actually around the demo number. So when it comes to ratings within U.S. television, it's all measured by this company called Nielsen. And the big thing to know is how we're measuring the data. So first things first, there's different ways that we can look at the data. The number you were mentioning for Golden Bachelor, the finale, that nine million number. That's a more extended number. So are we looking at the same? day viewing? Are we looking at three days out, seven days out? So the way that I like to look at

the ratings is by looking at same plus live day viewing and DVR playback through 3 a.m. The reason why I like to look at this number is because this has been the most consistently reported number since the beginning of this show in the early 2000. So it allows us to compare apples to apples. And also important to note as streaming has become a thing, those streaming numbers are being incorporated into the same plus live day viewing. And BBR playback. So within those numbers, the two things that we're going to look at that are reported are the total viewers and then the demo number. Now, the demo number, this isn't what we really want to pay attention to because this number is going to refer to the rating or viewership that

the figures are for a specific demographic group. So most commonly, that's going to be the 18 to 49 age group in the United States. And the demographic number, it's highly prized by the industry. because advertisers look at it to look at the representative group that's most perceived to have the highest buying power, brand loyalty, and openness to buying new products. So we're going to look at that demo number because it's the number that's basically the bottom line on the financial health of the franchise or the show that we're looking at. So when it comes to the demo number, this is the percentage of a specific demographic group. so that 18 to 49 that's watching the show of Joan's season,

eight of the nine episodes in her season were some of the lowest rated episodes of all time. So if we look at all the episodes, I think we've had 450-something episodes of this franchise. In the lowest 20 episodes ever, eight of those episodes were in there. So that was the big story this season, is that it didn't just perform badly in terms of viewership.

The demo number was not good. That's so interesting to me because, I mean, you and I both agree. We've talked about it. Joan killed it as the Golden Bachelorette. She did such a great job. So what do you think? What parallels do you draw? Like if you're sitting in the boardroom, I always love to ask you this question, but

you're sitting in the ABC boardroom, what parallels are you drawing from the success of the Golden Bachelor? Then compared to some of these 18 to 24 demo ratings that are like, it sounds like that's the gold. That's the crux of what the analytics that performed that badly. What's your draw? What's your takeaway, and then what do you do from here? Yeah, so I think the big mistake that the franchise made this year

is that they put the Golden Bachelorette on Wednesday night competing against Survivor. So Survivor is a competition show. People want to watch it live. They don't want to get spoiled. So as a result, it was competing against a show that was getting double the amount of viewers and double the demo that Golden Bachelorette was seeing. And we saw the same problem last year with Bachelor in Paradise, 2023. which, as we all know, didn't happen this year.

They took a pause on it. Bachelor in Paradise last summer, it was some of the lowest rated episodes and some of the lowest watched episodes, and it was on after Golden Bachelor. So Golden Bachelor was pulling in the same night, some of the highest viewership numbers, and then Bachelor in Paradise was tanking because it was on at a bad time on a hard night. So for Golden Bachelorette, if they want to keep this golden franchise coming back, they're going to need to put it on a better night. And the time of the year that they put Golden on this year, it's a really competitive time of the year.

It's going against sports. It's going against Survivor. There's stuff on each night. There was also one episode that was rated horribly that was against the World Series game that it had 18 million viewers. So the first thing is what night are they putting it on? But the other thing to keep in mind is that Golden Bachelorette came off of some pretty difficult time for the franchise. So first and foremost, we had two people were cast on the show for Joan's season. men that had former restraining orders against them. This was big news, but it was also big news because it came off of the news of Devin on Jen's season, Jen's final winner, him having a very troubling pass to say the least

of restraining order and a rest record and still being cast on the show. So I think that also contributed to kind of this loss of steam for the show. And on top of that, we had Golden Bachelor where they pushed the wedding so quickly and then there was the divorce that came after, that I think kind of all of that combined led to people watching less, which is such a disappointment because I truly think Joan was one of the best leads that we've had, especially compared to Gary last year.

I think Joan was fantastic. But the other thing to keep in mind in the conversation of demos with this franchise is that when you have a male-led season versus a female-led season, the female-led seasons always perform worse than the male-led seasons. And I know, hold up, everybody's going to think, oh, that's so misogynistic. Whenever the woman is the lead, nobody wants to watch. But people need to remember that the majority of the screen time is actually going to the contestants.

So personally, I think The Bachelor performs so well, not because it's a male lead, but because the majority of the people that we are watching are women. And the people who watch the Bachelor franchise are majority women. So while The Bachelorette is a female-led show, the majority of the contestants that we're watching on Golden Bachelorette and Bachelorette are men, which are going to be less engaging for women to watch, wanting to follow, wanting to know what products they're using, wanting to watch their lifestyle. Women are going to relate less with men than they do with women. Fascinating information, especially when you consider how much screen time the cast is getting

versus the actual lead. It makes perfect sense, everything that you're saying. When we think about Wednesday versus Monday, I'm assuming that Monday, Tuesday, those have to be the biggest nights of Nielsen ratings and viewership, right? So it's like comparing apples to oranges, Golden Bachelor versus Golden Bachelorette if you're airing on different days of the week, right? Yeah, and we've seen that historically in this franchise too. We saw 2022 Bachelor in Paradise. They alternated between Monday and Tuesday. The previous season, most of the episodes were on Mondays. Some of them were on Tuesdays, depending on the week. We've seen kind of that alternating viewership, depending on the time of the year, but typically Monday night episodes just perform

so well for this franchise. And the time of the year that Golden Bachelorette was on, it was going against, you know, Monday night, football, sports. You know, it's tough to compete against that. I love it. Okay. So as we do, if we look forward into this franchise, right? So you got the Golden Bachelorette, which just aired. We know that Grant season just finished filming.

So that will come to fruition here. I think probably in the winter, right? What is the, what does the lineup look like right now? Do you know what is officially in the, announced for the franchise? Yeah, so grant season is going to premiere at the end of January. We just got the premiere date. Okay. We haven't seen a lot of marketing for his season yet, which is a bit odd. The one video that they put out felt very photoshopped to say the least, but we do see better marketing material as we get closer to the premiere. So people need to keep

that in mind. I've seen a lot of people being like, oh, they're doing grant dirty, hold off, wait until we're about a few weeks out from the show premiering, and then we can start to talk about how much marketing budget it's getting. From what I've been hearing, though, there have been some cuts on the back end, but that doesn't just go for Bachelor. We also heard that there were a lot of cuts for Dancing with the Stars,

and yet Dancing with the Stars had one of its best season in years. And historic, not only viewership, everybody was talking viewership during Into the Stars, but their demo numbers were insane this season. Okay, we're going to talk about Dancing with the Stars in one second because I find it fascinating, especially being at the finale and hearing the team talk about

the massive success. I think one of the best shows, best rated shows on the ABC network was this past season. Before we go there, we got The Bachelor, and then is it slated to go Golden Bachelor, Bachelorette Paradise? Or what is the schedule currently look like? Or what are you estimating that it will look like? So they haven't announced the schedule yet. But if they follow what we've seen for the last few years and also historically, we'll have Grant Season and then the future Bachelorette, which they haven't announced yet.

We don't know who it's going to be if it's going to be from Grant's season. or a previous contestant. And then we can probably expect that in the summertime, as soon as Bachelorette ends, we'll probably see either Paradise come back, which they did announce, Paradise is happening this year. It seems like they wanted to give a few more years to build up a better cast because they were kind of rushing each season.

It doesn't seem like the cast were really producing as much buzz as we've seen. But now that we've had Joey's season, which not only had great ratings, but the contestants were going so viral themselves on social media, I think we're going to see a lot more buy-ins to Bachelor in Paradise this year. And then if I had to guess, they'll do another Golden season later this year. But if I had to guess, it might be up and flux after Jones low ratings.

Interesting. So you think we're going to go Golden Bachelor, Bachelor, Bachelorette, Paradise, question mark for Golden Bachelorette, Golden Bachelorette of the fall. All right. Yeah. Okay. There's the prediction from the one and only the Bachelor date of Susanna Summers. Susanna, we did talk a little bit about Dancing with Stars. you already alluded to the success. Obviously, it was a fun season. Having some friends out there

and some people that we work with was just so exciting. But never have I seen. You know, I've been watching Dancing with the Stars for so many years. Have I seen this much buzz with Dance with the Stars? Tick-Tox, Instagram, the engagement rates on social media, the ratings, all the things. I don't know the numbers, but I just saw it everywhere. What did the numbers look like? It was absolutely insane. So the premiere got about five million. viewers. And then episodes two through seven got about four million. Now, when we get to the finale at the last few episodes, the last three episodes did so well. So the finale got 6.364, so about 6.4 million viewers and a 1.14 demo. Now, that demo number to compare it to Bachelor and especially

what we were seeing with Golden, the lowest rated demo episode was Jen's episode season four at a 0.25 and then Jones Premier got a demo of 0.26. So the fact that Dancing with the Stars finale got a 1.1 for demo is insane. That means that that show is so valuable to advertisers and they're going to be getting way more money from the network for future seasons. The other episodes that we saw just before the finale got 5.1 and 5.2 million viewers with the 0.71 and a 0.75 demo. To put that in perspective, the last time that Bachelor has seen a 1.1 for demo was Bachelor in Paradise 2019. A lot of the episodes had that rating number. And then Bachelor at 2020, we had a lot of episodes in that rating range. Now, I will say

Katie's season, the next Bachelor that we saw after Clarenetia dropped to 0.88. So that was a pretty big drop there. And then technically Clayton had one episode that hit that 1.14 rating. But the last season where we saw those ratings come in consistently in the Bachelor franchise was Matt's season. So those numbers are fantastic. And I attribute most of it to the TikTok effect in the way that this franchise has really embraced this upcoming generation. Reminder, that demo number is 18 to 49 years old. And while a lot of us, myself included, we are starting to age out from that 18 to 20s age range. I'm in my mid-30s. We really need to see the show embracing this upcoming generation for the health of the show. And I know that there's a lot of mixed opinions in the

Dancing with the Stars world around the embracing of TikTok. A lot of people are saying, we're spending too much time on it. They're getting distracted. They're making dances that are just catering to TikTok audiences and going viral. That's what the show needs to continue to be successful and stay on the show. They have to embrace this upcoming generation. So as a business takeaway here, it feels as though, and we're hearing it too from companies that we work with, they are all targeting the next generation, right? The Gen Zs, the Gen Elfas. Then what we would likely see as a shift is younger leads, younger contestants, right? Because they're more connected with the younger generation, which will then get more engaged with the show, which will then perform on social media and the ratings. Is that correct? yeah for the most part but i mean if we look at dancing with the stars this season one of the contestants that led to the most social media growth it wasn't just riley the pro but it was actually alona the rugby player that was the star of the olympics this summer the thing that

alona did differently this season that we are now seeing everybody else on the show embrace the pros were even seeing the music department and the costume departments from dancing with the stars embracing this method and comparing especially Alona to Sosci Gomez and Charlie DeMilio from previous seasons who are young embraced TikTok. What Alona did differently is that the amount of content that she makes is insane. I mean, while she was at the Olympics, it's like a two and a half week since that she was there. She made 64 videos for TikTok. That's insane. While competing the Olympics. Like I'm here I am looking at my own methodology being like, I can only put out two to three videos a week. What's my excuse? What is my excuse?

64 videos. And the other thing, too, like, you can put out shit videos. Her videos are unbelievable. They all, every single one of them are so well thought out. Wow. It's unbelievable. That's what we're seeing. The rest of the pros and even the contestants embracing is the volume. And we've seen a lot of the pros that had been going on podcast interviews talking about this, is that Alona doesn't think, she doesn't have a drafts folder. She makes a video and she puts it out immediately. And the reason why this is important, if you're listening at home being like, but why does that matter? Maybe I'm not consuming this content. Why is this important to the show? The reason why creating this behind the scenes content in between each episode is important is because

it gets people to be die hard fans of the people that they're rooting for. So if you look at something like Survivor, Love Island, Dancing with the Stars, these are competition shows where people are bought in. The way that people are still writing multi-page think pieces on how certain people were robbed in the Dancing with the Stars finale. Because the way that this show is working, these contestants are showing making all this behind the scenes content. I can tell you myself, I am tuning into TikTok on a daily basis during the season to see what Riley and Stephen are up to because she's doing a day-by-day blog. She's showing us everything they've been up to when she hurt her ankle. We're seeing behind the scenes of that. We're seeing little snippets

of their dances. We're getting that buy-in. That thing leads to us wanting to vote hard. for them. So if we look just at social media growth that's come from this, Dancing with the Stars this season, Alona, during her time on the show between Instagram and TikTok, she grew 1.7 million followers between the two platforms. Riley, 750,000 new followers. Even the Dancing with the Stars account itself that just posts about the show, those two accounts grew over 600,000 followers. So those behind the scenes content, it gives us more content to buy in and fight for the people that we want to win the show. It increases participation from the audience, if that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. It's unbelievable to see those results. It's also interesting to see, right, same network, same, like a lot of crossover, but then also see the Golden Bachelor, Golden Bachelorette, and of course, Joey sees into the Bachelor results this year, this past year, and what it looks like moving forward. How do they embrace TikTok? How do they embrace the younger next generation?

Do they or do they not? Will they make the changes? Will they not? We don't know. But what we do know is that we will have Susanna Summers back on to tell us if they did what it looks like and what the future holds. It is always so good to talk to you, Susanna. I mean, the information you just provided us was next level masterclass.

I know the Money Mafia will love it. Make sure to go give us five stars and give a shout out to Susanna. And Susanna, you have pop culture data going on. You have rethink data going on. where can everyone find all the stuff you have going on and tell us what's new in the world of all things, Susanna Summers? Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, mainly on Instagram. We're doing a lot of visual content.

Also launching a substack this year, so going to be providing some extra content, talking podcast episodes, written pieces. So if you guys want to follow, just find me on Instagram and then you can find all of our stuff in there. Okay, go check her out right now. Go follow her. All this information. It's unbelievable. I believe one day all the big media.

companies are going to be hiring you as the head consultant. This information's invaluable. It's fascinating. And it's perfect for trading secrets. Susanna, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. Thank you.