Trading Secrets - 216: ThatFoodieTherapist: Ashley Gersh dives into the business of therapy, the psychology behind break ups and ambiguous loss, and love & money being the two factors of life

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Episode Description: This week, Jason is joined by licensed mental health counselor, entrepreneur, and content creator known by the name ThatFoodieTherapist, Ashley Gersh!  After completing her BS in psychology and Master’s in clinical mental health counseling, Ashley decided to flex her entrepreneurial spirit and start her own practice offering individual and group counseling services, helping navigate the stages of grief triggered by loss of loved ones and ambiguous loss such as breakups, divorce, and estrangement from family. From there, she added the title content creator to her resume by sharing bite sized tips to help heal after toxic relationships through food on her social media accounts.  Ashley breaks down the psychology behind why break ups suck, how emotional pain can trigger the same part of the brain as physical pain, the ability to sit with the discomfort, normalizing feelings of sadness or loneliness, how the stages of grief translating to a reflection of how you are feeling, what ambiguous loss is, the two factors in life you need to exist, and the different types of attachment styles. Ashley also dives into what issues she has seen with people when it comes to love and money, why actions have to follow words, giving yourself the same love and respect you expect from your partner, and the business behind therapy.  Ashley reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!                                                     Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest: Ashley Gersh and www.actionashley.com  Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Trading Secrets Steals & Deals! Robinhood:  The privileges of the very privileged are no longer exclusive. With Robinhood Gold your annual IRA contributions are boosted by 3%, plus you also get 4% APY on your cash in non-retirement accounts - That's over 8x the national savings average. To receive your 3% boost on annual IRA contributions, sign up at robinhood.com/gold ShipSkis:  Skip airport stress and costly airline fees. Just schedule your shipment, attach your label, and ShipSkis handles the rest, delivering your gear directly to your destination. Go to Shipskis.com and use the code TRADINGSECRETS to get 20% off your first shipment and save yourself the hassle this ski season.

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tardik, and welcome to the pre-market trading segment. I'm going to quickly tell you a little bit about our guest today. I'm going to give you a quick financial tip and an update for my personal life. This week we have Ashley Gersh on, that foodie therapist. She is a therapist that goes online and gives therapy tips and tricks while either cooking or eating at a restaurant. So you're mixing the beauty of food and, you know, mental health and growth. And this is almost like a therapy session this episode.

I'm sitting in the hot seat and I feel like I like have a recorded therapy session here. But you also will learn a lot about the industry, you know, the good, the bad, what you should think about when choosing and selecting a therapist, different things that are happening. within the industry, how much specifically I pay for therapy in all the ins and out. So you're going to get some great ideas for yourself. You're going to learn a little bit more about the industry and you're going to hear all from Ashley on all things therapy. This one is different. Now, if you haven't, please make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Hit follow. That helps us significantly. And also go give us five stars. Let us know who you think we should have on the podcast next. and any themes that we should cover.

Now, it's interesting. We didn't talk about this in the recap with David because him and I talked about it after we hung up, but he had told me something that he's working on, which I found really interesting, is he's done with superstitions with hockey. He told me he has over 100 superstitions that he does every single game for good luck.

And he told me some of the things that he's working on with his mental health, and I found that one interesting. He's like it's almost like a little obsessive compulsive of me doing all these little things that I think are going to be for good luck and it's taking so much time and consuming me and I just need to be present. And it's interesting no matter what it is, whether it's superstitions or there's conversations you're going to hear this episode, there's always something that we can work on, that we can grow to be better. It just takes some self-awareness and reflecting in. So I'm really, really excited for you guys to hear this one. A couple ideas I have for you. New Year, the biggest thing I think everyone should look at right now is understanding your budget.

There are so many tools right now with AI that there are no more excuses. You can get an app like Empower or like Mint. You log into your bank accounts. The information is there and AI can help you with everything. They can help you forecast. They can help you with market trends. They can help you with customized budgets. They can help you with investing.

There are so many tools and tricks out there to be able to take your information, understand where the money is going and then make adjustments based on what you're doing and how you're doing it with your behaviors. And that's a big thing I always say. I was on Fox and Friends this past weekend. Understand why you're spending and where you're spending and once you do that, you will be able to fix your spending or make adjustments. Is it social proof? Is it peer pressure? Is it fomo? Is it impulse? Is it seasonality? We know that 36% of Americans took on debt to pay for holiday gifts in December. And 50% of them didn't expect to spend that much. So understand where you're spending and why. And a little update from my personal life is what a weekend.

I've been in Boston this past weekend. I was there for the Bills game. This year is off to a really hot start. I am feeling good. I'm so fucking excited for 2025. It is going to be a great year. And on the JTA, which is coming up here, I'm going to tell you all my different resolutions and all my different themes because there are so many, but I'm just so excited. And next weekend, I will be in Buffalo for the Buffalo Bills playoff game, which I can't wait. A really good fresh week in Nashville this week, getting a lot planned for the next move and everything going on, and then I'll be in Buffalo for the Buffalo Bills game. But enough of the Buffalo Bills, enough of me, enough of financial updates. Let's ring in the episode, one that will help your mental health

and ways. Hopefully you didn't expect. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by a licensed mental health counselor, entrepreneur, and content creator, known by the name that foodie therapist Ashley Gersh. After completing her BS in psychology and master's in clinical mental health counseling, Ashley decided to flex her entrepreneurial spirit and start her own practice offering individual and group counseling services, helping navigate the stages of grief triggered by loss. of loved ones, an ambiguous loss such as breakups, divorce, and estrangement from family. From there, she added the title Content Creator to her resume by sharing bite-sized tips to help heal after toxic relationships through food on her social media accounts. We are going to dive into the career of a licensed mental health counselor, the reasons why

she wanted to start her own practice, and how the combination of her mental health background and content creation skills led her to the success as that foodie therapist. Ashley, thank you so much for being on Trading Secrets. Thank you so much, Jason, for having me here. I'm so excited. There's a lot there. There's a lot that you've done from entrepreneurial work to your specific niche of breakups, divorce, and estrangement from family.

I feel like that is a lot of action there and definitely something that's been connected to my life over the last couple years. So, you know, let's just talk about this. I said it a couple months ago. Breakups suck. They do. You're living in it every single day. When you're dealing with people, regardless of who broke up with who or what happened, why is it that breakups are so brutal? What is it about breakups that just suck? What's like the psychology behind it? I think it's something that's also so relatable. Like you just said, you've experienced it.

You know, I've been both the client and the healer, right? It's something that's worldwide. We experience grief and loss, not just when we lose a little. loved one, but when there is ambiguous loss in our lives, which is grieving someone who is still alive, right? So we experience ambiguous loss in breakups, divorce, estrangement from family, when we no longer speak to people who are still living but aren't necessarily in our lives. And there's this loss of an imagined future that you expected to have with somebody. Right. And there's a lot of layers with grief. You know, you could be grieving the actual, you know,

person, the person who you wanted to be with, right? But maybe it's unrequited love. Or maybe it's you had imagined being partnered at a certain age and starting a family at a certain age. So you're grieving the life you had imagined you would have with this person. Either way, right, social rejection, abandonment loss, emotional pain is felt in our brains actually the same way that we experience physical pain. No way. Yeah. I think it feels like worse, honestly. I feel like Sometimes I'd rather deal with like the physical pain than the mental pain of grieving loss. Sure. There was a study done actually. So people who had gone through a breakup, they didn't want the breakup. They used an fMRI to look at their brains. And they were trying to see if the same parts of the brain lit up when the people who had been broken up with were looking at a picture of their ex-partner.

And what the study found from the imaging was that the same parts of the brain lit up just as if they had a experienced physical pain. Okay. So when in this study, someone that was broken up with sees a picture of their ex and their brain is lighting up in pain from seeing the X the same way that physical pain would light up in your brain. Exactly. Interesting.

So it's someone that's a counselor when you're dealing with these people that are that are experiencing that pain at that level because, you know, this again, this is a business podcast too. So what I've noticed is how some people I know that go through breakups, they actually like thrive in their professional life. They thrive because it's a distraction. They can channel their energy. They've learned to cope maybe in healthier ways because they're used to trauma. Me personally, like when I'm dealing with the breakup, I, I like paralyzed. I can't think about anything other than the person. I don't want to work. I have no creative energy.

I'm just like, I'm just like a puddle. I just like suck. And it takes time and you go through the grieving process, which we'll talk about. Let's start with this. When you're seeing people experience this type of pain, that even feels like physical pain, how are you helping them through

so they could still function in all areas of their life? Not only heal personally, but still function in business, still show up as a mother or a father or brother or partner or whatever it is that they're going through. What advice do you give? That's such a great question. A lot of people want the pain to go away.

Yeah, of course. Right? Even you just said, you're like, I throw myself into work. People will distract themselves. And there are healthy distractions and there are unhealthy distractions. What would you define healthy versus unhealthy? Well, is it harming you, right? Are you drinking and engaging in like maladaptive coping skills, right?

So adaptive coping skills would be things that are healthy for you, but coping skills that are unhealthy for you, right? Are you engaging in? in unprotected sex? Are you engaging in drinking and doing this to the point where it's unsafe for you? Okay. Sometimes I think I numb through work. I will work more because it's a numbing mechanism of avoidance of feelings. I don't like the feeling of feeling sad. That doesn't seem healthy, though. Well, one, that's great awareness. You're like, I know I know I do this and it's not working for me. Actually, is it working for you? I mean, it's working. I feel like I'm a

the therapy session. Like work, I guess, is going well. But then I think what happens is I spin the wheels to distract myself from the pain I'm feeling, which isn't great. What is your therapist tell you? My therapist tells me my biggest issue is sitting in feelings, especially with this last breakup and my other one too, the idea of just like sitting in the feeling, getting very comfortable with the uncomfortable. Exactly. So, and that's really, really, really common. The majority of people's attachment in society is avoidant. Most people are avoidant. However, you're going to live a life based on the amount that your nervous system is willing to tolerate. So it's not about trying to make the pain and sadness go away because if you weren't

experiencing grief, we would have to strip you of your love. All the love that you can feel in life, that would have to be gone in order for you not to feel any pain. And we would just be AI robots walking around, right? So life is about increasing your tolerance and your ability to sit with the discomfort. So imagine you're in this very, very tiny coat closet. And the coats in this closet are grief and pain and the trauma that you've experienced and you open this tiny closet and you just bump into everything and it's overwhelming. So you slam the door shut. Yeah. Life is about building that closet so that it's a bigger closet. So when you step into it, you're not just bumping into everything. Every time you open it, you have a

tolerance. You can walk in and out and still get the clothes that you need from that closet. That's a good analogy. It's a really good one. I do find that it sucks. It really sucks. But the steps forward, once you have grieved properly, you feel a little bit like lighter. I feel like I'm learning more. I feel like hitting rock bottom allows me to have depths. never had before. And as much as it sucks, I would rather live a life of like feeling that pain, knowing that pain and developing as a human to impact not only myself, but others, because I went through that pain. And I feel like with breakups, it's like you just got it, you got to go through it. You got to feel it. You have to not distract yourself with especially unhealthy

behaviors, like jumping into another relationship or, you know, drinking too much or partying too much or whatever it might be and just understand what it is, what you feel, how you're feeling it, and why it makes you feel that way. One thing my therapist told me that was interesting. And it again, it connects to the business side of this podcast too is I was, especially right after the breakup, I told you that I was sorry, I couldn't think of anything else.

I couldn't. And she asked me a question, what's interesting? She goes, when are you feeling like you're loneliest or you're saddest or you're having these racing thoughts? And instantly, I was like morning and night. It's always morning and night. And she told me about this clock we have. And she talked a little bit about the fact that, you know, if you look at your routine and

you look at your history of dating, when are you spending the most time with that person? And I'm like, always morning and night. Because my whole life I've always been busy during the day. And so it's interesting that we have these clocks that have been working for as many years we've been around and the absence of something that was always there, especially at a certain time of the day can even have a big impact on us, which is interesting. Absolutely. As humans, we are hardwired for safety, right?

So if at those points of the day, you were typically talking to your girlfriend, right? And that is stripped from you. Think about, like, losing a loved one, right? That is, they're gone. You would normally call them on the phone or tell them something exciting, just like you would a girlfriend. You'd call them on the phone or you'd tell them something exciting happened. And that is gone.

Right? So your sense of safety has been stripped. Your need for clarity, predictability, stability, these are all things that we need to feel safe. And so that is just completely ripped from you at the times when you would typically have that clarity and safety from someone. Yeah. So it's like abandonment, right? That person that you would go to who would be there for you and the times that you would typically talk to them, spend time with them, be with them is now gone. So that sense of safety is gone. Yeah. And now you feel lost or confused or abandoned, right?

It's a feeling of loneliness that people deal with when you're grieving. And so in breakups or divorce or even estrangement from family, right? Yeah. If you know that the connection is no longer good for you or your needs weren't being met, right? It was no longer compatible for whatever reason. It's then working on being able to trust yourself. that you can still meet those needs, even if someone else can't. So even in that loneliness, it's expanding your ability to sit with that grief,

letting yourself know, like, I don't need to feel okay right now. Maybe I actually just need to let myself feel because having compassion for yourself is saying, there's nothing wrong with me for feeling sad. There's nothing wrong with me for feeling lonely. Like, this is so normal. We all want that safety and love. Yeah. Is that the same if you feel like your needs aren't being met

and you had to walk away from it, these are the things you should think. Is it the same if it's the opposite? It's that you thought your needs are being met. You were into it you were broken up with. Is it the same? Does that hold true? Well, sure. You can't be in a relationship with somebody who doesn't want to be there.

Yeah, that's like the old adage, eh? So your needs weren't being met because they weren't the ones who could meet them. True. And I feel like life's about like decision and choices. And if you're not chosen, then you have to understand that. especially if you're not chosen right so that's where a lot of people gets their worthiness gets stuck right so people who are ghosted people who get broken up with some people are trying to soothe themselves by chasing after that person right but what's happening there is that most of the time people will feel like their worth is getting stuck when they're not getting that validation from the person that they're seeking it from okay there's an attachment style you might have to someone right or attachment in some form tell me where I'm off here okay and that person is then gone from your life and what I'll notice is even work and stuff like my confidence

like especially when it just happens your confidence goes but I feel like when you have an attachment to someone and that attachment's gone I feel like losing confidence is a very normal thing to go through very normal and though I'm going to tie this into money right so So say we have a $100 bill. Say someone takes that $100 bill, they throw it on the ground, they step on it, they crumple it up. Yeah. It, you know, it's value remains the same.

But think about that happening to a person, right? They get unseen or they get mistreated. There's unfairness. It's not going to feel good, but their value still remains the same, even if that other person couldn't see it. That makes perfect sense. Makes perfect sense. So you just got to take that $100 bill, clean it off and get back on your

feet. Right. Even if someone decides not to pursue you, right? Or even if they do decide to pursue you, it doesn't define your sense of worthiness. All right. What tips do you give someone if you're going through a breakup and the other person is on your mind a lot? Like, you're just thinking about them a lot. Or again, you see something and it reminds you of them. Like, what are some things to do in those? Even if you're at work, you're at a work meeting and someone says something like them and you're like, oh my God, shit. What is like the healthy way to deal with that? And what is that, by the way? Is there a name for that? Like when you're thinking about something over and over again? So ruminating. A lot of times people will be like ruminating, right?

Like there's there's a loss. There's, you don't have a sense of clarity or safety, right? There's ambiguity. There's maybe a lack of closure or you're grieving, right? Maybe you're in denial that the relationship ended and so you're constantly thinking about it. Or if you're in the bargaining stage of grief, that could be overthinking in the sense of saying to yourself, well, if I had just gone to that party, maybe we would have still been together. or if we had one more conversation, maybe things would be different, right? And so what's happening there is

it's another way to avoid sitting in the pain, right? Bargaining is. Bargaining and denial. They're both ways to avoid... The pain of what the reality is. Exactly. When you're going through the grieving process, there are stages, right?

And so isn't the first stage is denial, right? So the stages are a reflection of how you're feeling and how your feeling can change in any given moment of time. Right. denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. You might just even sitting here talking about your past relationships, you might be shifting from like, you know, bargaining to acceptance to depression, right? Just thinking of different scenarios that make you feel a type of way about what happened. Like you're bouncing through the stages. Exactly. Interesting. There's also my understanding

something called complicated grief. So I think about the dog situation. I no longer have the dogs. Lost dogs have gone to therapy immensely and intensely for it. And I've been told it's considered complicated grief where you're grieving something, I guess it's kind of like a relationship too. You're grieving something that actually is still alive. That's ambiguous loss. That's what ambiguous loss is. Yes. Okay. And anyone out there that's listening to this that is dealing with any kind of ambiguous loss or complicated grief, what type of advice do you have for them? The same thing, right? Let yourself feel it. Build out that coat closet so that it's bigger so that you can tolerate the pain because it's not about making the pain go away.

My business mentor, Wyndon Roshy, talks about love and money in these two ways. We have two factors in life that we need in order to live a healthy and sustained life. And these two factors exist before we're born, when we're born, and after we die. And that's love and money. Really? Mm-hmm. We need love and money in order to live a healthy life on this planet. This is a great tie into the podcast.

I obviously wrote a book called Talk Money to Me, the idea of financial transparency. When you're working with divorces or estrangement from family or relationship struggles, I have to imagine, obviously love is an issue. But how does money tie into things that you've seen? And what advice do you have for people from a mental health counselor on just managing that very complicated situation? I mean, all the stats are there. 50% of couples don't talk about it.

those that do talk about it, it creates material tension in the relationship. Divorce rate is high because of money issues. There's money and fidelity of cheating and lying and stealing through money. There's money issues with families that are connected to individuals. I mean, it goes on and on. I mean, what type of advice do you have in that scenario? It's very much like how you would talk to someone about if you're dating, right? So think about your attachment style, right?

Is it secure, anxious, avoidant, disorganized. Wait, real quick. What is attachment style exactly? So the attachment theory itself is based off, by the time you're 18 months old, you have a certain attachment to your caregivers. So that could be like a secure attachment. You're sat when they leave. You're happy when they return. Anxious.

You're really anxious when they leave and it's hard to soothe yourself when they come back. Avoidant is just kind of like you don't even care if they're there or gone and disorganized is that frantic push and pull, which is what we find in a lot of like today's dating society and dating culture. Yeah. Is this disorganized, like, give me boyfriend, girlfriend, commitment without actually being my boyfriend or girlfriend. I don't know why my brain immediately went to dogs. Like, I feel like when dogs lose attachment, or let's just say their mom or dad goes to work,

I feel like every dog kind of handles that different. Some are like, I'm going to sit in the crate and pout. Some are going to bite everything and eat everything, and the magazines are going to ripped up. Some just go crazy. Some pee everywhere. As humans, we all have attachment styles to caregivers. so mom, dad, or significant other.

And then how we react when those attachments are threatened is what is our attachment style. Yes, but your attachment to mom, dad, or caregiver, right, influences the choices that you make with your partners. You know, like how, like, think about the family that you grew up in and what you, what you learned was, did chaos equal closeness? Is that the type of partner that you're also ending up with? And the same thing goes for money, right? So like, do you have a safe relationship to money?

Is there predictability and clarity and safety? Or do you find that when you're dating that money is coming up in the conversation a lot because it's something that you don't already have a safe relationship with? Interesting. So what are some of the biggest issues you see with money and love and people that you've worked with or studying that you've done? Like what are some of the things, maybe some of the challenges that arise or maybe where couples miss the most when it comes to money and love? What does what does that look like?

I think it looks a lot like people tying their sense of self-worth in regards to the money that they make or don't make and not impacting the relationship dynamic. Yeah. So some people, if you have money becoming a power hierarchy between people. Yeah. Say one partner who makes less than the other is like, well, I'm doing all the invisible labor, which would be maybe like taking care of the kids or doing the laundry or cooking and cleaning and taking care of all the household chores. And they're minimizing their milestones or celebrations, and maybe they're also working. You know, they're minimizing the good things happening and they're also maybe not talking about their struggles because they're like, oh, it's not as important as my partners who's making

more money than I am. Interesting. So what a lot of relationships are doing are they're allowing. money to create a value proposition in the relationship and then they're leveraging money as a tool for worth, right? Someone makes the money, therefore they feel as though they have like leverage and power to use it in a toxic way. Which creates a power imbalance, whether it's consciously or unconsciously. Yeah. And if you just look at work as work, then you deconstruct and you get rid of the power hierarchy. Exactly. I want to go back to something you said that I think is really

important that money also can come into play when looking for a partner because if you think about what your attachment was to money, right? Did you have a relationship to money always through your parents? Are you then looking for a partner who then is also managing your money or making money decisions for you? Right. Interesting. Are you looking for your relationship to money to still be through a third party? Like analyzing what is your relationship with money? Right. Right. The way that your family managed money, talked about money, or maybe didn't talk about money, is going to impact your relationship with your partner and how you approach them or how you date or how you find someone that's compatible, right? And what's familiar to us isn't always what's healthiest for

us. Remember about the study with the brain, people who felt pain. Our brains are always trying to protect us from pain. So if it's saying, okay, well, I associate, you know, money with chaos, right? Or it's always this ambiguous thing to me. Someone who manages the finances and the relationship and you have no control over it, right? Or no say or it's just this ambiguous thing. That might actually feel safe, but it's just maybe another way to avoid your relationship with money. And if that familiarity, right, feels safe. But sometimes what feels uncomfortable isn't always bad for us. It's just something we're not familiar with. So finding a partner where you know, they're not managing your money might feel unsafe at first because you didn't grow up like that.

But that doesn't mean it's unhealthy. So it's a lot of analyzing what the relationship is to money or love and seeing how we're reacting. And then based on our reaction kind of analyzing the why there and understanding what is the attachment with it from like day one to now? What did you see from your parents? How did it impact you? And what does it mean to you today? Uh-huh, especially when it comes to emotional safety, right? What you need for a loving, healthy relationship.

You know, you can kind of look back and say, okay, well, growing up, did I learn that, you know, having money came at the cost of my emotional safety? Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. So are you then with this person or dating because they provide the money, but you're actually not having a need met, which is emotional safety? Right. You know, that could be something that people see, too. Let's talk a little bit about this idea of, I'm looking at my hands, I got calluses on them.

right you work out you hit the hit the weights and then you build calluses and i think about relationships and a lot of this topic and you go through a breakup you get your heartbroken what is your take as a mental health counselor on the idea of just not becoming callous and still putting yourself out there when maybe you've been given so many reason to rethink that oh yeah vulnerability is such a courageous thing anyone who's dating should be proud of themselves for putting themselves out there after any type of heartbreak. Interesting. It's a lot of compassion that you need to have for yourself.

Right. Right. Or for anyone in the dating pool. Because you are continuously over and over again going to experience these losses. Right. Right. And it's normal to think about your future with someone because how else do you build a life with them?

You want to kind of think about what your life could be like together. Yeah. Totally. And so you might do that, right? But in order to keep doing that, right, and not get bitter, it comes also back to trusting yourself, right? Like if you're really anxious and dating, you might not be enjoying yourself because you're ruminating, you're overthinking. Right. You're not present on the date.

And that comes back to the nervous system, right? Like increasing your capacity to feel maybe rejected. You know, no one is exempt from feeling hurt when putting themselves out there. You expose yourself to the possibility of failure or heartbreak or reject. So it's just kind of checking in on those realistic expectations that you're going to go through a few thoughtful tries in order to find something that you're like a relationship that that meets your needs and someone that you're compatible with. I feel like the idea of trusting people's words to me like I don't know if it exists anymore in relationships because I've been told so much in the opposite happens. And I'm like now in my brain I'm just like actions will speak not words. I mean what's your take on that? 100%.

If there are words, their actions always have to follow up. Yeah. Because you can't have commitment from somebody without that consistency. Sure. Then it's that you have that disorganized, you know, anxious feeling, right? Because it's this push and pull. It's confusing. And when we don't, when we have that confusion, we don't have the safety and stability

and predictability we need for emotional safety. Makes sense. Makes sense. All right. When you're working with a lot of these people that are going through divorce, and breakups. What do you think, like if you had to write a book, what do you think are some of the biggest reasons why relationships end? I think it's people not working on their own insecurities and family childhood wounds that they bring to the table in that relationship.

It's a lack of awareness and willing to work on it. Okay. That's a big one. That's my food for thought. That is your food for thought. The therapist foodie. And this also, you know, if we think about jobs, right, job loss in the job market, a lot of the same things. that we're talking about can be applied to anybody experiencing a job loss. It's true because you're grieving. Exactly. And you have a lot, you have even more of a lost sense of safety. If you think about like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, money gives you a sense of safety because

you need money to survive. What is Mazzo's hierarchy of needs? Maslow's hierarchy of needs is the idea that like your basic needs are met first, right? Like shelter, food, water. You can't have those things without money. Interesting. So if you lose a job, job, right? Your sense of income, especially if you're not saving, drops. So remember, we need

safety and or otherwise we're just in survival mode. Right. Okay. Interesting. That makes perfect sense. And I remember my dad lost his job 30 plus years with the company and was let go. And I remember him just being like, he was really going through it. And I was like, oh, it's a job. Like, it's all good. He's like, no, it's more than that. And it's interesting to see whether it's love, whether it's work, whether it's money, this grieving process is pretty consistent with that. Like, that's a fascinating thing. One thing I want to talk about is, I think this, especially to my listeners when it comes to work, maybe it's in relationships, maybe it's presentation, maybe it's your end here

because annual reviews. The idea of protesting for yourself is something I struggle with, especially like with this whole public stuff, like dealing with breakups in the public light. I just kind of keep my mouth shut and put my head down. but like what is your take from a from a mental health counselor of the idea of protesting for yourself when do you know when when when do you know how whether it's at work or it's in a relationship what are the healthy ways to do it just the concept of speaking up for yourself what's what's your take on it interesting question I think a lot of people have to navigate that in their workplace

when there is probably a lot of injustices but also in relationships when you want to set you know healthy boundaries for yourself for what makes you feel safe. Yeah, yeah. I think speaking up for yourself, it really depends on the context, right? Like, are you wanting to speak up for yourself because you just got broken up with and you're feeling like you're actually trying to, like, regulate yourself by having them be a witness to your pain and validating that? Or are you speaking up for yourself because you are trying to show,

you're trying to teach someone what it is that you need in order to feel safe in the environment that you're in with them. Hmm. Okay. So it's identifying what is it that you're protesting for in the why? And then if it makes sense or not based on that. Yeah. And I always find that like when it comes to anything like that,

a work fight or a personal fight or just any type of conflict, I always feel like let the dust settle first. Like just like take a breather, take a walk, take five minutes, go ground yourself, whatever you've got to do. Let the dust settle. And then once the dust is settled, then go in and attack it with. logic as opposed to emotion. I feel like that's like a healthy thing to do, right? 100%. You're increasing, you're expanding the coat closet, right? Right. Because by doing that,

you're self-regulating. Yeah. And then you're able to speak for the part of you that's maybe angry or sad or misunderstood rather than from that part of you. And that might come out as like yelling when you actually want to be heard and yelling isn't the best way to be heard. So expanding the coat closet for people at home is the idea of creating. space in what feels like chaos to you, right? Yes. So you're in this small client. It's finding ways to like, I don't know, I'm imagining like you're in a jail cell and

like you're tied in there and then it's like, okay, you got to, you got to like break the walls down a little bit. You got to like create more space in there. But like that's what you're saying with the closet. Create more space so that you can live in a state of understanding your traumas because understanding them will allow you to grow. Understanding, but more so the ability to regulate yourself. and tolerate them because life isn't about making the pain

and trauma and sadness and loneliness go away. It's all part of being human, right? These are normal human emotions you're experiencing because of something that happened to you. Right? Yeah. So it's about increasing your tolerance of those experiences rather than trying to make them completely disappear.

And as you do those home renovations, right? Yeah. You expand the coat closet by having more tools in your toolbox to tolerate that. So when those things happen, it shakes up your sense of safety because your sense of predictability and stability, like when your dad lost his job or when there's a loss, right, of any kind, your sense of safety, what you expect to happen is now gone. Okay. Interesting.

So you have to then have the tools to cope with that. And that comes from knowing that you can meet your needs and that you trust yourself to get those needs met. I love it. I think that's great advice for anyone, whether it has to do with dealing with. with a relationship, a breakup, work, all the things. Take that closet, make it bigger, create that space. I think that that's really important.

What would you say? Let's kind of like finish this breakup talk with number one mistake. What do you think the biggest mistake you see people make in relationships? Biggest mistake. Probably a lack of self-regulation. Okay. And because their insecurities are going to come up. And if they don't know how to regulate themselves, right, to then have a conversation

with their partner, maybe a compassionate conversation. Okay. Then it's going to lead to a lot more misunderstandings than they probably intend to. Makes sense. All right. How about those that are single out there that are dating right now? What are like, what's a good question you would ask someone that you're like going on a date with to like see if there's compatibility or maybe understand like some of the things

that you could proactively get ahead of? What's a good question out there? I think it's more asking themselves, right? If you know what kind of partner you're looking for and you know what you're relationship values are, right? Which could be things like playfulness, loyalty, honesty, responsibility, like lots of different things. If you know what those things are, are you being that person first? Are you showing yourself the same love and validation and compassion and empathy to yourself that you want your partner to also give to you? That makes sense. Okay. That's a good

answer. All right, let's talk trading secrets to talk a little money here. So when I go therapy, it's $150 for 60 minutes, $225 for 90 minutes. I've talked to some friends in L.A. and New York, I tell them those numbers, and they're like, that's unbelievable. I tell some of those people back home in Buffalo, they're like, you're out of your damn mind. How are you spending that much? You need to go to therapy for how much you're spending on therapy. What's your take on the business side of therapy? Like if someone is considering working with a therapist, what are some questions they should ask? What should they expect to pay? Just the overall health of the business.

Like, give us some insight on the business of counseling, therapy, psychology. What do you got? The business of therapy is so complicated because of health care. Okay. So we have a lot of people who want to use insurances, right, so that it's a cheaper copay for them, which totally makes sense. But because of that strategy and that dynamic, the health care system has put the responsibility of the provider, right, the therapist, to them be totally accessible to all

these people without paying them the appropriate pay that they need to survive. Okay, because every therapist I've ever worked with ever is private pay. And so the reason that their private pay is because the health insurance co-pays does not suffice for what they would have to do to live. Exactly. Interesting. So, I mean, like, have you ever seen, like, I don't think I've ever come across therapists that's not private pay. Yeah. So, I mean, I know plenty of both. Okay. But the people, it's more common that the people who are taking insurance are probably more burnt out because they're having to see a higher amount of people in their caseload in order to make the same amount of money that a self-pay private practice clinician is seeing.

Interesting. Right? So if you think about, again, like getting your needs met, like essentially the health care system is like dictating how much money you are getting and they're telling you like, well, if you need this to survive, you're going to have to see this many clients. But that's not right. No one should be telling you how much money you need in order to survive. Right. Interesting. Right.

What's the solution there? Well, I mean, I don't know. That's a really, really big question. That's like a systemic issue. But if you think about it, right, like a healthy relationship consists of self-care and boundaries. So if you are just giving, giving, giving, it's normal to also want to receive. So as a therapist, there's a lot of stigma around like, oh, I'm not paying my therapist that much money. or I'm not going to, you know, I don't want to pay, you know, this amount in order to receive therapy, right?

But in order to have that healthy dynamic, even between the therapist and the client, you're going to want to see a therapist who's not like hypervigilant just trying to survive. Right, not burnt out themselves. Exactly. So actually paying them what they need in order to survive makes sense for the model, the business model for a therapist to charge what they need in order to provide you the best, care possible. Fascinating. It comes down to cost and quality, like everything, right? When I tell you 150 bucks for 60 minutes, what's your initial reaction? Like average. Okay. So in line. Yeah.

That makes sense. Totally. It really depends on like. Buck 50 a minute. It's like a little bit deeper than that. Every therapist has a, they live in a different area where they might need a different amount of money to survive. Sure. Cost of living. Yeah. Exactly. Cost of living. They also might have different specialties so they might be needing different trainings sure and stuff right so the people who have judgments on that are making a really generalized assumption that's a good point and every therapist is different maybe one therapist lives alone or has supply demand too like I know it took me forever to get into this and I love her I mean not for me it is the easiest money I've ever spent my life like because it is it's I've never made a better investment in myself than therapy I don't even

blink. I get excited to pay her. I don't even think twice. We love that. So, and I mean that. That's truly, that's truly it. I could keep going in a million different directions. It's interesting to talk about the mental health side of things as it connects to work, grieving, loss relationships. I always looked at my life like a professional silo, a financial silo, and a personal silo. And I quickly learned there is no such thing. All of those coexist as one. Like they're all bleating. And this just justifies all that. Especially with both of us being business owners and entrepreneurs are we in our relationship to money are we creating a business that can sustain our lives or is it an unhealthy power and balance dynamic that we have with money that we're

working working working and not getting money to sustain our lives exactly exactly which then connects to what we're doing and how we're showing up in relationships and in life and in work and all the things they all tie together exactly right well I could talk to you for another hour about all your entrepreneurial activity might have to have a part two at some point but for right now Ashley, we got to get your trading secret. So something very unique to your experience. Can't learn from a professor. Can't learn on a TikTok tutorial. Maybe it's your TikTok tutorial. They can, but a trading secret from you, Ashley, what can you leave us with? The first thing is finding the right therapist is like dating. Okay.

Sometimes it'll take a few thoughtful tries to maybe talk to different therapists, see which one you're compatible with, which one's a good fit, which one you feel like is relatable or understands you, right? Because that brings safety. And the second one is once you find that therapist, don't fall trap to the flight to health. That means the idea that you think you're fully healed after maybe one to three sessions because you got a lot of insider tools and then you think everything is so much better. Give yourself time and know. It takes years.

Yes. Years. Yes. Yeah. But so many people think that a couple sessions, right? We'll do it. But it's all of the things that even we just talked about. it takes a lot of time to peel back the layers to unlearn the things that you learned when you were earlier that have gotten you to where you're at today.

And if you want to be dating someone differently or having different financial success in your life, right, really unpack those layers to understand how you got there. So you can start learning different ways to make decisions for yourself that get you to where you want to go. It makes perfect sense. I remember when I first started therapy, I went for three months, thought I had it all figured out. I went cold for about a year and everything unraveled. Like everything unraveled. And I called her back. I'm like, her name's Jiffie.

Jiffie, I need you and I need you now. And from that point on, that's probably 2021. I go at a minimum once a month. And then when I'm dealing with some serious stuff, which has been a lot the last couple of years, usually like every couple weeks. Can you give from experience? How has therapy helped you process your breakup?

Oh, in every single way possible. Like I know that like emotions and pain are hard for me. I don't like to feel sad. I don't like to feel lonely. And so what I'll do is I'll numb it and I'll usually numb it in productive ways. I'll numb it through working out. I'll numb it through work. But that just doesn't heal in any way.

I also have learned a lot about the fact that I put up blinders. I live in denial of the reality. There will be red flags that happen or there will be things that are going on in a relationship and I'll always like an eternal optimist always try and find the good of it and if I see the bad I'll just I'll like brush it under the rug because part of me is like a little bit of a hopeless romantic and then what happens is those things that were brushed under the rug those things that like you just kind of ignored they come to fruition and then they come to fruition in a hard way and when you least expect it so a lot of it's been sit in the feelings feel the shit out of your

feelings like feel them let it go you got to name it you got to drain it there's no way to heal otherwise and moving forward don't put up blinders to things that are very very real and that's something unfortunately I've done and I've repeated those behaviors and yeah I've learned a lot and I got to keep learning but the one thing I won't do is I'm going to keep stepping it like I know it's really tough when you're in the private and public light and in both cases being the public light you're going to get a lot of noise and there's been a lot of noise out there especially in the last breakup and there was there's not one i haven't seen one person that's guessed it right of all the thousands of things i've seen and i also recognize i get a little triggered

by being mislabeled but you know it's normal no one likes to be misunderstood yeah yeah but then just kind of like sitting with that recognizing what it is and i think the idea of grieving healing and understanding things both privately and publicly which are totally different and protecting your peace and making sure that the things that don't, you know, like you don't, not everyone needs to know everything, you know. And so I think I struggle with the protesting thing too, but I've learned a lot, Ashley, and I'm still learning, and I'm still learning. Next week, I got a 90-minute session. So I'm healing, I'm growing. We are getting there. And hopefully anyone that listens to this podcast is feeling a little bit just insightful as to an okay.

like it's okay to not be okay and it's okay to understand how personal things impact your professional things and the best thing to do is be self-aware analyze it and then work with professionals to help you grow so ashley where can everyone find everything you have going on your social media your entrepreneurial activities give everyone the plug where they can go with questions thoughts or anything yes so they can go to my website if they're seeking help for therapy and if they're Florida resident. They can go to www.gionashley.com where I help people take action on their healing journey.

Cool. And they can also find me on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram at That Foodie Therapist, where I give people food for thought on different mental health topics, specifically relationships and lots of bite-sized tips with good food. Bite-sized tips with good food. We're actually going to record a couple of those today. So definitely go check out, Ashley, see

what she has to say and all the help. It's pretty cool when you can mix in food and therapy. That is a power combo right there. Ashley, thank you so much for me on this episode, Traying Secrets. Thank you so much for having me. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell with the what-it-only. David Ardoin, the Curious Canadian, on the Food Therapist episode. David, this was a good one. It was a deep one. We got into the weeds here. I do want to preface. I did say this in the intro. We recorded this quite some time ago.

So I just want to give some people perspective and the fact of timing. This certainly wasn't yesterday but this was a great episode and it was uh one where i learned a lot and we talked about it all and uh probably a good little teaser into jason tells all uh for what's coming down the road here with trading secrets but david what do you think and what you think of the episode yeah you know i love deep this was deep it was almost jay it was like flying the wall in a therapy session for you let me just uh throw that one out there so um an interesting take to see kind of what you've been through in the last year like you said a nice little teaser for jt a but i do have a question, okay? We're recording this. It's January 5th. We are in the thick of things

when it comes to resolutions. We're in the thick of things when it comes to starting the new year right. You give me a food therapist at that foodie therapist. I am thinking she's going to teach me how to hypnotize myself so I don't get into the food that I need a healthier relationship with food. I was here for the food contact, the therapist contact, the self-help when it comes to food content. I didn't get the food content. I got a lot of the good things that we'll touch on. But was that by plan? Were you surprised by that? Tell me, where was the food and the foodie therapist? That's a lot. David's like, it's a new year, new me. I want to shed a couple pounds and rethink about how I think about food. Tell me more. Yes. You know, her whole,

her whole schick on, on Instagram is that she gives therapy advice while cooking or while eating or while at a restaurant. Oh, okay. So that's her schick. It's like combining the food with the therapy. It's not like she's giving advice on the therapy of one consuming food or anything like that. Okay. That makes perfect sense. So I got to go check her out at that foodie therapist. Maybe she'll calm me down as she's cooking a meal or she's eating something and I'm not going to get triggered by wanting to eat something. I'm going to listen to some life advice to be better for me.

You're saying that's the direction I got to take this, right? Exactly. That's exactly the direction you got to take it. When you listen to this, though, was there anything that caught your eye or any other questions you have as you're kind of thinking through that? I'm going to stick at the core of this pod. I'm going to talk money. You were kind enough to, you were the one almost in the hot seat. You were sharing numbers.

She wasn't sharing numbers. You were sharing numbers. You said your therapy costs $150 for 60 minutes, $2.25 for 90. You had mentioned some people in Buffalo think you're crazy for spending that much. You had mentioned some people in New York City think that that's a steal. My question to you, how much do you spend on therapy in 2024? It's got to be, I don't have the exact number I mean, but it's probably around. it's probably around three grand okay three grand yeah yeah that's yeah that kind of look at it like

almost like obviously it's therapy but I also look at it like kind of like a life coach like every time I come out of that therapy session I feel like I'm a better headspace for myself for work for everything so I almost look at like a life coach too I I was expecting way more I don't know what that says about me and how I observe your needs in 2024 but well I guess so like one hour session is a buck 50 yeah and a 90 minute session is 225 yeah and i usually go i'd probably on average like one every two three weeks but i fair chirp david fair shit no chirp like you said hey easiest money you've ever spent in your life yeah was the therapy you don't think twice when you do it let me throw a little curveball at you you say you spent three grand what is something else that

you've spent three grand on that if a listener maybe is spending that three grand on that they could get triple the impact on therapy. Oh, I mean, by far, where I spent way too much money this year, and we'll talk about the JTA, we'll be restaurants and, like, going out for drinks and bites. I mean, an exorbitant amount of money in the markup and everything else, and yeah, there are definitely

places that I could have pulled back to justify that expense. That is for damn sure. When I see, like, if that number's around 3,000 or whatever, to me, It's like that is the best money I could ever spend, like I said in the episode. And I'll say this to you going out and on drinks or cocktails or that. At least you're out and being social. I was going to say my biggest regret is my DoorDash bill. My DoorDash bill, if I had a Spotify wrapped on DoorDash,

I would need a real food therapist to talk me off the ledge for how much money that I'm spending on DoorDash. And I'm sitting at my home. I'm not even getting the social aspect that you're getting. honestly i am going to literally call my bluff you are a hundred percent right my uber eats bill off the charts and the other thing too is when i'm eating uber eats it's probably usually not the right time or the healthiest it's always the late-night food and i over order or i'll order and fall asleep so that is definitely one area that i'm like no no no i got to step i got to step it up for 2025 and i'm going to agree with you on that but i also want you to know that your superpower

Jason is your DoorDash capabilities. If I'm with you one time a year, you're my guy. I'm passing the phone to Jason. He's putting in the DoorDash order. He's ordering from four different places. He's hitting all the touches. He's got the sweet, the salty. He's got the cuisines.

He's the guy. So that might be your award in 2024 for me is friend with the most elite DoorDash order. So don't be too hard to yourself with that. I will say, you give me Uber rates or DoorDash at late night. and I'm coming back with the best order, probably for multiple places. So that is a super positive. You're right.

All right. We'll take the good with the bad on that one. That's for sure. And she said in her trading secret, finding the right therapist is like dating. It may take a few tries, but once you found one, you know, you'll know.

She also said, don't think you figured it out in a couple sessions and then think you don't need it anymore. My question to you is, do you agree with that? Because I hear that, and I'm like, well, of course a therapist is going to say,

don't think you figure it out, because they want you to. keep coming back because it's a service industry and that's their profession and they need to make money from it. So from your experience, what side do you err on? Well, listen, a good therapist is going to know what type of mode you're in. Like there are times when I was in what like Jiffie would call is crisis mode and she knew that I would have to be in there once a week or once every other week and or she would have to literally be on call 24-7 if something came up. And then she knows where I'm in modes like right now where I'm not

in crisis mode at all and you know she'll suggest okay let's do 60 minutes once a month you know like she'll actually suggest how long and when based on how things are going and then of course you always have the ultimate say as a consumer so i don't i don't subscribe to the idea that therapists are in this strategy of you know wanting to make sure they get you back and put you in a cycle um if so that's a really toxic therapist and i don't think most therapists are in this business to be making a killing. Right. You know, I think they make a good living.

I think it's comfortable, especially if you're private pay, which is something that we talked about in this episode. But I don't think people are in this industry to really be making big bucks. I think they're in this industry to be making a really big impact. No, that makes sense. And like you said, the fact that she knows when you're in crisis mode and she's going to give you the attention and not just kind of, you know, push you off because you might be taking it more time in her schedule.

But then when you're not in crisis mode, she still wants you to be able to check in and like a lot of things self-regulate that was mentioned in the podcast. So I think that's good. One thing that Ashley did mention in this is, and that was pretty unique to me and it was right on theme for the podcast. She was very, let's say not shy about talking about money and the importance of money to the needs of what it takes to be healthy and successful. One thing that she said is the two things you need when you need before you're born, when you're born, and when you're die is love and money and what she said that I was taking a back of hair but then she also talked about tell me more then she also talked about Maslow's hierarchy of needs really just in life you need shelter food and water and all those things you need money to buy them um I just thought that that was

really interesting that she was really kind of bold about saying like let's not be shy about how important money is in our lives it is a need it is not something that you can be turned or shy away from her be really talked out of the importance of needing it. I just thought that that was really important coming from her, who looks like really takes a really well-rounded approach to help her clients and different things to be so adamant about that one topic of money and tying into such important things in terms of birth and death and shelter and food and water a lot of things sometimes we take for granted, maybe, maybe I take for granted,

but I just kind of was, you know, maybe impressed, maybe taken back me. I don't know what I was. I was just, I didn't expect her to be so adamant about that topic throughout the, throughout the podcast, so many different things. When you say taking it back, though, like, define that. What do you mean taking it back? No, I don't know. I just feel like, maybe sometimes there, I'm not expecting therapists, maybe to be so, like,

maybe I'm expecting them to be more like, I'm just going to kind of go around the edges here and make everything feel warm and cozy and maybe not be so harsh, but she was like, no, no, no, love and money, not just love. Like, the old song, was a Beatles song? All you need is love. like no her song is all you need is love and money don't get it twisted um and it just it's maybe it's common sense but i don't know maybe i'm just on to maybe i wasn't expecting uh her to her to her to really beat that drum yeah i mean one of the things i find interesting about therapists that i've

talked to is actually therapists are very very direct right because like their their form of understanding communication is very healthy they're not worried about what you think or they're not trying to adjust or customize uh you know they're they're telling you how they feel it truly is, right? And they set strong boundaries and teach you to do that. So, um, interesting take. Yeah. I mean, obviously it's good to talk about these things, right? In this, in this episode, it's perfect for trading secrets because we are talking about our feelings, but we're also talking about the impact of this industry. And we're also talking about the money aspect of, of life with love and mental health. And so there's so many different moving components with it.

And it is, of course, an industry that is very prevalent. It was fascinating to hear her take a little bit on where some of the issues are with this industry and getting people the right help that need it, those that can't afford it, those that don't have the ability or cash flow to pay someone private pay, but the deep need for it in this country, especially when we look at just how prevalent mental health is and then the impact that's having in our communities for those that go untreated. So a really, really important episode, a really deep, deep episode. Um, every industry touches the dollar signs. And it's fascinating to learn just a little bit more.

I only get a little sneak peek behind that industry from someone who is working in it. But before we wrap, any other last thoughts from the curious Canadian on this one? Maybe, maybe just one last question. Cause I'm curious and I'd be happy to share mine. If you don't have yours on the spot, you've talked about therapy. Obviously, you, you went to therapy more probably in 2024 than every year. What was your first ever therapy session? what age what drew you to it was it always about relationships what was your first ever therapy

possession what drove you to go my first one with jiffy who i've been with for years was actually sparked by katelyn just suggesting like hey you know why don't you try this and i yeah i was just like i just remember i was like uh sure i mean i feel like i feel like i've lived a pretty like fortunate life i haven't had these big like traumas but you know yeah i'll give it a go that you know of. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Then I quickly learned, like, no, every single human in this world has trauma. Every single human in this world has things that have shaped them, that have triggered them,

that gets dysregulated. There's so much to learn about yourself and to go in with that attitude thinking, like, everything's good. Why don't need to grow was like the definition of why I needed to grow. Like it was, you know, all those things and more. And I just learned so much about myself and who I am and why I tick and I love it. I absolutely love it. Now, I do remember when I was going through some of my troubles in my 20s with banking and, you know, having those, like, anxiety spells and passing out and all these things.

I did see psychiatrists, but the strategy of seeing those psychiatrists is really, as I described in the restart roadmap, to get prescribed a solution so I could keep ticking, as opposed to, like, actually investing in my mental health. So I did go then, but, you know, I didn't take it seriously the way I did, starting in like 2021 when I started seeing my current therapist. How about you? Yeah, my really quick. I was probably 19, 20 years old. Our family got in a massive fight one night. And my families, you know, were not really, you know, fighters or arguers.

But usually, you know, if you do get in family arguments, and I'm sure if you listen and you hear this, you know, you know maybe for us it was I you know I was always my mom me and my mom were really close and my sister my dad were really close and so when arguments happened you kind of have each other's backs and whatever whatever and was this one night it was everyone who normally had each other back or could get the person to calm down it just exploded and my sister was working with a family therapist for her family and she just brought her into our living room the next day and um we all sat down and like uh on our couches and it was like four hours

of just nothing but learning about each other and our upbringings and like you said hearing our families make realizations about their childhood and in connecting of why they are now and what their ticks are and you know for whatever each person's was it would just give me such perspective like holy shit this stuff matters this is why maybe some people are how they are the level of understanding and sympathy and uh you know communication and collaboration it gave my family in one four-hour session was amazing and it changed my life as like a 19 impressionable 19-20-year-old kind of going out into my out of life so that's the only time I've done it I know I could probably use it just haven't gotten gotten you know maybe pushed over the edge to do it but for all those people out there who have done it you know hopefully you've had positive experiences if you haven't done it I think we both would would recommend this suggesting dipping your toe in the water and doing it for yourself yeah no I appreciate Appreciate you sharing that, David. It's interesting to learn just like a little bit more about that. And I think you nailed it. I don't think it matters, you know, whatever age you are, what you've gone through, what you've seen or how far you've come.

There's so much to learn. And you think about like, especially when you go into a new year, how often we are, you know, trying to exercise and work our muscles and our cardiovascular and the most important organ in our entire body is the one that's between our ears, our brain. And so putting the work in there is just so, so critically important. So, David, I'm going to push you. I'm going to stay on you here to go back. Give it a shot, okay? 100%. I'm going to buy you. I'm going to get your first therapy session on me just to get your wheels spin again,

get them back in because it's only going to help. And I think some of the big things that I've always learned from my therapist is like set boundaries. Conflict is just growth trying to happen. And you've got to name those feelings to tame those feelings. But that's all I got from my end. This was a great episode. Guys, I'm going through a move right now So I got a lot of things to give away

Please give us five stars Any feedback themes Or people that you want us to have on the podcast And put your Instagram handle We were giving things away left and right And if you get an email from me You have one So give us reviews, five stars

And you know what, David? We have some big episodes coming up So you guys stay tuned Thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets What? It couldn't afford to miss. Money living that dream. Making that money, money, money, pay on me.

Making that money, money, living that dream.