Trading Secrets - 222. Hayley Paige: Paying $263K in court to get her name and career back?! From lawsuit to liberation, BTS of reclaiming her name, continuing her career in wedding dress design, and the road to get there!

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

This week, Jason is joined by entrepreneur, fashion designer, and America’s favorite bridal expert on TLC’s Say Yes to the Dress, Hayley Paige formerly known as Cheval! Previously when Hayley Paige was on the podcast, we discussed her impressive rise to success in the fashion industry. However, that success eventually led to her being in a legal hot set when she was sued by her former employer on control of what believed was her own brand and social media accounts and even her name, forcing her to give up much of her hard work that she put in throughout the entirety of her career.  Hayley opens up about the significant changes in her life since her last appearance on the podcast. She discusses the challenges she faced, including being unable to use her own name to continue her career as a wedding dress designer due to a federal lawsuit. She shares the pivotal moment that turned the case in her favor, and how unexpectedly landing in bankruptcy court ultimately became a major win. Hayley reflects on the difficult decision to write a check in order to regain her freedom, the experience of speaking before Congress, and the profound impact of her unwavering support system and community. She also touches on the positive influence of her relationship, what her next business venture will be, her top wedding advice for brides, and her non-profit, A Girl You Might Know. Hayley reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!                                               Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest: Hayley Paige Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Trading Secrets Steals & Deals! Strawberry.me: Feeling uncertain about what’s next in your life or career? You’re not alone. Life can be overwhelming—big decisions, changing relationships, or just trying not to make a mistake. Visit Strawberry.me/TRADINGSECRETS for 20% off your first month membership and take charge of your future with the help of a certified coach Quince:  Quince offers a range of high-quality items at prices within reach. Like 100% Mongolian Cashmere Sweaters from $50, Washable Silk Tops and Dresses, Organic Cotton Sweaters, and 14 Karat gold Jewelry. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince! Go to Quince.com/tradingsecrets for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Indeed:  There’s no need to wait any longer–speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. For a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com/SECRETS  Tonal: Tonal is the world's smartest workout that effortlessly fits into the busiest lifestyles and with the latest iteration - Tonal 2 - you can ensure your workout is more tailored and effective than ever. With new drop sets, Tonal 2 analyzes your movement, senses when you're fatiguing and will drop weight until your muscles are maxed-out. It's an experience you could only get in a gym—until now. For $200 off your purchase, head to Tonal.com and use promo code TRADINGSECRETS

Welcome back to another episode of trading secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tardick, and welcome to the pre-market trading segment. I'm going to tell you just a little bit about our guests, some things you can expect in this episode and a little finance tip, and then we'll get into this episode. But before we go anywhere, please remember to give us five stars and let us know a guest. want us to have on a theme and or let us know your biggest takeaway from this episode or or let me know about what you think of my new future life plan uh you know every year we do that episode that we title jason tells all uh and i will tell you this recap uh it feels like an episode like that it's a great great recap so stay tuned to that and let me know what you think about my

potential new future life plan yeah it'll be interesting this episode is it's profound it's it's man there are so many just life and business and even financial takeaways from this one you guys remember hayley page one of the biggest wedding dress designers in the world on say yes to the dress the last time she was on this podcast we had to call her chival because she signed a contract in which she literally gave the rights to her name her Instagram her exclusivity of even working in this space. It was all gone. She's been fighting it. She's been putting millions of dollars into this fight. And you're going to hear the update. Where are we

today? One quick little financial tip I'll give you April 15th around the corner. Start organizing everything for tax time. Understand tax strategies. Understand write-offs. Understand all of where your money is going, how and why, and use AI. Chat, GPT, if you have questions, use the tools that are out there to help you organize. I use it with tables too all the time now. Like I need to create budgeting systems. Hey, I have this amount of money to spend on groceries or for this amount of people or I want to, you know, I want to cook a meal for 10 people and I want it to be fancy, you know, write a grocery list for me. Everything from taxes to grocery use AI. But enough of me, enough of this. It's a quick intro because it's a long recap and it's a great episode.

You're going to love this one with the one and only Chival slash Haley Page. You'll have to see what happens. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined for the second time by entrepreneur, fashion designer, and America's favorite bridal expert on TLCs. Say yes to the dress, Haley Page previously known as Chival. We'll talk about that. In our first interview with Haley, we discussed her impressive rise to success. in the fashion industry. However, that success eventually led to her being in a legal hot seat when she was sued by her former employer on control of what she believed was her own brand and social media accounts and even her name, forcing her to give up much of her hard work that she

put throughout the entirety of her career. Today, however, we are here to celebrate some incredible news around those legal battles and discuss the future of her brands and career in the fashion industry. Haley, thank you so much for being back on Trading Secrets. Yay, I'm happy to be back. So it was June 2023 that you were on last. We're in February 2025. If you guys have not listened to that first episode, go listen to it right now. But in summary, and I said it in the intro, Haley, I couldn't even call you Haley in our last podcast because you had signed a contract in which you literally gave your name to your employer without knowing. We talked all about it.

But there, I've seen you talk to Senator Warren. I've seen you in Supreme Court. I've seen your non-for-profit. You've made massive change in the space. Talk to me a little bit about what the last year and a half has looked like. Oh, my goodness. Well, it has been a lot of poetry because it's come back to full circle. I am Haley Page again.

I got my name back. I know. It's so exciting because I just did not expect it. I really made peace with the idea that I had made this decision. I had signed this contract and however it's being interpreted, I just kind of have to accept it and move on with my life. And so I rebranded and went into another category, but all the while I was still fighting because I knew it was meaningful.

And I knew that because there wasn't a lot of case law with respect to social media ownership, that this could be an avenue where my case could actually do some good for creators and influencers or anyone that uses social media, both personally and professionally, which is a lot of people now. Yeah. So now that I get to kind of look back, I mean, as you know, your relationship to your story changes depending on where you are in your life.

And now I'm just, I'm so grateful, of course. But I think the big takeaways are really about personal identity and how you show up in the world and how you connect to people. And for me, I'm so grateful that I never lost touch with creativity. and the girl that I love designing for. I mean, this whole story, there's so many takeaways from it. I mean, it's a story, I think, that will live on for, like, in eternity because there's so much here. But give people an idea of some of the specifics you had to change.

My understanding is your Instagram handle was taken. The only industry that you knew was wedding, dress designing. You couldn't do anything in that space. You couldn't say your name publicly. Like, give us an idea of some of the specifics that you. you could not do. Otherwise, you would have been in contract violation. So I could not use my own name, birth name publicly or in any business or commerce. I had to hand over my passwords for my social media account, my Instagram, which I had started,

you know, as a personal account. And it grew into something much bigger. But, you know, never did I ever think that that would be a source of contention. And I was also withheld under a non-compete, which was kind of shocking. Because honestly, being in New York City, a lot of non-competes don't normally get held up, but we were in a federal court. So, you know, it's a little bit different in how the lawsuit goes, the structure of it, but I was under a major restriction where it wasn't so much about my name in that respect. It was me, the human being that actually could not identify as a wedding dress designer. It is unbelievable. Why was it in the federal court, though, and not the city court? That was just where it was

originally filed. Okay. And, you know, I don't know the, you know, parameters are I guess the motivation behind what's the difference between a federal lawsuit and a state lawsuit because there's obviously a lot of nuance there. But I've learned so much. And I've got to say the fact that my case made new case law for the federal court of appeals is really exciting because now future cases will refer to my case as who owns what accounts. So what case law changed as a result of this? It was a social media account ownership. And the the way they determined ownership is by basic property law, which was kind of cool because, you know, it's probably one of the first things you learn in law school is like how, who owns

what a property and why and was it ever transferred? And so they actually used that as the benchmark for how they determine social media account ownership. Interesting. I can't, I mean, I'm just, the whole story is unbelievable. It's mind blowing. You go through this process. Before it gets to the federal court, was there ever a discussion of like, like, like, let's make a handshake agreement. I'll do this for you if you give me this back. Like, did you guys try and negotiate before this went to court? So I remember the reason the whole saga started back in March of 2019. And that's when my contract, my long-term contract that I had signed was coming to an end.

And so there was a big period of negotiating in which, you know, my intention was to continue doing what I loved. You know, and I soon came to find that the delta was pretty wide, you know. And I think, too, when you look at contracts, you almost have to think of it in terms of the software. Yeah. But software needs to be updated. And, like, you can probably carry the relatability into athletes, you know, if they're outperforming their contract or if they signed it before they started really, you know, putting metrics on the board. You know, when do you need to revisit that and when circumstances that didn't exist at the time of signing, all of a sudden come into play, how is it factored in? Yeah. And so that's something I experienced. And while I had every hope that it would work out,

you know, I was met with a federal lawsuit. And then that's when I was like, whoa, this is how it's being interpreted. And oh my gosh. And it happened honestly so fast. And there was something about it that was almost kind of ridiculous or ludicrous. But I was like, I'm going to put this over here. And, you know, what can't I do? Let's focus on that. Because I was like, I don't have much control over here. Right. Okay, so you started fighting, though, and you went full speed. We talked about it last time. Tell me, and just remind the audience a little bit of how much, let's call it, time and money you had to put into this legal battle.

It's exhausting to even think about it. Yeah, it's like you just got triggered right there. Because it's like PTSD. Yeah, I'm like, it got out of here. No, it's so scary because people think, okay, it's the law and this is going to help me in some way. typically that's what happens when you sue someone. You know, it's like I feel like I've been wronged and for these reasons. But the psychological toll you go through, the financial toll, you know, I almost went personally bankrupt. I spent every dollar I ever made designing my dresses and getting through my career on the lawsuit, you know, and just to kind of survive it. But I was also very, I wanted to be strategic because there was a part of me that felt like I was naive. when I signed my contract.

Yeah. And that's on me. Like, I didn't know what I didn't know. But now, years later, I have learned a lot. And I actually do have a bit more of a backbone. And I don't need to be this, oh, I'm a people pleaser. And I need to continually make sure I'm doing things by the book and how people want to see me. I actually have to be me.

And I need to stand up for myself. And so that was helpful in the motivation of it to stay, it's not lose my freaking mind. You know, over it. It's just like the idea. of you build this brand in a space and you earn all this money in a short period of time. And then you have to take that money and spend it to be able to just operate in this space and get your name back is just asinine. Like it's asinine to me, but you did it.

Since we had you on the podcast, there was a turning point. And obviously, no, we can call you Haley Page now. What was the turning point in which your battle started to move in the direction that screamed optimism? The big turning point was really that my former employer filed for bankruptcy. Karma. And it's really, really interesting that that happened because, and it's obviously sad. You never want that to happen. You never want anyone to go bankrupt.

No, I'm going to speak for you. It's not sad that he went bankrupt. That is karma. That guy, I am not surprised. And those things come around when people think short term. So I'm not sad for him. Well, what's interesting about it is that I finally, had kind of an opportunity to feel like I was no longer on the defense. Because the whole process

has been me. I'm a defendant. I'm defending my rights and all this stuff. And there's a big part of me that's like, I might not win this, but I've got to keep showing up. And it's really important. But once you're in a bankruptcy court, you actually get a different judge. And you get into a different structure where the case is looked at from a different perspective almost. Okay. And it just changed. the whole landscape and dynamic. Because when you think about it, a lawsuit is expensive. It costs money. And if, you know, you're in a bankruptcy court, how can you afford to continue litigation if, you know, there's other issues going on? And so honestly, it was a very, very interesting, it was really interesting for me to learn that because I felt like I was learning a lot in litigation

and where you have no control. And then when you're in a bankruptcy court, there's actually a little bit more financial matters that come into play and factually what is the evidence, what is it showing, and where is there a strategic opportunity to potentially settle. And that is what was brought from that arrangement is that a settlement opportunity came to light. And it happened in a matter of weeks. It was shocking because this lawsuit had been going on for three and a half years. And yeah, and it was not looking good for me. So if your former employer's company did not go bankrupt, it's likely you'd be here today and I'd still have to call you Chival and you wouldn't be able to compete in the space.

Very likely. Unbelievable. Okay. So you go to bankruptcy court and then you settle. My understanding is the settlement was around $263,000. Is that correct? So still, even after all this, putting millions into this, you still have to write a check for a quarter million dollars to get your damn name back.

Yes, I had to write a check. What is, what are you paying for? break, like, just throw the contract. Like, what is that money is being given to them in return for what? I think I made peace with the idea that I am paying for my, my freedom and really the greatest, one of the greatest loves in my life, which is designing wedding dresses, you know, and the idea that, yes, I've got to put some money on the table. It was more so that I'm going to get not just my name back and not just my ability to work

and make a living again. it is that I get to be who I am again. And I get to own that while also respecting the journey I've been on and the fact that I went into shoes and I learned a lot from small business management and all that. But it was a way of me just really reclaiming who I am. Yeah. And that to me is invaluable.

It's kind of, yeah, okay, it sucks that I had to put even more money down. More money in, yeah. But I also didn't really wallow in that because it, the runway and like, as jelly roll says, you know, that windshield is way bigger than the rear room. That's right. And that's really what I felt. I was just so delighted to have that opportunity, especially after putting it in a dark place. I was like, there's probably a chance I will never be Haley Page again.

And Chival is a great name. I love it. I'm going to roll with it. And so I was happy kind of either way. Yeah. So, yeah. That's unbelievable. $263,000 is what you pay

and you get your name back and you get the rights to work in this industry again. My financial brain is just running down to curiosity when you have to pay that $263K, can you finance that or does it have to be like a check? I'm not sure, actually. I was lucky to be in a position to offer that, but that was all the money I had in the entire world.

And it was after months and months and months of just complete slow bleed. Actually, it wasn't even a slow bleed. I mean, this was bleeding. And I do not like the taste of my own blood. Some people do, but I do not. I like that line right there. My blood pressure is going up and up, just thinking about this.

But obviously, it's a great ending to a bizarre, awful, and I think just cruel story. Claims bankruptcy, you guys settle. Talk to me a little bit about the negotiation. Like, I'm just trying to understand the picture because I feel like this should be a documentary. And I'm wondering if I was like literally scripting this. are you and this guy like in the same room when you're negotiating? Is it in court? Is the judge there? Like what paint the picture of like what that negotiation process is like? It actually is pretty sterile in that at this point being in a lawsuit and litigation for three and

half years where it's just back and forth motions and there's just so much drama really that goes into a lawsuit. And it's a very personal thing. Bankruptcy court was actually pretty straightforward. And we still worked through lawyers and we still had to represent or argue our case to the judge, to the bankruptcy judge. And the process was honestly a little bit less taxing at that point. That's good to know. It's always interesting to just like here kind of pulling the curtain back what that looks like. Yeah. And I think you potentially could finance. Like it would depend on like are you borrowing the money, you know, or is it somebody that's backing you? Like that could have been a possibility. I mean, you hear it all the time

that, like, big brands will pay for somebody's lawsuit, you know, or something like that as a backer. But, you know, in my case, it was pretty straightforward. And the settlement for me going in was kind of all or nothing. If I'm putting money on the table, I want it all. I want my name. I want my IP. I want all my designs. I want it all. So, like, go big or go home. And you got it all. Everything back, all that time effort. And now with that, you're making an impact. You're making moves. You're doing things differently. I did see a clip of you talking to Senator Warren at the Supreme Court. What was some of your discussions? What are you trying to do? What were your thoughts? That was wild because she literally slid into my DMs and was like, hey. Senator Warren did.

Yeah. Wow. And just do you want to come speak on your case because we're, you know, that we're fighting these non-competes and your case is pretty unique? And it was a really involved process because one, I had just signed the settlement agreement. And so I'm like so ready to move on, right? Like I'm just like, let me get back to dress design. I got to find my partnership. Like, I got to go. And then I got this opportunity to go speak in front of Congress. And my goodness, after starting a nonprofit to help creators and the fact that we got the social media account back before the settlement,

I was like, there's definitely a lot here that I think could be encouraging and educational for people. And I was terrified because you really, I mean, you're in this room and there's senators. Oh, man. And they're asking you questions. And, like, there was a doctor there that was also fighting a non-competeer. and like, this man's like saving lives over here. And I'm just like, I just want to design dresses.

You know, it's just, it was a really cool opportunity. And it was very poetic to come full circle that way because I was able to completely tell the story from start to finish completely factually. And anyone that's been in the lawsuit knows that there is a lot of creativity that goes into that. And when things are happening in a lawsuit that do not reflect your experience, it can be really devastating, especially if you have like a very strong moral compass. And, like, again, I always want to be seen for being a good person, you know, and I felt like I wasn't like, but I am a good person, you know, and you can't explain that in a lawsuit.

Yeah. Like, the judge doesn't care. No one cares. No, it's black and white. There's no gray area. It's black and white. There's no feelings. And I cover all day long.

You know, I sparkle things. Yeah, you are sparkled. Yeah. That is, that's literally one of your Instagram handles when you came back to it. That's literally what you do to a T. What is your take on non-competes for people listening? And then when you did present your take on that, did you have any challenge? and what were their takes?

Yes. So I was able to speak on being kind of a victim, right, of a non-competent? Of course. But also I had just started my own business. And I understood wanting to protect your IP and protect your business with contracts. And if you're hiring or training somebody, you don't want them to come in and like get the benefit and then just leave and go, you know. So I was really able to feel somewhat objective in that there's probably benefits to both

sides, but ultimately what I experienced in not just like how it impacted me, but the industry in general, all of these small businesses that invested in my collection, there were such a rippling effect of stress in the industry. And even if I wasn't able to use my name, if I was at least able to work, then maybe we could have filled the void for certain things in the industry. And it's like you want, you want the best people, most talented, highly performing to be able to participate. You know, we don't want to cut people out from that. Not to say I'm like, I'm the best.

You know, nothing like that. It's just that competition's good. It rises the tide. Everyone benefits. And it's really hard to see the other side. So, yeah, it was really a pretty cool moment. When you're sitting there with all those senators, because of course, there's many opposing views on this.

Did anybody step into you at all? challenge it? There was one senator. Actually, he was from Louisiana. Okay. And he was really, really tough. And I mean, I really enjoyed the back and forth because he was actually going a little bit harder with the doctor that was also speaking on non-competes. And he didn't question me, which was kind of shocking because I thought he was going to say something, you know, about like, didn't you learn a lot, you know, and don't you think that where you are right now is because of the journey you had at that company. And it would have been hard to argue that because you do.

You learn so much, the more you put into it. But I don't know, I first started, I did like a monologue. And I started off by saying, like, I just want to preface, but I love my country. Like, first of all, because it is a privilege to be an American. And I really see it as we are awarded this justice system, you know, and I believe in due process. And the fact that I'm just this girl that also gets to go fight for my rights, I see the beauty in that. So I just wanted to kind of set the table of like, I don't want to come in thinking like, I've been unjust, it's been unjust, you know, and like bitter.

Right. I wanted to like, this didn't work out well for me. I found another way to still create. But there are issues with the system. So let's talk about it. Let's have a real conversation. That's a good trading secret just to address a room when there's conflict. I think that's a good perspective to get people to listen and actually hear your take.

So that's brilliant. I want to ask you about this. At the height of Haley Page wedding design dress, like you take the brand at the pinnacle and it will supersede this, right? We know it's going to. But at the pinnacle, what were you doing as far as like quantity of dresses a year and revenue? Like what did the business look like?

So I probably can't be specific here just because it's best. probably privileged information, but what's interesting is my former employer did have public financials. Okay. So that was actually very helpful because in a bankruptcy court, you're actually able to get, you can quantify certain things. Interesting. Okay. So we kind of went on a little bit of a financial journey and like learning the business. And for me as a designer, I never thought about that. I never thought about like, sure, you're creative. Dresses. I mean, sales and revenue and like my sales director just was like, you're killing it, you're doing it. You know, I'm like, oh, that's wonderful. You know, so like I kind of stayed out of it. Okay. To my detriment,

because I was not aware of what was really going on in the business. And that's so important to know. It's important to know, like, what's your overhead and what are your costs? And, you know, so now I can really appreciate it. And I am going into this next chapter with a much better business sense. Okay. So that's good stuff. That is good stuff. Yeah. If you had to like roundabout there, are we? talking like at the pinnacle, like you're moving a thousand plus dresses, like thousands of dresses? Oh, for sure. Okay. So you're moving thousands of dresses. Okay. When this contract went to place, you had to become Chival. This brand was still in place. Haley Page wedding dresses were

still in place even though you weren't part of it and you couldn't use your name. Did the brand take a hit as far as like units sold, profitability revenue? You don't have to get the specifics, but did it take a hit when you were removed from it? Yeah, because that was something we analyzed and just looking at the yearly numbers. And, you know, it's kind of a simple graph. Is it going down or is it going up? But what's interesting is this was on the heels of COVID. And I don't know many businesses that didn't take a hit during that time, you know, and other variables at play in the business model that like now learning to manufacture shoes, I'm like, gosh, you got to get your costs down. So you don't get your cost down and you don't have the right margins. You are not going to

make money. You just won't because there's too many business expenses. Totally. So, Yeah, it definitely, you could see, too, that I think with the store base, because it's a wholesale business mostly, all the stores that kind of stopped selling the collection. And they had their own reasons of that, too. And you could see the pattern there. But I just feel the real takeaway for me is that the relationships were already there. And those moments had happened. And so, yeah, what I was going through was really traumatic. a lot of ways, but it never overshadowed how much I loved doing what I did, right? And like designing those dresses and it's not tarnished for me at all. It really wasn't during the lawsuit either. And I still wanted girls to get the dress that they wanted. Yeah, exactly. I really wanted that for them. I was like, just because this is going on, if that dress is speaking to you, you know, go grab her. Go grab her. Go grab her. Do you feel almost like, I think about like, and I know it's not a comparison, but I think about my businesses. And if I was stripped of

businesses for two years, I feel like jumping back into it would be, it would feel like such an uphill battle, a battle I wouldn't know that I'd want to take on. Like, oh my gosh, obviously you've earned the right to take it back on. Do you feel like it is going, it's going to like take so much longer to get back in this space because of time lost? And if so, how do you overcome that? Yes, that's such a great question. I think because my support system and my community has been so die-hard and really making me feel accountable in that they're like, whenever you're ready to get back out there, we'll be ready to. And that mindset for me was kind of everything. It allowed me to say, let me take my time in finding my footing here

because this has been a serious moment in time for me. And now that I've got it all back and I get to go back into it, you know, what did I learn? Like not to rush. What did I learn? Okay. okay, let's make sure this is a financially healthy decision. You know, it's like when I was going into finding my next deal, it was a completely different set of parameters than back in 2011. Totally. And so I was trying to be really intelligent and strategic about the decision and take my time. Okay.

Because had I been like, I got to get back out there, I got to get dresses, I got to go, go, go. You know, and like, should I just redo all the dresses that were doing really well? And like, you know, and of course, that crossed my mind. but I never thought for a moment, oh, I don't want it. I can't do it. Okay. It really set it in stone that I want to be known for being a dress designer. You know, and like, that's something that I've always felt the best about myself with. And, you know, I know you don't want to be known for, like, your accolades, your success.

You want to be known for your character. Sure. But I also want to be known for dresses. And now I get to do it again. So it's like, that's all that matters. And it's also power of community, right? Even if you're stuck when the community stays with you, they'll be right back. So about 10 months ago, you got your full rights to your name and IP under the brands,

including Haley Page Bridal, Blush by Haley Page, Haley Page, Occasions, all social media associated with your name. Since then, 10 months, what has it looked like? And what does it look like from this point on as far as business planning? Now that it's all back in your portfolio. Yes, that whole mouthful took a long time to actually put in place. Because you think about your registry with the USPTO. You think about how am I going to protect? my intellectual property. Do I even want to own it myself or do I want to actually put it under an LLC? Right? And like you start to think about all these layers and things that you can do to really like create a robust structure for branding. And so, and I was lucky to have an

incredible mentor and Conrad is an amazing financial whiz. You know, and he's been such a soundboard for me of like, let's think about this before we make a decision. You know, let's protect it and do all the right things. And so the past 10 months has really been running a robust and smart process. To get back up and running. To get back up and running and to find my next partnership. Yeah. Okay. Because I knew I did not want to manufacture dresses. Okay. Because it's not my specialty. My specialty is actually designing creative branding. Yeah. And so I want somebody to bring that economic intelligence to this because it would be the best combination of things. Okay. We're going to pause there because we're going to get in the future, but we're touching on something here

that impacts everybody. And it's a book I wrote about, right? Love and Money. You went through, which was the most unexpected and hardest challenge that I'm sure you possibly could have ever fathomed. And you have all this wealth. And now all your wealth is depleted, fighting for it. In situations like that, statistically, based on the book I wrote, that will break relationships. That will break relationships. But when you were on last time, you said it actually strengthened your relationship. So just talk to me a little bit about the concept of like the importance of your partner when in business distress and the many moving complexities of love and money, especially in a situation like this. Yes, that was, what do you think about

finding the right partner in your life? Everyone's like, well, what do you look for? And, you know, what are your non-negotiables and all this stuff? And ultimately, what it all comes down to is respect. It's all about respect in your relationship. And if your partner respects the journey you've been on and they respect where you're going, you have an amazing default. And that's what I've had with Conrad is like, he met me when I was like, I'm a dress designer and I'm on a show. And I was in such a different place of my life. And so was he. And then literally I lost. lost at all. Like, I fell from, fell from it, you know, and there was a big tumble there. And not only that, but I lost all of my value financially. I could not contribute to our little household, you know,

and so he was able to say, you know, I've got you and I've got your back and you can, you can live rent free here all the time, you know? And like, a lot of people don't have that. And but even more so than that is just being able to kind of treat our relationship a bit like a mentorship, because we both have strengths in different categories. And so that's really nice because it's a bit yin and yang of like, I know we both know this. We're going to fight for who knows it best. It's not been like that. It's been like, actually, this might be a blind spot for you, you know. And so I'm really proud of our relationship for sure and the fact that we've kind of had to take a back seat to life, you know, to marriage, to kids, to all these things that like a lot

of people are really on, you know, a different, they're just at a different pace than we're going and it's been nice that we haven't felt pressured. Yeah. Or like pressuring each other, like, this is going to take a while. So let's just hunker down and still have joy in our lives and our relationship. And yeah, you know, it's, I never anticipated it, but I'm so grateful for him. I mean, it's beautiful because I think a lot of people say respect and then they're tested and you guys were tested. And obviously, the strength of that respect is so next level. You guys got through it. And now the future's looking bright for you. So it was about 10 months ago that you had to get everything in place. You talked about some of the nuances of that. You're now here today.

We're looking at 2025. What's the future look like in your business? It's all back. The LLCs are running. You're getting everything taken care of. Where do you go? How do you start? What's your next business move? We have so many dresses to make. Stress is rolling. Production switch on. Exactly. All systems go. I do feel like confetti cannons go off of my brain when I think about it because it's just,

it is really such a celebration for me. And that is something I actually want to do first is I actually want to have a moment to celebrate with the industry and like do something that's like proper to paying respect to the community that supported me through this, these brides, like these fashionistas, whatever it is, like, I want to feel like, can we just, we hug this out? Like, this is so exciting. So I want to have that moment. But I think in terms of business, you know, I've been really betting and trying to find who is this new partner going to be for me. And I've met with over 10 different companies. And I went into it a little timid and really skeptical. And while I

tried to not be jaded in all that I've been through, it was hard to feel like, is, do I need to make sure that this is not going to set a bad precedent later. And I still knew that I wasn't the best business person. So I had a financial advisor helping me through a lot of the conversations because, you know, just higher level. What am I not listening to in terms of the music here? So that was helpful and having a great mentor as well and then an amazing legal team. Okay. So you're talking about a partner? And I think that's honestly, even just bringing in a financial partner is so smart. It's Obviously, you've learned a lot by bringing experts in. But who is this mysterious partner you keep referring to?

Come on, give me something. Oh, I can't kiss and tell. Not yet? After all that I've been through, I have to be so careful. Keep your lip sealed. I get it. A timeline? Like, maybe we'll know more in what?

What I can tell you is that a deal has been signed. A deal has been signed. Yes. Something is coming. And if we want to know where it's coming, where do we go to check it out? Definitely my Instagram. Which is back. Miss Haley Page is back.

Is back in full Sparkle Force. Full Sparkle Force. All right. So you gave us a little tease there, but everyone go make sure that you're following Miss Haley page now that you have your account back because something's been sealed

and something is coming. Now, Ms. Haley Page, before we wrap, I got to ask you this. There are a lot of people that listen to this show that are getting ready for weddings right now. I couldn't ask you this last episode because we couldn't even say the word wedding.

I couldn't even say your name. So I want some tips. as all of these, these brides are getting ready to buy their dresses. As a consumer, what are some things that they should be looking out for? You know, you went through something in a contract where you didn't see something and you can now give people advice on that. But now in the consumption of a wedding dress, where are places they might be maybe getting taken advantage of or something they should look twice at? Now that I'm back in my element and getting to give advice and tips to brides again, I am so grateful that I've had the credibility.

in this industry and that there's real goodwill. And I feel like when you're shopping for a wedding dress, you want to really feel like you're in a trustworthy environment. Yes. And I think so many stores do this really well, that they hire amazing sales reps that know exactly how to make the bride feel comfortable and like, let me hold your hand through this. So the first thing I would say is that going to a store where you just feel good energy.

Yeah. And that, like, you have a good rapport with the sales associate and that they have a real good selection of dresses because I always say, you know, your dream dress, it could pleasantly surprise you. You could go in thinking, you know, I'm Cinderella, you know, and leave, like, a total, like, Sharon Stone, you know, like, but I think you do want to try a little bit of everything. Okay. And try all kinds of designers. You know, there's so much talent in the industry that you owe it to yourself to kind of play dress up a bit. And then, of course, with the financial piece. You know, I think you just, you need to be comfortable and realistic with

yourself and what you really want to spend. And again, as I say, like, this industry has a lot to offer. And so I always try to encourage girls that, you know, if you have a low budget, don't think that you're getting compromised too much on your dress. Like, there will be a great design out there in your budget. Like, I believe that emphatically. So I try to, like, don't put too much expectation in. You know, happiness is about removing that expectation a bit. Yeah. And kind of letting yourself be dazzled by it and like fall in love with your dress. De Beers Diamonds is well known for like giving that rule of thumb that, you know, you should spend three months of your salary on an engagement ring. Are there any rule of thumbs like as a

percentage of your budget that you're spending on the wedding or anything like that that someone should think about when spending on their dress? Don't forget alterations budget. Interesting. Because alterations is really where a lot of the magic happens. And this is why I always tell brides, the dress has to fit you. Okay. That needs to fit your beautiful body, not vice versa. You know, not like you have to fit this dress. Yeah. And so the alterations is really where a lot of tailoring and a lot of fine tuning can come in. And I always remind brides, you've got this budget for your dress, but do you also have an extra amount so that you can really make sure it fits you perfectly? Okay. I like it. We also had the apartment guy on. He goes through all the

apartments in New York City and talks about value to price to square footage. And he gave us a strike zone of apartments that are $4,000 to $8,000 a month in New York City, there's very little variability when you're shopping around. So he said, you might get a place that's $7,500, and you might be able to get an identical place to $4,500. So he said, if you're in that $4,000 to $8,000, really do your research because you might be overpaying and get the same value for something. And a wedding dress, would you say there's a strike zone like that? Like if you're spending over $5K on a dress or over $2.5k in a dress, like you're upside. value, you know, will be similar to even if you spend seven and a half or ten. Like, is there any

kind of strike zone like that? Actually, I don't feel like there is. I think that when you're paying more for a dress, you're likely getting a better quality of fabrics and a little bit more complexity in the construction. Okay. Like the amount of horsehair that goes into a lot of these dresses. I mean, you would be shocked at how long it takes to sew the horsehair and get it in the right spot and then to alter it and do all that. And so, like, I think there is a lot more that goes in to higher price point, like, is the beating hand done? Okay. Or is it done by machine? You know, there's a big difference. It can still, both dresses can look absolutely beautiful, but one is done by hand, you know, and another is it's maybe an all over application or something. But it's weird

because, like, when I talk about price with wedding dresses, sometimes I feel like it dulls the shine of it. Yeah. Just because it's like, I don't want a bride to be turned off. And by a dress that she absolutely loves just because of the price point or just because, you know, she thinks, well, is it not good quality? You know what I mean? But I do design premium dresses. And I now that I know the business side a little bit more, you know, like I know what kind of labor and cost and magic really goes into these dresses. And it's so worth it. Like to me, it's like if you're going to spend like a little bit in areas of your wedding, like the dress. And the dress. is where you should do it. I mean, unbiased, right?

Unbiased from the wedding design dress for self-designer. Yeah, it's just such a big part of it. And, like, you want to just feel like this is your goddess moment. I love that. So go for it. Go for it. Speaking to go for it, this is a little stretch trading secrets question. I got to ask it, though, what is the most, like, expensive dress you've ever designed? How much was it? So I had a finale dress that was hand done. embroidery. And it was actually a twall, scenic twall, which is the print that I used for Shea and Cheval. But this was years ago. I've always been into Twal print. I don't know why.

But the entire embroidery was Twal and we never actually sold the dress because the cost to make it was so expensive. And I think like the actual landed cost of that dress was somewhere around 10K just for the material and the work that went into that dress. So why wouldn't you sell it? I don't understand. Because it's really tough to often. something to multiple stores that's at that level of detail. Like, typically the higher up you go in a price point, the less available your dresses are. It's almost like Ferrari, you know,

like they only have certain models they make a year and they only offer it to certain people, you know, and it becomes a lot more exclusive. So the aperture really starts to narrow. And to be honest, while Haley Page is a premium brand, and I do want that, like, gorgeous quality, I do want it to be accessible still. Yeah.

And so there's this dance, you kind of waltz, I call it, that you have to do where it's like, I want you to have an amazing designer dress, but I also don't want it to be so far without being in reach for you. You know, and so that's kind of my job going back into this is how can I do that? So in that 10K, I think that's so great that you're doing that. In that 10K example, do you just take the loss?

Or do you just sell one unit? No, we just did it as a showpiece. A show piece. So it wasn't even sold. Yeah. Unbelievable. Oh, my God, you can't make it up. That is good stuff.

But there's been stuff where you can put like real diamonds in it and that really ups the cost. Have you ever done like a one custom piece? I've done some custom stuff. That has to be over 10K though. The custom stuff is a lot, it's just because of the labor that goes into it.

Yeah. We did this like fringe piece that Carrie Underwood war years ago and that piece like that piece alone took like 100 hours of just like hand selling. And what is a piece like that cost? We didn't sell it. Which is just funny because like all of our most expensive stuff.

What do you do? You just lend it to let her wear it and then take it back? Yeah. Yeah. It's more of like a PR piece. Oh, a PR play. And then you just put it. Yeah. So it's like a marketing. Interesting. What do you think? If you were selling that piece, what do you think it would sell for? Oh gosh. I think something like that would be upward of 10,000. Wow. Unbelievable. This is so cool. I love learning about this industry. And I think you're right. Like you can get it sounds like you can get a great dress and a good budget. But like that does feel like at a wedding.

that should be where you're spending your money. I mean, that's the phone. It's the dress. It's the dress. All this money is going into the flowers, tens of thousands of bullshit. Put it into the dress. This is ridiculous. And we're going to stay tuned because obviously you're going to be in the game again.

So people are going to have to check out that. All right. Now, Haley, before we get your drink secret, today's episode, it's sponsored by Symbiotica. So we're going to play a quick little game. We're going to taste test two of my favorite products. This is the glutathione. This stuff is unbelievable. It will remove toxins, which is great as we're here right now for the big game this weekend. And this is best taken on an empty stomach. And then the second product, which is my favorite, is the vitamin C. So this ignites collagen production. To tighten and brighten the skin helps with immunity defense. So the first question before we taste test on the vitamin C symbiotica, you've had to defend a lot. You've been at the Supreme Court throwing your defense shield on. What is one trick or one? one tip you would give someone that's listening right now that is in the defense in some area of

their life. I would say, stay humble in the victories and gracious in the defeats. Wow, that was a line you just dropped. You know what? My takeaway biggest defenses, I loved when you talked about how when you gave your pitch, you had talked about your grace. Like, I am grateful for this country. I am grateful I get to do this. Even though my experience put me at rock bottom, that experience gave me this opportunity. And I think, When you tee and frame something up like that, you're going to have people listening to you. And there's no way to be on the defense and get anywhere if you're not hurt. So that's my trading secret on the defense.

Oh, I love that. So let's take a little taste test. Let's take a tibiotic. Vitamin C, 1,000 milligrams. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Bottoms up.

Citrus vanilla, it's incredible. That's incredible. Ooh. That's tasty. It pops. It pops. Do you like spicy food or no? I do.

See, I like spicy food. It's a big flavor. I'm here for it. All right. Glutothium. removes toxins, best taking us empty stomach. What is one thing? You've had toxic energy thrown your way here over the years. What is one thing that you do to remove toxic energy in your life? What's one trading secret? Okay, I'm going to get a little philosophical here. Get it.

But what I will say is that the weight does not get lighter, your back gets stronger. So the more toxic energy and adversity you're exposed to, the more you are really like exercising your resilience muscles. Wow. And you just get better. at processing and detoxing the bad. Wow. The weight doesn't get lighter. The back just gets stronger. That's right.

That's a drop right there. Let's do a taste test. Usually I get my training secret, but I don't know. I think that's just like the mic fat. Yeah, that's going to be a good clip right there. Here we go. Oh, okay. A little thicker.

This is a thicker consistency indeed. Citrus berry. Berry glued. I had some king cake this morning. Is that going to mess this up or what? I think it's, I don't know. I'm ready for it. It's the master antitoxident.

I am. Bailey, it is so good to have you back with good news, almost two years later, and you are now free. The handcuffs are off. And you're helping people, before we get your train secret, you're also helping people make sure that their handcuffs never get put on. So talk to me just a little bit about a girl you might know your non-for-profit organization. Tell everybody what you're doing. We are trying to put out safeguards for creatives, especially in the formative years of their

career where they might be leading with a bit of naivity in, I want to get my dream job and I want to get my runway. We'll figure everything else out later. That's never a good mentality. And you could set a precedent for yourself and get yourself into hot water like I did. So we want to get ahead of that. And the three factors of the nonprofit, one is curriculum through experience-based content. So hearing stories of what can actually happen. The second is referrals to pro bono or low-bono attorneys. We've had so much interest in our case, not just from creators and people, but from attorneys that were following the case. Wow. And now they've offered their services to help creators. Wow. Which is wonderful. Genius. And then the third part is money, honey. We do a financial

grant once a year. Wow. And we're actually awarding one at the end of February for 2024. Oh my gosh. So it's just money in your pocket for your business or for a contract review or for a lawyer. Wow. Whatever you may need. So if you need a legal resource and any type of advocacy, people will just go to where to find more information. Yeah, a girl you might know, foundation.org. There you go. Check it out. Now, Haley, we got to get your trading secret. It's good that I'm not saying Chival. I'm saying, Haley, what is one trading secret you can leave our listeners with? It's not the pursuit of happiness. It's the happiness of pursuit. And it is not about, like, the journey or the destination. It's about who you become along the way. That is my secret.

Okay. It's like, do you like who you're becoming? Because that's the most important thing. What if you find yourself in a position, if someone's listening this right now where they don't like who they're becoming, what do you suggest? Stop drop and roll. Stop drop and roll. Let's reassess. Because that pursuit is everything that matters. That is awesome. Alien is so good to have you back on. We're so excited to see what's next with you. You're going to pop. The wedding dresses are back. Everyone is now going to go follow your page because your page is back. You know, where could everyone find everything you have going on? Talk to us. Haley's page. Say it with pride. Miss Haley Page is back. Is that where they can get out all the

information of everything? Yeah. And Haleypage.com launching soon. It's back, baby. That's right. Haley, thank you so much for being on this episode of Trading Secrets. What an honor. Thank you, friend. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell with the one the only, David Ardoin, the Curious Canadian, from Haley Page to Chival, back to Haley Page. David, one, it's good to have you back to. What was your biggest trading secret you learned from Ms. Haley Page on this episode, part two? My biggest trading secret putting me right back in the hot seat back here.

It was great to have Haley on. I think my biggest trading secret was really just the takeaway that no matter how bad it can seem. And we're talking not even be able to use your own name. she's still able to take such life lessons out of this. And I was blown away by the perspective that she had gained, that talked about all the lessons that she had learned. And her trading secrets, too, just having absolute kind of clarity on her journey and said,

it's not, what did you say? It's not the pursuit of happiness. It's the happiness of the pursuit. It's not about the journey or the destination. It's who you become along the way. I'm like, this person got her name taken away from her. as it relates to her multi-million dollar business and here she is on the other side, named back and she's got really not like, it doesn't even seem like a bad word to say about it.

She's actually like came out on the other side, a better person. I just think that we have all, we all have things that drive us crazy that we're dealing with. If we're able to take the same approach to those situations and apply them to our life, how much better can we all be because of it? And she's proven that it's possible. So that was my biggest takeaway, my biggest trading secret. How do you feel about that answer? I mean, honestly, perfectly said. I put you in the hot seat. That's the biggest thing. I think about like what I complain about on a day to day basis and just the words of complaining is manifesting negativity and stress into your life. And like the fact that that Haley had all the success, she made all this money and she took all that money and depleted it fighting for her freaking name in which someone had access to her personal Instagram account. And she couldn't even compete in the space, the only space she knew to earn a living and still has.

this type of optimism, it's beautiful. And no matter who you are, what you do or how you do it, like there's something that you can take away from the way that she sees life and the bright she could see and everything. And weirdly enough, David, when you're going over this monologue, it brought me right back to a conversation I had with a friend who actually owns a stem cell research lab. And it was kind of wild what he said. He's seen thousands of people come in for cancer treatment, right? And if it's the point that you're going through stem cell, it's like that's kind of like one of your last outs and he said that he at this point can almost tell who's going to survive strictly based on the optimism that he sees in them and the calmness

of their partner and he said i've seen thousands of cases and if i see someone optimistic and their partner can stay calm as like a foundational piece uh they're gonna i've seen success and like when he, when you went on that little monologue there, it's the first thing I thought about. And it reminds me, you know, of just like straws at least, some takeaways from this example and her partner and the calmness and everything there. That was going to be my other trading secret was like just find yourself a great life partner. But it's true. Like think of in this day and age and you've talked a lot about finance and relationships

and how it can affect relationships in your books. Someone who just stuck through with her thick and thin. I love the term she rent, she said, he let me live rent free in our place while I figured it out. And I always said this too. You know, obviously I'm happily married and Ashley's amazing. And there was a time where people were asking me like, what was it about Ashley? Like how did you know she was the one? And I said to my answer to that question to this day is she's the first person that I was ever with where I actually was looking forward to going through some of the hard times with like i actually was not afraid of hard times with her it wasn't about the highlights it wasn't

about the trips it wasn't about the vacations it wasn't about the dinners it wasn't about the nights out it was about knowing that if i lost my job she would support me if someone in my family got sick she would support me if she got sick i would want to support her you know it's it's you just have that feeling where you can look at that person know that no matter what happens like you actually there's a as bad as it can be there's a a level of excitement that you have someone or you can support someone to that level of helping them. And that's what I felt there. And to hear her have that and related to her unbelievable story.

And just how much, like I said, how much better she's came out the other end. It was pretty inspiring. It was one of the best, like, part two is of having someone come back on because it's like, wow, she figured this out and she has no bad feelings about it. Yeah. I mean, I honestly don't even know how to respond to what you just said because it was like perfectly said. it was just that's that is it's the number one most important decision you can make in your life your partner and then when you hear her talk about how you know conrad was like literally

her like ride or die foundation like everything um man that's that's special and it sounds so like almost cheesy and simple but you're really peeling back like all of the bullshit and it's like you're really kind of relying on this person just to help keep you alive, right? Keep you through the day and keep your spirits up. You're not talking about a material thing. You're not talking about any like necessarily providing anything. Obviously there's elements of that. But like you're just looking for a good human being with a good human being who's going

to help you get through emotions and feelings and anxieties and stresses. Like it's not some nuts and bolts of it. And to hear her have that support system and come through such. on such a high. It was great. It was great. It was great. It's a great episode. It's a great episode. Another takeaway. I talked about it a little bit. It's my trading secret takeaway. But I have the intro. I thought it was really cool when she talked about how her intro when she was speaking at the Senate testimony. And I thought the way she framed her intro was important. I'm going to play it real quick. This is Haley Page. You're up next.

Good afternoon, everyone. This is such an honor. Thank you so much for having me. I love my country I am somebody that knew what I wanted to do at a very young age in life I love it like she came out and she set the stage for exactly what you wanted to do

and brought everyone's guard down now Chris Voss one of my favorite guests of course he talks a lot about this like setting the stage with your first words and some of the big things he'll say is like when you're about to give someone harsh feedback

one of the things he'll set the stage with is like this is going to sound really hard like this really might hurt your feelings. And it's interesting how like, just certain comments of how you introduce what you're doing and saying or how you're doing it can really have an impact on how the message is heard. And my takeaway from hearing that whole scenario of her doing that was that Senator Warren slid in her DMs. And we've talked a lot about, you know, influencing and is it going away and how it relates to rewire talent agency and all that. It's like this is you and you've been

adamant. Like it doesn't matter who you are. you have president of United States, you're a senator, you're a Fortune 500, you're a CEO, you're raising Kane CEO, you have to have some footprint, some digital footprint, some kind of social media presence. So I thought that, you know, tying those two things together, like you said, setting the stage is amazing. But even to get on that stage, you have a, you have a senator that's cruise and Instagram finding this person, DMing them.

I mean, that's the way of the world that we live in. I mean, like, think about that. That is like, what a wild world that we're living in that like senators are DMing just like every day. individuals that it well Haley's not an everyday individual she's like a star but it's just crazy like the world that we're living in it's it seems like accessibility's at an all-time high right now like it feels like everyone's just accessible does that like even even like it's just like I don't know I feel like everyone's accessible now it in the the scary part is not even scary part

I think the thing that we don't realize is they're you're right they are accessible and they're pretty easily accessible and it's almost like invisible guidelines or feelings that make us think maybe some people are less accessible but if that person's not accessible and they're of some kind of stature they definitely have a team that's accessible right and it's like if you really want to if you really want to put it out there if you really want to ask a question like put your you know put your foot out there try and get an opportunity like there's a will there's a way like everybody is accessible i mean i get dms all the time for people trying to date you so you never pass those along i actually there there actually was one

that i was like you know what jay you never passed me you i've never passed along someone requesting a lot of them don't pass my test what's your test just the i test what's the the i test oh yeah click on their profile see what they're all about see with you know what you with their okay good vibes see where you're at your life i'm trying to put two and two together do you ever ask questions or no oh no i because i don't want to I don't, you know, did I tell you the time I went on a date and Evan, if everyone knows probably at this point, Evan's my business partner. He, he's like, oh, I want to meet her. So he came and met her. And he just started, he pulled out a notepad and started drilling her with

questions. What are your intentions? What, like, I was like, dude, chill out. Like, what do you do? It's like a skit. It was like, it was like a skit. And I felt, and I'm like, why are you doing this? He's like, well, I'm protective over you. I'm protective over you. I want to. guard your heart moving forward. I'm like, oh, my God. I haven't seen that. Unbelievable. Needless to say, that day didn't work out.

But maybe you know what? I'll have you come on one of my dates. Yeah. I've said, like, I've always, there's been like a part of me where I'm like, all right, if we're going to do this, let's just like make a series out of it. Can I talk about series?

Can I tell you what happened the other day? Of course. Okay, so I'm Valentine's Day. Which, are you a Valentine's Day guy? So really quick Valentine's Day story. I'm not a Valentine's Day guy at all, never have been. I told Ashley that. She was very understanding of that, very accepting of that.

The first Valentine's Day together, I came home from a hockey game and I didn't have flowers. And I was like, well, I'm not a Valentine's Day. She goes, I don't care if you're not a Valentine's Day. Guy, I want flowers on Valentine's Day. So at like 6 p.m, I think I had to go get flowers from a gas station because everyone was sold out of flowers. And that was a good lesson that I learned that it's not always about me. She respected it, but she wants flowers.

So I'm a, I'm a Valentine's Day guy as far as it is, me and Carter going to pick out flowers for Ashley now. And that's about, and that's about it. All right. I love it. That's beautiful. Meet in the middle. We went to a wedding on Valentine's Day, which is actually phenomenal. It was an awesome way to spend Valentine's Day.

Like, no. All right. So I'm judging. I'm going to judge right now. Yeah. Having a wedding on Valentine's Day. I kind of love it. It's like having a wedding on New Year's Eve, though.

Well, that's way different. Valentine's Day? But it's like you got, it's like now it's like, it's like, Hey, I guess instead of going on for dinner, we're going to go celebrate and have fun. We got to dress up all cutesy. Maybe go to get a little cocktail before. Maybe go get a little something, something. Maybe, you know, you're celebrating love on Valentine's Day.

It's amazing. You know what? Maybe you're right. The vibes were high. I guess you're right. Like, everyone's already going to dinner, so it's like you're going to a nice dinner. Your anniversary for the rest of your life is a day that you'd be celebrating like this anyway. I got an open bar and how I've never even, I've never even heard of that.

It was, it was good. It was, I highly recommend. Okay. All right. Well, we always talk money on this podcast, right? It's the main part of it. I put this on my Instagram, but Americans expect to spend a record of $14.6 billion on their significant others for Valentine's Day. But anyway, it was Valentine's Day.

That's back to the story. And I went to go, uh, volunteer at a dog shelter. And then of course, I have my eye on one. We'll see. Uh, we'll just hold that conversation for, another day. Yeah. But I was like, you talk about least surprising thing ever. Least surprising thing ever. Yeah. Obsessed with this one. Um, really bonded with this. Okay. So I'll stop. Um, but I had a, the other day I woke up. I was like, you know what?

Maybe I'll do this. Just maybe I will, um, buy an RV. Okay. Oh God. Get like a like a 500,000, like a sick RV. Right. right and go get this dog and like do a little series me and my rescue in this RV like going to different places in the in the United States hitting all 50 states maybe like doing a little podcast if someone wants to come state to state with me doing some content just like living out of a fucking RV with my new rescue dog and do like podcasts and stuff like it's the least Jason Tartick thing ever but I'm like why not like what else am I doing

with my life? I was people Jay and I haven't been able to connect in weeks in weeks it's been a minute and I feel like you're kind of getting a front row seat of like a phone call that we would have yeah I was going to stop you right there and before you brought up the RV thing

and I was going to say can you make me a promise Jay yeah can you not get a dog until you figure out where the hell you're going to live because you're still in Nashville and that was not the plan for 2025. And so I was going to come on here and I was actually going to grill you about it. This is my plan. Interesting. And to hear that you've, you've got it figured out in a really fucked up way. I'm kind of, I'm kind of here for it though. No, I'm, I'm kind of here for it. And then like wherever I end up, like, because I'll check all the cities out. I'll

just be like, that's where me and my dog are going to stay. Yeah. And like, dude, I could put the dogs. Like I could put, I could like, I'm thinking like dumb and dumber. I could have like, a picture of the dog driven like draw like i can't talk right now but do like a painting of the dog on the van yeah instead of like the sheep like the sheep dog van maybe do like yeah maybe like a trading secrets logo on there i don't know i'm in maybe we raise some money for rescues or something i don't know i'm team rv i see hockey families like get sick rves and said like they drive to the tournaments and everything yeah like they have it i'm like i'm like i i could see myself being an rv guy. But if you get like a sick one,

drive and sleep and maybe make a little studio and you could have guests, you could do guests right in there. We could do, I could do a live show. We could just pop the RV down and Trading Secrets fans. We can meet you guys in like Chicago or something. If you, I'm hockey season's over in two months. I will come on the RV

for like as long as Ashley will let me. Yeah, you would ask you, you could bring Carter. You could do like a trip from, we could do Rochester New York. I'm in. Like should I get an art? Okay, everybody right now, go on the comments, DM me, everything, whatever you got. five-star rating let me know should i do the rv series i think it would be uh relating it back to haley page i think if you did it you would come out of it a better person

oh yeah and i think i would i think i would also like uh uh yeah i think i forever in my life it'll be an experience i'd speak to i also think that you have to get out of nashville we've talked about that a long for a long time and this would force you to get out of there and you don't need to jump into something right away and be great. I mean, if you ever were like, hey, like, I have run out of places to go, you could just live in my driveway. Yeah, why not?

Actually, that'd be the coolest thing ever. Just going out to the driveway. I'm just going to park it for a week. We're just going to go golf and podcast and work out and you can work and we're just going to rip it. Like, why I don't know, part of me is like, why not? It's the least tart, J's dark thing ever.

I'll also tell you this, too. When I was volunteering at the at the dog rescue place. First of all, unbelievable what they're doing there. Like the owner, unbelievable. Shout out Catherine. Wags and walks. Unbelious. Just places unreal. We're going to do a project with them. So more to come on that. But I don't know. You know, I've noticed in my life, this also ties to business, is that like when you get the big deals and you make a couple good bucks or whatever, it's cool or whatever. But like, it doesn't give you this feeling. of like fuck yeah you know that like hell yeah and the more i start to give back and do stuff

for others and go volunteer and you know i'm working on possibly putting a foundation together right now it's like that i don't know that's like what's like it's really like driving my gears right now you know i'm saying i know what you're saying and i've been i think i've said this to you if not maybe i was talking to eva maybe something but i was like you know what why i think you're feeling this, Jay? You think it's for others. Huh. What? It's really for you. Like I feel what you're saying. You don't do anything for you ever. You don't. You do everything for others. The reason you're in Nashville was for someone else. The reason, like, you always are

thinking about what you can do for others and how to please others. You haven't put yourself first in a long time and you don't do anything for yourself other than what you would consider work, but that's not for yourself. That's, that's work. So, like, you don't do a lot of things for you. It's true. Yeah, like, I don't even spend, like, I make this money. You don't do any good money. I don't even fucking spend. You're like, what's the coolest thing you spend? I don't know. Restaurants? I don't know. No. You don't, other than what, you go work out. That's not that's, that's, like, work for you. Like, that's all part of it. Like, you got to do some things for you. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You're not part of it like a

country club where you're like take a day off you just go like hey like you don't do that stuff like good this could be it I'm team RV I'm like I don't know why I find this conversation so funny I'm just get I'm turning 38 to today now with the podcast

like when else am I do like I want to have kids I want to get married all that I don't right now I'm single as fuck like why don't I just go do it get a dog me and the dog just go take on United States roads listen, it's my birthday today and we are celebrating my birthday by announcing Jason Tardix RV tour.

Let's go. Well, we have not announced it yet. We're brainstorming. But yes, this is, this is a pilot, though. It is February 17th and we should have started with that. Happy birthday, David. If anybody doesn't know, this is the Tarduk family song. Every time we see someone, this is the birthday.

It goes, it's your birthday. Happy birthday. Happy, happy birthday to you. It's your birthday. Happy birthday. Happy, happy birthday to you. And many more. It goes longer than that, but that's abbreviated version.

Happy birthday, David, let's go. Yeah. What's one big birthday wish you got? What's that? What's one big birthday wish you got? To keep the momentum that I've created for myself going into 38 years old. Down 25 pounds has only had one drink in. sixth week. This guy,

David Ardowen, is a guy that is just ready to rip it. All he wants to do on his birthday tomorrow's workout. So he's reborn. For anyone out there that might be trying to reborn themselves, like you have in the last six week, what's the biggest hack? It's just doing it, man.

Yeah. Like, today, I shoveled the driveway for three hours. And I was like, Asher's like, it's your birthday. We're recording the Sunday night. So the day before my birthday, she's like, oh, it's your birthday tomorrow. So just started. like get taco bell you you love taco bell you've been so good you've been trying so hard jay i got taco bell i took a bite and i looked at her i said this taco bell doesn't taste as good as feeling

good feels wow i like didn't even finish it and i'm just in a different place where normally i do like crash dieting and like really get myself to a place just so i can like get back to being bad and like like i said to you before when we were before we hopped on i was just like all i wanted to do tomorrow for my birthday is like go to the gym and like just keep being happy with myself yeah and I don't snore anymore so that's been good I've had way more energy with Carter I sleep way better I'm getting active again I look better I feel better my clothes fit it's you know it's great so um back in the gym intermittent fasting high protein diet no alcohol that's pretty much it just dialed in reborn David RV Jason we are

soul back. The boys are back to town. We're back, wow. Well, this felt like a mini JTA. Yeah.

So this was good. Haley, if you're still with us, one hell of a guest. That was a hell of a part two. David, anything else before we wrap? No.

I mean, a couple, let's just, I had two more sound bites. These are going to be great clips. Stay humble in victories and gracious and defeats. And then you talked about toxic energy. He said the weight does not get lighter with

but your back gets stronger. You strengthen your resilience muscles and learn how to identify and deal with toxicity. I mean, I mean, dude, I got goose. I'm ready to go run through a wall. In fact,

it's Sunday night with Reborn David. I haven't worked out today. I'm going to, I'm literally going to go work out. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in. We got a lot to talk about.

We got other things to talk about too, but I don't know, like the Bachelorette, like maybe we have to bring Bachelor data back on because with the Bachelorette not being renewed. That's a whole different topic too. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think Grant season is doing well. That's a whole topic that we got to we got to talk about. I mean, there's a couple other shows that are getting some. I mean, love is blind as I think in in the news for all the wrong reasons. Interesting. I haven't. I'm so out of touch right now with all. I haven't, I haven't watched. Summer house just premiered fire. Is it good? Yeah. Interesting. All right. Well, here's what we'll do. We got Grant coming on. So we'll do a whole recap maybe with Bachelor data.

We'll talk about the business climate of reality TV, what's going on and and cheering for and cheering for Grant. I hope it goes well. Yeah. I had the pleasure of meeting him at, um, at his kickoff party. And we're a great guy. We had a really, really, really good time. So rooting for him. But we'll get that episode up.

We'll talk about it then. This has been a long recap, David. Thank you so much for joining me. It's good to have you back. And hey, congratulations on a reborn David and maybe RVJ. And it's, anything else before we wrap? No, we're going to, we're going to hit, hit end record and we're, I need to, we're going to talk more about RV Jason. RV Jason coming off off the record. Guys, please, please, please go give us five stars. Let us know your biggest takeaway. And should Jason go on a little, oh, ew, ew, ew.

What, third person? Ew. I just icked myself out. Never, ever do that again. Should I, I was trying to pose the question. I'm going to go jump Should I go on an RV tour Please let me know Okay, I'm going to go throw up Hopefully this was another episode of Trading Secrets One you couldn't afford to this

Making that money Money Playing on me Making that money Living that dream Making that money Money Play on me

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