Trading Secrets - 229. Haley Sacks: Combining her love of entertainment with finance! Mrs. Dow Jones on everything YOU need to know about all aspects of money, enjoying your life, and being consistent

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

This week, Jason is joined by financial expert, entrepreneur, and known to many as Mrs. Dow Jones, Haley Sacks! Upon entering the professional world, Haley took note of the content gap in the personal finance sector and decided to combine her interest in finances and her background in entertainment to make finance cool. Since then, Sacks has been helping a new generation of earners get fluent in finance. In short, she is making dollars make sense with a side of humor and pop culture to her millions of followers on social media. Haley has been featured in finance publications such as Bloomberg, Fortune, Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, CNBC, Forbes, MarketWatch, Entrepreneur, Barron's, Yahoo Finance, and more. Haley shares her journey from becoming a page for David Letterman to transitioning into finance, including her biggest financial mistake, side hustles, and her role as a creative social producer for Lorne Michaels. She discusses writing scripts for Fuse while working on Mrs. Dow Jones, creating her budgeting template Money Book 2.0, and outlining four essential financial steps everyone should take. Haley offers advice for parents, shares her approach to paying off debt, reframing a budget, and the importance of global exposure. She also reflects on her best and worst investments, provides credit card tips, and stresses the need for a personal money system, arguing that getting rich should be a simple process. With insights into the economy and the goal of working less, she emphasizes why money needs to be a constant conversation in our lives. Haley reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss! Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest: Haley Sacks & https://www.mrsdowjones.com/ Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Trading Secrets Steals & Deals! AquaTru: AquaTru purifiers use a 4-stage reverse osmosis purification process, and their countertop purifiers work with NO installation or plumbing and removes 15x more contaminants than ordinary pitcher filters. For 20% off and 30-day Money-Back Guarantee on any AquaTru purifier, go to AquaTru.com and use promo code “TRADINGSECRETS” UpWork: Hiring shouldn’t be a hassle or a drain on your budget. Upwork is your one-stop shop to find, hire, and pay top freelance talent—saving you time and keeping costs in check—all in one place. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free Quince: Vacation season is nearly upon us. This year, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve with Quince's high-quality travel essentials at fair prices. Go to Quince.com/tradingsecrets for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order. GEICO: Invest in your future by protecting your car, home, pet, RV, and more with GEICO. Get a quote today at https://on.gei.co/41ppSLv

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today, we are joined by financial expert entrepreneur and known too many as Mrs. Dow Jones, Haley Sachs. Upon entering the professional world, Haley took note of the content gap in personal finance sector and decided to combine her interest in finances and her background in entertainment to make finance cool. Since then, Sacks has been helping a new generation of earners get fluent in finance. In short, she's making dollars make sense with the side of humor and pop culture to her millions of followers on social media. Haley has been featured in finance publications such as Bloomberg, Fortune,

Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CNBC, Forbes, Market Watch, entrepreneur, Barrens, Yahoo, Finance, and more. Haley, thank you so much for being on Tray. secrets. And now I'm on trading secrets. And now you're on trading secrets. It's an honor to have you here. My gosh, an honor to be here. Congratulations on all your success. Everything, as I'm reading your intro, I'm like, this is everything I believe in. It's everything that I have so much passion for. And I love having people like yourself on because it also gives different perspectives. Like same advice, same idea, different takes. And for me, it's like whatever will click with someone, that's a win. So I'm excited about this. That's what I always say is like,

it's just about finding the right teacher. Yeah. Same with like working out. Like you have to find the right trainer that will motivate you. I think it's the same with financials. You just need to find the right person who can really get you going. Totally. I think one thing that's really cool.

Listen, if you're here to take notes, trust me, I'm going to get into the financial tips. We're going to ask. But a little bit of the career side, I find it interesting that your background is actually in entertainment. You studied, I believe, film in college. And that's like quite the detour into finance. So walk me through like what that detour was and why? Oh my gosh. I always say, like, you know, there are those financial gurus who are like,

I had a lemonade stand when I was little and I was turning the profit and I, you know, Warren Buffett bought his first stock when he was 11. I'm like, cool. Like I was skipping gym to buy bags on eBay with a fake username that then got blocked. I love it. And was like fully obsessed with looking rich, had no idea how to be rich and was like, oh, I'm going to Hollywood. And so I chose the major that has the least earning potential, probably, besides like an English major film. And then my first job out of college was I was a page for David Letterman, which is, I say like, you know, kind of the page from 30 Rock. Wait, tell me. Oh, the character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like a, that's where they set the good pages. Yeah.

The David Letterman pages were like a little bit, you know. Yeah. We were from the other side of the tracks. Okay, gosh. Yes, yes. How is it like working with him? So legend, by the way. I mean, like, legend. I mean, like, legend. And you sort of understand the gravitas of fame when you're in that environment because there would be some guests that would come in and you could hear a pin drop. Like, they took up the room. Just their energy. I'm obsessed with pop culture, with celebrities. So it was really amazing. What do you do? Like, we're going off a detour here, but like for Dave Letterman in a job like that right out school, how much can you make in a position like that? How much can I make in a position like that? Yeah, like would you get paid? No, I'm saying literally like I was getting paid hourly about like

$11. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then after taxes, it's about, you know, $7. Yeah. So I'm making literally nothing, but I did get free pizza on Fridays. That's cool. That was cool because we had a double show day and I was babysitting and I lived in a shitty Lower East Side apartment. Yeah. And my parents, I was really fortunate to help me pay rent, just like $1,000 a month from them. At like $11 an hour, obviously mom, dad are helping out with rent. You just mentioned that. You teach finance now. You do a great job of it.

At any point, were you in debt? Like, did you have credit card issues? Did you have any financial flaws early on? My biggest financial flaw was just illiteracy. I really lacked the confidence, Jason. Like, I didn't believe that I was capable of earning money, I being rich. I thought that it was this other world, this other language that was not for me,

but that someday magically I was going to get that big check that was just going to set me up for life. But like until then, I could just sort of, you know, rock and roll and eyeball it and, you know, who cares? And what you don't realize when you're living like that is you're actually like you're hurting yourself. Like you think that you're, you think that that is the better scenario than just facing your finances head on. knowing how much you can spend like I think in my head I thought this is way more cool this is way more fun sure but I've gotten so much peace from having financial security and from understanding my own income expenses all those things yeah the full circle is is really fascinating you go to letterman from letterman where do you go okay so letterman making zero money zero money also so bad at

my job because they and I met my best friend Pat there and we were both pretty bad because it was a very old school institution and so they had all of these antiquated practices that I didn't really believe in. Give me like one. Oh my gosh. Like we would have to go into Times Square and find people for the audience. Interesting. And the stipulations around what you were looking for I found to be like a little off. I'm not going to say what they were. Okay. Is that more of a production thing or is that, do you think That's like a Dave Letterman thing. Yeah, I think he's a legend. I'm not, well, no one's perfect, right?

No one's perfect, but I think it was, there were some weird things. So anyways, was not the workplace for me, but, you know, definitely not. And then after that, I worked at a Pilate studio at the front desk. I was a babysitter for a kid on the Upper East Side named Winthrop. I was doing stand-up comedy. Wow, really? Yeah, I was out every night in the Lower East Side. I was, you know, Allie Wong was performing at that time a lot downtown.

Like, I was with all of these people who are now, like, have Netflix specials with them every night. They're performing amazing. And really trying to make it writing, writing screenplay, writing a TV show, you know, just trying to break through in any way. And also had a YouTube channel called, that never took off called First World Problem Solutions. Okay. Where I would give solutions to First World Problems. And then I saw a job listing for Lauren Michaels, who started SNL, was hiring creative social producers, which seemed like the dream job.

And so I sent in that YouTube channel and I got that job. And that was where things sort of took a turn financially. Okay. Because I really wanted to do an amazing job in that role. And until then, I had just been sort of scraping by, getting away with just, you know, oh, like eyeballing it, whatever. I was never in debt, but I was definitely, you know, had no clue about my finances, was not thinking about my future, just, you know, living fast and loose.

Yeah. And then I, that first day, you know, when you have a full-time job, it's my first real full-time job. Sure. What do you want a 401K? What do you want to invest it in? Do you want health insurance? Do you want an FSA?

Like, what's going on? Yeah. And I was like, okay, cool. This is not English. Could not understand any of this less. But I do want... How long ago was this, by the way? That was like when I was 24.

Okay, got it. So I was young. And what is it real quick, the creative director in SNL doing this writing, what did that pay at the time? That was like $47,000. So again, nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still grinding it out entertainment. Yeah, I mean, entertainment.

And that was also, I was realizing too, I think subconsciously that following that track would leave me at the whim of someone else's decision of how much I could make. And I furiously wanted to have that control myself. Yeah. At that point, my goal was not as much making money as it was breaking through into Hollywood, figuring out, you know, how I could be seen as a writer, like things like that. But I think also deep down, I was sort of feeling that as well. How wild is it that you go from wanting so intensely to break through in Hollywood

to now being known as Mrs. Dow Jones? I know. Where was that breakthrough from entertainment to finance? Like what exactly happened? Okay. So that night, like after the first, literally the first day at that job. Yeah. I went home and I did what any self-respecting millennial.

I will admit, I am a millennial, even though I say I'm a zelaniel. Yeah. Owning it. And I did what any self-respecting millennial do. And I went on YouTube to try and learn, okay, what is 401K? What is all these things? And I was so bored. And I, you know, I have a dad who has worked on Wall Street for 40.

years. So I knew enough about growing wealth that I knew that it was not, you don't save your way to rich. Right. I knew Wall Street had a lot to do with it. And so all of the content for women was very like, here's how to meal prep, skip your gel manicure, make sure you're saving in the morning. Yeah, exactly. And it was, then the content for men was more about investing, but it was so boring. True. And so, and I didn't really see anyone that I wanted to be. You know, it's so important, I think, to like have a role model or like have someone that you're aspiring to be. And so I tried to become that. And that's a that's an interesting take right there. Like if you're lurk searching for something and you're in an industry where you don't see exactly what it is

you want to be, that can create an opportunity. Totally. That's your whole. That's your niche. And how long ago was this? That was like that like 25, 2425. And so I worked there for another six months, and then we all got laid off. And so, okay, so I had that night, whatever, where I was like, okay, there's something here. So then I just started to make content, like teaching myself. Yeah. I was like, okay, I want to learn about this. So start to learn and became obsessed. And it really, I just took to it. I was suddenly at brunch. I wasn't talking about Bella Thorne. I was talking about the end of brick and mortar. Like I was, you know, felt so smart and was so empowered and also interested. And I also felt like I'd been lied to because

I love celebrity gossip. And I was like, business gossip is just as good, juicy. We are missing out here. Like, why am I on the daily mail when I could be on CNBC? Like, this is good stuff. And so I went very deep into that. And then got laid off, which was heartbreaking. But I was like, okay, I can either go and like gravel for a job at Comedy Central, which I will make, again, 47, maybe if I'm lucky, like $55,000. Right. Or I can try and do this. And so I got part-time job writing videos for like rappers at the like your resume's wild it's really crazy at fuse you know yeah yeah so I was working at fuse in Times Square and I would like write videos for like all these music people have them do like crazy stunts whatever write it

all and then at night and during the day and around that was building Mrs. Dow Jones and that's a wild day and night it was a wild day of night but I was just so excited to, like, it was starting, sorry, it was starting to grow. And I was so excited because it felt like I had found this audience of people who felt the same way as me, where they had this insecurity or maybe like desire to learn, but they hadn't really found the right teacher. Sure. And that may be, you know, using humor and pop culture and all these tricks that I could break through to them and we could all get rich together. And so how long did it take for you? So you start doing this, you're writing videos and ideas for rappers, and then you're doing

Mrs. Dow Jones. How long did it take for Mrs. Dow Jones to become full-time? A year of working, like, every day, did not miss a day, did not miss a post, grinding, grinding, grinding, grinding. And do you post every day? Every day. And do you write your scripts up before you post? Everything.

I'm like so meticulous. Like, it's not a joke. Interesting, though, how your work in, you know, your early 20s actually came to pay off as you're writing your scripts today. And those scripts that you're writing are making the video so different. which is led to all your success. I mean, we'll talk about, like, the format. I think it's different now to, like, short video versus long form.

Like, I feel like that all is... The algorithm and everything is just changing by the absolute second. It's really crazy. It is wild. It's humbling. Why are they doing this to us? I don't know, but they're keeping us guessing. I think it's like the casino effect where they're like, we need to just, like, everyone's

got to hit a jackpot, like everybody now. And, like, when you hit the jackpot, you go back. And then when someone hits the jackpot, everyone's watching. And they're like, well, I want to hit the jackpot. So they stick around. I think there's, like, this gambling effect going on with the algorithm, like an addiction style. Oh, I'm full.

Right? That's actually so true. That's, like, what they're doing and how they're doing it. But it's crazy. All right. I want to ask you so you are. They're up to so much. They're up to no good.

But, like, we'll get there. We're going to figure it out. We're going to pinpoint this. You don't want, actually, let me ask you this before I go to some financial tips. you always part of your strategy is in the beginning of every video you will say who you are and what you do like your mission statement why talk to me about that oh I always say I'm Mrs. Dow Jones is a annual finance excerpt and I then I'll show behind me like press that I got or like something that shows that I have authority because you're establishing authority and credibility within five seconds

yes because there's so many fakes on social media and there's so many people giving horrible financial advice. And so it's a way to say, hey, I'm credible. You can trust me. All of these places have affirmed that I know that I'm doing great work, that I can help you. And so, yeah, that's why I do it. Okay. Before I get into financial advice, how long you're making 50,000 S&L? How long did it take you to clear that 50,000 is Mrs. Dow Jones? Oh, I mean, okay, so I was in, so New York Times, which, you know, really solidified, okay, I'm going to go full time with this, whatever. And then probably took me a year. Okay.

Well, a year to get there and then a year to a year, yeah, a year. But it was, it was, you know, the brand deals at the beginning are so slow and you think they're so big. Yeah. And you're so excited and they have probably nothing to do with your brand. Yeah. Like, I'm like, okay, I did like, my first brand deal was like a clothing brand. Like, I don't sell clothing.

How do I tie this one in? Exactly. And I felt very cool, by the way. It was like, oh my God, it's happening. It's happening. It's really happening. Of your products and everything that you have, You make more money off brand work or off the products that you, that you sell?

I honestly am pretty much equal. Okay. And so I have a budgeting template called the Money Book 2.0. We just released it. And it's really amazing because it's in Google Sheets. And so all of your data is safe. Like it's not, yeah, it's not like an app where you're own. I'm using Cloud.

I'm connecting everything. You own it. I don't see anything. It's all on you. Yeah. And you can automatically. upload all of your transactions, and it sorts all them for you and gives you a full financial plan, which is also crazy, like, tells you, because I really believe in being a financial

dominatrix. Like, I think that there is way too much choice when you're starting your financial journey. I don't think it's necessary. I think there are about four steps that everyone should do. So let's just do those four, start there. After that, get creative, finances, personal, you go, girl. What is the four steps? First of all, we're saving an emergency fund. Okay. Well, first thing would be we're getting our 401k match if that's offered because that's free money. Free money. Saving a three to six month emergency fund in a high yield savings account. Then we are paying off our high interest rate debt, which is any debt above 7%.

And I have a free debt payoff planner that will organize those interest rates for you. So if you're curious, like, where is my interest rate? Download the planner it will tell you. And then after that is max out your tax advantaged accounts because. I don't know why people would contribute to brokerages that are taxable when you can have tax advantages. So I'm like, do those. And then, okay, we're...

Then get cute. Yeah, we're really cute. Yeah. Get cute after. It's like when you're building the home, like get your foundation in place before you start worrying about heated floors, right? Yeah. Like, come on.

Let's make it simple. And we love a heated floor, though. We love a heated floor. We got to get there. We got to get there. All right. All right. All right.

way back. I got a lot of listeners right now that have newboards. So I want to talk to generational wealth. Generational wealth. Parents right now, they want to know what to do, how to say for their kid, what accounts, what advice do you have? Evan, you should be listening to this. You have a newborn. What advice do you have for moms and dads out there that are trying to put their child in the best position financially? Well, I would say, first of all, put your oxygen mask on first because your kids can take out loans for school, but you cannot take out loans for retirement. Yeah. And the biggest burden financially to a child is having a parent who they need to take care of because then it creates a generational cycle where they- That's the norm. And then their kids

have to take care of them because they're giving their retirement money to you. Right. And so the best thing that you can do is put your oxygen mask on first. It's a great piece of advice. And then, And then if you want to open accounts for them, you have to figure out what kind of account you want to do. So there's basically three main ways to invest for children. You can do a custodial brokerage account, which is a taxable, just straightforward brokerage account. You could do a custodial Roth IRA, which is like a regular Roth IRA, but it's for kids. Or you could do a $529 plan, which is money that you can use for education costs. But actually, Now there's a lot more flexibility with them.

You can roll $35,000 of the $529 plan into a Roth IRA for the child. If they decide not to go to school, if they had a scholarship, things like that. So those are a great account. And so figure out which of those you want to do. And then what's amazing with growing generational wealth is you don't need that much principle. Right. Like for my goddaughter, for example, Zia, when she was born, I put $1,000 in an account for her. I put $100 every month and I put $500 every year on her birthday.

And I plan to do that until she's 18. And then I will stop. And if she gets a normal market return, 8 to 10%, that's all we're looking for. We don't do get rich quick. Right. By the time she's 65, she will have like over $6 million. It's unbelievable. Yeah.

And that's a very, that's very doable, right? With those dollars amount, we're not talking about, put 100 grand in here and then 10 grand every year like a very very good consistency consistency so be consistent we have the accounts that you believe in now what about i like the idea of this whole uh put your oxygen mask on you talked a little bit about high interest rate debt there's a million models everyone's got an idea of how to pay high interest rate debt down if it's over 7% if anyone's listening to this right now and they got that over 7% they do step one and they do step two which model do you subscribe to to accelerating the pay down of bad debt

I am all about paying off your highest industry debt first. I know that there are some financial experts who say start with the smallest one, so you've got to win. But I want to get your debt paid off the cheapest and fastest way possible. I agree with you. So I'm like, let's not waste time, honey. Avalanche model. Go for it.

That's what we do. Knock it out. Okay. Budgeting. It's, you know, we're living in a crazy time right now, right? inflation. It was crazy. Now it's around 2, 3%. You got cost of groceries are up like 25% since 2020. The price of things have gotten out of control. So everyone wants the budget. But the word budget makes people want to cringe. They hear and they're like, oh, it's a curse word. It's a

curse word. So how do you make it fun? And like what tips can you give someone right now for budgeting? Well, I think the first thing with budgeting and I was that person too who was like, ew, budgeting. Like never. Like that sounds like my life will be rude. and like, guess I'm going on a budget. It means the fund's done. Right. I was that person. But then what I realized is like if you reframe it and just think about a spending plan,

you can actually put more money towards the things that you like. You just have to be discerning about cutting out the things that don't matter to you. Because you can afford anything, but you can't afford everything. Right. And I also think that what budgeting teaches you is patience. I still have tendencies to buy things that make me look rich. Yeah. But, you know, like, I like a jean jacket that has a product on it.

Like, I will buy a Louveton travel bag. Like, it's like, I have that girl inside of me. She's trying to get out. Like, we've done a good job of pushing her down. Tamer down a little bit. No, no. She'll, like, these are Chanel flats. Like, we are that girl sometimes.

But what I do is, that's been amazing, is I have automated deposits towards a high yield savings account for non-monthly expenses. Right. So, like, if I'm saving towards a trip, if I'm saving. if I'm saving for a new phone, if I'm saving for Chanel Flats, whatever it is, then I'm putting $100, $200 a month,

whatever, towards that. Okay. And I'm building up to buy it. So I, instead of buying the bag and saying, where's the money, I know where the money is and then I'm buying the thing. Okay, got it.

I think that's a great idea. I mean, so it's controlled. It's like, you know how you want to spend your money. You know that you like the Chanel Flats, but you're putting a system in place to say, I recognize it, I see it. I'm going to make sure that I'm, doing it the right way when it's time to get it.

And I think the biggest thing with budgeting, too, is really just focusing on what I call your action money, which is the money at the end of the month that you didn't spend. They earned it and didn't spend. That's left over for you to take action with. And at the beginning of your financial journey, that action money is going to go towards your emergency fund. Right. And your 401K match.

And then it will go towards that high interest rate debt once you get to that step. And then it will go to your tax advantage accounts. And then eventually your action money will go towards your, you know, you're whatever you want to buy, your home or more stocks or whatever it is. But I think, you know, there's a lot of rules, hard and fast financial rules. This is how much you should spend on rent. This is how much should be about your wants, your needs, whatever. But I think that if you can get your action money to 50 to 20% and you're, you know, under 45, that's really good.

If you're over that age and you want to retire when you're 60, 65, you do have to kick it up a little bit and be more aggressive because you don't have as much time in the market. Yeah. And that's just the truth. But, you know, I think instead of getting so in the weeds, just focusing on having that delta. Okay. The delta makes sense. The action money is cool. I like it 15 to 20%.

You had mentioned retirement. That's what that, you know, there's investing your own assets, your after tax dollars or even your pretext. hours, but then there's retirement planning. What advice do you have for people that are looking to retire at a specific age, like let's say 60, 65? And then also with that, like, people are like, where do I put my retirement money? How do I invest it? What advice do you have for them? Well, I'd say first of all, it's great that they know their age, but also know how much you need to retire. Yes. Like what kind of retirement do you want to have? Are you trying to be like private jetting from your ski chalet to your like London townhouse? Or are you like, okay, cool. Like,

I want to, like, you know, live a little bit smaller, but be able to get there quicker. Yeah. So I think it's important to know that retirement is a number, not an age. I have a retirement calculator free again, but we can link as well. So knowing that number is really important. And then I would say just, you know, working backwards from there with those tax advantaged accounts. Yeah.

So maxing out those first, maxing out your Roth IRA, if you have qualified for it, if not you can do a backdoor Roth. If not, you can do an IRA, doing your 401K, and just going from there. Okay. I love it. Now, people get, they go through the four set model. They then have their action money. Then they're matching their 401k. They're saving for retirement. They're in a good spot. So now they can get those heated floors. They get cute with investing. What type of, like, can you give us a little, we talked a little bit about the show? Can you get this little insight is to like, how do you invest your money, what it looks like? And then with that money today, it's a wild world out there.

Markets, like just this week, market's getting absolutely smoked. Like, where do people put their money? Oh my gosh. Right now, it's so crazy. It's like we're living in a wild time right now. We are. We are.

It is, it is crazy. I do want to get your perspective on that. But before I do, like where would you tell people to invest their money when they're trying to make money on their money? The biggest thing that I say about investing is, and I live by this credo,

is you do not want an average life. You do not want an average relationship. but you want average returns. You want eight to ten percent. And once you just live that, swallow that, that's your truth. Then you don't fall for get rich quick schemes because you're like, no, I'm good. I'm actually going to take, you know, just drive the speed limit on the highway and get there. And I'm going to get there.

Exactly. And so that is the biggest thing. I think especially right now, if you're on financial TikTok, which I am, it is a wild world. people are fully acting as though they know how to time the market. They know when the market will bottom. If it was Warren Buffett talking to me, who reads 800 pages a day and has been investing for like, you know, 70 years, yeah, I would believe him. But anyone else, no.

Like, it's not about timing the market, it's about time in the market and about staying consistent and not getting swayed by the news because really the financial media just wants clicks. Right. Exactly. And this is a, they're probably making so much money. They're killing it right now. They really are. They're absolutely great to be Robert Murdoch. Eight to ten percent, though, where do you suggest people get it? You say that you have a mutual fund? You have S&P and what do you think? I love a low-cost index fund. I'm really into VOO, which tracks S&B 500. I love me some QQ, which, you know, got to get that QQQQ. That's a technology index. And then I do like to also have one bond index fund too, which I mean, I'm 33, so I'm riskier with my portfolio. As you

get older, you, you know, add more bonds into your portfolio, less stock so that you have more stability. But I would do like 10% in that. And then I would also add a global stock fund. because right now at the beginning of 2024, the U.S. stock market is down compared to the global stock market. And we have been a leader forever, but who knows if that will continue and don't you want to be hedged? Sure. So I think it's good to have a little bit of global exposure as while. That's something that I've recently been committed to. You guys just got a full portfolio right now go build it. But I'm not a financial advisor. And if you take this advice, it's on your own term. It's on your own terms. If you lose anybody, don't be crying and Mrs. Dow Jones over here.

All right, you said, get rich schemes. Do you give advice to that degree? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. I think every portfolio wise, I think that's exactly what you said. The only thing is, I think you have to understand. When you go to a casino, I say, you got the one friend who will just sit there and not gamble at all, but he'll take the free drinks, right? And let's say a drink is 10 to 15 bucks. He has five drinks. You know, he made, let's say 70 bucks because he didn't pay for the drinks. You have the other friend that takes $1,000 and puts it on red. That person has the ability to lose $1,000 or have $2,000 within minutes. And that's risk tolerance.

And I think to build your portfolio, you really have to understand, like, who are you in that player at the casino? And then you can build the portfolio accordingly. But to your point, like when you make these high risk plays, there is a lot of downside, too. And we've seen successful investors slow and steady looking at the Northern Star as opposed to worrying about tomorrow, right? And there's so, like, how many people have lost their ass with these NFTs, with all these different meme coins? Melania coin.

Yeah, right? Like, what's that with Bitcoin, all, everything like that? We're waiting for Jason coin. Jason coin. That's not happening. But do you, like, do you, what's your take on cryptocurrency? Look, I think for me, it's not something that I am invested in to a big degree. Like, I have a small percentage of my portfolio in it that honestly was from about four years ago.

So, yeah, good timing. I haven't bought more. What percentage of your portfolio? Oh, my gosh, like under 5%. Because I really like, yeah, yeah, I'm, I take risk with under 5%. Like, and I will tell you about my worst investment too, but it's like, I have a little bit of money that I just play with. Yeah. But it's never gone wild, Jason.

Okay. Well, I wouldn't say I'm a stock picker. I would say I'm very good at like, you know, I know the rules and I, and I, they work. Yeah. And so, and I understand Wall Street. and I also have a dad who's a financial advisor and works with really, really high net worth individuals and he does the same thing for them.

So I'm like, okay, like if they are buying S&P, if they are buying like QQQQQQ, if they're doing all this stuff, if it's good enough for the billionaire, it is good enough for me. Yeah, perfectly set. All right, what was the worst investment you made? Okay, the worst investment I mean that I want to know yours.

Yes. Was during the pandemic. Yep. I was living with my parents, and I was doing about two hours of Tracy Anderson a day, which I don't recommend. And so I was always dehydrated, but you couldn't go to the grocery store and get coconut water, which is what I always go to for like electrolytes, whatever. And so I bought dehydrated coconut water powder from Laird Superfoods, Laird, the Surfer.

And I was like, oh, my God, this is genius. And I bought the whole line, all of his non-dairy creamers, everything that he goes. got, I was, like, Laird-pilled. Yeah. And so I put about, and then I was like, wait, Laird is public. I can own Laird superfood. Sick. Like, this is going to the moon.

Like, people don't even understand, like, what's about to happen with this stock. Like, meanwhile, didn't look at the fundamentals, had no idea what kind of debt they had, didn't understand, like, who was on their leadership committee. Like, had truly no understanding of the company at all was fully doing it based on instinct an impulse. Yeah. And of course, now that $1,000 is worth $90. Okay. So a $1,000 loss, though, that's not bad. It's not bad, but it was a worse investment. But I wanted it to be so much, Jason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You thought it was going to be like the retirement plan, million bucks tomorrow. Oh my gosh. Get rich fast. Doesn't work. It really doesn't. My worst was

it was in 2020. This is everything you don't do and everything I tell people not to do is by the time you hear news, it's already too late. Like the price is already baked into the stock when you hear the news. Like when you're seeing something, even those click, the financial... You should listen to your cousin who's like whispering. Right. If they're whispering, it's too late. And I didn't know anything about the whole NFT space, but I knew that it was like booming. And I had a NFT master.

He's like, you've got to go with this publicly traded company. They just IPOed. It's, you know, none of the financials made sense. None of the fundamental. And nothing made sense. But he was like, you've got to do it. Trust me. It's going to change your life.

And I put like, I didn't do a thousand. I did like, I did like, I think I did like $50 or $25,000. Oh, dang. Lost every penny of it. No. Every penny of it. And that was what I said.

I said like, listen, this is the advice you give. Like do not just jump into something, understand it. If you don't get the business. And I just, I just, it went to shit. So that was my, that was my worst one. What was your best one? What do you think the best return you ever got in that? But I will also say just on that, that every like good investor that I know has had that

moment. Yeah. And you need that wake up call because it rings your bell. And you know how many momentum things I've heard. since then, got to jump on this, got to jump on that. And then I'll do my due diligence. And I'll realize, like, that's a terrible move. And as a result of that, I didn't invest in it and all those companies popped and flopped. So that was a good, it was an expensive lesson, but probably saved me in the long run. Totally saved you. And I'm the same way where it's like,

if you tell me the stove is hot, I don't believe you. I need to touch it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. That's perfectly said. All right. How about your best in class investment or one that you're most proud of, like your Oscar of Investing? My Oscar of Investing, I would say probably in myself. I was, I, I, I didn't know I was going to say it. That is my, because the return on your business is huge material. Yeah. Like I have a really great team around me.

I have invested in like executive coaches to learn how to be a better leader. I've invested in people to help structure my business. I've invested in like, you know, I put a lot of money into myself as a CEO because I, being a creative, being a content creator is a completely different job than growing your business. True. And that's been something that I've seen a big return on because you're only as good as your team. Right.

And if you can't keep your team, then you have no business. Yeah, 100%. I love that. I think it's a great answer, especially with the earnings potentials and so many business right now, invest in yourself, you'll see the returns. I've asked, I've asked, but also invest in the stock mart too. But yeah, yeah, yeah, don't forget about that.

Yeah, don't go over the top. But anyone, I think I give any industry, whether it's an athlete, comedian, whatever, that's found massive success when I ask that question, it's almost always themselves, you know, because that's just, that's your brand. And no matter where you're working, even if it's for large corporate, you have a brand within that corporation. And investing in that will pay massive dividends within the company or outside the company. I think that's huge. All right, we got your best investment. We got your worst investment. What about like credit cards, bank accounts, brokerages, apps. Do you have any best. in class that you think people should look into? Well, I would say that there is like a money mizant plus, like when you cook, like when you see people on Instagram who are chefs, they always have their little bowls with the celery cut and the carrot and they have it all ready to go and they can put it in the pod and whatever. And so I always think about that with money where it's like you have to have all the right ingredients and places to organize everything. And so I think everyone should

have a checking account. Is there a certain bank that you, like, do you think there's a good bank, bad bank or anything like that? I mean, I think the biggest thing with checking accounts is that people have Stockholm syndrome with them and fully have the same checking account that they got when they were like, you know, got their first job. And they don't realize that they are paying fees. Right. And it is much more expensive to acquire a customer than it is. to keep a customer. That is so true. So a like five to 10 minute phone call to your bank could release you from those fees and it's pretty simple. How about credit? Do you credit card? Do you have like a credit card? Of course, like you have to be able to spend within reason and know your own

limits with it. It's not free money. I really, I mean, I love American Express. I have a really old card from my bank because you'd ever close your first credit card because that it's a Is that accredited? It is a credit tip. Okay, this is a great credit tip. So, you know, part of your credit score is based on your credit history. And so a lot of people, when they want to, like, improve their finances, will be like, okay, I'm going to cancel that credit card that I've had since I was 18

that I got at the college fair. College fair is that for those? They really got you. Like, you get a free pack of gum. If you get like a pen. Yeah, yeah, get a pen. He's a credit card. We're going to stick it to you for 10 years.

Thank you. How did that, like, that's so predatory. So predatory. Like, the fact they did that. Okay. I know. We really got to rethink those college books. Maybe there's an opportunity there for us.

Yeah, there is. There is. We're building. We should go like next to all of them and like protests out there. Yes. Speakers, don't do it. Don't do it. Or like undercover.

Yeah. Have like a little van outside with a near piece. But but those you say keep them. Okay. So the oldest credit card that you have, if it is a no fee card, yeah. Put a small subscription on it, $15, whatever, a subscription a month. and keep it active because closing it will hurt your credit score.

Tell people how. To, oh, and if it is a... But like how, why would it close it? Why would closing it hurt the credit score? Because it would decrease your credit credit history. So if I've had one credit card since 2016, and all my other credit cards I got 2020, 2023, whatever, if I close the 2016 one and they're looking at me as a lender, I don't have as much history, I don't have as much clout to them as like, oh, she's trustworthy

to give money to, you know? Like the examples you give. Yeah, like you. It's like being the senior in- Yeah. You want to get your cloud up, Jason. And as long as the card is no fee, it's so stress off your back. Yeah, that's true. You know, like you, so just keep it.

Like I have that, you know, stupid dingy card that is in my wallet. Collecting dust there. Yeah, collecting dust. And it increases and your overall like your total credit that is, right? So your usage rate is low. too. Totally. Yes. You got it all. You got the credit tips, the investment tips, the budgeting tips. What are your favorite credit cards? I mean, I think it all depends. You have to align it with your spending. And then I think you have to align it with just what you do at a day-to-day

basis. And I think I use the Amex Delta Reserve because of a big Delta guy. Big Delta guy. Huge Delta guy. So for me, that's what it worked. But when I was in college, and my biggest expenses were gas and restaurants. I used the best cashback. It was a discovered cash back. That's still a great card. Yeah, exactly. So I think it changes. I think there's a flavor of the month with credit cards, but I think you should use credit cards and you can be rewarded heavily for using them appropriately. And building your credit score is invaluable. Yeah. And I think from an app's perspective, I mean, I got to check out the money book 2.0. I want to give it to you. I want to check it out. But I think really amazing because

you need a financial home base. Yeah. You need, yeah. And whatever works for you. And who has the time to be like crunching these numbers all the time? They don't. You need tools to do it for you. But I do think putting on a little bit of sweat equity to your money home base is a good thing. Because for me, at least, when I did the apps and it was like, bleep, bloop, bloop. And then it was like, here's how much you can spend at the movies. I was like, cool, do you never? And through the phone down, yeah, bye. And so I think there's a little bit that comes with having to go through it.

Yeah. That's really good. And what's great, too, is once you have a money system, it really should just take you like 10 or 15 minutes to review every month. Yeah, you know. True. Yeah. And think about the impact that has. It's a huge impact. Yeah. Let me get you this. You hear all this financial advice out there, financial TikTok. What's the worst piece of advice you saw out there that people are like looking at and thinking through? Oh my gosh. There's so much. Like where do I start? Yeah. There's so much bad advice. Like there's so much bad real estate investing advice. Like take this loan and then you can buy all these rental properties and then you're going to be so rich. Like no. So risky. I've seen so many of you. being like, cash out your 401k and invest with me. I will get you 40%. And it's like, okay,

really bad. I would just say getting rich should be boring. And so if you're listening to anyone who makes it seem easy and fast and exciting, then they probably are the ones who are getting rich from you. That's brilliant advice. Brilliant advice. Let's talk about current state. I've seen recessions on the horizon. I've seen your content talking about what's going on. Tariffs are impacting the current market. If someone said right now to Mrs. Dow Jones, give me your update on the status of the economy. Give me a state of the union. What do I do in this market? Do I buy real estate? Do I not? Do I invest? Do I not? What's happening? What's your take on the current economy? I think that like all of the recession

news has put people into a personal recession where they are like so stressed out and feel like they are making that this is their one moment to get rich in their lifetime and that they need to like jump or yeah do so much stuff and like that making decisions from that place never leads to anything good i will say that there's two types of people when the market is down type a will get really scared sell everything panic yeah panic and we'll never get to ride the high up again Yeah. And then there's person B, and this is rich people who know that the market historically has always come back, have a long time horizon, are not being impacted by the news,

and are instead looking for opportunity to buy assets at lower prices because, I mean, I love a sale. Assets are on sale. Yeah. I would say for me to really want to buy real estate, the rates would have to be lower for me. But I think that if you're buying it for where it's in your financial plan and you're like, I'm having a kid and this is my dream to own a house and whatever, great, do it now. There's no reason not to, but in terms of like getting in on the investment, I don't think

there's any urgency yet. Okay. And I really just. Hold if you, do you think hold right now? Yeah. Well, you're saying, I think what I'm hearing too is you're saying, you can never time anything perfect. Understand how you react in these environments because a lot of people either panic or And then maybe your advice would be just hold a little bit. Hold, but no, it's actually just be consistent. Be consistent. Like, do dollar cost averaging because I think that there is so much pressure on timing the market. And really what I was saying with real estate is like if there's another like recession as 2% mortgage rate moment.

Yeah. Yeah. I might jump on it. Yeah. I might jump on that. But like, who knows that? I can't predict the future. I don't know if that's going to happen again.

And so it's not something that I am holding my breath for. Okay. All right. Hold, wait, see. It will just be consistent. Stay calm. And I would also say, like, you know, this is a very interesting time economically because with other market downturns and recessions, they can't really be pinpointed

as much to like a man-made problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this is really facilitated by tariffs. which are jerking us all around and the stock market. What's your take on the tariff situation? I mean, as Warren Buffett said, someone has to pay them.

It's not the tooth fairy. So who's going to pay them? Sure. Okay, us. Does it make things more expensive? Of course. But I also want to see if the tariffs, like I'm just sort of sick of being,

we're having tariffs. We're not having tariffs. Sure. We're doing 200%. No, we're doing no percent. The touch and go. Make a decision. Make a decision.

And it's so destabilizing of the stock. market because the stock market loves stability. Like people always say Jimmy Carter was like he has people would say, oh, he's a bad president. He didn't do anything. But actually, a good president doesn't do much. Like they keep things the same. Consistent. Yeah. And so, and that's how you keep the economy consistent too. And so, but I also understand that for many people, there's so much job and security and fear of layoffs and fear of how they're going to take care of their family. and with these rising prices, it's so overwhelming. And I'd say the best thing that you can do is make sure that you have that emergency fund.

Three to six month emergency fund more if you're taking care of more people. Because you need to put your own oxygen mask on first and make sure that you're going to be okay. Because, look, I don't have a crystal wall. I don't know what's going to happen. But I do want you to be prepared. Great advice. Because it is a it's a touch and go time. It's a volatile time.

Who knows what's going to happen. And every time I look at my app that's moving 2% one way or the other, like, it is a crazy world out there. All right. Well, let's let's, we got so much financial advice, so many trading secrets. Talk to me real quickly about like the Dow Jones brand from here. Mrs. Dow Jones, where do you go? How do you build the empire? What does it look like? Five years, 10 years. Like, what's the plan? I would say just reaching more people and then, you know, also finding more ways to make it easy to manage your money. I've seen so much success with the money book. And it really came from

designing a product that I felt like I needed, where I was like, I need something that can actually show me what I should do differently next month, exactly the places that I do need to think about. And so I see a lot of potential in that. And, you know, I think also trying just to break in more to the mainstream media, because I think money needs to be part of the conversation. So getting a seat at the table with people who maybe wouldn't talk about money and making them talk about money, that would be pretty cool. And you're so good at that. I feel like you got people to open up so much to you. Yeah. I mean, it's fun. I think you got to you're really a great post. To get people to like, you know, open up, you have to be open, right?

That's kind of part of like you have to show your cards a little bit. But I think the one thing that you're doing so well too is making money fun. And I think just even the example I've saw in your content about connecting the recession to Blake lively. Like it's a trending topic. It's real. And then people connect with it. And they want to be part of it. She is in a recession, but again, that is. People are very like, you are anti-Blake. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, no, no, I'm not anti-blake, but like just objectively, like, she is in a recession. Like people are, she is now her star has dimmed. Yep. And she is. Yeah. I'm not saying which side I'm on. Right. Again, I am by. Yeah. But I'm by. But she's in a recession. Exactly. And I think, and now people understand what a recession is.

Yes. And that's, people have to talk about money. They have to understand money. We weren't taught this stuff. It's so important. And I also think, you know, all the financial experts on and they come on, they get very technical. Like I'm talking to like a hedge fund or private equity guy, you're making this very easy. It's digestible. And I think what you're doing is awesome. Well, consumer finance is also so different. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. But I think you get so many of these people that are trying to teach through the lens of they're still working at their hedge fund. That's not understandable. It doesn't make it warm. It makes it a turnoff. Exactly. It doesn't make it warm. That's a good way.

putting. Right. So whatever these products that are coming, I'm excited for that. Whatever they are. We're going to keep an eye on those. What's your goal? The larger goal would be to be able to get financial literacy taught in the school system. Yeah. Like we just, it is unbelievable to me. That's not a mandated requirement. Totally. Just the basics. That would be like the biggest win of all time. I'll help you. But I also think, yeah, let's go. Let's go run the charge here. The other thing, too, is I'm big on financial transparency. I think the financial transparency gives us information so that people can navigate themselves in a better way, right? And if we're not talking about what we're making and how we're doing it, then the people at the top are really profiting off that.

So just understand different industries, what they're doing, how they're doing it, and take advice from people that are giving good advice. So we'll see what happens. The agency's good. The podcast is good. The book stuff's good. Speaking stuff's fun. I enjoy every bit of it. And it's fun to always talk to some of the space too. I would say one other thing that I'm working towards is working less. Oh, I need to do that. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm in the What's your screen time right now? Oh, it's like, I work all the time every day. Like, what do you think it is?

Oh, 24 hours. Yeah, I was going to say, I looked at mine the other day, was 17. It was 17 for sure. So bad, so bad. 17 is so. Oh, yeah, yeah. All right. Work less, but still make an impact.

But yeah, make money, but be able to like enjoy your life, take care of yourself. Yeah, I love it. All right. Haley, you got to give us a trading secret. So it's specific to you, your experience. It could be a financial one. It could be financial transparency if you want. It could be just any life advice, but you can't.

get it out of a TikTok tutorial, you can only get it from what you've done and how you've done and what could you leave us with? I would say negotiate your medical bills. That's a good one. I went to the hospital for, I broke my foot. And I had the biggest hospital bill ever. How much was it? Like 15K. 15K? Yeah. For a broken foot? No, like it was crazy. I was there for you. No, it was like I was there for so long, but it was their fault that I was there for so long because they were not like taking care of me. And then you actually go. through the bill and they have ibuprofen, $2,000. It's like all these things that are, if you get the line items of your receipt,

it is, they've really jacked up the prices and they will bring it down. And so I also tell this to all my friends who are having babies because they always leave the hospital and they're like, just getting absolutely crap. Yeah, it's insane. And so I'm always like, get an itemized bill from the hospital because just by doing that, that will drive down the bill and then also. call them an offer to pay in full for a discounted price, negotiate the prices down. So you'll get the itemized and then you'll call them and then you'll try and negotiate it

down. Yeah, but even just by getting the itemized, they'll be like, whoops, sorry, didn't mean to charge you that 5K. And it's like, okay, like, that is real money. Like, we do need to know where that's going. So in this example, you're 15K, what did you get it down to? I think I got it down to like 4K. Wow. That was good. That's unbelievable. And then I got, yeah, then insurance helped. but I, but it was because it was egregious, but they were charging me. Wow. Yeah. That is a great trade thing.

We've never had it. Yeah, you got to do, negotiate your medical bills is a big. Gossiate your medical bills. You got to, you got to. Learn every line item, call them, negotiate it, do it all. People are going to need a notepad for this episode. There's a lot of advice you gave. Haley, where can everyone find everything you have going on?

Go to finances cool.com to get the money book and also to get like all the free products that I mentioned, like the debt payoff planner. I have an emergency fund calculator. I have a lot of tools that will help you implement what we talked about in the episode that are completely free. And then I'm Mrs. Dow Jones, M-R-S, DOJ-O-J-O-J-O-N-E-S on all platforms. Well, unbelievable story from, I mean, working with David Letterman to where you are today. It is so wild how the pieces came together, but also inspiration for so many people

that are still trying to figure it out. Yeah, follow your heart. Yeah. And that was like the biggest thing. It's like keeping going. I think about that all the time with young people. I'm like just keep going. Keep going.

Yeah. It's another trading secret. Yeah. Mrs. Dow Jones. Thank you so much for being on this episode of training secrets. Thank you. Making that money, money, playing on me. Making that money and money living that dream.

Making that money, money, money. Pay on me. Making that money. Living that dream. Thank you.