Trading Secrets - 23: This Sh*t Is Bananas | Madness Behind MTV’s The Challenge Money

Episode Date: October 18, 2021

MTV’s ‘The Challenge’ 7x champ Johnny Bananas  talks all about his experience on ‘The Challenge,’ reality TV endorsements from bar appearances to Instagram brand deals, diversifying your income, and how he ‘never got a real job’ and ‘made a living doing nothing.’  For All Access Content - join our networking group for less than 30 cents a day! Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets, where today we continue a reality TV series with none other than, ready for this one, Johnny? The godfather of the MTV Network who has 20 plus, yes, I said 20 plus series. seasons of experience under his belt, the one and only, the Johnny bananas. I know your schedule's may have right now, Johnny, so thank you so much for being with us. Buddy, I got to say, if a hosting doesn't work out for you, you've got a bright future

pumping tires at the gas station, man. That's the best intro I've ever gotten, man. Thank you so much for that. Wow. And you should hear the intro before. That was just like an abbreviated version. So I think you know what to a person or two in the hosting world. So let me know.

And I know you got a PR rep on here. on he connects let me know guys you got put it out there you got you got you man uh and also just a quick adjustment i want to make i am not in fact the godfather that's mark long we like to refer to mark long as the godfather i'm the goat okay gotcha oh that's yeah see see what's interesting is i did the research on you and i just self-proclaimed you as the godfather not even knowing there was another godfather so that's how natural it was but we'll we'll have to adjust that to the coat i mean it works i mean i got the italian thing going for me so i mean you know yeah it definitely definitely works. All right. Now I have some obviously everyone, right? You pre-pre-prepared some questions and stuff like that. This is just kind of going right off the cuff. The bananas thing. Like you entered in the chat. It said bananas in clear font. I see your last name, got the Italian last name. Where the hell bananas come from? Why Johnny bananas? It's funny because I've had a few actual real-life run-ins with bananas in my life that are kind of just funny anecdotes that go along with the nickname. The first one being when I was in elementary,

school. Growing up, I was a big, I watched movies that I probably shouldn't watch when I was a kid. My mom was very liberal with the movies she allowed us to watch. Beverly Hills Cop with Eddie Murphy. I was one of my favorite movies growing up, right? And in one of the movies, I forgot which one it was, one, two, he's getting tailed by these cops and he stuffs bananas in the cop's tailpipe. And then when they go to tail him again, it stalls the car and it doesn't move. Right. So a light ball went off in my head. I was a mischievous kid. I was always trying to find ways to get out to going to school. I told him all I was sick and I put the, we have one of those old school like thermometers with the mercury inside of it. You know, I put it by a light bulb to get the heat

to go up. Oh yeah. And she'd come in and I'd stick it in my mouth. Little did I know that like 101's a fever. Yep. I had to see my light bulb. So it's like 150. I'm like, I'm not feeling good. She's like 150 degrees. Okay. You'd be dead. You would literally, you'd spontaneously. I was always just trying to find ways to get out of going to school. And this res, I'm like, this could actually work. So one morning before, before school, I stuffed a bunch of bananas in my mom's tailpipe. And I know that sounds bad, but I'm, you know, and the car started right up, lo and behold.

Got dropped off at school. I'm like, this is bullshit. She comes back that afternoon to pick me up, and she's extremely upset. And she's like, did you stuff anything in my tailpipe? I had to go to the mechanic because the car started filling up with smoke. I'm like, yeah, I guess I may or may not have. So that was kind of the first time I got in trouble for that. Didn't work.

So just kind of growing up, there was always a story about, about, you know, my son and bananas. And then it wasn't until I moved to New York when I was 17 after high school. I got a job at Banana Republic of all places, the Roosevelt Field Mall. And my best friend to this day, who I met there, worked at Kenneth Cole. We were both named John. So to tell us apart in our circle of friends, I became Johnny Bananas. And then that just stuck with me, man. It's just, it kind of just goes along with, like, you know, my personality type and, you know, how I used to be.

It's almost like, it's almost like destiny. We don't choose our nicknames. They find us. They find us. And then when I went on the real world, my first season, I was like, I want to go on as John, like, John from, you know, It's just like such a, such a, you know, vanilla, just regular old name. I mean, if someone dies and they don't know the identity, it's a John Doe, you know what I mean? So I'm like, I want to like separate myself aside, become a brand, hopefully someday down the line.

So I started going with Johnny Bananas and it's. I like, so you came into a reality show and you talk about self-proclaiming. Obviously, the nickname found you, but you walk in MTV and like, listen, you guys are going to use my nickname and it's Johnny Bananas. That's how it went down? Pretty much. Well, not even. I mean, I didn't even.

I didn't even say it like that. I just went on my, and on my original season, again, I wanted to be, I wanted to set myself aside, right? sure it was weird it was like even before i went on tv i just kind of like had this idea of like how i wanted to be different and set myself aside and it was like i didn't even know what branding was at the time but i'm like i want to become a household name and i want to be known as something other than john i don't want to get lost in the shuffle and um so i want to call myself that however it took a few seasons for the challenge wouldn't uh warm up to call i mean my first few seasons of the challenge i was john and then it went from john to john and then i was like can i be And they were like, no, we're not going to, we're not going to do that.

We're not playing that bullshit. They let Eric call himself Big Easy. I'm like, what the hell? So it wasn't until, I think it was free agents the season I did years back when there was another Johnny in the house. I'll never forget before we went for the season. I get a call from the production manager. They were like, all right, there's two Johnny's this season.

Do you want to be Johnny B or Johnny D? I was like, neither. I want to be bananas. And they were like, cool. So from that day forward, they started throwing bananas on my uniform. And that's kind of, you know, how it's been. I love it. So there was like a little bit of a struggle

because it reminds me when I was soccer in college and there was a freshman. He's a really good friend of mine. I bring him up on the pod a lot. His name's Hawk. And he was a freshman and he tells the seniors, they're all coming up with nicknames like chirping us, you know how it all goes. And he says, yeah, you guys can call me Hawk.

That's because his real name was Kurt. My nickname's Hawk. Singers are like, if you think you're going to fucking come on to this team and self-proclaim your nickname, you're out of your damn mind. But Johnny, your story reminds me of as you're talking, I'm like this is like a Ferris or 2.0.

but then after some of those mishaps getting the thermometer up to 150, I'm like, maybe he could have taken a lesson to out of Ferris Bueller's playbook. But you mentioned a bunch of your history already from putting bananas into the cars to working at Banana Republic and your time on TV. I want to go to your college years real quick. And my understanding is you were casted for your first show, which was the real world, 2006. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you were just about to graduate from college. So how did you get casted?

And what was your, your expectation coming out of college? I mean, I think you went to Penn State. Your expectation couldn't have been, yeah, I'm just going to go, you know, be a reality TV guy for 20 plus seasons. What was it? How'd you get casted? How'd you land up there? It wasn't not that, okay?

Okay. That was like what, that was like this could actually happen. It all started, believe it or not, I didn't grow up with cable, right? So I wasn't a real world fan growing, I mean, I'd heard about it. I didn't have MTV. I wasn't even allowed to watch the Simpsons most of the time. But like going into college, I mean, back in the day, it was like the only game in town was like the real world, the challenge, Survivor and Big Brother. I think those were the only reality shows out there.

Everything that exists today didn't exist. So being on reality TV back then was like it was a big deal. So I actually had a crush on this girl named Amy. I don't want to pump her tires up too much. Same drop there. She ran in our circle of friends, right? And every time I wanted to hang out with this girl, she'd be like, oh, yeah, come over to the apartment. We're just watching some TV.

And I'd show up. Sure enough, it would be all of her and all her girlfriends sitting around there in PJs watching the real world. And I'd show up. And I'd be like, oh, what's up, guys? They'd be like, shut out. We're watching it. So I'd have to just sit there silently and not talk until it was over, which is difficult for me. But I started why it was the real world in Philadelphia.

And I started watching this season. And it was like MJ Landin, Karamo, all these people. And I'm sitting, and especially what resonated with me was the MJ Landon relationship. I'm like, wait a minute. So these guys are like college guys, athletes, frat guys. They like to go out and party and stir shit up, drink, hook up. I'm like, and that's what I'm doing anyways. Like, these guys are getting, I might as well get some notoriety for it, you know.

So me sending an audition tape was just kind of like I'm a senior. It's February. I have zero idea what I want to do after this. I have no internships lined up. All my roommates are juniors who already have jobs lined up. I'm a senior and I've got a couple months left. I got no idea what I'm going to do after college. So I just kind of sent in an audition tape on a whim, dude.

I went to the IT lab and I rented a frigging camcorder. They still like the cassette tapes. And I did this whole video for, I did in front of Old Maine, which is like the iconic building on campus, which might I add Barack Obama because he was president of time, actually used as the same backdrop when he came to Penn State years after. I like to think that Barack Obama saw my audition tape and was like, could you imagine that Barack Obama is plagiarizing your creative? Imagine that shit. Wouldn't be the first time. Listen, Entourage did it. You know, back in the day, HBO stole my nickname. You know, it's not too far of a

stretch to think that that could have happened to. But I sent an audition tape. Yeah, back in February, I went through the casting process. It was pretty crazy back then. And then I ended up being cast in the shawls, one of 200,000 applicants that rose to the top. And then the next thing I knew I was in, I was on, you know, Key West for the real world that, you know, after college. That's pretty cool. And so your buddy's internships, they're getting jobs. They're getting paid their money. You land this, this dream gig for you. That fits perfect in everything you're doing. What is it like at that time, you know, bet on reality shows, done on cameos. Yeah.

Do you do one tomorrow? What was like a contract like back in 2006 for, for reality TV show? Do they pay much? Not a little. No, they paid you not even a living wage. They gave you what were called story rights and they paid you $350 a week, all right? Okay. But the thing is with reality TV back then is it was like it's almost like how endorsements go for athletes now. You don't really, it's not your contract you make money on. It's after, right?

It's what you do with it after. And this was before social media. So my thing was like, yo, I actually saw the real world as a stepping stone thing on the challenge. That's what I really want to do. I want to compete, man. I saw all these guys, you know, I'm like, dude, that is like my dream to be able to go on TV and compete and hang out and party and basically do what I'm doing in college and continue doing that. I was an econ major. I'll never forget. We had this exercise one day where our teacher's

like, all right, our professor's like, you can do anything you want and get paid for it. All right, it could be anything as ridiculous as you want. And I literally wrote down, I was like, I want to get paid to travel and party. And lo and behold, I somehow, managed to find, you know, a chink in the matrix, dude, where I'm like, I figured it out. You know what I mean? It's the power of manifestation right there. Dude, I did 100 bar appearances. This is back when, like, bar appearance is like a big thing.

We were like celebrities back then. And off the real world, I did six straight months of bar appearances. I did 100 bar appearances in like less than a year. I'm doing like 20 a month going all around the country, drinking, party. And I do six weeks of spring break. And you're getting paid, I mean, those, you're getting paid a decent clip, right? And you're actually low end, a thousand, high end, 10 plus. Yeah.

So, dude, I'll never forget. This was like back before the days, too, of like, when the TSA was really strict, right? So you could fly with whatever you want it, right? Buddy, I'll never forget. I would fly through, I'd have like $25,000 in cash in my backpack, all right? Going through TSA and they look at it and be like, what are you doing? I'm like, I, reality TV, I knew bar appearance. So you're paying cash, dude.

So they're thinking you're like selling drugs on the side. Little do they know you're just getting hammered at a bar making 25K in a week. I got to the point where because I usually got paid in a $1,000 increments, right, in 20s. I got to the point where when I got handed at the end of the night, a stack of 20s by a bar, they're like, do you want to count it? I'd feel like, no, this is good. I can literally tell just by the thickness of the stack if it was $1,000. That's amazing.

And it shows a little bit to change, right? So from when you first signed the contract, you know, $350 a week, what we've seen in every show we've talked to, Survivor, Amazing Race, Big Brother, The Bachelor, Bachelor in Paradise, we've had people come on and talk about them all, is that quickly your leverage increases as there's fandom and you build the following

and you have a lot more leverage when you're going on these shows to negotiate. So as a guy, I don't think I've, I don't think I know of any way. You might be setting like a world record here for most reality seasons ever as a cast member. But I have to imagine that from 2006, that 315, your leverage when you go into like a 20-21 season has to be like 20-X that when you're negotiating. Or do you still have that same mindset like, listen, this isn't a money grab.

I'm going on TV to build my brand. And then after it, I'll land one deal and make way more than I will filming for the next two months. No, no, no. I mean, the leverage is definitely there now. And I mean, the challenge has changed over the years, right? From what it used to be, I mean, the challenge used to be, again, spring break, dude. You're partying in a house with your buddies. the challenge is the physicality was kind of like secondary to the house reality and to the partying

aspect and it used to be fun man like it really did like you would go and it was like a vacation with your boys and you just got to go and just turn up and have a wild time awesome the challenge has evolved all right the challenge has now turned into a sporting event okay it really is like I mean they cast people and you know it often gets tossed around all the challenges the fifth major sport bill Simmons coin that phrase it has turned into a sport man And now the competition and the strategy and the game is in the forefront and the partying and the fun is come secondary. So it has turned into more of a job, right?

It went from being this, you know, this really fun thing. And over the years, I've changed as well, right? I mean, I've grown, even though it may not seem like it sometimes. I've also evolved and I've grown. And as much as I want to say, listen, I'm Peter Pan living in Never, Neverland. the challenge of my Never, Neverland, the cast members of my lost boys, you get to the point where I'm just like, now it almost takes more time, more effort than it used to. And again, I'm going on now and I see it as a job, you know? Is that because the prize pool? Because

my understanding, tell me a little bit of the prize money and I was doing some research. Again, you can never trust anything online, but you've won over a million bucks in prize money. So has the prize pool changed? Is that accurate? And is that why it's so competitive now? Because I mean, you're talking about big money here. You put it this way, dude. Back in the day, I had to win a challenge. Like, and that's why, I mean, I had, I was doing usually two challenges a year with my side gigs. I had to at least win one challenge a year to enable myself to continue just doing TV to make a living, right?

There's a lot of people that were like, oh, I got a normal job. I'm one of the few people that never has never had a normal job. Like ever, once I started doing reality TV, I never went back. dude i never went to to a normal job and i was and i tell myself i'm like if i want to keep maintaining my my lifestyle the way that i have to win right yeah because the prize money was 50 75 grand okay it has again evolved to the point where now it's a million okay the first prize it first prize is a million but it's it's usually broken down maybe 50 percent first place male 50 percent first place female or like you know 75 percent goes to the first place and then down the line

but dude like had i been winning at the clip now that i was back in the day but i you know i've won seven times you do the math so that's fucking so now it's got to the point where if you just show up i mean and again with the you know the stipend you receive is obviously you know elevated over the years again with more leverage you have the ability to to demand more money but social media has also changed the game as well when i first started doing the challenge social media didn't exist, all right? And it's good and bad because now it's like you can make money strictly off deals through social media. Your social media now is a litmus test and a measuring stick to how companies will be able to like utilize you for brand deals and for all this other stuff.

That wasn't around. However, every mistake now that you make on reality television, people have an instant, you know, a line directly to you. And yeah, dude, it's so that's kind of, kind of changes as well. So you're going to be a lot more careful now with, you know, just kind of your antics on reality TV. And that was, dude, when I started, I was the Wild West, man, anything went. Now things are, you know, things have changed significantly and you really have to kind of adapt to the times. And, you know, but there's also a much bigger pool of people out there too. When we first got off our show, we were getting booked all over the country, man, all the time, you know, because there was now there's so much reality television out there and the market

it has become so saturated that those appearances and the deals that we used to do aren't necessarily there. But it's almost better now because it's like I get paid five, 10 times to sit at home and snap a picture of myself holding a product or, you know, do some brand deal. Then I used to get to fly across the country and drink myself into oblivion for a night. And, you know. And was that the only way, Johnny, that you would monetize back in the day before social media? Because now everyone, you're right, it becomes an influencer. Was that the only way you do bar stuff? Or were there? there are other means of getting gigs that you would actually make some, you know,

quick money doing stuff otherwise? So it was mostly bars, clubs, special events, that sort of stuff, right? The college speaking circuit was huge back then, but I wasn't necessarily like the poster child for college. Yeah. They want people to come in to motivate our kids. They want people to come exactly and talk about like, you know, like issues or things that can resonate with college kids, I just would show up and be like, yo, you guys want to like

make a living off of never getting serious about life? Like, I got the, I got the blueprint for that. You know, like my parents to this day, I went to Penn State, as you mentioned before, I got a degree in economics from the business school. And they're still sitting here today and be like, so this degree that we, that we obviously help pay for you to get, are you ever plan on using that? Like, you know what I mean? To my parents, this may, I like literally went to college and got a degree and have used it for nothing other than, you know, television. Took my dad a long time to come around. My dad's like the old school, traditional, I mean, you know, Italian, you know, military.

Everything for him is in a neat little, little package. And he's looking at me, he's like, how are you going to make a living doing this? You know what I mean? When are you going to get a real job? When are you going to stop with this real world thing? And it took a while for him to come around, but my dad's finally come around. I've been like, all right, well, you've somehow managed to take this, like, mischievous nature that you had growing up and you've been able to now parlay that into not just a job but a career

and a successful one at that. My dad's always mystified as to how I've been able to do that. So you've brought, I mean, essentially you broke the blueprint that was in place a long time ago. You did it your way and no one else's way. Almost 40 years old. If an 18 year old, 20 year old comes to you and says, Johnny, I want to take the route you did or I want to do something different. What suggestion would you have to an 18 to, let's say, 23-year-old thinking about going to college or pursuing higher education while they're actually completely lost with what they want to do. I think that what I've always said to people about college, I always, I wasn't, I was a kid, didn't want to go to college, right?

I just, because I wasn't a big fan. Other than like the social aspect of high school, I hated school, okay? I hated going to class and having to learn. I was so much more interested in the social aspect. of school. I couldn't wait for recess. I couldn't wait for lunch. I couldn't wait to get out and socialize. So I just thought that college was just going to be another for eight years of that. It wasn't until I got there that I realized. I'm like, wow, dude, like the social aspect of college is equally, if not more important than the academic part. And I've always told people

who are going to college, I'm like, don't be like Mr. Bookworm that buries your head in your book all the time and it's always focused on class and you let your your social life you know struggle but you can't also be the other person you can't be the degenerate partier that's that's going to you know that's going to parties five six seven days a week um and then letting your your studies you know fail i was always like you got to find that balance okay because what you learn outside of the classroom in college is equally if not more important than what you learn in the classroom and that is this is the first time you're out of the nest right you have to make your own. If you don't want to go to class, you don't have to because you're paying

for it. But this is the first time that you are out, you're in a community, an environment of your peers, and it's the first time that you are going to learn and you're going to grow and you're going to be forced to basically blaze your own trail and make your own path. And what's really interesting now, and I think a lot of this is because of the advent of social media and text messaging. When I was in college, I mean, yeah, you had a cell phone, but like text messaging was in its infancy. dude like social media didn't exist aOL was like the aOL messenger was like the coolest way to like communicate with people yeah so there was still very much like interpersonal communication you know what I mean you go to a bar everyone wasn't sitting there on their phone check like you'd actually have to talk to

people sure what's happened over the years is the bandwidth people's ability to just communicate and have a conversation without using their thumbs has decreased substantially and now I think a lot of these Fortune 500 companies, these big companies, these big businesses that used to be looking for the 4.0 Harvard business grad, okay? They're now looking for like the middle of the road C student liberal arts major. And the reason being is because you could take one of these bookworm, you know, Harvard, or you know, not to pick on Harvard, but just somebody that is incredibly intelligent bookwise, but isn't street smart, doesn't understand how to communicate. there's so much more now of an emphasis placed on EQ and your emotional quotient and your ability

to like understand the human condition and talk and communicate with people than IQ. Because you take one of these high IQ people and you put them in a boardroom or a meeting or a sales meeting, they can't communicate, dude. And that's where a lot of the emphasis is placed right now. And that's what I'd say to a lot of kids is focus on that, you know. If I went into the challenge as far as like with my EQ and just being able to read people and understand and manipulate people. If I went into the challenge with a high school diploma, I came out with a doctorate. And that's what I like, the challenge is such an incredibly unique environment. And I like to say this, the challenge is one of the last remaining

true, truly reality television shows. Why do you say that? And I hate to interrupt, but why do you say that? Because when I see the show and my viewership, even someone who's been behind the scenes on shows on both sides, cast and production. Yeah. It seems to me it's the rawest. It is. So tell me why, though. And that's what I mean, because what's amazing about the real world and the challenge

is I've always said reality is stranger than fiction, okay? There isn't a writer or a creator or a producer that could in their imagination come up with the things that happen in reality when we are. subjected to the environment, the isolation, the personalities, the overall aspect of the show and the environment that we're put into. You take that, you add a whole lot of money, you add an incredibly complicated strategic game, and you mix all this together and what comes out the other end is stranger and crazier and more entertaining than anything that you could script. The challenge is not scripted. It does not need to be. Again,

because of the environment we're placed in and the personalities. And I think, I've always said this about the challenge. It's like you are in a shark tank, dude, okay? And only like the strongest survive. Sure. I was always like in my circle of friends growing up. I was always like the most over the top loudest in your face kind of center of attention type person. Right.

Now, you then take a challenge house. You now have 30 people who were all in their circles of friends, the loudest, most over the top. center of attention and you put those 30 personalities in the house together and then you have to try and rise to the top of that may have really does like it hardens you man and it really does force you to really change your ability to not just understand the people you're around but understand yourself how you operate in these in this crazy sociology experiment and how to manipulate and get the best of and figure these people out so the challenge like it literally teaches you how to be you know the master of your own domain. So then what happens is that, then outside of that, then if you are doing

a deal negotiation with that network or another network or any other thing, it's like you now have this ability to like read people, to understand people, to manipulate people. So it's almost like, you know, they're creating like a monster that then they have to try and control outside of it. And I feel like that's, that's kind of what's happened with me. That's like the best 2021 comment I've ever heard is that a reality show gave you the high school GED to the doctorate and there's so much truth to that. What about restrictions? Do they put any restrictions on like how much you can drink, curfew, stuff like that where the environment's more controlled? Like I said, a lot of a lot's changed over the years. Reality TV used to be the Wild West, bro. I mean,

we would go on and it was like no holds barred. But obviously over the years, things have transpired on reality TV in television in general, in society, that now there's a lot more, I guess you'd say like liability place. They need to be a lot more careful with people that they cast. I mean, we do cycle valuations now every season before we go away just to make sure because reality TV for all the benefits that it has, it can do a number on your psyche. And it really can break you down, man. And it's rough, dude. Like I've always said this. I'm like, I'll do a season of challenge people who've never done it come on and a weekend they look at me and they're like you've done this for 20 seasons like what is wrong with you you sit past yeah and I sit there and I'm like at first

I used to think everyone else was a crazy I'm like oh man look at these crazy fox like I used to think everyone the surrounding me was crazy but then I had to turn the microscope around myself and be like maybe I'm the crazy and I'm not maybe the traditional sense of crazy but the fact that I've been able to withstand the rigors the mental the physical the spiritual the emotional rigors of reality television for as long as I have, and not just survive, but be able to thrive in that environment. It's like, I don't know, man, I'm like one of those bacteria that can, like, survive on the surface of the sun. It's like, this should not happen, but somehow it still manages to do it. But I've obviously said this. I'm like, when, if and when I do pass, I should probably

donate my brain to science so they could study it and be like, let's see what the long-term side effects of like reality television on the human brain are, because there's definitely something. There's definitely something going on up here. We're going to donate Johnny Banana's brain to research. You're defying all odds, 20-plus seasons. I wouldn't still be here to talk about it. But you did say the word thrive. And I'm curious, what since you, because I've seen you've landed NBC Celebrity Sleepover,

and I've seen that you've been on the Food Network and you're on the travel, the first look show. So what opportunity, maybe it's not even like a hosting gig, it's an endorsement. what do you think has been the best opportunity financially and professionally that has stemmed from the 20 plus seasons that you have defied and you have made it through? It would have to be first look and it would have to be NBC looking at Johnny Bananas, the reality television guy, and seeing inside and seeing past the, you know, this persona that's out there and seeing the true talent and the potential that lay beyond me.

I've always said this about the challenge is, well, I'm not, I don't want to say that I go on and I'm a different person or on a character, but I am a more colorful, more in your face, larger than life, version of who I am. The reason being, the challenge is all about finding ways to find someone's vulnerabilities, all right, and to attack those vulnerabilities. So the challenge is all about going in with a suit of armor and a protective layer. And I've always used my personality and my sarcasm, my tongue in cheek, my abrasive. My abrasive. side that don't take anything seriously as a way to like keep people at a distance because you can hurt this persona and it's not going to affect me but if I open myself up and I should and I am who I really am the vulnerable you know sensitive part of me which a lot of people don't see you then can take advantage of that and that's then you're actually going to affect me and you're going to hurt me going on to first look and being able to land that job it was the first time I've always known that I was destined for things other than I don't want to say great than but other than the challenge in reality TV. I always knew that while the challenge was this

amazing platform and this great ladder to climb, I always knew that once I hit the top of that ladder, it's like I want to dive off and I want to go in a different direction. And I've always loved I wanted to take my love of travel. I wanted to take my love of human interaction. I wanted to take my passion for just like learning and developing and put that in a new direction. And when first look came along and they were like, listen, we have this hosting. gig available. We want to bring you in. It was like, it was amazing, man. It was the first time I felt like somebody really believed in me, man, and really saw my ability to do something other than the challenge. Because that's kind of how it always was with the challenge with MTV. It was like,

listen, we love you for the challenge, but we don't really see you for anything other than or beyond that on the network. So the fact that another network saw this potential in me and they gave me the shot. I've never looked back and it really has taught me to be a more complete personality, a more complete reality television person. Because before it was like, dude, the challenge is all about absorbing all the oxygen in the room, reality TV in general. Don't let anyone else get a word in edgewise. You're not, you don't listen. It's all talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now it's like I go over to hosting. It's the exact opposite. It's like celebrity sleepover. I'm sitting down with with these celebrities now and it's all about taking what the person says, really listening.

absorbing what they say and then formulating follow-up questions and making it entertaining, you know, and not just being the entertainer, right? Right. Being interested, not interesting. And that took a long time for me to figure out. And it was a very difficult road from me. But now I feel like because of that, I still have the, dude, the Johnny Banana is that the challenge guy. That is never going to go anywhere.

I want to ask you about that because if you use this as in this kind of a direct question here, But you use it as a launch pad, 20 plus seasons. And then you start, you know, you're appearing on the food network. And you're getting two hosting gigs with NBC, different network, doing everything you kind of want to do. What makes you go back to NTV, the challenge? Is it the money? Is it the opportunity? Like, what, what actually, like, why not use it and keep going?

So this might be a bad metaphor, but it's almost like, you know, like an old relationship that you had, even though you've broken up, it's almost like you almost, there's almost like, there's almost like, the sense of familiarity there. It's like, well, why would you go back? It's like just because it just feels not like there's no effort. It's like you know it so well. You know this person so well that it's like you, there's, you don't even have, there's no talk. It's like you just right away, just snap right back into all your,

the old, fun little whatever relationship that you used to have. And even though now you might be dating somebody else and you really, you might be treated better in your relationship. Yep. Almost like you always remember all the good things, you know what I mean? There's that nostalgia that you want to go back to and you know, you might regret it the next day when you wake up. You're like, what the fuck did I just do? But with MTV, I mean, with the challenge, that's how it is. Dude, it's like I spent a decade and a half of my life just put myself out there and building this persona and who I am. It's like I owe so much

of who I am today. The person I've become the man. I've become the personality. I've become the brother, the son, the boyfriend, like, whatever you want to say. I owe so much of that to what I learned about myself, about I'm being on reality TV, right? Like, I always say that the movie The Truman show with Jim Carrey. I'm like, I'm the real life Truman. I started reality TV when I was 22 years old. Here I am 38 years old and people have been able to watch me grow over all these years. And I'll be the first one to say, if I could go back and meet my 22, 23, 20-year-old version of myself, I would kick my own ass, okay? But what's given me the ability to change, and I don't, and I don't regret any of the mistakes that I made, because the things that

I did on, on TV, the mistakes that I made, the things I did right have helped for me into who I am today. And being able to see myself from perspective that very few people get to see themselves from, okay, and be able to, there's some cringe-worthy things that I've said and that I've done that I look at it, and I'm just like, thank God. Like, had I not been able to see myself do that or say that, who knows if I would have ever changed. But because I was able to, I'm able to take the things that I like about myself and keep them, things that only myself, I can crumple them up and throw them away. And I think through that, through the years of just self-analysis and just tweaking things here and there, it's kind of brought me to who I am

today. And I owe, you know, a debt of gratitude to MTV into the challenge for doing that. But, but again, you know, then you hit this point where it's like, all right, cool. like time to leave the nest man and take all this stuff that I've learned and now focus it in a new direction and people are like oh well why did you what like you're going back to aggression why do you keep going back to the challenge or what is it about it beyond the familiar the familiarity it's like because I want to accomplish more you know okay I've won seven times I won the most money well I want to win eight I don't have a ceiling where I'm like okay you know what I've done this I'm good something you kind of hit on though you talked about being mischievous

early on. You said you'd kick your own 22-year-old self. Sass. You'd beat them down. You had said that you've done things that you've been like cringe, right? And now you're kind of launching into an NBC business world. So one of the questions I have about that is we live in a very, an interesting world where the margin for error in this space when it comes to professional and financial means is nothing, right? One big mistake, one cringy thing and you could be done. Every brand could cut you off. It could be over. We saw it actually this morning. I don't know if you saw it or not, Dave Portnoy, there's some kind of sex video that got out. And he's a huge impact on a big publicly traded company pen. The stock is getting crushed. So I ask you, have you ever had a

situation in which you've lost out on a financial or business opportunity because of some of those things? And now that we're in this social media world that is so magnified, do you ever worry about, oh, man, if I go back into that world, it actually could somehow have. a severe impact on X, Y, and Z, and maybe the NBC thing might be gone, and financially that can be a burden. I'm thankful, and I'm lucky that a lot of the, I don't even want to say mistakes, but a lot of the things that I did that, like I said, were cringeworthy, were way back, like, I mean, we're preceded social media, and all this stuff happened before, you know, I'm in the position that I'm in now, right? And I feel like, like a lot of people, it's like I made

my mistakes. I made the things I did early on at a young age. And like I said, I was able to see the things about myself on TV that I didn't like and I was able to change them. And I like to, and I like to think that we are all a byproduct of the mistakes that we've made. And I've said this about when it comes to the, you know, going back to the challenge, my losses, the times that I've come up short, the times that I have failed had so much more of a formative impact on me than the times that I had succeeded. And again, I think, you know, there's nothing that I've said done in the past that I would, you know, that I would necessarily take back only because it was though, had I not said certain things or done certain things, it wouldn't have led me to who I am

today. I want to give you a standing O with it, honestly. Again, I think we're, we're a byproduct of decisions that we've made in our lives. And I think sometimes the bad decisions, sometimes the mistakes, sometimes the losses are the ones that change us and impact us and form us the most. I've always said to use like a boxer reference or whatever, it's not the guy that never gets knocked down that's dangerous. It's the guy that gets knocked down and keeps getting back up. And I think those are the ones who are the most well-rounded and, you know, the most ability, who have the most ability to kind of, you know, adapt and change with their environment.

Yeah. I mean, I am a firm, firm believer of all that because I think what we do is a society asks us to adhere to these pressures. And as a result of it, we put these protective mechanisms in place to adhere to be what society wants us to do. That was me 10 years as a corporate banker doing everything to put the identity out there. So it was perceived as success while I was deep-rooted and miserable. and exactly to your point,

if you're not willing to fall on your face, how can you get to the next level? If you look at anyone who's achieved big success, all of them have fucked up and fallen on their face over and over and got rid of those protective layers to find out who they are. All right, the last one we got before the trading secret, if you had to project, you got a mirror ball, you have to answer this question.

There is no way out. When do you think will be your last season on MTV, the challenge? When A, they stop, when MTV fails me, And they're like, we're either done with the show, we're done with you or when my body fails me and I'm no longer able to do it. So you're 69 years old and somehow you still have the biceps to be doing it. You're doing it. Buddy, I'm showing up, all right, with a walker with tennis balls on it, all right?

And I'm still going to be running circles around these new kids. Because a lot of people, they don't realize as much as like the challenge yet, there's a lot of physicality to it. It's all up here, man. I've always said this. The challenge, I've never been the biggest guy. I've never been the strongest. and I've never been the smartest guy, but what I have been able to do is adapt. And I think

that has been probably the thing that separates me aside from most people on the show and just in reality is my ability to just be a chameleon, man, and just adapt to my ever-changing environment. And I feel like I would find a way to adapt. And if one season, you went from a GED to a doctorate after 20 plus seasons, your resume is stacked. And like you said, it sounds like you learn from experience. So I think that's a perfect way to wrap up this like just unreal episode is to just give us a trading secret, something from your experience, financially, professionally, that you can trade with those listening and that if they Googled and tried to learn on themselves, they couldn't find it on some broken down website. I guess, I mean,

it's just going back to kind of like, to kind of like what I've said. I mean, I have always been a true believer in you get out what you put in. Okay. your vibe attracts your tribe. That is one of that, that is one of my, my favorite creeds because it really is, dude. It's like you, you're a product of the people you surround yourself by, okay?

And that's not, that's not by chance. If you, if you're a degenerate gambler, you're going to be hanging out with degenerate gamblers. If you are a finance whiz or if you're a money guy, that's probably you're going to, who you're going to surround yourself by. If you're me, you surround yourself with goats.

But I mean, that's just, and I've always just been a big believer in that, man, is, is, you know, just be the best version of yourself you could possibly be. Every day, man, work hard. Do a little bit extra. Dude, to this day, when I meet a fan out, out in public, regardless of what I'm going through, regardless of how bad my day is going. If they want to take a picture, if they want to chat, I will take the time to do that, only because I know how much that means to them. I know how much that could change them. But also, I know, dude, the power of positive energy,

that person then is going to tell 10 people or five people or whatever Johnny Bananas is such a great deal he took a picture he talked to me held my baby whatever I know from celebrities I've met in the past if they're assholes to me I tell everyone I know forever what a dickhead they were and I don't want to be that guy and I want and again I can't tell you how many times that while it may not happen right there in the moment it's crazy how many connections how many people I've met how many people have come back and giving me off opportunities, how much success that I have leverage based solely on positive interactions that I've had with people because that thing gets put out there. And a lot of times it comes back. Deals that I've had with brands or companies, I've gone the extra mile, I've taken that a little bit extra time. And they come back, like, we want to work with you again. We want to or we have this new, dude, first look. The reason I got the job first look is because I met at one of the challenge premier parties. I met a woman who does

casting for NBC. And I didn't know who she was, but we just had a chat at the bar. She's like, I'm a huge fan. We're watching the challenge forever. Little did I know that she does casting for NBC. And here we are when this job opened up. She's like, I want you to come in. I love you. I think you'd be great for it. And had we never had that conversation, who knows what I know right now. So, yeah, I think like the one thing

that's going to stick with me two weeks from now is the vibe is your tribe. I mean, I think about so many ways, how can you summarize that your ecosystem that you're part of it? And that's the best way to put it. Your vibe is your tribe. It's really good advice that can literally change someone's lives. But I think the first thing you got to do, like you said, is you got to be the best version of you. You've got to own who yourself is.

And then your energy will magnify those that you want to be around and provide resources for you that you otherwise wouldn't have. So couldn't agree more. Johnny Pananas, this is from everything of breaking down your name to getting in the weeds of the finances, to your professional career. This has been awesome. People listening to you that want more from you. Where can they find everything you got going on, your clothing line that's coming out, everything?

Let us know. Well, if you go to my Instagram, I have a link in my bio, and it'll take you to all my different. I mean, my YouTube channel, if you like cooking, if you like traveling, that's really what I focus on there. I've become an expert chef during quarantine. Twitter at Johnny Bananas, Instagram, at Real Johnny Bananas. Again, I have my YouTube channel, which is Johnny Bananas.

And then definitely catch me on Celebrity Sleepover on NBC, Saturday nights after SNL. And it's a fantastic show. And you're really going to, there's something for everyone, man. You're going to have a great time on that. And then we're going to get started. We're going to get the ball rolling here on First Look again, doing traveling. Travel is starting open back up. So the world better be ready because I'm about to be back out there.

Johnny Bananas is ready to go. it doesn't matter where you're looking. You're going to find them. That resume is stacked. You've got a lot going on. Thank you so much for being here with us today. Good luck with all your future endeavors in the next season, MTV, the challenge. This has been one hell of an episode of Trading's secrets, and we appreciate your time. Thanks for having me. All right, my man. Ding, ding, ding, ding. We are ringing in the closing bell with the one, the only, the curious Canadian David Ardoin. David, it is good to have you here today. You could not make the Johnny Bananas interview,

but I know you listened to it in depth preparing for this recap. So what do you got? What did you think? I thought it was phenomenal. I have some close friends of mine in Queens and New York who are diehard Johnny Bananas fans, and they're itching to hear this pod. So I know there's a lot of Johnny Bananas fans out there,

but I just thought he was great, high energy. And, you know, we've had a lot of entrepreneurs on that are prototypical entrepreneurs, business savvy, et cetera, et cetera. I thought that Johnny Bananas was so good because he had so many relatable takes. It really resonated. As a listener, you want things to resonate with you. And I think that he had a lot of life experiences, some of which I'll ask you later in this recap. But he was just so relatable and smart.

And, you know, one of those guys who's like, like he said, street smarts, sometimes overweight's book smarts. And he's made a hell of a career for himself in this field. Yeah, he's like a reality TV entrepreneur. I mean, you think about the amount of seasons he's been on, the way that he's been able to pivot being on the show to doing side hosting gigs. And this was at a time that you couldn't really be a reality TV entrepreneur because there wasn't the forum like social media today to really monetize and create. And he's done it unbelievably. It's energy is contagious, you know. It is.

And you say that. But I also think he, even though the platforms weren't set up yet, I still think he had the mindset. like he talked about, he wanted to be Johnny Bananas from the first season. Like he understood the importance of branding, which is like an entrepreneurial mindset. Like, like, you're like, you, you didn't think that you could go on and do reality TV for life. And he's like, actually, uh, yeah, I did. So he said that he was one of 200,000 applicants for the show. Now, I got to ask you a question.

How many applicants are applying for season of the bachelor or bachelor, and this is a two-part question. So I'm going to ask you part two after that. Sure. my understanding is it's like hundreds of thousands hundreds of hundreds of hundreds of thousands and then what they do is they must have some system to weed down the applicants and again my understanding at least what i went through is they have like a regional casting right so i got a phone call hey could you come up we do different regions at a time can come up to new york city so i came up to new york city and i met with them and ironically enough at the same place that i met with them hawk that season met with them now pretty when now listening, Hawk is one of our best friends. So we both went through regional together. And then what that happens after regionals, and at regionals, they take like pictures of you, they do an interview with a camera, and, you know, they'll ask you a bunch of questions. They're getting engaged on like your energy and who you are and are you camera friendly pretty

much. And then from that, they bring it down all their regionals. They knock it down to the top 50. And that's when we went to L.A. and we were in L.A. for like a week straight. And then from that 50, my understanding is they'll bring it down to like 40, 35. Some people won't pass the background checks. Some people won't pass the STD checks. They'll bring it down to like 35. And then at the night, they'll still make cuts the night of to bring it down to the final cut of who will actually walk out the limo. So you're talking, you know, needle in a hay stack to actually get one of these opportunities. So let's say the of the 30 contestants that get on the show for The Bachelor, how many do you think are from like a very like general, hey, apply to be on The Bachelor? And how? How many do you think are like recruiters, like casting directors, like pinpointing people, like chasing them to get on the show, especially in like a social media influence world now? It's such a good question. And so at first, I thought my answer to this would have been, this is very simple, David, when they tell you where they're from, if you see someone on the show and they're from L.A., but in California, it's likely they probably just got picked up. I know wheels.

Remember wheels for my season? for the season I was on. He was just shopping in L.A. at a mall, and a recruiter came up to him, and he came in fifth place. He did really well. But then I've also heard some people that have very unique stories, like unique stories, like really, really unique stories. They will find you, and it doesn't matter if you're in Idaho.

They'll try and cast you. That's interesting, Andrew S. was Clay's cousin, I think, and now you got Dean's ex-girlfriend being on the new season. I know way too much. I didn't know. I was excited. I didn't know that. Dean's ex-girlfriend. Dean's ex-girlfriend is on the new, the newest season that they're filming right now. No way. Dude, it's incestual. Think about Matt James. Matt James is just buddies with Tyler.

Yep. Just call me reality. He just got booted. He just got booted. Just call me reality, David. No, we're going to have to, I got a team. We're going to have to do an episode and the money behind dancing with the stars. Yes. Yes. The money that is made and dancing with the stars is bonnast. It's a good tease. And there's some, I'm going to call it out right now. The Miz.

I want the Miz on here because I think that guy's threefold. He's electric factory. The Miz is coming on here. WWB superstar. Dancing with the star, superstar. Where did it all come from? The real world. Unbelievable.

So speaking of the real world, MTV, the challenge. Really quick, numbers guy, money guy. He talked a little bit about $350 a week that he started out with. Now he's won a million dollars in prize money. And he very much alluded to you to you. you about, you know, some leverage and negotiation tactics that he's clearly earned in this space. What do you think he's making per season now contract wise from starting at 350 week to now? So I did a little, I wish I would have asked him that. I was feeling, well, I kind of,

I don't know, if you could hear me kind of pressing him to get that information. He wasn't getting. Well, you remember right when you finished, you texted the Trading Secrets Group chat and you're like, I wish I got a few more numbers from him. But when I listen to a bag, I was a very, I was a as a listener, he does. And I feel like we got a good amount of numbers. But, you know, this is where you're the expert here. You can fill in the blanks here. I'm going to fill in the blanks. And I think what everyone else should know is like I'm going to have a pre-interview discussion with people so that I know that I'm going to get the numbers on certain things before I interview them. But this is where we go in. So I did the research. It looks like on MTV, and especially in speaking with

Elena also was able to benchmark her numbers, you would get for a show like this, like the rookies, the new people are going to get in that $1,000 to $2,000 range per week. So if you have a show that goes for 20 weeks, you know, very crystal clear, you'll make about 20K. Now, the veterans are getting about 3 to 5,000 a week, right? So if you're making $5,000 a week at 20 weeks, that's $100K. And a guy like Johnny Bananas who has established credibility, built this Johnny fucking Bananas brand, I'm going to guess that he is making upwards in the 5 to $7K a week range.

however the only thing that makes me want to pull back on that is he was kind of like I don't fucking care like pay me whatever I just want to be back on TV so knowing that I'm sure on TV is smart enough to bring him probably that four range so I'm going to say 4k a week final answer 80k a season done 20 seasons he's now making 80k he's at 1.2 million of prize money he's probably clicking close to 2.5 million in just contract and prize money earnings on the show it's making that Penn State business degree looking pretty pretty pretty pretty good right now. Imagine for 20 years, I guarantee you. 20 years, you'll go on a show. You guys love, some hate, but you're going to make, at minimum, just from the show 100K here.

And you're going to increase your popularity. You're going to get these opportunities. And we're not even talking social on that. And we're talking like, dude, 20 seasons. We did. Now, I got to do cameos and shit on other seasons and stuff. But I was on for eight episode, one season. This guy, 20 seasons. Are you kidding? I just, I could go in depth about his, he did 20 bar appearances a month, six weeks of spring break, six months straight on the road, just grinding. Like, I mean, maybe me and you like 10 years later, 10 years prior, but I honestly, like, we're going to go party with this. I have to. No, the list of guys, the list of guys that we need a night out with that we have podcast with.

I mean, just add him to it. I'm thinking, I'm thinking back to episode two, Joey viral in Toronto. Yeah, like, think about Joey viral and get like Hugh Henney or day trainer on. Kevin O'Leary will, like, take care of the tab. I don't get Gary B or just be like, oh, oh, like it. We can have a fucking ranger, biz. And we out there, like, he'll be our security. Unbelievable.

All right, one last take that I want just to get your opinion on because, you know, you're one of my closest friends. And I know that we've been through some trials and tribulations and successes and failures in life. But, you know, you said in the podcast that you wanted to give him a standing ovation because he said a quote that was so great. that he thinks that we are all a byproduct of the mistakes that we've made and its successes from our failures.

Pretty deep from a guy who's kind of, you know, bouncing ball off the wall energy, but he's right. I just want to kind of put you on the spot and see if you have, you know, just a story for the listeners of, you know, a byproduct of the mistakes that you've made to get you where you are

or some successes from your failures. Yeah, I think, you know, when you're just asking you that question, the first thing that comes to my mind is that, I think for so long, I was so embarrassed by that. I was so embarrassed. I think we live in a world

where you're condemned for your mistakes. You are to be embarrassed by not creating perfection. We live in this world of social media where all we see is people's best days, they're good, all their success. To me, I was so pure pressured by that to live that same life, to live the life of everything's perfect,

not going to talk about my emotions, I'm not going to talk about anything going on in my life other than the good. And then I think what I quickly realize is you can do that for so long, but your mistakes and your failures will eat you up eventually. And that's what happened with me. I mean, I was living this perfect life, at least on paper, in a suit. And internally, I was eating away at myself, and I was miserable, and I was having severe anxiety attacks.

And I think at the end of the day, like, he's so right about that, that mistakes define who we are, and the sooner you own them, learn from them, and even speak about them, the better you'll be off. I want to go into this one last piece, and we can do a whole podcast on this, but sitting with buddies the other day, and we're talking about what it got deep. It was like, 1 a.m., just having drinks, just us, and they're like, what is the overall, like, what's the purpose of life? Like, I know that's deep.

Like, why are we here? Yeah. We had all different thoughts, and one of the thoughts that came up was happiness. I was like, I think one of our overall themes in life is to make sure that we are generating a good output, but in a whole we're happy. We're happy humans. And so we went around the table and we asked each other like, all right, name five people that you know in your life and be real that on like a happiness scale are 9 or 10 out of 10.

And between the three of us, we could not think of many people, including ourselves. And it kind of got me thinking like we're chasing such perfection and living through other people's lives so much instead of taking ownership or our own that it's like just tough to be happy. It's tough to be human sometimes, which is to be happy or human. Yeah. I think the more human you are, the more happy you'll be because the people we could name, they weren't very financially successful. They didn't have these big titles or careers. They're not making these like insane splashes in the world. Yeah.

But in general, like the core of their living is like just really happy. Yeah. And I think the more honest you are with yourself, the happier scale goes up. 100%. 100%. He said he, you know, he seems like a really happy guy. He said he's never had a plan. And he said he's a guy who's never felt like he's actually worked in a day.

And, you know, I'll kick it off to you for the finish. But one thing that I live my life by, and I've mentioned this to you before is I live my life by three rules. One, do something you love. Two, do it to the best of your ability. and three treat people the right way along the way. If you do those things, I feel like that opportunities will present themselves

and I never feel like I'm working a day of my life. So that's just something that I've kind of decided at a young age. So, but really, you know, the fact that we're in the weeds, thanks to Johnny Bananas shows how truly good of an episode that is. It really makes, really makes you reflect and look at things full circle from the entertainment value to just, you know, human nature. Yeah, and I think anyone in any industry can take some of those giveaways and apply them to their life direction, career direction,

maybe the decisions they're making financially and why and do a little self-analyzing to say like, you know, what are the things I'm doing? Why am I doing them? In my mantra, David, in conjunction with yours, is every day is such a great opportunity to find out more information so that you can put yourself tomorrow to be in a better position. And so whether it's falling on your face or having the best day of your life, every day you're gaining more information to put yourself in like a course correction to be on this like pursuit of happiness. I'd suggest everyone uses today and tomorrow is an opportunity to do just that. Love your takeaways, David, loved your breakdown. Guys, if you enjoyed this episode, please, please subscribe to this podcast and give us five stars.

Any feedback is much appreciated on the comments. Throw your Instagram handle on there. We will reach out to you. We will call you out in our episodes. We hope this was another episode of Trading Secrets, one that you could not afford to miss. Also, pay it to you. attention to my Twitter. I've been given out Starbucks gift cards left and right if you shoot me a text. So you can shoot me a text. You can say hello. You could ask us a question. David and I will answer that question. And every week I'm giving out 100 Starbucks gift card. So if you want to shoot David and I a text, you want to say hello or you have a question, just hit me up. And that phone number to do just that is, of course, my area code. I'm not giving up on it. 716.

215-2637. That's 716-216-215-2637. Thank you for listening to another episode of Trading Secrets. What hopefully you couldn't afford to miss. living the dream