Trading Secrets - 25: The Financial Risks of Being a Working Actor & Moving the Needle on LGBTQ+ Rights with Emmy Award-Winner Anne Heche & Heather Duffy

Episode Date: November 1, 2021

In this episode of Trading Secrets, Jason sits down with Emmy Award-winner Anne Heche and Heather Duffy, hosts of Better Together podcast. They discuss how Anne historically moved the needle on LGBTQ+ rights, motherhood, and the financial risks of being a working actor.  Trade Coffee: First bag free & $5 off your bundle at drinktrade.com/secrets promo code: SECRETS For All Access Content - join our networking group for less than 30 cents a day! Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr Produced by Dear Media.    

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by two of my friends, none other than the inspiring, bold, badass, herself, Anne Heish and her good friend, fellow podcast, co-host of Better, together and CEO of the Duffy co, Heather Duffy. Anne, you ready for this? I got some, I got some stuff for you here. And got her straight. Here we go. Let's pump your tires a little bit. And got her start on soap opera, Another World. She made her film debut in 1993, an ambush of ghosts. In 2002, she made her Broadway debut. Her performance of the 2004 movie

Gracie's Choice received a prime time Emmy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress and her acting in the Broadway show 20th century earned her a Tony Award nomination for best actress in a play all along the way. She has played an influential role in history on moving the needle for the LGBTQ rights. She faced many career highlights and setbacks that she discusses in her book titled Call Me Crazy a memoir. And we're excited to hear all about them and have this dynamic duo on. Anne and Heather, thank you so much for being here today. My tires are inflated. It is pleasure to be here. He said some things I didn't know. Oh, see, now that's right. And I write

your bio. I damn well can guarantee that she does not know what the heck, Gracie's choices. I do. No. I like to tease her sometimes, Jason, because she is, well, you know, before she became my business partner, she was my PR, and I tease her because she knows about as many of my movies as I do. That banter right there is exactly what I want to start off with. Because that banter that everyone just heard is exactly what I heard, and I heard that.

So Caitlin was on Dancing with the Stars with Ann, and I heard what they would have to do is Zoom calls because you couldn't meet in person. And I would hear you to like take it over the meetings, having so much fun. And I'll never forget, it was a Disney theme night. And Anne had a sip of wine. And you're talking about how you guys need the Mickey gloves and you got all these ideas. And I'm just laughing at like your banter back and forth. Heather's taking the wine away from Ann. So tell me about your partnership.

Like how did it start when you're on the show? What was it like? is it friends and business partnership? Break it down for me. In your lifetime, how challenging has it been for you to actually have a business partner or let someone into your personal situation like that, knowing how many people are probably out there, trying to get a cut, trying to find an angle, trying to use you as a stepping stone. And like, what was your process like to vet all these people out of your life? Well, it was difficult because I was raised in an upbringing that was very poor. And I think one of the things, there were very many complications

about my life, would you be able to read about in the book. But the fact of the matter is I ended up as a homeless child when I was 12 years old with my family. And the reason that I say that is to really deposit and understand there was zero percent guidance in my life. I was raised in a cult. So the only book that I could read was the Bible. And I was then taken through so many different moves in my life.

My parents running away from the government, running away from housing, running away. So I went from Ohio to South Jersey, one of the only people you'll ever meet who was raised in a life. Atlantic City, New Jersey. I'm sure there's not a people. It's a big place. There's not many success stories that come out of Atlantic City, New Jersey, and I was there when the first, when resorts went up, Trump's first casino.

But the foundation of having zero guidance made me very afraid of people. First of all, my trust levels were minimal. By the time I got to Hollywood, I didn't trust anybody. I didn't know who to ask advice, too. And I would say, looking back, this is something we'll circle back to. If I had understood, if I had the presence and the knowledge and the patience to listen, to hear, to think that what anybody was telling me, I probably would have had a little bit less rocky road from the outside looking in. So, but I would say, I mean, you said, how difficult was it? Very difficult.

I became the breadwinner for my family when I was 12 years old doing dinner theater in a place called Swainton, New Jersey. And from then also have raised my two families and supported both of the men who are the fathers to my children. So finding a place where I felt like my money, my success, and my being, my spirit and soul were protected was very difficult and I was very wounded along the way making decisions that I didn't have anybody to ask how I could get help out of. So it took me a long time. When I say a partnership with Heather now has been three and a half years, I'm 52 years old. And in order for me to find and trust, I needed to solidify the foundation of friendship. I hadn't had that before. I didn't, because I didn't go to college,

I didn't have a group of friends. I went into a soap opera when I was 17 and it worked 17-hour days and all of my friends were adults, but then I didn't have those when I came out to Hollywood. So the nurturing of the friendship, I would say, is what had to happen first. And as I nurtured the trust of that friendship, I was able to start to weed out the people

that weren't giving me good advice along the way. So that took time. That took time and some testing. And then when the day came. I didn't realize. I mean, Heather's like, wow, I went through it. I just came around for the ride. You wore my money ticket.

What is he talking about anyways? Well, we really started working more together on dancing with the stars, as you know, through Caitlin was a lot. Yeah. It was way more than anybody realized they signed on for. Do you mean like the time dedicated to dancing? Do you mean the administrative stuff? Like what specific?

The administrative, like just keeping up with all the where you had to be and where. And at this time, it was the height of COVID. And my PR business was highly focused at that time on restaurants. So I found myself with a little more time than I usually had in COVID. So I was available to. help her. She's like, will you help me do this? And we're probably not allowed to say this, are we? Because this is secrets, but... What do you mean? This is trading secrets. We're talking about the difficult stuff. That's what we're doing. Dancing with the stars paid me a little

stipend. Oh, nice. Damn. I feel like I should negotiate a stipend. They told us. They told us not to tell anybody that. So maybe we'll be in trouble. And now I don't think we can retro, I don't think we can retrofit the stipend that you got. But so it was, she needed help to get shepherded through because she's got a lot of skills, keeping up on emails and phone calls and calendars and what decision she needs to make. That's just not her forte. Funnily enough, it's not mine either. That's what we joke about. And that's the funny part. Like, I, all of a sudden, I'm the tech guru that has to put together this ring light. What do I have an engineering degree? No, exactly. Because when I would leave her with a box of, okay, so they would hand you all this technology.

Here's a camera, here's a light, and now we're going to do an international press junket. There you go. You guys take it and go for it. I was like, I'm going to go put on some mascara. I think I got to be in front of camera. Can you do this? I have a video of Heather surrounded by equipment. Three in the morning because it was good morning in America.

Everybody else had gone to bed. At 7 a.m. You guys, wait, didn't you guys stay up through the night? Like, wouldn't you drink in? What do you think? What do you think? We tried to drink less. But by the time Good Morning America came on, I have to tell you, Heather was flat on her back on the green sofa that's behind us.

But we were in a different house. I was on the couch. And I was making Mickey Mouse shows. I don't know what the hell I was doing. But it was the first time we were coming face to face with anybody else who was on the show. And then I'm like, Heather, who are these people? They were all glammed up, too. Everybody was, you're better put on some more blush or something.

I remember one would, morning America when you were like, you go. All right, I'm looking at everybody. Do we have Taylor Swift here? Is she in the show? And I was just dying laughing. Well, Heather said, and be careful because you're not going to know anybody. But before we're done with Dancing with the Stars, it was very important that we crafted your story because not a lot of people knew that. And we could talk about that later.

But I think that became the intent. What started was the shaping of understanding how to put my story, my understanding, and my belief system in place for people. And so Heather crafted with the producers a real kind of way for us to. I was working for them. Exactly. a way for us to kind of talk about what happened 20 years ago when I stood up for equal rights and the right to love gender free

and all of the things at that time because there was only gay and straight at that time. All of the things that were in between, which was me, talking about love and freedom and light and it did not connect the way that I thought it would 20 years ago. And we began to really talk about that clearly and succinctly once dancing with the stars gave us the opportunity to tell the story of Alice.

in a minute 30 seconds. In a minute 30 seconds. A minute 30 seconds we had. Yeah, well, telling that story was, I think, just beautiful. And it's something that I didn't know the specifics up. So it's great to see, like, I guess, like, maybe different generational gaps or someone that didn't, like, I'm so glad to that. The only thing I do remember, and I don't even know if you want to, like, at the end, me saying this just drop it, because this is just like off the cuff. I'm thinking of it. As I do remember, they told that story. And that was what kind of pissed me off a little bit is that was the same night that you went home. I was going to say, let's talk about this. I was going to say it. I was

going to say it if you didn't. It was bullshit. I come from a PR background. And I thought there's, even if you were horrible out there, which you weren't, you were great. They, from a PR perspective, they can't vote you off that night. And then when they did, I was shell shot. I was too. I wish they would have told the story like almost first week because to go home that night after that like emotional roller coaster. It was a very bad move. We left. We left. We left. We didn't do press. We left. Here's something that when you talk about trading secrets, and I don't want to slam the door on because it is, and it has been a pattern of my life when I speak the truth. So really some, I get a negative reaction and get shut down.

And because I had just told that story, it was a bit shocking that they would make the move on that very day. And what people don't understand as I was talking about being blacklisted, when I talk about blacklisted, what that means is after I took Ellen DeGeneres to the volcano premiere 20 years ago, four days after I met her, standing up for the. right for people to love who they want to love. I was fired from a $10 million picture deal. Wow. And I didn't do a studio movie for 10 years. 10 years, I was not able to do a studio picture. And people don't understand. And now, if we had the knowledge that we have now and

what would have happened then, I would stood the hell out of the company and I would be rich. Well, I say she's patient. She's patient zero in the cancel culture. Really? Yeah. Can I want to, can I rewind for one second? Because you said something that someone might not totally understand when you're bringing the magnitude of this. You said studio picture. So someone, a nurse at home or a teacher and they hear so, okay, that means nothing to be. What does that mean? I understand.

A studio picture means, but now there are many studios at that time. There were probably five studios. And I'm talking Sony Universal, Warner Brothers, Fox, and probably Paramount Pictures. But, and they've all, they now all merge because basically, uh, vodka companies on them, liquor companies basically on Sony. But what happened was I got my life saved by lifetime. Because now lifetime, you can say it's a network. It's not a studio.

So studio movies, which were being made at the time, which now, I mean, they're still being made, are the ones when you talk about studios, the ones you go to the movie theaters. They're like Blockbuster. That's the big deal. It's not necessarily blockbuster. It's whatever you see in the movie theater. But the deal is that he's trying to clarify is that you have an agreement for this amount of money. You have to make this amount of movies for them.

Yes. So after Volcano, I had already signed. a deal before I did Volcano for three more pictures to follow. And that deal equaled $10 million. I was fired from that deal, did not work in a studio picture for 10 years. And what was shocking about, and if I'd know, right, of course, I would have sued them. But we didn't know about equal rights. We didn't even understand. I didn't understand what was happening, to be quite honest with you, how it could possibly happen that I was being fired for taking a woman. That is what then set my life in order. The reaction that I got made me, did the exact opposite of what I think they wanted

it to do because they wanted to shut me up and shut me down. I was talking about equal rights, right? Well, they tried and instead, because of the reaction, I became more, just my soul became very focused and dedicated on the fact that I was going to find out why that I happened, what happened and what I could do to fight it in the real world. However, what happened the night of dancing with the stars and I'm going to want to connect to this. If I had gone on to another dance, I would have made thousands more dollars. Interesting. And what they did was stop the original contract, which was five weeks.

And they fired me before I could make more money. That, to me, was one of the most shocking things. People saw me get kicked off, which seemed like an accident. Nobody understood what was going on. There was a little kerfuffle, blah, blah, blah. Who does get voted off? The fact that I got voted off stopped me from. financially gaining any more money in the competition.

Oh, my. So that was like a trigger point because you lost this. So with that $10 million deal you lose with the studio deal, is that, was that after that you had walked the carpet with Ellen? I walked the carpet on a Thursday night. I was fired on Friday. I was told on Thursday night that I was going to get fired if I took her by a gay woman who was the head executive at Flach.

And by the way, it was a perfect storm because it was also the same week that Ellen famously came out on her sitcom. It was all the same week. I met Ellen. Did she give a timeline? I met her on Sunday night at the Vanity Fair Party for the Oscars. Tuesday night she was coming out

on her TV show. Wednesday, I was doing the press junket for Volcano at the Four Seasons and told that I wasn't going to be able to take her because they were going to fire me. Thursday night, I took her Friday. I was fired. Unbelievable.

And at this same time, she was up for six days, seven nights, and the studio didn't. want her now because they thought how could a gay woman be a believable, play opposite Harrison for it. And they went public with it. Ivan Reitman went public to the LA Times and said, I very much am against hiring after this movie. And that was a traumatizing Friday for me, as you can imagine, and for Ellen, because she was also told that it looked a little bit like maybe the Ellen show was going to be canceled. When I met Ellen, I didn't even know who she was. I didn't even know

she had a TV show. But the fact after she talked to me and said that she was coming out on her show, made me see love in a way that I had never seen it before because of my abuse. The trust and the unbelievable truth that she was telling is what made me made the decision. I only met her four days before. But when the phone rang on that Friday morning after I was fired, it was still when, and Jason, I don't know if you're old enough to know these things. The phones used to be on kitchen walls. Oh, I remember.

Your parents used to answer it when you got called from. school. So I picked up the phone, we were both so hesitant and nervous to even pick up the phone because everything was bad news. Yeah. And I pick up the phone and the idea, hello, is Ann there, is she, it's Harrison. Harrison, who? Do you know another? No, I don't. Because I had just met Harrison Ford that Tuesday. So now this is Monday. Tuesday, I met Harrison Ford. Wednesday, again, this is my press junk, Thursday. Friday, I'm fired. Friday afternoon, Harrison Ford says, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn who you're sleeping with. We're going to make the best romantic comedy there ever is.

And Harrison Ford stood up for me. And he is the reason why I still have the voice that I have today, not because I can, but can't sing my guts out. Because that made it something nobody else could ever possibly understand. He put the most famous lesbian who's not a lesbian in his movie

at the moment in the crux where somebody had to stand up and be a hero. And he plays them in the movies, but he's a hero in real life. He has given the opportunity for me to continue. Because he had the power to say, I want it to be her. I want her. He said, I'm more, he said, you know what, guys,

she's more interesting than most. And so you were essentially fired and because he stepped up to the plate, re-hired. He re-hired me. Wow. And then that was my last movie. Wow. That was my last, that was my last go to the movie theater movie.

Gotcha. I could totally see, though, where 20, 20 years later, this happens again. just brings you back to all his memories. Yeah, and now I'm, I have a movie coming out next week on Friday called 13 Minutes in my second disaster movie. And it's since Volcano. So it's amazing that I have this huge movie coming out. And in the movie, I play a mother who rejects her son for being gay. Oh my gosh. So this story and the history and the incredibleness that we talk about in timing in the world. My book is coming out. We are here. We are doing better together as a podcast. And

I have a movie. I'm back in the theaters. All right. So what's awesome about, so wild about your career, too, is, I mean, this is 30 years in a game where people get chewed up and spit out in 30 minutes. Tell me about the movie that you're in when it comes out and then who also stars in it and what we could look forward to. Oh, Heather, do you have the list in your head of 13 minutes? Who all is in it?

Amy Smart. Trace Atkins. Trace Atkins plays my husband, by the way. Peter Fatchnelli. Yes. Thorough Birch is in a. Anne Hates. And Anne Hage.

I mean, that's their, those are your headliners. That is amazing. What a career. There's some other actors in there that were fantastic whose names I unfortunately don't know, but they were so good. Well, Will, I mean, the boy who plays my son. I mean, again, and Jason, I have to admit, I mean, it's a little emotional for me because honestly, we just did the press junket for 13 minutes.

And Heather looked at me this morning and was like, do you understand how cool it is that 20 years later, it's unfortunate you still have to be an actress who tells these stories but that's why you stood up for what you stood up for 20 years ago and to be able to have the honor of being able to be now the woman you want to throw tomatoes out on the screen because this has to end quality has to be a part of all of our system but it's not quite yet and i was a part of that stepping stone as you said in your opening and thank you so much i feel very proud to be part of that needle and i feel proud to be two women who are continuing to stand tall and firm in that message and messaging that we do, hopefully with a lot of sense of humor and joy and light and laughter and kindness, but we're still doing it and I feel very proud to have this partnership for that reason. Well, I think it's been interesting the film because of the character you play, it opened the door to have these conversations about what happened 20 years ago. And I don't think that you've ever been like properly, I don't think that anybody's made it right. I think that what Anne did back then in making that stand for what

she did, somebody said, do you think you'd be treated differently today if you brought a woman to a premiere? And the answer is, hell yes. I'm the reason you can. I hope. And that's the reason why, because of the stand that she took. And people just kind of gloss over it now. And I just, I feel like there hasn't been that moment where, and I feel like it's starting to happen. I feel like people are starting to realize, like, oh, wait, that was not cool. It was cute because I did Sandra Bernhardt's radio show this morning. And Sandra, I mean, there's a funny thing about being a celebrity. We were talking about trading secrets.

Like, there are so many different assumptions that people make about celebrities or whatever. But of course, Sandra being the outspoken, unbelievable performer and comedian that she is throughout her life speaking of what, it's almost like she and I know each other. Sure. There's certain things. Like, when you see somebody else and go, wow, it's funny that we weren't friends, which is what we ended up saying. But the fact of the matter is, nobody stood up for me 20 years ago.

And Sandra said to me today, my God, I was like standing there watching and it seems so unfair what was happening to you. But because there was no, what were you saying? It was it was black and white. People didn't even. There was no gray. There was nobody saying like, I can love a woman or I mean. It wasn't nobody standing up for gender, love equality, all of it. You were gay or you were straight, which is why Anne was so criticized when she married a man.

They're like, what kind of lesbian are you? She's like, I'm not a lesbian. I told everybody I'm not a lesbian. Like, but that's the only thing that I said. You have the right to choose. So you moved that needle as well. And when you look at now that everybody can be what they want in all different variations of gray. It's nice to have been a part of it.

I feel like I have a little bit of a sewing box with the needles I moved. I mean, yeah. I think first of all, the partnership you guys have, I think is unbelievable. And then I love how Heather, the balance and the storytelling and the branding and marketing is just so important today. And Ann, it's so cool that you're doing it now in 2021. Thank you. You're doing it 20, 30 years ago. But I also don't want to leave behind a really important thing that you said. And it was about 15 minutes ago. But when you said that you were, and it just hit me, that you were 12 years old and the word you used, and maybe I misheard you, but you said you were the breadwinner

for your family at 12 years old. Yes. Working at a diner theater in New Jersey. Tell me what But working at a 12-year-old being a breadwinner means in like how you actually, what kind of money were you making and what was that process like and any life lessons you learned through it? Oh, you're so sweet. But the money I made, I wouldn't buy the shoes behind you. I'll tell you that. I, my family was kicked out of their last house when I was 12. So we came home and there was yellow caution tape like it was a crime scene. Wow.

And when I got home from school, this was in a little town and a little dry town called, in City, New Jersey. We kept moving down from Atlantic City, down the coast, running away from the landlords who were chasing us. And however, my dad, sweet talked to his way, my dad was a very charming man. He was a con artist, and he was, but he was really good at what he did, except making money. And so he had conned somebody into this house where we were. And at that moment, he had a borrowed Cadillac from his friend, and it was in the driveway. It was a stone driveway. And we, I got home to see my family staring at the house that was taped up. And we all had to get into the car

and we realized that we were going to be sleeping in the car that night. And it's a really odd feeling that moment. I had a brother and sister, Nathan, was five years older than me. Abigail is two and a half. And my mom and dad in the front. And we all knew, it was the end of the lie, really. Everything was going to come out now. And we drove into Atlantic City

and my father broke into a real estate office and took a set of keys, obviously, from a lover that he had. My father lived a double life and took a pair of house keys from one of the houses they were selling and opened it up in the middle of the night and told us that we had to go in, not touch anything and sleep on the floor. The floor. And we worked because the house was for sale and we got in the car before school the next day and took the keys back to the real estate office and went to school not knowing what was going to happen next. Fortunately, I was a singer in church and there was a family that owned a dinner.

in her theater. And they said, you know what? We're doing an audition for a girl named Anna Merle. I said, Music Man, and we want to know if you want to come an audition. I want an audition and I got the role. I got $100 a week. Nathan, my older brother, had told his friends that we had been living in a car and they asked us to come and live with us. And the sons moved into a one bedroom and put twin beds, three boys, all teenagers living in twin beds, Abigail, my mother and I moved into another room. And their daughter, Sandra, moved up to the attic. so that we could live with them. They thought it was going to be a couple of weeks

and it turned out to be a year of time as I collected $100 a week at the dinner theater and we started to be able to think about renting an apartment. It took us a year. My brother stacked newspapers until I got him a job at the dinner theater and our next show called Shenandoah and Nathan I sang together and sang up until the night he died. He was 18.

So 100 bucks a week can go a long way now. And I'll have to tell you that. It did. It began the beginning of my family, getting themselves back together. My dad died a year later, exactly a year later when I was 13 years old. And I started chasing the truth ever since. I knew that would be my life. I was by a dumpster, and it was really ugly, and funerals were bad,

and my brother died too, and it was all a mess. And I said, I'm going to start telling the truth of my life. And it did create the... So when somebody said to me, you're not going to go with a woman who's standing up for the right to love who you want to love. and I thought that was the whole reason my family ended up in the dumpster. There's no way in Hill, I was going to say, okay, oh, I won't take her. You need to clarify, because you said your dad had a lover, but what you didn't say is that the double life he lived was a gay man.

He was a gay man. He was one of the first men to die of AIDS in 1983. And the day after he died, the New York Times put out an article calling AIDS the gay disease. AIDS was labeled that day. So in that moment when his father, her father had just died, their family that was very involved in the church became lepers because they

he was basically outed in that article and that's when you had to flee to Chicago and then we had to flee because we were I mean we were my first wife it's quite a life because at that time at that time nobody knew how AIDS was contracted to

nobody knew about my life of abuse or all of our family's life of abuse people thought that if you breathe near a person I mean it really was it was a it was the COVID. It was a pandemic. In fact, COVID is very similar to HIV. But what happened was the doctors told us we had to wait nine years to see if we were clean. So for nine years, we all thought we were going to die. You're sitting there on pins and needles not going when I was 14 years old. Oh my gosh. So there was a lot that you couldn't say to me.

Like there are some people who are going to face things in life and go, wow, I have an option here. I say that choice is our biggest superpower. You can choose yes or no. And when I was given the option to stand up for something that I believed in versus going after the carrot that everybody thought I should. I was the it girl. I was it. I was everything. Whatever you want to dangle in front of somebody who says, wow, you made it. That's what they were dangling. And yet, the fact of the matter is, well, I was given the privilege of standing up for what I believe in and who I am is a creator today. That's when I became who I am. Principle over money, and that's what obviously put you in that position. I mean, I love,

your story is amazing. So many parts of the story, and I had no idea about, I want to ask you about you're undergoing all of this, which is so much for a 12-year-old and then a 13-year-old, that an 18-year-old to endure. I mean, it's unprecedented. How were you able to manage all the emotions that were going on in your life and then still working on your career and making, acting and seeing a priority, and somehow still accelerating your career? How were you able to compartmentalize that and do it effectively? Because it's unbelievable when you think about it. Well, I say, I mean, not to go out my own book, but I'm getting, you don't get two cups of insanity in and get to take one cup out. So what everybody thinks is a great big deal that I did

in my life. The fact of the matter is that's how much shit went in. It was that big. And my heart believed so profoundly that there was something better than the hatred I was raised in that I had to find out what it was. And to be completely honest with you, the belief in love is what made me do everything that I did. And the only way I could find it was. was if my talent led the way because that's all I had. And I have to say you are the most optimistic person that I know and to retain that optimism. Yeah, I knew it. I knew it existed. I found Heather, didn't I? I had my kids, don't I? So what was the first of you? Let your talent lead the way. Now, absolutely floored with your story.

And so you get to the point where now your talent is driving the new end, the vision that you imagine and the life that you're going to lead no matter who tells you what the rules are. you're going to break those rules and you're going to make it to Anway and you're going to stick up for what you believe in. Well, they did call me a wild animal set free from her cage when I came to Hollywood. It wasn't necessarily a really pretty sight. So tell me, like, some people, let's get into the industry a little bit now. Okay. Emmy Award winner, Tony nominee. I mean, the list goes on.

For someone that knows nothing about the industry, when was it or what was it that like really took your career off? Was it a certain break? Was it a certain audition? Was it being noticed? was it being noticed by the right person? Was it moving to a different location? What was it within this industry that put you on a different trajectory? It's a great story. What do you tell? I'm going to take this one because it's a great story.

So Anne, we're picking up where we left off where her father had died of AIDS and they had to move to Chicago. So they moved to Chicago and Anne clearly has taken care of herself most of her life realizes she has to enroll herself in school. Well, and my mom and I are in a little tenement apartment sharing a one-bedroom, just didn't you know. And then that's what I moved into and I had to find a school. So she saw school, it said high school, said Francis Parker High School. Little does she know that this is one of the most prestigious theatrical schools in all of Chicago.

So she walks up and is in the hallway and meets the head mistress and says, you know, I need to enroll in high school. And the woman said, how old are you? and she said, this is a private school. And Anne said, what is that? And she said, that means it costs money to go here. And Anne says, well, I don't have any of that. Long story short, they give her a scholarship.

Wow. So she goes to this school and joins the theater. And one night is in a play. Going wilder skin of our teeth. And Jennifer Beals also went to that school, and so did Daryl Hannah. So there was a casting director that got snowed in and said, what am I going to do? I'm snowed in in Chicago.

Let me go back to that school of Francis Parker and see if I can find any talent. And she saw Anne in a play and offered her a job on a soap opera. And so the day Anne graduated from high school, she went to be on another world. And that was the start of her career. Did I get it right?

You got it right, girl. That is so obviously super talented and then being in the right place and right time and then like sticking up for what you believe in to be seen. I mean, that's what a story. And I think that combination is what you're trying, I mean, when we talk about luck or it's preparation, it's opportunity, you know, there is nothing that means more than being available for the angels that come your way. The being available, but we were looking at a quote yesterday and it was, it was something that I will misquote, but the future isn't something you wish for. The future is the doors that you open.

Yeah. And the ability, and I say part of my naivete helped me. I wasn't strongly educated in any grounding to be able to understand which way the wind was blowing. I really didn't. When the casting director came back, I was in 10th grade. And she's like, do you want an audition for your soap opera? I was like, yeah, what is that?

What's a soap opera? I didn't have a TV. Tell them what you made on the soap opera. His audience, they always share. I was just going to be, you took the next question I was going to say, the question I was going to ask because on that soap opera. what did you make? And then the next question I was going to ask to follow that is, you know, you've worked with, you already said Harrison Ford, but Robert De Niro, Johnny Depp,

some of these big wigs. I'm wondering like that soap opera to like one of like the biggest deals you did. How do they compare and contrast? Well, the soap opera probably paid me 500 a week, I think. But when I, what was amazing was after I was offered the job in 10th grade, I didn't want to move with my mother. We were living in a very difficult life, very difficult situation. So I said no to the soap opera. The amazing thing is John Whitesell knew what my story was. We didn't even have a phone. We lived in an apartment building that was like a hotel that had a phone system downstairs. So there was a phone in between our beds. And that was the only phone that we had. We were so in debt that we couldn't get even a credit card. So John remembered. John called me back two years

later. And he said, I know what's up. And I know that you're going to be an adult son because you're graduating. So do you want to come in an audition again? I'm working on another show. So when I are arrived the day after I graduated. I was like, I got the job. John goes, you're an adult now. I fly to New York and he goes, and I go to Avenue M Studios, which is where the Cosby Show used to shoot in Brooklyn, New York, and walked through the doors, and I walked down the scene. I had this Bahama Mama T-shirt on, and I was a little, I call it shame weight. Like, I was a little chunky and weird. I walked into John's office. He's like, oh, my God, that's the same shirt. You wore the audition. You thought I was good to wear twice? Like, get that off your body. First of all,

Second of all, I've hired you, you audition twice because you're going to play twins on this show. And I'm the only one who wanted you. So don't prove me wrong. Now get down the hallway and get your sexy on because Vicki's the bad girl of this show and you're going to have to go figure out how to play her. So it was, I got, I started as Vicki at about 500 bucks a week. And then when Marley came on, which was faster than I thought, I got double. And so I was making about a thousand bucks a week, which is more money than anybody could have ever heard of. on a soap opera, the amazing thing is they can fire you after three months, but you have to stay

no matter what, you have no option to leave. And after about three months, I started to be able to, my character, I had to quit my waitressing job. I was so afraid I was going to get fired. I got a waitressing job on the upper east side of this swanky restaurant, so I go to for my rent. And pretty soon I was saying, I got to get off this set. I got to go set my tables. And then at the tables, I was like, oh my God, then people were starting to recognize me from the soap opera. The waiters were like, what are you doing? doing are you on a TV show and people would see me like are you actually serving me food aren't you you're serving me bread but you're on like what's going on and then i told if john was like

are you waitressing are you actually telling people that you need to get off the set to go and set up your dinner tables i was like i don't know if i'm going to be here very long he's like let me tell you something you the two most popular characters on this show would you knock it off quit your day job would you quit your night job your day job rains yeah And I started to be able to negotiate and make it very exciting to get. And I'm trying to think of what I went up to, but I would, I mean, by the time I left another world, I had the only contract where I was contracted for 365 days. I was the first person to win a contract that was an entire year long.

Wow. So that they would keep me the last year. So that you wouldn't waitress. That was really cool. And now let's skip to six days, seven nights. Well, didn't you do a lifetime movie in between then? Oh, no, Hallmark Call of Fame with Jessica. But I'm never going to remember what my paychecks were there.

But if you want to talk about the vast difference, okay? Yeah. Cut to 6-8-7 nights. Now, I was, I had done Psycho. I was starting to get popular, okay? I think for, I think for Psycho, I made $800,000. Wow. So this was where I was getting,

I was starting to negotiate these 10,000. $10 million. So I was going to do three pictures for $10 million. I mean, it was unreal. Yes, I had to do three pictures however long they took. But also, you're in a deal with a studio. It's as much like saying I'm blacklisted as the enlisted. Because if you're enlisted in a studio, all the studios want you.

Because you're the it girl. And when you're fired, you're the not it girl. And I became the not it girl. But when I was the it girl, it's that kind of money. And more so when it goes on and on and on. But because everyone was like, oh my God. Harrison said yes, so I don't know, negotiate the deal, just do it. They're like, you're not going to have to ask for any.

You are not asking for anything. Everybody, like, all over the press is like, we don't want to hire Ann H. This is no gay girl can play a straight girl. I mean, it was awful. So they said, just take anything you want. So, for example, I think for six, day, seven nights, I made $125,000. And for four months of shooting. What did Harrison make?

And Harrison made, and I know this because I used to make fun of him. He made $20,000, $20 million and $12 points off the first. first dollar made on the movie. So he would look at airplanes, which he likes to fly. Airplane magazines. And I would go up and say, can I just have like, I don't know, just give me 1% of your salary. Like, my God, you're banning a plane. Like, so here's like 20 million on this and you're making like 125,000 and he's getting points on the sale. I mean, you talk about like monster gap. But yeah, monster. And by the way, I'm probably, he probably made more than that. I don't think he could probably tell me if he was

good. But Harrison and I just want to say this and the reason why I feel comfortable saying this for anybody who is listening, Harrison Ford truly is my hero. I have done an honoring to him because the truth of the matter is that I owe him my public life. I owe him the opportunity to still be speaking on this level. It's not that I wouldn't have kept becoming and being the advocate that I am. But the platform that it gave me, I mean, when you say, talk about things that are worth it is worth so many more millions of dollars than anything that I could have made. But he did, by the way, buy a helicopter when we were there and I took his first solo flight. I got to tell you.

And he just made fun of me. He's like, you want some of this money? I love that. Full circle. All right. Before we transition out of this industry, I got a few kind of like rapid fire things I was curious about. The one was your Emmy Award. Do people, like, if you win an Emmy or an Oscars, things like that, or Tony, like you're nominated,

Do you actually get like a compensation for that or is that just a resume builder that like makes you more in demand? I, I, no, there's no money compensation. I won my Emmy when I was in Nebraska shooting a movie with Jessica Lang that you were referring to earlier. And I was at a motel 6

and it was right after I stopped the soap because I was going to go and be a designer and then there was like, oh, I got an offer with Jessica Lang. I talked about open doors, I'll go. So I'm doing old pioneers and I'm in Nebraska and I'm watching the, Emmys, and I win, and I'm eating a cheeseburger. I'll have a cheeseburger in my mouth. And I win. And I'm like, ah, now what? What do I do?

Yeah. And I was like, I was all alone in my room. Like, do I celebrate? That's how naive I was. Like, literally, I'm like, listening to them go, Anne can't be here to accept her award. I'm like, are they talking about me? That's so weird. It would be nice if there was money. And I was like, it would be nice if there were money. So, that moment, I would, I call my agent and I said, I guess I'm an actress now, huh? And then four days later I moved to L.A. You know what actually costs money that you might not be aware of is a Hollywood star? You don't just get those. They cost 30 grand. I think, wait, for the Hollywood stars on you to buy them? You buy them and you have to go through a process and get accepted. Wait, you pay for a Hollywood star. You know this would be such an interesting interview. These are secrets. Yes, you pay for it.

And do you have a Hollywood star? No, but Heather is certainly. Why do you think I know this information? Because I'm like, why don't you have a Hollywood star? So then I research it. I bet you that sometimes when you're in a big film, a studio might pay for that to make it a big. But when you see that, who does that money go towards the county of L.A? I think it probably goes to their, it goes to their business improvement district or,

30K to buy a Hollywood star. That's a trading secret. Okay, so one more thing I want to ask you about, so television, movies, or Broadway, which of the three is the most lucrative? Films. By a long shot? Yes.

Okay. If you're the it girl, if you're the not it girl, they're not very lucrative. Okay, understood. The last part about this industry. And also you got to understand film, I'm sorry, because you're asking specifics. Independent film is different than studio films. So when I said I didn't do a studio picture, so that's different. Now, people do independent films all the time.

They're the smaller films you see, the movies that I just, the one I have on Netflix right now, the Vanished. For example. I love that movie, by the way. Is, thank you. That's an independent film. So those are the things that create film festivals, and then people go and then the studios buy them or somebody where a distribution company buys them. So independent film, when people say, like, my God, if you ever looked at my resume,

so I want to clarify this. If you look at my resume, I've done a million damn movies, literally. But the difference between a studio picture and independent is the distinction that I'm making between studio movies. And the difference is major money. Because I can do, for example, usually an independent film, there are things that are called scale. And that's run by a union, and it's sag after.

So scale for an independent movie is something around, I would say, $50,000. Like if you're going to work for three months or something, the scale, the lowest budget is $50, say, around there. I don't know what the real rules are, but it's something like that. To do a whole movie? To do a whole movie. And there are different, you know, it's like on a TV show, they have different levels. So a day player makes about $7,000. So what you're really doing when you go for a contract role, if you want to talk the true secret,

If I'm doing the lead of a show, I make anywhere from $50,000 an episode, if I'm the lead, if I'm under contract, to $100,000. And some people make, I mean, we've heard all about friends and the contracts they made years ago, which is a million dollars. That's really not done it anymore. But some people make a lot of money, especially on the shows that are like CSI, and they run for year after year because your contract is getting bigger and bigger and you're getting more and more popular.

So those are the ones that, I mean, if that clarifies. And interestingly, during COVID, a lot of actors to keep their insurance. We had to take whatever we would take jobs. Like, you got dancing with the stars. To be honest with you, that was a big part of dancing with the stars. Not only a time and moment for us to share my voice, but really, truly, the only job that was being offered to, I feel so blessed because I got to keep my insurance because of Dancing with the Stars.

I have huge amounts of gratitude. It's a great way to balance. Was the insurance through the Dance with the Stars or was it that sad? You know, it's SAG after because I made enough money to qualify. You have to. There are not many actors. There are a lot of actors who did not, and it would be huge. How much money do you have to make to qualify for SAG?

I don't, it's different levels because there are different levels of insurance. Okay. There's the bronze. There's the silver. Like to qualify for your bronze. So, so, like, there's actors that we know that are well known that I know we're taking guest stars on TV shows to keep up their insurance. the insurance and the thing is what happens with that.

And they would get paid like 10 grand for that. Exactly. So what they do, what they know, what these companies know is, oh, you know what, we can get the big time actors now to come and do TV because we know what's going on with COVID and everybody needs a job. The problem is then they start to think that you can do the same thing the next year, right? So if I accept a job for 10 grand for an episode of television, unfortunately, it's called a quote.

And then people think that they can pay me that. Get you for the same price. Yeah. So, and I know that 10 grand. $10,000 sounds like a lot of money, and I also want to clarify that for your listeners. $10,000 for an episode of television when I do it and say I get two, so I was on all rise this year. That's $10,000 for six months of work. Yeah, sure.

And that's before agent fees, lawyer fees, right? Yes. So an agent's take 10%, a manager takes 10%, and a lawyer takes 5%. And that's, if you have a business manager, they take another 5, and we all know what taxes, you should do anything from 30 to 50 you weigh. once you start really looking at money and this is one of the most I would say number one thing that people confuse celebrities

is having is money it's a job we need to work now I'm not talking about Harrison Ford money or Johnny Debb I'm talking about working actors I consider myself a working actor and I feel blessed that I am but man making ends meet

is sometimes very difficult if it weren't for Dancing with the Stars and I will be completely honest right now dancing with the Stars paid me $100,000 that was what my paycheck was for the entire year. And that was one of the most difficult years I ever had. It was very difficult for me to get out of it. And I'm still trying to get out of it because of paying for private school.

The thing is with COVID, the bills don't go away. I had two kids in private school, one in two lane. And I'll tell you what, even though they were doing online school, I still had to pay $40,000 a year for both of them. So when you start looking at $40,000 a year in your $100,000 paycheck and you haven't even started talking about rent or food, things get very difficult, and it got difficult for a lot of people, including me. And that is an absolutely perfect transition to what I want to talk about, because both you two have done this, is that you're both working mothers going full speed and acting as a mother and guiding and leading your kids. And Heather, I know one thing that you did is you actually

started a school, a charter school, large mod, is my understanding. I did because it was after the recession and I couldn't afford private school. Yeah, I think that hearing Ann talk about the fact that last year was one of her most challenging years and those bills don't go away and knowing that you've taken your entrepreneurship to do that. Tell us a little bit about how you did that. I make the joke that it is true that I was struggling to figure out how I was going to pay for private school, but also in the neighborhood that I live in in Los Angeles, it was very diverse. So like kids would go to the park and you would see kids of all socioeconomic backgrounds playing together. But when they got to school age, the kids separated solely based

on their parents' socioeconomic status. So you could see what happens in the world, like right there, and then the playing field is not level. So we wanted to start, and I did it with two other moms and an educator, and we wanted to start a school that leveled that playing field and that gave kids the opportunity from kindergarten to have the same education. So what we did was we created a priority for kids who qualified for free and reduced hot lunch so that the school was literally 40% those kids. But then you had somebody that was

somebody like my kids. And then you had somebody that was, you know, like the head of Showtime. His kids went there. Wow. And so we started with kindergarten, first grade, second grade. And now we go all through high school. And those kids are going to Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, Stanford. They're kicking the butts of the private schools. I'll tell you what. They are. But Heather, you have this idea. How do you like, so anyone can think of that. Like, oh, I see. we need more diversification in a school system. And we have that here in L.A. It's a beautiful thing.

How do you actually do it, though? Did you have to raise money? Are you petitioning? How do you actually make the idea of a dream? We had to raise money. We had to write a charter. The hardest thing, which is what I was responsible for, was finding facilities.

Because in Los Angeles, finding a facility is impossible. And I actually had found this old Catholic school and they didn't want to rent it. But then I found out that the priest went to high school, with my father. And so my father, like, calls up the priest and it's like, come on, father. Like, it's a good. Anyway, so like, it wasn't easy. How about that is an answer? And we started, we raised $14,000 at a garage sale. And that's how we started. That's how you started the church

school. And now you have two campuses. I mean, we grew from there. And then we would have huge fundraisers. And now we have a, you have another campus. We bought a building. We have four campuses now. How many total students go there? Oh, gosh. I should have done this research. A couple thousand. Yeah. That's probably 1800, something like that. And when people are listening to this, do you, I mean, you hear things like, oh, it's a lottery. Sure, they pick names out of a hat.

I will tell you, my children could not go to the school. There's no frenzies. Well, the school will get shut down if we are not fair about what it is. There was no, you couldn't kiss anybody's ass to get it. The only priority you have is if you qualify for free and reduced hot lunch because it was very important to keep that dynamic. And really, the way that kids learned from each other and the values that they learned from coming from different backgrounds. And, yeah, it was super stupid.

It is just, it's phenomenal that you accomplished. It is one of the most coveted schools. It's very, I mean, Heather and I come from very different backgrounds, but the fact of the matter is our understanding, and, I mean, this goes back to you asking about our business partnership. The fact of the matter is when we became friends 15 years ago, we saw on the other something that was a fire, that drove our every single waking day, which is to create fairness and kindness among people. And how, and looking, and we would have conversations about, well, you see what's going on with education.

You see what's going on with spirituality. You see what's going on with violence and crime. And every single thing we would talk about, we'd start to try to figure out a solution or how we could add to it. And it's what got us, it's why we're not wealthy women today. Before we go to your trading secret,

because we wrap up every podcast where we get a trading secret from our guests. And it's something they can't see in a textbook or Google or find anything as it relates to career navigation of financial success.

We know we're fans, Jason. We're fans. We know the trading secrets. And I'm a fan of better together. I love being on better together. Before we go there, there's one I got to ask you. And it's about,

because people will listen to this and I know what they're going to think. I'm going to get in the head of my viewers. Oh, I'm curious. And they'll think something like this. Like, what if Anne wasn't noticed for her unbelievable talent when she was. Or I've heard people say to me, like, we'll have a couple drinks.

They'll pose to me. Like, imagine if Tom Brady didn't play football or Wayne Gretzky ended up playing lacrosse as a kid and not hockey. So someone out there that thinks maybe they could be an actor. Maybe they have what it takes. Or maybe they're funny. Or they have the talent. But they don't even know where to even start in the field. What advice would you give to, I don't a 12-year-old, an 18-year-old, a 24-year-old, a 50-year-old, anybody that's like, before I die, I want to say I gave that a shot. What would you say? Well, you have to take the risk to be seen.

Oh, I like that. And how do you get seen? I mean, first of all, I want to say that if you can be a girl who was born into a sex call in Aurora, Ohio, and get homeless in Atlantic City and become the it girl and then the not it girl and then the better together girl, you can. pretty much do anything. Okay. Oh, I'm clapping. What a good answer. Get seen and just do it. But I would say it starts in local theater, not that I'm an actor.

When I say, be seen what that means is, do you know what I did? And this is someone was against my one. Every Sunday I had to sing in church. No, I had to sing in church. It was my only outlet. I couldn't wait to get out of the house. The house was abused in getting up on stage and singing. Even if I sing the same amazing grace, anyway, I did it. Now, finally enough, I was seen in church. And there are the blessings. Again, now we're talking about the doors that opened to angels. You also have to say, yes, that's your second risk. Wait, I will go audition.

Okay, I'm listening to that. If you're seen and you're putting your light and shining it into the face and the eyes of those that can receive it, then you will be met with who you are. For me, I have to, for me, I say you've got to be 100% you, though. There's not a little bit of love and hate. There's not even a 0% part of hate in love. And with yourself, I would say the challenges, especially in anything that you're trying to do, you've got to be 100% in check with who you are, making the decisions for yourself that you think

are best, which takes an agreement principle with yourself about what you're about and purpose. And we need to and want to encourage purpose, and not only our listeners, I'm better together, but with everybody, because once you command your own purpose, then your heart, your mind, and your body start to follow that through, and you're the only one who can let you down on that. You're never going to hit the other mark of meeting the 100% of what you want unless you're 100% available for it. That hits not only on, I think, acting, but almost any industry. Like have that agreement policy, be seen and put yourself in a position to be seen. All right, let's wrap up with two trading secrets.

We have these bad ass women that have been through it all, working mothers, successful business partners, crush in Hollywood. They say no to the star because it's too damn expensive and now we know I fucking love it. All right. We're going to get a star. trading secret, Heather. And why don't we start with you, Heather? Give me a trading secret that you could share with our listeners who are looking to make differences and changes in their career development or financial success. I think that people often have the misconception that kindness is weakness in business. And I think that in business and life, it's all about building

relationships. And building relationships is all about trust, how we talked about. So my trading secret is what I say on our show, which is don't be a dick. I love that. And it applies to business. It applies to life. People want to work with somebody who is not a dick. I've hired people that were less qualified and want to work with people based on the fact that they're pleasant rather than somebody who might be more qualified or more well-known

and they're not as kind. So I think that I think that's underrated in business and I would like to see more of it. Don't be a dick, it'll catch up to you, right? Shortcuts, play the long card game. And I think both you two are great success stories of playing the long card game and doing it the right way. And while there might be those periods of hell,

it'll pay off. I love that. Don't be a dick. All right. And give us a trading secret. What do you got? Mine is the mistake is the messenger. So the mistake of the messenger means when something comes your way

and this isn't just in business but I do see this in life too. When you're confronting something that looks like that is not what you want to be happening, that is the exact opposite. Oh my God. And then our emotions get all stirred up and we're going to go and fight that

and that makes me mad and now I'm going to complain and now I'm going to focus all my energy on the fact that mistake happened to me. That takes a whole lot of work. Or you can look at the mistake and go, let me pause here for a second. what might I be looking at?

And I'm going to give you an example. The example of Dancing with the Stars. I want this to become full circle here. I got kicked off dancing with the stars. We talked about the negativity of that. I could have embraced that. Oh, my God, I got kicked off. I'm going to go and stomp my feet and go scream.

Or I'm going to start a podcast because you know what? We've been talking about this for a year. And now I'm going to the opportunity to do it. So let's go. And what that did was focus us. It went, bam. We just came off an $8 million a week. million dollar. What? An eight million

person, audience view per week, right? It was like eight million people watched that show. That was news to you. Sorry, that was news to me. I was like, ooh, eight million people. Let's start a podcast. And maybe we'll get a couple. Maybe we'll hook a couple. Let's go fishing. It's true. It really was a moment for me that I had commanded more of an attention from an audience than I had in an awfully long time, probably ever. Thank you to another. And we took the opportunity to go, okay, now's our time.

We've told your story that we're ready to now be broadening what it is that our goals were. Again, purpose, focus. We knew what we were doing. We knew what we wanted to do. We had it all set up. And then I got fired. So we started our podcast. So when things don't go your way, pay attention to maybe there's something else that was supposed to happen that's actually even better.

And by the way, that by the way, you don't have a choice anyway because the thing already, happened. So how we look at it and taking perspective is a really, it's really key because you can't change it. It really is your perspective that's going to give you the opportunity to embrace it or not. And the other thing that I want to add, we've got to shut up. We've been babbling. I know, but I do will say this as a trading statement. I want to hear it. What do we got? We have the opportunity to do whatever we can do with ourselves. So if we want to hone our skills, say I'm an archer, I have my bow, I have my arrow, I have my body, I can be lean, I can make myself ready to shoot. I can hone that. I can polish it and sand it and make it already. When I get ready

to put that bow and arrow up and I see my target, once I let that arrow go, I want it because of everything that I've done to hit that center in that target. But if it doesn't, it means there's something better that it's aimed for. As long as you know that you've done everything completely exactly in tune in the harmony with everything that is the best you can do. Once you know that, you get the grace of God with you because that flight takes flight and you just know you did everything possible that you could have. So there's nothing to be disappointed about. There's only the opportunity to see this surprise on the other side.

I love that philosophical. I like that was very deep. Two great trading secrets. Don't be a dick. When one door closes, another one opens. So many opportunities are to be seen. And I like the Archer comment. Like if it's not there, there's a reason.

and it's there and you have to analyze like kind of everything that happens your life and like what you can do with it to put yourself in a better position. And Heather, thank you guys so much for your time. Anyone that's heard all the stuff going on, the school that you guys, that you have, Heather, and the movie that's coming out. Of course, your podcast, where can people find you guys and everything that you two have going on? Well, if anybody wants to donate to Larchmont Charter, because we do make the curriculum that we make and on donations. It's Larchmontcharter.com. And our podcast is Better Together with Anne and Heather.

We have episodes that come out every Thursday. We drop another one tomorrow. And you can find those wherever you find your podcast. And at the first of every month, you can find the one and only Jason Tardick teaching us all about money matters. And you guys have the Instagram handle for the Better Together, right? Because I follow that. We have better together.

You can go to Ann H.com. Yeah, go follow us on Instagram. and have some fun. We have some fun on TikTok, too. And look out for us coming in some other platforms sometime soon. Yeah, we might be a surprise up our sleeve. Hopefully we'll be able to tell you some good news on our finance day when we see Jason Tyler. I can't wait for that news.

And real quick, in the movie that's coming out, when is it coming out, and where can people find the movie? 13 minutes. And by the way, it's happening in the theaters, and it's so incredible that the theaters are open again. So please go. It's a disaster movie. You want to see all the special effects. And it comes out October 20. night day. Hell, yes, we got it all. And Heather, thank you so much for your time today and going

in depth into your lives and your stories. So many people will hear about what you guys have endured. And I think most importantly, how you've overcome it and stayed true to who you are that will inspire and challenge them to think differently as they continue to move in the direction they're moving in. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you, darling. I can't wait to see you. Likewise. We are closing in the bell with a deep, deep, deep, deep episode with Anne and Heather. We talked all about the acting industry. We talked about Heather's career and changes she made as a working mother.

And then we got into the very specific weeds of Anne's upbringing and some of the struggles she faced, how she overcome them, and just essentially like how it got her to where she is today. seems like every instance in which she hit rock bottom, years later, those things, those principal competencies, like kept coming to fruition. It was deep, but it was also fascinating to learn about the acting and actress industry. Wild. So, David, I can't wait to get your take on this. I know you got a little emotional side in there. Talk to me. What are you thinking? Right now, right here, what do you got for me? I got my notes in front of me. Before I get to them, what is on, are those new headphones? I'm blinded by these things.

It's like you got the, it's like you got a Cadillac escalate on your ears right now. David, I'm not even joking you. Like when I open these headphones, so these are these KLH ultimate ones. And when I open them, they come in this, okay, look at this. You can see this. It's like this luxurious soft carry bag, but wait, wait until you see this. This is a hard-sided black leather traveling case. When I open these things, I'm like, oh my God, David's going to absolutely chirp me and be like, where the hell am I getting a pair of those?

Yes. You got like, like, your kids are kind of shot. Those look like when you get like a Louis Vuitton bag and they come in like the nice little like silk bag and like the box. Like that thing's got the whole setup. And you know what? I'm even rattled because I, my headphones, the cushion has been off for three months and I finally got around a super gluing it. So I was like, Jay, I finally fixed my headphones. and here you are just, like, rolling in my face.

I honestly was, like, terrified to be wearing these because yours, like, aren't even, like, on your head. How are they? They're actually pretty nice. So I feel like they're so comfortable. I could wear these things for, like, hours. So while I'm going to use these for podcasting, I'm 100% going to use them, like, on an airplane, too.

It's got this, like, I don't know, it's like premium leather with, and it's, you know, those memory foam pillows? Yes, those look like pillows. It's honestly, it seems like a, it literally is a memory foam, like, pillow. on my ear. Love that.

Are you jealous? Extremely. I spend six hours on a bus on road trips every weekend for hockey. I need some KLHs in my life. I don't even know what brand those are, but we're going to get you these because too, also like I hit your voice in these headphones,

these KLH ultimate ones. It's like, you're very crisp. I can hear you to like a T. Chris. Okay, we'll get you up here. Okay.

I knew I put these on. I'm like, here we go. He's going to chirpy. I love it. Let's get into this here. And I know you break everything. So these things are going to have a two-year warning.

to you. But anyway, let's get into it. David, what you're thinking now that I've got my Cadillacs on and who knows what you got on there, Bob, what did you think of the episode? I thought it was great, honestly. You know, to be honest, when I was recapping, and I recapt it this morning right before we recorded this, I had no idea who Ann H was. I didn't even know she was an actress, so I was really going to this blind.

And I think that my takeaway at the end of it is like, this is why podcasts are simply the best. Yeah, here's an opportunity that I'm taking an hour out of my life to listen to someone for some reason that I choose to spend my time and I just come away with such like a good feeling, like a gratifying feeling, a really strong positive takeaway on just like, you know, possibilities and opportunities and like it was just a really awesome story. I think it's cool too because like if you ask my mom, she would know everything about Ann, right? Different demographics, different timing. You may never come across her. have her come on and tell this deep story about, I mean, everything, right? Like her homelessness, that she lived out of a car. She's a 12-year-old being the breadwinner for her family. Her father, dying of AIDS and cheating on her mother with men.

And just like everything, it was deep. It was so fascinating to hear where she's been and how she's gotten throughout those tough times. And she said it wasn't until the 59th minute. like she said in the first minute almost like I was raised in a cult and I was like whoa like reading the Bible and then at the end she's like raising a sex cult and I was like geez and one of the fascinating things before you get into some business things that I found is you can really tell that she's an actress because the whole time I was listening to this I'm visualizing like her being homeless in Atlantic City like living in this like tiny place like

three people in a twin bed like I'm actually like feel like I'm watching a movie in my own head just through whose story. So she's a fascinating human being, a phenomenal actress and really, really enjoyed listening to her stories. It's actually a good point. Like you think about when you tell stories, whether it's at work or maybe you're trying to get a new client. Like there is something about what Anne does when she speaks that she takes you to the place, right? Like when she talked about like her house having the rap around it and she couldn't go in and like she, as she was telling it, I'm visualizing and I'm seeing that. And I don't do that with, like, really anyone.

But think about if I could talk to you like that, or I could talk to a client like that, or I could talk to someone else, like put them in the exact scenario I'm trying to paint. I mean, she did that just incredibly, just incredibly. And you know it's authentic when she's getting emotional in her own story that she's probably told a million times in your podcast.

I thought that was really cool. Yeah, I mean, it was obviously those are deep, deep-rooted, like memory. She's reliving at an age that was probably, she doesn't want to go back to, right? So when did you first meet in? I assume it's something around dancing with the stars, like... Yeah, so it was through Dancing with the Stars,

and then I went on her podcast with her and Heather. Caitlin and I did it. It's called Better Together. And so we just kind of really hit it off there. I actually do one segment in month on their podcast, and we do some type of financial segment. So it'll have a theme different every month. But then I actually...

So I got to know her, but remember I was really good friends with Keio, the dancer, Keio. So, you know, yeah, I feel like Keio and I had a falling out, but Keio was dancing with Ann. And I remember I was with Keio that night that Anne got eliminated. And that's why I wanted to revisit it because I remember him saying like, she was just really upset. Like I remember him saying, I was like, oh, did you get to talk to her? Like, I didn't expect she would have been voted off because him and I hung out that night. And he was just like, she just took off.

And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to ask her. Like, was it because you had felt that like you'd open the story back up? and they kind of like took you off there and apparently that was dead on like you heard what she said i mean the ripple effects like 20 years ago she talked about walking the red carpet with ellen and then getting fired the next day 10 million dollar losses and never getting a big uh what she call a big picture a studio picture yeah a studio picture and just i can only imagine you know rehashing those and not seeing our society or or her industry getting better with you know what she's trying to advocate but you know clearly hasn't stopped her which is admirable and i got

question for you obviously you have a gay brother stephen he's one of the funniest generous uh much better looking versions of yourself um and you know how close to home does that hit for you in terms of just you know seeing your brother in an industry in a big city like new york um just having to navigate like you know his life and and things that he's had to go through yeah i think you know you go back to the end thing real quick i think i immediately think trailblazer um and i think the same with my brother and it's just, it's so disturbing to me that she walks on the red carpet with a female and is fired the next day. And at that time, it just goes unnoticed.

That is typical standard protocol. Of course she's fired. That's what the society thinks. You think about how far we've come from that. And that's because of people like, Anne, that's because of people like my brother who are willing to say, like, I'm going to fight for what I believe in and my happiness and equal rights. and I'm going to do it at all costs. I think anything and everything we can do as a society

to protect and encourage and be an ally within that community is just so, so important. But it is so refreshing to see that like we're here in 2020 and there's so much work to be done. But we're here in 2021 listening to this story and we are just like, what? How could that possibly happen? And to me that's such an indicator

that obviously things are moving. in the way they need to, and we just need to continue that momentum. And you see Dancing with the Stars this year. I don't know how much you've watched of it. Yeah. They have the Peloton. I forget his name, the Peloton guy.

He's openly gay on the show, and his partner was just on last week. And JoJo Siwa, they'll let dance with another female. Yep. That's the first same-sex dance partners. Yeah. Phenomenal season, too, I've been watching it. It's really good.

I'll also say this, though. It was interesting to watch with Lowe. I would have, I just my, through my lens I would have never caught this but Lowe was like yeah you know it's great right this is amazing we have two female dancers

dancing together this is what I want to see but he said do you notice that Cody is a gay man dancing with a female so he's like we clearly still have worked to go because I said yeah you know there was something he took away from that

as a gay man saying like okay we can have a female with a female but we still aren't comfortable yet to have a gay man with either a straight or gaming, right? I actually said that to Ashley when we were watching. Did you notice? Because I didn't even pick up on that. And I was like, oh my God, low, that's such a good point.

I didn't realize it until it brought his partner in to, like, be a part of the week and watch the dances. And I'm like, this is, so anyways, business stuff. We've got to get there. We got a couple minutes left. Let's do it. I'm the voice of the viewer. Yes. And I think that you, my thoughts are going to resonate with your thoughts.

And I want to ask you, what were some of the biggest surprises in the business slash financial areas of this episode that you took away from the whole like acting actress Hollywood industry that she talked about because we haven't really had anyone from this industry on yet so I'm just curious like what were some takeaways two or three things that you were like wow that surprised me because I have a couple too a few takeaways I still am always completely perplexed at how actors and actresses get found how their talent is discovered because if you look at the stories there is no consistency. It was interesting to see what she said. That's pretty much what she said.

Like, if you think you have talent, you have to find yourself to be seen. Because all these stories, like, some of the most famous actresses were just walking down the street and someone's like, hey, why don't we pick you up or, you know, and got into this school that she wouldn't have been able to get in otherwise. So that's the biggest thing, discovery, like how they actually get discovered. A couple other big things are the fact that the whole idea of like your next gig is wild, right? Like, you could have like these independent little chop shops where you're making like 10, 20, 50, maybe 60, and that's going well, but you film it long periods of time and just not knowing what's next, like when she said, working actress. We have a buddy who's out in

L.A. had a huge show. Like I say his name, because I don't know if he's talked about it. He hasn't been able to pick anything up since that show and no longer can afford L.A. So the whole crazy lifestyle of the ups and downs and lefts and rights, it almost seems, and what I've seen David too, it's interesting. A lot of bachelor people go on to get these like hosting gigs. I'm not talking about Caitlin. I'm talking about like whether they're in like pop culture or they're in like these different, like sports and stuff. And from what I've learned is that, and I'd like to get some of these people on, they don't, like TV and stuff doesn't really pay well unless you're like really at the top of the game, really at the top of the game. And the last thing is even with that being

the ups and downs. It was interesting to see an actress like Anne, who of course has had huge pinnacles. Still over that 30-year period, she said it herself. Her worst year was 2020 when she made $100,000. So obviously for 30 years,

she's been doing pretty good if that's your lowest year, right? What'd you think about that? She's grinding right now, 100K from Dancing with the Stars, which she basically not only took for the insurance, which I found was fascinating.

The whole insurance aspect. Yeah. which SEGAFTA is something that you're going to have to explain. Is that an acronym? Segafta, do you know? So what it is is it's actually a union for actors. Okay. And so it is, yeah, it's a union that represents actors and actresses to protect their best interests.

Similar to you know how there are unions for individuals that work in warehouses and plants. Like they protect your hours worked, minimum payments, things like that. Sports league, et cetera. They all have them. Exactly. But yeah, no, I think about it all the time. I'm like one name that pops in my head, like, remember Taylor Lautner? Yes.

Guy from Twilight. Like he's known as like not a one hit wonder, but like the biggest hit ever. And like he hasn't been able to get like sustained jobs since. And I've like read out of cars articles on it and stuff. So like when you use the term working actor, it's just, it's just pretty fascinating. What I, you know, she said. And one thing too about agent fees and manager fees. You know, we've talked about Joe Gale's a having 20% and talking about agents,

taking 20% fees in the social media influencer realm. We've now heard her talk about actor and actresses paying their agents 10% fees. We've talked to Biz Nasty about NHL players paying a 2% or 3% salary fee. How do these different industries in agents, different industries, are they able to charge such varying fees? Just something that I'm curious about, like, how is there not like a standard like representation fee and why are certain industries able to, I guess, milk their client from, it's honestly it's I think it's one of the best questions you've ever proposed it to me makes no sense there is no equation for it the only thing that I can bring to it is more of a supply demand thing and educational gap is like as people within those industry become more educated

and there becomes more representation of agents which have more competition the more open communication starts happening and people start saying hey that person got you there that person got you there stuff that we're doing right now in the social media space. Like, I'll talk to a guy that gets off the batch or something that'll ask me. I'll be like, hey, be aware of this, be aware of this, educate yourself with this, because I had it done to me, so make sure it doesn't happen to you. I think that's what happens, but I don't know. Do you have a take on it?

I just was curious if you kind of like dawns on me because every time I hear it, I'm like, that doesn't make sense or like 20, like that shocks me, 10, that shocks me. Being a hockey guy and a sports guy, like I've always functioned under the assumption. It's like a 2, 3% fee. So when I hear like social media influencers having to pay their agent 20% or actresses, Anne Hache, like been around for 20 years, like having to pay the 10%. It's almost like, wait, you haven't earned that like that fee down. So like like a mortgage, like 2%.

But no, it's just really interesting. And then the last thing that I'm going to say, because I know we're running out of time is 30K for a Hollywood star on the walk of fame. That was like that I was like, no way. That was trading Secret Central for me. I was like, are you kidding me, dude? It's just like, you know what it is? You know what that reminds me of?

Because I'm dropping a lot of old episodes in. That reminds me of like Gary V. Like why digital wallets will be successful because people want to show off like what they own. It's like people will pay 30K to have a star to be like, yeah, that's cloud. That's me. I'm on that guy. I'm on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Wild concept.

It reminds me, David, of the lists. Like when people are on like a Forbes top 20 list or, you know, the biggest leader in certain industries. That's, that's exactly, there's a lot of PR money that goes into actually spending those dollars. I also want to wrap too with Heather. I think it's really cool how Heather saw an opportunity with the schools and then was like, let's just start our own. Like, you talk about taking initiative next level. And it's cool to see their partnership and even how she was paid on Dancing with Stars. Her story is great and story is great. So this was a very deep podcast, one that I'll remember for quite some time and some unbelievable takeaway. So if you enjoyed

it, please make sure to give us five stars. Throw your Instagram handle on there. We have a team reaching out to people that give us this review. And if you have any interest in ever joining these live podcasts with us, you can. We have a membership group that's only nine bucks a month, business networking. We have a day trader. We have an HR representative. We have an investment banker. We have a CPA. So you get all the professionals, one stop shop, it's only nine bucks a month. Just email us, restart at chastentartic.com. If you have any interest, and thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets with Anne and Heather, hopefully one you feel as though you could not afford to miss. We'll see you next Monday.

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