Trading Secrets - 251. Rachel Recchia: Bachelor Nation fan favorite breaks down the realities of reality TV between networks, saying yes to Perfect Match, continuing her passion for aviation and the $$$ behind it all!

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

This week, Jason is joined by reality TV star and commercial pilot, Rachel Recchia! Rachel first captured America’s attention on The Bachelor before becoming one of the co-leads of The Bachelorette Season 19, where she navigated love, heartbreak, and the spotlight in front of millions of viewers. She later returned to Bachelor in Paradise, further cementing her place as a fan favorite in Bachelor Nation, but Rachel’s story goes far beyond reality TV. She is a licensed pilot, a career she’s pursued well before the cameras. Rachel pulls back the curtain on her journey through two very different corners of reality TV—The Bachelor franchise and Netflix’s Perfect Match—and explains what ultimately led her to say yes to Perfect Match. She dives into her true passion outside of television: aviation. From working as a flight instructor to breaking down the costly path of pilot training, Rachel shares her long-term goals in the cockpit, the different licenses she’s earned, and how quickly she returned to work after her season of The Bachelorette. She opens up about how the men from her season impacted her mental health, the challenge of balancing a career in aviation with the world of social media, and why she doesn’t see herself as an “influencer.” Rachel also compares reality TV audiences, reveals why she’ll never return to The Bachelor franchise, and gets candid about dating after reality TV. The episode wraps with a rapid-fire money segment that offers an honest look at life beyond the spotlight. Rachel reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss! Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest:Rachel Recchia Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Trading Secrets Steals & Deals! Quince: Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with Quince. Go to Quince.com/tradingsecrets for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five -day returns. Indeed:  There's no need to wait any longer-speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. For a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to get your jobs more visibility head to Indeed.com/SECRETS.

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets today. We are joined by reality TV star and commercial pilot Rachel Reckia. Rachel first captured America's attention on The Bachelor before becoming one of the co-leads of The Bachelorette season 19 where she navigated love, heartbreak, and the spotlight in front of millions of viewers. She later returned to Bachelor in Paradise, further cementing her place as a fan favorite in Bachelor Nation. But Rachel's story goes far beyond reality TV. She's a licensed pilot, a career she's pursued well before the cameras. Today, we are going to talk all about the financial realities of

working in aviation, the money behind reality TV, and what it's like to build a brand with hundreds of thousands of followers, all sparked from dating on TV. Rachel, thank you so much for sharing secrets. I'm excited. I'm nervous. What are you nervous about? I don't know much about. We talked about this. Money. Guys, we talked about a lot about a lot before the camera started rolling.

We always gossip. One of the things Rachel said is that she has something to tell me after, but she refuses to tell me on. So if I'm nervous, it's because I'm like, I wonder what it's about. I like, that's how I like starting my interviews. Yeah. I feel like the first time when you and I connected at Art Basel like a year ago and we were just like shooting the shit, we're like, I think there's a lot. I need to clear up. I know.

I feel like we've been like enemies behind different lines for like so long. Yeah. We kind of, we have a truth now. Well, I was never an enemy of yours for the record. Well. You just have allegiance and you guys have your bachelor's rec community. Everyone's got each other's back. Even if you don't know context, then you and I got to talk a little bit.

We're friends. We're friends. Oh, yes. Alliance. We have Alliance. You're not supposed to say the Secret Alliance. All right. Never mind.

We don't have Alliance. I take it all that. We're friends with no secret. Alliance. Friends, no secret alliance. All right, let's get into what we talk about here. So you're fresh off in this intro. One thing I didn't really get into, perfect match Netflix. You're at ABC. Now you're fresh off perfect match. You're back in the reality TV dating game. I mean, it's like hot and heavy right off the press. How is that feeling just as you think about everything you've been through? It's been crazy. Netflix is definitely a lot more tame. Like it was so surprising. Coming from The Bachelor,

or we know how crazy it is when seasons are airing. And it's so hard on you mentally. And I was very lucky with Netflix. It's been like it almost wasn't on. And the episodes, they drop so quickly all at once. So people go at their own speed. So it doesn't feel like everything's coming in all at once. And it's just you're drowning in it.

So it's honestly been kind of nice. I was recently asked by an executive at a media company, we'll call it that. And they said, what percentage do you think of people that go on reality TV in 2025 are going on just for what the show is and versus career? Like, what percent? And then they said, do you think that there's anybody today that is going into reality TV without a potential career in mind? I said to them point blank, right eye to eye, no one in 2025 is going on reality TV without at least one percent of that. them thinking of like impact of career you had it's too transparent now yeah so for you one was that one of your thought processes of going on and then the second follow-up would be you said it's been

quiet which has been nice on your mental health but is that also a counter to maybe what would have been the goal of being on reality tv in 2025 it's like so crazy because like i agree with you like especially now with love island and i even watched the reunion and the amount of times they said, for the right reasons. I'm like, not one of you on Love Island is here for the right league. Like, be so for real. Right, right. But it's funny because I went on The Bachelor, and I had no expectations.

Like, all I wanted was to not get sent home night one. I just wanted, like, the experience of it. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is such an iconic show. And when it happened, I didn't even think about career because I couldn't think about, like, making it past night one. Like, I didn't even pack for longer than two weeks. You can ask the girls. So for me, I went on for the initial experience of it and then was so shocked when I did actually fall in love because I was like, oh, this is real.

So then going into The Bachelorette, same mindset of like, I know this is possible. I know I can find love. But I mean, obviously since then, I didn't go into Paradise or perfect match being like, I'm going to find my husband. But I was always open to it. Like truly, like I think it's really important for me. Now I would really like to be with someone who kind of knows what I'm going. going through. And when you meet someone and they're going through it at the same time, I feel like you can really like build that foundation. So I'm always delusional and I'm always like, okay, this could

be something. But yeah, the last two times are definitely more of like, okay, like let's see what happens. Yeah. When I went on in 2018, it was just like, I need a break from life. And if ABC's calling me and some kid from Buffalo like in the finance industry, yeah, I'm going to go. Why not? Like it was crazy, right? But I do remember in 2018, there were people from our season. And this was like my first intro, because I really didn't know much about social media at all, that one of the kids was saying, if you wear certain colors on TV during the rose ceremony, that'll, like, help your engagement on social media. And this was 2018. But you went on, like, during the height of it, like the golden era. It was, it was popping. But I remember saying to him, I'm like, what do you, what do you mean engaged? What are you talking about? I didn't know anything about this. And I totally understand what you're saying, like, why not do it then? Give it a shot. It worked Bachelorette. with this time around, so then after Paradise were you thinking, like, okay, this could help things a little bit.

Is that fair? I was done. Like, people don't believe me. I was so done. But when I got the call for perfect match, I was already, like, going back to aviation, like going back to my job. It wasn't like, oh, my gosh, I need to do this. But I was so interested because they were like, this has never been done before. We've never pulled from multiple shows.

And I think for me, the biggest thing with that was I wanted something of my own, because I've, never got to be on my own. Like I, you know, was a co-lead. And then in Paradise, it was about me and all my exes were there. And it was never like me by myself without a reputation. So I was excited to just like have something that was mine. Yeah. I get like to do like your own to be one of the first people. Yeah. And I would be the only one there. Like after Blake, I heard Blake wasn't going. I was like, oh, it really is. It's just me. And this is like going to be so cool. Yeah. And obviously like it didn't work out. But that really was. My mindset was wanting something that was my own. Yeah, for sure. Were there any other shows after Paradise in between

perfect match that did reach out? Yeah. Like I do get reached out to obviously, but I'll always like take the call and see, but I don't know. It's really hard for me because I feel like I have such a different personality than what reality TV is. Like I always think about people like Juliet, like who have that. Like they know how to make TV and I just don't think I have that. I like have more of a Bachelor personality. Like, I'm perfect for Bachelor and that side of a thing. So it would have to be, like, very, like, different and unique for me to want to do it. I don't know. Yeah. I feel like you do make it. I mean, you do make a TV. You cry. I do my own thing. You make a flash. You do your old thing. Is this the end of reality TV for you? Or do you possibly see it in your future? I mean, I never want to say that. I'm because I said the end after Paradise. I mean, who knows really what's going to come up. But I don't see another, like, something like perfect match. or anything like that again. Okay. Okay. So TBD. Maybe you're open to it then. If it like makes sense with

my job, because I really do need to like start focusing on that more. So we'll see. I love it. We're going to get into your job or you go back to the beginning of the timeline. Before we do though, I just want to touch a little bit more on this. It's been a little quiet. It's been different. So you guys had a very successful season. Do you think it's because the pinnacle of Bachelor was so high then? Or do you think this is the result of like being on a reality show? in a streaming service first network? Like, why do you think it is quieter? I think Bachelor fans are just, like, on another level.

And I love them. Like, they're so invested. Like, even to this day, like, even if I wasn't on a show, they want to know what I'm doing and who I'm dating and I want to show them all that. But I feel like Netflix, they're just having on in the background. It's not like they're sitting down having parties. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know. Love Island, obviously, that's the big one right now. But it feels like anything that's not Love Island right now is just on in the background. But Bachelor and Bachelorette will always have that, like, diehard fan base. And they're going to let you know when they're pissed at you. And when they hate you, when they think you're, like, the worst. So I'm just not getting that influx of, like, comments and messages that I did on The Bachelorette.

Because that was, like, crazy. And I'm sure you experienced it on The Bachelor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, I mean, like you said, the Bachelor fan base is so invested. And I think that's why so many people, like, that's why, honestly, a lot of this podcast exists is because people's life and career change so much after the show because of how invested they are into your life. And it's also so interesting to see that, you know,

it's different being on Netflix. Have you seen as far as, you know, again, on this podcast, that's why a lot of these questions are focused on this on the business side. That's really a lot of this entire point of the podcast. But have you seen like business lift? Have you seen things on social media become more advantageous for you from being back on reality TV? Honestly, it feels kind of like the same.

It feels like where I left is still where I am. Like, I am so lucky. I do get so many, like, amazing opportunities to do things from just my time on The Bachelorette. But I don't know if necessarily Netflix is bringing those. I think they would have still come in. But I do feel, like, grateful to now be a part of the Netflix family. And, I mean, there are things now that, like, I'm like, oh, my gosh, the friendships and the things I get to do, just opportunities-wise through that is fun. but like business-wise, I feel like it's all from The Bachelor.

Okay, fascinating. It's so cool to hear both perspectives. Let's go back to day one. So commercial pilot, where are we working? So when I got cast, I actually was working at my college as a flight instructor, and I was graduating at the same time. Okay. So when I got cast, I wasn't even like finished with two of my licenses. And they were like, can you get here in two weeks?

And I was like, I don't know. Like, I don't know about the weather, about. availability like I might not get there and it ended up just working out perfect. Wow. And I got there like in the nick of time. But it kind of sucks because being a teacher is not like the end goal. Everyone knows it's like a stepping stone. So I have to keep going back to this like stepping stone in between going on shows. So that's difficult. And so when you do all these licenses, what's the end result of that then? Everyone wants to do something different with it. A lot of people will normally go the commercial aviation route or like private. It depends on your lifestyle, what

you want from it. I've always wanted to go commercial because I love to travel and I want my family to benefit from me and be able to travel and see what they want to see as well. So that's like my end goal. How long is that process? Like how many licenses you have to go through and how long is it take to become commercial or private? It depends. Some people go through the military or like private flight school, but I did it in like unison with a degree. So I was in college at the same time I was in flight school. So I would go to the airport. And I come back and go to like physics. Like so I did it at the same time. So it took me like the normal college time and then COVID hit. And then I had to take a year off for that. And then I had to come back and

finish up just my licenses. But why didn't you like obviously pilot Pete was such a big like name. Why didn't you get the, why did the pilot Rachel thing stick? I mean, I think it does stick. Yeah. I know. But like people like when Pete literally I think people refer to. That's your that's your Instagram handle. But when like people see pilot Pete, I think that. They just screamed, yo, pilot, Pete, pilot, Pete. People always see you, and it's like, Rachel. They didn't, like, I don't know. I know.

I think it, well, it is probably because he works at the airlines. And I work as a flight instructor, and people don't see that as, like, as serious. But I also just feel like. It is as serious. Well, of course it is. Yeah, in a way. But it also, like, isn't my full personality, not saying that that is peaceful personality. But, I mean, if you're my friend, I feel like I don't even really talk about.

I've never, yeah, I've never heard you really talk about it. So it's like I don't feel like people associate it because I have like these other facets to me, which he also does. So I don't know. It really just is synonymous with his name and not as much me. I love it. Okay, we talk a little money on this podcast. How much on average do you know pilots make? Like what does that look like? I mean, it's pretty good. Is it really? Yeah. I would have no idea. Yeah, my best friend actually. He just got moved up and he's captain at a regional. And he's making more money than like anyone I know. And he's not even in the main lines like 150,000 upward to upward wow yeah and I don't know that for sure but he also like

does extra things like he is also a teacher in that space as well like teaching first officers so I mean there is a lot of money to be made but it's a very expensive career because you're in so much debt for a long time unless you're just going military yeah the school is insane and that's what holds a lot of people back how much is a school cost well for me I went it was with my college tuition and I was out of state. So I think I'm looking almost like upwards of like 200. Damn. I spent. Yeah. So it's just so expensive. Like I think getting my multi engine license alone was like $10,000. Yeah. And that was like a two week course. Okay. And that's just with teacher and fuel and just everything that goes into it. But it's a very, very expensive course. And

there were times where I'm like, I just don't think I'm going to make it. Like I don't have the money for this. But I was always lucky to like be able to get a loan or things. like that but it's it's expensive that is wild so you take a break from that because you immediately go on the bachelor how did the bachelor find you i applied let's go i love it applied i was like going through a really tough breakup and you know like i feel like it's just such a girl thing in college to be like i'm going to apply for the bachelor like yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm applying and i applied and then they contacted me and it like the process happens so fast i was cast within like the month damn i know so i was so lucky it just felt like it was meant to be

You know how they showed, they've been showing everyone's, like, their videos that they submit? Yeah, did you see mine? No, I was just said, did they show yours? Wait, what did you, what did you do? My video, the whole thing was at the airport. Oh, that's good. And they were like, can you please go back and, like, film your day-to-day, which I spent all my time at the airport. And my best friend, Nate, we would sneak in after hours because if I had done any of this

in front of the other boys, like, they already made fun of me and they already didn't like me and didn't respect me. So I'm like, I can't film for a reality show in this airport. So we would sneak back in and that's where I did my video. Unbelievable. All right. So you go on the season. For those that listen to this, not all listeners of the podcast are fans of the Bachelor or from Bachelor Nation.

So to give people perspective, Clayton Eckert is the Bachelor. You go on that season. He falls in love with all of you guys. He has sex with all you guys. You guys find out it becomes an absolute utter shit show. He then ends up with Susie and then you and Gabby are left. And how quickly after they stopped filming did you know that you would become then the Bachelorette? I found out when the world found out.

Oh, wow. That was real. Yeah. And it sucks because I know they wanted it to be a surprise because they assumed me and Gabby would like tell each other. But I was still like fully working my job. Like I had to quit over the phone. I was nowhere near like mentally or bodily ready to be elite. Like I would have been quit.

I would have quit my job and been in the gym. every single day and I was literally I was just off work for the weekend to film AFR and I assumed I'm like if I don't know by now it's not me I assumed it was Gabby and then they had us go sit on stage together and I go do not let me go out there and embarrass me and give it to Gabby in front of me like that is so mean like I know that's what you're about to do and then they sat us down and we got it at the same time and then we started filming like five days after and you had no idea the boys were in quarantine already for our season and we didn't know. That is insane. I didn't even have time to get lip filler. No time for anything. They literally said get right to the mansion and me and Gabby

were just like five days later there. Oh my gosh. That's all right. So in the career side of things at this point you finish filming and then there's like how long is that before you find out four months, right? For the bachelor's. Yeah. So you found out you were the bachelor's in surprise on March on AFR, right? And that's in March. And it wraps and what, November, December? Yeah, it was four months. So we got out right before Thanksgiving. And then I was, like, depressed for, like, a month. And I just, like, was so upset. I couldn't get out of bed. And they were like, can you come start doing interviews for a bachelor? I'm like, no. Like, I wasn't faking that. Like, I don't, I'm not ready. Like, what do you mean? And, like, no, the fact that you feel that way means you should be the bachelor. And I'm like, I don't want to do this. And so we started interviewing, like, right away. And then. March, like was AFR, and then I all went right in. Wow. Yeah, it was crazy. When you said that, it took you a month to, like, you were kind of in the weeds with it and, like, struggling. I remember when I got off, it took me, like, a week or so. I didn't go nearly as far as you. I got dumped at the fantasy suite to dinner table, but I remember it was about a week or so, and I snapped out of it

pretty quick. But then when I watched it back, that I remember I got, like, really sad. For that month, Like, do you, looking back on it, do you think you were in love with Clayland? I mean, yeah, I think I was. But what I think made it the hardest was like when we left, we were under the impression like he was single and that, like, we didn't know he got back together with Susie until AFR. Like, that's when we found out. You guys, no one talked or anything.

No one told us. That's rare. I think they also wanted to keep us. Everyone's like. Yeah, I think they wanted me and Gabby. I think Gabby got over it immediately. I can't speak for her. But I think they wanted us in the mindset of like they didn't.

want us to focus on that. They wanted us on Bachelorette. So no one told me. Interesting. And so it was like this, why, if you're single, are we not? It was just kind of like me kind of holding out a little. Of course. Well, the door still, yeah, maybe we'll get back together when you see it back. Yeah. So it was hard because I just felt like there was still this like chance because I didn't know about Susie at the time. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? It is crazy. This year, I am taking a whole new fresh look with quality pieces and trying to stay on budget. That's why I can rely on Quince. So I think everyone needs Quince's Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Those are incredible from just 50 bucks. And there's no better workout motivation than some new active gear, which you can

get on Quince as well. So Quince only works with factories that use safe and ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. They're able to reduce costs by partnering directly with those top factories, cutting out the cost of the middleman and then passing that savings on to you. So upgrade your closet this year. Without the upgraded price tag, just go to quince.com slash trading secrets for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash trading secrets. And that will get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash trading secrets. When you go back to work, how quickly? So you get off filming, when do you start working again? I did it so soon after.

want to say like maybe two or three weeks after and you're a flight instructor i was instructing and i remember the producers they were like don't go back to work like take some time off i think kind of telling me like you're and i was like no i need this or i'm going to go insane yeah i have to fly i have to throw myself back into life so it was very very quickly what is can you say like what flight instructors make like minimum wage like sometimes like 15 11 dollars depending on the state it's very very very low because people know it's like like It's a very quick turnover. People just are there for six months.

Yeah. And then they go to the airlines. So they're not paying you that. I know. Like the people that our pilots are learning from, they're being instructed by, are getting paid very close to minimum wage. Yeah. That seems like asinine to me.

I know. It's really tough. And you're basically just doing it knowing that one day you'll make money. Yeah. That's why you're doing it. So the idea is you're putting this time in so then eventually you're going to become a licensed pilot. So by the time you're instructing, you're done. Like you're just getting hours to be hired by an airline.

Got it. Okay. And how many hours you need? So if you have a restricted ATP, which means that like... What's ATP mean? So it's like basically this license that says that you like can go to the airlines quicker. That's in short story what it means. So I only need a thousand hours.

But if you don't have that, you need 1,500. Interesting. So typically once I'm up there, like once I start getting up to a thousand, I can start applying with the airlines basically is what it means. Okay. Amazing. Well, I can't wait for you to do that and hear about that career. I'm going back into your Batcharad announcement. Before I do, my curiosities are killing me. I got to ask. And you're instructing because all I'm thinking about is like your training. So there's obviously simulations and you're going through it all. Was there ever like a very scary experience in

training your, you're to become a pilot, like a potential like crash or did you crash in a simulation? Yeah. So I have, all my scary experiences are like by myself, which is funny. One was when I first got my license, I was a fresh pilot, and you're not allowed to fly in the clouds when you're like only have your license, because it's like visual. Like, you can't, getting in the clouds is a different license. And so... Wait, what? Yeah, so you get your private pilot, and then your instrument rating means you can go in the clouds

because you're just focusing on the instruments. You can't see anything. Okay. And that one's a really tough course. So you have to stay below the clouds then? Yeah, or just like on a clear day. Okay, got it. And one day I was flying, and it was a clear day.

And I saw something on the radar. I'm like, this looks weird. Like, and my instructor was like, no, it's fun. and I was flying back alone on a cross-country and the clouds just start getting lower and lower and lower and then I'm in the cloud and I can't go any lower because there's a certain altitude. You have to fly above mountains. I've learned in him basically Appalachian Mountains. So I was like, oh my gosh, this is the lowest I can go. And air traffic was like, are you in some weather? It starts hailing. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm like, I'm going to die. Like, I'm the newest pilot. And they're just like walking me through it,

telling me what headings to stay on. So then finally, like, I did get out of it and land. But that was really scary. And then one time I had an RPM gauge failure, which I thought was an engine, because that's showing your engine. And I thought it was my engine. And so I thought I had an engine failure. And then I, like, landed in the middle of like Indiana or something. And I brought it to maintenance. And they were like, I'm like, it's RPM, right? Like, I don't feel any roughness. And they were like, well, we can't tell you that. Like, we don't know. And I was just like okay well I'm gonna go because I think it's the gauge and it ended up being the gauge but yeah that was really scary because I flew home with like my gauge just in the red

probably illegal but I just had confidence that's what failed so that is crazy those are my two stories I mean when you're in the clouds and it's hailing I'm assuming as a passenger you're you do it you do nothing right you just let the plane go well yeah and then you kind of like turn on some of the instruments can get clogged with like when it gets too cold so I knew I was like okay just turn on all the heating I'm in the smallest plane there's it's not very advanced, just turned on all the heating I could, and then I just sat there and just tried to keep it level. And just, they told me, they're like, go this direction, we're watching out for you.

Like, you're not going to hit anyone. I was like, there's nothing I can do. I can't go any lower. And our airport was like the next one, the land at, basically. Unbelievable. A warrior in the sky on our TV. I mean, to keep your composure in those moments, like clearly you got some practice for the television. So then, let's fast forward.

You're in Bachelorette. They announce right then and there, your work doesn't even know. So you have to accept that you obviously accept it and then you immediately tell your work and what did they fire you? Well, I called and the boys there. I always say boys because it usually is. They all knew I was on The Bachelor and they would talk about it and like, you know. And so my boss knew and I called him and I go, I don't know if you heard and he goes, I did because everyone was talking about it. And I go, I don't think I'm coming in anymore. And he goes, I know. Just go, okay, thank you so much. Like thank you for that. opportunity. I'd only even working there the three months in between the season. And that was it, never heard from him again. That is wild. And you haven't gone back to that job since. No, that job is in Tampa. And I moved right after the bachelor's season, I moved to California. And since then, you've been pursuing this. You haven't worked in the aviation space.

As an instructor since, Bachelorette, no. Okay. Gotcha. And are you going to go back? I am. I need to figure out it's hard because I really enjoy my life here and all my opportunities are here. I don't feel it's the best place to teach because the airspace is very crazy in L.A. I don't know if I need to go somewhere more like north to teach or I have to see what that looks like. But since I've just been like getting my hours on my own just like flying around and stuff like that. But yeah, teaching, it's going to take a lot of thought with that next process. Okay, cool. Going back to chronological order, you become the bachelorette. It's you and Gabby. Did you, when me, Blake, and Colton were up for the Bachelorette and like went through the process,

signed everything and stuff, we talked very openly about everything. Like, what was your contract, clearly? What did you negotiate? Did you guys talk about that stuff? Like, do you have any idea where you guys paid the same or the contract's the same? Do you have anything about that? Or did you even talk about it? I, well, so at the time, it's so difficult because I knew that it was me, Susie, and Gabby all interviewing.

Or like what I was told or what I heard through the grapevine? because I don't know if it's true. I've never asked Susie. Oh, because that makes, that actually alludes to why you thought that he was single. Yeah. Oh, interesting. So I thought everyone was getting asked. Yeah.

And in my, like, truly in my mind, I was like, if Gabby is up for this, it's going to Gabby. Like, I do not think there is a chance I'm getting this. So when they sent me the contract, they told me they were like, well, this is the rate. We've only negotiated with one person, which was Emily Maynard, and she got the highest. and we haven't negotiated since, like, this is the contract. So they told you you can't, there's no budget on the numbers. They basically said there was no budging, and I didn't think I was going to get it. So if I thought I had some power, like, if I thought they really wanted me, and I was like,

okay, would you do this, or could I add on this? I don't know. I just didn't think they wanted me that bad. So I just signed it to sign it, just because why would I not take the opportunity? I just didn't think it was mine to argue with. If you don't take it, someone else will. Like, all three of these girls want it. I didn't think I had that power.

Gotcha. that makes sense? It does make sense. I think it makes a lot of sense. Did you, you can't share how much it was, can you? Can we? Yeah. I think it was like 110, 120. I think that makes sense. Yeah. I think it's 120 actually. I can't remember. Okay. So same across the board. You find out you thought it was going to be her. So then when you both get it, one of my questions was going to be, like, was that a challenging thing for you to share that? Well, looking back, I like, I'm so grateful she was there. Being a lead is so isolating and lonely. And, I'm I've just like we had the best time together but it was challenging in the way that production was like

I feel like and they do to the day say that they didn't control a lot that went on but it was just like the boys had all the power and it was the most like the biggest ego hit I've ever had my confidence it took so long it probably still hasn't recovered from like dealing with the way they treated us yeah and like having the boys just and it happened to Gabby too just like I don't like you because of this this and this reason so I'm gonna date your friend and And they just got to stay. And I just don't think I've ever really come back from like just having people be like, I'd rather leave this show than date you. Yeah. And I'm like, weren't you like, because normally if your cast as the lead, they know who they're getting, but they didn't know. And they had a choice.

So the men just treated us horribly. And that was the only thing that, looking back, I'm like, I wish I never put myself through that because it was so hard. I never thought about it like that. That is bullshit, actually. Yeah. Because typically, like in our experience, you know, there's one bachelorette. Well, you did you do it too?

No. No, you didn't? I mean, I was with Becca and that I, you weren't on, you weren't on Caitlin's season. No, I was on Becca's. I always forget. I always think you were on Caitlin's. Okay, because Caitlin's season, there was two. There was two.

So they've done it before. They've done it before, yeah. With Becca, there was, it was obviously just her. So the, when there's only one bachelorette, it's the ultimate, it's kind of like the ultimate chase, the ultimate pedestal. And amongst the guys, there's like, there's one person. So, like, when you throw in, I've never thought about that, when you throw on, when you throw on the alternative. Then there becomes like the conversation of like, okay, who are you more

into? Why are you more into them? Are you connecting with them mentally? Is it physically? What do you know? Like then and then you have to hear. And we're so different. Then you got to hear the differences. So like I never really thought about that, but that makes a lot of sense. I hope they don't ever do a season with two people again just for that reason. I don't think they will. And again, I don't regret it because like I don't know what I would have done without her. Truly. But like, oh my gosh, like watching there was the Rose Ceremony where like three guys told me no. Yeah. And I, I remember. remember every time after that I would sit in an interview and I'd be like, are you trying to get me to quit? Like, yeah. Because they would throw obstacle after obstacle at me, like,

people would break up with me midseason and go date Gabby. And I'm like, okay, you're trying to get me to quit. Like, you want the one and you want the TV of me leaving and me saying I'm not good enough. Like, okay, just tell me and I'll do it. Because I don't think you want me here. And I just struggle with that all season of like, do they actually want me here? Or do they want that TV moment of one quitting? And they were like making it me. So it was, hard because the whole time I never felt like the lead. I just felt like they wanted me to leave. I know. No, it's totally fine. It's nice talking about it because I think people don't understand how much we actually went through on that season with the men. That is a lot. Are you, forgive me,

I'm just not caught up with the drama and I don't really recall on the history of the drama. Are you and Gabby friends friendly? Yeah, no, I, I'm her biggest supporter. Like, truly, I'm so happy for her. She was born to be a star. Like, I was there front row. Dancing with the Stars, like everything she does, I'm so, so happy for her. And like, I genuinely, I'm like, I love her so much. And we don't talk, obviously, as much, but I'm like, I'm so genuinely happy for her. And like, I want her to just have everything in the world. Yeah, you guys have both done such a great job after it all.

Do you keep in touch with Susie at all? I actually do see Susie a little bit more often than I do see Gabby. Just like, I feel like we all run around kind of in the same group. We do see each other. But yeah, it was definitely a little rough. for a little bit just because, like, it felt like when me and Gabby were the lead, it was like me and Gabby versus Clayton and Susie for a little. And so it was hard, but I feel like we're kind of, we're in a good place now.

You're in a good place. I love that. All three of you are killing it. You guys are all great from everything I know. When you think about after the Bachelorette and then, because you went boom to boom, then you quit your job. Now you're done with Bachelorette. You end up with this guy, Tino. You and Tino don't end up together. So you're going through this roller coaster of just mayhem. And now you don't have a job. You're unemployed at this point. So talk to me a little bit about like what was the career navigation from that point? When did you start to see like money come in and like what was the most surprising to about this new era of your career? Obviously the Bachelorette check was like very nice. That was life changing. Especially at that age. And being like I was

at a minimum wage job. Yeah. That's huge. And it really all just like saved it for like my loans and like things like that. But then I got so many incredible opportunities after The Bachelor. Like I was actually so surprised because then I finally got to do brand deals and I was like, you're making this much money for a story. Like this is crazy. Like it was so life changing and I got to be like so picky with what I wanted and only doing things I really liked. So I was so lucky coming off Bachelorette and then immediately into Paradise. So it was kind of like the last three years I've been go, go, go with the shows. I haven't had a second to really be like, right, what? Because it's been one after another. Yeah, interesting. When you think about that from a pilot

perspective, you said some of these guys and girls are making $200,000. I'm going to guess that you and your career now are making more than you would as a pilot. Maybe like, maybe like kind of equivalent, but that pilot job, like the amount that my friend will work a couple days a week, like maybe and out of the month, like not even that much. And he's making so. so much. So it's so possible for me to do both, because this isn't forever, like this side. Of course. And I'm so aware of that. So I've just been like taking the shows as they come and like the opportunities as they come, but like knowing ultimately, I feel like that's so stable and such a good career for me to have. So you think if you stay, let's hit two road paths.

Roadpath is you'd never do reality TV and you take aviation industry as a career or you do the reality TV and you are where you are now. Erasing everything. You think, financially, you would have been more successful doing aviation only? I mean, it's still there. Like, it's not that I haven't chosen. No, it's not going anywhere. You can go back in a second. A lot of people, the reason I ask this question, it's such a unique answer. A lot of, like, let's say, like Kelly Flanagan, who was an attorney or some other people, I'll always be curious. Like, if you stay as an attorney today, do you think you'd be making more or less? Typically, I'm hearing people say they're making more than they would in the career track. But again, they don't have

career tracks, like aviation captains where there's a ton. Crazy. Like, especially if you move up, like, if you're a captain at a major, like, Delta's United, it's like, I don't know. I think that's why, like, I can't speak for Peter, but like, there's a reason he's doing that. Like, yeah, this is like, that's a, well, that's a good point. It's a great job.

I don't think Peter ever, I could be wrong. I don't know if he's ever not worked. Like, even when he's been standby or like a sub, like he's done like his five months where like he's like taking his time off, but he's still like in their system and getting I think some form of benefits from or working from it. So you're right. I just think it's an interesting, it's an interesting career track. Unless you're like super crazy, like, but I don't consider myself like an influencer,

anything like that. I've just done these shows. So I don't know the possibility of like, okay, if I pursue this full time because I've never thought about it because I think I would just get so bored. Why do I love this conversation. I have so many people. Why don't you consider yourself an influencer? Because I'm, I mean, I consider influencer.

There's the Alex Earls and the people who, like, build from the ground up, like, this is my niche. Like, I'm telling you to buy these things or whatever she's doing. But us, it's like they're just invested in us, I feel like as people. Like, people aren't really caring what I'm like. Like, yeah, they love to know where my outfits from or things like that. But I don't feel like I'm influencing people. Like, I mean, I have influenced people like to go, like, pursue aviation or to like do certain things like that. But I don't see myself as like that.

I just see I done reality TV. and they're just like, want to see what I'm up to. I would say specifically from the Bachelor franchise, very specifically, the biggest thing a lot of us struggle with, and I can say us because I've had these conversations with individuals, and a lot of them is identity. I think we get off the show and we're like, what are we? And we don't know. And like, we go to a bar and someone's like, hey, so what do you do?

And you're like, oh, God, how much time do you have? I literally lie. Right? Yeah, you're in an elevator. And guys, so what are you doing here? What do you do for work? And you're like, oh, shit, how much time you got? Yeah.

Has that ever impacted you? And if so, what do you, if you had to define, like, what your career identity is now, we know where you could go instantly and where you will go. And that's so badass. But, like, today, what is it? Like, how do you feel about that? I always just say, I'm a pilot. Like, I never. You still lie.

I do. I lie. I put it on, like, anything I'm doing. I don't know. It just seems like, what do I say? I've done reality TV. Like, it feels. like superficial saying it it feels like because I really have been doing that for the past three years

like genuinely but I just say I'm a pilot unless I'm like I think the only time I said I wasn't was when I was like applying for an apartment and I was like oh I do like reality TV and I told them that because I was like because right now I think our money is a little bit because they want to see like I feel like they want to know where your checks are coming from and I'm like oh like you know from the show or from this brand deal and so it was hard to like I was like oh I do reality TV like that's why it's all's kind of sporadic. But other than that, I just say, I'm a pilot. It's so interesting. Now, there's a lot, like, I don't know what it is with Bachelor Nation that, like, we feel that way, but, like, we're just normal people. Yeah, but, like, so, but other reality shows aren't

like that. Like, I'll give you an example. There's, I know there's a show on Bravo in which they've considered casting people from the Bachelor. And they have, yeah, and they have a lot of desire to do so. But then at the end of the day, what they say is, like, we can't, through the Bachelor. Everyone is too media trained, too politically correct. So worried about what everyone's thinking about them. No, it's so true. Too polished almost. Even watching perfect match, you can tell me and Clayton or Bachelor. Interesting. Just like everyone can tell. And people are going to hear that. And I know I'm going to get comments of the response of, oh, you go so you're too polished. Like I could give you all these incidents of this, this and this. You're right. No one's perfect. But I'm saying

in comparison, it's a different like other producers have a hard time working with us because of like how like, I guess the gauntlet maybe we've gone through or whatever it might be. And again, I can't speak for everyone. I'm just speaking for, like, the little things I've heard. And then I connected to, like, Love Island. And these people come off the show from Love Island. They are pros. They are, like, they know more about this industry than I have a clue about seven years in

and I own a tailman. I mean, they're streaming 24-7. Like, they're hustling. You know, they're doing, like, 300 TikToks in a day. They're thinking about the product they're going to, create and how they're going to become bigger influencers and creators like they don't only own it they they like crush it and it's so weird how in the in the whole like influencer or content game we're so and i just talked to grocery store joe about this at us open we're oh and serena we're so like

we tiptoe around we don't know should we not and it's like we don't know our name to it what's our identity but it's like why like this is our path right now like when you say that because like i don't i'm just coming off this experience where i every guy was with on perfect match love island and i'm bachelor and the way we would talk about things like going into a boardroom or going into a challenge and the way they think and they think 10 steps ahead and they think okay well if we don't win this challenge and this this and i'm like i've never thought about that because i think we're in the bachelor like we're normal people who are there for the right reasons and were picked up off the street and you go and do the show and then you go back to your life and everyone gets so mad

like even when Michelle, like, quit the classroom, people are so angry when you don't go back to your normal life. And I've just been. And then it's followed by hate, like, a lot of hate. They hate it. When you like go in and say, I'm a teacher, I'm a pilot, charity, she was in like the therapy space or when you don't go immediately back to that. Jen Tran, I think it was, she went back.

She went back. But when she didn't, and she felt like she had to defend it so much, which is bullshit. Yeah. It's not the same where Love Island, I think they're, they know. those people are going on to be influencers like i watched this season i didn't think hooda's going back to her nine to five like i'm like she's going to be an influencer and so they have this audience that like is already there in support of that and i feel like our core audience wants us to go back to our normal life and never see us again like i genuinely feel like

that's the way our audience is and i could be wrong no i believe that one of the reasons i did this podcast is because of that like like why are we fighting such an uphill battle to just be the reality of like what is. It just for us, it happened earlier. By 2030, they say that the creator economy is a $500 billion economy. It's growing 22 plus percent every single year. So if this is a space that we fell into because of reality TV, and you could also do a lot of good with it and make impact and educate and empower people through heartbreak of like things you learned and talk about being two of a position that was just for one mentally impacted you and not being chosen. and who that even makes you today.

Why is that a bad thing? Why is that so frowned upon? Why is it so like, I can't believe you're doing that? You're doing the best for you and yourself and for some people, their wives, husbands, and families. And I just don't understand why this is a massive, not a negative connotation to it. Yeah.

That's what I asked. It really just is the Bachelor is the one show that it's like you have to be here for the right reasons. There is no talking about, like following, talking about this. Like anytime we've seen it on the show, like Bachelor in Paradise, how many years ago they were talking about their followers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Though, like, they got crushed. Oh, they get completely crushed. And it just is like, our show is the one show where it's like, you have to be a normal everyday person who's

coming on for love. And then once that time is over, then bye-bye. Yeah. I don't want to see you again. It feels like that's the way they look at us. And I think the reality is what you're seeing now and what's even coming out in the Bachelor franchise and actually has been for years is that two things can be true, right? You can actually go and say, hey, it's worked before me before. I hope I find love and hey like if this could like work out and also positively impact our business and we could do cool things with it great like two things can be true I think the real root of the issue is like when the attention is just purely one direction and then it gets blended and then you have the negative perception from years and years ago within this franchise and now all these bachelor people

we tiptoe around saying we don't know what to say we are we can't be influencers that's icky we can't do this we can't do that because the judgment and then what happens a lot of us just get lost in it and it's so easy too as well i know and now the show's i mean it'll be interesting do you think i'll get into paradise in a second but like what do you think about the state of the union and someone who's been on paradise you've been the bachelorette you've been on the bachelor you've seen all three like what's your stay of the union what do you think's happening with the franchise what direction you think it will go it's so hard because i love the bachelor and i love the family but now it's like the production's all different.

I don't know anyone on the team anymore. It just feels like they consistently have made poor decisions. Just even like looking at me and Gabby season, like you could have done so much with it with like having the two women and it chose to like go down the avenue of like people wanting to see pain and hurt on the screen. And I think the audience doesn't want that.

They want like the lightheartedness, the silliness, which we're seeing in Love Island. They want a say in what production does. they want to know what's happening. And I think Bachelor, it's just like, if you're going down the path of, like, hurt and humiliation, like people don't want to watch it anymore. So I don't blame them for, like, straying away.

I don't feel like they listen to the audience as much as Love Island does. Yeah. We're all driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search just match with Indeed. If you need to hire, you need Indeed.

Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly, visitors. Ditch the busy work. Use Indeed for scheduling, screening, and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. And Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. Ninety-three percent of employers agree. Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites. One thing I love about Indeed is that it's hiring in one place. It's simple. It's easy to use. And if you're looking for a job, it's so easy to search. Leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day. Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences

to be the best for you. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash hire. Just go to Indeed.com slash hire right now and support our show by saying we sent you there. Indeed.com slash hire. Terms and conditions apply. You need to hire. You need indeed. Okay. One question I asked you before was about your career path and earnings. This is about life in. You think about the next steps. Do you think if you didn't go on reality TV at this point, you would have found your person? Oh, I'd be married with kids. You think that was certain? That 100%. Wow. Why? Because it's something that I truly want. I think if I would have to just stayed on the path of like I went to the airlines and I stayed in that,

I would have it. The more you do this sort of a thing like TV, it feels like the smaller your dating pool gets. Like I've tried to date people outside of this space and like they sometimes people are too private. They don't want it. They can't understand and it can be a lot. So it's like I feel like you're kind of in this position where like now who can I date that will like kind of get what I've been through and kind of get me. It's been really hard honestly. I mean, I don't know what you, how you think. It's, you know, I had, I was on the Bachelorette, right? Then I got engaged to a former Bachelorette and then dated someone who is a well-known TikToker. So I've dated twice, seriously, of people that are public figures.

And I don't have a desire to date someone that's a public figure again. And I will say if you're going to then have a desire to date someone privately, who's not in this space or industry, the level of balance, support, care, understanding, empathy, team, all of that has to, security, has to be at such a high because the things they have to witness across their feed, therefore you page, the history of you, you know, whatever, it's celebrating, their big wins or getting engaged or whatever it might be the tears all that it's all documented and it's all out there i know that's what i say now i'm like i how am i supposed to date a guy

who's going to go home tonight and literally just google rachel rick and see a million videos of me crashing out on levels i've never done before like how are they supposed to see that and be like oh this is like a stable person this is like a person i want to date like it just feels like they can look up so much about us and like it's it's definitely hindering I feel like my ability to date. I don't want to tell them about this. And then I actually, I dated this guy in L.A. And I tried for so long.

I was like, I'm not going to bring it up. I'm not going to talk about it. I think I got like maybe a month in before I finally had to. And it was just like, it's so hard to like hide that part of you. Because like a lot of my friends come from the show. We're like, why are you living in L.A.? And it's like you don't want to talk about that part. But it's such a big part of life.

And then some people just don't want it. And I have to be okay with that. Yeah, it's crazy. No, it is. Because, and even just talking about the, like, if you date someone that's out of the spotlight, the history of you seeing them, you crashing out, which, by the way, like, everyone crashed out. Not as bad as me. The person, yeah, but the, yeah, I mean, everyone's, okay, you got your, you got some bad ones on there. I'll give you that. But then they also have to deal with the, the future of what that is. And it's people always thinking and speculating, you're dating someone else or doing something. So, again, it's possible. I think it's, it's possible. I think it's. just takes a very, very special person. And then the other, like, thing that I don't think a lot of people in this space talk about, but our conversation is going that way is when you're in this space, you then, especially when you're traveling to the big cities and you're doing things at night, it's usually connected to, like, I don't know, like either in a event or someone that

was on in your pockets or something. It's like, hey, we're going over here. We're getting dinner here so that it's like you go to these places that the same people in the same circles are running. I know. You're right. Yes. You know what I'm saying? You're right to yourself. Yes. I know what you're talking about. I mean, I feel like I deal with something similar like me and Blake can't do anything. And then for the rest of like the month, it's Rachel and Blake are dating. Yeah. Rachel like I mean, you go through similar things too. But it is hard because then put a partner in that, put someone who doesn't understand it in. And they're like, why is it? Why, yeah, like, what are you doing?

Why are you out with this person? Why are you photographed with this person? And then they just, like, don't understand it. It feels like I'm constantly on the defense, and I don't want to feel like that. Yes. Whereas if someone knows what it's like, they're like, they don't care. But that's why I would say, like, when you said, like, what would it take? I think you just, if it's someone who is so, like, just healthy and supportive and secure,

which is everything that, like, you should want your partner and vice versa, I think it could work. We'll see. You and I will come back to the table and talk about how it's going. Yeah, like, I want someone, but like, it's just, it's hard. Yeah, I get it. I get it. All right, we can have a conversation about this for a long time. Let's quickly fast forward to Paradise.

So you're the Bachelor at, it's around 110, 120K. You go back into this world full speed. You're getting some brand opportunities. You won't call yourself an influencer, but you're playing it. You're doing brand deals. I'm just playing with it. But then you go into Paradise. You're the second lead ever to go into Paradise at this time.

The first one being Becca. who was my Bachelorette. Were you from like, were you hesitant to do that? Did it take them a lot? Did you say like, I need to pay double. I need to pay the same. How'd you approach that negotiation business-wise too? I don't know.

It just kind of like started happening. They were really interested. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't want to do it. But then I like watched Becca, obviously. And I was like, oh my gosh, like maybe it was like meant to be. And my person's in paradise. And it just feels like because my time on The Bachelorette was so. hard and like I didn't even end with anyone it felt like I didn't I was never the

lead yeah so I didn't go down feeling like oh I'm so important I'm the lead I felt like a normal person because I never experienced feeling like lead even when I was so I was just excited like to do something different do something on my own like this is me going down and being able to be by myself again it sounds so stupid but once you're like sure you just want your own thing and I was like you know why not and so I just took the chance obviously looking back like I kind of wish I didn't just because I'm like there was no point all my exes were there I should have put that together but it was fun like I had a good time but yeah it was just probably not the best decision I've ever made did it take like with perfect

match I heard on file files you were like they called and I was like cool was it easy for them to get you in paradise no I I really really fought them on it and I said no and it's just like they're so convincing and then I talked to Becca and I talked to I don't know if you remember Megan Croft like Lady Kay were super close and I talked to her for hours about it and and leaving for paradise there was never a point where I was like excited or I'm like oh I can't wait for this it was like it felt dread the whole time going but I was just like I don't know maybe this is like where I'm going to find someone maybe this is good for me to be by myself and I don't really remember like the reason why I said yes but yeah I ended up just going back

How much did you get paid to go in Paradise? I think I got base rate. I think I got 20. Yeah, I think that's what everyone who doesn't go by like the day. I don't know what they do now, but a lot of my friends would either get like base rate or day. And I'm pretty sure me and Avin got the same amount. Did you consider going on Paradise this season? No.

No, I'll never go back again. Why? Because it just, I need that is the end of it for me. Like The Bachelor world has, you've closed that chapter. Truly. I don't think I could ever go back to The Bachelor and really. get to be myself like I was on perfect match. I fully got to be myself. I feel like I'm always going to be in this box of like I was a lead and I didn't find someone and like you can't go back

without everyone knowing you and knowing what they think of you from watching you on TV. Where perfect match, no one saw me. So it was like I really felt free and I don't think I want to go back to feeling like that again. Interesting. One thing I was in preparing for this, I was thinking about is these decisions do have a lot of impact on like what's next for you, especially with just like all things career and life, which is what we talked about on this podcast. And I saw notes somewhere that your family was telling you do not go on perfect match. Yeah. So people were advising against it. Oh, my dad didn't even watch. And still hasn't watched. My mom said she would put it on and he would leave the room. Okay. So I was approached to go on perfect match.

I know. I heard. Okay. And so like I was like, do I say this? Whatever. Screw it. And then I said no. for several reasons. One of the reasons being maybe similarly to you, like, you know, again, there are several reasons. But one, the people like around me were just like, no, don't do that one. Like, don't do Perfect Match. Now that you've done it.

Yeah. And you know that your family said that and your dad's always watched. Do you have any regrets with that kind of business decision? No, I think Perf Match, I'm like so happy I did. Like genuinely, like, I was happy to go on. I had a great time there, production. Like, they were so great. I think my dad is just he, he wants me to be a pilot.

And, like, I will call and be like, I'm going on Paradise, and he's like, when are you going back to flying? Like, he doesn't care about any of this. Like, this is to him not a thing. He's happy for me to get the opportunity. He's, like, glad I'm on my own and things like that. But he will never, like, after bachelor, he's like, go back to your job. There's no other thing.

So I think he's just upset. with me that I've been doing other things. You're still ripping into it. Okay, I like it. I know for sure on the Netflix contract you cannot disclose anything about the payments and you're in the weeds with it. So we're not going to get you in trouble there. Netflix NDAs are crazy.

But hang on, let me know. Let me know if you could do this. Can you say more or less than Paradise? Or let's do this to make sure you're certainly not getting in trouble. Hot, warm, cold. Hot being, it was better than Paradise, warm, it's wrong. Same cold. Okay, better than Paradise.

But everyone does get the same. from what I know. Oh, interesting. Could be wrong, but I heard everyone got the same thing. Okay. Biggest misconceptions and just like behind the scenes on those other shows. So you met so many people from other shows. What did you learn about those shows and what do you think are some things that you've learned from speaking to them about their experience?

I think it's jarring going from Bachelor where like we've talked about this. You're there for the right reasons. You do not discuss anything. Like you are there because you want to find love. and perfect match it's so open gameplay like open like how are we going to win this how are we going to get into next week how are we going to win and like i was just like i don't know how to act in this environment because i'm like i don't think like that and for me like i feel like there was this like wanting of like the screen time and wanting to stay in and i'm just like i don't care

like i've done bachelor like if i am in because i like what connection i'm in i'm in but i don't need to be here like so it just felt like a lot of people were like it's very open gameplay so like it felt like more like premeditated calculated it felt like they were doing a job like they're at their work and i felt like i'm here for like to see what's going on do you think at my opinion do you think that worked out for those people yeah i think some of them look amazing and i think they're great TV. And I think it's not The Bachelor. So we need the people who are just un-serious and crazy. And you need all different kinds to make a show. But, I mean, sometimes there would be people where they would literally be like, come on, guys, we're making

TV. Come on, guys, do this. We're making TV. And I'm like, I'm not making TV. I'll go home tomorrow. Like, I don't care like that. Which is like, you're like, oh, that's wild. But like, it isn't because that's their job. That's the job. But I think it's wild from the Like if someone said that in the bat, like if someone in Paradise said we're making TV, they would take that clip, he would become the biggest, he or she would be the biggest enemy. It would be like a whole thing. We're like, yeah, we're like, we're like, we're scared and we're like tiptoe and everywhere. Literally.

And so it was like, oh my gosh, people would say that. And I'm like, they have a point, but like I don't know how to make TV. I do not know. So it's like they were doing their job and I was there. And I'm like, I actually, I really like you. and I feel like we have a connection and they're like, yeah, I like you, but like I won't see you after this because this is my job. So it felt like it's definitely interesting. It's another thing about Bachelor World, and I'll never forget when I talk to Nick about this, this like really

landed with me. Nick was, Nick told me when it comes to like Reddit and comments and all those, he'll never read any of that stuff about him because he never wants any of that to ever change his direction. Like he'll then adjust because of like the hate. the comments. And I thought that was brilliant because I do think a lot of our peers live in those comments. Read them. They do. Participate them in them in different ways. And I think that ends up them shaping them to like become a version of themselves that's not themselves online. Do you feel the same way? Absolutely. Yeah. I think even just like not necessarily seeing the comments, but like going from Bachelor to Bachelor, I feel like there was like a huge change in me of like, oh, I don't want to do

these things I did on Bachelor. I did something embarrassing. I don't want to act that way. And just from seeing the comments or what people said, I feel like I tried to change myself. And now I'm finally coming out of that where I'm like, I am, and like I just have to be the way I am. But yeah, I definitely think when you have those things in front of you, it's like so easy to make that change. Because you're like, oh, well, that's like not good. I shouldn't do that anymore. I get what you're saying. I don't go on Reddit, but I do see the comments or if like I see a video about me on Tick-Tock I'm going to go through and look. Yeah, but it's, you know, it's never good.

Like, they never say good things. They never say good things. All right. Well, you're off the show. That's your fourth reality show. Maybe more in your future. Maybe go back into aviation. You talked a little bit about comments that you read.

The latest and greatest has been a little bit of a drama with Clayton. Clayton made some guy, you know, he was with you on this show. After 24 hours, he moved a different direction. And then Clayton talks a little bit about the fact that there, he, He was a little open-ended with the idea of why there were things that he didn't want to disclose that are reasons why he didn't end up working with you. And you had said it had to do with working out, like being active with the gym, with weights. That wants to be up and in the gym and eating a certain way and not drinking.

I mean, I think it is a lifestyle that I can't live. And I think being with someone like that, you would feel like they resented you if you don't do that. So I agree with him. It would be tough if he's like, I don't want to have snacks and I have cookies in the house or I don't want to go to the gym. It's like, it seems silly, but I really do understand it. Like, as much as I can. Are you, you've been through the gaulet? Are you guys cool now? Everything's amicable between you two? Yeah, I was so mad. I called him so many times when the interview came out. And obviously, I'm still seeing things of people being like, that's not the reason. Because when I was on the phone with him, I'm like, can you just go on a podcast and say

you don't like me and you don't think I'm attractive? It will put an end to everything. People can't question that? Like, can you just say it? He's like, no, I won't say it. I'm like, can you just then stop leaving these open-ended things? Like, there's something really wrong with me. And he's like, but that actually is the reason. I'm like, all right, like, that's the reason then. So, yeah, we're like, we talked and like, we had a long conversation and we're good. But I'm just like, oh my gosh, the fact that, like, he was the last. He was the last person I was worried about after this and he's been like my biggest stressor during the press of this so yeah I was shocking for sure that we were going at it wow wild stuff I know I'm glad

that you guys have like found some kind of calmness in this storm one last or a couple last questions I got as far as like your relationship with money now that you you know you're on your career track you're on a different career track you're making some good money now like what is your overall relationship with money are you more of a spender more of a saver what something maybe you overspend on? Give me a little Rachel Reckia money quick rapid fire. What's it like? Yeah. No, I do feel like I save my money. I'm not a big spender. Like I need a new car. I need so many things. I'm like, I just use what I have. I spend the most money probably a little bit more than I would like for my rent and then my student loans are crazy. So I'm basically like those are

my two main things. I did make obviously my big splurge like, sorry, this is like awkward, Like, I got my boobs done. And that was like my big spur for my bachelor's money. Could I ask how much it cost to get your boobs done? Well, I got them. Well, it's like a more invasive procedure than like if you get like the augmentation. It's like super easy. But a reduction is like a big surgery.

So the first time I think it was 15 and then I got another one and it was 10. Damn. So it was like ended up being. I got it done in Beverly Hills. I wanted to pick my doctor and not go through insurance. But that was like my big thing. And I haven't done a big thing since then. So it's just my rent.

in my student loans really good for you yeah that's how long is that like from start to finishing and fully recovered how long is that the first time it was like it took maybe a month and then the second time i did it like a couple days and i was back up that's awesome it was last but yeah so those are my my big purchases good stuff i love it 25k i'm glad you're living you're feeling good you're living good the last question i got for is what's next everyone wants to like i know we talked a little bit about maybe going on reality tv but if you had the crystal ball right here people want to know from a career perspective from a life move perspective like try and predict it manifest it five years two years one year give me a timeline of what you think is next for

rachel i know i think it's crazy because now that the whirlwind of this is over i genuinely have to sit down and like think about what i want because i feel like me going into the bachelor and me now and like it's so different obviously i'm going to be 30 next year so like there are things that i have to like really sit down and figure out what i want for like having kids and getting married and what I want. So I think right now, I really feel like the path I'm going to go on is like going back to work, wherever that takes me. And then like really. When you say go back to work like aviation? Yeah. And really just like hoping for a family. Like because I'm kind of needing to do that soon. So that would be the manifestation. Crystal ball, who knows. Like

I could go back and something could come up and who knows. But that is really what I've always wanted, so I think I kind of need to get back to what I wanted in the beginning. So we'll see, but you never know. Yeah. Well, don't put too much pressure on yourself long ago. You have plenty of time. Thank you. You're doing great.

And it's been so fun to talk to you about all the moving parts and, of course, the overlap and the community. We both are in and crumb. So you've got to love it. I'm sure we'll talk about a few things off camera, too. But let's wrap with the trading secret. So trading secret's unique to you. It's a piece of advice you would give someone else, given the experiences you've gone

through. It could be career. It could be life. It could be personal. It could be dating. One trading secret from Rachel Recchio. I wish I had like a quote or like a way to say like a secret. But I think the one thing about me like regardless of what anyone thinks about me is like I've always just been so resilient and like able to look forward like going through school and like hitting roadblocks with like my career and being in a male dominated field. I feel like I've really just had to always push past it even when I think I can't like I have to keep. going and same with The Bachelor and like why does she keep going back and I just feel like I always just have hope and I'm resilient and I wish I had like better advice but that's like just the one thing

that's gotten me through like just not be embarrassed and just keep pushing forward I love it I don't know no I love it I think I always like to say like what my trading secret is and it's funny that you said that because it's a rare that I repeat the trading secret but what I was going to say before you said it was in this space of reality TV, there are some people that get completely screwed, right? Those are those, those people exist, and it's a very small percentage, but they do. A lot of people, though, get all different types of, they go through all different cycles. And there are people that become the leads and get these opportunities that you did, and it's like smooth sell, no hurdles, no challenges. I feel like every single part of reality TV that you have been a part of,

this world you have had to deal with like massive massive challenges like some that are obvious some that aren't so obvious right i think some that are obvious you know of course what happened when you're on the bachelor some that are obvious there's two bachelettes one of the only times there's two bachelets for a full season ever i think some of the things that aren't as obvious are like you know dealing with the fact that you know there's two options dealing with the things that said comparing to women, dealing with another relationship, again, in the public eye, not working engagement, not working out. It takes a very special person, especially in this space where there are egos flying around everywhere to be as supportive to Gabby as you have been. And to be in that seat

cheering her on, dancing with the stars. That takes a special person and to continue to be that person through all of these wild challenges. It's a true reflection of you. And I also think it's a true reflection to anyone listening, like no matter how many times you think you're getting hit in the face, there's a reason for it, you'll grow through it, you'll become better through it, and you'll become like a perspective and a person that you probably never imagined you would become, like, through strength. So keep going. When you go back to becoming a captain on a commercial airline or a private airline, you're going to come back, talk about the industry. But in the meantime, congratulations on all your success.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I love it. All right, where can everyone find everything you have going on? All my handles are pilot Rachel. Can't forget it. That's right. Twitter on TikTok, IG. Go give her a follow and follow her story. Rachel, thank you for coming on.

Thank you. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing the bell to the Rachel Reckia episode. A lot of action. Deep talk went off the cuff. There wasn't a lot of sticking to the script, like most episodes. But this one was like an emotional one. It was a professional one, a financial one, but probably just a deeper one.

with the history that both Rachel and I have and the franchise and things we've gone through. David, I'm curious, you know, it's episodes like this. I just never know what to expect from you. Are you going to think we knocked out of the park? Are you going to think this episode sucked? I just don't know, but it was in the weeds.

Curious Canadian, David Ardoin, what did you think? Well, 250 episodes in, if I'm still keeping you on your toes, then I'm doing my job. Look, you know I'm not one to sugarcoat things. I'm always going to tell it how it is. It's gotten me in trouble sometimes. I don't really care. I thought this was genuinely one of the top five podcasts we've ever done.

Wow. Wait, I'm not laughing. First of all, Rachel, if you're listening to this, you crushed it. I told you after the episode, you crushed it. She was nervous coming into the episode. I said, you're going to do great. I did not expect you to say top five. you're talking we're talking top 2% right now yeah you know what for me it was just purely

refreshing every time i listened to an episode before we do the recap the first thing i look at because i'm like everyone else listening to this podcast we're all busy we all have other things we could be doing but when i click on the episodes i look to see how long they are and i'm usually more excited the shorter they are just so i can get through it i can get my notes done i can get my work done, I can, you know, it'll keep my attention for, it can only, I can dedicate so much time to it and keep my attention. I saw an hour and six minutes and I was like, fuck me. The hour and six minutes and then I listened to it. And I was just, it was an hour and six minutes. And it's so funny, you started with this too, because we didn't talk about what we're

going to talk about in the recap at all like we normally do. We came on. We said, let's rip it. You said it went off script and it was so awesome that it went off script. Because for about 25 to 30 minutes about the halfway to two thirds of the way through, you two were not podcasting. You two were having a genuine conversation. It was so relatable to us. It was so relatable for what you guys talked about, the Bachelor Nation fans who are so obsessed with your guys' journey to give us insight without even knowing it. And you guys were so supportive of one another, what you're both going through, you've

been through where you are now. And it was like totally, I could tell. I've seen you host a lot. I could tell that you like almost got lost in it too. And it was just having a genuine conversation with someone like you guys were at a, you know, at a bar having a martini catching up and just wanting to talk. And I thought that that was so beautiful and to a level that we haven't seen

in a long time. What's really cool. I mean, perfectly said, kind of like a really refreshing perspective. Actually, your response right there, which I wasn't expecting is kind of,

a depiction of what this episode was, wasn't expecting. And I did feel like there are so many times, especially in Batchar Nation, you have a cocktail with someone, you sit down, you open up about struggles you're facing, how to deal with it privately and publicly, and what the moving parts are. And after it, you're like, man, if people could only see that conversation, or let's just say fans of the show, what God, they would love it. That's what this felt like, actually. It felt like we were having a cocktail talking about some of the highs and lows from dating privately to dating publicly to the mix to the feedback without one worry or shred of fear of like what someone's going to think about just the authenticity of what we're actually

feeling. And that was that was kind of refreshing to it. For me, like you know, me and my guards are so up when we talk about this stuff to me to feel safe enough with her to even have those kind of conversations with someone that gets it. Like that was, that was refreshing for me. And I so respect her approach as well to talk about those things on such an open level. And I think because she ended up feeling so comfortable at the start when she was so nervous thinking it was just going to be about finances, when it came up about even the amount that she made being the Bachelorette, like she was so open to talk about it and wanting to share it because now it's connecting so many parts of the process. And, you know, we can take this recap a bunch of different ways. I just wanted to make sure that I said that because I do believe. leave it. And I know our Bachelor alumni franchise episodes usually do the best download-wise,

but I think this one was so different than all of the other ones that we've had. And like you said, it made me, who's seen Rachel on my TV, just watched Perfect Match, yada, yada, yada, it made me leave with such a greater appreciation for her and what she's been through and just to hear her story through her light. There's really a lot of empathy for someone. in those situations when they're on TV, you think they're, you usually don't have empathy for. You usually actually think the opposite. Usually think that there's entitlement or that they're, you know, they're, they're so fortunate to be there, their feelings, their emotions, their things don't matter, etc., etc.

So I just thought that that was, you know, her approach to it and your guys' connection. And to hear in the first couple minutes, you, it sounded like she guys, you guys were on opposite side of enemy lines. Like, I didn't, like, has there been some, like, were you guys not? close? Like, I don't know. Like, that to me was news too. So to know that that might have been a... What specifically are you referring to? She said

it, it was like in the first two minutes. I don't know if you said it or she said it. She's like, you know, because she's like fiercely in that like Bachelorette lead community, maybe you guys were... You or her said, you know, we've been on opposite side of enemy lines it felt like for a long time, but now

like we've actually started to like get to know one another and and obviously have built this friendship together. So, and I think it was Secret Alliance or something you guys said. I don't know, some jokes about it. But was there, what was the, like how, how, how has your relationship been? How did it come to a place where you got her in the podcast seat? I generally have no idea of people.

Usually I kind of cue these up because I know I generally have no idea. Without like getting too much in the weeds and respecting the privacy of like that conversation, here's how I'll summarize it. The first time I came across Rachel, an event, she was very kind and sweet. And she pretty much was like, you know, this world's small. And she kind of was saying, like, I've heard one side of a lot of stories. And it feels like, of course, everyone has their perspective. But some of the negativity thrown your way is undeserving.

And like, I'm curious, like, you know, just like like that. And I said, I, when she goes, and I haven't ever really seen you speak to it, essentially, right? Things that we've talked about here on this episode in this podcast. And I said, you know, well, we're in a private situation now. So I would love to hear what you've heard. And I would love the opportunity to give you my perspective. One, I certainly haven't shared and probably never will in a public for. them. And you can imagine that conversation went long. I think eyes were opened. And we've been friendly since. Is that? You say that with the biggest smile on your face? And I'm like, yes, I feel good about this. Yes, this is great. Thank you, Rachel, for being there for my friend in that time of consoling and opportunity to just speak like humans. And it's just to go back to what you said about like, you know, dating in the industry and she feels like I think at this point she needs to to feel like she can be with someone who's going through what she's going through. And I know that you obviously talked about, you know, having done that wanting to date

someone out of it. So you can feel all the things that a normal, quote unquote, normal relationship may feel in terms of support and communication and those things too. So I, you know what I'll say too. I got to say this. It's, um, she reminds me a lot of, She's not like Kelly as far as personality goes. Where she reminds me a lot of Kelly is in an industry in a place where next to no one keeps it real and says one thing in front of your face and another thing behind your back. And loyalty almost doesn't exist in this space, which is sad and sick and not the way you and I grew up. She keeps it so real. She keeps it.

And so like she'll come up to you and be like, listen, I don't want to play sides. but like just so you know x y and z what you want to talk about like you know like she's just so real like she she to me she's one of like the very like just she's just so real i can't say enough good things about her and when if something happens or she heard something or she wants to talk about it it's not favorable to you she's not she's like hey like hey just so you know like that person was you know bringing this up is that true like she's not hiding from it she's just so fucking real i love it Someone that you obviously clearly would be friends with if you met, if neither of you ever went on the show and you got introduced, you guys would be friends for sure. And that's 100%.

And also makes sense that she was able to get the opportunities to be a lead and to, you know, be on the show multiple times and be on perfect match. Because when if that is what she's projecting behind the camera, I mean, obviously she's gotten to the opportunity to make, you know, leads fall in love with her a la Clayton. and then also producers and execs fall in love with her to be on the show. But a couple of things that stood out about her bachelor journey that we have just never heard anyone talk about. One, I think the whole process of how she found out she was the bachelor. It was crazy.

How she admitted like, I find out when the world found out. We found out. And then we had to film in five days. She wasn't ready work wise. She wasn't ready body wise. She joked that she didn't even get time to get lip filler. Like she was all of a sudden just like there, like not feeling her best.

And also on the flip side of that, like really how fucked up her experience as a lead was. Like I've never heard her talk about that and that type of depth about how, you know, ABC made such a really, she said a bad decision and in putting the two girls in that situation to give the boys all the power. Well, I don't like these things about you. So I'm going to go date your friend or I'm going to leave the show or things like that. she talked about how her ego her confidence took a major major head she talked about how she really never felt like a lead um and it felt like they wanted her put her in that situation to leave the show not to celebrate her journey and finding love i just thought that whole conversation that she has added to all the other conversations that it spun off to and just a really interesting

perspective that i again go going back to my first take about why i think this is one of our best episodes a take that people who tune into the podcast who are fans of the show will just be like like, wow, like light bulb or feeling or, uh, experiencing something related to the show that they never thought about before. Yeah. You know, I think another thing too is like, you hear that perspective and you don't realize how hard that must have been. And I think in social media sometimes when someone doesn't play victim, we forget to like factor

in some of the like true things that are happening in their life and or, um, maybe they just don't showcase that side of their, like, humanity, if you will, like the human element is much. It's harder to see it. And when she speaks to it, and you take a second and you pause, you're like, oh, my God. Like, how hard did that have to be? How, and honestly, David, how hard, like, is it even currently? Like, she's, like, Rachel's doing great. She's on perfect match. People love her. Like, you know, she's great. And she's, but, like, in that same season, And she's, you know, with Gabby, she's talking about going back to pilot school, which is amazing and commendable and, like, good for her.

While also now her counterpart, Gabby is, is, I mean, taking over, maybe probably, arguably, the most relevant, highly sought after alumni of the franchise in this moment, this second. Like, that still has to, is supportive and kind and sweet in caring she is. like you know it's interesting to hear about like some of the mental anguish of stacking yourself up against others and having to be chosen and that's a real thing and I think anyone like at any capacity can relate to that vulnerability like no matter what you could be a hockey coach in Rochester and you stack yourself up to your other hockey coaches and peers and people in your space right it doesn't matter what industry or what you're doing like those are all real things and

be on that level and handle it with such grace and such class like fucking and hats off. Exactly. I think you sum that up really nicely. One thing I did want to touch on, she obviously talked about very positively about experience

on perfect match. It was really interesting to hear your guys' conversation about a bachelor people and how media cheering you are and how sometimes scared you guys are in front of a camera to say the right things or to not screw up because you know

the back end of it, heard a goal on perfect match. People are talking about followers. They're talking about, hey, let's make good TV. Hey, we got to make TV. and she's just out of her, out-of-body experience, but she said it allowed her to be free

and she really enjoyed the experience. Obviously, she's made some great relationships and friendships from that. You said they offered you to go on perfect match, which I think we've talked about on the show. You said you didn't go on perfect match. The main reason is because of me, I would like to say, no, I'm kidding.

But now that you've heard her experience, is there any part of you that regrets going on it? Because, you know, like finding a partner. There's always a side. There's always like a side of you that's like, hey, you know, like what that I've worked out. But I really don't think, for a lot of reasons, I don't think it's that, that's for, it's for me. Yeah, for probably the most, for probably the most important reason or let's just talk about the entertainment, the show, the bread, the things we talked about. I don't know, man.

I don't think I'm going on that show at all for the right reasons. And that's why I'm not. Like, I don't think I'm, I think if I say yes to that show, it's not because I'm going to go find my significant other on that show. It's just not. And that's when you get in trouble and that's when you become inauthentic. And as much as like you start to see, especially these days, the impact in a positive way that people are getting from reality TV because of the success of it.

Like, of course, that runs through your head. But it's like you start to lose your authenticity when you chase that shit. And then you're just like, it's not. not going to work. So, you know, let's just say, suppose it was a situation. I was ready to go and all the stuff. And I thought I could possibly find my significant other in that forum. I guess that'd be a different story. But there's many reasons I said no. One of them was for that. But huge fan of what Netflix is doing. I think it's really cool. I think it was awesome that, you know, they're working with Clayton and they're working with Rachel. And those two were a huge part

of that narrative like we talked about. Yeah. And, um, yeah, man, we, you know, I'm talking Netflix. I, I, I just love the network. I love what they're doing on unscripted. I think it's going to be really cool to see, you know, Harry, what, when Harry, um, Jousy, who's coming on this podcast, they have a show about him pretty much being the bachelor. It's going to be so fascinating for a guy like you and I to analyze that show versus the bachelor. How does it connect? What does it look like? But, um, yeah, man, that's, that's all I got to say about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's pretty much all I got to say about this episode. I think I left it all out there, as they would say.

I put my stamp of approval on this podcast. I thought you and her did amazing. And like I said, an hour and six minutes when I turned it on, I was like, what am I in for? I've heard this Bachelor talk before, and it was so different. And I just, you know, I think the viewers will relate to what I said. I think for a big chunk of this, you and her stop podcasting. And I think that that is the sign of a really, really great podcasting.

podcast. So kudos to you. Kudos to Rachel. Great job. I knew it was going to be a good one when we finish. I told her she crushed it. I did not expect David to say a top five episode, but I will tell you this. This past week, I just had an interview. I finished the interview and I said without a doubt, without a doubt, that's a top 25 episode I've ever had the pleasure of being a part of. That was with Bobby Bones. And that episode is coming out soon. you David are going to love it authentic to his core honest no bullshit we got the numbers we got the depths we got the opinions you're not going to believe one story there's one story in that episode you will not believe in unless you hear from him uh but i look forward to that one please

remember to hit follow go follow us on youtube please give us five stars let us know your feedback or biggest takeaway from this episode david anything before we're at yeah we are going we are on route to the bills game go bills let's go baby what's your final score prediction about the time this comes out the game will be over I am a believer but I am not a believer in this game here's why cornerbacks we got cornerback injuries Lamar's coming in hot number one rated MVP

we need to get our defense healthy I think we are going to lose 2724 okay Bill's underdog at home week one I got to take the underdog at home the hungry dogs I gotta stick with my guy Josh

and I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be like a 2824 I'm close to you but flipping the flipping the teams you got the logic in the heart my heart wants to go bills my logic is saying I just don't know if we have it this week

but I think we're going big time this year so we'll talk about that later a lot of action coming on Dancing with the Stars has happened in Paradise just wrapped we got a lot of things to cover with pop culture meets money. Make sure to follow along.

Thank you for tuning into another episode of Trade Secrets, one you couldn't afford to miss. My mouse can't handle another dull drink. Summertime smoothie experts everywhere are recommending a watermelon wake-up from booster juice. It's so smooth, cool, and refreshing. And ridiculously delicious. Enjoy the watermelon wave and watermelon explosion smoothies

available all summer long at a booster juice near you. Stay cool, Canada. Booster Juice, Canadian-born. Blending since 1999.