Trading Secrets - 253: Bobby Bones: $12k in billboards with millions in return?! Breaking down the pendulum of the audience, lessons learned in his upbringing, relationship with money, and proving your value

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

This week, Jason is joined by radio personality, author, TV host, and all around trailblazer, Bobby Bones! Bobby rose to national fame with the Bobby Bones Show, a nationally syndicated radio show that redefined country radio and became a staple for millions of listeners across the US. He’s a two time New York Times bestselling author, a Dancing With the Stars Champion, and beloved mentor on American Idol. But Bobby’s story isn’t just about success, it’s about grit, resilience, and staying true to your roots while chasing something bigger.  Bobby opens up about how his upbringing shaped his perspective and became a strength in his career, the resilience that helps him cut through the noise, and why he decided to build his own syndication company with his own money. He shares the story behind the infamous “Go Away Bobby Bones” billboards, the “illegal” training he did to sharpen his moves for Dancing With the Stars, and what proving value really means to him. Bobby also breaks down the benefits of long-form content over TV for career longevity, why he was scared of debt even after making his first million at 30, and the key differences between radio and podcasting. From the importance of owning your IP, to why he considers Taylor Swift a genius, to the artists and interviews that stand out most in his career—Bobby doesn’t hold back. Plus, he reveals who makes it onto his personal Mount Rushmore and gives a rare glimpse into his personal life. Bobby reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss! Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest:Bobby Bones Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Trading Secrets Steals & Deals! Boll & Branch: Feel the difference an extraordinary night’s sleep can make with Boll & Branch. Get 15% off plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at BollAndBranch.com/tradingsecrets *Exclusions apply. Nutrafol: See thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in just 3-6 months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering $10-off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code TRADINGSECRETS. Trova Trip: If you've been pushing that dream trip down the road, here's your shortcut. Head to trovatrip.com and use code TRADINGSECRETS for $100 off your first trip. UpWork: Posting a job on Upwork is easy; with no cost to join, you can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. YouTube Title: Needs to be 100 characters or less  | Trading Secrets w/ Jason Tartick

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tardik, and welcome to the pre-market trading segment. I'm going to tell you just a little bit about what you can expect with this episode. Tell you what's happening in my personal life. A couple updates in the market, and then we will get into our main segment. and our main segment, I said when I finished this interview, is one of our top five interviews so far with over 250 episodes. This is one of my favorites.

Now, we have Bobby Bones on. You're going to hear all about his story from growing up in the trailer park, some of the things that happened there during his childhood that made him who he is today, how much he made on an American Idol, how much he makes doing his radio work. and I'm going to give you a little teaser here. The number 30 to 40 million will come up in that conversation and just know when it does we're talking about annually. But you'll have to wait to hear what I'm saying

to understand what that means and why. We'll talk about what he paid for a billboard to put something negative about himself on it. That's coming and so much more. This was a deep one. This was a good one. And my respect for Bobby Bones is next. level after this episode. So definitely listen to it through because I just loved the honesty.

I loved the honesty. Now, one thing happening in the market you should know about, are you feeling confident with your job? The job's confidence index report just came out. And this is the lowest confidence people that have had with their jobs since 2013. What does that mean? Well, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York does a survey. And they ask a large poll of people, how come confident do you feel that if you left your job today within three months, you could find a job at your level or at a better level. Forty-four point nine percent of the people said they felt confident that they could do that and that is the lowest number we have seen since 2013. We also know that the youth unemployment rate is over 10%. The unemployment rate in August was at 4.3%, which is the

lowest we've seen since 2021 with only 22,000 new jobs added. So a lot of action. when it comes to that. And as a result of it, we're probably going to see is rates decrease in September. More to come. I'll cover more of that. But this week, I'm really excited about chill week in Nashville. I have my parents coming to visit, and then it gets crazy. The next week I'll be in New York. I'll be at Ryder Cup. And then I may or may not be heading to Fiji. More to come on that. But enough of the Fiji talk. Let's get into the episode with the one the only one of what I thought was my top five favorite interviews, Bobby Bones. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by radio personality,

author, TV host, an all-around trailblazer, Bobby Bones. Bobby Rose de National Fame with the Bobby Bones show, a nationally syndicated radio show that redefined country radio and became a staple for millions of listeners across the U.S. He's a two-time New York Times bestselling author, a Dancing with the Stars champion, a beloved mentor on American Idol. But Bobby's story isn't just about success. It's about grit, resilience, and staying true to your roots while chasing something bigger. So whether you're tuning in for inspiration, music, industry insights are just great conversation. You're in for something special. Bobby, thank you so much for being on Trading Secrets.

That's a very nice intro. Yeah. Thank you. Well, well deserved. Your resume is stacked. I've been studying all about you in preparation for this. It's amazing what you've accomplished. but I always find with people that have accomplished outlying success, I want to go to the root of success. And what's interesting is your story growing up. You said you grew up at a trail park, you had your father abandoned the family, and your mother had you at 15. And I think about those roots and those foundation. And I'm just curious, when you go back to that Bobby, what is it about your upbringing that you think has allowed you to differentiate in what is such a competitive field? I think for me the goal was getting out when you come from a very rural area like I come from

where there's not a lot of resources I see and I saw every day how it's easy to get trapped in that there aren't a lot of people to guide you out because a lot of folks haven't gotten out and I think it's been a great thing that hopefully I've been able to do and be an example and so that would I think the hardest part was just having an understanding that there was a way out for me there wasn't a lot of structure growing up you know my dad left when I was five My mom was an addict. She ended up dying in her 40s. And I moved around a lot, and my grandmother raised me.

And so there was such instability that I found stability in a couple of things. And one of them oddly was just reading books. I felt like the more I read, the smarter I could be and the smarter I could be. I could be like people on TV, and I got to go and chase my dreams. Like that was it. I would just see people on TV doing it. And there really wasn't anybody that told me I could. But the great thing, too, about being in a place where there aren't a lot of resources

and people was there weren't people telling you you couldn't because everyone was so focused at just like paying rent and eating yeah you know there wasn't like you're not going to be able to do this so to have the freedom and i think it's a double-edged sword to pursue my own interests i mean that that was very valuable for me i just didn't want to grow in a place where i felt like it was always dangerous to be and it wasn't dangerous like crime-wise but it was dangerous because there was no there wasn't always food there wasn't always safety you know i never had a bedroom growing up i slept on the couch and living room in a very active place so until i got to college and i was the first person to graduate high school and go to college i never had like walls

and so i used to be very resentful of that and i used to you know be sad for myself that i had to go through it, but as I got older, and I think this kind of answers your question, as I got older, I started to understand that that was a tool that I was able to develop. And I have crazy tenacity because this business, any art, any entertainment is all knows. And I had to develop like a thick skin in life as a child very young. And I had to be able to take no and try to continue to turn it into yeses and not be offended by that because i think it very easily can be offensive when people say we don't like you or we don't think what you're doing is either good or good for us and to have the ability to go gotcha but i'm going like that was something that came

into play and was very valuable for me and still is very valuable for me now because i don't consider myself the most skilled person really at anything i think my superpower is i really don't stop And I don't think that it's a great part of me, but I think it's something that I've developed through a lot of not having the opportunity to stop when I was young because I wanted to get out. You talk a little bit about just like your upbringing and like where you came from

and the strong roots that have built. One thing that no one can argue is that success aligns with your career. One thing people can talk about though is in something you kind of mentioned is like, I think it's fair to say that Bobby Bones people love them or people have even something to say. There's noise.

Dancing with the Stars. you can say hate right yeah yeah right there's a lot of noise i have to be definitive in everything that i do right and that's kind of what i was going to say is like with that pull around even you know i put up a thing about ask people submit questions for bobby bones there are hundreds and there are some people every single day i listen to every single show is my favorite there's some people bringing up your taylor swift interviews swifties there's all these opinions and these things but the thing is success has always been at the forefront of what you do and how you do it no one can argue that they can argue you weren't the best dancer, I danced for the stars, but you won. Do you think, and a lot of

people would be broken in these situations where there's so much noise, do you think the foundation of your upbringing has a lot to do with your ability to be resilient and adaptable, irregardless to what people say? I don't think I would be here if I wasn't resilient. Like, again, I don't have anything that I'm really great at. Yeah. Except just pushing on and learning. My whole second book was that. It was me going, these are all the times that I've sucked. Basically, everything that I do now, I really sucked at at some point. And when it wouldn't work out, I just kind of discovered why and tried to get better. But if I'm not extremely defined in everything that I do, and at times, I have opinions and

they're normal opinions, but I really have to amplify them in order to matter. Sure. And so I understand that if people don't not like me, people aren't going to love me. And if people don't love me, people, there has, there's a pendulum. And for what I stand for, there has to be people that don't stand for that. The bolder you get the opposite side, it's always equal reaction. I learned that very early, and that doesn't bother me anymore. And mostly it's, I have to have the negative. I don't like it. So it's a weird relationship. If there's not the negative, there's not the positive. Because what makes people feel the best about me is also what really bothers some people. Sure. And so it's very pendulum. My success, the most success I've ever had have been times when I've

been, I don't really use the word polarizing because I'm not overly political, but everything that I say, I need to have conviction behind it or it doesn't exist in the space. There's 10,000 people saying 10 different things at 10,000 times. Nothing cuts through. Everything is so oversaturated that if you're going to say something, you have to say something, again, with such conviction that maybe you have the opportunity to be heard. And so when people are, I don't like this, I don't like that. I have to have that because that's also what makes people like it. I love it.

I think it's fascinating. It's kind of like the old WWF, WCW, now WWE rule. We don't care if they hate you. We don't care if they love you. We just need to hear the crowd. If the crowd's not speaking, then we need to take you off the stage. And it's worked tremendously. And it's really interesting to hear just the idea of amplifying it.

One question I had for you later on, but now that we're talking about it is I heard this story that, you know, we're going to talk about the Bible. Bobby Bone show, all about it. Extreme success, 20 plus years, billion plus listens. We're going to get into that. But I heard a story, true or false, you tell me,

there was a little bit of noise when you came to Nashville about the show. Everybody hated me. I was completely different. I'm trying to be polite. Listen, don't pull any punches. You don't have to pull any punches. It was brutal.

It was brutal. It was brutal. So I started and I was doing pop and hip hop. and I mean I had signed a record deal as a hip hop artist at one point right so musically I got to be in the generation when digital music first started to exist so even though I was from the rural south

and grew up on country music I was very much an alternative kid I went to a school that wasn't all white so I was very much into hip hop but that wasn't weird because we had Napster we had limewire and you could be influenced by everything but also I never got into radio for music at all it was all about sensibility because I talk

even now we play a couple of songs. I don't hear them because we're on all over the country. And our podcast, there's no music. And our digital footprint is now bigger than our linear footprint. And so it was never about music for me, but it was about the sensibilities of the people that listened to that type of music. And so I built my own syndication company with my own money because nobody wanted to syndicate me because I sounded different. I was too country to do pop and hip hop. When I went to country, I was too pop to do country. But I knew that most people were like me and that they existed and they didn't need to have a loud polarizing voice

because most people don't complain about something when it bothers them. There's a fraction that seems like the whole world. And so I came to Nashville because my company said, hey, we're going to put you in New York or L.A. And they didn't. And Ryan had re-signed Seacrest in L.A.

And Elvis in New York. And so here I was in Austin. I'd built my own syndication company with my own money. How much did it cost you? When I started, it was about $3,000 like a machine, and I'd buy like eight machines. I was making $61,000, putting like $31,000 back into it after taxes. It wasn't good.

But one of the great things that I talked about earlier was I grew up very poor. It was easy to be poor. It wasn't hard to be poor because I knew how to do it. So I was able to invest the money that I was making back into me and still struggle, but struggling was the baseline. But I felt like if I was struggling and growing, that wasn't struggling. The story I heard, though, with all the hate that you got, is you actually took some of the money you had,

which wasn't much at the time, and bought billboards that were actually creating a narrative to hate yourself. Is that true or false? It's a bit. And so when I moved to town, it was bad for me because I was so different. But that's always been the case. So they put me on a bunch of traditional country stations with cowboy hat-wearing radio people that play a lot of music.

Well, here I come. I'm not a cowboy hat wear or belt buckle wear. I'm kind of what you would call trailer park country, not cowboy country. Oh, no. these Louis Vuittances shoes. Those aren't country. Sure. Well,

that's what I happen when you give a trailer park kid money. I like that. So I move here and it's rough. And I had to think to myself, how can I strategize my way out of this? So I learned how to build basically a shell company. And I went and I bought the two biggest billboards

in the middle of Nashville. And all I wrote was go away Bobby Bones on it with no credit to anybody. How much of those billboards cost? Like $12,000. Wow. And so I put them up and I thought, if nobody finds out i win but the problem is there are loose lips everywhere so i told nobody

the only person that knew it was me was the guy that ran the billboard company and i paid him extra i didn't know what an india was yet so he didn't sign that but i paid him extra and i said say nothing and my plan was either people were going to go i agree i disagree who or that's mean so there were like four avenues people could go down but i knew they would make people wonder and hopefully make people care. And so I put them up and I said nothing. For a year and a half, my company was investigating who was putting them up. The news, local news was trying to figure out who put them up and shout out to the got the billboard company for never saying anything. My show didn't know. My friends didn't know. So it was so important that I not tell anyone. I revealed it in my first

book and I wrote a chapter about it and actually why I did it. And I sent it to the Washington Post because they wanted to read the book and write an article on it. And that's the story they chose to right and then it turned into oh we found out no i told it would have never it would have never been known and it was the greatest thing i've ever done as far as doing something to get people to notice me for the first time because i'm okay with the yeah we agree go away i'm okay with that because it's also going to generate the other side as well so for me i don't know that i would have existed or had longevity here had i not done that so that 12 000 if you had to do the math in your head what millions of dollars millions in return millions of dollars wow that's a good investment right

It's a good one. I wish more were like that. Damn, that's pretty good. Have you done anything of the sort similar to that that you haven't spoke to or you have spoke to? That's the opposite strategy but creates positive impact for you? That I talk about now? No, because I'm still waiting to write a book about it. No. You're like, they're in there. They're in the fall. There were times where I would go onto message boards not as myself and write bad things about myself and then use that in order to share to go, can you believe this? So there's a lot of that. I haven't done that in a while, but that was a pretty effective strategy for a while. So in dancing with the stars, then, when people are hating on you for being a terrible dancer

but winning, you're thriving off that. That is your bread and butter. You love the opposite critic of what you're supposed to be. And I want to say it again in case I've communicated. It doesn't feel good, but it's needed. It's like working out. I hate going to the gym, but I know I have to do it in order to get the results from it. So it never feels good when people say you suck. However, if they don't think I suck, the opposite type of person is not going to love me it is it is a pure pendulum and like i'm always consistent with who i am dancing with the stars was weird because i never wanted to do the show i had never danced not once i was on american idol i did four years on american idol and they said hey go and do dancing with the stars to promote

american idol and i was like okay but i've never danced and they were like it's fine nobody wins that show that's never danced and you'll be off in four weeks and i'm like great but just so you guys know I'm going to go as hard as possible. Like, I don't do anything halfway. No problem. And that show, they don't tell you how you're actually doing. All you know is you're surviving. I was fish out of water.

I had no idea what I was doing. I cheated in the way of, they give you a limited amount of time with your partner. Like four hours a day, they say. So we would do our full work. I would record the session and then go by myself and rent a studio myself and train myself to, like illegally, like spent time over.

Because you're not allowed to go over their allocation. You're not allowed to go over your time. So I would go and train because I was so far behind everybody else. And I was still doing the radio show every day, waking up at 3 a.m. in L.A. and touring doing stand-up on the weekends. And so it was the hardest part of my life as far as how difficult it was to just eat, stay hydrated, and work and think in a normal manner. And then I started to dance. And I wasn't in any way polarizing on the show other than I sucked.

Because I didn't run out And like, I'm the best I tried as hard as I could And I got sevens A couple sixes A couple eights Fell on your first dance, right? I fell hard, tore my shoulder

I had to go To an NFL team doctor And he was like It's going to hurt really bad But you're not going to make it worse I'll write you a note As long as you know You're going to deal with pain every week

Wow And so I didn't tell anybody that Except for doctor cleared me Because the doctor did clear me But I tore the top of my shoulder toward the top of my shoulder here. And so they shot me up. I was going to say,

there's no other way to do that. Every week. They shot me up every week. Wow. Not show doctors, not network doctors. Oh, off the record. Had to.

It hurts so bad. Interesting. Because I fell and wiped out and tore my shoulder. That's tough. I had never finished that dance on that first dance ever until the night of the show.

I tried to practice, never got it, never got it. That was the first time I completed it. So I just started jumping around. And I wiped out, tore my shoulder. And every week, I just survived. I was as surprised as anybody. And then once the hate started to happen,

I realized that it was from a small section of hardcore fans of that show. I was never going to win them anyway. It's like my career. The people that are not for me now, they were never going to be for me. So why am I trying to win something that I never have a shot with anyway?

So I felt like that on the show too. Like traditionally, people like traditional dancers, you ain't gonna like me because I have no idea what I'm doing. I was very transparent about that on the show, very vulnerable. like guys I'm clueless and the fact that I was winning made it difficult on people who had always watched the show but it turns out and they told me after the season was over I from one to two I was

the highest separation ever in the history of that show of votes which shows you it's a very non-vocal majority normal people don't complain on Instagram I think the the quote from one of the executive was I could have peed on stage in my final dance and won but they never told me that and I was anxious as crap every week nervous because i'm again fish out of water doing that but after and again it's it was easy for me after the fact to hear that and they changed the rules because oh yeah they didn't ever want me to happen again because i was kicking good people off it wasn't that i was winning so now you can save someone because of you they're gonna have to call it the bobby bones rule they they won't they should but yeah but that show that they're the hardcore fans of that show are very mean

i love doing that show though as far as i learned a lot about myself i had the lowest odds going into it because they do betting odds. I won. It's crazy. I can't believe it. It's crazy. I can believe in the fact that I've done some pretty wild things by just hanging in there. Yeah. It's like if a tiger's chasing, you just don't be the slowest. And that's what I did every week. And made it. And so yeah. Hot days, human nights and nonstop plans, all that heat can increase hair shedding, while a pack schedule can also add stress, which can impact your hair. Nutra Falls, whole body approach, and clinically tested formulas support your hair from within so you can focus on living your best life all summer long. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist's recommended hair growth supplement

brand, trusted by over one and a half million people. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. I take it every single day. Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutraful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafall.com and enter promo code trading secrets. Find out NutraFault is the best selling hair growth supplement brand at NutraFol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com promo code trading secrets. That's NutraFol.com promo code trading secrets. Do you still watch the show?

I have friends that go on occasionally. Okay. And I have friends that are still dancers on the show, the pros. Like, Sharnah doesn't dance anymore on, but Emma Slater is a close friend. That's great. Yeah. So I have friends that are still on that show. Who do you think is the best pro?

I mean, I have to, I'm going to. going to say Sharna. Okay. Because she was, she was, and I was the closest to her. Yeah. Right?

Like I have an intimate relationship in that. That's the, you love, hate, our friends, our enemies all within, sometimes a day because you're so close to your partner,

especially if you want to win. And so Sharna was excellent and she was really hard, but I needed that. It's a trading secret that a lot of the dancers will find studios off the actual lot to continue practice.

I did not say that. So it sounds like, Yeah, I know. I know it too. It happens. I, whatever, I said it. It is what it is. We got to hear that you do it. Let's talk business, though. You got the radio show going. You got American Idol going. You got all this stuff going on. So therefore, your time, of course, equals money. How do you negotiate to go on a show like this? What are the financial benefits of being on Dance with Stars? Well, the first benefit was American Idol was paying me a lot of money to do that show. When I did American Idol year one, they called me on to do one episode and they paid me like union minimal,

$2,500. They didn't know much about what I did, or even honestly, some of the executives didn't know where I lived. They brought me on to work with the contestants on how to be interviewed and how to answer questions on camera or a microphone. And I related to a lot of the kids and young adults because they came from places like where I came from. I'm from a small town of 700 people.

I grew up basically in poverty. That's how a lot of those kids are. This is their first shot to even see a big city. So I think what was noticed with me and them was there was an instance. instant connection of, oh, I know what you're feeling. And let me kind of tell you my story. And I can't tell you how to do it, but I can tell you how I did it. And maybe this will help. So they brought me back for a second episode. Again, they didn't know I wasn't living there. So I'm flying back and forth. I'm losing money the first four episodes. So they're paying me

$2,500 an episode. It's costing me like $3,000 to stay in a hotel, to pay for flights. And so they said, hey, would you do more episodes that first season? I was like, guys, I got to be honest with you. I'm losing money. So they gave me $50,000 to do the last episode. And I was like, this is awesome. So you went from $2,500 to $50,000 in one episode. Yes, for the finale. Yeah. And so I finished that season and they're like, hey, we want to bring you back. And I'm like, I can't do it at the same rate. Here's my job here. And they said, we will give you, I think it was like $300,000 for the season. And my manager was like, I don't think that's enough. We're going to hold out. They ended up paying me $1.2 million for that whole season.

damn how many episodes are there i think i did like 12 episodes that might be the biggest raise of anybody entertainment 2500 episodes to 1.2 million one year and to me it was i was able to prove through my action my value because they weren't ever going to pay me that on the surface and i went in and i took way less in order just to prove i'm going to be here i'm going to have a great attitude i'm going to have a great work ethic but i'm also going to provide some value that you didn't even know. And I was able to provide that to them, to which they said, we will now pay you more. Episode, or season three and four was even more than that. So American Idol was awesome to me. So because they were so awesome, they want me to do Dancing with the Stars. Okay, great. You

me wear a tutu? No problem. Whatever you want. And so I went and did the show because they were so loyal to me. And that was the original reason that I did it. But that show pays okay. Like, first episode, no money. Second episode, 10,000. I think it's like 10,000, 10,000, 20,000. 20,000. It doesn't mean 50,000 an episode if you last. But you get an original base to yeah, like 110 or something. Yeah, some like that, right. So I ended up making close to $400,000 from that show. Interesting. So financially, pretty good. But what I was able to do

and get from that was so much greater than the money that they were paying me. Because I was already making a lot of money here at this point. So it really wasn't even about the money. But the incentive was the people that bet on me at ABC, Disney, They wanted me to do this, and I really wanted to prove them right. 12,000 you spent on the billboards. We saw a return of millions. 400,000 you get paid over the course of two, three months at Dancing with the Stars.

You win. What do you think the PR and total value to the brand of Bobby Bones was for winning Dancing with the Stars? I think because right after that, I got my own show on that Geo that was Disney. From that, I did breaking Bobby Bones. You know, it splits into so many different tributaries. I mean, millions of dollars again. Millions again.

I think the fact that I took less money and showed up to that one episode, two episode. Again, that's my $12,000 in that world. Interesting. It makes sense. Doing that, proving my value is my $12,000 in the billboard world and going, hey, I just want to try this. And if you trust me and then I can prove to you, it'll be worth it. And, yeah, I was able to do wonderfully. I've just never been motivated by money.

And I think that's why I make a lot of it now because I don't need money. I'm good without it. It's awesome having it. Like, it's the greatest. I got an expensive watch. It's crazy. And I have a lot for somebody from Mountain Pine, Arkansas. But because I've never been motivated by it, I don't need to chase it.

And because I don't need to chase it, I continue to do things I love to do. And if you do things you'd love to do, you do them better. And then all the way back around, if you do them better, people value that and reward you for it. You've said prove value over and over just in the last probably five minutes. I think about prove value. There's people that listen to this podcast in all different companies, all different industries, doing all things, different day to day. A lot of people know what the value that they bring.

bring to their, let's say, their company because it's objective. Someone in business development sales, they can see objectively what they do and how they do it. In an industry like TV, you keep saying, I wanted to prove my value. That's why I took it for 2,500. How do you know what your value is to them? And how do you know what they're looking at to say he's been a success in such a subjective world like TV and hosting? I think you said it right. It's all subjective. And so I have to prove to the decision makers that their decision is not going to get them fired. And then from not get them fired, it's if they're not with me now, they're going to lose something. And so I have the idea when I start anything that nobody believes in me. And it's just from being a kid. It's from growing up

in that environment. So that's always inside of me. And it's always a, well, I will prove them wrong. And then once they believe in me, I will prove them right forever. And I've been able to eliminate to prove them wrong from, from, like, how I feel about things. And I think the first 10 years of my career was screw everybody, burn it all down, I'm going to prove everybody wrong. But there were people that bet on me. And my goal now is to continue to prove them right. And that has been such a shift even in how I approach life every day.

And the entertainment world is so subjective. And proving value is making sure somebody that makes decisions, in an entertainment world doesn't lose their job if it doesn't work out. On top of that, reducing liability, do they ever show you anything like Q rating or anything like that? I live being researched constantly.

And the research is always normal person from the South, because I have an accent, I'm not so good looking that it makes the guys uncomfortable. I'm not so ugly that the girls don't like me. It's never like you're good looking you get this, it's always like, you're just good looking enough to not make people vomit.

So that's, that's a, yeah, that's a bit of what it is. And so, but I've, I've really found my niche there. And I have a terrible vision. But I always think, well, if someone were to draw a character of me, I need to be, I need to stand out, especially in a world where you have to stand out. So my right eye has never worked. And I started wearing these glasses to protect my one good eye but I wanted to wear bold glasses so if someone had to draw a sketch of me you'd be able to draw a sketch without detail and know it was me so that was strategically as a part of my glasses are part of your brand absolutely now do you need those glasses absolutely my right eye doesn't work my left eye is now pretty bad okay so my right eye has never worked when you say never

worked just vision it's never worked I was born with like 8% vision in my right out way interesting yeah so when I was wearing glasses younger it was to protect my one good eye because if I lost it then I would be fully blind. Yeah. But now, yeah, everything sucks. My eyes suck just in general. Okay. But, you know, that was a part of the strategy as well.

Like make people remember you somehow and visually is a big part of it as well. American Idol started at 2,500, got up to 1.2. What's the most you ever been paid on American Idol? I have 1.5. And so when something like that for renewal happens, I think when people hear that when I hear that were like, why wouldn't you stay on American Idol? Is it because it comes to subjectivity of who they renew and how it works? Or why aren't you still with American Idol?

Got offered a different show. Interesting. So I left American Idol. So I did American Idol and Breaking Bobby Bones on Disney Plus around the same-ish time. It was tough to do both. And then NBC was like, hey, we want you to come and do a show for us on Peacock. And on American Idol, I was fifth string. Like I was on every episode, but you had the three judges, Luke and Lionel and Katie.

And Ryan was the host. And I hosted the show when Ryan got sick once. I was basically if Ryan went down, the guy that would go in and do that. but I also had a lot of contestant like bonding as well they would put on camera and I would mentor them on what songs to sing

and what keys to sing it in how to do interviews I was just like that guy and Ryan was so famous at that point that and you had three judges that were super famous that's not real relatable

to the contestant because they look like they're super millionaire cartoon characters sure it's hard for them to be real with somebody who they look at

is so famous instead they have star eyes with me they didn't have star eyes I was just a dude they didn't know who I was sure And so that worked for me on that show. And NBC offered me a show called Snake in the Grass,

and we went to Costa Rica and lived there for a while. And I hosted that on Peacock. And so I made way less money, but it's never been about the money. Never. No. I mean, I'll take like a private stand-up gig sometimes because it's paying me $150,000,

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consulting or banking or whatever. And when they leave to go to competitors, there could be a lot of, let's just a ripple effect. When you're in the ABC Dancing with Stars, American Idol family, and then you take an opportunity with NBC, does that ripple effect still occur from network to network? Not really. Everybody moves around those jobs so much. I have people that I worked with at ABC that move to NBC, that move to CBS. It's like anything in the creative space. People are just trying to survive and everybody's moving job to job. It's not really a job that you keep for a long time anyway. Everything is fickle in television as well. Like it's... What do you mean by that? In my job, I can sign a long-term contract and I know that I've built an audience and a base

and I do long-form content. So there is a connection. There is a trust because they've spent a lot of time with me. And I have podcasts that I listen to where I feel like I know the hosts and I never met them in my life. And that's the benefit of long-form content. On television, you don't have a lot of long form. So it might be cool to see them for a second, but you don't establish a relationship like you do with long-form content creators. I could leave everything I'm doing now I'm not at eye heart and start over and a lot of my people would come with me because they feel like they know me where if I have a TV show and people watch me for a couple minutes and I go to a new show they may not come to the show just because they saw me for

three minutes and 19 seconds full in an hour episode so yeah so that is been what's key for my longevity is long form content where television audiences and Seacrest was the one to tell me this he was like dude never leave your podcast and your radio show Because as soon as you do that and chase TV, you'll have a show and it'll be gone in a year. So completely different types of audiences. You've done, obviously totally different audiences, different model and everything. You've done radio and podcasting much, much longer than TV, but you still have a big presence on TV and some of the biggest shows at the time that you were on.

Have you seen more upside, let's say from fanship, brand equity, and just community on TV or radio? by far audio not even close not even close wow yeah i mean like nine nine to one i'm i can always tell the kind of person by the kind of person that comes up to me what they know me from though if they're like 80 they watch dancing with the stars if they're a family you know it's it's a type of person that watches and if someone's like hey if it's a dude they you know i do i work for the NFL and i they probably consume some of the NFL content that i do um so that's been cool to have these different like silos that i that I work in and work out of. But yeah, no, it's by far.

Audio and video, long-form content. And TV's even weird now. Like, there's not a need to be on TV anymore. What we're doing now, currency is eyes and ears. However, you get it. And if you own your IP, it's so much more valuable than doing a TV show for a year and a half.

For sure. We'll talk to you about the trends that are happening now in 2025. Before we do, we have to get to the foundation of your empire, the Bobby Bone show. So I started, my understanding is 20-plus years ago, nationally syndicated over 10 years.

billion plus listens. We talked money on this podcast. It sounds like on an interview you did in 99. I think it was. You were doing radio part-time for like seven bucks an hour, minimum wage. Your first contract was 50,000. Fast forward, you now have a show that's doing 10 million listens a month. Talk to me about what it looked like from an earnings perspective and growth perspective with the Bobby Bone show from day one to today. I mean, I made, yeah, seven bucks an hour forever. And anything creative, there's no money until there's a lot of money. Any art. Because everybody wants to do it. It's art and athlete. You don't make any money doing anything until you really make a lot of money. And that's because you've, and I've said it a bunch of times,

you've proved your value. Right? Because nobody's going to pay you for something that they're just speculating on. You've got to have proven it in an art in some way for somebody to bet on you and spend their own money. And I tell a lot of my artist friends now, if they're spending money on you, they believe in you and that you're going to make money for them. That's the entire with art commercially, like if you're not making them money, they're not going to invest in you. And so that's kind of how it was for me.

Again, I spent a whole bunch of money. I was in the hole for many years. I lived in Austin, built my own syndication company. You know, when I left Austin, I was doing pretty good. I was making a few hundred thousand bucks a year, and it was awesome. I think I probably made my first million at 30. and then it's been it's been wild since then

and I think the best thing that I've ever done is I've never been in debt because I've been scared to have debt I never wanted to owe anybody anything and so I was in no debt when I was poor and now that I'm rich now it's crazy and now that I have a bunch of money I still I'm never in debt

but I've been able to buy houses and sell houses and without having to worry about owing anybody anything and you know Dave Ramsey sometimes is like you should have debt and but it's also like hey make sure you can afford not to have debt and for me that's been the coolest part of it but now yeah now it's it's bizarre and also i think that the craziest part for me having money is seeing like all the ways that people that are rich get away

with being rich and all the people that are poor have no idea and it sucks it sucks it's it's what motivates me to and i don't think i'll get into politics but it's what motivates me to try to affect change that way because it is a perpetual trap that people that grow up without resources are in like there are so many loopholes that rich people use and now I know them it's non-stop it's crazy yeah well you don't get access those to those unless you have the network of the liquidity to do it how would you know anything about yeah yeah exactly oh that's interesting in radio and in your industry there's highs there's lows people have been saying for decades now radio's going to go away we've seen transition to podcast podcast industry is massive we've seen

creator economy it's going to be 500 billion by 2030 there's a lot of change has your income as a result of that change throughout the years or would you say it's always been you know every year it's just moving in an upward direction when it comes to radio income well radio to me is just audio if you can hear it on your phone that to me is radio same thing it's if it's a podcast if it's a podcast on my radio show if it's one of the versions of podcasts that i do like that is radio if you're talking about like terrestrial linear it still does it because extremely well for some, but, you know, I think because there is a saturation of media and people want it on demand. It's like television. It's the same thing as network. I would compare it to

network television, right? I rarely watch network television unless there's something I need to hear live or watch live, a sporting event, an award show. So we treat the radio show like that. We hopefully have generated the idea that if you miss it live, well, you may miss something. But if you do miss it you can still catch it on podcast but i think it's such an in-demand culture as well so we're able to do both we're able to do the live radio show revenue wise we're one of the top billers in the company which is awesome and we've been able to maintain an upward trajectory but we're also diversifying at the same time because media has always and will always change in every direction that is unpredictable And so it's, we've been super digitally focused for like 15 years.

So once it moved here, we were already luckily sitting here waiting for it. But you can only be predictively correct so long. True. So that's kind of the place that we're in now. Like where do you invest your money, but more so your time? Because that's limited. That's more limited than money can be. You can make more money.

You cannot make more time. So, yeah, the money is still good for radio. The money is fine for podcasting, but growing. But the problem with podcasting is it's becoming so saturated. It's getting even harder to pop through now. Every day, there's 10 new podcasts from 10 new celebrities and 100 new podcasts from mid-celebrities and 500 from just experts that nobody's heard of. And so it's harder to have a voice now because there are so many voices.

That is so true. So it's find your people, ride with them, and grow organically. we've had a lot of podcast guests come on and talk about their infrastructure the industry I've never had anyone from radio come on in the podcast world we've heard people have big minimum guarantees percentage of revenues how does it work in radio do you get like a big minimum guarantee and then do you get a percentage of ad revenue or like how does payment and structure work in that space different for everybody I own part of my show okay because when I moved I left a show that I had built myself yeah so yeah I get a salary and then I also get revenue share but I also

own a podcast network. And every one of those shows are treated differently. Like if we really are anxious to sign somebody, we will give them a guarantee up front if they want it or they can own more of their IP. Everything's negotiable in any sort of medium at all. So there's not a right answer. I know my answer is probably different than most people, but podcast and radio. And I probably spend more time, you know, 60% of my time working on either my podcasts or the podcasts that are on my network. Then I do the broadcast show because the broadcast show is live. It's on and it's off. That's the beautiful thing about it where digital, you can always tinker with it. That can happen 24 hours a day. If you are a traveler here is a trading secret, whether you're running a business

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that's the theme of this show yeah and so we have sponsors that have been with us for years and years and years and they don't do it because we're best buddies that helps if there's a great relationship obviously and they know that they personally can reach out to me and but again if we weren't proving that we were worth the investment from them they wouldn't stay with us but i think that's a big part of it is having brands that we represent consistency consistently consistency is the biggest part of it and there's a thing that i won't do it's like i'll give you an example i've been with hunday for like four years and let's say Hyundai decided tomorrow

they don't want to work with me anymore, which I don't want to happen. And I don't think it'll happen, but I would not flop the next day to a different brand because that would make me look like I wasn't being honest with my listeners. Absolutely. If I'll just jump from ship to ship,

why would they trust any ship I was on? And that costs me money. Yeah. But I think macro it doesn't. I think it builds, and I think the currency is eyes and ears and trust of those eyes and ears that you're not just going to dick them around.

all the time for the sake of a dollar makes perfect sense i think one thing that's cool is listen to one podcast where you said that your crew your team they started working with you for free that crew and team i believe your co-hosts we were all broke it wasn't like they were volunteering their time we had no money okay we had no money i had no money the company would weren't paying anything but you know i'm 45 now but they've been with me 20 plus years that's what i'm saying that same crew that work yeah they weren't volunteering your time free they're still with you today and has their life change financially, like in a direction they never imagined

based on essentially volunteering their time? Because I think that's kind of a cool concept. Never imagined is a, I don't know. But yeah, I think none of them thought they would even be doing it because none of them wanted to be doing radio or podcast. So it's not that they didn't want to. It was that one was selling granite.

She was selling, Amy, my co-hosts for 20 years, was selling granite like rocks. Another one was working at Jason's Deli. And so it really wasn't the idea of, I really want to get into media and do, but it was, I need people here and they're not giving me any money. So will you come up? And then it was, how do we get them on part time? How do we get them on full time? Okay, we've proved our value as a show. How do we get them contracts? Well, if you don't sign them to a contract, I'm going to be pissed and you may lose me. It's been that constant

negotiation forever. But now, yeah, everybody does really well. We're super successful show and podcast. And so, yeah. Change is the only constant. You look at like social media, podcasting, radio, TV. everyone has a different perspective on where you should be putting your attention given the growth where do you think the areas of social media podcasting radio tv are moving like at the state of the union from bobby bones and your perspective of what the future looks like with those businesses it's hard to invest a whole lot into something you don't own it's like an influencer that that invests all their time into instagram and then if instagram shuts down you're screwed so that switch goes off you're done it's not that's exactly if ticot really shuts it

down. If they're like, China, no thank you, you're done. So I think in the most cop-out answer, but it's also the way that I've done my career is if you're not putting yourself in a lot of places, you're really nowhere because at any time they can pull that from you. And all value is IP ownership in this business. If you do not own your IP, it can be taken from you at any time. And if you don't have it, you have to like recreate it. It's why Taylor did her songs again. right i mean that that's like the simplest comparison she didn't own her music so she's like okay cool i'll just redo them again and then she own those versions so to me the answer is own your IP wherever it is but understand that if you have a big following on youtube or tic talk or instagram

or a podcast network that you work for and you don't own 51% of it you don't get to make the decisions if they choose otherwise so diversify just like money diversify as much as you can because at any point, it could chop one of the legs out. Last question I got with money as in respect to audio is, what is the best earnings year you ever had with audio? Yeah, right. I would never say that. Here's what my business manager says.

And I didn't know much about business managers. But when I had to pay like tour managers and had to pay percentages, she was like, never be fully authentic because you'll get sued all the time. If somebody, if you bump somebody and you hit the, and they get out and see it's you, they're grabbing their neck. And you're going to get sued 10 times more. more than you would have if you're a normal person. So, yeah, no chance.

Only for that reason, because I'm all for being transparent unless it gives somebody an advantage to take from what I'm building. And if, yeah, if I ran somebody, dude, they're going to hold two necks. They're going to hold their neck and then the car behind them. Well, it's one thing, as your wealth increases, like the, I'm not an insurance guy. I can't stand insurance. But as your wealth increases, like, the details of specific insurance necessary to protect from lawsuits is so pertinent for.

that exact reason. Even on property. Yeah. Like anybody that comes on umbrella cover, and this is the nerdiest thing, but I've had to learn it because of that. Because of that. Of course. All right. Fair answer. I love it. I respect it. Vice President, creative director of I heart country. What, like, what exactly does that?

I think they just put that in my contract. I didn't know if that was that was true. Yeah, that's not a real title. Yeah. I don't really do anything corporate. I just get on and make content, but I appreciate the company for giving me a title. Okay. You said Taylor, we see Taylor Swift's on the cover here, Rolling Stone. Of all the things that I asked about for people to ask me to ask you, Everyone was talking about the Taylor Swift interview.

People were talking about... Which one? I've done like seven. Some of them have gone viral. Yeah. And what happens is, and I've done this too, I've reposted those for engagement. Yeah. Because Taylor was awesome.

And, but the ones that they cut clips of it, I got sick once, and it was a joke. From her cookie, right? It really wasn't from her cookie, but it's never put into context. Like, you never see the full interview. You see a very small clip of that. But I like, and I also don't want to say anything good about it

because it creates such engagement for my social when people just come on because if they write hey you suck do you know what that does it puts it in other people's feeds like whatever let's say i do a video about this and someone's like oh i saw the video at taylor you suck in my comments under this video and that happens sometimes i don't delete them because any engagement in my feed lifts my videos for other people to see true so i've taylor was awesome there are four people that i've ever met in entertainment that have the ability to connect immediately without any previous relationship go Darth, Dolly, Reba, and Taylor.

When you say connect, when you met them, they instantly connected with you. Most magnetic people, and you're like, oh, you might be a psycho killer or the president. And you could go either way. And it's those four people. And it's the ability to feel like they care about you and you care about them without ever having met at all. And Taylor is the youngest I've ever seen do that. Would you've seen a lot of artists? You've got to meet them.

You see their work. Do you interview them? You prepare for them. Do you consider her a genius? Oh, yeah. I consider her a genius at, obviously at her art that we know is great, but I think the real art is putting great people around you. I think that's successful.

If you can do that, you will be hyper successful in any field. And I know a lot of her team. She has done the greatest job at curating people to make decisions for her because, again, we only have so much time. And she has hired the greatest people to be her voice and her eyes and do the things that she would do if she had the capacity to do everything. And I think real talent in any industry is delegating, but delegating to awesome people that you have picked to make decisions for you. And I think that's where her real genius is.

Interesting. And obviously a marketing genius too, but you sat across from her. And I'm sure through all your time, you get to talk to so many different people, when you're sitting across from live, you get to see instant reaction, like instant thought process. When you're talking to her and you're asking any of these questions and she's coming up with these responses, like do you see like genius just in the eye-to-eye conversation to conversation? live to live. I see somebody that's super quick. Yeah. I see somebody that is very prepared. Interesting. Which is part of the team. Or it's just her understanding in a very intelligent way. How can my presentation be a plus? She's cutting funny. Yeah. She chooses to use it sometimes. It's awesome. Yeah. So at her craft that we get to see, she's a genius. At the people that she hires, that we don't know the

capacity that they work for her, genius. And so those are the two ways. But yeah, I mean, there's a reason that she's the most famous person in the world. That doesn't happen by accident if you don't kill somebody. For sure. What would you, who would you say is the smartest person or most impressive person that you've interviewed, that you expected them to become someone like a Taylor Swift, but they have yet to pull through? And that way.

I can tell you who I've sat across from and they were like brilliant and maybe I didn't expect it. And it's unfair to say I didn't expect it. But it's a churn. I mean, I do so many interviews. Sure. Sometimes I meet people and they're like, hey, I don't remember the interview. Of course. Yeah. It's just the nature of, it's like working at Starbucks, remember every customer that comes through. Yeah. But like Clint Black, and he's like in 90s, he is the smartest, funniest guy. Reba, the smartest funniest woman. But like even Dolly, and Dolly's in her 70s, she is so quick.

And I always think that people that can be cutting and you still like them, like that's the ultimate skill. That's one like Taylor had, where they can just mess with you. And you still like them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the people that have been able to transcend from just being music stars to being icons, again, there's a genius to that. And a lot of it is understanding kind of the human part of it. And also having like the emotional intelligence to know when you can go at somebody and still be likable. Yeah, exactly.

I love it. All right. Worst or toughest interview over your career? Toughest interview. So I have had to understand now that because people aren't great once, even in a personal setting, that doesn't mean they're bad people. Because you'd meet somebody

and they'd be a real jerk and you're like, man, I do not like the person. I've been able to experience this enough times where sometimes people are sick, sometimes people are having a bad day. You've got to remember that people are humans. And I think that's happened a bunch where I go, yeah, I don't think I like them very much

but then time two, three, through seven are awesome. I also know that I'm in the advantageous place that most people are going to be on for me. Sure. So I'm going to get like the best version of people And it's not for me specifically, but it's because my platform is large. So I don't really have bad examples of people that were just dicks. Wendy Williams' husband tried to fight me once.

For what? So we were on the air and she was coming through town and I think she was doing some sort of a private event. And she came into the studio and I was interviewing her and I'd read a lot of her book like a couple years prior and she'd written a lot of stuff about her book. and they gave me no rules on the interview and I was asking her about the event and I was like I've always had this question you know about Tupac that you wrote about in your book

because I was a Tupac fan and I asked her the question and she looked at me and she said you'll never be me and I was like, huh? She said you'll try but you'll never be me and I thought well that's weird I said well I don't want to be you

I was literally asking and she left the studio and then her husband I think at the time they may be divorced now waited for me outside so I mean I run out the back door I don't want to get beat up.

That's a tough one. But who knows what she was going through that day? It was miserable. But it was a bad experience. Okay. I read something that said, the organization in your house is a dictation of the organization in your life.

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at bull and branch.com slash trading secrets. That's bullenbranch.com slash trading secrets to get 15% off, B-O-L-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash trading secrets. Exclusions apply, see sites for detail. I love the stories. I can't wait for another book. No more books. Hopefully we'll get one. No more. And I only have like 10 minutes left with you. So I got to ask of the books that you did write the two-time, two-time New York Times bestselling author, bare bones, fate until you don't find grind repeat of those books. Talk to me a little bit about it. And I did a children's book too. But like money-wise, monetization, brand, how much did those play into your success when you look at your career today? Overall, like macro, a decent amount. I think it gave

people more perspective as to who I was, especially the first one, which was bare bones. And the story about that book is I wanted to do a children's book at the very beginning. I did a kid's music record that did really well. Cracker Braille bought it. And so it was in Cracker Burles, and I thought, well, if I can do a music record for kids, I can write a book because books, that had to be easy. And so I went and I pitched the book everywhere. Nobody wanted it because I wasn't famous enough and the children's book market was oversaturated. And I had done four or five pitches. Last pitch I was at was Harper Collins.

And they didn't want the kids book. I was used to people saying no at that because I'd been through like six or seven noes already. And they said, but we'd be interested in your story like as writing like an adult book. had no interest in writing a book because I didn't think anybody would buy it and I was like I don't think that's for me and they're like well would you pitch to our team and just kind of tell them your story so I did I pitched to the team and they said we'd love for you to write that and I said I don't feel comfortable writing it because I don't feel confident in it and that I don't want to put out something I'm not proud of and then have to promote it and then it exists forever it's in perpetuity

that book and so I said what I feel comfortable doing is is, because I think it was 60,000 words they wanted. I said, I will write 30,000 words. And I'm going to write it in an essay form, and I'm going to give it to you. You pay me nothing. If you think then this is a book, I'll take the guarantee. I think the guarantee was like $60,000, the first book.

And they thought it was weird that I didn't want the money and wanted to do the work ahead of time. But also, I didn't want to get myself into something that I couldn't succeed at, because that wasn't my intention to write a book. And so I wrote it over the next month and a half or so, and they bought it immediately. And it was number one for four weeks.

That's four weeks. That's a big deal. It was a big deal, yeah. That's a big deal. It was so surprised. I don't really get nervous a bunch now because I've kind of bombed at everything. So I think for me the key is I've bounced back from worse. So I don't really get, the nerves don't exist as much because I've had crap happen and got out of it.

Got it. Yeah, interesting. About as far as like revenue streams from all the books combined, more or less than a million. Probably less. Probably a little less. less. I just got offered to write another book with a guarantee of half a million. And I didn't do it. Interesting. Because I don't feel like I have it. I don't feel like I can do a good job at it. And that's just a guarantee. That's a guarantee. That's in your pocket no matter what minus expenses.

I don't feel like I can do a good job at it right now. I don't have the capacity for it. So I did say no to that. Okay. All right. Two more questions I got for you. The last one's around the theme of personal life, but personal life intersecting with professional life. It's a real thing. I've read that you're, I know that you're married now. I have friends that are friends with your wife and stuff like So congratulations. I read that you met her, though, at Dancing with Stars. She was in this show. No.

She was watching the show. Kind of. So my PR person for Idol and Dancing with the Stars was from Oklahoma. Yeah. Her friend from Oklahoma came to help her out that night at Dancing with the Stars. I'd never been to Dancing with the Stars. And she was with her when I went to see my friend, who was my PR person. Gotcha.

Because my wife had graduated from in Oklahoma, went and did oil and gas, went back and got her master's and moved to L.A. to get her master's. Yeah. And so one of the only friends she had there was her friend from Oklahoma, who was my PR person. Gotcha. And so I met her with her. Yeah. And so, yeah, that was it.

And we didn't date for a while. Okay. Interesting. And then I went back out to California and I was like, hey, I'm back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like, cool. Game on. All right.

She didn't say game on. I said game on. You said game on. Yeah, she had never been to the show. She doesn't like public life. Yeah. Like, none doesn't like being on social media. Yeah.

Like, it's not that type of person. I've tried to get her to be. Yeah. I like, it would really help me if you'd be more public. Sure. She's just not the type of person like me that seeks validation through people that she doesn't know. Interesting. I mean, I think that's beautiful.

It's also we got to add it. I think it's a good balance. It drives me crazy sometimes, but it's a good balance of it. But when you see, we talked about Taylor, obviously, Taylor, Travis, taking over pop culture, and then you just think about the dating scene. You talked a little bit about you wanting her to be more in the spotlight. I'm getting a lot of questions. What is your take on just the idea of whether it's like Travis or Taylor at that?

that level to like just the personal life impacting the professional life for either the good or bad and how has it impacted your life in that realm? I think it was interesting at first with my wife because she wanted nothing to do with being public. Right. And so that was a bit frustrating. Now I respect it so much more because I understand why. And I think it's a good balance for me where I used to put everything out there and I depended so much on people going thumbs up or thumbs down, not to make me be fulfilled as a person, but to go, okay, is this going to be successful? So much of that now is not that. I think I'm actually like a well-rounded human being now, at least a little more well-rounded for somebody that has been completely broken their

whole life. Like, I never had a family. I have a family now with her and then her family. Like, I never had parents. So a lot of this has been introduced to me in a way of it felt very foreign. it felt very awkward like we had Christmas Eve at her parents' house we do it every year now but the first time we spent the night

there and did Christmas Eve I was like I don't this doesn't feel right I'm not used to being around people during the holidays I would be so it has given me an appreciation for just family in general

because I never had somebody that was there for me all the time I've never had that in any capacity and you know parents none I never told anybody I love them until my wife now

like not a single person that's why I respect what she's about and I have to respect what she wants and that she doesn't want to be public so you got it tough sometimes but you know that's it beautiful answer last one I got for you before you get a trading secret

I hear that you like to talk about mountain rush moors of different industries and places let's do it for the audio space who is on your mountain rushmore for the audio space my hero growing up was David Letterman because I saw an awkward guy from middle America that was in every way different, his sensibilities, his style, his look.

And I thought, if that guy can do it, it gives me hope to get out of here and do it. One of my best friends now is Charlemagne the God in New York, who's on the Breakfast Club. And, you know, he's from, he grew up like I grew up. He's hip-hop. I'm in the country space. But we trade contracts with each other. Wow. Because we don't want each other to get screwed over.

and there's really nobody else. We don't feel like we have peers, not in a bad way, but that are in radio and video and have all these elements. Like, it's hard to have a peer at this stage in media because everybody's career is so different. And we're very similar.

And so we trade contracts with each other. And we look at them and we're like, do this, don't do this. I got this. Make sure you ask for this. Like, that's my, when I got fined a million dollars from the FCC, he was the one guy that reached out and I was like, dude, that's hilarious.

when everybody else was like you maybe get fired he was like no no this is going to be awesome for you so charlemagne the god has been that dude for me you know when i was much younger i used to watch the i never wanted to be a weatherman but ned permy was like the guy was in litter rock and i was like i want to move to little rock and be where ned permy lives so i'd put ned permy the weatherman at channel seven and like somebody like Howard stern because he was able to push and he was able to also modify like a lot of his early career he did things that nobody else was doing if you agree or disagree with the content that is not the question but he was able to push do it different make a bunch of money for his company make a bunch of money for himself be this person and then

shift it like he's changed himself he also makes a hundred million dollars a year but he's now he's like one of the greatest interviewers ever so he has changed who he is and i think it's okay to change. I think there's so much tied to, well, you can't change your opinion on this. Well, if you have more information, why can you not change your opinion on something? Or how can you not mature? It's unfair to say people can't mature. So to see him break barriers and then change who he is. I feel like that is pretty inspirational that you're never too old or too successful to actually modify what you've been doing, even if it's made you successful. All right. There we go. Brilliantly said. It's been a great interview. It's really fascinating

learning all about you. But we got to wrap with the trading secret. I feel like you dropped a hundred of them in this episode. But it's a trading secret either live by. It could be in a professional sense, financial sense, personal sense, but you can't read from a textbook or learn from a TikTok tutorial only from your career and life track. So it's a trading secret with Bobby Bones. What can you leave us with? Everything that I do is pretty basic fundamentally. I think I wrote a book that's called fail until you don't. I think there is, again, it's easy to say, go ahead and go fail. It sucks to fail. It's like when we're talking about people that dislike you, it sucks. It has to happen. It doesn't mean that you like it. It doesn't mean it's any easier. It sucks. If you're not doing

some things that are a bit cringy, you're not trying. So you have to put yourself out there in a way that people look at you and go like, what are you doing? It's okay. It's okay. People don't remember your faults and your misses. They only remember really your successes because they're so focused on themselves. I think it's somebody worried about having a talking publicly and like I'm so nervous about it and they screw up. Nobody remembers that one hour later. Not a single time do you ever remember somebody screwing up? No. And they've been so nervous about it for a month. So people really aren't paying attention to what you suck at. So suck away. Yeah. Don't be afraid to bomb out because nobody's paying attention to you because everybody's so focused on themselves

and then also don't run up credit card debt. Don't write up credit card. I like it. Those are two. Those are, have you ever run up credit card debt? I've never had debt. I've never had debt. No debt, ever.

All right. All right. So you practice what you preach. I think that's pretty cool. And what's interesting now, especially these days, those moments that we're so nervous of, if someone does screw up while they're giving a speech, and someone captures it.

It's actually that vulnerability, creates relatability, creates empowerment. That video will probably go viral and get them more attention than if they nailed the speech perfectly because who loves that. And you have to be okay with the attention. Because to get great attention, there's also going to be some negative nobody just gets great yeah i think that i always like to say what's my trading secret that i learned i think my trading secret that i learned from you is from when

it comes to the trajectory of success to achieve outlying success you have to authentically step into who you are at such a strong level 10 toes down and then you have to even dial that up you have to magnify that and when you do that you are going to experience a lot of noise a lot of criticism a lot of bullshit. And if you can't withstand that criticism, you will never find that success because it's your authentic self, even magnified, which drives people to care to listen to build community. And it's so, so, so much harder done and so much easier to say and talk about doing it. Because when you're feeling that, you're reading those comments, you're seeing that stuff, that could hurt you. But when you know that hurt or whatever that is is actually stepping into

who you are and driving your success, who cares. Yeah, it's also successful people don't criticize they're too sure they're too they're too they're too busy down yeah nope everybody's punching down the criticisms coming from people who for whatever reason feel like they need to punch at something yeah in order to have a sense of worth exactly and as long as you can readjust yourself it still sucks yeah but as long as you can have against a micro attitude about it instead a micro macro instead of micro that is what helps me get through sometimes when I'm very questioning everything I'm doing I love it it it's good stuff all right bobby bones where can everyone find everything you have going on anywhere please I was going to say this

this list might take us another hour. Find it anywhere. I just, Mr. Bobby Bones on everything. Yeah, Mr. Bobby Bones on everything, TV show, the books, all are the radio stuff. We'll talk all about in the recap. We'll give you the laundry list of where to find the books and everything else. We appreciate you being on sharing secrets. Thanks so much for coming on. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Awesome. Ding, ding, ding! We are closing in on the episode with Bobby Bones. I had to bring my big radio voice here because that is, I can't even say it right, That is a radio tycoon, but you know what?

I shouldn't be bringing a voice. I should just be bringing myself because that is one thing we learned from Bobby Bones. David, I know a guy like you has a ton of opinions on this episode. It was an open one. There was a lot of opinions. There was a lot of transparency. We heard Bobby Bones' story from the ground up to today. What did you think?

I mean, I think that that was one of the most intense episodes that I've listened to. I have notes upon notes because I felt like it was I was in a classroom with a professor where it's like, this isn't one I can sluff off in. I got to be dialed in. Like I got to be on my toes, pen to paper, can't miss a thing. I thought that it was just intense is what I thought. And I thought that obviously by the end of it, I thought it was really, really good. And that's really my main takeaway was just an overall like this one just felt a little different.

I mean, it's really interesting to hear the roots of, of like, you know, his dad leaving, his mom dying of drug addiction, just the idea of like I really never understood the concept of family. I never knew what it meant to tell someone I love them. I and his innovativeness. And I like his kind of like his risk profile. Like he's willing to take on so much risk because all he knows is ground level. So yeah, all else create my own. national syndicated radio show. I'll put in 60K, 30K, see what I can do. I'll buy a billboard for 12K when I have no money and tell the world to hate me. Like, I mean, just like wild moves. I'll take a TV show deal where I know I'm going to lose money because the opportunity is so big and then get a raise that was 20 over 20 times the next season. Obviously, I can't stop thinking about what Ryan Seacrest makes now. But I just love, you know, the numbers behind the radio show. I mean, it was packed.

It was one of my favorite interviews I've ever done because he's a great speaker. He's an intellect. He's smart. And his willingness to just be honest and real with no sugar coating. Man, that was refreshing. Yeah, you did a great job, too, by the way. And I could tell that he was feeling that too in the episode. And I think, you know, another hour-long episode,

but someone who was captivated and interested the whole time, it's funny when we don't compare notes or really prepare for these because we want to get each other's genuine reaction. And this was the same genuine reaction as his upbringing and the way that he is. I truly think, you know, you could listen to these and try and take as many notes and really try and take as many takeaways as possible. I don't think someone can be successful in the way Bobby Bones is successful with the different upbringing. Like, I just don't.

Like, I just think it shaped him so much to a level where he said his superpower is that I really don't stop, that when you grow up poor, it's easy to be poor. And I just like kept thinking of his stories and how he got there. And I'm like, man, I just, even if I was put in that situation or even if I had the same kind of thought process towards business with, like you were saying, the billboards and stuff, I just don't think that I could ever, you know, relate to what he had to do or what his mindset was. to really push through that because I don't have the same experience to fall back on that drives me the way that he did. And it just really hit me hard. And I thought that that was like, his upbringing was so evident throughout the episode. It really kind of blew me away. Yeah. I mean, perfectly said, like it's, I think we all are, right? Like all of us are a derivative of day one. And that carries with us in the way we spend, the way we save, the way we earn, the way we act, the way we behave.

And we could either use those, you know, safety nets and superpowers that we're all created with to our advantage to put us in another massive, you know, position, right? Or they can deteriorate us, right? I mean, I know for me, like when I look at my upbringing and my childhood, one thing I give too much power to is if people like me or not, right? That's not a good thing. That's not, but that's a safety net. when people like me, I feel safe, and that's from my childhood. But I think, like, I just want to give one spin on that. If I, I can, I can look at that a lot of ways, or I can say, okay, I know an areas of my life where I really have to manage that, but there's also areas of life that actually

becomes pretty useful for, like, let's call it networking or going into groups of people you've never met and being able to connect with them. Like, there are different superpowers that some of your weaknesses provide you. 100%. And it's so true. And that's why I think this one I was I watched the episode instead of listened to it. So I watched it. And I could see that kind of between two of you like you are looking at two people with totally different uproings, but have been successful in some of what the same area in podcasting and media and seeing you two kind of ying and yang off each other really just

was really amazing. And like you said, you know, that's kind of your safety net. It's people liking you. And I don't think in 250 plus episodes, we've seen someone lean. into the negative as much as he did, whether it be, you know, well, if these people hate me and they're saying this, what are the people who love me think? Or, um, you know, if there isn't, uh, if there isn't negative, there isn't positive. You can't get great attention without negative attention. I just, I just, he leaned into that. I mean, it was his whole business model

essentially for a long time from like you mentioned, the billboards to dancing with the stars. And it's almost in a weird way. His safety net is. that is making sure that he's getting checks and balances through negative energy so he, you know, can lean into the other side of it where he knows he has supporters, which keeps those supporters so much loyal to him and his successes and, you know, just love someone with that upbringing who's willing to share how much they make in these things and these areas, these ventures. And again, the biggest theme, he said it more and more and more, and you said it too, the biggest theme was providing value gets you paid more, period. And I just love how at the

end of that, that's what he always did. He provided value, provided value, and that's where he is today. And you know what? There's some intersection, David, behind our episode we did with the new Bachelorette announcement. When we talked about being in the board room, what were they thinking? I want to be in the room where it happens. And thinking about like, sorry, I just went to Hamilton. But that's like, I think that's what Taylor, Frankie Paul has done better than anyone in social media, maybe in the last year, is using negativity or negative experience. sorry, using negative experiences to create attention, which then can catapult other messaging in her life. And I think, like, a lot of the things that he's saying have led to his success

and are some of the thoughts that, like, executive producers on these shows and these places who are making decisions also think through. And I also, tell me if you agree or disagree with this. I think his strategy and his idea of, like, let's just bring attention to what we're doing no matter what the attention is good or bad. I think that has been successful for when he did it and it was so much harder to do when he did it. But now it feels like that strategy, one that he did decades ago,

is like even more mainstream now. Like, I feel like that's the thing now. Like, bring back, right? I couldn't agree with you more. And as you were describing that, I was going to say to you that, that's, you just explained 2025.

Like, you just explained, the year that we're living in 2025. I mean, that's, that's what it is. Anything that is popular right now is bashes. It's like bashed. It involves, well, it usually involves a negative and a positive side. Love Island, the biggest, streamed, most streamed reality TV show of all time. You have people that love Huda.

You have people that hate Huda. You have people that love Aeson Shelly. They have people that can't stand Aeson Shelly. You have people who, you know, they got the negative side with, Sierra when she got kicked off the show you got Nick and Alandria do they love each other did they not like each other is it fake is it real it all stirs the pot

and gets people talking and gets views and then you nail you nailed it obviously with the Frankie Taylor Paul analogy who's someone who's you know and leaning into a quote from Bobby Bones here he said in his trading secret keep failing until you don't but he said everyone is so focused on themselves they're not

actually worried about your faults or failures so it's one of those things where the people that are authentically themselves and aren't afraid to let the negative in be part of their story online instead of running away from it, trying to hide from it and or fix it to prove to people for their approval that they're this version they want them to be, they lean into it, they talk to it, they kind of make it part of their story and they have this, probably the hardest thing easier said than done is to not care about

what people think, and the people that have been able to do that are the biggest, I don't even want to say stars, but the biggest people that are talked about in today's society. And I think it's so much, oh man, I think it's so much easier said than done. It's so much easier said than done. And to be honest, like, I don't want, like, and I think this for you too, like, it's easier said than done. And I don't think you want to. Like, I don't think that's something that everyone needs to want to do. Like, do Jason Tardick lean into the negativity of what people view about him when it truly does make him a little uncomfortable just to get a little more talked about, a little more

famous, a few more followers, a little more like clickable? Like, that's okay if you don't want to do that, right? Like, but if we're sitting here saying, well, the recipe for success, if you want to be the biggest, most mainstream thing is you got to lean into the negativity, that's a choice, right? That's a choice. and I don't think it fulfills you enough to want to lead into it for the reward that you may get out of it. Well, especially like you think about if I were to lean into that, that is definitely drifting away

from my authentic self unless what I'm leaning into is something that's authentic, it's like truly authentic to me. And the more, I guess, financially free I become, the less I want to create chaos in my life. You know, like, I haven't, I talked a little bit about it on my trading secret in the episode with you and Kelly, but like, I haven't felt this state of calm and peace in my life that I feel now. And I can't tell you the last time. And so I think when you, you, it takes a true warrior to be able to do what he did. Think about that. You're putting up billboards on the new growing city in the country that Bobby Bones needs to go away.

you're paying for it your managers and teams are legally trying to get it down they don't know that you're doing it and you're doing it for the betterment of the show and it returned millions of dollars that's a warrior like you can hate them you can love them that's a warrior and i think about you know this is happening i think we're starting to see this a lot interestingly enough you know christen caballery just announced that her podcast is is no longer for now right and there's a lot of reasons why she announced it. And she's a great podcaster. And her podcast for years was one of the top podcasts out there. But one of the problems that I think, and I'm analyzing this, I haven't heard anything. I don't know anything. I'm just analyzing. When your podcast is going to be built

on showcasing so much of your personal life. And then the world gets to build an opinion on it and not stop nagging you for it, it takes a different breed to be able to handle that and keep doing it year, year, year, year, year. And I can see, I don't know why she stopped her podcast. She obviously talked about it a little bit. But to me, it feels like some part of that had to touch some of the negativity that comes with extreme vulnerability and still willing to put some of that negative clickbait out there knowing it's going to be perceived wrong but knowing that it's going to create noise

that carries a weight it does and which is which is exactly why i said at the start his upbringing is i don't think someone can be successful in the way he was successful without and during that upbringing, to feel you, to drive you, to make you be able to live in that feeling because it is just so normal. Whether it be right or wrong, it's so normal. And if you were, what you were saying about Kristen Cavalry is true, right?

It's an opinion and it's a thought, but if it is true, it would make sense because her upbringing and her normal is not surrounded around negativity and leaning into that aspect of her life. right so that's why i go back to that with how i started i was just in all of every story everything he was talking about every situation i was like man this is inspiring this is awesome but i don't know if anyone myself definitely myself i don't know if many people can really do what he did because we haven't experienced the things that he experienced that makes him be able to think that

you know feel normal through this but really inspiring really intense like i said a million pages of notes. It was incredible. I thought you guys did a great job. Really did. We have had a lot of people on this podcast, almost everyone who's achieved some form of outlying success and whatever it is that they've done or wherever they've entered or activities and projects they've taken on. And we have in the recap said often over and over again, he or she doesn't care what they think. He or she doesn't care what they say. He or she doesn't care if people hate them. he or she doesn't care if people love them he or she just cares they watch and they listen and i think that's an example of bobby bones and that's why he has achieved massive massive professional and

financial success and what now sounds like so much personal happiness so bobby bones if you're with us in the recap thank you so much for being on this episode i certainly learned a lot david you got anything before we wrap no i think we're in a nice little group figure out i've been a role these last few I've felt like these are some of the best episodes we've had in a long time. And it's just nice to know that we're, you know, staying true to the pod. And I hope everyone out there is listening and loving it. And that's all I got for today. I love it.

And David, on the theme of keeping up with good episodes, one of the best we've ever had is with Chris Voss, the former head of FBI negotiation. And we have him back in the seat. so that episode will be coming out soon. We have plenty of unbelievable guests in the tank. And David, I haven't told you this yet. Oh, okay. And I'm going to just tease it with this. You can't ask another follow-up question.

But your favorite show, there might be a connection to microphones and your favorite show coming up soon. I'll tease you with that. And it doesn't have to do with a guest. It has to do with a new project. We'll see. Who knows? More to come. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. But all exciting stuff here at Trading Secrets. Please give us five stars.

Can't tell you how much that helps us. Hit follow on Apple. Hit follow on Spotify. Make sure to check us out on Trading Secrets podcast on Instagram. And David, thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets, one you can afford to miss. Making that money, money, pay on me. Making that money, living that dream.