Trading Secrets - 256. Kaitlan Collins: CNN’s Chief White House correspondent and anchor dives into the fast-paced world of political reporting, importance of preparedness, and working closely with multiple administrations

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

This week, Jason is joined by one of the most recognizable and respected journalists in America, Kaitlan Collins! Kaitlan is the anchor of The Source on CNN and CNN’s Chief White House correspondent, where she brings clarity and accountability to the story shaping our world. As a Chief White House correspondent, she has covered both Trump and Biden and now Trump again and is making history as the youngest ever to hold that role at the network. She has reported from the halls of the White House to international summits, pressing world leaders about presidents alike with sharp, fearless questions. Kaitlan’s rise from local Alabama roots is a story of ambition, resilience, and navigating the business of media at the highest level.   Kaitlan Collins takes us inside the fast-paced world of political reporting, revealing what it’s really like to cover the White House across multiple administrations. She shares how she broke into politics, the differences between presidencies, and what it means to have a direct line to the president. Kaitlan opens up about working at a conservative-leaning outlet early in her career, how that unexpected path led her to CNN, and the lessons she’s learned about preparation, composure, and credibility in the chaos of live news. She reveals how correspondents vet information in real time, who taught her how to negotiate, the average length of a correspondent contract, and what her biggest “Grammy moment” has been on air. From question regret to staying objective, managing pressure in the briefing room, and protecting press access through every administration — Kaitlan gets candid about the realities, risks, and rewards of being one of the most trusted voices in political journalism. Kaitlan reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss! Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: John Gurney Guest: Kaitlan Collins Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Trading Secrets Steals & Deals! Indeed: There's no need to wait any longer-speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. For a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to get your jobs more visibility head to Indeed.com/SECRETS  Rula: Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit Rula.com/tradingsecrets to get started. Function Health: Function is a near-360 view to see what's happening in your body, and my first 1000 listeners get a $100 credit toward their membership. Visit www.functionhealth.com/TRADINGSECRETS  or use gift code TRADINGSECRETS100 at sign-up to own your health. Nutrafol: See thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in just 3-6 months with Nutrafol. For $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping, go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code TRADINGSECRETS.

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by one of the most recognizable and respected journalists in America, Caitlin Collins. Caitlin is the anchor of the source on CNN and CNN's chief White House correspondent, where she brings Claire and accountability to the story shaping our world. As a chief White House correspondent, she has covered both Trump and Biden and now Trump again, and is making history is the youngest ever to hold that role at the network. She has reported from the halls of the White House to international summits,

pressing world leaders and presidents alike with sharp, fearless questions. Caitlin's rise from local Alabama roots is a story of ambition, resilience in navigating the business of media at the highest level. Today, we will explore the financial realities of journalism, the business of a major news network behind the scenes of the biggest moments and how Caitlin has built a personal brand and one of the most competitive industries in the world. Caitlin, we've been trying for months to get job trading secrets. You are finally here, and it is so nice to meet you.

And it's great to be here. I'm a big viewer. I love the podcast. Love that. And yeah, I know. Our schedule is crazy. It's nice to be here. So hopefully no, like, major crises break out.

I mean, there's a million things for me to get into. Now I'm going off the cuff. You got two phones there? What's the situation? How's that work? Yeah, I've had two phones for like 10 years now. So it's totally normal to me. Like, I just think everyone has two phones.

So one's work. One's personal? Technically, one is work and one is personal. But they're so intermixed at this point that it's like people will call me from either or they're like it's actually really effective as a reporter to have two numbers. Okay. Because if someone thinks you're calling them on one number and they're dodging you, you can just call them on the other.

And always from my Alabama number, they pick up, like, immediately. Yeah. Because they're like, who's calling me from Alabama? For sure. Surprise. It's me. Gotcha. You're playing the game of cards.

You got tea. You got coffee. Two phones. We're talking about it before this. I want to get into it now. What is, like, your day-to-day schedule look like? When does it start? When does it end?

Where do you actually have a home? Do you have a home? You just live on a plane? What is the day-to-day look? I live out of a suitcase, basically. Yeah, right? Honestly, every day depends on, like, the president. I don't really have a set schedule every single day.

Like, I'll cancel. million lunches or things. I'm like the worst friend to have because I'm always canceling, but always rescheduling. Every night, the White House schedule comes out like 10 p.m. And that's usually what I'm getting off air from the show. So you'll kind of have an idea, like, is he getting an intelligence briefing the next day? Is he meeting with a world leader? Is there a press briefing? And that really dictates my schedule mostly during the week. Because if he's doing stuff, you know, it's important. You've got to be up and be ready at the White White House. And so, you know, it kind of just depends on really what he's doing.

I'm so interested in the White House logistics. We'll get into kind of the differences behind the scenes of what you can share regarding that. But just off the cuff, you said you get that briefing or schedule roughly around 10 p.m. How does that compare into the schedule that you got during the Biden administration? Maybe they were a little earlier, but pretty similar, especially in terms of, is there a press briefing tomorrow? Like, what's the president doing? It's different because Trump is such an accessible president that, like, if he's just swearing in the ambassador to Greece, like typically that wouldn't be a newsworthy event if President Biden or any typical

president was probably doing it. But Trump's moments, anytime the camera's around and reporters are around, it can turn into a press conference. And so you never go into the Oval thinking, oh, this is going to be a quick, we call them sprays. It's where you go in, basically a photo op and then you leave. Because Trump will swear someone in and then he'll turn to you and say, you know, any questions. And he'll take maybe questions for 45 minutes. And so you You have to like, I always keep a running list of questions on my phone because you never know when you're going to run into him or when he's going to start taking questions. And so you can't just have one or two. Like you have to have like 10 ready to go.

Because you said the word typical president, right? Not your typical president. Typical president was swearing in someone from Greece. Like we would know. Is that because of predictability? Here. Well, so Trump is my first president that I've recovered. And I covered Biden as well.

And so I can compare it to him. But even with President Obama, you know, there are these moments in the Oval Office that. everyone has come to know because you see them on TV so often. Right. But when you speak to reporters who covered President Obama, he almost never responded to shouted questions. He just, it wasn't his thing. He didn't, you know, he would have his moments with world leaders.

And then you would leave the Oval. Trump kind of upended that when he came into the White House. And sometimes presidents are press averse. Trump embraced the media. I mean, he did it for decades as like this New York mogul. Sure. And so he just had a different approach to the press and always has, you know, long before taking office.

Those politicians are not very press savvy. It kind of depends on who it is. I think Trump always understood the value of a camera and a microphone. That kind of thinks, like, when you say that, I go immediately to reality TV days. Very tough to compare the two. But he was a reality star. Not really, actually. Right?

Actually, right. So you will see when the crew's coming in. You'll know the cameras. You'll know the angles. And you'll also get to see what players in the game are working them the best. The people that like know when to be on, say the right things, get their little bite. in really efficiently. From a political standpoint, going into politicians, do you see differences in how they're working behind the scenes from a production standpoint? And who does it best?

Yeah, well, you know, this is actually how I started covering Trump. I wasn't really a political reporter before Trump. I mean, I'd covered that race. But it was when Trump became president that, you know, no one was expecting his win, even the Trump people. I was at Trump Tower the day of the election. And we were speaking to some of the campaign staff. And their kind of reaction back in 2016 was, you know, wild ride, can't believe it's over. Yeah. They definitely thought that they were packing up and going home. So that night, you know, shocked a lot of America and the world.

It also shocked the Trump campaign team who did not think they were on this glide path to victory, just given so much had happened. Right. And my boss at the time was like, well, I had covered like celebrities in pop culture. And they were like, well, celebrities now the president. So just go cover it. And I had no idea what I was doing when I walked into the White House on day one. And I truly just figured it out as I went along. And so, you know, covering Trump, you even saw in his first term, certainly, and it's very obvious now, how he thinks about the production value.

When he hosted a cabinet meeting before, I'll never forget, it's this huge room and it's got all these windows alongside one wall. And the curtains are typically open because it's not thought to be, you know, how can we shoot this? What's the lighting? Yeah. Trump had them, like, put up these black boards over the windows. So when the reporters came in, the lighting would look nice in the room. Wow. Like, he, that's how his brain is thinking.

And you'll, anytime he hosts an event, there's always lights and everything. It's, he isn't very much a TV mind still. And do you find that that's similar or very different than other politicians that you've interviewed and been able to work? Very different. Okay. Very, very different. I mean, I don't know any other politician with, with the exception of President Zelensky.

Yeah. And obviously, he's at war, so it's not really top of mind for him. That is like a TV, you know, kind of celebrity that in recent memory, obviously there's Ronald Reagan and others who had their moments. But Trump is very reality TV-brained as well. Right. Exactly. It's so fascinating. Now, switch that perspective to the journalist, the correspondence. When you're in the room with them, do you see any one of your peers that does that exceptionally well? Works the cameras well, pre-production, thinking about what they're doing, that like maybe either you look up to or you've emulated? Yeah, a lot of reporters. The press corps at the White House is actually incredibly collegial.

and I have so many friends there. I love being back covering the White House because you have a real camaraderie. If you're a Prescott on Capitol Hill are covering a candidate on the road, you just form this bond because a lot of covering politics is not glamorous all the time.

Like the White House, even, it's not champagne and caviar. It's a lot of waiting around, you know, you're out in the heat, you're in the cold, you're just kind of waiting for something to happen. And then it happens really quickly. Sure.

And so you just have to always be prepared. And you just form bonds doing that and covering so many things. And so I have a lot of respect for my colleagues in the press corps. I learn a lot from them. I learned a lot and still do. And it's different. You know, there's some reporters who are TV reporters who obviously, they know where the cameras are. They understand, like, you know, making sure your microphone is right or that you're capturing the audio of something.

A print reporter may not think of that. They just want the quote that they can put in their story in the post or the New York Times. So you think of the medium that you're, you know, working for if you're radio, things like that. So, yeah, I think that they're mindful of it. But I think that's more for the coverage perspective because they want to make sure if there's a really great quote, you know, like you want it on camera. Yeah. We were just at the Pentagon on 9-11. And I was in the press corps, which means it's like a small amount of people that are traveling with him, the press pool.

Trump was not supposed to speak to the media, wasn't scheduled to do so. And then at the end, we were standing right by. the door and the beast, which is the presidential car, is right there. And outwalks the president with Melania. And he sees us standing there. And the Charlie Kirk assassination had just happened. And there was no camera with me. I didn't have a mic on anything. But I just started recording on my phone because he was coming to speak to us. And I didn't want to only have the quote. You know, you want to be able to the video to show on the air. You're wearing every single one of those hats. That's a perfect example, too, of having those questions prepared before you have to go.

because you just have to expect the unexpected. I want to go back to the two phones and then getting a hold of Trump and then using the different numbers. I saw the Stephen Colbert interview you did, right? The story, if you haven't seen it, we'll show it on social media. It's unbelievable. But you're in, if you find out via text, President Biden puts out a text that he will not be running for re-election.

That's how you find out. You're on your way to, I think, the studio. You get the news. You got to go back to get a blazer. And in this interview, which took me by surprise, you said in the backseat, you called Trump at this point. So you called him directly. He picked up. Give us a little behind the scenes. How's that work? When you are trying to patch into, you know, one of the most important leaders in the country or potentially soon to be or someone with such influence that the world is

trying to reach out to. How are you connecting with that? Do you have a direct line? Do you have to patch through? What does that look like? I just called his cell phone. I mean, to my point about does he have your number saved? I don't know if he has it saved because he always comments on my area code when I call because it's an Alabama area code. He knows I have his number, though. And so, you know, obviously covering him, Trump often speaks best when he speaks for himself. You know, I think his spokespeople have learned that, you know, just to let him do the talking. And when he was out of office, you know, in that period from his first term and his second term,

you know, indictments were happening, all these investigations around him, you know, he had a big legal team, but his staff was kind of always changing. Anyway, so I would just call him directly, you know, on. I didn't make a habit out of it, but if there's something huge happening, like the day of the Mar-a-Lago raid, when the FBI showed up and executed a search warrant over the classified documents, we had heard it was happening. Our people on the ground in Florida were trying to get in touch with law enforcement sources. And it was kind of one of those moments where I was like, we will be best served if I just call him directly and ask if this is true. And it was true. And he sent me the statement immediately confirming it.

And then it just kind of was off to the races from there. And then obviously another seminal moment was when President Biden dropped out because that was his opponent. And so the big question was, who is he going to be facing? I mean, that was, it was a really crazy moment for the Trump campaign when Biden dropped out because they did not know they had made this game plan to run against this one guy. It's like if you're playing in the Super Bowl, obviously with a lot longer lead up, you're planning for this one team and then say the other team gets swapped out at the last moment or, you know, the quarterback changes. And so it's just it totally upended it. And so I called him. But, you know, in a breaking news moment, and I was thinking so quickly and trying to get to the studio quickly, you know, I had just put him on speakerphone.

And I was in an Uber and this poor Uber driver. Like, because his voice is so distinct. Of course. Like, I mean, I think if you called any president, it would be the same effect. And he was just kind of like looking back at me. Like, he was processing it in real time. But I was just trying to write down the quote. That's the benefit of having two phones.

Calls on one. You can write down and email the quote on the other. because it was Trump's first reaction to Biden dropping out of the race. Obviously, we got to see your quote in his thoughts, but from like your vantage point with like his energy and tone when he picked up, was he surprised?

Yeah, and I think he was kind of angry. I don't think he was totally surprised because it was kind of, you could see it coming. I mean, Biden took a while to drop out after CNN hosted that debate where it was like this disastrous performance. It was a few weeks before Biden was actually convinced to drop out of the race.

And we were at the Republican convention and then Biden got COVID. and he was at home and he had been sick. And so we'd been watching this moment because, I don't know, you know, when you're home sick, you're kind of like evaluating all of your life choices and what you're doing. It's so rare in this world where you have a moment where you're just doing nothing and you're stuck, kind of. And, you know, that was kind of the position the president was then.

He was isolated. He was in his Delaware home. And that was when he called up some of his closest AIDS and he decided to exit the race. And so I do think Trump was surprised, but not totally caught off guard. and I think he was he was a bit angry about it because obviously that was when they all just kind of formed around Kamala Harris there was no primary

I mean there was no precedent really right this it had happened only once before and nothing like this and so yeah it was just a crazy moment in a year of them and now we're seeing obviously she depicts a lot of that in her book that's out and it was unprecedented

and I can't imagine it was like covering it when I think about where I was a year ago there is no way I could have had the growth and mental stability I do today without therapy. If you think about giving therapy a shot, I'd highly suggest you consider Rula, especially when it comes to dollar and cents, which is what we talk about here on trading secrets.

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After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's rula.com slash training secrets. You deserve mental health care that works for you, not against your budget. But let's do this. We've seen all your success. You've done it at such a young age. Let's go back to the derivative of it.

So 2017, you go to CNN. Before CNN, you're at the daily caller. When you left the Daily Caller to go to CNN, two totally different networks with two, what most media research biases would say, different biases, what sparked that decision? And did you consider other networks before CNN? Yeah. So that was when it started covering the Wiles for the Daily Caller. Like I didn't even know how to go to the press briefings and like, we didn't have a seat in the briefings. I would have to go hours before Sean Spicer would come out and just basically perch myself there.

grow back. And I would just sit there and work on my questions. Yeah, it was when they were like musty television. And because of those briefings, I was invited to go on CNN. Right. And I had kind of thought that maybe I wouldn't be treated fairly because I worked at a conservative outlet. I didn't know what to expect. And I also had no experience in television. And I went on CNN and they were completely fair to me. And they just asked, you know, what's your reporting? Like what's happening inside the White House? And they treated me just very straightforwardly. And I really appreciated it. And so, a few months went by, I think, and I had the opportunity. I met the president of the network at the time, Jeff Zucker. And I introduced myself to him. I said, hey, I just wanted to say thanks for letting me come on. Like, you guys treated me so fairly and with such professionalism. And I just, I really appreciated that. Because I'd kind of, I don't know, I just had these preconceived notions. And I did not, I was not angling for a job. I had never worked in television. I didn't want to work in television. And a few months after, a few weeks after that, I got hired at CNN. And, and I was not, and I was not, and I was not And it was kind of a moment where I'd interviewed it a few other places, but CNN felt right. And they were putting me on the White House team. And they wanted my experience, having worked at a conservative-leaning outlet. And also being from the South, I think, I really understood Trump voters because I'm related to a lot of them. And so whenever people say that CNN's biased or whatever the criticism is sometimes, I'm like, well, they hired me from the Daily Caller. And they hired me to be a reporter, not to be any kind of political.

or opinionated person, just a White House reporter. And it was the opportunity of a lifetime. And it's been an amazing eight years. That's fascinating. In all different industries, there's different networks or companies, and there's different perceptions that people in the industry where they'll know, like, the trading secrets, some pay better, some better benefits. The list goes on.

Is there any of that in your industry? Is it known that certain networks will pay better or have better benefits or that will provide better trajectory or anything like that? or is it a free for all? I think it kind of depends on the person themselves because you're not guaranteed success anywhere you go. Only if you work hard, I think, and you build good relationships and you try. I think that is the only chance you have it being successful no matter what job you're in. And I've always applied myself if I was, you know, I was a car girl in college at a golf course in my hometown. Like I've had some crazy, you know, random jobs before this. But I always

tried really hard at them because that's just my mindset. But what I'll say at CNN, that is amazing. And if you read CNN's history, it's like fascinating because we weren't taken seriously when CNN was first started by Ted Turner. Everyone thought he was crazy, like 24-hour news. And then we started covering things and putting resources and the Gulf War happened. And, you know, CNN's reputation changed. And it became like the go-to place that people went to during breaking news. And I think it provides a really vital resource. But what I'll say, I was blown away by at CNN when I was 25 years old and starting. the resources. Just walking around the newsroom, I mean, anyone you talk to is someone who has

covered foreign policy for decades or they know the Justice Department better than anyone. And so I built a wealth of knowledge just, you know, talking to my colleagues who had covered so many things and have the best stories. Wolf Blitzer, like, was one of the first anchors to take me out to dinner. And he told me these amazing stories about covering the Clinton White House and what it was like, and now he's one of my best friends at CNN. And it just, it's things like that that I think it's the wealth of the relationships that has been the best for me, which is why I love it and have been there for so long. It makes perfect sense. The resources can like drive so much of that decision making. We obviously talk money on this podcast a lot. So I got at least ask,

see what you can give me. 2017 to 2025, your value has increased significantly. Your roles have changed a lot. How do you negotiate year to year? How do you understand what your value is in such a kind of obscure industry where there's only one of one. And what do contracts look like? Are they on an annual basis, bi-annual basis? Give us what you can. Yeah. For TV, generally contracts are like three to four years for most people. It kind of depends on what job you're doing. Obviously, television is not just the people who are on camera. We have producers and photojournalists and tech ops and people who are, you know, the floor crews. I mean, there is so much that goes into it. And what happens on camera would not happen without the people behind the

camera. And they're just as good as reporters as the rest of us. So I think it depends on what you're doing. But if you're on TV and you're a correspondent, it's generally a three to four year contract. And so, you know, sometimes you get to the end of the contract and then renegotiate it. Sometimes with mine, you know, I've gotten different jobs while I'm in the middle of a contract, still at CNN, but just different roles, whether that's, you know, moving from being a correspondent to an anchor or whatnot or now, you know, I went from being. correspondent to anchor, to now I'm anchor and correspondent. So it's like double jobs. And it's just kind of, it depends on really, it's so like individualized. But generally,

that's what it is. But as far as negotiating, I learned how to negotiate at my first job at the daily caller. Yeah. And we had this business manager, like this office manager. And I'll never forget, I was making like zero dollars. And I told her I was going to go ask our boss for a raise. And she knew him really well. And she gave me. Is this while you're at CNN, you said? Daily caller. I was like 22, maybe 23. How much are you making? When I first started, I made $25,000 a year and got commission based on like clicks. Interesting. That's kind of, that's fascinating. It was so stressful because if you took like three days off and you didn't write any stories, you didn't get paid.

But honestly, I wouldn't trade it for anything because I think living like that is really good. Like just when you're in the real world. This is why I always tell people who are graduating college, I'm like, just take any job. It doesn't matter. It doesn't need to be your dream job. It's not going to be your dream job. It's not going to be here. Get the wheels gone. Just do it. But this office manager gave me a ton of advice on how to advocate for myself and how to ask for a raise. And I'd never done that before.

And I think people should be taught that because you don't know how to negotiate, you know, when you get into the real world. Do you have like a manager that helps you do this or do you do it yourself? Because it's weird that you're like, you are TV entertainment talent but also your own journal. It's like, how does that work? Typically, TV reporters have agents who help do that stuff and just kind of know the business and understand how that works. But it really depends for everybody. You're going to give me a trading secret because you're the best in the country at asking

questions, right? And all day you're dealing with politicians that you get good answers, but you might not get the answer. I just got great information from you. You just gave me everything I need, but I also didn't get anything as it relates to how much you might be baking or have made or any dollar. What would your follow-up question to you be if you were me? Well, okay. It depends. If you're a public official, it's different. I'm way harder on people who make money who get paid by taxpayers. Sure. I think that there's no limits. Yeah. Well, it's also, you can find most of that information out. Yeah. I think I would follow up, honestly, but I think like people knowing how much money I make wouldn't really be that helpful. I think my fault would be, you know, if you're a young person, you're trying to negotiate, like, what's my number one piece of advice? Because I think when I talk to young people, that is like, they need help with things like that.

You know. Yeah, that's true. Because every job is different, but they're actually not that different. I'm going to take your question. I think my advice would be, actually I just did this with someone recently, is to go in if you really, if you're trying to make more money, is to say, look, I love this job. I really want to be invested in your company. And I want to stay here. I don't have to look for new jobs. But I need to be better compensated if I'm going to stay here and continue to work in this role. And I'd like to have a conversation about that. I love that. It's a better way to say, I want a race. because they know what you're saying. Yeah. But you're also saying, look, at all of the value I bring to your company, don't you want me to stay? If you and I were sitting over a beer in Alabama, getting ready for a football game, here's what I would. A yellow hammer. As you know.

Those are awful, by the way. No, there's so good. I mean, it tastes a good, but after one, I'm like, that is more sugar than I kick. Like, I'm going to have the worst hangover. Yeah, but when you're in college, you don't care about that. That's true. It's a great college drink. Yeah.

But like, once you're in your 30s, I was like, I don't know if I could do that. Yeah, it's different. But here's what I would say. I would say, take your skill set. You've been putting it out there since day one, you're bipartisan, and go to a competitive network, get an offer and say, I want to stay here, but can you get competitive? That's true. But you know what you have to be willing to do in that?

It's leave. Exactly. Yeah. And that's tough. That's tough. All right. I'm curious about this. How do ratings and advertisers interest factor into you work and your performance?

It's really interesting now that the fourth wall is being broken down so much that. politicians are very openly talking about people's ratings. We hear President Trump talking about Jimmy Kimmel's ratings. That is a wild world that we're living in now. We hear Fox News being compared to CNN with ratings and such. Do ratings impact your performance and how do ratings and advertiser interests then get involved to your job? Yeah, I mean, Trump will bring up our ratings. Like, if I ask him a question, he doesn't like, he'll just not answer. Speaking of deflecting, he'll just not answer it. Like bring up that or a story that we did that he didn't like. Ratings are important. Obviously, they matter. It's the business model. But, you know, I have two jobs and I focus on those and I let other people focus on the ratings. And we don't, when we decide what we're putting in the show, my team and I every night, which we do, you know, we're constantly rotating and changing things and throwing the script out and trying something new. We do it based on what's the newsiest and like, what's interesting and what's a good story. I mean, last night, we, we, I interviewed the president of the soybean farm association. Most people would be like, what? Like, that's on cable news.

prime time. But it's a really important issue and it's affecting a lot of people. Sure. And it's kind of at the crux of Trump's election and his appeal to farmers. And so we thought it was important to take a moment at 940 or so last night during the show and do that. I think that's awesome. You talk about real-time reporting. There's obviously a lot of speculation out there. Of course, President Trump is always like throwing different comments out. But what is something viewers might be surprised to learn about CNN that you guys do in real time to fact check? things like an impromptu interview or anything that's happening in current news. Because you always, we hear it. Like fake news, fake media is like the constant thing that's said. So like what's a trading

secret that maybe either you do or CNN does to like vet things in real time for fast situations that come up? I always think if you go to someone's job and you watch them do their job, you'll have more respect for what they do. I think that applies to anyone. Like if you're building a house or if you're like a TV reporter. And obviously it is important to be able to fact check in the moment. I think one thing that I have heard from people, whether it was when I was at the White House or now, is they think producers are just talking in your ear constantly. There's like some magical producer who knows everything and is just like telling you all the secrets. And in reality, you're just kind of out there doing it. Like when you're in the briefing room, there's no

voice in your ear. It's you and you're relying on your knowledge, which is why you have to be really well read to be a reporter, to be a good reporter. And so I'm constantly researching and like doing homework and focusing on stuff like that. because you want to be able to respond in real time. And so I just think there's always this notion that you're reading from a prompter or like someone's talking in your ear. And that's just typically not the case when you're like in a briefing or a press conference or an interview.

Yeah, I think one of the things that separates good from great is the ability to instantly respond based on the information you currently have. You got to know your shit. Even if someone was feeding you, right? Like I think recently you just checked Mike Johnson instantly on a fact. that wasn't being said through your earpiece. That was from research and work, correct? Work that my team and I did that day of the interview because politicians, you know,

it's hard to interview them, obviously. You've got to like know how to do it. But they repeat themselves a lot. And so if you actually just do your research and listen to a few appearances they've done, they will just repeat themselves. And often it's with someone who maybe hasn't, you know, exhaustively. Because it takes a lot of work to like fact check something and look at it. it up and you know he kept saying this thing and so we just looked into it whether or not it was true

couldn't find any evidence that it was and so we went into that interview thinking if this is the only thing we do with him we'll all be good with that because it was you know it's worth it yeah makes sense sometimes that gets you into trouble though or at least we've seen 2018 right I think the white house barred you from event based on your questions which were just questions When things like that happen, how does that impact your career? And I think that can relate to anyone that's listening to this, that they're doing their job and they're doing it right. And the world says they're doing it right. And then something happens and it sets them back.

How do you use a setback like that as a momentum to actually put yourself in a better position from a career perspective? I think setbacks in life always happen no matter what line of work you're in. Yeah. But it really is how you respond to it. And taking it on the chin and like dealing with it and moving on. I think for a reporter, it's really important to be neutral in terms of not letting your emotion get in the way or your personal feelings. You're so good at that. Well, I have like no emotions.

So that helps. I think I've like literally messaged you before. Like, how are you keeping a straight face right now? It's unbelievable. I won't say who it was. Someone told me recently they were like, you have resting calm face. And I was like, oh, not like resting bitch face. And they're like, yeah, it's just, you're just calm.

And because I think it's like you're interviewing the person for a reason and people want to hear what they have to say. Like they're the power players. They want to know what they're saying. You know, we're there to ask the questions and push back or like, you know, test something. But I think people want to, and if you get in an argument with a politician and it becomes personal, which Trump tries to do a lot. But I've covered him for a long time now. And if you let it get personal and we start arguing about my ratings or credibility, he's not answering the question that I. I asked him, you know?

Yeah. So technically, net, net, he's, he's, he's winning that conversation. Right. Okay, this is a good question. I think anyone, any profession has to deal with this in some capacity. But like, you know, when you're trying to keep your composure in a situation where someone on the opposite side is doing the exact opposite, let's take a Caroline Levitt, for example, I don't think anyone can disagree with this.

Her natural tendencies are to raise her voice and be. stern and to kind of project her body language forward. And you have had different discussions back and forth with her. How do you keep your composure in moments that become instantly contentious? I think with the press and the press secretaries for all politicians, it's a tense relationship. It's not meant to be buddy, buddy or cozy because you're asking pointed questions about decisions they've made and they probably don't like those questions. I think as reporters, I mean, your job is to ask and their job is to answer. And so, you know, I've had relationships and dealt in the briefing room with a string of press secretaries,

Biden's press secretaries, Kaylee McInney before that, Sean Spicer before that, one press secretary that Trump had that never held a press briefing during her tenure. And so, you know, I think the longer you realize, you know, that all these press secretaries are doing their job for their boss, you kind of understand how they're operating. But that doesn't change your job, which is to ask questions and get them on the right. record. And, you know, I think you have to just approach it that in a sober-minded way. And, you know, I always think what's a question that anyone wants to know the answer to, not just liberals, not just people on the right? What's a question that like, you know, my dad, if he has

been at work all day and he comes home and he's like, well, why is the government still shut down or why is this happening? And why are we striking Iran? And so I just try to think of something that anyone wants to know the answer to, not just one audience. And I think that helps with your credibility. One thing you said on John Stewart Show, I thought was pretty cool, is like, I don't think there's anything the president could say to me that would really surprise me because you're used to his tactics. And again, in this conversation, I'd love to hear different tactics. And because I think whether someone's interviewing or they're going on a date or they're trying to work a conflict in their marriage, the idea of tactics in conversation is something you're doing every single day.

So when you said that quote on John Stewart's show, like what type of tactics is he using? when it creates a situation that you're not surprised at all by a response. Is that deflection? Deflection or, you know, a pattern that I've noticed lately is we'll go in for an event. I'll try to ask a question at the beginning. He'll cut me off and say, no, not you. And then he'll go to maybe two other reporters. And generally, he will come back to me.

You know, it's just kind of this song and dance. And the point of, you know, my point of being in there is to get an answer to the question. Or if they don't answer, that's just as telling. And with Trump, I do think he is quite predictable. Like, if you've covered him for a while, you kind of have an idea of how he'll respond to something or what's a way to get him to answer that maybe, I think short questions with him are the most effective, for example. I think if you have this long windup, like, he's not even listening to your question by the end of it. But like, if you ask a short pointed question, you know, generally he'll answer.

And so I think that is kind of, you know, a way that I go into it when I'm thinking of what's the best information we're trying to get out of this. When it comes to my health, here's my motto. The more information I could get, the better. The more insight I can give, the more I can do for my body. And routine physicals often skip so many of the parts and information that could be helpful for you. That's why I use function. What is function? Well, I chose function because it's the health platform. that gives me data that most people will never get and the insights to start actually doing something about it. Inside function, you get access to test over a hundred plus biomarkers from hormones to toxins to markers of heart health, inflammation, and stress. And for an additional fee, you can also get access to MRI and chest CT scans. The other thing, too, is you can get

information that could then allow you to make changes as far as maybe that your vitamin D levels need to be higher or that you need more zinc or that you might have a high sensitivity to vitamin C. It just provides more information that's going to allow you to better prepare your body, especially as we go into winter season. So you can learn more about joining function using my link. It is a 360 view to see what's happening in your body. And my first 1,000 listeners are going to get a $100 credit toward their membership. go to functionhealth.com slash trading secrets or use code trading secrets 100 and you can sign up for your own health. Check it out. Would you prefer when you're interviewing someone, would you prefer someone

that gives like a long filibuster or someone who's like beyond short? I mean, sometimes politicians are so long-winded that when someone is short. That was a quick response by you. Well, now I'm trying to take my own advice because maybe I'm Philipsoring. I don't want people to be listening to this. and be like, well, she fell a buster bad. But if someone answers, you know, I love when politicians are honest. And it doesn't always happen very often. But if we have someone on the show who's really genuine, I really appreciate that. Senator Bernie Sanders is one of those people because I know we can ask him whatever we want.

And it's not just talking points. And maybe people will completely disagree with him. But he'll genuinely say what he thinks. And so we try to always have people like that on Republican or Democrat or independent because I think that's what our audience likes. I think people like people who are authentic and real and aren't talking points and aren't filibustering through an answer.

Makes sense. One last question I've got to go back to because I know I'm going to forget if I don't is the earpiece. In reality TV, like the host of a show, like Chris Harrison, when he's live on, you know, it's after the final rose and he's got the earpiece in, producers are, like giving him suggestions of exactly what to say. You have already addressed, like people think that they're doing that. I couldn't even respond that fast in real time.

What is the earpiece for that? I mean, do you sometimes get that information? Like, what purpose is it served? You definitely sometimes do. Mostly it's time cues, though, because I mean, the show is timed so perfectly. My poor team, because I'll go long in interviews. Like, if I, if someone says something interesting, I'll just follow up and I'll completely ignore all the questions we had thought planned.

And then the interview goes like five minutes longer, which in cable news is an eternity. And then, you know, we've got to make our commercial breaks and we have to get this. and then we've got a next segment that gets affected by that. So they're like, okay, you've got to wrap it up or 30 seconds or, you know, sometimes a little bit. Like if I can hear the control and be like, oh, like if it was an interesting exchange. But that's really what it's for. It's communication with you in the control room because your team is back there. My team is amazing.

And I truly think one of the best in the business. And so it's just communication between the two of you. Of all the chaotic events that you've covered from 17 to now, which is the most memorable for you in your profession? I mean, there's so many. I was actually just thinking about this when I was in. I mean, COVID was a huge one because it was such a moment that rocked the world. But really, it's, I was just thinking we were in Alaska when Trump met with Putin this time. And I had been in Helsinki when he met with him the last time.

And that was just one, like, you have all these huge moments covering the White House, historic moments. And then you realize, like, later on that that's the thing that stood out in those four years. and it just, it's crazy. Like, seeing Putin in person is crazy. Or, like, seeing Kim Jong-un in person. These people that, you know, you talk about and report on all the time and often are, like, dictators or recluses

that you don't see that much in public, you know? So I think moments like, I mean, there's so many with Trump, but I think moments like that at the top. Yeah, what's something behind the scenes like we wouldn't know? In a moment like that, I have to assume, like, logistics, security,

everything, the schedule you were saying, the food you receive. Everything, I'm assuming, is different. Is it? When President Trump is meeting with Putin, I have to assume that the logistics of your work day to day is going to be different than if you're doing an interview at the White House. Right. Back in New York or D.C. in your office, what are some of the difference that are your average listener of you or someone watching just wouldn't be aware of that affects your work? Well, in Alaska, so we're trying to shoot more behind the scene stuff this term that we do every Friday night at the end of the show. It's a behind the scenes piece because I do think the behind the scenes is so fascinating to people. We kind of take it

for granted because we do it all the time or it doesn't seem that glamorous. And we've actually gotten great feedback on this, but for the Putin summit in Alaska. So it's on a military base. So we're in Anchorage. We get up at probably 5 a.m. and leave the hotel. All the press gets on like a bus, like a school bus. You're sitting on this bus for like two hours. Secret service has to sweep you, which means you physically, but also all your stuff, all your gear. And so it takes forever to get in. And then you get in and it's like, you know, we're just, the sun's finally coming up. And the military base, Elmendorf that hosted us was amazing. They, like, made us all breakfast. But you're all just sitting in a tent and you're all just kind of working, but you're waiting.

And then Trump shows up with Putin. They go behind the scenes to meet. And you're just waiting, waiting, waiting. And so we were standing in the room where the press conference was. And we thought they were still going to have this lunch. So, you know, the Putin meetings, I've been to Trump's Putin meeting and Bidens where they met in Geneva. And this one, they always go really long. Like the Russians just, there's a lot of translation. They always drag them out. And so we were like, it's going to be like 5 p.m. before this thing starts.

And all of a sudden, we're standing inside the room where all the cameras are and the brief, in the press conference room. And a White House official kind of gave me this look and said, you should take your seat. And no one is sitting down at this point. And I said, why? They haven't even started lunch yet. And they just go, you should take your seat. So I went and got a really good seat.

And like five seconds later, everyone rushed in. And they'd canceled the lunch. And then Trump and Putin came out and did their announcements. Are your seats assigned or is it like? No, it's a free for all. I mean, sometimes they're assigned, but very rarely. Like, so it's kind of like, and you want to make sure you have a good seat so you can get a question. So it's like a lot of waiting around and then a huge burst of action.

And then you're processing what happened in real time and then analyzing it on TV. like you don't have the luxury of like writing a story and having an editor look at it you analyze it and i just say it on camera and no one has any idea what you're going to say that's what i'm extremely high pressure extremely time sensitive and then you're sitting around and sitting around and you've got to be on instantly has there ever been a time in your career that like pressure's on president points to you some big moment and you just went blank no because i'm prepared wow that's a great that's a trading secret right there all right let me ask you about this this is something i feel like you can't prepare for. We talk money on this podcast. It's reality. It's on every single headline

every day. I saw yesterday the Kirks are suing the view for 40 million for defamation. We've seen Trump sue ABC. You see Jimmy lose his job. There has to be some instilled fear when these things are happening in a position like yours. This is your job. You don't want to lose it. You're one of the best, if not the best in the country of doing it. How do you navigate those pressures when you wake up to those headlines every day. And you see both sides, right? You see where the rights stands with these conversations. You see the left saying First Amendment's being attacked. Like how do you deal with that? How do you navigate it? And do you feel that pressure? Well, but I think we are in an unprecedented moment of, and this started when Trump won the election where, you know, he would sue news outlets that

he didn't like. And Trump has, I mean, he has been litigious his whole life. Like him or hate it, we've never seen it be successful until now. And that's not because the merits of the lawsuit. are any stronger. A lot of these lawsuits, when you talk to First Amendment lawyers, they think actually the news outlets could have won, but they chose, because Trump has so much power

and was wielding it in the way that he was, that instead they decided to settle. The cost of going and the time and the power associated with it? I don't know what always was their mindset. I mean, we saw it with a lot of businesses, law firms doing this as well. And the ones who are fighting it,

I've made it through the courts. It's not over yet. Obviously, it takes forever. But, but, you know, Harvard or different schools, we've seen how when they fight it, you know, it plays itself out. And it's pretty hard to sue, like, a news outlet or an institution like that if there's no merit. I think what's unprecedented is having them settle and pay him off. And then Trump thinks he's won. But it's not that he's won in court. He's just won because obviously he's got immense power as president. He's using it against these institutions. Does that at all instill fear on your day-to-day, like your job? It doesn't for me because I operate, you know, every day we're trying to be honest and fair and on top of our shit. I think that, but my fear is that it does inhibit some people from writing tougher stories or asking tough questions because they're scared of the repercussions. And I don't think that's a good precedent to set for the media. I don't think you should be scared of anyone of asking them questions.

A Democrat or Republican, you shouldn't fear reprisal if you're doing your job and you're honest and fair. Of all the questions you've had, and let's call it, your Grammy, the interviews you've done, the really good, pointy questions you've asked when you look back so far at your career is like your Grammy moment. That's a good question. I'm going to take that as a massive compliment that you told me I asked again. Yeah, exactly.

Mark it. You should. Or maybe that's a distraction technique for me. It could be. Actually, you're right. You're playing a game chess. I'm playing checkers over here. There was this one moment that I didn't really think it stood out.

but all my friends always bring it up. It was during COVID. And the reason I bring up that time is because there were only like 10 reporters in the briefing room. Okay. So it wasn't packed like you normally see on TV. Like there'd be 10 of us. And it was when Trump came out. The president came out every day, which is so rare, never happens.

And he came out and was talking about not even COVID, but about presidential authority. And he said, when you're president, like you can, you have all the authority. You can do whatever you want, which obviously is not how even like a lot of constitutional attorneys or scholars would look at that. And for some reason, he just called on me next. And I said, that's not true. Who told you that? And I don't even remember what his answer was, but he didn't answer. But the question was genuinely like, who made you think that presidents have all the authority? I mean, that's the entire reason we have three branches of government. And that was an exchange, I think, where it was a moment, a question I didn't even have time to

think about because he just came out and said that. I wasn't prepared to ask that. but it was just kind of a natural reaction of, you know, where did that come from? I think my Grammy moment for your was really posted. You were talking to the Director of National Intelligence. You've fact-checked. You then got, then Caroline came into you. You then fact-checked again. And I think that real went viral.

You know what I'm talking about? Tulsi Gabbard. And what was that regarding again? You know, actually, the Director of National Intelligence never answered my question because Caroline stepped in to, like, back her up. Right. So I actually never even got an answer to that question. You didn't get an answer, but you presented the fact.

And then she said that, okay, your facts, fact, but this is what I know because I'm with the president every day. That's a moment where when you're a reporter who goes into the briefing, there's all this stuff that you know that's happening behind the scenes. And it always isn't maybe reportable on air because you haven't confirmed it or you hear rumblings about what's happening behind the scenes. And I had heard that the director of national intelligence was not really on the president's good list, that he wasn't super happy with the job she was doing.

and basically this move she had taken to declassify these docs was an effort to please him and to make him happy. And so I was thinking in the moment of how can I word this to where it's like what people behind the scenes are saying as well, but also kind of make sure everyone else was brought into that moment in the briefing room. That's really, that's the definition of a game of chess, right?

You know what's happening behind the scenes. You know the moving parts. You know where there's an opportunity to get information that the public could be further interested in and you create an amazing moment, I think, for you and for everyone to watch, which is awesome. You've probably seen a million ants for hair growth products and thought, sure, like that actually works.

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Let's talk about the opposite. Buffalo Bills. They lost four Super Bowls. like your missed opportunity? What's like the one interview, the one time you walked away? You're like, how the hell did I forget to not ask this in this moment? There's a million of those. I don't even know if there's one I could point to, but I always have question, regret. Like, not of what I asked. Normally it's like what I didn't ask or if I think of a, it's, you know, anytime you're in a conversation with someone and you have a really good comeback that you thought of like the next day when you're on the treadmill, that's basically your life every day as a reporter, especially when you're interviewing people. And we always laugh. I have this guy.

Patrick on my team. It was amazing. We're always like, we're always brainstorming questions. And we're always like, yeah, at 3 a.m. I thought of this. And anytime I say that, he's like, well, I was thinking of this this morning when I was dropped my kid off. Like, we always are just, that's how your brain works as a reporter. You're always thinking, I could have asked that better, more direct. I could have stopped talking, you know, I think one key thing to interview someone, and you obviously know this because you do it all time, is to stop talking as the questioner. Like, just let them talk. Yeah. Do you have any other hard and fast rules? like not asking binary questions for yes or no answer or never start a question with a certain

word, any type of like- You know what drives me nuts is, and I think is a crush. Because I think people, it's, you listen to things and so you think, okay, I'm going to do that too. They say, if you're asking a question, if you're a lawmaker, and I'm like grilling you. Yeah. And you just won't answer. Sometimes I see people say, well, let me ask it a different way. And then they ask it. But then that person knows you're still asking the same question. I think that's terrible. So don't say it. Just do it. Just do it. Yeah, because the second you say that, I now have time to rethink about what I'm going to say. Also, my defense mechanism is going to go up more. Like, I don't like the way that's position. I don't feel. So I'm going to go even higher defense mode. Yeah, like when you were asking me how much money I make, I'm not going to say it. Yeah. If you had said, well, let me ask you a different way. Like, I still know you're asking the same question. And now you have time and you're going to be even more defensive. Yeah, you told me what you're doing. Yeah, that's like, that's even more of negotiation. Which I guess negotiation does tie into like arts of negotiation conversation. does tie in a lot to what you do and how you do it. Yeah.

I mean, that's life for anybody. Yeah. All right. I want to get this behind the scene, some trading secrets of the White House. You want Trump administration, Biden administration,

now the Trump administration. We see stuff. Like, you know, we always see the pictures of like the gold and, you know, what are things we don't know? Like,

what are some of just the differences that impact your day-to-day work? Like, is the food different? Is the staffing different? Is the security different? Just like... The food is just a vending machine. That's what you eat there?

Why do I feel like you're getting served I need people to come see the White House because I think it's not, the White House is amazing. Yeah, of course. There is not a day that I walk in where I'm not like, I love covering this place and it's amazing. But when you go in, where the press is. So you see what you see on TV, the press briefing room. The number one comment I always hear from people when they come in is it's so much smaller in person. Interesting.

Like, than what it looks like on TV. Our offices are underneath that. Like some of them are above ground, but like CNN, Fox News, and then a bunch of other. their outlets are downstairs and we have these tiny little things that we call the booth and you're like working shoulder to shoulder with your colleagues it's a very cramped space everyone always has to be in a good mood because if there's one person in a bad mood like you know the whole booth the whole downstairs can feel it we're right next to fox news we share a wall with them we can hear everything they're saying they can hear everything we're saying and it's kind of a moment where it's just not

very glamorous we have this you go upstairs and there's a vending machine that's it that's you have to like leave campus to get food or bring your own. And if you don't, and then Trump goes to like a three-hour press conference, like good luck. How long will security take to get in and start to finish? Like five minutes. It's a secret service. If you have like a certain badge called a hard pass if you go in regularly. And it's the same guys work in the booth. You know them. And yeah, we call the kitchen where we like meet and have like our stuff. We call it the lavateria because the bathrooms are in the kitchen like right there. So it's like when it's a crowded day, you're all on top of each other and it's like crazy something big happening right now

no are we still in shutdown has a shutdown change the shutdown hasn't ended just for the record i mean it could by the end of this podcast when the shutdown does what like we're in a shutdown right now does that change your work hours yeah because we worked until normally my show's 9 to 10 so i'm at the white house all day leave around 7 go get ready for the show do the show we stayed up to 1 a.m the other night though because funding lapsed at midnight So we wanted to be up at midnight when the government actually shut down. You don't sleep much. Not really.

And nor does President Trump. No, I know. I slept four hours last night. And you feel fine? Okay, that's nice. I'm on my, this is my fourth cup of coffee. Four hours is nuts. Four hours is Trump level.

And the night before it was like six before that was like seven. So it varies. But does that what he sleeps? Like four hours? He like does not sleep. Yeah, I did Fox and Friends finance segment. And it was just on Gen Z's in finance. And one of the executive producers, like,

we just want to show you around, and they showed me the control room. And I said, how have things been in the control room as of late? She's like, none of us are sleeping because the president doesn't sleep. We're all working two times right now. Do you feel that's in the way? I was just talking to someone about this, because we wrote this story on what traveling with him is like in the first term, because I had this source who said, you never want to be on Air Force One on a trip. And I said, why?

Like, you'd think you want to be in the axis of power or close to Trump. he doesn't sleep on these trips and like you're going to Asia or something and that's kind of the only time you're going to sleep before you go on this trip yeah but Trump is just always up and talking and he'll like have them go wake staff up if they're asleep because he wants to talk to them and so they we have this big trip to Asia coming up and you know you're just you're not going to sleep on that flight one thing I got to ask and I hate that I compare it back to reality TV but reality TV it's all I know people will be on camera don't I love reality TV all right good all right good I love that what's your show what do you watch I mean, I'm a big Bravo person. Okay. So which are the Bravo shows? All of them. What's your favorite? I love the Real Housewives, many of the franchises.

I was a pump rules person. Love Southern Charm. Okay. Those are pretty much them. You know, I laugh because our CNN photojournalists, they might kill me for saying this. There's these amazing guys, great reporters. They love below deck. Oh, interesting.

Huge below deck people. Yeah, those people could party. Yeah. They've been out with it. They love watching below deck. That's kind of my question. though. It's like we see everything that happens on camera. Real housewives, they have this, like, serious contention. Cameras are off and they kind of sometimes won't get each other

play the game. Like, all right, we're doing that. That is what it is. It's different on camera versus off camera. That is Trump. Okay. Is that Trump? Okay. Is that Trump? Like, how about Caroline Levin? Is that the same way? You know, with Carolyn Levin, obviously, I think, you know, being a Trump spokesperson is a very singular job and you can watch the briefings for yourself. I will say, and I told this story recently, when we were in, Saudi Arabia on a trip recently a couple of months ago there was this moment where I was in the pool

and all the world leaders came in including the Saudi Crown Prince and we're like covering this event and the Saudi Crown Prince comes in and he obviously does not like the press if you know history at all and they don't get questions shouted at them like we do in the United States

and Trump walked in and he kind of waved at me and so I shouted a question to him about how the meeting had gone because it was his high stakes meeting and right after that the Saudi Royal Guard was like, you cannot come into the next event. And they were, you know, all like, they were deeply upset that I had asked a question. And they were all kind of talking. And I said, no, like, I'm, I told the White House press, I was like, you can't like block someone from coming in.

Like, that's like kind of our number one thing. Yeah. And to Caroline Levitt's credit, she was like, no, Caitlin's coming in with the rest of the U.S. press. And so I went into the next event. Wow. But I think things like that, you know, you can disagree about questions and briefings and whatnot. Press access is like key in every administration I think should should protect that. I love it. All right. Well, what's next? Like, where do you go? Do you have an interest at all in getting into politics? Like you've seen so many angles of it? My dad really wants me to run for office. Would you? No, he just wants to get like better seats to the baseball games. Like truly he does. But would you run for office? No. I like to cover politicians. I don't think I want to be one.

You don't think in a wild world you might. I mean, I would never say no because I always. I also never thought I'd be a cable news anchor covering Donald Trump with the White House. So where do you see your career going? I'm plenty busy right now. I don't know. I got it like, I'm like. Yeah. But you have, I heard you talk on an interview about like you have a, you have a notepad of people that you want to interview, correct?

Yeah. So do you have a notepad anywhere of like career dreams, aspirations, financial dreams? No, I think that obviously I love being in the game. I always want to be successful. I'm really ambitious. but I also think that you can't plan too far ahead. Like, I never planned this. And I think that if I had got out of college

or if I had been 24 and said, this is what I'm going to do, I might not have ended up where I am. And I might have said no to certain opportunities. And that's why I just think it's good to have goals and things that you want to do and work to achieve them. But I think you also have to be open

for what comes your way. Because did I ever think Trump would be president and I would cover the White House? No. did ever think Trump would be president again? And I'd be covering the White House again. Also, no. But here I am. And a million years in high school or even college or even just as a kid, did you ever think you would be a chief White House correspondent? Was that ever in your trajectory? No, I tried to be a chemist in college. And I was so bad at chemistry. And I nearly failed chem 102 at my sophomore

year or my second semester of freshman year. And I went home and I truly was like, I need a new major. or I'm going to fail out of college. And I didn't like college. I wasn't enjoying school. I mean, I was having fun at Alabama, but I wasn't like really committed and engaged. And I switched to journalism and political science. And it totally changed everything for me.

I loved going to class. I never missed class. I became this great student. But I cared about what I was doing. So I think you have to like care and have some passion for what you're doing. It's brilliant. I mean,

there's so many good trading secrets just in this interview. Just a couple questions. I'm going to wrap up. Last one I got for you is you're in it, you see it, you're researching it every single day. If you had to predict what like state of the union of U.S. politics looks like in like a year or two, like given the information you have, like what do you, what do you, let's just hope we're still here. I hate that the whole Lord was your response. I truly because I do you think this is the most chaotic time since you've been in this position? No, I don't actually. And I've been doing a lot of reading on that. And there's this book I read.

read recently called the age of acrimony. Okay. If you, I mean, it's not forever, but it's about the United States from like the 1860s until 1910. And it was crazy. And there were political assassinations all the time. When people would go out on the campaign trail, they were like getting physically assaulted. It was just, it was a moment in America where you read this and you think, whoa, how did we

come back from the brink? And we did. And so obviously I think, you know, we are in a moment, though, where I think anyone you talk to about politics. It's just like such a divisive conversation. People feel hopeless about it. And I hope that's not always the case. The future? What does it look like? I don't know. You're so good at deflecting and I forgot where I was. I'm like, I got to go back five statements. No, it was a really, I'm serious when I say it was. I don't know. I can't it was a great. It was a great answer. And every answer you've given, honestly, has been just full of

information and just insight. I think as people navigate their careers. And, and things that they want to do and tactics they use in conversations and just the idea of like you can't look that far ahead because if you look that far ahead, you might have had a blueprint for something else that never would have put you here. And so I think that all makes so much sense. I could talk to you for another hour or two, but I know your phones are busy. You're buzzing. The government shut down and you've got to get back to work. So let's wrap with your trading secret. So you've given us a lot of it, but it's specific to you. You can't get in a TikTok tutorial, which by the way, before I get into that, why don't you're not active

on TikTok. Okay. I'm so glad you brought this up. Is that a CNN thing or no? No, I actually just signed up for TikTok the day because someone... You have 21 posts it's so funny because someone from TikTok texts to me while we're doing this podcast because I'm trying to get my account because there's an imposter account for me

that I think Danielle is seen. It has 90,000 followers. Like there's all these imposture... That's the one I thought is. It's not me. And it's verified and there's 21 posts. Yeah. It's not me. They just ripped my content. Why aren't you on TikTok? I'm on Twitter. I'm on Instagram. But I'm now delving into the TikTok world. But I just said it wasn't like for me, I thought.

Okay. I got one more question. I know you got to go. This is what I'm really interested in. Because it has to do with social media monetization. We're seeing a lot of like reporters, journalists that were the head of all the shows within their networks like a Tucker Carlson. And they're now going independent. And they talk very openly about how much like money they're making independently first with the network. I just wanted to get your take. Do you think I'm not asking you specifically if it's something

you're thinking about, but do you think it's a possibility that that's what ends up happening? Like everyone has their own network? I don't know. I think it's obviously been really successful for some people and it's a venture that like is a new space that people are exploring and I think it's been

really lucrative for a lot of them. The other part of it though that I think people have to keep in mind is the reason when Russia invades Ukraine that you're watching it live on CNN is because we've been stationed there for months. Like, we've poured all these resources into this. And so I think there's a huge value in independent media. I also think there's a value, though, in having, like, an organization that is, like, a huge machine like CNN. Sure.

That can, like, be ready for something like that. Like with Israel and Gaza, we have reporters on the ground, you know, as it's happening and, like, covering it to where you're watching it in a way you can't with other things. So I see the benefits in both. And I think that there's a lot to listen to, a lot to watch. And I think both are beneficial to people. It's a good point. It's a good point. All right. We'll get your training secret this time. So something you can't learn in a textbook or learn from a professor or a TikTok tutorial, which you're not on. Those are fake accounts that you will be. But TBD. But TBD. It's coming soon. What's something you could leave us with, Caitlin. No matter what industry you're in. It's also you feeling confident in the moment and you feeling like

you've got this because even if sometimes you can be prepared but if you don't have that you know you're not going to be the best you can be being a reporter you have to be confident because you're getting chastised sometimes or like people are trying to like make you cower or be scared of asking your question and you kind of can be in there maybe by yourself and you're in that moment or if you're in a one-on-one interview you really have to come at it with that and I what the reason I'm so prepared and I always try to be prepared is because that gives you the confidence, I think, to ask whatever you want. Like, I don't need to always have notes or if I'm sitting in a briefing, the reason you can respond quickly is because you're well-read and well-versed on the

issue. And I always think people can know when you know what you're talking about. And if you don't, they can sense it. And so I just think no matter what job you're in or what you're doing, being prepared and hard work, honestly. You know, when I started CNN, I was asked to stay late at the White House. I missed a million dinners, birthday parties. whatever. But I always said yes because I loved the work and I really enjoyed it. And I think if you're willing to do things that other people aren't, you will succeed in places where other people don't. How many hours a day do you think you're preparing for whatever's next? I'm constantly preparing. Just doesn't stop. Like it really, I mean, every now and then maybe, but like even on the

weekends, I'm reading the paper front to back. I watch the Sunday shows. I'm on Twitter. Because you never know when something's going to happen. You know, it doesn't happen. News doesn't break nine to five. Yeah. Like it's always like the, it's always like the least convenient moment. As like, you know, when I'm in an Uber going to visit my friend's baby and Biden drops out and we whip around and go to CNN. So it's just being prepared. That is awesome. Because you know what the moment to come and to miss it, you know? You can't. You can't miss it and you got to be prepared. It's amazing to see what you've done in such a short period of time. Congratulations on all the success. Thank you for trading all the secrets. Even the questions you weren't asked. You still gave me enough. You still gave me a enough in those deflections. Where can everyone find everything you have going on? TikTok? Not. To come. To come. Instagram. Twitter is where I live, though. I love it. All right. Good stuff. Thank you for having me. This was so fun. So this was great. You killed it. Thank you. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell with the one, the only, the curious Canadian on the Caitlin Collins podcast, David. It was a long episode, but it was a good

episode. It was one of those interviews where my brain was moving a hundred miles an hour the entire time because I could tell her brain moves at the same speed, extremely smart, extremely sharp. And there's just a whole lot of things happening in her world right now. We know that we are in our second government shutdown since she's been working in this position. Last time the shutdown was December 22nd, 35 days. We are now on shutdown two. And so much happening domestically and internationally. She is a busy woman and it was fascinating to learn behind the scenes. What were some of your takeaways from this episode? Well, before I get into my takeaways, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head in terms of just in one way, an area we don't normally

cover in politics, obviously being the Canadian on the ones and twos here. Definitely not my forte American politics. Obviously, I've lived here for a long time. So I've consumed a little bit of it, temperature of the climate, but I can't vote. So I don't really, you know, wear it on my forehead about, you know, that I'm going to live and die on certain hills, you know, I never heard of Caitlin Collins before. And I think that that might alarm some people, but I don't, I'm not a watcher of CNN or Fox News. And I always think with the guests that we have on here, you know, the variety that we have from athletes to reality TV people to multi-billionaires to CEOs, I'm always curious more of your, like, reaction from your audience.

When you heard, when we people heard that you were getting Caitlin Collins on, was her reaction to her any different than maybe some more well-known quote-unquote celebrities that we've had on? Yeah, the reaction was really interesting. I'm glad you asked that question. I had a lot of family members, friends, people that I know well reach out saying just like, how did you land this or massive Git. I had someone who is a surgeon in the military and his wife reach out saying like, this is amazing, good for you. That's such a great get. A lot of people are just saying like how and in the level of impressed they were that we had her on because, you know, she is one of the best out there as far as like up-and-comers right now, when you look at like, you know, two people at a very young age that are doing

massive things in politics, whether you hate them or love them, whether it's covering at them or representing the White House, the two people, to me, that come to mind are going to be Caroline Levitt and then are going to be Caitlin Collins. Now, obviously, there's many others that are doing like independent stuff, which we talked about, right? Like a Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson. There's a laundry list. But yeah, it was, it was good. Now, I will say, too, I had a lot of Trump supporters sending messages that maybe weren't as so nice and or questioning because I, when I posted about it, I talked about how sharp she was and because they are Trump supporters. They have something against her. And I don't care if you are left or you are right or

whatever you lean politically. There's one thing that is just a fact. Caitlin Collins is a very smart individual, a very sharp individual, a very successful one. And clearly from this interview, one who prepares extremely hard and works harder than I would say 99.9% of the country, which is also a topic for discussion in this recap, like how she could possibly manage work-life balance is one of the hardest of almost anyone we've ever had on the show, especially during this administration. Yeah, I think you summed it up well there. And I think, too, what a compliment for us that she is a massive fan of the podcast. She's a listener, true and tried listener, which had my jaw on the floor within the first minute of the episode. So if she was trying to do get

my attention while listening, she did because that was something that I definitely wasn't expecting. Were you aware that she knew of us? Or how did even this come across to get her on? That's a great question. I have, I would have to look at like the receipts, but I believe in the past I have DM'd her because maybe I saw an interview. Like I just admire so much people that are good interviewers,

especially stepping into podcasting for four years because it really is a lot harder than you would anticipate, especially when you're doing all the prep and like producing pretty much yourself, not having a massive team behind you to, like, come up with all these intricate moving parts. And I saw one of her interviews. I was like, damn, that was good. I must have said something to her. And we talked back and forth.

And I'd say, hey, at some point, I'd love to have you on the show. And she had mentioned she listens here and there and would love to be on. So that was pretty cool. But I'll tell you, like, this was, to your point, David, right there, this was one of those episodes that was like a little bit of a wake-up call to me. Like, wow. Like, I have a few moments over the last eight years. where I'm like, wow, what we're doing is like really differentiated, right? It's like, it's we're doing something different that a lot of reality stars who get their

platform wouldn't be able to do with their platform now, right? We can, a lot of similar podcasts, peers and stuff, we could have leads on from Batch or Netflix or NBC, but to like have someone who literally in their phone has the direct cell phone message of the most powerful man in the entire universe and the most like the highest political leaders across the world and on a day-to-day basis she's talking to them and interviewing them and then putting it out into mainstream media and our start was me going on the bachelor at bacheloret and you come into visit on one of the episodes like it's kind of like damn like we're doing something different which feels good a hundred percent and i even remember in hearing like the hype and the

excitement and like how important it was to have her on in terms of like, you know, like all the things you mentioned, the gravity of who she is and what she represents to want to come on our podcast. I was like, should we even do a recap? Because I don't think I'm qualified to even speak about her. Right. So the fact that we are, I was like, okay, you know, and I don't know how she has time to listen to our podcast because it sounds like she has one of the busiest lives ever being at the White House till seven o'clock. And then being on TV from nine to 10 and you guys talked about your, you know, your lack of sleep, and you guys are both crushing it. But I thought she was great. As a guy who really doesn't tip us to own politics, you always hear maybe stereotypes or prototypes of, oh, this channel's that, that channels that. She has CNN correspondent for the White House. She talked about someone like Donald Trump.

She didn't get any, at no point was she trying to get anyone to dislike him. At no point was she trying to get anyone to like them. She just gave you the nice behind the scenes kind of look at what it's like working and dealing with him. comparatively to the Biden administration as well. I just thought that stuff was really fascinating as like just a listener wanting to kind of see behind the curtain a little bit. And obviously she did a great job at it.

Yeah. I mean, she worked for the daily caller, which is a right-leaning conservative outlet. She now works for CNN, which is a left-leaning outlet. And she's a registered independent voter. And I think I personally think what she does a really good job of is what she said she does, which is asking the questions that people want to hear without inserting an opinion but driving facts. There's obviously a lot of political podcasts.

And, you know, like a Joe Rogan show or a Tucker Carlson or, you know, there's a million others. But where they insert, of course, opinion, they're not just doing the interviewing. I thought, especially in this interview, she did a really good job of saying, like, that's what I'm here to do. That's what I do.

And it's so interesting because you asked her about the state of state of the unit on U.S. politics. And she said, we are in a moment of divisiveness and hopelessness. And she did say that, you know, these aren't really comparatively to the history. These aren't even the most chaotic times by any means. But the highlight, I think, of this kind of day and age that we're in our divisiveness and hopelessness. So it's going to be interesting. I hope that the reaction to this is positive because people understand why we're having it on.

I'm sure because it may be, it's not even a political podcast topic. It's more about the industry. but we'll see if the reviews or if the comments are different, just because, like you said, people are already commenting on in your DMs and stuff. But in typical trading secrets fashion, Jay, there was also some great takeaways and some great advice and some great quotes. And I thought that, you know, she delivered as a lot of our guests do in those areas as well. This podcast, this episode, was not at all meant to be any form of political.

It was meant to take an industry that is so in our face right now. because it's so, like you said, divisive and polarizing and further understand how this industry works, the ins and outs, the behind the scenes, things that we otherwise wouldn't have known. And it's an education podcast. I thought this was extremely educational, especially when you look at some of the big things she talked about. And you and I talked a little bit when we prep for this. But some of the things she said about interviewing, like, let me word this another way. Or I don't think as far, like, I always have moments on this podcast that I'll always remember. You know, there's moments like in interviews where I had Rob Deerdeck on, you know. Chris Voss.

There's so many others. Chris Voss. There's a million. And Chris Voss is coming back on. But the one I don't think I'll ever forget is when I was like, you ever had a moment. You ever had a moment of like panic or, you know, the president points to you. And you've had your question prepared for two hours and it's ready to go. And you just freeze up or pause or have a moment.

And her instant response is, no. And I said, how? And she said, because I'm prepared with such confidence. And I think there's so many people in this world, and you could probably attest to this, especially when it comes to athletics and youth hockey and things like that. But there's so many people out there that say,

I work hard, I prepare hard. And they overcalculate what they actually do. This is a person who doesn't stop. It's 24-7 preparation. There's never a moment that preparation isn't at the foresight of what she's doing. And you could see it in their work, and you saw it in that answer.

Yeah, it's the X factor. I think athletes, like, they all know the same plays. is they all get put in the same situations. Why are some able to rise to the top, right? You could be a quarterback on football. It could be, you know, any position, but it's like there's the it factor

where their confidence gives them the belief to be able to execute while everyone else is preparing and has the same knowledge as they do. And I think that she obviously crushes it at that. And she even said in her trading secret, preparation will only get you so far, feeling confident, you have to feel like you got this. And I did love the quote,

if you're willing to do things that other people aren't, you will be more successful than them for that very reason. I thought that was, like, you know, pretty motivating. And, you know, I just love the insight that she gave is someone who clearly has never thought about what it's like to work in the White House, how she was saying, like, yeah, the food we get, it's in a vending machine.

Like, the White House, it's really fucking small. Like, the workspace is tiny. It's shoulder to the shoulder. You can hear Fox News through the wall talking about their angles on stories. All that stuff, I thought was really, really, really fascinating. Her talking about, like, you never want to get caught on a flight on Air Force One over to Asia because you're not sleeping because the president doesn't sleep.

And, like, you got to, like, you know, that stuff is like so cool that we get that insight. And that's at the end of the day, you know, like we always said, the premise of the podcast was to give people an insight into industries otherwise that they wouldn't. Even the intensity of, like, you don't think about, like, what is it like for a journalist on the floor when you're seeing like Putin live. Yeah, that was cool. The intensity of like that per, like that's that or even behind the scenes of the war room when she said she was with President Trump's team, I think it was 2017.

And she's like, they were shocked that they won. Like stuff like that you don't hear. Like it was really interesting to hear that. And then the story, man, I just can't. Just imagine, just imagine I'm on my way to your house. like I'm in an Uber. I'm just going to bring that up. I haven't highlighted here.

I'm going to hang out with Carter to like see, because that's what she was going, right, to her friend's baby. And all of a sudden, she finds out via a tweet that President Biden is dropping out of the race and then she's dialing Trump in the backseat.

And the Uber is like, and he picks up like, and the Uber knows that she's like, well, the Uber knew the voice. It's a pretty distinct voice. And the Uber is like, I'm surprised that Uber didn't crash

or break his neck trying to look back. to be like, are you talking to who I think you're talking to? Now, again, very hard to compare these to in any way, shape, or form. But I got to tell you, got to be careful what you're saying in front of your Uber's. The other day, I was with an Uber driver, and I was just re-listing to the video I did on the government shutdown just to see if, like, I could have done something differently. And after the Uber's like, hey, can you tell me more about the shutdown? Was that you?

And he asked me a hundred questions. I'm like, these Ubers are listening to everything. Well, you also are, let's call a spade of spade of spade. You are so guilty for having the loudest phone volume of all time when you're checking through things. It's like you got a super bass boost on that thing. It's the loudest thing ever. But yeah, you got to be on your toes. Got to be on your toes.

You're also sensitive to noise. Can we agree? Like two things like both are true. Listen, when you take a charter bus with 44 hockey players and if every kid is playing music on their phone without headphones, you would have an aneurysm. So I've gotten very used to telling

people like headphones or no phones like get it together. So yeah, that's where it comes from. That's where it from. That's where it come from. Well, I hope everyone found this to be an educational episode. That's what it was supposed to do, irregardless of what your political beliefs are. It was cool to tap into an industry that we have yet to do so, and I hope to do so in more ways. So let us know in the comments. Please give us five stars. It really helps the show. And then if you have positive feedback or negative feedback on this episode, you can put it there. We will watch. Please just give us

five stars. That helps out a lot. David, anything before we wrap? Nothing. This was a nice change of pace. I'm looking forward to the Harry Jousy episode, the Chris Boss episode, and getting back to some of our favorite guests. We talked about it last recap. You and I are both notorious for bringing up things that we are going to commit to the prior week to discuss and falling through. So we're at least going to acknowledge that you and I have to have a social media strategy argument. David, it sometimes likes to be my social media manager. Sometimes I'm like genius feedback. Sometimes I'm like, you are just way the fuck off base. We get into battles. We're going to bring those battles to live next recap so david are you down for that oh yeah you say

manager i sometimes i just say troll so either troll yeah yeah you troll me on taylor swift you troll me on my soul yeah everyone everyone's got carids out there or haters or jacks or johns that are throwing them shit i get david he's my number one troll yep that's it i love it yeah doing my job just doing my job here all right well it's been a hot streak for trading secrets. David, good news is things are going really well. Downloads are up. YouTube views are high. Instagram impressions are off the charts right now. So please follow us on Trading Secrets podcast, Trading Secrets YouTube, Jason Tark, David Ardwin. Thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets. One, hopefully you couldn't afford to miss.

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