Trading Secrets - 30: The Millionaires’ Magician, Steve Cohen, Reveals His Secrets…to Success

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

World Famous Magician to Millionaires Steve Cohen shares with Jason some of the tricks up his sleeve and his journey along the way. From his first gig at age 10 to lying to his wife about his show which barely broke even at the time, to grossing over 25 million dollars, to clever tricks to remember people’s names, to how to sell high ticket items by making your product the most desired, it’s another episode you can’t afford to miss.  For All Access Content - join our networking group for less than 30 cents a day! Ourcrowd.com/secrets to join the fastest growing venture capital investment community Shopify.com/secrets for a free 14-day trial manscaped.com code SECRETS for 20% off + free shipping Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tardick. We have a little bit of different cadence today before we ring in the opening bell. First of all, I just want to thank you guys. This has been such an amazing run. and I never in a million years dreamed that this far we would be so close to a million downloads. The feedback's been amazing and I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your support.

The biggest favor you could do for me is if you enjoy this podcast, tell your colleagues, tell your coworkers, tell your mom, dad, your partners, word of mouth, which we talk about in this upcoming episode is really important. And if you could do that, we'd appreciate it. Also, we have a few updates. the biggest update is we have the millionaire magician coming on and you'll hear all about the things he does, stage presence, the psychology of working with humans, whether it's a partner or a business person or a manager, you're going to hear about it. But his tickets to his show are roughly around

$3 to $500 a ticket. He's giving away two of those. So two of our listeners are going to get to go to his show in New York City. Here's how you enter. Give us five-star review on Apple podcast review and just write anything great podcast enjoy it write feedback maybe a guest you'd like us to have and put your instagram or twitter handle or your email anywhere we can contact you then just go to the home of trading secrets podcast which is restart underscore reset and give us a follow and we now have a trading secrets facebook group so just join that for free you'll be entered and by december 20th we will be giving the two tickets away again thank you so so much for listening. Please provide any feedback you have. And if you share anything trading

secrets related, please tag restart underscore reset, myself, Jason underscore Tarduk, and at David Ardoin, and we will share everything you are sharing. Without further ado, let's bring in the millionaire magician Steve Cohen. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are shaking things up with the guest that is literally going to blow your mind. He blew my mind. Steve Cohen, aka the Millionaire's magician, who is a world-class magician performing for elite audiences all over the world. His audiences include a huge list of celebrities and royalty, including Woody Allen, William Goldman, Warren Buffett, who we talk a lot about on this podcast. Michael Bloomberg, another one who we talk about on this podcast, the Queen of Morocco.

Trust me, when I tell you, the list goes on. In 2020, he starred in Lost Magic, Decoded, a two-hour special on the History Channel where he traveled to England, India, and all across the United States documenting the forgotten origins of magic and Theater of Wonder, a sold-out solo show at Carnegie Hall.

He's been featured on CBS Sunday morning, CNN, and late night with David Letterman, the one and only, and in numerous publications, which has been fun reading prepping for this interview, including the New York Times, Variety, Forbes magazine. Not to mention, he is also the author of three noteworthy books. One I got behind me, win the crown, the millionaire's magician, and confronting magic.

Steve, thank you so much for being here today on Trading Secrets. We're excited to have you. Thank you very much. And by the way, I'm not planning on trading any of my magic secrets today, so I'm getting the ideas. If there's one thing I knew coming in this interview is that you wouldn't give me any secrets as it relates to your magic. But what we're dying to know is a lot about.

Kind of like the career navigation and also just the business and the psychology just around the industry. So, you know, my brother was funny. I grew up. I was always like an athlete. And my brother was always into theater. And he was actually a magician. So I would be his little like guinea pig. And I would always say, you know, Steve, what are your secret?

Like tell me the secret. Let me know. And he's like, can you keep a secret? And say, yeah, he goes, so can I. So can I. Yes, that's the classic. The classic put down or shut down line for any magician. The classic.

Can you keep a secret? Yes, so can I. It's a classic. It's a little bit snarky, but it works. Now, I'm going off the cuff here because I have a question I want to start off with, but per this little banter, there was that one magician that had that one television show, the masked magician. Before I even get, because I have a whole interview and certain things I want to talk about,

that had to absolutely irritate the hell out of all magicians, right? Where the masked magician would actually show the viewer the trick. You know, I think that people have, the public has a very short memory. And even if they saw how something was done, they wouldn't be able to put two and two together the next time they see a magician performing that same trick. So, for example, if someone said to you, okay, here's how you can, you know, fix the spark plugs in your car, in your car engine. Yeah. Like, you watch a YouTube video that shows how to fix your, you know, to fix the suspension of your vehicle. You know, you say, okay, I see how it's done now.

but if you give me a car, you know, three months from now where I have to actually do this myself, I could never do it. So it's still amazing. That's how I think that the mass magician, people, it goes in one ear and out the other. Yeah, it's so true. It's getting me comprehend it. And like you said, there's also different ways to do it. And maybe that's not the one size fits all. So I had to ask you while I had you that. I remember my brother used to like, we were young. It's instilled on my brain that he was like, yeah, that guy's getting death threats. Like, it's bad. And I believe that he probably did. I believe that he probably, I think that he was in some sort of a tax default situation and he needed the money. And the production company was offering him the exact money that he needed

to pay off his taxes. So he was basically just digging himself out of a whole. From my understanding, I've never met the guy before. But that's what I heard through the grape find of magicians. Wow. All right. There's a little trading secret there. So you got to give your secrets, but you don't want to trade all the secrets. That's a lesson learned there. Now, one thing about Steve is I had the pleasure of going to your show and then meeting you after and speaking with you. And then I also have your book and read your book. And the one thing that stuck out to me, especially when I think about our listeners who are navigating either entrepreneurship or working as employees is you said that everyone just like in life, they want to experience a miracle. And yes, I think it starts with

your tricks. And your tricks are incredible, especially the one that you finish with. But what also to me like is a miracle is like the presentation. And I actually asked you about it. But you know, guys, I want you to imagine you're in this room. You could correct me when I'm off on numbers, but 30 to, let's say, 50 people. And Steve will perform for hours, and he'll remember everybody's name and then reference them later in the show.

And not only is it the actual magic you're doing, it's the performance of like the intimacy. You're remembering every person and where they're from, and it's just like to me, that blew, obviously the magic blew me away, but that blew me away. That was a miracle. Now, I think about our audience. what type of lessons or what type of like maybe memorization skills or tactics do you do to present

a miracle to someone that maybe, you know, Joe and Idaho can do when he meets with his boss next time or a client or tries to get someone new? What are some things you use from a stage present perspective, you know, that we could bring into our daily lives? Sure things. So I think what you're referencing is the idea of building community. And, you know, when you have a bunch of strangers, they're walking into a room. And this can also be, let's say, you're working, you know, in front of new clients, or if you're working in a boardroom, you're working with committee members. You know, you're basically trying to build community. And when you build that community, then you're actually able to move forward with your own agenda, right? Because

people are kind of polarized with what you're trying to say and what you're trying to get across. So that's what I try to do in the beginning of my show, is I'm trying to take this room of disparate people, people who come in from Idaho, from New York, from all over the world. And before the pandemic, we had every show at least five or six people that would be coming from England or Australia or Japan or wherever they happen to be. You know, you have people who literally have nothing to do with each other. But by the end of the show, which is about an hour and 45 minutes long, I'm trying to get these people to feel like they're part of a group and this is like a group mind. Now, how do you do that? So one of the things I like to do is

us is to, to basically learn who these people are. And so one way to do that, obviously, like you mentioned, is by capturing their names. Now, how do you remember people's names? It always goes in one ear and out the other. You may not even go in your ear. You just, you know, you're always thinking about what you want to say next. And so when someone says their name, it just kind of zips right by you and you don't pay attention. So my, one of my closest friends, he's now 95 years old, is a man in Harry Lorraine. And Harry Lorraine, and Harry Lurie, is considered to be like the Yoda of memory training. That's his main quote. And he teaches or has taught over the past like 75 years how to train your memory to be superpowered. And I learned his

courses and I was ready to his books and studied his techniques and figured out how to quickly remember his people's names and then be able to recall them also on the spot. And when someone hears their name, it becomes a moment that they're instantly engaged in. So, for example, if I say your name Jason, you perk up, right? And if I say your name again, Jason again, you're like, what? He said my name. And imagine if it's a stranger saying your name in front of a group of people. You're definitely going to be paying attention to that stranger.

That's true. Right? So, right? So, you know, so let's say then that I'm remembering Jason, but I'm also remembering Kirby and I'm remembering Katie and I'm remembering Evan and I'm remembering, you know, Alex, I'm remembering June, and remembering all these people's names, suddenly people say, wait a minute, this guy is not just reciting a script. He's here for us. He's actually engaging with us personally. And that's what I talked about creating this feeling of community is when

people realize, oh, I could be called next. It could be me. And not only that, but he knows me. He knows my name. He knows something about me. He knows who I came with. And that's where people start to really start to lean in. And that's what you're aiming for. as a presenter or as an entrepreneur is to get the audience or your prospective business collaborator to lean into you. So here's some techniques I've used to remember people's names. One of them is super simple. It's just repeating it and repeating it multiple times because you may not actually hear the other person say it, but you'll hear yourself say it. So if someone say, if I say, hi, I'm Steve, what's your name? And you say, I'm Jason. And I say, hey, Jason, it's nice to meet you,

Jason. Jason, let me ask you a question. Jason, I've got an idea. idea. I've already said your name five, four or five times. Right? And I learned this from a friend of mine who was also a student of Harry Lorraine. And it's because you're hearing yourself say it, that you can't help but remember it. So for example, if I have someone who's, you know, introduced himself, hey, what's your name? My name is Kirby. Hey, Kirby, that's an interesting name. Let me ask you a question, Kirby. I mean, you see, I've already said Kirby's name four times, right? And now I remember that name because I've heard it. It's like muscle memory. Yeah. That's a simple, that's a simple technique.

Now, another technique that I've used for remembering people's names is to associate it with someone who I know who has the same name. Okay, so let's say that, for example, I know a guy named Jason Kingsley, who I do. And then you introduce yourself and you say, my name is Jason. I go, wait a minute, why is Jason Kingsley here? Right? And that sticks in my head. Like, does my buddy, a guy who I've known for 25 years, is in the show?

Oh, oh, Jason's here and you're the Jason. Okay. So that's how I'm able to trick myself into remembering the name is because I know someone else with that name. But let's say you come across someone who has a name that you don't know. And that's the trick, isn't it? When you could use that first technique I mentioned, you know, repeating it over and over again. But it's also really helpful. And this is what Harry Lorraine taught me.

And by the way, Harry Lorraine, aside from being a great memory expert, is also a close-up magician. So we have a lot of, a lot in common. He also teaches to take a name and basically, exploit the sound of the name and turn it into something either grotesque or perverted or something visually stimulating so you can't help but remember it.

So for example, your name is Jason, right? Yeah. So I could picture, for instance, the son, Jay's son, right? And I can picture the sun like spurting out these letter J's. Jay, Sun, right?

So when I look at your face, like I see now you've got like a goatee, you've got, black hair with a widow's peak. And I can picture like, like your hair is not just black hair. It's actually on fire, like the sun. And then it's spurting out J's, right? And so now I'm thinking, okay, I can't possibly forget that. When I look at you, I'm going to think Jay's son. Now, for me, like my name is Steve, right? I've got the name Steve. So in my hair, I've got reddish hair, I've got like an Auburn hair. And so I'm not saying that hair has to be the key, but it does in this

case. You know, you might think, okay, I meet this guy named Steve. Steve sounds like stove, right? And my hair is on fire. It's reddish, right? Right? So his stove is where you get the fire. So you get a picture like, okay, I click this guy's ear and then his hair goes on fire. Oh, he's a stove, therefore he's steep. And you know, in the beginning, these little tricks take time. But after a while, they become so easy. Like, you hear a name and you just kind of play with it. And it becomes a name and you can instantly, you know, transform into a visual image. Fascinating. You often see people with their passions at an early age identified going full speed. And so so many people that are listening to this have passions, but they're doing their other

work or their other school or whatever it is. And so is that because I was going to say you went to college and not only did you go to college, go to Ivy League. So that was part of the process is that even when you went to college, you knew that what you were taking away from your studies was going to just accelerate your passion in your long term career. Yes. Yeah. So sometimes I took a class where the professor would give me a B. And in my mind, I was saying, no, no, I gave myself an A, because I actually got more out of this than the professor gives me credit for it. So there are times where I learned in psychology class or mostly in psychology, actually,

but also in some of my design classes. I took out ideas that there is no way that the grade that I got equated to what I actually personally took away from it. And it's only because I was looking at it through my own lens. And I was trying to see things that maybe the professor wasn't even intending me to see. For instance, if there are two objects moving, which one does the eye follow? The I will follow the faster one or the one that starts to move first. And so for me, that was in a psychology class, a really important area to pay attention to.

And I ended up getting probably, I don't know, a B or B minus my paper, but I really learned something of how to apply that to my own work. And it's served me throughout my career. But what I think it might be interesting. What's the answer to that, though? I can't leave that. Is it faster or first? It's the object that's moving first. Interesting. Okay.

Yeah, primacy and recency. And also knowing that there's an intention behind that movement. That's the other thing. There's so much psychology and magic. It's really the foundation of why magic tricks work. So, for instance, if I say to you, my pocket is empty, you're not going to believe me, right? But if I reach into my pocket and take out a bunch of things that are inside there, then I don't even have to say anything.

And you just assume that the pocket is empty. Right? It's like it's just a kind of a reverse psychology. I don't have to say anything, but just by taking a bunch of junk out, like my wallet or my keys, throw them onto the table. Now you just assume, okay, the pocket's empty because he cleared it. Why would he leave anything else? Right.

So these are like little tricks that people don't often pay attention to if you're not in the field. However, what I wanted to tell you, and this is actually really, goes to what you mentioned about having a passion and then having separate work that would kind of support your work. So I lived in Japan for many years, and when I came back from Japan, I got work as an interpreter, translator, Japanese translator, translating Japanese documents, whether they were patents or legal contracts, all sorts of manuals written in Japanese, that I needed to translate into English for my clients.

And that was what allowed me. The money that I earned from that job allowed me to be able to putter around in a new city when I was living in New York without having very many gigs as a performer. And, you know, I think having that day job that supports your, perhaps your night show or night passion, you know, it was really important. And it's a really kind of a great strategy that works, not just for me, but for many people, having a steady stream of income. What you don't want to fall prey to is the complacency of saying, well, I guess this is how it's always going to be. I guess I'm always going to be a translator. And my passion for magic is going to be on the sideline.

You know, there's got to be a point where you say, you know, something, I've had enough. And now's the moment where I'm going to throw, I'm going to basically cut off all ties to my previous source of income and go all in. And for me, that time, it was a very stressful and scary time. I didn't want to work as an interpreter anymore. I wanted to purely do magic shows. That was my goal. But I remember my father called me up once. And he said, Steve, when's your next show?

and I said, it's not for another five months. And he said, okay, well, I guess you're going to have to get a real job. And those five or ten words, you have to get a real job, seven words, right? Those really triggered me. And I said, no, now I'm really going to push myself to make sure that I can get, I can make a foothold in New York City, the most competitive theater town in the world as a magician. And so that's when I decided to launch my show chamber magic.

It was when I knew that waiting for other people to hire me was folly. If I was going to wait for people to hire me to do a corporate gig or a social event or wherever it happened to be, I didn't want to have to be prey to their convenience. I wanted to take the driver's seat. And so I basically put up a shingle saying, I have my own show. Come to me, buy tickets from me and you can see me. That's creating a whole different paradigm, right? It's not saying I'm going to wait for, I'm not going to wait for people to raise their hands, say, hey, I want you to do a show.

Can you come to us? I said, no, no, no. If you want to see me, come to me. And that whole paradigm shift really changed my career. But having said that, it wasn't easy. Like in the very beginning, for the first two years, I was basically lying to my wife every week, telling her that we were breaking even when, in fact, we were losing money. Because I got a gig first at the National Arts Club, then I moved the show to the Walder

Fristoria through a personal connection I had there. And I was doing the show for just under two years. And I was making no headway. I mean, it was begging people to come to the show, begging them to beg their friends to come to the show. And after a while, you run out of friends, right? Your social influence isn't infinite, right? It just, you know, it's definitely finite.

So I was ready to throw in the towel. And then at one about maybe a year and 10 months into the show, I got very fortunate. This is before the internet was big. It's like, you know, we're still sending out postcards to people to try to get them to come. So it's like Stone Age. But I remember an editor from a website called, it wasn't even a website. It was like an email blast called Daily Candy, came to the show.

And she watched the show and loved it. And then she sent out an email blast to her list, which is probably like 200,000 people. And suddenly the show was sold out for a year. Wow. From one email blast. Wow. And it was just finding the right person who really. believed in me and wrote this two-paragraph little essay about it.

And then suddenly her followers were like zombies and did whatever we're told to do. And then a few months later than that, someone from CBS Sunday morning came, a producer and said, hey, we know, we think we want to film you. Would you be interested in being on our show? I was like, absolutely. This is a national exposure, national broadcast. So they came and they filmed the show. They put it on and within four days.

So there was the show aired on the Sunday. Within four days, we had sold around $600,000 worth of tickets. And by the end of the week, a million dollars with the tickets. Wow. And this is for a kid who grew up in, you know, in Westchester, some kid who does card tricks for a living, you know, suddenly has a million dollars in ticket sales in a week. And it blew my mind.

It was like watching the little dials on a slot machine spinning around as fast as that. the back end of the ticket sales web page, I could see the numbers just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. It was unreal to me. And then about six months later, they re-aired that segment on CBS Sunday morning and the same thing happened again,

another million dollars of ticket sales. Oh my gosh. And so now this show that I was, you know, basically, you know, lying to my wife and, like, you know, telling her that we were breaking even, was not only breaking even, it was actually bringing in some serious money. And over the course of the past 20 years, it's grossed over $25 million.

Oh, my gosh. That's, you know, a crazy happenstance, but it doesn't just happen. It didn't just happen. Like, none of this just kind of fell into my lap. It was a lot of, you know, strategic thinking. And one of my best friends is a guy named Mark Levy. Mark Levy is a business strategist. He's also a magician. All my friends somehow seem to be magicians.

So I probably get along really well with your brother. because he was a magician. You would. I don't know about, I don't know about you. Thank you. Thank you. I love about you, but, but anyway, so Mark Levy said to me, he said, look, you have to figure out a way to make yourself different from all the other magicians that are out there.

In other words, you have to differentiate yourself. And he happens to be a differentiation specialist. That's his expertise. Wow. Interesting. So he said, what is it that you do that makes you special? And I'm like, I don't know, I do card tricks and, you know, I do this great trick called think a drink where I can pour any drink that people have. last four. He goes, that's all great. People love those things. But what is it really that you're

about? What's different? And so he gave me a whole kind of a battery of questions. And again, this is about like 15 more or more years ago now. And he said, the thing, he said, the thing that I noticed is different about you is that you feel comfortable around wealth, around people who are extremely well to do. And he said, he said, essentially you're doing magic for the filthy rich. And I said, okay, well, I can never say that to people in public, right, because that would be turning plenty of people off, magic for the filthy rich. That seems absurd. But he said, but you're performing for millionaires and billionaires.

And I said, hey, stop it right there. There was an article that was published about me in this magazine called Avenue Magazine, Upper East Side type of magazine. And they called me the Millionaire's magician, just as like kind of a catchphrase in an article. And he said, stop right there. That's what you need to call yourself. The Millionaire is magician. I was like, no, no, no, that's so tacky.

If I call myself that, people, everyone's going to laugh at me. And so I told the idea to my parents, they said, don't do it. I told the idea to my wife, she said, don't do it. My kids at the time were too small, so they didn't say anything. But like, all my friends were like, don't do that. It was so stupid to call yourself, the millionaire's magician. And other magicians I spoke to were like, that is absurd. Just don't even touch that.

And then Mark said to me, he said, look, he says, who do you trust? He said, I've got a track record working with, you know, with really big. corporations and really big, you know, people in media fields, you know, do you trust my intuition? And I said, well, yeah, you know, you haven't served me wrong before. He says, print yourself some business cards. Start calling yourself the millionaire's magician. Your catchphrase can be entertainment for exclusive events. And he said, if you're not willing to give up a $2,000 gig, you'll never get the $20,000 gig. There's a huge marketing lesson right there. And that phrase is really stuck with me.

And what I learned from that was something, I learned this later, is there's something called Veblen Goods. And Veblen goods, it's named after an economist whose last name was Veblen. I figured his first name was like Antonio or something. But Veblen, he came up with the idea also of conspicuous consumption.

That was also one of his theories. But his idea was that a Veblen good is an item that the higher the price, the more desired it becomes. It's like any luxury. entry item. Sure. Philippe, Louis Vuitton, Cartier, Porsche, or Lamborghini.

The higher the price, the more people will want to own it or purchase it. And so that's counter to the typical economic curve of demand versus supply, right? So typically the price goes up and the demand will go down, only because there's some sort of, you know, an intersection. But with a Veblen good, the price goes up and then the demand continues to rise in league with that. You see? Of course. And so what Mark said to me and what I later learned is that if you are the high fruit on the tree, there will be people who will reach to pick it. And that's what I've basically modeled my whole career after. Now, of course, if you do choose that route, you have to

have a quality product, right? You can't be putting out something which is subpar. You can always trick someone into coming to your event once or buying something from you once. But if you remember when you came to Chambermagic, you know, I asked everyone, raise your hand, if you've been to the show before. And at every show, there's like five or six hands that go up out of an audience of 60 people. So 10% of the audience has been there before. And they're returning because they enjoy themselves and they want to bring other people with them. Right. So that's, that's what I'm trying to say is that, you know, you have to have a quality product so that when you start to increase your price, people don't start saying, what a rip-off. This guy's a total rip-off artist. If I was charging,

If I was charging $100,000 per ticket, people might say, okay, that was not worth the money. So you have to find what your tipping point is. But for me, I found that tipping point, having done the show now around over $6,000, close to 7,000 times. I figured out what the market is in New York City. And that's also based on the fact that New York is a theater town. So, you know, I know. People would pay for that. Right.

And I know that, like, you know, if you go to Hamilton, you're going to be spending $750 for a ticket. So there was a time when we were charging $750. for tickets to my show, which is pricey for a magic show, unquestionably, but there were always people who were paying it. Let me ask you this. So Vebel and Good, so many takeaways from what your business strategy was and how you got to where you are today. But if someone is coming out like a Bebebling Good, you have to have a good quality product. You had mentioned that for two years, you guys were actually losing money. So going into a strategy like that has this high risk because you have to first build the demand. And the one thing,

that I find interesting is if, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know this industry well, but just from the research I did, if you look at like a, I don't know, like a David Blaine or a David Copperfield or even like a Houdini, I think some of the strategies they deployed is they wanted to sell out like the biggest venues with the most tickets at the highest volume. And what you did was the exact opposite, right? You have a small, intimate show. So did you ever consider that this strategy was not the right strategy in those first two years when you couldn't didn't really fill the audience. And then my question to you is, right now you talked about price tickets changing based on Hamilton and stuff. I think now I looked in there in like about

$150 to like $350, $400 range at least. This current moment. So how did those prices change from when you first open your show? Okay. So when I first opened the show, the ticket price was I think, yeah, I remember now. It was $52 per ticket. And that was because I thought, you know, in a deck of playing cards, right? I've got a deck of cards right here. Every deck of cards has 52 cards, so I think I'll charge you a dollar per deck, a dollar per card. And that ended up being kind of stupid because nobody got the joke. And you're like, okay, $52, what the hell? This isn't working. It doesn't seem to make sense. So eventually, though, we raised the prices, you know, over time, it went to $60, $75, $85, $800. And, you know, hitting that $100 mark for me was

kind of momentous because I thought there was like going to be a mental barrier or a mental like a, you know, leap for people to spend over $100 for a magic show ticket. It hadn't been done before, like especially in New York City. And for such a small venue, like you mentioned, you know, it was almost absurd. And that's why people were curious. Like, wait a minute, what's this thing? We have to get dressed up. You get to go into the penthouse of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel, the fanciest hotel in town

on Park Avenue, and you get a chance to see close-up magic that's intimate, that sounds like it may be worth it. And so, you know, people, just something clicked. Now, you mentioned before about doing something in a larger venue for as many people as possible. See, in my mind, I always thought the opposite. I always thought, rather than getting a short-term career where I would sell out a bunch of arenas, let's say, in a short period of time, I wanted to make my show a 20-year gig. And that was always in my head from day one. I said, even if the first, first two years are difficult. This is going to be a 20-year gig. And that's what a lot of entrepreneurs do, too, is think of an exit. Like, when am I going to exit this? Maybe that's

a certain number. Maybe it's a certain period of time. But for me, it was a period of time. The number wasn't even, I had no idea where I could take this because it hadn't been done before. So, so I thought, okay, if I could, if I could make a career in New York City for 20 years at the end, I will be satisfied with myself. That will have been a career. we are well created or well, well lived. And so any show that I did along the way, even if it didn't make much money or if it was a failure or made mistakes, those in my mind were to be expected.

Not only did they not bother me or phase me, they were to be expected because I knew that eventually I'm going to get to that 20-year mark and by then I'd better be damn good, right? Because if you're doing anything for 20 years, you better be good or just, you know, get the hell out. So, you know, those small speed bumps never really, it was almost like a grain of sand in the beach, never really bothered me. And if there was a show where maybe there was an epic fail where a trick didn't work, or I made a joke that didn't land,

or people walked away saying, oh, that was horrible. Or maybe there was only 15 people in the audience or five people in the audience. Like that to me didn't matter. None of those things matter because I knew that my goal was not this individual show. This is just a stepping stone to my goal, which was the 20-year mark. God, I love the long-term planning. And again, that's something that any business owner and strategist could look at. I also think that one thing that's really cool is when you talked about the word of mouth

and creating a community experience, as you're telling this, I'm going back to my experience when I went to the show. And exactly right, like we wore our suits and we had ties on. And I remember having to tell people, people are like, I was like at a dinner after. I'm like, hey, guys, just so you know, we're going to be in full suits. And they're like, well, why? And well, we're going to this magic show. We're going to this magic show.

We've got to dress up for it. We're going to the Waldorf. If everyone is like, it's kind of catching, it's like, wait, what? So it's part of also this marketing, like anyone branding anything out there, when you create that like, wow, what factor, people just want to know more. They want to know more. One question I got to ask you, Steve, because we only got about five minutes or so with you, is I know that there was one point in your career, I believe it was early 2000s, where you had,

I think you had 200,000 in savings, you said, and then the 200,000 savings was diminished. And I know you had mentioned earlier when you made that 25 bucks, you had instantly reinvested in your business. So I was curious if you could touch on that moment where you almost quit. And also additionally to that, what are, like, that's something no one talks about. Like, what is the cost of these tricks, of being a magician, of who knows, the audio, the lighting. Like, what does that look like from a business perspective? Okay. So, you know, when my back was against the wall and I was, like I mentioned before, you know, losing money at every performance lying to my wife, which, by the way, is a really bad business strategy. Don't do it. Listener, do not

lie to your spouse or your loved one, you know, in order to, like, advance your own career is just a mistake. I always be honest. That's what I've learned over the course of being married for over 28 years now is really, you know, honesty is the best policy. But like I just had it in my head that no matter what I'm going to make this work. So that at my, at that point was back against the wall, I was just reaching for straws. You know, it makes you very resourceful. And, you know, you start to think out what they say outside the box. I hate that phrase. But you know, you start to think of other avenues that might be ways to get people in to see what you're trying to sell them. And so, again, remember, I was doing this before the internet.

So I was trying to, you know, contact people. I mentioned my postcards. I remember going through the New York City White Pages telephone book. This is how ancient I am. And I'm like Rip Van Winkle. So like I would go through the Steve Cohen section. My name is Steve Cohen. So I would go through the Steve Cohen section in the White Pages in New York.

city. And because it's such a common Jewish name, you know, there's so many Steve Cohen's, there literally were three and a half pages of people named Steve Cohen, Stephen Cohen, S. Cohen. There was just so many people with my name that what I did was I sent a postcard to every one of them. And these postcards said, come see the Steve Cohen magic show. And people were looking at these in the mail in their mailbox and looking at it saying, what the hell is a Steve Cohen magic show? And believe it or not, it worked. And I was, like I said, thinking outside the box, you know, I'd figure out a way to peak people's interests in something that they literally would have no otherwise have no interest in. And it was partially because of vanity,

right? Like they're looking at their own name on a postcard saying, well, is this guy also named Steve Cohen, like me? Or did he make this postcard just for me? Like, it was, there were so many questions. And then people would come to the show. And afterwards, they'd say, hey, you'll never guess my name. I'm like, well, I think I can't, you know, because that was the whole strategy. But that was one idea. Another idea was I figured out a way to send out email blasts because the email was still kind of a new thing at that time, the early 2000s. And email blast services were also pretty popular. So I figured out a theater targeted audience list and sent out advertisements basically. So you can get two for one or you can get a discount into like 30% off or whatever it was to get

people in the door. Because once I got them in the door, I could convert them. Right. That's when my whole system or my funnel would actually start to take place or take effect is because as long as I got them into the seats, get the bums in the seats that they say in England. You know, you get the bums and seats and then I can do my job and keep them coming back. But how much does it all cost? So you're asking about like expenses. You know, obviously since I'm working at a hotel, I've got a rental fee for the space that I'm using. And because I have long term commitments with the hotel. And I was at the Waldorf Astoria. Now I'm at the Lote New York Palace. And you came to the show at the Palace Hotel. It's on Madison and 50th Street. Absolutely beautiful 19th century mansion. I mean,

it's stunning. Like walking into Versailles. So that space has, you know, I have a long-term arrangement with the hotel. So we have a rental fee. I also have now a COVID specialist of someone who's basically dealing with checking people in at the front of the show who are dealing with, you know, COVID protocols, and that's something I never had to deal with before, right? Now, all theater events have to have someone who's checking people's vaccination cards, do temperature checks and questionnaires, and then I'll also have my own usher. So I've got my fixed expenses are my usher, my COVID protocol person. I have an assistant. I've got the ticketing company who I have to pay a percentage of ticket cost to, right? There's a percentage that they fake from each ticket

sold. I've got my publicist and then I've got the company that makes my website and my digital assets and also the social media team that helps me with my social media. So it's really like about seven, I might be missing one, maybe eight people that are also on my payroll. And these are people who, you know, are with me for a long time. I have some staff members that have been working with me for 15 years. Wow. And that means I take good care of them. You know, you don't get longevity would be treating people like, yeah, treating people like just the help. So these are people, they become members of my family. Right. But the one line item, and I know we're wrapping up here, but the one, the line item, I didn't hear you say was the trick. Like, is there a lot of money that

goes into the trick? Or is that mostly just from the magician's ingenuity and effort? Okay. Well, I mean, any trick will take time and money to create, right? So if I, for example, when I have something built, a special prop, I have to, I can't just go to Best Buy and ask for the park. It's just not where I works. The whole different world. Where you can't walk in, you know, walk into like, you know, Walgreens and say, okay, I need deep.

So, so, you know, these are all specially made items that I work with builders, like, you know, people who are in the industrial design, you know, businesses. And so some of these items are terribly expensive. Wow. But sometimes they're just prototypes and they never even make the stage. So I'll put in, let's say, $10,000 into an item that never gets. used, you know, or maybe it gets used once or maybe used a couple of times. So, so then I have to just try to keep on tweaking it and tweaking it. And it's, it's a whole long process. There's a time,

there are some tricks that I've worked on for two, three years before they're ready to be on stage. There are other things that because of, because of my skill set, you know, because again, I practice magic literally every day. I have a mirror right next to my computer. I'm practicing talking to you. I can be practicing over here with my sleight of hand skills that this, my my skill set will allow me to learn a trick pretty quickly. But if it's something that requires something to be built, that could be take time. And then the rehearsals that go into it, you know, it could go $10,000, $25,000 per trick, you know, depending on what the item is.

And then if you have someone like David Copperfield, who's a friend of mine, and, you know, we talk regularly, he's got items that are, he's been working on for years that will cost multiples of that. So, you know, I'm talking 10 to $25,000. these might cost $250,000. So these are items that, you know, you can't just, they're not just off the rack or off the shelf. They're tailor-made.

Custom-built tailor-made. All right, Steve, we are one minute over the time we have you for, but we have to end with two things, a trading secret and where people can go to your show and find you. So if you could wrap us up with one trading secret from your career navigation or financial lessons, anything that someone couldn't find in a textbook or Google learn in a classroom,

What would your trading secret be, Steve? Okay, so my secret is something I learned from my mentor. Her name is Holly Pepe. And Holly Pepe was and is a professor of poetry. She once said to me that poetry is not the most important thing in the world unless it is. And I took that to mean in my world, magic is not the most important thing in the world unless it is to me, right? And my passion then parlayes to the audience's pleasure because they realize that I'm really invested in this exchange that we're having.

It's not just me, you know, spewing something one way. It's really about the given get, give and take. So that's one thing I learned from Holly. But another thing that's perhaps even more pertinent to your listeners is she said, don't push the river. You have to let it flow. And this is a statement that apparently comes from an African proverb. And, you know, whenever you're starting a business, you want it to be successful right away, right?

you want to see some results for the efforts that you're putting into it. And I know from my personal experience, I started this show, Chambermetric, and I wanted to see it filled, like, in my mind, I knew that I could make this into a great success, but I wanted that to happen right now. And the real world doesn't work the way that you expect it to, right? So, you know, the world is a big place. And it takes a long time to reach the number of people

that gets a critical mass to know about what you're even offering before you can start to enjoy the spoils of, your labor. So what you said is don't push the river. You have to let it flow. And what that meant to me was to let this happen in real time and allow that be patient and persistent. And knowing that I have a 20 year timeline, don't get all worked up if it's not happening right away. Like look to the longer term and say, okay, it's not happening how as fast I thought I was going to, but it's still going to work if I don't give up. And that persistence plus the patient, really helped me in moderating my career.

Steve, those are two great ones. I like magic isn't the most important thing in the world unless it is. You're listening right now. Think about what you could substitute that magic for. What is that to you? And don't push the river. You have to let it flow. I love that because it aligns perfectly with you in your first two years,

not being a success, but 20 plus years later, you're doing four shows a week plus filling the place out, selling it out at prime time seating. So, Steve, this has been a pleasure. I could literally talk to you for hours. But unfortunately, we're going to cut this off just because we know we both have busy schedules. But Steve, where can people come see the show? Where can people find you? Where could people find your books? Give us all a little bit more, Steve Cohen. Where can we get it? Okay, sure. So the website is chambermagic.com. And that's the name of the show, chamber magic. It runs every week at the Lote, New York Palace. So, you know, I'm always

there. It's every weekend. If you do come, please make sure that you introduce yourself after the show. I'm very accessible. I'd be loved to hear that you came to the show after having listened to this interview. So that would be great. I have several books out, like you mentioned. The most recent one is the one that's sitting over your shoulder confronting magic. And that book is available on my website, also atchamagic.com. I'd be happy to autograph that to people if you're interested. And that's a book that's published by Asseline, which is one of the world's most prestige art book publishers. They deal with books, subjects such as Rolex and Ferraris and all the luxury items. But this is the first thing they've ever done a book about magic.

And the cover is made of silk. It's like really something else. Forward was written by Guillermo del Toro, the famous film director, because he's been to the show several times. Anyway, that's the thing I'm really proud of and I hope that people get a chance to read. But on the website, I've got a whole bunch of cool things that people would be interested in. And I make my own cards. These playing cards are cards that I designed along with Theory 11, which is a playing card design company.

So those are also available on my website and a bunch of other made a comic book made with artists who draw for Batman and also for Daredevil and Marvel and DC comics. So these artists are top of the line. So these are all things that are on the site. And I think people get a real kick out of it. If you have any interest in magic or if you have any friends who do. Absolutely. Chambermagic.com, guys.

I will talk about it in the recap, but my experience at the show was unbelievable, whether it is a date night, just going out with friends. It's really a night you'll never forget and you'll refer too often. So, Steve, thank you so much for giving us your time here. Giving us a few of your trading secrets. Of course, not your total secrets. And we will respect that. But guys, go check out Steve Cohen, chambermagic.com. And Steve, thank you so much for being here with us today.

Absolutely. If you get me really drunk, then I might trade a few more secrets. Next time, we got something to look forward to. I love it. Awesome. Thank you, Steve. We appreciate it. Ding, ding, ding, ding.

We are closing in the bell. And we have a little bit of change of pace with this closing recap. Because not only do we have the curious Canadian himself, but we have the luxury of having my brother, Stephen Tardick, you might remember him, season 14 of The Bachelorette hometowns, absolutely stole the show and stole the trending on Twitter. That was supposed to be my home. hometown, but Stephen took over. As I mentioned in the interview, Stephen was a magician growing up.

So his perspective is one we want to catch on this recap. So David, I usually kick it to you, but Stephen, I'm going to kick it to you first. Thank you for being here. And you had mentioned that you actually had worked with Steve Cohen in the past. Yeah, I work in, I work in theater advertising in New York. And at an old job, Steve came to us for work on his website. So I redesigned his website at this point about six years ago. And yeah, really loved working within that. That's awesome. And so when he came about, so our talent booker, Evan Sarr, actually brought him to my attention. And I said, you know, I haven't heard of him, but I will get a good review for my brother. So I asked Steve, asked you what you thought of him and you raved about him. You're

like, it's unbelievable. When you walk into his show, it looks like you're in this mansion. There's no other magician like him. So you knowing being a fan of the Magic Game and actually being a magician. That's how my brother, by the way, earned his living in high school, doing magic shows. What's your take on him as an overall magician and kind of like his model when you look at the whole industry as a like is a whole? Yeah, I mean, Steve is a, he's an icon in the industry for completely doing things his own way and making it work. I mean, you talked about this a bit, but he didn't follow any of the manuals on what a successful magic career looks like. You know, he doesn't have a trunk of red and yellow and blue props that he drags

from children's birthday party to children's birthday party. And he's also not filling up arenas or Las Vegas hotels with giant illusions. So he's carved his own path and, you know, he's found a lot of success with it. And he's very well respected in the magic community for it. And also the theater community, you know, he mentions, like, he is a mainstay in New York. performing arts. And he's very respected in both spaces. Yeah, but one thing I'm curious, like you, so you have ownership in a digital media and social media and marketing agency, right?

So every day you are working to create impressions at a greater mass so that people will inevitably come see a Broadway show. He talks about it in this podcast, word of mouth. I mean, to me, it's impressive he's been able to do it, but it also transparently. seems a little dated. I mean, like, what's your take on the way that he's used word of mouth to grow? But it works. He's been doing it for 20 years. So clearly it works. Look, if you were in an ad meeting 40 years ago, everyone would say, what sells tickets? Word of mouth. Like, word of mouth is the thing that is, it's the most potent and valuable tool you have when you're selling anything.

And anyone who tells you that advertising is more important than word of mouth has lost their mind. Like, Someone tries something out, they like it, they want to tell other people about it. That is what is going to tick you into giving someone else money faster than anything else. It's challenging to rely on word of mouth only on scale, right? That's the problem. Like if you have to sell out 2,000 tickets a night, it's hard to just hope everyone will chatter about it, where when you're selling a smaller number, you know, 100, there's a different. there's a different vibe.

And the other key thing, and you guys got to this, but like word of mouth requires something to be truly unique. Otherwise, you know, I don't talk about my toothpaste. I like my toothpaste. If you ask me what toothpaste you should use, I'll tell you. But like, I'm not running around talking about it, where having to put on a suit and go to this like bizarre, fancy suite in a, you know, chic hotel.

It's different. It's strange in a good way. So it gives him the stickiness for word of mouth. What kind of toothpaste do you use? I use the quips toothpaste. Okay. Now that we know that. David, now I want you to imagine this, right?

So that's a good point, right? When you have such an outlying experience, word of mouth obviously is more contagious. And that goes for anybody out there that's starting a business or trying to make impression what they're doing. But so, Stephen, there's this trick. You know this trick. What's it called with the, what is it called? Think a drink.

Think a drink. Okay. So what happens, David, is everyone goes around the room and you have to write any drink you can imagine on a little ticket. You can write ice hot coffee. You could write gin martini. You could write strawberry Kool-Aid. And it goes in this means of mixing it. And then Stephen, what happens from there, right? He randomly picks it. Like, you can describe this trick better than me. Explain this trick to Dave. He has ever run in the audience think of a drink. He then selects people from the audience. He's holding a kettle. the whole time. He asks people, you know, what drink is on your mind? And someone says a martini and he says, oh, a gin martini or a vodka martini. They say vodka. And he says do olives or with a twist? And they say with the twist. And he grabs a shot glass and he just pours his kettle and out comes a gin martini with a lemon flavoring. And then the next drink is hot cocoa and the next drink is is high sea. Like, it is mind-blowing, all with the kettle in view view, no funny business, just poor, poor, poor. It's, and he did, in our group, he did Machiato and literally said to the

person, iced or not iced, and we knew who the person was, so we knew it wasn't a plant, and they got it right. So, first of all, David, what's like your, when you see that, when you hear that, and he does it over and over, do you have any questions for the magician himself? I mean, you could only imagine me watching magic. and my reactions like I am jaw on the floor can't believe it won't believe it on spending 10 hours researching how he how the person does that um so I I love magic I'm I am like 101 magic feed it to me I will always be entertained I'm curious like Stephen you've been doing it for a long time when you go to a magic show what percent of tricks and you know it's going to vary depending

on the magician but are you what percent are you like I know how you did that or, oh, I've seen this one. And what percent are you like? I'm blown away. There are principles of magic that are true and used across the board. And regardless of the specific methodology, the principles remain the same. And when I watch a magic show, I'm very aware of some of these principles. Like, how is this person in front of me misdirecting?

I'm like, oh, you want me to look over here? or how is this person leading me to a decision? So I often know the principles. That's, and oftentimes the actual technique, the specific skill, half the time I know it, half the time I don't. But when I watch a magic show, I try as much as I can to turn that part of my brain off

and like go with the flow. Magic is just a lot more fun when you are riding the wave and you're going along with it as opposed that the thing magicians are always looking for in the audience are the people who are, you know, squinting and looking, they're trying to catch the magician in the moment. Because those are bad audience members, you know?

They're not having fun. They're like working and it sort of takes down the fun for everybody else. Okay, so let me ask you this though, right? So if you go to a Broadway show, there are certain actors and actresses who have a certain differentiating factor. maybe they're the best dancer to ever be on Broadway. Maybe they're the best singer. Let's talk athletics, right? You have some of the best golfers because you could see a Bryson D. Shambau who I don't expect you to know, Stephen, but he could hit the ball longer than any, right?

So that's his differentiating skill set. In the world of magic, when you see think a drink, even though you know the underlying principles, is that a trick that you think most professional magic magicians can completely figure, like do on their own? Or would you say that is a specific differentiator like Bryson to driving the ball longer than anybody, Steve, to a magic trick. That is an iconic effect that there might be other magicians performing that, but that is Steve's effect, and he does it better than anybody else. And, you know, there were very few magicians that get to own a trick like that. He's one of them. So that is a high, so that's him. That's goat material. That's his jam. Okay. Now tell me about the whole idea of this. He mentioned a lot

about Harry Lorraine, who helped him with the memory training. And then he talked a lot about how magic is a lot of psychology. And I think in almost all aspects of life, psychology or the study of psychology can come back to the world. And once you're operating, you can talk about politics. You can look at debates, how they use psychology and their physical and their mental and their verbal exchanges. Psychology and business and selling. And interviewing so many aspects. For you, when you heard him talk about Harry Lorraine and when you were a magician growing up, what are some other takeaways? What are some other psychology tricks and tips that you used? Like he had mentioned the one about like an object that's moving

first. If it's moved with the right intention, you will follow that. Were there any other like methods or principles you use that maybe you use in your business world today? Well, you two were talking about the psychology around using people's names and remembering people's names, I think it's worth diving into what's at the heart of that, which is connecting with a person, right? Because the minute you feel respected by this person and you feel like they're on your team, you're immediately rooting for them, right? Like you want this person, you want this person to succeed and do you want to help them succeed? And if you think about that, like what is more helpful for a magician than having somebody who's on their side. And who's also, when you're skeptical of

somebody, your shoulders are up. You're, you know, you're being really discriminating about every last thing. You're grilling them. The minute you're connecting with someone, you relax. And all of a sudden, you let your guard down a little bit. And you're, you know, you're more engaging with their eyes. You know, you're making contact with their eyes. And when they talk to you and they're looking at you, you're looking at them. And there is nothing a magician. likes more than when you are locked here and not over here or over there, you know? So I think that the psychology of connection is true for magic. Honestly, it's as true for like my day job of designing posters for Broadway shows when I'm pitching what a logo should be. That's in connection

is how I get to the finish line there as well. So we talked a little bit about the psychology. We talked about the naming stuff. And this is Steve Cohen's show, obviously. but then I start thinking about guys like David Blaine who have done just incredible features out there. You would know these again better than me, I'm curious, but the one where he was like in New York Times Square in like a tomb for three days and he does these extravagant events.

How do you compare like a David Blaine to a Steve Cohen and is David Blaine stuff more just like mental physical wherewithal or is that would you consider magic too? Steve Cohen is a classic parlor magician and that's a phrase for a magician who performed standing up in front of a small gathering of people. So part of the joy of his show is just how vintage and classic it is. He's wearing a tux.

If you were to see a magic show in 1890, it would feel a lot like seeing Steve Cohen's show in 2021. David Blaine is doing a whole different thing. Okay. You know, David Blaine, especially in his current career, has really shifted to these, like, feats that actually don't feel magical. You know, I'll stand on a pole for a day or get frozen or go underwater, and they're physical feats. You know, I think something that's good for everyone to keep in mind is anytime you're seeing somebody do something that purports to be purely physical, or purely that seems otherworldly or sort of impossible

and they have any sort of connection to magic. There might be some hybrid material coming through. And this really comes through with mentalism, which is often associated with magic too. There are mentalists. You know, magic goes under many different languages. So in several, I mean, is magic just marketing and entertainment? Well, I mean, magic is the fun.

thing for anyone who is looking for a hobby. Magic is an amazing hobby because it has part of its performance, which is fun. Part of it is technical skills. I mean, you might recall me with a deck of cards for hours and hours and hours trying to do one tiny little move and spending weeks so that a tiny thing was invisible. And then part of it is invention. And it's taking all of these technical skills, taking the performance and merging them to create something altogether new. So it really covers invention, performance, and technique. And so, yeah, magicians kind of can fall into any of those buckets. For my old boss, I was at his hedge fund's holiday party, and they had a magician. And this guy was the definition of electric. And he had our, like, attention captivated for way

too long. And he started doing these tricks that were, that he was able to tie in our cell phones. So have you ever heard of magic like that? And it was the most big. bizarre thing ever. It's funny. Magicians have a strange relationship to technology because a lot of technology

is magical as far as how it impacts our lives. So if I have a device in my pocket that can give me any piece of information ever, it requires, it sort of can demystify things. Nowadays, people are starting

to think about how to do magic that involves technology, like, you know, can I predict your passcode on your phone, for instance? There's like new tricks in that space. But it's a new frontier for magicians in just like, how do you, how do you mystify, you know, when so much is possible? It was a wildest thing ever. He was like telling me what photos were what on my phone and like things that I, it was bizarre. But Steve Cohen actually did that in the audience. He guessed someone. one's passcode, put their passcode in and open their phone. Steve, Steve, we have three minutes with you. And David, I'm going to have you hang on because I want to tell you a little bit

more about it. But with the three minutes we got, I know you talked about magic being a hobby. One thing I just don't have any clue about is like, what is the propensity of someone actually taking this hobby and making it a career? So for you, when you were in high school, I always remember at that age, like you were making a ton of money. What were you getting paid to do like a show in high school. And at any point, was there a potential professional career for you? Yeah, I was doing three to five shows a weekend. So you could do like a Friday night, two Saturday, two Sunday. I was doing birthday parties, bar mitzvahs and weddings. And then I worked at six flags, Dary and Lake, back when it was just Derry and like doing walk around magic. So cards and

coins up close. I was making around $125 a show. which was about, the shows were 45 minutes, but add in an hour and a half of travel. So it was not, you know, it wasn't going to send me through college, but it was, you know, it beat working at the mall. And there are tons of professional magicians who have, nowadays, I will say,

this was in the early aughts in late 90s, you know, magic shows can get really pricey. And you can, you know, pay thousands of dollars, especially you mentioned a business retreat, David, like corporate magic is its own realm. And those guys and girls get, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars and they're flown to amazing resorts and they, you know, get all expense paid trips. So there is a lucrative side to it. There's a lot of hustlers who are working, people you've never heard of, who aren't really trying to be mainstream or public in the way

that Steve is with his publicly facing show that are, you know, making six figures a year. 125 bucks for 45 minutes at 16 and 1999, 2000. Not a bad gig. All right, Steve, before we let you go, any, from your perspective, like a trading secret or just a general thought or inspiration on magic as a whole before we let you go. Let me see. I will say that, yeah, okay, I'm going to, here's my trading secret. There is a magic principle called one-ahead, which is anytime you can be one step ahead of your audience, you are on great footing. And that one-ahead principle is one that I use in my day job all the time. So if you've planted a seed with a potential client about, you know, what their campaign has to be, and you've gotten it in their brain, I'm talking about marketing, what their

logo needs to look like or what, you know, what it must have, if you can get that in their brain three weeks before you have the meeting, and then you wait for them to sort of internalize it and make it their own idea. And then you show up to the meeting and you present them with something that at that point they think is, is their own thought. You're one step ahead and you are, you know, you've already won. One step ahead. You've already won. I love the idea. You're already one step ahead because it's 635 and you're five minutes late to a meeting. So Stephen, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate your insight. Curious Canadian, hang tight with me and I want to get your thoughts on everything Stephen said. Love it. Great chatting y'all.

Thanks, Steve. Thank you. Bye. All right. So it was fun to get the perspective of magician. David, I know I was moving fast there because that man is a busy man. To get 20 minutes of his time is not so easy. So tell me everything he said and anything that you thought Steve said that you want to further discuss. It was nice to have my favorite Tarduk on the show. Pretty standard across the board. You know what? It must have been a magic trick played on me because when I saw Stephen Cohen, I thought we were getting the owner of the New York Mets on, the multi-billionaire whose business partners with Mark Lauren A-Rod. And so when I saw, when I logged on to watch the video and I saw Stephen Cohen, just this old magician right there, I was like, that's a magic trick. I was

expecting someone different. That's so funny. I mean, it's incredible, man. It's incredible, man. It's magic. I think, you know, I think just the essence of what the career is, you know, we have wealthy people in this world or successful people in this world that we can actually put a tangible act on what they do, right? A hedge fund manager, trade stocks, a CEO of this company, you know, X, Y, Z of Tesla. They make motorized vehicles. And a magic, a magician, a professional magician, we have no fucking clue what they do. They just perform magic and blow your mind and you'll never understand how they do it. And I think, just the essence of that. It's just so unique that I'm surprised it's not marketed more because

it is just such an absolute mind fuck in the best way ever. And it's always, always, always going to be entertaining. I don't care who you are. That's the thing, dude. You're not, it's not even about magic. It's just strictly entertainment. And again, that's kind of the cool thing about this show. We tap industries and places that people aren't tapping and talk about industries in massive careers that people aren't talking about. And this is a guy, again, who just pursued his passion. He knew what he loved. He found a business about it. David, when you go there, part of the thing they say, and I talked about this interview, you have to wear a tuxedo. So I want you to, like, paint this picture. Like, you go on like a date night or you go with friends. We were all dressed up. It's like

fun to get dressed up. And you go up these, like, glorious steps in this beautiful hotel. And his room is just prestige. And like my brother said, super classy and classical. And then you're, you're entertained for two hours. And whether it's a date or a friend night, it's an experience. that you constantly talk about. And guess what happened after? What happened after? We all went for drinks. None of our buddies were dressed up.

They're like, where were you? We told them all about it. We're talking about it. It's just like marketing and entertainment. It's finest and the guy is just a true professional. It's just, you said that you hit the nail on the head, like experience. Like any good, like Hawk just asked us for restaurants in New York City. Like, I just think of all the ones that gave me the best experience.

Not necessarily about the food. It's the experience. Like, why are people obsessed with Disney? It's like the Disney experience. Like, it's really. interesting. You know, he kind of took a risk and hit the nail on the head. So now, I think that you have an opportunity for speaking of experiences for some of our listeners in the holiday spirit to be able to attend this experience for free and win two tickets to one of his shows. Is that

correct? Am I right? That is correct. So I mentioned it in the intro. I'm going to mention it one more time in case anybody forgot. But tickets to his shows, like he said, are usually in that three to 500 piece for one ticket. We're giving away two tickets here. So two tickets in New York City up to a year to go watch him live. What do you have to do? You have to make sure that you're subscribed to trading secrets to enter. You have to give us a five-star review, and you have to actually write a review. You can write anything, like literally great magic show and a great show with Steve, anything you want, but you have to put your Instagram handle. This is going to be open for one week. You got to make sure that you follow the home of trading secrets on Instagram, which is

restart underscore reset, and we just open the Trading Secrets Facebook group, which is free to join. So you've got to follow that, give us five stars, write a review, follow restart, and within a week, we are giving away two tickets. You will get a DM personally from me, and that's a thousand dollar retail value to go see this entertainment. Can we announce it on Christmas? We can announce it. Yeah. Let me just look at the timeline here. Hang on. I'm not great with dates. This show comes out the sixth. We're going to have to announce it within, uh, let's say, we'll say within two weeks, within two weeks before December 20th. So if you're hearing this after December 20th, I'm sorry, but before December 20th, five star, write your review, put your Instagram handle, go to the Facebook trading

Secrets page, join us, follow Restart Reset, and you will have the opportunity to win two tickets. And the last thing that I'm going to plug for us here, he said, if we can get him drunk, he'll share us more secrets. If you, the listeners, want to get drunk with us, you can join us on December 16th for our restart live happy hour. Am I right on those details, Jay? You are right on that. All Access members. It's only nine bucks to join. You can come to every single event, every podcast. We have a day trader to give you day trading tips. It's literally $9 a month. That's less than your cup of coffee, probably two cups of coffee a week for the month. So we have a happy hour, David and I. What is it? It's a living room talk. It's these

recasts. We talk about everything. Finance, careers, life stuff. Last time we got into, if you're stuck in an elevator for two hours, who would it be with? And the crowd participates, it's fun. That's December 16th at 630. David, that was a smooth. transition. You're getting too good. I'm getting good at this, you know. Very good. All right. Anything before we close the bell? No. Love that. Another great episode. We're close to we're close to one million downloads. We can't do it.

Word about that advertising. Everybody. Tell your friends. Tell your mom, tell your grandma, tell your sister, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, tell everybody. We are just about 30,000 downloads from one million downloads. Please continue to subscribe, tag restart, reset on Instagram, tag me on Instagram, tag David on Instagram. David, what's your handle? David underscore Ardwyn. No, at David Ardwin. At David Ardwin. A-R-D-U-I-N. All right. We're getting out of control with this recap. So we're going to close it up before we go another hour. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Trading Secrets. One, we hope that you could not afford to miss. We will see you next Monday.

Making that money and money, living that dream. Making that money, money, money, pay on me. Making that money and money, living that dream.