Trading Secrets - 302. Michael Allio & Jade Chapman on Love After Loss, Building Businesses & Betting on Yourself

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

On this episode of Trading Secrets, Jason Tartick sits down with one of social media’s most emotionally honest couples — Michael Allio and Jade Marie Chapman.Michael opens up about his deeply personal new book, Where the Wild Heart Grows, inspired by conversations with his son James about grief, healing, and life’s hardest transitions after losing his wife Laura. Together, Michael and Jade share how friendship became love, why they left the Hollywood lifestyle behind for a quieter life in Akron, and what it’s really like building a blended family rooted in honesty, growth, and emotional intelligence.The conversation also dives into business and entrepreneurship as Jade shares the journey behind building her skincare company from scratch, while Michael gives an update on St. James Therapeutics and the groundbreaking clinical trial results that could help cancer patients manage painful chemotherapy side effects.Plus, the couple talks Bachelor Nation, public relationships, money habits, investing, future marriage plans, and the biggest “trading secrets” they’ve learned about life, love, and betting on yourself.

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by one of the most emotionally honest couples on social media, Michael Aid and Jade Marie Chapman. Michael first became known to audiences through The Bachelorette and Bachelor in Paradise, which you guys know. But over the years, people connected with something much deeper. His openness around grief, fatherhood, healing, and rebuilding life after unimaginable loss. Now alongside Jay, the two are building a relationship rooted intentionality. transparency and family. Michael's newest project. Where the wild heart grows began is something deeply personal. Stories created to help his son James better understand emotions, change,

and life's difficult moments. What started as a gift for his son evolved into what Michael calls a modern heirloom for families everywhere. Michael and Jade, welcome to trading secrets. Thanks for having us, buddy. Good to see you. And it's finally nice in person to meet. I know we've talk to, FaceTime, all this stuff, but like, it is so nice to meet you in person. Truly it is. How is the book tour? Would you call this a book press tour? Yeah, I think there's going to be multiple stages, but spent the whole weekend in New York

just seeing old friends and doing podcasts and news. And it's so much fun to talk about because I've been working on this thing for years. And then it's like now your baby's out into the world. So you just share it and then you cross your fingers and hope it lands in the right hands. I feel like it's been a little bit of a second since you've kind of done. the whole podcast and press run. Is it fair to say? You've taken a little time off to do your thing?

Well, I mean, we are building seriously the most beautiful life. I love what we got going on at home. And so it's nice to get out of the house without a doubt. You've caged me up, dude. I mean, in Akron, by the way. Inaccurate.

You just snashed me up out of like the L.A. social life. Yeah. Now it's just much more calm. It's like the movie misery, you know, and just keep her locked in there and she doesn't get to leave. So you guys started dating, I think it was like in 2023. About two years ago? Yeah.

About 2024? Yeah, we went each other for like five years, though. I met him in like 2020. Sure. And then we got together as a couple, yeah, two and a half years ago. Yeah. About two and a half years ago. And then you made the move to Akron, what?

It's about a year and a half ago. And how that's the question. Everyone's got to know. How are you going from Hollywood to Akron? How is it bad? I was in Hollywood for 10 years. But honestly, I think I was ready to leave because I was a little bit tainted by it. I was just like, okay, I'm like done with this city life.

So when he came around, I was like, okay. And it was no question. I think a lot of people are surprised how much I like it. But we literally live in the middle of a national forest. That's awesome. You walk outside and it feels like Narnia. So cool. Drop the kayak in, go down.

I mean, it's just nice and peaceful after just a long, decade of running around. I love it. And so from Hollywood to Akron and our life is going great, what do you think it is that makes the relationship work out so well? Our connection. Yeah. It's just like, it's always there no matter what. Through all the ups and downs, we always come back together stronger. And it's just easy. I think because we have such a deep-rooted friendship and that's really how it started. Like that's got to be our North Star. Yeah. And I love it. Even the theme of your book, right? So where the wild heart grows, it does connect even this storytelling. And your two's both what you two have gone through in the past. We all have a history of heartbreaks and relationships

that don't work out that lead us to where we are today, which I think is a beautiful thing. When you guys went through the process of like, you know, it's a crazy thing that we have to do, but it's also the reality of publicly announcing your relationship. Was that something given relationship history that you guys looked into long and hard about? Was it something you were reluctant to do. Oh, yeah. It was something you felt like you needed to do. Like, how did you address that?

I think that we were very protective at it. Yeah. Yeah. I've done that in the past as well. I'm not in the Bachelor franchise, but I've been online for 15 years, like when the Instagram started. Oh, gee. Being married. Very OG.

And then going through different relationships, I think you were the first one that I posted in years. Yeah. So. Yeah. And as you know, anybody that does it, it's like you want to share your, you know, your life with people online and you help build communities. And it's a really beautiful thing to show that authenticity.

But you also have to understand it comes with risks. Scrutiny. Scrutiny. And I know you know, man. And so like we were wondering back and forth, but there was something very freeing about just, you know, letting our relationship shine that we don't regret whatsoever. And truth is, is like, there's no going back.

And I love this so much because this, woman, I am telling you, she, I started saying this, she is the love of my second life. Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah. Well, it's like, it's like life was life for me. It's, it's, it's, it's these different chapters. And there's so much moving forward and so much joy ahead, not just that we're experiencing now, but all of these firsts we're doing. Like raising James together. It's your first time doing that with anyone. With anybody. With anybody. With anybody. because he was so young. Yeah.

Like now that he's more developed, I mean, he's almost 10, you know? And this is a, he's a full-blown human with thoughts and emotions and everything. It is a first. Yeah, yeah. And so when she moved here from L.A., she's like, what's the blueprint? Give me the manual for what I'm walking into. I'm like, I have no idea. He literally threw me into it, dude.

No, I didn't, I don't have the manual. I don't think anybody has the manual because it was the first for me. so it's like, I'm not an expert. You can only write it by experiencing it. And all of these things were first. And, you know, there is growing pains. Anybody who has a blended family, whether that's divorce or whether it's being widowed, anything,

when you're bringing all these personalities and experiences together, there's a lot to manage. And we have spent the time in the right places. And now we're just reaping the benefits of a good connection with our whole entire household. And that's one thing. You had to make a lot of transition because you made a transition professionally, right?

I mean, you still do what you do, but in L.A. and in Hollywood. Yeah, you closed your spot or go to Akron. But you're also making a big personal adjustment into moving to Akron and Michael A's family. Talk to me about what from your past has allowed you to be able to be so resilient

to make such a big change, both professionally and personally. Love. I will do anything for true love. And like, because our connection was so strong, like in my gut, I instantly knew he was the one. Even though we were friends for so long and I was in different relationships, our timeline finally collided where we both were available to navigate or explore that. And so it was really easy for me to make the decision to do that because that is like my dream in life. and it always has been to find my person.

And I know that that's him. So it was an easy. This is beautiful start to a podcast. I feel like, this is unbelievable. No problem crying right now. Seriously. Obviously, it's sad to leave that life behind. Sure.

But I feel like I've made a more meaningful life in Akron. Because it's rooted in like community. And this guy's family is unreal. I'm not just getting one person. I'm getting a mini him and then an entire family that is just rooted in so much love. It's beautiful.

I hit the jackpot. Yeah, it sounds like you guys both hit the jackpot. Yes, we did. And, you know, even again, tying in your book, which is a big theme today is like where the wild heart grows. I think something I was thinking about

that truly kind of makes me sick is that I think society and maybe you've seen it here or there, maybe you haven't, but they're often uncomfortable with this idea that you can carry such deep love for someone who's no longer with us while still having such love for someone who is with us. And I'm curious just how both of you two have navigated those waters of making sure that you're

staying true to you and maybe ignoring the noise of people that get uncomfortable with this idea. Yeah. And you and I even talked about this when you were on back a couple years ago. Yeah, right, right. And I think everybody will eventually arrive at the fact that like two things are true at the same time. duality of life. You can hold a space and sadness for something you lost and also immense hope for something that you have. I mean, are we ever completely happy during the day? It's like, no, you're stressed, you're running around, you're laughing, you're upset. But that's still a happy

life. And those two things have, the duality part, has allowed me to really appreciate the moments a lot more because life is, life is very fleeting. And when you're looking for what makes you happy, it's really about what don't you want to regret later? Not what makes you happy now? But what are the things that you know at the end of the road that you're going to regret and build your life that way? Because it's a lot simpler. And we're building that. I always thought this second chapter would be a compromise.

How would I not be able to know that? I thought the second love was going to be something that was comfortable. but not Laura. And this, you fulfill me in every which way. Because I'm a different person now. I require so many different things. And we're growing together at such a beautiful pace and there's still so much ahead.

And I think it's beautiful how you can honor the past with just such lightness while being in the present. And she does such a good job of it too with James. I mean, James wants to know his mom and she holds space for that. Yeah. He's always been able to do that. And I think, I mean, the reason why I even found Michael was he was talking about Laura on the TV.

My sister was with me watching it. And I just passed by. And I was like, if I can find a man that loves me the way this man loves this woman, I will be so happy. So I've always been super inspired by the way that he loves her. And how amazing is it that you get to have two great love stories? It's amazing. A lot of people don't get them. and how appreciative I am of you to be able to allow me that space,

to be able to do all of that. And I can't be your hype person anymore. This woman literally got dropped into Akron. Before I knew it, she had tons of friends. She is ingrained in my family. James runs in the front door and he's like, where's Jay just runs right past me? Like I haven't been wiping his ass for the last seven years.

years, man. Come on, dude. But I love it because that's when you moved. I said, that's when I know everything will be good is when James doesn't run to me. I still have the screenshot of you saying that. Yeah. I saved it. Oh my gosh. I said that's that's that's when I'll know everything is is right. It won't be a feeling. It'll be a clear action where he runs to her. And that doesn't hurt my feelings at all. that gives him a chance to live a very normal, happy life as a kid. And how, like, you're asking, how long does that take to kind of build that connection? I mean, James and I have always had a connection. Yeah.

When we were doing long distance. And I met him, what, when he was like four or five? Yeah, you met him when he was four. And I remember, you were like, I have an event. Can you babysit him? And I was like, dude. I did. I did.

Looking back, I mean, that's so horrible. I just met him, but I was like, okay, dude. But I trust you. I ran the fire. Oh my God. It made sense at the time. That's true. Your gut was speaking to you.

It really is. It really was. But I've never stopped trying to keep that connection alive because it matters so much to me. And my goal was never to have the label of being his mom or a stepmom. It was being his best friend and someone that he could come to and someone that he could tell things to. And you told me this, that I'll come to you and I'll come to you. say things that he said and you're like he's never told me that. Oh yeah. Yeah, because I want, I want him to be able to feel open enough because sometimes he's not going to say, I mean, how many

times have we told to our parents everything? Never. You know? So being kind of that outside perspective and extra ear. Yeah, just getting comfortable with him. I mean, he's my bro. Oh, yeah. They bro hard. He comes in. He comes in. He's like, hey, bro, hard, bro. He's not even joking. He'll come in and be like, broke it up. Yeah. Dude. I know. Give me five more minutes. And what, what is, what is. the funniest things, Jason, is like, you go on Jade's Instagram, and it's beautifully feminine, right? You look in our house, and she is WWF in this thing. You know, they are wrestling, and she is one of the guys. And you definitely need your women times sometimes, but you can adapt and you have in such an awesome way.

Yeah, I grew up with boys. I'm by the beach in San Diego, so I do feel like I'm a tomboy at heart. You are. As you guys are talking, all I want to do is ask you questions about the future and what's going to come. I'm going to get to that. I can't do that yet because I also want to start with what has happened. And I think that also alludes to your book too. So before I kick it to you in your book, Jade, tell me a little bit about you said before that you were married.

So what would you say are things for me like every relationship there's such appreciation for because without those relationships, I wouldn't have been able to be the person I am today. I wouldn't have been able to learn from things and try and look in the mirror and do things differently. from previous relationships or even being in a marriage, what would you say are some of the biggest lessons that you've learned that it's carried forward to you now finding this pure state of bliss that you're in in a relationship? That's a very good question. Because my perspective is now that I look back,

everything really was leading me to this. All the challenges, everything that I've gone through, they're not mistakes. They're not in a negative, I don't hold them in a negative space anymore. because I feel like they truly built me. Like even getting married and divorced, I really punished myself for a really long time

making the decision to get divorced. But I feel like being married taught me so much. And I remember, like, 10 years ago when that happened, I always said, I will only end up with someone that's either been married before and divorced or a widow. I said that 10 years ago. No way.

And now when I look back at it, I really like to be with someone that has experience. Someone that's gone through life because I have lifed. I've lived many lives. Oh, you have. And I think looking at each relationship as like a lesson and also even not they were wrong or I was wrong, but what do they teach me? Because everything is a lesson. So I look back often just to appreciate where I am now. In the many lives that you've lived, which chapter that life has made the biggest impact to where you are now? Oh, wow. I definitely would say right after I got divorced because when I left, I mean, I had already built my career up very large. I moved from San Diego

to Utah to be with him. He was Mormon. I grew up Mormon. And so when I went there, I literally created my first business called Kissable Complexions. Basically, I was like a one-stop shop for brides, events for them to come to me and I would do airbrush, makeup, artistry, skincare, all of it. Wow. And I started becoming an entrepreneur at a super young age because my dad was one. He always taught us to do that. But I would say right after I got to force, I left with less than $1,000 to my name. And I had built my business up large.

But I did not want to go through the stress or just the fighting of fighting over money. and I went to Hollywood with barely anything. Yeah, she asked for nothing in the divorce. Nothing. I walked away. Good for you. Now I, here I am. And I'm going to hype her up even more because, I mean, just imagine.

It's like you look at her online and it's like she has this very successful career. A lot of people think you just land on it. But that's a frightening moment in someone's life when your life gets flipped upside down. You move to Hollywood. You bet on yourself. and she has been able to build up a successful skin care line, an amazing spa. Like you in your field, I mean, I've seen people stop you. And I think they're coming up to me because of the bachelor.

And they're like, I've been following you for 15 years. Like you did all this. She's the pros pro. She's everybody's professional's favorite professional. Wow. Yeah, she's up in that top. No, you are. You are.

I'm telling you, it's incredible to watch. Well, I think the strength, especially at that age, you know, not that age should connect to strength, but it's experience which you talked about, the strength to be in a position where you move to Utah, you're married, you're in it, and to say, like, I'm going to choose me, even though choosing me is going to be the hardest thing

I ever have to do. Like, there's so much courage in that decision. And obviously you've done it with your businesses too. So it's the strength to start over, over and over and over again, until you are fulfilled, whatever that may be. And even with nothing, you know, I feel like when I look back, like I am proud of myself for constantly continuing to trail blaze forward, like through the flames.

Yeah, I love it. And it's a good question to also ask you. You too have had a lot of life chapters. Some in the public eye, some private that are now public. I would say, like, through, especially when you think about your book, like through all the chapters you've had, which has been the most impactful to the person you are today? Oh, geez. I think they all contribute in very unique ways. Loss and having a child, that changes your life immediately. I mean, I can't even remember life before, James, going through loss. And the chapter

of rebuilding again, that's all entirely new. So, I mean, I'm grateful for all of the phases, I would say. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. So talk about it. So talk about it. So talk about it. So talk about it. So talk about it. Talk to me about how those phases kind of led to this project with your book and the style of the book and the writings, the short writings of it. Like, give us the summation of how it led to this. Yeah, I mean, it really was never meant to be a book. I mean, I started this five years ago. And it was really... Five years ago.

Yeah, because it wasn't meant to be a book. So the whole genesis of it was I didn't know how to breach as just a single dad. I didn't know how to breach difficult conversations with James. And every parent can understand this. You get a kid in a room, you ask them how their day was, they don't tell you. And in the meantime, I'm wondering, are you severely traumatized by losing your mom or what's going on in your life? It's like I didn't have multiple eyes on James. And so I didn't want to avoid those conversations just because he wasn't bringing them up.

So I started writing all of these little kids' tales. And we would read them at bedtime. And here's the thing. It's a psychology behind it. When you remove the child from being at the center of it and you make it about a character, they're more likely to talk about it. Like if I started lecturing to you, you may shut off. But if I tell you a story, then we can talk about the characters together and what's going on,

how you're going to support it. And so at bedtime, we would tell these little stories about things that happen in nature, because nature teaches you a lot about the seasons of life. And the overwhelming arc in this book is to appreciate the seasons of life. Because in between like what you have and what you're getting, that transition period, that's uncomfortable. And it's in its life. And so it's like there's growing going on, even when you're feeling still. There's lessons to be learned, even when you feel,

like you're alone. And the book is just beautiful. It's very old world storytelling. And the art in there is all hand drawn. Oil paintings from another dad. It's really stunning. I've been with him during the whole project. Yeah. And seeing how it's come to life over the last two years. And just knowing you and talking to that question of like the most, you know, pivotal year or whatever, I do feel like grief has shaped you a lot and transformed you. And I always was super inspired by the way that he saw life. Because it's very different. Like, you see it backwards a little bit.

Yeah. And I feel like the lessons that you have taught James, I mean, this child is unreal. Yeah. Truly, he's a very different child because he has gone through so much loss and came out the other end. And he's just very emotionally intelligent for his age. And I do, that's you. Oh, thank you. And so this book, it really brings your philosophy.

And it's not preachy or anything, but it brings hard conversations to light that I feel like every parent should have with their kids. I feel like it's hard with adults to check in, like business partners. Amen. College to check in and just say, hey, how are you feeling? Right. To get people to talk about their feelings when they're fully grown at majority. adult. Then I'm trying to put like my dad hat on it. I'm trying to think about how challenging it would be within eight year old, seven year old, five year old, six year old, just like, hey,

how are you feeling today? Then you put on the different layers of communicating with your child about their mom not being there. And doing it in a way that can work for them. I'm sure there was so many lessons you learned along the way that led you to storytelling, which connected. What are some of those lessons? Like when you were trying to go through, through your own grieving process and then communicate with your child to understand and check in. What were some of the things that you realized this wasn't working? Right. That led you to the stories.

Like, what was some of that? It was really just this deep desire to connect with him and a deep fear that I was coming up short with James. Because a mom wasn't in the picture. And mothers are so insightful. Oh, yeah. I mean, they can, they can. I could say hi to my mom and she'll know just the tone of what I'm saying. What's wrong? In which is right every time.

Right every time. And I'm like, maybe I don't have that. And I don't want him to be a byproduct of something that's broken. And, you know, the stories that are in the book, they are, they ask, they're universal truth. They're things that we learned at a very early age about showing up for others, about letting go of grudges, about letting go as a whole. Letting go as a whole, appreciating the beautiful things, knowing that they, don't last forever. I mean, all of these stories are really interwoven. And there are things that along the way, adults forget. Because I know I forgot them.

And when I was writing this thing, it was really healing me. They were the words I needed to hear too. So I think the book is for people from the age of four to 95. Because there's no difference between growing up and growing old. Zero. Of all the short stories, I'm sure all these short stories at this point, you've read them to James. Oh, yeah.

Which of the short stories when you read them, did you notice like that kind of clicked and maybe hit the hardest or connected the hardest? Well, it's interesting because there's actually 35 stories. James picked these seven. Wow. Yeah. So he handpicked all of these stories because I wanted it to, since the stories were for him, I wanted him to be a part of the book. And so I was like, which ones we throw it in here, bud? And he's like, pop, pop, pop.

That's kind of crazy. And also he's like, that one's trash. I appreciate that. Very honest. Oh, yeah. But the thing that's kind of crazy is the ones that he chose, it shows like your life. It does. Like there's even one about us in there.

There is. And it's really beautiful how it's just been laid out. Yeah. There's a story about the tale of two streams where two streams are best friends and they're going down life together, experiencing all these great things. And then an object lands right in front of them. And they all have to go their separate directions. One takes the high land, the other one goes to the low land and all the things that they experience and all of the growth that they happen that happens individually for each one.

Never would have happened if they would have stayed together. Wow. And so those are the kind of lessons that are taught through just child imagery and easy accessible storytelling that deliver really layered truths. And my goal is that the parent who's reading that, they're not going to see streams. They're going to see something in their own life and how that resonates. And so it's a book that you can come back to

at different periods in your life. So it's like life experiences that create these feelings and lessons that then connect to just everyday stories that could connect with any age at any time. I mean, maybe the two streams is about divorce. Yeah. Interesting. You know?

Of any of these stories, I'm curious from lessons you've learned of being in the public eye or from Bachelorette or Bachelor in Paradise, do any of these stories connect to that chapter of your life? Oh, geez. I feel like, yeah. Which one you think? Maybe the Stones one. Yeah?

I feel like that. That one's about forgiveness. Yeah. And letting go. And then there's the Dancing Dandelion. I don't remember what that one's going on. What are, like, tell these two, the Stones or the Dancing Dandelion? I can say the Stones one because I feel like that one,

That one always resonated with me. It's about a bird that keeps collecting stones because one time a stone was thrown at them. And so it sits off the tree at the bottom of the hill sitting on a pile of stones thinking that it's safe. And he said, if there's no stones around, then nothing can be thrown at me. But then, you know, it always just gave me boost. It meets a friend. And a friend starts talking about like when I, get a thorn in my hoof, it keeps me from running. And that's my favorite thing to do. And so,

you know, eventually the bird starts letting go of some of the stones so we can fly again. And it's really, you know, I don't want to always tell people what it's about because I want them to create their own meaning. But I think on a surface level, it's really about carrying the weight of, of resentment, of past guilt, of all of those things that keep you from, living a more fulfilled happier life. Wow, deep. Now I see why it took you five years to write this thing. I wrote 35 of them. It took James a long time to figure out which ones were good enough. But, I mean, that's what's great about the book. I'm telling you, it's got a very old world heirloom library feel to it. That isn't, I don't see this stuff at Barnes & Noble. And that's why we're proud of it. And we didn't set out to like,

hey, let's write a book that doesn't exist at Barnes & Noble. It just happened that way. Wow. So tell me about the, let's talk a little, we talk business on this podcast, the business behind the book. Are you working with a publisher? Do you self publish it? Is it in Barnes & Noble?

Where can people get it? Talk to us. I mean, I got, I got approached by some of the larger publishers. I talked to you about some of the two. And I don't know. I felt like with this one, I wanted to sell to independent bookstores. I wanted to reward the people that are doing yeomen's work out there, and it's not available on Amazon. So you can buy the book online at The Wild Heart Grows and WildheartGrows.com,

and we're currently expanding our independent bookstore presence. But we want to reward those people that are out there. And the book should be available to ship, I think, probably early to mid-June. Okay, so we're in pre-sale territory now. But it's, it really is stunning. I'm really, really proud of this thing. Oh, thank you, babe. This man, the amount of stuff, like, people don't see, they maybe see like 1% on social media.

Tell us it. The 99% tell us all about it because he doesn't give us a, a wee podcast with him. He doesn't self-promote enough. I know. Because he's Italian and he's humble. He's the best. But no, I call him the tank because he just keeps. keeps going, going, never complains constantly building this unreal company, St. James, you know about it.

And like what he's done with that, it's not by chance. It's literally because you never gave up on it. And I respect that so much because I did the same thing with my skincare line. And that's really what brought us together was we were building at the same time going through stuff with labs or finances. and we really connected on that. There's just so much stuff in the background that he's doing that I'm just like, no one has any idea. And doing an incredible job at being a parent.

I mean, let's talk a little bit about these hats, right? Like your father, it's maybe in the future here coming up soon, but for a long time, you're going back-to-back TV personality. Oh, geez, yeah. Creator slash influencer, now author, entrepreneur of your own business, now entrepreneur and co-founded St. James Therapeutics, raising capital now, selling your books right now. What other hats do we not know about on top of those 15?

That's enough hats for a lot. I'm good. I'm good at it. I'm lucky enough. And thanks for the words, too, is all of the projects that I'm working on have deep meaning for me. And even though it can get incredibly stressful, I am so happy. I have the privilege. to work on things that bring me so much joy, the 18-year-old self in me never would have guessed this was even possible. I thought I'd be at a cubicle selling widgets for somebody else's dream. And while like the entrepreneurship, as you both know, is really challenging sometimes, it's such an awesome ride.

And it's like I wouldn't change it for anything. It's the best. It's the best. Give us a little update, St. James Therapeutic's like, where are we right now? because we've seen some stuff online. You've shared. Like, what's the current up there? Exciting.

So St. James therapeutics, we created a topical therapeutic that offsets a side effect of chemotherapy called Hand Foot Syndrome. It affects about 600,000 people annually. And a lot of chemotherapies cause it. It's burning, blistering hands and feet. It's absolutely brutal. Your fingerprints go away. You can't unlock your phone.

That's how brutal it is. And so Laura had it really bad back in 2017. that's what led to this. And we just finished up our first clinical trial. Wow. What does the clinical trial look like? Oh, well, the results were all independent, run by a CRO, a contract research organization.

So we start this thing where we've been in August of last year, looking to collect 50 patients, run them through the whole protocol. And I'm just sitting here like, oh, my God, like waiting for the data because you don't get to see it. Sure. bias. It dropped like three weeks ago. We had 78% responder rate. Wow. People reported 95% of patients reported significant improvement in their skin within three days. Whoa. And like to me when I hear that? 100% would recommend it. 100% said that they would recommend it to a friend. We also collected some data on about 12 radiation. patients that have radiation burns.

And it was high 90s success. And we get before and after photos. They're insane. And it's really incredible. And this is a novel molecule that we're doing. This isn't a white labeled product where you take menthol and steroids now. Didn't you? I remember in our last podcast, you did this in your basement.

Yeah, it started in my basement. And it was obviously like, I can't Walter White this thing forever. So, you know, I ended up. getting with some real professionals, and I've been lucky enough to have a real amazing crew behind me that have the expertise, the background, and the passion to help cancer patients. So clinical trial goes well, obviously. Now what do you do from here? It went really well, dude. Yeah, I mean, those numbers are crazy. I mean, I was in the pharma world for a decade. I'm looking at these statistics, just shaking my head,

like, this feels weird because it was really positive. The next step is raising $2 million. We had an investor week last week. We got halfway there. Wow, let's go. One week. So a million raised, a million to go. And once you raise $2 million, you'll be able to do what with that capital?

We're going to do a larger scale, multi-centered, double-blind placebo-controlled study that's... What? Physician-assisted. That's obviously to get more credibility and data, right? Yeah, more data. we may do some animal studies in vitro and vivo studies. No monkeys, dude. Right?

That's right. We have like old like jokes. I created my skin care line from scratch too. Yeah. Yeah. We were constantly like we can't have animal testing man. Yeah. No animal testing.

Yeah. I was going to say what is is someone who is dating a very, very powerful woman in animal welfare? What is animal studying mean? So human skin is most like pig. Oh, interesting. This is a topical, so no harm to animals. Okay. So there's different tests.

You hear animal testing and it sounds horrible. Hopefully benefit to animals, right? It's helping you, maybe. It may be able to be beneficial. I mean, there's certain animal testing that isn't cruel. It's not injecting them and them mutating. It may be measuring the response time, a pig or a rat, when their skin is slightly warmed up to actually move in the,

to actually move and notice it. Yeah. So it's not burning the skin. It's seeing if we're hitting any receptor sites that are pain signals. Okay, fascinating. Yeah, so it's all. Raise two million, go to the next step,

more credibility and build it from there? We want this, we, at the end of the day, Laura wanted this to happen, so this started this, I mean, I've been working on it for nine years, man. And it's like, I thought this was gonna be two years and out, but there we go. And I know that now. And we want to be able to be able

to have people have quality of life while they're going through chemo, not have to compromise on on living their life to the fullest and being able to complete treatment. So it's like if you can manage the side effects, it's called cancer supportive care, if you can manage those side effects and give people that dignity, they can stay on their chemo to the end.

Amazing. Without dose reduction or discontinuation. So it's a really, really exciting time. It's the important stuff. Yeah, I want you back once you go to next steps. We'll do a full episode on that. I think that's a good transition to skincare. You got beautiful skin.

You have been in skin and beauty and salon. I mean, what are you at beautiful skin too? Give us some training secrets here. What's the secret? What are you doing? I mean, we do use my line. I will say that. Her skincare line's insane.

Tell me about it. Yeah. So, you know, I've been in the space for a long time. Aesthetician 17 years. Tried everything under the sun. A lot of brands, they would hire me to teach them. So I would go and do education, teach other estheticians. So teaching has really been my background and learning about ingredients and all of that. And it was probably five years ago.

My brother came to me. He had cystic acne. He didn't want to go to school. And I was like, I'm going to try to make something for you. So I started mixing a bunch of stuff in my spa. And it was trial and error. And then we found something. And it took away all his acne. And I was like, shit. shit. Now I've got to make a skater. Yeah. Well, and just like my product, it's not a white-labeled product. This is all novel stuff. I sourced every ingredient. I went to Europe to do it.

So once I made that, I was like, okay, now I need to find a lab. But I had no idea what it took to really create a brand. Now that I look back, I mean, I went to school, not school of like learning business. Like that put me through everything. You got your MBA. I mean, I was the operations, the marketing. I formulated it, like, all the social. And then I really built the business from the ground up.

And my dad, having experience seeing an entrepreneur and seeing what it does to you, which there's a negative and a positive. You have to have balance. I'm a little bit of a workaholic. Aren't we all? Take on this guy. I mean, like, I got through it and I was like, ooh, this is teetering on like not a good workaholic. because it really does take over your life.

If it is your dream, you will go to the end, even nine years later. I mean, I self-funded the thing. She self-funded the whole thing, ma'am. And where can people, like, tell me about it, where can people find it? What skews do you have? So I only created one skew. I have a second skew that is not a physical product, but I only released to professionals at first because I literally ran through most of my money.

I mean, I took a lot- How much did you put into it? A couple commas. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Understood. But it was either, I had two choices because I had built my JD-O-80 Inc. company for so long doing a ton of brand, you know, brand and education and everything.

I was either going to buy a house or I was going to do the brand. I chose to do the brand. And I'm glad that I did because it literally taught me so much. Yeah. And the brand's extremely successful in betting on yourself. It's so scary. and it's so admirable what you've been able to do. I absolutely love it.

And I love that we get to nerd out and talk about all of these things. Yeah, two entrepreneurs at heart. I love it. I love it. I love it. I mean, developing some form of skin type of product. Yeah, well, even a lot of commonalities. Yeah, even for my company, I lean on her and I'm like, who's the good labs?

Like, who, what other products would be good to add to our existing product for synergy? I love it. Yeah. One of the best trading secrets you ever gave or that we've ever had on this show. never forget it is when you did talk about the fact that Laura was bringing in about 50% of income to the household and that you didn't have life insurance. And your message to everyone out there was if you have a kid, make sure parents have life insurance. It was one that like I'll just, it was ingrained into my brain. Oh yeah.

Let's go into any type of trading secrets you have on the finance side. It could be individually through your own business ventures or maybe something that you guys have learned together, bringing businesses together under one route. working together, either one. But just like a financial trading secret since your last one I thought was just so powerful, maybe that you've learned since moving in together,

both being individual operators and doing what you do. What would you say? You're really good at investing. Like you put your money to work. Yeah. And you always have been like that. It doesn't talk back, you know?

It's like you just put it to work and it yields you more return and you don't have to convince it. Yeah. But you've always been really smart with that. I remember five years ago you're trying to help me with that and I think that's something that your money is always in different areas. Yeah. Whether it be buildings or housing and stuff like that. Yeah, real estate. And

I think in or save even if it's a little as early as possible. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the numbers are insane. If you if you have kids at home and if you save them from the time they were born $50 a week until they're 18 and then whatever's accumulated by the time you get to 18, they probably won't have to invest a single penny in order to be a millionaire. Yep, exactly. And so that's just 50 bucks a week. And so getting a comfortable life, I mean, it's possible by just being incredibly disciplined. And frugal.

I mean, you always say that about me. She's amazing. When I first time I met her, first time I met her and we went on a day, I'm like, you look expensive. You didn't say that? But no, that's what I was thinking. I'm like, you look like you have this caviar taste and I'm like this whole like podunk guy from Akron?

I have always been a saver. Yeah, she has. Even when I started my businesses at a super young age, the only reason I was able to even create the brands that I have is because I saved. And I was always saving for a rainy day, having different money in different areas. I'm very frugal. And even when I go to the grocery store, I'm looking at like, okay, this is a little less sense.

Yeah, pay yourself first. Pay yourself first. Do you guys have any like hard rules at all that you've created as far as like love and money goes or any tips or things that have worked? We're very equal. Yeah, we're in line. Like when we first met, you were very surprised at how much I picked up the bill. I was like, no, I got that.

I think I took you out in like three dates. You did. She romanced me, man. That's not a thing with us. Yeah. Like, and I've actually never been like that. any relationship. But I feel like with you and I, it's very equal. It's very balanced. I don't, I personally, and this is just my opinion, I don't think a guy has to pay for all my stuff.

I don't need a guy to pay for all my stuff because I can do it. So I like to treat you. I like to be treated. Wow. Don't we all, buddy? And he treats me. Yeah. Very good. Wow. Yeah. I got to tell you, the theme of this podcast is just balance health and happiness. Yes. I mean, balance. me to, I mean, everyone's asking, even my mom, when I told them I was interviewing you. She's like, they got to get married. Those two are adorable. What is, what are we thinking here? What does it? Do you know what kind of ring you want? I think she does. I know what it is. Yeah. Already. I mean, if anyone's listening and wondering what the future is for us.

Yeah. This is the one. Yeah. I mean, 100. I knew that a long time ago. We were talking before about, like, Like, I'm not trying to get all heady here, but say like religion and God and all of that, the existence of it, which that sounds really heady now. But I think God exists in the gut, the gut instinct when you have a very powerful gut pull towards something. Because if I were to ask you, describe what gut feels like when you have a gut instinct. The words are kind of tricky. The words are tricky. They're a little bit tricky to pull. It's a subjective.

And it's so unique. Yeah, and it's like my gut has always been her. Like from day one, everything else has been details. It's been working out our kinks and figuring out how we can grow together in logistics. But the gut has always been strong. And it's like when that is pulling there, there's the commitment there, the love is there. Everything else is just easy. It doesn't need to get all, like, complicated in a relationship.

So in five, ten years, perfect world paint it. What does it look like? Oh. Five ten years. tired in the woods. We talk about it all the time. We have lots of different lives that we do. At one point, we're going to live in Loretto. Yeah, Loretto has a house there. Okay. And it's our, our place. We also would love a place in Chicago, maybe New York. Yeah, we got a spot. I know, we're just, we're traveling. James, let's go. James, yeah. I think once he gets to, once he gets to college,

so, yeah, once he gets to 18, 19, I think we're going to be free to just, you know, roam. But it's like, We're in that season right now to just hunker down. Wherever he ends up going to college, we both were saying this, like, we want a place there. I know. Us three, like, that's what it is. It's not us, too. Good point. I always told him, like, James is like, we're like the bread.

Yeah. And he's the middle. Yeah. And it's just always like the Trinity. It's so interesting, like leading up to a trip, we're both talking. We're like, we're so excited to finally get out. Like, we needed this for a couple. Yeah.

Then on the flight there, she's always like, I miss James. And I'm like, that's a beautiful thing. That's just a beautiful thing. She's always saying that. Like, in the middle of the night, like, hey, Michael, you up? I'm like, yeah, I just had to tell you this thing that James told me. And I'm like, okay. Yeah, it's cool to share.

It's adorable. All right. So the future is bright. Found the one, which is a beautiful thing. What about we've seen you on TV before? You think we'll see you on TV again? I don't think so. I don't think so.

I know. I said either one of you. Either one of you. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, you're going on? I said either one of you. Like, is this, is this potential thing maybe? What?

Something you've looked into? What, going on TV? No. I will say this. I haven't. I will say this. Are you? I always joke with him.

Yeah, sign me up for the Baps. Yeah. He messes it up. Yeah, right. You know, I'll know who to call. Yeah, right. I always tell him, though, I'm like, we'd be really good at the amazing race. Well, you'd be shit at maps and directions.

Oh, I'm horrible with directions. I always. She's the wrong way. He gets lost everywhere. Everywhere. I just tried to meet him at a coffee shop and he was at the different one. Oh, that's how.

Directions aren't your thing. Oh, no. No, no. I'm lost all the time. What would you say your thing like in the like relationship? You're like,

this is my thing. History. And that's why you're going to see Hamilton. That's right. That's right. What do you mean I'm a know at all? I'm a, I'm a beast.

Like a, are you? Oh, a beast. Wow. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. How about you?

What is your, would you say your big thing that you bring the table? I think I'm going to do it. I'm more emotional intelligence, extremely deep. Yeah. I would say, like, it can have a lot of heady positions. You got a lot of that. Yeah, a lot of mental health stuff. I'm getting James to do meditation and yoga in the morning.

Yeah. Breath words. Yeah, I see that on Instagram. And then you're doing the facials. And now you've taught him how to do the facials. Oh, my gosh. You guys got it teed up. I know.

They're truly spoiled and I love it. After a baseball game, he's like, oh, he'll just start making these noises. like, just waiting for Jade to come over and say, you need a massage? And he's like, yeah, my back hurts. I'm like, you're getting a massage from, normally it'd be like $500. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just get it on the week and you do your thing.

Well, let me ask you this. It's a favorite question that friends always ask Catherine, so I want to ask you. I can't wait to meet her. Yes, you guys will love her. You'll love her. But Bachelor Nation, you're new to it, you're seeing it, all the moving parts, the fans, the people that are from the show,

the alumni. What's your synopsis and take? Everything, Bachelor Nation. You know, I've seen a lot of seasons in the past, and the last one I did watch was yours. And I've always been supportive of it. The thing that surprises me the most is when I meet them in person. And there's so many Salt at the Earth people. Like, I just met Pete.

Pilot Pete. Oh, yeah, it's great. Yeah, yeah, super nice guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's sweet. And I've known you for a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think the thing that's, like, different for me is being with someone on

a bachelor, everyone, like, they connect your relationships to what they've seen online. And you're going on there for love, right? Yeah. Well, now you've gotten it, but they still have opinions about what was. Oh, yeah. And so that's always been a little bit of, like, messes with my mind because I'm like, okay, he's happy now. Be happy for him.

But I think that, like, all your fans have become so supportive now with that. Like, at first, it's obviously different because most of the Bachelor of, people end up with them. But you know this. You're not with someone in the franchise, right? Have you felt the same? Yeah, as far as you're saying like the following and fan bases are you saying? Yeah, I mean, I think the loyal community that is like stayed with me since day one,

like those who come to my page and DM me and comment on my stuff, they have been incredibly loyal and so kind and they say the sweetest things and so welcoming to Catherine. and the critics are always going to be critics, right? It doesn't matter which way you move. They'll always have an opinion. You do this, you do that. They'll always. And that's just the nature of having some form of public spotlight.

But they've been ride or die for you. I mean, your community has now become mine. Yeah. And the thing with The Bachelor fans, they are so ingrained and so loving. And I think that a lot of people before they followed me for my beauty stuff, but your guys' community, it's different. Like, they really care about, like, your life. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I hope so, but, you know, sometimes I wish they'd care less. Yeah. Well, I think the thing is, like, the platform is a derivative of showcasing your life. Yeah. Hearing about your family and meeting your family and hearing about your hardships and your losses and your successes. And so building your community. That's it.

That's it. And, yeah, obviously, like, without them, this. podcast doesn't happen, right? Exactly. And so without them, you know, maybe you don't be able to make the impact that you are with your books. Oh, you're with St. James too. And St. James too. So, like, it's all, it's truly a blessing. All connected. And honestly, it's like, it's like your story about the stones. It's like, you know what? When you're in this world, there's going to be stones. And like, don't collect those stones. Just understand. People are allowed to have opinions. That's okay. And you can continue to be yourself. And those who support you will support you and those who don't,

won't anyway and happy and happy move up. Amen to that. I feel like I've been on the internet and dealing with that longer than you both. Yes, for sure. And I've learned the hard way to not take things literally. Exactly. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Live your life. Well, we got to wrap with a trading secret. I need one from each of you. So one trading secret. Jade, you want to go first? I'll have you go first. Michael A. One trading secret. What can you leave us? Whether it can be from your story, your life, your current situation, what's coming? next are things you've learned along the way. And it's financial?

It can be anything. All right. My training secret is something I said earlier, which is instead of focusing on what you want to attain to give you a happy life, think about what you don't want to regret and work backwards. And I think it'll give you a visualization of where you should spend your time and where your priorities should go so that you don't spread yourself too thin. I love it. It's a great trading secret. Jade, what can you leave us with?

I would say mine is a little bit more business focused. If you have a dream, if something keeps coming to you, like an idea, and you think that it can be something that is worth really working for, bet on yourself. Because that's what I did with myself every time that I wanted to create something. And it really touched a lot of people's lives. And there can be different ways of success, whether it be connecting, finance, whatever. But for me, I feel like all of my businesses were a success because they were rooted in believing in myself, regardless of how hard it would be. So don't stop. I love it. Get it. No, I love it. And I think the trick see you I learned from you guys is throw out the word conventional. Right. There is, like, you want to write a book.

It doesn't have to be in a year and six months. It could be in five years. You could do it your way. Just start. Just start. You know, you have a marriage. It doesn't work out. And you want to leave to choose yourself, choose yourself and continue to choose yourself. And you want to go from skincare beauty, aesthetician salon and Hollywood to Akron because your heart and your gut tells it. Do it. You know, do it your way

and know what else is. Yeah, right, let's go. Well, we're going to buy a copy of your book. We're going to give it away. Guys, give us five stars. Let us know your biggest takeaway from Michael A. and Jade and we will pick someone next week

to give that away. But for everyone else that doesn't win, where can they find your book? You can find it online. Thewildheartgrows.com. All right. And where can everyone find everything both you two have going on?

Jade will start with you. Jodatea.complexions.com, which is my skincare line, and then social media, Jady, waiting on 80. And Michael A, where can they find you? Michael Alio, L4. I love it. Michael, Jade, congratulations on all your happiness. Let's do it.

Thank you for me on sharing secrets. Let's go. Double date soon, man. Double date soon.