Trading Secrets - 304. Maks Chmerkovskiy: Dancing With The Stars, Losing Money, Building Businesses & The Work Ethic Behind It All

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

This week, Jason is joined by world-renowned dancer, entrepreneur, and Dancing With The Stars legend, Maksim Chmerkovskiy, for a conversation about career longevity, entrepreneurship, financial lessons, family, and the relentless work ethic that has fueled every chapter of his life.Before becoming one of the most recognizable faces in ballroom dance, Maks immigrated to the United States from Ukraine with his family in search of opportunity. Arriving in Brooklyn without speaking English and with little more than determination, he quickly immersed himself in the growing ballroom dance community that would eventually become the foundation for an extraordinary career.Maks reflects on his rise from competitive dance champion to one of Dancing With The Stars’ most iconic professionals, sharing how the show evolved into a cultural phenomenon spanning multiple generations. He explains why the current success of Dancing With The Stars isn’t an accident, how social media transformed the show’s reach, and why today’s professional dancers are becoming stars in their own right.Beyond television, Maks opens up about the business side of his career. He shares lessons learned from building a nationwide dance studio company, launching new ventures, investing in businesses, and navigating costly entrepreneurial mistakes along the way. From a failed restaurant venture that never opened to learning hard lessons about money management and lifestyle inflation, Maks reveals the financial realities behind life in entertainment.Jason and Maks also discuss the importance of diversification, building businesses outside of television, and why financial success isn’t just about making money — it’s about learning how to keep it. Maks explains how he and his wife, fellow Dancing With The Stars pro Peta Murgatroyd, continue balancing entrepreneurship, parenthood, and multiple growing businesses while raising three young children.The conversation also takes a deeply personal turn as Maks reflects on his upbringing, his parents’ sacrifices, the emotional moment his father expressed pride in his accomplishments, and the perspective he carries from staying closely connected to the ongoing war in Ukraine.Throughout the episode, Maks shares the mindset that has guided him through success, setbacks, criticism, and reinvention. Whether discussing dance, business, family, or personal growth, one theme remains constant: an unwavering commitment to hard work.From immigration and ballroom dance to entrepreneurship and fatherhood, Maks reveals what it truly takes to build a lasting career while continuing to evolve long after the spotlight shifts.Maks reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!Subscribe to the Trading Secrets podcast!Host: Jason TartickCo-Host: David ArduinAudio: John GurneyVideo: Marc ColcerGuest: Maksim Chmerkovskiy

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by a world-renowned dancer, entrepreneur, and one of the most recognizable faces in the ballroom of dance, Maxim Shmirikovsky. Max rose to global fame as a standout on Dancing with the Stars, where he intensely and authentically brought his talent to make him an absolute fan favorite for over a decade. Beyond the ballroom, he's built businesses and empires all through dance studios, live tours and media ventures. We'll talk about that while continuing to evolve as an entrepreneur and performer.

And I'll tell you what, Max, while you're not on the ballroom and dancing with the stars any longer, your voice is heard from loud in the far because it feels like every season you are in the mix. My man, welcome to Trading Secrets. Thanks for coming on. I mean, every time, every time it's not, I don't know, listen, I'm used to all of that and especially introductions and all that. I always opt if it's like a private event, hey, we're going to introduce I'm like, can I just walk out, introduce myself?

But I appreciate it. This is every time you get one of these and you look back, it's almost like a mini resume, if you will. And what I like is that I think I keep doing enough stuff to offset some of the dumb things they've done early in the career. So it seems like those things are going away. And now the verb is changed. It went from whatever that was to, you know, passion, whatever you said,

passionate leagues, presses. for you, you know what I mean? No, I like it. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Yeah, no, truly, it's my pleasure. I always come into interviews prepared with the direction I want to go, and then we have conversation like this, and I go into a conversation that is sparked from what you just said. But when you say that, obviously, now it's intense, now it's passionate, those are the words. But before you had mentioned, I had done some dumb stuff in my early days, like when you think about it, was the dumb stuff actually dumb, or was it just a result of how intense and passionate that you are about this career and it just took more time to be involved in the space.

Like how would you define that dumb stuff and how have you grown from it? And was it actually dumb? Yeah, easy. I mean, it's easy for me to define it now because I'm a father of three little boys that I now see kind of like go through their, you know, shapings and, you know, solidifying their emotions. And I can see that they're going to be completely three different human beings, right? So, you know, what is the expectation is that in certain ages of your growing, growth, whatever, development, both physically, mentally, emotionally, there's certain expectations. We expect, I don't know, our 9, 10 year olds to start talking back.

We expect our teenagers to be crazy, you know, and just chaotic. We expect a young adult to be what? I think passionate, driven, you know, with incredible work ethic. and hopefully with direction, right? Like, they know, if they know where they're going and they have a plan, you know, and I think I was all of those things, you know, and so like I keep going back and forth as an adult with a lot of, you know, now everybody has a commentary and an access for me to hear their comments, right? Yeah, I do sit back and I do consider, you know, public opinion on certain things.

but over a period of time and looking at it not from like yesterday, I told Len Goodman to retire and what am I feeling like today. But, you know, 10 plus years later, 15, whatever it has been to see where I'm today and who I am today and how that represented me at the time when I was all of those things. I was young, I was passionate, I was driven, I was directed by, you know, my background and also a lot of work, work, work, nothing but work. And, you know, I was just trying to get somewhere. And yeah, along the way, if you sprint and you do it consistently,

if you trip up, as long as you get up and you keep sprinting, you know, so I think that that's what kind of I can always fall back on. Yeah, you did some dumb things, but damn, man, you kept getting up and kept sprinting. And I'm like, you know, thank you. Thank you to that guy because today I get to, you know, reap the benefits. Yeah, it's like a blessing of a curse. The same fire that got you so far in life to keep getting up when you got knocked down. It's kind of the same fire that might have got you in trouble once or twice.

But I feel like every professional has that. So it's like you don't want to remove it because that's your special sauce. But also your special sauce might get you into situations where you got to navigate and literally dance a little bit. Let's talk about this though. I want to go back to your early childhood and coming to the states and what your professional career aspirations were, what it looked like from monetization standpoint. Before we do that, what's happened with Dancing with the Stars in the last two years, from my vantage point, it's really unbelievable.

It needs to be studied by like Harvard. Something has happened with a social currency of this show, which has always been pretty prevalent with a little bit of an older audience, has now stormed Gen Z, stormed social currency. There's an argument to say that the pros are now becoming the stars. We, I own an agency. We do a lot of deals. we just sourced a deal working on Panera's side.

And the first people that they wanted to work with was Val and Jenna. And we worked, of course, through their management, did it all and brought it to life. But the biggest companies and the biggest places are now wanting to work with the actual pros, at high big, paid dollar numbers. What has happened in the last two years that has created this trajectory? Dancing with the Stars is a perfect project. I don't think it's, you know, it wasn't a secret why it works. Ballroom is just interesting enough and intriguing enough and has all the elements of dance,

physicality, you know, the drama and all that stuff leading up to rehearsal. But dance aside, right, the element that made it work is the celebrity. You know, the celebrity is in our show, was able to stretch that meaning of that word from what we were accustomed to where, you know, unless you're an A-List, with a name, why are you even there, right? To now where social media took over so much, the general media fell apart, is falling apart. We don't longer have five network channels that everybody watches,

and maybe this cable show called HBO, because we're all intrigued, right? No, now we're watching it completely different. We're consuming media completely differently. So Dancing with the Stars was the perfect project that if you cast it right, You're going to survive the times. You're going to survive the changes of the, you know, sort of media guard. You're going to survive the changes of media itself. Everybody wants to watch Dancing with the Stars.

It is the only show on air that you can watch with four generations. You and I both went through some similar reality TV background, right? So I did that show as well, right? So that's limited. Everything that we see that people come from to Dancing with the Stars, they all come and bring their media with them. their fan base with them. And so if you keep putting these things in the pot long enough,

what's going to happen is, and I'm going to give you simple example, I have a finger and a pulse of popularity of the show and my personal, you know, sort of currency where I am in airports. It's very easy for me. I fly extremely often, you know, for all kinds of my businesses, and we fly all the time. So every time I'm in the airport, I see where the show dipped in ratings because people come up and like,

oh, you're that guy from Fuller House, right? Fuller House. I'm like, I did two episodes. I did 17 seasons on Dancing with the Stars. So I saw that moment. And then I see another moment where this lady comes up to me. She has a couple of kids with her. And so she's of certain age. I can really see that. She's like, oh, my God, you're Max. And, you know, I've been watching you with my grandma ever since I was a kid. And I'm like, lady, I am, geez, Louise. I'm like, first of all, thanks for showing me my age, but also this is crazy. And so that hit me. I'm like, that girl that was watching this was her favorite grandma, you know, and now grandma passed away. She has her kids. That's the past time she knows that was the most wholesome, the most, you know, one of the most.

But you know what I'm saying? Like it was a very kind of dear time for her and she's now passing it on. Dancing with the stars is here forever. I hate to say to all the haters out there, but we ain't going nowhere because this is now time where the granddaughters are growing up and then finally i mean you you you they identified the tic talk is a star they identified tic talk being its own platform with its own fan base they wanted that fan base and they did the best thing possible they've invited the ticot celebrities the a listers if you will and they brought it all in and i think last season just blew it out of the water. I think Whitney and Mark was so sensational and spectacular and all of the things and also kind of scandalous and everything. I think it was the resurgence of what we had back in a day.

And hopefully this next season is going to be that alley season, we call it, rest in peace. But that's sort of like that, as we know it was the peak of back then, you know, of Dancing the Stars wave that I was part of. I love it. I got a million questions from you, just from that answer, but the first one that comes in mind with Whitney and Mark, you see that they're just crushing records at Chicago, revenue records that have never been done by anybody on Broadway, which is just a, I think that concept is crazy. You have someone who two years ago, we didn't know who she was. On TikTok, she started blowing up. They go to one reality show, and now she's

breaking every single box office record for a Broadway show and a hit that's been around for decades like Chicago. But what's also different is just yesterday. Mark was starring in his first show with her. To me, and Mark is the man, I'm obsessed with Mark. I love his artistry. I think he's a great guy, great husband, good dude, and a hell of a professional. But is, in your year, 17 seasons, did you see things like that where a dancer would actually go star on a Broadway show because of the success of the previous season? I mean, yeah, I did that. You know, I think. What show were you at? Oh, the little show called Burn the Floor where I met my wife, also Shauna Burgess, also Sasha Farber, also a bunch of other pros that Emma Slater and a bunch of pros that we come to love. But look, that's the point, is it?

Right. So we've done 20 years of this. And at the end of the 20 years, where are we? And if we're going to sort of like look back at it, first of all, I just want to put it out there. Mark Ballas is not spring chicken when it comes to Broadway. This dude played, you know. He's done it before. You know, he's done high-level productions.

He's a triple threat, always has been. And the fact that we, and I'm going to attach myself now to like Mark's coattails, as well as the entirety of our, of us, the dancers that have always, you know, done our best to, to, you know, diversify, to be bigger, to be more than just a chacha, you know. I mean, there's few of us. Derek is a, you know, leading men in our industry in that sense. You know, I did a couple of things. I'm very proud of two Broadway runs, forever tango attachment, and burn the floor.

So, you know, I don't sing. So that part of me is just not going to happen. But, you know, we also, I'm looking at acting opportunities and stuff. I've been proud of us, you know, of our kind, you know. And this is just Dancing with the Stars personnel. There are a lot of dances out there that have, you know, Maddie Ziegles of this world and, you know, that have done incredible things and have created careers

and also created opportunities for others, right? They're pop superstars who come from our world. You know, we all know who they are. So my point is, you know, it's been, we've been converting, if I may, for a long time. It's just we are now getting the attention that I think dance world has always deserved. But, you know, to be honest, we've always had that attention. I've also had, was privy to an incredible interaction with somebody like John Travolta, you know, and we spoke about

that. Like, this has been a period of time when dance was king. You know, we go all the way back to Frank Sinatra days with Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly's, right? And then it was a little dip. Then we came back with John Travolta's and his era of dance movies. And then we followed up with, you know, dirty dancing, which is another, like, oh my God, and it sort of did another push. And Patrick Swayze was our guy. He was a ballet dancer with dance mom who had a dance studio. Like, we own these people in that sense, you know.

We like, we hold on to them. So, you know, if we continue that lineage and, you know, Mark Ballas is next and Derek is next, and, you know, I'll have a step, you know, dip my toe in there. Val and Jenna obviously still, you know, very much dancing with the stars, royalty, but, you know, we'll hopefully have their chance and their opportunities. I mean, you know, I hope we all continue doing that. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I mean, the show's taken over, but like you said, dance has always been such a major masterpiece of art.

But not to diminish it. Mark, I want to give him his flowers. Like, he's, he's that dude. You know, he's also, we're also very proud of the fact that, you know, he, Julianne as well, by the way, another name. So he, Julian and Derek, they do have that background. They have that theater background, a musical theater background. So to see him, you know, Shy and Mark has always been that man. He's always going to, would have been, you know, the starting role.

And for him, that character, the fling. the Flynn character in the way they presented, you know, their original, I think they did Chicago piece on her dancing with Saucis. I mean, I literally said that. I mean, that there's their audition and there's that winning audition. And if the show is watching, I mean, it's like a no-brainer. I hope she got a call literally right then and there, you know. I think she did.

Yeah, we had Mark on the show, and like you said, his, I mean, his resume of everything from being in England to his predecessors with his mother to acting in Harry Potter. I mean, it is composer, writer, singer, a pure artist. And I feel like, yeah, the resume of every pro at this point is getting so, so electric, so elite that the people on this show, is it fair to say, like, if you're a pro on dancing with the stars, this is, this is the, like, if you're a hockey player, it's an NHL, it's like, you know, you're playing in the NFL, football player in the NFL?

Like, is dancing with the stars, the, would you say the premium, the top of the top, like the Hall of Famers right now in the society of the industry of dance? I mean, it's probably the best dance job that you can get. And I don't mean forever.

I mean, for there's a period of time when this is the something that you want to be a part of if you're a dancer growing up. And so we see that also, because there's a huge uptick of non-ballroom dances just really working hard in the background because I'm always also prevy to seeing some of the leading dance studios in Los Angeles, New York, and, you know, the metropolis areas.

And I see that, you know, you have these, you know, young talent that is obviously with, and we know who they are. They come from a very elite dance background elsewhere. but they're now trying to get the boron background trying to really understand it and really study it and so i would be i'm happy you we're going to be privy to some of that type of dance talent in the future but that's why and i'm not going to i'm not going to i'm not going to touch on it or say the names but that's why i talk shit when the show comes out i'm like i just can't keep this to myself in an opinion about the integrity of this type of process.

Like, let me be the guy that keeps pulling it this way, keeps making sure that it's being known. Like, yes, the show is fantastic, but it's only fantastic because there's maintenance going on. We keep trying to have the, you know, when Val leaves, right, and Jenna may be coming up to, like, the days that she's no longer, Danny and Pasha, like, who's taking over? Who is the next, you know, Val and Jenna?

this point or Danny and Pasha when they're no longer there like who is that next person uh these next people right so I feel like that's important that we preserve that and so it doesn't become all the pros will then you're not going to be hired on your talent but you're going to be hired on on some sort of like social media currency like that shouldn't happen you know we should be able to open these doors for high level ballroom trained professional talent to develop the next VAL, the next mark, the next, you know, the next Derek. I think that that's what we need to do. I was going to say, you kind of already alluded to it there and without saying any names or getting any headline nonsense, just the reality of the business brain. If you're on like the head of the board

of directors for casting and you have to bring in the next bell, you have to bring in. Like, and you're, I could see you like Simon Cowell. You're the guy that would rip everyone apart. No, no, no, no. What is the criteria? Like some, they bring a next dancer on to be a pro what is the criteria that max would say this is what they should adhere to and here's why i mean it has to start with foundation it has to be simple you have to be a ballroom professional you have to have gone through certain you know levels of understanding why the cha cha is the way it is and it's so important because the element of it is not just you doing it i never ever will say that someone that comes from non-ballroom background cannot do what we do that's not

never what my comments are my comments are about the other parts of dancing music stars job you are a coach you are a not just a coach but you are a specialist in in in adopting the chacha if we're talking about that and making it like just fingerprint identity for that specific person right and so then that couple becomes that right so if i get cursie ali i teach i teach her the cursie Ali, right? And I'm only bringing up myself examples, but then when I get Merrill Davis, my chache is different, you know, and so that's what I want. I want a professional that has that foundation. But then, you know, where we come from, we come from a unique background and a mix of things that happened. You know, some of us also had this sort of intercontinental migration.

I come from somewhere else, Mark and Derek and Julian had experience somewhere else as well. So we had this sort of melting pot of education and background that also very important, right? So you have to try to, if I, and by the way, I think casting is doing a fantastic job. Shout out Gina Katz. She doesn't need any help, especially not mine. But if I were to say, I would say, look, this few boxes that needs to be checked out and they have to be, they have to start with Boland Foundation. It can be something you just, you know, spend a couple of months, you learned, you are fantastic enough, mover in some other way so you make it look decent but you're not educating somebody and that that's

very important to me yeah that's a hell of an answer and yeah shout out to dita cats i know she also casts i believe for traders too amongst many other shows i think she's yeah the best best casters in the business she's got to have a she has to have a you know an emmy room by now i feel like she should not yeah not like a little office a whole freaking room But you know what? We talked a little bit about Mark Ballas. Last time he was on the show was right after he was a judge on the show when he came in for the week to be a judge. I asked him, listen, the show's cranking right now.

Would you ever go back and be a pro? He said no. You've been on the 17 seasons of Dancewood Star, champion season 18. We already heard you talk about the success right now. Like it ebbs and flows, but right now it's ripping and roaring. You've said on previous headlines I read that that ship has sailed. but has that ship sailed? And if so, why?

If you're a business guy, like this is the time to cash in. It's really, oh, why wouldn't you think about going back? I think so that, look, I also live in a very strange generation. I have not seen a 46-year-old, you know, be dominant in any kind of format

that has to do with movement, right? Because usually by now, you've gone away far enough that you're now, you know, educational, professional, you're now something else, you're some, some other things. And so for a very long time, like, I'm not the guy to just, like, have this spawn on me and tomorrow I can't dance, right? So I try to lay the tracks and foundation that I don't want to depend on a past career at some point where I can't do it anymore. But I've been saying that's for 15 years. At the same time, I've been working really hard to maintain the fitness level

and physicality. And so every time this something comes around and I have this incredible opportunity to dance with Val, we were in Napa, we put on a great show, we spent three months, it was a high level professional dance. I'm like, damn, you could still do it. Then thoughts come back, right?

So my answer was always based on the fact I'm just old and can I do it? But I've done enough life over the past 10 years, plus I have my kids, plus I've settled down into my flow. And, you know, I know how to regulate a lot of work, right? And also parenting and also being a husband and also have all these other responsibilities. So today, you know, it seems like, it seems like you said, if there's an opportunity and it makes sense, why not? Right.

But I just can't, I can't say it. I've said it so many times. I'm like, no, bro, no. This is just an, you know, maybe, maybe it's a. like it's so far sailed but again you know if the opportunity presents itself and it's a great opportunity you know i would love to probably still come out and say hey yeah man now i have so much more to you know i do want to see myself perform i do want to see if i can do it this is a very freaking difficult job people think from the outside it looks easy this is a 24 seven three months

straight you don't see your family you see them in odd-off maybe, you know, Peter and I were in a show together. We kept passing each other for two. We were in the same building. We didn't see each other. And we had a kid and it was insane. So it just has to be a great opportunity. I really want to judge.

I really want to contribute to that part of the show. If it's not in the cards, fine. If in the cards is a participation and say, hey, you know, come back, be a pro and see what it looks like. Like I can't sign attention. year deal. It's just absurd, right? It doesn't even sound right. But if the opportunity presents itself and it's great, like I said, I'll probably, I'll probably think about it. We all know that feeling, right? Every time you look at your phone, there's a big market shift or

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slash trading secrets. Terms and conditions apply. This is a paid endorsement of Wealthfront. Client experiences will vary. Wellfront brokerage is not a bank. The base APY is as of January 30th, 2026 and subject to change. For more information, please see the episode description. I'm here pushing for it. I'm advocating for it. LeBron's 41, man. You're 40, when you say 46, like, that's fine. You could do this shit. You've done it. Let's go. Yo, I'm not doubting myself. I'm not doubting myself. That's why I'm like, I'm putting it out like that. I just hate that I'm giving long answers.

It should be a sound bite. Yes or no? I don't know. I just don't know. I would love to say yes and then be like, hey, and then we're going to skyrocket to other opportunities. I have fantastic life. I have fantastic opportunities.

I have a lot of work ahead of me in the ones that I have. And I welcome that work. And I go and I do put out monumental efforts just physically. but you know dance has always been there and because it's still available to me that's why I'm hesitant if it wasn't available to me it would have been easier to answer yeah my legs don't work I can't do it but I get fantastic legs I'm about to go work out I have incredible you know flow of things and maintenance and sort of consistency and I just want to see how long I can do it we have some fantastic announcements with with Peter coming up and maybe that'll satisfy

both sides, us in our output and what we actually want to do, and the audience in like, you know what, we want to see you do X, Y, Z. So maybe that'll satisfy some things. But yeah, Dancing with the Stars is not going anywhere. And I feel like for some reason, we're not going anywhere with its association, although people don't understand. I haven't been on Dancing Stars since 2019. It's been a long time and people don't get it. So, you know it's it's what's what's really a testament to you is that you haven't been on since 2019 but every season you're you're a main character in the show like jason whether you're on the tv or not you're i got i got to give it to you you're a fantastic interview this is also and

maybe i'm i'm you know i've have i've been having too many little kids so i'm not really paying attention but you're a great interview and this has been an awesome back and forth and And you should definitely continue this. You're doing fantastic, and I would support you, and I hope you're doing amazing. But what a great way that you keep interacting about that. You have the background and an understanding of what we actually did. And that's why you see and your questions are like, yo, look at you guys. Look at you guys, right?

And so we don't want to pat our own back, the pros, the ones that were there from beginning. Some of us stuck around. I'm also proud of that. I really am. I'm not with like, I'm not being vain or self, but I'm proud that back from the, from the career of this show is about someone else to now, we are, that's also the names that people, people associate their sort of love for dance with or, you know, they love us personally for whatever the, you know, brand.

of Max, a brand of Max and Peter together, or Val, or whoever it is, we're still here, and we're doing it well, and, you know, we represent right things, and I hope I represent, you know, a great father, and sometimes I fail at that, you know, at home, but I'm doing my best. I hope I represent, you know, a great husband, you know, because, again, I, it's not easy, but I'm doing my best. Peter and I blinked and it's 13 years later, you know, and so like, it's so much, it's so much happening. So we're very proud of that. We, you know, we, we, we do understand it. You know, just not in my nature to talk about that. I just, I'm about work and, you know, being busy. I get it. I like it. Looking forward, not backward, but one thing that you blink in, it comes is if you

go back to the early 90s, right, that's when you guys came from Ukraine to Brooklyn. And now it's been over 30 years. And you think about when you came here and the championships you've won, right? Like U.S. National Latin Champion, World Championship finalists, your list is long of all the success you've had. In the 30 years, we talk money on this podcast and career. What has surprised you the most financially from where you've started to where you are now being in the space of dance in the United States? Bro, I'm one of the lucky ones. I mean, there was a book outlier. You know, everybody knows. If they don't, I don't know. It was a very easy read. Malcolm Caldwell, right?

Malcolm Caldwell. And it really said, it's a very sort of easy way to just focus your attention on sometimes. It isn't about, you know, the talent. It's also about other things. Sometimes it's not about other things, but, you know, it's about, but sometimes also about the place and the time and sort of taking the opportunity moment. somehow after being not very good for first 10 years of my dance life i immigrated and it was such a traumatic just big event in life i was insane i didn't speak english this wasn't like people come nowadays where everybody seemed to like be a person of the world and doesn't matter where we'll

you know what i mean we weren't that we were very much rooted in the our town and we left because oh by the way you know family with two boys would inevitably see their boys be enlisted and then fight somebody's war and this is exactly what's happening with ukraine right now so but again not to go there that's why my parents made this our parents made this you know move they didn't want to see that they wanted to see opportunity and so we landed with no money no prospects and kind of like okay what do we do now And the opportunity presented itself. There was no ballroom dance in the United States.

Brooklyn specifically became the center point where all these young immigrants came to and brought dance with them, that particular type of dance. And that's where it spawned. And it grew from there. And the Max and the Val of this world came from that wave of immigrants. The Pasha and the Daniela of this world also have to do with that side of Brooklyn. we all grew up together. And so, like, you see these professionals that for the last 20 years, you know,

make up a core group. And they keep coming from that sort of very small place outside of Utah to the Utah with the Derek's and, you know, Julianz of this world and everybody else that are coming, Jenna and everybody in between and Brooklyn. And so we're also very proud of that. But I believe that I was the right place, right time, right decade, you know, right body type. I don't know, right opportunity. and then all I knew by then is just work,

and that was the best sort of combination of things. Everything else fell in place. When did you start to realize? Like, it all fell into place, but like when did, like, what was that moment? I think we all kind of have that moment. You either get a big paycheck or you sign a big contract or you're like, shit.

Like that just changed, change things for me for a little bit. What was that moment for you in your career? By my house, you know, I had an apartment that I already bought that I thought was like the most incredible, feet on earth. It's just being able to gather some money and buy property and it just blew my mind. But that moment, I gave that apartment to my parents and I bought myself a house that was bananas and above my, definitely above my need at that time. But it felt like that was my, you know, I also

made a lot of money that year. And by the way, this is for all the kids out there listening. I did the same thing that everybody else does when they follow. into money. I kept working, but I did not at all, not for a second, gave it any, any attention. And it went right through my hands. So it wasn't like, you know, I did all the right things. I did all the right things according to life, according to, you know, my community, you know what I mean? Like people around me. But I definitely, you know, I had my moments with money because you guys talk about that here. And it took me a while to get out of these moments. And, you know, and sort of like look back and appreciate that I did seize all those opportunities.

And I did, and they did result in that type of end financial gain as well, right? But there is more to life than just work and earn. You have to also know how to keep, right? And that's another side of adulting that, again, I, you know, it took a little while for me to get to that point. I think the moment of realization that, you know, I personally made it. It wasn't me realizing. It was more like, you know, my, for example, my dad's comment. You know, I did a lot of other stuff that isn't really public knowledge and the social media isn't big in those days.

But I did like, I was a director for Larev at the Wynn Hotel for eight years. I was privy to incredible opportunities and events in that space as well. And I remember my dad seeing La Reve for the first time. And that was the first time that the show has integrated finally fully all my dance routines and my dance numbers. And I was one of the first, if not the first, to put ballroom into circ, like show, water, and all those elements. And my dad saw it for the first time, came out. I remember he had like, teary-eyed. And he's not the guy to speak that way.

But he's like, look, you know, in his format, he's like, everything you may have done wrong up until this point like you've totally redeem yourself. He was like it's special and I'm proud of you and I'm like I'm tearing up a little because he's not that guy. We've won things. You know, he was like, great. Are you practicing tomorrow? And I'm like, can we celebrate the trophy first? But no. So yeah, that was the moment that I will never forget because it was a big deal for me to hear it from somebody who is a big deal for me to hear anything from. It's been, it's been fun. Bad ass. That's bad. That's a good moment to have and never forget. I do want to just like drill down a little bit though because a finance podcast you can earn a lot. You can you can create such value within your own entity that you become

such a hot commodity and that'll bring in cash flow. But to your point, you got to keep the cash and then make money on the cash. What were some of the things that you were doing that was falling through? Was it just crazy spending? What type of spending? Like what actually happened that you weren't actually accumulating it? And what was? Yeah. No, I think it was the, is the, the, The misunderstanding that, you know, money when they come, they don't necessarily produce other money. Like, you have to then keep building, right? It's like you planted something and it grew. There shouldn't be an expectation that now is going to keep growing every time.

And all you have to do is just keep getting that whatever. So, like, we, I quickly realized that, A, entertainment industry is very fickle in these things. nothing is forever, but before that, when you make a million dollars, let's call it that, you have to know how you make another million dollars next year. You know, because if you're going to adjust your, especially if you adjust your lifestyle, if you're going to adjust your lifestyle in any way, because now we look at that check, we're bowling, everybody's rich, everybody, we're going out, we're going to celebrate. What are you celebrating?

You're going to celebrate 20% left maybe that you're going to have. By time the check is gone, the party's over, right? And then somebody comes knocking and says, okay, you owe us X amount of percentage of that, right? And that's called taxes. And so, like, it's not something that I didn't pay attention to in economics class in the university. No, it's something that you just need a life lesson. And my life lesson was very expensive, it was very slow because I didn't even see it coming. It wasn't like an overnight thing.

and there was a lot to deal with, you know, in the middle of life, in the middle of a lot of other things. But I'm also this guy. I'm like, you know, I remember I jumped off dancing with the stars. It was so important to me not to be made to have to do it and to be able to do other things. It was just important for my personality. Like I felt, you know, like I needed to have some freedom. And because my dance space and TV was completely blocked for me, I went and I started a restaurant in Austin. in Texas. I've never been to Austin by then, but I did a lot of steps and I done a lot of things

I had in my time and so I started a restaurant. I lost a lot of money. It never opened. I went all the way up to creating a kitchen. I have a book about this big with every nail and the color and an item of the space. I have the book of the menu. I mean, it was just a lot. But that's me. That's my personality. So, you know, I'm never going to look back and say there was a fail. I'm going to look back and say, possibly ahead of my time, possibly, you know, without seeing, knowing what the end looks like, you know, but also I'm going to look back and say, damn, man, you're brave. You know, you did some stuff that I'm not today. I'm not going to, I'm not going to even look in that direction. But the fact that I have that experience of jumping and throwing myself into things full all the way,

I'm just like, you know, I can't look at that as a failure. I'm looking at it as an incredible experience in that space. I feel like that's a lot of your life mantras. Like I move 100 miles an hour full speed ahead. And if I have to ask for forgiveness or learn a lesson, I'll learn the lesson. But I'm not going to learn the lesson unless I go full speed ahead. so I'm going to continue to go full speed ahead. And clearly it's worked.

I try. Appreciate it. Yeah, I learned. Somebody told me, I've given us not permission. And I'm like, I ran with that a little too far. We'll see.

How much, we talk numbers here a little bit because we can learn through lessons and numbers? How much did you lose on a restaurant? Oh, I lost, I lost, you know,

I had a fantastic lease agreement because I was going out to real estate conventions for a bunch of years and I would go to like, one in Vegas, one in Jacob Jefferson, in New York, I would go twice a year. I would make real estate deals for my dance studios. I've been in rooms

that would pull out a map and it's a management company that manages millions of commercial real estate space around the country. And they would just point out that some space, I loved looking at demographics reports. I love looking at where through expanding our dance studio company, because we are 14 in eight states. And when we expanded into Texas, most of us have never even been to Texas. So that's how I was able to make these real estate deals. I got a really prime space for my restaurant. My restaurant was going to be in a high-end all-day breakfast, if you must know, with a golden champagne line, which is going to happen at the time when I have enough to eat through myself and not be dependent on circumstantial situations. I think it was like $175,000

just for the breaking of the lease. And I think there was just a lot of other you know, a lot of other, yeah, it was a lot. Yeah. Good learning lessons, though. Great learning lessons. Great learning lessons. And that's why you talk about money because, like, right now, there could be someone that listens to this.

It's like thinking about investing in a restaurant because they heard your story, they might rethink it or do something differently. And they might save a couple bucks along the way. So I feel like through numbers, we can learn a lot. A lot of people say in this space that, like, once you're, we talked a little bit about this since 2019 and now you're still a main character. during the cast, even though you're not on TV. But there's a lot of misconceptions out there that once you're off TV,

financial success goes down because you can only make it if you're on TV. Have you found that financial success, if you look at like your income year over year, has it gone down since leaving Dancing with the Stars? And if not, what are some things you've done from a business perspective to keep it moving in the right direction? I mean, so one thing I was never prevy to is to start a business with a lot of funding. I've never done that. We've always done everything out of pocket and it was very kind of bootstrapping. Our dance studio is out of pocket basically and, you know, we have celebrated a 20th university right now.

We're fully set up corporate structure. We, you know, have few steps ahead of us by the end of the year. We're going to be, you know, doing other things. But, you know, from personnel, from the, you know, instructors who have become, you know, regional directors and now company part owners. I mean, like, I'm very proud of us to also open doors for a lot of people to learn business, to be successful, to, you know, to grow with us. My vodka company right now, same thing. It's very, it's out of pocket and it's bootstrap. It's me and my partner.

I personally felt like I'm going to be more proud of how hard it was when it went at the end, you know? And it's not like, I don't want all of a sudden a bag of money to fall in my head. You know, I would love that. But it's never been my history. I've never been that guy. I've never, you know, I feel like I've won a life lottery. But everybody keeps telling me it's about the journey, not the destination.

So yeah, I want the money and I want it now and I want security life. I want a buffer zone where I can also just go and, you know, watch my kids grow because that stuff is something I don't want to blink on. But it's not my journey. It's just never been my thing. My thing was always like what is hard. It's growing. grinding. But now both Peter and I, she's doing so much with her beauty line, Peter Jane Beauty,

and I'm so proud of watching her getting goosebumps because we don't see each other. She's behind me right now working out. And she's going to go because, and I can't, you know, we're going to intersect for a second and interact and then she's going to go about her day, which is even busier than mine. So, you know, watching us do this, I'm just even more proud of us, you know, because it's so hard because you can't see the grind because people think that we oh my god you guys everything's perfect look at the family you put out on social media we are perfect but but it's not easy at all you know and we're perfect because it's so hard because we don't have the freaking insistence and a hundred people around us and it's not easy for us to just press play and then just edit that

video and put it out it's so difficult it's so hard we have three freaking babies running around It's nuts, but people don't see that, and I love that. So at the end of the day, I will be proud of how we got here. And by the way, she keeps this shirt, you know, I'm both guys in this shirt. And that's what I'm proud of. I've done the knocking out, and I've been knocked out. But, bro, you never, you know, I'm both of these guys. By the way, Muhammad Lee and I shared the same birthday.

Oh, that's pretty badass. No, I think you're bang out. Like that's, if you're not self-aware or nothing like to realize you've got your ass kicked and kicked ass, then I think you need like just more looking in the mirror because that's the story of it. And I think you touched on something really important. Like especially in today's society with our phones and social media, we idolize a lot of these powerhouse couples.

But the moving dynamics behind powerhouse couples, it's, it's extreme. Like you and your wife and Peter, you're both so independent. You're both so strong with your brands. You're both so good at what you do. You work in your own lane while working in a. family lane while working in the lane for the millions of people that watch your social media and hear you guys on your podcast. It's a lot of moving parts. And I think it's good that you bring awareness to that because I think people only see the glitz and glam of it. They don't see like the

hustle, the grind, the additional communication. Sometimes the conflict of like, okay, who's going to watch the kids when I go pursue my career here and you're going here and getting on the same page? It's a lot to man. It's an everyday thing. And I'm also like my Capricorn and my freaking OCD I would love the life where I'm like, I know for the next six months, everything that's coming up, my day, my week, my months and all that. But this is chaos. Every day we wake up and Milan hasn't slept. Oh, yeah, that's, I mean, here you go. You make plans for tomorrow and then you spend the entire night not sleeping because one of them decided to have a, you know, a fit or a temperature fit or something or he just doesn't want to sleep in his bed today.

He wants to sleep with the mommy and only in this position. And if not, then he's just going to start yelling. It's not up to me, right? But the morning, when we wake up, Peter and I look at each other. We're like, our eyes are like this. And we realize that it's go time. It's not, it's never like, you know what, let me take this morning. No, it's go time.

But now go with zero in your tank and absolutely not having slept. And by the way, that today I got to go. and do that show and that episode and do that thing, right? And so all of a sudden, my emotional state is also exhausted, right? And then please don't ask me that question because I'm not in the state right now to answer the way I want to look back at it tomorrow. You know, so it's amazing. It's, again, I wouldn't have it any other way.

We have calluses on our soul right now that isn't making us, you know, hardened people, but it's more like I'm a softie that knows how to get punched, you know, know, I got this. No problem with that. Yeah, I love it. Well, as we're wrapping up here, talk about calluses on your soul. In your profile, you have Baranova 27, which is a non-for-profit for Ukraine, humanitarian fund. And I know you were in Ukraine in 2020. Give us a little bit of information as far as like what it was like being down there,

what you're seeing today, and what anyone here can do to help. You know, because it's four years, and it seems like it's become a little bit of a sort of like a, normal thing, right? And every time I say this, I get these comments of like, but talk to your politicians and, you know, I don't give a shit about any of that. What I care about is that somebody dear to me who she and her kids are in Switzerland as immigrants still, and, you know, sounds Switzerland. They're immigrants. And their father is in Ukraine. And for the last four years, and he's an older man, He's in his 50, so he's not a 30-year-old.

When they have kids and they have like a 9 and a 12-year-old, so that's that age of two boys, and they speak every day. Anyway, so he got stopped and pulled in a van, and he's out in the war. And it's just so hard for me to understand, you know, because there's somebody I know, and it's been the case with that country and for the last four years and for a long time before that, It's just so unjust, you know, that people lose a debt.

You know, what we just spoke about, the life experience that I'm having, that you probably, you know, we're having. What a life experience, you know, what, you know, my biggest problem is that, you know, Peter and I have different parenting styles. You know, biggest problem in life is like, he should eat and she's like, you're crazy. Just let him fucking do whatever. And I'm like, but kids have to have structure. And she's like, but they, you know, I'm just being like, just weird, stupid, like everyday stuff. And that's my biggest issue. And my biggest issue is hopefully my kids don't get sick.

And I'm trying to make sure that. Bro, somebody stopped you, pulled you out of the car, put you in a van. And you're now going through a month and a half quick little, you know, hold the gun training protocol. After which you're going to go into straight to the front. in that brigade that he's a part of, they're the ones they get thrown in. And I'm like, and it's not a movie. It's actual situation. And so this person, and she's like, I can't talk to you.

I'm going to start crying. And I'm like, and you feel helpless. You feel hopeless, you know, hopeless, you know, so that's the reality. And so Obranova did a, you know, a small splash in the, the moment and you know I wish but it's not I wish I could have done more I could do more it's like I don't know what to wish for I just wish it stops and ends right now you know I wish that it has it doesn't have to happen at all you know but again I'm we here being philosophers and and all of that but I think that the realities you know just make sure that your experience of life somebody said

what is the key to happiness? And they're like, it's very simple. It's, you know, it's the quality of the passing of time. That's it. Quality of the passing of time. You take that and you multiply by, you know, if you're healthy, you have many problems. If you're not healthy, you have one problem. Like those two things, that's how I live a life at the moment.

And what keeps me grounded and not give a shit about social media comments is the fact that there's a reality that I'm very connected to, that I'm not going to. say it's you know i am i'm not carrying that flag but but that was my conversation yesterday and today after we're going to hang up i'm going to figure out how to hit her up and again hey how you doing today you know but what is this conversation about her husband's in the war you know and and she hasn't said to the kids and she because they keep saying good morning and good night every day so it has been it's been a week so it's like i cannot imagine with my nine-year-old right now, not being able to have that interaction.

He's such an empath, and he's so sensitive to these things. So like, and I see his eyes tearing up if I were to pal, oh my God, this is too much. Families are still separated. There's still millions that are out of the country. A man is still hopeless inside of that country. It's still, it's still a disaster, and it needs to stop. And then there's going to be a huge rebuild, and everybody's going to be thinking about this stuff, but again, generations are having a terrible life experience.

Yeah, well, man, we are running low on time here. So I'm going to wrap with your trading secret. It's been awesome to talk to you. I've got a million more questions for you, but we'll have to do it another time. But one trading secret. So everyone that comes on, they give us something that we can learn from your career experience, your finance experience, your life experience that you can't read in a textbook or learn on TikTok or from a professor, but that's specific to you.

So, Max, what is your trading secret? can you leave our listeners with? My trading secrets is you can't outwork me. That's my secret. It's not a secret. It's like whatever situation I'm in, if it's up, it's just, it's the work ethic, man. It has to go back. It's not my, it's not my pride.

It's my, I'm proud of having that, but it's my parents. I'm not holding myself account, you know, with that pride, it's more on them, right? So I'm saying like my accomplishments are resorts. of their efforts. My sons, I'm going to take credit for, you better believe that. I did that. You know, to extend. No, but I mean, like, all jokes aside, it is the work ethic. You know, it doesn't matter what you don't know. If you can't work, you will find a way to get that information. You know, I'm also of the huge belief it's not about talent. Again, it's the work, work takes over because there are people that come, again, in my industry, come, do, and he's got it.

I was not that guy. I had to practice. I hated practice, but I had to have the repetition. So I would seek my repetition to come from somewhere else, like a job. I love working. I love the work. If there's a work to do, I want to do the job. And so my restaurants were, you know, when I got a first dance job when I was 15 on Brighton Beach

in one of those Eastern European restaurants, the dinner in the show, I was the show and I was still in high school. That led me to my success on stage. That led me to my success in choreography. It led me to my success with audience interaction. It led me to my success with, you know, commanding groups and being able to put on a show

in any atmosphere, in any setup. And that's that 10,000 hours. And so, no, I didn't learn how to be on stage. I got the experience. And so I personally seek out opportunities that I can throw myself in and learn on the job. And so that's my strength, my always, I can, no matter what today, as a 46-year-old that's come through a lot of stuff, no matter what happens in life, I can always go, you know, I can always work. And I can outwork anybody. And it doesn't matter if someone who will have to do digging ditches tomorrow or be a plumber.

I'll be the freaking best plumber you'll ever see. That was incredible. And this episode has been nothing short of incredible. Thank you so much for coming on Trading Secrets. Honestly, truly the pleasure is ours. And hopefully this was another episode of Trading Secrets, one you couldn't afford to miss.