Trading Secrets - 306. From Swiftie to CEO: How Olivia Levin Built a Bestseller and Six-Figure Creator Business Around Taylor Swift

Episode Date: June 8, 2026

This week on Trading Secrets, Jason Tartick is joined by entrepreneur, creator, and New York Times bestselling author Olivia Levin. What started as a Taylor Swift fan account at age 13 has evolved into one of the most influential fan communities on the internet, with over 630,000 followers, major brand partnerships, a thriving ticketing business, and a bestselling book, The Story of Us.Olivia shares the incredible story of how a difficult season of layoffs, loss, and uncertainty led her to bet on herself, turn her passion into a full-time career, and build a business at the center of the creator economy. She breaks down the realities of monetizing a niche audience, securing brand deals, helping fans access face-value concert tickets, landing a publishing deal with Simon & Schuster, and consulting artists on fan engagement strategies.Plus, Jason and Kathryn dive into the power of fandom, Taylor Swift's business genius, creator monetization, entrepreneurship, community-building, and what Olivia has learned from spending more than a decade at the heart of one of the world's most passionate fan bases.Whether you're a Swiftie, creator, entrepreneur, or simply curious about how passion can become profit, this episode is packed with lessons on business, branding, and building a career on your own terms.

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today, we are joined by a woman who turned her childhood passion into a New York Times best-selling career. Olivia Levin, the creator behind the account, Swift's Fraternity, and the author of The Story of Us, How the Taylor Swift Fandom Changed Our Lives. Olivia started her Taylor Swift fan account at just 13 years old. And what began as a Tumblr page has become one of the most followed Swifty account, on the internet with over 630,000 Instagram followers, a U.S. Today recognition as one of the biggest Taylor Swift influencers in the world

and now a New York Times bestseller. We're talking about how she turned fandom into a full-time business, what really goes into monetizing a niche community online, the power of super fans in the economy, landing a book deal in what her story says about the new creator economy. Olivia, welcome to Trading Secrets. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to have you. It's been a long time coming. And I got to say, once we had this booked, I had to call Catherine.

And I'm like, Catherine is a major Swifty. She turned me into a Swifty. And so she's my backup resource when I don't know things and specific questions. So we got the whole Swifty crew here. I love it. Thanks for coming, Catherine. Yeah, my first co-hosting gig. Let's go. You ready to go? All right. I should have let you do the intro. I could talk about Taylor Swift. All day. All right. Let's go back. So 13 years old, right? You're on Tumblr. And you're starting. to build this social media account. Obviously, a very strong passion of yours. Talk to me about what that was like and when you actually started to get recognition

and how that led to Taylor Swift seeing your account to kind of put you on the map in the Swift's community. So I started that account when I was 13. And just because it's only because I found out that there was a whole community of people who loved Taylor's music online. And it was kind of during the rise of social media, you know, 2013, 2014. And I discovered Tumblr. I didn't know what Tumblr was before I heard that Taylor Swift was on it. And so I joined Tumblr and Instagram around the same time.

Okay. And I just was doing it for fun all throughout high school. By the time I was like 15, Taylor followed me on Tumblr. By the time you're 15. By the time I was 15, so I probably had my account for like over a year. And Taylor found it and followed me on Tumblr and like would interact with some of my content. By the time I was a senior in high school, I was 17. And she invited me to her house for a reputation.

and secret session. And then I just kept running that account throughout college. I was always known as, like, the resident Swifty. People would come to, like, my dorm room for releases and stuff like that. And I never in a million years thought it would ever lead to making a dime or even guiding my career in a way. So that's just, like, I don't know, that was the universe's plan, I guess. What a great way to go into college.

Like, Taylor Swift is following you, you're the Swifty dorm room. Like, that's, I mean, you got some street credit college from freshman year on. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's do this. There are going to be people that listen to this that are huge fans of Taylor Swift. There are going to be people that might be fans of trading secrets that aren't fans of Taylor Swift. Let's start with this.

And I'm going to give you a shot at this too. Anybody that's listening to this today that is not a fan of Taylor Swift, kind of give me, I mean, you have followed her more of your life than not living. And you know best, I feel like. Talk to those people about why they should give Taylor Swift a chance, maybe what they're not seeing or what they might be missing. Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's so easy on the outside for people to judge

and, you know, they see what Swifties do and go to the concerts and dress up and they're like, oh, they're crazy, they're obsessed, whatever. But it's no different than, you know, all the guys who are fans of sports. Like, you get it. You're like a big buffalo fan, right? Yeah, you go crazy for those games.

It's no different. It's just a different genre. So I would say, honestly, the easiest, answer for me is probably read my book, the story of us, and you'll understand. You might not be a swiftie after, but you'll understand why people are. Yeah. I don't know. What would your answer be, Catherine? Yeah, I think my question for people that don't like her is ultimately like why for something that brings so many people tremendous amounts of joy and connection, I would be interested if there's other things in their life that there may be feeling like they're missing. Because if you

just like look at a bundle of happiness. I don't, I just wish you would also feel that happiness. And it's okay that you don't like her, but I feel like she triggers. She does. Yeah. I always say she has the biggest haters. She's the most passionate fans, but the most passionate haters.

Which to me, like from someone who's like a new Swifty, it doesn't make much sense because, you know, you and I were even talking about this earlier. She's so unproblematic. That's the, like, right? Like there are so many people in this world, whether you don't like their art or their, I don't know, skills or what they bring to the table, they're problematic.

And there's a lot of things you can hang your head on as to why you shouldn't like them. She's so unproblematic. That's why I don't understand the polarization of the noise and the magnitude of some of that noise of those that don't like her. That's what I don't get. It's like keep scrolling. If you see something, remember when she first started dating Travis, and they would show her for like two seconds on the screen. every time the NFL would post something related to her, the comments were filled with men who were pissed that they showed her for two seconds.

But yet Matthew McConaughey is like a Texas A&M fan when he's at a game. He has shown like it was like 45% more times on screen than like Taylor Swift is. Yeah. And yeah, it's also concerning and sad that I feel like so many of her biggest haters are women. That is a bummer as someone who like loves women. and has a business full of women. You understand why some random guy in the internet who loves drinking beer on Sunday

and yelling at his TV isn't a fan of Taylor Swift, but for another woman who's had so many experiences similar to hers, hates her, you're like, what happens? I know, and I would say to that, I think it's at least what I see on social media. It's a lot of people who, a lot of people who hate her are so passionate about another artist,

and I think they hate that Taylor always outstreams their artist or outsells their artist. Interesting. Yeah, you probably have such a deeper insight into like where that hate comes from. Do you deal with online hate? Yeah, I have. And it's, I mean, we'll definitely get into it. But like when I started helping people get concert tickets at face value and I started making a business out of it, I got so I got canceled because the people were like, you should do that for free. That's, yeah, we'll get into that.

Yeah. I mean, we'll get into the ticket works. That's a huge part of your story. And, well, that'll keep everyone listening here. But let's get into how you blew this account up. So talk about people that are just trying to learn and understand social media and build a community. What was it that allowed you to blow the account up? What do you think it was that Taylor Swift followed you?

And we'll talk about the transition to Instagram. Let's start with that. I mean, okay, let me paint a picture for you really quick, really quick about my journey after college. Because that's when everything really changed. So by the time I was out of college, I probably had around like 30K followers. Okay. And I got a remote job. Ironically, at like this small book publishing company.

Okay. And I was doing marketing and PR. And it allowed me to move to Nashville. I wanted to move and meet people and get my life started. And two months after I moved here, my mom was visiting and I was like, I hate my job. I'm so unfulfilled. I don't like working for someone else. I want to quit.

And I don't think I ever. would have quit on my own, at least not for a while. But the next day, I got laid off. And I was like, oh my God, okay, well, I have to, I have to figure something out now because I just moved here. I need to make money. I need to, I want to stay. And so summer keeps going. I, then you guys will understand this because you're big dog people. My, like, sole dog died. Like my, my, my best friend who I had had since I was five and I was 23. So I had her for like 18 years. So I had no job, no money and no dog. And I was like so down. It's okay. I was like down in the dump. This would be a good deal with a song. I know it would be. It would be. I had no idea what my purpose was. I didn't know

what I should be doing when I was applying to other jobs that summer. I wasn't even excited about the jobs I was applying to. Like labels in Nashville, I'm like, but I don't want to work for someone. I don't like it doesn't excite me. And I didn't know why. And so the heiress tour had started that year. So that summer, since I had more time on my hands, I started putting more of my personality and my face onto my page and making videos and talking about things, reporting on things. And as that was happening and I was applying to other jobs, I wasn't able to land another job. And one day, late summer, I call my parents and I'm like, I'm done applying to corporate jobs. I'm going to take an online copywriting course, build my own copywriting business and do my own thing. And they were like,

so supportive. Okay. They're both entrepreneurs. They're like, go for it. So I took that course. I built my website and everything. I had one client. And then there was this one time I was in L.A. and I just serendipitously met my brand partnerships agent that I still have today. And she's a big Swifty and had followed my account. She was like, let me rep you and like get you brand deals. And I was like, you think that's going to work on a fan account? Yeah. And she was like, well, let's try. I mean, you started putting your face on it. So let's, try and see what happens. And I remember getting back to Nashville and the brand deal started rolling in. And I remember my first deal was like 5K. And then they kept rolling in from there. And I was like,

oh my God, I'm making more money than I ever did in my shitty corporate job. Yeah. What brand deals were you getting? Do you remember? The most random one-off things. Like the first one was with some like health and wellness company in New York that wanted to do a Taylor Swift themed giveaway. Like very niche ones. Then I did bigger ones with like sweet Lawrence. It's the gluten-free cookies. I did one with the Super Bowl for them. I did one with like Jeff Hamilton with the Jack celebrity designer jackets he does. And then I did one with like Evermore Resort in Orlando. It's like a Disney competitor. So very random things, but like I mean most of them were like 5K, some were 10K. I think my biggest one was like 25K, 30K. So that kept happening and I stopped doing the copywriting stuff. I was like,

oh my God, I don't have to anymore. So I started doing brand deals essentially full time. And all while that was happening, I mean, we can get into the ticket stuff later, but I was helping people get face value tickets and connecting buyers and sellers for free at this point during the Erez tour. And then eventually the book deal came along earlier the next year. But yeah, the brand deals is where it all started. But I think it all comes down to the Eres tour. And then the shitty summer I had, it all like came crashing together and led to where I am today. What do you think it is? Like, obviously Taylor has pull like no other human in this entire world. But she decided early on when you're in your teens to follow you. Yeah. And she also decided to invite you to special events where one of, I think, 500 people were selected, hand selected by her. What do you think it is about you or your content or your page that Taylor was like,

this is the person? Yeah. This is who I got to connect with. I mean, my content was probably very different when I was like a super excited 14-year-old teen who idolized her, you know, than where I am today. I was always though, I will say like, I guess unproblematic. Like I would never spread rumors and be like the tabloids. Like there are some Swifties who will speculate on certain things like about her body or about her relationships and all that.

And I always like to stay away from that stuff. It's like I don't know her personally. I'm not interested in talking about her personal life like that. So I've always stayed away from that, which I'm sure she respects. And I've just always been super passionate about her music and the secret sessions. there was probably like at her Rhode Island one that I went to maybe like 40, 50 people, I would say. So it was super intimate and it was after she had kind of disappeared. There was only 40, 50 people?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe there was 500 between all the houses, like all the secret sessions she did. But yeah, it was, it felt very intimate. Let's first, I know people are going to listen to this, not knowing what a secret session is. Can you explain what that is? Yes, a secret session is Taylor used to do them for every album where about a month before an album release, she would handpick fans that she invited from social media that she followed and would invite them to her house to listen to the album a month before it's release

and she would kind of go through every song and explain what she wrote each one about and we would just hang out with her and her family. That is wild. How much time like in between each song, are you like communicating and giving feedback or does she wait until the end or how does that work? Yeah, so it was, well, so she first came down and she was sitting and we kind of all chatted and listened to where she had been for the last year, because she had been in hiding before the reputation era.

You know that. And so between each song, it was probably like, I don't know, a solid five minutes of her talking about telling stories from, like, where she had been or what she had been doing and how this song came to be. And then at the very end, she sang all too well on the piano for us, and we were all around, like, I was right next to the piano behind her. We just got goosebumps. Right? We're all, like, circled around the piano,

and she starts singing it and then like halfway in, we all join. And it was, I'll never forget that moment. And then we each had like one-on-one time with her. Real quick, when she took that year off, that was because of Kanye drama. Kim, Kanye, yeah. It was all of it. It was like, that kind of kicked it off. And then I think it was just like a pile on.

People just collectively decided, nope, we don't like her anymore. Every headline on magazines. And it was just the, she was so over-consumed by the media that then it was this, Yeah, collective, we don't want to see you anymore. So she was like, okay, I'll go to. It was, do you remember Snake Gate? Yeah. It was all the snake emojis that people were commenting on her stuff.

And then, like, number one trend on Twitter was Taylor Swift is over party or like ripped Taylor Swift, her career's over. And she almost, like, she talks about it in her documentary Miss Americana. She talks about how she almost quit music. She thought about it because of how bad it had gotten. And, yeah, it all came down from Kim Kardashian editing that phone call to make her seem like a liar and then years later the full unedited version of the phone call leaked

and the media was like we all owe Taylor Swift an apology. I mean you see the way that people can be cancelled today. I know you've kind of gone through that a little bit. It is unbelievable to me that she was canceled at the stage she was canceled at and made the villain

and 10 years later is the most influential musician walking this planet. Yeah. It's almost like Taylor Swift as a brand is a trend and she has gone in and out of being trendy, and that is paired with very strong opinions. Yeah. Except the people have always loved her.

Yeah. And I also think it's a testament to one of the lessons I talk about my book is how she always gets revenge in such a specific way. And her version of revenge is success. And she'll flip the script. Like she took what everyone was using to bully her, the snake, and made it her brand. And probably made millions and millions of dollars off of making the snake her brand and having a sold-out reputation tour.

And she could have just folded and been like, okay, I'm done. But she was like, okay, how can I use this to then reach new heights and places where people can then not touch me? Someone asks you, do you think Taylor Swift's a genius? How do you answer that? Hell yeah. 100%. Marketing business genius. I think she's brilliant in all aspects of what she does.

I don't think there's any question to if she's a genius, like in every single way. her music abilities, her marketing, her business, her leadership, her ability to speak and inspire on the documentary. I mean, I was crying on the documentary. I mean, literally tearing the way that she looked at her dancers and her team and built them up. Also, I think about how busy I get, and I'm just like, oh, I don't have time for that. I can't, you know, I'm trying to move 100 miles an hour. The fact she was handwriting every single letter and her mom has, is like watching her wax them clothes.

It's like, how does this, what can't she do? Yeah. Her ability to be a human still, first and foremost, but then think about what everyone's talents are in life. You usually start to lean one way or the other, like your numbers guy, I'm not that. And she somehow can write some of the most profound humanistic lyrics of our generation, but then also is a marketing genius and to have those within the same person. And I always remember Ed Kelsey talking about how like when she would come to the suite, she was always like cleaning up her dishes and like putting things away. So you have someone who is just like the culmination of success that is still aware of how they're presenting to this man that she loves and his family.

Like that is and that's when you go back to like how does that bother you? Right. That's such a good way to put it. A funny story too to connect the dots there is I won't tell. I won't say the source, but Beyonce was taking her kids to go see Lion King. And when she went to go see Lion King, she went. to the snack stand and she asked for, you know, it was like, whatever it was.

She asked for her kids, like popcorn and penis. She got it and she left. And they were like, what do you do? You didn't, like, but she was already at the seat. So they went to the person that told me this and they're like, what are we supposed to do? And the person goes, it's fucking Beyonce. Like, when do you think the last time she went to a store?

She doesn't know it. Like, do you think she even has a card on her? And so you talk about like, obviously Taylor and Beyonce, same world. love them both. Yeah. But I feel like Taylor would like, of course, have a card out there. And she would tip like $100.

It's no shot on Beyonce. It's just like, I think that's how grounded she is. Speaking of the suite, you have been invited to the suite, right? Donna Kelsey follows you. You've gone to the suite. Was she in the suite? What was that process like? So I didn't go to the suite that Taylor's in.

I went to the Hunt suite because I know Ava and Gracie Hunt. Okay. And so that was pretty cool. and then somehow ended up in, like, the friends and family room downstairs. So at the AFC championship last year, the Chiefs won, but they almost lost, as they always do. And then, like, the last few seconds, they pull it together and they win. And I just remember, like, everyone's freaking out. And I look up after the Chiefs win.

I was at that game. You were at that game? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And my parents. Wait, who were they playing? He was the Bills. Sorry.

But, yeah, I look up when the Chiefs win, and Taylor and Donna Kelsey are right there, like, in front of them. of me, five feet in front of me. Wow. And I was like, okay, like, I might say hi if, but, okay, so a crowd started forming around her, you know, as it does. And I really wanted to say how to Donna and introduce myself because she follows me. Yeah. And I told myself, I was like, okay, once, like, she says hi to all these people and they kind

of fizzle away, then I'll go say hi. And that didn't happen. We all, so she took pictures with people, and then we all kind of headed to the field together. So I was like behind her, like walking to the field. And so I didn't get the chance to say hi. But I'm like, I walk to the field with Taylor Swift. I'm like, that was very full circle for me. That is pretty cool. Going back to those secret sessions, right? That's what they're called. Yeah. Are you like, I can't imagine being that big of a fan of Taylor Swift and you're in her house and there's 50 of you actually giving feedback, like negative feedback. Did that happen? Oh, no.

Or constructive feedback. Oh, no. I mean, well, the album is done. So, like, Like, Oh, so nothing's changing. Nothing's changing. She did show us a rough cut of the ready for it music video, which wasn't done.

So it was unedited. But, no. And also, like, imagine you're in Taylor Swift's house. No one, even if we could give feedback, we wouldn't.

Everyone was freaking out. It was so good. She invites you guys then for, I mean, what's her business strategy to invite you guys? Obviously, connect with you,

but have you guys connect with your communities through the connection she builds with you? For sure. I mean, I, I like,

recognize some people from online that I met there, but also, you know, the headlines then say, like, Taylor Swift invites fans, super fans into her home. And I remember that being everywhere because people were like, oh, my God, one of the biggest pop stars on the planet is having fans into her homes. That's insane. She started that. And then other artists, like, she started the blueprint for all this kind of stuff. And I see all these other artists and they follow everything she's done.

And it works. But, like, it came from her. It's amazing. All right. So let's get back to your business. So you graduated. You're 21 years old and you graduate from Fairfield University. Yeah, in 2022. 22 now, right? So four years you've been going really full time at this. Has the main monetization of your account been through brand partnerships? And if so, of course, we know you have your

book now. What are other ways you've been able to actually make money from this business? Yeah. So number one, brand partnerships. That's probably the leading one. Yeah. Another way is a few years ago, Instagram and Facebook started doing bonus bonuses. So I make money from that. It's all based on like your engagement rate and like I have a good engagement rate on all of my posts. And then this kind of fits into one of my brand partnerships, but it's a little separate. But the subscription platform that I'm a partner with, I also get money from people who subscribe to me to help get them face value tickets. And then I would say I also, I work with, it's also full circle. I I now work with the pop star, and I run all his fan-facing marketing strategy, social media stuff.

You now consult with a pop star? Yeah, I work with the Kidleroy. Oh, wow. Yeah. And you help him with building community and brand. Yeah, basically taking everything I've learned as a fan on that side of things. And also watching what Taylor and her team have done over the years and just doing, you know, applying the same kind of skills to building his fan base. Give us a quick look into a master class of some of the things that you consult.

him on? Like, what are some of the tips and tricks that you provide that maybe someone back home could implement into their business strategy? Yeah. So when I came in with him and I pitched myself, he didn't even have an HQ account. And that's like the Taylor Nation of Taylor, you know? So I think every artist should have an HQ account because a lot of... What's an HQ account? Do you want to explain it? Yeah, like you would follow an HQ account like the headquarters of that person. So it allows like information, engagement, exciting updates. Yeah, giveaways, like anything like that. So Taylor Swift obviously has a headquarter account.

You don't follow Taylor Nation? Taylor Nation, baby. Oh, my gosh. You got to coach me better. Yeah, so Taylor Nation would be like, it's not going to be Taylor's voice, but you know she's signing off on it. She's approving it. It's her team directly.

Yeah, exactly. So it's just a whole other way for a community to kind of latch on to that artist and feel like they're getting more like insider information. Exactly. So Leroy didn't have that. And I was like, you need that. he's pretty big and he doesn't post that much on social media neither does taylor and that's kind of the purpose for hq accounts you're you're giving the fans more like everyday content and they want to feel

like they can connect to the artist and to do that you need to post like very authentic content not everything needs to be so curated you know so that that'd probably be my number one tip for all of social media it's just like authenticity first 100% does your business cycles this is kind of while, but your business cycles are moving with Taylor's life, right? Like if Taylor, we've, we've talked about some of the polarizing hate she receives, but if she's in, let's say, like a negative spotlight, that probably also negatively impacts your business. But with everything happening the way it's happened in the last few years, you probably also see a correlation to your revenue. I mean, do you start planning ahead? Like, are you starting to think, how can I make sure this business is

well positioned for the wedding, maybe kids, things like that? Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't, I have so much going on all the time that I kind of take the Taylor stuff like day by day because you never know what she's going to do. So with the wedding stuff like yeah, I talked to my agent about like, okay, what brands could we maybe work with around that? And like there's this one I might work with. That's a liquor company and making a French blonde and oh like Taylor will probably have those at her wedding. It's one of her favorite drinks. So like there's so many ways you can find brand partners that would, you can honestly make any brand refer to Taylor Swift in in some capacity in a video, you know, literally anything. Cats, like, whatever it is. So, yes, but you're

right. Taylor's trajectory has changed my trajectory because at the beginning of the Eros Tour, I had like 32,000 followers, and by the end of the Eros Tour, I had like over 500K, 600K. Whoa, you're from 32 to over, you're at 600 now, just from the ERIS Tour. Yeah, the ERIS store changed at all. I mean, my account blew up at the same time as I finally started putting my own personality and face into it. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to keep doing that. And I was posting so much content every day because it was my main focus for that summer. And boom, it blew up. And then I started doing the concert ticket stuff. And I think that's probably a good segue to talk about that. So you get involved in this ticket war. And this becomes a big part of your brand where you got a lot

support for it, but there's also some noise. Oh, yeah. Talk to me about how you got involved, why you got involved, and what the impact of your involvement led to. Yeah. So the way it started was people would DM me and say, like, I have extra tickets and I want another Swifty to get them at face value. And so that, I mean, it all started because of those people, because they could have

easily gone to, like, Stubhub and resold them, you know? And I started helping connect buyers and sellers through my Instagram account. So for majority of the Erosaur, I was doing that for, for, free. And it did take a lot of time. And as we were approaching the end of the Erosaur, probably the last four months, people were like scrambling to see it before it was over. So, and I was getting so many submissions, ticket submissions, and I couldn't really handle the volume. And at the same time, I got approached by this subscription company. And they were like, hey, we want you to use our platform and post exclusive content on it. And I was like, okay, well, exclusive content. For a lot of people,

that's like bikini pictures. I'm not doing that. I'm not interested in that. To find exclusive content. I'm not making any Taylor Swift updates exclusive content because like you can get that online. I'm not doing that. So I started.

I just like one day decided. I was like, you know what? I'm probably going to get canceled for this. But I am going to make this more of an official ticket business and have like a Google form with all the questions and everything I need to know to and then like verification, all that. so I know it's not a scam.

And then I am going to only post those tickets at face value on the subscription platform. And all people have to do if they want a chance to get those tickets is pay like three bucks a month. So it's nothing, nothing. And there was like a bundle deal. Like if you want three months instead of one, it's like, I don't know, $8 or whatever it was. And so I started doing that. And I will never forget. I had just gotten back from a family vacation.

And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to post about it. So I make my first grid post about it and I got a ton of subscribers, but then I got a lot of like, hey, I got texts from people like, are you okay? And I was like, wait, why? What's going on? They're like, you're getting like majorly canceled on Twitter. And I was like, oh, I kind of expected that. And because there were people on Twitter, there was like a team of these four girls that were helping people get tickets and stuff. And I guess they probably were doing it for free. But I'm like, I'm a one man, you know, show. I was doing it all myself. I was getting so many submissions. I needed to make money because I had no job. I had the brand deals, but and so I I yeah, I mean, I was providing a service. So it was just mind boggling to me that I got hate for doing like providing a service for people. And and I was doing it first and foremost because I wanted to help people see the ERISTor and I hate ticket master. And so I'm like it all comes from a place of passion. And of course like making money comes along with it. But that wasn't like the primary reason why I did it.

Well, first of all, what is less than $3, like at all anymore? So $3 is so menial when you're thinking about something that, to your point, everyone wants to go to, everyone wants access to. And then, like, your brand also being a Swifty, Taylor Swift's whole thing is like girl boss, like make your money, get your bag. Yeah. And so for $3 when, also how many people got scam during the Eros tour? So many. I had girlfriends. One of my girlfriends sent somebody $3,000.

I know. No way. Three grand. And she got scammed. So to also have like, if it's you and you're connected to a platform, their safety in, this isn't fake. So if I get connected to somebody through this, then I know that it's real. So that's, I'm sorry that happened. It's okay.

I mean, you grow from things like that. But I learned a lot. But also, I would spend so much time verifying those tickets. Like, I would talk to the sales. and like go through this whole process like screen recordings and all because you can't edit those and blah blah blah show me these this detail these details all that and then when I would connect the buyer with the seller I would like monitor that entire conversation make sure they were doing it right using PayPal goods and services doing one ticket at a time like all this stuff I never ran into

one scam that actually reminds me of what I do people all the time they're like you have an adoption fee and I'm like well yeah like it costs me money to take care of the dogs but it It's almost like because you're doing this thing that you love, people get confused, like why you wouldn't just do it. And it's like, well, time is money. And that's a lot of work when you have that many people submitting forms. And not to play the feminist card, but if I were a man who did it, they'd be like, oh my God, good going.

You should charge like 30 bucks per month. Exactly. For my standpoint, I'm like, what do you mean? Because I'm very black and white with numbers. It's like, why would someone not pay for this? What's your alternative? either get scammed or go pay 4X for a ticket. You have someone that's doing the due diligence to make sure you can get a face value ticket.

What do you mean? Right. Like, what is even the argument? Airlines want to charge you like $50 a flight to have like security of your flight. And you're like, I'm just charging you three bucks to like connect to somebody. And that's like no one is forced to subscribe. That was my whole argument. I'm like in every caption.

So every post after that that I would make about like these are the tickets I just posted. Like go check them out. At the bottom I would say, by the way, no one is forcing. you to subscribe. So stop complaining. Or just go get the tickets yourself. Or that. Right. And risk. And risk four, five, six. And spend your time vetting this person, making sure that the tickets are real. Yeah. So how did you actually get the face value tickets? What was that? It was all because of the Swifties who wanted other Swifties. I couldn't have done it without them. They wanted other Swifties to be able to go at face value. So you brokered the two. Essentially, yeah. Interesting. Yeah. That also doesn't say something about

it's 50s, that if I got those tickets and I could turn around and pay my mortgage in the blink of an eye. Yeah. But I think that collectively, the real fans were like, this is such a rare experience. We don't know when she's going to go on tour again. This tour will never even remotely get recreated. If she ever tours again, it's going to be like for an album. Not like I'm going to get on stage for borderline four hours and do all of my albums.

Yeah. But it was like, this means more to me to give these tickets to somebody for what I paid than to like financially benefit from it. I think shows like the heart of like the fandom. Absolutely. They're good people. Most of them are good people. Yeah. You have the one-offs. But yeah. And so I started doing that for other artists that were on tour that people wanted to go see Gracie Abrams, Sabrina Carpenter. Wow. And it's the same process. You work with the community base to screen them and make sure. Yeah. So smart. What's the most you ever paid for a Taylor Swift ticket? Oh. Well, so I'm lucky. I have a lot of like good

connections with some of the stadium people. So they kind of know me from like when I would go to Taylor's Tours when I was 15. So they always helped me out at getting face value tickets for myself. Some, the most I paid was probably like maybe 1,200 for a ticket. And then I got really lucky. I made like my entire family and my friends like join the wait list pre-sale thing, the ticket master stuff. And a lot of, a lot of us got lucky with those. That's amazing. How about you? What's the most of you ever paid for a Taylor Swift ticket? Her heirs tour. And I actually, got a good deal with it too just through some people that I knew through wags. How much was it?

I was at like the 50-yard line, probably halfway up the arena, and I think I paid 900 each. Okay. Yeah, not bad. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy because when I used to see Taylor on tour, I'm sure you know, it was like 300 max to see her front row floor. Yeah. So I would go to so many shows. Yeah. When I saw her at Ford Field on like the Red Tour, it was, I don't know, 200 or or something. Not to mention you've been in her house. I mean, listening to her that is, that's... The first 10 line items of my resume, if I was you, would just spend every interaction that you've had. Yeah. And another line item you got, New York Times bestseller. So did you ever in a million years think that you would get a book deal from this account? And how did that book deal come to fruition? No. So I never thought I would get a book deal from this account. I never thought anything other than like my hobby would come from this account. And it's funny, I had like a notes list in my phone of, but,

bucket list life goals. One of them was write a book. But never in a million years did I think it would be what it's about. You know, I thought it would be like down the line. I'd write about the things I've learned through life or wisdom, entrepreneurship, whatever. Not this, but it's even better. I mean, the way it came about was, it was January, 2004, and I texted my agent and I was like, I want to write a book book. And she was like, that's great, Olivia, but you need a book agent, you need to write a book proposal, you need to get a book deal, all this stuff. And I was like, yeah, I don't no shit about that. So I was like, okay, I was 23 at the time. I'm like, maybe I'll table that for when I'm closer to 30 and do something with it then. Three days later, I'm on the phone with my agent,

and I get an email. And I'm like, holy shit, you will not believe the email I just got. It was from a literary agent in Brooklyn, New York. And she was like, hey, Olivia, me and my husband run a literary agency. We read about you in an article, and we were a big, swift-y family. And we have this book idea and we kind of want someone to like take it and run with it and build it into their own idea. But we want it to be for Swifties and we think we think you'd be the perfect person to write it. Wow. So I spent that whole spring writing a book proposal and then in May within like two weeks of them pitching it to publishers. I met with a couple and I landed a deal with Simon & Schuster. You've talked a little bit about monetization through brand deals on a book deal. What does monetization

look like for you? Yeah, I mean, I didn't know before, but like you get paid a third. upon signing the contract, a third of your advance, and then you get paid the second third when you turn in the manuscript, and then the last third when it's published. So, I mean, it wasn't, like, it wasn't six figures, but it was, like, pretty close. That's all. And, yeah, and I would have, I always tell people,

I would have written it for free. It was such a passion project for me, and our story is so unique as a fandom, and especially, like, what I've personally experienced and how I built a career out of it and everything. It's just such a unique story that I want people to know. And so truly, I had the most fun time writing it. That is so cool.

What I would say selling books is one of the hardest things to do. It's easy to sell a lot of things out there. I would joke around. I had two books that I published and went through the whole tour and everything. And I would say, like, I feel like I could sell like a $3,000 course easier than a $20 book. It's hard to sell books. What do you think you've learned from Taylor Swift's marketing? strategies that you might have deployed with book sales that helped out.

I think number one thing is storytelling. You know, if she's the best at it. And through my marketing, I just told a story in each of my marketing videos for the book. And they were all true stories. It's like where I started, where I am now, and like how this book came about. And it's kind of like the people love a story where, you know, everything ends up being okay in the end, like the hero arc. and I didn't know what I was doing a few years ago

and then I got this book deal and everything and made a career out of this account and so I think that's really what I clung to for this I just I mean I every single video I would post about this book was either my story or something in the book that would get them excited I Easter egged a lot and I learned that from Taylor too

I would get them excited and one of the big things at least for this book was there's sprayed edges on the edge of the pages. And that was, it's a limited edition thing. And Swifties love little details like that. And they love limited edition things. Like Taylor's Vinals, which people also complain about all her vinyl variants,

but people buy them. So yeah, I did the limited edition sprayed edges. I knew it would add to the aesthetic, the vintage aesthetic of the book. And I knew that Swifties would cling on to that. And they did. And it helped pre-orders so, so immensely. I mean, I hit,

I surpassed my pre-order goal by the time my book was published. What was your pre-order goal? My pre-order goal was 3,000. Brilliant. It's brilliant. And, yeah, I think I was at, like, by the time the book came out, 3,600 or something. Wow. I think it was not surprising about any of that is everything that you started was from the root of a genuine passion and curiosity and everything that you've also said has been so authentic.

So I think, you know, when you see certain people have this really quick rise and you shouldn't blame them either. and then they want to write a book or come out with a perfume or whatever it is that pertains to what their fan base is. But I think that the celebration of you being able to be a successful book writer is so reflective of your story, the entirety of it, you know, is such a swifty thing in and of itself. So it's really impressive. Well, thank you.

And honestly, they were like the swifties who follow me were so supportive about the book. I remember when I teased the announcement of the book. And it had like, you know, I posted a video countdown. It had over a million views. And everyone in the comments was like, oh, my God, are you starting a podcast? I was like, ooh, maybe one day. But I just, I teased it. And some people got it right.

They were like, oh, my God, you're writing a book called The Story of Us. Because I had little clues, like friendship bracelets with certain, like, letters and certain things. It was like, I did it the Taylor Way. And, yeah, it was so awesome to see how everyone, like, celebrated my success. and the book and everything. And everyone was so excited about it. And I think another thing I did was it's not just about me. It's about all of us.

And I think everyone wants to read a story that involves them. And, you know, it's relatable. So a lot of times, like, when I was marketing it, I'm like, this is our collective story. Like, you want to read about yourself? Read the book. Give yourself kudos, though, because I think people are probably also looking at you and celebrating you. And it's, like, it's inspiring because most people can't make a dollar from,

a passion and as someone who also does my passion for work, yours is even so much more niche is the fandom of it all that I think seeing somebody have that level of success out of something that they just cared about gives a lot of people. I would think especially younger generations like hope of like if you really do love something and you you care about it that much and you're going to build it in like if you're putting the little Easter eggs in, I can't think of anything that reflects what you're actually like then writing about more. Yeah. That people want to get in on that and support it. Yeah.

Well, thank you. Yeah, and I will say people could probably tell how passionate I am about it when I talk about it because I am. I still am, even after all these years. So I think that probably comes across on socials too. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. What story of all the stories that you told in the story of us have you seen that readers DM you or message you most about that they're just like, this is the one that hit?

Okay, there's so many. But, I mean, one of them might be that I briefly, I don't go into too much. detail about it, but what I told you about the AFC championship, like being right next to Taylor, people are like, oh my God, you were right next to her? And I'm like, yeah, I didn't really want to bother her. I guess the secret session people love to hear about. One random story that happened to me was when Taylor was going on the New Heights podcast last August, I was supposed to be on a flight to Connecticut. And I was like, oh, my God, well, and it was a flight where you don't have Wi-Fi, like, if budget airline can't pay for Wi-Fi. And I was like, I need to be

available to, like, report on it. I can't land. And then everyone already watch. and knows what's happening and I don't. So I moved my flight and I had to take an indirect flight. And I'm at the Nashville airport and my first flight is getting delayed like again and again. I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to miss my second flight. And these two girls come up to me and they're like, hey, are you Olivia like Swifties for eternity?

I was like, yeah, turns out we're going to the same final destination. And I told them I was kidding. But I was like, well, if we missed our second flight, we could like rent a car together and drive to Connecticut. it, we missed our second flight, and we rented a car and drove to Connecticut. Oh, my gosh. Get out of it. So that's a good story because I'm like, it was so cool.

Like you instantly like trust another Swifty. They're cool. They're nice. And yeah, so I watched the podcast from the backseat of the car while I was like reporting on it on Instagram. Yeah. I just said that to him this morning. I said there is an instant connection and safety and joy of that.

Like at Wags, we have. new girls starting all the time and it's kind of like are you a swifty or you're not at swifty and that the simplicity of just like we both like this same thing and I don't really need to know anything else about you now to feel like I'm interested in having a conversation and in a world with like so much negativity and polarity it's just this like no we just love the same music she's the one person that brings people together and it's funny you say that because even my dad last night I was on face time with him and he's like you know I don't know how I heard but I heard that the head of some like He's my dad's a lawyer.

He's like, the head of some, like other firm, like big, big firm is a big Swifty. And so I connected with him over that. And I sent him 10 books for him and all his, like, people. And they loved it. And he's like, it's so crazy that, like, just you find out someone's a Taylor fan. And boom, instant point of, like, you can talk about something. And, like, if you're not a Swifty, you know a diehard Swifty in your life. So there's always like, oh, yeah, my wife or my sister or my daughter.

So my dad is 65 and he's a big music collector and he has an insane amount of like Taylor Swift artwork and he has all of her albums. And so even that, right, you have like 65 year old men from Michigan and nine year old girls in Connecticut that both love her equally. Yeah. The community, it's like, yeah, it's so special. I think the way that they're engaged is unlike anything. And I think inspiring is a big word. I'm going to ask a question that kind of goes against this grain then. What would you say is the biggest disagreement among Swifties?

For how close they are and how tight that community is, what do you think it is that they disagree most about? I'd say like her autonomy and privacy. I think that there are some Swifties that want to just know everything and anything and would be willing to, to your point, even the people who run different accounts and like what they would be willing to say or share or speculate on versus I think you and I would agree that first and foremost, this is like breaking the third wall.

But like I would just want Taylor Swift to like be happy and like live a normal life and like would not feel privy or want the access to her that a fan shouldn't have. And I think some people feel like so obsessed with her that it's like, no, I deserve that information or I should search for that information. It's almost like people don't see her as a human being a lot of the time. Some Swifties do to your point, some don't. I know for me when I was young and I met her at that point, I idolized her, you know, but as I've gotten old, I'm 26 now, I just respect the shit out of her. I admire her. I think she's so badass in her business and I think she's a great person, but I don't idolize her the way I used to. You know, I just, it's morphed into more of like a respect.

I don't need to know about all your private life. Go be happy with Travis, you know? Wait, no, I know. I think that feels like that was probably. I feel like when they first got together, a lot of Swifties were divided on if this was the right. I think my algorithm didn't pick as much of that up. Most of the people in my life that didn't like Travis and Taylor didn't like Taylor,

or didn't already like Travis. I think a lot of Travis's fans didn't like Taylor at first. I would agree with that. The other thing that we also, no one can agree on is if and when. I think we know now, but I wasn't say reputation. Oh. When we first started dating, it was like every three weeks. It was like a new Easter egg if reputation was going to drop.

And it never did. Yeah. Well, it probably never will. But no one can agree on that. Hopefully we'll get the vault tracks one day. But I would say from social media, from like the stuff that I see one of the big, I mean, what would your guess be as to what the big disagreement is in the fandom? Now that I'm thinking about it politics.

Yes. Yeah. It took me a second, actually. Yeah. That makes sense. I love your response to this always. separate the art from the artist. Yeah, I would also be interested

how many people that are actually Swifties deeply disagree with her politics. I don't really know that you could be like, I'm a true hardcore Swifty and then have that much of a problem with her politics so they either put it aside. But I think people who don't like her certainly have the stance of,

you're an artist, don't use your platform, like don't use your voice, like stay in your lane. Yeah. So I think she's posted every, the last two elections, at least, about who she voted for and to vote. But she also, first and foremost, always just says, go vote. Yeah. I don't think she tries to sway people too much.

Thank you guys for answering that. The future of your business. What are, like, what are like revenue goals? Where do you want to take it? What's next? You got New York Times best seller. You're consulting other artists. Talk to me about like you're building the business model from a financial perspective,

growth perspective. Walk us through what the plan looks like. Yeah. I mean, I think I'll always run Swifties for eternity. because it's, you know, for eternity. I have to. You have to. But I'm also, I'll always be passionate about the community and building that community.

That's like the fun part of my job. Actually, every part of my job I think is fun, so I shouldn't say that. But I think now that the book is launched and my goal was New York Times bestseller, that was my goal. So I'm so stoked that I reached that. And now that that's out, I feel like I have so much more time on my hands to, like, explore other things. And I think I really want to take on another artist soon.

So I have Leroy, but I want to take on another one. And then there's something that I am, you know, is in the works that I can't really talk about yet, but that I hope really works out. And everything I always do, I think, well, it'll always come from a place of passion. But I think I'll always want to fight the good fight for the fans. So whether that's like more ticket stuff or anything that the fans would just love and what I would love to see as a fan, I want to do in more of like a, I don't know, an entrepreneurial way and find ways to make the fandom experience even better going forward.

I love it. You have such a unique subset of skills for an artist to want to hire. You're almost like the opposite of like an Olivia Pope from Scandal. Oh, yeah. She's like the PR crisis. You're like the person that has such an insight into, to your point, the largest group of fans ever, arguably. Yeah.

And to have that as a, you have that as both the business owner and the user. Yeah. And to be able to pitch that into a business model, I think you could have a ton of success from. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I would love to one day have in my own agency, maybe down the line and have, you know, a bunch of artists on my roster. And then eventually hire more people to take on other artists when I can't handle all the volume. So I don't know. I'm very much a like take it day by day kind of person.

I know like you asked me about what's your long term plan. I feel like anything can happen to you at any point in your life. Like the book deal just came boom. I like put it out in the universe three days later it came to me, you know. Well, it certainly worked for you too. They did. It really worked. And everything has been taking it day by day.

Right. And even when, you know, shit was hitting the fan a few years ago and I had no idea what my life was going to look like, everything just worked out better than I ever could have imagined. And so I try to just lead life with that kind of mindset. Everything's going to work out even better than I want it to. And that way, never really worry or stress about what's next because I always know there's opportunities here and there. And I get to choose what is worth my time and what I want to invest in. And I don't have to just do anything, you know.

It's a great mindset to have. Taylor said that on the New Heights podcast. Remember, she was like, not everyone or everything deserves your time. You're right. Your energy is expensive. Oh, yeah. That line. Not everyone wants to afford it.

That's a good line. Yeah, yeah, you are, yeah, your time is expensive. Yeah, treated as so. The only thing we got, speaking of expensive time, the only thing we got to talk about that we haven't talked about is the wedding. Have you done any research? Is there any speculation? Anything you can comment on that you might have insight or thought about?

I'm asked that all the time. Like, even on the news, they'll be like, so, what do you know about the wedding? Yeah, yeah. I have heard some things, and I don't really know what to believe, but I also don't like to very much speculate about it publicly. Like, I've heard things from, I think, pretty reliable sources, but yeah, I kind of like to keep that to myself because I don't want to add to the noise. And we'll know when we know. I mean, the rumor that's out there in the media is like Fourth of July, New York, it would be genius if you. She spread misinformation on purpose to get people confused, and then the wedding just happens and people find out after.

But maybe she doesn't care of people, no. She's always 70,000 steps ahead of everyone else. I do think it's going to be soon, though. I do too. Yeah. And what about someone who's in the market for a ring? Tell me about the ring. Do you know much about it?

About her wedding ring? Yeah. I know I read articles about an interview from what's her name, Kindred Lubbock, I think, is her name, something like that. She designed the ring with Travis. It's like, I don't know, it's beautiful. It looks perfectly like Taylor. Like that's what it reminds me of very, very vintage aesthetic, timeless. I remember reading about something.

There's like 13 something in it. I forget. I'm not good with that. It's an elongated cushion cut. Thank you. Of course, you know, I'm not in the market for a ring. I'm single, so I don't know anything about rings at the moment. but

Elongated Astrid Astrid All right Well let's Let's wrap with a little bit of rapid fire I mean you got to have

some questions on the rapid fire But I mean I'll start Your favorite era Favorite era Reputation because of how intimate it felt between like the fans

and Taylor A lot of people In the general public Who used to be fans left and you know canceled her And then at the shows I would recognize

Like half of the floor They were all Tumblr people And so we would all like get together, travel to shows together. So that was my favorite era. And I think Taylor was so grateful to like see familiar faces at the shows. Every time she would see us, she would like wave at the barricade. So it was cool that like we all stayed even though she had gotten canceled.

But I also loved, my favorite album is probably the tortured poets department. Fair, fair. Same. Okay, good taste. We moved on way too fast. Way too fast. I can listen to Torture Poets Department like on the stair steer steper. Like it doesn't matter.

Oh, I work out to it. It's not the sad, it's not the saddest album by a long shot, but it's, I mean, it's heavy, it's deep, it's lyrically complicated, but I don't care. Oh my God, it's tragic. It honestly, it's like a tragic love story. Yes. It kind of makes me feel the way I felt when I finished the movie Weathering Heights. Have you seen it in theaters? That is such a good example.

Right? Yeah. It just like leaves you. It just leaves you like, oh my God, heavy. Yeah. But I mean, I mean, I mean, yeah. But for some reason, I love sad music. I love tragic music because I actually don't know why.

I am not like a sad person, but I lean toward sad music. I think it's, I think that's very common. I think that people who inherently feel pretty light are like, I need to like feel something. Like, yeah. My question would be, you mentioned the all too well and that like moment never leaving you, but from all the other little moments that you've had with her or nuggets of information that she's shared, is there anything that has ever really stuck with you, whether that was

something she shared about a song or her life or just wisdom. There was something she said at the reputation secret session that always stuck with me. And it was that she had learned from, you know, being canceled and her time away from the public eye and the media that she wanted to have a big career and a small life. And she never thought that she could have both of those things at the same time. She thought you need a big life, a big public life if you have a big career. But she mastered the craft of having a big career. I mean, look at her now and still managing to keep her life small and private.

So that always stuck with me. And she's, you know, stayed true to that ever since. I love that. That's a beautiful quote. Yeah. It's a beautiful quote. Any other questions you got? No, I think just things.

I think that, you know, as someone who has loved her also very uncomplicated since she first came out, I think that it's really easy to fall into negativity. and pass that along. And I think that you've built your entire life and now career surrounding something that makes people really happy. And I commend that. Oh, thank you. Well, you too. I love what you do.

I love that we both found a passion and followed it, you know. It's hard to do. If only she liked dogs, it's like my biggest. That's the thing. I'm a big dog person. I've never been a cat person. And I never say that, but I know. I'm saying it.

I'm allergic to cats. So, like, people come into wags. And they're like, you don't save cats. I'm like, well, I don't, like, have a vendetta against them. Yeah. I'm allergic to them. But, yeah, there's, like, clips actually of Taylor Swift interacting with dogs. And she's always like, ew, ugh.

Get away from me. You're too big. Because her mom has, like, great days. The great day named Kitty. I know. It's crazy. I do love how passionate she is about, like, taking care of animals, especially somebody at that caliber.

They often, like, are not great pet owners. And Olivia, and, like, they're always, like, traveling with her and in her music videos. And it's very sweet. Yeah. Wait, I have a question for you, Jason. Yes. What's your favorite album? Oh, I am reputation.

Yeah. She got, that's how it started. That's how it, that's where it all began. I locked him in a car for three hours. You're driving. And you're driving every single song. Oh, and I was writing notes. You were.

Wow. I was getting the story about it all. And then as I got the story about it all, I wanted to know more. Then I went down the rabbit hole on Joe. I was like, I want to know everything about Joe. Where is Joe now? Where did she live? How did it happened?

Why did she take off her story? so long. You retain information very easily, so then as I'm telling the story and characters are coming into the story, it would be like, wait, pause. I'm like, yes. This is everything I've ever wanted is just for people to ask me questions

about Taylor Swift, and you love to ask questions. It was a really good harmony of getting him into the... I bet you had fun explaining getaway car. That's a good one. Oh my gosh, that's a great one. Call it what you want, especially with like the little clip that has always been like so cute.

online. Just like, again, I wish Joe so well. Yeah. But, yeah, being able to, oh, or when she got canceled. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When talking about, you know, look what you made me do and all of these different. Yeah, all her little, her little one-liners that would pass over somebody else's head so fast. Yeah.

And I'm like, no, that. Yeah. That's an important one. And we did it while she was driving. So I had my iPad out and I was just like firing away with like, all right, I want to see this video. I want to, you know, I want to know what happened here and what happened here. And I think I think this storytelling is what brings you in because you just want to know more. Yeah.

Or it's a movie that you just want to keep watching the sequels. And there's always a sequel. And they're always so connected. It's wild how connected the storytelling is. Yeah. Well, I think that's what sets her apart from every other artist, you know. Like even things that don't maybe make her look the best, like guilty as sin. It's one of my favorite songs ever.

It may not, you know, portray her in the perfect. light, but she's not afraid to remain vulnerable and just like be honest because we all have emotions that we wish we could control, but we all experience very similar things at different points in our life. And so I think it's so great that she has never shied away from being so detailed and honest in her lyrics. Yeah, in the New York Times interview, she was talking about how she's always tried to maintain her level of observation and curiosity surrounding everything that we all have

when we're teenagers, everything is heightened, it's dramatic. And she's like, I've tried to like hold on to that every fiber of being to continue being a good songwriter. And she also had shared that whenever she has a thought probably similar to guilty as sin, it's like, do I want to put this out there for people to judge, for people to consume and, like, speculate what she's talking about. But she's like, but most humans don't have unique thoughts. We all have things that we've felt that other people have felt.

And so she's like, well, if I feel this way, other people probably do too. And I think that's what has maintained her relatability, even though she's Taylor Swift. Yeah. And everybody, I'm sure a lot of people could relate to a song like Guilty S.N. You feel like you're trapped in a relationship that you really want to get out of. But like it's your comfort and all that. And you're having thoughts about someone else. You're like, okay, I probably shouldn't be in this relationship anymore.

You know, it's so relatable. And her brilliance. I think most people take a punch. And when you take a punch, you do one or two things. You're like, I'm going to take the high road and just like, walk away or you're going to just punch back and sometimes that could look stupid. Her brilliance to like take the punch and use the punch is a mechanism to platform her to the next level and spin it. The snake being. The snake being example. It's amazing. She's done it over and over and over again.

It's like the satisfaction of seeing her to your point get her revenge, if you will, years and years later. Don't step into the ring with Taylor Swift. That is for sure. All right. Well, we got to wrap with the trading secret. So one trading secret, you've had such an interesting career track. in such a short period of time. I mean, it hasn't been a short period of time given the fact you started this when you're 13. But since you went full time, think about what you've done in that short period of time.

It's amazing. What trading secret can you leave us with? There's so many. But I mean, I guess I kind of said it earlier, but I think being authentic to who you are and trying to blend your passion into the work that you do, which actually they kind of feed each other.

You know, you follow your passion. It feeds your and fuels your authenticity. I think that's what I would say. And even if you're not at a point where you can do your passion as a full-time job, try to do it on the side until you can eventually, hopefully one day, use the money that you've made from a job you may not like and not be passionate about to later fuel that passion and hopefully one day make it a full-time job. I love it.

Perfectly said. This was an amazing podcast. Congratulations on everything you've achieved. Olivia, where can everyone find everything you have going on? Yeah, well, you can follow my personal at Olivia Levin on Instagram or at Swifties for Eternity on Instagram. And you can buy The Story of Us anywhere you buy your books, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, wherever. Let's go. Olivia, thank you for being on this episode, Trane Secrets.

And Catherine, for the first time ever, maybe many more. Thank you for being a co-host on Trane Secrets. Thank you for having me. And so good to meet you. It's so good to meet you, too.