Trading Secrets - 31: Nick Viall: No Income, No Plan, 110k Followers and a Dream…His LA Move and More...

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Nick Viall talks to Jason all about the money he made from his various TV appearances within the Bachelor franchise and his negotiations that took place, going from being in a sales background to selling himself, taking calculated risks to get to where he is today, betting on himself and how that has paid off, his move to LA, if you can really rebrand yourself from being on The Bachelor and who has done it successfully, and the ups and downs along the way. It’s absolutely another episode you can’t afford to miss. For All Access Content - join our networking group for less than 30 cents a day! Truebill.com/secrets to save thousands a year drinktrade.com/secrets promo code SECRETS for your first bag free + $5 off your bundle Public.com/tradingsecrets code TRADINGSECRETS Storyworth.com/secrets to save $10 on your first purchase Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Happy Monday. I am really excited about this episode because we now have another Bachelor alum coming on. I think what you're going to find interesting about this episode is, is that we do a, where were you then, where are you now type interview. So this interview is with Nick Vial. Nick has been on literally every show other than Winter Games.

But it's very interesting to hear the career strategy, what happens in between shows, how much money Nick had to the dollar left in his account when he decided to move to L.A. Why did you even move to L.A., Nick? We get into it. He explains everything and where he was there. and where he is now.

This will be a two-part series. The first part is really laying down the foundation of where he was then and why he did what he did. And what's fascinating is he almost didn't go back to paradise. Think about how different his life would be. So you're going to hear some wild career stories, some very interesting financial facts from Nick, and you're probably going to hear a side or story from him you haven't heard yet. Where was he then? Where is he now?

Part one is this week. Part 2 will be next week. Now, let's ring in the bell with Nick Baile. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. If you're part of Bachelor Nation, you'll definitely know who our guest is today, the one and only Nick Baile. Nick has been involved with the Bachelor Nation since 2014. He was a finalist on Andy Dorfman's season,

a runner-up on Caitlin's season, the next year in 2015. Yes, that's my fiancé. What a fucking world, huh? He then went on to Paradise in 2016, finally became The Bachelor in 17. Many people love Nick, but some people weren't the biggest fans of Nick, which most importantly meant plenty of viewers for the network.

And of course, most importantly in this world, monster ratings. After The Bachelor, he then competed on dancing with the stars. In 2018, he and his sister started Natural Habits Essential Oils. He is the host of a very successful podcast of BioFiles and much more. A wild resume and career, and I can't wait to dive into it with you today. Nick, thank you so much for coming out and being here today. Good to be here, Jason. Thanks for having me.

It's a beautiful thing. And we're live in person for everyone out there. Yeah. Yeah. Tomorrow, Caitlin is announcing, or actually tonight, she's announcing that she'll be on dancing with the stars going on the tour. And I said, you know what, what would be better than digging up the resume, going to one of her exes, which, by the way, everyone should know, we are friends. We spent Thanksgiving together. Yeah. I mean, so we go back, we're buddies, and life is good. But we're here to talk to this.

This is such a weird, strong word in this world, though, don't you think? I think so. Like, do you consider Becca Kufrin in X? I don't. I don't. Yeah. I don't. Do you consider, all right, who in the world do?

And this, we're going a little off topic, which I kind of like, but who do you consider an X? From Bachelor world? Yeah. Vanessa for sure. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. And then if I were to, like, stat, rank it. Yeah.

I think number two would be Jen Saviano, just because we had a relationship outside of the show a little bit before Paradise and a little bit after Paradise. Okay. So they're like I, we talked and communicated and hung out in the real world. Gotcha. And that was honestly, it would probably be the only two in my mind. Certainly not Andy because I only knew her like in that Bachelor world.

Sure, sure. Caitlin's was more of a, like, prior to the show, kind of like a silly, like, love affair in a sense that was all very virtual, it was part, you know. And so I definitely don't consider Caitlin and Andy X's in a traditional sense. Like, they are people who, and I'm sure maybe you feel the same way about Becca Kufrin, but, like, certainly memorable moments.

And they have, like, a certainly place in, like, my mind in terms of, like, significant things I'll remember when my life flashes before my eyes. But, like, in the traditional, like, X, not, yeah. Yeah, like, if you're at a conversation with a good friend at dinner and you're talking about X's, I agree with you. Becca Kufant for me, like, would never come up in conversation ever. And that's kind of like the interesting thing about this world, the reality versus, like, actually living in the Bachelor world. And you've lived in this Bachelor world. I mean, it's been seven years now, right? And so it started 2004. I guess, yeah.

And everything, would you, is it a fair assumption to say that from 2014 to 2021 making the decision to go on the show, your life has changed in every which way? No, yeah, sure. I mean, it didn't at first, after I first went on Andy season, I just went right back to my life before I went on Andy season. So between Andy and Caitlin's season, I just, yeah, I had every plan, and I did go back. I went back to work. I just worked. My life in between Andy and Caitlin's season was exactly like my life before I went on the show. And the world, like the world was Bachelor World and the opportunities that presented themselves after the show were very different than what they were now.

Like, you know, but I didn't do bar appearances. I didn't do anything like that. I didn't monetize the experience at all. I mean, I think the first dollar I ever made as a result of going on the show was like three or four months after Caitlin's season, and I did, it was for, what's the sunglasses that were really?

My first sponsored post was... I'm trying to think which ones they might have. It's the sunglasses that really like took off... Diff eyewear. Diff, I wear. That was it, huh? It was a Diff, eyewear. I love that.

Instagram post. All right. So that's the first dollar you made. Now, I pulled up a picture of you, Nick, because I'm looking at your resume, I'm doing the research. I saw that in a couple articles, you said that you were always the kind of guy that was working, right? You said at a young age, you'd be working for $2 an hour in the neighborhood.

I saw that you were a business manager at your school newspaper. You worked at construction in college. You even worked at a grocery store in high school. It's an assistant produce manager. And so another thing I was looking at was I couldn't figure out. Are you a double major in accounting in supply, or are you a major in business administration? No, double major in accounting and supply chain management. Okay. Which is one of those like double majors. They had to take like 15 more credits in as a double major. Because a lot of overlap. Yeah,

of course. It was an efficient double major, but it was a double major nonetheless. And the point from the school of business, though. From the school of business. Let's get that in there, you know. Pump the resume out. Yeah. Not a big deal. But I'm looking, I'm thinking about this interview. I'm looking at you, Nick, and I'm looking at this picture. And I'm showing the picture of Nick when the first one on Andy's season. And I'm saying this guy, double major accounting and supply chain management, is, I mean, the guy in front of me,

the way you look, the tattoos, the swag you got to, everything, it just seems like two different people. And what I want to know is, did you ever expect that this time period in your life that you would get into entertainment and media and be doing it successfully for seven years? I mean, yes and no.

I mean, like that picture has been kind of a, a blessing and a curse. I've, you know, it's been good for like engagement when you do like a side by side of like, oh, like, you know, like what you want, you know, or like a meme or it's just like what you buy a line versus what you expect, you know, kind of shit like that. It's been like a very giving gift, but I think there's, again, my persona, if you want to call it that versus reality, I think that picture or like my character on the show or how as portrayed on Andy and Caitlin's season a little bit makes it seem like I'm like I've made this

like drastic shift of like who I was as a person yeah like that's just a really bad photo okay now like I wish I could be like oh yeah I really like had this glow up but like I remember I recently got tattoos that some I've always wanted to do I mean I guess to that to answer your question and I think a lot I don't know how you were but like there There are always times where I thought to myself when I was, you know, working in corporate America. Yeah. Where you're just, it just felt like, like, this can't be it for me, you know?

Like, this, it's, I mean, like, I felt like, I like what I do. I, I, I feel fortunate to have the job and career that I have. But, like, is this it? It's like, is this the most exciting my life's going to be? And so I don't want to sound all like, oh, I thought I always knew I'd do stuff like this. But I think there was a part of me that had that kind of interest in that stuff. I joke about, like, not joke, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a cartoonist for Disney. I was like artistic and I got away from that side as I focused on athletics and focused on business.

Sure. And it's been fun to tap into that in these past few years, like living in L.A. to tap into kind of a more creative side. I think social media in general makes that easier for everyone. I think, you know, especially with TikTok, like anyone can be a creator. You know, the access that people have to exercising their kind of creative brains is like never before, which I think is exciting for everyone. So like most people are. I think there's, you have kind of different. sides to who you are. I think, you know, there's a lot of cons of social media, but I think a positive has been that ability for people to not be, you know, it's just like you get a job and you get a career and you're like, this is just who I am. And maybe you have a hobby or two, but I think people can now develop different, you know, muscles and different talents. For sure. And I think, I guess, in a way, yeah, there is a part of me that I don't feel like as crazy as my life shifted or it was in the long longest possible wouldn't it answer like I'm not like blown away

yeah but at the same time it wasn't like it certainly wasn't like how do I move to LA and move to Hollywood I mean when I was in my late 20s early 30s like the idea of live I never I never would imagine I'd live in LA you know no I get that it's a little bit of both and I see I think I mean you bring up a lot of good points I see that picture and then I see you and I know the world that I've been exposed to from it. And to me, I think, I think about my corporate America days, I think the problem is that the corporate America culture, at least for me, maybe for you too,

is it limits you to such a box. Because if you get outside of that box, then you're not fitting the identity or kind of what they want to shape you as. And I think in our world, you now have so much ability to create your own, pursue entrepreneurship. You could have a sleeve of tattoos

and no boss is going to make a passive aggressive comment, You could do what you want the way you want in your living, I think is true to you as you possibly could, or at least I am in the world that we're, I talk different. I act different. I don't have to put my banker meeting voice on. I could just be what I want to be the way I want to be as opposed to how the corporate America structure wants me to be. But for you, you were, tell me if I'm wrong here, but you were 33 when you ended up going on the show. So what were you doing at that point in your life and what made you actually say, fuck it, I'm going to go. I'm going to take this shot. for Salesforce, which is a great company and I still have friends who work there. My brother works there now. I got him a job there. Indirectly. I mean, he got himself a job there. And yeah, I really quite liked it. Interestingly enough, like up into that point, you know, I was an accounting major. I did that my first two years and I hated it. And then I transitioned to sales. And I, and I worked my way up through. I first started selling cell phones and then did B2B sales for telecommunications and then did medical equipment.

and then did tech and for a lot of people would consider tech in terms of like if you're going to do sales that's a it's a great thing to sell something that's expensive

constantly changing innovative things like that's exciting sure and so from a corporate standpoint what was kind of interesting is that I finally felt like I made it

yeah you know from a you know like I was selling in tech was something I had always wanted to do and it wasn't easy to get into there was there were kind of different steps I had to take to get into that space.

And then I did, and I had a lot of early success at Salesforce. I really liked my team. I liked the people I worked with. It was really, you know, so I was like, this is great. And then the bachelor opportunity showed up. And at first, you know, it was my only reason of saying yes to the casting process is I had never been to L.A. ever. And I thought, I was just like, oh, what a cool way to go to L.A., you know?

and it was more like what I was was fascinated with what would the casting process be like for a show like this so my mindset was I'm just gonna go through the casting process just for fun to see what it's like

and then I'll just not do it and then as I went to the casting process it was made pretty clear to me that they were interested in me and so then you know your curiosity peaks and then I started talking to people I trusted at work To my surprise, they were incredibly supportive.

And yeah, if it weren't for them saying, you know, go do this and we'll always have you back, I probably wouldn't have done it. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have quit my job. Okay. So if you had to quit your job, you wouldn't have at this point, anybody that's interested in they hear you talk about the selling technology, your software sales, or being an account executive and the way you moved up within Salesforce, when you leave your job at this point around 33, you said it was a career moving in the right direction, around high,

level. How much you make it? At Salesforce? Yeah. About 150,000 at the time. Okay, so 150,000. And if they told you, Nick, you go, you're fired, you're not going. This whole world never opens up. Yeah. I wouldn't, I would definitely not have gone. Okay. That's wild. And so they did support you going, which is incredible. Yeah. At what point did you end up saying the future of what I'm forecasting for my business, like income and projections, can support or be greater than what I'm receiving at Salesforce. So I'm going to leave Salesforce. Yeah, it wasn't that mathematical. But you're an illypical guy. I am. But I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, this, this experience made me realize certain things about myself because I, I never thought of

myself, I thought of myself as somewhat more risk-averse rather than risk-take. If you would ask me that, I would have said I'm more risk averse. And I think in a lot of ways I am, I'm very careful. I'm very thoughtful with my choices. I look at pros and cons. I assess risk in my, you know, my mind. I'm not like an actuary or anything like that. But obviously what I learn, well, what I learn, and I guess it just depends on where

I am risky, I think I take a calculated risk in the sense that I think something I live by, continue to live by, and what has been constant, is when I'm faced with a challenge, I always bet on myself. Okay. And I look at, all right, one of the pros and cons, what's

the worst case, whatever that is? Sure. You know, if this goes really bad, what does that look like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I fall in my face, what's the result of it? This goes really good, what does this look like? And if the, and if the unknown variable is mostly how I

handle adversity or what I do with certain opportunities, then I'm going to do the more risky thing because if the variable is me and my choices, then I'm going to better myself to make the right choices. And I'm going to better myself to adapt. I'm going to better myself to overcome adversity when faced with those. So when I went and left for Caitlin season, and I came, I was just like, I just kind of leveled with them. Did they support you again to go on another season? Yeah, so the first time they were just like super chill and cool, like, hey, man, they should totally go. Like, we'll take you back, you know, at the time. And Salesforce, I'm guessing, is still that to this day.

But when I worked there, they had been around for a while, but relative to the industry, they were still considered, they had kind of stirred up mode. So they were, their focus was growing. They were always hiring. So they were just like, listen, your president's club, we're hiring all the time. Are we going to hire someone who's proven to be successful? and we like working with? Why would they know? Or are we going to hire someone we don't?

So like whether you go and leave or you quit, like we're going to hire you back. No liability in them rehiring. Yeah. Yeah. So like, okay, well, it makes sense. I'm like, that makes me feel good. So I took the leave and I came right back.

And then the second time, I was just like, I'm just going to love with you. I know this is super crazy and weird, but like, I was talking to this chick and I feel like, I don't know. And they're like, all right, again, And we want to support you and just promise us that if you don't come back unless you are done doing whatever this is. Yeah.

If you come back again, be committed to this job. Gotcha. So that's fair. One more shot. And so after, you know, I got, you know, after Caitlin and my journey with Caitlin ended, I definitely was just like, I'm not going back right away. So I took the summer and kind of this, you know, partly it was like I think my mental health wasn't super awesome after Andy. season so like I just needed to kind of decompress and so I was like if nothing else I'm just going to decompress yeah and then then I got signed by an agent which I didn't it was like commercial

agent slash modeling I didn't know what that meant you know the time like I didn't know that there's like an agent for everything or a manager and things like that I got an agent you know and so and a lot of the a lot of things that happened were very fortuitous and then I just had this had so I signed by an agent and the agent's like you should move to L.A. And then I've, you know, I met this, one of my buddies now who I didn't know very well at the time, but he's like, I have a house, so you can sit, like, cool. You know, you can, I have a room for you. And I had this a condo in Chicago. And so I kind of packed a couple suitcases. And I was like, well, I'll stay here for a couple months. And then, and I still kept in close communication with Salesforce. I was still technically on leave. Okay. And I was like ready to come back because I still was very like, I just, I don't want to lose this opportunity. but they're just like just fucking go man like what's the worst you like what's just go for a year give it a shot like what's the worst that happens we'll hire you back that's why i was like all right

fuck it you know so i thought to myself and again i when you because the way you asked the question was like i had no fucking clue what i was going to do right you know when i think back about where i'm today and what i have going on and like what i and and like i just did i just moved i just I had no income, I had no plan. It wasn't like nowadays where you have this playbook. I think I had like 110,000 followers. There wasn't anything as no one knew what a swipe up was. Did you, how about financially you have some type of amount that you said, okay,

X amount of month salary, 100,000 bucks. I had a, I think I had like $50,000 in my liquid cash in my savings. I had a 401k plan that I certainly like, if I needed, a rip case of emergency that was there but i never wanted to touch that sure sure but i in my back of my mind i was like i don't want to touch this yeah but i guess it is there yeah so i had about 45 50 000 in cash that i was living off of interest it's so much and and again like i hadn't made at this point i didn't make a i hadn't made a dime when from my bachelor experience so i just kind of moved to l.a and i just what i did know is that like i had me my

myself, my skills, I treated moving to L.A. like a job, you know, I told myself, well, I have a sales background. And so now my job is to sell myself. And so I took improv classes. I did the work. I networked. I recognized that being on the show gave me access. Sure. You know, I think understanding the difference between access and credibility is important. Yeah. The show gives you access. The show does not give you credibility. Right. That's for sure. Important to know the difference. That's 100% accurate. But access gives you an opportunity to build credibility for yourself. You know, you get in the room of certain people,

and then now you have an opportunity to have them get to know who you are, not who they might think you might be. Sure. I just kind of figured it out. You know, there's definitely a lot of luck involved, but, you know, there's that, you know, luck is when, you know, opportunity and preparation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, yeah, things definitely had to work out.

It wasn't, when I eventually quit Salesforce, Yep. When was the actual time here? I moved out. I think it was like December. So like I, yeah, it was like December of 2000. I don't know what year it was. So like it was in between Paradise and Caitlin season. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. It's interesting though that Salesforce was the one pushing you to go. So when I went on Becca's season, company supported me, when I got back and then was asked to go on Paradise, company said you go on Paradise, you're gone. Yeah. And so that was one of the driving. factors that eventually led me to not go on to paradise. But at this point, so when you go, like, I'm just trying to understand. I know you've been on yourself, but you go on season one of the Bachelorette. You go on season two. One thing we've heard from a lot of people in the reality TV space is once they go on one show, the next show they now have a built-in personality, they have a following, they have momentum. Like, are you compensated at all for that time period

going back on Caitlin's season? No. Okay. So the first time, they bought me like a suit or some shit. Okay. It was like, they're like, we can't pay you because like precedent and bullshit like that.

I think I got a little bit, but it was, it was minimal and it was like, it was essentially like they bought me a suit. Yeah, maybe two or something like that. But it was nothing. Okay.

Interesting. But between the Caitlin season. For Caitlin season. For Caitlin season. So between Caitlin's season and then going on Paradise, you move to L.A., you take the shot.

You got 50,000. bucks and a dream what did you do in that time and I know you took improv classes you created an opportunity what did you do within that time period before paradise to monetize because it wasn't social media in that world in 2015 16 was fucking not what I didn't make any money I didn't make a dime in that time period you weren't making any money I mean I think I did one diff had and what is that diff had I did I think I made like 1,200 bucks it's so crazy how much it's changed it's changed and then I think I did one I did one bar appearance in Calgary,

which some of the bachelor guys did, like Cristles did. And I hated every moment of it. I did it too. And that was full off of like, I was like, I need some fucking money. Sure. And they paid cash for that too, right? Yeah, right? Yeah, I just like, I hate, I heard her.

I just, I hated doing shit like that. Yeah. And so I did that, but there was, and there were plenty of moments in that time where I was like on the fence. I was still keep, like, I was, I left Salesforce, but I was keeping tabs. I was like keeping my relationships. I was checking in during St. Patrick's Day, that following year, before Paradise, I went home to Chicago and hung out with some friends.

And I was like, ah, it's fucking good to be home. It's good to see my friends. But then I was like, you know, because you were, you know, Salesforce and Google was in Chicago. There's a lot of swapping positions. Of course. And I will say when I went back to Chicago that weekend, It was good to be back, but then I was talking to a hiring manager at Google who was best friends with a friend of mine, but also like an executive at Salesforce.

And then I thought to myself, yeah, I'm good. I can totally get a job if I need a job. Sure. Because he was like, this guy was essentially like offering me a job at Google, you know, selling emails basically. But hey, it's a sales job at Google. Exactly. And I was like, you know what?

fuck it like it just it just kind of gave me the confidence that i don't know if this is going to work out what i'm doing because there was a lot of like at that point for a lot of days i was just kind of waking up and i wanted to do something i wanted to feel busy but i don't know what the fuck to do you know like so what did you i mean improv classes anything else i started taking acting classes improv classes again i was like trying to set up meetings and take meetings and yeah i was just i was just hustling and i was trying to network i was just trying to get to know the lay of the land So was going to Paradise then, getting to know the lay of the land, not really booking anything other than Defiware for the 1,200 and then going on Paradise, was when they offered you that Paradise role, was there, I mean, you had to undoubtedly be like, of course, I'm in. No, no, because when I got to L.A., and I got, you know, assigned by this agent, I was in L.A. for like a month.

And again, I was coming off of Caitlin's season. So, like, I was, you know, my notoriety was, I guess, at a high, right? People felt bad. You were crying. Yeah. It was my best moment. And then there was a show on E called Famously Single that they were starting. Okay.

And I was, they're big, they wanted me bad, you know? Two-time runner up on The Bachelorette. My agent was like, they want you bad. You're under contract, but, like, you know, the president, like, my agent was saying, like, you know, I don't know, some high up at NBC would, like, be willing to kind of, like, talk to whoever, like, the Mike Fleises of the world, whatever. And I think they were offering me, like, $60,000 to do it or something like that. Okay. My agent really wanted me to do it. But I, I just thought to myself, I didn't move to L.A. just to be on TV.

Okay. $60,000 would help me out right now, big time. Sure. But I was thinking big picture. You know, I left a job making $150,000 a year. And that was, it was a job there. And that was the floor. Like, I was still relatively entry level. Like the ceiling for where I was planning on, where I thought I could move up to at Salesforce, it's like making a half a million dollars a year. And real quick, if you're, suppose it with the bonuses, let's say you average out 300K. And then you add, I don't know, benefits that you monetize that, say 350. For anyone listening here, like, that's 350K for a year, do three years, do four years. You're at $1.3 million. So every stock option, every day you're not working for them, it's costing you. Yeah. Right?

So significantly. Yeah. So my mindset was, is this opportunity of going on famously single going to help me or hurt me long term? And I just thought famously single and trying to capitalize on being some sort of reality TV reject is like, that's not. move to L.A. to do that. Got it. You know, like, Famouss,

you know, it was a new show. It was about being broken up with. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do or hosting or acting, but I was like, I want to I didn't quit my job to just do this type of shit. Okay. So, like, no. Like I said no to it

and, you know, Adrian was all mad at me. But I was just like, I just thought to myself, if I did this show, I might as well just go back to work now and make money. It's a wild move. sitting in L.A. for a year, not making much, getting offered a whole show at E and turning it down. That's crazy.

And then I'm casting Josh Murray instead. Interesting. And then I was like, yeah, I mean, they're a call. Are you trying to say Josh Murray's reality TV reject? We all are, Jason. I know, I know. Because I almost self-deprecate. I was like, well, you didn't want to be one.

But here we are. We are. And what I wasn't trying to do is monetize that. Sure. And whatever. If someone went and did it, for me, it just wasn't the right call. And for me, I, the benefit of quitting Salesforce, I was giving up something, right? And so you, for me, every decision I made, I had to compare it to like, well,

is doing this going to help me, like, grow, be more successful? Is it going to help me gain credibility? Because again, I have, I already have the access. I don't have the credibility. So, like, is going on famously single going to give me. more credibility or less because I don't need more access. I could, you know, I was taking acting classes and, you know, in the acting world, a big, and it's, it was kind of a scam. I think they've kind of put the closed loophole, but like young casting directors had these like seminars that you'd pay like 300 bucks to go to like network with casting directors. And you're meeting low level casting directors. And you're essentially like showing up to this like seminar to give them your

quote unquote acting resume. And it's kind of a scam for casting director. to make a little extra coin. And I went to my first acting class and I was referred to my first acting class to a casting director at NBC who was still a friend of mine. And I was in that room and they were a bachelor fan. They took a general meeting with me

because I was a bachelor fan. I was at a bar and her secretary saw me and said, hey, have you ever thought of acting? My boss wants to meet you. I knew that she wasn't interested in casting me in a show that she probably was a bachelor fan. But from that moment on, she befriended me because I took that meeting, I answered her questions,

but then I asked for advice and career advice. I didn't ask for a role. I asked for, like, what work can I do? And she kind of took me under a wing, and she set me up with another general meeting. But point of all saying all this is, like, here I am at this acting class with a bunch of people who have,

on their second, third, fourth acting class school, right? And they're all like, you know, what casting director seminars have you gone to and I'm like, I just took a meeting with like the executive at NBC and you know what I'm saying? Like I had the access. Sure, sure. And and so that's what I mean. Like every decision I made was like, is this going to give me more access or not? You know? So anyways, fast forward to Paradise. The reason why you're like, oh, was that a sure thing? Because me saying yes to Paradise contradicted my decision making up into that point. That makes a lot of sense. And so I was

really reluctant but at the same time at least i had a relationship with the show i knew like some of the producers that i did trust despite them being producers and instead you know it was still the bachelor franchise on abc not famously single a show that didn't even exist on e you know so it was like network for television versus cable etc etc my friends were going like so my reason for saying yes was not because it was going to give me more credibility or more access. At that point, yeah, I definitely, like, the funds were getting low. Yeah. I was definitely, like, and I was really close to, like, moving back. It was definitely like, if I, if I didn't say yes to Paradise, I was going to go back to work. Wow. I had a bunch of friends going on Paradise,

and they were all, like, friends like Jared and Tanner who had gone the year before, and they're like, dude, it's fun. Yeah. Just go to it. It's not the same. Yeah. It's fun. And I, and finally I said, I just said, I just kind of said, fuck it. And one of the producers who just said, you're just going to have to trust me. And I said, I guess, fuck it. I guess I'll just trust you. And I went.

I'm just trying to think of the differences. Obviously, network TV, you don't have access. It's not going to do credibility. And it's certainly, you can call me out right now. It's not going to pay you 60K, which the other show would have paid. Paradise? Yeah.

No. I mean, I negotiated different than I think, it wasn't close to that. It was about a third of that. Did you negotiate a guaranteed rate? Yeah. Yeah. So it knew that it would keep you there for a little bit. Or they did.

It wasn't my problem, but I wasn't afraid of going home. If you want a semi-home day one, I don't care. In fact, given like what I wanted to do, that was like, at the time, like best case scenario, show up for a day,

get my paycheck and you send me home night one, great. Actually, yeah. You know, at the time, my mindset was like, I was very reluctant to go into that world. I had a lot of, like trepidations and fears and I always kind of yeah I felt like I was up into that point I couldn't

win in that world yeah and I want to ask you about post paradise before I do though you touched on the acting thing and it's something that no one from bachelor nation has done effectively and there's probably a million reasons why because we're not actors but do you think anyone can effectively go from bachelor world to acting with the experience and because you did act for a little bit like How difficult is that world? You did? Yeah. So tell me a little bit about just that industry,

the guy that knows nothing about it. I mean, it's a tough grind. Well, if I ever make it, make it, like I've had some small roles. Yeah. The role I just played, I actually played myself, and I usually,

that's the first time I ever agreed to do that, but it was well written, and it was, I felt good about the decision. And, like, how do you even get, like, so you just said you did a, film, how did you even get that opportunity?

I mean, I have a theatrical agent. Interesting. Yeah. Do those, like, little cameos and shows and stuff? Like, can people make a living off that? No. No, I think, hundreds of bucks you're making for a cameo? I have no idea what I made for this role.

In fact, when it comes to, you know, maybe I shouldn't tell, like, I'd do it for free. Right. You know, because I'm doing it for the experience and the work and the credibility. The credibility, right? I'm fortunate enough that I'm making money in other aspects of my life and career. career. And a lot of it. And a lot of it. And I don't care about the money. So in your dream world, and I want to go back to post-paradice in a second, but dream world, would you be a well-known successful actor? Would that be like a dream for you? Sure, in a way. I mean, I don't, I don't

think I'm ever going to exclusively be an actor. And also, like, I don't think Hollywood is that way. You don't think anyone is this point. Like, you don't, you're TikTok stars now. Leo's don't exist anymore. That's a good point. You know, it's a really good point. Even your A-list actors are hosting more and more, and I think it's just a different landscape these days. Okay. But even if it wasn't, I don't think, like, I think my dream acting role would be some sort of series regular on a TV show where people would look and go, it's better than I thought. Yeah, sure.

You know, to me, that's the, that's the dream, you know, and I don't think I'll ever stop doing what I'm doing, you know. Yeah. I love what I'm doing. And so I'm never going to like stop the podcast. I'm never going to stop, you know, doing other hosting stuff. So if I were able to get regular work as an actor, that would be a really cool dream. So I'm sorry to detour the conversation, but it's nothing that I know about. I find it fascinating. I appreciate you sharing that. But what just, I didn't answer your question in terms of like what it would, it's a challenge because I'm still the bachelor guy, you know? Yeah, it's so hard to break out of that. It's so hard to break and you got to pick your spots you have to I mean I've been taking acting classes for four

years yeah you have to be committed to doing the work with very little return very little reward you know like I do I do get I get auditions you know twice a month yeah and I always hire my coach and I audition and I rehearse I'm assuming I'm not getting the part you know like but you do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. But two auditions is, like, in the acting, because we had an actress on, and they'll do, like, hundreds of auditions. So two auditions is, like, nothing. Yeah, relative, like, to the average person.

And I have had, yeah, I'm on average. And, like, during, like, pilot season, I might get more and things like that. But, yeah, I'm fortunate. Like, it's all, like, it's just, like, gravy. And so, like, will I ever make it make it? I don't know. But I'm right now, it's a passion project. of mine and something I'm fortunate living in LA that I can continue to do. And as long as I have

representation who's willing to pitch me out for certain roles. And one day, all it takes is one shot. One shot. One last question about this before I go back to post paradise. But I think, you know, Caitlin has done a really successful job of people will call her like the off the vine person or the dancing with the stars person. And you and your podcast, people might refer like, oh, he's the podcaster. Do you think, though, anyone from the franchise has ever actually a, effectively, completely rebranded them that they're not known as like the bachelor person. Not yet. Yeah.

I think Rachel Lindsay, Caitlin, myself are the closest. Mm-hmm. I think you're doing a great job. That's nice, yeah. No, you really are, though. I'm like staring at down. You better give me a great now. I'm just kidding.

No, you really are. But you, because like you, it's clear you know what you're talking about when it comes to business. it's not something that people would think about like it's not a low-hanging fruit opportunity and bachelor space when it comes to our audience but it's something like I think to be successful to be able to do what we're all trying to do is you have to stay the course,

you have to do it without getting immediate return, you have to do it without making money right away. I think Hannah-I had a real opportunity. Really? Yeah, because like... In what space? Like the modeling space? modeling and baking.

Okay. That's right. She's doing all the baking shows. She fucking bakes every day. It's on social media. Consistency, though. That's part of building a business. That's what I'm saying.

It's very clear that what she likes and what she has a passion in doing and she's committed to that and she's doing it. And I think that will serve her well. And yeah, I think it just takes time. But I like kind of to your point, I, you, when I go, L.A. is different, but when I travel. Yeah. like New York or Chicago, of 10 people come up to me, nine people are coming up to me from my podcast.

Oh, really? No. And there's been a shift in the past year. That's huge. Yeah. That's a huge change. Yeah. That's awesome.

And that's, I know, Caitlin's the same way. And same thing. When people come up to me and say, if they say anything about training secrets or restart, my excitement level is 15 times. And someone's like, oh, Zach, Rebecca, Caitlin. So, yeah, I think it's tough. I think it just takes time.

Part of it is because the Bachelor franchise is still popular. Caitlin, myself, you to a certain degree, Rachel, working for extra, is still talking and covering the bachelor. And that's the challenge of, like, it's just like, fuck, I want to, like, get away from it. But, like, also, it's, like, my audience. Like, it's a challenge. You know, I saw an interview that Matthew McConaughey did about, like, just being, like, I'm not doing Roncoms anymore. Fuck it. I don't care if I don't work anymore.

Wow. He bet it himself. and there was no guarantees at all. Like, we look back, and now that he's won an Oscars. Like, of course he was going to make it. Sure. At that time. You know, that is something I struggle with in terms of trying to balance out my involvement

with Bachelor Nation and recapping the shows versus the other things I'm doing. But I think, you know, the people I just mentioned, the more we, the longer we continue to work and the more like little successes, shavings make a pile, I would say, the more we will be known for the things outside of our time on the show. Yeah. And I mean, the difficulty is, is I'm going to take a wild guess here and look at your podcast downloads and look at your metrics on social media and everything.

And there has to be a direct correlation to when Nick is speaking to someone extremely relevant from the show about the show. Yeah. The success, right? And that's the difficulty anyone listening. I think that's the difficulty in branching out because the second you branch out,

those numbers start to move in a different direction. Yeah. Yes. And you try to juggle that. Yeah. Exactly. It's a balancing act. And even like on my Instagram, I want to do all business and money stuff. And I can't, right, I have to balance the business behind it.

And that's the nature of the world. All right. So, 2018, I've had you for a while here, Nick, and I only got you for so much longer. But 2018 is when you finish, or no, I'm sorry, 2016 is when you finish Paradise, right? I don't know the year. But whatever you finish Paradise. You weren't the bachelor right after. It was Ben Higgins.

So in that time period, is this when the business started picking up? for you to start to justify staying in L.A.? Well, no, because, like, right after Paradise, when I got off the show, like, I knew it was going to go well. Yeah. Like, I just, like, I'm like, I think am I getting good at it? Like, and I think some of the producers, like, they don't want to give it away and they don't like talking about the edit it,

but they're like, I think you're going to be happy. I'm like, all right, great. Like, in that point, honestly, it was just for me more of a personal, like, validation of, like, feeling like people might get to see me. sure on the show yeah and so my mindset was just kind of an i honestly was more like i i was kind of wrapped up in that from a personal side of just wanting to enjoy that and i was back in la and i you know i went back to taking acting classes i just went right back to doing that like to get on to get me to do paradise i had some meetings with some dancing with the stars people

i don't know how sincere that was or if it was just me to get me to get me to do paradise i had some meetings with some dancing with the stars people i I don't know how sincere that was or if it was just me to get me to do a paradise. Genius. Not only did you negotiate it, guaranteed them out. You got dancing with the stars in the package. I will let my hope was to get on dancing with the stars. We're on making that money, money, living that dream.

Making that money, money, money. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell with the one and only, the Curious Canadian on Nick Vial's podcast. this is only part one you could tell where we ended guys right so we ended with him talking about wanting to go on dancing with the stars but then becoming the bachelor and let me tell you what part two i think is about three times better than part one part one was a great start because we got a foundation for nick and some of the things that you usually don't hear from what's next and what was before individuals from the bachelor franchise went on the show we heard what was before next episode

is what's next, which is a fascinating one. And that's why we made this a two-part series. So one of the biggest guys I know who is a critique master of Bachelor alumni is David Ardoin. He rips, shreds, pumps, acknowledges, inspired by,

does it all with the franchise. A to Z with alumni. I'm telling you he needs his own Instagram where he could just comment and give us his true opinion because every time he gives me his opinion, I'm blown away. We got him. He's here, right here, right now, David Ardoin. Thank you for coming on the closing bell.

Nick Vial, part one. Let's go. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, I mean, you summed it up well. I probably consumed way too much of my personal time on bachelor nation. And I think you being thrust into it, like, has just amplified it for me. But I'm as normal of a guy as it can be. And I couldn't be more of a consumer of batronation.

So when we got Nick on the pot, I've always been a very like, I still don't know if I like him or not. I just listened to him for an hour and a half and I still don't know if I like am really on board with the Nick Viall train, but such a, such a good teaser line. Let me give you a quick take on Nick. Before I met Nick, especially naturally, because he was like, you know, big part of Caitlin season, I didn't think I was going to like him at all. In fact, I was like, I'm not going to like, I'm going to really not like him, right? And I met him. and I think the way I was perceiving him, at least on social media or on TV, versus what was in person, I don't know that I've ever been that far off with someone. And so when I met him, I actually really liked him because he's so different, at least to me, than what I was perceiving.

And he was, he was nice, he was kind. He was, I think I was expecting like extreme arrogance. And I didn't get that at all. I got more. more like personable, intrigued, wanting to have a conversation. So I think if you met him, you would definitely feel more different. Like his energy and stuff, it's different than when you're just watching him maybe or listening. The podcast did help for whatever it's worth, my like care of likingness for Nick Vial because it's such not an important topic. But you could tell just the way he didn't pursue other opportunities in between shows and really like chase the fame was really interesting because you would you you would think if as an

observer like oh two-time runner-up then paradise then batch like this guy must have been chasing and looking for the next and the next and the next and then he turned down that um the other show that he got offered the famous famously single whatever yeah um it made me respect him a lot a lot um for what it's worth nick if you're listening i think it was cut right there that i want to cut you off because I don't want to go over that, because I don't want to miss that. I was really impressed that he turned that down because I was a little confused, though. It seemed a little contradictory, but also impressed when he explained it. It seemed contradictory because you turn that down, but then you went on Paradise, which is the shit show.

But when he explained, like, he's like, well, this is ABC Network. My brand has already built with them. I know their credibility. This is a new show. Who knows what it's going to do? And the fact that he was kind of dwindling on funds and they were paying $70K, $60K for him to have his own show. and he said no, yeah, really impressed by the thought process behind it. Have you ever, has anyone from Bachelor Nation ever crossed over from ABC to another reality TV

show network and had success? Had success? I don't think so. Exactly. I mean, the one guy who's clearly had success and he's taken over the show is the new host, right? So he went from being in the NFL to new host of The Bachelor to then being the Bachelor to then being The Bachelor and then became a very successful host and a successful sports broadcaster

because that's his background, now coming back to host The Bachelor. But no one has done like a real, like I remember that guy Chad, I think he was Chad Johnson, the big villain. He wanted a bunch of reality shows, but I don't think it worked out for him. Like I don't think he like cleaned his edit up in any way. Now we know that at least there's speculation out there

that Blake is going on a show. Yeah, I was just going to bring that up. there's a lot of news articles that's all out there so we'll see how that goes but i i'll be cheering for blake i remember meeting someone from m tv and them saying like their cast a corey warren from the challenge and he was telling me he's like yeah man we like we like we kind of know it's create like an mtv world we know that the abc guys and girls you guys are going to like the better you know you guys are get the better brand deals and like you guys are held i mean reality tv in general is held like at a very low rate but the abc bachelor is held at like the top of the pinnacle of reality tv all right so

playing on that i need i think we're going to use this opportunity for a recap since we have part two coming up sure and we'll get more into nick himself as a guest i kind of want to do a state of the union on the bachelor okay in this recap and we're kind of trending in that way talking about comparables where do you think the show is going in terms of long-term viability? I mean, from the ABC side, do you think producers? Do you think Mike Fleiss? Do you think he's worried about like, you know what, I think we're losing momentum.

I think ratings are down. I think the way that people are consuming cable TV is down. Let's start with there. What do you think the long-term viability of is it from a show from ABC's point of view? Take on the show. The show is going to have to, I think from the little I know, the production is going to have to continue to change draft. It's going to have to change drastically because, and you're starting to see it season to season,

because the appetite of the consumer is changing drastically. And not only that, but there's so much competition. I think you're seeing, like, Bachelor in Paradise ratings, I believe they did really well. That type of style is what the consumer wants right now. So they're going to have to bring that type of energy and that type of stuff to the actual show. There was a point on mental all last night where Caitlin, like, they were talking about one of the guys, and Blankin on his name, Martin, and that, like, he's now. happily like with a girl and he like has a girlfriend and kately made a joke like live she's like

all right and we're going to bring her out right now and every that was off the cuff first of all fucking hilarious and like when she said that was like oh my god no way and i think that's like the style not so much of the like brick and mortar reading off of welcome back to the bachelor it's going to have to be more like uncut raw like that um so that's my take on that but i will say i think the show, it's, I had a theory it was going to go away, especially after everything happened with Chris Harris. I'm like, this show's done. But then I realized, this show's brand

is stuck in America. And it's so, do we go to these podcasts tours, we go, it is so strong bastro nation. They're going to have to adjust, but I don't think it's going anywhere. Yeah, I think the show will stop when they want it to stop. I don't think the show is going to stop because they can't keep up or be relevant. But it's, it's curious to hear you say, like, the Paradise numbers are,

super exceeding the the normal bachelor bachelor bachelor franchise numbers and i just wonder how they're going to mix it up a little bit like the cookie cutter production value of the show in terms of like i could blindfold going into episode six on a season to know exactly what's going to happen it's a one-on-one date it's a group date it's a one-on-one date it's final rose it's done like that's it's it's bit. Like, I'm just curious when they're going to maybe change that up a bit, maybe do a little more like candids, bring people in, start doing plays on social media. I don't know. But I think where they're missing out to. You broke it down pretty good. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I agree with that, David. There's going to be some change. I think where they're missing out to big time is

alumni. Like, think about the challenge, right? The alumni is constantly going on the show and doing things. You have this alumni that is their value is going up by the second for the top, for the top tier alumni. Why are you guys not doing anything with them? Do give me a bachelor alumni? Imagine like all this. Like you know, like I'll be honest when I was like when Greg had that whole Katie moment, I was kind of like dragging Greg a little bit. Kind of take it back now based on everything. But like imagine you have these people that are dragging each other and now you throw them in like a competitive environment, they got to confront it, either apologize, like there's so much enterprise value with the combined alumni and the things that have

happened. Like example, okay, example, we talk business here. Hannah Brown's book, Hannah Brown is a New York Times bestseller because she addressed all of the drama that we wanted to know and waited a year and a half to do it. And she did it perfectly. And the marketing was brilliant. If you can become one of the number one book sold in the world on the New York Times bestseller as a former lead of the Bachelorette discussing the people you slept with and what really happened in your relationship, imagine if you had some more alumni-focused shows.

I think that would go nuts. It'd be like Big Brother All-Stars were me and you were texting back and forth on steroids for sure for the rest of Bachelor nation. The issue is the cost though, right? because what happens is we just had Nick, right? And you guys will hear in the second episode some of the money he's making. It costs you, everyone's values become so high because of the stuff that they're getting paid to do. What would the cost be to put something like that together?

This is where, and this is going to parlay into my next question, or I'm going to be so obsessed because we have the person who runs the Bachelor, Instagram, like the Bachelor data person coming up on the podcast, which I'm like, I've been obsessed with that account for, I should have been doing that account. when you came off the show because I had like my note section going with like your growth by month by month. So I could only imagine what the opportunity would be if you had an alumni version of the bash or whether it be competing for love or competing for something. I know they tried it with winter games a little bit. But what do you think the opportunity is for contestants on the show?

Do you think there's still that like it's a guaranteed meteororic growth, Instagram influencing opportunity? Or do you think the timeframe that we've, the bachelor's been in this social media, boom has kind of plateaued with it being so watered down with 30 people every realistically like three, four months entering this like pool. I think what's interesting is in the second part we talk about this, the success of bachelor people after the show and before the show and Nick and the difference between being a male or a female. So this part of the conversation I'm going to hold until we actually go, right? But that being said, I'll answer your question. We're in this position now where social media advertising is increasing at such an exorbitant rate. And you're seeing

all budgets for 2020 be focused on social media with large companies. So that being said, as long as you, it doesn't matter what your following is. Let me repeat that. It does not matter what your total number of followers is. It has strictly everything to do with how engaged your following is and what your brand is and the quality of content you're putting out. And even though someone might have 50,000 followers. If they're putting out good quality content and they have an established brand and an engaged audience, they're going to make a lot of money off that Instagram. So I do think it's sustainable, but I'll, I cannot wait, David, and we will do a follow-up podcast on this to track, because we're seeing right now a decline in followers, right? So we had Tatia season,

and then we saw the followers that came off that, like Blake and Greg. Then we had this season, Michelle's season and the following count on these this cast and the lead is that all time like you know not all time but lows it's trending lower be interesting to see what happened with clayton season does that trend continue where their followers become less or is there a huge spike we'll have to monitor and uh just correct you said tasha season you meant katie season with greg and blake but no no i meant like tasha season there like tasha came off with like 1.8 million 1.7 million followers right katie came off with a million followers Michelle i think now has around 600,000 followers.

Will that trend continue? Yeah. Yeah, that's very interesting. So, all right, before we wrap up here, Nick brought up something that I've actually never asked you about this, and he said he was taking acting classes. Have you ever taken acting classes? I did one virtual acting class session when I lived in Seattle.

It was with all kids. So I was the only adult, and I was just watching. I was because they were just like, it was like, do you want to be in this or not? and I watched the kids practice. It was fucking insane how good they were. It was so good, and I followed all of them, and I still follow them on Instagram.

But Nick got me thinking, like, who knows if I could do, like, okay, likelihood that I will ever do anything in acting, 1%. But, like, I find that whole world fascinating. And so I think I'm going to take acting classes just to learn about it. Just like, so here's an example. Like, tomorrow I go to Detroit, and I'm going with, there's something called three ring circus where they do it's a very it's all for professional speakers you do a two-day boot camp on how to actually professionally speak like the psychology

and strategy behind being a professional speaker I've no idea if I'll be a professional speaker but like why not go like for me I'm like why not like I'm going to go so that's what I'm going to do and at some point I'm going to make that a 2022 goal to take real acting lessons that's cool I like that why not like that right like why not well it's Great. You know, to wrap it up, I think that was a great part one. I'm excited to recap part two here. Good. You know, Bachelor Nation, man. You guys talked about wanting to break the mode of mold of being from the Bachelor and your successes. But you see, you know, every podcast guest we have that comes on, it's a bachelor person. It's more successful. Like Bachelor Nation will always be Bachelor Nation. So crazy group of fans out there. I'm one of them. So I can't really speak to too much to it. I love it. Part two is coming up. And what we'll talk about in part two in the recap, too, is just like this. to access and credibility that Nick talked about.

We'll talk about breaking the mold, getting outside of the bachelor world. We'll talk about a lot of Nick's endeavors that he talks about in the next episode and the money behind all the decisions and strategy of what he's done and how he's done it. From almost being broke to where he's at today, we hit that. If you enjoyed this podcast,

please make sure to subscribe. Make sure to tune in to part two next week. Nick, we appreciate your vulnerability and your honesty and where you were and where you are today. And next episode will be one you can't afford to miss. So please remember to give us five stars. Give us a comment, feedback, things we could do better, guests we could have anything and everything.

We will see you next Monday for another episode of Trading Secrets, Part 2 with Nick Baile and hopefully another episode you can't afford to miss. Making that money and money, living that dream. Making that money and money, pay on me. Making that money and living that dream.