Trading Secrets - 32: Nick Viall Part 2: From Thousands in the Bank to Millions, How He Bet on Himself

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

We're back today with part 2 of our episode with Nick Viall. Nick continues to chat with Jason all about his negotiations when it came to being The Bachelor, if he would have done the show for free, how he initially got into business with the wrong people, how The Viall Files began, the money surrounding his podcast and when he started to see the dollars come in, his take on monetization and social media, and so much more. It's another episode you can't afford to miss. For All Access Content - join our networking group for less than 30 cents a day! Hellofresh.com/secrets14 for 14 free meals and 3 free gifts! getcerebral.com/tradingsecrets for 65% off your first month Ourcrowd.com/secrets to join the fastest growing venture capital investment community Shopify.com/secrets for a free 14-day trial Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tardick, and I don't even know if it's fair to say another episode because this is our first ever extension of last week's episode. Last week was part one with Nick Bial. this is part two. And if you've been around with Trading Secrets since we launched in May, thank you for being here. And if you're new to Trading Secrets, please remember to give us five stars and also just give us a review. Any feedback, insight, thoughts. Throw your Instagram handle on

there as we have a member of our team reading reviews and reaching out. We appreciate it all. All the feedback really helps us continue to get better. But in this episode, we're going to talk a lot about where Nick is today, his podcast, his different businesses, acting, a movie that he's in, and his dream aspirations. We hit it all. And not only do we hit it all from a career perspective, we do talk about the numbers in each of those categories. Oh, I got to tell this part. This part was amazing. Nick texted me saying, you know what, man, I really enjoyed being on the podcast. I said the same, Nick. I just really appreciate your genuine, authentic, no bullshit type attitude when a question is asked. Like, it's so just

refreshing. And so Nick said to me, but it's a shame I couldn't win your buddy over. Because if you remember in last recap, David said he went into the podcast, unsure about Nick, came out of part one thinking, okay, you know, I'm starting to get sold. So stay tuned for this recap, because David's going to tell you what he thinks about Nick after part two. And the recap, is wild. We talk all things. So thank you for tuning in to another episode of Trading Secrets. We hope this part two is one you can't afford to miss. To get me to do Paradise, I had some meetings with some dancing with the stars people. I don't know how sincere that was, or if it was just me to get me to do a paradise.

Genius. Not only did you negotiate a guaranteed amount, you got dancing with the stars in the package. Well, my hope was to get on dancing with the stars. Are you naturally a good dancer? I mean, for like a kid from Wisconsin, I'm like, I can hold my island out at a wedding. But what is, so what is your, I'm trying to think your angle here. Is the angle money or the angles just keep the game going? Well, to me, dancing with the stars at the time was different like I thought it would be fun okay and I it was like a like a credible show where like they have real like celebrities like not just that's what guys you know and I so and then there's that that's there's some significant money and dancing stars and and so that was like my next

like hope and I don't know how realistic so in the back of my mind I was like I wonder if maybe like I don't know like I think this didn't go well maybe maybe maybe dance with the stars but I was realistic about like that was still considered a long shot. So I was just kind of enjoying it and... And they didn't put you on, though. They didn't put you in dancing with the stars that fall, right? No, they made me with a bachelor. But it was a year later, wasn't it?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So a year later, yeah. If they wouldn't have put me on dancing with the stars if I wasn't The Bachelor, I'm confident in saying that. Got it. I mean, I don't care how well I was received on Bachelor in Paradise. But there was a luck where, like, Luke Pell shit the bed,

and simultaneously, I think even more than the producers expected, I was like this overwhelming fan favorite on Paradise. And then I had a built-in story of being a two-time runner-up. And, you know, I don't know. I don't think the producer particularly cared for Luke Pell, the person. And when he thought he deserved like a half a million dollars, they were just like, fuck it, let's Nick the Bachelor.

Is that what he was negotiating for? I don't know the details. But that's the rumor. I think he was, I think he negotiated like they had no other options. I talk about this in my book that's coming out next year. I'm asking you the question, would you have done The Bachelor if they paid you nothing? Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I agree. I didn't really care about the money. Yeah. In fact, the first thing I said to them, I'm like, would you care about?

The women. There wasn't any bit of money in your head. I mean, I needed the money at the time. I said, come on. But I would have done it for free. Yeah. Okay. Because I knew the opportunity.

I knew the money. would come. The money would come. I think it's the stupid for anyone who's offered that role to say no to it. Yeah, like I and I think Jojo before that was smart she knew that like you just nickeling dimeing over $10, $20, $30,000. It's a dumbest thing you can do

given like what that opportunity gives you in terms of like it's like it's chum change. Exactly. So minus like needing some money because I had, like, lived without a job for a year, I would have, I would have done it for, I would have been, like, just give me, like, give me what I need to survive for another year to get through the bachelor thing.

So before the bachelor, at this point, you save 50K, you're through it two years before being the bachelor. Do you have less or more than 50K to your name? Well, that's a paradise, I had slightly less. Slightly less. So you're still grinding and trying to make that. Still grinding. Yeah.

Yeah. And so I basically said, give me this number. I knew the number was a reasonable number. to ask for. And they said, here, here's your number. And we, like, we took a data to quote unquote negotiate. But I, because I said, all I cared about was like, I'm like, just, please cast women I'm going to be into. I want to, I want this to work. Yeah. Okay. I want to get to a lot of the post-bachelors. You've done a lot of really cool business stuff. But so you go through the bachelor, you then roll right into dancing with the stars. So I am sure after dancing with the stars,

Nick's Bank account is doing much better. Yeah. You know, from that point forward, I don't think I ever, like, you know, where to see it was on sale. Very, very well set. Once you get off the show, though, at that point, Dance with the Stars, it's a different world then

than it is today. And I know I think you, you kind of scrapped a little bit, right? You had like a monthly subscription box you created for Males and you did other things that worked and didn't work.

What were some of the biggest successes and biggest failures once Dancing with the Stars was over and now it was business time? Yeah, I learned some good lesson, some tough lessons. Yeah, my first chance at like starting a business,

it was the Paulus Gent and ultimately... It was the what? Called the Paulus Gent. It was like a mail subscription box. And I'd just got in business with the wrong guys. Really? Okay. Yeah. Do you lose a lot on that or no?

No, I didn't really lose anything. I lost what I thought, well, I lost the opportunity. I mean, because I was coming off the Bachelor and all this promotion I was doing for it, I moved was millions of dollars in terms of value that the people I partnered with squandered. And what I, you know, it was one of those things. It was guys who wanted to work with me because they were hoping to like kind of pump and dump, you know, sell product that was dog shit and make a bunch of money and leave.

And I was trying to like start a real business and grow it. And I was putting my name behind it. And I wanted to be, it would be a quality product. And spent a lot of time going back and forth on that. and eventually we just agreed to disagree in part ways. I hate over-promising and under-delivering. And so that was a, like, I at the time agreed to start marketing something before we had settled on product and packaging and marketing

with the assumption that, like, we were all on the same page and we weren't. And so that was a tough lesson, but an important lesson of, like, and that's kind of the industry, right? like even like Silicon Valley or venture capitalism there's a I mean a lot of companies are started off of marketing totally and there's nothing behind it and they're just like well just figure it out once we just get the once we get the demand yeah and I just people do that they can do that people still continue to do that but I I didn't like doing that at all and so I took a step back and then you know I started natural habits and launched the vial files right

around the same time and both right with the same kind of mindset of at the time you know katelyn obviously was crushing in the podcast space ben and ashley were doing almost famous and certainly there were plenty other bachelor people in podcasts at the time i mean i thought i got in late the podcast but i mean it's only you know a quadruple in size since then but uh i just knew i wanted to do it right you know i wanted to figure out what my groove was what i wanted to show i didn't want to rush. I didn't, you know, kind of, I didn't want to jump start something and I wasn't fully prepared to do. Sure. And so I kind of worked behind the scenes when it came to both starting the vial files and natural habits. And I'm really glad I did it. And natural habits

is still running successful. Yeah, it's still going well. I mean, it's still a small operation. And it's one of those things. The biggest obstacle for us right now is, is the success I think in other spaces and my bandwidth and like outsourcing it to other people. My sister's on a great job of doing that and it's going great. And the best thing is, you know, what's the nice thing about natural habits is we have an excellent product that I think is best in the business. And that goes a long way. And so I think that's the reason why it's continuing to do what it's doing because it's now gotten to the point where, you know, our customers really love the product and trust the product and continue to use it.

And then, you know, it hasn't grown as fast as I wanted it to, but that has 100% to do with the fact that, like, my time has been a lot within the Vial Files and growing that network and developing other shows and in owning the Vial Files has been a huge blessing, but also takes up a lot of my time. Yeah. I want to get into the Vial Files next and we'll end with that,

but before I do, I want to just get your take on this. So when you got off all these shows, obviously you had to get scrappy with your career and profession and how you're going to make the next buck. And a lot of it came with entrepreneurship. You know, the box, the oils, all the other stuff you did. In today's world, almost, you know, almost anyone at this point goes on the show and at different levels can instantly monetize anywhere from, I don't know, maybe the low end, someone could do 5K a year at the high end. People could do millions of dollars a year. What is like your overall take? I guess the whole premise of monetization of social

media aligned with who goes on the show, who's successful. You know, I've heard rumblings about people say, like, there's now a correlation between the people that start on the podcast network with the Batchar Nation and then how they blow up on the show. And just your whole take on the social media space and people's intentioning going on and what it looks like after compared to what you went through in 2014, 15, 16, 17, 18. Yeah, I think, you know, mining like Caitlin's generation, Ben, Ashley, around those same people.

You're like on the, you're like a name between. The cusp, the gray area. Yeah, you're like between like millennials and Gen Z kind of thing. I think we were, we, we had a chance to be more genuine

with our intentions. You know, none of us were like, none of us were crazy enough just to go on the show for love. I'm not saying that, but we were just more going for the experience

because the opportunity wasn't so, the perception of the opportunity wasn't so obvious. Yeah. Nowadays, the perception of the opportunity is that everyone can make a killing. Sure.

Right. The reality is that it's still, I think only like 10% of the people who go on the show actually can have an opportunity. That's fair. Right? I'm just throwing that number along,

but it's a... I think anyone that gets any... Like a following at this point, honestly, if you get a following of 10,000, in weird ways you can still monetize. But you... Oh, you make a dollar. You can make a buck, but like...

Materially... I don't know how long it can go on or whatever. Sure. 100%. I don't think most people go on appreciate what it takes to be successful and have the follow through and determination to like, you know, to do what like Hannah-Anne is doing, right? She has a plan. She's following through. She's executing, you know? And I think, is Hannah-Anne under your network? Do you have some incentive tied to this? She's not. I just, like, I think I just from an outsider perspective,

just she's an example of how you, if you're a young woman going on the show, you should look at what she's doing and I think a lot of people go on that show and just assume you know like even if you do get a bunch of like you know ads like what's the long game you know because I do think there is a real opportunity and I wasn't sure about that like five years ago I was always like oh how when's this opportunity going to end sure when's it going to end and actually you put out something I think you tweeted something about you know what kids these days are saying they want to be when they grow up and used to be astronaut and this and that now it's like YouTube star sure and the landscape has changed. Like the way people are consuming media, the way they are finding their celebrities

and stars are different. And so people are following people. No, I don't know if that's a smart way to say it. So there is a real opportunity for people like us to create these brands or personas. You have to add value. You have to, like you're adding business acumen and investing value. Obviously, like I do a lot of stuff in the relationship and dating space. and I'm just, I'm trying to add value to my audience. And Ann's adding value by like, you know, baking and, you know, things like that. And you have to be passionate about it. You have to be good at it.

Because otherwise you're just, they cast 30, at a minimum, they're casting 30 new bachelor people every season. Right. You know, so that's competition. Four shows, 120 plus the leads, 125 people. And people love making fun of us. And we love to be, the people love making us the butt of jokes. just for going on the show.

You know, it's one of those things where everyone is a fan of the show, like our biggest fans are also our biggest critics because they see a bunch of us normal people, right? Nothing particularly special about any of us other than maybe like our faces are pretty, you know, okay. And so the perception is we get all these opportunities and it's kind of like, fuck them. Why do the, like, I could do that.

Sure. you know and and there's a lot of truth to that so you have to really prove people wrong that you have to be passionate about something they can't do you know the reality is is that you might know know how to invest but like are you committed to doing what you're doing on a daily basis and being someone that someone would be like i mean jason was on the bash but fuck i would go to him for like financial advice yeah yeah no i would trust him he's built credibility in this space you know whether it's through the guests he's had on or just the advice he's given him people all there and and so you have to prove your credibility i don't i think that's something that most people

who go on this show don't realize and take for granted and they assume that if they get yeah if you go on the show and get 300 000 followers you can monetize that for a period of time yeah but you know if you're a guy it's not going to be like if you're a guy with 300 000 followers that's like being a woman in this franchise having 75 000 followers correct and and that's the That's mostly based, would you agree with this, that's mostly based on the premise that the demographic you're selling to is women. And always a woman will outperform a man with that. Who would you hire if you're a brand? A woman who like uses like the hair curler you're trying to sell on her hair or the guy telling women that, you know what I'm saying? So there's less

opportunity, there's less product, you know. And so women selling to women makes more sense most the time than men selling to women. And so it's just highly competitive. And I think a lot of people who go on the show who get that followers spent a lot of time trying to figure out like how to make money and feel lost and they feel like well I have all these followers but I'm not making the money I thought I would or the money I think my peers are making or that like Caitlin's making etc etc and I sometimes think people don't appreciate how like the hard work that Caitlin's put into like her business and the follow through and like she's you know she's on TikTok she's on Snapchat She's on Instagram.

She, you know, like, I don't know what Caitlin does in a day of business, but I know, like, every day she's doing something for her business in her career. And I think that's something our peers often take for granted. And I think what most people don't realize in our peers and even the people watching take for granted is how much work, like you said, that stuff takes. And I think it's a good transition to your podcast because I, from a high level, will see what you do on your TikTok, how you put it on your YouTube, the guests you get, the time of the guests you get, how you do it.

I'm like producers work hard. Nick works about 10 times harder. Talk to me about how in just a couple years, your podcast has had the growth that's had, was nominated for the People's Choice Awards, and that you've actually created a network under it. What do you attribute to the insane acceleration and growth that you've had? Probably, yeah, more than a lot of that competition you're against, too. How do you think you've done it? well I like doing it I have a passion for it everybody likes to do it though

but how are you successful at it well well I I disagree with the premise that everyone likes to do it and what I mean by that if like if someone's like hey do you want to have a podcast and talk and I'll pay you some money most people are like sure

I think they all like to do it I think they're fine doing it I think they would rather do that than maybe go to their old job but I love doing it and I love the producing aspect. I take pride in the show. And I own my show. I own 100% of my show. It's my show. I work with a production company. I have a producer where there and they help and they certainly

add a lot of value and support me. But I'm the decision maker. The buck stops with me. I decide what goes on my show. I have a producer. Sure, they help produce. But like everything that on my show is is mine and my creative. That's not the same, that's not the norm. Yeah. And that has allowed me not only, you know, so I cared a lot about that. And so the first, and I bet, again, once again, I bet on myself. When I started my podcast, I took a deal where I owned all my show.

I got zero money up front. Okay. And I negotiated an aggressive split, which means, you know, the revenue split for podcasts. The production company gets a certain percentage. And then, you know, the talent gets a certain percentage. certain percentage, correct? And that can vary. So, like, 80%, 20%? I was getting 70% up front.

If there's one huge takeaway, it's Nixability to negotiate. Well, I got, and you're planning. I got 70% of nothing at the time. But you had 70% of your IP, which most people give a 100% of my, no, 100% of your IP, 100% of my IP, 70% of all ad revenue. Yeah. And which, that's what most people, like, okay, I heart, right? You go, get a big check.

up front but you get a check up front you get in your you're splitting half you're getting like a third of a half yeah gotcha understood so you've been on yourself though and so and then the first nine months i didn't look at the numbers i don't certainly look at my paycheck because i didn't make shit you know i was making a little bit on being a little bit disingenuous there but like they got a couple upfront ads here and there but for the first nine months It was a grind, and I didn't look at the money coming in. How many hours a week you think you're spending on it? I don't know, 30.

Yeah. You know, we were doing one show a week at the time. Yeah. But, again, there's casting. I was reaching out to friends, hustling. Hey, do you want to do this? Do you want to come on my podcast? What ideas should we talk about?

Everyone can, like, talk, everyone can come up with a podcast and think of, like, three episodes. Sure. How you come up with, too, how many you have now? 300. I'm where we're 350 we're calling it on. And you book all your guests? No, I mean, not now. Okay.

But at first, you were, okay. I was. And I still do a lot of the booking in the sense that, like, it's just a, now it's a team effort. It's a collaborative effort. And we serve with one show. Now we have three shows a week. But again, I was just dedicated to it. Uh-huh.

And I bet on myself. And again, I get repeating that. But I believed in what I was doing. I liked what I was doing. And I thought, I was willing to take notes. I was willing to get feedback. and in month nine, it blew up. Okay, I need a little more, though, because I agree with you.

I do agree with you. I'll take it back that not everyone does it because they love it, right? I'll agree with you that you probably like talking about this subject much more than Ben Higgins does, so I agree with that. But there's got to be some type of secret sauce, some type of you're sitting there business planning as to how you've been able to do it. And is there, like, if someone that's listening that might be planning for a business or a podcast or something?

Is there something? What differentiated you from everyone else to blow up after nine... Blowing up after nine months in a podcast is 0.000-0-0-0-0-1% of all podcasts? Sure. Well, I think a lot has to do with the passion and what I mean by that is like...

And again, it's a combination of me being passionate about it, owning it. If you don't own your show, right? Then certainly as the talent, they'll take your ideas, but at the end of the day, if the person who's producing it, who's in charge, who has a final say, they get to do what they want to do, right? And I think when you are a podcast that's owned and operated, you know, either by IHeart or Warner Brothers, their goals might be different than your goals.

Sure, right? they might be looking for early return on their investment and making money up front where I could say, I don't care how much money I make in the first nine months. What I care about is the quality of the show, what I care about is the content, what I care about is,

and then I also just believed in what I had to, you know, again, like starting a, I knew, I knew that I was really good at giving my friend's relationship advice. I knew I delivered it in a way that resonated with people. Yeah. they were hearing it differently than all their other friends.

And I believe that if I was given an opportunity, that would pop. And I tried with my questions with Nick, I do on my Instagram, I tested it out, and that took off. And you talk about consistency. Every Sunday. I do it every Sunday. I noticed that. And anyone listening, you're probably like, oh, it's not hard. That's, you're carving out probably three, four hours minimum.

Yeah, two at a minimum. And I don't care if I'm trying. I did questions with Nick while I was at the Golden Globes. you know early in the day you know or football Sunday and like it's something like now I do questions with Nick you know I'm going to Ben's wedding in Nashville

right and on Sunday after the wedding I'll do questions with Nick for two hours and again it's this commitment to letting people know this is what I want to do this is what I can do and then proving to them that I'm good and building credibility in that space for a guy who was portrayed

is unlucky in love and bachelor world not always easy to say I'm the guy you should go to for like your relationship struggles. Like pick me, you know? Like, but I knew I was good at it and I was dedicated to it. So I believed in myself.

I took a lot of advice. I sat down with people. I humbled myself to learn when I didn't know stuff. But more than anything, I think it's just having a passion for it. And yeah, I was not, not worrying about making money up front and I think that's you could anyone starting a business and

my podcast I look at as a business and investing in your product and investing in and in the front end and making sure it's a quality product that people will love and come back for it's important in all aspects of business and I wanted to create a show that people would give a chance to I figured they'd give a chance and it's a fucking bachelor person I'd do a swipe up on my Instagram like fuck it I'm talk, you know, but are they going to come back? Yeah. You know, everyone will listen to it once. And so I was focused on that and, and I figured if it works, the money will come. If it doesn't, I'll move on. And I just think a combination of all those things was the secret sauce, you know? That's, that's fair. Do you think like either

being extremely critical or polarizing or super opinionated helps drive the engagement with episodes? Yeah. I mean, I definitely think in podcasting, I, I mean, I like being liked as much as the next person, but one of my agents, like at UTA when I sign them, they're like, what do you like to do? What are you good at? I'm like, I'm good at giving an opinion.

I'm good at having a thought and I know how to articulate my thought. I don't say things I don't mean, but I'm not afraid to say things even if I think people might disagree. In fact, I like playing devil's advocate. I like, especially when it comes with like recap and the fucking Bachelor, right?

I know how that show works. I know what the show is trying to get the audience to think. I know the show tries to sometimes, they want the people to think both sides, but there are oftentimes that I see the audience going one direction, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with them. I just want to be able to point out and then articulate what. It's the why, right? I like asking why. I like explaining why. I think a lot of people, when they get asked and answered questions, they just take things at face value. I like looking into the weeds and like, well, why do we think what we think? Let's discuss it. Let's break it down. I think, you know, that

kind of analytical mindset and my brain has served me well in the space, you know, and then at the risk of people saying, well, I don't agree with that. I will still be willing to have that discussion anyways. Like in the podcast space, it was, it was early on, you know, it was after I had Hannah Brown on my podcast. And Hannah Brown, it was before Hannah Brown got herself in trouble with the things she got herself in trouble with. Sure. But we were talking about podcast and she said and did something I didn't quite like and I we were discussing like and I don't ever want to be critical I don't like being mean I don't like I hurts my feelings when people think I'm being mean to people but like at the same time if we're choosing to go on the show and I've got

plenty of yourself you've got you don't get to go on the show and and and make all this money potentially and get all the praise and I have criticism and think that you're you don't get to get criticize. But I try to be fair and objective. I know people won't always agree with me. But I was like, to tell my producer, I'm like, I'm going to say, I want to discuss this about Hannah Brown. I forgot what it was about. And it was ultimately nothing. But it was just the idea that we might criticize Hannah Brown at all. Keep in mind, very popular bachelor. Huge mass following. Very passionate audience. Yes. Very passionate. Yep. My producer is like, I don't know if we were looking at. I want to take it easy.

I was like, listen, you might not know this, but there's this sports commentary and his name's Colin Kyle Hurd. I was explaining to her. And he, and I'm a Packer fan. Sure. And Colin Kyle heard historically when he talks about Aaron Rogers

and granted this is before, like recently Aaron Rogers certainly had been in the news and deserving, you know, depending on what you think, but he's gotten criticized by some people. Big time, yeah. Before this, it was just about football. And I said to her,

every time Colin Calhard talks about Aaron Rogers maybe not every time but it sure feels like every time he's critical of Aaron Rogers and do you know how many times when I know when there's a headline where Colin Calhard's talking about Aaron Rogers

do you know how many times I click and press play knowing he's going to talk shit about my quarterback there's the secret sauce I was looking for 100 times I listen to that I listen to it every fucking time I don't listen to Colin Kerrard all that much And when he's talking about things, I'm not interested.

But when he's talking about my quarterback, I listen. You're in. Even though I assume he's going to talk shit. Yeah. And I, but I still think it's important. I don't say things just. But he's also talking the truth, right? He's talking shit, but it's the truth.

His opinion, what he thinks. Or his opinion. He articulates it very well. Sure. I often disagree with them. Yeah. Sure. Right.

And you have to be willing to be disagreed with in this space. And it's tough in this world. I mean, you still, you have to, you can't say, like, So what did you say to her? I don't worry about the topic, honestly. Interesting. All right, let me ask you this. So, yeah, you just have to be able to say it.

And, like, I have no interest in being Skip Bayliss who, like, says shit to get a reaction. Right, right, right. You know, I want to be able to say what I think and articulate it and mean what I say. Because you think that and you believe it. Yeah. One thing I want to talk about is what you just hit on, I think a lot of people struggle with in all business forms, is how you separate personal life with business life, how you can manage those two from not crossing over. How you could have like a really upfranced, tough discussion because you believe in it and not have to worry about repercussions,

maybe when you leave the office or at the next networking event. And this question just came from the fact that you had mentioned going to Ben's wedding, right? I was supposed to go to Ben's wedding too. We have Caitlin's tour, I'm guesting in Boston so we can't go. But like I know there's this world of business where you've probably had to talk about things like Sean. You've probably, you know, you and Blake have kind of gone at it. You know, there's different people and personalities you should express your opinion the way you feel because you're justified to do it but then there's the personal world of like now you have to go to like a wedding and interact and deal with this how do you manage either in that example or any example the bridge

and hybrid between business work business life and how it could potentially impact personal life uh yeah i mean i think my biggest in general i i have have a worker's mentality so i have a heart and And being, I guess you could say, an entrepreneur in owning my businesses, like I don't take vacations because I don't quote unquote get paid. So it's hard for me to turn it off. And I had something I need to work on, especially like being in a relationship, you know, like I can't just say, oh, it's work. I have to put the phone down or set some time for quality time.

So I think that more anything is important and something I have to always work on because I get really anxious when I feel like I, especially like in the podcast, podcast space. Like, it's this highly competitive. I just feel like if I, any moment I feel like, oh, this is going well. And if I get comfortable, I have like a panic of people passing me by. So work-life balance that, I think is important. That other stuff, I don't pay too much attention to it. Again, like, going back to like, I don't say things I don't mean. Sure. I don't, I wouldn't say anything on my show, I wouldn't say to someone's face. And if people want to come up to me and talk about it, talk about it. I'll talk about it. I've reached out to a handful of people behind the scenes. I've

made calls and said, hey, I, you know, I hear you're upset or mad. I'm happy to talk to you about it. I'll tell you exactly why I said what I said. I stand by what I said. I think, you know, people I criticize sometimes don't want to look in the mirror or it's like, I put this out there because you put this out there. If you don't want to get criticized, don't fucking put it out there. If I put something out there, I have, like, I can't sit there and bitch about me. getting criticized for people disagreeing with me on my show. And people disagree with me a lot, you know? You know, if I think I got it wrong, I'll acknowledge it.

And if not, I move on. But I think for the most, I just, I'm certainly, you know, like I don't hold grudges. I think that's another thing that I think has served me well. If I felt like I held grudges, like quite honestly, I don't think we'd be sitting here. Like, Keel and I've had some tough conversations. You know, when she was dating Sean, I didn't necessarily appreciate how she handled it. I understood and empathized with her point of view

in the situation she was in. But whether it was like Caitlin talking some shit about me or the bachelor producers who I felt like sometimes like, you know, like threw me on the bus, like I don't burn bridges. And I'd set my ego of which I recognize I have one aside for like, like, and my feelings hurt, you know, or was I really wronged? Yeah, totally.

And will I get over it? Probably. And so, like, I've have a, I could go about it, like, holding a lot of grudges and saying, fuck you. But if I did that, I wouldn't be sitting where I am today. If I talk shit about the show or I blamed everyone else for my decisions, like, I don't feel like, yeah, do it. I didn't like my edit sometimes and shit like that. But, like, I made choices. I have to hold myself accountable.

I have to, like, own some of my decisions. I knew I was taking certain risks. And sometimes those risks didn't work, you know, didn't. it work out the way I hoped and like I you have to just own your shit because when you start blaming other people for the things that you don't like your problems you're not going to get anywhere right and I just am a big believer in that and I would rather just look at what I can control and move on and not hold grudges and be okay and then move forward rather than live in the fucking past and let it weigh me down totally and that's just how I go about it and I I just if

if other people don't want to go about it that way, that's more on them. And if I get in a room of someone who, like, I don't like or something they've done, I don't, like, I don't, like, I don't, I don't, like, I'd say hi. And if they want to, like, have a conversation, I'll talk about it. And I'll tell exactly why I thought, you know, think the way I do. I appreciate that. And I do think that most people in this world don't do that. And I think people could benefit severely if in the business world, they took that approach of

stand up for what you believe and say what you believe and stay behind it and take ownership when you're confronted on it and also call people out right like you've said that katelyn talk shit i remember when you and i first talked after katelyn and i start dating i came to you and mentioned something like dude you're just giving a shit at extra saying we're doing this for social media and you're like well that's how it felt and you and i sat there eye to eye and you might not remember the conversation talked through that yeah you don't have those conversations you don't take ownership you don't call people out by the way you're thinking, how are you ever going to get the results in life, in business, and relationships that you're looking to achieve?

And again, like, both Caitlin and I have recognized at times we have gone, let our pettiness get the best of us. Sure. And there are times where you're like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have said that and I'm sorry. And I think the, you know, and Kayle and I have learned that. And we've had our ups and downs and we've both made our mistakes. But I think, you know, something I've always really respected about her is that, like, and I think something I've tried to do for myself is like,

Yeah, again, you just got to just own what you've done. Say you're sorry. We need to say sorry. And like, don't take yourself so serious that you think you're above any criticism, especially being a part of this fucking world. Exactly. That's well said. Nick, we got five minutes here. I got one question for it. I need your trading secret. And I need you to tell everybody where they can find everything you have going on. The one question I have, and you could say over, under, or pass. And I'm going to do it because I kind of broke it down, dissected you a little bit. the fact we talked about that you were almost broke going on the show. Now I'm looking at your podcast. 600,000 downloads on one podcast, absolutely crushing it. I have a projection. I am going to guess. And you tell me over underpass.

In an annual basis, 750K. I think you make over. Like overall on my podcast? On your podcast. Over. Knew it. Nailed it. You're an honest man.

Down from nothing in the bank account, grinding, taking a shot in L.A. over. I mean, that's incredible. You're killing it. You're absolutely killing it. You're also giving me a look right now. What are you thinking? I don't like talking numbers. No one likes talking numbers, but I think the reality is, the more we talk about numbers, the more, like, you just saying that might inspire someone to be like, all right, I need to go do that thing I wanted to do because I never thought I would do it. You know, all right. So, Nick, we have, the name of the podcast is trading secrets. You've done a lot. Salesforce, double-me, major, grinding in the corporate America. You've been on every show and Bachelor that they offer.

And you've built, I haven't been, I didn't do winter games. Okay. Okay. So one off. You've built an insane business behind it. One trading secret that you could give some listener as they're pursuing life navigation, financial navigation, career navigation that we can wrap up with. I've said it a handful of times as a podcast, but if given the opportunity, bet on yourself, I got a question yesterday for that questions, Nick, and some girl said, I just got my dream job in my hometown, but I always wanted to move to a major city. Like, what should I do? And that's all the information I had.

So, like, you know, it's not like I could get a word. Sure. But I mentioned bedding yourself, you know, like, what is this dream job? Is it really your dream job or is a job you always thought you wanted? And could you do that same job in a different city, even if you have to maybe not get it right away, but you do the same work you did now to earn it, you know, type of thing. So look at the variables and if you can, if the difference between you getting what you really believe you want in your dream is this a little bit more work and having to work harder

to the person to your right and your left, just bet on yourself. And number two is anytime you have an opportunity to own something, own it. Like owning 100% of your business, I mean, it will more than quadruple your earning potential and don't do something right away for the quick buck, you know, don't do something for a paycheck. That's, yeah, that's the, I mean, I think my lucky stars. But the difference between owning my podcast and not owning it is a big fucking difference.

As you heard, a big fucking difference. And not only that, but just motivate you to work harder than you could ever imagine yourself working. Nick, we got to wrap up and close this studio up. Anyone that wants more of you, your oils, your podcast, anything else you have going on, where can people find it? Check us out, NHOils.com for natural habits. You're looking for essential oils, whether it's just scenting your indoor air

or you're looking for a non-avasive approach to stress, anxiety, sleep, headaches, or center roll on. I'll tell you what, like people swear by it in their ability to help with their headaches if you're just simply trying to maybe reduce the amount of ibuprofen you take. other than that Instagram Nick Vile and TikTok the two biggest platforms I invest most of my time

the Vial Files anywhere you stream and listen to podcasts we're also on YouTube if you want to watch and then VialFiles.com for any merge or more access to podcast stuff Nick Business, Finances,

Bachelor, everything in between podcasts I could have talked to you for another three hours but I really appreciate your time today it's good to see you Thanks for having you You have fun at that wedding Thanks I'm happy

I'll miss you on Digging that dream. Making that money, money. Rain on me. Making that money. Ding, ding. We are ringing in the Nick Vial episode, part two with the Curious Canadian. Wow, it's been great to have Nick on the show.

The before, the after. I think this is something I want to do more with people from reality TV and actually The Bachelor, because it's so fascinating to hear what their stories were before they went on and how drastically it changed. And even small things. Nick talking about the fact, he almost didn't go on Paradise. And if he didn't, he wouldn't have his seven-figure podcast and multi-million dollar enterprise going right now. So an interesting episode, as always, we got the voice of the viewer, David Ardowen to give us his take. David,

I'm going to first kick it off with this. Before part one, you said, you didn't think you were the biggest Nick Vial fan. After part one, you're like, he's growing on me. Now part two. What do you think. Be honest with me. He's definitely he talked about he's definitely humbled himself and I think, you know, with the kind of niche he's craft outed for himself in terms of like relationship advice. Like that's kind of his thing. Like I think you have to

humble yourself, especially with this track record. Like he said, like he's failed at relationships up until this point. So I definitely think he's proven that. I think his tone of voice like he thinks before he speaks a little more now. But you know me. I mean, the reason you wanted me a part of this is like

I would say the same about myself. was Nick. I say I'm very opinionated. I think about what I say, but then I say it. I stand by what I say. So like I can't hate a guy who kind of takes that like stance in the ground. So definitely felt myself more like appreciating, liking. And like you said in part one, like I would love to meet the guy eventually to just cross that line to be like, okay, this guy is completely different than I had, you know, kind of perceived him for originally. So I got time for Nick. Yeah. And I actually give him a lot of credit for this. I give him so much credit. And I, you know, obviously, like, he's had his arguments with Blake and some other people.

And obviously, people know I'm good friends with Blake. But, like, I'll even say to Blake, what you can't discredit Nick for is when he says something, he stands behind it, and he's willing to talk through it. He's not talking shit and running. He's not completely, like, chirping you and not willing to take ownership of it. He says what he says. He takes ownership. I have heard him say, shit, I completely disagree with.

I've heard him say things I completely agree with. And the one thing is, is even in the circumstance him and I had, he took ownership where he was wrong. And like he'll admit when he was wrong, if proven wrong. You got to give credit first for that. Yeah.

When you said at the end of this episode, like, yeah, me and you sat down because you thought me and Caitlin were in it for social media clout and that was it. I was like, when I said that to him, I was like, holy shit. And the fact that he's able to have that,

like sit down man and man conversation. I love that. He went on a, And it was like extra one of those TVs saying, like, either like, what do you think of it right when we started doing it? He was like, it's very social media focused or something like that. This was in like 2000, early 2019. And so when I saw him next, I talked to him about it.

And he's like, and so what his point was, he's like, from my perspective, the lens that I could see, this is why I thought it seemed very social media focused. And this is exactly why I said it. And I said, well, I understand from your lens. That's what you see. But let me explain to you my lens. why you're wrong there. And it was just a frank conversation, addressed the discussion on the topic, both admitted where we could see where one another was wrong and came to a solution. And I don't know,

I think that's like a lot of things in life, though. Like people, the bosses can't do that. Relationships can't. Like those are important things. Everyone has so much, they lead with so much ego. You can't actually get to the bottom of like where people are seeing the world from and the lens and perspective. When you have an absolute wagon of a machine that is the bachelor's, Nation, you need a Nick Vial. Like, whether you like it or not, Nick Vial has been more a part of all of the production programming that the Bachelors had the most more than anybody.

And so he now has, like, the authority to speak on certain things. And like he said, take a polarizing side, play Devils Advocate. Like, we all know the back, and you know what the best, like the Cairns out there, the Bachelor Nation machine. Like, they want to get on on topic. They will go, like, bury it. They will go full steam ahead, build a snowball to take something out or get their point across, and he's there to be like, you know what, this is, you're thinking this

because this is how they positioned it. This is why they said it. This is the producer's goal. This is what they're trying to create. So it's, you need someone to kind of be that person with something like this big. Yeah. Completely agree. Completely agree. All right. So give me your take. What are some things. So I think he does a really good job of that. One thing I want to talk to you about that he actually touched on in the part one and I need to kick it off in part two because it's just such a fascinating way he put it was when you get off the show and you have a little bit of following, being able to identify the difference between access versus credibility. And I think as a viewer of the show, I think you can so see the difference between people who are taking

a more humbled approach in terms of, you know, access and the people who are kind of cementing themselves as like credibility that I think can rub fans the wrong way. So I just want to throw that to you and, you know, see if you really felt that and were in situations where you had to kind of maybe check yourself or realize it or see it amongst your peers in the show. But access first of credibility. Talk to me about that a little bit. Okay. So first of all, he's absolutely right with the whole access and credibility thing. Access is that people will open the door. They will give you the opportunity to talk to you because of something that they have interested in or that they saw you. The question is, once that door is open, do you have the credibility

in means to maintain what you're there for? I talk a lot about this in my book. too. When I talk about like the brand that I was able to build outside of the bachelor is that, you know, I had this MBA and I had this business stuff and this whole background, the idea is like, how can I make it happen? What can I do to get the attention of those who are very credible in this space? And this is the access. So I had to think about how I could sell myself to a Gary Vee, to a Kevin O'Leary, to a Mark Lurie, man. We just had a multi-billionaire on the show who was the CEO of Walmart. If you told me three years ago I could have a conversation with this guy, I would tell you you're out of your, how could I knock on the door and be able to get the CEO of Walmart multi-billionaire to come talk to me? Then, David, let's take it the next step further.

Mark Lorry was posting about our podcast because we were able to get some really good stuff that he was saying that was inspirational and motivational to the people that are working and want to hear from a CEO like that. And then he posts it and all sudden we get a call and we're having a conversation because who does Mark Lorry own the Minnesota Tim? Wolfs with A-Rod. And David, I haven't even told you this. A-Rod's his partner. A-Rod knows about the podcast. A-Rod's coming on the podcast. No. Yes. You didn't tell me that. Right? So that is the definition of you have access. Can you build the credibility? But people hear them be like, oh, you want to fuck your other show. Like, shut the fuck up. But hang on. Anyone that's listening to this right now in some way or fashion or angle, you have access. to somebody.

You can use a relationship you have. You can use a, maybe you played at a certain, you're from a certain community, or maybe you played in a certain team. There are so many angles that can give you access, right? The question is, are you going to leverage it? And once that door opens, how are you going to build credibility?

And it's a beautiful topic that he brought up because there's so much truth to it in everything, not just bachelor stuff. Yeah, and then, you know, to build on the business-centric focus of this podcast, like how many times did he say bet on himself? like a million times you know leveraging like you said your your relationships your experiences your network like your access and then betting on yourself and believing what you do you know i think a

couple things that he brought up too like he said he would have done the bachelor for free and then he saw the future value in something that he was going to invest his at the end of day himself his time into luke pell wanted half a million dollars to be the bachelor i'm a big bachelor guy i'm a big bachelor i i had to like google him be like who is this guy and i was like oh yeah that guy so you just see like how your hard-headedness and, like, access versus credibility. Like, who the fuck are you, Luke Pelt to ask for $500,000 to be The Bachelor? Like, like, come on. That's one of the issues, though, every we see, Caitlin and I talk about all the time,

is when people get off this show, they forget that, like, this show keeps going. You're not the only lead. You're not the only beloved person. And they lose their head. And I have heard, I have witnessed us. I've seen leads speak to Caitlin. As if Caitlin wasn't the lead, like saying things like, they're way above Caitlin or something. Like, you know, like five years ago, she was in that same spot.

What happens is when you get off the show, nine out of ten people allow the momentum and the quick fame and the trending on Twitters and all that stuff to lose focus of who they are and what they are. And I think it gets to people's head and you're like, why you're negotiating $500,000 to be The Bachelor is I appreciate it. I think it's great. But Nick's right.

If you're The Bachelor, it is a golden parachute. It's a golden... If you're the Bachelor and you're not making a million dollars plus, I mean,

easy, easy, blindfolded in 2021, Clayton's show ends. If he's not making well over a million dollars in that first year out of the show, he has literally, completely,

fucked up. Yeah. Catastrophic. Catastrophic. Okay. So I'm going to take something you said and go a step further. The people who forget who they are, quote unquote, and they start leading this life that clearly rubs like the people who put them on this pedestal the wrong way. Now they have their little more polarizing. They start having some haters. Like, Nick is kind of one of those people that he's beloved in the bachelor nation world, but he has a lot of people, as we talked about in part one, my self-included, who look at him as just like polarizing, he's, you know, he's run me the wrong way, he's not genuine, he's this, he's that. How much do you think that is necessary in,

or not maybe necessary, but how much do you think that really can propel you to more success in this space? Because there are so many people on social media, I'm so sick to admit this, and even about your nation that I follow that I can't stand. And it's like a car crash. It's like, I can't look away because I need to see like how absurd they're being. how they're positioning self, what they're selling, what they're talking about, more so than I do, the people that I've met through you that I generally love that. It's just like one click and then I'm on to the next. Yeah. Because you're not the person, like, you don't have a lot of haters. You don't, you're not a very polarizing figure. You'd be able to like craft success of what you do.

But like, how much do you think that's helped, Nick? I mean, if you, this is just like, it's just talking about simple marketing, right? If you're polarizing, you will sell more than people who are likable. Simple. It's simple. You will sell more, you will get more clicks, you will get more listens. It's exactly what Nick said. The guy who hates on Aaron Rogers every single day, that reporter, Nick can't stand him. But when he talks about Aaron Rogers, Nick listens. And think about, just look at America as a society.

Like people talk about, okay, media outlets, right, Fox News and CNN, this guy sucks. He's a joke. You guys realize that most of these people are just laughing to the bank. Like Tucker Carlson, I'm sorry, the guy's a fucking complete asshole, right? but if you don't think that Tucker Carlson hits stop recording and is back with his wife and family just laughing like everything is strategic

he's polarizing and outrageous and an outlier because if you hate him or you love him you listen if you can't stand the guy or you love the guy you read his book and it doesn't stop and why do you think he's constantly on TV because he gets ratings and because ratings turned to dollars

and that's across everything. Politics, business, reality TV personalities. If you're polarizing, you will sell. I'm just like sitting over here, like shaking my head, like, and I'll just say it, like, how many times do I talk about Colton a day to you, like out of frustration because I just like, he's polarizing and I don't, and, you know, I support him and everything, but I think the like genuine, like the genuinary of like his, how he approaches things, I think is.

like, but he's everywhere. He's everywhere. He's positioned himself. You could say a lot of things about Colton. I'm surprised you would say polarizing. I think he's polarizing because I just think that his track record shows that he doesn't put anyone but himself first ever. Okay. So that very fair comment.

But when I'm talking about polarizing, I mean, so I think in your perspective, you think he's disingenuous or you think he's manipulative or you think he's calculated in working himself to be the front and take ownership. That's fair. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't consider him polarizing. I would consider someone polarizing who speaks like articulately and strongly and aggressively on one topic and won't move and they're in your face about it and they are creating complete contention amongst two different groups. Like, if you said to me, who is probably the most polarizing individual ever to exist, or at least in our lifetime, or at least in the last five years, who?

Donald Trump. Exactly. Like, a no-brainer, it's Donald Trump. Like, contention, pulling apart. Like, there's no moving. There's no. And actually, you know, what's interesting is, like, I've even found, like, Gary Vee, who's extremely likable, right?

But people ask me all the time, friends and family. What do you think about Gary Vee? Well, why is Gary Vee so successful? This is really interesting because Gary Vee, what I would say about him is he's actually lovable, but he is polarizing. Here's why. He has an opinion and he so aggressively can sell his opinion and explain his opinion and not move from his opinion. And he creates you to listen to. I'm listening to him. I'm nodding to him because he has such an aggressive thought process with what he's saying and how he's saying it and the way he's delivering it. and without that, you can't get attention. But polarizing is also like, I agree with that. Polarizing can be like that, like, front of the line, like talking head that's going to take the opposite side. But like polarizing to me is like, if you look at Nick Vial's podcast reviews, which I went through, like, they are polarizing because he has one stars and five stars.

He has like people absolutely shredding him and people loving them. If you click on Colton's comments about him promoting whatever he's promoting, there's going to be half the people that love and support. there's going to be half that like can't help themselves but call them out for you know a bunch of ways that it's perceived by them like that's it's that's polarizing like i just it's just so fascinating to me and and we as a culture and society like consume it but i just you know for you i've always talked to you about like you're not polarizing and that's not an insult you're just not like you have a you have a great reputation you have a great record you had a great you know great appeal on the show, a great edit.

You have a great family with KB and the two dogs and you're fucking crushing it and you're successful without being polarizing. But if I was polarizing, I would be doing much better with everything. I agree with that. I thousand percent agree with that. You and I are extremely close friends.

Do you think I'm polarizing like when we just talk? Yes. I think you're more polarizing when it's just like us in a chat or us in a group chat. Because that's like your comfort zone, though and I like respect that about you but then I respect people who can be that polarizing figure to the masses

like Nick Vial can like he's polarizing to the masses because he's more cutthroat or more like affirmed in what he's saying to the masses and he'll live by it where I think you just pick and choose what you talk about to the masses

and you're already affirmed in that and that's fine you just don't normally take the polarizing side of it. I think also too I have I was just thinking about this because I do have a lot of opinions I probably should share more of. One of the issues, though, is conflict of interest, right? You're moving so many parts, right? So everything I say I have to worry about my better half is like, first of all, I am so thankful for NZK productions. I am so thankful for ABC. The Bachelor has changed my life in every which way, but of course I have opinions.

I got to be careful, right? Her paychecks are from ABC and NZK. She's still aligned with them. They treat her well she's doing dance with the stars she was on dancing with the stars so like it also becomes a tough thing where you're you have to watch what you're saying based on the impact you know that could have even though it's an opinion that like you stand behind it's so much easier said than done like i've always encouraged you to kind of push the line more and then like me coming on here like i'm sometimes like obviously when we're not recording like the big bad wolf who like say say anything like be opinionated to be polarizing and then to get on the mic, even though it's just you and I talking

and the listeners, like it's still hard. Like you still have to like kind of check yourself. So it's a really, really hard situation. So back to like the polarizing like topic. There's people who who have decided to do it like a Tucker or like a like a Nick Vial consciously,

all the power to them. But it makes, you know, your 24 hours of living a little more on edge for sure. Oh, that's for sure. You better be able to have a, uh,

people will hate you. read those comments and take that people hate you and people love you all right one thing i know you wanted to talk about because you had mentioned to me when this pod was off is you found it fascinating this whole idea of like people from the bachelor trying to break the mold of being from the bachelor and alienating alienating themselves from the franchise or at least creating a brand off of the franchise just curious did you have any thoughts on that or was was any part of that conversation something that kind of got the curious canadian going yeah i mean i mean I mean, I just think that it's just so hard and there's so much competition you guys have coming

off the show that like, it's a fine line to, you know, everyone wants to branch off from being like that guy from The Bachelor. But it's also like, do you? Like, do you want to? Like, you have this absolute like machine wagon of like people supporting you. Like, you know, is that a fine line that you have to walk sometimes between like, how am I incorporating these people into like the things that I'm doing? Because you're so thankful and that's such a big part of your following and you're beloved by them? Yeah, I mean, I think that's, yeah, I think so. I think the thing is, is, I have a lot of opinions on this.

So let's, we'll back up a little bit. The first thing is, is, like I said in the podcast, anything you do that's outside of the Bachelor franchise on any type of social media platform will not perform as well. It won't do as well. And the thing is, is the reality situation is, that's just the nature of what your audience is. So I guess the question to you is,

suppose you own a business, right? Suppose you own McDonald's. You know what your demographic is. If you're at McDonald's, and all of a sudden, you know, they start selling, I don't know. Let's say they start selling like shoes.

You'd be like, what the fuck are you doing? Why? I just want a burger and fries because I'm drunk or hungover. to get these shoes out of my face. Or there's something on their menu that has nothing to do with their brand. I think that's like the simplest comparison

I could give to someone from The Bachelor. It's like doing other things. And it's tough to do. And you heard them talk about Hannah and doing it successfully and Rachel doing it successfully. And Caitlin doing it successfully. So I'm curious from your vantage point, you do follow a lot of people from Bachelor nation.

What are your take? Like, have you seen people do it successfully? Are there people that, like, do you want to see when you're watching someone over the Bachelor and you follow them? Do you want to see them talk about anything other than The Bachelor? Like, what's your take as a fan?

Yes, I definitely do because the more people that I see regurgitating more stuff about The Bachelor, it's like, makes me want to shake them and be like, there's got to be something more. Like, don't fall into the trap. So you want to see, you're like, give me more. Yeah, give me more. Like, yeah, we get it. You're into it. You're involved.

But like, give me more. Like, now is your opportunity off the show. It's almost like Nick said in like Salesforce. Like he learned how to sell himself. It's like, okay, you don't have to worry about your edits. You don't have to worry about the producers. you have to be captivated by your social media. Like, sell me on you.

Make me believe that I want to keep following you for the next year when there's three more, you know, a hundred more people in the bachelor verse. Like, sell me on you. Yeah, you can talk about it. You can be relevant. You can give your opinions and things like this. But like, give me more.

All right. I got another question for you. Now I'm the curious, curious Tarduk over here for the fan. How irritated, we've talked about it. Nick talked about it. I've talked about it. How irritated is a fan. do you get when a you learn how much money is made and two when you're seeing ads so suppose there's someone you

enjoy following and then you're seeing their ads are you like i get it are you like god this is fucking annoying like what's your what's like your true opinion when you see that yeah i love being in this hot seat right now i think that i don't hate it at all what for me the way i think of it like if i see a pilot pete do like an ad for something i'm looking at big okay pete i see you like what are you going to follow this up with? Like, are you just going to go add, add, add, are you going to add content, content, content? Like, anybody that's doing it's like, I get it. Like, hey, you've earned the right to use your social and promote things. But what is the, what are you, what are you now doing to keep me captivated, to keep me involved? And I think

that that's how I look at it. I can't, I can't hate on people for trying to make money off it. So you want, it's like a, kind of like a TV show. You want the show and you could put it, you could put a commercial up. You're okay with that. How about this? All the, I have a book coming out. You said, Pilot Pete, he is a book. Hannah has a book. Maddie has a book. Matt has a book. Everyone's got a book.

What do you think about the book game in the bachelor space? Do you have an opinion on that? Yeah, I mean, I think it's fucking absurd. Quite frankly, I think it, but, you know, I can't be just a troll hater. Like, I have to understand that there's purpose behind it. Like, Pilot Pete's children's book, think it's absurd. Pretty genius. first ever children's book

and boucher nation what's absurd what's absurd I mean just like Pilot Pete has a his name's pie I'm a grown man I call him Pilot Pete and he has a

a children's cartoon book with his face on it and it was all because he was on a reality show and had sex in the windmill four times like that's absurd that transaction of events is an absurd

transaction of events you know I you know devil's advocate I'd be like I agree with that but he built a platform And I actually think, like, if there's any book that Pilot Pete should have, it's a book that he loves aviation.

He does it every day. So, like, imagine, like, kids are scared about flying and now they're more comfortable. So, like, I'm, like, fucking brilliant. Oh, 100%. I mean, trust me. Everyone who has a comment about them has a hint of jealousy in there. Like, there's a hint of envy that's like, why couldn't I have gone on a TV show and then make a book about playing hockey?

And, like, now I'm making millions of dollars through my social. But everyone knows me as, like, David, the Curious Canadian who played hockey. and now he's making hockey children's book and he's just like laughing all the way to the bank. So that's a question. Okay, so this came up on my social media. This is a post I put up. And someone said to me,

so what exactly you do for a living? And this was my response. See, I think the problem that our society is that if we don't have a job or a title that fits the mold for how someone makes a living, we immediately judge and critique. I think we do this because, one, then instantly starts to find security.

within their safe professional decisions. So they will instantly judge someone who may have done it differently than what society tells us is professionally acceptable. I believe people are fed up with being dissatisfied within their career and living in the professional box

that was created by societal pressures, which is likely one of the leading motivators for one million plus people that have left their jobs in the last six months to create their own businesses and work for themselves. Precisely what I did two and a half years ago.

It may not make sense to the masses. I'm happy to explain to you exactly what businesses I own and what I do for a living in a DM. Most importantly, I'm happier than I ever was when I was stuck in my 9 to 5 corporate grind. And I've been very lucky that it's made me happier while becoming more lucrative than my banking job.

Take? All I can think of is what is that person doing when they're reading that message? They're just got to be shooketh. Like, they just sent this, like, not thinking they get a response and you just hit him with like everything. And you're right. I mean, you're totally right and everything you're saying.

And when I make these comments about like a pilot peter or something, or Nick Vial, like, I'm part of the problem, not the solution. Like, I know that. But if I'm going to consume it and they're putting it out there, I better have a take an opinion on it so then I can justify to myself, like, what I'm feeling about all these things so that I don't take myself too seriously in it as well. But it's part of it. Like, you put yourself out there and you put a children's book out, just like Nick

said with Hannah B when he had it on the podcast, like, I'm allowed to criticize it. If you're going to go on national TV and you're going to be about this and put people on blast and have a book and go through this, like you're susceptible to criticism as well. So it's not part of it. Handling like that is cool, though. I love it. Well, we talked about polarizing. We talked about being on the spot, being in the hot seat, and having the ability to be criticized.

David, I'm going to give you that opportunity next week. This was part two of the Nick Vial podcast. We are going to wrap up 2021. We thought about a podcast in January. We launched the podcast in March. The launch was a disaster. So we ended up bailing on the launch before episode one, out then launched in May. We have now had this podcast since the end of May. We are almost at

one million downloads. I'm hoping by the time this comes out, we hit the million mark. David, I'm going to let you interview me on everything you would like because we are going to wrap up the year, 1227, the last podcast of 2021 with a 2021 recap. And so I'm looking forward to that. Do you have any thoughts before we go into that episode next week? No, I mean, I'm excited. I think it mimics where we're at right now. One episode left before the new year, what Nick said. His first nine months were a grind I have in my notes. Like it sounds familiar.

But we did a Jason Tell All and I think in our third episode, you know, there are some people, some chirps out there, some critiques that we had about that. So we're going to fine tune it. We're going to come with the heat. I'm going to put Jay in the hot seat. He's going to give us some numbers. We're going to take you a trip down memory lane. Talk about what this nine months has been for us.

Give you a year and review. Let you know where we're at in terms of our downloads, in terms of, you know, what this pod is bringing for us. And we can't wait for you to join us for our last podcast of 2021. Last podcast of 2021. If you have any questions that you want, David, to ask, please give us five stars in the review, put your question and put your Instagram handle. We will look at those.

And, yeah, we got some last time we did this, I got critique that I wasn't open enough with my answers. The reason I wasn't open enough was the same reason. I said I wasn't polarizing enough. I was worried about contractual obligations. But David, you have my commitment. this podcast, I will go in depth on the contracts to see what I can and can't discuss. And there won't be any deciphering of, I wonder if I can, I'll know what I can talk about

and I'll be prepared to open those numbers. Guys, tune in next week for an episode. I hope you feel as though you can't afford to miss a 2021 recap with my businesses, with the podcast, with the numbers, and what some goals for 2022 will be. Tune in next Monday to another episode of Trading Secrets. One, you can't afford to miss.