Trading Secrets - 331. DWTS Flashback: Val Chmerkovskiy on the Business of Dancing, Betting on Yourself & Making It to Dancing With the Stars

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

Description:With a new season of Dancing With the Stars just around the corner, we’re flashing back and revisiting one of our favorite conversations with DWTS legend Val Chmerkovskiy. Originally recorded in 2023, Val opens up about his unconventional path from competitive ballroom dancing to becoming one of the biggest names on television, including why he initially resisted joining Dancing With the Stars, what finally changed his mind, and how his career evolved once he made the leap. Val also gets candid about the business of being a professional dancer, the financial realities of competitive dance, negotiating his value, building multiple streams of income, and why he would sometimes choose equity in a business over getting paid upfront. Plus, he shares the mindset that helped him navigate difficult seasons, career setbacks and the uncertainty of being dealt a bad hand: “delusional optimism.” From building Dance With Me Studios to turning his DWTS platform into a larger business ecosystem, this is a conversation about knowing your value, betting on yourself, and turning a passion into a career. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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professional dancer, choreographer, and dancing with the star's legend. Val Smirkovsky. Do I do it okay or no? We'll keep it. Schmerkowski. Schmierkowski? Oh, we're keeping this whole thing in because we're doing this right. One more time for the people. Let's hear. Val Schmerkovsky. Schmerkowski. Okay, we got it. There you go. We practiced that before, guys. We've given you a little behind the scenes. Have accomplished all that he could in the world of competitive dance. 14-time U.S. national champion, two-time world dance champion. Vail quickly rose to stardom after joining the show's cast in 2011. Since his TV debut, the dance champion continues to be a fan favorite

both on and off the dance floor. Vail continues to expand his talents as a dancer, choreographer, in addition to co-founding Dance With Me Studios, one of the nation's leading Latin in ballroom dance studios, where he also lends his experience as the venue's art director. He has also developed Dance With Me Juniors, a program designed to help keep kids healthy, focused and active in their communities. Today, we're going to discuss all things, the world of professional dance, balancing the life on dancing with the stars and his family, and how he has turned his fame into various other lucrative business endeavors.

Val, thank you so much for being here. We're excited to have that. God, that was a mouthful. That was an introduction right there. Dude, I really appreciate that. Does that, you feel good after that? Yeah, I want to stand up straight after that. I mean, but these accomplishments are pretty wild, right?

Like, you've participated in 18 season, first place in season 20 and season 23. You've come in second place in season 16 and just this past season, third place in season 19, and season 22, season 24. When you hear this stuff, because sometimes on a day-to-day basis, you're just grinding. When you start to, like, hear all these numbers, U.S. national champion, all this stuff, did you ever anticipate that you would have accomplished from a resume standpoint in the world to dance what you've accomplished at your age? Yeah.

So this was always the vision. I mean, it wasn't a clear vision just because there was never a blueprint. It's a very unique thing that I was able to build the life that I've built through the vehicle of competitive ballroom dancing. Like, what is that? You know what I mean? And why am I doing that? So it's a very kind of niche thing. And that's why I preach my love for this country and the opportunity that it gave me and my family to realize my potential in the most.

unique kind of way there was, you know? So, and a lot of luck involved along the way as well. So looking back at those things, I'm grateful for all of those times and those opportunities to accomplish those things. That's amazing. Some people don't even have a chance to accomplish things, you know, for whatever reason. So I guess the feeling is more gratitude. And also, you know, it's like my trophies.

They ask, like, Dancing with the Stars trophies, where do you keep them? I don't even, one, I don't even know where it is, to be honest. And then the other one is like in a guest room somewhere. Interesting. You know, because for me it's less about celebrating those wins and more about, you know, celebrating the level and the quality that I had to be as a performer, as a dancer, as a student, whatever it is that accomplishment was, I had to be a certain quality to have accomplished that.

And I'm proud of that because there's a lot of really great dancers out there. So if I was able to be first in that competition, that means, you know, I brought something to the table. Yeah, there's so many people we have that have this niche skill set that come on. I would think that they're motivated by the rewards, by the accolades, or by the money. And almost all the people that have exceeded this, like, outlying expectation aren't. And, I mean, it's probably just a sexy thing to say as well. You know, you don't want to be like, that's all I ever wanted. That's true.

Well, some people come on. They're like, all I give a shit about is money, and that is it. Well, the other thing, too, about the money is I heard those Dancing with the Stars, those trophies are like 10 to 15K, I heard. Have you ever heard that? Yeah, I heard they cost like 10 to 15K each. We're going to have to audit that. Yeah, you're going to audit that. Let me know what you hear.

I'm going to do a ton more research and the recap we're going to address it. One thing you talked about is that this career is not a blueprint. If someone is listening to this and they are a dancer or someone is listening to this who is a parent of a child who is a dancer, what does that professional outlook look like? Obviously, you've done it. But for the majority that say, I'm going to be a professional dancer, what does that look like? What career options are there? First of all, it's a life of a lot of risk and love. I love to dance.

It's not just a vehicle for me to make money. It's a vehicle for me to realize my potential, at least in this arena, which is dance and performance. It's a dream job. This season, you know, speaking of Gabby and this season and the ride that we had, making it all the way. Like, there were times that I couldn't believe that I'm getting paid for this. You know, I should be paying people to be able to collaborate with a really talented young woman, to be able to get it on camera and in the process, create content that, you know,

makes people happy at home all around the world. And then every Monday I have the most talented production team. I get to enjoy that. Like, not a lot of dancers or performers or anybody really get a chance to live. live that type of work week, you know, for which I get really handsomely compensated as well. You know, so it's truly a dream job that I appreciate regardless of all those things because there's, you know, the iceberg below this tip. Like this is, I wouldn't say that this is the tipping point for my career, but it's really up there. But underneath all of that is

jobs I did for free, you know, dancing in restaurants when I was like 12, 13 years old for like 20 bucks, you know, teaching like 14 hours a day, every day, you know, for 20 bucks an hour. Like, there's a huge grind that led up to this privilege that I enjoy now being on Dancing with the Stars. Yeah. So, it sounds like being on Dancing with Stars, like you said, it's like kind of the pinnacle of being a professional dancer. But behind that, the way that you can monetize in dancing is doing some type of performances.

I would imagine, like, touring with an artist. something and then like landing like a Broadway gig are those kind of like the main ways that if you really want to actually make it in this without having the luxury and opportunity to be at the top those are the ways you you would drive income those are some of the major kind of revenue streams and platforms you can you know take your dance profession into okay i try to capitalize on all of those lanes yeah now there's a new lane which is disrupting all businesses which is social media. You could have a dancer

that wasn't able to make those things work that is now making a living, you know, producing content for this device and is realizing his dance, his or her dance potential and capitalizing out. Yeah, I mean, the whole TikTok scene with the dancing and to see some of these people taking off and then you see the dollars behind it.

Yeah, what's unique is we had Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers and like the famous dancers. I, you know, obviously dance has always been big in American entertainment. Like when you said, you could also dance for an artist. That is a venue. Dancing with the stars is so unique that it also, you know, we are the dancer and the artist. So when we go on tour, like Caitlin went on tour, she hosted a dance tour. That is also very unique.

So it's a great kind of time for dance, and I'm proud of that. But again, my journey throughout wasn't me like, I want to be a dancer. It starts with like, I want to do whatever it takes to be successful in this country because I'm watching my parents work their butt off to give me these opportunities. So I was very aware at a very young age how much my dance lesson cost and what my parents had to give up to pay that. And so in that class, that already drove me to produce effort and go places. that maybe other kids weren't willing to go. I've talked about a little on this podcast.

So I grew up playing hockey, right? And I was talking about these days, hockey sticks are like three, 400 bucks. And I kind of got behind the cost of that sport and how crazy it is. One thing I have no idea about is if someone does have a kid that's getting a dance, what are those price points? Like to pay for lessons and to really be trained well.

Like, what is the cost of getting into dance if you're younger? Yeah, it's expensive. It's tennis, golf. You know, there are costumes you've got to pay for. their shoes and entry fees and, you know, a lot of major competitions are in Europe. That was the big kind of tipping point for my careers that my parents, being immigrants in Brooklyn without really any money, found money to send me to Germany for the German Open Championship, where instead of like three couples that I was competing against here in America,

there's like 600 couples from all over Europe, all over the world, competing for this really prestigious trophy. And so I was exposed to the best in the world. That allowed me to go back home and train, not for the challenge around me, but the challenge that I saw overseas. Again, now social media changes that in a sense that you can see some of the best around the world

from sitting at home. Back then, you had to really make the effort. to go and see what that looks like. What age was that that they sent you out? Twelve. Twelve years old. Yeah, 12 years old. Yeah, 12 years old.

Yeah. Wow. That's fantastic. Eleven years old was the first time I competed against Mark Ballas. Get out of here. At the U.S. Open, yeah. And he was representing England. He was this British champion little kid, you know.

And I was this kid from Brooklyn with my, you know, partner. And we met at the U.S. Open. And who won that battle? With your 14 U.S. titles, I had to imagine you won that right? I did. And he was second. And he came in as the British, which is the most prestigious competition we have in the world. He had just won that.

This is like the Wimbledon of Borum dancing. So now fast forward to when he won dancing with the stars and we were second. That was a really... Full circle. We have many circles like that. Of the pros that are on dancing with the stars, how many of them did you either compete or like know about them as professional dancers before you... Many, many. Artum.

So in regards to Gayland, Autumn is something. one that I had known since I was like 18, competed again since I was like 19. Okay. You know, which is a long time ago. Okay. So 2011. Everybody, like really a lot, a lot of kids, yeah. That's pretty cool.

So it's a small circle. It's a very small circle. Of the people who are like at the premier level, whether you're coming from across the seas, you're in the States, you guys kind of know each other. Yeah. And have an idea of like who the who is in this up and coming. I know Artem before he even moved to the States type. or Gleb.

Yeah. I've, I've known him before he even moved to the United States. That is fascinating. It's from the circuit of dance. Yeah. Like I said, it's a very small world and the fact that we had this opportunity that there was a reality show based around ballroom dancers being paired up with celebrities, that changed kind of a lot of lives in the dance business.

Yeah. Do you think dancing with the stars like the producers and the production and the people that are running the show, are they almost looking at who are the next 10, 12, 14, 16-year-old, like elites across the country? Or do you think they're like, eh, those guys will cross the bridge when they get here? Yeah, I don't think they reach as far back as 14, you know, it's hard to bet on a show in Hollywood, you know, like, we got X amount of seasons, good, let's worry about those seasons. Let's get rid of, let's take the next one. But I send a lot of, you know, because when the show is over, I'm still in the dance space. There are a lot of dancers that I come across that I'm like,

yo, Dancing with the Stars, check her out or check him out. They would be amazing. Or, you know, a couple from Europe that's moving to the States, you know, and be like, yo, they'd be great on Dancing with the Stars. I'm not stingy with my part on the show. I want Dancing with the Stars to be successful with or without me. You know, I think it's an important show for dance as a whole. Yeah, I love that. How did Dancing with Stars find you? 2011 what was that journey like so I have an older brother Max yep and he joined the show season two way before I joined right and you know he kind of really quickly made a name for himself how did he get found he was the top professional dancer in the United

States wow yeah and they asked him for season one and he turned it down how come we are proud committed athletes and artists to to our craft and And for us to sell out and move to babysit celebrities on a reality show in Hollywood was just not something that was interesting to us at all. Interesting. You know, that's the mentality. Yeah. It's so fascinating to hear that versus like, of course, your appreciation today.

Today you're like, I feel like I'm at the highest point and how that's changed. Yeah, of course. And I mean, yeah, it's growth. That's growth. At that moment, that's how we felt. That's how he felt. And, you know, and then season one, it was kind of like a pilot season. It was only six episodes.

It aired and, you know, it got the ratings that it got, a band of Holyfield, did the Foxrod. People have never seen this type of, you know, it was novelty television in a way, but also wrapped up in a kind of beautiful, like, human experience that people just love to see. And it exploded, you know, and season two, thankfully, they approached them again. And again, he said, no. And this time we were all like, bro, you got to go. Give it a shot. Yeah, give it a shot.

And if it's not for you, then you could always come back and continue to do what you do. And he was 25 and he moved out and that's it. It kind of changed his life, our life in the process. When you saw him go on the show and have success with it, at that point for you, was it like always a target? I got to get on dancing with the stars. Not really still, you know, because again, the pride. So it still was there, though. That pride that even though the show was like,

season three, season four, season five, it's now getting established. It's now getting millions of views. It's now compensating dancers in a way that they've never been compensated before. It's now putting them on the front of people magazine. And you still at this point, I'm still like, bro, I'm not even interested in that. That's a beautiful thing that I can enjoy vicariously through my brother. Interesting. You know, and cool.

And I flew out. I performed actually a few times because, you know, it's a new space and now it's discovery. and now there's a new new guy you know season two is this you know max this you know what is this accent and what is this ego and then they did a piece on him and they realized he has a kids dance studio born dance studio in new jersey he has a younger brother val who's you know a champion and then there's like 15 year old 14 12 year old kids you know and they did a story on us and we came out to the show and we performed and it kind of blew people's mind because they also saw borum dancing on on smaller bodies smaller kids. They're like, oh my God, kids, kids can do this. And, you know, it kind of exposed me to the show and the show to me. And I guess that was the first recruitment, I think the show did. Got it. And a few years later, yeah, the few years later, Derek joined the show, Mark joined the show, Julianne show. Now these are more my peers, you know, these are now my brother's peer. Now these are my peers. And so now, yes, I am looking. You know, and now I'm seeing that. And also through my journey, I just, I just was focused on, like,

You know, the money and the success is not worth me breaking my word to myself that I made myself 10 years prior. You know, as a 15-year-old kid or a 10-year-old kid, I wanted to accomplish certain level of competitive ballroom dancing. I wanted to win this title, this title. And I just wasn't there yet at that time. What titles had you not won that you wanted to before you accepted Dancing with Stars? Well, I wanted to make the top three in Blackpool, British. you know, in the adult category, on the 35, you know, which is kind of like the big, the big category.

That's like this is like the Super Bowl of Dan. Okay, this is the main stage. Yeah. And did you get close to that at any point? Yeah, I did. I was in the top three in my last, you know, last time competing in Blackpool, yeah. But I was already checked out. And part of that, again, this being a business podcast and finance and all that stuff,

you know, I turned 25, which was around the time my brother went on the show. I was one of the best couples in the world, you know, and I did not, I wasn't making any money. You know, I was like, yo, this is dope. But, you know, I'm too old for this passion project. Like, what's the difference, you know, hobby and a profession? It's a paycheck, you know. Yeah, and I hate to say because money isn't the pillar of the passion, but the passion got to get compensated, right? I want to buy my mom a gift.

You know, I want to like, because again, dance for a long time was a vehicle out of the hood, out of, you know, a financially challenging situation, the ability to give back to my parents. You know, I had to be successful regardless of whether it was in dance or music or start my own business or do whatever I have to do. You know, dance just kind of took off and I was like, I love this. Yeah. But at 25, I made a decision that I'm like, there's an opportunity for me to. be on a stage in front of millions of people and be compensated and, you know, it's not like, don't get me wrong, the answer to the Starz Bros are not like, you know, it's raining money

on them, especially in those seasons. No, not even close. Not even close to television sitcom money like that at all. But relative to the dancer, the average dancer, it was really good. When you come in top three and one of, and what is it called one more time, the black, The British Open. Blackpool. It's in Blackpool, England. Okay. So Blackpool, England, the British Open. You come in top three, which is like the one of the 1050 pounds. You knew the question before I asked it. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, I just spent $5,000 on my partner's dress. We as a couple. Because as a couple, we're a team, you know.

And you get $250.00, $400, $250.000. And still to this day, 2022. It's still like that. Yes. I probably say yes. How? The entry fee is like 45 pounds. or 80 pounds. How do you justify? I mean, like, how does... Well, you build credibility. Okay. It's like internship forever.

It's the internship that doesn't end. Yeah, it's like, because you build, you know, you get the result. Now I'm top three in the world and now dance studios around the world invite me to come teach. And so, you know, I sacrificed my entire life to be an elite, you know, to be elite at a craft. You know, I put in not 10,000 hours. I put 30,000 hours as a dancer. not to teach dance, to make a living. You know what I'm saying?

I love teaching dance. Sure. But I love dancing first, you know, and LeBron James didn't pursue basketball to one day coach basketball. Or to train. Because when you said LeBron, the first person I was thinking about, I was like Wayne Gretzky, right? Wayne Gretzky didn't become the top first person to start, like, training, you know,

kids and athletes. He became the first to be the best in the world. Right, right. And you could do both. And I love doing both. Don't get me wrong. I love teaching. I mean, it's such a vehicle for me to, I mean, truly use my gifts in a way.

But, you know, outside of that, I, it's hard for somebody to pursue something that doesn't, you know, that then they have to go and work. That's what I'm saying. And dance lessons are like, you're on your feet in dance shoes for an hour. It's labor. Like, that's tough. Yeah, manual labor, really. You know, it's beautiful labor. Yeah.

But I can't do this for 40 years. That's hard. That's tough. That's tough. So your brother, season. one decline, season two almost declined then goes on. You go on in 2011 and you already talked about this balancing act of making the decision. At any point did you decline before you had made the decision to go in 2011 or the first time

they came to you? Yeah. No, no, no. Well, we had conversation. I came out here. Now I'm building relationships with production and people and, you know, and so there's dialogue. And they're like, so, you know, when are you going to join us type of conversation? I'm like just, I need a couple more years, you know?

Yeah. And so then I made that decision and it was, you know, like I said, I'm really grateful. I reached out and I said, I would love to be a part if you'd have me. I'm ready, you know, in a way. Did the LeBron sit down? I want to take my talents to Hollywood. Bring me to L.A.? All right.

You decide to do it in 2011. Since then, we fast forward as 2023. Have ever you in this cycle of being on Dance with the Stars thought about maybe doing something else or going back to your competing days? Has there been no looking back since you took this career option? I mean, so I had the same perspective. Like, if I don't like it, I'm going to be out. You know, I could always come back.

I'm still at an age where I could come back to competing at a high level. But yeah, I joined the show and I had so much bravado. I'm like, oh, man, I'm on top of my game right now. I'm going to come in and, like, destroy all of these guys. Because, you know, they've been dancing on television shows. It's not the same. You know, we're training, like, athletes every day. We're hungry. We're starving. We're not rich. We're not living in sunny California.

You know, that's the grind that sometimes you need. You need to go through that. So I came through so ready and I got eliminated second. I probably should have been eliminated first. I was terrible. Who was your partner first? Her name is Elizabethan Conales. Okay. Yeah. She was a model, Italian lady. I mean, it wasn't her. I mean, I just was a rook, you know. And it was a great ego check.

It was so important for me. And I'm glad that I had that kind of experience as a competitor and also as a student. I wasn't too proud to be like, okay, okay, let me just figure this out. And that first season, I danced all the extra dances. I was like, put me in anything, everything, you know. And I watched other pros on the show, Derek, Mark, Max, you know, everybody on the show. And I took notes, you know, and I'm like, okay, this works. okay listen I gotta broaden my range right I can't just be an elite ballroom dancer on this

show I gotta I gotta understand what musical theater is I wanna I need to understand like what contemporary and hip hop commercial appeal is you know what is it gonna because I'm also now campaigning for votes for the first time oh yeah you know I gotta I gotta say the right thing or make sure I don't say the wrong thing but at the same time I got to be authentic you know and so all of these things now I'm learning that there's never like a sit down with a my parents have no experience in this. I don't, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm learning through my brother's experience in this. But yeah, for the first time, I'm, I'm competing in a different space and I'm using those same tools that I've done my entire life in this sphere. And, you know,

here I am. One of the things I think about when I look at, like, the career and the professional dancers over the dancing with the stars is that, yes, my perception, which is probably wrong, Yes, you guys have a ton of impact of working on that craft and the choreography, in the art behind it. That's huge. But also there's some uncontrollables. Like I think about who you get partnered with. Oh, yeah. Like, are they capable to what you can do?

How much of it do you think is really controllable by the professional dancer and all the things that you worked on to help your craft? You know, it's like a race and some get a bike, some get a horse, some get a, you know, you know, a unicycle. Some get a Ferrari. And you're like, damn, we're all in the same race. Yeah. You know, so then you got to put some lights on this whole, you know, you got to dress it up. And as a pro, you try to, you know, there are many different ways to give yourself a fighting chance.

I look at every season. I have that, you know, delusional optimism with any partner. I love that. You're the best partner. And I don't want any other partner this season because you're my partner. That's the type of energy I have to all my partners, regardless of whether I'm delusional and we're getting eliminated fifth or we're going all the way. I approach every season and every partnership that way.

I think that lesson right there, though, it doesn't matter what your career is or what you're doing. That word, delusional optimism is really important because in a world like today where everyone just complains and whines about their circumstance or their boss or maybe their colleague, you're in that situation. Those are the cards you're dealt. Once you're dealt those cards, stop complaining and have delusional optimism.

That is a huge, huge piece of advice. I mean, some people call it faith. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I like to call it delusional optimism. I love it. We had, I'm almost certain this wasn't the case with you at all, but we had Lindsay Arnold on. She did talk a little bit about how when she was brought on,

she was brought on so early that she actually got promoted to head dancer, and then she got demoted. And she took like the background dancer. Has, any, Anything like that ever happened in your career with Dancing with the Stars where there's been a shift or a potential demotion or a movement that you're like, it's made a big impact on the professional side? I mean, yeah, recently, like, yeah, I joined the show and then I had a couple of seasons, you know.

Back then it was two seasons a year. So there were, you know, there was a few seasons that were rough, the first two. Third season, I made the final. You know, fourth season, I made the final. Then I meant semi quarter than final one final one one semi final you know like I was on a wrong and then the last four years I Like this last season was the first time I made the semifinals in Five years. Wow Yeah something like that interesting you know we went to one season a year

You know then yeah, so That was a moment where I had to be like oh, okay cool like the you know I felt like I had a great run. The show's been really great to me. And, you know, listen, these are the cars I'm dealt. Let's go. Cool. Then another season, these are the cool. Then it's like a third season. Then obviously I'm also looking at me and where I'm dropping the ball. You know, how can I improve? Maybe I'm, you know, but you've seen the show. You've done, you know, you kind of through Caitlin, you've done the show. Yeah. You can see that, you know, who's going where. You

kind of feel it. Usually when the cards are dealt, I feel like after one week, you have a pretty good idea. Oh, okay. Yeah. Cool. And it just, those, you know, I just kept getting four sevens, four seven, four seven, you know. But I'm like, I, we could make it straight out of this. Sure. You know? And I didn't for four years. And so this last season, man, in those four years, was a lot of growth. Did I take a step back that they demote me? No, but in my life, were a lot of demotions in my life that maybe didn't reveal themselves, you know, in public. But personal troubles, you know, other business challenges. We have 14 dance studios during the pandemic.

We were looking at just like every other brick and mortar business owner. Like we're looking at 20 years of life of my father's effort, of hundreds of people that worked for this company, my friends who have poured their, you know, life into this company. you know, it potentially can go away. So the pandemic was a huge personal challenge and that was kind of like in the middle of a lot of growth that I did in my life.

And so now having the season that I just had with Gabby, my appreciate like, you know, chills because now my ability to appreciate my craft, my ability to appreciate my opportunity, this job, my other opportunities, this podcast, everything I do now has a very post-COVID kind of very different perspective. on it. Like, I'm grateful that I'm healthy enough to still perform on the level that I'm performing.

So, yeah. Do you, I think one of the challenges you just faced that you talked about for four years is like being dealt a tough card, a tough hand. People at work, I think, that are listening to this, they get dealt those tough hands. And there's subjectivity that goes into their success, not objective output. And then they have to do a couple things like you did. You have to kind of self-reflect. You have to adjust. You have to make changes. But one of the things you have to do, in my opinion, is I think you have to actually vocalize, hey, boss, I don't think you're giving me a fair shot. You're not sending me to the right deals.

You're not interested. What can you help me out? Did you have to do anything like that where you had to go have conversations with people to say, is there something I could do better? Was there anything that you did through that, that you could give people advice back home to do if they feel like they're stuck like you felt you were for four years? Yeah. Yeah, I did.

You know, there's a difference between like complaining or, being bitter and just having a conversation and just having transparency with somebody that you love working with for a long time you know whether he's your boss or your peer or whatever you you have been both collaborating in the same space for a while have a conversation and say I feel like you know my approach was this wasn't you're not giving me this you're not giving me that my approach was like yo let me you you're giving me so many things you know you you bring me on the show

you compensate me really well, pull me in. You know, let me, let me serve this project. I feel like I could do more for this company, for this project, for this, you know, show, for whatever. And I just want to do that. That's it. I think I can't, you know? And I can't do it if you don't kind of allow me the space or the opportunity to do so. I would love for you to meet me in the middle somehow.

And do you think like that type of delivery and comment? Terry definitely helped out. I think so. That's awesome. Because there's also a track record. Like I don't have those conversations. Yeah. Unless I feel it genuinely.

And then we do. And they've always met me in the middle. And then I feel a very strong responsibility to deliver. And now they have somebody that will look at me. You know what I'm saying? A year ago, I was kind of, I was heartbroken with my experience on the show. not because of the show, but just my experience has been a long time since I felt, like I said, the success that I felt this season.

Yeah. You know, and then a year later, I couldn't champion the show more. Interesting. You know, and all that is was a conversation that we had, and it wasn't a complaint, it wasn't anything. It was just people coming together and saying, like, how can I be better for this project? Because I want to be, you know. That's pretty, I think stepping into conflict, too, right? Like you felt, because there's articles out there, whether it's true or not,

like a year ago or whatever, you were thinking about leaving the show. And just whatever that is, true or false, I think the idea here is step into conflict. Like talk about these things that you're back there. Because look at the change in 12 months. Biggest champion, you're not leaving the show. You crushed it. You're back at it. Well, yeah.

And also it's like that's a headline that has this kind of negative connotation. Sometimes, you know, the show has nothing to do with how I feel. You know, that's the other things. Like, we're very quick, you know, we're dealt certain cars and then we're very quick to point fingers and find like why why did I get these cars because of this person yeah it's nobody's full you know but but i'm i'm allowed to be disappointed with my situation without having to like pinpoint exactly who's responsible maybe it's just the situation i just got to grind it out yeah i love that all right negotiation tips you start with the show 2011 22 your value increases with the show there's more

rise on the show, what strategies do you negotiate or do you go through to negotiate for yourself to be compensated better? I look at, obviously, like, I look at the market value, you know, like, I'm a big fan of sports. Yeah. You know, I see salaries rise and I'm like, bam. It's not like they're hitting the ball harder. The truth is that just more people are watching them hit the ball.

Yep. You know, and so, like, it's a per eyeball basis, so to speak, you know? Then I also obviously look at the value that I bring and what I want to bring. I know what I bring. Besides what you see on TV, I know what kind of peer and teammate I am, regardless of what project. If you and I go into a podcast together, I know that I want to, you know, you'll get my undivided commitment.

Yeah. And for that, I would love, I would feel happy with that. I wouldn't even think about it for X, Y, Z, you know. but it's really like I try not to you know how much you see oh okay I want that do you talk to the other dancers about what you guys make I don't you know I don't you know I like I said because we I grew up in a in a business environment with the dance studios I kind of have certain ethical boundaries in terms of conversation like even with the show like I have really dear relationships with a lot of people who are in

a position of authority over me Yeah. I try to keep a very professional distance. You know, I don't abuse that love, you know, to, I know how to divide and what. And I think that also goes a long way. Totally. But, yeah, I forgot what the question was. It was about just like establishing your, you're negotiating for you.

I'm not delusional, you know. I'm not trying to, everything that I do, I'm not someone's employee and I'm never somebody's boss. You know, we are two people on a team that have two different roles. Okay. Interesting. Well, I think that's, I think the idea of understanding your value and making sure that you're expressing it the right way with your employer, whoever it is, professionally, right, is huge.

You've got to be an advocate for yourself. And also, you've got to prove yourself first. Yes. With all due respect, you know, for free sometimes. Oh, interesting. Or for less. Yeah, yeah. You know, and if you have, cool.

You know, like we have a project right now. with my brother that we're kind of developing. And, you know, budgets and all of that, it's important to think about. You know, but I'm more interested in having equity in, and in the future of this project rather than being compensated for, like, you know, right now. And, you know, it's a conversation. Why is that? Why would you like equity over compensation?

I agree with that strategy. Because it has more longevity and it becomes a passive income, you know, rather than, like, my labor is what my labor costs. and I want to get compensated for that. And that's it. Sometimes it just depends on the scenario. It also depends on the project. If I believe in the future of the project,

I'm willing to work for free. I like that. Okay. Another thing I wanted to ask you about is in people's workplace, they'll be competitors that will try and recruit them over. There are other shows out there.

So you think you can dance. There's a lot of different competitive dancing shows. Have you ever thought about taking a career shift into like a different show? I mean, I think, therefore I am. You know? That's fair. I think all the time.

But I've never even been close to wanting to, you know, it's like I'm still enjoying the NBA. I wouldn't want to, you know. Go to the new league. Yeah. Or the European League. Or the European League. You know, and it's very competitive. And, you know, living in Barcelona is probably very sexy.

Yeah. But, you know, I love where I'm at. And as long as I can continue to serve the project at the highest level, you know, I'd love to be a part of the show. Very cool. I'm a big numbers guy. I'm fascinated. But the other thing is that, you know, and you said these other shows, like, so you think you can dance, competitive shows. They're not, I don't look at them as competitive shows.

Okay. You know, the same way, I don't look at myself as, you know, just a dancer on Dancing with the Stars. You know, I answered to the space of dance, you know, and Dancing with the Stars is a big part of that. But my studios are a big part of that. So you think you could dance is a big part of that as well as far as fostering a lot. a lot of new talent, a lot of which ended up on dancing with the stars. Artem, Alan, Jenna Johnson, my wife, Lindsay Arnold, they all started from so you think you could dance.

I think things can coexist, you know, the more companies, the better, the more shows, the better. That's a good point. You know, a lot of times people think that dancers on the show have rivalries or animosity. You know, I want to see Derek succeed. I want to see, not just because we're friends, but because as an incredible artist, and someone that came from this project and is a ballroom dancer and identifies as someone from our field. I want to see him succeed because if he succeeds, then the world is looking at, oh, okay, I'm interested in that.

Yeah, he succeeds the art of dance and the profession of dance. So you think you can dance succeeds. It's not a competition. It's good for the athleticism and the art and the beauty of dance. Okay, I think that's a really good perspective. One thing I wanted to ask about is I'm a big ratings guy. I love the bachelor's on whatever. I'll always go in.

Like, what are the ratings? What are the ratings? I was blown away at the fact that they went Disney Plus only this season. And I was thinking just because of the demographic, right? It's a higher age demographic that watches Dancing with the Stars. I think I read it was like 55% or no, 65% of people over 55 watch Dancing with the Stars. But the percentage of that group that's actually subscribed to Disney Plus is like less than 20%. For anybody listening, I will definitely fact check this because I have the stat at home and I'll put it in the recap.

That said, did you have any thoughts on Disney Plus only and do you know anything about like if it worked or didn't work? Oh, I, you know, it's all hearsay. I didn't have direct conversation with whoever is in charge at Disney Plus. Yeah. But yeah, I think we paid off on their investment. It worked. Yeah. It worked.

That's what I had heard. Yeah. Yeah, we, and I think it worked beyond even expectation. I think we've not just doubled expectation. I think it was like really good. That's what I had heard, that the Disney Plus move ended up exceeding every expectation that was put in place. Yeah.

Interesting. Did that impact social media, obviously, since you get on the show, changes a lot. And it helped your career. I'm sure it's helped monetization. Clearly it helps your influence. And it impacts your overall position in the art of dance. Did social media, like following it all, change this season being on dancing on Disney Plus only as opposed to network TV? Or did you not see much change?

I didn't feel it on social media. Gotcha. No. What I felt was, I mean, it's all in the same family. So nothing's going to be taken part. We went from ABC to Disney. Sure. You know, it's all Disney.

But I definitely felt more relative, you know. Like we had billboards again. You know, I haven't seen a Dancing with the Stars billboard in this town like for 10 years. Interesting. There was a billboard, a few. You know, the marketing kind of budget, you could feel expanded. The quality, you know, there was more effort in pushing the show. And it really, I mean, there was a few small changes this season that paid huge dividends

and created huge ripple effects throughout the show, which I think translated in the lens and therefore translated in the numbers. Big numbers guy. So I started the podcast, a number I've never heard about dancing with the stars. No, you already said it. I'm not coming at you too hard here. I know, I know there's contractual things you can't talk about, so I won't push in those directions. But you had said budget, $500,000 for the performance. I've never heard that. You said earlier on the same. Is that how much you're telling me for one of your dances, $500,000? Absolute ridiculous estimate. I have no idea. It might be $100,000. But even 100,000.

I don't think, like, like, you'd be surprised, you know, confetti, just the action of that confetti. Like the, you know, sometimes you dance at a possible they have the fire things. But even the CO2s, they call them. Like that could be 10 grand. And they got to block that the day before. And they got to, you know, do it a couple of times. So, yeah. I mean, it's not, I don't think I'm that far off when you think about everything that goes into.

just one performance. We also, Caitlin and I watching, said we thought the production value this season was greater than it's been on quite some time. As a pro, did you feel that too? I felt like it, but to be fair, you know, Caitlin did it in 2020, which is really unfortunate because it was a COVID season and it was very limited. The fact that it was even happening was a huge accomplishment. Out of context, you know, like that's important to mention. There was no crowd in the room, which is a huge reason why you probably felt like, wow, this production feels so much bigger. Well, there was 300 people in the room.

Yeah. You know, that makes a difference, I think. Yeah. And then there was no commercials, which was a huge obstacle for the hands, the stage management. You know, so they're the real, their, you know, their effort was crazy this season. Because usually the commercial allows the production to breathe for a second, regroup. Here they had to be really creative. But it kept the show flow.

I mean, I thought that this season was one of the best seasons out of the 18 seasons that I've been on the show. Interesting. Yeah, it was absolutely incredible to watch from afar. I mean, absolutely impressive. When you look at Dance With the Stars, all your business ventures, like Dance With Me Studios, Social Media, which of those in an annual basis is like creating the biggest business opportunity for Val when it comes. of dollars. They all are part of this little, little universe that I have, you know, and they all compliment each other. My presence on Dancing with the Stars isn't the nucleus of the Dance

with Me studio business, but it's a huge marketing opportunity, it's a huge branding, you know, push and credibility that I bring to the studios by being on Dancing with the Stars. Currently, consistently, you know, it's still a big deal. But those studios provide an opportunity to host events and have incredible growth potential and the opportunity to potentially franchise and expand and grow. And then, yeah, I mean, all of these are vehicles that complement one another. I try to have several streams. A revenue covenant.

Do you have it as an entrepreneur because you are an entrepreneur and you have all these other moving parts. Do you have any other businesses that you're working on or forecasting down the road to generate another stream? I have a dance app that I'm a partner in, Dancing Co., which is online dance lessons as well. So during COVID, we kind of all pivoted and got excited about that platform. So it's an app, which is awesome. We have over 200 plus classes. Cool. But yeah, I like to develop live performances and live experiences.

And I guess I'm looking forward towards expanding that into an experience. experience that includes, you know, potentially food and liquor and more of an immersive kind of project that lives with me and that lives without me. And, you know, I like to develop in that space. Very cool. That could be awesome. When you do fundraising for that, you let us know. We'll put it out there. See if there's any investors out there. All right, we got to wrap up. We got to get your trading secret. Val, it's amazing kind of where you've gone and where you've come from. The trading secrets actually you get to pick. You don't even get drilled. So it's got to be a trading secret. Someone can learn from you about money management. It could be career navigation. It could be just

like life inspiration, something that they can't get anywhere, but hear it directly from Val and your experiences. So the money mafia, they love the trading secrets, what you leave us with. What type of trading secret could you give our listeners? I mean, in 2022, with the amount of trading secrets that is out there, that is a, that's That's a tough ass. Yeah. It's crazy, you know, this environment. It challenges your confidence and challenges, you know, your belief in yourself, you know.

Like sitting here, I don't feel, you know, super comfortable with offering, you know, these, you know, and claiming it as the secret that you can only get from me, you know. My secret is I don't take, I don't take things personally. especially in the business space you know especially in when it comes to to money i know it's hard because a lot of times you build relationships and effort is being exhausted you really sacrifice in your life some of these partnerships and some of these ventures but you know soak in it for a minute and then keep it moving i like that keep it moving my chairs just so you guys know before we started i have a trading secret from veil that i took and we you had talked a little bit about

just the relationship management of your partner and that like it's like an arranged marriage and that you guys are like you had discussions like therapy like almost like it was therapy where you said hey these are things that are like lines in the sand for me don't do this don't do this don't do this please do this i'll do this you tell me your feelings yeah and as a result of that it builds chemistry connection that allows you to work better i think people should back home listening this should think about do you have those conversations with like your boss your colleagues even in your relationship because i think when you are in a position where you're in your business partners if you're not having those conversations, it's going to impact everything. It's going to impact

the perception of people. It's going to impact your performance. It's going to impact how you move as a team. And just hearing the fact that you do that every single season with your partner, that's my trading secret. Like it doesn't matter, relationship, business partner, colleague, boss, you have to have those type of in-depth conversations with these people so that you could be the best team. Yeah. That's my trading secret. Thanks, man. And, you know, maybe that's it. You have a better perspective, you know, kind of seeing it from the side. But really, yeah, that is the secret. You know, I don't know any secrets, but I will give you my undivided, unconditional, you know, effort and time, you are my priority. And I literally say that to them, you know, and all I want

is you to reciprocate that. That's it for three months. And then you can do whatever you want, and I'll do it. And, you know, we can maintain our friendship, whatever. But we'll reconvene then. Yeah. Let's do this. Because you have potential and I, you know, we can do this. While we're here, let's go all right. Yeah. Let's be the best team.

And that's why I love teaching. I love preaching. You know, I love camaraderie. I love working together. I love collaborating. I love giving people credit. You know, in this town especially, it's like such a big deal to credit somebody. It's like this controversy.

Like, I don't see why I can't credit everybody because sharing is the wealth. You know, the ability, I want to make a lot of money. because I want to have a lot of money, but because I want to be able to share a lot of money with people and with, you know, causes and things like that. You know? That's another one. Sharing is the wealth. You said you didn't have a trading secret.

We just pulled four or five out. All right, Val, dance with me studios, your app, your social media, everything you have going on. People want to learn more about it. Where can they find that stuff? Valentin at Instagram.com. All right. It's not Instagram. No.

On Instagram. That was such a, like. Instagram. Like, what was that? It's like the Facebook. Oh my God. Damn, that's me. But yeah,

Valentin on Instagram. Why the hell? Does the dancing pro with 18 million trophies not have a TikTok? I do. I do. Valor Valenti. Oh, it's not the same.

You don't have the same handle. No. I never took care of that. Yeah. And that's why when you kept saying social media business, I'm like, I'm the worst on social media. I'm still living in like 2012 where this was like a,

a journal. Well, we talk about it often on this show, social media monetization. So I'm going to challenge you. Get more active because you can make a whole lot of damn money. Let's go. And then we'll bring some deals to you. How about that? Perfect. Val, thank you so much for being on this episode of Trading Secrets. Thank you.