Trading Secrets - 37: The Prince of Bachelor in Paradise closes over $400 Million in Real Estate deals!

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

In this episode of Trading Secrets, Jason sits down with “Top Power Broker” and The Bachelor in Paradise Prince, Adam Gottschalk. They discuss Adam’s incredible career track record, selling more than $400 million in commercial real estate.  He provides specific tips, tricks, and insights into investing and selling residential and commercial real estate.  From work to reality television, to Raven’s new Real Estate venture, Adam discusses it all. He even gets deep and breaks down how Paradise was actually one of the best things he could have done for his mental health. It’s another episode you can’t afford to miss.  For All Access Content - join our networking group for less than 30 cents a day! Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. All of you Bachelor fans out there are going to be excited about this episode. This week's guest is none other than Adam Gottshawk. He was a favorite on Rachel's season in 2017, won the hearts of America, when he found Raven, the love of his life on Bachelor in Paradise the same year. While you might know about his personal life through the lens of reality TV, you might be less familiar with his professional career as a successful real estate investor and commercial real estate broker.

In college, he studied real estate development and business management, which paid off big time as he has earned, actually named Top Power Broker in Dallas Magazine's CEO edition for many years. I actually read all the years that you were named it. I'm like, I'm not going to list off every year. Let's just say it's a whole hell of a lot. He has a lot of valuable insight to share with us about the industry and how potentially you can get in this money-making machine, the real estate investing side, residential and commercial as a side hustle or full-time. AG, thank you so much for being here today, man. We appreciate it. Hey, T, it's my pleasure. I know we've talked about it before, but this has been long overdue, so I'm really happy we've finally linked up and doing this

together. Long, long overdue. In the background, there's tons of DMs and text messages between Adam and I talk in business, talking shops, seeing what he's up to. Not even too long ago, he called me the other day and he like patched me into a call. He's like, man, you got to check this deal out. So we talk often, and it's awesome that you can be on trading secrets to talk about this industry because commercial, we've had some awesome power luxury real estate brokers from like million dollar listing in California, New York. You are our first commercial real estate broker. It's a damn honor. I'm glad to be here because the one thing I've been really learning following you over the last year and a half, two years on restart, reset has really been

this whole financial literacy, just train ride that everyone's going along. So I'm more excited to kind of share my opinion and my values that I kind of bring to the table. But more or less, we're just educating people where it's not rocket science. It's just learning about it early enough and how do you get in and how do you take it from there, you know? So if I want to go find a nice piece of real estate that I think is in a good location, what are things that you're doing on a checkbox basis that's allowing you to say in your brain, that's a good opportunity. It's a great question. It's a very loaded question too because everyone says like, you know, like, I can't find an opportunity that everything's outpriced. But you also have to understand

that like there are properties and opportunities that are, they are out there. They exist. So whether that's you inquiring directly to a property owner or you constantly combing through a zillow or redfin there are there are free tools out there that allow people the opportunity to find these gems and so again these aren't tools that you necessarily need to pay for you may have a friend who's a real estate agent that may find something that hits MLS before it hits you know the masses and for those who don't understand what MLS is that's the what's it called multi-listing services right my right or wrong I don't I've never used MLS but it's It's basically the internal database that all residential realtors use to sort through properties

where, Jason, you wanted to go find a house that was a four-bedroom, four-bath that was, I don't know, in North Nashville. This is where you plug it into here and they can see everything on a screen in one place. Right, exactly. All right. I appreciate you breaking that all down. It's going to be very helpful. So you refinance, you're looking for your next project, and what play did you make?

So I found this property, and what I did is, and this is me just in general, but I like going directly to the listing. If you're not working specifically with an agent, I love going directly to a listing agent because it cuts out the buyer, your agent, the selling agent, the seller. You cut out one person that's in that mix, right? So that way, not only is the listing agent a little more incentivized and maybe work the deal, even though his fiduciary duties to the seller itself,

but also you alleviate a lot of communication that has to do with your agent and their agent. So I feel like it's just, it's a little more synergistic to work directly with an agent. So I was driving down the street. And again, I owned property very close by. So I understood the fundamentals of where I was living. And I saw a deal and I called the agent that had the sign or it said coming soon. So I called the agent on it. Hey, you know, I own a deal right down the street from you.

I have some interest in this property. I'd like to take a look at it and or, you know, submit an offer and get some more info on it. So that's kind of where that process started. So I found that deal. And I learned a lot from this. one, Jason, because this was a classic case of, I think I overbuilt for the neighborhood that was there. And I wanted to make it nice and I had to keep hold, pull myself back at him. You're not living in there. You're not living in there. But I think I overbuilt it. And long story short,

I ended up selling the house after commissions and closing costs for $2,000 more than what I paid for it. That's the name of the game though, right? Like everyone talks about their wins, but not many people talk about their losses. And like, that's a tough one. When you put all that time and effort and it's $2,000 more. I do want to talk about another area you just hit on that is absolutely really important for anyone looking out there for side hustle or you're looking for a property. You're trying to get rental income from cash flow from a property. One thing Adam just talked about was direct to listing agent. So Adam, you could touch a little bit more on this. You can slice and dice it so many different ways. It's very customary though. The seller 99% of the time pays the

full commit the full six percent commission and then basically the selling and buyers agents both split that so it's not like you as a buyer paying you you're buying you're buying an agent you know three percent more than what you you should be paying but if you can try to you know eliminate that but there also are a lot of agents out there that provide a lot of value you know representing you as a buyer right so you know if you're busy all day day in and day out you can't sit in front of a computer and wait for the perfect deal to come across because you're making money to put a down payment down for the property. So there's value that other buying agents can bring to the table that are very, very skilled and great at what they do too. Yeah, I think when you're, when this is a side hustle thing,

I think you're working full time and you have other other obligations, I think using an agent is like almost, I don't want to say mandatory, but it's a big part of the business because you're going to get deals that might not even be listed off the table. If this is something you're doing full time, I think going direct and making sure that you're pinching every penny to get the best deal, it's huge. But so you talked about, you're on two sides of the equation here because you're a residential retail investor, investing in these residential properties to provide cash flow. But then you go on the other side of the coin, you become a commercial real estate broker. Tell me about what it's like to become a broker, what the pay structure is, and how you

started off in that world. Yeah, no, it's a great question. So after I moved back to L.A., I just kind of got my feet under myself. I wanted to figure out what I wanted to do. My younger brother was playing football in Dallas at SMU. And so what I wanted to do is I just didn't know what I wanted to do. I just felt L.A. at the time when I moved back home after college, I just, L.A. wasn't the same as what it was like when I was growing up there.

And so I wanted to get out. I wanted to try something new. I didn't have a girlfriend, wife, or kids. So I said, screw it. I'm going to visit my brother a couple times. I enjoy Dallas to me, I tell everyone it's like L.A. But with no beach, has everything you would want here. And if you want to go to a beach, you could fly an hour and a half to Cancun or Tulum.

And guess what? You have one of the best beaches in the world. And so I moved here and I immediately got into commercial. It's kind of what I wanted to do. It was just that was my mindset, really. And what I started doing when I was here is I started doing a lot of work in smaller secondary tertiary markets. So I spent my first year and a half just traveling the whole state of Texas. I went to the really small markets like Amarillo, Lubbock, El Paso, Brownsville, Tyler, Texarkana.

You know, you go to all over these little small markets where the big markets, so Dallas, Fort Worth, San Antonio, Austin were very saturated with a lot of competition. I wanted to go into a market where I knew I could thrive really well and I could just be a sponge. I need to soak it up. And so I would drive to these markets. I'd see I drive by, see a property, take a pick. of it and I have a little notepad where I'd write down, you know, what's the property address? You know, if it was like a fast food restaurant, was it packed? Or was it like a Walgreens that had cars packed in? I'd make little notes and I'd go back to the database and I'd input it

in our database, go to the county appraiser's office. You can find out who owns it and I'd make notes about it, add the person, you know, who was associated with it. And I'd find out like just pertinent information. You're kind of playing like an FBI, you know, private investigator here. you're finding out, sometimes you find out how much loan the person got on the property, when did they buy it, and then you're connecting dots. You're just kind of going all over the map. So that happened over the course of about a year and a half, two years, and then I started to get traction in these markets.

I started to get listings. You can make good money representing buyers, but if you have product in the market as a listing agent, the chances of getting paid, one, are higher. And two, you have more control over a deal because if I just represent a buyer and the deal falls apart, you're not getting paid. But if I'm representing a seller, and whether I double end a deal or someone brings a buyer, you know you're getting something on the deal, right? And so that's what kind of like started to pick up. And as our team started this mold and shift, you know, from Marcus and Milichap, we left Marcus and that's where we created strive. And we're

very like boutique, but dominant firm that's here in Texas. And so we have about 16 agents that work here now that cover really the whole state of Texas. Me and my team, we focus on like Dallas Fort Worth, but we have a team of guys who handle, you know, the Austin, San Antonio, Houston, and then all of the smaller markets that surround Texas. And we're extremely fortunate to be in this state that's doing very well with the development and everything that's going on to in our market. That's really cool. I want to get into your group leaving from Marcus and starting Shrive. Before I do so, if someone wants to get into commercial real estate, my understanding of it, when you start in the industry, the upside is massive. You kill the elephant. You eat the elephant.

But unlike most jobs, you're not going to start off with this glamorous, gorgeous base salary. What are the benefits in base salary and upside look like? If someone is listening to you, Adam, and they're like, I want to be a commercial real estate broker. What can they expect in their first year to three years generally? And I know that's a tough question because we're talking about anywhere in the United States. But high level, if you're giving a seminar on commercial real estate 101 getting into it, what does it look like? Yeah. There are very few firms that will give you a size.

If they do, usually what happens, it's kind of like, it's more of like a loan. Yeah, it's kind of like alone, but it's, it's forgivable. And then your splits will kind of change based off that. But typically, it takes about six months in our business to really get your training, understand it, and really get kind of your first listing and or do your first transaction. That average takes about six months. And then you have to understand that there's more moving parts to this business than residential because there's more hoops that lenders need to check off the boxes on when it comes

to buying an investment property versus a homestead. And so therefore, what you do today is a reflection how you get paid 60 to 90 days from now. So a deal can take as short as, I mean, I've closed a deal as fast as two weeks, but it can also be three months before you close a deal. And a lot of it is you're going to have to have some money saved up or you take a really small draw from a firm. And that's enough to really like basically put a roof over your head and eat ramen noodles for four months. And then after that, you should have enough traction. And it's really, it's, it's kind of the push behind your back to get you, you know, up and off and going. But a lot of it has to do with, I think, just persistence, grit. It takes an immense amount of hustle and just being able to

know, all right, I'm investing in the long term. This is what I'm going to do. And this is how I'm do it. Yeah, I mean, grit is such a good one because I have one of my close buddies is a commercial real estate broker in Buffalo. So you really got to be grinding and gritting but it's not Dallas, Texas. But the way that he would know, like the relationships he built in the marketplace, he knows everything that's happening before it's happening because he knows all the players, the developers, the accountants, the attorneys, all the people that someone would have to contact and talk to before making a play into a commercial real estate, he's connected with all them, and he'll get the call and tell them to go call them. That's the grit of it.

What about this, A.G? You talked about the downside, the ramen noodles and tough cash flow. Upside. You sell a property. Suppose the property sells commercial real estate property. Let's say you're in Dallas. It's a beautiful warehouse. Whatever it might be, it sells for 10 million bucks. What is typical commission percentage on a property? It sells for like that amount. Sure. So in commercial and a lot of it's in residential to, the rule of thumb is really when it comes the commissions it's a sliding scale so usually and a lot of properties let's call it two million and under is really kind of at a six percent commission from two to two to three it's like five percent for the higher you go the smaller the percentages so by the time you get to 10 million

bucks it's probably probably going to get about two to maybe two and a half would be probably a a little above market fee for a deal that size. So let's call it $200,000, you know, just for a $10 million property. And depending on how your structure is, usually in commercial and residential, you usually have like a mentor, you know, teaches you the business or they call them a senior that you kind of work under. If it was a junior that was really working this deal, that $200,000 is your gross. And usually you split that 50-50 with your senior.

And then usually that's cut in half again through the house. And the reason why you split with the house is because they provide transaction coordinator, a financial analyst, that they give you the software to do your research and so on and so forth. There's overhead to all these things. So at the end of the day, what are you splitting? You're going from $200,000 to $100,000 to $100,000. Yes, you're pocketing about $50,000 from a transaction. Gross.

And a lot of people make this mistake their first year, but you need to put money away for taxes because it'll bite you in the butt if you don't. That is for sure. 1099 will get you. we've had people come on and tell some awful tax stories so that's a good call but one thing you talked about adam was the house taking the money so it sounds like what happened and i'm just putting it all together here but you guys had a group of brokers at your last firm that were kicking ass and taking names and said some of them must have said let's create our own shop and is that how strive

started yeah when we when we first started it that was like the i think the first progression and It's tough, Jason. I think I've heard you talk about this before, and I hate talking about this, but my biggest pet peeve is people associate in their job titles to themselves. Unfortunately, and I hate this a lot, is like, especially in real estate and businesses that are involved in sales, you see someone with the associate title and someone looks at it and a lot of people sometimes are like, let me talk to the partner. Let me talk to the big guy. Who's your boss, right? Of course.

I didn't like that. And the one thing we want to do was kind of creed. I guess I'm going to call it a title. What we'll call it title is just vice president when we first moved over. And then we started strive. We started that in 2000. I think it was 16 or 17. So it's been about five years now.

And just last year, the first, the two founding partners, Jason Bitterino and Jason Jennifer Pearson, I was lucky enough. And they approached me. And basically they promoted me to a partner, which is, you know, a big accolade that everyone wants to achieve because you're now part of the company, you're part of the bottom line number that this company can produce. And now rather than being it really for the monetary value, you're here for the ability to grow the company organically.

And we want to, we're in growth mode. We want to grow, grow, grow and create offices across the country at this point and give people opportunities and financial freedoms that they never really had before. And so as a partner, like so people out there might hear partner at a law firm, partner at CPA, partner now at commercial. real estate brokerage house. So for you, when you're a partner, that exactly means that you have ownership in the company and that there is a percentage of the bottom line that will go to you. Can you explain to people like what that title actually does carry in a company like this?

You hit the nail right on the head. When you are promoted or you are a partner or a partnership of a company, you have an equity portion within the company and you get a percentage of whatever the net profits are of that company. So as the company does better, you do better. And maybe as time goes on, we have the discussions of getting higher equity shares as a partner as you progress. But the first step is actually getting to that partnership level and then kind of growing from there. Gotcha. All right. Now, we have to make this transition because it is mandatory. But I'm looking at this career progression at Strive. You leave to go to Strive. Then you work your way up to be a partner. Were you at Strive when you left to go on, Bachelorette?

Yes. Yeah. Hold on. I'm trying to remember this. Okay. So that was 2017. So at the time, one of the partners and his wife, die hard bachelor thing, so die hard. And he was watching the show one season. He's like, Adam, why aren't you on the show? There are a bunch of just weird guys. He's like, you're a good dude. Like, you need to go on the show. He's like, there's no reason you can't go on there.

And I had a friend of mine who nominated me through, I knew through college. And so I got nominated. I ended up getting a call from the producers. And one of my biggest concerns going on the show was, man, what am I going to do to my deal flow? Because A, how am I going to explain this to my clients? Yeah. B, what am I going to do about my deal flow? And C, we have our phones taken away for if you go all the way to the end, it could be what, eight or nine weeks? Yeah. So I can't go without a phone for that long. A, B, C, Jason, always be closing. Always. And so I was lucky

enough, one of the partners, Jason, he's like, Adam, he's like, just go. I'll have, I'll tap into your email. I'll take care of everything that comes through the deal flow sheet. You just give me two weeks and you hand the baton off to me. I'll handle everything and you go and you hopefully find your wife. Just go. Wow. And I was like, you know what, man, this is an opportunity and you know that it's guys from your season. Same thing happens, right? You go on the show and then you kind of get this fatigue of, I don't want to work anymore. I don't want to do this. And those guys either leave or some firms, they take so much time, they take so much vacation time that they end up just quitting. And luckily I had a lot of support behind me.

So when I was on Rachel's season, I originally went on. And it wasn't until like week two, I finally had asked the producers. I'm like, hey, can I just like check my email please? This is why I make sure everything's okay. And so, uh, did they allow you to? Yeah. Bullshit. I tried so many times because, you know, I was corporate banking at that point.

They would not let me check it. I swear. And I was just a year later. I was like, I got to check my stuff. And they were like, no, man, sorry. I don't, I think, I don't know what it was. I think maybe I was just. so convincing about it. But once we left the mansion to start traveling, the group got a

little bit smaller at that point. But if there was an email that needed to get forwarded or if I replied, even a client was like, Adam, where are you, but trying to get a hold of you, you have to be, there's a producer looking over my shoulder to make sure I'm not like, hey, I'm on the bachelor's right. We're about to go to Geneva, Switzerland. Sure, sure. I'm like, this is a client who doesn't watch the show. Like, who cares? Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. That's so funny. So I had that and basically, you know, like, honestly, Jason, I tell, I tell raving this all the time, but like people that are involved in sales or people that are just workaholics, being on a Bachelorette and on Paradise was probably one of the best things for my mental health.

I probably could have ever done. And you're talking about cold turkey, your phone gets taken away. And every second, every day, you and I, we check our phones. We look at, you know, notifications. You're on it. But you have to because it's part of your job. in your business but when you have this thing taken away you're all of a sudden you're so engulfed into what's going on you know on the show and it allows you to kind of disconnect so i was thankful for that

but i was able to after the show was done you know felt weird checking my phone again and getting back into the mix but i was lucky enough to have you know great partner and great set of people just really support me and kind of just get back into the work mode and and uh raven and i tell everyone all the time the show's great it gives you the stage to fall in love on and that's great, but when the lights shut off, it's up to you or you take it from there, right? Oh, yeah. The Bachelorette doesn't give you or me, you know, hey, you know, thanks for being on the show. Here's $50,000 and go take your business to the next level. No. No, they don't get. And that's something I think they need to do is do, I think there needs to be a little bit more like training post show

because you step into this world and it could be a whirlwind and it could eat you up and chew you out and spit you up or it could do great things. Like it's all over the place. And when you got off Rachel's season, though, what was the gap in time? between finishing Rachel's season and having to go back on Paradise? Let's see. So I finished her in April. I know this because I literally got sent home on my birthday on April 19th. Yep.

That happened. So, and I would say, Paradise was, we also had that goofy season of Paradise that had the scandal. So, like, things got put on hold. What was that? So that had to be end of June. So two, three months. So when you went, because this is why I asked this,

because with me and the bank itself, I was gone for two to two and a half months, went back, I was approached to go in Paradise. I ended up not going for an array of reasons. But one of them was the bank said like, okay, this was great. We're happy you went. You're good. You're good. You're good.

You're done. Your company again was like, you're still good to go. No worries. You come back and we have a job for you. Yeah. Paradise was a little more convincing because one of the other partners that was here said, you can't go on Paradise. That's where all the rejects go.

And it's just, you know, that's, why do you? And I'm like, I don't know. Because I originally didn't want to go, Jason. I was like, you know what? I'm ready to just kind of get back to it because I had my fun. And like you said, it's like, hey, let's get back to reality, right? But a part of me was also like, well, again, because of the scandal and everything kind of got condensed, the main producer was like, hey, it's going to be about two weeks max if you go. So, you know, maybe just make the most of it.

And I'm like, okay, well, let's, let's roll the dice this time around. Let's just see if I can have some fun with it. And the one reason why I like the format of paradise is because instead of, you know, this is like on your season, instead of 25 guys and one girl, you got, you know, 10 guys, 15 girls, it's more of a matchmaker, not, hey, dog eat dog. Let's figure out where this goes. Yeah, a little bit more flowed to that for sure. I like it.

And so for that reason, I did it. And the one partner was like, dude, this is not where you need to go. And I'm like, just please just get my back for 10 more days and we'll figure it out. So you're, in both shows, you're pretty much guaranteed job security. Yeah, which was, again, that was very fortunate. That's huge. And so do you think when you look at like, okay, as we're talking business and now a little bit in Bachelor in Paradise and we moved to social media, when you look at other Paradise

shows, it's seen, and I haven't done the research, I've got to get Bachelor data on to tell me all this. But I would imagine that social media following grew at a much greater rate in other Paradise shows than the one that you were on because. of the scandal and the short in time period. Do you have the same feeling that that case is true? I agree with that. Raven and I have also talked about this.

This is my personal opinion. Sure. And people can agree with me. They can disagree. I think that Jojo's season was the first year that social media became very prominent on the show. And that's where the show, both Paradise and the season itself, Bachelor and Nick by all season, was the first season's world.

social media started to become very mainstream, started to pick up a lot of the content that was being delivered from the show. And I think right after our season scandal and there are a bunch of other factors just going to play, I think that maybe just the honeymoon phase of it just started to naturally kind of die off.

But I think those seasons, Paradise, everyone jokes around it about this all the time, but I think my first episode of Paradise, I had more air time on episode one that I did cumulative on my whole season. that attributes to, I would say, you know, the following of it. But, you know, the followers is just a byproduct of the show. I love what you have done with restart.

And you've kind of taken this leap of faith off your personal profile to really more or less just educate people. And I think like if you could just be a voice and I've seen videos that's on TikTok or Instagram and it just says, hey, if you have something you want to share, share it. because there might be someone out there who has a question about it or it's a life hack where someone didn't know that if you put baking soda and apple cider vinegar down a sink, it's going to make it smell good as new, right? 100%.

100%. You know, I mean, you put value out there and things that, like, you're passionate about that probably correlate to like your natural, whether it's your work experience or your education and you have no idea, like, what will come from it. So that's what we kind of did with restart. We built that. For you, madam, when you got off the show, was it, easier or harder to build back your commercial real estate portfolio?

Like, was that easy because you're recognizable and you're from the show? Or did that actually present challenges at work? A little bit of both. I would say the benefits were, there were some times where someone I would, we'd have our annual conference that's in Vegas. You might be familiar with it, but it's like a big real estate conference. It's in Vegas. And the season, the year I got off, had random people look at me.

And they're like, Adam. And I would look at them and they'd say, hey, have we? met before and I just played off. I'm like, oh, I think we met here last year. And they're like, no, I swear I've seen you before somewhere. And they probably saw the show with their wife or Drowford or whatever at some point. And I've never, the show, I never really used it as a platform to, you know, help differentiate myself from another, you know, agent or something. I'm very thankful for the opportunity. It led me to a wonderful woman and a wife. But I wouldn't say it's really, really benefited me.

Like, nobody's dad has called me up and said, hey, Adam, I saw you on the show. And, you know, I own a Walgreens. It's in uptown Dallas. And, you know, I want you to sell it. And I'll let you take a, you know, 10% fee because you're such a good looking guy or whatever. I felt that in corporate banking, too. So I was like living in two different worlds.

Like, I'd go to these, you know, CFO offices or whatever. And I'm like begging them to meet with me. And they would have, like, you know, they didn't know any about the show or anything. So, like, I'd, like, be begging. them to meet with me. And then I would leave the office and they'd call me like, hey, one of our people just said you were on some show. Like, they just saw you in the office. Like, what is this about? I don't know. I thought you were here for this. And it was like this wild world of living both lives just crazy. But yeah, and I think in our worlds,

it's in that type of environment. I think if you're selling residential real estate, it'd be a lot different than commercial real estate. Yeah. I'll totally, man. Totally different ballpark. Seguing the conversation like into that when you talk, about that stuff. One thing I tell a lot of people about is no matter what part of real estate you're going to be into, you need to be obsessed with what you do. What I mean by that is when I'm driving down a street and I'm looking at properties, I can look down the street and know, oh, I know this guy owns this. I know that person owns this. Oh, this lease has two years left on it. Oh, this time it's about the leave and that person's going to be screwed trying to backfill it

or whatever the case may be. The other thing you said, Adam, was just how that you're passionally like almost so upset. You're just, I don't want to say the word obsessed, but you're so passionate about it. I've never talked to one real estate broker, residential or commercial, that is successful what they do and that doesn't know the lay of their land. Who's over here? Who bought this? When they bought it at? What developers working on this property? Anyone who's successful does that. Now, it's a good segue, though, to talk about someone like Raven, who, based on what you've told me, I don't want to assume, she doesn't know the lay of the land. She doesn't know the developers in every area and who bought what at what dollar rate and what cap rate and what rent roll.

but she still was able to take cash flow from her main job and work and entrepreneurship to start that. Can you tell us a little bit about how someone that doesn't have all the knowledge was still able to own a commercial real estate property and how she uses that? Raven got to the point where I'm very thankful that she's an extreme frugal individual and she does not spend a ton of money on handbags and designer stuff and trips and just a bunch a crap. And so, you know, Raven got to the point where she was doing a bunch of ads and that account started to accumulate higher and higher and higher and higher. And I'm like, and Raven came to me one day was like, Adam, what do I do with this? How can I multiply this? How can

I expand this? And again, I'm biased in real estate because I do it every day, but there are other avenues you could take with financial planners or, you know, stock brokers or, you know, people of that nature. But she came to me and was like, Adam, I want to put this to work. And so being the guy that I am, there was a property that was really close to her hometown in Arkansas. And there was a deal that I saw where I co-called the guy. And luckily enough, the guy said, well, the guy lived in Kansas. And he said, well, you know, it's funny you call because I own a mobile home park here and I'm trying to pour a big pad of concrete so all these, you know, RV trucks can pull up and do their electric hookups and I need to free up some capital for it and I'm yeah I'm willing to sell my deal I have

and so I said okay well can you send me the lease and let's take a look at it and I'll provide you with pricing on it and so he sent over the lease I said hey look based off of the condition of the building it's going to need X Y and Z to fix it up and make it look nice you know we're willing to give you X and the guy was like that's a little less than what I want but let me talk to my son I'll get back to the next day and so he called me the the next day and was like, all right, you got a deal. And so put the deal under contract and Raven put, you know, this ad money that she had or this money that she worked towards for such a long time. I would say she probably accumulated over the year and year and a half. And again,

everyone wants this instant gratification. Instant gratification. You guys got to understand wealth is measured in time, right? Money is measured very quickly. You're like, hey, you know, how much do you have, boom, I got 100 bucks. But if you're wealthy, that type of money will compound over itself in the long term. And so we wanted to create a vehicle that Raven can park her money into that's going to spin off cash flow. And that money is used to pay for her car payment. It's used to pay for shopping expenses. It's used to pay for her car insurance, right? So we wanted to use that and also the value that real estate can appreciate over time as well. It's very, very beneficial and kind of get her foot in the door to start that as early as possible. Yeah, I think it's

such a great example because there's two things that are so important in anyone's day-to-day, I would say wealth building. You want cash flow. So what is cash flow? Cash flow could be a lot of things. It could be your W-2 job. It could be influencing, right? Cash comes in. It allows you to do stuff. The big thing where people miss is creating equity value. So you got your cash flow, how are you taking that, multiplying it? And having equity value for Raven and getting in commercial real estate, when she just not really familiar with commercial real estate is unbelievable. The other thing, AG, is I have to assume once she starts this real estate project and she creates the LLC with it, there's also some tax incentives with writeoffs and maybe things that she might

have not otherwise had. So she's gaining equity in the actual commercial real estate. She has rent cash flow. So she's getting excess cash versus what rent is after paying any type of lender mortgage. And on top of it, there are tax strategies you can use and deploy once you have real estate. I mean, it's a three hit piece right there. huge. Yeah. And I'm her agent who represented her on the transaction. I'm also the part property manager, but, you know, sometimes you got to put in a lot of the elbow grease up front,

you know, to get something up and off and going. And it's taken a year now. The property had some issues with some mold damage, but we got everything kind of remediated and everything's taken care of. But now it's, it's the Taj Mahal of, of the area. And we got it to a point now where it's pretty self-sufficient. It's stabilized. And now the trick is to get the tenant to extend their lease for five to 10 years more. And at that point, either sell it and then you do a 1031 tax deferred exchange into another deal or, you know, sell it, pay the tax on it and then figure out if she wants to pay down any other liability that she may want to. But I think the game playing with what we're trying to achieve is sell it and then roll that into a higher deal, right? You

always want to kind of level up on each deal that you buy. So that's the, that's the strategy we try to kind of go after now. And so as anyone's like processing this, the reason they want to lock that 10-year tenant up is because once that tenant is locked up, it's obviously more advantageous to go to the market and say, hey, here's your piece of real estate and here's your tenant who just signed a 10-year commitment. You can buy this sitting at home, knowing that for 10 years as long as they stay in business, you're good to go. I mean, that that is huge. What type of appreciation has she seen since buying it versus today for like the actual building value. Is it pretty significant? Well, it's a little tough because commercial,

depending if it's an owner user play or it's an income producing property. And what I mean by that is owner user would be a very good example would be if a doctor owned his own doctor single tenant office building. And then he wanted to sell his practice in the building and the building's vacant. That's an owner user. An income producing property like this, I'm going to use just use an example like a Walgreens. A Walgreens has a lease that's attached to a as time goes on, that lease dwindles down. And when that lease dwindles down, your level of risk goes up, aka your cap rate, your cap rate goes up because the tenant could potentially leave at the end of that term.

And now you're left with a vacant building that you have to spend money to spend on tenant improvement costs. You have to spend on a leasing commission. You have to spend on remodeling it to get at that point. And so that's the catch-22 with retail property that you kind of run into. but ideally you still have appreciation, but it's not like a residential house. So your value is really in the lease term that's there. And that's how much time you know you're going to have that's going to cash flow

the property for X amount of years. So you have a 10-year lease, it looks really good because you have essentially 10 years of guaranteed income from a publicly traded company where the odds of them going bankrupt or going vacant is going to be slim to none, right, like Walgreens. Or you have a year or two years left. from the lease where the tenant may come to you and say, you know, thanks for being a landlord the last X amount of years, you know, thanks so much per our lease, we're going to, we're going to vacate or we want a big rent reduction in exchange for some term. And then maybe you can get

creative with trying to figure out what to do with them at that point. Because the ultimate nightmare situation in commercial real estate is that you have a nice property and you have a ton of square fee and you have a monster mortgage to pay and your tenants gone and you have no one that's paying that mortgage right like that is the ultimate disaster correct very much and that's why when we talked about lenders and commercial transactions there's a lot more that there's a lot of infrastructure that goes in the place that's why commercial typically has that's non-owner user occupied i know a lot of people maybe watch your show that see the the guys on instagram or tic talk that say hey buy a duplex live in one half of it and then lease out

the other half. And you could do that. That's great because you can only you can only put down 3%. But when you talk about retail, not owner user occupied, sometimes you got to put minimum of 20% down. And then, you know, there has to be enough they call it DCR debt coverage ratio where your rental income that's coming in minus your mortgage or your note. There needs to be a set amount left behind as a reserve. So that way tenant leaves, you can float yourself for a little bit of time. I love it. I mean, this has been a great episode. Adam, this is one where people are going to literally listen and they're going to need a pad of paper or their note app out because there's so many solid takeaways that people can deploy into their real estate investing strategies. Before we let you go, I've got to get a trading secret. Before I do that, I got a couple rapid fire questions for you if you're ready. All right. So the first one is what is your dream property to own? One day would you be like, this is the property that I dreamed to own one day. Wow. I would say it would be a very high profile property that's on a hard very good thoroughfare or an intersection somewhere or a very high

profile shopping center in a in a very dense neighborhood in a great growing city in Dallas you can certainly accomplish that I love Nashville Nashville Nashville's on fire too it's tax free state too so I love investing in tax free states but if it's here in your backyard it's much easier to keep an eye on it and obviously you just know it better I love it I would tell you right here right now off this rapid fire record I would move to Dallas tomorrow if Kate one was willing to do so. I love that city. All right, tools and resources. You mentioned Redfin and Zillow. What are some other tools and resources you use on a day-to-day basis or ones you would suggest for someone that's looking to get maybe into their own type of real estate and

or commercial real estate? So there are some tools that you can purchase. One is called LandVision or Land Glide, both of which have like iPhone app capability. And what those allow you to do is basically will pull up on your phone like a Google Maps. You could see a property in the lot line on it. You can click it and he'll say, owner is Jason Tardick, you purchase it on this date. It won't give you a phone number, but you can maybe do a reverse phone number search through either Google or some free websites that are out there to find a telephone number. And then you can essentially, you know, call or call that person to inquire about the property. Okay, got it.

There's some good resources there. All right. How much do you think, I know this is a tough question? It's a tough one. But how much if someone wanted to get started into any form of real estate investing, what amount do you think they need to get started? That question just varies. I would say the bare minimum, and this is a very well-built property that's not going to be extreme high risk, it's probably going to be about $600,000. So you're going to need 20% down. So it's a very safe number. You're

going to need about $100,000 to $150,000. That is enough to open the pool of multiple parts of commercial retail property. Now, this doesn't include industrial or multifamily or office use, I would say for a very good middle of the road property that you know that you're going to be very comfortable purchasing, anywhere from about $100,000 to $120,000. I love it. Great answer. And what we'll do also in the recap, guys, we're going to put some reits out there. So if you don't have the $125,000,000, you can actually invest in publicly traded companies that only invest in commercial real estate. So you can at least get in the game for a little bit. but that is a great breakdown AG.

But man, before we let you go, this has been a great. This is literally a pen and pad session that people are actually 100% going to take into account for what they're doing and how they're doing it. But before we let you go, we got to get a trading secret. So some type of secret from your industry, real estate, financial moves you've made that, you just can't learn a textbook, you can't find in a classroom. What would your trading secret, AG, be? Jason, you're getting me good.

First thing I'm going to say is we're going to have to do a part two on this because there's lots of layers to this, right? I would say my biggest trade secret is it's two parts. One is you need to find a firm or mentor that you really click with. It's very, very rare to find someone that you can really ride and the partners that I'm fortunate to have here within Strive. You've got to have really good partners that are willing to teach you and be a giver and include you on transactions and not be selfish about the dollar amount, but, but more or less kind of set you up long term. And the second part to that is create banking relationships with small community banks. I think a lot of people overlook that and they go, well, I just need to deal with

the J.P. Morgan's, the Bank of America's and the Wells Fargoes of the world. But in retrospect, those smaller banks can either lend to you at a very similar interest rate, but they can also jump through hoops where that you know that other banks can't and the first deal that i did jason i went to four banks and i got rejected on four different banks and i went to the fifth one they were like we like this deal and we like you and we're banking on it because we see your vision behind it and so it's very important for people to utilize these community banks not only for home mortgages but maybe if you want to buy and flip a house and utilize these small community banks very very important to leverage those as there's a lot of

tap capital that you can really you can get into in those ones too. That is awesome. And we have heard this theme too through the founder of Netflix who was on Adam. And one thing he talks about fundraising in a small business is OPM, other people's money. And banks come into OPM too. And so anyone out there that is very unfamiliar with commercial real estate investing, it is so pertinent to get a good lender. If you can't get the money or debt like Adam's saying, you won't get the deal done. And as a guy who used to be a lender, and I'll talk about this a little bit in the recap, we were good at certain things, we sucked at commercial real estate. So if you came to us, in my opinion, we did. If you came to us with a great deal, we could have shattered your dreams

by saying you're not going to do it. And if you didn't go to other banks like AG suggesting, your dreams might be shattered. And that deal that could have been absolutely massive, might have not gotten done. So Adam, this has been great. I mean, you're right. We could do a whole we could do a master class because we haven't even, this is literally just scratching the surface of residential real estate, commercial real estate, touch a little bit on industrial, space, a retail space, office space. I mean, there's so much more to cover, but we've already gone well over our time limit. So, man, we appreciate, we appreciate having you on. If people want a little bit more of AG in their lives, whether it's just to follow your personal story

with Raven or to learn more about business, where can they find everything you got going on? You can find me pretty much Instagram. That's just basically at Adam Gottschalk, GOTTS, and then chalk like chalk for blackboard. And I'm trying to get more into the brand of what I'm trying to do on my social media. So feel free to ask me questions. I'm an open book. I try to, I'm trying my best to be more proactive. Jason, I know you and I've always talked about like how I should present it, but I just got to do it. And I know it's out there, but I think financial literacy is becoming more and more pertinent and promising in our world. So I'm going to start doing that more. And that's my promise to you and the restart community. Thank you for

having me again, man. It's been long overdue and can't wait to link up with you the next time. And I'm a huge follower, man. So every time you post something, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm there. And you got my votes, man. So thank you so much. You're the man, AJ. We appreciate it. Thank you, man. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell to the Adam G podcast with the one and only. David Ardoin, you know his name by now. Don't even need to say it. But this is the first time ever, ever we are recapping live. We are here at the Del Lago. Casino in Waterloo, New York.

It's a beautiful thing. So, David, first of all, it's great to see you. Second of all, what do you think? I know you probably have a shit ton of questions. This was a technical episode. Yeah, first of all, fantastic to be here. Anytime we can get together, it's a great time. First time we've ever podcasted together in person.

So it's just a lot of fun. It's good to see you, Jay. Likewise, baby. So this episode, you hit the nail on the head. It felt like I was on my first day of college taking a real estate 101 course. and you walk out of the class and you say, Google, how to switch a major? Because it was so over my head,

but we read the reviews that people leave online. Everyone wants a real estate episode. So I thought this was really good, like a low level on high level. So I thought it was a really, really good episode. Nice. So yeah, like was this like, you know, crazy pop culture, like wild entertainment,

you know, Rob Deerdeck makes 125K an episode? No, but this was exactly. what people wanted. They wanted someone who's in the market, who crushes the market in commercial real estate and residential real estate and could just talk through it. And I think that's what we got, which was awesome. Yeah, I mean, you know, you touch on a little bit about his bachelor life pre and post. And to know that he was doing the same thing, you just don't see that very often, especially to the levels of success that he did it. And you talked about how this isn't really an industry that benefits from being on the show. I know other industries that people

go on the show and it really helps them in the workplace. This isn't. He's true. He's true. really like a master of what he does. He has grinded to get where he's gotten and really impressive with some of his like, you know, just life takeaway mindset type of skills that he has. But there's a laundry list of definitions that the Curious Canadian has no clue what they are. So fire away. If you want fire away. Okay. So first off, I'm going to preface this. I'm a homeowner. I've gone through a lot of these things in the process. So embarrassing that we can go through these things in our lives and have them complete and done and be so ill-educated on what things are.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. First example. Underwriting. Underwriting. So what is it you're saying? Yeah, like, I know that, oh, it's getting, it's with the underwriter. I'm like, okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I actually did a year as an underwriter. But underwriting applies to everything, not just mortgages. And when I say everything, I mean, like, think about life insurance. You have to have that underwritten. Essentially, what a underwriter is doing is they are assessing the, risk of whatever the deal is on the table. And based on the risk, they're determining and working on what the rate should be, if it should be approved, and if it makes sense. So someone like Adam is working with a client, or let's say Jason is a banker, I work with a client. I have to

submit the deal and pitch it to underwriting. So there's two different departments, like in, for example, this one, a bank. And the underwriter will say, Jason, based on the way you've pitched this company, I will approve the bank's money to go out and lend it to them. Now, if I have someone who wants money from the bank and I go to pitch it to the underwriter and they say, no, this is too risky for us. It does not meet the criteria we want as a bank. We can't get the return based on the risk. The underwriter will say no. So they'll determine if the deal gets approved and what the structure will be. If you are an underwriter, how do you become one? Like, what's the track? Do you go to school for law? Do you go to school for business? No, it's very analytical based. So some people will just

have other degrees and they'll get into like junior analyst roles. But if you're an underwriter, you're crunching numbers and you're doing analytical work on all sorts of things related to the deal to see if it makes sense for the company to do the deal or not. Okay. Next one that could apply to me with the way that the market is going, cash out refi in terms of refinance. Huge. I mean, this is the name of the game in real estate. You use other people's debt to build onto your portfolio and continue to grow. That's how you do it. Bank money is so cheap right now. What is a cash out? Refai? Exactly what it sounds like. You're taking equity, so you're cashing out based on the equity you have in the property. So I'm sorry, you're taking cash out based on

equity that's been generated in the property. And it's usually going to be above the sum of the current loan note, right? I'll give you an example. Can we use my house an example? Let's your house as an example. Bought the house a year and a half ago, $360,000. Okay. Probably done a few things to it. Appraisal, it could probably get it for,

probably put on the market in the market today for $4.60. Okay. Pretty good for a year and a half. Pretty good. Is there a cash out free-fi option for this? This is a perfect scenario. So it was $360. The value of the house is now $460.

What's the balance of your loan note around? I put 20% down. So it was about $80,000 down. Most of it I've paid down as interest on the first year of the mortgage. So I think it's down like 260. Okay. So you have a house that's valued at $460,000, but you have a loan note that's only $260,000. Right? Yeah. So what we would do is we're going to take out the equity of your house is $460. If I'm an underwriter, I'll say that I'm going to give you 80% a the value of your home. So how do you determine that? You said $460. I just multiply it times 80%. That's $368,000. And I will give you a loan up to $368,000. So you come to the bank, Jason comes in. I give you $368,000. And I'm going to give it to it a rate lower than your existing note that has $260,000 balance. You say, no-brainer, right? You take the $368, you pay off that other note. Then what's the difference? have $108,000 to do whatever the hell you want to do. You can go invest into a company. You can go buy another piece of real estate. You could buy commercial real estate, right? That's how people do it.

They build equity in the homes based on appreciation value and they take the equity out. They get the cash and they go do more with it. That was the deepest Tarduk and I have ever stared into each other's eyes during an explanation because he's like, we see it firing right now. Did it make sense though? Yeah. So you could pull out 108,000 bucks of your home right now. The only part that doesn't make sense is the fact that it's so difficult to understand and maybe not difficult to understand, but like hidden from us. And so it's like it sounds so much like I want to go do it tomorrow. And I probably should.

I just need some plan to invest it in. You know what I mean? You would want to plan and reason for the cash before you just took it out and had a greater loan, essentially. All right. Next thing is rent roll. Okay. What is the rent roll?

I heard rent roll come up a couple times. So it's literally, it's just if you have a commercial property, let's say you let's stay basic here. So let's say you have a multi-family, a multi-family property, right? So there's many families that live in the property. Apartment complex, condominiums. So you got condominiums or apartment complex. Let's say there's 10 apartments and they each pay rent. You will literally have like an itemized profit and loss that will say like apartment one, what they're paying in rent.

Apartment two, what they're paying in rent. and it gives you an idea of what the total income is per unit. Okay, that makes sense. What about cap rate? So cap rate is the rate of return. Just think in commercial real estate, if you guys hear the word cap rate, like, oh, that building's cap rate of 6.2, you'll make 6.2%. How do you figure it out?

You figure it out, it's the net operating income divided by the current market value of the property. So if the market value of the property is up, obviously that is like if you're paying more, you're going to get less return, right? So these are the things you want to think about before buying the, buying the property. Now, go ahead. I have something's on top of you. I can see it.

I'm jaw dropped a little bit. You know how there's scientific calculators to help you figure like sign, cosign, like all that stuff thrown up? Is there a real estate calculator? There is a finance calculator. Like when you were in like in my MBA, you had to have like a finance calculator. Yeah. But there could be.

Okay, so I see we were going with this. There could be like a basic ass that like finance calculator that's not like, MBA driven, but it's like mortgage, cap rate, you press the button, and it gets it done for you. Refide. You say cap rate, right? You just hit it. And the calculus says like, input the value of the property, input, operating income. There's your cap rate.

Genius. Ideas. Inventors.com. All right. Last definition. Then we're going to get in a couple of questions. I might need this tomorrow after our first night together since my wedding. What's that by dog?

A couple references was hair on a deal. Hair on a deal. Hair on a deal. Okay. Let's pretend this. So, I already gave you the example. I'm a banker. I got to go pitch underwriting, why we should do the deal.

I'm going to give an example of what hair on the deal would be. Let's say you are a company, David, and you sell hockey sticks. But 90% of all your sales go through a store in Buffalo, New York. So 90% of your revenue is generated by this one store on Main Street in New York, but they murder it. It's a great store. If I'm the banker, my underwriter is going to call me and say, Jason, This has got hair on the deal. This is choppy.

I don't know if I can lend to David. Well, why underwriter? Because there's one company that's providing all David's sales. If that company goes out of business, David's revenue has gone 90%. And the loan we give him, he's not going to pay us back. That's hair on the deal. So hair on the deal are things that are creating some type of challenge for the deal to get structured or completed. All right.

We're going to get in a couple questions really quick. Fireway. How critical is a tenant? in a commercial real estate deal. I mean, it's massive, right? So think about this. If I have an empty building and I can have a relationship

with someone at Walgreens, like he mentioned, and have Walgreens put in a 10-year lease there, that value of that property, you know, whatever. I'm just saying at the top of my head, quadruples. You had an empty building

generating no revenue. All I did was I have my guy who I'm friends with that Walgreens say, hey, this is perfect. Obviously, this is more complicated than this guy's, but you get Walgreens in there, that property goes up significantly.

So the value of, especially like, retail space like that. It's all based on your customer and how long of a lease they've signed. It's not like residential where the property is instantly valued based on like where it is, how many bedrooms it has. It's really based on the tenant inside of it. And yes, of course, the class real estate matters, but that's the high level answer. Okay, that was an easy one. This one, uh, reet. Reit. R-E-I-T, what is it? And what is an example of one that I can invest in? It's a real estate investment trust. If you can't actually go out and buy a piece of property today because you don't

have the money, what you could do is go buy a publicly traded reet. I'll give you one right now that I like that you can buy for, what is it trading? $10.71. You can own one share of a reet called New Residential Investment Corp, NRZ. It's a residential reet that you can go buy right now and now you can say you're in the market of real estate for $10.71. All right. I want your take on one last thing and then I got one rapid fire for you. He brought up titles and it's something that we haven't really dove

too deep into in trading secrets but I'm curious your take on how he said like people attach themselves with titles and then I have like a real world example of something like this that I think is wild but I want to hear your overall thoughts on just your

perception of how titles have changed human behavior or viewed by human behavior year in 2022. I mean, this could be a whole podcast because like, even just like if you say you're an influencer, people like, you're a fucking joke buddy, right? You go to a networking event, say I'm a financial influencer. People would be like, you're a loser.

But there's just no scope of what dollars or success rate means there. I think it's very old school and traditional. And it still lives and breathes in the very old school traditional cultures like real estate, like attorney work, like accounting work, like banking work. that is how, like Adam said, you really do know the impact and probably the managerial power of the decision maker in those establishments. You know the president of the bank has a lot of pull. You know that the partners at law firms have a lot of pull. So in those worlds, which I can't stand, he's right. It does have an establishment of credibility and power.

Do you think that they hold the weight that people put in them? No, hell no. And the thing is like at a bank, right? People say, I'm a VP of a bank. There's a thousand. There's literally 10,000 VPs. I think that there's so many examples of like they almost don't exist. Like here's a total wild example. When I heard him say this, it made me think of like, you ever been in an airport and you see like the velvet ropes or like a nightclub, the velvet roads of a nightclub or like

the barriers. Like the ropes, of course. Yeah. People, it's like the highest standard of authority in human society is a, rope. It's like at an airport. Everyone follows the rules. Garry got got to go around. Got to go around the rope.

Isn't that funny? It's one red velvet rope for the IP. It's like fire. Like can't touch it. Got to go around it. Yeah. It's like, it's like, can't go in this door.

There's a red rope here. So that's like for me, it's like, what do we view is like, is a society sometimes? It's like titles. It's like a title is a title. But the people below the title, they're the ones doing all the work. Like the value of people within different industries with titles. Like I think we're moving away from it, a little bit. They'll always be there in corporate America

because they need to dangle the care in front of your face. But always respect the people below the titles and give them their values. You look to like network and move up and career navigation. All like you said, treat literally, treat everyone equal. It doesn't matter how large or small their title is. You never know

where they'll be tomorrow. And even if they are in the same position they always are in, your title doesn't define you. The last thing I'll say is I know a lot about HR and a lot of these companies. And they'll give you titles because they don't want to compensate you because people are so damn stupid. They'll be paid less. They'll get less benefits just so they can walk around with their ego saying they have a certain title, which is so dumb.

I want to give one quick example here. I'm in Rochester, New York this weekend. I think it's a perfect example for commercial real estate. Then we're going to wrap. Buddy Jordan Morganstern, this is an example of what he did. He saw in it, Jordan and Adrian Morganstern saw an area where there was a bakery that was completely shot. It was a bakery. He's like, these guys can't be producing much money. There clearly, there's no upkeep here, but it was in a really good growing area of Rochester. So what did they do? He went to the bake. You found out who owns that building directly and said, listen, it looks a little unserviced. I'll give you a premium offer for it. And there was no brokers. No one was involved. The guy took the offer. He's got this bakery that's a

dump. Jordan has the connections to get a developer in there. They clean it out. Upkeep. it and now it's a beautiful restaurant spitting off a ton of money. That is really how you can do well when you can be, you have your eyes on the prize, you can see a vision before it happens, you can contact the owner directly through networking, and then you can make that come to fruition. I think that's a cool example. We were there last night. It was pretty sweet. It was just like AG said, just be obsessed with what you do. Be obsessed with study, research, have your own system, do all those things, like have your own eye for what you see is like value and important. So that's a perfect example. Shut out Jordan and Adrian. Before I let you go, you know, we usually talk reality

TV, real estate episode. What's your favorite HG TV show? Because I know you've watched them all. Wow. HG TV TV TV. I like the brothers. I like the property brothers. I do. I think it's actually pretty good. How about you? That's one of my doppelgangers. Yeah, I agree with that. I always get that all the time. Do you have one that you like? Yeah, lover to list it. I was going to literally say. And what's her name? Jillian Harris is the host of, I think, Lever List in Canada. Canada. Yeah. Gillian, I think Gillian is, or no, Hillary. Hillary is the American one. Yeah. I'm team Hillary. Julian Harris's name has come up way too many times this podcast for us not to bring her out. We'll bring her on. I couldn't agree more. All right,

it's happening. Anything else, brother? No, good to see you. Good to see you. Good to be here. We are out in Rochester, New York. You got to love it. I want to end this podcast with this. If nothing else, please go to Adam. in Raven's Instagram and wish them a huge congratulations because they just had their first newborn. They're incredible people with such amazing character. They're both driven individuals. They're part of the Bachelor franchise. They're our family.

They'll always be family. And a huge congratulations to Adam and Raven. We love you guys. And we hope that all of you thought this was another episode you couldn't afford to miss. Please remember to give us five star rating. Give us your feedback. you want a commercial real estate, we gave it to you. We'll see you next Monday on another episode of Trading Secrets,

one you can't afford to miss. Thank you.