Trading Secrets - 38: DWTS Pro Dancer Lindsay Arnold talks Pay, Performance & Profession of dancing

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

On this week’s episode of Trading Secrets, Jason is joined by Dancing with the Stars professional, Lindsay Arnold. They dive into the particulars of the dancing industry, discussing her journey from the age of 4 to becoming a pro. From navigating finances as an 18-year-old, to “So You Think You Can Dance” to DWTS show, live tour, and everything in between. Lindsay trades all the secrets regarding her career track and dollars behind the dancing industry. Her entire professional journey, highs and lows are discussed. It’s another episode you can’t afford to miss.  Sponsor: ourcrowd.com/secrets to join for free For All Access Content - join our networking group for less than 30 cents a day! Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. We're here with a special guest who is a professional dancing queen, choreographer, and model, none other than Lindsay Arnold. You probably know her from her very successful career. on Dancing with the Stars, which she's been a professional dancer since 2013. Now, she started as a group dancer and eventually was promoted to a professional dancing partner. We're going to get into the differences, monetarily and professionally. But Lindsay has made the finals nearly every time and was crowned the mirror ball champion

alongside her celebrity partner, Jordan Fisher, on season 25. What you might not know about Lindsay is that she is a successful entrepreneur who has built a lifestyle empire with cosmetics, clothing, and jewelry lines. Also, she went on Dancing with the Stars tour. The same tour Caitlin is currently hosting, so we're going to get into that too. Without further ado, let's get into it, Lindsay. Thank you so much for being here today. We are excited to have you on training secrets. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to chat today. Amazing. Well, I told you even before we started, you are our first dance pro from Dance With the Stars. You're our first dance pro in general. And I am like slowly starting to get to know this industry a little bit only because of Caitlin's

involvement. But it's a crazy industry. It really is. First of all, I'm very honored to be your first dancer because that makes me very happy. And yes, you guys have gotten kind of like the fast lane into the dance world with Caitlin because she being on Dancing with Stars now, on the tour. Like, you guys have really gotten a pretty good taste of what this industry is like. It's pretty crazy. I'm very grateful for it. I've had so many great times in it, but there's so much that goes into it. Yeah. And what fascinates me about it, too, is I feel like it is a very generational thing. So I'm now learning all about Caitlin's past in dancing, or I have learned, of course. And then I started learning that her mother was a professional dancer up in Edmonton at the ballet.

And then her grandfather was a dancer. I'm like, oh, my God, it goes generation. of generation. And then I'm looking at all of your past and your history and your mother. And I looked at it looks like she was so supportive that she actually started a dance studio for you when you started at the age of four. So did you start that early at the age of four? And is this research I found her actually creating a dance studio for your benefit? True? Yes, it is. So it's actually pretty crazy though, because you would think that she was a dancer. I actually had a very interesting start. dancing. So I'm the oldest of four girls. My parents, neither of them were dancers. My mom actually showed horses growing up and my dad was a football player. So like totally different things.

And for some reason, when I was four years old, my mom decided to put me into a dance class, like a local dance class. No idea why, because it's not like that's what she did when she was younger. She just did it. And I guess I just immediately latched on to it. I'd come home. I'd be dancing to every time the song turned, like a song turned out, I'd be dancing. So I think she just gathered that that's what I like to do. And then the rest is history. Like that became my whole entire family's life. All of my sisters started dancing after me. And then my parents actually opened at the dance studio for us to train at because they figured like if we're going to be supportive of our daughters and be involved in their careers and their passions, we want to be fully involved. So

they open up a dance studio. But it's crazy because people then assume like think that maybe like my mom taught me, but she's never danced a day in our life. I mean, I think if I actually really got down to it and taught her. She'd be decent, but she's not a dancer. But she just was so, both her and my dad were from day one so involved in every single thing that me and my sisters liked to do. And we're very, very blessed for that. That is really cool. I mean, we just saw a professional athlete, NBA player, Mon win the mirror ball. So is that like, I mean, you must have got those dancing moves from somewhere. Was your dad a professional football player? He wasn't a professional. He wanted to go professional. But he played in college. He was like,

that was kind of his hopes, but it didn't work out. But he loved, I mean, full athlete and still an athlete. And honestly, like, I think if it came down to it between my mom and my dad, I feel like the moves come more from my dad than my mom. Like, he definitely, I think if he trained, he'd actually be decently, decently good at dancing. You are on the record saying they came from your dad, not your mom. I love it.

Exactly. That is awesome. So one thing I have to ask you about before we move on from this is I'm not sure if you know anything about the finances associated with opening a studio. But if someone is listening to this saying, like, you know, kids dance, I wonder if that's something that's feasible. Do you know either how much like it cost to actually start a studio or maybe in your vantage point with your notoriety and fame? Like, would you ever consider opening a studio? Is that a business you would suggest getting into

not getting into? Like, what's your overall take of that side of the industry? So from learning from what my parents did and from what I've seen people do, my take on that side of the industry is that if you want to do that, you need to go into it because it's your passion, not because you think it's going to be this huge moneymaker for you. That's a good point. Because I think with dance studios, it's more about having a passion for wanting students to learn, for creating a good environment for people to learn a new skill. Like, I think that's where the drive should come from because it can be tough. I think my parents, I also think it depends on the kind of person you are. My parents are very generous, or have always been extremely

generous. So when it came to opening up a dance studio, they cared more about everybody. feeling like they had a place to learn and a place to feel welcome and feel wanted. And sometimes that's not how business goes. I mean, sometimes if you want a successful business, you kind of have to leave the emotion and the personal feelings out of it. So I think it depends on the kind of person you are. But from the perspective of having a family who did that for me, I can safely say without a doubt that I would not be where I am today. I would not have the opportunities, the experience, and the knowledge that I do without my parents making the sacrifice of the time and the money that it was to open a place where we felt supported and loved and educated.

And so I think if that's something that you want to do, if you have kids who are dancers or you want to do that sort of thing, I think just know that it's hard work. And maybe it won't be the most incredible moneymaker, but it's going to change people's lives. And I think that's something that's really notable. And it does make me think that in the future that I may want to be. want to do that. I mean, I have a daughter. She's just one. Yeah. I know if she wants to dance, I'm going to be so involved in that. So I definitely would take that avenue because I think that being involved in young adults and how they learn and grow and how they pursue their passions

is something that is super important. I think it's one of the most important things. So I am all for it. But I will say, from what I've heard and what I've learned, it's definitely not this huge moneymaker where I don't think that should be your goal. If that's your goal, I think, think you're going to be disappointed and it's not going to be something that is worthwhile. That makes sense. If you go all in, it seems as though once you do go all in, so many career opportunities can come from that. Like if you look like a Len, right?

I mean, look at Len's age at this point. Can he dance professionally? No, but because he went in at the early age that he did, he now has this skill set and this acumen and this credibility. You know, you could be a judge. He could be a teacher. I mean, I'm sure there's so many opportunities. But I saw for you, Lindsay, that you trained in ballet.

jazz, hip-hop, contemporary, Latin ballroom. Now, I'm going to compare, I don't really know much about that, but again, I'm learning. I'm going to compare it to something I do know, like a baseball player who throws left-handed. You could actually make more money if you're a left-handed thrower. In these type of variety of dance styles, is there any specific dance style in which you're like, you know what, you really want to laser focusing on that because the career trajectory is greater? Is there anything like that in that world? 100. Well, for me, 100%. So one thing, and well, I would say the biggest thing that set me

apart in my career and is truly the reason why I was able to do what I've done was the fact that I trained in ballroom and all of the other styles. So typically, as in a dancer's world, you were either like a jazz, ballet, hip-hop contemporary dancer or you're a Latin ballroom dancer. Very rarely do you have dancers who do everything. And that's something that at my dance studio, all of us trained in. So people like me, Whitney Carson, who's also on Dancing with the Stars, Jenna Johnson, Brandon, we all grew up doing all styles across the board. So when it came to auditioning for shows, like, so you think you can dance.

When it comes to that show, you have to do all styles. So the fact that we were so cross-trained and equal abilities in every single style really set us apart. And I think is the reason we were able to move on to more things. And then the fact that dancing with the stars is primarily ballroom. We easily jumped into that and adapted to that, but it's fun because throughout the years, Dancing with the Stars has totally evolved. They've started adding jazz and contemporary as styles on the show.

So when that started happening, the dancers like us from Utah who had cross-trained were so excited because we're like, we already know how to do this. Whereas some of the other pros were like, I've never done a contemporary routine in my life. So that's something that they had to like learn. So I would say the biggest, I wouldn't say ballroom is the most important because if you just know ballroom, that cuts out a whole world for you. But if you just know this, it cuts out this world. So I would say that again, if you want to make this your career, you've got to have knowledge in every single style. Because you want to be that person that no matter what the job is,

they say, hey, can you do hip hop? Yep. Can you do ballroom? Yep. I got it. Like you want to be the yes man that can do everything and has a little taste of everything. So that whatever opportunity arises, you're ready for it. That is pretty cool. And it's wild at that training that you did at that age, all that has paid such dividends for the world that you're living in now with dancing with the stars and have lived in and so you think you can dance. And as you're telling me this, I have like 8 million questions firing off my head about dancing with the stars and so you think you can dance. But I don't want to pass a few things before I get to that world because there's so many things I want to ask you about. But the one thing I want to touch on before we take a dive

into like the professional life was I had read just these accolades and awards. It's like countless, right? Like first place in the United States Open Youth Latin Championships. I'm seeing that you top three finalists in World Junior Latin team match. Top five finalists at the World Cup, I can keep listing all off these. I mean, top finalists at United States Junior National Ten Dance Champion. Like, I can't even imagine what your trophy case looked like at home. But I'm wondering, in these competitions, is there ever a point, like in different sports, there is a point that the reward doesn't become the trophies anymore and there actually are cash prizes? So interesting. In ballroom, when you're competing as a ballroom dancer, it's actually a rule that once you get paid to either teach or perform or do anything, you have to turn professional. So none of these competitions are, none of them are money. I mean, okay, I'm lying. There may have been a couple where like you'd get a gift certificate as like a congratulations. But there was no cash prizes. That wasn't a thing, which it's so crazy because thinking back like, I mean, when you're a kid, that's not a

what you think about. But it's interesting to think of the drive and the passion that thousands and thousands of competitors have to just, of dancers have to just go out there and compete just because they love it so much. And that's what it was. So as far as like cash prising, nothing. There was nothing with that. It was really just you wanted the honor of being the best. Like that was what drove us and that was our passion. And it's crazy. Because thinking back on all that and hearing some of the things you're saying, it's like it feels like a whole different lifetime. Like it felt like a whole different life of that competition world. I mean, going to competitions every single weekend, traveling across the crunchy, across the world,

honestly, and just doing so many different things with so many other people who are as passionate about the thing you are. It's crazy. I mean, I'm sure it's the same in sports, but it is pretty crazy. Yeah. And you could tell my brain, so my brain operates very simple, like input output, right? You put in all this effort, what's the outcome? So I am thinking in a lot of these sports, it's similar, I know I'm pro, like in tennis, like you can win big tournaments at 17, 18 world championships. And it's the same thing. You can't take any money because once you do, I believe you're not eligible for even like NCAAs in college. So is that a potential output?

Like can you be one of the best answers in the world and get a full scholarship at like a big college? Or is that not a thing? So there are a lot of scholarships. Like a lot, pretty much every school has probably some sort of dance program. Okay. But that has nothing to do with your placements in competition. Now, where the, so this is where the output comes. So if I had not gone into the world of TV and done all of that, me and my partner would have probably kept competing. And then what happens is, is the higher up you get in the competitive world, the better placements you get, the more competitions you win, you get a name for yourself. And then other students or younger children will pay you to teach them lessons. So that's how people that are, I mean, there's people competing right now that are 35, 40 years old. They're still competing. They have been and the way they make their money is because people will pay them to come perform at their

big gala that they're doing because they want to see some dancers or they'll pay them to come teach at their dance studio. So that's kind of where the output comes. And the better of a competitor you are, the more money you're going to make teaching, the higher price you can set. So that's kind of like the goal. But building up to that, there's nothing. Like it's always really impressive for me to see the people who are still competing because it's such a sacrifice. So it's really cool because you know how passionate they are about it. But then once you turn professional and start competing in the professional category, you can get paid to teach, you can get paid to perform. And that's kind of what the drive is. The better you are, the more of a name you have,

the more money you can make. Is dancing a Olympic sport or no? No, it's not. That's bullshit. I know. It should be. It really should be. And it's, I think that they've like, I mean, they definitely have to have thought about it. The only thing that's been like kind of hard, I understand why they wouldn't is because it is subjective. But then I'm like, so is ice skating, like ice dancing and so is like, there's so many things that's subjective. Even gymnastics is subjective, right? Yeah, it's true.

It's really just like, did I like the technique or did I not? Like, it's, I'm shocked that it's not. I really, it's crazy because it's such a huge industry. Like, it's shocking that it hasn't made it in there yet. Yeah. And Rob Deerdeck came on and he took ownership. Like he kind of was like, I was the guy that brought skateboarding to the Olympics. So I think, Lindsay, you need to be the person, the woman that brings dancing to the Olympics.

Honestly, I haven't even thought about needing a, like, you're right, I should be that person. They need a voice. Add it to that crazy resume of yours. It would be so cool. So then the way I'm interpreting this then, so as a young dancer, your options, if you want to have this as a professional career, is I assume, like you said, competition and teaching, TV, unscripted TV, that type of entertainment, or I assume like Broadway. I mean, are those the three professional outlets? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, you have like your stage performing, so that's all Broadway theater, any sort of thing like that. You teaching at a studio, opening a studio, competing, or going on TV and doing all that stuff, or choreographers. That's what's really fun is most of the

choreographers that work in the entertainment industry are actually people who maybe didn't even dance that much or didn't really have much success in their dance career, but we're incredible. brilliant, creative choreographers. And so it's really interesting that sometimes that, like, is a different avenue. Like, if you're a dancer and you understand dance, but you feel like maybe you just don't have the facility for it, they go in the choreography direction. And it's really cool. And so you had an academic scholarship at Utah Valley University, right?

So did you put that all on hold to go professional with dance? Yeah. But what's funny is audition for So You Think You Can Dance right after I graduated high school, got on the show, two months after graduating. and I go, okay, I'll just push my, I'll push college back a semester. So I did that. Did dance so you think you can dance. Then they're like, we want you to come on tour.

I was like, okay, I'll push you back one more semester. Then Dance With the Star is called. They're like, we want you to do this season. Pushed it back another. And then I think after that first season of Dancing with the Stars, I realized, I'm like, oh, maybe I don't need to go to college right now. Maybe I don't need to do that. But it's funny because it took me a really long time to like grasp that.

Like I think when things started happening, there was nowhere in my mind where I thought this was going to be a almost 10-year experience. I mean, it's almost been 10 years since I did so you think you can dance. But in my mind, starting that, I didn't think, like, okay, this is my career now. Like, everything else is out the window. Like, it really took a while for me to really grasp that that's the direction I was going in. Gotcha. And so we've had cast that have been from Bachelor of Paradise on the show, Big Brother,

survive, probably name a reality show, the challenge, all of them. And the one thing I'd be curious about is like, so you think you can dance a show like this, especially when you're just graduating high school. Do you get paid to go on a show like that, or do you only get paid if you make it to the top spots in which you go on tour? So, no. So you don't, so you think you can dance is an audition.

So you audition, like it's just open call, you show up. You eventually, they cut it down to 20 people, and those are the people that actually perform on the live show. Nobody gets paid. We do get, like, they move us out to L.A. And they put us up in housing for the filming. But you don't get paid, but there was a calf prize. So the winner of the show got, I think it was like a quarter million.

I think that was the cash prize, but it was just for the winner. Just so like the number one spot gets the quarter million or whatever it is. Number one spot gets the quarter million. Nobody else get paid. But then after that, the top 20 or sorry, the top 10, which I was a part of, we got asked to go on tour. And for the tour, we did get paid. We got like a weekly payment for that. So yeah, the actual TV show, though, no, you don't get any, you don't get paid for that.

You just are there. They take care of your housing. I mean, I'm pretty sure. they gave us like per diem for food but yeah that's it there's a cash prize that you're going for but that's it so when so that's that's awesome though because it's what got your foot in the door and then i'm always one like i'm always so curious about when someone's foot is in the door what is happening that propels them to that next level so you go on so you think you can dance tour and then you you land dancing with the stars at a young age actually one of the youngest ages that they've ever had

do you are you seek like in your head are you thinking i need again and dance with stars and dancing with stars? Or are you just performing and someone approaches you and says, hey, you're a perfect fit for what we're doing? Honestly, that's kind of how it went. Like, it really just, it kind of, I always, I don't, I don't want to say I hate saying this, but I feel so, like, naive saying that it kind of just fell into, like, fell into place because I understand that that's not the case for so many people. And I really do feel so incredibly blessed. Because looking back on that, I, I wasn't sitting there, like, actively seeking out dancing with the stars, trying to get on the show.

I was living in the moment and doing what I was doing and was so lucky enough to have that propel me into the other opportunity. Now, to look back, though, I mean, my family and my husband are always like, but Lindsay, you put in all the work prior. And that's why those things happen. So it's interesting because being on So You Think You Can Dance was almost like my audition for dancing with the stars. That's how they saw me.

They watched me every week on TV. They saw me dance in all styles. They saw me compete in ballroom. They saw me talk on television and saw what. my personality was like. So that's what kind of made them go, oh, we want to use her. But it's crazy when you think about it because I didn't like have an audition. I didn't like have a meeting with them. It really was just like the TV show, so you think you can dance was my audition. But I just didn't really realize that it was happening at the time that it was. That is so wow. Yeah, you got to put

yourself out there. You never know, like who will be seeing what you're doing, you know? That's the thing too is I really like, I'm such after all of that, I'm such a firm believer that like whatever you're doing in the moment, like put your all into it. because you never know who's watching, you never know what opportunity that's going to bring for you. And it's like even if you feel like you're not necessarily in the place that you maybe hope to be in, it's still a good place to be and you have to like make the most of that scenario. So I've really tried to do that moving forward since then. Yeah. And if you didn't pursue your passion, if you did end up going back to school,

Dancing with the Stars would have never seen you on that show and you never would have the opportunity you did, which is a wild turn of events. But so, Lindsay, when you go from being the backup on Dancing with the Stars to then becoming pro on, dancing with the stars. Is that a pretty natural progression if you look at most of the pros from Dancing with the Stars? Yes, but I actually, so I actually kind of did a weirder progression. So my very first season on the show, I actually was a pro. So I had a celebrity partner my very first season, which was not natural. They usually bring people on troop and have you kind of be a background dance for a little bit. But I'm 18. They made me a pro, gave me a celebrity

partner. Then I got the boot down to backup dancer for four seasons after that. Wow. Then I got up to pro. Yeah. But who was your pro that first time? My celebrity was Victor Ortiz. Victor Ortiz. He was a boxer. Yeah. Yeah. He was pretty tough. Not a great dancer. Difficult personality. So we had a hard time. But we, but, but he made it about halfway through the competition, which was like really good considering. Yeah. But then yeah, I think I mean, I wasn't ready. I just was not ready. I hadn't even been on the show ever to know kind of how things work. Sure.

I wasn't ready. So in hindsight, it's the best thing that happened to me that I went back down to being a background dancer or went down to being a background dancer. But as an 18 year old, that was tough. Oh, that's really tough. That's a tough blow because you're basically getting a demotion. Like it would have been so much easier if I started there and then got up. But to start here, go down and then get back up.

So that was definitely, honestly, that was probably one of the like hardest parts of my career was that kind of like that time period of just getting the demotion per se even though that's still such an incredible job like it's an amazing job and it was the best thing for me because it really propelled me into being ready for the time that they asked me to come back up as a professional yeah but when you think about your entire life up until that point it's literally just like a rocket ship trajectory like everything as you're going your way we already talked about the awards you've won top 10 and like the world and everything and then you're the youngest pro and then you're the youngest pro and then you get booted down.

And I know now looking back on it, you're grateful for it. And at that time, it was one of the lowest lows you had. But what did, like, how does Dancing with the Stars explain that to you? Like, how do they justify you got to go back down? Like, what do they say? Oh, they don't. That's, they're just like, oh, you're going to be a group. Yeah, they don't.

They just don't. Because here's the thing is they know that if I were to, like, I mean, they just don't. They're like, this is what you're doing. And if you don't want to do it, guess what? There's a million people that want to do it, right? Exactly. And I get that. Like in my mind, I'm sitting there bummed, but at the same time, I'm like, there are so many people who would kill to be in my position. So don't take this for granted. But I mean, that's my mature brain saying that now. When I was 18 years old, it was a lot harder for me to understand. But yeah, it's not really a, it's not really a conversation. Let us explain to you how we make the decisions here. It's a this is our decision. You do what you want with it. So it wasn't really any justification. I mean, in hindsight, I know it was just because I wasn't. quite ready. I think I needed more time to mature, first of all. And to really, like, find out who I was as a, like, entertainer, if that makes sense. I mean, you really have to come into your own and kind

of figure out who you are as a person, because that's unfortunate. I mean, not unfortunately, but that's a thing. You have to find your, like, entertainment personality. Right. And that, that story resonates with, I think, definitely what Caitlin and I go through, too, is, right? If you look at five, six years ago, Caitlin was managing a restaurant, right? And I was a banker. And then you have this overnight thing happen. And from there, there's other opportunities. And people will always say, like, you know, how challenging is it? Like, you have to, you have a plan for, like, what your life's going to be. And then they call with an opportunity and you're just gone for three months. But to your point, Lindsay, like, you have to recognize, like, at least for

us, like, where, and I'm not comparing, obviously, you have a completely skill. We just went on a stupid reality show. Oh my gosh, no, but it's the same thing. It's supply demand. There is a huge, huge supply of people that want these opportunities, and it's just the world, you just got to do it when those opportunities come up. When you got demoted, though, does that also decrease your pay or do they keep you at the same package?

Nope, that decreases your pay. And so, yeah, my 18-year-old brain who was living life on a salary that was more than I ever, like, I mean, literally an 18-year-old brain. brain. I just think you don't, you're fresh out of high school. At least for me, I was very lucky to have parents. I didn't work because we were at dance all day long. I never had a job growing up because literally my whole life was school and dance. So I had never paid for my own gas. I had hardly ever done my own laundry. Like my parents were so good and kind of us. They did so many things for us. So my little brain, not understanding how to save money, how to do all these things,

like going from one salary and then having that be cut more than in half more than in half more than in half yeah yeah wow i know and what's interesting is so when you're like the backroom dancer and dancing with stars it's called troop and when i say to you that it's a different kind of work but you put in more hours on troop sometimes than you do as a professional because you are basically on call 24-7. They could call, and they can do that with the professionals as well, but it's a little different because you have a celebrity partner. So it's like, you're really more on your celebrity partner schedule. Whereas if you're on troop, you're on the show's schedule. You are always on call, ready to go. So I found myself putting in more hours and more time. But yeah, it's a total,

it's a total pay cut. So, but it's still great. Like I don't want to be, I don't want to be ungrateful. But it's interesting because like, yeah, like you said, it's like you go from this to that. And then it's, it's an interesting thing that you have to like learn. And then I was already starting to just barely experience money and e-checks and saving and trying to like and paying for rent because I moved out to L.A. It's expensive. Especially in L. Oh my gosh.

I moved out to L.A. And started paying my own rent and got us got myself my own car and had car payments and just little things that like happened so fast. And then happened on a brain of like, okay, this is my salary now. And then nope, that's not anymore. this is what you're getting. And it's, it's interesting. It's really, I mean, I'm lucky that I had parents to guide me through that because I think that would have been a totally different story if I didn't have people in my life that were kind of like directing me and helping me through

that. So I was going to ask you, and I would assume I think I know the answer now for a pro dancer. And I think the answer is yes. But as a backup dancer when you're cut, like so if you look at like right now, but average like your, I think your median income in the United States around 56,000. Like, as a backup dancer, can you do that full-time? Or would you have to get another job, like side hustle? You mean do dancing with the stars? Like as a backup dancer, can you live off that? Or is that like a part is, I would assume as a pro you can live off that. Yes. As a backup dancer, back when I did it, yes, because there was two seasons a year. So you had a spring and a fall season. So that doubled your salary every year. So yeah, you totally good. But with one season a year,

no you I mean I guess depends on the kind of life that you live but living in LA paying rent buying food there paying for gas there like you'd be tight you'd be really tight you'd be really tight you'd want to probably have something else going on because and also what's scary is it's so terrifying because you're not guaranteed the next season ever ever you're under like you sign a contract you could be under contract for seven years like what I signed my first contract was a seven year contract yeah you are not guaranteed Do they have the option whether or not to use you every season? So you always kind of want to have something else going

because you just never know what's going to happen. You can't ever feel like a guarantee of anything. So in my opinion, for me, the way that I like to live and the way that I, like, the security I like to feel as a backup. If I was just a backup dancer, I'd want to have other things going on so that I know that no matter what happens with the show, I would be okay. Okay. But they only, I'm thinking right now, they only do this season once.

year, right? Yeah, just now. They only do it once a year now. So it's totally different. And that's what you're paid. You're paid per season then. So you would have been paid more if it was just yourself. Yeah. Basically, you get paid per week actually on the show. So as a troop dancer, you're working every single week. So you get paid every week on the show. As a professional dancer, you get paid per week. And when you get eliminated, you don't get paid anymore. Is that why? Because I was going to say, it is, it seems like one of the most, it's, it's a, it's fun. and everyone's nice. It's also hyper competitive. Like I remember the way Caitlin and Artem were going at, they were literally practicing as much as they could

within the limitation the show gives you to practice. And Caitlin was super competitive, but she was also saying Artem was extremely competitive. Is that why? Because you're incentivized to make it another week for payment? Yes. It's huge. I mean, I think it's both things. I think as dancers, we are naturally competitive people. We want to win. I don't care who you talk to. I don't care if they're the most chill, kind person ever. They want to win if they are a dancer. Like, that's just a thing that's like instilled in us from a young age. Some people are more like mean competitive and some are more like keep it nice competitive,

but we're all competitive. We all want to win. But then, yeah, on the show, it's your livelihood. It's now how you provide for your family. If you make an extra week, that's a couple weeks rent. Like, it's just helpful. So that is such a huge incentive thing because it's truly like you're getting paid more to make it further. So there's so many things that go into it. But I would say, especially for a lot of

us now who like have kids and have families, we're not just young, single anymore, like just live life on our own. It's totally, it's very much a driving factor in the show and why we want to do well. Right. And especially, yeah, especially if there's not two seasons anymore, right? Then it decreases, obviously that can't inflow. When you win the show, because I know you've won before, right? You won with Jordan Fisher? When you win, is there even a, like, do you get a higher bonus like for winning and going all the way? So there are bonuses that you get the longer you stay on the show. So everyone who is in the finale is getting a bonus. All the pros who are in the finale are getting a bonus, but the winner doesn't get any more than the other pros who are in the final. Which I actually

kind of appreciate it. We all do the same work. Yeah. It's not like so, but it would be fun to like have that extra incentive. But no. So everyone who is in every pro who makes it to the final is getting the same bonus as the other person. So yeah, if you win, you don't get any extra, which I liked because the times I've been in the finals and didn't win, I would have been bummed because I'm like, well, I still did the same amount of work as they did. So you'd want to get like, so yeah, that's kind of how it works. Totally. But I got to assume even though you're not getting like a paycheck for getting the mirror ball, having the mirror ball on your resume. And as a discussion point, that's got to help with like brand endorsements and opportunities, I would imagine. Absolutely. And that's

another driving force for wanting to make it further in the competition. Because the longer you make it in the competition, the longer your name is on television, the longer your, like, personality is being seen. And the more opportunity comes from it, the more attention and, like, kind of publicity you get from it. So that's also a big thing as well when your career is about people knowing you and being interested in the things that you're doing. So totally. Here's a wild fact I just heard from a musician. Didn't come on the show. Wish he would have come on the show. But he almost did an ABC, The Bachelor, or Bachelor, I was one of the two where he was like playing. a song for when they win, you know, like they get a date and they get a row. So he's, and then to

like show your name and you get to play your song and it's obviously a big promotion. So it was, I think it was a guarantee. So you, he would have had to pay 17,500 at the time to go on the show to get that. And I think it was a guarantee of like two minutes of air time. So I started thinking, I'm like, wow, that is mind blowing because if you equate two minutes of air time to around $20,000, To your point, Lindsay, if you're on television, ABC network, primetime TV, every minute you're on TV is thousands and thousands of dollars of value to your life, which is wild when you think about it like that. That's actually crazy and also crazy because I thought they paid the musicians to be on the show.

I mean, that's what I thought. Maybe it's changed recently. He said this was a few years ago, like three, four years ago. But no, because you think about it, they're putting your name there. It's a huge commercial. Yeah, I mean, it's such a big plug for your work. Right. So it's, and then I've also heard rumblings that like we would go to like create, like we were in Richmond, Virginia. And I'm like, why the hell are we in Richmond, Virginia? Then I've heard rumblings and I have absolutely no idea if this is concrete. So this is an opinion. But if you like certain cities like that will actually pay the show to come if they showcase it. Again, an opinion, not a fact, but that's what I've heard. That honestly, there's something about Richmond, Virginia, because every single time we've done the Dancing with the Stars tour, we've always. headline in Richmond. Like that is our first stop.

Interesting. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's where it is this year. You'll have to you'll have to check me on that. Okay. I need to turn these opinions and start doing research and find out facts. Richmond's got some way to play with. All right. One thing I got to ask you about two, I was curious about like while I, of course, while I'm seeing Caitlin on the show, I'm starting to think of all the business aspects. You went in as a pro, back up now pro. But I, you know, there are pros right now from that represent countries all over Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia, all over. And I'm wondering, like, from their vantage point, you didn't strategically, like, have this focus of being on dancing with the

stars. Do you think, like, I don't know, like, a Gleb or an art, like, was, do you think, like, their goal was like, I need to get, and it'd be great to have a mind to know this, but, like, going to United States and being on Dancing with Stars, that's, like, the ultimate dream come true. Is that how dancers you think or them specifically would view that operational? I think here's the thing. I mean, because I guess looking back, like, growing up, I watched the show. Like, if you were a dancer, that's the show you watched. You watched Dancing with the Stars and you thought, like, that would be the ultimate dream. Like, when you're a young kid, like, what do you want to do? Oh, I want to go to dance with the stars. Like, that was like your pipe dream that everybody had. Everybody had it. But it felt like such pipe dream that most people wouldn't necessarily say, like, that's what I'm doing because it didn't feel attainable. But yeah, I would imagine. Because they, I know, so Artem and Gleb actually had an interesting start because they actually did the British version of Dancing with the Stars, which is, it's strictly come dancing. And that, it's actually huge. Like, it is huge. You think Dancing with the Stars is big here. Gosh, it is huge in the UK. So they actually started on that. And then I think it was just kind of a natural progression. But talking with them with Emma and Sasha, like Sharna, hearing what their kind of end goals were, is they all wanted to move to the U.S. and be able to work here, I think there's something really special about the opportunity that comes with being a dancer in this country. Like there's a lot of really cool things that can you can do with that career.

So I know for sure that that's something that they had always kind of wanted and aspired to do. So yeah, I'm sure that was definitely something on their mind. I mean, it's so cool to see a show like that have representation from literally all over the world. So I know. It's really cool. Like I think it's like I love it too because I've gotten to like be involved and like, get to know so many different cultures. And it's just, it's really cool. I think it sets the show apart because it just brings a little bit of awareness and like education. It's really cool.

One thing I skipped over that I should, because contract negotiation is huge. That's fascinating that they can give you a seven-year contract. But there's an option, of course, that at any point you can be released, right? So it's not like a, like you think about like some of the sports contracts, right, like an NFL contract, NBA contract. It's a certain year period. And there are guarantees that they're committed to so it doesn't work like that they'll have an option to because i had heard that there's been dancers that i know of that's told me they had a seven-year contract and they're no longer with the show so they obviously have an option to move in whatever direction they shall choose yeah yeah yeah crazy well it's interesting because it's funny i mean i like i said i started the show and i was 18

so i was sent a contract for a dream job that i've always wanted to have and i didn't even read the contract. I literally did not even read the contract. Like I just said, yep. I'm like, I'm just of course going to say, yeah, I'm not going to put up a stink. I'm not going to be like, oh, let me get my lawyer involved. I'm going to say yes. But then I look back and I'm like, oh, seven years, seven years of my life, which I mean, I wouldn't have wanted to do anything else for those seven years. But it's really funny because they get you when you're young and eager and then you're looped in. So I actually was just able to like, my contract was up about a year and a half ago. So it's a whole new story because now I'm more educated. I know what contracts are. I'm much more like knowledgeable on things

that I should say yes to and not say yes to. So then that's where kind of the negotiations come into play. But it's really funny how like I look back on that. I'm like, wow, I would have signed anything. Like we're really, really lucky. Any piece of paper to dance. I'm it. We're really lucky. There wasn't anything sketchy in there because I was signing it. And I had no idea. Have faith in ABC. They know they're good or what they're good for the word. I know. They do. They know how to get you. That's for sure. But you can then. So once that contract's up, you'll have the ability to like with any contract. You can negotiate for yourself, right? Yes. Yeah. That's what I've done. So I did that with my most recent one. And it was, it was kind

of fun. And like, I actually ended up doing it myself. That was something that I like really wanted to do. It's just like, you know what? Like, I got this job by myself. This is my thing. Like, I want to be able to handle this. And it was cool because I think it would have, I mean, I think any earlier, I would have been too timid and scared, but it was cool to really, like, do that for myself and get the things that I thought I deserved. So it was really, it was cool. That's awesome. And we have a little bit more time with you. And I do want to get into the entrepreneurial projects. But before I pass it over, if anyone heard you saying that you represented yourself and negotiated for yourself, do you have any like tips or tricks or like one lesson learned from negotiating for yourself that

maybe someone might be in the process of negotiating maybe an annual raise or something like that? Anything that you did? Well, okay, so I've, the only thing I negotiated myself was my dance with the stars contract. Everything else I do, I have an awesome, incredible manager that I use. So that's one thing. But for that specific job, I just, it felt like such a personal part of my life because it had been something that I've done for so long. And I think the biggest thing when it comes to negotiating is know your worth before you go

into conversations, know what you will say yes to and what you won't say yes to. Because I think if you hold your ground, it's. then there's no other option. And if you know how much you are worth and if you know, like, I am worthy of this, I am worthy of the things that I feel I deserve, then the conversation is going to go much differently. I also think that negotiating needs to come with a little bit of respect as well.

Like, I think you have to have respect and understand that you can't just say your demands and then you're just done. But one thing that I've started trying to do, I can't remember where I saw this, but basically you say what you want and then what you do is you take like five, five seconds and you don't say anything. And if there's an awkward silence, you don't fill it with anything. You just let them gather it and let them really like resonate and understand that you're serious about what you're saying and about the demands you're making. And I feel like it gives you like a second to be calm and like to really get confident about what you said and then you

move forward from there. So that's kind of my trick. If I ever like need to ask for something and I'm nervous about it. That's kind of what I'll do. I love that. Don't be afraid of silence. Know your value before you get in the conversation. Those are really, really good tips. All right. So we have had on the show, we have had a CEO. of one of the largest influencing companies out there. We even had one kid who, Harry Jousey, wild story, but he ends up going on too hot to handle, becomes an influencer,

breaks into the million-plus range per year for influencing. It's projecting next year as a goal to make $10 million at 24 with influencing. Just crazy. A wild episode. Everyone should listen to that. But I want to talk, you obviously, your career is dancing,

dancing with the stars, you've been on several shows, and you've been a pro for a while, but then you've also built this social media platform. And from it, you've done entrepreneurial projects. I saw you did the Ivy City capsule collection. You have some products you own yourself. So I just want to talk a little bit about when did you start getting into those businesses and what was some of the thought process behind creating more income for yourself?

Yeah. So this actually started, I mean, I always, once I started on Dancer of the Stars and once social media influencing kind of became a thing. I dabbled in like the promotional type stuff and like the ads on Instagram and working with different brands. I did it a little bit, but I can't say I really dove into it about until about two and a half years ago. This was actually around the time that I, me and my husband decided we wanted to start trying to get pregnant. And I realized that my life was shifting because trying to get pregnant meant well, then I probably can't do dancing with the stars. I'll probably miss a season. And that's a huge change. That's a huge change in my income for a year. So I

sat there and was like, okay, well, if I'm going to do this, I either need to decide if I want to take this career in a different direction or if I want to do something else completely. And I really had so many things that I was passionate about, but truthfully just didn't know how to make it happen. And I actually found this incredible management company. She's pretty much, my manager is my best friend, which I think is such an important thing. If you're going to work with other people, make sure you have a good relationship with them, make sure that they're people that see your vision, know who you are personally, because then they're going to help your visions come to life. while also making sure that you stay true to who you are. So it was about, it was probably like two months before I got pregnant, actually, where I was like, you know what, we're going all in on this. I'm going to take this year and try everything that I've ever wanted to do. And if it doesn't work, at least I know. But I don't ever want to sit back and think like, well, crap. Like, what if it would have been great?

And I also realized that I was in a really prime point in my life where I had a name. I had things going. I had attention and I was like, I need to capitalize on this. I need to capitalize on the things that are going on. So I really just made a run for it. And that year was filled with so many new projects, so many new things. And it was honestly looking back, I think the best year that I've ever had in my career. It wasn't the most money making career, or money making year, but it was a year where

things got kick started to the point where now I feel so excited and comfortable saying that like I chose to do dancing with the stars this year because I wanted to, not because I had to. I'm a new mom. My life is totally different, but I've been able to set other things up to a point where, yeah, it wasn't a necessity to do dancing with the stars. It was something that I was like, you know what, that sounds really fun. I'd like to go back and do that show again because I missed it while I was pregnant. So I think it just, it was a bunch of little things that led me to that decision. But at the end of the day, I realized it was, it honestly stemmed from the fact that I didn't ever want to look back and regret and be like, well, what if that project would have been incredible and what if this product would have been amazing? and what if this could like I just didn't want to have any what if so I just said you know what we're just going to go for it yeah I mean that's the dream to be in a position like that professionally where you're like I'm going to do this because I love it and I want to give it a shot and it's not that there's a necessity that I have to go do it and for anyone listening out there it is there's a jewelry business right a clothing line and then a cosmetic line is that correct well yeah so

I actually so I have a workout program that I started last year so workout program that you can do all the workouts online with me I have dressed I have a workout clothing collection called Five the Label. I just recently launched a new tanning lotion with volition. So it's been really fun. I feel like I've just been honestly just doing a bunch of passion projects. Like I'm like, if there's a product that I personally want, I'm like, you know what I want to do? I want to find somebody who wants to create it with me.

And the products that I've been doing have all been with existing brands, which has actually been really fun because it's been something that I can do with people who already know what they're doing and will handle the back end of things. And I get to promote the product and help create it and put the vision behind it. And it's been a really, really good experience. If you do partnerships like this or you can pitch some type of value add, whether it's promotion or a skill set, you're limiting your risk and potentially might not even have to put an upfront investment. Is that correct? That's exactly it. And that's the mentality is I, so when I started, when I said, we're just going to go for this, I decided, because I kind of went back and forth. I'm like,

well, do I create the products myself? Do I put in all the money? Because yes, if you put in all the money, the opportunity to make more is there. But the opportunity to fail and to lose a lot more is also there. So my mentality was, why don't we dabble? Why don't we find brands that we love, find products that we're passionate about and give it a shot and see how it goes with no risk at all. No risk because it's all it's on the brand. I'm just there to help promote and to do all of this. And that's kind of what my mentality was, was let's see where that goes, because then I can decide if in the end, I want to end up doing my own thing and creating my own brand. But it's been so great because I've been able to work with brands who have taught me so much, who have such good

visions that I'm so passionate about what they do already. And that's really key. If you're going to work with brands and put your name behind it, make sure you absolutely love the brand in its extent because you're then becoming a little bit of like a spokesperson for that brand and you want to make sure you believe in everything that they do. It's so well said, right? Because then become an extension of the brand and whatever their reputation is or your reputation is can cross over it's so important to do that due diligence and we've had people come on you know they're all walks of life some people are like i only will put my capital up for my business and i will get behind it and that's what makes it drive and you have other guys like the founder of netflix who we interviewed

he's like other people's money o pm use other people's money limit limit your risk o pm other people's money so so guys who are you listening they're so many ways to find size hustle or start your own business in 2022. You can use other people's money or you can do it yourself. And so you've seen Lindsay's strategy. Lindsay, I got two more questions for you. And then we're going to get into your trading secrets. So something about your career track or maybe financial management or anything that you can offer listeners that they couldn't find on a YouTube or Google or in a textbook or in a classroom. But the two questions I have left. The first one is I saw in 2008, you and Whitney Carson, maybe the year was wrong. But I have that

you and Whitney Carson made appearance in high school. musical three. Is this correct? Yes. Okay. So this was before Dancing with the Stars? This was before Dance of the Stars. So they actually filmed high school musical in Salt Lake City. So we both grew up in Utah and they filmed it like 30 minutes from my house. And I mean, we were, I think we were maybe 12. And it was like the coolest thing to come to town. Like we were so excited that high school musical was filming here. And they didn't even really do auditions. They just did outreach to different dance studios in this area. and said like, hey, if you have dancers, we'd love to use them as background dancers for the show.

So we went and it was the funny, like looking back, the funniest thing ever, because if we were to ever do that gig today, we would be like, no. We sat on set for three days straight, 14 hours plus sat and maybe worked for like 15 minutes here and there. We got paid $100 for three days of like 14 plus hours. And guess what? We were stoked. We were like, we were so excited.

We thought it was the coolest thing that it ever happened. But then it was, like, looking back on that, and I remember how stoked we were as little kids. Like, we thought that was the coolest thing in the world. So it's really funny looking back at all of that. But yeah, that was before we did anything on TV. That was definitely, actually was our first, like, TV movie experience. So if I asked you, what was the worst deal,

but most rewarding deal you ever took, it's probably $100, three days to work, high school musical three. A hundred percent. One hundred percent. That little glimmer of hope of seeing Zach Efron was all I needed to be a dancer for the rest of my life. That is amazing. And as you're saying it too, I'm also thinking like, what is in the water in Utah? You got Whitney Carson yourself.

You got Derek off. I mean, everyone, like, it's just unbelievable that you guys all came from the state of Utah. It really is pretty crazy that we all kind of like started in the same place. But I will go back. I think it's because going back to what I said of us training in all styles, I think that really opened up doors for all of us individually. That's really cool. All right. So last question, I forgot to address it in Dancing with the Stars, but of course with Caitlin going on tour, I got to have some idea. I'm just curious how that works. A couple pieces with this. One, is it like the goal to get selected as one of the pros to go on the

tour? And if you go on the tour, is that similar kind of payment to Dancing with the Stars? or is it a whole different group that's managing it and you're negotiating differently? Like, tell me a little bit about that aspect of the tour, especially, you know, knowing Caitlin's going to be gone for two and a half months. My curiosity's running. I know. Tour is so much fun. And here's the thing.

I think they actually have always, there's never been a time where a pro that wanted to go on tour didn't get to go on tour. They pretty much like want anybody they can take. And there's always like one or two people who can't go. So it leaves room for everybody that wants to go. So that's good because you're not really worried like, oh, they're not going to want me. They'll want you.

They love to have as many of us as they can. And then as far as like payment goes, it's a totally different company. So it's all different. It's new contract. It's new negotiations. So that's something that everybody does individually and it's completely separate from the show,

which is kind of nice because for some of us who were on contract for seven years where there was no more negotiating. Like when you did the tour in between, that's where you could kind of like put the work in and really negotiate for yourself and get what you deserve. So yeah. But it's crazy. because it's totally different. It's just, it's a completely different company and everything.

That's wild. And I'm here, you know, as Caitlin's do and I talk to Joe, I'm like, because there, I, with my schedule, I can't go to much, but there might be like one weekend that I could go on the bus and catch up. And so I'm asking Joe about it and how everything goes. He's like, dude, I mean, if literally, if I could even just get a shower in like a locker room at one of the places that we were performing, I would do it. And he's like, no one is allowed to take a number two on that bus. I was like, oh, Caitlin's in for it. Here's the thing. The tour life, I think people think, like, ooh, dancing with the stars, tour.

It's so glamorous. No, it is not glamorous at all. You shower, like, I would say 75% of your showers are in a random theater or gymnasium or weird. And maybe 40% of those showers actually have hot, solid running water. The rest of maybe sometimes a trickle. Like, it really is so funny because you're going to these theaters across. the country and some of them are super new and some of them are so old and you just never know what you get and then yeah there is no pooping on the bus that is a big no-no so in all that done before wow

i think i'm just going to go to joe's like here's what you got to do here's the trading secret you know you want to go to the show that's at like a nice casino or hotel because we could stay at a hotel room that night i'm like okay got to do you have to go so my husband would come and visit and like i'm on the road And there were a couple nights where he had to sleep in the bunk with me on the tour bus. And it was a tight squeeze for sure. But go to the Mahegan Sun shows. They're so much fun. It's at a casino.

And I'm pretty sure they do like two or three nights every time. And you get to hang out at the casino. It's a really nice hotel. You get a hotel room. So that's where you've got to go for sure. Lindsay, I'm so glad my intuition is right. Because I heard this from Joe, I swear. I printed the entire, the whole schedule out.

And the first thing I circled, based on what Joe told me, me, boom, Mohegan Sun. So I'm glad we nailed that. A great choice. You're going to have so much fun. It honestly is real. That's my favorite stop on the tour because you're in the same place for a couple days. There's everything there. It's so much fun. Unbelievable. Lindsay, this has been so fantastic to hear your story learning all about the industry of dancing and the way that you can escalate your career and take detours and do things that are entrepreneurial too. But we can't leave without getting your trading secrets. So one trading secret about your career, your navigation, negotiation, financial struggle, successes, what can you leave us with? I think like when it comes to trying to figure out what

you want to do with your career and where you want to take it, if something doesn't feel right to you or feel true to who you are, just don't do it. Like really don't do it. I think so many people, especially in the entertainment industry, try to force themselves into this like position of who they think they should be for the world that they're trying to pursue. And that's the biggest mistake you can make because then you're losing what makes you different than other people. And I think eventually, maybe you'll get the job you think you want, but it won't be the right job for you. So don't force yourself into any, don't like try to be something you're not, be who you are, do the things that feel good and feel naturally who you are. And it's going to be pretty crazy

to see where that takes your career. Because I think that when you put yourself in positions where you feel like you can be true to who you are, things will happen to you that things will happen for you that you never thought were possible. It is such, such a good point. And I think, too, it will create such a cap for your career when you are living through what you're thinking you're supposed to be as opposed to what you really are. So I have a book coming out in April. It's called The Restart Roadmap because for 10 years in corporate banking, anything you told me to do, I would do it. I would dress the way I was supposed to dress. I was acting the way my title said I should act. I was speaking the way I should speak in the banker tone. And I'd come home just miserable.

And to your point, like if you trust that intuition because your intuition will guide you in the right direction. And if you fight against it, I think inevitably you will crack. You will. Yeah. And it's like if you fight against it, wherever you end up being, are you ever going to be really happy with it if it doesn't feel true to who you are? It's like, cool, you got the job that you wanted, but do you even enjoy it?

Right. What's the point? Exactly. Crazy stuff. Well, Lindsay, this has been absolutely amazing. We really appreciate your time. You did talk about your jewelry company and you now have a tanning product out. Let everyone know where they can find you on social media and all the businesses that you have

going on. Yeah. So my Instagram is Lynn's Arnold. And then you can get my tanning product on volition beauty.com. You can get my workout clothing on five the label.com. My dresses on ivycityco.com. And I'm trying to think of anything else that I've missed. Oh, and my workout program, go to move withlens.com to sign up for that.

So that's where everything is. Perfect time going into the new year. That is exact. I need all that, especially I haven't seen the sun in a little bit. I might need that tanic solution. Yeah. I didn't go on my husband's thigh because I was like really curious to see what it looks like so it can go on guys now it works all right we're in yeah well lindsay thank you so much

for your time i'm going to go order that tanning lotion right now and we will we will talk soon and we really appreciate everything awesome thank you so much for having me ding ding ding ding we are closing in the bell with the curious canadian david ardoin oh what a great episode you know what very relevant too right lindsay arnold she's from dancing with the we talk dancing with the stars tour and not only do we have the curious canadian here David arduin the one the only but david and i were just battling grinding back and forth between the live show in rochester and the bars in rochester for what was the most gut-wrenching buffalo bills defeat we've ever seen so not only we talk with dancing with stars we just live

through some dance with the stars so the timing's perfect david arduin let me kick it to you what do you thinking. Yeah, I'm still getting over the heartbreak of the Bills lost and the hangover that resulted in the Bills Lost and the drinking agony behind it. Unbelievable navigation by you and I finding Dancing with the Stars Live Tour to a bar, back to the live tour, back to the bar. But I will say, it was really hard to leave Dancing with the Stars, even though the Bills game was on because it was like edge of my seat entertaining. It was unbelievable. I'll never forget this image of me looking down on you, like looking down on the row and your hat wasn't all the way on. know when you have like a winter cap guys it's like just off the top of your head and this winter

cap was flying everywhere back and forth because david was dancing so hard and head bopping like a machine and dancing with the stars they put on a good performance uh it was interesting to be at the performance and see it congrats to all them but also behind the scenes which was fascinating obviously we talked about that with uh lindsay but she's right from what i have you know heard like it's not all glitz and glam like there's a lot of grinding those buss is you saw the bus. The buses are small. They move quickly. They go city to city. Maybe checking a hotel, maybe not. One of the craziest things to me, David, was when they leave. Like, they leave at like 1 a.m. or 4 a.m. right? So the show will finish, but they have to time when the bus

leaves next. So they'll just be hanging around. They might even go to sleep before the bus starts moving. And then the bus will move at like 1 a.m. and they'll park at like 5 a.m. and have the whole next day. Yeah, it reminded me of some junior hockey trips that I had. But But, yeah, kind of like, we saw KB and saw her after, and then she was, we didn't get to hang out with her at all. Like, she just got on the bus and that was it. So, yeah, they move quick, no pooping on the bus. The fact that we found out that's a rule, I'm glad to see that that's still in effect because that's just a no-go. But people, those buses, they are cold, especially when you're trekking through western New York in the wintertime.

They get wet. The wet just follows you everywhere you go. It's in your sheets. It's, it's incredible. So to be able to put on a performance like that in those conditions that they're traveling in all the time, it was incredible. I highly, highly suggest going to sea dancing with a Stars Live tour. It was phenomenal entertainment. And a good amount of male to female attendance in that.

Good, good ratio. The other thing, too, David, is you mentioned the no number two things. So, well, first of all, I want to touch on this. Caitlin had to leave right after the show. That's the only time, which sucks. It's the only time they had to leave right after the show because they had, oh, what's the, it's called like a ghost day or something. When they don't have a show in the next day,

they have to get there as soon as possible. That's one, two, so when you play junior hockey and you were traveling on the bus, that was a consistent rule too. You couldn't take a number deuce? Oh, number deuce was a max fine. What's the, like, what do you mean max fine? It's like pay people out?

Depending on the league or the team, but like at least like a $20 fine, $50 fine. Oh, God. All right. So you could do it, but it's just like it hurts your wallet and then you just have like no respect. Now before we, that's fair. All right. Now, before we get off the tour and into the episode, give me just, like, one takeaway. I mean, Buffalo Bills. Fuck me, right? I mean...

Yeah. Self-admittedly, like, I just moved to Western New York two years ago, like, full-time. So I'm a pretty new Buffalo Bills fan. If that's what you guys have been putting up with for the last 30 years, like, I'm happy to wear some of that for you because you guys don't deserve that. Like, I woke up sad the next day, like genuinely sad and upset. It's just gut-runching, man. We've had, we've had. at it since the early 90s, four Super Bowls in a row, you lose. One wide right field goal for the win. Back in 1999, Buffalo Sabers had the no goal with Brett Hall and Stanley Cup overtime, which now the rulebook has been changed because of that, right? Tennessee Titans forward lateral. It just doesn't stop. We've had some heartbreaks in the postseason the last few years,

but this was just, it's tough, man. There's a finance podcast, at least if you're an investment type guy, at least you can be happy about your investment in Josh Allen because that guy is a super stud. Investment in Josh Allen and also I've gotten smart enough to like slow down my betting against the Buffalo Bills. And I would say that I didn't bet nearly as much as I normally would have just given how emotionally invested. So anyway, we'll let that go. Buffalo Bills are on. Dancing with the Stars tour we've been to behind the scenes and in the scenes. Lindsay Arnold, what else you got for me, David. Yeah, I think we got a touch on just how cutthroat dancing with the stars is. Can we talk about that for a second? Yeah, when she, the tough show, I was blown away when she was

telling me how she was promoted as the youngest dancer ever and immediately demoted for four years. Like that's intense. I just want to put myself in her shoes like 18 years old. She's graduating high school. She goes on so you think you can dance that parlay's into dancing with the stars. Now she's moving to L.A. She's a pro. She gets the contract. She's everything is good. She gets the apartment. She buys the car. And then she gets half her salary cut. And she's 19, 20 years old. How do you navigate that speed bump in life financially, emotionally? I thought that was like the most cutthroat thing ever. And then grind it out for four years as a backup. It's honestly, like I think about ego too. Like my, I've gotten smarter with trying to not lead

with ego. But that's taking maturity in age. 19, you get cut like that. You just probably want to be like, all right, I'm the youngest, but I'll go do something else. And for her to sit in there and grind. I mean, this actually brings me back to you, David, because you coach these 16 and 18 year olds every day, and you this week I know had to make cuts. Like, have you ever seen someone that you've cut actually look back probably at you cutting them? And that's the best thing that ever happened to them? Yeah, 100%. And I just had to do that today, actually, tonight. It's the worst thing you can do is kind of break a 16, 17 year old kid's heart. But everything that I try and do as a human being element and you don't want to put good people in bad situations and if they're not having

success in your situation, you just can't be bigheaded enough to think that it's the only situation that this kid could have success in. So if you truly care about the kid, you find them a better home, you find them a better place and you hope that they and you want to see them succeed because you don't ever want to see a kid fail. Her story and her situation was incredible in terms of the relation that it has to sports, especially hockey. Getting sent down to the minors is like a backup dancer getting your salary cut in half like trying to get promoted like going through the grind like working twice as hard as the pros as a backup dancer but getting half the reward is just like a role player on a team or something like really uh just so

relatable for me in that sense and i think the one thing to the big takeaway with lindsay is when she said she took ownership she's like honestly it was one of the better things that happened to me because i wasn't ready i wasn't prepared i didn't know the show well and it goes back to what her trading secret was, was that if, like, you're fighting against what you're doing, if there's your intuition and your gut is saying you're in the wrong place, you're doing the wrong thing, eventually it's going to lead you in the wrong direction and catch up with you. And so to me, there's a lot of takeaways from the fact she was demoted, but still knew that she was where she needed to be and eventually got there and now kills it and has won

a mirror ball. And so I think there's a lot of takeaways there. Like if you are pushing, back, but you're pushed back in the direction you know you're meant to be, it's all worth it. And inevitably, you're going to be there. And she even said, too, like, in her negotiations, it was she self-negotiated after that seven-year absurd contract, ABC just getting right in you where you're young and don't read contracts. Like, you know, after all that time, and she's put in four years as a backup dancer, a pro to then a pro again, like she knows her worth. She went in those conversations to get her worth. One thing that I thought was an incredible takeaway where my jaw dropped in this was I couldn't believe

that the pros on the show don't make money after they get cut. Isn't that nuts? I think it's nuts too. Here's why I think it's nuts. Like, even watching the show is because think about the crap draw of who your partner is.

Remember that like the older, I'm blanking on his name, the guy who played karate kid or you get like a Carol Baskin. Like, you could be the best dancer in the planet and you're not going to go far. Like you're not. So if you get stuck with a shitty partner, like you know instantly that you're not going to make, I don't know, however many, but weeks, like four weeks of bonuses, five weeks of bonuses?

It's actually nuts. And I wonder how they pick the partners. But even on top of that, do you think that the producers on the show have like, hey, this person can't get cut for the first six weeks because they're too important for ratings? Do you think that that happens on the show? Because if it does, and that pro gets stuck with, or that pro is with one of those people who can't get cut, that's a little bit of a money advantage there. Do you think that that happens? Listen, I am the ultimate TV conspiracist.

I think it's all fake after being on the show. But I'll tell you this, like my mom's watched that show forever. Caitlin, of course, has been in the show. If that stuff happens, it certainly doesn't happen at ground level. No one knows. Like, you know, Caitlin and everyone, you talk to anyone from that show, and my understanding is they believe for sure that it strictly votes. I don't think that's the case.

I truly don't. I think there is much more that plays into it. I will put this on the record. I have zero information, zero to justify that. Other than my gut tells me, the dollars and cents behind every episode is way too important when it relates to ratings in Democratic. graphic of watching for them not to give that consideration. But I could be wrong.

That's strictly an opinion. Let me flip the script. Are there contestants on the Bachelor or Bachelorette that the lead cannot kick off because producer says they're too important for ratings or storylines? Again, an opinion. I have no information on this. If I had insider information on this, I wouldn't be able to speak to it. But I don't.

And so what I'll tell you is there has, it has, my opinion is that it has to be that case. I mean, you have to see someone who's generating good storylines and good ratings and have to say to yourself, this person has to stay on as long as it makes sense. That's my guess. I think, like, again, back to my opinion, if you're saying, like, do you think the lead picks someone or the final two because of that? Hell no, that's my opinion. But I think, like, there's always someone that's going to stir the pot up that, like,

how could you not keep them on? I mean, you always bring yourself to back, like, what would I do as a business leader? Of course I would keep that person on. Drive the ratings, keep them going. If they want to keep acting like that and we're getting views, keep them going. Yeah, I think for sure, all those drama stirs that they cast to maybe, you might be a good villain. Let me just put you in every situation for you to be a villain. And then they'd be the villain and then they're around for three more episodes.

I think that that's not coincidence. What do you think about the whole discussion about certain cities potentially paying to be on The Bachelor and stuff like that? Did you have any take on that? Yeah, I mean, it would make sense. Just like you talked about the musical guests paying to get that airtime. Like, if you're Richmond, Virginia and you're showing all these spots in Richmond, Virginia on the most watched show on cable television, that's good press. That's good PR. I would, you know, we talk about influencer marketing.

Like, this is, what are you going to wait for a commercial on The Bachelor? No, you're going to be on the Bachelor watching and people going on their dates and seeing those things. But what was your best memory about Richmond, Virginia, Jay? Richmond, Virginia, for anyone that doesn't know, I was on, I think most people listening is probably know at some capacity. I was on The Bachelorette season 14. I got my first one-on-one in Richmond, Virginia. And for my date, this was pretty cool.

The Bachelorette was his name Becca, Becca Cufferin, and she takes me to a bar in Richmond, Virginia. And I've been in this little Bachelorette bubble for six weeks, no phone, no friends, no internet, no TV, no nothing. And boom, I got that. surprised by the one and only, the Curious Canadian, before he was a Curious Canadian, Dave Arden, another buddy, Hawk Jameson, and John Tico the third. They flew in from all areas. And wow, that was literally the best part of my journey. I think that we need to do on

one of our restart happy hours. I think we need to tell everybody about that trip and the details behind it. Because it's too funny. I mean, it is an absolute hilarious story. I love that idea. David. So if you guys have any interest, we have a happy hour every month and we do live podcast like the one we just had, you can come on while Lindsay's talking and much, much more. Just shoot me an email, restart at jason tardick.com and let me know you're interested in the all access membership. So David, that's what we'll do. We will have a happy hour and we'll tell everyone that's a member all the inside scoop because I know you guys party pretty good the night before, right? Oh, I missed my flight. 6 a.m. I miss my flight the next day. I have an epic. I have

Another just truly epic story about that. Details to come. Just email me if you're interested. We're also a finance podcast, and I did get mailed a check. You got paid to be on that. Yeah. We got mailed check from the Bachelorette

and I got after that, which I'll tell you the amount at the Happy Air. Wow. Yeah, it was hilarious. I still have the check because I think it's the funniest thing ever. It says Bachelorette season 16. For the listeners of trading secrets

that aren't going to be members, let's just give an idea, less than 500? less than 500. Okay, there you go. You know it's less than 500. You want to know how much it was and all the details.

Come join our membership. Restart at Jason Tardick.com. David, before we wrap, I got to give you one more swing. Anything else from this episode that's a takeaway for you or something you want to talk through before we ring it up?

I was curious that dancing with the stars tour is totally different from the TV show in terms of production companies and I know KB's been on both. So I'm just curious to hear when she's off the show. KB was great seeing you.

I'm curious to hear the experiences, how you're treated as a talent on the show, any financial differences, any of those stuff. Just another reason for us to get KB on, Jay. Oh, I like that. I get KB on. Maybe we could ask her about some of the differences, company versus Tor, if we could ever be so lucky to land her as a guest one day. I might be able to crack that code.

I get DMs all the time from Trading Secrets fans. Do you think Jay will ever get KB on the show? I'm like, he's, he's too busy to get on a schedule. Tough code to crack. but that would be a good one and I know that when the Bachelor did their whole Bachelor tour do you remember they they like did that tour

with Bachelor whatever the hell it's called I forgot what it's called but I do know live on stage or whatever yeah live on stage there was an investor who bought those rights and so he paid a large sum and then he's got to do all the work and I think the show will have like an input on like who hosts it and like if they have guests come but other than that it's pretty much run up

to the show runners so it'd be cool to get one of those people on one of those people that buy the rights of the show just to get their take on the whole entire business, you know? Yeah, it's fascinating. Great show. Dance Be the Stars. Go check it out.

Go check it out. It was awesome. All right. What a great episode from Lindsay Arnold. All the Things Dancing from her mother starting her own studio to all the different forms of dance. Mirror Ball, Demotions, promotions, her own businesses. Hope you guys really enjoyed this episode. If you did, please remember to give us a five-star rating.

Please leave us a review. We're reading all of them. We greatly, greatly appreciate it. And we have a great lineup of guests coming. We got Alex Rodriguez coming. We got Lala Kent coming. We got corporate Natalie coming. We got many, many more.

Who's your favorite guest that's coming up? Mama Jurt. Oh, Heidi Dimeleo. So, every day I'm on TikTok. I'm cruise TikTok is just what I do. I see a Dixie or Charlie video. I'm like, I ask about this. I just have to ask about this.

There you go. The guests are coming in hot. We hope you guys continue to listen, and we hope that you thought this was another episode of Trading Secrets. That was one you couldn't afford to miss. We'll see you next Monday. Thank you.