Trading Secrets - 42: The Tinder Swindler: The Real Truth Top Netflix Documentary Doesn't Cover with Cecilie Fjellhøy

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

In this week’s episode, Jason enters the world of crime documentaries with Cecilie Fjellhøy who was one of the victims in Netflix’s The Tinder Swindler – a nonfiction story of a serial fraudster and the women he scammed – which was the first documentary to claim the number 1 spot on the Netflix list of its most popular films worldwide for several consecutive weeks. She shares exclusive details about the investigation, the timeline of events, Simon “The Swindler”’s manipulative behavior in their relationship, her recovery process after realizing the truth, and many more details that weren’t shared in the documentary. We learn how the banking system differs around the world and how Cecilie was able to take out many loans given her credit profile before and after the scandal. How much money did Simon steal from Cecilie before being exposed? Jason and Cecilie take a deeper look into the various accomplices responsible for the series of fraudulent events, including Simon’s ex wife, business partner, and arguably the credit card companies for their essential role in the scandal. This is another episode you can't afford to miss.   Pre-order The Restart Roadmap: Rewire and Reset Your Career TODAY! Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'll tell you what, you better buckle up for this episode because you're going to see emotions like you haven't seen before on Trading Secrets. You will see highs, you will see yells. you will see blood boiling and you even see tears and moments of silence and breakdowns

because yes, the Tinder Swindler is a documentary on Netflix that is out there to serve for education and also entertainment but this is an entertainment today this is real life

this is a person who is taken for what now is $300,000 and you'll hear her story. If you haven't seen Tinder Swindler on Netflix, make sure you give it a watch because there is a lesson you will take out of it

that you could apply to your life or your parents' life or your partner's life or your kid's life or your friend's life that will put them in a safer position. It's a very, very challenging story, a very, very difficult one to endure, but it's one that we have to address. And so today we have Cecilia on. Now, before we bring on Cecilia and ring in the opening bell,

I just want to let you know the restart roadmap is now out for pre-sale, officially out. And we had such a great first week. We were trending number one in motivation and speaking. And if you could do me the biggest favor in the world, the biggest compliment I could get is if you go to Amazon and you type in the restart roadmap and you put. pre-order a hard copy, it would mean the world to me. This is a book for anyone rethinking the most

critical life choices in the slightest way or in the most material way, from where you work, the industry in, where you live in why, if you're unsure in the slightest bit of even managing a relationship with your boss, negotiating for yourself, or taking a massive next step into a whole different field. Professionally, personally, if you need the slightest bit of a restart, this book has eight strategies to help you do so. And you might use all eight strategies,

but I guarantee you'll at least implement one. Pre-order now, just go to Amazon, the restart roadmap. Check it out. And thank you for being here for another episode of Trading Secrets. Hopefully one you can't afford to miss. Let's ring in the bell.

Whether or not you're in the dating pool or on the apps, you most definitely have heard of the dating app called Tinder, where many spend hours a day swiping through thousands to find the one, which is exactly what our guest today thought she had found. When in actuality, out of Tinder 75 million monthly active users, she found a true con artist. He went by Simon Leviv, and he was pretending to be a well-off jet setter and son of Israeli businessman, the king of diamonds, Leviv. Cecile fell in love with a man who was scamming woman by taking them out, showing them this super luxurious lifestyle. Champagne, private jets, Rolls Royce, security, drivers, everything and anything, gifts, in making them fall in love with him. When they trusted him, he would then tell them that he was in serious trouble

with a dangerous man, convince them to pay him in cash, open credit cards, take out loans, and then use that cash to pay for other women's outings and gifts. It was the definition of a Ponzi scheme. And we're not talking a little money here and there. We're talking hundreds, of thousands of dollars for each women.

When Cecilia and the other women found out, they were determined to bring him down. Fast forward to now, there is a trending hit Netflix documentary that is all over Netflix and not only United States, but the whole world. And on top of it, Simon, for the first time, has just spoke out last week.

If you haven't seen it yet on Netflix, you definitely should. But either way, we're so lucky to have her here with us to share her story. Cecilia, thank you so much for being on Trading Secrets today. We're so excited to have you. Oh, thank you. And thank you for having me. I was a bit shocked when I got your message that you wanted to speak to me, actually.

We will take it. So actually, for people that are listening, can we get confirmation, Cecil, that you are a fan of the Bachelor franchise? You're a Bachelor nation? I eat up everything and you both you and and Caitlin I was like I love you as a couple so I was like I've been following along and yeah so I was like oh god we've gotten so many podcast requests you know but this was like

the one that I really really wanted to do because of both that is so so nice to you Caitlin and I appreciate that I will pass that so she's on Dance with the Stars tour she actually gets to come home for 24 hours so I'm going to see her today I will pass that on. And the background story, guys, is I was just watching this documentary. I see it's trending. I'm like, okay, let's put it on.

And I'm seeing and hearing this story of this complete fraudulent scumbag, taking advantage of these women and doing it in such a meticulous, calculated, emotional, grabbing way. And for me, like, a lot of the work we do with restart and trading secrets, one of my motivations is nothing. You think about, like, what gets you going? nothing makes me more pissed off when people are taking advantage of humans like this, whether it's professionally or financially, financially makes me go nuts. And so I just DM, Cecily, and I was like, listen, we got to have you on trading secrets.

And Cecily was like, listen, I'll come on. But like, I'm not here to talk about like investments and stuff. I'm like, no, we just want to talk about your story and learn more about it. Because if there's one person that listens to this that can avoid fraud because of your experience, then today was a win. Yes. That's why we have gone publicly. you know, as well. So thank you for. For sure. And I know going public has actually created a lot of

upside for you, but also a lot of downside too. So later in the interview, we're going to get into some of the challenges you've had to face and some of the trolls that have come at you guys in different angles for just telling your story, which is just mind boggling. But before we do that, for anyone that hasn't seen the Tinder Swindler, go check it out. But for you, Cessley, before you swiped right on Simon, right? And before you connected with him, What was your professional life like? Because I remember in the documentary, it did say, I believe in your profile, it said IT Consulting University of London.

So tell us a little bit about what that was like. Yeah, I had done my bachelor in IT in Norway and I'd been half a year in Australia. I always like to kind of challenge myself. And you're working as a UX designer, used to experience designer in IT. So I've always been interested in people, you know, and designing beautiful apps and websites and IT systems. And then I went to London to do my master's in design because my bachelor was so general and I wanted, yeah, I wanted to learn more.

So that's how I ended up in London actually. And I was actually when I met Simon, I was finishing up my master thesis. And it was on storytelling in virtual reality. And that's a fake reality. So maybe it was like, I love virtual reality and I love all new tech. So there's always been something that I love doing. So that was like finishing up, was working part time in an, IT consultancy and was writing my master thesis.

And so you're still then technically, you're working part-time, but you're technically still a student at this point? Yeah, I am. Okay. And tell me a little bit about your financial profile, because I think the first thing people see when they see this, and they see how much money ended up taking from you, is they think about how did you get access to all this money,

which I want to ask you about, but what does your financial profile look like? Debt income and stuff like that before you swipe, right on Simon. I own my own apartment in, in Oslo, had managed to buy that. So I was paying rent on that, but I had that as value. So, and then I had my student loan, which is a bit better in the one in the US, I've seen. But it's a very good loan to have, actually. It's a very low interest and it's a very good one to have. It sounds bad to say good to have loans. But of all the loans, you should pay down, that shouldn't be the one to pay down, because

Yeah. So that's all I had. And like, of course, in Norway, credit cards is very, so you always had like a master car because it's always good to have as a backup. But no other loans was a very normal. Like, yeah, you had your house loan and student loan and was, and I was renting out my apartment at the time in Oslo, because I was then in London. Gotcha. So you own an apartment at this point. You have some rental income coming in from that. You have student debt. In the United States, we have $1.7 trillion dollars of student debt. So your average person's carried. like a ton of ton of student debt. It's 45 million Americans that have student debt.

What's like, I'm just curious, what does the balance of student debt look like in your world at this time? It's, oh, no, not a lot. I was paying down maybe 200 pounds per month. So for me, overall, with my salary, it was not a lot. So 200 pounds a month. And then that, how long would that take you to pay off, whatever the student debt was?

25 years or something. Okay, gotcha. So it gives you an idea of like what the student debt is. very reasonable payoff. And you're making decent money in this role? Yeah, at that point, I did not. I went down very much in pay from Norway because in the UK, when you enter salary, it wasn't, I had worked already, but it wasn't as good. But now I've gotten much better money. I like to hear that. Like as a corporate banker when I was at like the peak, the base, it was a signing bonus. I talk about this in the book that

tips coming out. The signing bonus was 110, but the base was 165. And then I had commission on top of that based on performance. Is a base salary in IT around, oh, well, this is US dollars and you get paid in pounds? What is like the range of, just like for anyone that's listening, there's no idea. Mine was so bad because that was so stupid. You know when you come to a new country and you don't really know and you're just grateful getting a job? So that's how stupid I was. So I took a salary that was like 34,000 pounds per year. And I'm half that, half the time as part-time. But they knew they could get that out of me.

The company was kind of, so they took as cheap as they could. But now I'm making like 52,000 pounds, but I'm going to go up. So I'm still on the lower end, but that is partly because I really love the company in my team. And for me, sometimes money isn't at all, especially what I've been going through. You need a good employer, a good team around you. But now I'm switching. So now I can make up towards to 92,000. thousand pounds. But it's still not the IT salaries that I've seen in the US. Those are insane.

Yeah, the IT consulting salaries. I mean, maybe we should make a move out here because those are nuts. But I think there's so many lessons in what you already just said about, like, making sure that you're in a company and you're in a career, that you're not just chasing the dollars. And that clearly is what you did and how you're doing it and what you're still doing. When you met, like when you grew up, though, because I'm trying to, I want to compare the differences of Simon's lifestyle to what your lifestyle was before. So when you grew up, did you grow up in a middle class family? Were you ever exposed to these things of luxuries that Simon was putting out like these private jets and these Rolls-Royces or is that? Was this just a

complete shock this lifestyle? I don't think it's a shock because if you live in London, it's all around you. But no, when I was growing up, my dad was a nurse. My mom was a teacher. You can imagine what kind of conversations was around the dinner table. So I think your values comes with that. So no, but a middle class, I would say, but Norway is such a different country. And I think people need to understand which country I'm from. We are very trusting people.

We are, as you would say, maybe a bit naive because we trust the banks. We trust governments. I see that like when I, just here in the UK, they don't trust the government. And for me, that's such a weird thing. So yeah, no, my life was very, like in Norway. You have a very middle class.

you have this thing that you should not separate yourself from the rest. We have something called the A4 life because an A4 paper, you know, the size of a paper that's a very normal. Yeah. You have a house and you have a dog, you have two kids. And everyone is just chasing for that. So if you do something different, that's not a good thing. So you don't see a lot of Lamborghinis in the streets in Oslo.

It's not that kind of society. And then I moved to London and I was like, what is this? Or Tinder in London, even before. I met Simon. Like, that's what I meant. It's like, those pictures Simon had wasn't as different than a lot of finance guys in London. And everyone was like, well, oh, God. And I was like, especially in Norway, so difficult for them to understand.

Maybe in L.A. as well, I don't know. There is a lot of riches out there. There are a lot of rich people in L.A. Yeah, L.A. in New York City, that lifestyle is extremely prevalent. And I think bringing context to the fact that in Norway, that's the way you guys grew up. That's the culture is so important. Because in the United States, that's not the culture, right? I mean, this is a capitalistic society.

What are you doing every day to get ahead? You know, this is the constant conversation. Fraud is like a big thing. We have been taught as consumers and employees in 2022 to literally watch every angle and double check everything because you can't trust anyone. It's interesting growing up in the culture you did and how kind of like a foundational happiness

is more of the overarching theme. Do you think that he strategically went after people from cultures that have that type of background? I think what we know is that he went all over Europe, so I don't think so. Yeah, that's true. But I think that he met a lot of women and I think he made a big net. I've gotten a lot of girls that met him and are gone out now. Well, I went on a date with him and I just saw red flags and blah, blah, blah, you know. So he went on a lot of dates.

And I think he just saw qualities, like I'm friends with Eileen and Pernilla now, you know, we're very similar as people. He saw that. And I think he saw the nurturing kind. It sounds so bad to say that about yourself. But I've talked to some of those people. They're like, oh, I would never have helped him. And I was like, well, if you think you're in a relationship with someone, you must have,

you must understand what kind of emotional thing you're invested in. It's always like someone that you're like, Caitlin is coming and saying, I need your help. you know him much better but you are that invested in it and can you help me and it's a very difficult situation to be in to say no because they know they have you and if you are that kind of person that you are maybe a bit naive or kind-hearted and want to help and you see the best in people he he went after those kind of people I know I don't know that many girls from I know there's a lot of cases in Germany and several in the Netherlands and and I know someone else in Sweden as well. So maybe I don't know if it's what I'm saying. Yeah, but I think I think you're

right. Like maybe it was a certain personality type that he knew that he could manipulate that just worked well for like his strategy of manipulation. And I think to your point, what's really important is I agree with you. Actually at the dinner table the other day, we kept doing these what if scenarios. It was my four close buddies in town. And one of the what if scenarios were what if you're arrested, you need $50,000 bail. Who's going to be the first person you call? And I was surprised all four of them called said me. And so it was kind of an eye-opening experience. I was like, oh, yeah.

Like I would absolutely, if any one of those guys called me and said, I need 50K immediately wired, I would do it in a second. Because my loyalty to those who give me loyalty is extremely, extremely high. But I will say I'm very selective with who I actually will give my loyalty to. So that comes in the question I have for you, Cecily. I don't think the documentary did a good enough job of giving us content. of what the relationship was actually like. So when you swiped right, tell me a little bit about how many times you had seen him, how many times maybe you had spoken to.

What was the strength of the relationship before he started to ask for things from you? No, I, to be very honest with you, you know, like we met up in London several times later on, but then that's when like the threats started coming in. It was throughout January, and then he said the threats have gone worse and that he needed to be keeping away for a couple of weeks. It was always a couple of weeks. But we talked on the phone, it was such a, I look at it later, a very love bombing relationship. I didn't think about it because low bombing has been talked much more about in the later years, but it was morning calls, like midday calls, video calls. It's not even like, and I think it's now I see it as a huge, but he was.

so available and I had so missed that in a relationship, someone who was prioritizing you or feeling that something was special, you know? And I jumped very quickly into relationships and I love being loved and he, I think he could see that. It was a very deep one very early on and he was opening up about his, you know, childhood and had long conversations on the phone in the evenings, which I had been so surprised knowing what he's been doing because I don't get it if you know what I mean because I had long video calls and long conversations with him about his past and his child and his family who is as a person what he wants in life I was questioning him about the people that he surrounded himself with because I could see that they were just exploiting him and using him you know

I thought so it sounds very weird to go back in time and talk to him as a victim like that but for me it seemed to me that he didn't have a lot of close friends which was the reality maybe but and that I saw almost myself as a savior of him to show him more of a normal life that you don't need all the glitzing I'm from Norway you know I just wanted to I have it in a text I say can we just have taco now that's my place because I was like that's what I want yeah like to to not have all this I didn't I didn't need it I wanted him because I being around him and the persona that he created was very magnificent. Everyone is talking about

humanitarian that when you're with him when he puts on you want to be around that. It's a very he has something. He's just using it very wrongly. So he has this unique kind of emotional intelligence, this way of commanding that like you have never experienced in your life. And I think another aspect that isn't coming as clearly maybe in documentary, but I have to say like

before in Norway I have had a lot of friends and you were close to my family and at that point in time I was not very I didn't feel so comfortable in London I didn't enjoy myself in London so much it's a very scary city for me I'm from like Oslo yeah 600,000 people is the max and suddenly you live in this metropole where do I want to stay here do I don't want to and I didn't have much contact with my family didn't have any close friends that could actually see how I was doing properly so it felt a very I think he, just so many factors that entered that it ended up so badly for me that I didn't have anyone to just, you know, see me and just like Cecilia, like, yeah, stuff out of it.

It was like worst case scenario for all the moving things in your life, right? You just moved to a new city. You're feeling somewhat insecure. Anytime you're feeling insecure is someone who's moved to a new own city and do no one. Like you get very down on yourself and you do anything that. find security. And then you have this master professional manipulator who's using, and I think the reason I'm repeating this is because I want people to be aware of this, right? This manipulation is coming in the form of looking, he's giving his vulnerability, because vulnerability will create

some form of emotional attachment. And then once he gives the vulnerability, he's, he's victimizing himself so that you are now compassionate about his life and you're feeling as though other people are utilize, like using him, and then you're willing to do, you now have committed this strength of a relationship that is, that's unprecedented, and usually doesn't exist because people don't do a lot of those things and not all those moving parts happen at once. Another thing is that I felt that he had just helped me as well, like, you know, being taken on that private, I know it sounds so stupid, but I was very grateful, you know, I've never been on a private jet before. I never seen a plane land. It's given me experience.

that I was really grateful for. And he has just given me so much. I know he sounds so bad, but I felt that he had helped me, become more confident. Like, he had given me so much I felt. So when he came for me in need, how, it's difficult when you felt someone had helped you

or given you something. Are you then going to say no for, and at that point in time, I just have to say, it was, I want to play you the recording when he's asking me. It's not that he says, can you give me money?

Because that would be red flag. you know but as a as a girlfriend can you connect your American Express with mine that is his ask I want to hear the recording yeah I want to hear the recording but as you send it later but I'm just so frustrated sometimes because all is context yeah I get it but because when I see oh I would never give a hundred thousand pounds I was like no it wasn't that's where he started with they bring you in, put in some small crumbs, and then they have you. And then to get out of it then. These are such important things that people need to be listening to, right? Because this story is leverage. This is the story of leverage. He's providing something. And then in a very, very

fucked up toxic way, he's using money and experience is leverage for debt. And people do this all the time. Your boss might even do this. Like, they'll take you out, you know, in small ways. It's tough to compare it to it to it. But your boss will take it. that's like a nice dinner and expense it on the card, but in return, they'll, you know, maybe they hold that over your head. If anyone's doing that in your life, it is extremely, extremely toxic and we need to check people. And this is a good story to learn from. But he does all these things, right? Hold you accountable. Now, at this point, you said you haven't seen him as much, but how many hours do you think he spent talking to him before he puts that

first request for money in? Oh my God, they're so, well, that's interesting. No, like, that's very interesting. I never, but that must have been. How many, like a couple hours every say, oh, my God, let me Yeah, take your time. Yeah, I'm 30. Can I put it up my... Yeah, don't take your time talking about it.

I'm so glad at my. But while you're doing the thought process behind that, the reason I ask is because that's what people talk about the Bachelor franchise a lot. And they'll say like, they'll say like, well, how do you fall in love

after two and a half months? And my response to them was, well, when there's a moment, like suppose there's a day that I was spending with Becca at the time for 18 hours straight. Think about it. I was with her for 18 hours straight.

no phone, no TV, no internet, no friends, no distraction. Think about my partner today. Caitlin and I haven't been together 18 hours straight because of all of our traveling stuff over the course of two months. So that's why I think knowing how many hours you probably spent with them puts in context, like the tightness of the relationship. Yeah, I would say like if you say think about like maybe two hours per day and it took like, for me it went very quickly before towards, for example, Penela, I took six weeks.

before you mentioned to get some help, you know, so that is fairly quickly. I think maybe 150 hours or something, like, because we were together full days over some times when we were then, and then maybe two, two, three hours each day, so 150, 200, like, and he keeps you warm with messages as well throughout the day. So it's like a, it's a very strong, like a very powerful, right? Because he's working as well. You have to remember, like, I was working full time. It was not that I was traveling.

Like, I was in the situation. I think he saw me as a proper milking cow, and I can see that compared to the other girls. Because I didn't get any, like, not too, it sounds so bad to say, but I've been looking, when I'm looking back at it, it was like, I didn't receive anything. So everyone was like, oh, you flew you all over Europe.

You had the expensive dinners and live that fancy. I was like, no, I didn't. You're like, I didn't get my money's worth. Yeah, but I would just like, It was just like, but it's worse, like, but I didn't. I was like, I was in, because I had a serious job. I couldn't, as everyone that has a job that you need to be at, I couldn't just drop it away. And I think that he saw that as a golden opportunity as well.

You know, here I have a woman that is crazy in love with, that would do everything. And she's stuck there. Okay. I'm with you now. So we got about 150, 200 hours of connection. You got six weeks. And we are just minutes away from getting to the moment where he, you for the money and you give him the money. The last question I have before that is you did

talk about red flags. And so I remember one of the red flags you said is you saw the marks on his back and you questioned him about the fact he was in prison a little bit. So my question to you is, did you ever think when he told you was in prison to do further research on that? Or were there any red flags that were exposed that you said, I need to look further into this? Not before because I think that his explanations were so truthful and I think he's so great at the theater that he puts up. So I truly just, I just trusted him and I never met. I never been in these type of situations before. So I didn't think of actually doing more research because I just felt really, really bad for him at that point, actually to be very honest with you.

And he told you he went to prison for what? He said that he was in the weapons industry. That was his, because before he entered there, and it was just kind of funny to see that that's what he did. He did years ago. That he said he was in the weapons industry with his last fraud. And then he had some enemies that, again, oh, God, I hate talking about it because it's like, for me, of course,

but I have to say, you know, when I talk hindsight is a fucking gift, you know, Like, I should have ran. I should have ran. I think that's, I don't know what kind of person. Like, I've grown very much. I don't know what kind of person I was when I was listening to this and I wasn't running. I just fully trusted what he said. But he said he was in the weapons industry.

And I'm sorry if I'm a lot of him and I tell him the story. And that he had enemies that had turned his backs on him and they were trying to do a weapon steal. And then he said he was incarcerated on false pretenses. And he didn't talk so much about it. He was more about how all his friends had turned his back on him. Like even his ex-girlfriend, he showed me some pictures of her, which made me a previous fraud victim.

And she had turned his back on him. And the only one that was still there was Avishai, that was still his business partner. So Avishai meant a lot to him while all the others and while in prison. He had visits from a rabbi. And he was really, he was very about being Jewish and how he's been so manhandled, almost all his life. It's difficult stuff to question,

like when you're sitting there, you know, when you get into those type of topics, it's always a bit difficult. And it's overwhelming. It's overwhelming. It's difficult and he's completely, again, victimizing himself. Now, we're going to get into the first request

that he asked you for, but the last thing I want to ask before we get into the money of it. You talked about his business partner. We know that he had his bodyguard. And we know that on your first flight with him, he had a woman there that he claimed was his, I think, an ex-wife and they had a child with them. Now, looking back on it, are all three of those people accomplices in part of this grandmaster plan?

There are different answers to that. I can be quick. Avisha is totally in on it, that he doesn't get more talk about him. It's a shame. He is totally in. He knows everything. They're childhood friends. So he knows that Simon LeVive is not Simon LeVive.

It's Shimon Hayut. So he's like the CEO of this plan. I would say that they're very much. Like they had conversations about diamonds and diamonds order in English pretending to speak to someone in another room than I was in, but knowing that I would listen in. Who does that? You know, it's those type of immersive theater tactics that they did,

which is insane to me because they didn't do business with diamonds. Peter is a bit, I don't know if you listen to the podcast, podcast that was following along with the documentary. If you haven't pleased, because it's amazing. Yes. Let's take a quick break there. Where can people find the podcast? What's the name of it?

It's called Making a Swindler. Okay. You can get on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, but it's part of Netflix, one of Netflix's podcast series. But making a swindler is three parts. Because much more in detail on his accomplices and other victims and that it isn't only women and like how big of a scheme it is and that this goes back to Simon's childhood as well.

So it's mind-blowing. So this is so much bigger than people. And what about the ex-wife and the child? Is there a role? I have very much resentment towards her. I'm trying not to, trying to have grace in these type of situations. Because to me, he said that this was a one-night stand,

but they were in friendly terms and she was there so he could visit her so he could see his kid. Oh, gosh. And then I got to know that this is one of his ex-fraud victims. They were in a committed relationship that she thought. So think about it. She gets pregnant with someone and then you realize that you've been defrauded. You can imagine what kind of maybe Stockholm syndrome, love still in there.

He had defrauded her. Maybe he gave her some money. She still feels that maybe his daughter should see her dad. I don't know. There are a lot of factors. she told me she was really upset back in 2019 and called me because I said that she was part of it and she meant she was just there that weekend

and nothing else but she received gifts she was taking the jets she took a lot of money that you know is from fraud how could you do that I'm or why were you there so I'm not sure but I have sympathy for the fact that there is an army of people that are every day manipulating this person I have no sympathy

for the fact that this person went through what she did, has a child because of it, and then is there side by side participating in watching someone about to take the same plunge? That I don't have, that I have no support for.

No, I just like, I'm trying, you know? I'm trying, you know, when you go on these type of, it's just so bad to be so tough, you know, and other people's lives we don't know. But of course, if she would have just done something

or not just even lied or like, don't lie. when you were on the stand to get this guy in jail and say it's a great guy, you don't know him. And Peter, as I said, like, Peter did a lot of things to me. Like, he had meetings with me in Amsterdam thanking me for the job I was doing and how much I was helping them. He said that he was the leader of the Israeli security team. He was the one calling Simon saying, Simon, you enemies have found you. You need to leave.

So, your plane is ready. Okay, you're taking a big risk now, staying with Cecilia. You know, like, it's how big of an operation is that if he was duped as well, it needs to be even bigger than, then Simon had to hire a false security team with a lot of false documents for Peter. I think the more highly is that Peter really enjoyed party. You can see Peter partying. Oh, yeah. So he was, that's how he was getting paid. That was the leverage for Peter.

All right. So we now understand the full context, the time, the hours, the relationship in the army of people working against. in the worst ways that humans can work against you. Then the first request comes in. And my understanding it was for $25,000. Is that correct? No. How much was the first request for?

Well, it's never about a specific amount. It was more if I had a credit card because he needed to not use his credit cards. He started off a bit earlier the day before. I'm in a big crisis. I'm not allowed to use my credit cards anymore. And I was like, oh, my God, it's like horrible. What is going on? Have you talked to your security team?

Yeah, let me see. see if I can figure it out, you know. And then he comes the next day. And then he records a message where he says, do you have, I don't want to ask you this, but do you have an American Express card just for some, just for some, a couple weeks so I can connect it to my card and so he could travel safely because he said that his enemies could track where he was doing the spend. And at this point, I was thinking. So as you know, it's like, it's not even, it's not, I know it's money, you know, but you don't think it's money. You think it's safety at that point. you know, that he, if it's dangerous for him to use his cars.

And I know we can look at, that's what I felt at the point. And for me, remember, he was a CEO of LOD Diamonds. This was a very powerful dude that had a lot of people around him listening to him. So you had no reason to doubt him, right? At that point, no, because I thought and that he was the guy he said he was. So I thought he really wasn't dangerous. And who would have a fucking bodyguard? Sorry.

Yeah, no, it's outrageous. So did you take out a credit card? Tell me about the mechanics for the first trade. You took out a credit card in your name and then sent it to him? Yeah, or I visited him. So he said, take up a platinum American Express card. And I was like, can I even do that? How do you get a platinum?

Oh, it's super easy to just say that you make 200,000 pounds. I'm scared. I'm going to get it. I've never done anything that I shouldn't do before, you know? Yeah. And he was like, no, no, promise me. Everything's fine. And everything has gone the way he said.

this is what I mean. So I get a car and I was like, how is that even possible? No documentation of my salary. You get a Platinum Express card. So I get that and I'm happy. It sounds about to say. And I was like, yes, I'm going to help him out now.

Come to then Amsterdam and hands it to him. And he just says that, well, since you're a new client, you're going to have, we're going to have a lot. And it was always we. It was what? We're going to have. It was always we that we were in this together. We're in a war.

we're in this like it creates this so we will have a lot of problems now at the start you would you're going to have to call american express a lot because they will block the card and i hate calling that is my and especially lying and calling saying that i was the one traveling around when i wasn't that is not a fun thing to do but you're doing it because you think it's crisis like yeah so i then started like saying that like I am travel you need to open the car and said well the credit isn't big enough we need the more we need either funds in or you we need some you know documentation about your salary so when I'm then in Amsterdam so that what I felt didn't come as clearly as well I was in Amsterdam with him and I be shy when he says we'll hire her he looks at Avisha and it's like

oh we'll hire her at LOD diamonds and because it's crisis and we'll just make it happen he calls someone that he puts on speaker asking him hi can you add cecilia feel her to the employee list i'll send her and i'm just like but who was that person that was like so that was clearly someone part of the fraud and so they're in on it they so you are you're taking out this credit card debt amex is saying you need proof of income to continue to take up this amount of debt simon then calls a fake fraudulent person and tells them to add you to the payroll so they can show that you have income, that you can tell Amex, you have income so they'll increase your credit limit. At this point, how much credit card limit have you taken out with that mix?

That wasn't that much, you know, maybe, oh, much, much, much, but in Simon's maybe 10,000 or something was already quite a lot, I feel to be a brand new card, but. And he maxed out that, so the 10,000 is completely maxed out, right? He did that. He did that already even before because he knew that it would block it the documentary can't have everything in the correct order but it happened even like when I was there that they were discussing that and I was super scared but as I said when I was with him I felt so safe and I was super scared and I said to him am I putting myself in problem like I think that's what makes me that's what makes me really sad that if you do this, you know, because I put myself in problems,

you know, because I was doing things I shouldn't have done. Like, no one should send in false documentations. And I was like, what if they call? And they said, relax, I'm the CEO. You're in the system. So you're not doing anything wrong. Like, relax, everything will be fine. And knowing that someone can lie to your face like that while when he sees, I can't even

imagine, you know. So it's not about the money for me. It's like that someone could actually knowing that they could. you in so much problems and you're there only to help him, you know? And it's like he identified every one of the like your scariest moments and your scariest fears and created bullshit lies to like create safety nets in like your weakest places. And he knew he hadn't me, you know, like I think he saw from how I was reacting and how maybe was asking questions about his day and how he was looking and how he was feeling.

And I have to say, Jason was like, I knew like from the documentary that he was just having fun. But with me, he seemed like he was in so much pain. So he's such a great actor. Like, as this was going along, he was not feeling well. He was looking on well. He was like, and I think that's the scariest part is that someone who can lie so visibly with his body language and how he's with you. And then he leaves you.

And then he parties off and have sex with someone else. You know, it's a very difficult feeling. It's a sociopath at its finest. form. Well, I want to ask you about your credit score before these longs start going out. What did the credit score look like before you had, like when you first went to Amex? What was that like? Oh, in the UK, nothing, which I think that's why I have a lot of questions for Amex. It's nothing because I had just moved. I couldn't even get a normal credit card. So you couldn't get a normal credit card, but you were getting approved by Amex for all this money.

And it's just so weird because those documentations I sent in, suddenly I was living in New York, But when I applied for the card, I was truthful and said I lived in London. Not a question about that at all. And suddenly I was living and making those amounts. I would have loved to relisten to all the times I called into them, you know, because it's. So there are like several things. And he was using LD diamonds. And when they came to talk to me, they'd said that they had a long investigation on this guy.

Simon started becoming Simon LeVive in summer 2017. So you've been doing this for a while, and Amix was his preferred method. So if they had a long investigation on him, knew that he had three, four women, I sent documentations from LOD Diamonds in March, and you tried to contact me at the end of March, how could you have proved it?

I just have a lot of questions for them. No, I think you should. Do Dylan. It's just so weird here that I was like, But if you had a long investigation on him. Due diligence for financial companies is extremely important. And if there was a long investigation and you're clearly not the first. You're one of hundreds, remaining thousands.

There should be some type of input in place here by Ammex. Ammex, in my opinion, does have some responsibility. But let's go to this real quick. So break down. So you get the 10,000, that's maxed out. What's the rest of the money requests look like? And how do you get those money? How do you get that money to him?

And what's the process? To be very honest with you, everything's like when it comes to the Amex thing, that is a complete blur. It's every single day I need to call. Suddenly the card isn't working. I need to call everything stress. It's a stress and a pressure every single day and I'm working full time. So I need to call between meetings, sitting there with Amex, pretending I'm in Cape Town,

pretending I'm somewhere like, pretending I'm all over the world. And he could use that card. And then so in the end, I think it was. like with time, I have no idea. We should almost ask Amix like how it was even possible. He had racked up 67,000 pounds. Just on the AMX, just in the American Express. Yes. And under a month. Okay. So 67,000. And then once that's maxed out under a month, what is his next request to you money wise and how does he do it? No, yeah, that's when it comes in because Amex then says that we need funds, we're not going to raise your credit anymore.

So then he had tried then, in March then, to make a direct payment to my account in Amex, but of course he did something wrong. And I sent those over to Amex. I said, no, the information isn't correct. It's correct like that, but he should have done it like this. And I bet that he knew that he did kind of a right way, but the wrong way. They said, oh, everyone does. it that way. And I was like, of course. And then we need money in quick. And he's the master of saying, and I'm not known with this, you know, how quickly does an international payment comes in? Sure. So I am then saying, well, I could do some checkups and see if I can get some loans so we could pay down the card and open the card. It was always about, that's what you

understand. Like, it was never about the money. It was never, can you get me 25? Can you get me? It was like, Can we open the card? Can we get the card working? So the perspective, I think it's important when people are listening. I'm very focused right now and asking Cecilia about what the dollar amounts are. But what you're saying is that in your brain at this time, in this moment, with this emotion and vulnerability and the person you love is telling you their life is threatened, the question that I'm asking you about the dollar amounts never in a million years went through your head. For you, it was just this rush of panic. it's got to get done, just get it approved, we got to get it done. And that's how he's telling you to do it. So now that you're, when you hear the numbers over a podcast, you're probably thinking, well, what the fuck? But your point, Cecilia, is that you were, that never crossed your mind because you're in such concern and disarray trying to save this guy's life. Yes, it was such a crisis and he made it such a crisis in haste. He's very good at that. So when I then pay down so we can open the Amex, I get super happy because he can then use.

TM at least sounds so weird, but he was so fucking happy. And then Amix then calls me and say, we've blocked the card. We know that you are not been using, you're not the person who's been using your card. And we blocked it. And I was then in total disarray. I already paid then 45,000 pounds.

You know, I was like, what are we going to do? And again, is we, you know? What are we going to do? And then I even sent off a really angry email to them because I was such. brainwash you know so I felt it was so horrible of them to block the car and I had been using the car and how dare they say like and and Simon as well you know fuck amics they're going to get

their money and let's let's forget about it and that's when I start I'm the one that saying that I have a master card and a region master card that we could use oh my gosh so then so now you have Amex in the balance there is like 67 right and then so down now to 26 so that's me let's go it's getting paid down what is so this new creditor the name of that bank is what dnb dnb and so how much does dm b give you oh no now now it becomes very big now it becomes such a because i take up this high consumer debt loans okay because my credit in order is really good as it could hear i had my apartment. I had a well-paid job based on my tax returns. I done really well. And I had a long line of credit, like being a very good customer throughout the year. So my credit was super good

in Norway. So to get loans was not an issue. Interesting. They don't do any type of international check when they're doing your credit. They're only looking at the country that you're in. That's news to me. I didn't even know that. Okay. So how much do they approve you up? The credit card wasn't that much of a limit, but Simon taught me that you can do transfers to your MasterCard, and then the limit would be what you transferred to. So no matter if my limit was $5,000, if I transferred like $20,000, then that would be then $22,000.

And I didn't even know that. What he would do is have you open the card in this your country where you have good credit. He then has you transfer cash to the credit card company. So if the balance is 5K, you transfer 20K to the credit card company. So that increases the balance on that credit card up 25,000. And who is in possession of that credit card rate on? Simon, at this point.

Yeah. So I have then visited him again. Like, I've visited him several times throughout this, you know. But now I see why I needed to visit him, you know. I didn't even. Of course. And on the Amex card, is the interest just being like, are you having to pay? Are you missing payments?

What's happening while this new credit cards coming out? I have just put that in the back of my mind. We will handle that when everything has calmed down and we fixed this. Yeah, this rich guy will get the money. He'll be fine. We'll get it taken care. I was just, we will fix it. And he calmed me down with that we will fix it.

He was my safety net at this point because my entire life was just in disarray. So he was the only sense and reason and comfort almost that this would be okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I started up doing this different high consumer. debt loans. So in total nine creditors, nine different loans of different values and do it very successful, like very quickly after one another. And I get them paid out very quickly. You know, it's just a couple days. I even send a message to Simon saying, oh, no wonder people

goes bankrupt in this country. It's so easy to get loans. I was like. Are you still using though your fake income to get these loans? Oh no, no. Now I just use my normal tax return in Norway. I, no, I did not. I used my real pay, my real income. So 67 with Amex, nine creditors, nine different values. What is the total amount at this point, and over what period of time? Oh, so I think over like two weeks, it was just 150,000, just over two, three weeks. Because it was about paying down first.

I used 45 just to pay down the Amex that we could never use. use. So 45,000 pounds was kind of lost. I know it sounds mean, but I was like, it was lost. I need to apply for new loans again so we could open up the new card. So you used your loans to pay down the Amex so you can get new creditors. At any point of this $150K, did he transfer anything over? He tried. He did one, he did one transfer from, But he did so that he did very high values. He didn't send just to get some in, you know. He sent $500,000 from Hong Kong.

And I see from other scams that he's done that that's what he does, because first of all, the international, so it's more difficult to track. And then when I then called Lloyd's and I said, I'm getting one from Hong Kong. And said, well, with that amount, it will be stopped in Hong Kong. It will, because it's going to me as a private person. So why is Cecilia feel who are getting that amount?

So they said this will take several days, you know. The bank is collaborating what he's saying. And then in the end, it ends up with the check that I'm trying to cash. And then he wins some time with that as well. Because in the documentary, it just said I couldn't. But I want to explore it and explain with the check. With the check, I couldn't cash it. And I was really scared at that point because this was mid-April.

And at the end of April, that's what I understood. In context, you flew out there, give people a context who maybe haven't seen the documentary yet. How much total is that you've taken out for him? And just tell him a little bit about how you flew there because you told him that's where the check was. Oh, God. How much has it? Almost everything. It was like maybe 180 or something.

It was at like, it was at the end where I was like, this is my last stitch effort. As I said, sometimes mentally is very difficult to get out of this mindset that you are being defraud. it because the reality is so much more difficult than what is fake. So I went out there to get the check and in the documentary it was a bit of a different vibe, but it wasn't as bad as it sounds in a documentary. We were still like still boyfriend, girlfriend kind of. Then he gives me the check and I do go and cash it and I in Norway we don't even have checks. Like I have never used a check in my life. I don't know how a check is supposed to look like. And then I cash it and then I get back from the back we can cash this check and I get like something's wrong again but then

I call Simon and then he goes off on a tangent you know Superman and call LD diamonds how weird is this fucking dude who could say call LOD diamonds it's so weird and then I'm on the phone with them I wait for half an hour and said what's wrong with the check and said oh the amount is too big and I was like what like yeah we're not casting checks that is that amount in Japan private accounts. And I was like, so there's nothing wrong with the check. The check is fine. There's nothing wrong with the check. And then I get to know later on that the bank didn't even check if the check was real or not. Who does that as a bank that you don't? To maybe try to figure out if someone is being defrauded. If someone is coming in with a fake check, maybe tell her that by

the way, the check you tried to is fake is, are you okay? Like that is most amount. So saying that the check is okay. So he got like not that I couldn't take out any more loans almost, but I was desperate. You know, I even took out my grandma's birthday present gift for me. Like she gave me some cash to pay for his flight tickets because I was so desperate to, to Tel Aviv. Because he said, come with me to Tel Aviv. I don't know what I would have happened if I went to Tel Aviv with him, but he said, we will fix everything and you get your money and this and then everything's done, you know? But I was like, this is the kind of mindset you get to. to a certain point when you're so worn down psychological from all the pressure that would even

do that, even though you know kind of deep down inside at that point at the end of April that this isn't real, but you're so scared of the future. Yeah, that you're just starting to panic. One of the things that he did was he faked a break-in. Like, I think I saw that he had a break-in into his London apartment. Was that real or was that fake? I knew that he had a Tel Aviv apartment because there were pictures on his old Instagram. Everyone's talking about his old Instagram, but I'm talking about the old old one that was showing his life in Tel Aviv before.

So I knew that he had if that was his real apartment in Tel Aviv, but I'd seen him in an apartment in Tel Aviv. So he had this app where he actually went in. It wasn't screenshots. It was a real CCTV app where he'd show me before, because he was just going to show me, maybe just

set me up first. Look at this. This is the apartment I see see. I need CCTV because you never know. And then later on, some weeks later, he said, oh, look at this CCTV. He goes into the app and there's been a, you could see from the door, it's been a breaking and it's fucking CCTV. So he's, this guy's thinking about, I don't know what he did, but he's so, and he plants seeds, you know, it's always a bit of, he plants the seeds, sets you up and then smacks you down. You said Instagram, one of the things he did in the documentary too is he told you he was deleting his

Instagram and made you go private, right? He, that was so scary. That's when he was Was that? And was that so that people couldn't contact you? Was that his mechanism of, why do you think he did that? He was like then making me fear for my life. And I don't think you are managing. Of course, I should have then, why can he still then use my car? But you're not thinking clearly. Like you're, I have to say, when you're under pressure and threats, you're not thinking as clearly as later on. So I, he made me like remove my picture. I had to put up a picture that was me removing my name, just Cecilia. remove my location because I had like London and then make myself private just for a little while just for a little while just just just just just for the security situation is going to is fine and then I think things went back to normal but I was like you get fucking insane with the situation so almost two so it's almost $250,000 right in all different loans nine different creditors all different interest rates what was the breaking point for you when did you realize this was all fraudulent?

I think, as I said, like I had someone else that says, maybe you don't want to believe you're being defrauded before it's too late. And I think this was one of those. But I was at home. He had said he's been working on this deal that he told Eileen as well, this London hotel deal. And that's what he had to travel so much around for. And then he said, well, it's the last day.

If I can't get in the money, I will either come and crawl on your shoulder or celebrate kind of in London. I don't care now. I just need to be with you. in the morning I get I lost and at that point I just knew oh god I was like you know you have a lot of things that don't go your way that has been the entire time the threats were never getting better you know he always said two weeks and two weeks and then now it's just a week and we're getting sooner to a solution and it was like never there and I was like no no one has and then he turned completely on me over some days if you could hear those voice messages that he left

on the phone. He was just screaming how selfish I was. It was sorry for him and not me. I had just lost 200,000 or, but he didn't even owe me. He had already sent it. Like he had done the deal, you know, he had sent the money. So it wasn't his problem anymore. And he had lost 70 million. So it's him. And he just wanted to kill himself. I remember one evening where I was like, don't jump off. Like I was so bad to say, but I was still scared. Like he had was not my boyfriend anymore. He had turned into this other person that the other girls could hear. He called me so stupid because I was asking me questions. And maybe I should have asked those questions much earlier to get to this side of him. But it was a painful experience. And that's when I knew

I needed to contact Amex. And that's when Amex sent the auditors to you. And they confirmed that this is fraudulent and he's been doing this for so long. I mean, at that point, what's going over your head. I don't think anyone can understand. Like, I was at work as well with my manager taking care of me, you know. I think it was the severity of it. And at that point in time, not only had I lost my boyfriend, and I knew that I was, I was so scared what I had implicated myself in. I knew what I had done. I'm not a stupid person. I knew. I, and I think, I think that says a lot about the pressure I was in, that I was willing to put my myself in jeopardy and danger because I thought it was something that was important to do and it

was someone's life. I wouldn't have done it just for to get some money, implicate myself and be like for document fraud and like who would want to do that for like just for some money. Like I don't need it. I'm from a very well off country. Like I don't need it. I've never needed it. I think sitting there with them, they really helped me. I have a lot of bad. things to say about Amex as well, but I think they saved me that day. Because one of the men, he said that he had the daughter. That was my age and he wanted just to kill the bastard, he said. That it was really not my fault that, as they said, this is his full-time job and you're good at your job. You're sitting on my job. You know, you're good at your job. And you do it full-time.

And this is a guy that does this full-time and that I should never feel bad and that they were not going to go after me. And that made me, I think, breathe. I don't know. what I would have done if I wouldn't have met them and they called me down the way they did because I was, it wasn't, it was just like, I knew that I had fucked up so much. I know that I had destroyed my life completely and done something illegal in the case of it as well. And so tell me about, so this is rock bottom. At this point it's rock bottom. Now you know you, like you said, you fucked up, you know you've been taking advantage of it. He fucked up worse than you fucked up. and you are at rock bottom, what are the next steps?

Do you block him and just try and go back to work? What are your restart steps after literally being in the worst position you've ever lived in your entire life? I think first I was wondering what I was going to do with them because I still was saying, I love you to him, like still was having a relationship on the phone and was going to meet up with him. I think we all girls have done the same.

We tried to catch him. which I think is awesome. So I asked them, like, I know him. I can get him to Amsterdam. Like, I can say that I have some cash, you know, and just meet him in Amsterdam and we can lock him up? So I said, what do you want me to do? And they said, can you keep him warm a bit?

Because if he understands that you know, it might be more difficult. And then he said, we will silence him for you in a week. So, and he's still out there. So that is mean. So I went through the weekend, trying to keep up. I got like, I love you messages. And I was like, tearing up.

I just like, I still loved him. you know. And I think it's like I am, I'm still warning a relationship. I really, like, it sounds so bad, but I, he was very special to me, you know. So it's my life on the line for him. So it's bad when someone is doing something like that to you. So I, um, I kept it up with him a bit and then I couldn't be in Norway anymore. So my family, luckily, I have a very strong and nice families. And they got me back home to Norway, reported it. And then I said, what do you want me to you and he said, I think you have to block him for your own. So I didn't say anything. I think I knew what everyone else is not understanding yet, that you will never get a proper explanation

from him, why he's doing what he's doing, you know, you're never going to get an apology. You're never going to, you're just going to get abuse. And so I just blocked him. And that's when Peter sent me a message. You blocked Simon, what's the reason. And then he sent me an email. Why did you block me and that's when he called in the threat over the phone because he tried to call me but I didn't take the phone happy I didn't did and then I just got from some lawyers in Norway that the banks are going to go after me and that's it's just a lot to handle so that's when I went into psychiatric ward for some time just to heal and then after that I got back to London I got a death threat sent through an email a warning for me and my family and friends

I was trying to dig up some stuff because I had met another girl in Amsterdam and I was wondering who is that girl and I saw that I had transferred a transfer that I thought was going to him had gone to her. So I sent her a message when I was in psychiatric ward and it was like, are you the girl that was in Simon's apartment

and she had gone straight to him and said that I had started doing digging? So he told me not to be Sherlock Holmes don't mess with fire. This will be a way bigger reaction like good luck he's horrendous I think people need to understand this is not it you can laugh at him but

people are here it's a lot is very traumatic and I think this is what he's done to all his victims but I was the only one that after some weeks I managed to regain some strength and just like I had known that I was the last of three four women I saw several

names that Amex had shown me I knew that there were so many victims out there why is no one saying anything why is it still out there this can't continue. Police weren't taking this humancy. The banks were going hard. You don't, you just have media left to get, to get his name, paste the name out there.

What else do we have, you know? And that's when you went to VG, right? And you got them, and that was the only thing that really exposed this story. It wasn't Amex, it wasn't the banks, it wasn't the police, it was finally going in media. No one did anything. Alex didn't do anything. They didn't even warn Penela, if you're going to talk to her. She has a lot to say

because she was so mad at me at the start. Why didn't Cecilia warn me? Because I got told in May and saw her name in May. She got defraud in November. But they told me don't contact any other victims. We are building a case. We're contacting them though. If you talk together,

the lawsuit will be worse. The trial will be much worse if you have collaborated. And then so she got defrauded because I didn't reach out to her. Unbelievable. So give me Give me the timeline real quick. You meet him in January, was it?

Yeah. You meet him in January. And then when do you end up going to psychiatric ward to get some help? May. So this happens over five months, about 250 grand in total, and so much drama. And then how long are you in psychiatric ward working on getting help? It was just a week because it was in Norway. And I think all I needed was to sleep because I think I'd,

been sleep deprived and so stressed over the last months. It wasn't exactly what happened there, but the stress and pressure that he had put me under over several weeks just got got to me. And this was the end of it, you know? Yeah. It was a happy ending. It was a terrible ending. Terrible ending. And then end of May, when, at what point does he stop reaching out to you? At what point are you just going back to work and living the normal life you live before you swiped right on the sky? Well, I try very quickly because I love my job and it's always been a bit of a thing that you go to think about something else. I tried to go back to work on the 23rd, actually. On the 4th, I went to American Express.

The 23rd, I tried to go back to work. But then I read the death threats from him. He had sent it to my work email as well. And I was at work and started bawling my eyes out and he needed to report it to the police in the UK as well. So after that, I was away from work for three weeks, I think, three, four weeks. but it's not good for anyone to go at home and think about this. It's so much better if you enjoy your work to actually go to work and think about something else.

So I've always had that as almost like my therapy going to work. So you go back to work and then at what point is it in late May that you never hear from him again? Like when is the last time you've heard from time? Oh, that was just that email threat. So that was the last time. Yeah, he just blocks people. And then you'll never hear from him again.

I contacted him once because I was a bit upset but he has never reached out ever I just said that he was having a lot of meetings with his lawyer and I was like and I was just so upset because he was having very fancy meetings with cigars and stuff and it's like I understand why you'd meet all these meetings with your lawyers and then I sent it from not my real profile

as the action reaction page but he knew it was me so he said feel hoi good luck and know you all I know everything and you have criminal charges against you in Greece. Check it out. The only fraud it's you. But you thought you crashed me with those lies. You made me a superstar. I know. As I told you to every action going to be a reaction, you told you lies out loud. Now it's over. So it's me. It's not me. I never took nothing from you or no one is not proven nothing. And you are amazing person as you are and you thought to open up a war against me. So

you all lost and we'll lose each and every time. Next time, choose someone in your own size. What a scumback. Where is he getting money today? Where is he getting money? Do you think he's still defrauding people? And how is it not, in your eyes, how do people, how is that still happening? Isn't the word big enough now that it's greater than him and his ability? I was hoping, but I think he's using a mule in one case that I heard of. So it's not directly him, but it's through someone else that has been was able to do it i don't know some people are saying that maybe he has stacked away some cash from his frauds that has never been confirmed if there are but we have some information that there might be more company frauds going about that hasn't

been discovered yet that might come out i that's the biggest question for me how he but i think he's being a bit protected, gotten some information as well, that there's a certain type of people around him that would necessarily care where the money comes from or how to get that money. They indulge just in money in general and if you know what I mean. So it's found his people kind of in his world. That makes it possible for him. And for example, now he's going to make money on his name. If not, we jail him, you know. Yeah, I wonder, it'll be interesting to see how he makes money as name. I think only pressed, obviously no like brands or anything would ever associate with him.

It'll be interesting to see who and why anyone would support him and how long it will take for him to be taken down. What about when you get approached from the Netflix series, how long after is this? So you go to VG, this makes media headlines, and then when do you start getting called into like media and like, we're going to do a documentary? How does that happen? The U.S. were very quick.

The US works very differently. I think it was in March already. This was, I was in February, 2019, and March 2019. There were several people in the US asking, like, this is going to be a documentary. Like, it's better to be in it. And that's what my opinion. Like, I was just feeling like, it's better to be in it than not in it. Because they were going to do the documentary anyways.

So it was against, like, but at this point in time, it was still out there. Yeah. I was doing everything in my power to still be in media, still getting his face out there. Then he was jailed, but then he was released. So then my fighting power got even stronger. Like, we're going to get this guy, you know? When he got released, I was like, this story's not over. And I think that's why this story is so special.

It's not over at all. We haven't gotten justice. Do you still worry at all? Do you still wake up at night worrying about this, worrying about your safety? you're in your head are you like everything he says is lies it's all fabricated air there's no validity to it yeah but i totally agree i totally understand people who are scared i'm not going to be a little there how scared they've been but i'm happy i wasn't as scared because that's what he's done to everyone and i just got to the point where he was you know making threats and i got mad like

why are you threatening me i should be threatening you of anyone like you destroyed my life like How dare you threaten me? It came to the point that this guy is unbelievable. He needs to be stopped. Like he can't continue. So no, I don't wake up. I'm not scared. I am more scared of banks.

I am more scared of the situation. I mean, I'm not scared of him. I'm scared of never getting my life back. That is my biggest fear. So what is the situation like? How much death do you currently have? Where are you today? Been rising.

Now is almost too. almost like $300,000, I would say. Because of interest? Yes. It's just fucking bullshit. Every single one of these debt creditors should be pausing the interest on this debt immediately. And like, you should have attorneys being like, pause the interest now. This is ridiculous. It's so much that I, so what I'm going to have to do now, Jason, I just need some professional help. I'm not being in the position. I was waiting for the documentary to come out. Was maybe hoping for some. want to just be kind, but they're not. So I just need a professional with me that can

negotiate on my behalf. So that is my next step now to say, can we please sort this out? Yes. You need to put this message out there. We need an attorney immediately to represent in kind. Who's not, who wouldn't jump all over there? If I was an attorney, I'd be on this immediately. And so, so you have about $300,000 in debt, but I saw you started to go fund me. Obviously, in Netflix, have you been able to make any money off this to contribute towards this debt you have? Not at all, really. To make a documentary, you would think that you'd be getting tons and everyone

would be thinking that we're getting millions. I don't want to discuss the contract in detail, but there's nothing compared to what I thought. You have to take what you get. You're the small part. That's why maybe, I don't want to speak badly about Netflix or anything, but I am shocked about, I felt that all the time, I'm always the one with the short end of the sick to very honest with you while all the ones are making or getting awards or getting

praises for the story and then I'm like well when will I see anything of putting my life out there you know so from the Netflix no and we asked I remember like can we can we get more if it's a success and like no that's not I'm like oh yeah so all the promo we've been doing is just because like we wanted like we're proud of it and we want to get his face up there and we want media attention. We want media attention on the right topics-wise. Is it still out there? The police, the victim-shaming, the blaming we've been experiencing.

Those are the type of things why we want him in jail. Or we want Avisha and Peter questioned because he's using it so much. Like Simon is like, oh, no, I have never been like, no, not a warrant, not a questioning. So, if he's going to use that, it's in his defense, I totally get it. Of course. So I have some questions. This is absolutely assonite to me that there's evidence out there of the problem. There's hard documentation this occurred.

And the fact that no one has done anything is so mind-boggling. And from companies as well. Like he did one private jet luxury car company in London, 500,000 pounds. In Bulgaria, the same, 800,000 euros. It's a lot of money. This is serious. I mean, over $10 million, they're saying he's a product. So it sounds like that is even conservative.

And here you are sitting with $300,000 in debt. Are you working full time at this point? Are you taking a little break? Had to take some holidays off for this, but I'm starting a new job in March. So it's going to be good to start fresh, I feel. I am the Tinder Swindler girl now. You are the Tinder Swindler girl.

I mean, there's got to be ways that you can make money off this story. You need to make money off the story. because you need to pay this debt back. And I think the financial companies are at fault. I think the creditors for underwriting this are at fault. You need to immediately get someone calling these people and telling them to stop interest until further notice because for this circumstance, they should do that.

They shouldn't be making 20. What's the percentage on this interest, you know? Between 15 and 20. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Like, they need to pause that immediately. Oh, my God, this makes me so mad. No, do you think I've been so mad? I've been like, and I can't even imagine.

But I'm like, I just realized so much with time that not, like, how you can be happy, having that amount of depth hanging over you as well, you know? You can't, like, I've been with this for four years. You can't go through life. And then people are saying that seeing that we're smiling and stuff, aren't you poor? And I was like, aren't you, bro? I was like, are you not allowed to be happy when you've gone through shit? Should I just post pictures of myself crying on my couch?

I can show you that as well, but I'm like, it's very, it's how you're viewing people have gone through difficulties that you're not supposed to have a good life. And me and Penilla, we refuse to be victims in this. We want to be like part of fighters, you know? We're never going to give up. And to have someone by myself like Pranilla, with the same kind of spirit that we're never going to give up

till he's behind bars, seriously. If he thinks that we're going to give up, never. are. What would you say? Because I read one comment that made my blood boil even further is when one troll was saying, like, they had this ridiculous conspiracy theory that this, like, you guys starting to go fund me and doing this was because you're still working for him and it's creating more money for him. You have like the platform to tell people like to debunk this. How would you debunk this complete bullshit? What would you say? I was shocked when I saw. that, because I never thought that they could turn that.

Yeah, right? Like, what? The entire piece. But I think we come down back to the, like, you can't even admit that this type of fraud exists or the, like, there's always us as the victims. We can never be proper victims that you have to be part of it. And I can't, I've seen so many mean comments. I don't understand.

I don't even know, as you said, how do you debunk that? I was like, it's in the evidence. Netflix would never ever. have done this, they had three lawyers looking at that documentary or anything around us. We are in this situation

and if people need to see receipts, I have receipts that I can put up of how much depth I'm still in. I honestly think, like, I think you're right. No journalists would pick this up and be able to write about it without the credibility.

You can't. You'd be fired immediately tomorrow. I think you also should put like that number, that 300, like, whatever you feel comfortable, you should be putting your statements out there, be like, Anybody that thinks I'm bullshit, go look at my balance right now.

Look at the interest rate. I can't believe these creditors are still charging you interest that is sick. When you look back at the Netflix series, is there anything that was edited out or not shown that you wish would have been shown? Maybe even more of those smaller interactions and more of the people that I met. There are more women that I met that made him seem more genuine that are victims later on or maybe were a bit part of it, but there was a friend I met, it was a private assistant. there were like several women that I met that wasn't part but there was such a huge gallery of

people you know so I think even more even more of that to show that all the times you spent with him was with a lot of people that was confirming nice guy just you know just having this grand job and I was saying that and I think like all the pictures of him shows that this flashy but he creates the persona that you love and with me and it was so nice to meet for you like he's such a a normal, funny guy that you would love to hang around with. So he's not this douche, selfie kind of, like, guy, like with you. We were having, like, movie nights together and just, like, cuddling and talking about, like, it was a, want that to be out there.

That, for me, it was, like, a true relationship. And I saw a future with him, you know? And, yeah. I agree with that. I do think, like, looking back on it, I don't think there's, like, the documentary, on what you're telling me, provides enough context for how real this fake image of him and how deep it was, right? This wasn't like a one-time thing where, like, he just pulled something over your eye. Like, this was so deep and so emotionally connected and 150, 200 hours dedicated

to fucking with someone's brain. I mean, that documentary doesn't show that context. And other people fucking with you as well. And that's what I mean. It wasn't only his words. It's just what other people that came met like drivers or like, Peter, like other people you talked to like that you were with him and like that said he was a great guy and was going really. And then you were like, it's like, yeah. Okay. It's just not something he tells me he's going to do. Like he does it already for his dear friends. He told me how much his friends and family like meant to him, you know, and what he would do for them. And I think it's a lot of big difference between just all. asking for some random money, suddenly I'm in danger. I get that that sounds really, really bad,

but it wasn't exactly how it happened. We're going to wrap up here. This has been an incredible interview. Before we wrap up, I just have two questions. And then I need your trading secret. So everyone who comes on gives us a training secret about their life experience. Clearly, you've gone through a deep, deep experience. And I'm sure you have a secret you've learned about yourself or you can instill on others to avoid some of these situations. Before I do that, the two questions I have. The first one is, what is next for you? You hit rock bottom. You have this debt. You have to rebuild your life. What is next? What can we expect? Oh, well, I think we just have to wait, wait and see. But like, I have my small organization that I really want to build up,

like helping fraud victims or people in depth as now that I've been in myself is so close to my heart. So to change laws, legislation, mental health and peer support for fraud victims is super important to me. So if that's something I can do in the future, that that's the win for me, because that's my passions, I would say, right now. Yeah. Well, we'll be excited to see how you recoup from this. The last question I got from you, now you are the Tinder gal that had been Swindled. That is your brand. And I saw in the documentary, you're still on Tinder. You're still rocking it and looking for that one person? Yeah. Maybe I'm like, I'm dating someone as well. So we see how that ends up. But as I always say, I never know how my relationships are going.

I'll tell you what. You need to put this person through the damn ringer, please. He has. He's been really, really supportive. I haven't been with anyone that's been so supportive and I'm so proud of what I'm doing, and that is really important to me that a lot of men have seen this as I felt that I had baggage or I've been deleted from matches and stuff on dating apps, you know, it's not the best feeling when you give their Insta, for example. And it's out on my Instar, if you Google my name, and then they delete you. So you felt a bit, will I ever find love because of this? And it's kind of nice to find someone that takes you with everything, the good and the bad. Well, I know you said you're a Bachelor fan. I'll tell you what. If you

are ever single and you want to become the Bachelorette, go put that out there, go tweet that. I think you would make a great Bachelorette. Well, I'll call some producer and be like, go call Not that I have any pull, but I would be cool to see your Bachelorette story. Oh, my God. And then I was like, how many men are they then? It's like so many. 30 of them and all of them go through background checks and credit checks and won't get in these scumbags.

All right, this has been amazing. We got to wrap with your trading secret. Given the experience you've had and like the lessons you've learned through what you've endured, what is your one trading secret you can leave us with? I think that you have to be true to your. values. I think that's what I see now with all the opportunities that is arising. Be true to yourself and don't go against your values and that money, the highest value is and it'll have some quality with what you're doing in your life. So I think that's my values are so important. I think

that is what I've learned in all of this. Well, thank you so much for sharing the story and more of the specifics we didn't see in the documentary. The contact is incredible. And I think the things that you guys, your team of fighters is doing to make an impact is just so important. And literally this story since the day I saw it, there's been a part of my day for at least a few seconds or a few minutes or even longer that I've thought about what you guys have gone through and how ridiculous this is. So just keep sharing it. Keep doing amazing things. I hope you become any of these haters out there, I hope you become the biggest superstar in the planet from telling this story. And that you can pay down this 300k. Fuck this in.

interest on this money. That should be held. I think you should be forgiven of every 300k to these creditors, to these creditors is nothing. It is a, it's a penny in the freaking ocean for them. And they, they would actually get 300k of PR value by coming out and saying that they've eliminated your debt. And I am going to keep screaming about that, loud and proud, but thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Jason. It was so nice. And I hope to meet you someday. If I ever come to L.A., you know. Kalyn and I would absolutely love that. So please, I'm going to keep in touch with you.

This 300K is going to get paid down. I want to be a part of getting this paid down. And my last question for you is anybody that has heard your story and wants more of you or wants to donate to your GoFummi or anything that you have going on, where can they find you? Oh, yeah. I have my insta, Cecilia underscore. And on Twitter, Cecilia Fielhoi, but I know my name is super weird. But I am on all social media.

I love social media in general. So you can find me. Either Cecilia Fjelhoi or just Cecilia underscore and I'm there. And yeah, I'm trying to get the blue tick now because there's so many fake ones out there. And people are trying to scam people. So you don't have the blue check yet? I haven't gotten it yet. Okay, we got to get to the blue check.

We're going to put that out into existence. Thank you. But keep doing what you're doing. Keep telling your story. Thank you for telling your story with us. We'll sure be in touch. And I can't, I mean, this is, obviously, the brands I run are all called restart. This is the ultimate restart.

And I'm so excited to see what's next for you, though, because it's literally just, it's, it's the sky. The sky's the limit from here. Oh, thank you. Well, thank you for it. Ding, ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell to the Tinder swindler. episode. Oh, highs and lows, frustration, blood boiling tears, all the emotions, nothing fires me up more than this story. And I get so pissed off thinking about this fraudulent con man

getting away with what he's gotten away with and what he probably is still getting away with. David, it makes me want to lose my shit. Enough of me talking. Let's kick it to you, the curious Canadian, you got to hear this interview and just listen to it right now. Tell me what you're thinking. I've never seen your energy so low because I know how emotionally exhausted you are for her, for this story, how much you're, honestly, I think controlling your anger right now because that was an emotional rollercoaster. And anybody who listens to that, who watches a documentary, who reads about this

and wants to victimize her, needs to reevaluate their life. reevaluate everything. It's so, it was, it was, it was like almost so draining, just even hearing this story, thinking about everything she's undergone and still undergoing 300K of freaking debt. And the fact that this is happening day in and day out, not only with this Twindler Swindler, Tinder Swindler piece of shit, but so many people that are being taken advantage of. It's just frustrating. All right. I'm going to do some right now that's not going to help your mood, but I need to do it.

Because I don't know if you're aware of this, but he broke his silence today. So I was not aware of this. This is news to me. What do you got? So he broke his silence today. And I'm just going to read you some of the quotes from his interview. Okay. Who did he interview with?

He interviewed with Inside Edition. Wow. Okay. And he interviewed. He did a video interview with his new girlfriend. Okay. Who's an Israeli model. Model.

I've seen that. I'm just going to read you some quotes and I want your reaction. Okay. Quote, I just was a single. guy who wanted to meet some girls on Tinder. What else did he say? I'm a legit businessman. He denies any wrongdoing. None of the girls in the in the documentary were conned and none of them were threatened. He denied ever presenting himself as the son of Israeli Russian diamond tycoon Lev Levive. Asked how he was able to fund his lavish lifestyle. He said he had bought Bitcoin in

2011. I don't need to say how much it's worth now. That was his thing. He says he has no regrets. Do I feel bad for something I didn't do? No. I feel bad for whatever happened to myself. I want to clear my name. I want to say to the world that this is not true. He says the girlfriend comes on and says she's never,

he's never asked her for money, calls the documentary fake. He goes, I'm not a fraud and I'm not fake. People don't know me so they cannot judge me. I'm the biggest gentleman in the world, he said. He is a scumbag and he's full of shit and she's getting paid to say what she's saying. And if he had Bitcoin,

he wants to clear his name. name. Come clear your name. First of all, you can't clear your name because you have people that are journalists that have gone through the due diligence to see the evidence that you have sent these people. You have auditors for Amex going through every single transaction saying, Dave, that he is part of this. He has been in jail before for this. He has been in jail again prosecuted for fraudulent passports. He's full of shit. Yes, I was just going to say he got caught with fake passports. How are you going to say you never presented yourself with the son of the Diamond Tycoon?

You sent her a fake paste up. So she can get more money to send to you. The fake picture. You are clearly full of shit. And he just keeps lying and shame on insider edition for not calling his ass out right in the interview. If that was a good interviewer, that person would have had every single fact lined up

and challenged his ass. Also, you want to clear your name? First of all, you can't clear your name. That was my original point. But if you think you can, why don't we talk about, show your bick, Bitcoin. How much did you buy it? Well, that's the thing. He'll put fraudulent, you know, he'll make fraudulent statements. But there's probably ways to show how much you've bought. Show us that you've made $100 million off it. He is a sicko. I've never seen a human being doubled down on something so much in my life, no matter what it is. The extent that he goes to manipulate these people and the amount of people that he has involved and the minute situations that he does, when she said he plants seeds, I was like, fuck, he is planting the Amazon jungle of seeds. One thing I want to put out there because there was a lot of numbers that

she said in pounds in The Curious Canadian, the only question that I had, there were no business topics I didn't get. There were no definitions, but one pound equals 1.35 USD. So whatever she said, it's worse. Right. It's way worse. So yeah, $1. I saw the conversion again. So it's a little different, but one United States dollar I see is 0.74 pounds sterling. So, right, like it would be if you had 185,000 pounds, that's 250,000 U.S. dollars. Now, the thing I also want to put out there, I told my dad I was interviewing her, I was like, you've got to go watch this documentary because I think you'll like it. And he watched it. And he called me, he's like, what an idiot. Are you kidding me? Like, how did she do that? And I, like, stopped him in his tracks. And I was like,

I get that as a natural first reaction because that was mine. But let's think through this, right? Let's put some depth through it, especially after I just got the interviewer. Think about how many people were in on this. Think about how many moving parts there were. This is a full out professional with an army of people working behind him. And I could tell you I would have gotten swindled at some level too. And I have gotten swindled. I actually write about this in my book when Uncle Tom and I were traveling and we were on a train and we had our bags with us and we didn't know you had to get a ticket. Well, it finds out you didn't have to get a ticket. But these guys saw us go on the train without getting a ticket.

Girl next to us, these guys come in. They're big dudes, and they have this like a merchant service, handheld merchant service system with these jackets. They go to the girl next to us. Show us your ticket. She shows the ticket. Okay, you're good. Goes to Tom and I.

Show us your ticket. We don't have the ticket. Okay, step out as we land. We get there. The girl goes off and the guy goes, you guys don't have tickets. You're going to have to pay a fee for that. And we're like, what kind of fee? And he goes, you're going to have to pay us euro.

and he's like cash and then his voice got sterner cash right now and he kind of cornered us and i with uncle tom what am i going to do and so i quickly negotiated with these guys a low dollar amount i go listen we're use all cards i got 30 euro you're going to take this 30 euro we're walking down the stairs when we pass those cops we're not going to say a word in the story's over that was a setup that girl was with them those two guys were with them they had us all planned out there's some of this stuff you just can't get out of and when you got eight people working against you, that's one of the things you just can't avoid, especially when it's stringing on your heart like that.

Yes, it's just disgusting. And I really just can't get over the fact. And we watched this together in Nashville for the second time, the day before that you interviewed her, and we just kept looking at each other being like, the extent, the extent that the absorbent extent that he would go to showcase his wealth, anyone who says, how do you fall for this? How could you not? He meets her, sends her home and a driver to pack for their first trip together.

after their first date, and we're like, oh, man, he has drivers. Like, how much is he paying the driver? The driver is driving a Rolls-Royce. Like, how do you just think, oh, this is made up? This guy is a fraudster. No, I'm sorry, but when you're taking a Rolls-Royce to a private jet, no one's in their peanut brain imagination could think that someone could be swindling money to pay for that.

It's just impossible. And I don't think anybody thinks rationally when you're pressured, right? Like, if I talk to someone who I love or I care for, I trust, and I use a tone like, I need your help. I need your help and I need it right now. This is what's going to happen. I could be in serious trouble. I need you to send me $10,000 or I'm done. If you have trust in that person and they're putting this fear, instant fear and pressure and time sensitivity, you're not thinking rationally. You're thinking how to solve. You're thinking solution. Okay, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it. What do you need? What do you need? I'll help you. That's what normal humans would think.

And that's the type of pressure is putting her under. The emotional psychology of this manipulative motherfucker is nuts. It would be really interesting to get an expert on, like a psychology expert to see and analyze like the things he's doing and the tactfulness of how he's doing it and see like what a psychologist would say about how he's doing things that are literally pulling on the people's biggest insecurities and gaps. I got a couple things. One, she said it in a quote I have written down here. It says all his context. Whatever you guys want to think however you want to judge you don't know the story all is context she loved this person you can tell so you can still see that she loves them like there's a sick part of her that still

loves them um seeing her cry was just like you just wanted to give her a hug jump through the screen and give her a hug i just want to know from your point of view like how much quickly do you think that american express how much should they be quivering in their boots because the lack of follow through or the lack of standards for getting the money or access to the money or the cards that she had. I just want your opinion really quick on that. I'm just blown away by that because I know the sensitivity those organizations have from a PR perspective. Like Wells Fargo is still bleeding from their PR issues years ago. And now that this is the number one trending thing in the world, not in America, like one of the number one trending things in the world, it's mind blowing to me

that they haven't done the research to say, this is fraudulent. It's mind blowing to me to say, it's mind blowing to me to say, why would they not use the PR stunt of saying, we have eliminated her debt and we have changed our policies and that's who we are as American Express? Because, David, that title, that line could go everywhere across the world and the value of that would be greater than the 300k they write off. It's an opportunity. We talk about opportunity cost and business. It's an opportunity to re-brand, re-label your values and your priorities for your customers. How about retrain your staff and your processes for the next person who needs to get an Amex platinum card and doesn't and you don't make them show 200K? Have you seen the show

Money Heist on Netflix? Can you remind me? I don't think I have, no. Netflix is a basically it's a show with people who dedicate their lives to a huge heist and they rob the Bank of Spain and the Royal Mint and all this stuff. And the reason I bring it up is the show shows how far back on their lives they go to executing these master heists. I want to know how far back do you think he goes? How many, how far back, there's no way he's winging this is what I'm saying. How far back do you think he goes?

How many girls do you think have actually been swindled by him? How many think are silenced because of fear? Because he's obviously a complete psychopath with his death threats and, again, his ability to triple down on situation. situations. I just want to know like planning wise. I think it goes so deep, David. I think it goes deeper than anybody has any estimate of. I think so many people are staying quiet because they fear for their life. Like I even asked her, are you still empty fears? Or like, are you still living in fear when someone's saying the things they're saying? I think it's so much deeper than what we even know.

And I think what she said about his business partner, I think he is so, so involved. And if you did some digging on that individual, there would be some deep, deep things going on there, too. Well, I already read an article on TMZ that he's like Netflix, he's into assisting like the documentary because it's like damaging his name. Good luck. And he's, and he's trying to get money off it, obviously. You know how many attorneys at Netflix probably did due diligence before putting this out there, right? You're talking about Netflix, right? A multi, multi, multi, multi billion dollar market cap company. You don't think they did their due diligence before were they invested in this and put it out there? Come on. All right. My last question,

if you want to keep going, you're in charge of the time here, so you can, you know, I'll be here for an hour. Last one, let's do it, because that was a long one, and I think it's been too emotion. I've never seen you and I get so fired up. So let's do one more. Yeah. Okay. Jason Tardick, you're the founder, CEO of Restart. You got a book coming out. This, you mentioned it. I said, you mentioned restart steps to her in the interview. You said, she needs help. She needs someone to help her financially and help her with opportunities. If you were to lay out a really quick restart plan for her, you know, if it's capitalized on opportunities, if it's payoff debt, if it's just high, go full on PR to try and get it all wiped, what's your restart strategy for

her? Oh, my restart strategy for her is I would build a board of directors around her immediately. I would get an unbelievable social media agent, an unbelievable talent agent, an unbelievable attorney, an unbelievable bookwriter, an unbelievable negotiator. I would knock out that debt by working with PR, American Express, based on negotiating and using attorneys. I'd be filing all sorts of lawsuits left and right that I could for what she's had to undergo. And I would be building this brand. I would have so much focus on her social media. She is, people want to hear from her. We want to hear these things that she told us today. She should be telling it every day in a TikTok, and her Twitter and her Instagram.

She could build that platform to be millions and millions. And when she does that, she'll make much more than $300,000 the debt she's in. She could be a professional speaker. She could write a book. There could be a movie. There could be an NFT on this. There could be everything. She has so much going for her with this story because so many people have been taken advantage of.

And there's so much that needs to be done. So I would put a team around her and just say, full speed, let's go. I need this little man syndrome. I need him crushed. When he said you made me a superstar to someone your own size, I was driving when I heard it almost like swerved off the road. Like I'm so angry to see, I just need to see her and all the victims. Not just her.

I need to see all the victims rise up. I need them to be able to look down on him for the little scum that he is, gum on the bottom of our shoe. I hope they get all that they deserve. And if they get all that they deserve, then he'll get what he. deserves. Fired up, man. I mean, there's a million things that we could talk about, a million things that we could go from from here. But, you know, fascinating interview. I know we were both really excited. So I'll tell you what, though, the story even gets me a little paranoid. No joke

when we rapped. It was like three hours later, and I put it all over my Instagram, that interviewing her, I had two notifications, MX fraud. I swear to God. I had the text message from Amex. Is this Amex fraud? And it was a, and it was a charge. And my card yesterday got to client. I'm like, do this motherfucker, like, see that I had her on and he's like doing some back end bullshit? Like, so you can see the paranoia. And it wasn't. I called it was something else. You know, small things, undone, good, no problem. But you could see where this would just infiltrate your paranoia to the next level. To see her go crash course six weeks of like, basically this relationship was like six weeks, you know, three months from start to like death threats at the end.

I don't think he's had someone push back obviously as much as she has, which I think is. great. I think you see some of his like sparse reactions aren't as well thought out as obviously his reactions to get them in the first place. I don't think he's had to anyone call him out or do research or stop digging. So many aspects. Everyone on this team should be sick to the stomach, especially that girl with the kid who was a con who's now taking part of it. 100%. 100%. You said it best. Bring these people down. And also like for those that are listening who are bachelor fans, yes, you can fall in love in 150 to 200 hours. All those people you watch on television, myself included, fell in love with a lot less time

together. That being said, guys, I hope there was something you could take away. One lesson from her story that you can implement towards yours to potentially avoid red flags, avoid fraud. And David, thank you for bringing up the restart roadmap book. It's now on pre-sale. You could just go to Amazon type in the restart roadmap. And for anyone that's rethinking critical choices in their life, from where they work to where they live, not sure about your next day. this is a book that will help you do that with eight different strategies. Maybe one's applicable, maybe all eight are. So check it out the restart roadmap.

And if you enjoyed this episode, guys, please, please give us a five-star review and put it in the comments. We're reading them. We're watching them. And we're looking for your feedback to make sure we're making the most value and the most use of the time you're giving to us. So thank you for being here with us today. Hopefully you thought it was another episode of Trading Secrets that you couldn't afford to

miss. This one. This one will have me pissed off for a while, but I can't wait to follow up with her and see all the success she is having. David, thank you for joining me. We'll see you next Monday on another episode of Trading Secrets, one you can't afford to miss. Money, living the dream.