Trading Secrets - 43: Which credit card to choose & Why w/ The Points Guy!

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

In this week’s episode, Brian Kelly aka “The Points Guy” (TPG) shares how he turned an amateur blog into a 8-figure money making machine in just 2 short years with nothing but a $10,000 loan from his parents. Fast-forward to now and TPG is a massive billion-dollar brand that has helped millions of people transform their lives. Before swiping your credit card, have you ever stopped to consider which card you should be using to pay for your purchase? Chances are that you’re not fully maximizing the hidden upside of each and every purchase because you probably don’t know the full extent of your card’s perks and benefits. In Brian’s case, those perks translated to enjoying luxurious vacations on an HR salary during the recession. The Points Guy exists to fill in those gaps of knowledge to ensure you’re accumulating as many points as possible and then redeeming those rewards in the most valuable way. What is the most important yet underused strategy for maximizing points? Should you rack up all your points on one credit card or diversify? And how can you position your business ahead of algorithms to take your side hustle to a new stratosphere? We have TPG to answer all of those questions and more in an episode that you can’t afford to miss. Pre-order The Restart Roadmap: Rewire and Reset Your Career TODAY!   Sponsors: Babbel.com code TRADINGSECRETS 3 months free when you purchase 3 months Audible.com/wellbeing Coinbase.com/trading for $10 in free bitcoin   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tardick, and I'll tell you what, I'm fired up this Monday. I think last Monday I was a little bit more depressed because of that episode with the Tinder Swindler. I was just so frustrated. but today I'm energized and ready to go. And we have a topic today that is perfect for you. If you have a credit card, you'll want to listen to this episode.

And if you don't have a credit card, but you're thinking about getting one, you'll want to listen to this episode. We think about currency, right? U.S. dollars, Canadian dollars. We think about cryptocurrency. Do you ever think about the points that you earn for your credit card purchases? Literally it's a currency. And none of us are using it correctly.

And that's what this episode is about. So get ready for it. Buckle up. However, before we get into this episode, I want you guys to know that my book is on pre-order right now. You could just go to Amazon and put in the restart roadmap and buy your hardcover now. It would mean the absolute world to me. If you're looking to take new steps in your career, you're looking for help with negotiation tips, how to network, how to brand, how to hack the crazy hiring process, how to get some side hustle going, just rethinking, rewiring what you're doing today and why to make sure you're achieving pinnacle performance, the restart roadmap is for you. And if you do go purchase the restart roadmap right now, send me an email to the restart roadmap at jason tardick.com. In the subject, put cameo, put your receipt in there, and feel free to ask any question or request any shout out, and I will send you a free cameo back. Now, if you go to the cameo website, website. It's about $120 right now to book me for a cameo. But I'm going to do it for free

for everyone that listens to this, goes to Amazon, buys the restart roadmap, and sends me an email, subject cameo with the receipt of their purchase of the hardcover. That said, enough of the restart roadmap. Let's get into your pocket and making sure you're using your credit cards to the best of their ability. Let's go. Let's ring in the bell. If you've ever wondered about the world of credit cards and how you can maximize sign-up bonuses, miles, and points, you are in for a real treat with this episode. We are joined by Brian Kelly. You may know him as the points guy who has been helping travelers and other consumers navigate the increasingly complex loyalty and points universe for more than a decade. He is the founder and CEO of the points guy, a travel and credit card rewards website, also known as the TPG, the points guy,

where consumers can track all their loyalty rewards for airlines, hotels, and credit cards. Now his platform also covers travel news with an editorial staff of about 40. Damn, that's big. And last fall, he launched a mobile app that allows users to track their loyalty points and get advice on how to spend them all in one place,

a fascinating subject. Credit cards are one of the most talk topics in personal science. Brian, thank you so much for being here today. We appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. This is awesome. Yeah. And so here's the thing.

Like, I know, I want to hear your whole story because how you got this business up and running is brilliant. And they're going to be takeaways from that story. People could apply as they want to get businesses up and going or they just want to learn. But so for my, you know, average viewer that might peel off at about 72% of the episode, not that I'm counting or anything or know that. you guys leave after 72%. I want to give them value rate away. And so I'm going to start off hot.

What is, would you say, the number one tip you would give someone as they're going through this wild and crazy process of assessing the credit card they should be using full time? Well, first I'll say cheap is expensive. You know, a lot of people look and say, I want a no annual fee card. And when you start there, you're cutting yourself off at the knees. So when you're looking at a credit card. You know, you may love a certain airline. And I know so many people who are like, I love Delta, Delta, Delta, and I'm just going to do Delta. But you got to think and diversify, just like your stock portfolio. So get a credit card that gives you bank points that you can transfer to a number of different partners. Because guess what? When you want to fly Emirates first

class of the Maldives, don't come crying to me. Well, I only have seven million Delta miles. How do I fly Emirates? You can't. So you want to diversify, even if you love an airline, I'm not saying you shouldn't be loyal to them. But get credit cards that reward you for what you spend the most in and that give you opportunity to redeem for multiple airlines, hotels, merchandise, or even cashback. So think about what you want to redeem and then work your way back. That is a great tip, especially as you're talking to someone who is all in on Delta. Oh my God, I need to diversify. And the other thing, too, is I will say this, I had a mishap with Delta. And I was like ready to just So I call you up, Brian, and be like, I'm out on Delta.

What's the next best card? But I did call them. And I told them about the experience and that, like, I am so loyal. I have my business credit card and personal credit card with them. I'll even take freaking layovers just to fly with them. So I have my diamond status. And they did incredible things. They gave me 50,000 bonus points.

They gave me a couple hundred bucks in credit. And they gave me like a discount off the ticket. So you know what? You got to give a company credit for when you are loyal. to them. That's pretty crazy. But before we get into more credit card talk, because we want to go there, I got to know how this all came to be. Because 2010, e-commerce sites that were like going over credit card companies and loyalty programs, this wasn't like a huge thriving thing like it is today. So when did you first realize that there was a valuable opportunity for you in the world

of this loyalty rewards and credit cards? Well, so my story goes, in the 90s, my dad got a job with the startup in California, and we lived outside of Philadelphia. He was traveling a ton. And one day, I was always the computer whiz in the family. Like, you know, I was on AOL in 1990, like, three when it launched when you used to have a modem that would screech as you were like trying to get on to the internet. So like, I was always a little hacker in my family. And my dad said, hey, I have all these points. If you can figure out how to use them. So starting in 1996, I would plan, you know, I have three siblings. So all six of us would go to the Caribbean for free every year in the 90s. It was like this little talent that I had. My parents, we laugh about it

now, like I was 13 planning international trips. Like they had never been to like the Cayman Islands. So that's where it all started. And a fast forward August 07, I'd get a job at Morgan Stanley and tech recruiting. So my job was to go to all the college campuses, convince computer scientists to work at Morgan Stanley over Google, Apple, Yahoo. So I had an unlimited expense of account. And I called up Amex one day and I said, hey, can I get points? Because I'm spending tons of money on the road, you know, my own travel. I've managed our intern program. So I take 60, you know, dorky computer scientists out to lunch and I'd be going to all these special restaurants where I was getting like massive bonuses on points. So basically I started accruing millions of points as like

this HR underling. And then the financial crisis hit. And, you know, no bonuses. But I was traveling first class to the Seychelles and all around the world. And everyone that I would meet would be like, how the hell are you doing this? I'm like an HR salary during a recession. So basically, I started the points guy in 2010. It wasn't even a blog. It was solely a side hustle where you could type in what points you have. It would send me an email. And I would say, yeah, I can help book your trip, but PayPal me 50 bucks a ticket. So when I would come home from my day job, I basically was running this travel agency for points because I realized everyone has points and no one knows how to use them. So that's where it started.

And it wasn't until a couple months later, a friend of mine who was a WordPress developer, I didn't even know what WordPress was. So I got so lucky that I just knew one of these WordPress experts, he set me up with the blog and he said, if you blog every day at the same time, same type of content, he's like, trust me. Don't Google how to, you know, do dark hat secrets with SEO. just write good content, and I'm telling you, it's, you know, it'll take off sooner or later. So before you started the blogging space and you're doing some of these side deals for buddies

and they're paying you here and there, what are you making like side hustle versus compared to what you're making in like an HR job? Is there any comparison? Is it like? Yeah. So, I mean, I was making like 70,000 a year. I was supposed to get bonuses. You know, during the recession, HR people got paid nothing. So basically I was getting screwed on bonuses. So when I started doing the $50 thing, it was like $1,500 to $1,500 a month extra cash. And to me, as like a 26-year-old in Manhattan, just trying to hustle. You know, I was paying, living paycheck to paycheck. It was nice, like, you know, spending.

I then figured out I could also charge $150 for a half an hour consult because people wanted to talk to me and say, hey, I fly Delta. I live in New York. What credit card should I get? So basically, I was working like two full-time jobs. I'd come home from Morgan Stanley. And then I had my, I joke. It's like my travel phone sex line where I would just talk to people.

You know, these business travelers just wanted to talk to someone. And then the blogging was just for fun to like kind of bring in new clients into those existing business units. But my life really changed. So I started blogging June of 2010. Okay. It started to grow by that fall. And I think I was making a couple hundred bucks in Google AdSense, you know, just on the number of impressions. But a buddy from college said, Brian, holy crap, you know, you're right.

writing about AMX, Platinum, they're our client. And did you know anything about affiliate marketing? And when he described it, I said, this sounds like spam. You know, I was so proud of this budding brand that I built. You know, people were starting to recognize me as, oh, my God, you're the points guy. So it's very protective of my brand. And I was like, well, I'm not just going to sell out, you know. And then he was like, you know, you could be making $150 per approval.

And at the time, I had like 40,000 viewers to the site a month and growing pretty quickly. How long, because I want to put perspective on timeline, how long did it take you to get to that 40,000 viewers per month? Like, how often were you blogging and up until that point? About six months. I remember four months in, I hit the 15,000 monthly viewers. And I remember thinking before I went to bed every night, oh my God, 15,000 people. This is like an arena. I've got an arena full of people that are reading my stuff and sharing it every month. So by the spring, I had a couple viral articles on, you know, these amazing flight deals, you know, 12 years ago, the airlines used to have mistake fairs all the time. So, you know, there are all these weird

flyer talk is a messaging board of frequent flyers. So I would basically like parse this dorky frequent flyer underworld. Yeah. Pick out the best deals and then blast them in easy to understand, hey, do this. And people loved it. You know, like they don't have to waste their time trolling these, you know, weird message board. So that's what. Yeah. So I would say by the spring, I was about 40, 50,000 monthly viewers. And then it really all came together in a two-month period. So my friend got me into affiliate marketing where Amex approved me to be an affiliate. So I would use their links in my blog post, the same content that I was writing. I had to do nothing different. And so all of a sudden I made $5,000 on credit card in my first month of like doing nothing. Like literally, I think the first time I put an affiliate link in my blog post, I actually put the hyperlink into the text. My friend's like, dude, you were the worst marketer. Like, you have to, like, you know, don't just put the ad right in the middle. So, but I learned very quickly that like, you know, contextual ads, hey, I flew to Paris for free using 80,000 amex points. This card has that bonus.

Make, you know, oh, I can do that. You know, and then I would see, you know, increasing conversions. But the turning point was when the New York Times, they had reached out to me and said, you know, points are useless. And that was like in 2010, that's what everyone was saying, you know, loyalty. programs have blackout dades and you can't use them. Sure. But that was like the common, you know, basically these lazy reporters who didn't know how to use them. So of course, you're going to write an article saying, oh, they're worthless. Right. But I kind of had this contrarian viewpoint like, no, they're so valuable, but you got to invest a little bit to learn how

to do them. I met with this, the reporter from the New York Times. And then he wrote this article that was like, the points guy, the number one travel website you need right now because he had booked a free trip to Brazil. And that was on a day. when there was like a 100,000 point British Airways offer on a certain credit card. So I got very lucky that on one day, the New York Times wrote, and it was also the day that like on the site, there was this insane 100,000 point offer, which went viral. And I think that day I made, I was, I was doing the math in my Brooklyn apartment

because all at the time, it takes about a week or so to convert, right? Because it goes to the credit card company. I don't see anything once we send it to them. So I was doing, you know, you kind of have to do a, you know, conversions, on what, because people have to get approved for the credit card, which is pretty high. So, but basically I did the math and I was like, holy crap, I think I just made $100,000 in a single day. And I think it, when I look back later, I think I netted $140,000 in one day by leveraging press to drive to my site that had content that was translated for consumers. And that was just,

oh, this is my magic sauce, right? Take these weird loyalty programs that everyone has, make it, and then just translate it in a way that, you know, that British Airways offer at the time, you didn't even have to go to London. It was like 20 round-trip tickets, New York to Miami. And I knew my audience was New York bankers, consultants, you know, L.A. So I would just translate every credit card deal into actionable, here's how to use British Airways to go to St. Bart's, you know, to Hawaii, you know, so. And then from that was the day I actually quit my job at Morgan Stanley. So it was less than a year from blogging that I left Morgan Stanley. And it was a year after that, less than a year after that, that I sold it to Bankrate.

I mean, there's so much to take away from this, guys, as you're listening, because this isn't some, we have people that come on, right? We had A-Rod come on. We have people from these reality shows or actors or musicians who have this platform from that big thing called television. This is just a guy that is working at Morgan Stanley that sees something he has somewhat interest in, finds a gap and just translates the gap to the consumer and then leverages media. to get the word out like any like what you did is replicatable in so many different industries and places and people shouldn't overlook that i think that's really important so 140k in one day that 140k is that all derived from affiliate so all the people went through they got approved and you got paid 150 bucks for each card that's converted correct and you know what i knew this business was

amazing i would actually get emails from people saying i sent your link to my 15 family members thank you, and we're all going to go to Hawaii now. And I remember just sitting thinking to myself, I just got to thank you. This person just made me like $1,500. And they're thanking me because I was able to tell them how to do it, right? And to this day, you know, like a lot of people ask me, why the heck are you still there?

You know, I sold it a decade ago. Most founders leave, you know, my earn out was three and a half years. So, but I love it. I mean, my job is to help people take amazing trips. People come up to me as if I'm a hero on a daily basis, like high five. You know, instead of going to Vegas, we went to Bangkok for my bachelor party. You know, like, you changed my life. And that's pretty fun thing to do.

So it's been quite a fun ride to take it from those early days to now. You know, we've got 120 employees and 15 million people a month and growing, reading our content. That's a lot. So when you sold the three and a half year earn out, you sold it how many years after you started? I thought it was 2012. I saw bank rate bought it. How many years? And what was the buyout? So the timeline is started the blog June 2010. I quit Morgan Stanley, August of 11, although I stayed on my last day was actually June because I was worried because I basically was making all this money on paper, but it was like a net 90 payout. It was like the craziest 90 days of my life.

I was like, my parents are like, this sounds too good to be true. I actually, the only loan I ever took for my business was when I quit Morgan Stanley, like 10 grand for my parents just to pay my bills until like the check cleared. But I remember vividly and when that $190,000 check or whatever it was for my first affiliate, like hit my bank account. I was in Madrid and just like sitting, I know exactly where I was. I was like, holy crap, this is real. And then May 2012, I sold. So it was less than two years from the time. And people always say, you know, do you regret selling it? And certainly, I mean, I can't give numbers of what the business is doing today, but we built a billion-dollar brand. You know, the business is extraordinary on many fronts. But, you know,

I was age, I think it was 27. And I didn't want to go back to corporate America. And every entrepreneur I talked to, you know, the banker at offer was amazing. And it's like I needed to take that money off the table. Because what happened was there were probably 100 other cheater sites that started, you know, there was like army point, you know, that everyone created a points blog and was hawking credit cards left and right. So I took the money off the table and partnered with a company that I knew would let me just continue doing my thing. I didn't want to sell to like, you know, a PE firm that would just drive me into the ground. And Bankray was like, dude, just keep doing what you're doing. So they just let me grow the points guy year every year.

We just kind of doubled it. So it was, it was still fun to do because they let me do whatever I wanted. That is so cool. So you sold it. You stayed with Bankray. Bankrate lets you be the CEO and continue operating as is. You had a three and a half year earn out. Is the amount that I was purchase for, is that public or is that private information? It's not public, but, you know, are we talking millions? Are we talking about it? It was a nice eight figure number. Eight figures. Brian Kelly in two years and sicko. It was pretty good. And no investors and just a couple of. No investors. A $10,000 loan for your parents. That story is amazing. And you should tell it every single day. That is so fucking cool. Okay. So a figure buyout, but you remain as a CEO for

For someone that doesn't know how an earn out works in brief context, can you explain how that process works for the three and a half year period? Yeah. So basically, they wanted to buy my company, but as the face of the company, the person in media, like, if they gave me all the money up front, I would have been like, see ya. So basically, they purchased it for a big amount, but I had to earn roughly half of it over three years. So I got a bunch, you know, one day there was a big wire at the close. That was amazing.

It's a nice day. But the weird thing about it is you've got to work, right? So I sold my business on a Friday, and I was like, back at it, you know, that's essentially the next day. So I was like, okay, got to hit these earnouts. So you get these big, big payouts for hitting numbers. And luckily, the points got just continued to just explode. And the big turning point was, and I loved it. I mean, they let us have, you know, the bank rate was kind of a stuffy old company. They were like, don't come to our office. Have your, you know, we were in WeWorks for a while. We got this, they bought us a cool headquarters with all, we had all of our French bulldogs in the office.

Like the heyday years of TPG were really fun. Yeah. So then I re-signed because I'm like, I'm having a lot of fun. And we launched the Chase Sapphire Reserve with Chase in 2016. When I think about my career, that was like a defining moment. Chase, who we had been working with for years, we put Sapphire preferred on the map. And when they launched Sapphire Reserve, they came to us months in advance. And we were kind of like their agency partner.

That offer of 100,000 points went viral. You could only get it through the points guy or chase.com. And it was just explode. I mean, it took our business to an extratosphere, where we were no longer just a blog affiliate, but we were like this powerhouse, we were a media site that had influencers built in and press. So we could help ship the narrative of new credit cards that came to the market. And my mom was worried, like, you're going to be just known as a chase guy. But what actually happened was after everyone saw how amazing it was with the Sapphire,

we created a frenzy. They all want a piece of that. Now they want the next card with you, right? Yeah. So for the next several years, I mean, we still, to this day, we relaunch products. We work with the credit card companies. We've got a pulse on what we're hearing in the marketplace. We've got a big, you know, we just keep growing our newsletter, social platforms.

So, yeah, we really became the kind of go-to partner when it comes to launching credit cards. And it's much cheaper than buying, you know, 50 million in ad sales that people are just going to, you know, fast forward through. Because we only get paid when when someone signs up. So we're a good partner in that, like, we all win when we're able to convince people, this is the real value of the credit card. All right. So let's quickly walk through. And then I want to get some more tips to the listeners about what they're doing with

their credit cards and how. But let's walk through this 2017 exit and see what kind of takeaways there are. So you sell out in 2012 to bank rate, but you stay on as the CEO. You're then approached with Red Ventures, who gives you an opportunity to scale your business in a whole different world. Tell me about what that exit looks like and your decision to stay on with the company. Yeah, I mean, it was amazing.

I had no idea what was happening because I wasn't a senior executive at Bankrate. They basically boxed me and it said, I was a cash cow for the company. We were the only part of the company that was just constantly, we're in the New York Times. We're bringing, like, we were kind of this.

So I didn't even know Bankrate was for sale. I knew the company was like having a real hard, the stock price was, yeah. And then so one day, I just got a call. Hey, Brian, bank it's being bought by a private company called Red Ventures. You've never heard of them. Google them because in 10 minutes, you have a call with Rick Elias.

And, oh, please, you know, I don't think they said being nice, but they were like, you know, this deal kind of hinges. He really wants to know whether you're going to stay on, you know, to help. So I Google Red Ventures. Rick Elias is a freaking boss. He was on the flight that went into the Hudson. He donated to so many charities. I'm gay.

And one of the first articles I saw was that he stood up, You know, Red Ventures is based in North Carolina. He stood up against the anti-gay laws that the state had, the HB2 bathroom laws. So instantly, I was like, this guy's a badass, you know, and a visionary leader, you know, he's brought Red Ventures, you know, into this multi-billion dollar industry, you know, this. So I got on the phone with him, and instantly I was like, because what, you know, I was allowed to operate on my own, which was cool. But remember, I was a Spanish major in college.

I worked at HR at an investment bank. I knew nothing about running a media empire, being an influencer, you know, growth. I mean, I'm proud of what I built along the way. But like, there came a point when like we needed operational excellence in the not fancy side of the business, you know. So Red Ventures, that's literally what they excelled at. They were hardcore marketers. They powered the marketing of some of the top brands in the United States behind the scenes.

And so basically it was a match made in heaven. I love it. It's literally like the American dream. You go to work in HR, you're told that the bonus pool is in full. Shocker, every year, same story. When is it full or overfall? I'd love it. If anybody out there has heard their bonus pool is overfull and they've been

over deployed what they should be, let me know because I've yet to hear that story. But you build something that you're passionate about from 13. You exit it at eight figures. You see the dollars amount that you're doing now. It's unbelievable. It's a great story. Now, let's talk a little bit quickly about what people. people can do right now listening to put themselves in a better position from all the

expertise you have. The first thing you just mentioned is the app. So tell people if they do download the app where they can go and exactly the value it's going to provide to them for downloading it. Yeah. So it's a free app. You just search for the points guy in the Apple store. We're coming out with Android shortly. And it's US focused right now. We're going to be rolling out other different. But basically, we allow you to connect all your loyalty accounts because people have way more value in points than they realize. So once you connect all your accounts, actually using our valuation and say, hey, you actually have 10 grand worth of loyalty points. And what the goal of the app is, you can set trip goals, right? So you can say, I live in Charlotte

and I want to go to, you know, Munich for October Fest. And if you've got Amex points and American Airlines miles, you can't combine them. But what you can do is transfer American miles to fly Lufthansa using Aero Plan, which, you know, the average person doesn't understand that like the credit card programs have all these partners. Those partners have partners. So the TPG app just simplifies. You know, if you're not an expert traveling, you don't know that, you know, on the Pond Airways of the Star Alliance is one of the best ways to get to Asia in business class in an insane suite. So or Emirates, you know, oh, I don't fly Emirates, but any of the major credit card programs, you can transfer to Emirates and fly the best, you can take a shower in the sky, drink dumb,

caviar, whenever you want. So the app is like, take. taking all the knowledge of our site and putting it into the palm of your hands and kind of empowering the consumer. And also, if any of your points are going to expire, we'll push alert you and make sure that none of them ever go unused. Wow, that is amazing. You're saying take a shower, champagne, caviar in the sky. I just interviewed the girl from Tinder Swindler. And I'm thinking, wow, you could do this the right way, not like a piece of shit, Simon. It's fantastic. I'm going to download the app. I don't have this app. I'm telling you right now, I'm going to download it, especially. I think about, like, first of all, so many people out there that are undergoing wedding planning or honeymoon planning, like, think about all the expenses you endure.

If you use the points guy and you think about what credit cards you should be using and how to finance it or to gain the right points, I mean, it could change your entire honeymoon process. Jason, we also have a feature. So you connect your credit cards. We'll actually tell you the missed points based on the credit cards that you have. Hey, if you were actually using the correct ones to pay for dining, you would actually be earning all this other. all these extra points. So another thing, everyone needs to, like, look at what you spend the most money on. If it's groceries, dining, you know, home improvement stores, just today, Google, the points guy, what is the best credit card for dining? And we list every month all the best offers out there. You know, overall, the best one is Amex gold. It's like 4X. People who have the platinum card are shocked when I tell them that the cheaper card, the gold card, is actually the best Amex for points. The platinum is going to give you one point on almost everything. It's

only 5x on airfare, but the gold is 4x on dining and groceries. And think about how much we spend on that. So the points game is like, okay, I eat out a lot and I buy a bunch of groceries. So let me put it on my gold card. You know, Uber and hotels, et cetera. Sapphire Reserve is 3x, which also includes like parking tolls, subways. So you look at each of these top cards and then you use the ones that that will give you the most points. And in our app, we have a pay with this function. So even if you don't want to keep track, you can literally pay with this when you're in a restaurant store and we'll tell you, use this card, you're going to get the most points. Wow. I want to do like a case study now. Put all of our little cards in there and then

track all of the money. Caitlin and I spend on the hotel and correlated to how many points we now have because of the points guy. Maybe we'll figure something out. That would be fun. But I got to ask you this. I read in an article that you have 25 credit cards. Is that true? And do you recommend that? Yeah, it is true. I don't recommend everyone getting 25 today, you know, but plenty of people in the miles and points today. And my credit card, my credit score is near perfect. The thing that people don't realize about credit, yes, when you open up a card or, you know, even a mortgage, you get like a little ding, you know, for a hard inquiry. What they don't tell you is that your FICO score, and you can go to FICO's website today and look at, they actually have a pie chart with what your score is made up of. Sure. The biggest factor of your FICO score, well, the two biggest factors are paying your bills on time. And then the second is your debt to credit ratio. And what this means is the more available credit you have and the less you use, the score goes up. So in the points game, you've got to pay your bills off in full every month because if you're paying 20% interest, you're negating the value of any of your points. So if you really want to maximize credit cards, you have to be maniacal and paying off in full every month. Otherwise, you know, you're going to be squandering the value of those points on interest. But once you do that and you've got in your, you know, you're not going to spend outside of your means because you have a new credit line, then the more credit cards you get at 100,000 points each bonus plus the 5x categories. Plus, we haven't even talked about perks. Like so many credit

cards, you know, these days all the airlines are melting down. Well, guess what? If your American Airlines flights canceled and you get rebooked the next day and you have to buy hotel, they're not paying for your hotel. They're not paying for your rental car. They're not paying for your food. Maybe be some vouchers if you're like an elite member. There are so many credit cards that have travel protection and interruption coverage, meaning you use any of these credit cards. You're going to earn points, but also when shit hits the fan, credit cards have tons of protection. So like even if your airline goes under, your credit card will, and I'll just end with like, it's even with merchandise. Like I bought a Montclair jacket. I went to Iceland and we

were shooting a blog and we were between sets. I left a $2,000 jacket. Could find it. I called up Amex instantly. They took the two grand off my bill. And so many people don't realize that credit cards have these warranty extenders. You lose your iPhone. You lose anything. So today's homework for all of you. Look at the credit cards that you have. The points are one thing. They're pretty easy to understand. But look into the perks of your card because people have no idea how much value there is on the perk side. And also rentals too. I remember when I was doing some research. I realized that my, I think it was the MX Platinum or Chase Reserve Sapphire, one of them had rental coverage for insurance. And therefore, if you're buying a rental and then

you're also getting insurance, you're literally throwing money out the door. Like how many times are you throwing money out the door? The key thing on the rental, just make sure it's primary coverage. Some credit cards have, it's like secondary, but make sure you have primary. But you're, you're right. There are a lot of credit cards that offer it for free. People, you know, they pray on people and they try to charge you extra when you're at the rental car company, but decline it, your credit card will cover it as long as you're not renting a Lamborghini or something over. I think it's like $100,000.

I love it. We do a recap every show. So for the recap, I'm going to go through every one of my credit cards. I'm going to use the app, and then I'm also going to call and see what benefits that I didn't know about. And, guys, I'm going to be totally honest with you and let you know. One thing I've got to ask you about, Brian, is that I've looked at my points before and I'll go through the analytics of looking at what it would be if I convert those points to cash back

and what it would be if I could like go buy something on their little site where you can like buy little gifts. And it seems like the values are never weighted the same. Is there a solution or is there an answer for someone that says, how do I best use the points I have accumulated? Yeah. So if you've got transferable points, Amex, Chase, City, Capital One, your best value you're going to get is transferring those points to partners, especially when they have bonuses. You know, 100,000 points, which, you know, on most cashback credit cards is $1,000. Well, 100,000 points can get you round-trip business class to Europe, a $5,000 ticket. So the joy, the experts of the points world, we love to transfer points to currencies and then

book business first-class tickets. It's 132,000 points of like, Emirates first class one way, New York to Dubai. It's 15 grand to buy that ticket. So, you know, that's where the real value in the points world comes from. And the more, what I love about points as a currency, unlike Bitcoin, which goes up and down, points become more valuable, the more you mine your knowledge in the subject. And you will have breakthroughs. At first points, you know, these loyalty programs seem confusing, but I'm telling you, if you've got a bunch of Amex points in your account today, like I'm sure many of your listeners do. You know, when you go online to MX, they're going to give you less than a cent per point

in value if you want an Amazon gift card, if you want to buy merchandise like you were talking about. And if you redeem for travel, usually it's like one to one and a half cents per point. And then when you transfer for tickets, if you can figure out how to crack that code, you can get up to 10 cents per point in value. So I highly recommend, you know, whether you have chase points, city, thank you points. At the points guy, our team of experts, we have driven. you know, dive deep into every single one of these programs. So just Google, like how to get the

most value at a chase ultimate rewards, the points guy. And you can go through so many articles where we take you step by step on transfer to these partners, not those partners. And that's where you really become a points expert. And I guarantee you the first time you redeem for a $10,000 flight and you pay 50 bucks in taxes and fees, like the adrenaline rush, like you'll be hooked for life. I can't wait. There's so many takeaways because I, I, I'm thinking about my Delta. I know Caitlin had, because she flies even more than me. She has like 600,000 in Delta points.

I have like 300,000 not doing anything with it. And I never would have thought of the whole transfer ideology. So that I'm going to put into practice. I'll let you know how it goes. The last thing I got to ask you about is, what do you think like the most outrageous story you've ever heard of someone monetizing their points or that you personally have done that could leave people maybe so shocked or surprised that they're like, all right, that's it.

If I just heard that story, I'm going to work on my credit cards. Well, the one that comes to mind, if you've ever seen the movie Punch Drunk Love, there's a guy who buys pudding, and they used to have a promotion 20 years ago where you earn 500 miles per pudding cups. So he did the math and basically bought thousands of dollars worth of pudding, donated it for charity, basically got a huge write-off, and got lifetime-free flights. So it's stories like that. You can't do that today, obviously.

but it just goes to show if you're an analytical person. You know, even if you don't have credit cards with millions of points, look at it, but you want to fly business class and you don't want to pay the crazy prices, it's an arbitrage game. I highly recommend looking to buying, you can buy points directly from the airlines when they run promotions, and you can buy points at a discount and then redeem them for expensive flights. So, you know, this whole world, it's all mathematical, and it's confusing at first,

but there's so many resources online that if you take the effort, like I've never once in the history, I've had lots of trolls online or whatever. Not a single person has ever said, I got this credit card, but I couldn't use them, you know, or I couldn't figure out how to, you know, take an amazing trip. It is difficult. But like once you figure it out, like the game is winnable, period. Is it fair though? So it's winnable, but is it fair to say that those inefficiencies, like the pudding trick and like the tricks you saw back in 2010 with price adjustments based on, you know, inadequate technology. Is it fair to say those gaps are almost impossible to find? No, I mean, if you go to the Reddit churning boards, there's ways that you can

buy gift cards that you can transfer into a cash equivalent. There are still shady ways to do miles and points. Like we don't, I don't focus on them because the biggest thing is just putting, especially for small business owners. Like we have so many, if you're a doctor, I have so many dentists that follow me because they all of sudden, instead of paying by an invoice, they put all their medical supplies on credit card and all of a sudden have millions and millions of points. So, you know, if you're, if you're a small business owner, if you're doing Facebook ads, Google ads, the Chase Inc., the Amex business gold cards give three X for dollar spent on internet advertising. So if you're doing any sort of online advertising, put it on a card that gives you triple points per dollar.

And, you know, my company, that's how we make our millions of points. We put it all on credit cards. And it's the same price. They don't even give you a discount by paying an invoice. So the game of the points is trying to pay everything on a credit card, earn those points, and then pay it off and pull every month. Selfishly, this podcast has been outrageously informative for me, and I'm going to be taking a lot of action, but I have quite the inclination that anyone listening to is going to feel the same way. Before we wrap with your trading secret, Brian, it seems like you are ahead of time. You are just ahead of what's next, or at least you have been for the last. 12 years. The app just launched, you know, what do you think is next for you, Brian? Five,

10 years from now, where do you see the landscape of the business going? And what does the vision look like you as we're living in this world that is just so ever-changing when it comes to business and technology? You know, I think there will be a consolidation. Right now, it's very decentralized, you know, all these different billion-dollar currencies. I do think, like, the blockchain and crypto will play a role in the fact that there's a glut of, points out there, and there's inefficiencies in using them. So I do see it becoming easier to transfer points in between accounts into cryptocurrency even. I know there's a lot of that on the forefront happening right now. And I do think blockchain technology could take so much of the

fraud and inefficiency out of loyalty programs. So the airlines are behind there, but I think in five to ten years, the way that these programs are set up and how you accrue and redeem will be fundamentally different. And I do think there'll be continue to be mergers, you know, with spirit and frontier emerging. But even interestingly, Qatar Airways, which has their own loyalty program, is now transitioning onto the obvious platform, which is founded by British Airways, so their partner. So I could see, you know, every airline has their own currency. I see that changing in time, well, there'll be mega currencies because, you know, there just are too many loyalty programs out there today that not enough people care about, but I do think mergers and loyalty will

change the face of how points are used and hopefully make them easier. It's fascinating, fascinating stuff. And it literally is one of the industries that almost affects every human, every human over the age 18 almost guaranteed has one credit card in their wallet. So this conversation and the things that you guys are doing impacts them. Brian, story is awesome. It's so cool to see your success and hear more about it. One trading secret that, you know, our listeners couldn't read in the textbook or Google in regards to financial. management, career management, or what you've achieved, or even just some of the stuff that you write about daily, what trading secret can you leave us with? I would just say, you know, when people

say you're crazy, everyone told me I was crazy for, you can't be a blogger, you know, that's not a viable career. There are so many naysayers, you know, at every point in the game. And so I would just say, like when people say your idea is insane or they can't see it, like use that as power to push through and do it. And just do things that you love and you see the gap in the market and just go all out. You know, I was working around the clock when I started the points guy because I frankly just loved it. I'm still here two exits later because I really love it. So I know it's maybe not the biggest secret in the world to do what you love. But yeah, I do believe in it. I think it's cool. And it aligns right with the whole break the blueprint mentality. Do it your way. Write your own story.

don't let the world write your story because there are so many infrastructures out there that we live in that are set up for your story to be written so brian that is awesome congrats on all the success if people want to find you or follow what you're doing where can they find you so we're at the point sky on all channels the point sky dot com and then personally i'm at brian kelly where it's all of my travels but also my loves which riding horses living on a farm to jet setting the world it's all about balance so yeah at brian kelly on insta from the farm to the city, from the horses to the big exits. That is a beautiful resume. Brian, thank you so much for your time. We'll be in touch and I will certainly be implementing your

ideas and sharing them on the recap for this episode. I'm here. Whenever you need to use those points, feel free to just text me and I'll be like, yep, that's a good one. That's my guy. I appreciate it. Thanks again, Brian. Take care. one, the only, the voice of the viewer, the curious Canadian. And it's like we're back to business here. You know, we have all different types of episodes with people from like Hollywood, people from Netflix documentaries. We've had freaking A rod. But this was like the meat potatoes of what we do. Bring financial value to you. And obviously the points guy did just that. David, did you feel the same way? Because I had so many takeaways from this. And I've told my

mom, my dad, I've told my brother, I've told Caitlin about this episode. I feel like there's so many takeaways that I've already implemented. What did you think, though? Yeah, 100%. I couldn't agree more. It was so nice to get back to our roots of like financial literacy. Like this at the end of the day is a hidden form of financial literacy. I think we've become so like ignorantly blissful of the value that credit cards and points and airline points can offer us. And we don't understand it. We choose not to understand it. So we kind of dismiss it. The recap notes that I was making listening to it became my personal notes. Like I was like, oh, I'm going to get it. Oh, got to check into this airline credit card transfer. Like, okay, shit, I got to think about like what I'm recapping for the episode.

That shows you how good it was in terms of tangible takeaways. And, you know, quickly before we get into like what I want to talk more about, your points, my points, like how we use our cards, the guy is so smart. That guy is a genius. I, I, I don't think any of these credit card companies ever established their affiliation systems for someone to build a billion dollar brand and have an eight-figure sell-out. So he was just incredible himself. So here's the takeaway for everyone listening. He is extremely smart.

Like, let's not get away from that, right? But let's also not forget that Brian was working as an HR worker at J.P. Morgan, right? He was grinding him, making $70,000 a year. He knew exactly what he was good at, and he knew what he really loved to do. and he was doing it since 13, right? And so built a business around something you really loved, obviously has intelligence, and in two freaking years, exits for eight figures.

That is literally the dream. That's the dream. And he's so smart that he's making us not have to be so smart and still get the value. I downloaded the app on my way home today when I was listening, and so I haven't gotten into it. Have you gotten into the app at all? Have you downloaded it?

The app is fantastic. So what you could do with it is you could, you know, I wish, honestly, like, the way I'm talking, I feel like we're selling this, like we're getting paid to have them on and we're not. But the app is that, trust me, there are sometimes we'll organically mention things that we are getting paid for a little trading secret, but right now we're not. And the app is killer. Like you can, so you add all your cards right through the app and that it shows you, it'll track points and it'll show you like, you know, where the best places are to spend. And there's also this homepage where there's all these

articles on everything like aviation and travel and credit cards the best airline cards all these different things i like the simplicity of the app and it'll toll it the cool thing is it'll like give you an estimated value it automatically breaks down the estimated value of all the points you have because he said these points are like currency right which is which is a big deal and he said like you said we're not getting paid to mention it but we're paying ourselves and making value of all these points um so curious like what is your overall take on credit cards, like credit cards in this country, you know, in society and how we live and spend and budget and finance and obviously debt is something we talk

about a ton on this podcast. So I'm curious, like, one, what's your overall take on credit cards? I know it's very general. And two, like, what are some do's and don'ts that you think that you have that you're very passionate about? So I've told you a little bit about the fact that I financed a lot of my MBA on my credit card with the zero percent introductory fee. So I got 0% interest for 18 months. So I had the full-time job. So I'd put my tuition on my credit card for my MBA, and I knew the cash flow for my job could pay it off. So I think the new biggest thing I'm going to do with my credit card is I have a lot of, I have the Amex Platinum and the Chase Sapphire Reserve. But I'm not optimizing my spend at all. So that's something I got to do,

but I think a huge thing for anyone that knows anyone that's planning for a wedding. This really got me thinking about wedding planning. Because I think based on how much you're spending or based on your financial situation, you should have the right credit card for you. If you were thinking about financing things for your wedding or budgets tight, you could do the 0% interest cards. Or if you just want to have a credit card that will pay for your honeymoon, with the points guy, I feel like you can properly structure it so that you're using the right card for the right purchases. So that is a big takeaway for me. It's like, Caitlin and I are going to have to get one credit card that will be best for the spending of our wedding and we'll have to utilize it and hopefully have the honeymoon

paid for knowing what I know now. In general with credit cards, if you can pay on time and pay in full, you are going to be the beneficiary of all the people that can't, right? Why do these credit cards offer all this shit? They offer because they're making so much money off people that don't use them properly. So if you can use them properly, you can make a shit ton. Now I got a couple facts for you from credit cards. How many total credit cards, David? Just take a shot. How many credit cards around do you think are in the United States?

How many credit card accounts? Not companies, like actual credit card accounts. Like I have, here's my Amex. That's one account. How many credit card accounts? Quick. I'm saying over the age of 18 to have a credit card. I'm saying 220 million people.

I'm going to say there's 300 million credit card accounts. 300 million brilliant thought process. Really like the way you broke it down. if your interview, you would have nailed it because you don't really care about the answer. You care about how you think about it. Over 500 million credit cards, right? So what does that statistic say?

That we all have more than one credit card. So are we thinking about what credit card we have? Every time since I interviewed Brian, every time I pull on my credit card, I'm like, wait, is this the right one? Is this the right one? I got one more for you, David. The average credit card holder,

so the average person in the United States, how much credit card debt are they holding? So if you found someone on the street, boom, and you said on average, how much credit card debt do you have? On average, how much credit card debt is out there? Average per person credit card debt, I'm going to say, and I hope I'm wrong because I don't want people to have this much, I'm going to say $5,000.

That's a great guess. So in end of quarter two of last year, it was $5,668. So it's down a little bit. It was a little, it was more like $6,000, $7,000 per user. But now we're in the $5,000 to $6,000 range, which is good. So the credit card values down. Yeah. So I thought, great prices right.

That's a great price is right. That's a great price is right. And the scary thing here is that you got to fucking pay these things off because the average interest rate is 15% plus. What of those 500 million credit card accounts, what percentage do you think are, are in debt, like people that have credit card debt? Because, like, I don't have credit card debt. I'm assuming you don't have credit card debt.

So how many of the $500 million do you think have credit card debt percentage-wise? I think probably about 30 to 50 percent. I'm going to say 30 to 50 percent are not paying these balances off in full. That's my guess. I think that's a very fair guess. I would assume almost higher. Yeah, I will do a little research on that. But while I do some research on that, as we're talking, you tell me what was your

biggest takeaway, and what are some things from Brian's lessons that you're going to implement into your wallet? Yeah, I think I'm so excited to get on his app because just like optimization, like I have an Amex everyday card, which I pay a zero fee for, and then I have a Chase Sapphire Reserve like you do, which is a 450 or I think $550 fee that like terrified me when I got it. I couldn't live without some of the things that my Chase Sapphire Reserve card gets me. I paid for my engagement ring on it, which paid for our honeymoon. I have a DoorDash subscription on it that gets paid for free, so I don't pay for DoorDash fees or taxes for delivery.

I got 10x points for all my lift rides instead of Uber. So I think, like, I just want to get on this app because me and you are very similar. If we're going to pay cash or card, we better have value to pay with a car, like cash, but because a card gives us more value. So I just want to see what optimizes. And that's why I have like Amex gold highlighted, underlined. but there's just so just educating

I have a quote written down that he said points become more value the more you immerse your knowledge in them and I just believe like just like anything if you're gonna invest in crypto

if you're gonna invest if these things that you own that you have I'm going to spend more time in making sure that I have the right cards because everyone uses credit cards and they're there

to make sure that the value is maximized yeah and I think the one thing he said too there and that he said was you do pay that big fee for chess Sapphire Reserve. But what he said is like the people that run for the fees are not doing

themselves a service. You really have to understand what value you're getting out of your card based on your spend and then you can back in to see if the fee makes sense because you could easily make up for that fee and some based on your spend. I can give a couple quick examples first too. Like my Chase Sapphire Reserve is I think a $550 annual. You get $350 travel credits every year you have it and it's and people listening at home you don't have to like know how to use it it automatically gets deducted every year at the start when your card cycle starts again if you book a flight you'll get refunded the flight's 350 bucks you'll get refunded at 350 bucks automatically because that's your travel kickback that you'll get it pays for itself and subscriptions

and things that you get so like I said it's just immersing yourself the knowledge of how to how to take advantage of these cars but like the door dash thing the lift thing like there's some things I literally couldn't live without if you got rid of that card. Yeah. And like airport lounges, like all those things. Exactly. And I think like that's a perfect example. If you know you're going to spend $330 in travel and you know other things are coming on,

obviously it would make sense to do it. David, one survey I just said is it looks like 44% of people pay their credit card off in full. This is from a Yahoo finance study that 44 pay in full. So you do have around that 56% mark that aren't paying off in full. and they do it in different standards. They might be paying the minimum. They might be paying three quarters of it. They might be delinquent.

But still, that's 56% of people that aren't paying it off in full. And when interest rates are at 15%, that's a big thing. We're talking credit cards. We're talking a lot of statistics of credit cards. Let's talk credit real quick. I'm going to put you on the spot here.

Nothing we've talked about. Do you know what your credit score is? And do you manage your life for your credit score? It's so funny you brought this up because I was going to bring it up myself. And I should you not. I looked at my credit score today and for the first time in six months. And I was actually pleasantly surprised. I have a 777 credit score. And I don't by any means live my life for the value of my credit score, but I am like OCD where I need to have everything paid down

to zero balance because the thought of debt at this age, since I've worked so hard to get out of debt, freaks me out, which obviously helps my score. What I'm going to rebuttal to you is, you know, I'm as the voice of the viewer, as common as our listeners can get, how many credit cards do you think I should have? And I have this fear of having too many credit cards, which will hurt my credit score. So I want you to answer that question for me

and for our listeners who may have like credit card anxiety or phobia. What do you think for someone in my situation or around my situation should have for credit cards and how will that adversely affect my credit score? Okay, that's a brilliant question. and I'm going to break down exactly how credit score is determined. So the two biggest components of your credit score are the amounts you owe and your payment history.

So 35% of your credit score is determined strictly on all your bills paid on time. So that is the biggest contributor to your credit score. When you have debt, is it paid on time? That's 35%. Now, the question you just asked is about amount owed. Okay, I want to explain this. 30% of your credit score is, determined based on the percentage of credit limits available. So if you have all these credit

cards, David, like you said, and they have a balance on them. So suppose you have three credit cards and they each have $5,000 balance and you don't use them. But then you have another card that has $2,000 balance that you pay off. You now have, think about how much available credit. You have those three credit cards with $15K. And then let's say your fourth credit card has a balance of five, but you only use two. So you have $20,000 available to you, but you've only used two. So what does that tell creditors? That tell creditors that you are a good lender. Because, David, you could go spend 20. You have availability to go swipe away, but you manage it not to the fact that you have 20,000 available to spend. You manage it to what you can afford.

And so when people say, why does it hurt my credit when I close an account, it hurts your credit when you close an account because your available credit decreases. And when lenders see that you have all this open credit, but you're not using it, it shows them this person is pretty responsible because they could go spend all of it, but they don't. They manage it properly. That's 30%. So 35% is payment history, 30% of Mount Ode. You got 10%, which is based on new credit inquiries and stuff.

So it's a number of inquiries that are measured in the last like 12 to 18 months. You have another 10%, which is where people really struggle. It's the type of credit. So do you have a good mix of credit, right? Do you have a mortgage loan, an auto loan, a credit card, a personal loan, like a good, healthy mix? And then 15% is length of credit. So how much time have you had credit established for? So those are the big ones.

and that's when the amount owed plays actually a really, really big part. So I'm going to tell you a quick little story here. I can't like to him. It's going to, when I graduated from college and decided to stay in the United States, I didn't have any American credit. So I was 25 years old and I graduated, hockey player problems. I went to school and I was 21 years old, a freshman, get over it. I called to get a credit card because I had to, I think it honestly was I had to,

I had to sign my lease. I had to show that I had credit, credit, or credit card. Okay. Jason, I couldn't get a credit card. Why? I couldn't get one. I couldn't get because I had no proof of credit in the United States. Okay. So I had none of the things you were talking about. I never had. I never had rent. I never had this. I never had a car loan. I never had anything. I was just a college student. I had to get the only credit card company, shout out, Discover. Discover was the only company and guess what my limit was? $500.

$500. It was my credit card limit as a 25 year old in this country. And I'm proud to say I'm looking over now. I don't use my Discover anymore because I'm sorry, Discover, your card was great for then,

not great for now. So I don't know what my credit is on that but my Amex every day is 6,000 and I have 35,000 on my Chase Sapphire, which is great. And I'm feeling like I'm going to open another Amex. Now, here's a question. Should I, in your opinion, if I have the Amex every day,

should I get the Amex gold and get rid of the Amex every day? Or is it worth having two Amexes? I think you have to break down look. I think what he said is so accurate. Break down what your spend is. So go to, like especially if you have an Amex, they'll give you an annual statement of what percentage you're spending on what. So you can go to statements and accounts, account services on your Amex. You can get an annual statement of the percentage of where you spend. And based on where the kickbacks are best, you can see which will make sense more Amex platinum or Amex gold. I think Amex gold is better for grocery store stuff and like gas and stuff like that. So look where your spend is, then make the move. The one thing, David, I'm just blown away by is, first of all,

I'm so glad that you've got your credit. I'm so glad that you're in the position now to have the Amex Gold. But the one thing, guys, we can't not talk about is this like cell phone protection. Like the fact that your cell phone could be protected, I'm looking at all the benefits with Amex Express. I see it right now. There is a cell phone protection. If my phone is damaged or stolen, up to $800. There's a $50 deductible. And I get two approved claims for every 12 month period. Are you kidding me? Do you how many times I've broken my phone? There's extended warranties. on certain purchases when you're traveling. I mean, I am blown away by this.

So, guys, go look. I have premium car rental protection. How many times do you spend money on, you know, insurance or you get suckered by that? I mean, there's so many details with your credit card. The other one, too, is the partnerships, David. Like when he was talking about the partnerships, I didn't realize Delta has vacation partners, cruise partnerships, Westjet, Kenya Airways, ITA, Hawaiian Airlines, like Czech Airlines, China Airlines.

I can keep going. I'm going to stop. But these are all such, such critical lessons. David, you didn't have credit before. You now have credit and you're in the upper 700s. I mean, that is just incredible, right? I mean, you've got to feel good about that. I feel really good about that.

What I'm curious now is you have 300,000 Delta points. KB has 600,000 Delta points. You just said that they're a partner with Hawaiian Airlines. You said you wanted to take a credit card out to pay for the wedding to get your honeymoon paid for. I got to ask, where, where's the honeymoon? Any thoughts? I mean, she wants to go to, yeah, see, I actually spend my miles on my car. She just saves them because she's like, oh, this is cool.

I'm like a hoarder. You know, but so she wants to, her whole thing is she wants to go to the Maldives. That's like, that's, that's her dream. So we'll see what happens. How do you feel? Where do you want to go? Well, the one thing I want to do is go to Italy. So she was like, maybe what we'll do, we're talking about it.

Maybe we'll hit Italy and then go to the Maldives. But we'll see. So I just booked a trip to Italy Tuesday for a wedding that we're going to in Florence. And it's so funny because Ashley actually never had a credit card when we started dating. So I had to have this kind of low-level talk with her to get a credit card. Now she's all into it. But I was like, I'm booking our flights because I have some points. And then my car gets three times points for flights.

So those are coming to me. So that was just kind of funny how it came full circle lately. I love it. That is awesome. credit cards credit cards credit cards what a great episode the total points guy i never thought of credit card points as literally a currency that is a huge huge value so this was a great episode and one thing that we got going this week which is really fun david is for the restart group we have a march madness tournament that's coming together and so guys we have these uh uh monthly happy hours and networking groups where we

talk about this stuff. We talk about what credit cards we have. We talk about our credit. People talk about the projects they have going on, where they're making money and how, and you can join it. But this is really cool. For the March Madness tournament, we have thousands of dollars and prizes we're giving away. I think total right now, we're at about 4K of prizes we're given away. It is free to join the March Madness bracket, and you will get a month free of our networking group. All you have to do is submit a receipt that you purchased a pre-order copy. of the restart roadmap. So go to Amazon, type in the restart roadmap,

purchase your hardcover, and then just send your receipt to restart at jason tardick.com. You will get a free entry into our March Madness tournament, and you will also get a free month into our networking group. And David, I think I already got Blake Horsman's going to be in the league. I think I got, I'm working on trying to get Michelle, because I know she's a basketball fan. We're going to have Corey Wharton from MTV Challenge.

He's going to be in it, Pilot, Pete, all people you compete against. All people, hopefully you'll beat in thousands of dollars in prizes to win. So, David, anything else before we wrap up, brother? No, bring it on. Love March, man. Just can't wait.

For those people, you got to get the book. Jason and I, he gave me a little hint that we might be doing a little book tour. Possibility of a live podcast on the tour. If you would like us to live podcast and maybe come and hang out with Trading Secrets, boys, drops a comment, leave a review. We would love nothing more

to have these conversations in person and ask some questions from our viewers. Beautiful. The voice of the viewers here. Guys, the reason we had the points guy on is because we got feedback from you that you wanted the points guy on. So if you want other subjects, other people, give us five stars in Apple.

Make sure you put your request in in the comments and then where your Instagram handle is. We'll reach out to you. We appreciate all the support. We hope this was another episode of Trading Secrets. one you couldn't afford to miss and just wait till next week. It is a good one. See you next week and thank you for joining us. Thank you.