Trading Secrets - 44: Corporate Natalie, Full-time employee by day, influencer by night

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

In this week’s episode, Corporate Natalie joins us to share how she found a niche on TikTok, exploited it, and proceeded to monetize it. Natalie was able to build a social media brand so successful that E! featured her on the “TikTok Stars to follow in 2021” list, alongside mega-famous TikTokers like Charli D’Amelio and Addison Rae. The craziest part of it all? She works a full-time job in corporate America and has never hired a team to manage her social media career. From content creation to pitching herself and negotiating deals, she does it ALL! Listen to find out the lowest and highest rate she has charged a brand. If you’ve ever had the desire to leverage your day job and build a money-making side hustle on social media, this is an episode that you can’t afford to miss. Pre-order The Restart Roadmap: Rewire and Reset Your Career TODAY!   Sponsors: Fahertybrand.com code SECRETS for 20% off Grammarly.com/SECRETS for 20% off LinkedIn.com/SECRETS to post your job for free!   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I have no idea what that was. Clearly you can tell I've had too much coffee on this Monday morning, but here we are. We got corporate Natalie. And corporate Natalie is hilarious. Think about all the kerfunk. with Zoom and all the unbelievable stuff you've seen. She's literally turned the laughter of our

Zoom virtual world into unbelievable content. She's here to talk about how she works a full time and manages the influencer life. And there's a lot of tips and tricks you can use for your day-to-day job or your side hustle. So you'll love this episode. But just remember, right now my book is on pre-order, the restart roadmap. You can go to Amazon, Barnes & Noble's, Target, anywhere you think you can find a book. It's going to be there. Type in the restart roadmap, get your pre-order. And when you do, our March Madness tournament has officially kicked off. We have over $4,000 in prizes. So literally, all you got to do is send your receipt to the restart roadmap at Jason Tardick.com. Yes, I've done a lot of different giveaways. So you are still eligible for this.

You'll get one free entry to our March Madness bracket where you can win $4,000 in prizes. And on top of that, you're going to get one month free to our all-access networking group that you can cancel at any time. So get your receipt. Send it over to the restart roadmap at jason Tartick.com. Let's go. Happy Monday. Let's ring in the bell with corporate Natalie. Today we are joined by a social media.

I'm going to say, I was thinking, you know, as I'm writing this, what is the word I'm going to end with that? It's going to be the star, is it the icon? I'm going to say, comic, corporate comic, who rose to stardom after posting hilarious, especially 10 years in corporate banking, so relatable videos, depicting corporate life for what really is. Her day-to-day is self-described as a corporate America by day, aspiring TikTok star by night. She has nearly 300,000 followers on both TikTok and Instagram. And this is really impressive. 10 million likes on TikTok. Corporate Natalie, this is just the beginning. You are killing it. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for having me. This is so exciting.

I mean, I went from watching you on Bachelor to now. So this, I mean, I feel like I've really made it. That's awesome. Now, are you a Bachelor fan? I could be more of a fan. I'm not like freaking out right now. Like I'm sure some of my friends would be like actually freaking out, but it's pretty, it's pretty surreal. That is, that is so cool. You know, I remember my mom would watch a Bachelor so much like when I was a kid. Like, oh, we live way back in Buffalo. And she was obsessed with Trista and Ryan. And the first time I got to meet Trista at like one of these events or whatever. I FaceTime my mom. My mom started freaking out. She's like, oh my God, it's just die. So my mom's a big fan. She's not thrilled that I went into her world, which she calls

The Bachelor. But anyway, enough of that. I want to get off right from the get go here and talk to you about the fact that you were, I was blown away by this. I was doing research. And I love your material, by the way. But you were featured in E's TikTok stars to follow in 2021. Their list, their TikTok stars to follow 2021 list. So before I go into your corporate life and where you are and how you got here today, when you heard that, what was your initial response? And if you back up or had to attribute a few things to how you got to that point, how would you attribute to getting on E's TikTok stars to follow 2021 list? Yes. So that was pretty crazy. I think either Charlie or Addison was on that list as well, which was sane. But I think the one thing you asked for three,

but the one thing it truly is is that I found a niche on TikTok that was unexplored and completely exploited it and just kind of actually probably owned it at this point of work from home corporate comedy, which only could arise during the pandemic of we're all working from home. There are these weird nuances of being on Zoom and seeing your coworker naked or whatever, like just never experienced before that I just, you know, kind of jumped on and brought a little bit of, you know, relief to people, I think, during a weird time of not being with their coworkers, being alone. And so it's crazy to me when like, I'm just making jokes.

I'm just trying to get a laugh here and there. And people are like, you changed my life. Like I'm so, it was such a dark time. I'm like, oh my gosh, wow, thank you. That means a lot. But I think it's just really with anything on TikTok now, it's finding a niche and being able to jump on it is absolutely crucial because then you become your own brand and your own thing and then brands come to you for a very specific reason. Yeah. And so once once you found your niche, which obviously you did, from there, how did things change in TikTok and from your like business venture on the side of TikTok? And where I'm going with this is like when did you realize yeah, this is funny. It's relatable. But there's a huge business here too. So I think I realized

it when brands started approaching me and not like, you know, this is bang energy post 17,000 TikToks and we'll give you $150. It was like actual businesses that I've that I utilize in my day to day life like B to be reaching out to me to promote their products and them saying, you know, we've never broken into TikTok. We've never done this. This is new for us and me kind of taking advantage of that and being able to exploit that. I mean like, well, perfect. I'm the perfect person for you. Here's my rate that I absolutely have still have no idea what what I'm charging, why I'm charging it. Like I'm fully self-represented and so. like I just use my own business wherewithal to kind of milk these things. But when was it? It was probably

February of this year that I was able to really see that change and people want to use me for advertising purposes. That's awesome. So you found a way to monetize it and you're doing it with brands that like you respect and obviously are excited to endorse. I want to go back before that. What was like your first idea for your TikTok? Because one thing that is so funny about your TikToks is it's what everyone's thinking. Like when I've watched, you know, 10, 20 plus at this point. And I'm dying because it's everything we think. But for some reason, no one talks about it. Like the stupid jargon that we would say in corporate America, it's almost like a different language. Yes. I remember at the time, you know, ex-girlfriend, but I was dating and she was a teacher and she

overheard one of our conference calls. She's like, what the fuck are you guys saying? Like, this isn't even English. So what was like the first time that you had this realization like, is everybody seeing what I'm seeing? And what was your first video that took off? Yes. I don't know if it was a realization more of just, I think the funniest type of humor is like mundane things that just, and I think that's exactly what I do of just we experienced all.

And no one questions why it's why we're doing it, why we're saying these things, whatever overusing terminology. But I think when I took off was, I don't know if you're a TikTok user, but girls do the day in my life. and, you know, I pour my matcha coffee. I go for a 17-mile run.

I do this, this, and this. And I did a day in my life of work from home, corporate America. I roll out of bed one minute before my meeting. I make my bed to make it seem like I'm ready to go. I'm, like, I'm undressed from the waist down. I'm starving, like, and just flip the trend on its head. So I think that was when it first took off. That one went viral, you could say.

But yeah, it's just, I mean, because I still have a full-time corporate job, the content, I don't think will ever dissipate if I continue to work full time and be on these zooms all day long. You will have the inside scoop. But that's something we got to talk about too, because when I got right off the bachelor, bachelorette, I went back to, like, I'm not kidding I got off, it was Mother's Day, went to go see my mom, and then boom, I was working the next week. And so I had so many challenges in that year and a half balancing this social side with my work side like the suit and tie you have to speak that language you have to talk to talk you got to do what you're doing but you're also trying to be relatable and exposing certain things about your

personal life on social media and for me inevitably there was going to be a day where those two worlds collided and it happened but for you have while that works for you because you get so much content how are you managing like kind of like mocking some of the people that you work with How are you managing exposing all this? Are you getting any pushback? Are there rules and regulations for you? Tell me about the world of managing your personal life on social media and then your fun corporate Natalie side.

Definitely. So I think like I said, my full-time job informs my content. So I would feel a little bit not genuine if I did not have a job and was being corporate Natalie. That just seems like I have to have that side. But also I listened to your podcast when you talked about you had your one year of like double dipping. You called it or something where you're doing both.

and it was so stressful. And I totally agree. I'm not in finance where I'm, you know, 12 hours a day working. I feel like I have a flexible job, which is awesome. I have a supportive team. Thank goodness.

But I, I'm able to do both. And I'm for sure, I think I'm working probably too much now. I work weekends and do all that. And I see the potential of like, what if I did this full time? Because there's so much potential.

But then also like benefits and things that I am, you know, I haven't explored on my own. that I am a little bit afraid to take that jump. So I'm just trying to balance both right now. And like I said, I don't have a manager. I'm not represented because I'm, I don't know, I just think that I can do it all.

And I think at one point it will come crashing down. Either my mental health will completely crumble or my job will be like, you haven't logged on in seven days. Where are you? Are you alive, corporate, how are you, corporate are you, corporate at all? Where are you? Yeah.

One thing I'll tell you if you are, when you do start to think about, leaving, and if you ever do, is I would just like monetize exactly what benefits are because you hear so many people talk about that, oh, the benefits, the benefits. If you actually put dollars and cents together with your benefits, it's always interesting to see how it pans out. I thought health insurance was going to be this like astronomical number. There's no way I could touch it. And while obviously there's a price tag, it's not anything to what I expected it to be. So there's so many interesting things that happen when you actually do

explore that. Do you have an idea of either from a follower count or like an income perspective or a brand deal or like anything in your head where you would say to yourself, I now have to leave my corporate job, like because this has become so big of a business. I don't have a number assigned because I'm very just the limit does not exist. Like I am so happy to have a salary and have this side hustle that I do. Like I'm very driven by that and that really excites me. But I think If there were a point where I think right now I have like one pillar creating humorous content about corporate America. If I built a few more pillars of my brand of either like dipping into different

comedy or doing consulting with brands because I see kind of the side of that or doing something else, I would feel more confident in taking the leap. I don't think I can ride this bit forever. But hopefully my following will come with me as I kind of start to experiment with new things and do other things B-to-B to do. I love that. You'd be surprised, though. You'd be surprised, especially at the trajectory you're working with. That's one thing I want to talk about. Not often do you see someone that has a pretty equivalent TikTok and Instagram following, right? Like I could think of many people that have millions and millions and millions on TikTok because

they hit the timing of the explosion when it happened, but they can't convert any of them to Instagram. You've kind of done that. You have 300, 300. You don't see. and equal weight like that often. What are you doing to keep that moving at the same speed? And are you just posting the same content from TikTok to IG and IG to TikTok? Yes, I have like a very, very specific hypothesis for this. I believe that my Instagram followers are older millennials who either refuse to download TikTok, don't want to download TikTok, or are not on TikTok.

And so I think it's a completely different audience. The people who see my reels are seeing them for the first time, even though it's the exact same thing that I'm reposting from TikTok. And I think my TikTok audience is a little more Gen Z, a little younger. I'm 24. And my main audience on Instagram is 25 to 35. So I'm like there. So I think the Instagram audience is different.

But I don't know how I just, I literally remember like in October of last year being like, oh, maybe I should grab this handle on Instagram too. No one has it. Maybe I should do that. I'm sure no one will follow. But I'll just try. And then it's just completely taken off. So it's crazy.

And so this has been in 10 months now at this point, right? So you're saying like February at what it was. So less than 10 months. This all happened. Yes. And do you have like do you have a team? Do you have a people? You have a publicist.

You already said you don't have a manager. But like who has helped you? Like the E's top 20, 21 list. Did you use any type of contact or resource to get on that? Or was this just you're putting out good stuff and it was seen by the right person? No, it's crazy. And that's the side of like being represented that I think I should probably explore. but I, no, I literally just got on the list

and someone, my friend Rod, I don't know if you know, JustMe dot Rod, who he sent it to me. He was also on the list. I was like, oh my gosh, we're featured on this. I was like, no way. So I was literally informed that I was. But no, I think it's, it's, yeah,

I had another thought and it completely left, so forgot about that. Yeah, that's okay, though, but that is so why, because a lot of, and the reason I ask is because there's so many lists like this, like a lot of lists, like, oh, you know, and you could backdoor, or pay your way onto a lot of these lists.

So to be on there, like, just without just putting out good stuff, I think it's so damn cool. And it's like, you know what, it just tells anybody you could come up with an idea, curate it, put it out there. And all of a sudden, you could be on a list with, you know, Addison, Ray, and the names go on. The one thing I was going to say is what I think is interesting when I'm doing brand deals or when I'm featured on this list, the person writing this list, the people I'm working with at the ad agency, like they all work in corporate America. They all work a job that I'm exploding and, like, understand that humor.

So they have this, like, respect for me of, like, you understand my life. And I think they think I'm way cooler than I am because I'm literally talking to people who understand the humor directly. So, yeah, interesting. I love that. So with the brand deals, though, you had are, and you just brought it up again, but then you had mentioned that you, you're like, I had to figure this out of my own. I'd use my business experience to figure this out of my own.

I often ask this to most batch of people that come off. and the answers are pretty much A to Z with how they determine their rates and what they think they should be paid. At this point, for someone who just did it themselves, how do you determine what you think you should be paid from a brand? This is just, this is, it's still, it's still a constant guessing game, but I am floored every day when I keep going back with different rates. I'll just raise my rates just literally weekly. I'm like, oh, I got, you know, a couple thousand followers. Let's try it. Let's bump it up a few thousand. know, and so I'll just keep increasing and people keep agreeing. And I think there's a different,

so like I, again, I'm working on the back end of the deals. So like I'm, so I'll get contacted directly by either an ad agency or the brand itself. When it's the brand itself and they don't have an ad agency, I think they have a little less where with all of like the pricing because they're just like they're working in house and there's a little more. So then there's a, there's a little more we go in there. Ad agencies are like, no, this is your conversion. This is what you are. I'm like, okay. But I also have just incredible PowerPoint skills. So my media kit is amazing, immaculate. Do you make your media kit? Oh, of course, of course. Yeah, I do it all. I do it all. And so I know. So I send them the media kit and they're like,

this is an awesome media. And it's just all about the journey of working with me and my followers and whatever. And then yeah, so I think I'm still still in shock at the ability to work with And when it's like a startup, I'm like, oh, are they pre-IPO, post, like, where are they? How much money do they have for their marketing? You know, and I just kind of work through that. Yeah, it's brilliant. And so there's, I mean, really interesting things here that we are dealing with every day, too, with the pre-IPO stuff. You can actually get equity in some of those deals, which is pretty cool.

And then I actually am going to, I'm going to challenge you a little bit here because when you work with an agency, they definitely have the quantitative numbers that are going to help them better, justify the actual price point. But what I've also learned when you work with an agency is that money has to be made for this agency. And so while there might be fees, there's also dollars that could be going to that campaign that are going to the agencies. So the fee actually might be less with those agencies. And if you're working directly with the brand, especially if you have the skill set you do, of pitching them, the numbers and everything else, you can actually get, I've noticed, I get larger deals working directly with a brand. So it's just a different take that through my experience, at least I've had.

Well, and that was, that might be what my secret is at the end here. But I don't want to give anyone 15 to 30% of my deal, you know, if I'm doing all the work here. Why am I going to, like, I met with a manager. And they're like, I can help you with your cameo strategy. I'm like, what do you mean my cameo strategy? People order videos from me. I take the video. I send it to them.

There is no cameo strategy. People like, like, I'm not. So you're not getting a percentage of cameo. absolutely not. In fact, cameos, we had the CEO of Cameo on, the founder, brilliant. And that episode will come out here soon. But what's genius for him and what they've done is that obviously you will get direct bookings, but then they keep promoting you to go promote your cameo. And I'm like, wait a second. If I promote Cameo, the brand on an Instagram story, I'm literally charging like a hundred bucks for whatever it is for a cameo where a brand might pay a lot.

more than that. And I'm like, you guys are genius, though, because for a second, I almost did it. And I have seen so many people do it ever. I'm like, why are you promoting this much for the one cameo? Be like, go get my camera, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I look and they're charging like 50 bucks. In 75% of that only goes to them. I'm like, what's going on here? I know. It's crazy. So what do you actually do for work? Like, what type of work are you in? My type, I work in tech. Previously straight out of college, I was in consulting. So did the kind grind if I was traveling all over the country. I was doing all that. And now I'm in tech, which I think is just a great place to be. It's more lenient. I think there's more respect for

building your personal brand that I don't think you can like finance or consulting. I'm sure if I was at my consulting job, it would have been shown the door. So I think it's, yeah, it's interesting. And where did you go to school? I went to Notre Dame, University of Notre Dame. Gotcha. I had a feeling it was going to be one of those top schools. Corporate Natalie, he's got a lot of brain activity you going on up there in a good way. That makes sense. Okay, I see that. I see that and it makes sense. All right, I, you know what, I'm coming up with a potential career for you, given the fact you can pitch and you know the work and you know the deal structure. Before I say this, what within the tech company, are you in like marketing, business development, are you in the

engineering side, the accounting side? What like competency is your forte? I'm in a very niche side of the business. I do resilience. I like prepare previously in consulting. I'm preparing companies for like disasters like COVID or big thing cyber attacks. So I do that in-house now for a tech company of preparing our internal kind of company to withstand any sort of disaster or business disruption. So very niche. But I feel like marketing and brand is more my calling, given that I'm marketing and branding myself. But yeah. Got it. Is the resilience more of like internal if the switch falls off, we figure out how to get the switch back on? Or is it more if the switch goes off, we will be able to minimize disruption in the marketplace. Which side of that

are you on? Both. There's like the external, you know, reputational disruption that can occur, but then also just internally of our, can we get our systems back online? Is this ransomware attack affecting us? Stuff like that. This is so boring. I'm like, oh my God, is this? It's not. I'm fascinating. I think it's interesting. I think that the world that you could be diving into is like a potential agent on the road. You can get your benefits. You could get everything you need. And you could do these deals left and right. You could be calling up Addison right for a $15 million deal. You're so right. And you can make that 20% on it. You're so right. I think so. Yeah. There's that side. If I hear of any openings, I'll keep you posted on that. I keep my ear to the ground.

But it sounds like you're doing just fine anyway. But I'm negotiating with yourself. And I love the language you used. My rates are increasing on a weekly basis. And you change things based on how you're doing. So what is, and you don't have to tell me the brand. And even if you don't to tell me the amount, you could just say skip. But what is probably, I'm just so fascinated with this has been nine months. And every week you said your rates are going up. What's like the lowest amount you've considered a deal for? What's the highest amount you've tried to pitch a deal for? The lowest, I'll just say what my lowest, when I first started in had no concept. I did the deal with twisted tea. And I was like, I'm getting $500. This is insane. I'm kidding. I'm treating all

my friends to see. No. So that was like when I first, that was my first deal I ever did. And I was stumped about it. I'm sure they have rates to that video in perpetuity. I was reading my own contract. Like, I have no idea what I signed for there. But now it's way, obviously, way bigger. But I don't know if I want to say. You want me to guess and I could say over under?

You want to guess, sure. The highest that you've ever pitched? Sure. For like, I'm going to guess. Is this like a collection, like a package or are we talking one? Let's say we'll do like a packet. We'll do like one, one Instagram, one TikTok, because we already talked about that. And you could just say over under.

Okay. One's your high is you like, like, I'm going to go with 28 grand. Higher. Oh, higher, aggressive high with a big finger point. I like it. Corporate Natalie is hustling out here. You're going to be an agent. I'm calling it right now.

You're going to be an agent. I can't wait. It's going to be amazing. And I'm going to say, I set it right here right now. Set it here first. Oh, my gosh. All right. just like you're, obviously this has been relatively new to you, but so like what was your

perspective of potentially being an influencer a year ago versus potentially having a huge opportunity to be even a bigger, bigger, bigger influencer today? Like how has your thought process change being in it versus seeing it? And what's the most eye-opening thing that you've had to experience? I think I never set out when I made my first TikTok like I am going to be famous. I'm going to be an influencer. I don't, I think I do truly. Maybe an agent is the calling, but I do truly belong kind of more behind the scenes. I don't like getting ready every day and making content. I don't like having people commenting on my appearance or telling me I'm not funny or I'm funny. Like, I don't really care that much. And

like, I find it so crazy when like, you know, I post a video and they're like, that light fixture way back there. Where's that from? I'm like, you care? How do you even see that? Like, why do you care. And just the smallest thing. So I don't even know if I'm built for this world, but it's just been crazy seeing, I think just seeing the money that's in this side of, like, I just my whole life, go to a good school, get a good corporate job, buy a house, you know, just very traditional path. And now I'm like, there's so much opportunity here that just like as a business woman at heart, like, why would I not exploit it, you know? Right. And how long do you think it'll take for schools like Notre Dame and the alike to be like, this business industry is so

massive, it needs to be a larger focus and maybe even a major. That's an interesting question. I don't know. Notre Dame is pretty traditional, but I'm sure another school will come up with that. I think there is maybe too strong of a push for like Gen Z to quit everything and pursue your dream. And there's less less, you know, risk aversion. Like there's, there's, There's no thought. It's like, oh, I want to, you know, pursue my passion. And I totally do it. Pursue your passion. I just think probably you and I, like, coming from corporate world and coming from that of like there needs to be a plan. There needs to be numbers and metrics and an understanding for where you want to be, where you are now. And being your own boss is hard

too and a lot of discipline. So I think like teaching high, like high schoolers and college kids to do that is a little bit an interesting line. Yeah. And being, I think being your own boss, as you said, more to it. I think it's like four or five times harder than working for someone. Because you could check in, you could check out, and you can go home. And if you do your job, great. And if you don't do your job, great. And the risk is, it is what it is. If it's, you're running the show, the show never ends. And the second you stop performing, that show begins to reflect that. And the show's got to be revamped and changed and modified. And it's a whole different ballgame. So that's for sure. For your ballgame, though, like, do you think at some point, like, now you're,

have this big foundation, you're seeing some of these big rate deals come in 40, 45K plus. Do you ever think about reinvesting back into this business as someone who went to school for business and is living it and breathing it every day? Like, you're starting to see massive cash flow come in. Obviously, you know the profitability behind it for you. It's probably likely 100% profitability because you're not paying a manager and you're doing it all yourself. Do you have a plan or at least thinking about like, should I get a publicist?

should I do like big collaborations with other people? Should I maybe start a podcast or get on someone else's podcast on a daily or weekly basis? Like any, I'm just curious what your scale process is from someone who's, you know, in the art of consulting and working with businesses to scale, grow and protect every day. It's wow, well said. It's a constant tradeoff because I think the more that I do, the more I'm obviously pulled away from my full-time job. So I think, you know, even me getting on Twitter, I'm not on Twitter yet because

I just don't. I just don't have time to manage another social media platform. So even something as small as downloading Twitter is like a huge decision. And I think reinvesting myself for sure, once I make the leap, yes, I will do everything and anything to make this like a full time successful thing. But right now, and it's so low cost, I set up my phone. I film myself, tell a couple of jokes, edit it, post it, you know, like there's no follow me. And like I posted a video of me running away from a camera in slow motion as a joke of like, we're turning back to the office. People literally commented, I didn't know you had legs. Like, it's only this. Like, I never, I don't move. I don't do any, you know. And so it's just, it's so low cost that I don't

know. Publicist is a great point. Maybe that route, the taxes are going to be tough. That's a whole other conversation. The accountants, the accountants working, but yeah. Yeah, you'll have to get that puppy going. Um, so that actually reminds me, I just met a blogger and it's the exact opposite of what you're saying but she takes on average I know I'm already giving it away

with my tone but let me ask you this for her to post a photo and she posts at least one or two a day on her infeed how many pictures do you think she takes until she gets the one picture she likes give me a guess oh like I have no idea girls are this is I have no

comment I mean take a shot 50. 3,000. She takes 3,000 pictures on average to get the one she likes, and she posts once or twice a day. And in her... Of what, holding like sugar bear hair or like...

Oh, no. No, like model pictures and stuff. Like all 3,000. So then in her camera like rolls, she has over 120,000 photos save. It's the crazy. I'm like, what? And you got to say, I mean, you're doing it like you said. I just pull it up and put it together.

Let me ask you this, though, because I think money is the biggest thing to me that I've seen in this whole industry. The second thing is, it goes, I'm going to support the blogger for a second, not to that extent, but the time it actually does take to create content. And you did mention it earlier by saying, you know, you have to get done. I think some things people don't think about as like pre-production work, the lighting, even if you are working at yourself, like is the timing right, is the light, is all this stuff together? do you find that it does actually take a decent amount of time to get something out the door? Do you feel like, no, it's, it's, I just get it on and get it out. Absolutely. No, I think I had such little respect for this industry in this world. I was like, I have my corporate job.

I have a real job in seeing how hard it is to be in this and do this and do the scripting, agree on the script, agree on the, see, all this stuff. And just then the invoicing, the analytics, just every, everything. that comes from the beginning to end of doing this, and I'm only doing one small part of it on Instagram and TikTok. It's one of my best friends, Victoria Garrick, she actually has a Dear Media podcast. Oh, cool.

She's been in this world, her whole life, and I've been best friends with her since high school. And she's like, you know, I never, I told her, like I said, I'm sorry that I haven't, you know, like respected your career up until this point, like straight up. I'd just be like, oh, Vick's got to post some photos,

whatever. Oh, no, no. First of all, Natalie, the money behind it, please, you have no idea. Second of all, like, it's so much work. It's crazy. It's a lot of work. Yes, I do think there will be a time when it'll be too much, but yeah.

There you go. Well, keep doing what you're doing. Before we let you go, Natalie, it's been awesome to hear your story, everything from Notre Dame to now, obviously managing the tech job, but also, you know, crushing the whole TikTok Instagram influencing space. It's a wild, I would say, like, just a process of going from like a Notre Dame to this world. that's pretty cool. And to see the business side behind it is massive. I see agency in your future. I called it here. I called it now. But before we let you go, I need a trading secret from you. So something that someone couldn't find in a textbook, couldn't learn a class from a Google online, something that is unique to your story, either financially or professionally, one that we can't find

anyway. So corporate Natalie, what do you got for your training secret today? I've heard you talk about on this podcast. Obviously, did my research. You ask people, should you go to college, should you, that's a decision, should you, like, learn these things. I think having business wherewithal gives me such an edge in the social media influencer world of being able to speak fluently, coherently with brands, understand my rates, why I charge them, like, and have the backing and the kind of being able to speak to it persuasively is really important. So you don't have to learn that in college, but just like be a lifelong learner and build your own brand and your business intelligence and even emotional intelligence to be able to

survive in this world. I think is really important. Absolutely. And I think if I, if I piggybacked anything on top of that, had to drop that little corporate jumbo, I think exactly what you said about the business degree too. And tell me if you agree with this, it's about finding like a degree that that is going to serve, like, utility to you. And, like, you think about no matter what you do with this corporate Natalie gig or not, everything you probably have learned in your business world and at university has helped you, like, with the foundation that you're using and all the other things you do, right? Definitely.

Definitely. Totally agree. Good stuff. All right. Well, corporate Natalie, where can everyone find you and everything you have going on on Instagram, TikTok? What's your handle? It is quite simple. on both Instagram and TikTok, it is at Corporate Natalie.

Feel free to follow. Feel free to block if you don't like the content. You're triggering whatever you want, really. Block, follow, share, do what you got to do. I love it. To me, I always, I usually, if I'm watching one of your stuff, I'll probably, like, write one of those words down. And I'll listen at my next team meeting and be like,

if anyone says that, I'm going to call about. Absolutely. That's perfect. Break the whole corporate culture. the lingo. Break it. Make people talk like humans. Corporate Natalie. I love it. Well, we appreciate your time.

Thanks for coming on Training Secrets, telling your story. Very insightful and motivational. We appreciate it. Thank you. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell to the Corporate Natalie podcast. Huge fan of Corporate Natalie. Everything she's doing and everything she is done.

I think it is so cool. that she found her niche, found her opportunity. And again, it's another example. You know, we always get feedback or comments, like stop getting people from reality shows or stop getting someone that had television exposure. I want to see how I could do it. This is someone who was working a 9 to 5 and just found a little niche like she said and has created quite the business.

I mean, you did hear her talk, one of her largest deals that she negotiated over 40K mark. These are real dollars from 500 to 40K in just a year. David is with me, the curious Canadian, the one, the only. I have two announcements before I kick it to you, David, because I know you at the edge of your seat ready to go. Announcement number one. Please give us feedback in the comments, five stars, and tell us what type of podcast or guests you want.

We are reading them. I just read some this morning, and we're implementing them. Announcement two, we have a March Madness tournament that is live right now. March Madness, the NCAA bracket, begins this week. Here's how you can join our March Madness Pool. David and I are both in it. Some friends from Bachelor Nation are in it, and other friends from other areas are in it.

We have over $4,000 in prizes. Go to Amazon and buy a pre-order hardcover copy of my book. Then just email that receipt to the restart roadmap at jasontardic.com subject line March Madness, and we will give you the steps to get you your free entry and one free month of our All Access Networking group. Those announcements are done. Curious Canadians ready to go.

What do you got for me? I got a PSA to start. And you just mentioned it. You just mentioned it. We go through the reviews and we see what people are saying. And people want numbers. And we started this podcast really back to our first couple episode roots on talking a lot of numbers. So I'm going to throw a little PSA out there.

If you're a future guest on Trading Secrets, let's come back with the numbers. Let's come back with the heat. And I just got to say, you teed up corporate Natalie for a couple. really hard-hitting numbers to give us, like, some insight. And, you know, she said the $500 to twist the tea, but she was very kind of wishy-washy on some of the numbers things. One of the time, she's like, I don't know if I should say it. I was screaming like, say it, say it.

Just to make sense on a lot of the stories. And, you know, I doubled up her like herself, like you were in the corporate world and the kind of influencer space world. I was just wanting a little more numbers out of her. But she's a smart girl. She's created a niche. But I was just leftly, I wanted some numbers. All right. I think that's fair feedback. Here's the thing what I would say is even if I think what I'm going to start doing is I am going to start having a pre-production team, talk to the people that we interview before we interview them to understand exactly what numbers they will share. And if they won't share certain numbers, then they won't be a fit for the podcast. That being said, corporate Natalie, I'm a big fan of. And even based on what she told us, I still, even through that process, would have her on because I think she's awesome. And I think the number she did share.

we're fair. But I think it's good feedback. That's why you're the voice of the viewer. That's why they're curious Canadian. What we're going to do right now is every guest moving forward. If we haven't recorded yet, because there's some that are coming that we already recorded, we will have pre-production screening process where we have an understanding of what numbers they will share. And if the numbers don't meet the expectation of the voice of the viewer, we won't interview them. Love it. That's called progress. And look, progress. I'm just saying it as progress, progress, buddy. Progress, progress. All right. Tomato tomato. Let's progress this combo. What else you

got. But I just, I just saying the numbers, A, they're entertaining, let's call a spade of spade. They're entertaining. But I think they're also like educating, like the fact that she was double dipping and you asked her the question, what is the number that you would need to have to leave the corporate job? I want to know that. Like, I think that that's educational for anyone else who might have a side hustle who's listening to the podcast. I just, you know, back to breaking the stigma of talking about money and she should at the end of the day be very proud of what she's doing and the fact that she might be on the fringe of being able to make these decisions. Yes. And before we go to your next question, I do want to address one thing. I saw a lot of me

in her when I was in her position. And I think when you talk about like she should share that stuff, that's still part of the problem, right? Because when I was in her position double dipping, you still have such huge liability and risk of losing your current job when you're putting everything out to the public. I did lose my job because of it. And she's obviously balancing both sides of the equation here. And I think that's still part of the issue in corporate America. That is if you do talk about how much more you're making or you do talk about what your exit package would look like, your company will immediately, you know, obviously have issues with that and use that information of their advantage. So I saw a lot of her, a lot of me and her when I was in that

double dipping phase. But good takes. We already are making progress. I got some takeaways here for future guests. What else do you think, David? You know, she's fascinating and so smart. you can tell she's got a great sense of humor. One thing that really surprised me, since she is corporate Natalie and understands the need for professionalism and all that, is that she is self-represented. And I know that she says she doesn't want her 15 to 30% going to someone else, but I'm just curious in your experience, how much do you think, if any, that she's cutting herself short? Yes, she might be saving her 15% on her 40,000 deals that she's closing. But do you think she's not maximizing value, opening doors,

opening herself to more brands that maybe an agent or a manager could get her. I'm just curious on your take on that. It's a really, really good question. So here's what I'm going to say. The one thing she's doing right is she is holding herself to a premium rate for her engagement and her follower. So she is saying, this is my rate, take it or leave it. That's the biggest issue with anybody in this space. They don't maximize what they should be getting. So that's number one. I'll give her credit for that. Number two, I do believe that. it's very helpful if you have a division of good guy and bad guy, a good cop and bad cop, a good girl or bad girl. You need someone representing you who is going to be a little bit of a bulldog

and is going to get their hands dirty a little bit because it's so critical to have the division of the talent and the representation so that you're maximizing delivery and holding one another accountable. It's very tough for talent to go into agencies and to go into brands and negotiate for yourself, but also be hard-nosed when there are issues. And that's where really the division of those two is really critical. And then probably be able to maintain a relationship with that brand. If you're the one negotiating and then having deliver on the talent and there's a souring along the way, then that's your representation where you can't really put it on your manager or your representative where it's like, hey, they're the ones who talk to the numbers. I just deliver

the talent. I deliver the talent. So I can see how that can get a little confusing. But you know, between that and the fact that she does her own media kits, I mean, she really is like doing it the right way in terms of, you know, being an entrepreneur and double dipping and having a side hustle. She's clearly wanting to learn about all aspects of the business, which, like you said, she's trending future agent, which I see that. Future Ari Gold, corporate Natalie. I do love that she's like kind of going all in.

Most people don't do that. And because of that, they're taking advantage of. So the fact she's doing her own media kits really impressive. what we all do just to give people inside is we outsource our media kits. What's a media kit? A media kit is pretty much a presentation, a PowerPoint presentation, but very, very sickly done by a graphic designer that'll showcase everything. Like where and if you're in the news, what shows you're on, what's happening with your current business, your niche, it's pretty much a whole package that sells your talent to the agency. So usually, like, I got a deal. I worked an angle and negotiated, obviously, for my media kit.

I think it was still like $200-ish to get done. And usually they can go in the range of like $500 plus for someone to build your media kit for you. Are you taking 3,000 photos to find one photo to put in the media kit, like the blogger that you mentioned? I'm not going to out that person because I don't have their permission to do so. But no, man, like it's so funny. Like even Caitlin's not like that either, but she'll have to do for her brand. she'll have to do photo shoots for products and she like hates it we literally no joke like kately and i we will take one photo and with that photo we'll just post it like the other day kately

posted a photo of her and i on a date together where she congratulated me of that book we had the bartender take one picture she took that picture and immediately posted it i love it like we don't do that whole game it's the old adage and sometimes like when you're writing a speech or something and you're like oh what if i mess up and you like you know you write word for where you're going to say it It's like same thing with photos. Nobody knows you took 3,000 photos when you pick the one. So just take the one. If you take one photo and post it,

no one knows that you have picked through three or five or 10 or 3,000. There's definitely those influencers out there that have like perfectly curated pages. And then unfortunately or unfortunately, there's definitely brands that are very attracted to that. So there is something to say like if you have quality content where it's very curated, If you go look at my feed, it's a fucking train wreck. I mean, there's tweets, there's this, there's nothing blended about it. But I will say, like, if I do a brand video or a brand something,

I'll have a professional videographer come and have professional audio because I want advertisers to know I take their deal seriously and I'll invest in if they invest in me. So that's a big one. But it's interesting. Yeah, I mean, people all have different strategies. Caitlin is the rawest. I've never, I don't think I know anyone in the Instagram game who's more raw than her.

And like, I think through. things and do so she just literally says it post it says it screws up doesn't care post it has a photo you know post that's the coolest thing she it's unbelievable to speed at what she operates doesn't gives zero functions throws it out there yeah that's why people love her though exactly i feel like they're a part of it so but you educated us a little bit on on media kits one question i had for a definition that i didn't really know what you guys meant but she mentioned white listing and you made a comment on oh you're already talking about whitelisting like this girl's got it she is what she's talking about.

I had no clue what whitelisting is. So that's just a definition. Maybe there's some people out there that didn't know as well. If you could educate us a little bit on that. Yes, really peeling the curtain back here to the whole influencer space. What white listing is, David,

have you ever seen when you're scrolling a video or a picture from an influencer you follow? And it's like an ad of them selling whatever it is that they're selling, but it's not their actual post. Right? It's not like what they post, right? So what happens is brands so they can get more exposure.

We'll slip in whitelisting into a contract. Everyone should be negotiating for a fee for that. Because what they're doing is they're using programs and software to get access to those that follow you. And they're able to target those people with the promotion that you had already did and done. So I could put up stories for Nike shoes, right? And they're gone 24 hours. But if Nike can work in whitelisting into my contract, they can go into the people that follow me or that fit the demographic of my follower and specifically target them. So when they're scrolling, Jason, with a Nike ad comes up.

And as an influencer, you're like, you don't want, you don't want over exposure of ads. So if you're going to be doing that, you want to make sure the company's paying for it. So that's white listing. I know you've talked a little bit about the difference between monetization between TikTok and Instagram, obviously, how much greater it is for you on Instagram and just a platform. I think in general for businesses to promote on. Have you ever done, and I know corporate Natalie seems like she's a little more, even though we're following is kind of the same on TikTok than Instagram. Have you ever done a TikTok exclusive deal?

I've done TikTok exclusive deals. Typically, like we just had someone off, I mean, full disclosure. I just had a brand offer me, $7,500 for one TikTok. We went back negotiated 10 because that's my fee for it, and they walked. So 10K is what I would charge. I've done them before. So, because I have less of a following than her, but the engagement is pretty good. And I, oh, everyone knows girl with no job, right?

And so Claudia, she's a beauty, host of Morning, Morning Toast. Her husband, boy with no job, has a big Instagram page with $1.6 million. He's a brilliant, brilliant guy who used to work for a huge digital advertiser and knows the space extremely well. That podcast is coming. And we break down exactly why people on Instagram are paid so, much more than TikTok and how that could actually ruin the TikTok app if it's not adjusted. And so we'll get into those details. I don't want to ruin that episode, but it's coming. All right. I got three more questions for you. Fire. One, she was on and you started the podcast

with this, that e-list of TikTokers that you must follow in 2021. You made a comment asking if she paid to be on the list or if it was just natural and then said that people do can backdoor pay to be on lists like this. Do you have examples of lists that people could pay to be on? But the more important question, how much would it cost to be on one of these lists? Let's say I started a TikTok

and I wanted to pay to be on the E list of must watch TikTokers for 2023. How much would it cost me to be on the list? So I'm going to take E and E out of this because I don't know specifically with E and I don't know if they do this. But what I'm going to make is a more general comment that I do know.

whenever you do see a list, whatever you see under 30 or under 40, whenever you see a top 10, top 20, top 30, and it's in a publication, there definitely is subjectivity that will go into this. And I have met with several PR reps that'll say a lot of these lists, there's ways you could backdoor your way into them. Now you say, how can you backdoor your way into them? Well, you could pay a marketing fee to get in there. I've heard that. Again, I'm not saying specifically to E, but you can pay marketing. fee. The other thing you could do is if you have relationships with some of these publications, you may be able to take out an ad in their magazine or their print or their, you know, whatever it is. And if you do an ad with them and you give them extra exposure, that might help your likelihood of making like a top something list. So those are some things I've heard of, but also there are a lot of lists out there that are extremely sensitive of this and will never do anything like this. So credibility, knowing the credibility behind the list you're looking at is important. Okay. Okay. I like that. But by the way, she didn't use PR. She is on the list with Addison Ray.

Congratulations. That is a huge success from sitting, you know, working in tech nine to five or probably nine to nine knowing tech to then starting something and being named E's top TikTokers to follow and not doing anything to angle into it. Extremely impressive. I love that. And like you said, you work your way into luck, right? Is it lucky that she's on that list? Maybe. I mean, she's got good contact and she puts it out there. So earning those opportunities.

She's lucky with the timing, right? I think she's lucky, pandemic, timing. She's not lucky with the creativity, the hard work in the execution. She rifles content out. It's creative. It's smart. It's brilliant. That's hard work and creativity.

Timing, you can't control that everyone's at home getting a kick out of all the shit you're talking about because it's so relatable to the existing relevant time, right? That's the luck part. And I just love how she's talking. with like the lack of overhead to produce like she's like my phone i take a video i edit it it's out there it's perfect that's why i love it so she she mentioned on her trading secret how glad she is she went to the university in notre dame kind of gave her that confidence and really an educated approach to these business deals and kind of gave her a good foundation you know we've talked a lot about the impact on college

and you know does everyone need to go you know what do they need to study what's the output of it but my question to you is put on professor jason tardick hat if you could go back to college and teach a course, what would you teach and what would you call it? Oh, that's a good question. All right. So two answers. The first answer, the restart roadmap is all this process of like how to navigate your career and really peeling the curtain back behind the doors they don't want you to see

so that you can navigate it appropriately. So that would be one. And then if I'm not doing anything with the book, I think it would be how to monetize your digital brand, like your social brand, your digital brand, no matter. You have 10 followers or 10 million. How to monetize it. There's so many KPIs that could, look at this, KPIs, ill. I'm saying, I'm saying business jargon. What a donkey. Key performance indicators that you can teach someone about the analytics of the digital media and how to monetize from 10 followers to 10 million. That would be a class I would talk about. And I would hope that

never what KPI would come out of my mouth again. All right. Well, you just made fun of yourself for some business jargon. My last question is, what are like, I'm going to say top three, but what are some, some corporate Natalie, corporate America, corporate Jason Tarduk jargons that when you hear them now, you want to vomit. Oh, my God. So, okay, ones I used to say all the time, core competencies, that was a one that was like,

dude, get rid of it, you loser. another one was like synergies you know like oh god i think the one i've said there like uh circle back is like oh my god circle back is like a hall of fame oh my god dude or like uh yeah circle back piggyback sometimes they'll say okay we'll punt this to next meeting like shut the fuck up like what are you talking about uh okay the worst one like the worst one and i am i am literally guilty of this and i try is so hard not to be. But the worst one is low, and Caitlin will always chirp me,

low hanging fruit. So those are some of the ones that I'm just like, do you have any funny ones from hockey, you guys say? Oh, man. Yeah, I mean, you've seen like, it's just more like the typical interview is more like the hockey jargon.

Like, you know, every hockey player gets interviewed and they're not about the game or something. And they're, yeah, you know, we just want to get. get pucks deep and the boys were going and we're skating really hard and you know three periods 60 minute game we just you know doing what it takes let's say a couple hockey ones you got you got rister uh you got chirp you got drop the mitts you got uh gong show yeah you got plug yeah plug pile on be pile on beauty um bender bender yeah i mean there's so many

there's so many there's a show called letter there's a show called letter kenny out there I don't know if you've seen it. Letterkenny's like a hilarious, hilarious show. But we have 14 you kids in our program. They're 14 year olds. They talk like that. And they're not trying to like make fun of it. It's like, oh, Artie Beauty.

How you doing, Bodzo? Like it's just ridiculous. But they're dead serious. I can't keep a straight face. Go have a couple bevvvies tonight there, but I got a lot of y'all. All right. Anything else to wrap us up here or what? No, it's, it's, it's, I think what she's doing is great.

I think, you know, I've seen other TikToks, too, of people like acting out the corporate jargon like, oh, I'm just going to circle back and they do like a backwards somersault and like acting out like corporate jargons. But, you know, it's just what this, what the pod's about, finding a niche, having a side hustle, um, representing yourself, leveraging your value for assets. And she's great. She's hilarious. And, um, it was a nice, concise, good podcast.

with good energy and definitely tune into corporate Natalie for a good laugh because I think we've all been in situations that are relatable and that's what makes your content so good. I love it. David, thank you for being here with me. Go give corporate Natalie a follow. Go give David Ardoin a follow. Go find him on Instagram and join our March Madness pool. All you got to do is order your pre-order copy of the restart roadmap. Send the receipt to the restart roadmap at jasontardic.com. subject line March Madness and we will do the rest of the work to get you in March Madness

and you'll get one free month of our all-access networking group so thank you for being here David remember to give us five stars any feedback in the comments but look at us the five stars and we will be back next Monday with another episode of trading secrets

one you can't afford to miss making that money money rain on me Living that dream Making that money Money pay on me Making that money Living that dream