Trading Secrets - 46: Jason Tells All: “The Restart Roadmap” Book Launch and Behind the Scenes

Episode Date: April 4, 2022

Check out The Restart Roadmap: Rewire and Reset Your Career.    In this week’s episode, David (aka “The Curious Canadian”) puts Jason in the hot seat to get the inside scoop of the launch of his very first book, “The Restart Roadmap”. Jason opens up about all of the dollar signs behind the book — the amount of his book advance, how many books he needs to sell to turn a profit, the price of hiring a co-writer, ways to make money off of the book launch aside from straight book sales, and much more. When you see your favorite authors write New York Times best selling books, what does it take to earn that distinction? Does Jason think his book will become a New York Times best seller? How did he get endorsements from successful entrepreneurs, celebrities, and professional athletes? Jason answers your burning questions as he articulates all of the details behind writing the book and gives a thorough breakdown of each chapter. If you want to know the secret to rewire, reset, and restart your career, this is another episode that you cannot afford to miss.   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Happy Monday, everybody. It's April 4th. It's one of the most exciting weeks of my life. It's launch week, and it is book tour week. If you haven't pre-ordered a copy, the restart roadmap. You could do so on Monday, April 4th, but you can no longer do so after that

because on April 5th, it'll be available all forms of the internet, right? So like Target, Barnes and Noble, books a million, anywhere like that, and you'll be able to buy it in stores too. So thank you so much for the support. Today, the guest is actually me, and the host is the Curious Canadian. I'm in the hot seat, and we're talking all things book. Now, listen, I'm sure you're like, Okay, I've heard enough about the book, but we're going to take it a step further. David has listened and read to the whole book. He's going to ask behind the scenes. He's going to ask about potential New York Times bestseller or any seller list. The amount that I got paid, the amount I paid for a co-writer, all the ins and outs of the book. Questions I haven't answered on any interview. And there's no better guy to do it than the curious Canadian. So I'll end with this. The book tour tickets are now on sale. We start to know. April 4th in Nashville. We go to Buffalo. From Buffalo to New York City.

Got Girl With No Job and Matt James that are joining me, maybe some others. From there, we go to Boston. I got Ashley, Jared, Bachelor Data, and more. From Boston, we're going to Detroit. I'll be at the Detroit Pistons game. If you can make it, tickets are on sale. From Detroit, going to to Chicago.

I'm going to have Andrew S. Caitlin Bristow and possibly grocery store Joe. From Chicago, Cleveland with Michael A. and Blake, and from Cleveland to Minnesota at Mall of America. You can get your tickets at The Restart Roadmap.com. Enough of that. Book tour, book launch week is underway. I'm going to pass it over to the host,

the voice of the viewer, the curious Canadian, David Arlin. This is my hat trick hosting gig here, my third time. So I'm looking forward to it. This isn't a Jason Tell all necessarily, but it is about his book. I'm super excited. I want to get right into it. First off, I got to say,

I'm so excited for the tour. I'll be joining you in Buffalo, New York City, and Boston. Can't wait to just see what that's like and just support you on this. It's been such a fun journey so far. But enough with the mushy, I got a plan here, okay?

You've given me a task, and that task is to keep this under an hour, ideally 45 minutes. So the only way we can do that is to get right into it. So here's what I'm thinking, and you don't have a choice. So I'm just going to tell you how this is going to work,

is I want to get straight into some money related questions because that's at the end of the day what I think our listeners want. And then I want to ask you some questions that for the people who haven't bought the book, get them to understand what each chapter is really about. So they can get a little bit of insight. And then I want to dedicate some time to what's in the book and the pre and post a launch of the book. And I think kind of give a well-rounded summary of what goes into this endeavor, which is pretty

crazy. So I don't care if you like that or not, but that's how we're going to do it. How's that sounds? That's how we're rolling. It's your hat trick, third time hosting. David, let's go. Light me up. All right. So first thing I want to pick your brain about it. It's April 4th. You've been at this for a little bit here. We've gotten past the pre-sale dates. How many, as you embark on this book tour, how many books do you think you have sold to date? I think right now, if the whole entire process was done, it would be in the 3 to 4,000 copies right now. And would you be happy with

that? The goal for the marketing plan set by Harper Collins, I believe was 3,000 at pre-sale, but they have big numbers for the first week. So having the book tour will, of course, help us get those big numbers. I will say I'm wildly surprised at how challenging it has been to sell the book as I anticipated or compared to other peers. But if we're in that 3,000, copy range right now going into launch week. I'm happy with it. Is that a hard copy behind you? This is a galley copy. So these are the copies that gets sent to media. So that's an interesting thing. They'll send out all these copies to media so they could read it and then they can get press out before. Didn't know that. This is an actual hard copy. Okay. I still haven't gotten my first one

yet. I'll get it when I get back from Nationals. But I am excited to see it. I have now, just so you know, I, the people at home need to understand this. I listened to half of it on audio files and read half of it in print files as I was preparing for this. And when I was reading it in print files, I was reading it to myself, but in Jason's voice

because I was listening to it too. And there's some parts where you can tell he's so passionate. I feel like he was yelling at me and I was yelling at me. I'm reading twice as fast. It's an unbelievable read. So I got to ask you,

since I think it's unbelievable, I need to think getting your shoes. Do you think it's going to be unbelievable? Do you think it's going to be a New York Time bestseller? I know that's really important to you. And obviously, the goal of anybody who launches their first book. Do you think it's going to be a New York Times bestseller? And if so, what criteria is going to have to hit?

Okay. So I'm going to hit your question on New York Times bestseller right here. I want your take, though. And I'm going into host mode, but I'm curious. When I said three to four thousand copies, what was your initial, like in your brain, did you think a lot, a little, medium, or expected? And what made you think that? I'm just curious.

Yeah. Honestly, I think in my brain, I think a little low. Then I also got to remember, like, this is pre-sale. Like, the books aren't even, people can't see them. They can't touch them. They can't take advantage of any of these. These are just people who want to get it ahead of time. So I thought it was a little low, but I was expecting like $5,000.

I don't think anything like crazy, like $50,000, $100,000, like anything like that. So I think it was close to, maybe a little low. Okay. That's good. Interesting takeaway. Now, we don't really get all the updated numbers. So I'm really, really projecting. But, you know, when you put it together,

the book sells for 25 bucks. The only person really marketing this is me. And I have some friends and influencers and other people pushing it. And that's like, it's like, think about it. It's like $70, it's about $100,000 in books. And that's one thing I was surprised by is how little like marketing effort. Like it's just like, okay, go sell it. Good luck. So that's been challenging. Now, here's what I'm to tell you. I'm happy about the 4,000 mark. My goal was to sell 5,000 copies after the first week. That's my goal. We'll follow back up.

We're going to crush that. I've been thinking about this. I don't expect this book to hit any bestseller lists. I think it's really tough to... I think I'm already... I got the Amazon bestseller, but I don't think we'll hit

like New York Times, Forbes, Wall Street. It just doesn't have enough tea, right? And I think that's really what you need to do to sell more copies, what I've learned through marketing, and even to get the attention to the press. And so I know I needed to... Like, it's not...

a T-tell-all book. It's really a how-to-impactful book. So when you're selling education versus gossip, it's never going to outperform. But who knows? Maybe it will. I don't expect it to make any lists other than the Amazon one that it made, but you never know. And I can say looking back on it, that I gave it all on my got. One of the issues, and then I'm going to stop, because I know I answer long questions, is pre-sale. Most people will have up to a minimum of four months to do pre-sale. We had a lot of issues internally. I'll just leave it at that. And we only had 38 days for pre-sale. So pre-sale numbers were low. The day we came out with it, or the day after pre-sale was World War III. And there's been a lot of action. So there's a lot of moving parts,

but I think it's still, for where I'm at, I'm happy with it. Well, last I checked, Amazon was a pretty decently sized company. So that's a pretty good pat on the back that you should get to be on Amazon bestselling us. Let's not sell ourselves short here. All right. We'll take it. We'll take it. And we'll know. We won't know for a couple weeks. So we'll check back. And despite you saying there's not tea, there's still enough, like I've told you, I think a perfect amount of relevancy for people who are fans of you from The Bachelor, people who fans you from restart. I think there's a perfect amount of relevancy and stories. And I love how everything relates. So first question, answer this as short and sweet as

possible for people like, how the hell did Jason Tardock land a book deal? Tell me about that in as short and sweet as you can. Short and sweet as I can. I wish I could say I had this planned. I didn't. And this is a good takeaway for anyone out there. The more eyeballs you have on what you're doing, the more opportunity there becomes. With restart Instagram, we have about a million impressions a week we're making. An agent at a book agency, Levine Greenberg-Rost and Courtney, is a amazing. She saw what we were doing on restart. She saw the pandemic hit. She approached me and said, hey, the world's turning upside down and people are restarting. Have you thought about writing a book? I looked at the agency. They did Tom Brady's book. They did Giselle's book. They did Gone Girl. They did

huge books. And so with her proactive reach out and wanting to sign me to a deal and me thinking about how I could really make something impactful behind the scenes from the crazy world I've seen and bring those tactics to anyone and everyone so they can put themselves in a better position is how the book came to life. I love that because, you know, you got nominated for The Bachelor by somebody else. You got someone approaching you about the book,

but you can laugh all you want. People who read the book will be like, okay, there's sections in here that talk about, hey, you're selling yourself, you're selling an idea, you're selling something every day, you're networking every day, whether you know it or not.

Like, here am I putting the dots together? Like, these are how these things come to fruition in life. so. And that's what I'm saying, though, like selling. I'm learning. I'm now a restart book learner. You know what I'm saying? When you walk down the cereal aisle at a grocery store, you're being sold a million times over. I talk about this in the book. And both of those scenarios, yes, David, they came to me, but if you think about it, whether it was a bachelor auction, me dancing like a complete fool and earning the most, or them coming to me on restart, those things don't happen if I didn't put myself out there, right? So I think that's the takeaway for anyone. Build it, do it, and things may come that you never

expect. All right, here's a question. This is definitely like from the brain of the curious Canadian because I'm just reading this thing or listening to this thing and thinking like, wow, how did you have the time, how long did it take? Are you actually, when you make a book, are you writing, as your pen touching paper, or are you typing out every word as you come to them?

Like, how did it, how does it, how does it come together to get, like, words on a paper? How long is it take? Or do you, like, stand in a room with someone and just, like, say your ideas of how, and he just, like, types a million miles an hour? I love it. How do the words get on the paper?

I could see you holding this book and being like, how the fuck did this happen? Like, how did this dumbass make this thing happen. I was just like, it's so, there's so many words, man. It's just, it's a book. Like, there's 200 pages. There's so many words. I'm like, did he actually write all these words?

How does this work? Here's the deal. So it had to be over 50,000 words, but we couldn't be over a certain amount, number. We had to actually pull words back. How it worked was I first had to create a proposal. I had to do it completely by myself. I sat in a room for about, you know, eight hours a day,

for about two weeks straight, post-it notes coming up with like, on the wall, like you see from a detective trying to find, like, a murderer, like, all these, like, you know, connections and how am I going to do it? And then I just chipped away chapter at chapter. I wrote, I typed up and wrote, handwrote and typed up, a 50-page proposal. It then got edited by Courtney from Levine Greenberg-Rosten, and we submitted it to all the publishers out there. Almost all of them, almost all of them passed. On the big fours, almost all of them passed. And then the last person, because we had, to put a deadline on it. I was like, do we sure we want to put a deadline? They're like, yeah,

deadline time. Harper Collins came through with an offer. And so Harper Collins came through with an offer and it was a good book advanced deal. And that's how that happened. Now, writing the book, it took about, I would say, a month, I'm sorry, two, three weeks, about a month per chapter, I would say. But we would, as I was editing one chapter, we'd work on the other. I would write it. We would talk about it. She would write it. She would edit it. I'd review it. I'd edit it. I'd edit it. I'd we review it and edit it and review it, edit. Perfect. Put it off next. And then we did 10 total chapters. So you actually, you're writing all these words down. These are all. You're writing all these words down. Yeah, there is no like special type of, I had a co-writer, but I was like I manage all my

stuff. I micromanage all. So I'm writing. Then she edits and writes. And then she writes. And then I edit and write. And we're having a lot of conversations where there's disconnects and what I'm seeing and what's on paper. Amazing. You said book advance in there. Is this just a term that I should know that I don't know?

Is this just a classic Curious Canadian moment? What's a book advance? This is a curious Canadian moment. I got to go back to host moment. What do you think of book advance is, voice of the viewer? I mean, I'm thinking cash advance.

Like, give me the money now. I'll give you the real money later. Cash advance. You nailed it. Okay, it's pretty much what it is. So a book advances, they buy the rights essentially to your book right up front.

So they give you a lump sum. You could do whatever the hell you want with that lump sum. I don't sell one book. I walk away with that lump sum. Now, the thing that will pay off big is when they hit a huge home run and someone sells tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions of copies of a book. After that advance, you get paid,

you're only getting a small percentage of the profit. Does that make sense? Yes. So now I've got to ask you, big over under guy over here, your book advance over or under 100K. You love the over under. Over under, how much? 100K.

Over. Okay. Over under 350. Under. Got to love a good over under. Since it's a hat trick hosting, I'm going to go one more. Over under 150K. Over.

All right, so you're getting over 150K whether you sell a copy or not. Under, yes, correct. Okay. One copy or no copies, that's where we're at. Now, once we make up, once that advanced number is made up in profitability, Once we exceed that, then I will get small portions of the profit from there. So, you know, maybe 10%, 20%, honestly, I have to go look back at the contract, but it's small percentages.

It's like under 30% for sure. Okay. So where they make their big money, where they make their big money is when they sell it and they hit the home run, right? But what's interesting, what's fascinating is that there's something about the book business, which is intriguing. I know we're getting a little off topic, but think about this. What type of product does someone take so much ownership that they will do extravagant things

outside of what they would ever normally do for the price, but they're so proud of it? You think about like Will Smith, relevant, like when his book came out, he was probably doing all these speaking events where he would charge like hundreds of thousands of dollars and he's posting about it left and right where he would probably charge half a million to a million dollars. He is doing so much marketing greater than the advance he's getting. And for me, at a much smaller scale, I have done so much more marketing than the retail value of the advance I get. If you look at the retail value of the amount I've marketed this book, podcast ads, posts, stories, tweets, LinkedIn, speaking events, book tours, all this stuff. You're talking so much more than what the advance was.

It's an interesting business. And who wins here, the publisher? Yeah, that's true. Because people take so much pride in it. It's such a pride thing. It really is such a pride thing. Would you say that the next question I had was, would you say that's the most surprising thing then about the book writing process is just like the overall give and take of what you've put in? The hardest thing about it is when you're trying to connect chapters that you wrote months ago.

And we're living in this world that is so ever changing. It's changing by the fucking second. Like it's changing so quick. So you look back at chapter one. You're like, whoa, what I said is so irrelevant to right now. So keeping things evergreen is really challenging, connecting the chapters. and then by far the toughest is this whole marketing thing. I think people think, like, you're with a Big Five publisher.

Like, you know, it just sells. No, the only way it's going to sell is it's you. And then, yes, once it's on a retailer that obviously helps when it's on shelves, but the whole pre-sale process, it's literally just you. It's a wild, wild thing. To take it back a couple steps here, the person that you mentioned that you would bounce ideas off and kind of be in that creative writing process

while you were doing the book, is that your ghost writer? Yes. So I have a ghostwriter. Yes. Ghostwriter, co-writer. Yes. Okay. And that is an expense to you or to the? Great question. Great question. So for the proposal, I did it all myself, right? Once you get the deal and the advance, now I have money, I can use that money, take it and run and just write the book, or I can hire a co-writer. To hire a co-writer, I'm learning a little bit more about this, but usually the minimum amount to hire a co-writer is $30,000. The interesting thing, though, as I've learned, is that the agent actually booked the co-writer, so you're going through the agent, so there could be

padding where the agent is actually taking some of that and then hiring the co-writer. But for my deal, the price tag for my co-writer, she was very experienced and really good, was $55,000. Now, what happened, though, is I said there's no way. I'm not paying over $30. I'm not paying $30. And I'm almost certain the deal came to, I think it was around $33,000 I ended up paying. I paid $33,000. And she's never done a deal or so I've been told at that low of rate, but she really liked the idea and the concept. So what she did was she took a commission. So after the book reaches the advance in profitability, she will get a small percentage of what I get

until she hits 55K and then she's out. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Yeah. Well, it makes perfect sense now that I've read the book. So I know what negotiations is and all that stuff. So, yeah, no, we're good. Exactly.

Now the funny backstory I got to tell this is she is, her name is Susanna, She's unbelievable, and she's in, I believe, her 70s. And the, we never met in person. It was always virtual. So the disconnect in my storytelling in her writing early on was insane, right? Like, I'd be like, I'm not trying to make fun of her, but it'd be like jeepers, creepers. And I'd be like, no, no, no. I would say like, holy fuck.

And she'd be like, what? Excuse me? Or it'd be like, yeah, I was like, no, no, no, delete that. No, no. I would say shit show, complete disaster. like, what's a shit show? Like, if we could have got the blooper reel of her trying to learn my voice, it was, uh, Jason, this, this says you were putting Xanax in a listerine packet. There must be a typo in here. Oh, no, that's actually what happened. So I'd never sit down

with her. We'll get to that in a little bit. I'd have a sit down with her, though, and be like, listen, uh, I, just so you know, like, can you handle this? Like, I say shit, fuck it. You know, all this stuff. She's like, all right, I'll fetch you your response. I could fucking handle it. And I'm like, all right, let's go. I love it. All right. So other than book sales and your book advance, is there any other way that you make money off the book? I mean, I guess like appearances and stuff if people want to pay you to promote your book. But is there really any other way to make money off the book? Other way to make money. So I mean, a lot of books, I don't expect this one, turn to TV shows. You can make money off that. If it goes international, like you can, some other countries may buy the rights. You can make money off merch if they sell any merch with it. There's definitely ways to make money. off this book with other like guided stuff, like guided virtual stuff. Consulting. Yes. And then speaking and appearances for sure. Well, and then I think the overall, what I've noticed at least, especially with business type deals, the rate is going up. Like the rate to do

business partnerships and stuff is going up because you're becoming more established in the business community. All right. One year today. Okay. So one year in the future, April 4th, 2000, 23. How will you define success of this book? And I want two answers. I want a monetary answer, and you're going to give me one, a monetary answer with this book in terms of book sales and dollars, and then a non-monetary answer in terms of how you define this book, the success of this book, one year from today. I truly, truly never thought I would make more than the advance off this book, ever. If I make a penny more than the advance, I'd be completely, completely shocked. But that's my goal. How many books would it take to sell? How many books would it take to sell to get over the advance? It's a fucking

great question. Shame on me for not knowing. I'm going to come back and do the research on that. I'm going to guess around... Give me a guesimation. Yeah. Give me a guesstimation. I'm going to guess because it's the profitability with the book. It's not the gross sales. I'm going to guess around like 15,000 to 20,000. 20,000, I think. You're going to sell over 20,000 copies. I would say, yeah. If I can make over the advance in a year, it's a win. If I can sell over 30,000 copies in a year from now, I feel like it's a win, especially in this how-to business category, which is oversaturated. And I feel like if I can potentially monetize, you know, some maybe six figures in speaking and added brand deals because of the book, I think that's

a win. And overall, it's a pride thing because I think there's going to be a lot. I hope there's a lot of impact. And for me, like, that's a huge win. If someone could read this book and message me, I'd be like, dude, you changed the way that I approached my life and here's what I'm doing now. and this help. That is the biggest win. I talk about this and I don't, I'm going to say it now because I don't know if we're going to get to like my overall theme takeaways at the end because I just, we have so many questions to ask, but you will get that. I promise you will get that because my biggest takeaway from this is if you are actually looking for help or advice or tips in any form of networking,

of negotiations, in raises, in how to get a restart, there are so many tips and action items and things you can do, and what I have to do about this book, my favorite thing is it'll truly separate the people who are pretenders from the people who want to actually change your life. And there's just so much in there. So you are going to change people's lives and you are going to get messages about that. So I know that that's like factual because you can tell in the book. I love that.

It's so nice. And what's good is that I've had, I will say this. I've had a really interesting demographic read this book. I've had ages 70, 60, 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s, females and male. and all the feedback, and I don't think they're just blowing smoke has been really interesting because they're all taking totally different things away from it. And I think they're applying it in different ways, which is what I want. And it does. It hits you differently. There might be some slower areas that just don't hit you, but the ones that do, that's when it's like, oh, my God,

Jason's yelling at me. Like his passion is coming through the page and he is absolutely yelling at me. And that's, at the end of the day, that's the effect that you want, the passion you have. All right, yeah, two more questions. And then we're going to get into chapter by chapter questions. Give the people at home a little taste of the book. I love it. The book is endorsed by some kind of a big deal personalities from all the industries. Eric Nardini CEO of Barcelona sports, ever heard

of them. Ryan Sirhan, CEO of Sirhan, star of Bravo's million-dollar listing. Damon John, who's Shark Tank star, Super Bowl champion, Future Hall of Fame of Rob Gronkowski, Netflix's selling sunset actress, Chrisel Strauss, CMA 2021 female vocalist of the year and country music star Carly

Pierce. Now let it calm my breath after all those people and all their achievements. How do you get these people to endorse your book? Start with that. Well, I was looking for, I really wanted to find people that, like, had a restart story. And I'm not going to go through each one of them, but all of them have had wild restart stories where they've hit rock bottom, detoured, move left, right, and gone in so many different ways, but found such success. So their stories aligned with the premise of the book. How did I get each of them? I asked them. Carly Pierce asked her directly. Again, But I'm doing it in Amanda that's like, Carly, this book is literally like your life.

I tell her about the book. I send her the manuscript. I'm explaining, I want you on the back cover because you represent what I'm trying to do. And Carly's never done a book. So this is the first one. Chris Shell, she totally gets it with her path and where she's gone and how far she's come. I just asked her directly. Rob G., I just asked him directly.

I mean, the guy lived and born and raised in Buffalo and Buffalo Bill's pass over this guy, the best tight end to ever play. He got injured and almost never play in the NFL. has had so many injures since, it still came back, fights and restarts every day. Damon John, his story. We all know it. Unbelievable. I, through him, went to his agent who have built a really good relationship with, through having them on podcast and stuff like that. Ted, Beauty, works with Damon, right-hand man. He got me Damon's endorsement. Ryan Surhan built relationship from doing work like this, called him, took my call. He's like,

dude, whatever you want. Even tell me what to write. I'll make it my words. Let's do it. Eric Nardini coolest story ever CMO of AOL That's a huge job Transitions out of corporate To be the CEO A freaking bar stool

What a wild transition Asked her I love how you said You weren't going to go person by person By person I went person by person I had to But oh well you asked me how

Because your question was How'd you get them Long story short All five of them Other than Damon direct And I think to I know the answer to this but just to put icing on the cake,

you didn't pay any of these people, did you? Not a penny. To endorse the book? Nope. Just a thank you. So the cool thing about that is I have the three questions and even in my whole restart roadmap since I've read the book now,

I have, it's a perfect example of networking, selling, and negotiating. Is your networking got you all these people. Your selling is that the book has value and them endorsing it has value for your book. And the negotiating is obviously getting them to do it for free because you're basically putting them in a position to feel good about their lives

and help others. So it's amazing. So all right, I got one more question and then we're getting in the chapters. Let's go. Curious Canadian question. When you're in an audio session, like those got to be just hearing yourself talk and looking at a screen and talking and no one around. Like that's got to be the weirdest thing ever. But when how do you do the edits for an audio recording session?

Do you go sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, chapter by chapter? Like when you mess up, do you have to start over again from how many words back? I love how the curious Canadian keeps me to very quick answers. I feel like rushed. I'm like, I got to get all my words out. So you literally sit in a studio. You do it for six hours at a session and you just read the book. But when you're reading the book, you have to do the pauses and enunciations. I'll give you a two second example. Ten episodes of a very popular TV show. As it turns out, endows an individual with something of a

brand. If you don't do it with those pauses in that enunciation, you have headphones on. And there's a guy that sits there the whole time and says, repeat that last sentence, repeat that last word. Sorry, you got to repeat this. Oh, you didn't pause long enough. Go back. And so you'll just repeat it and redo it. They do all the editing. But it's, it's hell. It took three sessions of six hours. A session. I picture that guy just like, I picture that guy like feet kicked up on a desk reading the newspaper, like such a pro's like knowing what it should sound like, no, do it again. No, do it again. He was a younger guy. And the other thing, too, I was like, what is this job? like, that's got to be torture, just sitting out there.

And then he's, he's an engineer. He's an audio engineer. So, like, right up his alley. He said to me, he goes, he, like, this recording studio apparently does a ton of, like, religious books. And he's like, dude, this was such a nice change of pace. I'm used to, like, having, like, a priest in there. And then he's coming out, like, questioning my religion and what I need to do differently.

Like, this was great. Yeah. That's awesome. He probably had a few takeaways, too. He's probably like, oh, okay. I'm going to get into the book here. We're going to get into the book, chapter by chapter here. Again, I read this book in 24 hours, which for me is a miracle.

I think this is like the fifth book I've ever read cover in my life, which is embarrassing. But I was in it. I was in it to win it. So I have one to two chapters that kind of came or one to two questions from each chapter that I felt were relevant for people who either bought the book and want more or haven't bought the book and can hear a little bit about what it's about. So let's get ready. to rock. Chapter 1, Sunday Scaries.

Here we go. So just hearing the details of your panic attack that you really talk about in this, I personally never knew that they were this serious. How hidden did you make this as a part of your life? And who did you confide into if anyone? And why didn't you tell your friends like me? That's a great question. I didn't, it was as hidden as it could be. No one knew about it. No one knew about it. I would go to CVS and I would get the Xanax and I would take it. And I would take take the paper from the Xanax and immediately throw it out in the trash can outside, rip it up. I would take the pills out of the Xanax container and put them in like a Tylenol container

and throw it out in the garbage outside the CVS. And it was as camouflaged as camouflage could be. And why didn't I tell anyone? It's because I was so worried about the perception of mental weakness. I was so worried about the perception of failure and people at work and around hearing that I literally was having trouble sitting in meetings because of what was happening inside. And so it was just fear. You mean like nobody, like not your parents, like no your girlfriend at the time, nobody.

Girlfriend didn't know, parents didn't know, literally no one knew, no one. My psychiatrist knew, and the pharmacist. Why do you think you resorted? I mean, this is obvious because you were having these feelings, but why do you think you resorted to Xanax and beta blockers? Because in my head, my little square head, my inner, like, body was talking to me. Like, dude, something is wrong.

Like, you're putting too much pressure on being something you're not and living up to what you're trying to do is customize the vision of success in front of each person in front of you, your client, boss, your friends, you're this. It's not working. You're carrying too much weight. and you're flushing anxiety left and right. And so for me, it was the only way I could continue.

I had student debt. I had my MBA going on. That was super expensive. I couldn't not perform at work. One for my ego and two for my bills. And so instead of like talking about this or addressing it, I literally was like, I need a crutch and I need it now because I can't not go to work.

I can't not meet my expectations. I can't not pay for this debt. It's got to go away. And this was the easiest fix. When I was reading it and that was one of the chapters I listened to on the audio version of the book, my chest was tightening up when you were talking about it. Like just listening to it because I've never taken the Xanax. I've never taken a beta blocker.

But I've had panic attacks, right? I've had anxiety. Everyone in this planet has had anxiety. Like even though it wasn't relatable in the sense. of that exact experience, I've had my own experiences and just hearing you talk about it, my chest tightened up.

It was just so relatable. You know, the 4 a.m. nurse hotline that you're taking in your car outside Park Avenue because you're embarrassed because you don't want your roommates to know. Like, that stuff,

when I hate to say it, Jason, it was entertaining from a book. From like, I'm reading a book. I'm chapter one. I'm glued. Like, I'm entertained. But I'm feeling things in my own body from a book.

So, yeah, I will say, though, when I first got to know you and we still, we started to become really close friends, like, I had no idea and to see the degree at which it was and to see where you are now, it's obviously you're in such a better place. So I'm just so happy for you that you were able to find this and fix it. But, you know, the Sunday Scaries chapter one, I mean, it is Sunday Scaries to the nth degree. So it's real. And what's crazy is, like, the first time, I didn't even tell my mom, I was like,

Ma, just read it. And then let's talk. And so she read it. And she's like, Jason, like, why would you not talk to me about this stuff? Like, why would you not tell me these things? I'm like, I just, I didn't have it, like, in me. I didn't have mental capacity, like, to hold any more of, like, expressing this emotion. And I think to the extreme of what I was doing is very unrelatable.

I think the idea. You think it is, you think it is still now. or you thought that then? I think even like, I think even right now, someone's reading this like, damn, that's a lot. But I think the one thing that's probably pretty common

is that does someone out there are you listening, are you doing something to like crutch where you are today even though you don't want to be there? You're doing something to camouflage it. Are you experiencing some kind of mental anxiety and not expressing your emotion?

Is your body trying to tell your brain something but you won't accept it? That, to me, is so relatable. And to me, that's what I experienced. for many, many years. Yeah, 100%. And then chapter two, it's called Break the Damn Blueprint and Embrace the Change.

I mean, really, the whole chapter is just about like breaking off from the norm, breaking off from, you know, what you were told at your dinner table and you were 12 years old of what your life should have been and, you know, all that stuff. I think it was, I think it was awesome. And you really dove into where we are as a society and especially a generation in your hard-hitting depression statistics. You know, a couple of them leading cause of disability,

15 to 35-year-old's depression. Top three health disasters in the workplace, $210 billion a year loss and earnings. Suicide is the second leading cause of death, 18 to 45. I just thought that that was pretty impactful. I got a question based off that. What do you think would have been the result if you told your former employer

about your mental health issues you were having at work? I mean, it's a hell of a question. And I think this whole chapter, breaking the blueprint, you'll have to definitely snag the book and get into it. But it just pretty much takes the whole theory, through research and examples and says like this theory that

your parents and education system tells us as successful isn't working for the masses. And so that's the point of that. And, you know, back to your question, it's a really good question. I'll be honest with you. I think if I called like HR,

they would have, like if I called HR and talked about it, they would have taken it seriously. They would have taken it seriously. But I will stand by the fact that if my coworkers and my bosses knew that I was having Xanax in my pocket and beta blockers because I was having such crazy anxiety at work and in the office and at meetings,

there's no way I would have been from, but there's no way I would have got the calls I got. There's no way I would have got the opportunities. There's no way they would have been like, this is the guy we need to go to Seattle, and we're giving him a $110,000 signing bonus, fully relocated, 165 base, opportunity to triple, quadruple, double your base,

based on your performance. would not have had the confidence in me. And so you look back on that and it's like, fuck, that's still the reality. It's like, would I, what I've gotten help? Yes. Would getting of help been worth the juice been worth the squeeze at the end of the day with all the opportunities I would have missed on? Probably not. That's probably why you didn't go. Yeah, I mean hindsight, I wish I would have done things differently. I sure would have. I wish I would have addressed this. I wish I would have talked to my friends. I wish I would have talked to HR. I wish I didn't just continue to camouflage until I ended up face floor on the, you know, in the executive men's bathroom.

That's what I wished. But it's the reality situation. I didn't. And what have we learned on this podcast? Guys like billionaires like Mark Lory and Arod. I look back at some things I did in my life and I cringe, but I've learned from that. And because of that, you know, I'm so dropped into who I am. I'm so comfortable even sitting here talking about this that, like, I'm so past that.

And I, you know, I don't have those issues anymore. you would never, ever have had your own book come out if you didn't do what you did at the time. For sure. The old saying, everything happens for a reason. Now, everything does happen for a reason. You cut your hair off because of hairgate in Seattle. Is that the first time that anyone in the corporate world or the banking world ever asked you to cut your hair for your job? That was the first time.

That was for sure. I mean, what was interesting is the same exact, like, suit and hairstyle I had where they offered me this big job. was the same thing they asked me to change. And I know that my boss, I know I talked about in the book, I know it wasn't my boss. I could see it in his eyes. He and the research I did,

someone from the top came down and told him he needs to change his appearance. Good luck delivering that message. How much did your friends, including me chirp you like, oh, Jay moved to the West Coast and now he cuts his hair off and he's all like, you know,

that's a little bit of the hairgate. Oh, you guys beat the shit out of me. And then I said, that was like one of the first time, dude, like my walls started coming down. I'm getting like made fun of and instead of lying about it instead of like covering it up

being like no I'm trying a new hairstyle I was like guys they literally made me cut my hair and you're like what and then everyone called it the Seattle Hairgate is like a joke and it actually felt like for the first I'm like wait this feels good

like they know the truth like that is what happened I can laugh about this now and we made a joke about it and it was what it was before I move on to the next one I want to know how much fear or anxiety do you have now, or did you have while you were making this book

talking about your old employers and your old co-workers and hearing about your experiences and just, you know, at the end of the day, there's some negative connotations about what you went through. It's a great question. The biggest thing is, David, one of the big concerns are, I don't really give a shit what any of them think. They can come at me, they could chirp me, they can make fun of me,

they could say, I wish I did things better, they could point fingers, I don't care. My leg's skin is so thick. I don't care. It's who I am. It's my story. Come at me if you want. What I will say, though, is there definitely is a concern of mine, for sure. Right now, all the businesses I operate are going really, really well. Financially, never been better off. You know, I can make more now in a month than I made there in a year. But the concern about when these worlds do dry up, when businesses do turn, and if I'm in a position where I need to go back,

to a big corporate job for the money again, which I hope is never the case and the motivation for me to work my ass off every day, there's no way an employer looks at this book and doesn't at least scratch their head or ask me to justify how the liability of me working for them is reduced, and that's a concern. Well, it's also a book opportunity.

You can call it rewind and then it's like going back to the corporate world and what I learned about being an influencer and might doesn't jive well with the corporate life. But there's so many things now in skills and the businesses I do that there's no, like I will never be a banker again as long as I live, right? I'll never work in that space ever again. I never will need to. But like those are fears that come to fruition. There could be, you know, listen, I've, through the podcast and things I've done, I've had ceasing to sis on my front door.

Could there be another one? I think I avoided some of the realty that might have made this and maybe a bestseller that I won't. I hope I don't get one, but let's just say I could. All right. Chapter 3 is all both. David's like, I'm going to save his ass. Let's move to the next question. Chapter 3, what do we got here?

You'll thank me later. I will say chapter 3 is my favorite chapter of the book. Without giving too much away, it's about vulnerability. The reason that Jason and I, for those listening, are closest to friends is because we challenge each other the most to be vulnerable about our lives. And that is truly how we became so close. is refreshing to be able to have someone who really we approach life the same way to be able to be vulnerable with about everything careers and personal and goals and relationships so to hear

him talk about those things in his book kind of hit home for me so I have some questions about this though that I definitely want to ask you in a vulnerable type way and I you talk a little bit about it in the book but I want to do it on the pod I just want you to be honest and really answer how much of the experience of the bachelor that changed your life and I'm not talking, I don't want to talk fame and I don't want to talk money or influencing or deals or career. I want to talk about the silence you experienced on the show and the internal reflection it forced you to have without distractions. Could you have restarted your life without those quiet times and lack of outside influences? I think the only way to answer your

question is directly as I can, I could have connected with myself the way I did of three months, no TV, no phone, no internet, no music, no friends, no nothing. It would have been through some pretty intense therapy. And as crazy as that is, people don't think about The Bachelor experience being therapeutic in a good way. For me, it was therapeutic in both, but mostly a really good way of me trying to break those walls down and understand like, not everything is okay, dude. And I'll never forget when that one producer after week two was like, what is wrong with you? Like, she shut the cameras off, middle of the interview. And I'll never forget this. And she was like, like, what is, what? I can't, I'm done with this interview.

I was like, did I say something wrong? She's like, no, you say everything right. That's your problem. There's never one bad ex-girl. There's no issues in your life. Everything's perfect. I'm like a politician. I can't connect.

There's no point of me interviewing it. Like, what happened? And she was like, I feel like you're broken and you won't even talk about it. And I just, like, lost it. I'm like, I am. The cameras weren't even odd. And then I, like, got into it with her.

I started telling her all. this stuff and I was like wow fuck they got me but it it was like a legit thing like it was one of the first times I'm like man look where you are you're in a fucking closet at the bachelor mansion getting chirped by a fucking producer because you're so

full of shit like what has happened what happened man yeah and so yes to answer your question there's not much I could substitute that I think other than pretty intense therapy or like a really healthy group session with friends to be like let's check in on each other

like okay enough of the bullshit like how are you really like tell me you can go ahead when you came off the show the first I'm gonna say 10 times we hung out after the show

all you wanted to talk about was like life like all you wanted to talk about I don't even remember that yeah you wanted to you came off and you just wanted to talk about like man have you ever thought about this like have you ever like hey like

it was almost like we were high it was almost like it was like it was like whoa so it was It was awesome. One thing that I have to ask you because... Wait, I got to say this, though. There are some things we just talked about that get much deeper in this book. Like, I get next level about how I got broken down and how I got back up and how I saw other people in that match to get broken down. I mean, it gets deep. So if you

haven't purchased a copy of the book, one, purchase it for that. And two, please, like, know that you're supporting this podcast. You're supporting David and I with what we're doing. You're supporting the restart business. You are supporting a small business when you get this book. I tell you everything I possibly can for hopefully the benefit of you and your small purchase of the $22, $23, $24, $25 book. I think it gets discounted once it comes out really means the world. But David, keep her going. No, it is. And people at home, I'm trying to do my best job possible in teasing some stuff. But there is just so much, so many tangible takeaways. One of the things that is brought up in this vulnerability section

and dating when you started dating KB is you had to learn how to be a little more vulnerable because she's going to put you in situations to be more vulnerable because that's just like her brand. Yeah. So you ended up losing your job of the bank because of something that was said on KB's podcast. I want to know what that was really like

when that confession came out with your families, with their friends, with your employer. Did you tell people, did you try and cover it up? Did you try and make excuses? You know, how did you really feel obviously you had to support your girlfriend at the time but how did you really feel about what was happening wow that's a tough question uh one i can't give that short of an answer to but i will try first off what was it what was it said what was actually said you are you comfortable sharing it yeah so oh yeah so we're in a new york city uh you cannot find the podcast anymore kately

got rid of the podcast because she felt so bad and she lost a ton of money getting rid of that podcast because downloads are really high. But she, and her, the network's like, you can't, you can't delete this. Like, this is really good. She's like, I don't care. Delete it. And they delete it. So you can't hear it anywhere. But we're doing a live podcast in New York City. And she gives a confession, as everyone knows on Caitlin's podcast. She gives confessions. And she tells like a funny story. Everyone's laughing so hard. And she gives confession so that people that, you know, you look up to, you could see, like, they have embarrassing moments. We're all people. And so she tells a funny story about the first time we hook up

were dry humping and she orgasms and she's like and that's how I knew it was my guy I had an orgasm dry humping and people are laughing they didn't really think

anything of it and ironically enough David I don't think I've told anybody this I was so worried about work stuff I had their team send me stuff

I've never told this I had their team send me stuff to edit the whole thing I edited that whole podcast I thought that was fun I didn't even honestly think it was that bad

well of course than all the media picks it up, great headlines, right? And that's when the conversation happened. And I had this wild mixed emotion. I was, like, angry at Caitlin. And then I was angry at my employer. And then I was, I need to, I feel lonely like I need to defend Caitlin. This isn't her fault because I think she thought this was going to, like, break us up.

Like, I remember her in tears, thinking, like, we're not going to make it. Your family's going to hate me. And I covered up for a lot of people. I covered up for my employer. I covered up for Caitlin. And once I got to a position where I am now where that decision isn't as risky as it is today because I know the success I've had, I'm more comfortable talking about it. But everyone at my going, we had a going away party, David.

at work for me and the whole entire thing was jason is he's going to start his own thing we're so excited for and there's a group of us who knew the truth and my parents i my parents didn't know about this until they read the book and it was a scary crazy anxious time and so it was the ultimatum go restart your life outside the bank or restart it here, but all that stuff is gone. Were you pissed that you didn't leave the bank earlier? And why didn't you? It's a good question.

No, I didn't because I had contingencies that were keeping me there. Right? With different bonuses and things like that, if you leave it a certain time, you would owe some of that back. So, you know, that's a lot of the corporate model. I mean, this is fucking smart. And this is not every corporation.

I love corporate America's fucking great. But there are some corporations, it's a fit for you, and there's some, it's not. And, you know, if you constantly feel like the carrot's being dangled in front of you and maybe you're giving more than you're receiving, it's time to just rethink that. 100% agree with all that, too. Got to be the craziest time of your life, no? That whole, like, I'm just like putting myself in your shoes. That had to be the craziest time. Dude, I'll never forget exactly where Caitlin and I are and I get the call from my boss. And he's like, hey, do you Google yourself today?

I was like... Yeah, I do it every day, actually. No, I haven't. Well, you know, the bank's expecting you to come in and resign. Excuse me? What the fuck's going on? You know? And then, you know, this is a funny story.

I have not told many people, but I immediately... The first guy, phone friend, who am I calling? Brother, owns a business, knows employment lawyers. I don't know what the fuck's going on. What do I do here? How does this happen? Call my brother's like, listen, here's this guy. He's in employment law.

He's in New York City. he's like top he works in finance law like you do this is your guy thank you steve like when in doubt go to steve darting so i call the guy and i tell him a story and guy starts laughing he's like well shit i've dealt with a lot of like wall street stuff and hedge fund stuff and banker stuff but i've never dealt with someone having to deal with their employment status because their significant other who is their partner had a consensual fully closed experience that was talked about on her business. This is a new one for me.

It was unbelievable. And so it was, dude, I was panicking. I'm like, what do I tell me? You know, what am I going to do this? What am I going to do this? What am I going to do? Like, how do I protect Caitlin? How do I protect myself?

And oh, it's all about the orgasm. And then the problem is I had, there are people back in Buffalo that were fucking forwarding it to my grandfather. So now my grandfather is like, what kind of family? What happened to our family? What the hell's going on? Oh, God. Now my grandfather is upset with my.

my mother and my mother won't talk to me and like what is happening, but they still didn't know the repercussion. They didn't know the job situation. They just knew the headlines. So this whole world of balancing, you know, everyone has to think about this too, by the way, as you have to build your brand in social media. I don't care if you have one follower. You have to build your brand.

Whatever it is, and make it to you. But the world of sharing everything and the professional lane, those are merging. I support the merge because I think if you are being the best version of the true you, not the I'm going to slip down Xanax to be what you want me to be, you're going to perform your best at work. And you're seeing companies that are now allowing that, that are now allowing these things like be you. Say how you want to talk. Talk where you what you want to wear. Because if you're doing that, you'll be the best you. And if you're the best you, hopefully you'll be the best version of that at work to bring the most value to the company.

I agree. Just a crazy time. And then you have to resign from the bank and go into the world of influencing, which is exactly what got you in this pickle with your partner who's an influencer. So a crazy time in your life there. You just mentioned the word balance. And the next chapter talks a little bit about lifestyle, where you should live, how it fits your life. I want to talk about balancing in terms of work life balance. It's a kind of a buzzword. I'm curious for Jason Tarduk, what is your work life balance? What's your ideal work life balance? Yeah, I also want to say this. I had a two-year plan before I left to Seattle to two years. I knew I'd be financially independent based on my budgeting to get out and do my own thing. And so the two-year mark was

almost up. That's one thing in the book that you do a really good job that I will tease is like your two-year planning your mindset behind why you went to Seattle makes perfect, perfect sense. Yes. So anyone listening, if you're not getting numbers on this podcast, it's because there are every single number in this book. Numbers I negotiate. Number. I made numbers, bachelor numbers. You name the number. It's in this book. Go grab a copy.

Back to your question, work-life balance. In this book, I talk a lot about the unlimited PTO and the whole work-life balance bullshit that's the mantra by companies for the most part, not all, but for the most part,

and where there's so many flaws in that. You want to read more about that, get the book. But I think work-life balance can only be customized between you, your family, your friends, and your work. And that's it.

And it has to be a customized solution. and you know I think that Caitlin and I have done a decent job of that like even in times where she's on tour we'll find the two-day window we'll both take off we'll meet in the city or she'll come here we'll like you know given the work schedule but it's got to be customized that's work-life balance and I think work-life balance is what to find success and what motivates you and how back to the Rob Deere deck model how between all three of those worlds not just silos the career world the money world and the personal world. How is the happiness scale in all three of those? I have to ask you, because I found this to actually be one of the most fascinating parts is your memo to the bank about the bachelor opportunity. And people, if you get this book for one reason, it's to read this insane memo. To get a little taste of Jason Tardick's brain and how detailed he will go to prove a point and how much research he does, but it's for a good purpose. You have to just go and listen to this memo or read this memo that he types out word for word because it is so fascinating. I got to ask you,

what was on your mind while you were writing this? And when I was listening to you read it out loud, it sounded bold as hell. Did you feel that way when you submitted it that was bold? Or you were like, oh, this makes perfect sense. For anyone that's trying to get more context, people that go on the show have to take off of work, the exact memo I wrote to my boss, word for word, is in the book. David, what did you think was bold about it? I just think maybe the bold was like, is bold in a good way? Like, I'm giving you so much information.

If you say no to this, you're a bad human being. You're crooked. Like, you can't say no. I'm proving every reason of why I deserve this. I'm showing you that I'm planning. I'm showing you that I'm willing to even take paid time off if it gets to this point. And by the way, if it gets to that point,

I have a calculated 6% chance of getting to this point, where I'll need my paid time off or my unpaid time off. It was just so dialed that that's why I think it was like the bold thing about it. I don't know. I think if anyone wants to go check out the book, the memo, the one thing I'll say is my whole life, especially at this company, spent so hard working to sell what they wanted me to sell, how they wanted me to sell it. And this was the first time that I took the same, so hard that I kind of just lost who I was.

It was the first time the roles reversed, and I was using the same tactics that they taught me to sell myself. And I pretty much gave them almost no-out in this memo. But the memo does, and the full story will be told in the book, but the memo ends up making it all the way to the president of the entire bank. Shit they don't talk about behind the scenes when people are walking out of the limo. It should also be in the Guinness Book of World Records for Best Memo ever said. ever. The thing was awesome. All right, we were kind of running

at a time. So I got to fly through here and ask some questions. Rapid fire for a couple of these. Okay. You talk about the brand, okay, how important your brand is. You got to actually know

what differentiates you, what your superpowers are. Really quickly, Jason Tarduk, what are my, if you were to describe my brand, David Ardwin's brand, what differentiates me? What are my superpowers?

You got to know yourself. You've got to be able to know what differentiates you in a room. When I read David Ardardwin's, and what differentiates him than anybody else is your wit, you're funny, your sense of humor, your vulnerability, your ability to express your emotions. When you feel emotion, you can express it and you to create comfort and also magnetic energy with the people around you. The best thing is that you're never afraid to admit when you're wrong and rarely do you ever let ego get in front

of your growth and you let that actually excel your growth to learn from others to be better in the areas you are, but the areas you know you're the best in, there's just no touching you. Let's... Fuck. That's awesome. People, I didn't do that to get like an ego stroke. That's unscripted. He just did that off the top.

The reason actually what I did it is because there's going to be people who read this book who says, I don't know what my brand is. And the reason I did that exercises is because ask your friend. Your friend will be able to tell you what your brand is. If they tell you what your brand is, that's what you're putting out. That's what you're radiating. All of a sudden, you understand your brand, you can move forward with that. So thank you for taking part of my exercise. And that it's funny, that exercise is in the book. It's an exercise I did. I'll let you guys read it. But the whole

exercise of exactly how to do that to see if you're connected with the people that know you best is in the book. All right. How long should a resume be? Go, quick answer. Never more than two pages. I'd like one page max. Okay. You talk about owning your own URL as a genius idea. How do people do it. Go to goaddy.com. Anywhere you can buy the URL, go buy the URL, look at WordPress, and build a URL. If someone can't find your website, it's already disadvantaged. I don't care what you, I don't care if you're teaching, nursing, anything. Have your resume on your URL. Start today. It can be in the whole step by step of how to do this at a very affordable price is in the book. You talk about Colton in one of the last chapters. And I personally can never pass up

an opportunity to simply dissect every move that he makes. He's a fascinating and polarizing individual. And as you mentioned in the book, he's basically a master negotiator and marketer. There's a line in there. Can I quote a line from the book? Go for it. Yeah. He says, when you talk about the negotiation process between you, Blake and Colton for

who to be the bachelor, it sounds like you and Blake had very similar, you know, interviews, nice guys, right answers, in it for the right reasons, want to find a wife, you know, the previous experience, blah, blah, blah. Colton goes in there and says, yeah, Jason and Blake, they're good guys. But do you want good guys or do you want a guy who will give you good TV ratings? Just the type of polarizing figure that he is. Do you think you could have delivered better TV ratings than Colton's season if you were The Bachelor? No.

Nope. Why? Because I'm not, I have a certain, I'm just not in the business of getting manipulated to create drama. And the risk of that, knowing my risk tolerance for shit like that is just too low. There's no way. I think that's, I mean, listen, there's many reasons why they didn't pick me. One of the big reasons, because I'm boring. I'm vanilla.

They know I wouldn't have been manipulated. I wouldn't have done crazy shit. He was exactly right, and he nailed it. Do you still talk to him? No. Don't talk to him. Ironically enough, just found out he recently unfollowed to Caitlin and I. Not sure why.

We returned the favor. That's big in the internet streets. Yeah, I'm not sure why he unfollowed us, but he did. Interesting thing with Colton is like timeline-wise. I mean, he's very, very calculated man. But he had asked me several times to interview to be on one of the Netflix shows for him. And this was before his, the coming out, Colton. He was going to have a show with Cassie.

Then he was going to have a show by himself with his friends. He was working every angle to get a Netflix show. And I commend him for, you know, he knows what he wants and he goes for. I commend him for that. It's interesting. I was like, dude, whatever you need, man. However it can help. And you need Caitlin, I'll get Caitlin to interview, like whatever we could do to help you.

And I do remember him making a comment about, like, if the show, I don't know, like, I think if, like, for him and Cassie, it didn't work out, like, they needed him and Cassie. It couldn't just be his show. And so I think he put a lot of equity in that. And I don't know much. And I don't, I didn't really, I just knew that I was, like, doing him a fair. Sure, man, behind the scenes, do what you got to do. I'm here to enter.

And I interviewed. There's footage. I interviewed 100 times. Not 100. I interviewed for two or three things for Colton with Netflix. And then he came to Nashville in the summer, hung out with Caitlin and I, was a little distant. I think that's when his whole thing was happening, but he was still him. He was a little aloof with where he said he would be and when and why.

And then all this shit happened. And I remember FaceTime Cassie a couple times, which it was interesting, and, like, would put it up with Caitlin and I, like, almost like he was showing him was with us. I don't know. I was dancing with the stars, and I'm good friends with his roommate at the time. So we were working out. And I'm sending him videos like, dude, where are you? Why aren't you here? I didn't know the whole story of everything happening. And he said something like, I'll be, yeah, yeah, I'm going to be there soon. And then not another word. Just like, hey, you're in town? You're going to work out? Nothing. Now where. I just didn't hear anything. Do you have any issues with them now?

There's just so many open questions. I just don't, you know, I don't know any, I don't know anything. is happening. I didn't hear from him. We were, like, so close. And then everything happened with what he had done to Cassie. And I haven't talked to him. So then, of course, he obviously came out, has a show, and his living his happy life. And I guess I haven't seen the show. I've heard through the show he takes a lot of ownership with what happens to Cassie. I commend him for doing that. We all fuck up aggressively for Cassie. I feel so sad. and sorry for what she went through, but I'm all so happy that Colton,

it sounds like, has acknowledged that, moved on and found happiness. And that's where the cookie crumbles with the whole Colton situation. And I guess he, I thought he followed us, but he must have recently unfollowed us. Maybe it was when we were out with Cassie

and Cassie was on, you know, Caitlin's podcast. I don't know. We're still talking about him. So yeah, he probably would have delivered better ratings than you on the TV show.

He is definitely a better celebrity or familiar face or reality TV star, whatever you want to call it, in all areas than me. That's for sure. Yeah, he's always got something on the go. Let's just say that one. All right.

The last chapter and the last thing that we're going to talk about, last chapter of the book, restart, rewire, reset right now. At the end of the day, Jay, and I're winding down this podcast, I just want to say, and I have written down here,

reading this chapter at the end of the day just made me smile. I'm really, really proud of you. I think that it's just an incredible accomplishment of what you're doing. To know the Jay that I met out of Geneseo and always wearing a suit, slick back hair, walls the size of the Great Wall of China, to see your vulnerable side to put out, I mean, things about, air out, things

about themselves that no one else wants to know. Super, super proud. And the last question that I have, you talk about what your major, major, major cause or your restart was. Did you let that person know that you'd be bringing that up or not? No. I mean, at first, First of all, I can't pass over the fact you said I always wore a suit. I think it's so funny because like when people still realize it's like, that was my identity. I was the suit guy. Like, did I own anything other than a suit? Did you ever see me in anything other than a suit?

Ever. Never. Never. Not once in my life. Ever. I think it's so funny. Yeah. I literally lived my work identity 24-7. But no, no, no.

I did not. So did not. Which is crazy because people, you got to go read the book. and in the last chapter, you'll see what kind of broke the camel's back, I guess you could say. No conversations have been had, and none will. Do you think that person will read this part? We'll see. I don't really care, to be honest.

Love it. Love it. I love it. Well, hey, I got one main takeaway from the book that I think everyone needs to do to improve their life and start the restart. It's a common theme. You're going to hear Jason talk about it. a lot in the book. But we've talked a lot about it. Geez, David spit it out. He gets over an hour. He can't talk anymore. Is the power of writing things down. I think there's so many steps that you

talk about that require us to write things down. I've talked a lot about the power of writing things down because it's the only form in self-talk where you can't lie to yourself. To make ideas in your brain, they sound good. And then you just distract your brain with something else. But to put pen to paper and read it out loud and make it permanent by putting it out in the world as a permanent source. If you lie to yourself while you're writing something down, then that's a bigger issue than anything. And I think really getting the truth of what you want to accomplish and holding yourself accountable is writing it down. Just a huge theme I took away from it. I can't imagine writing a five, what would you say? 50,000 word book. There's a lot of writing things down for me.

but like I said, people go out there, buy the book. It'll help you in any facet of life that you're looking for. Stop by the book tour. Come say how to me. Come say how to Jay on all the stops. We've got some great guests planned. Thank you, Jay, for always letting me be a part of this, be a part of this episode. Complete my hat trick in hosting.

Hope that you'll have me again. Great. Great episode, David. Thank you so much for hosting. That was awesome. Guys, if you enjoy this podcast, give us five stars. If you do order the book, if you can give us a five-star review on Amazon, on that is very, very helpful.

A quick little teaser, some things we didn't talk about that are in the book, right? Anything about, you know, the hacking, the hiring process, the art of getting noticed, taking the work out of networking, getting you paid. I talk about 20% raise, a 50% raise exactly to the step-by-step process, how I did it, how you could do it. The ultimatum I was put in, the value of your time, the average expectancy that we are here on earth and the average expectancy you have to work and make an impact. I talk about the edge network where people are getting paid to get their kids into school.

I mean, there is a ton in this book. I hope this interview gave you a good sample of what we did with it. And most importantly, I hope you get something away from it because I tried to be as open and real and as vulnerable as the writer so that you as the reader could do the same and help connect some more dots to write the story you always wanted. So, David, thank you so much for hosting. This has been an awesome episode. I don't think I ever get through an episode with David hosting and me and the hot seat where I don't have a little back sweat going. And no, I'm not popping in these annex or beta blockers. I am living in my back sweat. David, thank you so much for having us.

Having me. We will be back next week for another episode of Trading Secrets, one you hopefully can't afford to miss. money and money living that dream making that money money money pay on me making that money living that dream