Trading Secrets - 55: Truth behind America’s Next Top Model and succeeding in the modeling and acting world with Cycle 19 winner Laura James

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

Check out The Restart Roadmap: Rewire and Reset Your Career now!   In this week’s episode, Jason is joined by America’s Next Top Model Cycle 19 winner Laura James, as they unpack the so-called “glamorous” world of modeling and acting. Laura gives the inside scoop on what it was really like auditioning for and competing in ANTM, how she spent her winnings of $100,000, and whether it’s true that former contestants intentionally omit the experience on their resume to avoid any association with the show. Is it common for a model to make $1 million in any given year? Who would earn more in a campaign - a Gucci model or a Target model? Are TV shows or movies more generous with pay? Laura answers all of this plus the ultimate secret to nailing auditions and booking modeling gigs in another episode you can’t afford to miss.   Sponsors: Omahasteaks.com keyword SECRETS for 8 free Omaha Steaks burgers Shopify.com/secrets for a free 14-day trial Altoira.com/secrets to open an account Grammarly.com/SECRETS for 20% off   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we're exploring the glamorous world of modeling and acting with the one and only Laura James. Laura is best known for winning cycle 19 of America's next top model, where she took home the first place title along with a bunch of other prizes, and yes, I will ask her the dollar amounts. But what's interesting is that before she launched her whirlwind modeling career, she graduated from Paul Smith's college with a degree in hotel resort tourism management. In 2014, her acting career took off, and she starred in episodes like, Hello Ladies, the Young and the Restless, and American Woman. her most prominent role was in the critically acclaimed show called SWAT ever heard of it she's had such

incredible careers in both modeling and acting we're going to drill down deep into both i'm even curious if someone just off the streets wanted to get the acting how do they do it i can't wait to do it laura thank you so much for coming on this episode of trading secrets thank you for having me that's quite the intro well i'm excited to be here yeah and this is so exciting because we have not had anyone within this space. And for you, you did just that, right? In 2012, you come in first place, America's next top model. What a huge opportunity. And I was reading, I can't, I mean, I'll tell you what, Bachelors got to step their game up because we don't get, you know, we get love, which is great. We don't get shit when we win. You got these contracts and this

and that. I mean, unbelievable. But I want to get into how did this even come about? How did you end up finding this show that of course changed a little bit of the trajectory of what you're doing today. Yeah. No, it's actually crazy. And I know you mentioned my college, which is where I went to school. And I went to college for hotel resort and tourism management because I was completely in love with the hospitality industry. I still am. That was something I knew I wanted to do. But I also wanted to act. Acting was always my number one passion just growing up, being from a very small town and from a one traffic light town. And so I was in college and I was in senior year. and I'm like procrastinating on doing my homework.

I'm watching TV and a commercial for top model comes on. And it's like, do you think you have what it takes to be America's next top model? And I'm just sitting there and I'm like, I don't know. I was like, sent him an email. There's a literal email up on the screen. I was like, I'll send him an email and see what happens. Next thing I know, I'm being invited to a private audition in New York with Tyra and all this stuff. In my head, I'm thinking, oh, I'm going to be sitting there with Tyra with like 12 people.

We're going to chill. we're going to chat. I show up. There's like 600 girls. I was there all day. And that was just one day out of all the auditions. It was insane. Yeah.

So long story short, I get a call. Yeah, there was about 600 girls. There was a lot. There was a lot of girls. And I got a call that I was in the top 30. And I flew out to L.A. And, you know, I'm standing around. And I'm seeing all the competition.

And I just, to me, I was like, you know what? Like, this was fun. this like first step was fun. I'm probably going to go home. You know, I'll figure out how to be an actor. Like, I'll just, you know, try to do my hotels on the side. And then I got in the house and I was one of 13 and I just kind of was like, what's happening? And it was kind of like that each week, you know, until I got to the end and then I won. That is wild. One thing I got to ask you about is through the process, I read an article, New York Post, came out, former contestants said they were pretty much saying in general they were paid nothing to be on the show.

When they were drilled down further, they said they got about $38 in cash per day for like a meal stipend. But then I think in this post article, there was like even some complaints about like, yeah, we got a meal stipend, but there weren't even like microwaves or anything. We have had so people from an array of reality television, unscripted shows, challenge shows, et cetera. And it does seem like compensation is a shit show. It's all over the place. Like there's no common denominator in these compensations for you, where you guys, you guys, is it all compensated when your season was airing or when your season was filming? I wasn't paid to be on the show because in a way, you're not technically considered talent,

like you're considered like a contestant. So I think that there are, you know, there are ways around being actually paid to be on the show. Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. And then, I mean, I'm looking at the list here of all the stuff that you got for the grand prize. And it looks like, and tell me if I'm missing anything, but modeling contracts with New York model management and LA models, the opportunity to have your, you be the face of the fragrance called Dream Come True, a spread in nylon magazine, campaigns with Nine West, a smashbox cosmetics, and a $100,000 prize. And last but not least, you also won $30,000 from your challenges. That's a whole hell of a lot

of prize money and takeaway. Of those, of course, we understand what the value of $30,000 is and the $100,000, but would you say that any one of those contracts or deals had a greater value than that $100,000 cash prize? Well, I mean, honestly, like the whole experience itself completely just changed the course of my life because I was in college, I was doing that. I wanted to work in hotels and restaurants, but figure out how to be an actor, like I said. Next thing I know, I have, yeah, I have, I've been set up with these modeling agents and I've got an money to really kind of support myself to be able to make the move to Los Angeles, which is what I wanted to do. So, yeah, while, you know, the money was nice, but also I think if the show hadn't

happened, I don't know how I would have figured out, like, a way to get to where I am now. Because to enter the entertainment industry, if you've not been in it before, is really, really difficult. And I think it really just helped push me right into it, you know? Yeah. So you're saying if you were like, and I don't know, anything about the modeling industry, but if you were trying to knock on modeling agency doors, like showing your portfolio and all your work, the likelihood of success, are you saying it's like extremely, extremely low? I mean, it would have been for me. I know that. I know that there are some people who have gotten really lucky with stuff like that, but it would have been for me.

I was, you know, I was technically on that show, which I look back on it now and I'm like, it's crazy that I was considered like the curvy girl on that show because I was like, like, you know, the modeling world is insane. But I had curves at that time. And I think, you know, yeah, it's wild. That's a whole other thing if you ever want to get into that. You know, I think for some people, like, yeah, knocking on doors and doing all this stuff is quite difficult. And a lot of times these modeling agents aren't looking for like, you know, new faces right away. Okay, gotcha. Fascinates a whole different world. I want to get into that a little bit more down the road. But I also want to learn a little bit more about these campaigns. So when they say like you get

a campaign with Nine West in Smashbox? How do the, like, how are those campaigns structured? Are you paid poor, like, right? So an influencing deal, we've talked a lot about it on this show. We've had the CEO of the largest influencing agency on. And so it's very straightforward. Like, this is how you're compensated. These are the analytics. This is how you make money. When you do a deal like with Nine West or Smashbox, how does the model actually make money and how do you negotiate those deals? Well, it's all based through your agency. So like you're, you're, you're not really in charge of so much. I mean, this was really, to be honest, like this was such a long time ago that I don't really remember exactly how this was sort of negotiated. I think for

winners, it was negotiated into your contract. So it's already in your contract as the winner of America's Next Top Model. Like, you are guaranteed to do these campaigns. So like when I, I would fly out to L.A. and it wasn't like, oh, I got an additional chunk of change on top of winning the show. It was already sort of packaged into winning. But as far as like in the actual industry outside of the show, whenever you're doing any type of campaigns, usually there, at least for me, there wasn't a lot of like wiggle room. It was pretty much like the client says what the budget is,

says what you're going to be compensated. And then your agents will get in and kind of like really package that deal for you and make sure that you're getting everything that you are worth out of that campaign. And sometimes, you know, there's negotiating rooms for like housing or for per diem or get a rental car like there are things that you can sort of play with but as far as the modeling world goes i never really got too much wiggle room as far as like negotiating with the with the fee acting world is a lot different that's a little different okay i'll touch on the acting world for sure i'm curious about that but with these like so with these contracts and you do go and you get you do the shoots or however

like that the the whole setup works are you doing it like day by day is it a full week of work like what is it actually take when you do one of these collaborations, like how much actual time is going into it? Completely depends on the job. I mean, I've had some jobs where you're there for a couple days and you're going to different locations and they have you, they're housing you and everything's taken care of. And then I've done some jobs where it's a day job and you go and you work for two hours, three hours. They take a really up close photo of your eye and then you leave. So it really honestly does just depend on the client, depends on the job, it depends on, you know, your day rate, things like that as well. What a world. All right. Now, I got to ask, before we move on,

the 100K, I know it was 10 years ago, but 100K, you get the money. What'd you do with it? You want to know what's crazy? I didn't really know what to do with it. And the thing is, it's funny because, you know, prior to our conversation on this podcast, I was thinking, I'm like, man, really, like, what could I tell my younger self with that money, like, what I would have done? And I really, you know, once I got the money, Los Angeles was such a crazy universe to me that I just didn't know. How was I supposed to, like, get to L.A.? And I ended up really using that money to house myself. I got like a furnished apartment that was like a month-to-month place, which those are not cheap.

Now, looking back, I would be like, save your money and don't spend money. on a furnished apartment with a dormant and a gate and all that stuff, like find some cheap, shitty place, like get a friend's car or something like that. But I moved out here to LA and I literally didn't know anybody. I didn't know what areas I should look at. I just kind of like found a place that I was like, okay, this is furnished. I don't have to like move. I didn't have furniture. I was right out of college. I had nothing. So I kind of just found a place that was, something I could actually afford, and that was the first time in my life that I saw money like that in my bank account. And I was like, well, I guess I should just use it to live. And I did.

But then once I got to L.A., I started really living in this sort of superficial world of Los Angeles as a 22-year-old, I think I was, 23, with a decent amount of cash. And it's something that I think, you know, podcasts like this didn't exist when I was 22, 23, which I wish they were. did, you know, so I kind of just had to really learn as I went. Yeah. I mean, I think it's great that financial literacy is like starting to come to the forefront. But yeah, you think about it. 22, you win this big show. You're riding the high. You got 100K. You're sitting in L.A. Like, you're living. You're spending. You're doing your thing. One thing I want to ask you about L.A. And the whole Hollywood experience is on Cycles 3 runner up, Yaya. She was saying that in a couple

interviews years back that there was this stigma in L.A. in Hollywood around the show and almost like you didn't kind of you didn't really talk about it. And she even said the words like it wasn't on your resume as you were pursuing next like steps. This kind of surprised me a little bit when I read this and when I heard about those interviews. What's your take on whatever this stigma is that she's referring to regarding the show and like how you talk about it as far as like a a career experience in the whole Hollywood L.A. scene. 100% agree with her. You know, it's funny.

Oh, she's right about that. She is right. And it's one of those things where I don't know which, I never really cared to find out, but I don't know if it's on the agency side slash industry side of things or if it's on like our side of things. But I remember when I first came out and I was really, you know, I was really excited.

And a lot of the girls that do go on this show, they don't have any actual real-world modeling experience and industry-related experience. So we don't really know how it works. And so we come out there and I think, I don't know if it's from the agency side of things where they look at a show like that and they're like, oh, like, here we go.

We've got these unexperienced models who have gone through a competition now and think that they can like, you know, go up for $100,000 jobs and become like the next best thing, you know? So I don't know if it's on their end or what, but I started to notice, I was like, you know, okay. It helped open doors for me as far as contacts go, but I wouldn't say that there were clients knocking down doors being like,

we saw Laura on the show, we really want to hire her. Can you connect us with her? But like it wasn't because I had won the show. It was just because I was using the opportunities that I had just sort of like networking out there to kind of, you know what I mean? Does that make sense? No, it does make sense. I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense.

And agencies are probably saying exactly what you said. Like this is, they're coming from a show. What's the true? experience and they're probably riding the high of the show thinking they're the it when I have you know X amount of women and men in line that I've done it a hundred times over who I could go to so that makes sense to me you go out there too with this sort of attitude like because I did I went out there and I was like okay by like 23 I'm going to make a million dollars that's my goal like and you sort of get into your mindset of like this is you know you get a little bit of a chip on your

shoulder, you know, and you don't realize that until that chip is gone. And you're trying to figure out, like, what to do next, which, yeah. How realistic is it for someone in L.A. who's like with a big agency that is a model to make a million dollars in an annual year of work for modeling? Like, is that a crazy outlier? Or is that very, very feasible? I thought it was going to be feasible for me, but it was because I really didn't know my brand at the time. I think I was pursuing a lot of high fashion modeling, which is not what I would, which is what I should have been doing. And I think if you are, I think that there are certain people, yeah, that probably could. It was not for me. Because I also realized how much I actually just did not enjoy the modeling

world. I like the act of modeling and creating really cool content and stuff with great people. But I realized that I just, I didn't like being a professional in that space. Interesting. And so when you say, and I haven't even blanking on it, because I'm trying to be the voice of the viewer here, like the high line, like so when you're saying the high, would you say the high line modeling, right? Is that what the word you used? Oh, sorry, like editorial, like sort of higher fashion modeling, yeah. So is that, like, the way my brain goes is that's like Gucci and like the big brands. Is that correct? Exactly. Okay. And so does that pay better? Are those bottles that are doing those type of brands being paid better? than someone that's doing like an American Eagle target or like the lower echelon? You know, again, it just depends.

It depends on, I think, the model. It depends on their agent. And it depends on, you know, I think their experience because a lot of models, like, you know, you get like a day rate when you start. And your day rate is, let's say, like, 500 bucks a day to do whatever. That day rate can go up exponentially

depending on how much you do. A lot of times girls who get those Gucci campaigns have walked in the shows. So they kind of like, you know, they're able to, that the shows don't pay, don't pay as much as you think they do. It's more of like the campaigns. But that's the problem is like a lot of this world and I kind of came off top model being like, oh, I need to do this and I need to try to like land all these big, big campaigns. But the commercial like target like commercials and campaigns and stuff, they pay almost more because they're being seen by more people. You know what I mean? Right. It makes a lot of sense.

And my head is just going into it. This is such a wild career because I think about, you know, when you're saying the words experience and you're saying like, oh, they don't have it, it's tough for me to really comprehend what that means. Because when I see, let's say, someone else in the arts, like a singer, it's so crystal clear. Like Adele is like, I mean, listen to those chops. In the modeling world, I don't really get, obviously everyone's beautiful. I get that. But I don't really get what the experience is. So when you're going for some, of these big contracts. What is really differentiating? How are they making the decisions of Laura over someone else? I would love to know that answer. I don't know. I think if we all knew that answer, and I mean, I think it goes the same with like the acting world. A lot of times, it physically comes down to the way you look. And I tell people this all the time that are like starting off in this industry where I'm like, it should give you a little bit of relief in a way that 99% of the reason why you're not getting a job is because of the way you look. And some people are like, what do you mean? I hate that. Like, I should do this or I should change

this. There's not much you can really do. You know what I mean? And it should just bring some relief to people because a lot of these things genuinely come down to the way you look and the way that you're going to appear in that campaign. I mean, it seems like if it comes down to the way you look and there's so much you can't control, there's probably like a very small checklist of things you can control, right? Like, I guess you can control the colors of your hair if you dye them, the length of your hair. If you go on like, like, you could probably control your physique in crazy, probably unhealthy ways. I mean, you can probably obviously get surgeries and stuff, but how mentally taxing does that become in this profession thinking

about those, like, exploring those areas of like outlying unhealthy things to do to get the roles if you're constantly being declined for these jobs? It's honestly, it's a never-ending process, which is truly why I kind of did have to take a step back. You know, I will still model now depending on the job and things like that. But I genuinely, and the problem too is, you know, I was so young that you're being placed with these agencies that no matter how small I was, whatever my measurements were, I was continually asked to lose more weight. And it was just, I got to the point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I can't be with this agency anymore because I don't know what I can do. Like,

I physically don't know. There are only so many things that you can change about the way that you are genetically like made. Do you know what I mean? And yeah, it's difficult. It was a really, really difficult time to be in L.A. kind of alone. You know what I mean? Like I was out there by myself. I didn't know anybody and sort of being told like you need to change this and you need to change that. So and I also, I tell people this too and when they're when they're discouraged about not, you know, booking jobs and things like that, if you continue to sort of chase, you know, I'm going to lose more weight or I'm going to gain weight or I'm going to dye my hair blonde because the girl in that commercial is blonde,

and that's the same one I auditioned for. If you keep sort of chasing what somebody else looks like or what somebody else is doing, then your opportunity will never come. And I wish that I knew that then. I wish that I knew that authenticity is the most important brand and is your brand. And I think it's funny because we all try to like,

what is my brand and what can I do to like really make myself different from everybody else? But at the same time, it's like if you just come back to yourself and you just figure out who you are, that's the most authentic and that's your brand, you know? Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense and that doesn't that doesn't just speak to modeling. That speaks to literally every form of like business or professional services. Like your brand is already within yourself. The question is to your point, have you found it? One thing I'm curious about Laura is you've we've talked about

the reality show kind of like the little bit of lack of experience stigma there. We've talked about the big agencies. Would you say it's a consistency regardless if it's the reality show or the big agencies, that the pressure to be losing weight and look a certain way is always on? I mean, yeah, thankfully, I have not knock on wood. I haven't really had to deal with that in the acting world, unless sort of happening behind the scenes and I just don't know it. But the modeling world, yeah, I mean, it was definitely, this was also 10 years ago, like I said. So they do say that the industry is changing. I'm not 100% sure if that's true. Yeah, I mean, it's not a stigma. I mean, it literally happened to me. And no matter what, like, I would show up to a job.

I showed up to a job one time. And again, I was like the smallest I had ever been. And they had the clothes there. And I had my measurements. Everything was great. And I didn't fit any of the clothes. And they ended up just deciding that I was going to do like a maternity shoot instead. And I was like, you know what? Jesus Christ. I was like, you know what? I think I don't want to do this anymore. And that was really sort of the turning point for me. It was just kind of like, you know, no matter what I did. But again, if I had leaned into my authentic self at that time and really sort of like realize I don't actually like need to listen to these people, I can just decide what works for me and just go that way, I probably would have been, it probably would have been a completely different, you know, career for me. But you're young and you don't realize that stuff until you sort of get older.

And I think now is a little different because people talk, people have podcasts like this to be able to listen to things like this. You know, back then there was like nothing. There was nothing really like this. Yeah. It was you yourself against like the big giant and really not a way to benchmark anything. Yeah. And nobody talked about it. Nobody ever wanted to be like, oh, this feels shitty. You know, like what should I do? You know? Yeah. And I think that's kind of also one of the problems too. Because if you talk about it, if you talk about the show that, you know, things were happening behind the scenes, then there's that big like,

unspoken leverage that the people at the top will cut your, you know, your feet off before you can walk. And they'll make sure you, they kind of like blacklist you in these certain opportunities. And for sure. I mean, yeah, I never, I think I never experienced that on the actual show, but I did experience it like basically right out of the gate when I went into the world right after. Just wild. All right. Now, let's, let's turn this into a positive note here. Can you think about one gig in the modeling aspect of your career that was like a home run? You made a bunch of money off it. It was a good brand, good experience that you look back on and we're like, I'm proud of that one. It's so funny because the modeling world was like such a, honestly, like, such a traumatic, like,

world for me that I just like look back in it now and I'm like, oh, I blacked a lot of stuff out. I just remember, like, you know, one of the, I've always, I always wanted to work for guests. Like, that was one of my biggest things. And so I got really lucky because right after top model, I just sort of like fell right into that, obviously because of the campaign. But then they had me come back and consistently work with them for quite a bit. And that was, for me,

that was just kind of like a moment where I was like, I'm proud. Like, I'm excited that this is a company that I've wanted to work for for a long time. It's very like on brand for me. I was like always just like, you know, I liked,

I loved like the sexiness of the brand and like kind of what it stood for and things like that. And so I just, that to me was kind of one of the big highlights for me. I worked with like, you know, one day we did this crazy shoot with like Tiesto and helicopters and I was like, this is crazy. I'm like 23 and this is just wild. But yeah, I would say that was probably good. But yeah, as far as modeling goes, I mean, I definitely blocked a lot of stuff

out. That is awesome. I want to transition to the next part of your career, but a gig like that, what do you make? A couple thousand bucks in a day? Yeah, I mean, more than that. Some of them actually, like some of them you make up to like 10, sometimes 50K, you know? Wow. Yeah, it really, it really Depends. Yeah. All right. There's some serious bucks. I love it. At what age did you say I'm done with modeling? And was it that maternity shoot experience that was that the breaking point for you? Like, what was your breaking point? What age did you change? The breaking point, I think for me was that when I really started to audition more for TV and film, because I went to my agencies that I thought through the through top model pretty much right away. And I said, look, I want to act. I wanted to act my whole life. Kinney set me up with some agencies of who to meet, and I can, I really want to start auditioning. And to me, it was kind of the difficult balance of trying to, like, run and do a bunch of, like, castings in downtown L.A., but then I had an audition. And I always was more excited about the auditions. I was more excited about learning my lines and figuring out who I was

and my character and all that stuff. And so for me, it was just kind of like this, it was a time management thing, I think, for me, what kind of, like, forced me into transitioning fully. to acting. I just couldn't really do both 100%. And that was the other thing too, is like I was doing, I was trying to do so much when I got off the show.

And what I should have just done is followed my passion, which was acting. I should have just 100% got off the show and been like, I'm going to throw myself into some acting classes and go full force into that

because I know I love it. And I didn't. I kind of was like, I'm going to do work on my jewelry brand, I'm going to work on my art brand. I'm going to try to get my website made for this. And so I was doing all these different things. And it was taking away from the quality of one thing.

Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. But one of the tough things, I think, especially easier said than done. And people in all industries deal with this as they're transitioning to other opportunities or other industries or different gigs is the whole financial aspect. And that's one of the things a lot of people will ask. Like, how did financially you manage the transition and what did you do to prepare for it?

For yourself, when you're going to these auditions to be enacting, I'm assuming, and I don't know much about that industry, but you're not getting paid to audition. So how are you bridging the gap financially to still say, like, financially healthy while you're transitioning into a whole different realm of work? Well, it's funny because, you know, I was working, I was like making consistently okay money doing modeling, but it was just like it killed my soul. afterwards, like in the long run. It just killed myself. So I started, you know, the money started swindling down and I kind of was a big believer at that time that things are going to happen.

Good things are coming. I'm going to get the big job. I'm going to get the big commercial. And so I sort of lived in this like false reality that there was money coming in instead of being in the realistic world of what is actually in your bank account, what is actually on your credit card statement and I say that now to everybody like be realistic you can still be positive but you have to be realistic and I wasn't and I also because I've been at like rock bottom like I went all the way up at the top and then I was at the bottom and now I'm like somewhere up here which is great but I've been in really really bad financial areas and I've been able to get myself out but the problem though is when I first started and I made that transition into acting I like refused to

like do side jobs. I like refused to get back into the world of like bartending or waitressing or things like that because I was so worried. My ego was so worried that somebody would be like, are you Laura from America's Next Top Model? Oh my God. Hi. What are you doing working here? And I was so nervous about it. But I was in such financial difficulties trying to get myself through acting class and trying to get my throat self through the rent and living in Hollywood that I like refused to do that and get in that work. world of sort of picking up those side jobs and those side hustles until you kind of are forced into it, which sort of happened. And so at some point, then you had to get some type of side hustle

to bring cash inflow? Yeah, exactly. And so I remember there was a day, the big turning point for me is I was at the gas pump. And they had just taken like a credit card, you know, a credit card payment out. And the credit card was like in the negatives. The bank account was in the negative. And I was like, what am I supposed to do? I was like, I can't physically drive my car. And I remember like scrounging for change trying to like put some money in my car so I could get home. And then I was like, you know what? But meanwhile, I was paying all this money for acting classes. I was trying to like, you know, whatever, keep up the facade of being in L.A. and being this cool person. And I was like, this is a turning point. And I started picking up different jobs. And I pulled myself out and I got back

on top because it was one of those things though where I almost had to get to that point to understand the importance and the seriousness of money. Yeah, I think like anybody that does have like an ultimate restart, there is that breaking point. It's different for everybody. It's, it's and it can't be. No one can really feel that. No one can tell you. I mean, 100 people could tell you over and over, Laura, go get the side job. Laura, you got to do this. You got to do this. But nothing is going to happen until like you yourself break and you go through that moment. To give context, though, in the years leading up to this breaking point, and you could, like, rough estimates, fine, but, like, what's, like, the best year you had in modeling

and then worst year leading up to this? Like, 70,000, 100,000, low years, 20, like, what, to give a context to this? Yeah, I mean, I was saying, like, between 70 and 100, you know, but it's expensive to live in L.A. And I was, you know, unfortunately, yeah, it was so expensive. And I, I, I never really, you know, I know now, like you have a business manager who handles your finances. I was never really like given a heads up about that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Like nobody sort of will ever come in and be like, hey, you're making a lot of money. I mean, unless people do for other people, which I'm jealous. I wish that happened to me. But nobody really comes in and they say, hey, you're making a lot of money. Do you know what you're doing? That doesn't really happen. And so it's one of those

things where when a lot of money starts coming in, you keep thinking that money's always going to come in. And the modeling and acting world is one of those things where you don't really know when your next paycheck's going to be. So you kind of don't, you just assume that it will, but you don't think like, oh, I could get dropped any minute from my agencies. And then I'm out of work until I find somebody else that wants to hire me, you know? And so there's a lot of different factors that you don't really think about when you're making a lot of money. Yeah. What if it's a fascinating. I mean, so many great learning lessons and just a whole different world. And then, so, Laura, you have this breaking point. You start getting some side hustle. What is the first job, like the little side hustle

gig you got to start bringing some cash in? Oh my God. Which one? Well, I started walking dogs. I was walking dogs for like, you know, I literally had like, I remember one time I had like 12 dogs at the same time and I'm just like walking down Santa Monica Boulevard with all these dogs. And I'm like up in Hollywood Hills and and I just remember being like, oh, this is insane. And then I did like, you know, some consulting with some like aspiring models to this like company that I worked with. And, and then I just started really getting myself back on track. And then the auditions got better. And then I started doing more movies and then a couple movies here and a couple of these there and, you know, better quality auditions. And so it just sort of snowballed. I was working

at like a florist even. I was doing deliver. service for like a florist. I was doing anything that I could that people wouldn't see me and recognize me as like, were you, Laura? Did I see you in that show the other day? Okay, I'm so glad you actually brought that up because there are so many people that will see, you know, Laura James or they could Google Laura James or hear your story and they're going to hear that you want America's Next Top Model. They're going to see the movies and shows you were in, but those are the lessons. They're not going to see the sacrifices that you did make to get to where you are. and to stay on the path of living your dream as opposed to like dream completely washed away

and having your story written by someone else or some other company. I think that's fantastic and I'm glad you lay into it. I do want to ask you this. Have you kind of addressed that whole ego issue of literally doing jobs only so people wouldn't see you? Or is that something that's just like who Laura James is? Or do you look back at that? and you're like, who gave a shit? Like, what's your perspective on that, Laura today? That she needs to, like, get a grip and that nobody cares. Like, nobody cares.

It's so funny. It's the same. The only way I can sort of describe this for people to understand who are not in the modeling world and understand what I'm saying as far as, like, when ego goes, when you go to a gym and you always, like, when you go to the gym for the first time and you're, like, a new member, your first thoughts are like, everybody's looking at me like I'm so embarrassed like everybody's staring at me nobody's staring at you because everybody's so concerned about themselves they don't give a shit about you and so i literally

if i look back in it now i probably i knew i loved the hospitality industry i still do i knew i loved restaurants i knew i loved hotels and so it's very annoying to me because i look back on that now and instead of being embarrassed i should have been like you you have a degree in this you should be using this to make some good money. And I could have made some really good money. And I also loved waitressing. I loved waitressing. I loved meeting new people. But my ego got in the way where I was like, you're better than this. Yeah. Interesting. All right. Well, let's get into acting just a little bit. So someone that hears this saying like, you know, you just told your agents you want to go start auditioning. I think like people sit around and have beers and they're like, yeah, what would

you want to do? And someone's like, yeah, I would try acting. But no one knows shit about the whole industry. when you decide that you want to start going to, you know, auditions, what is that like, how many auditions do you have to go to to potentially land a gig? And when you go to these auditions, like, what exactly are you doing? Well, so auditioning now is very different than how it was, obviously, 10 years ago, but even auditioning three years ago is different than it is right now because of the pandemic, obviously. But when I first started off, and it's funny because when you go in for like a modeling casting, basically what happens is like your modeling agent

will send 10 girls that they think will be great for the job. Acting is a little different. You have to have the casting director has to either know you or like you or has seen you before in order for you to get into the room with them or they have to have a really good agent. And the problem too is like when I first started off, I had no idea how auditions worked.

I was like, I'm just going to go in and like see what happens and hopefully it's great. Hopefully I get the job. But if you're really bad, which a lot of times I was because I was just starting and I was so green and I didn't know anything about the industry, they just like won't have you back for like a year or maybe ever if you do a really bad audition. So you have to really sort of bring it for them to want to see you again. And you go in and you have your audition and you have maybe like one or two takes to

if you're lucky to sort of nail it. and then that's it. And 99% of the time you will not get, 99.999, you will not get the job. You have to go in assuming you probably won't get this, but that you want to do the best you can do. Wow. And so when you're doing an audition, how many, like when you're memorizing these lines, how many lines are you memorizing for an audition typically? Oh, well, sometimes it depends on the role. Like if it's a, if it's just a small guest star or a co-star, Like, you just have maybe one or two pages of dialogue. If you have a series regular or a heavy recurring role, you know, that's in 10 out of 14 episodes or something like that, you're sometimes memorizing, like, seven pages of dialogue.

And a lot of times you don't get the opportunity to have a month to work on it. You have maybe a day or two, and then you have to do it. So what's your tactic as an actress to memorize seven? pages of lines. Do you have like a strategy used to jam it into your head somehow? Yeah. I mean, I got really lucky because memorizing has always been really easy for me. I have a lot of friends who are actors that it's really difficult for them. But I mean, I memorized my way through accounting in college. I had no idea how to do it. I just figured out the way that it looked and I memorized how I was supposed to do. It was very weird.

So I for now, what I usually do is I think it helps to like first understand exactly. what it is you're saying. And that helps you sort of make it more human. And I write. So I'll write like everything out in my own handwriting. And then I'll just say it over and over and over and over again and go for, I either get on the treadmill or I go for a long walk and I just say it out loud while you're walking. And it helps a lot. That's a good tactic because that's a memorization skill set like that. People can use in all their different career worlds or preparing for a big delivery of a speech or a presentation or literally even a date if you're trying to remember things to ask if you can't go so it's such a good practice people could yeah no even if you're

not in the absolutely like if you're doing speeches and things like that like writing your speech out i honestly want to say i don't want to be dramatic but like five times six times in a row like if you can just do that and then just say it out loud as many times as you can as many different ways as you can. Like if you have a big speech for like a big corporate event or something, like I challenge people to do the speech like five different ways. Like one, if you're really angry at the crowd, two, if you're really happy and excited to be there. Three, and just do it different emotions because you might find that you get inspired by different things. And I try to do that as well. That's really cool. All right. The last question I have about acting because it's been so cool

to check into both of these industries, two industries we have not touched on this show, but is like payments. So we've see, you know, you see people that are like background actors. They get paid. My understanding is like a few hundred bucks for the whole day. And then you see like the crazy, unrealistic monopoly dollars that like a George Kluenor, Leonardo Caprio gets. How is everything else in between determined how much an actor will make on a gig? Like, how does that work? So first of all, if it's, if it's union or non-union, that's, I'll speak specifically. to if you're in a union, which is what I'm in, because I've never done anything non-union. So my union is SAG. And a lot of things are sort of predetermined within SAG. So if you are going up

for a procedural show, like something on CBS, NBC, ABC is already a rate. They'll say something like there's a rate for the co-star. There's a rate for a guest star. There's a rate for sometimes a recurring. But a lot of those are negotiable depending on your agent and depending on the amount of credits that you have. So there is some wiggle room, but a lot of times when you are going out to audition, they might say something like, this is, this is all you're going to get. If that's a problem, the rate, then like let us know now because like basically there is no wiggle room. If you're obviously a very big name, there's a lot of negotiation opportunities to sort of get your rate higher. But a lot of times things are kind of already predispositioned for that.

Okay. And so like when the friends, when you hear like friends are making a million dollars an episode, what happens is their rate at first for the show before it kicks off is extremely low. And then rating skyrocket and then they'll renegotiate. Is that pretty much how that would work? Yeah. So a lot of times to like let's say for instance, like if it's a show that you are a series regular on. Like, let's just say, like, it's a CW show or something like that. So what does that mean CW show? Oh, CW is like the network. Like the network CW or like any, any network. Like, let's say to HBO. Yeah, exactly. So let's say you're going out to audition for a series regular for one of those shows. Your rate as a series regular, let's say you make

$40,000 an episode. Let's just say that. You're making $40,000 an episode. A lot of those shows will make you sign a contract for like up to six years in case that show does get picked up and they're usually to sort of protect themselves they don't want you to be like oh the show got picked up so now you guys are going to pay me 80 an episode instead of 40 so they will have in the contract if the show gets picked up your salary will increase by X amount of money I don't know if all shows do that I just know that I don't know about the reality world if that's something that happens in the reality world, but I know as far as scripted shows, a lot of it's really protected within a lot of the sad contracts. But there, again, is room for like negotiations, I'm sure.

And then is there more money to be earned in television shows or movies? I think TV, honestly, but it depends because if it's a really good movie, movies could pay good. Like, I'm about to do a movie in a month, but it's like a micro budget. I mean, it's going to be like 200 a day or something like that. It's not going to be, I'm not doing it for the money, but I'm doing it because I love the script. And a lot of times you get these projects

where you're like, the project is so good, but the money is so bad. So you kind of have to like weigh that, you know, am I going to waste, you know, 15 days working on this movie

and probably not make a lot of money, but do I want to do it because it's like, it's a really good project and it actually has the opportunity to like go somewhere bigger. With television, I think that there's a, lot of room for your rates to increase. And I think that TV usually have a lot of money more or so

than movies. It's really hard to get movies funded right now. It's either really, really, really, like the rock, like, you know, the rock kind of movies, like they're George Clooney, like they're big, fat movies. Or they're sort of these like micro budget sort of independent movies where like people are getting together and they're like, we want to create, but we can't get anything funded. And people, you know, TV is pretty immediate. So TV has a little bit more long so you get in with a series and you're doing five seasons you're making money interesting that is so and it's still so like bewildering to me how people will say like the rock and that's like the top movie like i mean this guy it's his story the rock is like the i think he's the highest paid i think he's a highest paid

actor right now either male actor or actor actor and i mean that came ever it's nuts it came from from WWE. Like, what the hell? It's wild. I know. It's crazy. It's really crazy. Yeah, really interesting to learn more about kind of how the financials work behind the movies, the television shows, et cetera, and in your specific example. The last question I have for you, before we get your trading secret, is if someone has heard you talk about the acting world and they say, you know what, I only have one life. I would love to give something like that a shot. at least just try not saying i'll make it but at least try where would you suggest that person listening to this podcast start boy honestly like it is don't yeah number one don't find a job that

like you know that you can put your head on the pillow each night and you're like i can pay my bills great but if they weren't to do that and they were like me and they still wanted to do it even though this industry is ridiculous. I would say, and I hate when people give me this advice, but it's so true. Make your own way. Right now, I think everything with social media, there's so many opportunities for people to create their own content. And all it takes is sort of like one thing to get you to the place that you need to be.

You know, one person needs to see it, some agent, some producer, some director needs to see you doing something to kind of get there. I think like cold emailing agents and managers being like, hey, I want to be an actor. Like, can you help me out? I don't think that that's a good look. I think sometimes it works for some people and I think most of the time it doesn't. It kind of makes you look, you know, like you don't really know what you're doing. So I would say honestly, like get with people, like-minded people who want to do the same thing that you want to do and create content, create movies and create short films and try to get it into a festival. Like, that's what I would say. It's a tangible thing that

you can do. Get with a friend who's a director. Get with somebody else who's a writer. Create a little short film and try to get it produced. And if you don't do that, then I would say, I don't know. I think I would just do that. I think I would literally just try to, like, take this industry into your own hands if you're starting out. I think you're right, though, like make your own way, especially you can get a friend and you can write a script and you can act. If that's really what I'm doing, go do it.

Go do a little short story, put it on TikTok, who the hell knows where it goes. Exactly. That was my last question, but I shit, I have one more follow up. I got to ask because you brought social media. How drastically has that changed the game? Are you now seeing people that just have these huge. followings that are getting these roles with no acting experience now because they have these big followings like is that completely changed the acting game it has completely changed it's one of those

things where i i sort of struggle a lot with the social media aspect of just everything that's going on right now because i am constantly battling i'm such a private person this is like my second interview like a personal just like fun interview ever basically and i'm like not much of a you know let's just talk about things. And so I constantly am struggling with the social media aspect because I'm so private, but I know that if I did sort of like lean into it, I probably would be able to capitalize on so much more, but I'm so private that it's really quite a struggle. But for people who, yeah, I've seen come off of social media, come off of even Vine and come off of like TikTok and now they're acting, they do. Industry professionals care about what your social media

numbers are. It's actually really important. And sometimes, like, it can, I've heard through to grapevine that it really can come down to like, this person has 300,000 followers. This person has 25K. We have to go to 300K, even if they're not necessarily better. So it has a huge impact, actually, right now. The whole industry is crazy. Okay, this is a two-second question because I can ask you a million, but I'm just going to ask you this one last, I promise I'm done. and it'll take two seconds. You just signed this movie, $200 a day. You said you really like the script.

I'm just curious about how many pages is the script and how many times are you actually reading this thing through before you say to yourself, oh, I really like this script. Once for me. I know pretty much right away when I want to do a project is if I've read a 120-page script and it feels like it went by like that. if I'm reading a script or I'm you can read a script though

when it just says like Jason says this Laura says this and in your brain you could like imagine exactly how it's going to play out yeah that's crazy yeah for sure and a lot of times you kind of know a lot of times you know who the DP is like the

person the the cinematographer like you you kind of already know the name of who's attached or you'll know the director of who's attached so in a way like my brain is reading the script and sort of visualizing those people making it look a certain kind of way and what the shots would look like. That makes sense. It does make sense. It is a wild, wild, wild industry. So I pretty much

know, I pretty much know right away. Okay. Interesting. So many questions. I could ask you a hundred more. I'm going to stop there. It is a wild industry. I think the interesting thing about acting and actress and being an actor in general is we see the rock, right? We see the George Clooney. And everyone I think thinks like because you're an actor, you're famous, when the majority of people that do it don't become that and they make a full career out of it. And there's so many nuances about the industry. It's so cool to have you pull the curtain back a little bit and tell us more. Laura, we're going to wrap with one trading secret, something that someone couldn't read in a textbook or learn in a classroom, just that you've learned along your really, really

amazing journey in the last 10 years. So what can you leave us with? What is your trading secret the viewers can look forward to hearing. I don't even, I hope this doesn't come off as cheesy, but I'm telling you this is something that I wish I learned a long time ago, and I'm telling you just be as authentic as you can possibly be, because that will, once you drop into who you are as a person and you surround yourself with people who allow you to be authentic, I think that's the other thing. If you're in a relationship right now, that's you're not being allowed to be authentic and you have to sort of be a version of yourself, try to get out if you can. If you're around

friends who are not letting you be an authentic person being around those people, it's just going to like weigh everything else down in your life. And I think that once you drop into like the most authentic version of yourself, that's when financial sort of relief will come your way. That's when relationship things will change for you. And pretty much everything. And that's kind of what I wish I knew back then. Yeah, there's so much truth and reality to that. And the thing is, Laura, is like, that's what you wish back then when you were 23. And the reality is so many people go their entire lives without doing any bit of that self-examination down to like the core of their bedrock to really understand who they are. And until I love what you said. I wrote it down as you

said it. When you drop into that, literally your life will unfold right in front of you. So that is, that's a great trading secret. We really appreciate your time. 100%. And also like don't, don't, yeah, and don't let like the society, like the societal pressures, you know, of making sure that you have the best car when you can't afford the best car, making sure that you need this to sort of like prove yourself that you have money. Like I've had the same car since I was 16 years old and there's nothing wrong with it. And I have no intention of buying another car, even though I absolutely can afford to. there's no reason for me to do that.

I would pull up to like the best places in my little Mazda 3, 2008, and, you know, be in charge of your finances in a way that's not, you know, you don't have to prove to society that you have something when you don't need to. I love it. Do it for yourself and no one else. Well said. Laura, this has been awesome. Thank you for giving us more time than we scheduled you for.

We appreciate it. And where can people find everything you have going on if they want a little bit more, Laura James in their life? Well, I'm so bad at social media. The only thing I pretty much use is Instagram, and that is at Laura Ellen James. There you go. At Laura and Ellen James, maybe could ask her how to get into acting and she will tell you just not to do it. So, but check it out. We appreciate your time and we will talk soon. Thank you so much, Laura. Ding, ding, ding. We are ringing in the closing bell on the Laura James episode, America's Next Top Model

Champion actress model there was a lot of deep conversation there and a whole ton of takeaways Curious Canadian tell me what are you thinking what's going on Well I just got back from Italy and let me tell you on the streets of Italy I feel like every human being could be a contestant

on America's Next Top Model because they're just they just do it right over there What a trip but happy to be back with you in the pod It's good to be back And good to be back and I will tell you that I truly think this is one of our best episodes that we've done. Wow. I know I come on and say a lot that we have a lot of good guests,

but I think the relativity that she was able to bring to the situation, I think that your drill downs and getting the numbers that the people's cray was excellent. So first and foremost, I just want to say, great job, Jay. Let's call. Thank you so much, David. That is, it's rare that you actually have that takeaway because I'm surprised by that.

Like, because I will send you the episodes and then you, David will listen to him and then we recap, and I never know what you're going to expect it. I'll be honest, like, I thought it was a good episode. I didn't think I'd expect that out of you, but I love that. Yeah, honestly, like, I didn't know who Laura James was before, and I love that because I would expect our viewers to not know everyone that we're going to have episode after episode, 53 episodes in, you know, hopefully we do this for five, 10 years.

So to have that kind of freshness to it was great. One of my biggest takeaways that I think you should really like and we should really like and hopefully our viewers like when she talked about how this type of podcast wasn't around when she came off America's next top model as the winner where she had $100k in her bank account and she thought the best investment was buy a furnished apartment with a dormant and a gate and all those things. And, you know, she kept saying it over and over. There weren't podcasts like this around. So that's just a really cool takeaway that I had for sure. How do you feel about that? It's relatable. And I think it's something that people now more than ever, especially when

they're younger need to think about when they get these new big jobs that are probably paying like they're probably paying what your parents are sticker shocked by like these 21, 22, 23, 24 year olds coming out of school, probably getting big salaries given inflation and the employment market right now. But you just heard it from her. Be smart about what you're spending. And if you're a parent out here or you are one of those people, listen to, I'm going to give you a little quick tip on the spending with the rent thing. I'm going to do a whole tutorial of this on the restart Instagram, but the price to rent ratio, it will give you an idea based on the city that you live in, how many years, based on average rent, you could own a house if you paid

just rent based on the median value of real estate in your city. So it gives you an idea if like you're in a city where the median house value is low and you're renting, like let's say I'm looking at a map right now, Detroit in Memphis. In five years in Detroit, of renting based on the median home price. And in 10 years of Memphis of renting, you would own a home. So really think about economically, it doesn't make sense to rent. And when you are renting, make sure you're not blowing all your money away like Laura. I just, she said if she could go back and do it, she would have got like the dumpiest place or even lived in like a friend's, a friend's couch or like borrowed a friend's car to stay in, like just how fast that went by.

I just thought overall she was just so relatable, you know, talked about living with what her actual bank account or credit card statement was, not what past or future expectations were. The story of her scrounging for change in her car to fill a booze. It's just like a wake up moment or not wanting to get certain jobs, like go back to waitressing because like, aren't you that Laura James girl? I just thought it was so good. And we've all been on that situation where we may think like, you know, we're doing something that were better than, but it doesn't match our realities.

I also loved how raw she got with all that stuff. Some of the things she was saying was so relatable, right? I mean, you're like, damn, I never, thank you for sharing that type vibes. So I think it was, yeah, great episode. I was surprised, though, when she was like, I was embarrassed to go work at a restaurant because I couldn't be seen. Like, I'd be like the failure. And I think that's something I talk about all time and even in the book, that having that worry

and that fear of other people's perception is what will completely dream. around you. Well, you got to think after listening this episode that you come out of the modeling world, you got to be the most jaded person ever. Like you got to come out of that with the less fucks given out of anything because you've seen the worst of the worst. I mean, the story of her showing up for the shoot, not fitting the clothes and then pivoting to like, oh, all of a sudden you're going to be in a maternity shoot. Like you go through that enough. You're going to get over all of those fears, but it's going to obviously creep into your daily life when that's the industry that you work in. So I, stories like that, like, how could you not be jaded or, or self-conscious when

you're going through it? It's unbelievable. And credit to her for speaking about this stuff, because the more of this stuff is talked about, the more change is being created. You're seeing that change. A fucking crazy industry. But you know me, David. I want to also talk about the money behind the industry. Yes. So I am going to ask you the dollar amount. In 2021, what do you think the number one paid model, who was it and how much was it? And it's just modeling income. I'm going to say Kendall Jenner, as my guest. And I'm going to say that off modeling alone, she makes $7 million. That's probably low. This guy reads a lot. He reads a lot out there. So it is Kendall Jenner. I'm not surprised you knew that. But it's $40 million. She made $40 million off

modeling in 2021. Okay, take a random stab at number two. Who do you think it might be? The modeling world. Modeling world. I'm going to stick in the same kind of friendship circle. I'm going to go Bella Hadid. Okay. And I'm going to go second most. She's probably clocking in at like 30.

Curious Canadian, might be a little confused in some of the financial terms, but not on his modeling terms. Adriana Lima, 30 million. I'm going to read the rest of the list here. Kara, dude, this is how bad I am with pop culture. Kara Della, Delevin. Deleveen? Deleveen? 19 million. Rosie Huntington, Whitley, 9 million. Gigi, Hadee, 9 million. Now, I know we talked about acting. So let's go in the acting space.

David, let's do the same thing. Twenty-twenty-one. Number one actor. How much did he make strictly off acting? Rock, 125 million. Wow. Dwayne Johnson, I think he probably made a hundred million plus last year, just given his brand. But 42 million off of acting. He made $12,000. $22 million paycheck off Jungle Cruise. Okay, take your stab at number two for 2021. Number two, Leonardo DiCaprio, $37 million. Okay, I like it. Close guess, but it was Will Smith at $40 million. He may or may not make that list next year.

We'll see. Number three was Denzel Washington at $40 million. Number four was Angelina Jolie at $35.5 million. Number five, one of my favorites, Leonardo Caprio, $30 million. Leonardo Caprio and Denzel Washington are two of my top favorite actors of all time. I would, I mean, we've talked about The Rock a lot

wanting to get them on here, but it was so cool to have someone from this industry who kind of like gave us a shed some light on both to get someone who's had serious like movie roles, TV roles and see the difference between those and the commercials and the advertising and the brand deals would be awesome. One thing I want to bring up is one word I heard

over and over and over and over again was agent. It depends on your agent. Depends on your agent. Depends on your agency does. Depends if you have a good agent or not. Have you ever seen or heard and you know, you obviously

have the agency MTC that you do with all your clients. I'm heavy in the sports world with agencies and their impacts. But have you ever really seen an industry where your success is so dependent on your agency regardless of your look or your talent?

Honestly, the short answer, David, it's no. Here's why. In our world, we're sourcing really quality deals and appearances and events for people that are in influencing. But we're working to get that from the brands. And then we have to convince them and sell them why they should work with A, B, and C, which isn't too difficult. When you're a sports agent, one of the interesting things are, I think your big influence comes from your negotiating power because you can't, it's all so objective. And what I mean by that is you have a player, you know that all their statistics. It's a science. You know their 40 record,

how much they squat, how fast they are, their touchdowns, whatever it is. So you're just negotiating. That's why you're there. The difference between this type of agency work and modeling and especially acting, if you're not one of these like top 10 people, you can make an argument based on relationship as to why someone should be in there. So my point is that the managers who are connected with the big players, they'll take their talent as like a favor. Because guess what? They could slot a million people into that role. Unlike being in the NFL, you can't slot a million people in that role. Unlike being an influencer, you can't pick from 100,000 different influencers. So this is a really interesting world where power, leverage, and relationship truly is almost everything for the masses. Yeah, I think

that's a great take. And with sports, I just think it's understanding the economics of the sport. Like, I'm going to try and get you a three-year deal instead of a five-year deal because that's when the new TV contracts is up and the salary cap's going to rise and all that. This, you just had the vibe. It's like if you try and insert your leverage for experience or previous wages, they'll say, oh, you think you're worth $100,000 for this shoot. I'll find, I have 10,000 models lining up for the first gig that'll do it for free. Exactly. So I just, that for me was so transparent. And I'm going to just put an opinion out there. that's what's one of the problem, I think, in Hollywood, is that these people at the top,

we've seen it with Harvey Weinstein, these people at the top have so much leverage to change someone's life instantaneously. And the issue becomes when that leverage is being used to a toxic level and what individuals are doing to get their way in other ways to leverage and flex that, right? We all know the power of TV. We all know the power of some of these roles. it's wild when you think about, you know, the power some of these people have at the executive level to make these decisions. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And just the fact, the fact that you know that some of these people in this industry aren't getting jobs based off looks, not talent, looks. It makes it really sad.

It's disgusting. I want to ask you one thing. We've talked about modeling. We've talked about acting. Have you ever done any modeling? And would you do any acting? If so, acting, what would you want to act? The only modeling I've ever done is when it's associated.

with a brand. So I don't know. I mean, I guess you would consider that modeling, but it's like, you know, stuff like that. What I act, I would act in a sec. I would love to act. In fact, I'm doing this, I do a podcast with Anne Hesha. I go on her show just as a guest once in a while to talk finance stuff. And I said in exchange, because I don't get paid. I do it because I think they're great. I said in exchange, I need you to hook me up with the best actor, teacher, like for acting lessons. So she can make an introduction because I think it would be so much fun to just learn about acting. So I would love to do it. I think, like, what is the best role I could play? I think, like, I think I could be like a, I don't know, I don't know, like, uh, like slick the

hair back throwing an accent, be like an Italian mobster or something. I, I, when you brought up in an intro that she did Young and the Restless, I've sneaky always wanted to be on a soap opera where it's just like, oh, dude. Dude, I just, where you, where you get the, you have like really easy lines. You just have to look super dramatic, like kind of look. the part and like I just think it would be like the funniest easiest like I think I would be a phenomenal soap I think I'd be horrific in like other things I think soap opera is like my genre I made I mean you know that I'll put it out here you are you got a lot of drama in your blood you got a lot of emotion in your blood let's say yes emotion I dude I've heard that being a soap opera

actor is the easy it's like that's where you start like if you want to get into acting it's where you start. The scenes are 11 seconds. Then it cuts to the next scene and the next scene. Now, all you do is stand there. You don't do anything but stand in one place and look dramatic and recite a couple of dramatic lines. It's just like inject it in my veins. David for soap opera actor of the year. I'm here for this. If I ever hear anyone or anyone out there does about openings for auditions, soap acting. So opera acting, let us know we're going to get David in the mix. Let's do it. Let's do it. Awesome. I loved it. It's good to be back. It's good to be back in America. And it's going to be back recapping with you. It's great episode. Like I said,

on the start. I think it's one of the best that we've done all around. I love it. Let's go. Exciting stuff ahead. David, it's good to have you back. People are probably confused because you're like, well, where did David go? David was in Italy, but what we did in advance is we recorded a few recaps in advance, knowing he was in Italy. So we haven't done it a while, but we are back and oh my God, we have some good guests coming up. We got Cushel Stouse. We got Pilot Pete talking. The cool thing about Pilot P is, yes, we talk about Paradise. We talk about some inside scoop stuff. He's never told anyone. But we get in the weeds on the aviation. world. So think about the airport

fucking disasters I've had. And most people have had. I get into all the weeds. Why are they delayed? How much you guys paid? How much is everyone? I mean, we get into it. So that's a good one. We've got Daniel and the Granio, professional poker player. We have some big names coming up. Chrisel Staus will be in the house. Jason

Oppenheim will be in the house. We got some big guests coming up. So make sure to give us five stars. Tell us who you want. Tell us what you want. We are thinking about adding one episode a month where we give you financial tips and tricks. So more to with that. Give us the feedback. Five stars. Please subscribe. We want to hear what you're saying in the recap. And thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets, one you can't afford to

miss. Thank you.