Trading Secrets - 58: Real Housewives’ Jill Zarin: The secrets behind RHONY, Ultimate Girls Trip & being in business with daughter Ally Shapiro REVEALED

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Check out The Restart Roadmap: Rewire and Reset Your Career now!   In this week’s episode, entrepreneur turned reality TV superstar Jill Zarin and her daughter Ally Shapiro join Jason as they break down the process of being cast on the original Real Housewives of New York, the workings behind their company, Jill and Ally, and Jill’s return to reality TV for the new season of The Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip. Jill and Ally give the inside scoop to the dollars behind attending those big charity events, what goes into running a business while self-funding, and looking back at their time on RHONY. How much were they originally offered when they were cast on RHONY and how did they negotiate? Is Jill coming back to reality television for good? What skill does Jill believe is critical when running your own business? Jill and Ally answer all of this plus provide so many more insights in another episode you can’t afford to miss!    Follow Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram here & join the Facebook group here.   Sponsors: Netsuite.com/secrets for special financing   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today I'm joined by entrepreneur-turned reality TV superstar, Jill Zarin, and her daughter, Ali Shapiro. Many of you may know Jill and Ali from their longtime roles on Bravo's The Routreveau. Real Housewives in New York. After quickly becoming a fan favorite on Roney, Jill decided to depart the reality TV show, which we're going to get into and began a new chapter of her life away from cameras. For the past 10 years, she has put all her focus on her family, businesses, and personal growth leading up to her upcoming return to reality TV, which we'll get into

the Real Housewife's Ultimate Girls Trip, X-wives Club, which premieres this week. Today, we're going to cover all her business ventures. Allie's ventures since being on the show from some time ago. And we're going to get into all the secrets that have gotten her and her family to where they are today. Jill and Allie, thank you guys so much for being here today. I am so excited to meet you in person. You are so, he's even cute or in person, girls.

That is so sweet. You're going to make me blush before the show starts. I love it. Well, I'm excited to have you guys. Your daughter was here before and we got talking a little bit. I mean, you guys are doing so, I heard about the NFT projects. Jill and Ellie, all the things you got going on. So we can move this in so many directions. But before we do, I got to come out swinging. We got to talk real housewives in New York. Yes. Here's what I want

to know. First and foremost, how did they find you back then? To make a long story short, Hollywood called. I mean, literally, that's how it happened. Where does Hollywood get your number? How did they think of you? That's the right question. So the show was already developed and they were looking to cast and they told this group of kids out in California, you know, go find, I don't, you know, rich women, kids, socialites, uh, in private schools in New York City, go find them. And it turns out that the guy who found me was like a 26 year old kid from London who like, what the hell does he know about New York socialites? Uh, but they were very creative.

Okay. So they went on a web, in my case, they went on a website called New York Social Diary. And back then, it was still the early days of the internet. It was 2005-ish. Okay. I think MySpace was still around, that kind of thing. And he went on-pre- Instagram, pre-face. Pre-all Twitter, pre-all of it.

In fact, I was number 15 million when I signed onto Twitter. They usually, they actually, you had a number when you signed on back then. And I knew I was like in the 15 million. Now they have 15 billion. Oh, like you were user number 15 million something. Okay, got it. And I actually remember that. In fact, Andy Cohn says that I was the one who told him about Twitter, which I think is very

funny. And I told Heather McDonald's about Twitter, too. Wow. It just shows you how old we are, by the way. And we look great. We're killing it. Anyway, so back to that. So New York Social Diary was a website that was created to follow the ins and outs of socialites in New York City and the charity events they went to.

Kind of like a town and country magazine online. Okay. And Allie and I had actually just recently gone to a chair. I did a lot of charity work and so did Allie because I wanted a teacher to pay it forward. those much as given, much as expected. It's in my book that we talked about, right? Much as given, much as expected. And so, Allie and I were involved in this charity called Artrageous,

where famous artists would literally create a piece of artwork on a particular Saturday with children and part of the program and inner city kids and anybody who wanted to come could create. And Ali actually worked on one with Jeff Coons. Jeff Coons on the floor. If you know, Jeff Coons is one of the big, my icon. iconic of our time. But back then, you know, he was still a big guy,

but he wasn't, you know, what he is now. So they would do this artwork on the floor and they were photographers there getting images and they took some pictures of Allie working with Jeff and with me and all this other stuff. And when they were looking, they saw that photo. Okay. And that's where they found it. And that triggered him to say,

oh, there's a mother and daughter. She's cute. She's cute. How do they find me? Literally 4-1-1. Back in the old days, kids, when you didn't know that before the Internet, there were actually things called yellow pages and white pages. But you could do it on the phone and dial 411.

I don't even know if they have that anymore. And there would be things called operators. And operators were people who could find what you're looking for. I mean, I feel like so ridiculous, right? But I bet there were young kids out there listening to this who really don't even know that. But it's funny because the core elements of casting are kind of similar now where like I see on TikTok all the time. People say I'm casting for the show.

Reach out to me. So it was similar where they saw us on this website. And they literally go through an operator. And the operator connects to what? Your home phone line? So this is how it goes. The guy calls up and says, you know, she says 411 information. And he'll say, hi, I'm looking for the phone number of someone named Jill Zarin in New York City.

And then she'll go, oh, on East 59th Street, on, you know, 74th Street, whatever, if there's more than one Jill Zarin. And here's the phone number. And I was not blocked because I wasn't, I'm still not blocked. But I wasn't blocked. And they gave him the phone number. So you got a cold call. So I get a phone call on my what's called now. I'm saying this very, you know, cheek, what's the tongue in cheek?

An answering machine. Wow. An answering machine was a physical thing. It wasn't like a, I know, it wasn't virtual like it is on your iPhone where it's a virtual answering machine. We actually had an answering machine that had tapes. You could see those in the antique show. We could see them on Law & Order when there's a crime and they want to hear the last phone message

and they take the tape downtown to listen to it. Yeah. Anyway, so it was taped, and I come home and there's, the light is lit, that there's a message, and I listen to my messages, and I remember it exactly, ready? Okay. I won't do it in a British voice, but it was British, because I can't speak in a British voice, unless I'm in England and I do the fake British voice, like everyone else. Let's hear it.

Let's hear this impersonation. Hi, my name is James Davis. I'm calling from Rickishay Television. We produce Supernanny. We are casting a new reality show about moms and their daughters. a daughter than their children in private schools in New York City. If you're interested, please give me a call. Here's my number.

Boom. So I played it. Bobby was in the room and I'm like, what do you think? I mean, they produced Supernanny. Supernanny was a big show back then on NBC and it was about a woman. I know. Of course, you know. Young kids don't know.

Our Gen Zs might not have a clue. They may not know. So it was a woman, I forgot her name, but she was a British nanny and she would go into people's homes and try to straighten out their kids. She'd clean it all up. Clean it all up and then leave and then they would, you know, be bad again. But anyway, I think the name was Joe. But that was a real show. So that gave a credibility to me that this wasn't a fake phone call.

Okay. So I do call back. I say to Bobby, what do you think? He's like, go for it. So I call back. And then, of course, that's the beginning of what happens, you know, look where we are now. But that was the beginning. And I wonder where James Davis is.

And I give him all the credit all the time because he had not picked my picture and picked someone else's picture. Who knows? Thank God for James Davis. There would be no Bethany, there'd be no Luann, there'd be no Jill. There'd be no Andy Cohen Twitter. There'd be no Adam McDonald's Twitter. I am the kind of person who loves to give credit to people for things that they do.

And I'm grateful, not like some people in my life who actually rewrite history and go on interviews and make up a story of how they got on the show. Well, we do have a made-up story from someone that said something about you that you're going to have to verify if it's true or false. That's coming. But before it does, when they cast you, what was the process? call you, then what do you have to actually go through for them to determine whether you're on? Remember, this was really early on. Yeah. It was pretty easy.

It was pretty, it was very easy. And my contract was five pages. No way. Contract was about 50,000 pages. No, no, literally. How many do you think it was? No, on a series, no, it was probably around 60. Right.

I was five. That's wild. Five pages. That's insane. Needless to say, they're not five pages anymore. I can imagine. So our sizzle reel, like our, you know, pre-taped to get casted, on the first episode. That's how

much they liked us because they love the I run with the fabulous circle of people came from my sizzle wheel, right? I was sitting in the back seat. So, okay, so what happened is I spoke to them and they said, could you just get yourself on tape? Put yourself on tape and send it to us

and let's see, you know, what you're like? A tape. So we had actually a V, what did they call? A VCR recorder? We had a VHS recorder. We actually had a VS with tape and everything. And I knew someone, I think his name was Mitchell. And he was a producer, he was doing some kind of reality stuff. And I'd called him and asked me if he would come over and tape me because I didn't know how to do it. Sure. I mean, I didn't have to do it. So he taped me, Ali and Gary, Gary, Bobby, standing in my living room. I can remember it. And Brad.

Was Brad there? Not there. No. And I literally was on tape because I saw it afterwards on one of these, you know, flashbacks on Bravo where it's like, hi, I'm Jill Zarin. I live in, I live in New York. I live in New York City. And, you know, I I owns Aaron Fabrics with my husband, Bobby, and I have a daughter named Dally, and she goes to private school and da-da-da-da-da, and have a dog, ginger, my little ginger. And it was about five minutes. And then I wait, and I get a phone call saying they loved it. They loved me.

And they wanted to see more. So would it be okay if they fly someone or they have someone come to my house and tape me for a day, just a day in the life up. And they're going to video it. One girl, one camera. I don't remember her name. She came to New York. And, you know, I did a little bit more.

I elevated it to more than, to do a lot in one day. I don't necessarily live my life like this in one day. Would you say you elevated your personality and the entertainment fact? No, no, meaning I did more things in one day for taping. I wouldn't have done. Okay, so this is what I did. We went to work. She came to me to my office.

Then I had my driver. I had a driver at the time. We drove to pick up Allie at school. Then I took Alley shopping at Barneys. Wouldn't do that normally on a school night. You know, like that's not like how we live on life. You're playing into it. Right.

Not playing into it, but I want to give them as much as I can. Then I remember coming home, and this is what I remember seeing on the show for years in years and years and years. I was, Bobby always loved cars and he had a Bentley. It was a beautiful car. And I was sitting in the back seat and I got my mail and I did this on camera and I said, well, let me just show you like what I get in a typical day, you know, being a socialite, what kind of invitations I get. And I start real life opening invitations. And it was in September, I think. So all the charity events and the ballet and the opera and all those invitations are showing up. And I open one up and it's from Denise Rich, who's a friend of mine and her Angel Ball,

which is a huge, huge charity event, but it started really right kind of back then. And I just said, I just said, you know, I run with a fabulous circle of friends or I said run with this fabulous circle of people because I was excited. I had all these great invitations. And it was kind of braggy a little bit, but that was what I was supposed to do, kind of tell them why they should want me. And I don't even know for what because I just want, you know, I'm competitive. So whatever it is, I want to get picked.

I don't know what it's for. I don't know what's going to happen, but I want to win. You know, that's my nature. That's why they probably picked me. So I remember saying that in the back seat of the car. And, of course, I remember saying to myself, that is so braggie, obnoxious. But thank God, no one's going to see it but them. Okay, got it.

And then they used it. Yeah. And then they used it. And I died because they had told me it was just forecasting. Okay. Interesting. But it was so good they had to use it. It was so good they had to use it.

But I would never really want to say something like that. Sure. Because I don't really speak like that. That's a little over the time. Yeah, I run with a fabulous circle of people. And here I am bragging about all the chat. I'm invited to, to pay. By way, invited to pay to go to. Well, that, okay, two rapid fire questions, because obviously money podcasts, I want to get back

to the story. Two rapid fire questions would be one, we talk numbers here. You're getting these events, these invites from like Denise Richards, all these people. Obviously, they're friends, but they're expecting you to go and obviously make a donation. What is the minimum donation that you're making at one of those events that you go to? Just to buy a ticket is $500. Okay. Just a ticket to sit in the back or whatever. To buy a table somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000. Okay. So you're probably on average spending either 500 up to max around $10,000 per one of these events. Well, the way I usually work, the way I operate usually is I'll buy a ticket. I don't really care as much where I sit because I don't want to care.

Whatever. What I do is I like to make a don't, let's say I say I'm going to make a $10,000 donation. Yeah. I'll buy two tickets for $1,000. And then I'll buy something in the live auction at the silent auction. Because I, being the way I am, like to get something for it. I like that. It's just the way I am. I can't help it. You give, you get. You give a lot. You get a little back. Here. You ready? So I went to an event the other night for a friend of mine.

Okay. I paid my $2,000 for the tickets. Okay. But I wanted to make a bigger donation. Lorraine Schwartz donated a ring that she only sells or gifts to her celebrity clients like the Kardashians. She told me, because I spoke to her afterwards, you know, the Kardashians have it. And she was actually wearing the ring that night. So, you know, it's not like she's bullshitting me.

Sure. And she says they're not for sale. But she did it because the people who were having the event were very good. friends, and I'm sure customers of hers. So she wanted to make it nice and give her something. So I bought it. How much? 8500.

There you go. Want to see it? Let's see it. There you go. It's a love ring by Lorraine Schwartz. I mean, this thing is beautiful. We'll give it to the cameras, give it a little look there. That's beautiful.

Lorraine Schwarz makes beautiful jewelry. Oh, that's gorgeous. It feels great. It fits great. And I did it for a good cause. So, you know, generally, and there's nothing wrong with doing it that way. That's great. I love it.

Okay. Second rapid fire question. Then we're going to get back to the Housewives. When you said you had a driver, just curiosity, people might be wondering, what is a driver? If you have a driver, like, what is the cost of that? What do you pay a driver? Well, back then, you know, the driver we had also worked in our warehouse. Okay.

So he wasn't full time. I mean, he wasn't. He used to pick up Bobby's mom in the morning and bring it to the office, get a hot lunch, you know, do that. And then if, and then I'd get picked up. And we had a routine. And then I'd go to work for a few hours. And then we'd pick. And then he'd go up town to pick up Allie and bring her home.

then he'd come back down and pick up me and take me home, and then he'd go back, and then he'd go take his mother home. I mean, he was always, you're right, he was pretty much a driver. I would say back then, I don't know, anywhere, anywhere between 600 a week, remember 20 years ago, and you get insurance, all that says, 600 a week to 1,000 a week. Do you think now with Uber, Bobby would have had a driver still or no? Bobby would have always had a driver. He loved the, he just did, and his mother, because you can't send an Uber for his mother.

I'm not going to mention her, you couldn't send her because she has to go pick up her chicken at Boston Chicken and then she's got to go again. The drugstore, you know, whatever. She's got her errands store on. So you always had a driver. But I would say for you and me, I wouldn't have needed him to come up. Like a lot of times, I would, you know, try to figure, you know, I'd say Bobby, I'm like Bobby and Gary, they're the same names.

You know, I've got to go, return something at Sacks. So I got to do this or that. Can you send, I'm not going to use his name, send Bob, you know, whatever, up to the house to take me. Got it. Now I'd call Uber. I wouldn't even think twice. I wouldn't bring a man all the way from downtown. To just come get you to go to sex.

Up to 60th Street to take me to run errands, I just would call him over. Okay, all right. Those are the two rapid fires. Let's get back to, so you get casted, you get the contract. We know the contract's five pages. I have one of your counterparts tell me about the negotiation process. A lot of times I talk about negotiation process because someone at home and their job might take something from what you did or what someone else's did to help their cause.

When you got the contract, did you negotiate it off? for how much you were paid to go on the show. Well, it's very simple. We were offered $500 an episode. Yep. Let me repeat that. We were offered $500 an episode. I think it was $5,000.

Okay. And I had a top lawyer at Greenberg, Torg, like the top lawyer, head of the department, whatever, and he actually couldn't get me any more money. And he tried. And he was representing me and a few others. And then I find out, this is very funny.

that Simon from Brooklyn, right, the couple, that he was getting $7,500 for the season. And I was furious, not, listen, do I care about $2,500? I never did it for the money, obviously. Right. Obviously. And I never knew if there'd ever be any money. And I can tell you why I did the show.

Well, it wasn't the last one. But I didn't like the fact that it wasn't favored nations and that they were paying him more than he was paying us. And I was really mad that my lawyer from the fancy law firm was able to not get me a dollar more. And this guy without a lawyer got more money. So anyway, to make a long story short, Bravo gave us, you know, all $7,500 for the season, and the rest is history. Ellie, what were you saying?

Oh, that at the time it wasn't called the Real Housewives. So it wasn't like we could look to anything else. There was no benchmark. Right. There was no benchmark. It was like The Bachelor, and we had other bacheloretts or bachelors to look at. There's no like history. Okay.

So here we had Ramona singer on. This was her comment, and I got to hear your response to what she said. Here we go. Here you go. Ready? Yeah. I love my Ramana. I did the show.

Then this is the worst part. Jill Zarin and the other people were so desperate to do the show. They agreed to do all six episodes for only $7,500. So what's your take on that? Because she was saying that she was the hard nose. She was the one negotiating. All you guys were like, we don't care. We'll do it for nothing.

It's so funny because, well, first of all, it's a long time ago, so it's hard to remember the details. But I will tell you this, she, we were not all together. We were all individuals. So she could have, if she's so smart and so brilliant, who told her, she couldn't get more than $7,500. I wasn't negotiating for her. That's a good point. What does she have to do with me?

She should have gotten her $100,000. Yeah, yeah. If she was so not desperate, why'd she do it for $7,500 since she wasn't. And by the way, I wasn't desperate to do the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For what, money? Was I desperate to do it for money? Obviously not.

Right. It costs me, I'm the one who rented a private plane and didn't get it for free. A lot of times these private planes are tradeouts and blah, blah, blah. Now, now it's the deal. different world. I paid for everything. So, you know, that season probably cost me $30,000. Yeah, yeah. Plus hair and makeup and all that, you know, it wasn't covered. It still isn't covered. So I don't know what she's talking about because she could blame me. First of all, it's not me. It was the lawyer. And she knows who I'm talking about. I'm not going to name names.

But Simon is the one who got $7,500. We got $5,000. So if she was so good, why didn't she go get more? Let's call her on the phone. I have her number. And by the way, did you know she lives in my building? Oh, there we go. I'm going to stop my big, I'm in mustard shoes, and I'm going to go downstairs today, downstairs today. And I'm going to say Ramona. Remember when you said that on Trading Secrets? And by the way, you know, where have you been all these years? Because my understanding is that New York makes the least out of all the other shows.

Yeah, if you look online. If you're so good, I haven't been around. So, you know, don't blame me that you're not making the money. I love it. Now, why do you think that is so like you're the fan favorite? all the years you're on like you're the star everyone loves you why did it not work out or why did you discontinue or what was the you know it's so long ago and it's honestly so unimportant the reality is for me i've always been um i've always self-sabotaged myself i have i still do

to a certain extent i try not to but i do so i really believe that i was off the show um because i kind of self-sabotage myself and i did the right thing the fact not being on the show i think saved my marriage. Not that it was in trouble, but I felt that it was going in that direction, and that's why a lot of housewives get divorced. Yeah. And that's why I love that Kyle's married and, you know, a couple of the girls, and a couple, I can't even name them all on one hand of how many are still married and happy, you know, so many. Do you think it's because, like, the attention and fame just goes to a different direction? So, well, I think, I think, I think, I think it's 50-50. I think half of them go in knowing that they're not in a good situation and they

didn't escape. So they're trying to get on a show so they can get out of their marriage, have their own money, all that stuff. And then the other ones is, yes, fame goes to your head. Maybe it goes to one person's head more than the other. Sure. Doesn't give him the attention that he needs or they just have different, you know, goals. You know, and it really comes out when you're doing a show. Gotcha.

When you went season to season, though, did you start negotiating up as much as your pay? Like, did you negotiate, see the next season you were on? I'm the worst negotiator. Okay. And I always said I never did it for the money. And I didn't. Yeah. Now I would.

Now you would. Okay. Now I would. Lessons learned. to a certain extent. But back then, I really just did it to have fun, but I did it to promote my brands, Aaron Fabrics. Because I remember I was friends with Judith,

Judith Publisher. Regan. Regan, sorry. Judith Regan. Brilliant publisher, by the way. And I remember she said to me, you know, Jill, who cares about the money? Because you have a product to sell at the time it was Aaron Fabrics. She said, how much would you pay to have commercials nonstop running on Bravo?

Like pay for commercials? And I'm like, you're right. She goes, so who cares? Such a good point. And I remembered that and it carried it with me. So it was never me and money. It was never an issue. And I have enough.

Like, I've never been desperate. That's the thing. Like some of the other people on the show, they don't have significant others. They don't have their own independent wealth. And they need to work. Yeah. Interesting. Different perspective.

I'm lucky that way. It's a different perspective. I have more freedom of choices. Yeah. That is, it's so interesting to hear your take on that, too, which is different than obviously some of the others. but it's very interesting. Allie, your take, 14 to 18-ish age range,

you're part of this reality television show. When you look back on it, what was like one of the wildest things that you think about being on the show? I think back then we were really just living our own lives for ourselves and they followed us, but they definitely, I remember, they didn't put us in uncomfortable situations,

but they definitely, you know, when my mom wasn't around, like me and Bobby, they wanted us to, I don't know, give across a certain message and I feel like bad watching it back now. I feel like it's hard when someone's gone watching, you know, TV or a movie when that person's gone and they can't defend themselves or talk about it. It's kind of sad. I feel like I don't regret it, but it makes me sad watching and knowing that other people are learning about us for the first time and that's their impression of us. Like something 20 years ago of a fight or

a bad day or a bad mood and that lives on forever now when like you were just having a bad moment. Like, I was 14, a cranky, annoying kid with a stepdad who was much older, 20 years older than my mom, and I feel like we had our relationship, but it sucks now seeing it playing back, and it doesn't feel great. I think what Allison said is she's not proud of some of the things she might have said or done. I wouldn't do it again now those, you know, particular instances. And can't like, I mean, I'm sure she's spoken to him about it since, but not as a 29-year-old. Sure. And he's not here now to say she's sorry or to to say whatever she wants to say.

And I never really watched it then, so watching the first season back doesn't feel great because you can't really take it back or redo it or anything like that. Yeah. I mean, I think something that's so relatable, though, is anyone who's in the age of 14 to 18

has said things and had reactions in growing situations where if any of us were filmed at that age, we would all look back at the rest of the rest of her. You know what's so said? We're in such an unforgivable society now. I mean, a 14 or 15-year-old who says something that's inappropriate or whatever could be like canceled

for the rest of that. life. There's no forgiveness now. There's zero tolerance. Even if you're 14, zero tolerance. It's terrible. Yeah. I mean, well, that's a perfect transition because obviously you're, you have a new show coming out, comes out this week, right? Ultimate Girls Trip. Oh, yeah. Knowing what you know now about what you had just said and the difference in reality television from back then to today, did you have any hesitation in taking this path for this show because of things like that? Not this particular show because it's a one and done. Okay. You know, it had a beginning, middle, and end. And it was only a week of film. It was, it was. It

a week, and I liked the girls that we were filming with. So I was looking for a good time. Interesting. Okay. We're going to get into the show. Before we do, I got to touch on what you just said. You'd mention that it's such a sensitive place to be living today. Was there ever a point that, like, your career or you were in a canceled position that you

feel this strongly about it, or you just in general? Well, yeah, I got canceled for something for money, for money, Ramona, who you just brought up. And honestly, I don't think she said it knowing what would happen, but she definitely said it maliciously, we were at a Kodak party that I held to launch a new product of Kodaks and I was a brand spokesperson for them. And the irony is, is that my contract didn't require me to have anything on TV for them. Okay. I just was being nice and figured I'll just give them extra. Sure. Big mistake. Do what you paid for. Don't do more. Don't do less. There's your lesson. Yep. So I had a party on the show and Ramona was jealous, obviously, because it was, you know,

probably the first, I was probably the first housewife to have a big brand endorsement Kodak. And I was always the first with a lot of things. I was the first reality star that, you know, had an agent at CAA and Billston Gray at the same time manager, like that combo. I mean, I was. I was lucky and there was jealousy for sure. There's always jealousy when you have a cast of five. And Bravo doesn't help, by the way, with that jealousy. What do you play into it kind of?

No, no, no, no, no. meaning like even now, now I don't care. But when you have five or six or eight girls, only one can do certain things. So if the MTV Awards came up, they sent, in our show, they sent Dorinda and Taylor. Now, for me, I wouldn't have gone anyway because I'm a New Yorker, Tamara, sorry.

But I'm sure that Vicky and Brandi were a little bit envious that they weren't asked. And I'm not saying they were, I can't speak for them. I see. I'm just saying that that's an example of where Bravo, not on purpose, It's not not on purpose, but it is what it is. Or they'll say to you something.

I remember being told that I was going to do something, but please don't say anything to anyone because they didn't want everyone calling them saying, can I have it? Sure. Okay. Which is what would happen. And then the girls get mad at me that I didn't tell them and I got it. It's not my fault.

So it like it just creates things that, you know. Yeah, totally. I don't know if it happened in The Bachelor. I mean, there was so many of you and you all got different opportunities. Oh, I mean, it happens every day on social media. It happens in reality television. it happens on the bachelor. Like you're benchmarking against your peers

and you start to see the opportunity they have. NV sets in. Of course. Of course. And then it just becomes the nature of the reality. But you're at, so you're at this event, though. Okay, so I'm at this event.

And Ramona comes up to me and she says, why are you working with Kodak? They're so antiquated. Huh. Well, right then and there, I knew that I was going to get canceled. Not canceled in the traditional sense, though. Her contract was canceled. It was $300,000 on the table.

I did not get it. Because Ramona said that? Yes. Because they, and not only that, they aired it. They didn't have to air it. They aired it. And the irony is I always thought this was such a mistake. This is where, like, one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing.

Yeah. So, obviously, production left it in because it was dramatic and everything else. But business-wise on Bravo, Kodak was one of their biggest advertisers. I remember they were promoting this printer that they had, and they were promoting the Kodak books. Sure. The printable books. Yeah. And they were advertising.

They were spending gazillions on Bravo. Every time I turned on a Bravo show, it was a Kodak commercial. That's why they hired me. Like, they were engaged with Bravo and Bravo talent and the whole thing. And as soon as that happened and they put it in the show, Kodak canceled all their ads. Oh, 300,000 gone. No, no, for me. No, how much millions bravo lost a time.

Millions and millions. Fifteen million. I can't even imagine. So why the hell would they air that? Well, because one hand doesn't know the other. I don't really understand why. Interesting. They saw the show and didn't somebody say, hey, wait a minute, isn't Kodak?

Because I knew it. Kodak, a big advertiser. Do we really want to, over something stupid that doesn't benefit anyone? Do we want to air this? But that's, you know, and by the way, at the end of the day, she was right. And Kodak filed bankruptcy. Oh, yeah. We'll get in the recap, guys. So I'm just saying, you know, she was right.

They were antiquated, but they were trying to dig themselves out. But it wasn't nice to do to me. She knew that there'd be repercussions. I don't think she knew how much or what, but she was doing it to be mean. It wasn't doing it to help me. She could have said the opposite. Like, Jill, I'm so glad you're working with them. They could use someone like you.

Yeah. So, you know. In the recap, guys, we'll talk a little bit about why Kodak won bankrupt very briefly, just the business case behind it. It's wild. They are still traded today, but they're getting beat up pretty good. We'll get into that. But disposable cameras are having a comeback.

They are having a comeback. I don't know if the volume's high enough. But I'll tell you, the IP is worth a lot of money. And a friend of mine did a big deal with Kodak in China. IP's worth a ton. When you three, I'm just curious because I want to get a little tease on the new show, but 300K back then, what would you have to do for that? Because you said, do what you're paid to do.

Today, I could tell you, 300K could be like an appearance for posts, one podcast read. Well, I haven't been getting that. So can somebody please help me up with those, please? We're getting that. What did you back then? What do you do? Just curious, like, appearance? I mean, I was getting like then about $25,000 for a day rate, if you want to call it that.

To show up at a appearance. Well, so I went up to Codex headquarters up in Rochester. That's where I used to live. and I was in front of an audience of 2000. It was great, but, like, I kind of knew it was the beginning of the end. Okay. So it was, like, speaking stuff. You would do these little, okay.

It was around 2010. So social media, that's what I'm saying. Social media wasn't there. But that gives me an idea for, like, appearances, stuff like that. Okay. All right. Now, you got to tease. Now, Ellie, are you in Ultimate Girls?

Come up? You in this new show? I'm not. It is just the X, Y. It was just the X, yes. It was an opportunity, but it got canceled because I came on as a surprise. Okay. So, you say that?

Huh? Can you say that? Well, I think everyone knows I come on the show. I'm here today. Everybody knows. We're promoting the show. We're promoting the show. There it is.

Surprise. Surprise. I'm bad. But yeah, there was an opportunity, but it didn't happen because of the way I came on to the show, they didn't do any background of me. Like where, like, some of the girls, you're going to see some background of like them packing together to get to the thing and talking to the family. Oh, what's it going to be like this week?

You're going to miss me. So, Allie would have been in that. And we ended up, they canceled it because of the way I was coming in. It was a Jewish. holiday, it was Yom Kippur. Got it. So I couldn't go up with the girls the first day. And so what can people tease people a little bit?

Why they should tune in? What can they expect from the season? Well, I think the commercials that they've been airing is enough of a tease. I mean, even I, it's a must watch. Because just the, just is this one teaser that's on right now where Brandy says, and her favorite words are shut the fuck up. She just loves it. It's just, she loves it.

And she doesn't mean it literally. I do too. You love it too. I mean, we all love to say words. And they don't listen, you know, if you want to be abstinent, you can set, break the word apart and say, shut the fuck, you know, and be, it's an expression. Sure. And it's not meant to be literally shut the fuck up or mean. It's something she says like she'd be like just shut up.

Yeah, yeah, sure. But she likes to say shut the fuck up. But the girls, because of the condition that they were in, you know, were like, and the two of them, I saw the commercial. And I didn't see it. I was sitting next to them. Okay. So I didn't see the way the camera sees it on TV. looking at them, and they're both attacking Brandy at the said time.

What do you mean? Shut the fuck up. You shut the fuck up. And the two of them. And it's just, it's really, it's hysterical. Because what happens is the temperature goes all the way up and then it goes down. Yeah. And it gets heated up.

And then it goes down. It's a nice roller coaster. It is. When they came back to you to be on this show, were you surprised they came back or were you expecting this? I was surprised. You're surprised. Yeah.

Yeah. There are a lot of ex-wives and a lot of New York ex-wives. So. And what was the last time you had heard? from them before this? Well, I speak to Andy. Okay. I mean, we're friends.

I mean, you know, we've had, we've definitely had our ups and downs over the years. But, you know, there's nothing like having the time. You know, I know Andy now since 2001. Like, we know each other over 20 years. No, not 2001. Oh, sorry, not 2001. 2005. Okay.

So it's still almost 20 years. Yeah. Okay. It's, it's, I knew Andy when he was sitting in an office at NBC as a top TV executive. Look at him now. Is Andy the one that called? Andy was the one who hired me for sure I spoke to Andy in the beginning oh yes and Andy did call me Andy called you he did all right negotiations for this show a lot different

than the other show or is it the same thing definitely can't talk about it I will get shot okay we don't want you to get shot we're not going to talk about that I will get fired again we don't well I don't want to be involved with that reasoning so we'll move on from that were there any hesitations for you to do this show round two how about that um to go back well there's always a little bit of a hesitation. They knew that we're driving you to maybe say no. Yeah, I mean, there's always a hesitation.

Yeah, I didn't say, I don't think, did I say yes right away? I might have. I don't know. I don't think so. I think we talked about it. It was a discussion. Yeah. I don't know.

I mean, I was definitely excited because it was, um, the only thing was to be honest, the first trip was to Turks and Caicos. Okay. So I don't want to say I wasn't excited to go to Bluestone Manor or to, to the Berkshires. I love the Berkshires. And in fact, I had just, um, been there two weeks prior to, um, Miraval for a week with my boyfriend and my girlfriend. Not a girlfriend, girlfriend, but, you know, we went up there.

And actually, I was supposed to have dinner with Dorinda because I had told her I was right down the block from her. I love the Berkshires in the fall. And that's why I went. But I would have liked to, you know, I didn't know what other shows they would be doing in the future. Okay. If they'd be going to more exotic locations. So I kind of loved the trips when we went to Morocco. Okay.

You know, I like to go to places I've never been to. Sure, sure. And, you know, to be fair, going to someone's home, it's like it's their show, it's their home, it's them. And I'm just part of, I'm just a guest on that show in their home where like when they went to Turks and Caicos, it was every man for himself, all equal footing, except fighting over who gets the best room. Pretty much everybody is, you know what I mean? Like, no one could get thrown out of the house. Got it. It's just different rules of the game.

that kind of thing. And I would have liked to have gone to Europe or anywhere. But I didn't know. And that was a big decision for me. Do I take, is it a bird in the hand? And this is a business question. Is it a bird in the hand? Or do you wait for better?

I think take it. And I did. So you took it. Do you think this is like the relaunch of Jill into Bravo? Like do you think we can expect this even more from you after this show? Honestly, I don't. I think this was a one and done. Really?

Yeah. Would you like this? there to be a longer relaunch? I don't know. I don't know. I have very big, big, big, big reservations. I have a really good life. I want to play tennis every.

I say to Allie, I don't want to work anymore. Every day. Every day she tells me. Every day. I just want to, you know, live the good life. I worked my whole life for. Yeah. You know, what am I waiting for?

Understood. All right. I'm going to Europe this summer. We're chartering, I'm hoping to charter a boat. Yep. Ali doesn't know about that part yet. Oh, surprise. Surprise, surprise.

But I'm planning a, you know, a romantic getaway to Europe and to play tennis to go to tennis camp and Allie's going. I just, you know, my parents are in Florida. I have a home there. I'm closing on a new one in a few weeks and I'm going to renovate it. That's going to take a year. So I'm going to have to be there a lot. I just, you know, I have a lot on my plate.

And, you know, I don't know. I don't think there's anything more you're going to get out of me that you haven't seen already. So I'm really happy. My brand, that's what I care about. I care about my rugs. I have Jill Zaron Rugs. In fact, you're going to see Jill Zeran.

outdoor rugs at Bluestone Manor, my beautiful green outdoor rug, which I hope people are going to love. And I have indoor rugs. I have wool rugs now. We have washable rugs coming. We have a crystal manifestation line, which I just showed you. This is the coolest candle, by the way. It's a candle and it has crystals in it. And there's a whole real crystals. Caitlin would be obsessed with this. And there's a process of what you do to actually manifest. And this is the, so this is being sold under the Jill and Alley brand, though. Correct. On Jillenallie.com. And we have it on Jillsarren.com as well. Okay. But they're $45, and if you look at any other candle for $45, you're not getting any crystals.

And you're not getting it this big and heavy and quality. And I open the box, it smells unbelievable. I'm going to get to Jillianally.com after this question, this question right here, you said it. I got to ask charter a boat. How much is chartering a boat cost? A lot. Depends on the boat. Okay.

Really, it depends on the size of the boat. It depends on the crew. If you're going to have no crew, if you're going to have crew yourself, or you're going to have 25 people. Fun fact, my mom is a boat captain. I am the captain. We own three boats. She is a boater. She loves boats.

So she knows a lot. If you want a charter, a really nice boat, seven people are going to be there. You need a team of at least five. You're going to do it for a week. What does that cost? Well, the best is when you're invited as a guest. And in this case, for the summer, I'm being invited as a guest. Okay, nice.

But you were chartering 150 foot. Like a hypothetical. I just have no idea. In the south of France, in the summer, you're looking at 200,000. 200,000. Probably all in maybe. Interesting. Okay.

Unless you do below deck, below deck, then you might get a better deal. But you still pay. You still pay. You still pay. You still pay. You know what?

We were offered below deck, but they wanted $45,000. It included your airfare. It was only for two nights and three days. It's like boom and out, in and out. Why would I want to do that? And pay.

So I didn't do that, although maybe I would now. I actually reached out to Captain Sandy to see where the boats are this summer. That's hilarious. But it turns out that my friend's friend is literally today taking delivery of a mega yacht in Monocon.

and invited her and any friend she wants to bring the summer. That's what that's the answer right there. I have a trip plant to Capri, but I may cancel that in lieu of this. Go on that. So my point is, is like, that's what I'm looking at. What do I want to work for? Like, life is good right now. Why even bother that?

Yeah, and to bring on negative energy and all that crap. You don't need the stress. I don't, and I said this a year ago that my time has passed, and I've passed the baton, and they have literally now recast New York, and they are passing the entire baton to a new cast of younger. fabulous women, fabulous, younger, diverse women. That's like the description of what they're looking for, who are friends. And I'm good.

All right. My life is in a great place. I just don't see. We're very busy. Well, very busy. We're going to see more Jill on the next show. I want to get into Jill and Allie real quick. You made a comment, Allie.

You said plus tip. What do you, I'm just curious, 200,000. What do you tip someone that works on a boat like that? Is that like 20%. 20%. Damn. That can add up. Okay.

So let's say the boat charges for 100,000. You have to pay provisioning, fuel, and tip. So you can literally add at least half. So if it's $100,000, you're going to pay another $50. It's more expensive than a private jet, right? Oh, yeah. But a private jet's only two hours or three hours. This is a week.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's okay. Well said. Good point. All right. Jill and Ellie, you guys have this website. You have candles, handbags, apparel. This is Candle is on there and on Jill's site.

Check it out apparel. You guys started this business not too long ago. It's absolutely blowing up. One of the interesting things you said when we sat down was that, you haven't used influencer money, like you haven't spent money on influencers, but you'll send product. And you've seen some influencers do better than others. What have you seen from a business perspective when you're using social media to get some of these things sold? Well, it's been a wild ride. I think we leverage our social media to actually get into wholesalers to meet our minimums

to then be able to do our e-com. Because in a daily basis, we'll end up selling more wholesale and we will e-com between the boutiques and major retailers. And that enables us to have a really nice website and social media presence. So we focus on kind of like upper funnel with social media. So spreading brand awareness, getting our name out there. But the actual sales honestly comes more from wholesale. Got it. So more from wholesale.

But you've used people from The Bachelor, right, to sell some of this and they do well? Yeah, it's funny. And that's why I think we're scared about actually paying money because we don't know, right? You don't know what's going to hit or not. and ironically, over the past two years since we started, we'll end up getting the most traffic and most conversion from Bachelor stars. Jeff Lewis. I would say reality stars,

more than actual traditional fashion influencers. Interesting. Okay. Must be back to engagement. No, but Housewives really don't do anything for us. Housewives don't. No, no. Housewives don't.

But the Bachelor does. But people from Bachelor and stuff. That's what I'm saying. It depends on what. what I'm trying to work on now is generating more UGC so getting people to actually love our candles, post about them, talk about them, user generated content. So like someone like me, lighting a candle, showing you the crystal,

all that stuff versus like a picture saying, thanks Jill and Ali, I got this candle, which is what you get when you pay someone, but we're also a celebrity brand and we help them by promoting them too. So it's kind of like a give and take. Right, because I'll be post it. Right, but it shows us. I repost it and I've got a million dollars.

So then you're putting them up. We're a very small company. It's like four of us. Okay. Which is why it's easier at the end of the day to do wholesale and focus on that in terms of sales and growth. But we're definitely interested in growing our social base. Also, I'm sure you talk about this too, like the iOS updates. It's been really hard for us with Facebook and Instagram ads.

Yeah. So we're doing like tens of thousands a month on ads and we had to scale all the way back because we weren't seeing the ROI at all. Interesting. Now, do you guys run this company together? Yes. Yes. Okay. We're partners.

And do you run into any, like, from a mother-daughter perspective, managing a business, this is the first we've had on the podcast. Have there been any, like, big challenges with that? Every day. Every day. And what is like conflict resolution? Like, what do you guys do to get on the same page? Gary.

Gary. He's not here today. Gary. Gary's the best. Gary's our conflict resolution. And he loves Allie to death. Like even yesterday, we did a pop-up shop downtown and there was some candles that were left over that had to get picked up. And Ali said, oh, I'm on my way downtown. I'm going to pick them up.

And they're heavy, by the way, right? Imagine five boxes. These are two and a half pounds each. Get one of these things. You know what I mean? You could do like weights. Exactly. They're really heavy.

Imagine a box of 24 of those. So, and little Ali can't lift them. So I said to Gary, oh, I said to Alie, why don't you ask Gary to take you down? Now, if she asked me, she knows the answer. Absolutely not. I am not getting in my car at five o'clock on the upper side to go all the way down to the East Village, pick them up, take you home and then go home. That's a two-hour round trip.

She asked, she said, I'm taking Uber. I said, ask Gary. Not even a question. Not even a question. It just happens. No, he says, of course I'll do it. Like, he's so good. He loves her.

But we're doing our first gift shows this summer. So we're going to be in Atlanta, Vegas. We just signed on. It's very exciting. Right. A selling organization. Okay. Which had, they have 10 reps around the country.

They show it the major shows. And it's a big investment for me. I self-fund this company. Okay. I do not have investors because I really didn't want to answer to anybody. But before that, it was us. I got into Airy, Francescas, Macy's, T.J. Max. How did you get into those stores?

All sex, a fifth. Relationships, just connections. That's why I think it's important to have a beautiful social media page. Francesca's and Ari found us. Okay. Advice to, I'm making the name up. Let's say there's Susan. She lives in Ohio.

She's got a cool product. She's hearing you say this. What advice would you have for her to get her product into like one of those big ones? You go to 401 operator? Do you just crush your social game? I think they're just people behind a computer screen and everyone's at home right now. So LinkedIn, Instagram, like literally, even for press, like I saw who was writing your 49, who's writing these BuzzFeed articles, look them up, saw their Instagram, DM them.

I love that. Like, everyone's just a person. So these buyers are just people waiting to be reached out to. They want to find the next big, small business that's going to be great in their store. So it helps them too. I love that advice. Like you can, like you said, just look who's writing this article. That's a person.

You reach out to them. Give them an idea. Get ahead of what's next. They're all on their phone, they're all on TikTok, they're all on LinkedIn, they're all on Instagram. And everyone's looking for the next big thing that's going to make them look up. You know, it's interesting about press, they need you as much as you need that. Exactly. They need content.

And there's so much competition in the content world because everybody's a podcaster, everybody's an influencer, everybody's a writer. And the internet is endless, unlimited infinity pages. It's not like 29 pages and they have to fit it in. So, you know, everybody's looking for content. So we provide content. And this week was really, and this is where the, show does help. You see, this is where, you know, from a business point of view, do you do the show to help your business? So, sure, I can get a lot of stuff without having the show,

which I've done. But this week, I have a full page. What's in my bag? What is it? Something in Us Weekly. And then People Magazine, you know, she's back. I mean, they love that. You can pitch all that. And that happens when I get back on television. I love it. So the business things I don't need to be on TV for. Like I can pitch Forbes and do all those stories. we just did a mother-daughter story for Mother's Day had nothing to do with the show of the top mother-daughter duos and new businesses. We do have a goal, though.

What's here? It's my last year in my 20s. So Forbes 30 under 30 is my goal. That's the only goal that I have. Forbes 30 under 30. Well, let's start with this question then. Is this a profitable business? Very profitable.

It is profitable. So you've got the full return on your investment back. I'm investing still. So in other words, the markups there and on a business plan, it's all there. It's just I'm self-funding. So I have to pay for and buy my merchandise. Sure.

So you're not using any things. So let's say if I'm buying something right now, it's going to ship in 90 days. It'll take a month to get here. So I'll get it in four months. By the time I ticket it and I get it out the door, let's say it's another month. Now you're five months. I ship it. They want 90 days term, sometimes 60.

So I won't get paid. So if I buy $100,000 with the merchandise, I won't get my money for nine months. So how am I making paywall, advertising, insurance? rent. I have two warehouses, one in Connecticut that does our stores and one for e-com in New Jersey. You know, it's complicated and it's expensive. So you have a limited, what's the word? You have a minimum. Supply capital. You're not. You have your nut every month that you know you have to come up with where it's $50,000, $100,000. That covers your not. And then you may not get paid for nine months. So I could be in the whole half a million

a million dollars, knowing that in nine months, it's coming back and more. But then when it comes back, I'm reinvesting it to grow. Yeah. So if I bought 100,000 candles this year, I want to buy $200,000 next year. So I'm still not going to make money. Yes. Still not going to make money. This is like the beauty, the crux of cash flow, right?

So because you're profitable, but from a cash flow perspective, it's cash intensive. Well, there's right. There's, you know, on Quicken or however you do your books, you know, you have a cash. What do they call it? Yeah, P&L out. Cash or, what's the other one called? The opposite. Debits and credits?

No, no, no, no. Two ways to look at your books. One is on cash and one is on accrual. On a cash basis, you said, accrual or cash basis, yes. So on a cash, you can be broke. Yeah, that makes sense. How much have you, can you say how much you've invested into the company so far? We've, you know, with the masks and everything else, millions.

Millions. 10 million? 20 million. I mean. Forbes 30 under 30. 30. What's your title with this company? Millions. What's my title?

Your title, right now, let's make you CEO. Co-founder. CEO and co-founder. How about that? Yeah. She is everything. We do everything. We do everything. And the hardest thing is, you know, hiring the right people. And sometimes you have to make hard decisions and let people go. And that's the hardest thing, which Allison's had to do as well. Teach myself Shopify, teach myself everything. Okay.

That's the other thing. We believe that you have to learn. It's like owning a restaurant. I believe if you own a restaurant, you should be able to cook. You have to be the chef, but if the chef doesn't show up, you have to be able to put out food. That's my opinion. That's not necessarily what the reality is. I believe that Allison should be able to do every job in the company, even though she doesn't have to do every job in the company in case, you know, somebody quits or whatever. So she knows how to do Shopify, the ads, everything. We do most of them.

I love it. I got just a couple more questions. I'm going to wrap up here in a minute. But if someone comes, I'm going to go to you first, Jill. You're going to be the interview question. You are going to be the raised question. So someone comes to you, Jill, and they're interviewing with you. So they're listening to this.

And they have an interview with Jill Zaire to be on one of your companies. What is something someone should do in an interview to impress you? What one interview tip do you have? They should have looked at my website and know about the company and maybe even come up with something that they think I could do better. I love that. Give me some advice. But if you come and bring your resume, if you come to the interview, don't expect me to have your resume printed. Yeah.

Hand it to me. Because I'll interview 100 people for a job because it's that important. What you find is when you hire someone, it's like a marriage, especially in my case because we work in my home. And, you know, they're privy to all my life, my real life, what's going on in my life, everything. You know, they see everything going on. So trust is a big factor.

I'll tell you one thing. Don't come to an interview and tell me that you, should you say it? Sure. Go, you say it. Okay. Someone that interviewed for us talked about their current employer in a very, bad light and was basically gossiping to us. Gotcha. Yeah. Because if you're doing that, you'll just do it.

What was the next step that they said? They sent one of the things that happened to Dumois. They said what? One of the things that happened with their employer, they sent in to Dumas. And she's like gossip about that. Telling us that as people that could be on Dumont, too. My advice would be, don't tell your future employer that you've ratted your previous employer out. To the press. Yes. Especially people that are in the press. Oh my God. That should be 101. Jill, one thing rapid fire, someone gives you the resume. What's the first thing you're looking for?

Tell me what you learned when you went to school. Boom. All right. Someone's asking you for a raise. They work for you. They want to raise. What is something that will allow you to actually think about giving them a raise? What is something they could do to pitch you, Allie, that you will leave the meeting saying,

like, I really need to think about that. That was a good pitch. We've had that a few times this year. And I think it's really. taking more responsibility, but not only saying it, but doing it. Because you can say whatever you want to say, but then actually showing that you're taking on that ownership before you ask for the raise, I think is important.

So proving yourself. If you come to the table, show exactly the value you've given to me before you start asking for something to return. Because you ask for it and you say, I'm going to do this. I don't know if I believe you as much until you actually do it. I love it. Okay, I have one last question for each you. Then we're going to get your trading secret.

Trading secret. Every guest comes on and gives it. It's your financial tip, your career tips, something someone can't learn in a classroom, You can't find them. The textbook can't Google. So we'll end with that. But before we do, the first question is going to be for you, Jill.

What is one question about the TV world, either housewives or your new show, that you're not often asked that you wish you were asked? Oh, would Bravo, knowing how what happened after season four when they let go of the four housewives out of seven, it was the number one highest rated season in the history. history of housewives is what it says on Wikipedia season four would they knowing that would they have done uh if they could do it over again would they have done it you know would they do it again or would they you know would they still fire the four knowing what they know or would they not and what would they have done differently interesting and if they were asked that what do you

do you think they would say they would have done differently depends on who you ask what do you think i mean i think if someone's being honest they would have to say yes of course we would It was the number one rated show and we killed the show and it took years for it to recover and it never really recovered. Seems like the no-brainer. Yeah, I mean, but I don't know if they would say that. Interesting. So you asked me like a hypothetical. I'm like, sure, I wouldn't want to know that question.

That would be interesting. All right. I agree with you. I mean, I think the numbers show the answer or what it should be at least. We'll see, you know, who knows. Allie, what is one question that you wish you were asked about being the daughter of a real housewife of New York that you rarely are asked? I don't know. I feel like I'm not usually asked.

too much, I guess if I would ever be on a show, maybe. And would you? I don't get asked. When I was younger, I was very scared of reality TV. I was scared about getting into college, then I was scared about getting a job after college. I remember there were articles written that we had to get taken down when, like, websites were like kind of chasing after people.

And now that was applying to college? It was bad. Oh, my God. I had to get it down. It brought something very nasty. Oh, geez. And they're like more gossipy sites. It's now everything's on TikTok, so it doesn't matter.

You can't really control it. Yeah. But I was always very scared and embarrassed, and I feel like now everyone's their own boss, everyone's influencer. You don't have to report to anyone anymore if you don't want to. We never have to have a boss again. So I feel like for those reasons, I don't have to be scared about going back to TV,

but I don't necessarily need it because we have our own platform as well. Okay, I have one last question. I have one last question. I have one last question, then training secrets. So you had mentioned before that you're motivated to be Forbes 30 under 30, 30, right? You own your own business with your mom. You're doing very well. Coming from, and this is an assumption, but assuming you're coming from a family that has some material wealth, does that, like, are you at all motivated by money in any capacity, or is it other things? Like, what drives

your career ambition for Allie? I'll say definitely motivated by money and making my own money. My mom has... No shame in that game. Hell yeah. Yeah, I would say my mom's portfolio was actually very diverse, and a lot of it's from real estate, commercial real estate. Right. So I think it's very important to have a very diverse portfolio and getting incomes from different revenue streams, especially now with the stock market, like you can't have all your money in one basket, all your eggs in one basket. So I think looking outside the box and not just relying on, even for brand deals, even

one company, because who knows it will happen like Kodak. Yeah. We thought we were set for at least a few years. Sure. That was gone. Gone. So you never know. Even Housewives, reality, TV, anything.

I think it's important to have many. many different sources of income and to be very self-motivated. I love it. Great answer. All right. We've talked business. We've talked money negotiating, networking tips, business tips. We've hit it all.

We just got to end with Jill and Allie's trading secret. Who wants to go first? I have so many. I wrote a book about it. I can start. Okay. I would say life is very long. And if you feel stuck in a job or career, there's always time to change.

My mom was the president of Goldtoe. She was in men's socks and underwear. She's in many, many careers. And I feel like we're even doing a new career now. We started a business two years ago when you were 55. And I feel like my life has even been long. I've worked in art and advertising, started my own company, and I'm not even 30.

So I don't know what's ahead, but I don't think you're ever stuck in one job or career. You can always go back to school, take class online, learn from a mentor. Life is very long. I love that one. I have a simple one. Buy low, sell high.

There we go. How's that tip for the day? One more from grandpa. Okay. Always, what grandpa said, never spend more than what you have. A rich man never spends more than they have. In other words, like, if you spend, you'll always be rich. You'll always be rich if you spend less than you have.

That's a good one. And it doesn't matter how much that is. But you'll always be rich. If you spend, I love that. That is a good one. The only follow-up, Jill, is if you said buy low, sell high right now, everything is getting crushed. Is this when you buy? You bet.

I love it. I as much. Let's put this way. If you liked Amazon three months ago, you're going to love it now because it's on sale for 40% off. And I love a sale. There you go.

We're going to end with that. Jill and Allie, thank you guys so much for joining us. What an unbelievable episode of Trading Secrets. Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. Awesome. Ding, ding, ding.

We are closing in the bell with the one and only the David Ardoin on the Jill Zerrin. and Allie Shapiro episode, we got another Real House of New York on the podcast. And you got to love when you've only had two Real Housewives on the podcast. And they've chirped each other and one another on each of their episodes. I know the curious Canadians chomping at the bit to get in the game. David, what do you got for me, brother?

I just love a little bit of juicy gossip. So when you were getting the two Trading Secrets guests from the Real Housewives series on trade in some secrets that they said about one another. You got live recordings. You're behind the scenes, giving them access. We all know here that I wanted to be on a soap opera. I felt like I was like on cast, on stage for one right there. So definitely loved that part of the episode.

I feel like that was a very producer move of me to have that clipped up, ready to go, get Jill's reaction. I will tell you this, though. Like, honestly, I was a little, like, that room's a little tight. You never know. you know, the housewives have big personalities. I was a little nervous bringing that clip out, like what Jill's reaction was going to be. And it was better than I anticipated.

Oh, I didn't really connect the dots when she was on. And then when you brought the clip out, I was like, oh, where is he going with this? Oh, my God. Legitably the only person that Ramona calls out was Jill. And I was like, this could get good. I must say, I know you recorded that one in person. The audio was crisp.

And it was, you know, that part of it was really, really good. I know a lot of people in our reviews have talked about the audio. So in person, I know I wish we could do all of them in person. But overall, I texted you right after I listened. I was like, she is an entertaining podcast personality. She's intense. But I thought it was really good. What did you think about the in person experience with her? Yes. I'm so glad you brought that up. We are going to be working really hard to do every podcast in person because the video is better and the audio is 10 times better. And we hear you guys. And we know you've given us some audio feedback. We appreciate all those

five stars with the feedback. The five stars help. And we're listening to the feedback. So we're going to continue to do more and more and more of this in person. And actually, David and I later this week will be together in person, doing more recap. So just know that's coming. All right, David, glad to hear your reaction. Love that we called her out. We got Ramona and Jill battling. Really enjoyed Jill and Allie's presence in general, even before the podcast and after

and, of course, during. What were some other takeaways you had? Well, I know you said you wanted to talk about Kodak. When she said Rochester, New York, I don't know if people know. that's where I live. A little taste of home there. So you want to talk about how they went brain corrupt, a little bit about their story.

But first, she said she got in trouble from a castmate for doing an ad for Kodak and saying, why are you doing an ad for Kodak? They're antiquated. What the fuck does antiquated me? And I feel like I should know that,

but I don't. Wait, seriously? Do you not know it? I have no clue. I don't think I've ever heard of what antiquated in my life. Hang on now I'm playing. This is why I love the Curious Canadian and I love the recap.

All right now, if I give you a hundred bucks, if you're correct, then you have to guess what antiquated means. What do you think the answer is? Well, I have to go off the example saying what codec is so antiquated. I'm going to think, like, what does antiquated mean? Struggling business? I don't know, man. Honestly, usually I ask these and I feel like I know them, but some people at home might not.

I have zero clue. Okay. So you're not getting 100 bucks. Antiquated. Think like antique, old school, old fashion. Like, it's out of the game. It's outdated. Like, think about that. So antiquated. It's old. It's antiquated. Like a CD player, VHS, it's antiquated. So I thought that was wild that she lost that deal. Here's a fun fact about Kodak. So Kodak, for anybody that doesn't know, it used to be like, think about how big of a company Apple is today or Facebook or Google. That was Kodak in like the 70s, 80s, 90s, right? And at one point, Kodak's market cap, codex, codex market cap. Let me look this up. Okay, I just want to say, 1994, Kodak's market cap topped $20 billion. That is the share price times the total shares outstanding. That's what market cap equals. It was over $20 billion. Today, if I go look it up right now, I'm looking it up. It's trading today at $5.52 a share. The market cap is $435 million. 400. So we're

talking two and a half percent of what the company was just 25 years ago or so. So talk about a crazy story and not staying up with the times and the impact. They didn't change at the speed of technology. And boy, did they feel it. And that story was hilarious. And now, David, you know what antiquated means. I do. And now it makes sense. I think because even she said like, oh, yeah, no, they're doing the digital photo or the photo frames with like the pictures I go And I'm like, I don't know if I ever even saw one of those in a household. So it makes sense. Rochester, a little curse.

They had Kodak and Xerox, two massive, massive companies, I want to say in the 70s, 80s, 90s that I know they had hundreds of thousands of people employed at them. Massive campuses. When I tell you campuses, it takes you minutes to drive through each one of these, they're abandoned. They're just, they're not. And didn't, wasn't Kodak in the news last year for some shady stuff when their stock went from like $2 to $50 to like $6? in a matter of 24 hours, and the CEO made a ton of money illegally? Yeah, so there was some definitely insider trading going on.

There's some stuff with Trump considering utilizing Codex infrastructure for the vaccine and other things like that for the pandemic. The stock went mad up to like 40 bucks a share. Now it's back down to five. So there was some stuff there. And I think that's interesting information, though, David, like, guys, the city of Rochester, it's funny. There are these massive, like, mansions on this, like, Main Street area.

It's like a village area, and they're like these beautiful old school, beautiful mansions. And like David said, those all got abandoned. And now those mansions have turned into apartment units where like 15 people will live. Places that I've lived, in a lot of my 20s, well, I lived in Rochester. And it's so interesting to go back to a city like that who had, you know, who had the biggest businesses in the world and to see how the city is like, of course, done just fine, given the rebound, but it's totally different infrastructure. David, tell me more. Jill Zarin,

Ali Shapiro, what else are you thinking? Well, I thought it was pretty interesting. This is not, this isn't really relevant to the episode, but like something

that I raised my eyebrows. You know the show Below Deck? I can't believe that people pay $45,000 to rent the boat out for two nights just to be on TV.

It's so crazy. Like, we have so many reality stars that come on here and we bitch and complain about like not getting paid on the show. And then we have, you go to that next echelon of like these real housewives where they're all like super loaded

and they're just like we don't want to be paid we just want to be on the show and then you go to the next echelon where you're paying 45k to be on below deck like you got to be kidding me and most of those people who go on below deck aren't famous so like i maybe get it if you're trying to like if you're famous or you're trying you're and you want to be seen for more tv time to kind of grow or extend or be a different avenue to get some spotly most of these people are just just going on vacation and chartering these boats so they can maybe get on TV. Yeah, like if you're Neil Lane, I get why you'd spend 45K to be on The Bachelor. But just like you said, your average date person going on below deck for 45K, what are you

getting out of it? And to say, she said, if you rent a charter bow for 100K between tip and alcohol, it's half that. So it's 150. So really you're paying, you know, close to 65K to be on TV for two nights and maybe not get any airtime or words in. I know what that's like. when I was on The Bachelor for my three minutes,

I didn't get one word in, but at least I got paid by The Bachelor. How much did they pay you? I got a check still in my room. It's like $146. It says, Bachelor season, uh,

uh, wait a second. Yeah. It's going to be another wild David fact. Okay, so you got paid $146 to go on the show. Yeah. There's like,

oh yeah. Is it like a little guest fee or something or like they pay for expenses? Well, they paid for my expenses. They paid for my flights in the hotel. And then I got a check in the mail like three weeks later. And it says,

Bachelor season 13 and it was like 146 bucks and I was like this is I'm never cashed it and then I just kept the check okay so you still have the check 100% still have the check

it's hilarious okay so guys what we're gonna do is go to trading secrets on Instagram go to trading secrets Facebook group David and I are going to do a segment where we showcase the check and talk a little bit about his experience on season 14 episode 6

zero words two minutes of air time and we got the check to prove it so go follow us on Instagram, Trading Secrets Podcasts. Go follow us on the Facebook group, Trading Secrets Facebook group. And we will have some more content about the check that David got.

I didn't even know that. I'm glad you cash it. I feel like you're going to tell me you didn't cash, and I was going to slap you in the head. Yeah, no, mobile deposit. I got to transition and talk about Allison a bit here. I mean, Joe was a lecture. She kind of took over the first half of the episode

as you guys talked about the Real Housewives. It was really cool because she's younger. Obviously, the daughter, been around money and fame a little bit for her whole life. But as soon as you started talking the business side of things, you know, the candle company and everything else, she perked up, her energy perked up, she got super motivated.

I want your take on this question. She said that she really wants to be on the Forbes 30 under 30 list. You've talked a lot about people being able to buy magazine covers and buy their way on lists. Do you think it's possible to buy her way on the Forbes 30 under 30 list? Do I even thought? You can buy yourself on the Forbes 30 under 30 list, my answer is going to be yes. It's going to be yes.

Wow. It's going to be yes. And here's why. Here's why I think that. Because even in the small days, like in the little cities like Rochester and York when I was there, I remember that like the 30 under 30 and the 40 under 40, there were certain slots for certain companies that did advertising with the papers that did those promotions. And then I started doing more research on like New York 40 under 40 under 30 under 30.

Then there are larger cities with different 30 under 30s. They're larger institutions. And it is correlated to your spend and towards the people that you know that are on the boards and that have the power. So like all the other things, like the fake paparazzi, like everything else, you can buy your way on to Forbes 30 under 30. I mean, nothing should surprise us these days. One thing too, I thought it was interesting. She talked a lot about when she was applying for college, a lot of the kind of like paparazzi advertising gossip magazines articles that had been written

kind of made it hard for her to get into college in some of these applications. Do you think when you have money like that, especially now that the college scandal, Netflix on documentary on Netflix has been out, do you think it's harder for families like that to buy their way into a college or like buy their way into an MBA program or just buy the piece of paper in general? what's your take on that? I talk about this a little bit in the book.

You know that guy from that documentary? If you haven't seen it, guys, go check it out. That guy still has not served any time. I mean, a lot of the parents have certain type for the bribery and stuff. He still hasn't served any time. And yes, you can definitely still get your way. They call it, there used to be the front door

that's doing it legitimate. It used to be the back door. And now there's the side door. And the side door is paying your way through. But not paying your way through like the back door where you have to buy the gymnasium for $50 million. that still exists 100%. And I even have it like on my Instagram overpriced MBA. Okay. Okay, David, here's, this is a deal I actually did and got this week. And one of the reasons I got the deal is because of my extreme passion for overpriced education. And it's called invited MBA. And I just did the deal on Trading Secrets page. I just did the deal on my Instagram. It's invited MBA.com because it does the opposite of what we're talking about. Right. So my MBA, was a two and a half year program. Most MBAs are two-year programs. And so for me, my MBA cost

over $100,000, two and a half years of my time. And so one of my favorite ads I did was with invited MBA.com and because it is a 12-week program. It's a 12-week mini MBA. So it's an accelerated solution that really like will help with upskilling any type of business acumen you might need. and there's over 900 alumni that are at big, big companies that have gone through this. So, like, there's some companies that have had people go through invited MBA from GE, Southwest Airlines and Coca-Cola, stuff like that. So to your point, MBAs are expensive. People are still paying their way to get into MBAs.

Not everybody can afford MBAs, but that was the one product I did just recently promote was the invited MBA. It's that 12-week mini MBA. and what I was promoting when I did it is that you can get a $200 tuition credit by just mentioning trading secrets when you're going through the process of application or just Jason Tartick because I did it on my personal Instagram page. That's invited MBA.com. But yeah, my whole thing, David, is that you can still pay your way into the big colleges

and my whole thing, just like it says on LinkedIn, is that my MBA was overpriced and so are majority of colleges, undergrads and masters and just be smart. And we should do a whole podcast on just that topic. I always thought I was going to get my MBA. It was like just part of the path. Okay, that's another thing I didn't know. Did you really?

Always thought I was going to get it. But it was probably because I didn't know what else I was going to do with my life. So it was just like another like, yeah, I'm just going to get it. And then all these doors are going to open up. But if I had to now, I mean, I've heard your horror stories of the $100,000 in the two years to do a 12-week mini-course online. That has to be the way to go nowadays. No-brainer. Did you study business in undergrad? Yeah, I said, I studied a big business guy. Yeah, 3.4. How'd you get your way through that? Wow. I made some deals. I made some deals. Drug deal and tests. Yeah, right? I joke. That's another

thing. I joke around in the book. I don't joke around real. Like, people would like pass tests around like it was like drug deals. Like, oh, give you the bio test for the business law test. I mean, it was unbelievable business law business law jennessee the biggest joke the guy had for 30 years the guy had the same test over it over the same test same question you want to talk about a genius i'm going to take a quick time out here that guy knew his test his whole course was a joke do you know why he did it he for the textbook the textbook yeah the text book he made the text book he was like 500 bucks he was the author right he was the author and all he did you had to buy the textbook and and you had to show up to the midterm and the final,

and the test hadn't changed in like 30 years. So basically, it's just hilarious. Everyone in the world took business law. And then, David, do you? Okay, here's what remember about the textbook, too. It was interactive. So you would have to write about the cases, right? And then at the end, so you had your midterm,

you had your final, and then you had to submit your book. But then we figured out the only reason you had to submit your book was so that he could see that you actually bought it. And when you submitted your book, you had to submit it outside of his office, and it was thick. You had to write your last name on every panel of the book. So when you went to his office, there was about a hundred different book stacked, and everyone had to write their name big enough that you could see it. And I am still convinced that part of his grading system was taking out a piece of paper, just reading

the name, okay, they submitted their book, they paid, there's an A-minus. Like, that's how antiquated his system was. Did you remember with the final, the final question on his final exam was? What grade do you think you deserve in this class? Wait, seriously. It was like a no,

yeah, it was like a no fact that you put an A, he'd give you a B plus. And if you put a B plus, he'd give you an A minus. He didn't give anybody an A ever. No one got a net. Unless he like knew you,

right, unless you really showed up every day. Yeah. Wow. What a joke. And we probably paid, what, five grand for that fucking class?

Oh, man. If you wanted to, the credit out, oh, whatever. I didn't get into it. The credit hours that I was paying to go to a class that I never went to, it's just crazy. Okay, I got to leave you at this, because then we're running out. Okay. Her trade, Jill's trading secret was, you know, buy, low, sell high.

Oldest saying in the book, but I think we live in a time right now where this is more relevant than ever with what we're seeing in the market. If you've made it this long, you've earned some advice from Jason Tardock right now. What are you doing in this buy, low, sell high environment? This market's nuts, man. It's honestly out of control. First of all, I would make sure you're putting limit orders in that will reduce your overall exposure if you're putting in limit orders. It will decrease your total risk of what you can lose in this outrageous, volatile market. The other thing is I would make sure that you can use option contracts if you know what you're doing. If you don't, don't get involved, but that can minimize your risk and your overall monetary exposure. And then the last thing I think is, like, I've talked about it, but averaging down, like pick a time once a month, understand the ETFs or mutual funds or the positions you want to get into, and then once a month, buy a small portion of it. And if you do that for the next 24 months in a row, once a month at the same time and the same place, you know your positions and your strategy, you buy in, you'll have 24 different entry points in a very volatile market, and that'll be beneficial for you. So those are a couple strategies. One thing David and I might do is we might pick up the zooms, do a little market update here and there and just give some perspectives, have David ask about what's going on, what's relevant, and things that you can do.

So it can impact your financial situation. And we will put those clips all over the Facebook group and the Trading Secrets, Instagram. So as per usual, make sure you're following trading secrets. Facebook group, make sure you're following Trading Secrets. Facebook page, the restart roadmap on Amazon's on a limited. time discount now. So if you haven't got your copy, go get your copy. And that is my advice. David, any other thoughts or questions you want to leave us with? No, that was great. Another awesome episode. I'll get all the Real Housewives from all the cities on here. They always bring the heat

and the intensity. So I'm all for it. I love it. Well, that day, we also interviewed Kyle Cook from Summerhouse, which is amazing. We interviewed Amanda Hirsch. We got Pilot Pete coming on here soon to not only talk about Bachelor in Paradise, but to talk all about the auto, not the auto, the pilot industry from a pilot. Like, and I went in, I'm like, why the fuck are my flights getting canceled? Why are my shit getting delayed? Tell me, I want the pilot's perspective. So we got a ton of great episodes coming up. Please make sure to give us five stars. Give us feedback. You want guests. You want topics. Literally, David and I have a whole album of screenshots from the reviews. The compliments mean a lot to us. The feedback we're listening to. And most importantly, the five

stars. Go follow us on all social. Thanks for being with us. David, you got any last thought? We're good. I can't wait to see you next week. Let's go. Thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets. One, hopefully you could not afford to miss. Thank you.