Trading Secrets - 59: $48 Million+ made playing poker! Daniel Negreanu, World’s Best Poker player tells us how!

Episode Date: July 4, 2022

Check out The Restart Roadmap: Rewire and Reset Your Career now!   This week, Jason is joined by none other than one of the best known professional poker players,  Daniel Negreanu! From dropping out of high school and making $45/hr playing poker to going on to play professionally and win 6 World Series Poker bracelets, Daniel reveals the secrets to  his deloading process, how to read body language, managing your bankroll and what makes him one out of millions when it comes to his success.  What is the highest win and biggest loss he has had in one sitting? Who is the best celebrity poker player he has played against? What rules has Daniel made for himself to set himself up for success?  Daniel answers all of these and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!    Daniel’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/DNegsPoker   Be sure to follow the Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram & join the Facebook group.   Sponsors: Shopify.com/secrets for a free 14-day trial   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. We are so very lucky to be joined by one of the greatest and most influential poker players of all time. And as you guys know, I am a huge, huge poker fan. He goes by the name of Daniel Nogranjo. Since high school, Daniel has been a brilliant poker player who became more and more of a force to be reckoned with. With his gain knowledge, experience, and accolades, Daniel has continued to have success on poker tournament trails all over the world. With earnings in the tens of 20s, of 30s, of 40s, millions of dollars, we're going to get into the numbers.

Six World Series poker bracelets, two world poker. tour titles. Not only is he a genius poker player, but he's made notable appearances in movies such as The X-Men, Wolverine, The Grand Katie Perry's music video, waking up in Vegas, and much more. He's also published three books and has a master class. He is in the Poker Hall of Fame. This guy has done it all, and he is a guy that I grew up watching. I mean, I loved poker, Daniel, so I am so excited to have you on. Thank you so much for coming on this episode, Trane Secrets. pleasure that's quite the intro there's one thing i haven't done and that's gone on the bachelor and it's really for now because i'm locked up we're locked up for life well i was going to say i would

we could have made that happen but i know you have a beautiful beautiful awesome better half so congratulations to you there and and she was she's a fan of the bachelor right oh yeah she got me into it right so like it's must i i have to watch it like even when i'm playing in big tournaments i must that's our QT that's our quality time and i got to watch that and then i got to watch the Bachelor in Paradise. Then I got to listen to the Instagram stories and all that to come later. So, you know, I do my part as a good husband. Oh my God. I love that and I love that you own it. I can't tell you how many husbands I come across that are like, yeah, my wife forces me to watch it. And you're like, no, you know what? I get hooked into it, but we're going to do it. It's

entertaining. I enjoy it. It's good stuff. Probably not. Yeah, I love it. Well, you got to love. I got my fellow Canadian right there. You know, I got some Canadian blood coming in our family. We got Caitlin Bristow. So we're keeping it in the franchise. You know, those Canadians, They're cut different, but they're cut great, as you know. All right, let's get into your story. So one of the cool things I think about, like, why, if someone asked me, why do I enjoy poker? And like, why was I watching you as a kid? My grandfather was a big poker player, and he actually ran an underground game at his house.

And then I come to find out, the more he teaches me about the game, I learned that my dad actually paid for my mom's engagement ring by playing poker on the side. and I'm just like blown away by this. And then I'm reading more about your story, from what I already know, and that at the young age of 16, you actually came into the game. And then I saw, I expected, Daniel, to read that you dropped out of college. But you dropped out of high school to start playing poker at a professional level where this would be your wages.

So I first want to hear, when not did you come across the game? But when did you come in touch with the game so much that you almost, you got hooked and saying, like, I can do this better than everybody. Yeah, so this should come with, like, a viewer discretion is advised, not advice for anyone, but like, as a teenager, I was pretty blessed to have two parents and support and I could live at home, right? And then I, you know, I started playing poker as a teenager. And I was starting to take it very seriously and I was keeping track.

And I was like, cocky little kid. And, you know, I was making about $45 an hour, right? Doing 40 hours, I'm like, what am I going to do this school? I'm making more than this math teacher is trying to teach me something that I don't we're going to need about algebra, right? So I really sort of fell into it. And I think right around the age of 22 is when I realize that like, what am I? Like, am I just like a bum who gambles? Or is this going to be my profession? Is this going to be something that I'm going to take the next level and try to, you know, make it to Vegas and play against the best players in the world? And so when

you're doing that though, is now we know that professional, being a professional poker player is a possibility. It's a plausibility. And people have done it. extremely successfully like yourself. At your age, when you were taking this really seriously, was that path really created from others and was it as prevalent as it is today? And how much of a risk was saying, I'm going to go be a pro poker player in Vegas at the time you did. You know, you're hitting on a very important point. And that, you know, back then it was a stigma, right? Like people that played, they said they do something else. Like you didn't want to be known as a poker player and get the who, you know. Then the poker boom happened, right? It was on

TV. It became this big, you know, show. And all of a sudden, he's like, oh, you're a poker player. That's great. But for me, there was definitely a path in that, you know, there were other, you know, players that I came across in Toronto that were professionals. And then, even back then, you know, on ESPN, you know, there was a World Series of poker, which I get to see, you know, the Phil Helmew versus Johnny Chan stuff. So I saw and I was researching and like learning about it and realized that, you know, this could be a thing. People do do this for a living and make, you know, and I was already, the thing is, when I realized it was a possibility, I was already making 45 bucks an hour, which is a pretty good job for like an 18 year old kid.

That's great job. And we just had pilot Pete on, former bachelor, so hopefully you watched his season. I was blown away. We talked about the aviation industry. I was blown away at the fact that at some regional airlines, pilots are starting off at like 25, 30, 35 bucks an hour. So you're, you know, at your age, like you said, you're making more than a math teacher. And at that time, you're making more than some pilots now. I mean, that is, that's eye-opening. You save 45 bucks an hour, Daniel, just to give people perspective, how many hours in a week were you grinding at the tables at this age? So as a teen, I mean, I always had sort of a goal-oriented view of most things that I do. Like, I'm a big goal setter, and I was even then. And I realized, like I said, if I want to take this

seriously, I need to map it out. So I clocked in at noon, okay? That's like the crack in noon, right? So I started my play early riser I would play till 8 p.m. And at 8 p.m., regardless of how much I was up or down, that was checkout time. And that was quit. And I would do that about five days a week. So you're looking at 40 hour weeks. There were occasions where I would stay a little bit longer, but I set rules for myself. I said, I'm not going to stay longer if I'm losing. Because when you're losing, your mindset shifts and you start thinking that you're playing really well, but it's less likely to be true. Whereas if you're winning and things you're going well, that's the time when you want to push. And I think, that's like the reverse of what 99% of poker players do. When they're losing, they're like, they're going to chase and try to get that money back, right? And then they throw more money at it and end up, you know, losing big numbers. And you're our first poker player we've ever had on. We did have Molly Bloom from Molly's game on. So she talked a lot about the under game, gunder games and the industry and how that all worked. But one of the things that I think is so important for every single person that's listening, are there are so many themes and takeaways from the game

of poker that are applied to all areas of life. You just talked about people that are down. We'll go down further because they start chasing, right? The old adage of tilt in poker for anyone that's not aware. That happens in everywhere. If you're like a date trader, if you're an investor, hell, if you're in a relationship and your significant other hasn't texted you're just started dating, what do you do? You start going down the rabbit hole. They're not answering. What's going on? I've got to keep texting them. So these themes, guys, that we're going to talk about throughout this podcast of poker really correlate to your financial. life and your professional life and there's takeaways here and we're talking to literally in my opinion

the best ever that's ever done it so i think you talked about a good one with tilt i want to get into bankroll management because i think that's another overarching theme at 22 you go to be a professional poker player and you're making 45 bucks an hour how much bankroll management like at this point what does your bankroll look like and what's your risk appetite with the given bankroll you have when you're heading to bagas all right this is another spot where we're going to start with Your discretion is advice. I'm going to put it, I'm going to, actually, we might title the episode. Yeah.

Your discretion advice. So here's the thing, right? In order to figure out the best way to approach bankroll management, the way that I did was by making a lot of mistakes, right? Putting way too much on the table. Like the way that poker works, there is variance, much like the market or anything else, right? You can be the best player at the table. But if you don't have enough tools, you don't have enough money to play, any short little

run a variance and you're gone, poof. But I always had big ambition, right? And I always wanted to push the next level and try and go higher. So what I did was I'd go broke often, you know, but I knew that I'd created a name for myself in the community, the people would loan me money. And then I would like grind it back up. What I ultimately learned the best way for me to tackle kind of like wanting to maintain stability and also give myself a chance at the big, you know, the big fish is to just sort of segment a small percentage of my bankroll. for a decent percentage, and take shots with it, right? And that's what I would recommend across the board,

whether it's trading or whatever the case may be. Like, if you have your solid investments that are safe, and then you use, you know, 20% of that, or 15% to 20% and that's where you take some crazy-ass crypto shot, you know? Luna! To the moon! I like that. We had Mark Randolph on, right, founder of Netflix.

And one of the things he talked about was OPM, and he talked about his whole strategy of other people's money. So, guys, it's another overarching theme that is transferable to poker to even the co-founder of Netflix. When you would get loans from people, what was your process? I know you said you had a good reputation, but did you have to, like, showcase some of your statistics or did you have to put like any type of pitch together or people just like, you know what, take this amount of money and what would they ask for interest, equity?

How did that get structured? So the poker world is completely unique, you know, and that it had a bad stigma about us being, you know, like shady characters, but there's more trust in loaning money than you'll see in any other venture. There's no contracts. There's no interest. There's no anything. There's here's a thousand dollars, you know, pay me back when you got it. Like, not even knowing the guy's last name, maybe not even having his phone number, not knowing where he lives. Like this was very, very common. And for me, I mean, eventually your word is your bond, right? So if you screw over a lot of people, well, you're not, you're not going to have any more out. It's like people

are going to like the word spreads within the community. For me, what I did was, I remember taking it exceptionally seriously. Like I would like to play in higher stakes games, right? When I borrowed some money from somebody, I would play the smaller stakes games and forget eight hours a day. I would put toothpicks in my eyes and I'd stay all day and all night as long as I could until I could pay them back as quickly as possible, right? Because that was priority number one. And then have a little bit of a cushion for myself, right? Because say, for example, I borrowed $5,000 from someone, right? Well, if I only have $5,500, I can't pay that $5,000 back. I mean, I could, But, you know, then I'm back to square one, which is 500.

So I'd have to get to about 10,000 or so before I could feel comfortable saying, here, take that five back. How are you staying emotionally bad? Like, I mean, to some people that hear that are going to be like, that's like one of the most badass thing that I ever heard. And some people hear that, be like, oh, I could do that. But how do you stay emotionally balanced when you have 5K from the guy next door? You just know him as Joe, but who knows who Joe's got behind him. And only 500 net profit. So 5,500 bucks.

How are you, like, staying confident with your game knowing that the swings are so high? Like, what are you doing mentally to stay balanced? Well, I got to say, first and foremost, it's not for everybody. In order to be a professional poker player or gambler, or I think, because I really do believe there's like a bunch of connection to the markets and things like that, you have to have a special kind of mind that can deal with adversity and have perseverance. And really, like my wife always says, you know, I'm incredibly resilient, you know, going through bad times, I always find a way to just focus on what I'm doing.

And what I try to do to ensure that I'm making good decisions, I focus on the decisions I'm making, right? And if those are good, like I analyze my play, I might, you know, I'm going to analyze the decisions I made. And if I'm good with those decisions, it allows me to have the confidence to continue. If I made mistakes, I don't dwell on them, but I will absolutely hammer home what that mistake was. So that the next time I'm faced for the similar decision or situation, I don't make that same mistake. So it's almost like you're somewhat eliminating emotion in these situations. and you're using strictly analytical inputs and analytical outputs to get more information based on the information, almost like utilizing game theory to then make your decisions.

And when your decisions are off, you're putting all the information you gathered back into your brain and system so that your efficiency is increasing for the next game, for the next hand. And that has been your strategy to success all these years? That is absolutely on track, except for one key caveat. I am not a robot. I'm a very emotional person. So within that, I allow myself those moments to feel to be present to what I'm actually experiencing.

So I'll allow myself to vent. On the walk home from the mirage after going broke, you know, and having to go back to a motel, you know, I had that moment, that internal moment where I had the despair, I had the doubt, I had the second guessing, you know, I have the frustration, the anger. I allow myself to experience all that. Get a good night, sleep. Wake up in the morning, charge and ready to go, right? I love it.

you start reset, get it going. You already mentioned earlier that like guys you looked up to, right, like Johnny Chan. And here you are 23 years old and you're the youngest to win a world series of poker bracelet, which is why you got to name the kid. So when I was watching, growing up, he was the kid. That's how we called Daniel. We refer to him at the poker table when we're playing. So you're the kid and you're 23. You've already talked about growing up looking at Johnny Chan. How do you deal with any form of imposter syndrome when you're that young playing against the best in the world of the people that you looked up to

in a game where there's so many swings. Do you have any tips or tricks for anyone out there that might deal with imposter syndrome? And specifically, how do you not get intimidated by someone like that? You know, in poker, it's worse probably than it would be in any other industry because luck can sort of skew reality for you, right? Like, you can be not even a winning player in a game,

but you could win for a month, for two, and all of a sudden have this false sense of like how great you are. Or conversely, you know, you could go through a rough patch of six weeks and start to have that self-doubt and go, you know what, I'm just not as good as these people, right? Which is really, which is why it's so important to focus on the decision making and analyze that and having a group of people around you that you trust, that you can balance ideas off of I find to be incredibly valuable and important in terms of, you know, just checking in with yourself. But, you know, I did have those moments when I first sat with these guys and I'm like, oh my God, you know, I am intimidated. But the first time I checked, raised Johnny Chan, with the bluff, and he folded. I was like, uh-huh. Okay, so they are human.

They are not perfect. I can't, you know, sit with these guys and win. Did you show him your bluff when you got him? No way. No chance, right? So you're a young kid. They don't know anything about you. You're sitting down at the table.

You got all the moves and you got the tricks. You don't reveal your cards to a player like that. You know, I do show my cards occasionally, but it's not going to be against the table. the pro, especially when I'm new to the table. Hell no. All right. Well, inversely to the imposter syndrome, now you're at a perspective in your life. I'm sure any card room you walk into or anywhere you go, there's more fandom than anything, right? Pictures and everything else and storytelling. Do you utilize at the table and with like your play, the status that you have to your advantage? Well, I'm obviously acutely aware of it. And I'm acutely aware that every single person in the

table is going to perceive me differently, differently. But there's probably more hands that I've played online, like to view on TV than anyone in the history of poker. So I already know going in that people are going to have preconceived ideas about what I do. So it's my job when I sit down to sort of identify like what type of person is this. Is this the guy who is a hometown hero wants to tell a story to his friends? Or is this somebody who is just like afraid of me and doesn't want to get in my way, right? So it's my job to figure out the difference. But also, So within that, I know that I can use a little bit of my stature as an intimidation tactic, right? Because that's my comfort zone you're in. So if you're uncomfortable,

that's good for me. It's really fascinating to watch. And guys, there are times I've seen Daniel on TV, and he's done it many, many times. But you'll actually call the cards that are in the individual's hands and they will show you. It's almost like magic, guys, but it's obviously very analytical. He will literally to the number and the suit, he will call what the person's holding, and they will show it. And Daniel, you're correct. And so I want to ask you just about overall, like, when you play, what would you say the percentage is of analytics numbers versus actual intangibles of reading body language, seeing the way someone's breathing, you know, reading the pulse on their neck, all the different signs and

stuff that show nerves and excitement? How does your game kind of balance those two moving parts. So you touched on two obviously really important parts about poker, which is both, you know, on one side, the human side, the people side, and then the analytic, right? And for me, the answer that question depends on my opponents and the stakes that I'm playing. If I'm playing at the very highest levels, those guys don't give away these obvious tells, you know, they're not going to, you know, make it easy on you in that regard. So there, your focus is going to be predominantly on analytics and understanding, you know, the math behind the things and the fundamentals. If I'm playing at a lower stakes thing or like the World Series Booker main event,

where you have a lot of people there for the first time. Now I'm going to depend heavily on my physical reads about them. What are they wearing? What are their posture like? What are their eyes doing? What are their breeding patterns I'm going to pick up on and things like that? So it's really, it depends, again, on the type of opposition that I'm up against. You mentioned the term game theory before, right?

So when I play against high-level players, I'm trying to play as game theory optimal as I can. Okay? When I'm playing against, you know, amateur players, I'm doing what we call exploit, right? So we know what the game three optimal play is, but against Jason, I have to change my play because Jason calls too much on the river. So even though the theoretical play is X, you know, like I should be bluffing here a lot. Now, not going to do it against Jason, because he calls me too much.

So that's how like sort of the poker mind does a little bit of both. Interesting. And for anybody out there that doesn't know anything about how to read someone's body language, like the things you mentioned, like breathing deeply or maybe leaning back in your chair and maybe they can apply that to like going on an interview or maybe it's their next date or maybe it's their next negotiation. What type of things would you give as far as advice of like reading someone's body language and how you can interpret that as an individual, whether it's at the poker table or in the meeting room? Yeah, no, there's so many. But we'll start with posture,

right? One of the things I notice in poker is when people are comfortable and they're telling the truth and they're whatever, their body language is going to be relaxed. They may lean back in the chair and it looks soft, if you will. It looks fluid, right? When they're lying and bluffing, they're upright, they're tense, arms are straightened. You know, they're trying not to bring attention to themselves so that you don't look at them. And that would generally be more of case of like, I'm lying. So whether it was a job interview or whatever, somebody comfortably looking at you and just chatting

comfortably is way more likely to be telling the truth than someone who you ask them a question, they're stiff. They won't look at you. They kind of look away. They look left. They look right. It's because they're thinking about what they want to say. You don't need to think about what you want to say when you're just telling the truth. You basically just speak, right? I mean, it's like it seems like a very intuitive concept. One, hopefully someone could take something away from that and apply it to any other area, maybe not poker. But do you ever, or do you see people? I'm sure you do, right? Trying to do the reverse psychology knowing that. Like, if people know leaning back is confident,

and there are times that you're picking up on people that are leaning back as a reverse psychology because they're actually nervous as shit that you're going to call them down? There are, you know, there are that we call those the actors, you know, the people that try to reverse things on you, but often they give it away even more, right? Okay. Like, you know, once you see that once, you're like, all right, this guy, he's going to reverse things on me. But as a general principle and a rule, here's a thing. When you're looking for, they're called tells, player tells,

you're looking for anything different or unique. And then you want to, like, see what they look like and then look at the hand they've played. Okay? So when they're bluffing, you know, and they were chewing their gum and all of a sudden they're bluffing and they stop chewing, you want to really pay attention to that hand and see what they turn over. And if they turn over a bluff, you mark that down. And then you collect data, right, just like anything. It's a data point. You're like, all right, he stopped chewing gum and he was bluffing.

Let's see what happens the next few times, right? Okay, the next time he had a really good hand, he didn't stop chewing his gum. So now I have two data points. The more data points you have, the more likely they're valuable and the more likely you'll be able to, you know, use them to your advantage. I love that. I'm going to take that answer in use it because in the recap, what we're going to do, guys, is I'm going to have my co-host. We call him the Curious Canadian. He's from Vancouver. I'm going to show him the clip of when you called, the one I'm referring to, when you called out the exact hand that your opponent had, that's your answer, just inputs, data, information. And then I assume that the outcome of the cards he could have held, given the information you knew in the way you're interpreting it were only like a few possibilities and you nailed it. Yeah. So just like a puzzle with poker. you start with a grid of all the possible hands, right? Then based on the actions of your opponent, their player personality, all those kind of things,

as the hand progresses by the river, you start to eliminate. All right, they can't have that because they wouldn't have done this. Can't have this because they wouldn't do this. And then you maybe get down to about one, two, or three different hands, combinations. Then you look at the guy and you say, okay, this guy's really, really confident, so I'm pretty sure he has bab boom. And then I often will tell them that hand to intimidate them, essentially.

Because imagine playing poker with someone and they look at you and go, I know what you got. You got kings. The next time you play a pot against me, that's going to weigh on your mind. You're going to be nervous and you're going to be afraid and you're going to be less likely to try to bluff me too. If I had you looking in my eyes telling me I had kings and I had kings, I'd walk the hell away from the table. I mean, you've got to be kidding me. That's unbelievable. All right, Daddy, I want to get into some of the numbers behind this industry and some of the success you've had.

You've won millions and millions of dollars. But when you talked about the highs and lows and going broke, when we're going, when was the last time Daniel on the ground year was broke. And when that point hit, did you ever consider at any point stop playing the game professionally? No. So, I mean, as a teenager, yeah, when I went broke a few times, you know, there was a point where I stopped playing for like six months or whatever. Like I got back to school, you know, and all that. But I remember the most important time was probably, and it wasn't like broke, broke, but I had a really good year in 1999, right? And I finally achieved success. Sorry to interrupt, but what's a really good year for

someone that's like? What is that? So back then, it's different than it is today. Today, you know, a really good year would be winning four or five million. Back then in 1890, you know, a good year was winning four or five hundred thousand, right? Got it. Okay. Okay. So up until that point, you know, I was in my early 20s. I never had, you know, big numbers of money. And I worked really hard. You know, I was playing every day in these small events. So for the first time, I finally had money. And the year of 2000 was a bit of a blur, right? So I reached that pinnacle of like having success. And the issue that I faced was I didn't have any foundation or anything to sort of like strive for anymore.

So I became complacent. I'd be drinking and playing. I didn't really care as much. And I started just like, you know, went on autopilot. And by the end of the year, poof, you know, the money was gone, essentially. So I had to start all over. And what I learned about that is that's a power. that a lot of people in poker, and I think in life-based, and it's a self-sabotaging pattern,

right, where every day, when they're trying to achieve a certain amount of money, every day they have a grind, right? They wake up, they grind. So they have purpose. They have meaning. They have a foundation. They have a reason for living and waking up, right? Then when they get there, you know, and they build that $1 million, $2 million bankroll, they don't have any other foundations. So what they'll often do is self-sabotage, below it all. And guess what? You now have purpose again. And that purpose is to go back to, work. So I saw that pattern with other pros that were older than me. And I said, you know what? I did it once. I'm like, this is never going to happen again. And that was the end of it for me.

Wow. That's an unbelievable takeaway, especially when you look at and you look again, it's just analyzing patterns and doing it at an elite level, the highs and lows. When you look at the highs, though, the biggest runs you've ever had and the most success that you've ever accomplished, which is the numbers are nuts, guys. I think it's over 112 caches in WSOP. I mean, we'll go through all the analytics in the recap. Daniel's numbers are just out of control. But when you look at it, of course, there's spurts of luck. I think you would probably attest to that. There is in the game to a certain level.

But what were things that you think you were doing that you could control in your lifestyle that led to those massive, massive runs you had? No question. I'm glad you brought up that question because it's an important one. Like obviously, as I said earlier, you know, I was short of like figuring out how to do this via making mistakes. And then I learned specific principles and rules. that work for me, right? So I am a prototypical, what's called talkative introvert, right?

Which means I am talking about, I'm social, but I charge my batteries when I'm alone. I don't when I'm around people. So I remember like when the World Poker Tour first came on, the first couple seasons, I didn't do well at all. Why? Well, I was out having dinner and drinking with people till 4 in the morning, showing up the next day, you know, hungover, not fully prepared to play, sort of half in my head going, all right, well, if I lose this hand, at least I can go back to bed. That's not a good way to focus on the game. So I made specific rules for myself. I don't go to dinners with people the night before a tournament.

Okay? I don't socialize. I make sure I get eight hours sleep. I don't do any alcohol whatsoever the night before. The other thing that I was doing was unlike other people, I was having very clear intention. If the tournament ended on Friday, I wasn't booking my flight to leave on Thursday. I planned for success. I brought the suit or the outfit that I wanted to wear at the final thing.

So I was envisioning it. I was setting myself up for success rather than always leave. me, well, you know, if I bust out, then, you know, I can do, no, there is no, I don't want to put that in my universe. So I'm clear on my way intention is to win this tournament, right? So then I work back. I'm going to make sure that every step I take is in line with that. Was drinking the night before in line with that? No. Right. Was part of that, that's not in line with my goal. So if that's clearly my intention, which is to win this tournament, now I work back and go, are my actions, you know, in accordance with that? And if not, you got to fix that.

And a customized solution, I think, is just so important for everyone and figuring out exactly what works for you and how you're going to do it. And the fact that you adjusted and continue to position and find the best path for you is just, it's optimal. It's everything you've done. That's what elite professionals do. But I also want to think about the other people that are in your circle, right? Like, if you think about like the Phil Helmuths or the Phil Ivey's or any of the big monsters who have had super success, do you see the same type of correlation of what you just described to me and their worlds of when they find the most success within this space? Or do you think that their customization to success is extremely different from what you had just mentioned

that has led to your success? Yeah, I think you bring up a really good point in that it's sort of individualized, right? What works for me, what's important for me. I have a different personality type. And a guy like Phil Ivy, you know, he's an extreme personality where when he's into something, he's hyper-focused. You know, he's just, he immerses everything he has into that. As a result, relationships, life, all that takes a back seat to what he's doing. And that's what works for him. In order for him to fuel his ambition, he needs to just focus wholeheartedly. He's a little older now.

He's added balance to his life because, you know, there's pros and cons to being that way. But I do think it's important. Like, as you said, you know, what I did is to find out what works for you, what doesn't when what doesn't. So most important, when I'm done a tournament, the most important process is like the delode of like, all right, now I'm analyzing all the hands. did I make mistakes, whatever. I'm doing the infamous idea of just like, what worked, what didn't work, right?

What worked? I was doing this. What didn't work? Let's focus on that. What are we going to do better next time? Because I'm always a believer that there's always learning. I think whether it's in trading or in poker, if you get complacent where you think you've got it all figured out, you know, and that's where you start to fall behind because there's other

people that are younger than you that are working really hard to surpass you. So even if you don't move in terms of your knowledge base or your skill level, by default, you become worse than them because they're getting better every day. I know from Toronto, right, the old Kodak model in Rochester, New York. Kodak was literally the apple of our generation. You become complacent. You'll end up bankrupt and broke. There's no doubt about that.

One thing I just strict curiosity, you say like the deloading process of getting all this information that you had just learned. When you do that, is it all mental notes? or do you have like a process of like organization of of deloading this information like under an Excel file or some type of resource or is it all up top? So I do a combination depending on the severity, depending on how complex the hand was, but usually I use my phone and I keep notes on the exact actions and the exits and things like that. And today, I think much like, you know, in the trading world or whatever, you know, data is much more sophisticated. So there is

solvers which we use artificial intelligence that you can input a situation or hand. And it will give you the game theory optimal output so that you can study you know study that and I spent a decent amount listen I'm a 47 year old dude I didn't even know how to turn this thing on right but I hired a couple guys who were computer data scientists they sort of taught me and I remember it being very intimidating for me because I didn't I was like I don't get it I don't think I can do this but you know with a few more reps and like really them being impatient and being good teachers it was value was it was it was value and I think the lesson there really for anyone is you know you're never too old to learn new tricks, you know, and you have to be willing to be like, you know, to humble yourself sometimes

and be like, listen, maybe this is something I don't understand. Can you teach me? Even if that person is the 21-year-old, like, you know, intern who, you know, you're like a 50-year-old successful giant, but he's the 21-year-old intern. There's probably things that he teach you if you're open to it. Hey, one day you were the kid. Now you got some of the new kids coming on the block. It's just like the circle of life. It's just how it's just how things go. When you think about those simulations, Daniel. And like, if I gave you a scenario, I'm not going to, but I'm just curious. Like, if you said, like, you know, Jack's first, you know, Ace King, this is the suit, this what's on the board. Can you quickly compute, like, exactly what the probability and odds

of outcome are? Like, are you at that level now that it's just like, it's instantaneous? Yeah, I don't spend a lot of time on that because it's already like, you know, I've done that already. So it's like once I'm in the spot, like, I pretty much know. But the key thing is, it's with poker, like being that finite or worried, like, well, my 67% or 68.2%, that doesn't that's not going to matter all that much with a poker situation because it's like, as long as you can ballpark and be really, really close, you know, then you know, then you're fine. But like, yeah, you're right in one sense in that the more you do something, the more it becomes automatic. Like when I first started, I had to count in my head, you know, what are the pot

odds? Now I know. I mean, I've just, I've done it long enough. I love it. One of the things I always like to ask some people that come on the podcast that are just the best in their worlds that they've ever seen, right? Like the A-Rodds or the Rob Deere decks or the unbelievable athletes, and you certainly fall in that category is when you look at the sport of poker, you have millions and millions and millions of people, just like golf, millions and millions of people that sit and play and know how to play and enjoy playing. And would even love playing professionally.

What is it about you that makes you the best? What is the one thing? Now, I don't want, like, I work hard. Like, what really, if you had to attest it to anything, what is it that makes you won in millions? Several things, but we'll start with a competitive streak. I've always been very, very competitive and, like, wanted to win. But I think even more important is self-awareness of always being able to gauge where I'm at and where I can get better. Because, like, we sort of touched on, you know, the complacency issue.

A lot of guys, they start winning and they think, oh, you know, I'm hot shit or whatever, where, you know, they stop working. But I've always been willing to sort of be introspective and dive in, you know, my thought process. And also, I would say, like, finally, you know, along with the competitiveness and self-awareness is discipline, right? Discipline to put in the work and the resilience to be able to, like, come back from bad beats. Because, like, bad, we call them bad beats. But this is going to happen to you in your life, like, no matter what you're doing, you're going to have moments where there are breakdowns. And I look at those opportunities, I mean, I think of breakdown. I look at those opportunities to learn something really valuable so that I don't make those mistakes again.

So I enjoy the journey of that. I really do. Like, I enjoy the process of making mistakes and digging deep and being like, all right, well, how do I plug this leak? You know, that's how we look at things. And I think so many people say it. Like, the things that you, like, discipline in competitive advantage and self-awareness or competitive drive, those are things that a lot of people, I think, think that they have

or desire to have. But the actual work ethic to do that, especially self-awareness, people's ego, like you said, gets in the way of all their actions on a day-to-day basis and to, to manage all three of those is like you have had one in millions. And we know that. I want to get into some of the success you've had. The last thing I read was January of 2020, it was the last article I could find over $42 million is what they're saying in tournament cashes. One, is that number pretty accurate because you know online everything could be, who knows what. And two, do you have you had more success with the tournament aspect of poker or the cash aspect of poker?

So I've had success in both overall in my life. The number's probably a little. little closer to 50 million now because, you know, we're like 48, 49. But, you know, and I don't really, so I've always like, as I said, part of the reason that I like tournaments is because of the competition aspect where there's a beginning, middle, and an end, where cash games just playing for money, that feels kind of like a job. And I'll tell you one other thing that was really important. One of the key reasons I got good at poker was money was never the reason I was doing this. I loved playing the game. I was passionate about this game and I loved playing it so much. that money came. I think a huge mistake a lot of people make is they go into an industry or they

go down a path because they think they're going to make a lot of money doing it, not because they love it. Whatever it is. If you don't love it, like ask yourself this, is it worth having like a lot of money if you hate what you do or you have no, you know, no joy from it? I mean, obviously money's nice, but most people, if money is their main focus, they're not going to reach the heights unless they like I said, have that just absolute passion for it. Yeah, that is such a theme. And I think even the people that do end up catching a break in reaching those heights, only chasing money, like the satisfaction in their overall life and happiness just goes to complete shit from at least what I've seen in the people I've talked to. And that's so consistent.

$48 million. That is unbelievable in tournament winnings. Question I got to ask you then, because I saw on pokernews.com that you're actually inviting fans and people to put you in a stake. They can contribute their money to stake you at the World Series of Poker 2022 is what the article said. With that type of cash position and the success you've had, what is the brand strategy or business strategy of still raising capital and funds to be staked? Like, why not just use your own money given the success you've had? So there's no question that this deal, this offer I offer to fans is like beneficial to them because I'm giving away free equity, right? It's just like giving away money. But part of the

thing that I thought was interesting or would be fun is I do a daily vlog on my YouTube channel every day throughout the World Series that's about 20 minutes long that people can watch and live vicariously through me, right? And as you know, and most people know, if you watch a sporting event or whatever, having a few bucks on it makes it that much more interesting, right? So I thought one of the ways that we can sort of pull people in and have them have a rooting interest was to give like a small portion of my overall buyance. I'm going to spend this summer close to $2 million in buyance, right? That's what I'm going to be putting up.

That's what I'm going to need. So I've sold like three, 400,000 of that to fans and they can have like a daily opportunity to buy a little piece. It's sort of like a give back, if you will. But ultimately, you know, I have a back-in reason for all this too. Like I have a sponsorship deal with a company called Gigi poker. Sure. So the more eyeballs we bring in to the YouTube channel, there's a back-in where like, you know,

we want to continue to promote that company specifically. specifically. So I'm willing to, you know, give back. Because like what most pros do when they sell pieces, they sell it at a markup, right? So if I bought in for a $1,000, right? If some, if I bought in for a 10,000 tournament and I sold you 10%, it's $1,000, right? Sure. That's what that's at no markup. And that's the offer I give people, which is really good value. Most pros will sell, but they'll charge you for that 10%. They'll charge you 1,200 or 1,300. So they get a little bit of a, you know, they get a little bit more fair value. Where I have a couple of questions on but where is that YouTube channel that if people want to watch they can find it what's the name of it

well it's YouTube it's like my name actually if you google them just so yeah the channel's just your name i think it's my name yeah and there's like like i said throughout the entire summer there'll be a daily vlog i think every you know 10 p.m or 10 am. you know Pacific i said i filmed the whole thing myself on an on an iPhone and then that's awesome we have a team in korea that edits overnight and it's up the very next day and it's been pretty popular for a lot of people who you know And throughout it, I'll do hand breakdowns. So it's not just like, you know, it's a little bit of poker, a little bit of lifestyle, get my wife in there doing dumb stuff sometime.

That is so cool. So guys, what we'll do is we will link that YouTube in the description notes. Go follow along. Daniel, are you on TikTok or no? You know, I was told I was too old for TikTok. I get people sending me TikToks, but I've never actually downloaded the app. Okay. Use me as your motivation.

I'm going to feel like I'm your coach. I own a talent agency, so we're doing deals left and right on YouTube, on TikTok, on Instagram. TikTok is blowing up. And if you got on TikTok during World Series poker, I would just almost copy and paste the same content and then go live here and there during your tournament, you're going to have so many damn followers by the end of World Series poker. You won't even believe it. And the brand deals will be next level. Do it. Trust me. I mean, I'm mostly a Twitter guy, right? Okay. of IG, but yeah, TikTok was just like, I thought it was a young man's game, but I'll take a look. Tell all those editors to just make a TikTok format, copy, edit, you'll be in the game.

And when you get the younger guys, that's a whole new fan base for you. And trust me, they're going to follow along when they see the stuff going on. It's unbelievable. A couple of questions I have, though, when the pros are getting, so you said that they're taking some on top of it. That makes sense, right? They're not going to sell 10% at actual 10%. what type, we've talked about venture capital deals on this show, P.E. deals, all the investment deals. What percentage is it standard for a pro to stake themselves when they are lending?

So if they have a $20,000 buy in, what percentage of that typically will a pro put of their own money in versus money that's being staked? Well, that really highly depends on the pro and their personal bank role, right? So there's a whole bunch. There's a large group of people that don't sell anything. Like, I don't sell. The only time I do it is the World Series during this thing. Otherwise, I'm not selling anything. I'm just keeping all these. equity for myself. Sure. You know, I would say that probably in a field of 50 people, let's say 100 people,

you'll have 30 or 40 of the pros, maybe, you know, close to half, selling some portion of it. And usually what they'll do is they'll sell anywhere from like, you know, 20 to 30, 20 to 50% depending on the size of the buying. So for example, if your normal buying is, you know, 5,000, but there's this tournament that's 25,000, you want to play it, but, you know, it doesn't make sense within your bank role. now you bring in investors and you do that. Gotcha. It makes a lot of sense. One thing that a lot of

our viewers actually asked in when I said that I was interviewing you was they talked about, they'll see that on some of the final tables, people who they don't have a clue who they are, right? Like this was their one shot of luck or whatever. Or they just broke out and they get to the final table. And they'll be wearing like their normal outfit and then they'll have this like outrageous sticker logo. That's like so obnoxious. And I know that some of you guys are, you guys are like athletes where you have the big brand endorsements. What are companies like paying though to have like a final table logo on your shoulder, your hat? Like is that big money? Is it like NFL type money? Is it a couple hundred bucks? What does that look like? It, oh my God,

that whole window during like poker boom, people were getting way too much money. And my, my agent Brian Ballsbog from poker royalty, he really, you know, hit the iron while the arm was hot during that period where, like you said, random people, nobody knows, but these companies, these online poker companies, they wanted to get on TV because there was, you know, value there. So they were patching people up for like $100,000. So like most people were sitting at this table, $100,000 and put a sticker on my thing? Sure, why not, right? I think today you don't see the same kind of deals because that's sort of like tapered off.

And now it's mainly, as you say, people who are under an agreement, like a one year, you know, like a multi-year type deal where they always wear the gear or whatever and you don't see the one-offs as much and then the one-offs started to like you know be in the 5K, 10-K range that's when it sort of the tapered but at its height I remember what Brian would do

Brian and his agent crew at the World Series they would literally take a bunch of the names they would take pictures of them and they would walk around the halls looking to see if they could find this person and be like hey you John oh John hey I got an offer for you here's 100,000 if you'll wear this hat and I'm like okay so they

Why not? You know, they take their cut and, you know, they did pretty well during that period. Because there was a bidding war too, right? You had anytime there's a bidding more, like there was three prominent companies at the time online that were all vying for, you know, center stage. So you go to one company, they're like, oh, I'll give you $20,000. I'll give you $25, $30 over here. Once you can create a bidding more, you know, that was real valuable for my agent.

That is, I mean, that is a whole different world. And I'm sure that he has had a ton of success with it. What a really cool. I didn't realize that at that time, it might be a six-figure contract. It makes sense, though, like you said, given the ratings and numbers, it all ties back. Maybe that's tapered off because those numbers are down with all the different streaming and stuff, which is just a whole different world. The reason it tapered was because there was a bill passed.

Yes. The online poker. The Bush bill, right? Yeah, it was like UIGA. It was a guy named Bill Frist who passed. Bill Frist. It was unlawful Internet Gaming Act. So basically what it did was it curbed up, like all those sites that were paying all that money.

they can't market to U.S. players anymore because it's not, you know, it wasn't legal in the United States. So once that happened, you know, that just, you know, the bottom fell out. For anyone that has any type of stigma against online poker saying it might be fixed or rigged, what's your retort to it? I would say it's like, it's not fixed or rigged. I mean, I don't know what sites you're playing on. I know with G.G. Poker, like, we're verified in terms of our number generator. You're always going to have to worry in any form of poker or anything, you know, money related and people trying to cheat, right? But I can say that, like, the reputable sites, like Gigi Poker, for example,

they spend a lot of time and resources making sure that they're running straight games because they have incentive to, right? That's, they don't benefit. It's like, they don't benefit from rigging the game, right? All they do is you have 10 people sit at a table. You guys play, we just charge a percentage of each pot. They don't care who wins. So there's no incentive whatsoever to sort of rig it or, you know, push it against you.

But here's the thing. A lot of people feel that way or think that, right? Because they're like, I'm the greatest ever. How can I ever lose? Maybe you're not that good. I love it. Daniel, I could talk to you forever. I know we've gone a little bit over. So we'll have a rapid fire in your trading secret.

But the last question I got to ask you before the rapid fire, we just had Molly Blumon. I got to ask you, underground games. Have you ever, and we heard all about her story from the Russian mob putting guns down her throat to the FBI agents raiding her and so on and so on. When you think about underground games, the ones you're not seeing it, casinos. Do you have any like memorable, like one memorable story or something that's stuck with you or a lesson learned or just something that you'll always laugh on and tell jokes over a beer? Yeah, for sure. Probably the most fun or interesting one for me was it was Toby McGuire's

birthday and he was having a poker game at his house. So I came with a, you know, a gift of a chip set and then he's like put him over there with a pile because I guess everybody bought real original, Daniel. Yeah, real great. And then I'm sitting there playing and you know there was Jack Black, there was Leonardo DiCaprio, there were music producers. And it was the night, it was the weekend, actually, that Spider-Man was like in theaters, right?

So Leonardo was part of Titanic, which was the gross, you know, the highest gross. The phone would ring like every 20 minutes with the update. But he was like, you know, da-da-da-da-da. And you could see there was like a competitive thing between the two. And finally when Spider-Man actually surpassed

Titanic and Gross went, like Leonardo was pissed. Like, he come on no way he was really tilted you can see it you know yeah which is fun i thought you know because they're friends whatever but like yeah and it was also interesting just to see like i remember like there was a pot where you know leo lost the pot it's like three thousand dollars in the pot sure right big deal like yeah yeah yeah yeah and he was he went outside i think he broke a bottle or something like that and i'm thinking to myself you poor thing now you're only worth like 99 million nine hundred I think you'll I think you'll be okay Leo but it's what it speaks to it speaks to that competitive nature

that's what I was just going to say yeah I was just going to say that's what makes him Leo the same competitive thing you mentioned literally I was just going to say that oh my god crazy stuff crazy stories I'm sure you have many many more of those I got to do a quick rapid fire I'll throw it out there and just give me the answer that comes top of mind and then we'll wrap with the trading secret Daniel this has been awesome let's get into rapid fire if you're ready Okay, I'm ready. All right. Who is the best celebrity poker player you've ever played against?

Toby McGuire. Interesting. Okay, then I got to ask conversely. Who is the worst celebrity poker player have ever played against? So many bad ones. I'll just go with Chuck LaDale. You go with the guy who could break you in fucking F genius.

I love it. All right. How about the most in, it's a two-part question, the most you've ever won in one sitting and the most you've ever won in a year? The most I won in one cash game session was really like 800,000, not considered, not tournaments, but like cash games. And the most I'd lost in one day was 1.3. In a year, I think I had a year, it was 2014 or so, or I won like 14 million or something

like that. Damn. Yeah. Okay. So the 14 million year or the big years that you won the World Series, how do you celebrate? right? And what's the most you've ever spent on like a world series of poker bracelet celebration or like, you know, winning the 800K you did that one night? Okay, this is going to be embarrassing. Like usually after I win a tournament, there's like another tournament to go play.

So it's just like, finish the tournament and I jump right in the next one. So there's like not a lot of celebration. But on that note, like I'm not materialistic guy. I have a cool fun toys in my house. I've got a golf simulator upstairs. I have a green with a bunker in the backyard. Me and my wife drive a Tesla but like I don't I don't like this watch is an Apple watch and I actually think it's crazy when I look at what this thing can do for 200 bucks and I see this guy with a $300,000 watch I'm like buddy all that does is tell shitty time and you pay way more than what I did for this and I can fix on this all kinds of stuff I love that's a great philosophy and if you're listening to this live by that guys we talk about it all the time all right what's the most you've ever

actually seen someone else lose in a sitting I think I saw someone lose like her i don't play in the crazy games in asia where like people lose 50 60 million most i saw was about close to three million dollars damn that's a wild wild world so yeah it's crazy yeah that's what so what was it uh molly bloom was saying she saw about a hundred fifty million dollar loss had to be paid over time and then she had got arrested and locked up and she saw the same guy had actually lost over a billion since she had gone away from the game but then he had come back and made a good run crazy shit i don't this is these are worlds that i can't even comprehend the last one i got for you before we go to your trading secret we see a lot of

pros out there what pro do you have the best relationship with and which is do you find for you is like one of the toughest to play against well that's interesting because the answer is the same person and it's phil ivy somebody has always respected admired he has that killer tiger woods you know michael jordan-esque kind of vibe and intensity to him and it's not just because he's black, although a lot of people are going to put that together, but mannerisms, intensity, they just, he just probably, he probably mapped his poker after them to some degree, I think. And then, like, you know, his friends, we've, you know, we've been friends for a very long time. And I really enjoyed playing with him because it's a,

what we call it leveling more. He knows so much about me and how I, so we end up in these spots where it's like, he knows that I know, that he knows, I know he knows, that I know he knows, that I know he knows this, right? Like, wow. It's like, you know, trying to trick each other and it becomes more and more difficult. That's a wild game of math and I'm sure I can't even imagine what that's like. Is it true that he is like the guy? I heard you like, he'll just be like, okay, let's bet 20K the next color car is black. Like, or like he'll be like, let's put 10K on a hole.

Is that true? Is he like that wild or no? He's the craziest gambler there's ever been. I was, we were at, I remember it was a playoff game. It was a Sacramento Kings and San Antonio Spurred. We're sitting on the floor and literally we're just sitting on the floor and a bottle cap fell and it fell under his foot, right? And he's like, 10,000. I got, I got top. I'm like, you want me to bet on the bottle cap? What side is flipped on and it's under your foot while watching a game? It was like,

come on, bro. But our golf gambling has been just insane. We've, we've swapped millions of dollars back and forth in wins and losses on the golf course many a time. Who's a better golfer? It depends on, you know, who's working. I haven't been playing right now, but there was Well, he started out way better than me, and then I got a little better than him. And, you know, it's sort of gone back and forth throughout the years. And this is all done, by the way, word. There's no contracts. You're just like, yeah, I lost a million dollars in golf.

I'll pay you. Yeah, nobody even brings. I remember, yeah, nobody brings the money. It's just like, all right, what do I? How do you fucking pay? What do you pay them in chips? You wire? Is it like IRS?

Like, there's the wire. Well, no, usually it's chips. Yeah. You're like, one time I remember we had a big golf match. It was a scramble. Every team lost, like, 600,000 to us. And they just gave us a stack of, like, Bellagio chips. That's amazing. I love it. I can talk to you all day. The stories are crazy. I've taken

enough of your time. What a great episode of Trading Secrets, Daniel. You got to leave us, though, with one trading secret. Something someone can't read in a textbook, find online or, you know, learning a classroom that can only come from you giving your career track. What's one trading secret you can leave us with? So for me, I think it's like, you know, we sort of touched on these topics a little bit, but to sum it all up, like bankroll management and that number one, it's much easier to replace a small bankroll than it is a big one, right? So generally speaking, I'd be more comfortable with larger risks when you have a smaller bankroll, but once you've created a substantial one, then I would start to lower

my risk. Like my investment strategy with my money is like, I'm super nitty. I just have like municipal bonds and stuff that's super safe that's going to lock me up, you know, four to five percent return per year, right? And I still take some shops when, you know, when I, you know, when I follow, follow the nerds is what I do. Because I know nothing about the stuff. But if these nerds are talking about a crypto thing, I don't even know how to do it.

I'm like, all right, get me 100 of them bitty coins or whatever the hell they are. I love it. I love it. That's good advice. Daniel, thank you so much for your time. It's been awesome. Getting to know you and get to talk to you a little bit. If anyone listens to this podcast and they're like, I got to find that guy.

I got to follow that guy. Where can people find everything you got going on? Yeah. So the main spot is at Real Kid Poker on Twitter. In addition to that, as I said, you know, on my YouTube channel, not just the vlogs. I also do hand breakdowns, poker lessons, all for free. So if you want to learn how to play better, it's a free resource you can use on YouTube. Those are the two main spots. Pretty cool. And then hopefully soon, maybe TikTok. Talk to your agent.

If you do it and you grow, I'm going to take a little responsibility of that. I think you'll have millions of followers in no time. Daniel, thank you so much for your time. What a great episode of Trading Secrets. I have one last thing to say. I know and hope you're on the same page as me. Go bills. Go bills. This is the year, baby. This is the year. Thank you so much for coming on, Daniel. All right, buddy. Have a good one.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell to the Daniel Negranio episode. And what a perfect time to do it for a few reasons. One, David and I are live here in Rochester, New York, in his backyard. So if you hear some birds chirping, just know that the upstate New York birds are saying hello. And also, because this is the World Series of Poker. champion, the legend. And right now, whether you know it or not, the World Series of Poker is being played in Vegas. And we heard Daniel Legranio talk about the fact that he was staked $2 million.

We heard him talk about how he expected to perform. And we just saw a video that went viral of Daniel Neganio. He had a $250,000 buy-in. So that's what it costs to get in this tournament. It's the high-stakes World Series of Poker Tournament. And what happened was he busted out. He had two cards coming, David. There was only like a 2% chance of him losing the hand. He lost it. He chucked his camera. He stormed off. He went nuts.

That video went viral. I asked David to do some research on where he stands today with World Series of Pokers, since we heard from him right before he left. What stats you got? Well, it hasn't been great for our boy, Kid Poker. He was down 949,000 so far this summer.

Only four very small caches. And we heard him talk about. had two million in buy-ins. And so summer's not over yet, and it's not going too well. So time to make it back, but not a great start so far. So he's down this summer in World Series of Poker. He had the two million stake. Yeah. He's down 900-some thousand. 949,000.

Does he have any cashes at all? Four small cashes. They didn't give a dollar amount, but if it's small cashes, it's small cash. So usually small cash will be something correlated like to the actual buying or a little bit above it. Right. So maybe he's recouped just a little bit of that. But oh my God, that's bad. Well, he talked about doing the vlogs, and they said in the video,

like his vlogging camera behind him went flying. He chucked it against a wall, and then he, like, stormed out of the building. So, you know, he's been doing this forever, so he's been used to it. But for a guy to have that kind of reaction on that kind of bad beat, must mean it's something. Yeah, I mean, 250K.

We have 3%. I mean, Dave, like, it doesn't matter if you're a pro or the best at anything. When you're that competitive, like he said, that's one of his differentiators. And you lose to 3% likelihood of losing. Of course you're going to flip I would do the same thing.

I would have actually done much worse. Much worse. So would you have. And I also think that these guys probably get to a point in their poker careers where they're getting beat by, you know, newcomers or call them fans. And it's like almost disrespectful that poker's disrespecting them in this way. They're like,

he's been doing the shit forever. He feels like he should like get a better outcome in that situation. But like you said, it's luck sometimes. One of the quick things, though, is if you are a poker player, that's exactly what you want. because, of course, almost in all circumstances, there's some form of out. But if you've put your money in the pot with a 97% chance of winning, that's gold. That's a dream come true.

And the fact that it didn't is brutal. What else you got? What did you think about the episode? I have a question because he said, you know, he's made $48, $49 million in earnings. Okay. You know, we always talk about earnings per year, blah, blah, blah. Is that a net number? Or is that just like money that they won for a tournament?

So he wins $2 million in a World Series of poker tournament. And then his $22 net earnings is $2 million. But are they netting the losses? Like, yeah, it's great if you win a $5 million tournament. But for the other 11 months, if you've lost $2 million a month, are your earnings that year negative? Or are they only telling us, like, his net earnings, not his net earnings, his earnings from tournaments.

That's a good question. Honestly, I think I have to look it up. When you first asked the question, I thought for sure that it would have been the amount that he had won in tournaments that's published. Like Daniel McGrathiel took $250. 50,000, and that goes to it. But the fact they use the word net usually would mean that it is the difference between his

buy-ins versus what he had earned. So I'm going to say, final answer, it is how much he's earned after his buy-ins. Okay, okay. But that doesn't factor in cash games. So big difference. Tournaments, right, guys? You would take a dollar amount. You go into the tournament and then the top people get paid.

Cash game different. You bring a bunch of cash to the table like the Molly Bloom episode. If you haven't listened to it, go check it out. And then you will, you'll play, you can keep buying and keep buying and keep buying in. And that's a hold of an animal. Okay. This, we're going to get into your opinion here. You said the sport of poker.

Yeah. And when you're alluding to something in the episode. So I'm going to ask you the question. Is poker a sport? I think poker is a sport. Okay. Do you? I would like to talk about it a little bit.

Let's talk about it. Why do you think poker's a sport? Okay. I think it's a sport because it takes game theory. It takes strategy. There are, it takes actual physical endurance because you have to sit at a table for 18 hours plus of staying focused. It takes mental strength of managing your emotions through the good, the bad, the downturns, and the upside. It's tournament style where you're competing against many different people and one comes to be the victor based on gaming.

And so I would consider it a sport. Okay. I think that your description makes me want to believe it's more of a sport than I did five minutes ago. I think the tournament style, the endurance is true. When you do World Series of Poker, you're in those rooms for 12 hours a day, day after day after day after day after day. Like that one time he said he played 48 hours straight. Imagine sitting at table 48 hours straight. My rebuttal to you is going to be, well, is Blackjack a sport, is, you know, war a sport, is go fish a sport.

But they don't have these tournament setups where it's almost like leagues and series and things like that. So I'm going to, I'm not going to put my final answer in and concrete, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm more leaning towards that it's a sport. And they're the earnings behind it. It's almost like a PGA, like a W28 for tennis. It's almost like that setup. There you go. You guys tell us, in the comments, is poker a sport?

Go to Trading Secrets Instagram page. We're going to have more content. This whole recap, the video will be on the Trading Secrets Facebook page. Go make sure you follow there and give us five stars and just tell us, is poker a sport, yes or no. One thing that he alluded to a lot in his trading secret and at the start, I think the first and the last thing he said was bank role management. And, you know, for those of us who support Scamble, legally, we should know about bankroll management anytime you go to casino and you want to do it for a few hours and it's not just entertainment, you should have aware of what bankroll management is. If you're investing in the stock market, you should probably understand a little bit about, you know, your portfolio. But I just really would like you to go into that a little more, like bankroll management, give it in like certain settings.

What does it really mean, you know, dollars and cents example-wise? Okay, so think about what your bankroll would be. And let's say for poker, if you dedicated $10,000 to poker, that's your bankroll. The idea behind it is that if you're playing at a table with only $100, that's only 1% of your bankroll, $100 of $10,000 is only 1%. The emotional side behind it is if you lose $100 when you have $10,000, how do you feel about it? I feel fine. You feel fine.

You're not too rattled. You're not doing things like, I've got to go get it back. You're not acting crazy. So the idea is that you'll be emotionally well balanced if you're only playing with a smaller percent of your bankroll. Now, what if in one game you lost $6,000 and you only had $10 for the rest of the year? Graddled.

Be freaking out. I'd be throwing a camera like Daniel on the ground. How do I get it back? What do I do? Right? So the idea is that you're playing with a small percentage of what you can lose. And if you do that in trading,

it's the same idea where you're still, you will still stick to your strategy without going off the deep end of like freaking out emotionally. So is that something that you want to do like at the beginning of the year, like, hey, in 2023, I'm going to have a bankroll management for more investments of $10,000. I think it's a good idea based on what you can afford. You could do it month by month.

You could do it by week by the seasons, whatever. But knowing how much you get dedicate to something and then knowing how much you're applying to each time you execute on that is a great way to do it. So one thing I want to talk about, too, is the idea of sports gambling. We've seen how big it's gotten in our culture and in society and legalized across a bunch States, I didn't know in poker that you could buy stakes of players, that that was even a thing. And he even said, if you have a little skin in the game, you're going to watch it, you're

going to pay attention. That I thought was really cool. Do you think that we could see that in other individual sports, PGA, WTA and tennis, these different individual sports, auto racing, well, probably not because there's a whole team behind there. Yeah. Where, you know, let's say, you know, Ricky Fowler is going to buy off, sell off a share of the purse and maybe you get better odds on it because golf's a harder sport to win than like a more

one-on-one sport like poker. I think as, I think some of these leagues probably have things in place that you can't, but I think as we're seeing athletes, right, become individual brands. Like that we haven't seen and now it's happening where, especially in the NBA, these players aren't even part of their team anymore. It's their brand. That could change the game. That could do it. I remember when I golfed with Ben Crane, he was a professional golfer for 20 years. When he got started, I him how he afforded it. He got staked. He went around his community and people built up a fund of like $100,000, which gave him the money to go play in tournaments. And then based on his tournaments, if he won, he would throw a party for the investors and give him their percentage

back. I think we're going to see more and more of it where you can like buy players, buy equity and players. And like, imagine watching a game knowing that you have equity in a player's performance. It would be the coolest thing ever. Like their contract bonuses, right? If they hit their contract bonuses, then they get paid, what, like a $100 million bonus, and knowing that you have a percentage of the contract, so you would get like 1% of that, it would be electric. I would love to do it. I mean, everybody always says, like, oh, I want to own a team. I want to be a part of this.

Like, that would be so cool that, you know, you could buy a stake of Dustin Johnson, PGR or Live Tour for the next year or that tournament. I just think that would be like sports gambling, like, turned up to the next level. I love that. That's it. I think we're on to something here because right now that's the big thing

like even a lot of ads I do I try to correlate with brands that give people the masses the access that the like was once only for you know the largest companies or the high net worth investors imagine if you can make

the ownership of a team even if it's a small little itty-bitty percentage like available for everyone well the Green Bay Packers are technically like you can oh yeah you can buy shares right but I don't know if

if the value of the team goes up year, if your share becomes more. Value, you can you reshare it? We'll come back on that one. Yeah, I think we've got to come back on that one. Have you found your crypto yet? No, we're going to come back on that one too.

I got to find my golf game before I find my crypto. Oh, we had a golf out of yesterday. David, the guy's the guy's a performer, but yesterday wasn't his day. Well, you know, I think we might have some clips of that that might serve on some social media channels, but... Yeah, why don't you go to the Facebook page? We'll drop some in there. It was good.

There's a lot of antics, a lot of club throwing. I will say that, well, Danny and McGarano throws his phone. I can throw my clubs every once in a while. The difference is he's throwing it for a million dollars. I'm throwing it for 10 cents. Two bucks a whole. Two bucks a whole. I think the way that I want to end is just really, like, for all our listeners, like,

I know a lot of people might not follow poker, might not play poker, might not know who Daniel McGrano is. The goal for this podcast is to just educate and translate, you know, different ways that you can apply things from these successful people in their fields to your life. So I think I just want to touch on some of these, like, really relatable things. that he talked about that you could bring and see your business life. And I'm just going to throw a couple out there and you can kind of touch on it. I mean, obviously bankroll management and the translation to the market, I thought that

was really, really impressive. The body language tells, right? You know, if you're in an interview and you're tight and you're lacking eye contact, it shows you're not confident in your cards in that situation, in your abilities. Like the people who are most sure, they just, they can talk, they can talk without thinking. Actions in accordance to goals. I loved how he was talking about. he would book the flight on the last day of the final table he would pack the suit that he wanted to wear

just those like manifesting actions and then uh the last one that i have here was like i really liked the deloading process like when he really talked about being in a really intense environment or situation or really taking the time to delode and go through what worked what didn't what did i feel when this happened why did i feel this way um those are a couple of things that i had out there um that i just wanted to get your opinion yeah i mean the deloading thing's huge because Everyone that's come on this podcast that's found super success has always talked about, oh, I failed, I failed. But if you fail and you can't actually really process what it was, then how can you get better? The fact that he was deloading is brilliant.

I think his discipline is unbelievable. The fact, when he was talking about him recognizing, I think I've even started to realize this a little bit, that he's an introverted or extrovert. Like when his batteries get drained, he loves to be with people at dinner. He enjoys it, but it drains his mental batteries. I find that at times I find that if I'm in like larger groups now and I don't really like know everyone or there's only a small subset of people in the group

I really want to spend time with those things I enjoy them but they drain me like the energy output and the fact he recognized that the overly competitive the discipline thing I love those

and then the psychology is amazing like just paying attention to the tone of someone's language like are you when you're telling a story I pay attention to this closely If I'm telling a story and I have someone one-on-one and I've lost their attention, like they start looking at their phone and I start doing something, I need to work on like how I'm injecting and keeping people's attention

and grabbing them back with my eyes. Like that was a big one for it. We've talked a lot about our podcast guests that we've had on the podcast. And sometimes I'll listen to an episode. I say, oh, this person like a great guest, not a good, like great guest, not a good podcaster. You say that all the time. And then the difference like Daniel McGrano, great podcaster. great podcaster. What's the difference? Really interesting, to the point, no run-ons,

never talks for more in two, three minutes, right? Answers the question. Answers the question, has good inflections, like he's got good energy, and all of a sudden, it's like those 50-minute podcasts, I feel like they're 15 minutes, instead of the half an hour podcast, I feel like they're two hours. We get some of those people, and what's interesting is some of them are in fields where their communication is imperative, and they just rant, like the editing will have to do because they won't answer the question or they'll answer it in 40 minutes. be like, what do you do it?

I know what you're saying when you lose like when you feel like that feeling you've lost someone's eye contact they're on their phone. I recap the episodes in the notes

and they'll have answer the question I'll have what I need in my notes and then I'm already on my phone while the episode's playing answering text back, checking my email and then finally you hear that they're done talking and you're ready for the next question.

So it's like these takeaways are really impressive and important and as a hockey coach my delode management all the time like I can't wait when the game's over to go watch film. Like I suck a golf. but I still on the car at home

will go over every shot. I hit every hole. Good shot, good shot, bad shot, bad situation. You know, if you can do that in your work, left, professional life, like social life, relationship life, like that's a huge takeaway. Yeah, great call.

One other thing I'll say, I'm going to put this out to the viewers out there. You talked about communication. You talked about going on and on. One guest I had, his name is Josh Flagg, if you know him. He literally only responded with like one to six letter, to six words.

Like, it was the most outrageous. podcast I've ever had so bad that I've immediately after. I was like, we can't release it. He can't release it. So he's for a million dollar listing, extremely successful, but like wouldn't even talk. I'm wondering, though, if the viewers would find it entertaining. Like, would you find that podcast that was so, in my opinion, outrageous. Entertaining to release.

So if you would, let us know. Maybe I'll put a clip or two from Josh Flagg on the Facebook group and the Trading Secrets, Instagram. Go check it out. And in the reviews, give us five stars and say release or do you. don't release the Josh Flagg episode. I don't know if it'll be a shit show or if it'll be entertaining. I mean, I need to go listen to it now. I feel like my reaction to it would be

like, I'm curious. Because it might hit. Unbelievable. It might hit. He sat down when he sat down before it even started. He looked at me and he goes, how many downloads do you get? That's exactly what he said. Power move. I was like, wow. You should have done your research before we started this. Well, you got Josh Flag, a million-dollar listing. You got Jason

Oppenheim. Jason Oppenheim's coming on. We got Amanda Hirsch, who just had all the Kardashians on. So she talks about how she got them on and what her relationship with the Kardashians are. We got pilot Pete coming up. We got auto airline issues galore.

Pete gives us the perspective from the pilot. We got a lot. We got some people from Summerhouse coming on. Yep. Some Bachelor in Paradise people. We got Kyle Cook. The list goes on. It's getting better too.

So remember to give us five stars. Remember to follow us on Trading Secrets, Facebook group. Remember to follow us on Trading Secrets, Instagram. David, do you got anything you want to leave us with? When we do Kyle, cook we got to get some of those lover boys on set maybe do a little review and if you haven't seen the review that we've done for the faux uh make sure you go check that on our facebook page j had the other ones yesterday that i reviewed that you didn't have and he can confirm that my readings are very

accurate your ratings are fired we're going to have to do another review david you want to leave the viewers with a little inspiration just a random life inspiration you got anything oh man what do you think some life inspiration. Well, we're sitting out here on my back porch with my best friends doing a podcast. It's a beautiful day. It's been a beautiful weekend here with you. And life is good. So cherish the times that you get with the people that you get to spend the time with. We're all in the hustle and bustle these days. But hope you enjoy listening and hope you can take one or two of these things and find them inspiring and motivating and put them into your life. And when you get the chance to spend time with loved ones and friends, make sure you do that because it's the best part

of the day. I love that you said that right now. Grandpa Lenny, my grandpa's not doing well. He's pretty much on his deathbed and there's so many takeaways I've had from from seeing him and putting that time in with him and we'll probably do a full episode on that just so many things to think about but the one thing that I'll never forget is when you're in that position talking to someone you love all you're thinking about are those memories and talking about on the golf course at the dinner you did the vacation that's it it's the time and memory spent together at the end of the day that's all you got love that life advice thank you for tuning into this episode of Trading Secrets. Hopefully it was another episode you couldn't afford to miss, and we

will see you next Monday. I hope you guys had an amazing July 4th. Happy birthday, America. Thank you.