Trading Secrets - 6: Behind the Scenes with Shark Tank's Kevin O'Leary aka Mr. Wonderful's Portfolio & Tricks

Episode Date: June 21, 2021

Mr. Wonderful believes he has taught the sharks everything they know from negotiating to structuring! In this episode, we go behind the scenes with Kevin O’Leary as he explains his rules of investing, negotiating, and even day to day living.  He tells us how he got on the show, how much he has to invest every season and how Shark Tank has changed his life.  From Business 101 to expert level, he provides a lesson for each level…lessons you can’t afford to miss! Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets, and today we are honored. We are discussing all things. We're talking business, money, and media with what some would call the shark of all sharks. Now, his nickname may be a little contrary to his TV. they call him the one and only Mr. Wonderful. And so today I'm jumping in the shark cage with, you know, a brutally honest and probably the most aggressive negotiator on Shark Tank, Mr. Kevin O'Leary.

One thing I think is kind of important is that we talk a little bit about like where, you know, Kevin came from. Now, I talked to him in the episode that we're going to, we're going to open the bell real quick here. I talked to him about how we got on Shark Tank and when he made his TV debut and we get in the weeds about the money behind it, et cetera. But what's interesting is that Kevin actually co-founded this company called Soft Key Software Products. And it's his tech company.

And what they did is they sold software that was geared towards education. So family, youth, children, education, entertainment. And then their strategy was to acquire several rival companies and then changed its name to the learning company, which inevitably was the key to Kevin's success. Now, he's had so much success. Like, it's incredible the shit he's done. But he was acquired by that little company called Mattel. Remember Mattel? You know, every game you had as a kid, said Mattel.

So in 99, 1999, they were acquired. That's what made O'Leary a multi-multimillionaire. And so Mattel acquired soft key products, which then, of course, we just established, became the learning company for $4.2 billion freaking dollars. Now, his projects from there are endless. That's a cool thing about Kevin, is that he made his millions. he didn't stop. He just kept going and going. And we get into all the different ventures that he

is currently involved in. But let's talk a little bit about Shark Tank and, you know, peel the onion back a little bit. So Shark Tank's been around for 12 seasons, over 260 episodes. And they're actually in the midst of working on season 13. And Kevin O'Leary has been there from the start. Like he has literally been there from day one. And what's wild is we get into what got him on TV. And it's pretty wild because it involves some crying and also it doesn't end there because he even tells a story about how he was first recognized in the airport and literally just called straight out, oh, you're the asshole that and I'll let that story finish. But the shark taking numbers, let's go through them. So in the first 222 episodes, there were 895 pitches, 499 deals

in about $144 million invested in capital. Now, Some of these statistics come from Haley TechO. So I did some research on it, but 56% of the contestants successfully make a deal. And what's discouraging is that women are underrepresented on this show. And they secure smaller deals when looking at every single deal. So that's something that is important and bring to the forefront. But the average deal amount is $286,000. And the average equity given up is 20%.

That's a huge controversial topic, actually, of Shark think. People think that the sharks are taking too much equity. And so I challenge Kevin with that. And his response is fascinating. Now, the two industries that have been the most popular pitched are, think about them. What might they be? Food and fashion. And right now, what they would say in 10 seasons, 2009, 2019, if you're studying the analytics, Mark Cuban, is the most prolific dealmaker with 151 deals in 10 seasons. However, Mr. Wonderful, says, that all roads lead back to him and that he taught the sharks everything they know.

You'll hear all about that. And he also gets into the fact that he has the biggest in best exit in all of Shark Tank history. Now, because we got Kevin, let's talk a little bit about him. So in 10 seasons, 2009 to 2019, he did 75 deals, invested 16 million freaking buckaroos.

On average, his deal size is about 300. $232,000. His equity percentage is usually 24%. And the valuation of companies he goes for is about $2.6 million. So what's interesting is if you look at all the companies and industries that he is heavily concentrated in, you would think that maybe like software and tech would be at the top. It's not. It's actually lifestyle and home. 20% of the companies he invests in are in lifestyle and home. And like I said, this interview is wild. it's fast-paced. We get into everything from social media to Bitcoin. He opens up his whole portfolio, tells us everything about where he thinks his portfolio is, why it's there,

and what's coming next. He talks about products that he's invested in, and he breaks down everything from like his personal life to the money he made, to the decisions he made, and how he made it. So it doesn't matter where you're listening from, whether you're a male, female, whether you're lost in your career, you think you got it all figured out. Whether you don't have a dollar to your name or you're a multimillionaire, I could tell you there's stuff that you'll learn in this podcast. Wanted to why? Because I quote him right here. Mr. Wonderful said in this podcast, I should be invoicing Mark Cuban. He even talks about how he gets rid of majority of his commercial real estate portfolio and where, this is crazy, what he thinks malls will eventually be.

I was what? What? He's clear. He's clear. literally a forward thinker. And I tested and I'm on some of his philosophies. But it's tough to test Mr. Wonderful because he always has an answer. Now, one of the best questions I proposed to him was I had Barbara Corcoran come on. I said,

Barbara, I got a question for you. You got one shark to partner with. You go on Mark Cuban? Are you going Kevin O'Leary? Her response was, do I want a billionaire or a bald-headed guy who wishes he was a billionaire? You can't make this stuff.

up. And if you think that I had that on video and audio and didn't present it to Kevin O'Leary to see his reaction, you're out of your mind. So stay tuned to his reaction, his response, and then we recap it with the voice of the viewer David Ardwin, who gets my take on it all. So guys, thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets. If you could, please remember to give us five stars, subscribe. And here we go. Let's open the bell with the one and only. We're all lead back to Mr. Wonderful, Kevin O'Leary. Thank you so much for being here, Kevin. We appreciate it. Thank you. Wonderful intro. I like that.

You like that. You know, I heard you're a Toronto guy. I grew up in Buffalo. So I figure one way we could start this off because 90% of this conversation you're going to dominate and lead is I got to chirp you. I heard that you escape from the nice cold Canadian weather to go to Miami because your skin's not thick enough anymore. Is that true or false? Well, that's true. But, you know, I moved down to Boston in the early 90s where I had my family there. We kind of grew up in Boston. And then I'm not a big fan of the noreaster.

I was actually born in Montreal where winter's really cold. And, you know, I grew up in countries like Cyprus and Ethiopia and Tunisia because my dad worked the United Nations. And so we used to move every two years. And I became sort of a warm-blooded reptile in those days. And I really, really like the ocean because I grew up on it on the island of Cyprus, a beautiful place, idealic in some ways. And I just wanted to return to the water. Miami is the melting pot of America. You've got German, French, Cuban, South American cultures all coming

together. I live right on the beach. There's sand in my elevator. And I love it here. I go out for dinner at midnight and everything's still open. That's my kind of scene. That is awesome. We spent some time in Miami for the Super Bowl of last year, but we were also in Super Bowl this year at Tampa Bay. And it's just there's nothing like it. Absolutely. I mean, St. Patty's Day is also my wedding anniversary, so I tend to have one heck of an evening. And we don't hold back. So I'm feeling a little crispy around the edges today. That's what we like to hear. So we're preparing for this podcast last night, right? And we're going through all the ins and out to Kevin O'Leary. And we found it fascinating. David actually

coaches a youth hockey team. So he's got 16, 18-year-olds, number one youth hockey team in the country there. So they come from all over. I have parents that are in their 60s. And from the 16-year-olds to the 60-year-olds, they all know you and we know you. And what we found interesting is we said to yourself, okay, how did Kevin make his money? And we're like, how do we not know that? We know all about them. We've seen them on every season, and we don't know that. And we started thinking, it's kind of crazy. Lightbulb went off, the power of TV. The fact that you've 20 years, venture capital, multimillionaire, done billion dollar deals with Mattel. The list goes on, potentially in politics. The list goes on. And what we know right now from a high level is the

legacy of Kevin O'Leary on TV. And I want to get into that. But the first thing I want to ask you is, you actually bridge the gap between business and Shark Tank? What was the process like of getting on? Was it something you were seeking or was it something that fell into your lap? You know, I remember the day it occurred years and years ago. I was working in a private equity firm called Thomas H. Lee because they were my largest shareholder in Mattel and we just done the exit and, you know, we sold the company for $4.2 billion and I was looking for a new gig. I didn't want to stop working. I took some time off obviously, but it was a massive liquidity event. I said, well, how can I deploy my capital? How can I start investing in it. So I took a seat as sort of a junior partner, as it were, inside that

firm. And at the same time, you know, you referenced Buffalo, Canada was opening up digital licenses to over-the-top television. This is years ago. And the only way you could get a license was to be a Canadian. So T.H. Lee said, I mean, look, why don't you go up there and bid for everything? Because we don't know what's going to work out. And there was all kinds of the dog food channel, this channel, that channel, that channel, the movie channel. They said, bid everything. Because you're Canadian, you can own 51%, we'll back you, but we'll fund you for the rest. So I cruised up there, and there was a network there called BNN. It's now called BNN Bloomberg. And this woman named Janice Mackey Frere, was, who's now a very famous reporter, interviewed me about this, and she was really

aggressive, saying, you know, you're just a guy coming up from the States to try and take advantage. I said, hey, hold on. I'm a Canadian citizen. Here's my passport. And I'm going to, and I'm an investor, and I want to buy these licenses. So we got into a really, you know, I'd never really done any television. I'm sitting at this desk, and she's going after me, and I just pushed back. And all of a sudden, she turns around and starts crying. And I thought, whoa, what happened here? And the producer came out, the show was over and said, that was fantastic.

The phone lines were lighting up. Can you come back tomorrow? I said, what? He said, no, no, you're here in town all week. Come back tomorrow. Let's do it again. And it was the power of television of just telling the truth and not knowing the camera was on. And Janice and I are very close friends now.

I wonder if she remembers the event because I certainly do. But she is now a number one reporter for NBC somewhere in the Middle East, I think. She reports on wars, a terrific reporter. But it was the moment of television of just being honest and telling the truth that really took this thing off. And that was the beginning. The next thing I know Mark Burnett's calling me up saying, we're looking for a real asshole for a new show called Dark Tank and you're the guy. And we need an asshole on this thing. And I said, I'm your man.

I just tell the truth. And that was the beginning of a crazy career. Front and center. And I want to dig more into that. But I think a lot about, you know, TV and reputation legacy. So I was on The Bachelorette. And I done all these things in my life. 10 years, corporate banking, NBA, all this stuff. My reputation literally lives between the fortunate to have a million plus following social media and the eyes of those million people on 10 episodes of me dating, getting dumped in Thailand, not being able to go to the fantasy suite. And my current girlfriend is a former bachelor's. So what I trying to do is change that legacy because of the power of TV to your point. That's what it's

created. And that's why I'm doing a show similar to this. But I'm curious your thoughts, being on it for so long, seeing what it's like post and pre-fame as it relates to TV and post and business success. Why do you think it is that TV is so powerful? And specifically to you, how has it changed brand opportunities, leverage for negotiation and your future outlook of what's next for Kevin O'Leary? It's a combination of television and social media. the majority of television actually gets seen on social media when it's redistributed. And that's the power of the medium. But being on television gives you a chance to directly communicate with millions of people.

I didn't comprehend the power of Shark Tank for the first three years. And then it just exploded. You know, I remember the moment that it all changed because I was sitting in Boston, Logan, and with my daughter and my wife, I think it was Logan, I'm pretty sure it was. and we were flying somewhere, and I said to my wife, give me a minute, I'm just going to go to the men's room. And so I went in there, and there was only one other guy at the urinals, and he was over to my right.

I'll never forget this. And he kept looking over at me. And he said, you know, are you that guy, Kevin O'Leary in Shark Tank? And I said, yeah. He said, you're an asshole. I said, why would you say that? He said, because last night on Shark Tank, you took control of a brand new company.

You took 51% from those guys. And it's the first round. That's ridiculous. That's just greed. And I said, wait a second. Wait a second. They had no knowledge of what they were doing other than they had a great idea. I'm going to build the infrastructure.

I'm going to take all the risk. I'm financing the business. You know, I said to the guy, look, a lot of business gets done in bathrooms, but not today, sir. I mean, I'll do what I want with my money. And so we got into it, you know, at the end of the day. And he walks outside and he says to my wife and daughter, you couldn't have known that, you know, they were with me. and he says to Linda, that asshole, Kevin O'Leary's in the men's room. And she said, I know.

Sounds like you have met the perfect wife to support that. Yeah, I know. But, you know, I just think that was the beginning of the whole Shark Tank phenomenon. It's the first time anybody ever recognized me. And it's just gone global now. It's gone crazy. But you're right. You experienced it.

I know what happened to you on TV. You blew up. And I think that's fantastic. And you use the platform to grow and, you know, build a franchise around your brand. That is exactly what I've done. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. I mean, I think you should have told that guy he's an asshole for trying to steer a conversation while you got your hammer out taking a, taking a piss. But, you know, we'll let that one go. I just tell the truth. I just tell the truth. Why is, you know, telling the truth being an asshole. I mean, that's the

difference. Authenticity sells. And I want to actually think about that. You look at the line, for me, at least from a TV guy, I look at the lineup, where the sharks sit. And it's very evident to me. You're front and center. Every single time, you're in the center. You're quarterback. In my eyes, I consider you the host of the show. So I'm curious from your perspective. Is that the case? Is that planned? Because it looks like you're quarterbacking every conversation. You're getting in the weeds. And even though you got a guy calling you an asshole in the middle of the airport, there's a reason for that. And that's because it sells. Is that by accident? Or is that planned? And is that really your role? You know, I think these things

happen as the show develops. I mean, obviously, we've been working together for 13 years. And, have to respect every single one of those sharks. They are self-made. Every one of them was an operator. Everybody has a specialty in one sector or another. And that's the uniqueness of Shark Tank in the context that no matter what deal comes forward, somebody there knows that space inside out or was involved in it in some other period. So we're able to pick apart any deal and peel that onion. But you've got to think about what we're doing there. In my view, it's the number one venture capital firm on earth. Number one, everybody's an operator, not just some kid that came out of business school. We have billions of dollars collectively, obviously,

and on top of that, we have hundreds of millions of eyeballs. And so the real power of Shark Tank, if you distill it, is that we can help reduce customer acquisition costs in almost any company. We're able to, you know, if I invested in a company, I turn on my social media platform. I've got millions of followers on all the platforms. And I start talking about my company in the context of why I invested in it. And people tend to try those products and services, and I reduce customer acquisition costs sometimes for zero. And the number one reason companies fail in the first 36 months in America, 80% fail because they're never able to get their customer acquisition costs below the lifetime value. I can fix that for them. And that's the power of the shark tank.

But in terms of how that show happens, we've stopped looking at those cameras a decade ago. We don't, we're competing for deals. We don't see the cameras anymore. And, you know, it's a very stressful moment for the. entrepreneur, but if they can't get through shark tank and get through me or any other shark, the real world's going to eat them alive. So it's a fantastic testing ground. Competing for deals is something I want to get into, and I think it is a great testing ground. But one of the things I thought about is because what you just pretty much said is

customer acquisition costs are reduced as a result of working with sharks and you're getting, you're financing and backing and the list goes on. But what I think would be interesting is a show where you have monster influencers, 10, 20 million, 30 million plus influencers, where they're actually getting equity for trade in exactly what you're saying, bringing the deal to their platforms and then selling it to reduce customer acquisition costs. Because I don't know if people do know, but the amount of money right now that companies are throwing at social media, people that have platforms is astronomical. And the reason it's astronomical is for precisely what you said. It's a better way to get a higher ROI for marketing efforts. And that being said, there's all these

insights. It's not throwing a billboard up or a TV commercial or something in a magazine. They know who you are, your demographic. They have more information on the people following you than anything before. And it brings me to the next question and point, because you already alluded to the fact that, yes, television's powerful. But television also, you're taking these clips and you're putting them on social media. And I'm just curious how your perception of just how business has changed now that you're exposed this new generation. Because we're in a world, you had just said, kids out of business school coming in with their textbooks at you. We're at a world now where you got freaking 16-year-old kids doing these dances like this.

on TikTok. And they're making more than these kids will make in their entire lifetime with a Harvard MBA. So I'm just curious, you've seen a lot in your time from TV, not to aid you, but TV when it didn't have color. To now some of these shit shows 17-year-olds dance around like idiots making millions of dollars all because of the forum of social media. I'm just curious your opinion on how the business climate has changed drastically with this and where you think it's headed. Yeah, you know, that is a great question. And I've always thought one of the best indexes to glean data from was the 100,000 applications that Shark Tank gets each season,

of all these innovations being created by entrepreneurs, because they are the nascent beginning of new business directions. So if you're gonna recognize trends, you're gonna see it there, and I will tell you, there's two things emerging that I find so fascinating in terms of this year's crop, because we're casting right now. And I don't get to see the deals

before they show up in the Shark Tank. So I can only tell you last year's index, what really mattered, because we went through that taping. And here's what I would say that's going to happen. Two big factors. Number one, the companies that are getting funded or are getting initiative and getting momentum

are ones that have a mission for sustainability. Some kind of reason that they help consumers solve a big problem in their lives. It's not a marketing strategy anymore. People don't want plastic stuff. They're concerned about the environment. They're concerned about sustainability. They have their own personal mandates. And these are consumers at every age,

group. So you get a company like, here's a company called Blue Land, all right? They take cleaning fluids, whether it be, you know, surface cleaner or whatever, and they crystallize it in a patented process. So you can get this ship to you instead of a bottle made a plastic full of water and you can drop it into this sustainable, reusable container. And it's just like a fizzy and it forms a cleaning fluid. Their mission is to eliminate plastic. Now, they had no sales when they showed up on Shark Tank. The minute they aired, it exploded direct to consumer. And it just exploded. There's so many people that were interested in what they were doing that their sales are at an $80 million run rate right now. So this is going to be a phenomenally

successful business. But the other reason that's successful, they originally were planning to roll out in retail, big box retailers, March 15th last year when the pandemic shut down, everything. They went direct to consumer model. So the two trends I'm looking for when I roll out dollars now is number one. Am I investing? in a team that understands social media so they can go direct to consumer and they figured out their customer acquisition costs already. And number two, what's the sustainability mandate? What's the mission? Because every consumer wants both and I want to invest in companies that have figured both of those out. So if you're not on a sustainability mandate, I have no interest

in putting dollars into you. And so that is because I know what consumers want and I see these trends and my high growth companies have those mandates and they are focused on sustainability. So that is a big new trend, and it's going to change a lot about how people invest. Direct-to-consumer, sustainability mandate, and then, David, come in for your question, but I'm just curious. Change is like the only concept I feel like in the world we live in. If I asked you a year ago, would you say that that trend was still the same trend, or is this something that's relatively new? And then my question to you, Kevin, is how, after all these years, again, not to age you, but all these years, what are you doing to actually know that that's a trend? I see it in

dollars. I look at cash flow. I look at the companies that, have a mandate around sustainability versus ones that don't. I look at fund flows. Who's investing in what? The majority of investment dollars now is going into sustainability mandates. And that's because the consumer wants that. It was not the same a year ago. A year ago, it was like a marketing thing. You say, oh, you know, I really care about the environment and everything I do is in the environment. But if you were bullshitting, nobody bought your product. They can still bullshit a mile away. And so if you really have that mission, those are the companies that are getting accelerated from the investment point of view and the revenue point of view because people actually give a shit. They care and they want the companies that they support to care too. And if you don't or you're trying to make it some kind of a marketing strategy, it's not going to work. And I'm not going to invest in you anyways. I meet these CEOs. I see it in their mandates. They are passionate about what they're doing. And I think the consumer connects with them and they get to form these direct to consumers. super relationships talking about what they can do to provide and fulfill on that mandate of

sustainability. Those are the companies that are going to be successful. It makes sense. And when you correlate that passion, you're actually seeing it with your own eyes and your own intuition. And then from that, you're seeing the numbers come in at levels that they haven't come in from a cash flow perspective. Obviously, that defines a trend in the eyes, Kevin O'Leary. David, what did you have? Did you happen to be the shark that invested in that product because that is elite product placement? Of course, it's great product placement. And yes, it was a really hard-fought deal. Everybody was looking at it. And I said, guys, this one's for me. And, you know, the big problem was their valuation was already so high. They'd already had Comcast ventures.

They already had all these VCs in there. It was a ridiculously high valuation. And the only way to solve it was in that magic way that Mr. Wonderful does with a royalty. There you go. And of course, I got my capital back in days when the sales exploded. Plus, I'm an equity shareholder. But I was, I was willing to take less equity because I had been guaranteed of royalty. And no other, you know, I teach the sharks everything they know. They don't even know how to put the structures together. So I should be invoicing Mark Cuban right now, showing him how to get his money back through royalties. Are you going to invoice me?

If this podcast blows up, we get like 100K of ad deals just for this episode. Do I owe royalty to you? Absolutely not. I keep all the royalties. That's where they go. There you go. As I like to say, all deals, all roads lead back to Mr. Wonderful. That's what happens.

I freaking love it. We have a stat on our research that says you're the king of non-standard deals, additional terms, royalties, contingencies, lines of credit, et cetera. So that is, that's what makes you, Mr. Wonderful. Absolutely. It's so true. There's truth in advertising. It's consistent.

All right. So we have, we're about halfway through this. And we've talked a lot about social media. I'm going to ask you one more thing about social media. And then when I get in to some of the specifics of Shark Tank, your investments, with social media, all the forums you're on because you're blowing up. Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, subscriber base is consistent. And it's most of them are all over half.

a million, outrageously impressive. Which one do you find the most rewarding? And then which one do you find to be the most lucrative? That's a great question. The one that I really blow up on fastest was LinkedIn as an influencer. I'm at 2.8 million, I think, right now. And that's a different crowd. That's a different crowd. They're interested in the debate around financial issues, around job creation issues, around investment issues. It's not so much a promotional platform to push product. That's not what it's really there for. But when I get into a debate regarding crypto, for example, or sustainability or, you know, career path, that's a fantastic platform. And it just continues to grow like crazy in terms of growth.

So that's the way I look at that one. Clearly, YouTube, which is nascent for me, I just started. I think we're at $400,000 on that now. That's, you know, obviously a very, it's a partnership with, as you well know. And we get product placement in there. The way I do the product placement thing is if I don't use the product myself, I will not take a placement deal. It just feels creepy to me to do that. I want to, you know, do I wear that watch?

Do I wear that tea? Do I use that, you know, sunscreen? Whatever it is, it's going to be something I use. And I'm proud to say I use it and I'm why I use it. And I think that's a far more credible way to do product placement. I don't want to be some kind of a cheap date where anybody can just pay me to promote. own stuff, that's not who I am. I'd rather, if it's a smaller company, it's an entrepreneurial company, I'm far more interested in promoting their product if I use it to help them reduce

their customer acquisition costs, because that's what I do all day long anyways. So that platform's very good. Twitter is a very, a lot of hate crap going on on there, and yet they're cleaning it up. I think doing a really good job. Instagram's just pure fun. I mean, the stuff we do together the sharks together on Instagram and all the stuff we do is just crazy fun and yet you can monetize that too you guys are well aware of it the clubhouse thing is starting to blow up too i you know i do a lot of those um there's security issues with that some of the some of the television networks will not engage right now because they're they don't feel that it's secure enough so there's there's all these platforms are just swirling around and you build your brand on these things but the one

thing i've learned you have to tell the truth on these things people smell bullshit miles away and the minute they think you don't have cred you're finished you're done i'll remember that i'd said it on this pod before i'll say it again dave portnoy who i think has done a great job barstool sports founder of branding himself says if you endorse everything you endorse nothing and i think there's so much too then it perfectly aligns with what you're saying with everything that you just mentioned all your platforms and your different ventures are you busier now with all your platforms and in the year 2021 than you were with a learning company in the early 90s? That's a great question. The truth is yes. I am so busy that Nancy, who I work

with, it's sort of, you know, we have all these different businesses that we have to manage. And so I break my day and I get up at 5 o'clock in the morning and I get on to the Peloton and then I have also elliptical that I want to use. And in my routine and stretching. And when I'm doing that, I'm listening to the European and Asian bond reports because of the whole thing I'm involved in financial services. I got O shares that's got a billion and a half dollars under management in it. I've got a whole bunch of investments in FinTechs. I mean, and so I have to know that stuff because I do a lot of work with CNBC, you know, halftime report, squat box, the other shows. You've got to read the research. You can't just go on there, not knowing what the stories of the

day are. You look like an idiot. So that's. I do that for the first two hours of the day, and then it's broken up into 30-minute segments or one-hour segments, you know, depending on like the thing we're doing right now. I only do things I want to do that makes sense to me, you know, in terms of maintaining my core aspect of what I do is to support my 36 portfolio companies. They're every different sector. I'm in technology and wireless charging. I've got gym equipment manufacturing, climate or, you know, sustainably friendly insecticide.

that's a big business for me. Love Pop reading cards. Well, we're just talking about love. I have Popper. They send me stuff all the time. I love those. I use them all the time. No joke.

Let's just do a product place right now. Let's do a product placement. Love pop reading cards. Number one, this company is on fire. Is that a shark tank investment? It is. And when they came on, the craziest story, these two guys come on. The graduates of MIT and Harvard, and they make, basically, they make marine boats

that kill you robotically. I mean, that's what they do. Sure. And here they are talking about, you know, greeting cards. Grading cards. Grandma will love it. I said, that is like you're building, you're building war machines and now you want to go into grading cards?

And they said, yeah, I'm in. I got to give credit to the marketing team there because they send Caitlin and I, they send us these cards all the time. And, you know, I'm not saying this to be braggadocious, but when we do ads on our stories and stuff charging thousands of thousands of dollars, here we are with our pop cards, free ad placement, nonstop. Like, cool, look at this. So the job is well done.

I love it. You know, here's, that's another digital pivot story because the greeting card industry was primarily retail, was an emotional purchase at spur of the moment, you know, a holiday, birthday, Mother's Day, whatever. And it was all, you know, in high traffic locations. Today, that company, Love Poc, is 79% direct to consumer. That's an incredible change at full margin. I mean, think about it.

They're not paying distribution charges or the retailer or, whatever it is they used to pay. So they have done that. And I think there's such disruptors in their space. When they hit $100 million, someone's going to take them out. You know, that's what's going to happen. And it happens all my companies. Between $15 million, we got the SPACs chasing them. We got the private equity guys. We have the head fund guys. And a lot of these entrepreneurs are just getting going to say, I don't want to sell yet. I want to wait. I want to make it bigger. And I have the longest patience for them because, you know, I've got 36 of them. In any one time, it's like the drama. somebody's doing something great, something's blowing up to the negative on some other company.

It's every day. So I got a great team working with these people. And you talked about exits. And I'm curious, and correct me if this number is wrong, with the research I did said that there's about $8.5 million that you've invested at Shark Tank. And I'm curious from that perspective, when you look at exits and you look at your portfolio from Shark Tank investments, two questions. One, do you have to go into the season with a commitment to producers that you will invest in a certain amount of companies? And my second question to that, is do you go in with a budget saying this is how much I'm willing to invest over the course of this season? No little, no more. The answer to both those questions is no. There's no mandate

where you have to come in with a certain amount of money and I have no budget. What I do have is, you know, five million followers, a show that reaches 100 million eyeballs and a bunch of incredibly interesting entrepreneurs. Why wouldn't I invest? I'm very fortunate that I have a lot of capital to put to work and right now even more than I've ever had because I've been selling down my commercial real estate portfolio, down from 31% of my net worth down to eight. So I've got a lot of cash to put to work. And I, you know, these are sectoral changes that are occurring because of what happened in digitization of the economy. I don't need as much commercial real estate because of the technology we're using right now. So I wanted to reduce my exposure to it. And I think it's

going to be less valuable in the next couple of years because 15% of the, you know, base of employees that used to work in accounting or compliance or logistics, the people used to work in little cubicles. They don't want to go back to headquarters anymore. They want to work from their homes where they're raising kids or taking care of elderly parents or just they don't want to commute. And so I don't want to own that office tower in Boston anymore because the law firm in it is reducing its space by a third. So if you used to trade it at a 4.6 cap, it's going to trade a six cap. Someone's going to lose 15, 20 percent. I don't want that to be me. So I'm a seller in that space. And now I'm trying to redeploy capital into the new America, the 2.0. And that's

sort of the sectoral changes that occur. But on Shark Tank, listen, if I could put more money to work, I would. The one deal that was the largest exit in Shark Tank history was mine, it was plated. It came on the show, their valuation was too high, nobody did a deal. I ran into them two years later. I did a deal with them then. And then all of a sudden, Amazon bought Whole Foods and Albertsons and all the other grocers with Brick and Mortar wanted digital platforms. So it sold to AlbuSons for $320 million. You know, it covered everything I'd ever done on Shark Tank and then some. And so that just gives you an example. You only need one good deal to cover all your mistakes. One big one will do it. You've already talked about kind of the new change, the new normal, and you've alluded to

it, even with your Peloton, the efficiencies of doing things from home and doing them quicker. Now you've alluded to work from home, offloading your commercial properties. Did you offload that prior or during the pandemic? And is that the view you see? Do you think we'll see less retail office space and mixed use? I have this rule that my mother taught me actually in portfolio management. Never let one stock become more than 5% of your portfolio and never let a sector become more than 20% of your portfolio. So I was already in the process three years ago, starting because I got that my real

estate really went up in value, my commercial real estate. And it was now at 31% of my net worth. So the rule of diversity would tell you to sell it down to 20. So we were in the process of doing that. These are relatively illiquid assets. So you got a, you know, there's a transaction fee. There's a tax component to all this stuff. And some of these were spinning off, you know, four or five, six percent cash flow.

So it was tough to sell it knowing we'd get hit with all the taxes, which we did. But also some were held in REITs and other, you know, more fluid instruments and private equity positions. But we just sold it down. And more than half of our position was sold before last March. So we did sell into the pandemic. We took lesser prices, obviously, but on average, we did very well because we've been in these assets for some cases over a decade. And, you know, hotels and commercial climate control storage and all this stuff. But today I have a different tone and you reference to it.

There's going to have to be, for example, a 1,200 square foot space in a B-grade strip mall in Champaign-Urbana. Well, that's worthless. I mean, nobody needs that. They're buying everything they need online. So there's going to be a lot of repurposing. Now, could it be a cloud kitchen? Could it be climate control pick and pack for the online retailers? Yes.

But that's going to require capital to reinvest in that. And so if the cap rate was 5% before, it's probably trading at 7 plus the millions you've got to spend to convert it. And that's going to happen to a lot of crappy malls. There were 1,700 malls in America. Maybe we need 500. and I'm sure there's all kinds of funds being created to convert them to corporate headquarters. Here's a story I heard.

A mall is going to be converted to a corporate headquarter because nobody wants to get in an elevator anymore because of all the concerns about health. So you're going to have your offices all through the mall and you just walk to each other, you know, maybe with a mask on or whatever during the pandemic. But that's the kind of conversion we're talking about. Nobody wants to get in an elevator in New York with 70 people in November, regardless of who's vaccinated. Because we're going to get COVID 20 and COVID-21 and all the rest of that stuff. yeah exactly the inefficiencies is then you got 15 there i don't think about new york city got 100 floors the process of even getting your damn office is going to take too long it's just going to be absolutely absurd yeah i didn't want to get into portfolio management yet i was going to say that

towards the end but you've already alluded to like percentages your allocations and things like that and you talked about something your mom told yeah and one thing i read about you is a couple things one i think and again correct me if i'm wrong you have about 5% gold and then you publicly you don't invest in company unless you do see a dividend so again correct me from i'm wrong but one, are those correct? And two, have you thought about getting in the NFT game or bringing any type of crypto into your portfolio? Yeah, that's a great question.

So the other big change I made in January, which is the first time in decades, in our own operating company where we have a large investment pool, we changed our allocation from equities from, we were 50-50, 50% fixed income, 50% equity. And we distribute in the trust, as well as 6% a year. And so the problem with fixed income over the last 10 years, 15 years, is that it's slowly gone down in terms of yield. So today, if you have a triple B portfolio

of corporate credits, for example, in some cases, you're going to get less than 2% for five years for investment-grade corporate. And that's the most expensive it's ever been. So we reallocated to 70% equities and basically, you know, 30%. And then from that 30%, we decided to up our weighting in gold to 5% waiting. So in other words, Gold does not have any yield. You're correct. It doesn't have a dividend. But it's a great hedge against inflation. And you've seen the 10-year bond go from 0.9% to 1.6% in a matter of six months. So that is inflationary in its own right. And you've got to be concerned about that. But the new move for me, I'll tell you, this journey is really interesting. I have owned

Bitcoin and Ethereum since 2017, but was never able to talk about it because I'm invested in so many regulated companies. And so the regulator was not on board for crypto, you're well aware of that. And in fact, block many attempts to turn that into a liquid asset like an ETF or something. And then the tone started to change. Regulators in Switzerland, in Australia, New Zealand, England, Germany, and then Canada actually allowed the first ETF to be created just a couple of months ago. And there's now five of them trading there. And And institutional investors started to invest in the ETFs. So I decided now I can basically come out and say that I'm going to go to a 3%

waiting in my portfolio in Bitcoin. But here's what happened. And this is something you've got to get your head around. I work a lot with institutions because in O shares, we index for them. It's an indexing business. So as soon as I declared my 3% target on Bitcoin specifically, I got a mountain of phone calls from institutions saying, wait a second, where were those coins mine? And I said, I don't know. Who cares? And they said, no, no, no, no, no. We do not support coins minded China. We do not support

coins minded countries that have sanctions against them from the U.S. We do not support coins that were made unsustainably by burning coal to make the electricity to serve power to the servers. Where are your coins from now interesting okay that's that was the first and I said well okay let me let me dig in I'm going to put a team on it my own operating office so when when a coin is mined as you may know the only thing you know about it is that when the moment it was created that's forever embedded right but it doesn't have a location in it so the only way to know with certainty that you can own a coin that was not mined in China or a blood coin, as they're called, just like blood diamonds, is to mine it yourself and have that moment of creation in the mine that you perhaps own.

So new strategy for me. Here's what I'm doing. I'm running around the world doing deals or negotiating right now with miners that are compliant in countries like Canada, Sweden, Norway, or any country that is a compliant country. And they're saying, look, we're going to expand. We want to make our operations is more productive. I say, great, let me become your partner. I'll invest. You'll buy the new equipment. You'll get the new management software. They'll take you from 92 or 93% productivity up to 99.9. You'll use my money to do that. And you will pay me, wait for it now, a royalty. There it is. We're waiting for that. In virgin coin. So that my wallet, every single coin I own as I maintain my 3% position, is one that I know it's origin and it's compliant. And it's

not in China. It's not blood coin. It's virgin coin. And as soon as I came out with that, I got all kinds of other institutional investors saying, wait a second, why can't we get on that program? Why can't we invest beside you in those minds? And that's what I'm doing now. I'm taking on partnerships that care about sustainability and care about blood coin. They want their own virgin coins so they can say to their committees, every one of these institutions has a sustainability committee, my coin is not mined in China, my coin is virgin. This is something I didn't see coming, but it's a big, big deal. And I think there's going to be a premium paid eventually to Bitcoin that was mined sustainably and is virgin. Because less than 10% of institutions

that could own Bitcoin own it now. And so they have to go deal with their sustainability committees, you know, and their compliance committees about how they're going to own it. And they're going to want to know that it wasn't mined in China for a plethora of reasons. The majority of coin mine to date or was mined in China. And they are polluters. They are human rights abusers. Many institutions don't want to be in any way associated with that. So yes, there's going to be a change in the status of coin.

And I think you're going to see it come roaring on as more institutions. Retail investors didn't care. A lot of hedge funds didn't care. But when you talk about an institution who has a sustainability mandate, like a giant pension plan or a sovereign wealth fund, those are the ones I've been hearing from. Those are the ones who are saying, wait a second, if you're going to, going to invest in mines, we'll go beside you on it, and we want our percentage royalty as well in virgin coins that we can own it as a sovereign, and we know a certainty where it was made.

And so my message, anybody listening to this is if you're mining coin and you want a partner, you need capital, I've got lots of it, I will invest in you and you will become a compliant miner at my behest, and for all the other institutions that will come in behind me and help you become a much larger miner on a compliant basis. But every coin you mine, you will, has to be done in the most efficient way using as little as electricity as you can from as a renewable sources you can get them and we want to know a certainty that our coin as your partners is virgin coin and it's totally compliant that's a whole new business model one step ahead compliant miner it's a world i never heard about makes perfect sense again it goes back to the tagline

all roads lead back to the one and only missed your freaking wonderful so this is true it's so I mean, come on. And you're proving it day and day out, whether it's crypto or it's investing. And the list goes on for that stuff. But this is like 401 deep crypto talk. I want to bring it back down to 101 for some of the listeners that are there. And so I created this company called restart. And the whole idea behind restart is that it bridges the gap between what we're taught in our curriculum, but what we need to know every day. I quickly learned with my platform that simple basic things like the Dow Jones, 91% of 250,000 people I pulled couldn't tell me or describe what the Dow Jones was. So I love getting into conversations like this, but I also, for the listeners that aren't at that level, I do want to bring it back to a simple question I get all the time, which is the basics 101 of negotiation. How do I negotiate for my salary, Jason? How do I step up for myself? And you not only have to negotiate with business owners, you also have to negotiate with self-made billionaires across the table. So I'm curious when we bring it back to 101, some of the basic strategies you can give or think about that you utilize every day in your negotiations. Yes. I have some

basic rules. Number one, know your value. Understand what you're worth and own that. Understand it and believe it to the organization you're negotiating with. For example, when people come to me and say, please invest in my company and I'm going to sell you shares at the last round that the venture capitalist got in. And I say, no interest whatsoever. There's only one Mr. Wonderful. And he's immensely valuable to you. And we both know it. So if you think I'm going to take what some VC paid valuation, that's never going to happen. If you want me to be involved, I have a very simple model. I'll tell you right now what it is. I start at 12.5% before the option pool, and then I settle in at about 9.8%. And you're going to have to figure out how to get me that stock. I'm happy to buy it

from you, but I'm not paying what some venture capitalists did because I'm Mr. Wonderful. Now, that may sound incredibly arrogant, but more and more and more, if I'm going to get out of bed and work on your company and bring you into my world, I need to have a reason to do that. And that's the way I do it. And so far, it's worked for me because I know my value. That's how I negotiate. Now, you should remember that, but you also have to remember, you have to have the other side also believe that valuation. Otherwise, they won't do the deal. So you have to have proof in how valuable you are. So you negotiating with your boss. Here are the five things I did for you last year that made your job easier. And that boss and a woman has to believe it. So it better be true.

So you can't try and bullshit your way to that discussion. But most often, valuable employees are always maintained by giving them more value because who would want to give up a winner, something that really helps the business. So that negotiation is really about know your worth and not be shy to express it, but make it real. Show the things that really change the outcome. Now, when I deal with my companies every day, when somebody says, you know, Mr. Wonderful wants 12.5% of my company, I say, call any of my CEOs. I don't have to negotiate with myself. Call my other companies and ask them what kind of value they've gleaned by having a relationship with my team. That's the best salesmen I have in my negotiations, others that I work with. And that's what I concern myself with, you know, reputational and delivering value. All my companies, I work with them very closely. They don't, they're not all successful, but the ones that are, We'll often say, yeah, our partnership really delivered value. That's the way I work. You hit on something big there because obviously benchmarking yourself internally and talking to your boss and bringing up these things are incredibly important, but externally with things that have been proven, whether it's someone in the similar position of a different company or it's like you and you have a bunch of CEOs to actually put out there. I personally think the stigma that companies create of not being able to talk about what you make is an old bullshit adage that's put in place that allows them to actually get employees at a cheaper cost.

And for me, I think talk about it. Talk to the people in your position. Understand what the industry is paying. It goes back to what you said, know your value. Yeah, but tell everybody what you're making. And then you'll find out in your own social circles, who's underpaid, who's overpaid. And then you can figure out what you're worth. But I think you just totally disclose that because it's part of the negotiation.

I want to go back to something you said just before this when you talked about almost financial literacy. You made a really interesting point because I've learned something in the last few years. You know, the sharks, Cuban and I and the other sharks, we used to go to high schools. and we'd sell the place out wherever we went. Now, obviously, COVID, we'd do it virtually. But there's 100 million Americans today that do not have an investment account or anything set aside for their retirement.

And the reason that happened was we never taught them in high school or in college, anything about investing, anything about debt, anything about anything financial. It's a huge failure on the part of society. So a part of one of the things I really focus on, there's two big mandates that I work on outside of just my businesses.

It's mental health. That's one of the areas. and the other is financial literacy. So I'm a big investor, for example, in my med, a company that's actually in clinical trials with the FDA proving out LSD, psilocybin, many other molecules that can actually be accretive to help people out of addiction, out of anxiety,

out of opioid addiction. And we're very excited about the, you know, as we're going into these stage two trials and hopefully soon stage three, to find these therapies that will work because there hasn't been a new drug for mental health in 35 years. We just keep pumping kids.

full of Adderall and all these bad drugs that they're terrible for them because they don't really work and just keep drugging them up you know psychedelics might solve that problem let me let me give you a stat that shocks me you know in emergency wars all around America including here in Miami up to 40 percent of any one nights people that come to the emerge ward have no physical ailment whatsoever they have a mental illness or they've attempted suicide we there's no way to assist them in an emergency ward. There's nobody to talk them down. Sixty-five percent of the counties in America have no psychiatrists in them. It's incredible. And so that's got to change. This is one of the missions I'm on is to say, how do we solve for that? How can we use technology? How can I invest in something

that immediately when the emergency physician says, this is not a laceration, this is not a broken bone. This is somebody that tried to kill themselves. And what often happens is they sedate them, they hold them for 36 hours they send them home and guess what happens they end their life over and over and over and over again and so that is a horrible outcome that we can solve by somehow creating a network of probably a platform very much like any other telehealth where we can tap the psychiatrists all around the world to basically deal with these people and get them into clinics before they end their lives i mean this is a huge thing that i'm involved in i'm just starting to get involved and i'm very excited about what we can do. And I want to invest in this. That's amazing. I'd be

totally remiss if I didn't put this one out there. So I had a meeting with Barbara, and this is the question I asked her. And I'm going to pose the question back to you, but I want to show you what I said to her before I ask you the question. Okay. Kevin O'Leary or Mark Cuban. Oh, come on. Ask that. A billionaire who's a billionaire who's good looking or a bald-headed guy who wishes he was a billionaire. What would you choose? All right. So I got to put it back on you. I asked her, Mark Cuban, or Kevin O'Leary, you got one partner to partner up with. Who are you going to partner with? She was chirping. Put that back on you. You got Barbara Corker, Mark Cuban, who you pick it? I'm good friends with both of them,

but I got to tell you the truth. The only reason Barbara gets to Shark Tank every year from New York is I bought her a new broom. That's how she gets there. Yeah, that's it. That's my answer. I love it. That's a good one. This is all rapid fire here because we got you for two minutes. What is one mantra that you live by? You know, tell the truth. That's what my mother taught me. You'll never have to remember what you said, and you'll never get caught in a lie.

And that is why I'm considered the mean guy in Shark Tank. I'm not mean. I just tell the truth. I tell you when your deal sucks and when it's going to go to zero. And I'm usually right. But I'm not scared to say that because I want to live by that mantra.

I can't stand it when Barbara Lorry says, oh, Kumbaya, you keep doing what you're doing. Don't worry. You spend your entire, you know, life savings and mortgage your parents' home to keep your little kumbaya thing going. They're lying through their teeth. They wouldn't give a dime to this deal. And I'm the only one who says, look, these two are wonderful women, but they are just trying to keep your feelings up. I don't care about your feelings. They care about your money. So if you want to sit here and

cry on your needs, go ahead. But I'm giving you a great service by telling you the truth. And the faster you hear that information, the quicker you're going to learn. I want to end with this one, which has nothing to do with money, finance, or anything of that. But I see how busy you are up at 5 a.m. All the shit you have going on that's both impactful and lucre what is your secret to a successful marriage and family? I think you have to allocate time. That's the key. I don't work 9 to 5 or I don't, you know, I work every day and I enjoy it because I want to.

I want to support my entrepreneurs and that's, you know, that's my mission in life. But I have to, I find time, quality time with my family. And I often say them pick any city you want to go to. This is before COVID, obviously, and we'll go there for the weekend. And we'll spend it together anywhere in the world. And I'm fortunate to be able to do that. and we do it all the time. And right now it's let's gather in Miami when we can. We've obviously restricted to travel all kinds of stuff. But you have to allocate. And my family understands me.

To find the right person in your life that understands what drives you is very important. You're just going to end in divorce. You know, I don't need more money. I need to enjoy every minute of the rest of my life. And I use it to do that. Entrepreneurship is not about personal greed. It's about the pursuit of personal freedom. And, you know, you don't, there comes a point when you get to choose how to allocate your time. And I wish that on everybody. And I do that every day. I go through my schedule saying, I don't want to do this. I'll do this. I don't want to do that. And there's not a thing anybody can do about it. I have total control over my time. And that's what I care about. Now, obviously, I care about my health too, and you got to worry about that. But, you know, family can be mixed in with business as

long as they understand who you are. And on that note, I got to go, guys. You got to go. Because Nancy's, I'm looking at my phone blowing up right now, so I'm sure to be somewhere else right now. You got to go before you go. Where can people find you, Kevin? You know, go to Kevin O'Leary TV or ask Mr. Wonderful on YouTube. You know, when you Google me, you'll find all my platforms, but basically on every platform I'm Kevin O'Leary TV. And please join me on Instagram because we have so much fun, including with Barbara, the one that has the broom that I give her every year. And the sharks really gather

and have a great time. So, you know, join me on Instagram and watch what happens. Ding, ding, ding. We're ringing the Kevin O'Leary closing bell with David and Jason, where we break down

and recap our guest. And David is the voice to the viewer. The curious Canadian will give my take on everything we just discussed. And holy smokes, there's a lot to unpack in just a little time

because David, we hit on everything there. I mean, the first time he got called and asked while he's trying to take a piss, We talked about blood crypto, something I've never heard about, even how to negotiate. And I'd love, I mean, he opened up his full freaking portfolio for us. That was a great, great episode.

What did you think? I thought it was wonderful. I thought it was Mr. Wonderful. No, I thought it was great. You know how I knew it was going to be good in the first two minutes of that interview. I think that's probably the first time he's ever been chirped. He had someone asked about his hometown. He talked about his anniversary.

And he talked about how hungover he was all in the first two minutes. So he set the tone. He set the bar high for us. He set the bar high and I'm like, you know what? When you get a guy of that stature with that money and that fame, you got to quit. And I'm like doing a podcast here in like the closet of New Mexico. You know, he's got this like million dollar background. I'm like, I got to take a jab at him.

We got to put him back a little bit. I felt like we were on Shark Tank for a bit. Of all the financial advice that he said, definitely the one thing I'm taking with me is that that line about being hung over. He said, I'm feeling a little extra crispy this morning. So I'm. I liked extra crispy. It was awesome. Were you nervous interviewing him?

You know, what's funny is I remember when we would watch, we'd watch freaking Shark Tank in college, right? Back in Geneseo. And I always remember like, damn, how nervous must those people get to actually like pitch to these people? Like, you know, the most powerful and well-known people, you got to be freaking out. I was nervous and excited,

but I also realized, like, once I get going, I get butterflies before I've learned I get butterflies and kind of nervous and excited for every single podcast. And then it all comes down to prep. And then once it gets rolling, it's just all those butterflies go away. So to say I wasn't nervous, I'd be lying. I was a little nervous, but it was fun. I had a good time with it.

You guys had a really good chemistry, too, honestly. You're kind of definitely like in your element, like the little nerves before a big game. You crushed it. I thought you did a really good job not to pump your tires. Oh, thanks, bud. But, you know, he talked a lot. A theme was authenticity cells and the power of TV and it's worked for you and what you've done. How do you relate it to your success and a little bit of what he talked about?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's some serious takeaways there, right? Like his whole story about how he got on to Shark Tank when he talked about the fact that he was just like being honest and kind of ripped into that journalist and she's crying and the phones are going off the hooks. That's what's crazy, but that's what's good TV. Good TV are the people that don't look at the cameras. They're not worried about that.

They're just being as real as they can. And obviously, he is front and center of every single show for a reason. It's because he's real, he's honest, he doesn't give a shit about the cameras, and he doesn't care if someone's calling an ass a while. taking a piss in the Boston Airport. So that's who he is. It drives ratings. It drives TV. And for anyone that's listening, it's those people that usually do the best. I also think Caitlin's a great example of that too. Speaking of the first time that someone noticed him in the

Boston airport, what was your, do you remember your first moment of when someone recognized you off the show? Yeah, you know what? I was walking. I remember I was in Seattle and I'm walking by someone and they literally just like scream Jason. And so I turn around and then they like laughed and It was right by the big old Amazon balls headquarters, and they just like sprinted away. And I just had this moment. I'm like, what the hell? Like, that is the weirdest thing. Like, I didn't understand it.

I was like, oh, okay, must have been like, I didn't, I don't know. It was just a weird thing. And then I remember one of the goofiest things. Like, this is when it all starts sinking in after an episode. I went right back to work. I walk in the office. And one of the assistants is like, oh, here comes Jason. He's the best kisser on this season.

And I'm just like, this is fun. fucking weird. But that's TV, man. And you heard about his business that he's created. He can't believe how powerful the brand of TV has actually impacted his businesses, a guy who's already sold a company for billions of dollars. Were you shocked when he was like, yeah, I knew about you. I knew your story. You've experienced it. You know what happened to you on TV. You blew up. You used the platform to grow to grow franchise and build a business. Like, were you shocked? Because you had no idea. Remember we were talking beforehand and was like, do you think Kevin O'Leary even knows who the fuck you are.

Or did we just make a really good pitch to try and saw him to come on, which we did, by the way. But that being said, I don't know. Part of me was like, is he full of shit or not? But I actually, like, what was your take? I actually thought he did, which I was surprised by. And then I was like, wow, this is crazy. You know, I feel like I know that he did because he even said, he goes, I don't do things

unless I want to do them. And he obviously makes a brand off being like legit and straight up and honest. so, like, he's not going to lie about it. So I think for sure. Yeah, I think so, too. And I will, you know, I'll got to give him this, the way in which he presented, and I love the way you actually called him out

and you asked, oh, is that one of your Shark Tank products? That was great. But the way that he organically brought two, three, maybe four, maybe even five of his products, it was incredible. He knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing. Enough with the compliment fest.

Okay, okay. Let's get in the meat of the business, some business related questions. My takeaways here, I want to get your opinion on. He talked, and I thought this is a bold statement, Shark Tank is the number one capital venture firm on earth, which I think it is. One of the recurring themes and one of the successes of reason why he thinks that is is because limiting the customer acquisition costs. And it came up like a half a dozen times. Can you explain like high level 101, like what examples of customer acquisition costs are? And that's why you are so perfect for this, David, because you said

capital venture firm and that's in just because you don't have a finance background but that is why I love that you're here because you're like you pick up on those things and you ask so those are actually called the venture capital firm so it's the opposite so they but that's why it's perfect that you're here and it's in there and people in like the world will refer to them as vCs and vCs are investors they have big pools of money they might have an industry specific focus and then they will do a ton of research and do early stage investments into big companies so similar to exactly what Shark Tank is doing. And what he was saying about reducing customer acquisition cost is that every single company, you have to identify what the cost is to acquire a new customer. And of course, you're doing

crazy analysis of what are the margins on the sale of that product. How long can you retain a customer? What is future cash flow and repeat business of a customer? Is it a subscription model? We could discuss all the ins and outs of acquisition costs and then the return on that. But to his point, what he's saying is not only do we have a million eyeballs watching you right there and then, each one of us collectively together, we actually have billions of dollars. In addition to our billions of dollars in network and connections, we all have big platforms. You heard him say, two and a half plus million on LinkedIn, five million total subscribers on social media. When he brings these deals up, he's not charging them. But think about the Kardashians. The Kardashians do a deal, and if it's not their product,

every deal they do is probably a million dollars. So companies are paying these people a million dollars to get new clients. Not only do these individuals have the business sense, the network, the power, the money. They also have the fame in which they can promote it for free and therefore reduce the total acquisition costs. And that's what he meant by that. Makes sense. It's like putting your business and fast forward just by having them involved. Yes, exactly.

Great question, though. And that's like, that's a perfect question. So not to put you on the spot, he said in Shark Tank two things that he sees for companies to be successful and the trends that he sees, you know, you made the reference like a TikToker makes more than Harvard MBA, which is laughable and true and hilarious and scary and jealous all in one take for the TikTok knock for the Harvard MBA. It's one that companies have a mission and there's just in like sustainability and two, they understand social media so they can go direct to consumer.

He so conveniently brought up a pop-up card on the, on the interview, again, product placement 101. What do you think is next? What do you think is a trend in terms of like trend or business or company? What do you think is next? Oh man, that's such a loaded question. Things are changing at such a fast speed. I'm going to take a different angle on this. Rather than actually identify what I think the next trend is, because you talked about two major trends in companies, I'm going to actually talk about a trend I think is coming for companies and that they better be aware of. Now more than ever, employees have a voice. Entrepreneurship isn't like you're going to start up and fail and be broke. Entrepreneurship is like cool now. People can get their message out there.

And I think companies better be damn careful because you're starting to see now like Goldman Sachs, all the analysts are coming out and talking about the fact that their mental health is deteriorated. They're working 100 hours a week. They're sleeping two hours. And that's the expectation. And as employees start to get more of a voice and employees are saying, you know, what? Fuck this big corporate giant. I am going to get my voice out there and do what I need to do to make sure that I'm treated correctly. I think some companies are going to blow up because at the end of the day, it's your most companies, regardless of the industry, it's different, but your companies are driving your top line and they're also retaining a lot of the profitability in your

clients. And they're just a huge component of the piece of the puzzle. And so for me, I think that the revolt is going to happen. People are going to band together and be like, we're not dealing with this company's bullshit. I'm not showing up miserable to work. You're not going to make me anxious about everything I do and wonder if my job is there. What we'll see? I don't know. I think we might see some more contracts, more commitments from companies where the structures and be like, we're going to sign you for five years. Here's a signing bonus. Or there's going to be more equity involved where like work your tal off, be part of this company because you own it. I think the whole structure of employees will change and it's

going to blow up. Wait, so working 100 hours a week for $40,000 in the city like New York City he's bad for you. I mean, those guys, those guys are probably coming out of school making like 100, 120, but still when you put it in comparison to like you live in Rochester, you do the cost of living adjustment that's probably around like 60K in Rochester and then they're working like that. And the thing is, is that's the expectation. And then they start to open up their text messages and their emails and you start to see the way that they're being spoken to. And it's like there are, I mean, there are some freaking cattle in meat farms and slaughter farms that are treated better than some of these kids. And so this is going to start a revolt. I think it's going to.

One of the things he mentioned was, which I was shocked by this, is that he's busier now in his 60s. Again, you said not to age him, but then he was in the prime of his life selling a billion dollar company leveraging all these platforms. Are you busier now than you were like we just talked about in the grind of climbing the corporate ladder working way above what your pay grade was? I was thinking about this today. It's funny you said that. I am working because it's nonstop. Caitlin was sleeping at 9 o'clock last night. And so I watched a movie with her until she fell asleep, pulled out the computer, and I worked till 1.30 in the morning. I work way more now than I did before. But the difference is that

I am so charged up and passionate about it. I'm excited about it. So it's just such a different change of pace when you're super excited about what you're doing. All right. Last business related question. Okay. Let's hear it. He said, and I was making notes here because I'm investor like in kindergarten. Never let one stock become more than 5% and never let no sector become more than 20% of your portfolio. Do you agree with him? I do agree with him. Here's why. I actually am more risk averse than him. Like we had, you know, pomp on, pomp is coming on a crypto genius. He has 96% of his portfolio and crypto. It's insane to me. But high risk, high reward. For me, I don't want a sector to be more than 15% of my portfolio. And if you think about it, one stock, one stock can move a lot of

ways, even if that industry is doing well. For example, you could own Apple, but the tech industry, Apple could be getting crushed and the tech industry in general is doing super well. So I agree with his 5%. I would say, don't ever let one stock become more than 5% to 10% of your portfolio ever. And I think diversifying your sector in the 15% range is more at my alley. That's because I'm more risk averse than him. He went really deep into Bitcoin and blood coins and all those things. I actually, own a Bitcoin as well. I got it in the same time he did. Probably the only thing I have in common with Mr. Wonderful, that and being Canadian. You mentioned Pomp. What can we expect from that episode? Yeah. So Pomp is a renowned cryptographer. I think that's exactly. I think cryptographer is what

it's called. Maybe it's not. But he's a crypto professional. And so he has been in the crypto game for long, long before it was cool. And so much that it correlates to this pod in which which he teases and talks about the time that him and Kevin O'Leary were on CNBC together and freaking Kevin called it garbage, chirped the hell out of him. So on that pod, if you have any questions, anything about cryptocurrency, you got to tune in. I'm going to end with a game. Okay, let's, oh, you're bringing a game. I'm going to bring a game.

Let's go. Let's game it. You had Barbara, you had Damon, and now you have Kevin, three sharks. That was funny, by the way, then they were chirping each other. It was awesome. That was good. you're going to have to pick one of three okay one is your lifetime business partner one is your lifetime best friend and one is your lifetime business rival you can't pick any for either one so you have to pick one of each barbara damon and kevin your lifetime business partner lifetime friend

and lifetime business rival who you picking for what wow okay i like how different kevin's skill set is from mine it couldn't be further from one another or different personalities different people. And I would take him as my lifetime business partner. I would take Barbara is my lifetime friend. And then I would take Damon is my lifetime business rival. I'd go head to head with Damon. So that would be my, that would be my take. And I will say if there's one, if there's one shark that I could actually work with above, and you didn't give it to me, but it would be Mark Cuban. I would love, love that. But I like when, I like when he goes, I teach the sharks everything. That was great.

Well, we got to get Cuban on. So that's the next goal. That's amazing. Well, this was an awesome podcast. David, great questions. Thank you for bringing your honesty and curiosity. And I hope you guys enjoyed this episode with Kevin O'Leary. Please remember to subscribe to give us five stars, give us feedback, and also put your

Instagram handle because we are doing some giveaways for those people that are giving us ratings. So thank you for being here on another episode of Trading Secrets. Make sure to tune in next Monday. We have a guest in another episode you can't afford to miss.