Trading Secrets - 65: Laguna Beach star Lo Bosworth’s $25M company started in her living room! How she changed the personal wellness market revealed

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

This week, Jason is joined by reality television star turned entrepreneur Lauren “Lo” Bosworth. After quickly becoming a fan favorite on the MTV series Laguna Beach and The Hills, Lo spent time at UCLA studying history before shifting gears to launch her personal wellness brand Love Wellness in 2016. Lo breaks down her time on reality tv by revealing how she only got paid $3,000 for the first season of Laguna Beach to going in to make $25k to $100k per episode on The Hills, how she balanced being a major reality star while attending college, and what role the early years of social media played in her career path. Lo also shares all the different interests she explored before launching her company, what inspired her to start Love Wellness and fill a gap in the women’s personal health market, and all the science and education behind it.  Which shark from Shark Tank would Lo want to partner with? How can someone get their product in a major retailer like Ulta or Target? How big of a role does bacteria play in overall health?    Lo reveals all of that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!   Be sure to follow the Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram & join the Facebook group.   Sponsors: Mintmobile.com/secrets for a new $15 wireless plan   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today I'm joined by reality TV star turned health in wellness entrepreneur, Lauren Lowe Bosworth. Many of you may recognize Lowe from her time spent on MTV's, Hit reality TV shows, Laguna Beach, and the Hills between 2004 and 2010. After each of the shows wrapped up production, she spun off into the literary world by launching a blog, The Low Down by Lowe Bosworth, and wrote a book of the same name which was released in 2011. After quickly becoming a fan favorite on each of the hit MTV shows, Lowe decided

to step away from reality TV and begin the next chapter of her life. In 2016, Lowe's founded a personal wellness brand, Love Wellness, which focuses on women's personal care guided by doctors while offering products that are clean and safe for women. Today, we are going to cover all of her business ventures from Laguna Beach to Love, and everything in between. Lo, thank you so much for being here. We're excited to have you. Thanks for having me. It's so funny to hear your intro, like your bio being read by somebody else, especially from back when you were like 22. How do you feel about your bio? Because it's pretty impressive. No, I think it's kind of cringe.

Wait, why? I don't know. Is it the reality TV part? Yeah, it's a reality TV part. Really? Yeah. So you look back at that time and you're just like that just makes you kind of like. I'm so lucky, but I mean, you probably know in the early days of reality TV, everyone just really was confused by people on reality TV.

True. And they did not have any understanding that we were real people. or had feelings and it just it was like emotionally challenging right and I started when I was 15 or 16 and yeah you're like are trying to become an adult and then you're doing it on TV and making mistakes and trying to figure it out and that's a I mean that's a young age to do it when you think about that time period like was entertainment television industry anything on your radar did you just by chance fall into like casting I really fell into it so at the time the OC, the scripted show was on, and it was on the CW or whatever the channel was called back

then. We were mega fans. We were like, wow, this like cool show about Newport. And then a year later, MTV showed up on our doorstep at our high school, literally proposing a reality show. And I remember everybody, pretty much everybody, you know, filled out the paperwork or whatever because we were excited. You know, we're like 15. It's MTV. Exactly. TRL was so big back. back then. And my friend Lauren Conrad and I actually got noticed because we were ditching class and we were like trying to escape from school, ditch a class and Adam DeVello, the executive producer was like walking up the street and walking down the street and we accidentally like set our car alarm off or something. It was like a whole, it was a meat cute. It really

changed, changed our lives forever. But yeah, gosh, it was such a long time ago now. So when they come to your school though and, you know, that happens. and then you get casted, I'm thinking your family is probably has some hesitations at like 15, 16. I mean, what was that process like of working through it with your family, working through the business side of the negotiations? Like, what is your memory of that? So the very first season of Laguna, we were, we were juniors in high school. We were minors. We had to get, you know, parental buy-in and all of this stuff. and I remember that MTV initially didn't want to pay us anything.

Really? And there was one lawyer in the group of parents or, you know, sort of like, you know, down the line acquaintances or whatever that caught wind and, you know, advised that we needed, you know, contracts and to be paid. So I think each person maybe made like $3,000 for the first season of Laguna Beach in total. Not even per episode, just total. That's wild. But for me, I was young.

It was a fortune. 3000 bucks at 15. That's a lot of money. It was a fortune. And I, you know, saved it, just spent a little bit of it over the years. It was a fortune. But it was, there was a lot of hesitation from, from family, because we just had no idea what we were getting ourselves into. And for good reason, because initially everyone was sort of under the impression. It was possibly going to be a one episode, true lifestyle. I'm from Orange County. And it turned into one of biggest shows in reality TV history and, you know, changed how TV was created entirely. And we did not expect that.

Especially when you look at like, if you compare a numbers guy, right, like ratings now of shows versus ratings in popularity then, like the premiere of The Bachelorette just got, I think it was 2. I don't know, like 6 or 2.9 million followers. I'll brush up on that in the recap. But for you guys at that time, you're getting 10, 20 million viewers. I mean, that is crazy. So how quickly did things change in your life from the, yeah, we'll give you like $3,000, you know, a season to material dollars that could be life changing? Yeah. So for me, I suppose it was a few years later when I was on the hills because I graduated from high school and went to university and really focused on just being a college student for a couple of years,

which is what I always wanted to do. Some other people on the show moved right to right to the hills and kind of jumped into the entertainment world. But I didn't really have a desire, you know, to be an actor or anything like that at the time. And so it was when I was a junior, I was at UCLA. And, you know, they were like, do you want to come back to the show? And at that point, you know, the show was big enough that we could get, you know, talent agents and publicists and professionals. Adults. I put that in your quotes. People in the room who knew the vows. The value of, again, I'll put it in quotes, talent. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And helped us better negotiate our positions with the network, you know, more rights and things like that. But I will say that it took a couple of years and a couple of seasons. And, you know, the stars of the show were paid a lot. And we, you know, the secondary people like myself were also paid a lot. But it took a really long time to get to that place. We should have been paid a lot from day one. Sure.

Sure, especially given the success of the show. Did you make enough in like your junior year and senior year filming to cover the cost of college? Because I think about like now with the NCAA athletes and the scholarship. So that clearly covered the cost of a UCLA education. Yes. I think that there were, you know, 20 to 25 episodes a season. And at that time, you know, we were getting paid anywhere from $25,000 to $100,000 an episode. Oh, damn.

Yeah. So more than enough. That's a big change from 3K a season. Yes, more than enough. But we really gave our blood, sweat, and tears to do it, our youth. And, you know, as a result, you know, we were exposed to a lot to so many benefits and so much privilege, but also you have to deal with the emotional side of people knowing who you are, right? And being in the public eye.

What was like the troll situation there? You talk about like some of the, obviously we know the career. We know some of the finances of it, see the upside just based on what you said. Today, we know what the troll situation is, right? Like the online blogs and the comments and stuff. But back then, social media wasn't what it was or barely exist in. What was some? Like, where would people come at you?

Like, how would you get the feedback? It was the gossip blogs. It was Perez Hilton. It was all those early, early websites where people were writing whatever they wanted. And it was like the beginning of digital advertising, and so clicks were really important. And I mean, the entire media industry has moved online now. So I feel like we've become so, what's the right word, you know, like headlines barely get us anymore. Yeah, like the clickbait of those headlines are like, okay.

But back then, and what it was, 2010, you know, the littlest thing, and the internet would explode. And so, you know, we were just tabloid fodder for a number of years. Crazy. And we were still kids. We didn't know how to deal with it. We were not prepared for it, you know? Yeah, but how, and I think this is like maybe a lesson that anyone can take into their life as they're approaching their careers or relationships or financial struggles. But like, seriously, though, how do you're in college? I saw that you studied history, which I was like, well, interesting. But you're studying history in college as a mega reality TV start and then getting paid mega bucks. How are you balancing all that, like mentally? You know, for me, I always loved school. I love being part of a group. I was in a sorority, capa, capa, gamma. So I lived in my sorority house, and I had really good friends. And I just really enjoyed sort of being part of that group because that was always my goal coming at high school was I want to go to college. My sister went to UC Berkeley and I spent so much time with her shoes older. And so when I was younger, I got this amazing sense of what a university experience could be. And so I really understood that it could be awesome and I was like a fun party girl

and I was like I'm in college I'm going to football games I'm doing it the benefit of being at UCLA was in your you're in the heart of the entertainment industry in Los Angeles and so you know for me I would say that the challenges

really came down to some more like social issues you know I could go out with sort of of the entertainment crowd and then people at school would kind of give me the side eye and then I'd hang at school for a while and, you know, go back and forth between, you know, the crowds. The two worlds.

Yeah. That is crazy. But I was a kid. I was so lucky. So really, I mean. You had the flexibility to do that. I don't have a lot to complain about, you know. It was a really fortunate situation.

Right. And as a history major, though, where are you, like, what's the trajectory of your careers you're planning? Because you got the TV coming in, you're studying history. Like, what is next for you on your radar when you go back to that time? I had no idea, honestly. I was just starting the lowdown My personal blog

Back in the day, which I don't think I've posted on in years I should go to the URL and see what it even looks like Just for all time's sake We've got to pull it up But I was really focused on Sort of like the early days of media and content creating And so I moved to New York pretty quickly after the show ended I moved to New York City in 2012

Early 2012 And so I've been in New York now for more than a decade And the first few years I was in New York, I was really focused on content creation. It was very obvious to me that with a background in entertainment and the connections that I had, that I could create, you know, a good career focused on, you know, content and working with brands and having a perspective. And so the early days for me, I, you know, was really focused on food and lifestyle content and some beauty, you know, run-of-the-mill subject matter, honestly, at this point, it's 2022. Everybody talks about that stuff. But back in the day, and to this day, I'm a very passionate, like, cook and chef. And so for a while, I was working with my talent agents and, you know, the Food Network about possibly doing a cooking show with them.

And so I went to culinary school here, French culinary school in Soho to really, like, develop my skills. And my program was classic French, but with a farm to table spin on it. And Dan Barber managed the curriculum. And we got to go to Blue Hill, Stone Barn a lot. And it was a really fantastic program. And so I really learned a lot about not only organic, sustainable eating, but also nutrition. And so through that experience, I really came to understand how to eat for health and wellness. And so I started to become really passionate about that topic.

And I've always been a mega science and biology nerd. I wanted to be a doctor, but I just couldn't get through premed. Like, I'm bad at math. It's so sad that you have to be good at math to be a doctor. Yeah, right. Get an A in chemistry. Chemistry is brutal. Like, come on, man.

And it was also during this period that what I was working with with the Food Network didn't get picked up, like didn't get pushed forward into production. They were like, we don't want you anymore. Which happens all the time in the entertainment industry constantly. They're like, we want you, actually. We don't want you. And so I, you know, had that disappointment of everything that I had sort of been working for. And so, like, what year is this? This is, this is 2014, 2015.

Okay. So, like, the food stuff, like, or sort of that door closed in terms of, you know, media and entertainment. And it was at this time that I started to become sick. And I was, like, depressed and anxious for the first time, but overwhelmingly so. I felt like something was really off, really bad dizziness, vertigo, all these things. And I started to really look into what was going on with me from a physical health perspective. Yeah. Because I just was okay one day.

And then the next day, I wasn't. Interesting. And it took 18 months to figure it out. Wow. But finally, my primary care doctor was like, you have really severe vitamin deficiencies. It's stemming from like these gut health issues, et cetera. And so honestly, every part of my health was affected.

And at Love Wellness, we really focus on gut brain, bachelal health. And I started the business with personal care products because at the time I was having all of these gut health issues and getting all of these infections. I was at the OBGYN constantly. And I came to discover that most of the personal care brands of, you know, 10 years ago, legacy brands are, the products are made and marketed as safe and effective for women, but they're really not. And I feel like that has been, like, revealed to women now. You know, you look at these ingredient lists and you understand that all of these chemicals can be really bad. Sure.

Can disrupt your microbiome, et cetera. And so, I basically formed this thesis or hypothesis. If I focused on natural clean products and healing the gut, then my personal health would improve. And I was right, but there were very few products and brands in the market back in 2015 that were addressing the true, like, biological needs of women's bodies, which is to focus on a healthy microbiome, vaginal pH, et cetera, et cetera.

And so I sort of decided to just go for it. And I launched Love Wellness. I've always been entrepreneurial. Yeah. And I always knew I wanted to do something, but this really became my opportunity to build something that was uniquely my own, that I was incredibly passionate about. And this was back in the day of, like, Casper and Glossier being big. and these, like, brands with a capital B.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's nothing for women's health that was like that. Nothing. It was like, here's the tampon aisle, and it's really bad. And I just kind of felt like there was a huge opportunity to create a brand for women that allows you whole body harmony, but with beautiful packaging, clean ingredients, and the education to go alongside it, right? Interesting.

That was really missing. Totally. And so now, you know, we're one of the. best-selling personal care brands in United States. We have full distribution in Target, Ulta, Amazon, or bonus.com. So it's been a really interesting and exciting journey. That is a wild transition. So like one of the, the book I wrote is called the restart roadmap, right? It's taking one opportunity and totally pivoting to the next one was a hard pivot. I mean, so you go reality TV to culinary to potentially food entertainment to then this this downfall,

which actually ends up leading to the launch pad for you. A quick question on the reality TV front, and then I want to get into the business, at what point in your cycle of these changes and pivots? Did you say to yourself, I'm not going back to that. I'm now focused on this. I've always been really good at making decisions and moving forward

because I have always had the understanding that I can just make another decision. That's such a, it's such a bit, like a, basic philosophy, but it's one like no one gets. And there's so much fear that will drive decision-making because we're scared of the consequences. But to your point, you could just make another one. You can just make another decision. For me, that has always been easy. And I've done it since I was a kid. I think my family growing up thought I was a little like flaking all over the place. They're like, this year you like this. Next year you like this. And it turns out

that as humans were allowed to have many pursuits and delights and they just turn us into more fulfilled, more complete, well-rounded people. It's so well said. And so at least that's my opinion on it. And yeah, like I said, if you make a decision and you don't like it, you can always just make another decision. So I've ever been afraid of that, right? I moved to New York.

At one point, I moved back to L.A. I moved back to New York. I started this business. I did this. And I just don't live in fear of those decisions. I live in fear of other things, sure, but decision-making has always been a strong suit for me. I love that because I think one of my thesis is that we have this blueprint that society and culture will put us in, and then we think that there's X, Y, and Z we have to do to achieve success in the definition that's been created by what's been instilled on us, right?

Like, go to school, take out debt, go work 9 to 5, exceed expectations, and try to get promoted, et cetera. And to your point, it's taking those pivot, it's taking, making one decision, falling on your face to then learn what can come next. And I think it's a simple philosophy that not many people do that clearly you have been able to take on. Yeah, I think honestly part of it is because I just don't really care what anybody thinks about me or the decisions that I make. And I think that comes back to my experience on TV because I had to develop really thick skin early on just to survive through it. That's so true. So I've just been living as that person for a really long time. This is my world.

And you can say whatever you want, but I'm going to live it my way. And I mean, it's such a great philosophy. You said some words there that I wasn't aware of. And maybe some of the listeners are not, but I got to ask. I knew the pH balance and what that meant. This is why I knew that. If you want a funny story, Caitlin was filming for like three months when she was filming the Bachelorette.

She came back and she's like, you used all my P. pH soap. And I was like, that's the body wash, right? And she's like, no, Jason, that's not what that is. So I learned, it's for personal hygiene. I learned that. External personal hygiene. So I will never touch that again. That is for her. It could. It's fine. It's fine. It actually will probably be really great for your skin because a lot of these solutions are acidic. And so probably some like exfoliating happening. Okay. We got some good exfoliating. You'll be fine. That'll be fine. You'll be Now, the other word you said that went into, and I don't know anything about science. So you're dealing with not even a 101, but that went into your business creation was, you said, microbiomes?

Man, don't you know what the microbiome is? I don't. Do you take a probiotic? I do. Okay, well, then you are taking care of your microbiome. Okay, so for the one other person that might be listening, because it sounds like this is like common sense. Break down what the microbiome is and how it impacted like your gut health. Sure.

So there's different microbiomes all over your body, in and on your body. And like your master microbiome is the one that lives in your gut. And it's like the billions of bacteria and like pathogens and all the stuff that live inside of you, basically. So it's actually not you. It's like not self versus like, okay, the difference between self and not self is your tissues, your blood. Not self are like bacteria, viruses, things like that. Got it. So your microbiome is actually probably your most.

powerful immunity, you could kind of consider it an organ. But interestingly enough, it's not self. It's all this bacteria. Interesting. Bacteria are the great regulators in the body. So if you think about like an Amazon warehouse and all of the like robots moving around, sending orders different places, and think about little bacteria standing there with clipboards being like, hey, like send this here, do this. Your bacteria in your microbiome are actually responsible for sort of telling your organs like, hey, make more or less of this hormone, send it here, do all these things. And so people think that, you know, bacteria in the microbiome are really only responsible

for healthy digestion and things like that. But it turns out bacteria, like we are, we basically are just a big ball of bacteria. Lovely. Keeping us healthy and helping our immune systems thrive and basically making our bodies operate. We're really like at the mercy of our immune sister, sorry, at the mercy of our microbiomes in this bacteria. And so at Love Wellness, we're really focused on supporting the microbiome, knowing that we live in the 21st century, right? Because the things that can disrupt the microbiome are antibiotics, over-the-counter drugs, alcohol, foods with preservatives in them,

toxin chemicals, basically anything that can get into your body and, like, kill off your good bacteria or a road, the lining in your stomach, which can lead to leaky gut and things getting into your blood system and making you sick. Wild. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So we really focus on supporting the microbiome. Okay.

Because it's scientifically proven that the gut is connected to the brain and the vagina. It's connected from the vagus nerve, connected by these microbiomes, right? Connected by your malt and your gulch, which is like mucus that, like, runs all throughout your body and your bacteria live in the mucus. So all of these systems are connected. And so if one goes down, the others have a high probability of going down. And so at Love Wellness, we really focus on personal care via the microbiome. And that's what you guys focus on with the company that you own.

But is that specifically where you were having deficiencies in your 18 months of dealing with the health issues? And so what was, and now you have your solution because you created it. But I'm curious, what was the market solution at the time that you finally identified that that was the issue? Really, my OBGUI, and at the time was like, you really need to take probiotics. And back then, I didn't really understand the connection between that health and vaginal health. But taking probiotics really helped me a lot. And from there, your body just starts operating better across the board. I could go like really deep on the science, but let's just not because it's kind of complicated.

Okay. So we'll say, it's more of a high-level podcast. Basically, what I need you to know is that the gut is connected to the vagina and to the brain and vice versa. All three of those, like, organ systems are connected. They communicate to each other from something called quorum sensing, which means bacteria talk to each other. Imagine the bacteria in your vagina and the bacteria in your tummy are, like, texting each other, telling each other what to do. That happens. Are you sure you weren't a pre-men major?

I told you. I should have been a doctor. She knows her shit. Yeah. Okay. There's basically bacteria. Like I said, we're at the mercy of our bacteria. And if there's something wrong with them or they're not doing their jobs effectively

because of the things we're putting into our body or on our body, we have a higher tendency to get sick and to have problems. And it's really hard to be well, especially in the United States, just being exposed to toxins, preservatives, things constantly. Yeah. And so probiotics really do work. They really help heal people in their bodies. and they make them feel a lot better.

Interesting. And so at the time, there really wasn't a lot of products available in the market. There weren't a lot of solutions. But I will say, you know, Love Wellness is six years old now, and we're barely scratching the surface from an education perspective, right? Most people still don't understand kind of what I'm talking about. However, the products really work and the science and the education is there. And so, you know, the probiotics category has grown tremendously over the first.

past few years. It's like the fastest growing piece of the supplements market because probiotics work. Interesting. Okay. How about let's, so it's so interesting to learn how you got into this space, why you got into this space and where there was a market void for the space. I'm cute. It's so impressive. But what I also want to get down to is like how you actually make something like this come to fruition. So, so you know that there's a solution that's needed. With that, especially a product like this, I imagine there's regulatory things. There's probably credibility. People are like, okay, a reality TV star is now creating a vitamin.

Like, I don't believe it. Talk to me about the money and the strategy and the effort it took to make this thought and gap in actual real business. Yeah, so the first two years I ran the business by myself out of my living room in Tribeca. And I was just all in. So originally, at Love Wellness, we have a medical advisory board, groups of, you know, doctors, food scientists, nutritionists, that help influence the development of our products, you know, advise on ingredients, you know, test, things like that. But in the, like, supplements and cosmetics industry in general, if you're a good brand, you follow best practices. So everything gets third party tested.

All of your ingredients are clean. You know, there's basically like high standards that you hold yourself to. But if you work with great contract manufacturers, a lot of that is sort of built in. You have to have these like systems built for you, but you follow, you know, good safety practices, basically. Good manufacturing and safety practices. Okay, that makes so if you align with the right manufacturer, they already have a lot of these safety practices that are set in stone. Correct. Question I have about the medical board. So that is what creates your credibility, of course. Is that, if someone serves on like, how do you get people on the board? Do you have to pay them?

How does that look like for someone who doesn't know how to create a board? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, doctors don't want to work for your company for free. Yes, I can imagine. Their expertise is expertise. You know, you pay for that expertise. Just like if you were going to hire an architect to build a house, you need somebody with, you know, the credibility and expertise in, you know, what you're trying to build from a product perspective, right? So, you know, we've worked with everybody from, like, cosmetic chemists to OBGYNs, right? you know, just depending on the thing that we are ideating on and want to bring to market. So originally we had a, you know, medical advisory board that advised us on the types of products to bring to market.

And those were our first five personal care products, a women's probiotic that is still our best-selling product today. It supports vaginal and urinary tract health. We have a product that's sort of like a daily vitamin before women's health. It's called Healthy V-Vitamin. The Killer, which is our boric acids postatories, it's like a great, natural alternative to like monostat. I don't know if you know what that is. But the women who listen will know what I'm talking about. Big women following. So they'll know. And then talking about the pH cleanser that you love so much. We were one of the first brands to create

safe personal care products for women because what was available in the market before was really legacy brands with really, really bad chemical formulations that actually disrupt your vaginal microbiome can cause infections, basically do the opposite of what you're hoping that they will do, which is really, like, challenging to understand, but you have to go back decades and start to look at marketing, you know, that was addressed to women back in the early days of like, you know, you need to smell fresh and clean for your husband. Sure. Yeah, like all the bullshit stuff.

Exactly. And so this whole category of products back then was created, you know, as a marketing. Not a health and wellness. Exactly. It's like a marketing thing for women and be like, oh, I need to do this. But the reality is, you know, if you're trying to take care of your body, you know, internally you don't need anything. Only water. Don't put anything up there. But if you want to use like soap externally, you can do that. It just needs to be like naturally formulated, pH balanced with sensitive like ingredients on it that are for sensitive skin that are not going to like throw everything out of whack, right? Like if you use, think about it like face soap, right? You know, You're not going to use like your dove bar soap on your face. Right. Your skin is really thin on your face. Like you have to take care of it.

Same on your genital. No, it makes perfect, perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. It just, you know, you sort of have to awaken to the information. All right. Well, that's where I want to go because this is the, this podcast too is huge on consumer protection. So that is what they did back in the day as like a marketing stunt.

This is what you should know now. So when you're buying, what are the things that a consumer should be looking for and should they stay away from today? So when it comes to cleansers, right? Because a cleanser is a really easy entry point for anyone to buy into a personal care brand. And when it comes to women's personal care products, the number one thing you want to stay away from is fragrance. Interesting. Fragrance, whether it's chemically derived or naturally derived, tends to have hundreds of ingredients in them. And it's one of the number one disruptors of your microbiome, but also different kinds of hormones in your body.

So fragrance in general is not good for you when it's being applied from like a personal care perspective. Does the same, do you think, is that like a personal rule for men too, would you say? I don't know. Okay. Maybe. I honestly don't know. Okay. But the issue is that there's no regulatory agency that, like, enforces this as law, right? And so I would say that brands that know their stuff make only unscented products for women.

Got it. But there's still confusion in the marketplace. And so even new brands still are making fragranced products, I think, to, like, prey on the fears of women, right? When it comes to personal hygiene. Totally. I don't work for other brands. I don't know why they're doing it, but I mean, it's pretty common knowledge now that if you are buying lubricant, wipes, cleanser, any of those things, they should be fragrance-free and made

with, like, clean, gentle ingredients. Yeah. And still new products are being brought to market that are not being formulated in that way. Yeah. And I think I know the answer because the research I did before this podcast, the wellness economy in the sectors, the dollar and sense behind this industry is nuts, right? So personal care and beauty, almost a trillion-dollar business, heating. eating healthy nutrition weight loss, almost a trillion dollar business, physical activity,

wellness, tourism, half a billion to 700 billion. I mean, there are huge, huge dollars behind this business. So it would make sense, not saying it's ethical, but it would make sense why there's so much just shit out there to sell the consumer behavior as opposed to the consumer need. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, with our retail partners, I see all the data and, you know, see what our competitors are doing. And it's pretty amazing, but also a large, That brands are still making products and doing so well, in my opinion, just taking advantage of, you know, they're like fear-based types of products. Yeah, crazy. It's so eye-opening for the consumer. Think before you actually pick something up and buy it. Do your research to understand what it is that you're looking at. Lo, tell me about this. Getting into the industry, we have had some people like the co-founder of Netflix come on and talk about how he is big on.

And I've said this a few times on a few podcasts, OPM, other people's money. So he will only start new projects and new businesses by fundraising. There's other people like Mark Lurie, multi-billionaire. He's like, it's going to be as much of my dollars as it can be because then I'm invested in every investor knows and I won't let it lose. When you started this, did you bring on fundraising, other partners? How did you get it up and going? Because this is a cost-intensive business to get going. Yeah.

So I've done a combo. When I started the business, it was so early that I don't think even if I tried to fundraise, I would have had a shot in hell. You were one of the first reality TV people that came from reality TV, too, that used that leverage to create a business like this, too. I guess for me the focus is I've always been interested in entrepreneurship and I never wanted to go back to reality TV or entertainment once I kind of had the rug pulled out from under me because it was just not consistent. It didn't feel safe. Sure. There's no steady paycheck. And for me, like, that terrifies me.

So I was like, I need a normal job, man. And I'm going to create it, damn it. And I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it so. When I started the business, I was fortunate enough to have a little bit of savings left from my time on the hills. Awesome. I think it cost $100-ish thousand dollars to start my business. But, you know, this was early days.

I think the first inventory runs were like 1,000 units of each skew. And I, like, built the Shopify WebEx. site myself. So the real overhead, the first few years, was just inventory. But to date, we've raised about $25 million. Wow. We're private equity backed and we're profitable and growing really, really quickly. So, you know, fortunately, I actually was able to put my own money at the beginning because it allows me still a, you know, great position on my cap table. So, you know, I think for an experienced entrepreneur with a proven track record, it's great to go raise other people's money because you know what to do with it.

Sure. That's true. And so, you know, you pretty much are, you know, you feel really good about your piece of ownership and sort of like what you can do with it. It's your skill set that you're bringing to the table once you are a proven entrepreneur, right? You don't need to invest your own money because it's like I'm bringing my genius to the To the table. You guys put the bucks for it. Yeah. But six years ago, you know, I was the first time founder and figuring it out myself. And so in that regard, I've just been so, so fortunate to be able to invest my own money, but then also have this incredible success. It's not common.

Yeah. Oh, no, no. In fact, it's actually, we'll talk about some of the statistics in the recap, right? But most first time founders, for sure, fall in their face and foul and start over. I mean, over and over and the numbers aren't in a first time founder's favor. But that's amazing that you did it. It's like being struck by light. It's so weird. But you did it. You crushed it. And we'll talk guys in the recap. It's so bizarre. It's awesome. But if anyone's confused about the PE backing stuff, I'll hit it in the recap. We're going to keep going. When you had the product, though, you have, the skews, obviously you've had success in moving the product. From a marketing perspective, what has been one of the best returning investments? Has it been investing in celebrities, influencer marketing, landing the target deal? What's been one of the best marketing moves for you? So two things. When it comes to digital advertising, it was the early days of Facebook back when audiences were attributable and we were getting like seven to one returns, the early, early days. And the second biggest needle mover for us as a brand was launching in Target. And so this was two years ago.

We launched in the natural beauty section, which is basically like the clean makeup aisle at Target. And this was a really interesting case study for the brand because you think about a personal care brand and supplements and you're like, oh, belongs in vitamins or the tampon aisle. But we actually outperform beauty in their own aisle, which is really interesting. So Target had seen our success at Ulta. because we launched their first, Ulta is a beauty retailer. Of course. And we did really well

out of the gate at Ulta. You know, our Vaginal Suppository is like one of the best selling products at Ulta compared to every other product at Ulta. And there's a whole ton of them. Wow. Thousands and thousands of scuse.

And Target saw that and was like, wow, that's incredible. We're launching this brand in natural beauty. And so to be at Target is kind of the most priceless billboard for a consumer brand, I think,

in the world. And we just got so lucky that we were early enough in that aisle to really make a statement, you know, visually with the aesthetic of the bottles, but also, you know, with the performance of the products. And it was like, hey, there's vaginal care products in the makeup aisle. Because the makeup aisle is a place where women want to go and want to stay and hang out and look at stuff.

Yeah. Versus the tampon aisle where you're like, oh, my God. Grab and go. You grab and go, right? And so the discoverability of innovative personal care turns out works way better. in a different part of the store. The psychology behind the store, things you never think about when you go in.

Totally. How about, so someone, let's say someone's listening to this and they know someone or they have their product. It's selling. The question they say is, how does someone get into a target? How do you get into an alter?

Oh, gosh. I mean, is it just, like, what is like the quick answer to something like that? It's probably isn't a lot. It's really hard. For me, this is where my experience in entertainment has really blessed me in my life and provided me with so much privilege because now retailers generally are looking for brands

that have some kind of like extra juge that they can bring to the table, right? The ability to market to a mass audience for little to no money, right? And so for me, since the inception of the brand, I've been able to talk about it on my own social media channels and connect with my audience. And so being able to do that is, is one of the things that retailers really look for at this point is, you know, somebody that has an audience that they can connect to. And it's why you see so many people in media start companies. Because, you know, you can't put a price on the value of free media. And you were very early to that game. Many steps ahead of the majority. Tell us a little bit about, we talked about how the company started, how you got it up and running some of the dollars and cents and stuff there. Tell us where it is today. How many employees do you have, where your offices is, where computer. people find it. Yes. We're located in New York City. We are about 30 employees. We are actively recruiting. We'll hopefully be 40 by the end of the year, but we prefer to keep our team small and mighty. And you can find us at Target in the natural beauty aisle, in the vitamin aisle now.

In the tampon aisle now. We have our own section at Ulta Beauty. We have a great Amazon store. And, you know, Amazon, like people are like, oh, am I getting the real deal? But Love Wellness has its own brand store in Amazon and then Lovewellness.com. I love it. I could ask you a million questions, but I know I got to wrap up here shortly. Now knowing that you're hiring, what's the number one tip you would give someone if they came into an interview and wanted to land a job with you? Oh, my gosh. I would ask me really challenging questions. Okay. I like that.

To be honest, but I mean, I like tried to recruit somebody off the street today. They were walking in the same direction I was on Prince towards Broadway in Soho. And a girl was like, hey, like, are you low? And immediately I was like, yeah. And we were walking in the same direction. And so I was like, oh, what do you do? What's your name? Because we were just continuing to walk in the same direction.

Sure. She was like, oh, my name's this. And she told me where she worked and what she did. And I know that we're recruiting in that area. Wow. So I was like, well, here's my email. Look at that. There's the takeaway.

Anyway, one interaction, one conversation could change your life on the streets of New York. Oh, my God. All right. Very impressive. All right, let's do a couple quick rapid fire. People are going to want to know from you, Lowe. What sort of personal health routines do you have now on a day-to-day basis? I just practice a really good balance of work life because I work a lot.

But I, from the beginning, because I've, like, you know, had all of these illnesses I've had to deal with have, like, really had to take care of my body too. So I leave work at five o'clock every day. I'm like, bye guys. God bless you. And I encourage people to do the same. I get home. I take a bath. I have a under the desk treadmill now at the office and I can pump out like eight to ten miles a day. Wow. You're working. Yeah, while I'm working. So I really try to give my body what it needs, both from a movement, food and rest perspective. Okay. In addition to just trying to get the job done. And setting, I think the setting boundaries, too, is that something. Oh, yeah, boundary setting.

I'm big on that and I'm good at it. I'm like 5 o'clock, bye. Okay, one thing that you said to me that's still sticking with me is when you made the comment about how alcohol impacts the bacteria. It's the summer. A lot of my listeners are drinking. Me too. I'll be drinking this weekend. I'm ready for my martini now.

I'm ready for a martini now. But tell me if you are drinking the summer, what are some things you could do to, like, combat that impact it has on your. So my endocrinologist, because I asked her, she was like, you need to not drink less, but I'm basically doing an elimination diet right now because it's like had some gut health issues again. So it just goes to show even a wellness founder can like still have bad problems because I live in New York City and I like live my life. But I was like, okay, can I drink?

And she was like, yes. But try to focus on mescal, mescal on the rocks with like a squid. of lime and only drink that. Interesting. And I was like, okay. And I think it's because there's, you know, little sugar in it, no mixers. I've never been big on mixers. But I think, I'm sure it's still not good for your microbiome.

But like, if you are drinking something that is clean as possible with a few fillers in it, definitely the right way to go. So just try to like stick to clear liquids on ice. Clear liquids. I'm really encouraging crazy drinking right now. Totally changed my consumption. I'll be ordering mescal all weekend. We're still in Rapid Fireface. What do you think is the most commonly asked question that you get, whether it's on the streets or in interviews, about the whole Laguna Beach and Hills experience in your life? Was it real? Was it real? And your answer? Most of it was not real, honestly. By the end, by the last few seasons, it was pretty scripted. Gotcha. All right. There's your answer. And then my, the last question I have in the Rapid Fire is looking at your career today, looking at where your career was, do you think there's,

any bit of you that might enter the entertainment space in regards to like reality television or entertainment again. I think I could like sit on Shark Tank and maybe that's that's kind of it. But I'm not going back to reality TV, like traditional reality TV. But I mean, yeah, a little one-off appearances here and there, you know, with like an entrepreneurship focus because that's where I can actually add value. Yeah, yeah, as opposed to like I'm reading a script. Yeah, it's where I can add value now because of like an entrepreneur.

of everything that I've learned. Okay, I love it. I could talk to you forever. The last question I'll ask you before we go into your trading secret would be, if you did park, because we've had a couple sharks from Shark Tank on the show, what shark would you want to partner with on your business if you could? Oh, definitely, Mark Cuban. 100%.

100%. I love it. That's exactly, exactly what Barbara Corcoran said. He's the best shark to partner with. Amazing. All right. Well, love this has been wildly educational, informational. I already feel healthier, talking to you, knowing what I'm going to put into my system, probiotics galore, trading secrets.

So a piece of advice as it relates to money management, career management, or life management that someone can't find in a classroom or Google, they can only learn from your experience. What is one trading secret you can leave us with? My dad taught me this. Okay. Loose lips, sink ships. Ooh, okay. Don't tell your secrets. Don't count your chickens before they've hatched.

It's not meat till it's in your mouth. Oh, I like it. Her trading secret is Give No Secrets. Give no secrets. That's a new one, but it's one we'll take. Lo, thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you, Love Wellness and everything that you have going on when and if they want to purchase the product or ask you a couple of questions or maybe even apply

to the company? Yeah, absolutely. Love Wellness.com. You get the best discounts on subscriptions there. Our jobs are posted there on LinkedIn. And I'm at Lowe's worth on Instagram and TikTok. There you go. Check out TikTok. Check out our Instagram. Lo, thank you so much for being here with us and make sure to tune into the recap.

We've got a whole lot to literally, figuratively, and physically digest. We'll be talking more. Thanks. Ding, ding, ding! We are closing in the bell with the one, the only, the curious Canadian, David Ardoin on the Lowe episode, Laguna Beach Edition, slash entrepreneurial edition, slash a lot of like women's health. The first thing I was thinking was vagina. Women's health updates.

So we covered a lot there. David, what do you got? Well, there's nothing like a couple dudes that are about to talk about vaginal pH balance scales and the entire OB-GYN experience. So I think we're going to stick in our lane here and keep us in a little more. dude you know how you like you kind of chirp me a little bit for the not chirp me but just observed in situations of being like trying like you could you know me so well you so you could see the things i'm doing where my brain's moving 100 miles an hour like with the a rod and the jason hopenheim you should have seen me like when she was in this uh educational mode which was incredible like amazing stuff that i didn't even know uh i was like how do i relate connect pivot like like

like, what do I do next? It was almost like that meme where it's like the dog at the computer when it's on fire. And he's like, this is fine. Everything is fine. It's like, how am I going to rebuttal with a question when she's throwing vaginal pH scales on it? But it was an awesome episode. And I might die hard, as you probably could have assumed, because I feel like I am with all our guests.

But I was a diehard, Laguna Beach fan when I was younger. Like you've seen most episodes? Jason, not have I seen most. I owned the CDs. Wow. Okay. Confession. haven't watched one episode.

Okay, because I was going to... But I did a ton of research on Lowe, of course, right? Like, I mean, what intrigues me so much about her, what I give is just her business acumen, and she's brilliant. Like, she's really brilliant. And so I was really focusing on that. But what was her character, not character,

but what was she like as a person on the show? So the main characters were L.C., Lauren Conrad. And of course, Kristen Cadillard. Yeah, Caitlin's friends with Kristen. yeah and uh but lo was like a main character she was always like very supportive friend but like she's 15 years old man like kind of crazy and then she stepped out of it like she said when the hills was kind of the spinoff show and then she came back to the hills um and like season three or something but yeah blast from the past that show is awesome it was in like the OC days where it's like

that's the scripted sitcom and then laguna beach was like oh this is the real life OC so that was kind of like when that blew up but again another show that blew up i mean i bought on CD that that's how, like, pre-influencer, pre- Instagram days. Do you still have those CDs? The money behind it, though, I mean, the 3K per season at 15 years old, I know you guys went into that, but have you ever really, have we had a guest on the podcast and the reality TV space that made 100K an episode? Fuck no.

Oh, yes, we have. Yes, we have. I mean, well, it's not reality TV. I don't think, Rob Deer Dick, right? I bet you, all right, I want to take everything I just said. Rob Deer Deer Deer Deer Deerick. I bet you Alex Rodriguez probably somewhat close

maybe not as much he might have not had to give so much money and you know he probably didn't have to negotiate like that let's see who else I bet you Kevin O'Leary

gets a lot perhaps but this is like traditional reality TV like all the people we've had from housewives we've had people from Survivor Big Brother like you know

all these reality TV shows when she said 25 to 100 Kavan episode I almost like spit my coffee out. Oh, I couldn't believe it. Especially back then. I guess maybe that's my takeaway too. Like people were just paid more on the TV space then.

But it makes sense. Like I was talking to Trista and Ryan, we were just in Tahoe, right? And dude, in Bob Guinea, they're like, Bob Guinea, who was on this thing. So he used to be The Bachelor. He was on Trista's season. He was like this with Oprah. Like when he went on Oprah like seven times during his season. like they would get 30 million, 20, 30 million people watching the show.

So I guess like the network TV, like the Laguna beaches of the world and stuff too, and like the Rob Deerex we've had on, it's apparent that maybe, I don't know, the money was bigger then or there was less talent? I don't know. It's wild though. I feel like the money just got poured into one stream. Now it's like, okay, like you mentioned in the show, okay, the Bachelor has its opening night ratings, but how many people are then watching on demand?

how many people are, you know, watching it on other streaming services. How many people are... Tons. Their streaming services crush it. Like, I think that's the thing, to your point, everyone will, if it is on TV, everyone will also go watch it on the streaming services

or they'll move at all. And you also see what ABC's doing, Dancing with the Stars. I'm almost certain next season you can't... I don't believe they're putting it on TV at all. It's only going streaming. So clearly, that's the play. It's kind of wild.

But hearing 25 to 100K, and she was in college unless, let's just flashback our stuff. in college. I'd be dead. Yeah, I mean, 100K in episodes. She said there's 20 plus episodes. She's making, you know, she could make $2 million in college. It brings me back to the Hugh Henney episode. I think we literally said verbatim. Guys, if you're new listeners, go check out some of our previous episodes. The Hugh Henney episode, he's a day trader in college and he takes student

loans and turns it to millions of dollars. I feel like we said the same thing. If we were making the same money back then, like Hugh and like low, we might not be in the position we are today for the worst. I got a couple questions. Well, actually one question that you wanted to make sure I asked in the recap that I know I'll be able to educate myself on.

I also was educated on the fact when she says, you know, you're not going to use dove bar soap on your face and I was like, writing down on my nose, it's like, okay, don't use dub bar soap on my face anymore. But you've made sure that you had me ask about PE backing.

Said you wanted me to ask it on the recap. I don't know what PE backing was or to the depths of what you guys touch on it. So I wanted to make sure that that's something that I asked. Yeah. So a quick little thing here, PE, a lot of acronyms in finance, PE means private equity. And so what private equity does is they raise a bunch of money. They develop a portfolio or certain skill sets. And then what they'll do is they'll go out to companies that are startup or starting or complement their skill sets and they'll buy a percentage of equity from those companies, okay? And the guys that run and girls that run P.E. are sharks.

So they will see success. They'll buy into it. And they will know that with their knowledge, with their relationships, and with the current businesses they own, they can instantly add incredible value to that company. So, right, imagine, you know, you are a private equity company. and let's just say you're big in the beverage space, right? So you have sodas and you have beers and you have hydration drinks, right?

And if you are, let's say a small company like Caitlin's, like a wine company, a private equity company could go to a company like Caitlin's, buy out a portion, and know instantly with their relationships that they could have that wine in every single store in the entire country. Spain Sparrels isn't in New York. It could be in New York. They could press a button with their relationships

and the companies they own and they can drive efficiency. Or imagine this. That private equity company, they own a manufacturing plant. So instantly, they know if they bought Caitlin's wine, guys, this is just an example.

They could bring on Caitlin's wine and then bring the manufacturing into the manufacturing plant they already own. They can do it at a lower cost and make money to that company and all companies are better. So when you're private,

equity backed, it's a big deal. And it's a huge testament to the success you've had and the growth that they see you continuing to have. And not only that, but it increases the resources, the depth of knowledge, the management skill set. All of the likelihoods of success will increase drastically when your startup like lows. And then you become backed up by private equity. It's unbelievable. Did that explanation break it down? Does that make it? sense what I said? 100%. I mean, you mentioned just like PA backing is like sharks, sharks in the shark tank.

I mean, you know, they people usually partner with people in the shark tank based off of their network, their industry, their skill sets. David, that's, let me interrupt for a second because that is a perfect one-on-one example. Sharks is shark tank. They give them the money. It's private money. They take equity in the company. They bring their skill set.

Laura, QVC, she sees a great product. She buys into it. And then she brings it to QVC, which that company wouldn't been able to do, blows it up. Perfect example. It's also like she mentioned, you know, the biggest thing she said for a beauty company was getting a Target, you know, the biggest thing that she had, and that's, you know, private equity backed, I guess in a sense, because it's a corporation that she's able to now showcase her product. It's seen and touched and bought by so many other people. And who doesn't like a little Targey run? There you go. Targe. Well, Targe is a little

different. So just to clarify, Target, Target, is publicly owned. So you can go buy Target stock. I can buy target stock. That's the difference. That's public. It's on the trading platforms. You go buy it. She owns a privately held company that is backed by private equity. We can't go buy stock in it in the public markets. So a little breakdown. If you do have any more questions on that guys, what I'd also love to do, go to the reviews, put five stars in. And feel free to ask questions. We'll call out the question that's asked. We'll also call out who you are that's asking it if you'd like. And the other thing we're thinking about doing is adding a call in line for questions. We just had Rachel Ramsey on. We've been studying Rachel Cruz from Dave Ramsey. We've been studying

Dave Ramsey. He has an open line where people call him with financial questions. If you'd like an open line, give us five stars in the reviews and tell us if you would. Before I get to my last question, I got to say, I just returned home from Canada, took the red eye this morning. I tested your theory out. I took the aisle seat for a six hour red eye flight. I will, never ever Ever, ever, ever, do that again. It was miserable. I think the beverage card hit me every time it came through, and I tried to sleep the whole flight

and got woken up three times by the people trying to use the bathroom. So I'm hugely out on the aisle seat. So for all the people who commented in the reviews, all my window people were feeling a little stronger today. But while I was in Vancouver, I was talking to some friends about the podcast. And so some of them brought it up on their phone, and they were checking it out.

And what I didn't realize, and I told Jason this is Apple Canada is different than Apple in the United States. So what does that mean? Well, we got access to a whole different set of reviews and ratings and I screenchotted way too many of them and blew up Jason's phone and said, look what they're saying about us in Canada. A lot of positive things out there. I wanted to give a couple shoutouts. Scott underscore Sinclair, Jess Rukavina, Nixar 79, Mish 037, Daisy 4484, Seabric, all my Canadian people out there. keep listening, keep ratings, keep reviewings.

And we did a little breakdown with population-wise, how many reviews we've had, Canada's population, how many reviews we've had in the states, the American population? Canada's percentages, they're holding up strong. They're hearing us out there. They're hearing us out there. Thank you for those reviews in Canada.

Thank you for the reviews in the United States. And then just to go back full circle to your aisle comment, I'm in a group chat with David, and the best thing I got from him, what time was this at? This was at 7.56 a.m. our time. because you were on the red eye. I'll see confirmed awful, all caps.

Psycho, if you prefer that over window, especially for a six-hour red eye. Unbelievable. I love it. I took the connecting flight to Rochester and I had a window, and I slept gloriously for an hour and a half, but I'm almost thinking there could be an invention

we could make where you like stick something onto the side of the airplane that you could use as a pillow instead of like these neck pillows, which is like a more advantageous way to take advantage of a window seat. So for all my window people out there, I think we've got to come up with something. If you guys come up with something, let us know.

I would like to put some private... Peaback it. I would like to put some private money in there and take equity. So it'd be a minor. Equity injection. Wow. Private private.

Like a very small seed, private equity deal. Not even seed. Anyway, the other thing, too, I want to say, David, is we're coming off one of our best months over 200,000 downloads for four episodes we put out in July and people are listening to previous episodes too. So guys, thank you so much. Keep downloading, keep sharing. We appreciate we're watching and we're trying to grow and give you guys everything we can. So please

give us feedback. Yeah, 100%. July was an awesome month. And to go off of a low episode to end it, she said one thing I love that she said that I think that we do a pretty good job in our conversations about business and life is don't fear making decisions because it just means that you get to make another decision. With this podcast, we always have to make decisions of guests that we have on strategic things, how we want to grow the podcast and, you know, in your personal and professional life, I just think it's so important to don't get bogged down by the fear of one decision because regardless of what you make, you got to make a lot of ripple effect decisions from there. So I always like to point out the takeaways for the, you know, the viewers at home

and something that I took away. And that was definitely one thing where I was like, uh-huh, I like that. call out. It's one of my favorite trading secrets. And, you know, I think one of the things, too, guys, I'll give you from just meeting and speaking with Lowe is there's nothing better than sitting with someone that provides just refreshing energy. Like she left such an impact on me because she was just refreshing and just so informative but opened at talking about so many different things. and you know that we interviewed about a couple months ago and still all I think of is just amazing things when it comes to load just a refreshing person and I think it's so true that when you're with people one on one especially face to face the words matter you know the

pre-planning matters but there's so much to the energy right and there's so many things you can do to provide energy you're giving off to others when you're in those settings and I the first I go to is like business meetings and interviews. So that was cool. Anything else, David? Nothing else. I'm glad to be back in the United States at a great trip home. Great to see you and pot again. And looking forward to our future guests. We got to go. Good line it coming up. Didn't the guy at the border kind of fuck with you a little bit? Yeah. Should I tell a quick story? Tell a quick story. I get to the border. The border, the immigration, it's, I've had work visas. I've had green cards. I've had all this stuff. So I get there this morning. After my miserable aisle

flight experience. I get up there. I give him the, I give my papers. He goes, why you give me all the stuff? He goes, that's my green card and this is my travel certificate so I can travel across the border. He goes, yeah, that's not going to work. You got to go back to Canada. And I was like, he's like, no, I'm serious. You got to go back to Canada. I was like, what? He's like, this is very serious. This is not a joke. You have to go back to Canada. This isn't a laughing matter. And I just stood there speechless and was about to cry. He's like, I'm just kidding. Have a nice day. That is especially a guy like you who is delayed all your trips to Canada, your wife couldn't come with you because there might have been issues

with that. Like, there's so many sensitivities you have around the border and getting stuck and for him to just fuck with you. Like, I looked at him. I go, you can't do that to me. That is just incredible. All right. Well, we're going to end with a nice little laughter from the curious Canadian. I'm glad you got across the border. It's good to have you back here. And we hope that you enjoyed this episode with Lowe from Laguna Beach. We've had a great run here. Just had Jason Oppenheim and make sure you tune in next Monday. It's going to be an episode you can't afford to miss. Thank you.