Trading Secrets - 66: Nearly $3M in 12 hours! Danielle Bernstein, the woman behind WeWoreWhat, reveals the secrets to her massive success in fashion and beyond

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

This week, Jason is joined by fashion blogger turned business mogul Danielle Bernstein. After launching WeWoreWhat back in 2010 as a source of fashion inspiration, Danielle has gone on to turn WeWoreWhat into a massive platform with over 2.9 million followers, land a spot on the Forbes 30 under 30, become a NYT bestseller and the list goes on. Danielle gives insight on how she built her brand on staying true to her personal style and aesthetic, what the process of making the page look so clean is, the benefit of being completely transparent, and her philanthropic endeavors with WeGaveWhat. Danielle also shares how she decides which companies to invest in, details on her tech company MOE assist, what she looks for when hiring influencers, what consumers should look for when shopping, and her secret to networking. What business venture has been the most lucrative? Which social media platform has resulted in the most success for the business? What can we expect next from Danielle in the near future?    Danielle reveals all of that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!   Be sure to follow the Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram & join the Facebook group.   Sponsor: Netsuite.com/secrets for a one of a kind flexible financing program   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today I am not only joined, but I am in her place at the Hamptons by fashion blogger turned business mogul, New York Times bestseller, and the woman behind We wore. What? Danielle Bernstein. Danielle launched We War What back in 2010 to provide a daily dose of outfit inspiration, which has gone on to turn into a massive platform with over 2.9 million followers and landed her on the coveted 30 under 30 list. Or the last decade, Danielle has gone on to launch her own e-commerce store, become a New York Times bestseller, and founded

We Gave What and Mo Assist. The list goes on. Today, we're going to cover all the business venture is how she got started, where she is today, and everything in between. Danielle, thank you so much for having us out at your place in the Hamptons and being patient as we have some technical difficulties getting up. It's so nice to meet you. I mean, can I get that intro all the time? That was great. I like forgot about half those things. No, thank you so much for having me. This is going to be fun. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I could just follow you around the Hamptons all day and just, ladies and gentlemen, here comes Danielle Birdstein, 30 under 30, top dog. My hype man. You're hype, man. Well, let's get into it. First,

foremost, I'm always interested, especially creators and entrepreneurs like yourself. You obviously had to see some type of gap in what was happening in the industry. So what did you feel was missing in the fashion industry or within the segment that you're in that started the whole we wore that project? So we wore what actually started about 11 years ago now. And it was totally a passion project. I started as a street style photographer and I was photographing a daily source of outfit inspiration for what should be the easiest part of our day getting dressed in the morning. You know, it's women, sometimes the hardest. And I wanted to provide my friends that were not in city schools with that source of outfit inspiration that I was seeing every day. And then I would

take the photo, ask what they were wearing, and then go back and link it on my blogger, similar items. So I started as a blogger, actually. Interesting. Soon then, Instagram came to be, and I turned to social media and really figured out how to start monetizing my business. And we wore what became more about my personal style and my lifestyle. And I ended up dropping out of school to pursue this full time. Yes, I had to put together a whole presentation and presented it. And this is a story in my book actually, presented it to my father and said, I need you to support me financially for one semester. And if by the end of that semester, I can't financially support myself, I'll go back to school. And then I ended up not going

back. What year was that that you left school? That was 2012. Okay. At this point, was the business up and running in any capacity? Or did you just say, Because I was starting to be compensated to post on my blog by brands. Not yet on social media, but brands like All Saints or Macy's started, you know, a few hundred dollars here and there. It was never, you know, the amounts it is now. And I would link to the items and they would see sales from it. And that's how I started to prove, you know, the power of an influencer, which influencer

wasn't even the term we were using at the time. I was still a blogger. And then really started to define what it meant to be an influencer and how. to monetize that. So when you did, did you go back to school or no? No. Okay. So when you I'm waiting for my honorary degree from FIT. They told me it was coming eventually. There you go, box check. I go back and speak there all the time. That is so, I mean, what a full circle. You leave and then you get the honorary degree and now you're speaking there. But I'm curious, did your dad follow up with you? Did he make you show him the financials

of the success? And I eventually was essentially cut off. So I was fully financially independent at the age of 20. Wow. And so were you using the funds then from influencing as capital to drive the business? Exactly. So I was reinvesting everything I was making back into we wore what in order to grow it. Whether that meant, you know, getting new clothing or investing in new equipment or a new place or photography. Okay. And so for we wore what, did you have to do any type of fundraising at all or did you own the company and own the company outright yourself? Nope. Own the company. Damn, that's impressive. Almost everyone we've had on to a certain level has had to use other people's money, OPM at some point, and you did it yourself. All right now, this is, by the way, 2010, 2012 for

everyone listening. Right now, 2022, everybody is trying to grow their social media, right? Everyone's an influencer. Everyone's trying to do what you did 10 years ago. So those who are listening that have their small business or they want to create something, what do you attribute to like the mass growth you've had? Because if you look at this, you look at the, growth, 2.9 million followers. I read an article in Gotham that you had 2.6 million followers last July. So that's 300,000 growth. I'm about to be a 3 million, by the way. Okay, about to crack into 3.000 away. Okay, 25,000 away. But no one and no, it's rare that companies, especially small startups, are growing at that rate. What do you attribute to it?

But you know what? So I'll tell you first what I attribute the growth to, but also I want to stress how less important those numbers are now. So my growth is totally, organic. I've been doing this for 10 plus years. I organically grew every single year. I always stayed as corny as it is totally true to my style, my aesthetic, my lifestyle. I shared very transparently all the time. I was actually one of the first influencers slash bloggers to publicly talk about how we make money on Instagram. And Harper's Bazaar did a big article about it that ended up getting picked up by the post and CNN and like all these other platforms about how influencers are actually monetizing their businesses. And it was kind of a hush, hush thing before that.

Like, nobody really spoke about, can you really get $10,000 for a post? Sure. And what that meant and what that looked like. So I've always been really transparent in talking about the business side of being an influencer because, yes, I'm a creative person, but I really am more business-minded first. Okay. And then, you know, nowadays, I look at like my brands channel has 300,000 followers versus my 3 million. It's so much more important now to have a really engaged audience that's actually dedicated, that's actually shopping, versus trying to just continue to grow your numbers. Because even though as an influencer, those numbers look good to a brand, all of these brands are really looking for an ROI. So they want to see that your followers are

engaged. And even if that's 100,000 followers, if you have a high engagement rate, that means you're going to sell a product. Yeah, for sure. I mean, based on what you just said, I have a million questions, because one of the things that started this podcast was exactly that. Get off the Bachelorette, build this smaller platform, and I'm getting paid X, Y, and Z, you know, like 10K to do a story. And my buddies are ripping on me. They're like, oh, sweet, tap that, like that, swipe up. And I'm like, yes, let me show you.

Let me tell you what I just made in 45 seconds. Then they're interested. Yes. And I remember in 2018 when I started, people were like, this is a joke. Now it's a lot more transparent. So when was it that you started talking about these numbers behind the scenes of social media? I think, well, so you mentioned Forbes 30 under 30. which happened for me at 24 years old.

And that was a major career goal of mine. I wanted to be on the list before I turned 25, which is a lofty goal for a 24-year-old. But, you know, in that interview process, I had to show my income, like what I was making, how I was monetizing my business and what my future plans were. And they obviously saw that as a reason to be on the list. And so I have always been really transparent in talking about, you know,

when I'm making money versus when I'm posting something unsponsored and how much you can really be making. by doing this. But what's most important for other influencers to do is really to own their own product eventually. As you know now, you have your podcast. You own that. Like you're not just getting paid on sponsorships. So for me, that was creating shop. We were what my brand and being able to sell my own products versus everyone else's and really put the proof in my own pudding. Yeah, that makes so much sense. Real quick, Forbes 30 under 30. We've had this discussion and we've had a lot of questions and we don't know the answers. A lot of people have speculation that people like

will pay to get on those lists. Can you do that? Apparently, people will talk about that. That's all news to me, the fact that they'll interview you and they'll want to know your income. So it gets that in depth. That's new news to this podcast. You have to be nominated by somebody else first.

So my agent at the time nominated me. Got it. And then there's a lengthy interview process and they look into your financials and there's a lot more to it. Rumors cracked everybody. It's a whole different story than people were thinking. You can't pay to be honest.

That's like also people like, People speculated that you can pay to be on the New York Times bestseller list. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we sold 30,000 books in, so the way you get on the New York Times bestseller list is you have to sell a certain amount of books in a certain amount of time. We sold 30,000 books in like the first week, first week or whatever it was, like week or two. That's what gets you on the list.

Totally, yeah. So people were like, you can't buy your own book on Amazon 5,000 times. It's like the craziest thing I've ever heard of. Yeah. We have busted that myth here. We talked all about the bulk buying, the New York Times. We got into it with Claudia, so many, and we got in the publishers, so we busted that one. This is the first time.

We're busting the Forbes 30 under 30 list. It's good to know that that's the due diligence they do, and that's how, like, detailed it is. I don't know how it is now. Like, granted, this is a while ago, but fully was a, like, legitimate process. I love it. All right, back to brand deals real quick. How, when you go through the process, especially early on when you're using that capital to invest back into, we were what, how did you decide what deals were for you? How'd you negotiate them? And for people that don't have a clue, where do these

deals even come from? Yeah. So I think that one of the hardest parts about my career early on was really learning when to say no. And that's all in an effort to stay true to my aesthetic and my brand and to not just post every teeth whitening, like gummy bear, whatever that came my way, like tummy tea, like all that stuff. So that's first thing. Secondly, you know, I had an agent after a few years that worked at a model management company. She started the talent division there and then together we decided

let's leave the traditional agency world and work together and she was going to work with three of us and really take these incoming deals that were just coming into my email and actually be proactive and go out to brands that we think we can be really effective with

and partner with, whether it's a nail company or a hair company or an alcohol company. So we started doing outreach for brands and proposing different types of partnerships and just building those relationships. That's awesome.

One of the things you talk about is aesthetic on your page. And so if you guys haven't seen the Instagram page, go check it out immediately. We wore what? I think it's like the tightest aesthetic I've ever seen. Really? It's unbelievable.

And one of the things I was thinking about was for someone that's looking into that and trying to capture an aesthetic, how long and like how many pictures and what's the planning process of getting your page to look as clean and cut as it does. You know what I think actually gives my page its aesthetic is that it is so organic.

None of it is planned. It's 15 seconds of taking maybe like 50 pictures while I'm getting into a car to go to a meeting. And it's all shot on an iPhone, street style focused. Like in the span of me walking from my apartment to my office, which is less than three blocks, take filters as I walk. And that's it. And if I get the shot, I get the shot.

If I don't, I don't post that day. That's great. Those aren't pre-planned shoots. None of them are pre-planned except for the brand photo shoots, which are lookbooks and campaign shoots that we plan ahead of time. But everything on my personal Instagram account is what happens that day. And that is not the case for probably 90% of the influencer industry. So I think what sets me apart and what has helped me maintain a loyal following over the

years is people feel like, and you know from being on a reality show, that they're watching a reality show and they're watching my career. and they're following my Instagram, whether it's my stories, which are always in real time. Totally. Except for if I'm somewhere public and I need to post a little bit after because I don't want people to show up. But everything is happening that day. So I'm never posting three days later for something that happened three days ago. Gotcha.

I'm always posting in real time. And I think that like that reality show kind of like, oh, that's what she wore today. There it is in her feed. There it is in her stories. I see how she walks in it. I see how it is. I'm going to go buy that item. That's so sure because everything right now is so manicured too, right?

There's so much editing and all this. that people will capture all this content, and then a month later, they'll put it up. And then they try and put something in real time, and there is no organic approach. That type of stuff just doesn't feel good for me. If it's not happening in real time and I can't speak to it in a way that feels authentic, it just doesn't feel good. And if I don't put it out there in a way that feels good, my followers know that. Totally. Totally get that. Now we're talking from a creator perspective. Now I want to talk from a business perspective. I see that you sit on the board from an advising perspective on Wellbell and Highline Wellness. I actually know

Brendan, who owns Highline Wellness, and I just did a few deals with Highline Wellness. They're great. They're great. I mean, I took it last night. They have these melatonin gummies that taste. That CBD oil out there. Oh, it's fire. I mean, I slept like a king last night.

But question from an advisory perspective, when you sit on a board like that, what entices you to do so? And when you see their financials and, like, their growth, what are some takeaways you have from the overall influencing market? Because these are direct-to-consumer products that are driven by social media. Exactly. So my strategic investments and advisor positions, which there's a few more than what we named, have all come about from very organic relationships. So Highline Wellness, for example, they hired me to do three months worth of content for them. And after like a month and a half, I stopped and I said, I think I could really be instrumental. I see the growth and the potential in the company. I got to know the founders really well. You need a full rebranding, a new digital marketing strategy, and I'm going to help you do that. So I came on and switched my payment to, advisor shares and, you know, sacrifice that so that I could become an advisor for them. I helped them with a full rebranding, digital marketing strategy, strategic introductions

to more investors, and really came on and helped them completely change their business model. That is unbelievable. I mean, I think there's a lot of takeaways for anyone listening there, too, right? Like, company comes to client, and client rethinks how they're doing it, and then repositions themselves to benefit in different ways. So rather than taking cash for collaboration, you were then getting shares of the company. Exactly. And that's brilliant. Listen, those are rare occasions when you really truly believe in a company and its growth and you know that the value of those shares are more valuable than getting paid for sponsored content. But those situations I call marrying a brand and you really like marry the company and you

become exclusive in that category to them. And I did that with Well Bell, the hair supplement company that I own a large percentage of. I had been using it for close to two years now. But at the time when I came on board, it was given to me by my doctor who has three sisters and it's basically a better version of Nutraful. And I'll say that all day. You heard it. It's a hair growth company. You're sitting here. You can look at my hair right now. It's insane. I had not great hair for a very long time. I had extensions. It was fried. And I started using this product because my doctor made it for his sisters. He had three sisters at the time. And he's like this really cool concierge doctor. He made it. He gave it to me in a little white bottle. And I started using it in a year later. I was like, holy shit, this work. We need to brand this. We need to make this a company. So I took ownership in it, helped them do the same thing I did with Highline Wellness, full rebranding, like became basically the face of it. And it's going to do close to $10 million this year. Damn. All right. Tons of questions. This is off the script here. But one thing I'll tell you guys is when I got into, just talking to Danielle before the show, and we're talking about this person and this person and this person, how are you friends with this person? You know everybody. And not only you know everybody, but I'm seeing the way you network too in the brain. that end up coming to you. So I got to ask, or at least if you can give a tip to the listeners, networking can be a pain in the ass. It could be awful. But what is like your, I would say,

a trading secret to networking because you do it so well. I mean, I've always been a fearless networker. And that comes in so many different forms from a firm handshake to a, you know, let me get your email and following up right away the next morning and going up to anybody that I would never, I was never too scared to go up to the, you know, most important person in the room and introduce myself as if I was also that important. I love it. Just having that sort of inner confidence that it comes off to the people that you're around is like, oh, I should give this person the time of day.

If they are that confident, they obviously have something to say. But I always was very fearless in following up relentlessly until I could get a meeting and get face to face with the people I wanted to meet and network with. I love that. But how about a tip to, because a lot of people really struck. with that first I'm going to go up to him. I see that person. I know I need to talk to he or she. Have a drink first. Okay, so fired out a drink. But what's your, what is like, do you have like an intro line you used? Do you just literally go up and say, hey, I just want

to introduce myself? So actually, in the past, I always looked the person up ahead of time and did a little research and found some, I found some common ground to have with them. So whether they grew up in the same town as me or I knew somebody that was from a previous company that they own and had a reason and something to say that showed interest in what they were doing or their history, which I think is really important. So just like going up from handshake, hi, I'm Danielle Bernstein, lovely to meet you. Like, I love what you did this. Or, oh, you're from Great Neck, me too. Or do you know this person from here. I think we have that in common. And there is. There's that due diligence. Yeah, due diligence. And like, I think the

idea of like make it, it's not like a cold, hello, like I'm a threat. It's, hey, yeah, I saw you went here. You did this. I love that article you wrote in there, that speaking thing you did there. That's good stuff. I like it. Show interest. So from creator to networking queen to also on the boards an investor, you also have a tech company.

The list doesn't end. So Mo Assist, an influencer management tool. Everything from creating, right, planning, invoicing, et cetera. When did you launch that and has this tech company grown in the same facet that the whole influencer industry has grown? Great questions. So Mo Assist launched as really the first project management tool for the influencer industry, really with the goal of putting the power back in the influencer's hand. And Mo assist as a company is based on Mo, who's sitting there on Zoom behind us, who is my nine-year interned assistant turned COO and basically runs the company alongside me.

It's awesome. And it's based on putting her job into a platform, which she's been instrumental in helping we were what grow. And we launched during the pandemic, which was probably not a great launch time. and we launched for the beta version to learn. Tech companies are so different. They are so much of a slower process. And I went into it knowing that. So there hasn't been any sort of like disappointment.

It's been let's learn in this beta version and then let's pause and redevelop. So actually for the past year, we've been redeveloping the platform and are going to be relaunching it late September. Gotcha. And, you know, based on learnings, you know, what does it need to focus on?

We need an agency version of it. That's not just for the influencers, there's like two different ways to get into the platform and a lot of new features that I think are just more relevant now. Interesting. One thing to think about. I'm just throwing a tip out there. So Evan and I,

we own a talent management company together. Oh, we will talk about it. We will talk because first of all, I think it would be a great product for a lot of the talent we rep. But additionally, the way that deals come to influencers is all over the board. And it's so sporadic and it's inconsistent.

If there was an app that also source deals or like an influencer could put bids out, Like, I'm trying to acquire this type of brand. But there are a lot of marketplaces out there that do that. And they are very spread out. Yeah. So, like, Instagram, for example, now released a tool where you can put an offer out to talent. Sure.

But where do you manage all of that? Because it's never, there's never going to be one place where that happens, right? There's so many agencies, so many marketplaces, so many places where deals are coming in from all different angles. Yeah. But where do you manage all of it? Like, we use a notepad or a Google spreadsheet. That's where Mo comes in.

Is that all those deals go to one place. And you can manage, set your deliverables through that, send them to the client through that, and it's a one-stop shop. Brilliant. Evan, put it on the calendar. We're going to talk about that. You guys will do our beta testing for the new product. We'll do some beta testing.

But for anyone that is listening, that might be an influencer in the space and incapacity, what's the price point and where can they get it when it comes out? So we're going to be relaunching with a whole new price point and a whole new platform. So late September, you'll hear more about it. Late September, check it out. That's another place that you're in. It's wild. Okay.

Of all the different businesses you have, you said you're an investor, you have the fashion business, you have the tech business, you have a New York Times bestseller. Which of them has been the most lucrative for you? My brand. Okay. Buy a long shop. Yeah, shop we wore what, which is my brand that started off as swim, as now swim, active wear, ready to wear, intimate, soon to be three more categories next year and really just like taking over. It's an amazing price point. with quality product. And we really focus on giving our customers what they ask for. So I have a unique position where I have such a direct line of communication with our customers. So I'm constantly including them in the process and getting their feedback along the way. So whether that's

colorways or fits or fabrics, they're included in the process and thus we see it in the sales. Got it. I anticipated that because I had my team do a little due diligence with Mo. And they had said that in your first swim collection that you had made nearly $2 million in the first 12 hours of launching. Are those numbers true? Yeah, it was actually with wholesale was closer to $3 million. Damn. And that was our first swim collection, which was Italy themed. And it was actually a collaboration still at that point with Onya, who's my business partner in the brand now. Okay. And since then, we have continued to grow these collections and launch new categories. When you forecasted that, did you have the inventory and did you project to do $3 million in

sales in 12 hours? Or was that a shock ticket? No, it was supposed to be over a longer period of time for sure. We did not expect it to do that well in one day. That's unbelievable. Well, hats off to you. Now, where do you see most of the success? Wholesale or direct to consumer? Direct to consumer. So we're about 60, almost 70% direct to consumer and 40, 30% wholesale. Okay. And now that you know the influencer market better than most and even have products and tools for influencers, is the company actually, do you guys hire influencers? Like, are you in the job now of hiring what you once were? We do. And it's very interesting. because I'm even more like critical on the influencers that we work with because I know

your capacity and what your engagements should be and if you perform well and if you deliver basically the way I would deliver for a brand. So, you know, I even get to work with influencers that send me like many pieces of content like over what their contract says they should. And then I also work with influencers that don't really deliver and I expect to do better than they do and their links don't provide sales. So I'm learning as a brand owner or even more about my industry now. Interesting. And when you're looking to hire someone,

what is the number one thing you're looking for when you're looking to deploy money to help drive your brand? It depends what for. So we hire for two things. We hire for conversion to sales and an ROI. We also hire for UGC, for user-generated content that is just aesthetically pleasing

that we need for our social media. So we do two things. And the UGC content, we don't expect anything in return except for great photos. For the other content, we expect sales. Interesting. Okay. I mean, with your eye for the marketing and the creative, I'm surprised you have yet to start a marketing agency or a media agency. That's like a whole other household. Although we do have such a badass graphic design team.

And, you know, our team is so strong and they hustle like crazy. So I could see that for us one day. But they're very busy doing the marketing for my brand that I don't even know how we could take on others. Sounds like your plate's full. But if you need more, it does seem like an option. That could be the next one. And we talked about it here. first. I want a piece of that pie. When you're looking, so you talked about Highline Wellness that you wanted to take on shares. You talked about the fact you have other early seed type investments. When you're looking to invest in a company that's within an industry outside of what you know and what you work in, what are things you're thinking about before

you want any type of equity in a company? I mean, I definitely like review their financial decks and their investor decks and the plans for their future business. But I also look to see that I can be instrumental in helping them grow. So, you know, I'm an investor in an alcohol brand, a tequila brand, a wine brand, two food brands, and really just looking to see that, A, I love the product. I have to love it and use it. And that B, I can be helpful in some way, whether it's on the back end or the front end of the brand. Got it. That makes sense. So using whatever type of equity you can bring to the brand based on your skill set and knowing that that it can bring the brand to the next level, that makes a lot of sense. What about we were what? Like, what is the, when you look

at the forecast for the two, five, 10 year plan. Is there a certain number you're trying to achieve from a revenue perspective or a number you're trying to exit or is there some bigger plan than all the success? Everybody has their number. So, of course, not one I'm willing to share. But yes, everyone has a number. I really want to focus on the next three to five years in building out the brand into more categories, introducing extensions of the brand and really growing our direct-to-consumer business more because that's the one thing we can really control, especially in this market. I mean, the supply chain issues across the world are insane right now. Anybody that has any sort of consumer phasing company will know. And so really owning your

customer and owning your product is so important and being able to get that out in the best way possible. So focusing on, you know, redoing our marketing, going from collection launches to weekly drops and just figuring out what the next like iteration of the we wore what brand is and really focusing on that, plus on the influencer side, longer-term partnership. So that side of my business is not as important as it used to be, but I still really value and love my longer-term partnership. So one-off posting, such a thing of the past, but I really look for three to six-month-to-one-year contracts. Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. When you think about the industry and things that are changing, I just know nothing about this. And I'm curious if it's on your radar at all. I saw that a lot

of the big brands, like the Gucci's and the Louvittons are doing like NFTs, hide somehow to fashion? Like, is that something that you see taking off? I can't even begin to try and understand that world. You're just like, it's not. Nor do I have the capacity to bring it on. I love it. But I do think, obviously, like something in the metaverse and, and creating that, you know, that aspect for any company is important. You just need to be, like, educated about it. And I'm, quite frankly, not yet. I think there's a lot of people that are that you can bring in as consultants to help do something like that. But we don't even have retail stores yet. So I have to think about, like, do we need retail stores first?

Do we need a store in the Metaverse? Like, where do we need to go with this? So, yeah, I mean, we're constantly communicating about it and keeping ourselves as up to date and educated as possible. But there's a lot to focus on right now. And you really, I do a lot of things at once more than most, but, you know, have to sort of limit that and stay focused. Okay.

So Metaverse on hold for right now, but you do see it in the future. A few questions. I always like to ask owners for consumer protection. So, like, trading secrets, you can give them. So if someone is in the market to shop for something in the fashion space, what is one like tip or strategy you'd give them to consider or look for that they should be aware of that maybe they're not aware of? Like quality, is there certain things you should look for from the company that you're

buying for? Are there certain times maybe things might be on sale? Are there any consumer like buying tips you'd give? Okay. Interesting. Yes. I think, I mean, quality is obviously really important. We focus on quality and fit first and then design and then price point follows with that

because we like to keep a lower price point. But I would say that, yes, brands always put items on sale. It just, they're always off season if so. So if you know you want a product with our brand, products sell out, the best sellers will sell out on the first day. So if you want a product, get on it and get it quickly. Actually, a really good tip for that would be there's always a discount code available. Whether you sign up for somebody's text message marketing, email marketing, you download their app, you leave a review, there's always a way to get a discount code for a direct-to-consumer business. There's 20 different ways for my business to get a discount code to shop with, and you should always be utilizing those.

Okay, so I have to ask now, if someone wants a discount code for Wii War or what, where's the first place to go? I would first sign up for the email marketing. You get a 20% off code right there. There you go. Or text marketing, or you download the app, or you, leave a review. If you leave a review, you got a 20% discount code. There you go. 20% off. You guys just got it. What about a fashion? But we also, we count for that in our business. Like, we know we're going to be giving out these discount codes and that all goes into the price. Yeah. So in general, with your business and many other businesses out there, they're forecasting those discounts. Exactly. They're out there. It's not like you're cheating going to get those. They're there

for the taking. Just do it. Exactly. Got it. All right. One fashion tip you'd give someone that you had mentioned when you started your blog, some women out there don't start the day knowing exactly what they're going to wear. And it doesn't come easy. Do you have like a golden rule or a fashion tip you'd give for someone as they're trying to get ready for something or just the day? I would say comfort is key. So for me, if I'm wearing one thing tight, there's always one thing loose with it. So if I'm wearing tight bottoms, the top is loose or a tight top, the bottoms are loose and always focusing on being comfortable. Because if you're not comfortable, you don't feel your best and then you definitely don't look your best. That's a good one. And is that trend changing?

Because I saw that one red carpet with Justin Bieber and he's in that like oversized suit. Is that the thing that's like trending now? Not necessarily. Oversize will always be like in some capacity. But I still love like a very tailored look. I think it just depends on the occasion. And something about me and my personal style is I wear so many different hats and my style is ever changing. And I don't categorize myself as feminine or edgy or this or that. I literally could be. a different style every day of the week. Gotcha. Okay. Good stuff. Good to know. These are things that I didn't know about the industry that I am taking on and I will look into.

It's not the case for everybody. A lot of people define themselves by their style. Yeah. As we get ready for Jill's event tomorrow, let's make sure we're comfortable. One thing tight, one thing loose. I'll be thinking. What do you think in the industry from an owner's point of view? What is the biggest challenge and change happening in the fashion industry right now. I mean, I think that brands, it's risky now to be spending a lot of marketing, right, just from where the economy is. So I think brands are really looking for a return on their investment more than before. Whereas, like, I explain, like, a lot of times it's like, you know, if you work with somebody with three plus million followers, there's a combination of their like kind of a

celebrity, but they're an influencer. And are you just getting exposure? Are you also going to see a return on your investment. And so I like to think I give you both, right? I give you the exposure, but I'm also going to sell a shit ton of product for you. And it's a lot riskier for brands to pay the price that it is to work with somebody as big as I am or the other girls that are kind of like the OG influencers. And so I think brands are being a lot more risk adverse with their marketing dollars just because they have to be. Interesting. Yeah. And of those areas that you might spend money, I mean, it makes sense, especially with recession. I mean, the need to have to like to have buying purchases, we're seeing those slow down as the market's down 20%.

And then on top of that, you're dealing with inflation, right? So you have 9% inflation. So you have to mark up with the time that's happening, but you also have people buying less. Exactly. It's got to be a crazy time. When you look at the different social media forums that you can go for marketing, right, TikTok, LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, have you found more success in one versus the other? Is there one of those areas you're paying more attention to now? We have a TikTok, and my team runs it, and it's totally about putting the Wii back in We wore what, and so it's very team-focused, customer-focused, and that's been great to just

get the word out there. But Instagram is still definitely the driver for sales. Instagram still is over TikTok, huh? And is true or false? People will spend more on Instagram than they will on TikTok for someone with the same following. True, just because it's an older demographic, primarily, I think. So they have more purchasing power. Got it. All right. Well, let's wrap also with, we heard a lot about the we, but we gave what. It's a really cool philanthropic thing that you have done to give back to organizations that mean a lot to you. So tell people a little bit about what your initiatives are and how you chose the organizations you've

surrounded yourself with. Yeah. So we gave what started at the beginning of the pandemic as a way to give back past the pandemic. So it started with the need and then we have continued it over two years later. And really, we gave what plays as the middleman between all of these amazing organizations that already exist, these small businesses that don't have exposure and my platform of a larger audience and my community and my friends and their communities. And so we play that middleman

where we raise awareness, we raise funds, we do creative initiatives, we bring awareness to the small businesses, we collaborate with them, and we have helped so many different small businesses to actually be able to do their business full time. It's been some of the most rewarding work of my career. We've been able to give back

hundreds of thousands of dollars to several different organizations that have become part of our community. And we continue to support them through each year and time and time again. And it's just been great to see the direct impact that my community can make. And we story tell so much with the givebacks that we do. So my community feels so invested in it as well. And they're able to see where their money is going. So if we're giving back a portion of proceeds from a swim launch, they're able to see exactly where that donation is going because we share that. I absolutely love that. I mean, the transparency in any type of work like that is so important because you see how many people out there aren't doing that. And I think just the causes you're supporting, right, sustainability, education, empowerment, health and wellness, humanitarian, equality and human rights.

I mean, those are such core pillars to what is so necessary today. So to see the success you've had, to talk about the numbers of dollars, the strategy, and then also full circle to how you're giving back is incredible. 30 under 30 at 24. Are we going 40 under 40? Under 35? What's the next goal? Do we like that list? I'm kind of like over it in a sense. No, I mean, I think I would love to write another book. I think that's in the pipeline. And then I just have really more business goals. I think like I don't necessarily need the validation of more lists, but they would be nice. There you go. We heard it here. All right, you got to leave us with one trading secret. So something that someone couldn't find in a textbook, learn in a classroom. It could be about financial management. management, money management, career management, branding, anything. You got to leave us with one trading secret. I mean, just currently, I would say, hire a great fucking lawyer. Interesting. Can you give us a little more there? I just think, like, I have over my career and more so the past three plus years than ever, have needed a great lawyer that I can contact at any time, any day of the

week and that really wants to work hard for me that is not necessarily billing every single hour and isn't a cheap lawyer but is money well spent and there was a big portion of the early part of my career where I didn't have a lawyer look at my contracts and I was so young I was not even they were small a few hundred dollar contracts and I didn't want to pay the exact amount that the contract was on a lawyer and that was a huge mistake I can't even stress enough to my other influencer friends to anyone that owns a business how important it is to have a great attorney, lawyer, whatever. That's a good trading secret. Stay tuned to the recap. I'll tell you how I got burned by not having a lawyer. Is there one area or like amendment of a contract you can think of

that if you would have had a lawyer, it would have protected you? For influencers, usage rights are the most important. So whether a brand can use your images elsewhere than just reposting on their social media, if they can use it for paid advertising and all that stuff. And then termination rights. Termination rights. There you go. All right. A lot of moving parts. there. I will... That could be a whole episode in itself. I won't take any further because that could be a whole episode. But Danielle, thank you so much for coming on Trading Secrets, an investor, a founder, philanthropist, Forbes 30 under 30, a New York Times best seller. The list keeps going on. It will keep going on. Thank you so much for being here on Training Secrets. We appreciate

it. This was so much fun. Awesome. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell with the one, the only, the curious Canadian, David Ardoin. David, the or what podcast. First of all, and, you know, I just got to say this. We're going to recap it. Can't wait, but it was so good to see you, David. Got to see David this past weekend. We had a Sunday fun day. We started off with some drinks. We went to the arcade. We made our way through Rochester, New York for a nice Italian dinner. What a time, David. It's good to see you. It was great to see you. It was great to spend some time with you and KB. I hadn't seen KB forever. She was filming, I think she was filming the finale.

when my wedding was happening last summer. So I hadn't seen her forever. It was great to see you guys. It's great to be on for another recap of another episode. Before we get into the meat of it, Jay, one relatability factor. She talked about how hard it is to have organic Instagram growth. And I just happened to be scrolling through her IG today, seeing that Trading Secrets Podcast has jumped to 116,000 Instagram followers, which is up about 11,000 from when I looked like legitimately three weeks ago. So how? How did that happen? Huge. Well, yeah, Ms. Burns, seen talked a little bit about it. I wouldn't say that our aesthetic is what drives our Instagram growth. It's definitely the content. So we put this new series out there, trading secrets in the

streets where I go up to random people and just ask them, what do you make? What do you start at? What do you want to make? How satisfied are you with your career? What's your trading secret? And so I had this interview and the first one we released. It was Hannah in New York City and she talks about the fact she's a coder and she could make up on 150K plus bonus. And she talked about the fact you don't even need a four-year degree, and it went off, David. It has like almost two million. By the time this comes out, it'll be over two million views for a page that only has 105 or 6,000. And what we have seen, we've never seen growth like this ever for this page. Never. I mean, we for pretty much almost a year, we weren't growing at all, but we were remaining

stagnant. Then we started doing a couple things differently and doing more tutorials. We get slow growth, talking like a few hundred. The fact that we have thousands of people now because of this viral, one, I think it's a testament to Instagram changing their algorithm a little bit. And two, if you're listening to this and you want to grow, I think the reason people are hitting follow is because they're witnessing something that is bringing like legit value to them. So they're hitting follow. And it's wild because my page hasn't moved at all. My Instagram page has stayed stagnant to that whole time, but trading secrets has gone up big time. So if you guys don't follow Trading Secrets,

podcast, Instagram, go follow it. Trading Secrets in the Streets is a new segment we're doing, and it's taken off. And David, real quick, though, the same thing happened to my Instagram. That same video went off almost a million. Oh, we got Caitlin Bristow calling me. First timer.

Please excuse us. Yeah, I mean, come on. Galen, if you're calling, you're going to have to come on. But so the thing is, David, is it on my TikTok, the same thing happened. That video went off. I gained like $8. thousand followers.

Well, another relatable thing is she talked about how she would switch payments instead of cash payments for companies and go into like rebranded marketing strategies. We rebranded the restart Instagram to Trading Secrets podcast for opportunities to just give more content out too. And it's good to see that that is paying dividends in a very short term. Yeah, exactly. And we're also the one is it's a synergy, right? That Instagram now correlates this podcast, which is doing great. And then we could also monetize more effectively because brands better

understood. Like, oh, okay, you guys have a podcast. It's your Instagram. We could do advertising on the Instagram. Or if I'm doing an ad, like we talked a lot about ads on this podcast with Ms. Bernstein. I like how you keep calling her Ms. You like that? I don't know why.

I'm going to keep it going. She's a very formal person. I could do like a collab deal on my personal page and then add a post or two on the Trading Secrets, Instagram page. So it's been great. It's been good. That's a great start to the pod. And what else we got, David? I know you're a very observant man. What else did you pick up on? Well, first, before I get into details about her, you need to, you kind of teased from her training secret. She said her training

secret was, which we've never heard get a good lawyer, which obviously has paid her a lot of dividends for you. You said you had a story that you wanted me to bring up in the recap of you getting burned by not having a lawyer or a good lawyer. I'm not sure which one of the two it was. I honestly have like, I have like a hundred stories. I have like so many stories of not. So the biggest issue I've had with brand deals that I could think off top of my head is I become too frugal and on some of them I don't hire an attorney. And if I hired an attorney, I would have been better protected.

And there's a few deals where the brand wasn't happy, let's say, in one case, wasn't happy with the performance. And so they tried to negotiate their way out of it. So we're only going to pay you seven. And unfortunately, then the cost of getting the attorney wasn't worth the 30% discount. And so I had to take a haircut on some deals. That happened to one. Another, I didn't have an attorney look into it. And I didn't realize that there was a performance metric that if I didn't perform, they could cancel the contract at any time. Right. So I, so essentially what happens is it's a three post contract. Maybe it didn't perform to other. their liking or to their expectation or they're one as many likes or his comments. And they could after the first post, pay you for the post, delete the rest of the contract. So there are all these clauses that I learned the hard way because I didn't have an attorney. And if I had an attorney, the thousands that cost me, I would have saved. And the other thing is, is sometimes it takes

fall on your face to learn. And with my talent management company, now I know all those clauses, all those ins and outs, and we partner with attorneys on the deals that make sense to. So when in doubt, get an attorney, it can save your ass. And when in doubt, get insurance. It can protect you like no other. I can echo that because some of the immigration attorneys I've had during all my visas and green cards and stuff, they definitely save my ass and just helping get shit straight and be more efficient.

And at the end of the day, save you time and money too, which is, you know, one. either there. So, all right, let's get in the mute of this. You good with it? Let's go. All right. One thing that I thought was really cool at the start of the episode, she talked about basically doing what we're doing now. She really talked about exposing Instagram and influencers making money as a blogger, which I thought was really cool and relatable. But at the end of the day, this girl's smart and I felt like I was sitting in like a strategic planning meeting between the two of you and like a business sense. And I was like, you know, things going over my head. So one thing that went, didn't go over my head, but I think I kind of want a little more

detailed explanation is she was talking about her swimsuit sales in her first drop. Two to three million dollars in swimsuit sales. You said two, you referenced two million. And then she said it actually was closer to three if you include wholesale. So give me an example of, you know, different stores or how it works between direct to consumer, which I think I understand and wholesale, the two different types of the sales that were coming in from that. What are the differences between those? Yeah, let's also talk about real quick, three million. Think about how many pieces that is, right? You're talking about like 10,000 plus pieces. Like, that's a fucking big amount for someone who just dropped out of school and started a brand. That's crazy. Okay, wholesale versus direct

to consumer. I want you to give you two examples. The easiest, easiest example. You ever have a membership to BJs or Costco? Yes. And you go in, there's just fucking pallets everywhere. just pallets everywhere, right? That's a wholesale model. They buy these big fucking pallets. Obviously, now it's direct to consumer, but it's wholesale. It looks like a storage. And the thing is, is you're getting a discount on buying in bulk. That's what wholesale is. Vers when you walk into a Wegmans, a Kroger, a Publix, and you go buy a four pack of toilet paper. When you go to Costco or BJ's, you buy the 32 pack and you get discount wholesale. Greater, larger amount, and cheap. per unit pricing. That is like a basic example. I'll give you a better example. Wholesailing in financial world, right? There are financial advisors you work with. Okay. So maybe you go to an advisor that works at Morgan Stanley. That advisor can offer you products from A to Z. All those products that they can carry in their chest, they come from wholesalers of all these different organizations.

So Morgan Stanley doesn't have all these different products. They work with wholesalers all over the country that have one specific product that they sell to the financial advisor, hoping the advisor ends up selling to David. So think about wholesale for the bathing suit perspective. She would sell 2,000 units to Target. Target would then sell it to David's wife or David's mother. right so that is a wholesale in three different examples love it that was good covered the board there one thing that i thought was fascinating about her and i know you probably did too is she talked about obviously like the marrying in a deal switching her cash payments to advisor shares for

revaned and marketing strategy obviously the success that she had with well bell the hair product hair lengthener maybe i should try some of that out and get away from the uh the Rochester fade that i always have every day um and she did close it's going to do close to 10 million dollars and sales that year. Just your overall take on that, that approach, that savviness, like recognizing that, like I said, this girl sharp's attack. Yeah, I mean, first of all, a few things. My biggest takeaway from that is, you remember at the, I just talked about this, but do you remember on the, at the dinner table when Caitlin said she thinks I should shave my hair and die at bleach blonde? Like, what was that? Do you think there's, like, if there's anyone in the group that would actually

agree with Caitlin, it's you because no one else did in that scenario, do you think she has a point? I think that it would be like shock and awe like get people talking in the streets like yeah I just don't see how that would be good but anyway yeah we built if you guys I think it sounds like a hell of a product what was her number with that 10 million 10 million in sales this area 10 million in sales

I'll tell you what it's unbelievable I love the idea love the idea of starting to do that more often I've only done that with one deal where I took equity instead of cash or a blend I want to do it with more deals, and I actually like the way that she said how she wants to sit on the board. I think that's a brilliant play for networking and relationship building. And that's one of my trading secrets from her. She thinks differently with all of her approaches.

So instead of being like the order taker, like, hey, Jason, go do this post for $25,000. She's thinking differently like, actually, give me five, give me some equity, and also give me a board seat. And that is such a smarter way of thinking. And she did that. When she said the Forbes 3 for 30, when she said my goal was to make Forbes 30 under 30 by 25. Like, who is thinking about that at 20 years old? Like, I wonder, like, are we just born in boxes where we limit, like, our ceiling?

Like, who thinks about it? Like, that's something that would never even cross my mind. And maybe that's a community she grew up. And maybe it's something that her mother or father achieved. But to me, it's like she's always thinking, one step either ahead, left, right, or diagonal differently than like your conventional approach. And I think that's what's made her so successful. I agree, too. I mean, she dropped out of school, too, to pursue all these things, like, from a street photographer to a blogger,

and then all of a sudden, like, how can you possibly have a goal to be Forbes under 30 by 25 when that's like your foundation? You know, some people are just built different. But I also think some people who, you know, when you divert from the norm and try and really push the boundaries, you get greater successes. And then your easier example to point out to because it's so rare for people to do what she did. It's really, really incredible. Let's try this, David. Let's try one and let's actually follow up, because we're not the best of following up your crypto portfolio. The updates. So I want to follow up. I want to try her strategy once this week. And we're going to come back to the table, put in your notes, let's put it in the, in the calendar. Trying to do one thing

this week where you're pushing the boundary of what you know. Maybe someone offers you something. Maybe it's a conversation. Maybe it's a goal you set for the week. Like really push the boundary. That's like ridiculous. That's a different approach. And let's come back and talk a little bit about that. Because I think it's something anyone can do. It's just we get so stuck in our norms of what we think the expectation should be becomes a reality. And then that becomes what occurs. All right. So let's show up to next recap

with what that thing is. And then the next week after that, we'll execute. Because I think I need some time to figure out what it is. And then I need to have a week plan to ready to execute it. So I like that idea.

Okay. I like it. Done. So she sold two to three million in swimsuit sales in the first 12 hours of her drop. I want to know, A, what is the update

with our merch? Are we getting merch? And B, in our first 12 hours, what would be a number that you would be happy with that we sold than merch in the first 12 hours. I don't know, like 200.

I was going to say 250, and I'm going to be 200 of that. Caitlin and I did a line together. We did a restart line with the duet. And that sold out in the 24 hours. And it was like, I don't know, it was something like eight grand. But we knew that because we only had like,

I think it was like 100 units. So the bigger question, David, is like for the merch, like if we did merch, first of all, it would be nothing like her stuff, right? That's like legitimate. It would be something that's catchy that's like fun, cool to wear.

I don't know what would. we would sell, though. What do you think? Hoodies? Notepads? Like... I would like to do something also like trading secrets is like money related. So I could see some kind of like, I don't know, sleek little wallet, like something that goes in girls' purses, like a credit card holder, uh, notepads. Obviously you got to go standard hoodie, like maybe like a man purse that kind of goes around the front. Like those are in style these days. Okay. I agree with you. I do think something that's more money focused would make sense. I got to tell you about this. Mindy Lehman just made me the coolest piece of art. And so this piece of art, David, I'm going to show you right now. It is a monopoly board, okay? And it's a trading secrets monopoly board. And on every piece, there's a trading secret. It is the actual, it's the actual guest's trading secret in a QR code. You can scan to get that episode or scan to get other things. I'm curious what people would think of this logo. It'd be interesting to get people's feedback on that. So maybe we could do something with this. I don't know. Or maybe.

we could do something else. You've also gone to the people before for the cover of your book, which I think went over pretty well. Yeah. Maybe you, maybe you, you know, we got 15,000 new followers on the Instagram. Maybe we put a little, hey, here's some logos. Here's some things we're doing to put on our merch. Okay. What, you know, what is it? And then maybe you put one of those fun little text box and say, what would you buy? I like it. If trading secrets had merch, what would you buy? All right, guys, go follow the trading secrets Instagram page. We're going to look for some feedback. If you give us five stars on Apple, as always, and let us know, like, is there a form of merch you need? Is there some type of thing in your wallet that would be helpful? It's a type of

clip, a type of something. Maybe it's like, maybe it's even like a card of like the 10 golden rules with anything, like tipping, spending, like to think about when you're out there. I don't know. We'll think through it. We got to come up with something because, you know, Ms. Bernstein said we need ownership with more. It'll generate more revenue and hopefully add more value. David, what's next on your list. All right, last thing I got for you, we talked about the $2.33 million in swimsuit sales on the first $12 drop,

which means all the other drops, she's got to be raking it in. $10 million in sales from Wellbell. You asked her what her biggest revenue income sources. She said by far her brand, you followed up with what is your number. She said everyone has a number. I'm not comfortable sharing.

You spent some time with her in the presence, in her home in the Hamptons. What do you think her number is to sell her brand? That's a great. question. I think it's got to be some, you think it's got to be a B. Okay. Okay. So let's just, let's back into this. Two, three million in two days, right? So that's about a million, it was 12 hours. Okay. So two million. And that was her first drop. That was like infancy. And now she's, she's been humming since then. Okay. So let's say it's two million a day, right?

Let's just say, call it a day. There's, if that's one of her marquee moments, she's not doing two million a day, obviously. The money it takes to prepare for a drop is material. The time and effort for a drop, it's big. So let's estimate that she does somewhere in the 30 million space on a revenue basis. It's an estimate. But guys, everything here we're saying is non-factual. If it's 30 million, and let's say, I'm going to, the huge margins, let's assume profitability of like five million-ish you want to try and sell. I don't know what this industry sells. that when companies are buying, but let's say it's high. Let's say it's like 10, 15 times. I bet you her goal is to sell this company for 100 million bucks. Okay. That's my guess.

That seems very doable. I mean, that right there, folks, is the difference between David Ardoin and Jason Tarduk breaking down a situation. I'm screaming out a bill, a billy. What were you going to say? A billion? I just, that's what I said. I said, it's got to be a B, right? Well, you broke it down. You know, you did the two plus 30 a year, plus profitability is five and I'm still over here just having a dance party thing about a billion. Yeah, but you know what, Ms. Birchstein might be listening to be like, Tardick, you're way fucking off, buddy. 100 million.

We do 100 million in a year in revenue. I don't know. I think she might be. I think she might be. Anyways, great episode. You know, humbling for me because she's just smarter than I am. And that's good for her because she's smarter. And I think more success.

Her resume is a lot more stacked in years. mine can buy. I mean, 30 under 30 at 25, New York Times bestseller, massive company, $3 million drop in 12 hours. We got some work to do, David. Yeah, yeah, we do. But, you know, we push the fun meter when we hang on and we're together. We have a zest for life. So at least we can hang our head on that. We have a sure you can do. Maybe we'll have to do a little Hampton's rendezvous. How do we add a zero to this podcast? But you know what? We'll come up with something, David. keep it going. So far, so good. It's a grind out here. It's a grind out here. You know, for two guys at a couple mics just trying to make something on nothing coming from

Vancouver and Buffalo, New York, not too bad, but we could do better. And I think Ms. Bernstein has given us a little takeaway that all of us listening, maybe there's something we could do just a little bit better. Maybe there's an expectation we could set a little higher or think about differently than what our natural reaction will be. That'll be a takeaway for David and I. David, you got the floor before I wrap? I would just love for us to be together more often so we could go to these interviews and have her like, and like speaking of content

or IG, I would love to her just like dress us, like put us in like rooms and just put outfits on and come out and just see our reactions and just see what we like probably should be wearing from like a fashionista instead of like what we actually wear which is garbage hot garbage. I love it.

I love it. I mean you like this golf tee you're wearing what is this? Oh, this thing's free for sure. I mean, this is like a mensling. I don't think my dad would even worth that, David. I mean, and his style game is literally a 0.5 out of 10. How?

Whenever you point a finger at me, you got four point back at you, buddy, so just watch what you say. Oh, my style game. It's gotten better.

My style game's gotten better. It was definitely like a 0.5. I would say it's around a 5 out of 10. I'd go as high as 6.5. As long as you're not going at a country event, which you still haven't figured out

the country. Can't figure out that. Country Festival of Offen Matrix, but it's okay. What would you rate your, like, if you're being software, would you rate your style game? Athleisure, 9.8 out of 10. I would say, he would give himself all tens. I would say, like, going out to a bar with buddies,

I would say, like, 7.8, and I would say formalware. I'd say, like, I'd say formalware is, like, a 6.6.8, ranging to, like, the 8.1 range. but my formal wear is not as elite as I would like it to be. I think my formal wear is definitely my highest grade for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Your athlete is getting a lot better.

Athletesia is getting better. It needed my athlete leisure a few years ago was negative, negative ratings. This didn't exist. So there you go, guys. The Curious Canadian averages around the 9 out of 10. So who knows why he needs who we wore what to dress them. But David, thank you for tuned into another episode here and recap. with me. You are the man. If you're listening to this, please, please give us five stars on Apple

reviews. And please tell us what guests you want, what feedback you have, what we're doing well, what you need more of. I promise you we will read them, and I promise you we will deliver. Make sure you subscribe to our newsletter. Make sure you follow us on Instagram. Make sure you subscribe to this podcast and give us five stars. And thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets. Hopefully, one, you couldn't afford to miss. Making that money, money, living that dream. Making that money, money, money, pay on me. Making that money, money, living that dream.