Trading Secrets - 69: Financial Musts w/ Money with Katie PLUS $46K to $69.7K in 13 years of teaching to $120K+, our 1st interview w/ a listener!

Episode Date: September 12, 2022

This week, Jason is joined by Katie Gatti, the brilliant personality behind the highly regarded blog, podcast, and newsletter brand Money with Katie! In 2020, Katie started writing about personal finance and has gone on to reach a huge audience through her brand as well as covering finance topics for the popular morning newsletter Morning Brew. Katie gives insight on how inflation can be a borrower’s best friend, how having a big home can be a big liability, and reveals the best financial tips she's got.   In addition, Jason is joined by Jaci for the first ever listener interview! Jaci breaks down the all behind-the-scenes of being a teacher from the education needed to the range in salary and the importance of advocating for what you are worth. After teaching for 13 years, she left teaching for an education non-profit where she has nearly doubled her salary and uses those key skills that are gained from a teaching career.   Be sure to follow the Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram & join the Facebook group.   Sponsors: Getfirstperson.com code SECRETS for 15% off your first order of First Person   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. This is an episode like no other, and that's why I'm doing a little bit of an intro. So we have checked out all the comments in our reviews. Thank you for all the five stars. But you guys have said to us, we love your guests. They are awesome. We want to hear from the viewers, the everyday individual that's listening with this podcast. We took that advice. We ran with it. And this will be the first time ever we have a two-part segment. And if you enjoy it, give us five stars and let us know in the reviews because we will do it more often. We have the definition of what Trading Secrets podcast should be. Personal Finance, Tips and Tricks from Money with Katie, an expert in the space. and we have pay transparency from a teacher. How much she made when she started?

How much she made after 13 years of being a teacher? And why she left. And she has a massive, massive message that you need to hear. Her name is Jackie. You will hear in this episode from Money with Katie and you'll hear from the viewer, Jackie. I got the voice for viewer. Anything else we should tease, David?

What are your thoughts on this? no i'm just excited it's like when you go to a fast food restaurant you can get like a pick two for six buck meal and you get so excited on how you're going to mix and match them uh to know that we have someone in covering the personal finance which is really the core of this podcast and then paid transparency with one of our listeners this is like i'm picking two awesome things that all of our listeners have wanted so i'm super excited for the episode all right pick two six bucks two things you could pick you're at wendies what are you picking uh i'm picking the spicy sandwich and probably Dave's double.

Yeah, I'm going, I'm going to go Dave's single and the spicy chicken nuggets. Enough of us, enough of fast food. Let's get in the two for one. Let's do something we've never done on Trading Secrets podcast. Make this happen and make sure you guys tell us what you think. First, we're ringing in the bell with money with Katie. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we're joined with Katie Gaddy, the brilliant personality behind the highly regarded

blog, podcast, and newsletter brand, Money with Katie. Katie was a founding partner and the marketing lead of matriarch financial, a personal financial consulting agency, and then move to go on to content writing for Southwest Airlines, Dell Technologies, and later Meta, formerly known as Facebook. In 2020, she started writing about money after a few years of independent personal finance consulting. Now she reaches over 400,000 plus people through her. brand and covers personal finance topics for the popular daily newsletter, The Morning

Brew, ever heard of it. Katie, thank you so much for coming on today. We appreciate having you. That was maybe my favorite intro I've ever gotten. Thank you for that. We've got to build you up, get you going. We're starting strong, and we're going to stay strong, okay? But what I first figured is our listeners, we need advice. I mean, right now, it's just mayhem out there, right? I mean, inflation is crazy. The, the, market is literally a roller coaster, gas is out of control, CPI, the whole thing. Now, one of the things I got to kick off is, the one article I read, it was titled, it was on the Morning Group, titled, Inflation is a borrower's best friend. Now, I think most people will hear that,

and they never want to correlate best friend in inflation in this world with the gas prices spiking, grocery spiking, et cetera. So tell us a little bit more about that and how our listeners could take advantage of inflation, why it could be, as a borrower, their best friend. Yeah, absolutely. So I don't even know who wrote that one, but I'm glad that we've got that out there because I think the thing to remember with inflation is that it is obviously it is deteriorating the purchasing power of your dollar, which to your point doesn't sound great on the surface. But when you're borrowing money and whether that's for a home or to purchase a car or whatever else that you're buying where you're going to have a fixed recurring monthly payment, you can think of. about that payment, literally getting cheaper over time. And what I mean by that is, if anyone has ever talked to their grandma, like what it was like to live in the 50s and 60s, they've probably told you, well, our house only cost $50,000. And back then, you could get a cheeseburger for, you know, 25 cents. And today the Big Mac is five dollars. Well, that's because of inflation,

because the purchasing power of the dollar has weakened over time. So you can kind of think about it. Like if you today are sitting here and you're going to go buy a Big Mac, your $100, the Big Mac cost $5, you can buy 20 Big Macs with your $100. But if you go 15 years down the line when inflation has increased to the price of the Big Mac to, let's say, $15 per sandwich, okay, well now your same $100 buys fewer Big Macs. So the way that I think about it is when you're borrowing money, I tend to look at periods of high inflation as proof that you do not want to pay back that low interest debt much more quickly than you need to. Stick to the minimum payments, stick to the payments that you have to be making.

But don't worry about throwing more money on it, because why would you pay off debt with a dollar that can buy, or $5 that can buy one Big Mac when in 15 years from now, that same dollar is going to be able to buy less? So I think that's kind of what we mean when we say that inflationary environments are really, really good for borrowers because that debt is getting cheaper over time, assuming, of course, that your income is going up with inflation, which maybe right now we're not really seeing that as much, but typically that's the way it trends. Yep, exactly.

I think you said it best when you wrote the article and it says, since your debt doesn't adjust for inflation, your debt literally becomes cheaper over time when you lock it in. I completely agree with that too, right? you're looking at average 30-year fixed rates at about 5.5% while obviously we've seen increases, that is lower than what we've seen is a historical average overtime 30 years around 8%. So I'm with you on that totally, and I love it. You had mentioned a little bit about raises. And so one of the things I saw you talk about was the fact that you are, what you want people to focus a little bit more on let's first save $100 than worry about getting that $1,000 raise. So tell me a little bit about

that theory and any tips you'd give to our listeners as it relates to financial literacy, saving budgeting, and saving that hundred bucks. Yeah. So there's this big debate, right, in the personal finance world. It's like, should you focus on cutting back or should you focus on earning more? And at the end of the day, I think both sides have their merits and both are important to an extent. But one of those paths is inherently limited, right? Because beyond a certain point, you can't really cut back much more. There are always going to be expenses associated with being alive. So once you get your expenses to a point where you feel like, all right, I can't really cut back beyond what I've already done without meaningfully degrading my standard of living or maybe

like putting myself in a position where I'm just truly not as comfortable anymore, that's, I think, when you want to shift gears and focus on earning more, because there's, there is no limit to that upside. There's no limit to your earning potential. I think a lot of our limits are perceived, I guess, is how I would say that. And so, I mean, obviously, we've seen professional athletes that have made millions and millions of dollars and blown all of it. So it's not to say that, you know, if you only focus on earning more, you're definitely going to be fine. There's certainly precedent for for outspending yourself regardless of your income. But I do tend to think that beyond kind of that basic cursory combing through the balance

sheet and figuring out like, all right, are there any holes I need to plug? Am I a little bit wasteful in this category? Or some of these fixed expenses too high? It's like once you get that stuff on lock, I think your energy is so much better devoted to earning more than to continue like kind of down that path of diminishing returns with cutting back expenses. And frankly, I think it's just a little bit more fun. Like, it's a more gratifying use of that energy to find new ways to make money and to go for the raises and whatever. So when I say that sometimes it's easier to save the hundred than to make

the thousand, I think what I'm really referring to is the fact that any dollar that you save is going to be a post-tax dollar. So that's theoretically worth more than a pre-tax dollar, because it obviously hasn't had a, you've already paid the tax on it. So a dollar saved is technically worth more than a dollar earned. So I think that's kind of where that mentality comes from is like you definitely want to be conscious of the spending and make sure that you're not being wasteful. But beyond a certain point, it's like you're not going to gain much by like canceling the $10 Hulu description.

Like if things are not jiving in the budget, it's not the Netflix subscription that's causing the problem. Yeah, I do like that idea of like, you know, you obviously look at earnings and then you look at savings, thinking about savings as about, you know, 1.4 X of what you're actually, you know, earning because or what you're saving, right? So you save a buck, that's 1.4x of gross income. And I do like the thought process of every buck saved is about 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1 and a half times what you're doing. So if you're doing it at the same rate, obviously you'll be more successful with the savings. Yes, absolutely. For sure. So one thing we're getting a lot of conversation about. First-time homebuyers. Oh my gosh, what a mess. Interest rates are going up. The prices are out of control. We've seen, and just in February, I think we saw a 20% year-over-year increase in the asset of a home that's more than we've seen since the 80s. These poor first-time home buyers, you've got to be kidding me. I actually read something recently that in the Great Depression, the total household income, the total household income as a percentage of the value of the house, was greater than it is today. which is eye-opening. And one of the things you had talked about is everyone focuses on a home, everyone focuses on a home, but a big home could be a big liability. So for some of those first-time

home buyers, or maybe someone in the market looking to upsize or get another home, tell people what you meant by that. Yeah, I always think of like duck and cover when I talk about homeownership, because it's such an emotional topic, right? Especially in America, like we have definitely been sold this dream and this vision of homeownership is like the ultimate path to wealth. And particularly if you're looking at people that just going to throw this out there, like bought in 2009 or 2010 right after the big market crash and then have now rode this asset inflation, expansionary monetary policy fueled wave up, it's very easy from that viewpoint to say, oh, my God, best investment ever. But I think what we have to do is zoom out a little bit, first of all, and see, historically speaking, is that normal? Spoiler alert, not really. like there are other factors at play here that are causing that to happen. But when I call it a liability,

what I really mean by that is the bigger the home, the higher the kind of ancillary periphery costs are going to be. And I think this is something that we rarely hear kind of discussed in the popular like discourse around homeownership. Like we do talk about the fact that the homes cost more now. Or, you know, we hear a lot about interest rates. But there's so much more to that picture that I feel just gets glossed over. And I know it gets glossed over because I remember going through that process myself before I really had the level of financial literacy I have today. And it wasn't until the point at which, you know, I'm like talking to lenders and like about to put in an offer that the realtor is like, oh yeah, by the way, the property taxes are 2%. So that's going to be about an additional

$10,000 a year. You're like, wait a second. That changes the entire calculus of whether I should be renting or buying right now. And it turns out that when you do factor in things like property taxes, insurance, mortgage interest, and frankly, like maintenance and just capital expenditure, like the roof has to be replaced. The HVAC unit goes out. I think people would be shocked if they were to sit down with a spreadsheet from like closing on the house to year 10 and just tallied up every single outflow of cash required for that asset to keep it up. running and like legally tenable, I think they'd be shocked to see that like even if you can get a decent year over year return or annualized average return on that home, most people are kind of breaking

even. And so I think that understanding that those associated peripheral costs are proportional is really, really key. If you're buying the bigger house, that means your property tax bill is going to be higher. That means you need to pay more in insurance. That means the chances that you're going to have nicer finishes that require more upkeep. It's kind of a never-ending money pit, which is fine if you have the money and you value that and you want the big nice house. But where I see people, particularly young people, kind of get in over their heads is and maybe stretch themselves a little bit thin to get in a house that they really might not have much business being in, is this mentality? Like, well, it's okay because it's an investment. It's just going to go up over

time. Like, what's the worst thing that could happen? So I've seen people that will save and save and deploy all of their capital for that down payment and then six months in, a pipe bursts and insurance is giving them a hard time and they got to meet a deductible. And so it just, people will find themselves in kind of dicey spots. And so I think that understanding that like the bigger house usually just means the more liabilities you're going to be saddled with is just a good like reality check before you make such a huge decision. Yeah, gray reality check. And guys, if there's anything that was said or is said in this beginning part that you're confused about, stay tuned for the recap. We'll break it down with

the Curious Canadian because I am sure he'll be a little confused too. But that being said, I do think the whole premise of, I mean, listen, guys, there are so many sophisticated ways that I think you could leverage debt to increase your overall net worth and take full advantage of appreciation. But those are a little bit more sophisticated tactics. In general, like what Katie's saying, I think the idea of over extending yourself, right, and putting a small percentage down while your entire, you know, balance sheet and personal financial statement isn't in crisp shape could lead to a disaster, right? I mean, you could lead to some serious cash flow issues and debt issues if some of these items come up. And so to be fully prepared, especially in a time

like this with the costs of things and hiring contractors and the turnaround time. It's a really good food for thought. So we'll talk a little bit more about that in the recap. Stay tuned. Now, Katie, I know you don't have the mirror ball. And I know that, oh my God, I said mirror ball. I'm thinking dancing with the stars. You don't have the ball with all the answers that you could see what's going to happen.

The crystal ball. The crystal ball. What you want to do with Katie would be a much bigger brand. Let's get money with Katie going. I'd dance with the stars. We'll get her the mirror ball. There's one downstairs. We'll have to bring it up.

But you don't have the crystal ball with all the answers. So I know you have to be careful with the advice that you do give. But just in general, from an education standpoint, which is what you do on a day-to-day basis, people are in this predicament, right? Because every day they're seeing the market, it's getting crushed. But every single day, they're sitting on cash and they know it's being depleted. From an education standpoint, and again, anyone that's listening, Katie's not saying go do it. But just from an education standpoint, how do you handle this predicament that everybody's

asking about. Yeah. Well, it's funny because I think most young people right now have only ever invested in a bull market. And I think when you see during a bull market, you see that every time you put money in the next day, for the most part, obviously there are little ups and downs, but for the most part, we were seeing, what, 15, 20 year, year over year returns. And I think when you live in that environment for too long and when it's really the only investing environment you've ever known, it can be hard to remember that the stock market does not only go up. And part of the reason you're rewarded with 15 to 20 percent year over year return sometimes is because of the risk premium that you are accepting by investing in the stock market. If it were risk free,

if it only ever went up, you would never get a 15 to 20 percent return. So, It is that risk-reward balance. I think, like, right now we're just experiencing kind of the flip side of having a bull market run that was, what, 10 years. So I think that's A. B, I would say that we all have probably heard that advice to buy and hold. And it's really easy to buy and hold when everything that you're putting in is going up in value.

It's like, oh, yeah, got this on lock. I can buy and hold all day. Well, it's a lot harder to buy and hold when you feel like you're just like shoveling money into an incinerator. And every time you log in, you're like, I have 5,000 less than I did yesterday. Well, let me put more in. I think that that's something that, like, the only way to deal with that and to invest successfully through those periods is truly to go through those periods. I don't think there is any substitute for actually experiencing that mental turmoil yourself and constantly flexing that muscle and coming back to history, coming back to the fact.

and being able to remind yourself like, hey, I'm in this for the long game. And if you're not in it for the long game, you probably shouldn't be in it at all. Because, you know, from a day to day week to week basis, whether the market's going to be up or down, it's a 50-50 shot, you're basically gambling. But, you know, over any 15 to 20-year period in the United States stock market, the chances that you're going to make money not lose it is 100%. 100% of the time over any 15 to 20-year period, you're going to make money. So as long as you are okay with that timeline. And as long as you can consistently remind yourself of that, that that's the horizon. It doesn't matter what stocks are doing in June of 2022. You're concerned about what stocks are doing in June of 2042. As long as they're higher in 2042, like you're good, right? So I think those are the things that I'll remind myself. The other little nugget that I've kind of clung on to, especially this year, because it's just been such a bloodbath, is I'll look at the number of shares and try to focus on like not the dollar amount, but the number of shares that I own and reminding myself that like that number isn't going down. I haven't lost anything.

I still own the same number of shares. I'm getting more shares right now at a discount of, you know, whatever it is, whatever ETF index funds individual stock it is. And I think that that kind of like mental shift has helped me get over that like amygdala animal brain instinct of like, I'm losing money. It's like you're really not. You're not. You haven't lost anything until you sell. So that is how I try to think about it. And I think the reality is that like millionaires are made in the bear markets. It's the people that consistently dollar cost average and dump money into a market that is down that really benefit from the upside when it's up. So I think it's that like famous Warren Buffett quote of like be greedy when people are fearful and fearful when people are greedy.

I think that 100% applies here. It defies all, you know, intuitive logic. but I think coming back to the data is always a really good way to ground yourself and like it's going to be okay. You just got to stick to your long-term timeline. Right. And it's the data and analytics that usually will like get people in the game. And then like you said, it's the emotional balancing act that will really put people in crazy spins. And I think everyone needs to be fully prepared for that, especially in this market. I mean, just look at the last year and ask yourself before buying or entering, is that something

you're ready to stomach, especially given the upside, downside, and everything in between. But like you said, I mean, when you look at the historical returns of the major indexes, it's net net positive. That is for sure. Let's let's end with this. Little layup here. We'll do like Katie's special advice here. Love a layup. We're going to do it advice. Yours, tailor it to whatever you want. The best financial tip, the worst financial tip you've received. Let's hear it. What do you got for us? That's a good one. I think the best financial tip. It's a really simple one, but I think it kind of helps to come back to basics sometimes

because this is a world where the deeper you go in the financial world, the more you realize that you don't know anything. So it's like at this point, I can objectively say, I know more than I have ever known. And I'm also aware that I know, like, I still know nothing. I mean, there's just so much out there. So I think sometimes coming back to basics and reminding yourself of like the core, the core equation, the core formula. And to me, that is, earn more, spend less, invest the difference. Like, everything comes down to that. You can make plenty of mistakes, but as long as you can do those three things, you're going to be okay. Even if your investment strategy is not very aggressive or not very bold, even if you are not a super high earner,

even if you are not a super conservative or frugal spender, as long as you are like living beneath your means and diligently investing that margin, you know, on a monthly basis and then bringing that consistency and discipline to the equation, I think that that's probably the best way to boil it down for anyone that's like, I just don't know where to start. Like, I think that is, that is the thing to get your arms around. And each piece of that, obviously you can dig into, but earn more, spend less, invest the difference. When it comes to the worst financial, like, there's like, where do you start? Yeah, there's so much more that you could go into. I'm going to reference honestly two things we've already talked about. I think the idea that buying or

owning is always better than renting, that I just cringe. I just cringe. I think anyone that's in a situation where they feel like it could go either way, I would love to put you on to the price to rent ratio. It's something that you can look up for your specific location. So love the price to rent ratio. It basically tells you, it's a number that will tell you if it's more expensive to be a homeowner or a renter in your area. So, like, for example, San Francisco, price to rent ratio, 50. That means you could pay for 50 years of rent for the price of, like, one home is proportional. It's like, how much money would you have to spend to buy for every thousand you spend in rent?

Whereas, like, a Detroit, Michigan, price to rent ratio is eight. So, like, eight years of rent, you could outright own a home. So people will say, like, as long as it's below that 23, 24 number, that usually means it's going to be cheaper to own. And if it's above that 23, 24 number, that usually means it's going to be outright cheaper to rent. So I would say that always buy a house no matter what advice terrifies me. I also think they're like paying off low interest debt early or this like I feel like we have this concept in the United States that I don't know if it's like a Puritan thing or Dave Ramsey thing or what. But this idea that like all debt is bad and that

you should not be in debt and like you should be buying a brand new car in cash in full. you said earlier, generally speaking, like, using leverage intelligently is, it's a huge trick of the wealthy. Like, that is a huge way that wealthy people become wealthier is using leverage. So I think this idea that all debt is bad or there's this like immoral, shameful quality to debt is really damaging because I think it puts us in a position where we don't take risks and where maybe like the student loan conversation, for example, we like really shame borrowers where like you invested in yourself. If you got a degree and took out debt to do it, the chances that that is going to pay off someday and there's going to be a good ROI on that debt is probably

pretty good. So I think that kind of general thought process of like avoid debt at all costs is also probably my other like cringy one. Yeah. And one of the ones I think that I think we're in agreement with too is what Dave Ramsey's philosophy of pay your smallest amount down first. See, I totally disagree with that, especially just because the numbers, right? If it's a low interest rate, no, and it's a really small amount and a small structure, it doesn't make sense to do it other than you're developing good habits. So I'll tell someone it's like, that thought process is like, okay, you want to start working out and start eating well. So you say you're going to, you know, go on a walk for six minutes. Well, it's a little counterproductive. If you really want to get the ball moving,

pay that expensive down, that debt down further and just recognize you're doing the right as opposed to the inexpensive debt, even though it's a smaller amount. Awesome. Well, Katie, thank you for all that advice. Guys, if there's anything that was confusing you, I am sure the Curious Canadian will be confused by some of that. So we will wrap it up in the recap. We got to leave with the trading secret.

What do you got for us? A trading secret with money with Katie, what can you leave us with? I think this is going to sound so, so simple, so silly, but I credit a lot of my, like, knowledge to this, and it's this thing right here. having a phone in your pocket. Like, you have more information available to you today than the president of the United States had in 1990 in your pocket. So I always think, like, find the medium that just, like, really resonates with you.

For me, it's podcasts and audiobooks. And just be a ravenous consumer of ideas. Like, everything that I know about personal finance, about money, I learned from the people that I found on podcast. apps in audio books and the books on the bookshelf. Like, there is no shortage of information. You can learn whenever you want to learn for free. And I think that consistently has proven to be like the number one best way that

I have continued to improve myself, find unique earning opportunities, learn about how to invest the money I do have. I think I would be lost without it. So as simple as that is and as silly as that is, I think just like making those little changes in your day where like if you're going for a walk, listening to the podcast, if you're taking your dog to the park, you're like putting on the audio book, you're going to be driving in the car for an hour. Like, I think there's just so, there's so many little opportunities in the day to learn something new that it's honestly quite passive. So yeah, I think that would be my

trading secret. It's a pretty, it's a pretty cheap way to gain a lot of knowledge. I love it. And I think there's a lot of like simplicity to it, but there's so much, I think, efficiency with right? When you think about, like you said, the ability of multitasking. You're already in the car driving. Utilize it, right? You're already on the treadmill running. What else you're going to do? Utilize it. You might even run longer because you're actually engaged with something. I mean, it's so much better than sitting there staring down at it, just like scrolling TikTok. Like that has a time in place. That's fine. But I definitely think like we underestimate the amount of time that we spend on our phones. So like you might as well be improving yourself or like enriching your

brain while you're using it. So, yeah. And the idea of when you are scrolling, right, I mean, it takes every single sense. It takes your touch, your sight, you're hearing, you're listening, takes everything. You could be doing so many other things while still consuming that information that can make a huge impact on your life. And it did for you. So Katie, congratulations. Thank you so much for coming on. It was great to have you. People want Moria and they're like, I need more of that advice. I didn't get enough. I need to listen to her podcast. We're going to find everything you got going on. Yeah, absolutely.

So we're pretty much Money with Katie on every platform. So Money WithKatty.com, Money with Katie on Instagram and Twitter, and then the Money with Katie show on pretty much wherever you get your podcasts, you'll find us. Beautiful. Money with Katie across the board. And sooner than later, I'll be a guest on your show. I'm looking forward to that.

Absolutely. And Katie, thank you so much for joining me today and Trading Secrets. Thanks, Jason. I really appreciate it. The tips and tricks from Money with Katie were unbelievable. Stay tuned to the recap. We will dive into all. but for now, for the first time ever, we are going to go to one of the Trading Secrets viewers

to talk about their career. Okay, we are trading secrets with the viewers. Who is with us today? Hi, my name is Jackie Fabian. Jackie, where are you from? I'm from Chicago, Illinois. From Chicago, one of my favorite cities. And do you currently live in Chicago?

I will be starting two weeks from now. I just bought my dream condo in the West Loop. Oh my God. Oh my God. The West Loop's amazing. You bought a dream condo. That is huge. Congratulations. Thank you. Let's back into how those dreams came true because I got to imagine it stemmed with some type of earnings from your career. Yeah. So I was a teacher actually for 13 years. And if anyone knows anything about teacher's salary, it's not great. And so last year, I made a really difficult decision to leave teaching. And I now work for a education nonprofit. I've almost doubled my salary just in a year. And, you know, really that just draws attention to, you know, the pay disparity in education because it had not been for me leaving,

which was a really difficult decision, I would not be able to have the place that I'm going to be moving into soon. Oh my God. That is such an amazing story. Thank you for sharing all that. let's back into when you were a teacher. So in Chicago area, if someone was like, I'm interested in maybe becoming a teacher, how many years of education do you need? So in Illinois, you do need a bachelor's degree. For most districts, it's pretty common that shortly after you start teaching, you get your master's. So another two years of schooling. I was in my third year of teaching when I began my master's program. Amazing. Okay. So you started your master's, program third year of teaching when you started teaching what grade was it high school i taught ninth grade

english god bless you so how old are you starting teaching the high school like 21 i was yeah i was 22 when i started so my god 22 and you went right into the mix that had to be a quite the learning experience what do you get paid or what do teachers in the illinois area get paid when they start out right out so when i started in 2008 i was making about 46 000 dollars and a year. Okay. And that's with the bachelors. Understood. Okay. And then after your, I think, I believe you said 13 years, right? After your 13 years, like right when you left, what was your salary as a teacher at that point? So this is the part that people don't really know about teaching is if you move districts, you don't always get the amount of years that you worked in education.

So when I left my district, I had 12 years under my belt, but I was only getting paid. is a fifth year teacher. So when I left education, I was making 69-7. Got it. So if you transition districts, all those years serve sometimes don't correlate to what that next district will take. So would you, if someone is a current teacher listening this, would you advise against moving districts or what's your take on that? Yeah, that's a great question. I think it really all depends on, you know, your environment, how supported you feel and really, you know, weighing. the options in terms of, you know, work-life balance was a really big thing for me. And, you know,

I knew that the most I would be making for a while was less than 80,000. And I really needed to decide, like, work-life balance versus, you know, doing three extracurriculars and teaching classes to teachers, was that worth, you know, the salary. So. I love it. I think it's amazing that you were in the field for so long. You made such an impact, but recognized for your personal and financial success, you had to make a transition. Looking back at the teaching industry, what advice would you have or what do you think needs to be done different so that teachers aren't in this position where, you know, 13 years of service, they're like, if I want one, I want out of life, I got to leave. What could they do different? Yeah, I think as teachers and as educators,

we just really need to start advocating for what we're worth. And I know there's a lot of that happening in the field currently, given everything that happened with COVID, I wanted to come on here because I wanted to talk about the pay disparity, which a lot of people don't always know. And so, you know, just drawing attention to the fact that when I was making around 75K, I was doing three extracurriculars, teaching courses to teachers on top of my normal five class schedule. So it's a lot that goes into getting that salary increase. And I had a master's. So, you know, I really think it's just raising awareness and telling our stories. Our stories are so powerful.

And I really think the more that people share those, the more that people will start to listen. I love that. And I'm so glad you did tell your story. Tell a little bit more about your story of how you made the transition. Because there might be some teachers out there or people that are just in a certain career track that feel there's some pay disparity. And they need to use their skill set in a different way. But people get stuck. They don't know how to navigate.

You did that and then doubled your pay. What recommendations would you have for someone that feels like they're stuck and wants to make the transition out? Yeah. So I would say really just honing in on what skills teachers have every day. We're project managers. We sell things every day. We're trying to sell our curriculum to our students. We're really great communicators. All of those things are really helpful in a lot of different industries. I knew I didn't want to leave education entirely. And so I was really actively searching in the nonprofit. field. And so, you know, I knew a lot of the skills that I had in the classroom are going to translate to project management, for example, which is what I started doing in my organization. I now do something a little bit different, but really just making sure that, you know, you know how to talk about those skills that you do every day as a teacher. We are great time management. We are great in time management. We are really great in, you know, again, building those relationships, working with external

stakeholders. All of those things are things that you need to do, you know, if you choose to leave education. There are so many skill sets that you guys have. I mean, your communication, you're running a presentation, the leadership, time management, the patients dealing with those kids and probably some of the assholes in there. Excuse my language. So God bless teachers, you guys are the best. Quickly tell me a little bit about now what you do. So we talked about your skill set and then the transition you made. You doubled your pay. So now you're in the six-figure range, you buy a condo. What are you doing now with your skill set and in your current position? Yeah, so I currently work, it's called the senior manager of candidate experience

and with an emphasis on diversity, equity, and inclusion. So a lot of what I do is I really try to hone in our programming for teachers and ensure that everything that we're offering is equitable for all teachers really hones in on that sense of belonging in the education field. We do a lot of advocacy work as well, all things that I'm really passionate about. So I'm really grateful that I was able to land in the organization that I'm currently in. That is awesome. And I have to imagine, like you said, if you didn't make that transition, you probably wouldn't be able to have or afford the condo that you currently have. Yeah. And I also have some time to do some tutoring as well. So I'm not entirely out of, you know, out of the realm, which is wonderful. I have

some time, you know, to also be in contact with students when I do have that opportunity, which is really great. Amazing. I love it. That is so great. If people are hearing your story and they have some questions for you how to transition out or what you currently do, where can they find you, Jackie? Yeah, so I'm on Twitter at Jack Fab 21. And yeah, that's really the biggest piece of social media I use. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's an amazing story. I love the transition and the restart. And can Congratulations so much on the new transition and the condo. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell to a wild episode. This is the first time we've ever done anything like this, but we did it because you guys in the reviews told us. We have a viewer, a trading secret viewer coming on and telling us their life story, the teacher from 40K to 60K to doubling her salary and the parents. paid disparity within the teaching realm. And then we have personal finance, money with Katie, all the things we love about trading secrets, personal finance and pay transparency.

We hit it on this episode and we did it because you, the viewers, have given us five-star ratings and said you want more everyday stories. And guess what? You're going to get segments like this. Every podcast should you enjoy it. But David, I got you with me, the Curious Canadian. I hope you took a whole hell of a lot of notes because this was a lot of. an episode between the pay transparency and all those personal finance tips. I mean,

the sophistication of money with Katie and her personal finance acumen is deep. And I am sure you got lost a little bit. So I'm hoping you took some good notes. Yeah, I mean, who doesn't love a two for one combo episode? Awesome guests. Took a lot out of it. But yeah, I'm crushing notes. I know you're used to me doing notes on my notes app on the phone. But I got the new Dell latitude at 9430 laptop. And this thing is elite. Yeah, I think we got to give a shout out to them. So we have a Dell sponsorship, and we just got new equipment. It's the Dell Latitude 9-4-30 laptop.

So it's 94-30, but what do you think about it so far? What's your favorite part about it? I mean, it's just, it's easy to use. I can take it anywhere with me. You know hockey season's underway, whether it's on the bus, whether it's in a hotel, where it's a coffee shop, getting my fuel before a game, at the rank, crushing video, whatever I need to do, I just take it everywhere with me. It's been really easy to use, nice to have.

I love it. It's a huge upgrade from the Notes app. Yeah. And my favorite part about it for sure since taking it on is the enhanced camera and the safe shutter feature. I mean, especially when we're doing a lot of zooms and I'm always on the go, that's an unbelievable part about it with a built-in F-HD camera webcam as well. And then I think another part that's huge is that none of my laptops have had before is the speaker phone on the Dell latitude. it allows me hear like every detail because it's got the top and bottom firing speakers. And then just like the whole side, I mean, these days with all the safety stuff, it's out of control.

So that whole feature that they were telling us about with the onlooker detection that will alert us if unwelcome onlookers and individuals are going after our data. It protects our data on our screen. It's the new equipment of trading secrets. And yeah, you'll see us talking about it on our social. media because we are all team Dell and we are all locked up with the Dell latitude. So you're enjoying it. It's good. It's working for you. Loving it. The onlooker detection is elite. It's like privacy screen on steroids. So I love that. There you go. If you're in the market for a new laptop, go check out. Dell latitude 9430. All right, David, here we go. Let's get into it. You got

your notes. You got your notes on the Dell. Where do you want to start? Because we could start in so many directions. Before we get into that, we got to follow up on the food tracker. We had What's Cuckoole with Gabby. Awesome episode. I think she loved it. She promoted it on across all our channels. We were talking, I mean, that recap got off the rails a little bit. Did we know money with Katie?

Did people like that or no? Honestly, I've been checking every morning and I haven't seen a review about it, so I don't know if that's good or bad. Well, Peggy Moore texted me and said, I loved the banter at the end. So I think that's a good indicator. And Money with Katie got in the Big Mac talk about like talking about the power of dollar with inflation. I was like, no more Big Mac talk, no more fast food talk. We already went in the weeds about this, but let's follow up on our food tracker because mine's pretty funny. So I don't know if you want me to go first or you want to let me know how much you spent last week. Oh, look it,

look it. We did. David, I just looked. K. M. Mish. K. Mish said more banter. She loved the banter at the end of the episode. Add more of that, please. All right. That is Katie, M-I-C-H-A-L-T-Z on Instagram. Thank you so much for that feedback. We'll be shouting people out when they give it to us and we'll be listening. But I agree with you, David. We did the tracker. Let's talk about it. In the last week, how much did you spend on money and alcohol? All right. This is twofold for me. Okay. I personally only spent $26 and 39 cents on food last week. Go fuck yourself. How is that possible? Because every time I go on the road for a road trip, everything's paid for. Because of this. Yeah, but what about

what about your groceries at home? What about going out for a drink? What about a quick fast food run? What about Uber eats, postmates? Very resourceful of me. I had dinner at the school because we had training camp last week before we left. So I had dinner with my team every night, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

I had takeout. I got Fah. Fah. We ever had Vietnamese Fah. Oh, yeah. It's good. Yeah, I had that. It was $22. $42.49 for Ashley and I. Thank God bless Rochester food prices. And I got a $5 Starbucks on Wednesday. And everything else, I have all the food that I spent on the team. And that's a lot of money throughout the weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday.

Okay, I'm disgusted. I'm disgusted. Do you know how much that bill ran? Yeah. I mean, first of all, good for you with your personal finance that you only spend $26. But hockey season is the best for me. Now, granted. I was in New York City and it was U.S. Open.

Oh, David, the amount. And I took a, there's, I saw some buffalo people and I like bought some drinks and took them out for a couple, couple. How do you do? This dollar amount I'm going to give you isn't even the amount that so I, you know, I own a talent agency and we did a couple dinners that we spent. So it doesn't count that just in the last week. Yeah? You're stopping me. What do you want? I think that you're going to end up spending more than I spent on two teams traveling for four days, feeding them three times a day. That's how I think. Seven days. Alcohol and food. $9.34.39. That does not account for the talent management dinners we expensed. Okay, so you're clicking like $160 a day, $150 a day? I think it was because of New York. Prices are inflated. You buy people a couple drinks. But let's go to the money get with Katie Theory here, right? Let's round $1,000. A thousand bucks spent. That's technically $1,400 of gross income, right? When we factor in the taxes, I love that she brought that up. It's such an eye-opener to me, and I can promise you this next week, I'm going to spend

one ninth of this. It's a guarantee. I'm putting down a guarantee right now. I always look forward to the hockey season because when I get on the road and I eat the team meals, it's a huge savings for my personal finance. And as we found out with the teacher who was on here, the salary working for a high school, doesn't matter if you're coaching sports or being a teacher. It's a shame that a position that impacts the youth in our kids' lives are not. I think paid equally, but that's neither here nor there. You know, for the Money with Katie episode, she said, let's save $100 before trying to get that $1,000 raise because of, you know, the pre-tax dollar being $1.4x.

She said something, though, and this is where, you know, we talk about going to New York City and going out and yada, yada. She says you have to, it's a fine line for saving and cutting back everything that you can. without taking a, quote, meaningful degrade to my standard of living. So in Jason Tartick's world, what is something that, as you consciously save, as this next week approaches and you come off the $950 week in New York City and you're consciously cutting back, but what is something that you just refuse to cut out because for you, it's degrading your standard of living?

And for everyone, it'll be different. I think right now, especially with all the work stuff, travel is so important. and when I travel, I really want to do it right. Like, I want to make the timeline with my schedule not do what's most affordable. I want to travel at a minimum of comfort plus and possibly even first class. Like, it sounds so pretentious and such bullshit. But because the travel schedule and because it takes a toll on you, I think traveling when you feel comfortable really has a huge impact on just the overall stress, your ability to travel like

I just got back and I got an opportunity to leave on Sunday for a big work thing. I didn't want to say no to, but my tolerance and patience to travel is high because of the way I travel. So I think I need to pull back on the food and alcohol, beverage spend, but the areas of travel is just an area that I'm not going to pull back on. But I do want to touch on one thing, and I'm going to put that question back to you. I want to touch on one thing you did mention. I liked how money with Katie talked about how it's really the equation is earn more. spend less, invest the difference, because it touches on what you just said. And she said it, when you earn more and you really focus on that, it's energizing.

It's sexy. It's fun. Go get the race. Go get paid. It gives you the momentum to go do the next thing. So I love that philosophy. Spend less. We're talking about it right now.

And then invest the difference. A huge topic in that episode with Money with Katie. So I'm glad you touched on my areas that I won't pull back on. And there are my areas that I will pull back on. but also that formula is huge. What is one thing you won't compromise? It's such an interesting question for me because I felt like she was talking to me this whole episode

because I am someone who's on that brink. Like I went through the closing cost of first 10 years of expenses and inquired expenses and being a homeowner. I am on that fine line of someone who's trying to save money and spend less and keep a standard to living that my wife and I have worked so hard for. and, you know, it's tough, to be honest.

But I think for me, like, when you think cutting costs as a homeowner, you're thinking, okay, like, should I get rid of cable? Like, that's been a big thing in the last five years. Should I, you know, cook more, eat in more instead of, you know, going out and ordering fast food. But for me, like, a lot of my happiness comes from sports, and I can get rid of cable because I have the sports package, and I can record, and I have it upstairs and downstairs in my theater room,

and I gamble on a lot of sports, and you and I are in a lot of group chats to talk about gambling on sports. And I experimented with streaming services because I cut the cable bill. I pay $180 in cable on internet. It makes me sick. I could get $50 green light

and then I could get YouTube TV for $60. I could be saving $75 a month. But it's a stream. And if I get a text from Jason Tardock during the bills game tonight, saying, oh my God, did you see that cash? What a touchdown. And I'm on my phone watching it downstairs in my happy place.

and 30 seconds later I see the touchdown, it literally ruins my day. So long story short, my standard of living, that is when I'm finally relaxed watching sports and my happy place on my group text, talking to my best friends, catching up on life. And that moment gets ruined for me. That's a standard of living that I cannot do. So I will be a cable guy until I'll probably be the last guy to cut the cable cord. That is such a good one, David. And I'm curious now.

You got me going because I think everyone has different reason rationale to our viewers out there, to our traders, go in the comments, put five stars. Tell us one thing you wouldn't give up no matter what if you're cutting your costs. Put in the comments. And next week, when we recap, we're going to call some of you out. David, money with Katie, Jackie the teacher. What else is top of mind? Yeah, I just think one thing I've never really thought of, and we've talked about debt and we've talked about inflation. We've talked, but we haven't really talked about the two combined. She just had a quote that says debt doesn't take inflation into account. And for those of you who are maybe struggling with that, we've talked a lot about the strategy of,

you know, what to pay off first, you know, high interest or high, high principle or I just want your take on that. Is it okay to have, it made me feel okay to have long term debt. And it not taking inflation into account, especially have a good interest rate on a house for a 30 year. Like that, like I do, again, another thing that hit was relevant to me, it kind of just gave me a little bit of security and comfort. Just overall wanted you expand on that take. Yeah, I have a few takes on this, right? Because if you have 30-year, 15-year, locked mortgages in set in stone, I completely agree with her, right? 52 weeks ago, a year ago, the prime rate was 3.25. So if you locked it in last year, it's not changing. And inflation has gone crazy. And that 3.25 is the

same. And not only has that interest rate not changed, but this is where I disagree a little bit. debt does take into account inflation because a year later, a 30-year fixed mortgage, we're about to get an announcement for another 0.75% increase, is going to be 6.25% prime, just the baseline. You just have decent credit. You're talking 6.25. I went into the car. I bought a car the other day, David. So I had a lease, right? My lease was, I had the lease, tax purposes. It made sense. The residual value of the car was $40,000. and so you could buy it out right now it's interesting is it's a seller's market so the car value if i go sell it right now it's like 52 to 56 i could sell it for so a 40k so i asked the

finance manager i said so my credit score is like 8 10 8 10 you know great financial uh you know personal financial statement minus my thousand dollars in restaurant bills last week what is like the lowest interest rate i can get even if i put money down what's the lowest interest rate He goes, man, I'm not seeing for a car, man, I'm not seeing anything under six. I'm like, what? Last time I financed a car, it was 1.6%. So in that scenario, debt is connecting to inflation. And I'm in a financial position that I'm fortunate enough to do it.

I just paid cash. I didn't even finance it. I just paid cash for it. Because I'm like 6, 7% for three, four years. No, I'd rather not. So that being said, debt does consider inflation. but if you locked it in before, it doesn't. And if you have cheap debt, like money with Katie said, locked in right now, don't make

it a priority because all your future debt and current debt is going to be a lot more and a lot more expensive. I'm glad I asked you that. That actually makes a lot more sense. It makes me feel better about my, I got my mortgage at 2.895, which is obviously fantastic for where the market is. And how much is your mortgage? It was 280.

I'm telling you, I'm making the prediction. In the next 10 years, you will never in your life be able to get $280,000 from a bank for how many years? 30. 30 years. A bank gave you $280,000 for 2%. Think about that. You'll never see it again. So enjoy it, sit on it, and money with Katie right there is a perfect example of what she said. That debt does not take into consideration to this massive inflation. What kind of card did you get? Oh, so I already had it. It was not. the BMW 2020 X-5, black on black. I had it three years ago.

I just bought it out. So now I own it. So now the question is, do I take advantage of this premium and sell it for like 5256, instantly make 16K? But then what do I do with that? The problem is the price of cars is so crazy. It's the same real estate issue.

Yeah, you can sell your house at 2,3X, but then where the fuck do you put the money? Because real estate's out of control. So I'll probably just sit on it for a little bit. And what I think I can do, I got to talk to my accountant. I believe I can fully depreciate it now. So that 40K I spent in the first year because it's over 6,000 pounds through my business,

I could take, I think, I'll have to, I got to get approval for this. But I think I might be able to take the 40K and write it off against my taxes. Not set in stone. We'll go to the CPA first before I do it, but it is a thought. What's the manifesting dream car for Jason Tardick? Dreamcar is the SUV Bentley. Oh. Such a good answer. All souped up. Like ducked out. The ultimate dream car, the like hit the lottery dream car is a completely murdered out Rolls Royce. Car or SUV. Like the phantom. Yeah. Well, SUV is sick to both please. How about you? What's your dream car? I think like, like you said, I think realistic it's always been like I would love like a G-wagon, Mercedes blacked out like to the nuts. And but I think like you said, I think realistic it's always been like I would love a G-wagon Mercedes blacked out like those are cool to the nuts. And but I think.

I think a Rolls SUV would be like, I could never drive that. I'd have to like move to L.A. for a month just to drive it around and park it there and fly back to Rochester. I can never drive that here, but. The pop holes in Rochester couldn't pull it off. Yeah, I don't see myself ever driving any of those cars, but you know what? Maybe you got to put it out there. You never know.

Exactly. And speaking manifestation, if we have more comments in the recaps, we've talked about doing a little banter side gig here where I just called Jason on a road. trip and we banter for 40 minutes while I'm on the bus. If you're into that, let us know, because it's a manifestation dream of mine. Let us know. I want to quickly touch on Jackie, the teacher. It starts at 40K. 13 years later, gets up to 65-ish-K, right? And she talked about the fact that switching districts is sometimes mandatory or sometimes the jobs are pulled back, so it's not like you can control it. And you can't really grow your income, but she doubles it by

taking the skill set and going somewhere else. I got to ask you, is a guy that is technically paid by a school? You're a hockey coach for a school. Now, it's, I don't want to downgrade. It's the number one hockey program in the United States of America. So it's approved. Kids travel, don't travel. They move from all over the country and world to play and be coached by David. So it's no like small thing. But you're paid by a school. What's your take on what she said? Like, can you, like, do you feel that paid disparity? Do you see teachers you know being paid by the same school that feel that too? Absolutely. And here's how I'm going to sum it up because hockey coach and teacher aren't equal, but we technically work in the same industry in terms of trying to impact and educate

kids' lives and make them better at the task at hand. The reason teachers and coaches are underpaid is because we invest time in kids' lives. And when you do that, you inherently do more than is what is asked of you in your job description and your responsibilities because you have that feeling of if I don't, who will? So if I don't spend my time and invest in this kid in the math classroom, in the science classroom, in whatever it is, right? And same thing with me. If I don't try and make them a better hockey player and a better human being and invest in their life, who will? And if they leave my class and go from the third grade to fourth grade and fail or don't, then they'll never get it. And if I don't do my job and don't prepare them for junior and college hockey, then they'll fail.

And because of that, we work way above our 40 hours a week. And that is why we're underpaid because everyone at the end of the day, whether you're doing a lesson plan or grading lessons or doing it at home or traveling on road trips for the first six weeks of the year or doing all these things, that is what qualifies you as underpaid because you get paid for 40, but you can never do your job in the 40 hours. it's so like david so well said and where i really worry for teachers is if your if jacky's increase over 13 years was from the mid 40 range to the mid 60 range with inflation moving at the rate it is they are going to get buried and teachers the trend is going to continue where the demand becomes smaller and smaller and we are going to have an issue if it's not taking care of. So I agree with this. I'm glad we got this message out and we need to continue to advocate for teachers pay because the disparity could have a massive impact on the next

generation and teachers in the future of America. I agree. I just wonder, we went to Geneseo Public Arts School and there was a lot of education majors and I'm assuming there's a lot of education majors across the board in the United States. It just seems like a position that will always have a huge amount of supply in terms of people who want the jobs. And so people will just to get the job, take the lower salary. So the demand of higher wages is not going to be there necessarily because there's so many people coming out of college looking for a job in that industry. Yeah. I mean, I think just like from a macro level, like the macro numbers are showcasing that the supply of teachers is smaller and demand to want to be a teacher is decreasing. So the numbers

are working against it. The other thing, too, is I think with the cost of everything. It's not, we're seeing it with student debt issues. It's just catching up. Like, you're required to get a master's now, which is great for teachers. But then you come out with 100K of debt and you're making 40K in some of these districts. How do you, where do you, how do you ever survive? I don't know. We're here to advocate for pay disparity within the teachers. Jackie, thank you for telling your story. Money with Katie. Congratulations on all the success. If you guys don't follow her, go give her a follow. The work she's doing really, really. is incredible. And I consider her a person in my business influencing impact education space

that I definitely think is one of the top-notch people that is in the space. So give her a follow, check it out. David, anything you want to leave us with? No, I think it was great. Again, just another episode that as an opportunity to be a co-host on this podcast, but also be a learner from our guests is such a unique experience. And I know you said a couple times in there, stay tuned for the recap. I'm sure that one will confuse David. I feel like I'm pretty locked in. Some of the themes that we're talking about with different guests have we've touched on a couple times. So I know if you're a listener, a regular listener, you feel a little more educated every week and so do I. So I'm just happy and lucky to be a part of this. I love it. You always got to

throw a little Curious Canadian sprinkling there and I'm getting better at it. And I'm also getting better at grilling my guests, just like what's up. What's Gabby Cooking said in her promotion this week. That being said, we have some great guests that I am grilling in the hot seat. We got grocery store Joe. That's going to come out. David, I am blown away by his professional story. Absolutely nice. Yeah, I don't know what it. I don't know. I didn't know he had one. So, oh, it's nuts. We got the maniac Bob Menry. We have Daniela Monet, the child actress who has made an unbelievable career and as an entrepreneur. We have Mark D'Amelio, the father, the patriarch of all the D'emelio. it's all coming up. Make sure to give us five stars. Make sure to go follow us on Trading Secrets

Podcast Instagram page with 129,000 followers. I only tell you that is there other other pages out there trying to mimic us with less followers. Don't go to them. Come to us. Give us five stars. And hopefully this was another episode of Trading Secrets that you couldn't afford to miss. dream making that money, money, pay on me, making that money, living that dream.