Trading Secrets - 74: Marriage is $1,000. Divorce? $100,000. The $$$ behind divorce, Tom Brady, Gisele, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie and more by the best divorce attorney Kelly Chang Rickert 

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

This week, Jason is joined by star divorce lawyer Kelly Chang Rickert!    Kelly began practicing law back in 2000 and has since been coined the best divorce lawyer in Los Angeles. She is the founder of the Law and Mediation Offices of Kelly Chang, APLC which focuses on family law. Kelly has routinely appeared as a family law expert on television and radio and has written three Amazon #1 bestselling books in the law, children, marriage and divorce book categories.    Kelly gives insight to how celebrity divorces can get into the millions, how the divorce industry is rarely impacted by events such as the pandemic or recession, how dollars don’t fix a broken heart, and what the difference between child support and alimony is. Kelly also reveals why she thinks everyone should get a prenup, why written contracts are critical, why most lawyers charge a retainer and what that looks like, and what she really thinks about divorce. What does it mean to pre-engage with a divorce attorney? How many years was her longest divorce case?  How is child support and alimony determined? Do pets get treated like children in the case of divorce?   PLUS, Jason and David, the Curious Canadian, talk about some of the BIGGEST celebrity divorces and the shocking numbers behind them.    Kelly reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!     Be sure to follow the Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram & join the Facebook group.   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.   Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Training Secrets. I'll tell you what, we're doing something a little bit different this episode. Why? Because we're listening to you. We are doing a whole episode that is focused on right here, right? now the current news and what's happening. And what's happening? We're seeing a ton of divorces, right? You got the whole Adam Levine DM scandal going on. You got Tom Brady and Giselle who are on the process of getting divorced, hiring divorce attorneys. You have Melinda Gates coming out saying that divorcing

bill was one of the most barbaric things she's ever had to go through. And what do we see? We see 50 of marriages end in divorce. So today, on today's episode, we have Kelly Chang Rickert, who's on, and she is a divorce attorney out of L.A. So we're going to talk to her all about the divorce game, pre-nums, anything you should know if you're in a relationship, thinking about getting married. If you are married, what to be aware of and all the stats. So I got a ton of information here. Before we ring in the bell and bring in Kelly, I had to bring on the curious Canadian because he has a lot of takes on all these divorces, Tom, Giselle, etc. So this is business. This is reality. This is where money comes and collides with personal life. David,

welcome to the intro. How we feel it? Always a pleasure to be in the intro. Very excited to get a take on someone in this crazy industry. We're hearing crazy headlines. You said something that we're seeing a lot now. We've actually seen it a lot for a long time in terms of divorces. I think 40 to 50 percent of marriages and in divorce, I think what we're seeing more now is high, high profile divorces. When you combine the, you know, Victoria's secret model pop culture world with the sports world and the goat and Tom Brady, I mean, that is kind of what kicked this whole thing off in terms of piquing our interests and really, really needing to get someone on to talk about this in depth now.

Such a fascinating topic. Whenever I think of divorces, Jay, you know what I think of? the opening scene in, uh, wedding crashers. Oh, that's, where they have the two people at the end of the table and the debating going at each other, just going over everything. I mean, that is, I earn, I earn those miles. Oh, yeah. So that's what I think of like when you're going head to head with this person that at the end of the day, you married, you love, you started a family with, you had multiple kids with, you supported each other thick and thin. And all of a sudden, like, it's at the end and you're

staring across from each other saying, I own this. I get the rights to this. No, you don't deserve this. No, these are mine. That is yours. It's just something I truly, truly pray every day I'll never have to go through. But really excited to see what Kelly's going to bring to the table. Yes, me too. And so let's get into some of these stats because of the Tom Brady Giselle divorce. I'm curious what your thoughts are. Now, the current news is that they've engaged with divorce attorneys. And we'll ask Kelly about it. But what I'm seeing out there is that they have, it's an estimated $200 million settlement. Currently, they'd be sorting through $26 million of pure, just pure, tangible assets.

Now, what's crazy is Giselle actually has a net worth greater than Tom Brady, around 400, 500 million, where Tom Brady's net worth is in that 250, 300 million range. Curious, your take on this whole Tom Brady, Giselle thing. You see that he had some issues preseason with his work and going to work and showing up. He talked about it. She came out saying he's an absent father. He's been nowhere to be found. money and divorce aside before we get into it with kelly do you have any take on tom versus joselle

do you have a take what do you what do you think yeah my take is to be the greatest at the world in anything you have to put that as your number one priority i don't care what you say so tom brady is the greatest quarterback the greatest football player all time he's put every ounce of energy into football as a wife and a wife of three children that you have with tom there's got to be a million conversations. Okay, Tom. Okay, Tom, we get it. We support it. It's your number one. You are the number one, but we have to at least be one B. And to do that, there's got to be timelines in place. You know, and this is a really unique one. I think what caught our interest and your interest so much too is like, she is has the higher net worth. You don't really see

this. If you go on the list of most expensive divorce settlements of all time, I bet you in the top 10, they're all the males with the higher net worth and the higher income and the higher revenue. So I'm not team anybody in this. I'm just really interested to see how it plays out. And honestly, I'm curious to see how Tom Hamill's it on the football field, too. Three sides to every story. There's Tom's side, Giselle's story, and of course, the truth. And I think you said it best.

My only take on this is it goes back to something we talk about in trading secrets and we talk about often. When is enough? Enough. And I don't know the ins and outs of the relationship. when professionally, for 20-something years, you have committed to a 24-7 job, being the best at it. You've pretty much taken over any form of tangible, numerical value that defines being the best at that position that one can do. Tom has done it. You're now 45, and you're having your wife say

you're an absent father. At what point do you say, enough's enough? And I got to go take care of my family and other things. I don't know. Do you have an opinion on that? Yeah, I mean, we talk wins and losses all the time, especially in sport. And that's probably how Tom Brady's brain works. If my wife is calling me an absent father to the world, that's a biggest L I could take. That is something that, you know, you think you should, you know, reflect, learn from, and prioritize. But it's just scary.

Divorce rates are divorce rates. And sometimes where you think someone's priority should be, obviously they sometimes aren't. And that's what leads to divorce in the first place. It's a little more common. but these, you know, these really highlighted celebrity people, we really get to dive into their details and their decision-makings and their priorities because of the platform that they're on. I really hope that, you know, you and Kelly get into the reeds about the Bill and Melinda Gates, you know, sound bites or comments or clips about it being like, wait, what, how you,

how did you refer to it? Like the most brutal, like, things she's ever been through your life. The Melinda Gates. Barbaric. We're going to get into all that, David. And, guys, stay tuned for the recap because we're going to get David. its take and all the questions you might have. The other thing I would just say on the Tom Brady thing, you know, I go back and forth like one dude, show up for your family. But the other thing is like professionally you probably only have in your entire life living is a human. You probably only have like what, 700 days, two years, maybe max to ever touch that football field. Like can they just be there for the finish line when he completes that mission? I would say if it's just a year

or two more, give him a shot. But then there's the big discussion when you have Brady. or at least news out there that he agreed to a 10-year, $375 million contract with Fox as an announcer. So you're clearly not just having two more years. You just signed on for two plus 10. And, you know, there's a lot of action here. But, guys, this will be an episode all about divorce, all about the money, all the things that viewers need to know, and all the things that you'll find interesting. We have the top list of the most expensive divorce settlements of all time. You got Bill and Melinda Gates, $76 billion.

dollars. Jeff Bezos and McKenzie Scott, 38.3 billion dollars. Alec and Jocelyn Wildenstein, 3.8 billion. You have Bill and Sue Gross, 1.3 billion. These are billion dollar settlements from divorce. It's when the world of love and money connect. And on this episode, we're going to get into it. So without further ado, let me bring in Kelly. We are ringing in the opening bell with Kelly Chang Rickard, the founder of law and mediation offices of Kelly Chang, located in Pasadena and has been coined as the best divorce lawyer in Los Angeles. Kelly has been practicing law since 2000 and routinely appears as a family law expert on television radio. In addition to that, she has written three Amazon number one bestselling

books in law in children's marriage and divorce books categories. Check those out. Kelly, thank you so much for being here today. We are excited. to have you. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Amazing. Well, we're going to come out swinging. We already did an intro on some of the big divorces we've seen in the media today and questions we have. So I want to talk about Tom and Giselle right from the get-go. Apparently, according to news sources, they have quote-unquote engaged in divorce attorneys. So as one of the most prominent in the field, what exactly does that mean when they actually engage an attorney? And then that being said, What's like the likelihood that divorce is on the way if that process has begun?

So a lot of times people pre-engage divorce attorneys, and it doesn't necessarily lead to divorce. But a lot of times they hire them to explore what their rights and obligations are if the divorce were to happen. So I think it's probably premature to assume that they're going to file for divorce. And if they are, it's probably going to be happening anytime now because celebrities tend to keep their secrets under wrap. so somebody leaked it interesting that that whole thing i find just completely fascinating what does the timeline typically look like like your average timeline of someone engages in divorce versus the divorce becoming completely settled and finalized that could be a variety i mean my longest divorce case lasted 15 years 15 years and then yeah so the kids were like three and five

and then by the time the divorce was done they were 18 and 20 so So it really runs the gamut because it depends on the issues of your case. And some couples can just keep fighting and fighting and fighting until their money is gone. Think Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. And then other couples are pretty like, you know, Tom Cruise. He was divorced with Katie. Like within, they settled within the week after it became public. So I think it just depends on the couple, depends on the pre-nup, and depends on which lawyers they hire.

Interesting. Now, that was one celebrity case. I did not study coming into this. Pitt and Angelina, what was the process of their core case? So what actually happened with their settlement? So she filed in 2016. The case was bifurcated, meaning that they have been divorced by status. Okay.

But by status, meaning you can go and get remarried. You're divorced. But the issues of custody, support, property division, that's all still outstanding. And recently, I think she filed a lawsuit against her for selling his half of the winery or something like that. So that's still gone. And it's been like almost so. So I don't see that divorce ending anytime soon. That is crazy. I just can't even comprehend how, I don't know, just seven years of constantly worrying about what's going to happen in lawsuits. It seems illogical. But aside from settlement, like so once the settlement is made, and in the intro we went over

some of the largest settlements in the history of the United States. But aside from that, how can one gauge, like, how much a divorce will cost financially? Like, when you engage with an attorney, is it a flat rate, is it an hourly rate? Is there a standard someone should think about? Like, if you engage attorney, you're talking at least X amount of dollars. What would you say? So I actually have a licensed trademark, and it's marriage is grand, divorce 100 grand. So I think that's like a good starting point.

If you're going to engage in a contested divorce, I think you contested, meaning, like, custody. I think 100 grand is pretty cheap if you're going to fight in your divorce. So typically lawyers charge by the hour. I think a reasonable hourly rate would be 500 per hour all the way up to 5,000 bucks an hour depending on who you hire. And it just, you know, it's a billing clock. So, and you know, celebrities, they hire firms. So you have like the senior partner billing $2,000 an hour. You have the three associates billing anywhere between $800, $450 an hour. And then you a paralupal billing 250. So it's like easy to go through 25 grand an hour, which is how you get up into the millions. So that is after. It's again, this is so tough to comprehend. That is a wild

saying though. So to get married, can you say that one more time to get married? It's a grand, but to get divorced, it's about 100 grand. Divorce 100 grand. That is going to be the title of this podcast. All right. What about, I think about this from your perspective. I sit down with my businesses and I do my forecast and I'm trying to understand demand and supply and how recession could pull back. When you're in the market of family law and divorces, how do you like establish demand and what business will look like? Has it changed a lot since the pandemic? Is it pretty consistent that you'll get the same amount of divorce cases? Like, how does it look like when you're trying to project how many divorces and cases you'll get in the year? I've been practicing

since 2000. My business has always been consistent. There's never been a bad time. So when, you know, we had a recession in 2008, things were great then. We had pandemic. Things were still great. So people, when times are good, filed for divorce. When times were bad, filed for divorce. So I think my industry, unfortunately, is one of those few industry that's not impacted by the recession.

Interesting. Yeah, because people that can afford my services are always going to file. And then those that cannot, they will just represent themselves. But the people that can't afford attorneys, they're not going to let a recession and stop them from filing for divorce, like Jazele and Tom. Interesting. They always say, find businesses. They're going nowhere.

People say start with death, taxes in the sun. I think we might have to add divorce to that lineup. Now, tell me a little, and about the seven, I still can't just get away from it, the Ben and Angelina, this seven-year divorce. So you talked a little bit about the dollars and the costs. If you're doing this process for seven years, you're talking about millions of dollars they would owe attorneys. So they're paying, and that's accumulating.

this entire time, or are they paying a retainer? Like, are they paying the attorneys to make sure it's cleared up? Like, how do you have a case that's outstanding for that long with those dollars? But typically, an attorney would charge a retainer to even come in on the case. So, you know, a sample retainer would be $25,000. You have to pay this upfront and I will bill my hourly against it. So, you know, if the first month I build, let's say my hourly rate is $1,000, make it easy. A thousand would pay for 25 hours of my service. And so, you know, Once I spend 25 hours, you're completely depleted and you have to replenish. Most attorneys have what's called an evergreen retainer.

So there's like a minimum you have to keep in the account for them to continue to be your attorney. Okay. So that's what we have. We're on evergreen retainer. Okay. Interesting. Evergreen retainer. These are all new words for me.

And guys, stay tuned to the recap. If they're new words for you, we will break down the definitions. All right. I'm going to get to alimony, but I want to talk strictly property. Can you explain the process in general about how. how a couple divides up property and the divorce, or like, what is the most common way to do it? So, number one, you have to exchange financial disclosures. Basically, everything that is community property needs to be divided. Community property is only in nine states. And even in the states that

don't have community property, they have what's called equitable distribution. And so you still have to define what was acquired during the marriage before the data separation and divide that part. the separate stuff, like what you came into the marriage with, that stays separate if you kept it separate. If you commingled, meaning like, let's say you came in with a million bucks and then you use 200,000 to go by something community and the community, you've commingled it. So now you have to trace what your separate funds were to get the separate back. So it's, to enter a marriage, if you have a lot of assets with a prenuptial agreement, because the pre-nup will specifically state what your separate assets were coming into.

the marriage and also your intentions. So if you want to like wave community, you can do that and you can even waive alimony. So I'm a huge and a prenupt. Huge. Okay, we're going to talk about preempts. Before we get to preempts. So technically, if you don't have any type of, well, if co-mingling or not, whatever you've established before the day that you have been actually married, even though you might be whatever, working on things together, whatever, none of that matters until day one of marriage, correct? Well, if you're working, working on things jointly, that would be, you know, pursuant to whatever your employment contract is. So it's not like totally exempt, you know, just because let's say you're working on a book with

your girlfriend and you already agreed you're going to split at 50-50. Just because you're not married doesn't mean that your agreement to split at 50-50 isn't valid. It's still valid, but it's not subject to marital law until you get married. Okay. And this is very, very big for my viewers out there because I don't think many of them participate or utilize contracts. But in a scenario like that, if you and your girlfriend, or boyfriend or partner do, let's just say, create a book together. And you say that you're going to split it 50-50. What would hold up in court? Would a text of agreement, an email agreement, or do you actually have a full written contract? Is that the only thing that would actually

hold up in court if you had to go to court? I would say yes, because he said, she said, does not hold up in court. So I think anytime you're going to get into any sort of project, especially today with influencers, you need to get into a one-page contract. It's really easy. There's templates online. But it defines the scope of work and how much you guys are entitled to it. So, you know, if it's a 50 project, however it's divided has to be specifically stated and also the duration of the project. Contracts, contracts, contracts. All right. Now, how does alimony work specifically in how is it calculated? I think about the Tom and Giselle scenario. Obviously, they have kids. We did research on their net worth. Surprisingly to, I think, majority,

Giselle has a higher net worth than Tom. So in that scenario, would Giselle be paying alimony to Tom? Like, how does that work and how is it calculated? So alimony is different than child support. Okay. Good clarification. Didn't know that. Our support is support of the children.

And so that depends on your incomes and also how much time you have with the children. So if they share 50, 50 custody and they earn approximately the same thing, there's not going to be child support. But if Giselle is retired, whatever she's, she's making from past income is not as much as Tom Brady's active income and she has the kids most of the time because he's still playing football, Tom is going to pay child support. Alamony is spousalzo support. That's totally different than child support. You can be ordered to pay alimony even if you do not have children with the person. So what's at stake here is child support and alimony, which is spousal support. Two totally different preachers. I don't think if they're worth approximately

the same thing, there's probably not going to be alimony. so that it's probably just going to be an issue of child support. And the concept behind alimony is someone who has no idea, and if my viewers don't, the alimony case is we entered a marriage. Is the theory of this that you now live a certain lifestyle to some level and us breaking up will allow you to live some type of similar lifestyle? What's the process of that? Somewhat.

So spousal support, also known as alimony, is based on the fact that you're supposed to, the law says that you have to support your spouse during the marriage. And so if you support your spouse during the marriage and they get acclimated to a certain lifestyle, like they don't have to work. So historically, alimony was to protect against the wayward husband that leaves his wife of 50 years first. So like, historically, this would happen where you're a stay-at-home housewife and you don't have any marketable skills.

And then in your 60s or 70s, when your kids left the house, your husband leaves you, you. And so spouses support was supposed to protect that woman from being on the streets, you know, after having dedicated and served her husband for years. Yeah. But, you know, these days, I would say 50% of the workforce is women. And I do see a lot of women paying alimony these days because they do earn more. Like, for example, I live in L.A., so I know a lot of like entrepreneurial women that support their actor husbands, you know? So it's like up and down my street, it's a bunch guys, I see walking their pets and their babies and their wives are off to their executive jobs at ABC and NBC. So definitely, like in L.A. or New York, where a lot of women are very successful,

they do now have to be ordered to pay alimony. But you can waive alimony in a pre-enup. So that's another thing. Tom and Gisal have a pre-up. I'm sure. I would imagine. I would imagine they do. These are beautiful things that are leading into the pre-nup. We're going to get there real quick. Follow-up question on the alimony. How long does one typically pay alimony? So it depends. In California, a marriage of 10 years and under or 10 years and over is called a long-term marriage.

And so the duration for a long-term marriage is usually like longer. I'm not going to say it's forever, but it's longer. In a short-term marriage, you know, a duration under 10 years, it's usually half a length. So if you were married for one year, you can probably expect to pay alimony for about six months if you're going to pay alimony. But like I said, it's like strictly based on income. So if you guys are making on the same thing, you're not going to have alimony obligations. This is absolutely mind-blowing to me.

This is so fascinating. Now, okay, how about child support? Tell me a little bit about child support, how the cost is calculated. And then when does child support end? Child support ends when the kids turn 18 or if they're still in high school, 19. If the child is disabled, you know, that's a different situation that could go on longer. But typically, child support is an algebraic formula. It's actually found in the California Family Code 40, 55.

If you want to Google that, it's the, but we family lawyers use Dissomaster and it's just so it's basically the two biggest factors are your monthly income or annual income, whatever other incomes like dividends, stocks, business interest, rental income, and then also the percentage of time. So if you share like 50-50, and you make roughly the same, there's not going to be child support. But if you make the same amount and one of you has 80% custody and the other 20, then you're going to expect the person with 20% custody to pay child support because the theory is that the children are paid for whoever they're with. So if you have the kid's 80%, you're paying for them more. So the 20% parent would have to make up the difference by paying child support.

Interesting. So it's obviously customized to each person and their income and the percentage that they have custody and things like that. What have you seen in court that has created a situation? As we see it in like all the Hollywood movies, but that creates a situation where a parent actually has no rights to see their kid. And like you've seen, I remember like in liar liar, I'm remembering this scene where like he loses his rights and the woman goes off throwing a like celebrating. Is that a common thing or is that extremely rare? I would say, and this is in general, if you fight for custody, you will get it. And so sometimes if you see one parent end up with custody, it's because the other parent didn't fight. Or if there's like, so in general, if you participate it in the raising of the children together and then you separate and you still live within close vicinity of each other, you're going to have some sort of joint shared. The situations where there would be no custody except for supervised, supervised visitation or something would be like, of one parent was convicted of domestic violence, you know, abuse, something. Or one parent just moved away. And so in that case, it's impossible to have shared custody if you're in Hawaii, you know, or New York.

But generally, I would say the courts like it because the courts, you are divorcing your ex, but your children aren't. And so it's the legislative intent that continue to have frequent and continuing contact with both. with parents after separation. All right. I got to go to the pre-nup now because I think about everything you're saying. I just see the dollar signs. Your life's work is just being snapped in half over relationship issues. Before I even ask about a pre-nup, seeing what you've seen, is there any validity to someone saying, why do we even get married in general? Why does the whole concept of marriage exist? Or do you think that's just outlandish? I don't think it's outlandish. You know, I think if you go back to like the beginning of time, I think

marriage was, it's created by God, you know, and it's, it's the sacred union between a man and a woman whereby you form a family and then the families inherit the earth, you know, so I think family is a very important. The family structure is very important, you know, it's, it's the basis of our community. So I do think that marriage is very important. And I actually, myself. I'm opposed to divorce. You know, it's really unfortunate. I've always felt like my entire life I've done. I've excelled at this work, but it's, it's always been like kind of hard for me because I see a lot of lawyers out there kind of life is short, get a divorce. And they talk about marriage. Like it's so, you know, like it's throw away. And I hate that. I hate that. I hate how people

view marriage as something so like. Transactional. Like, it's not like, like a transaction. This is an enduring lifetime commitment. You don't just get married, get divorced, do it again, do it again, do it again. There's more to it than just like a, let's put a ring on it and go out of a party. It's a life commitment. Yeah. And it's important I see a lot of women and, you know, they get 50,000 a month in alimony, but it doesn't alleviate their pain. You know, it's like they, they want 50 grand. And of course, the guy is probably like, well, you know, my pocketbook hurts. But this woman's heart hurts because she didn't think. it would ever lead to him cheating, you know, or so it's really sad. And I see like mistakes on both

ends and it just makes me, it just makes me kind of sad. And so that's why I'm not a big proponent of my, I don't like to advertise. I'm a divorce lawyer. You know, I just, I hate saying that. Yeah. We focus on the pre-nup, which is like, let's enter into a marriage carefully, wisely, prudently, and try to stay there. And so the pre-nup is only used in, the event of a, in the unlikely event of a divorce or death. So, you know, sign it, put it away, and forget about it. Such a good perspective. We have eight minutes left here with Kelly.

Before I go into pre-nump, I have one last question with you. And the question is all about just you've seen, I'm sure, people at each other's throats. You just made a great comment about dollar signs, do not heal a broken heart. And it doesn't matter what those are. This is more relationship advice than it is attorney or divorce. law advice, but what do you think is the biggest issue with these divorces? Do you think it comes down communication? Is it usually commitment? Is it usually money? Like, if you had to attribute one

reason that is the largest reason of why these divorces occur based on conversations you've heard, what would you say it is? I honestly believe that it's because of the world. The worldview of marriage is so broken now. They're trying to redefine marriage and all that stuff. And it's not going to work. So I really believe that what's missing is God in our society. And I don't know if you can put that on your podcast, but this is how I feel. And it's like, this is what I believe and I do my job with that belief. But I really believe that the worldview of marriage is broken. And until you understand what God's view of marriage is, you can enter into a marriage and it's going to be like a spinning roulette. You could be one of the two marriages that fall. But unless two people enter

with like a godly view of marriage i don't it's just luck you know if it's going to succeed or not yeah i think yeah i got i think that's a great answer of course we'd keep on the podcast because i think opinions and perspectives are so important though i think my take on that would be there has to be and if god is your if god is your higher being great but there's got to be something larger than what it actually is as far as, like, contractually. Because it seems as though, unless you are in, you know, relationships with my fiance right now is Canadian, obviously our marriage does something more, right, when it comes to citizenship and stuff like that.

And then when you bind finances, marriage obviously has an impact. But other than that, if you're only looking at the transaction, it's very different than or it's very, like, it's razor thin to the difference between like dating and actually being married other than this contract that's signed. And if you don't have this higher structure of something that it means more, I agree. I mean, when you look at just the words, it's not a big difference. You know, I think that's a great way to put it. It's because a lot of people enter into marriage thinking, how is this going to benefit me? And so marriage is selfless. If you're going to, our worldview now is everything is self, self, self. Everybody just looks out for themselves, you know.

And so it's kind of disgusting, but, you know, until you can put yourself aside and actually care about the widow, the orphan, something like just, I don't know how a marriage is going to survive. Yeah. I think it's a good point. It's a good discussion. And you've seen a lot of marriages not survive. And we talked about it already.

We've hinted at pre-numps, pre-numps. Do you have a take in general on when and if you should get a pre-nump? Or are you in a position where you would say every. human in the world that's getting married, should get a pre-nup? I think every human in the world that's going to get married should get a pre-nup. And it's, I think it's, you already have one. You know, a lot of people don't know this, but if you get married without a pre-up, the pre-nup is the state law.

So if you get divorced without a pre-up, it's going to go according to what law, the state that you live in goes. So you already have one. Whether you like it or not, your assets are going to be divided by the pre-nup stated by the state law. So if you don't like that law, because in California, we have community property. So everything that you acquired during the marriage is half your spouses. If you don't like that, change it. So I, you know, really important for creators and doctors and lawyers, people with their own businesses, because when you come in with, like you, with your own business, right,

if you get married, your business, even though it's separate, is going to be deemed to have marital value during the marriage. So let's say your business is worth 10 million right now and get married and then your business goes up to 100 million. That increase is going to be marital. So even though you started it and even over time, it probably would have grown by itself, right? They're going to, the law is going to say, no, it was because of your wife. She's that, you know, even if your wife worked full time and didn't contribute to your business, the law assumes that. And so I think California law sucks for community property. So for spouses that work and have their own businesses,

like I have a lot of musicians and actors, like creators that this is their own creative interest. Like why would your spouse get royalties of a song that you created? It's not theirs. It's crazy. How does the business breakdown work? So suppose the companies worth $10 million. We get married.

It's then worth $100 million. There's a $90 million difference. would your partner in that scenario, if you got divorced a lot of prenup, then essentially have ownership of your business? 45 million of it, yep. So it would go like this. The 10 million was premarital. You keep that.

Okay. During this 90 million. 45 million is her effort. It's a joint effort. And can that person have any impact on like operationally how business businesses are executed, or is it more that just any value or dividend or anything like that? Nothing. So, like, a good example is doctor.

So, you know, I represent a lot of doctors. And they sometimes finish medical school and then maybe work for somebody. And then during the marriage, they'll put in all their student loans and basically build a business ground up and get it up to $100 million. And their wife, cheating with a gardener, didn't do anything, will still get half of that value of the business. And that's not even the worst of it. The worst of it is you both have to hire forensic accounts. accountants to calculate the value. And so, yeah, so like for you, Jason, it's like, I don't know how much my business is worth.

So you're going to have to hire a forensic and pay him like 100 grand to value your business low. So your forensic is going to be like, my business is worth nothing because my name is my business without me, the business would fail. Then she would say hire a forensic to value your business high, like a 500 million. Of course. Yeah. And then both of you are hiring lawyers, accountants, forensics, everything. And it's billing you hourly.

That's why I find, like, my industry is kind of sick. It's just, you go to these divorce conferences, and it's like, custom evaluator, supervisor, monitored visitation, you're just like capitalizing off people's misery. Misery. And I just wish to work it out. Just, you know, feel like if it doesn't work out, you don't get my business. You don't get, I don't get your business.

We keep separate accounts. Maybe we have one joint account. We just divide that one. Yeah. for pre-end of and keep it simple. So when you walk away, you just walk away. That's what's interesting is like at every business that I have, you sit down with your business partner and you go through everything. Soup to nuts. What happens if I die? What happens if you die? How are we managing this? What's your role? You do it all and you sign and you're fine.

But for some reason, when there's this relationship discussion about having the same exact discussion, it's like how do we approach it? Do we talk about it? Do I skate around it? You had already you mentioned, I think, which is a great response, which is, we already have a pre-num. It's the state law. I think that's a great response. Do you have any other type of advice to someone that's listening to this that says, I tried to talk to my partner about this? I got shut down and thrown out. Any thoughts of how someone can approach this discussion, which sometimes could be a tough one to have? I would just, I don't know. It also protects against debt. I think that you could pitch that. So you could be like, my business, yeah, it's worth a lot, but I owe a ton of

money and any debt that I accumulate during the marriage is half your debt. Do you want that? Because if not, I could get sued. Let's keep all our debt separate. That's another thing. You can pitch it, you know, because owning a law firm or a doctor, you're prone to get sued. And that could go against assets unless you have a separate prenupt saying this is my separate debt. If I get sued, my spouse doesn't have anything to do with that. Okay, understood. So a thousand bucks to get married, 100,000 to get divorced. Let's talk pre-nup. What is it? What does it cost to put a pre-num together? So a pre-up is relatively, I think, cheap. I think for $5,000, you can get it. It basically entails you sitting down with your spouse and being like, do we want community property? Do we want

to have joint debt? How are we going to handle buying stuff during the marriage? If I give you a car, let's say give you a Tesla, is that community? Or do you get to keep that? So you iron out everything. If I have a copyright, is that mine? If I write a book, you just talk about it. And then you also talk about, you know, we both make the same thing. Can we waive alimony or if you give up your job during the marriage, maybe I'll pay you, but a set amount. So I know what I'm, it's called liquidated damages.

Like you know what you're responsible for. So you could be like, $10,000 a month. And that way you're not rolling the dice and having to pay $50,000 a month in alimony. Okay, got it. That makes sense. And you referenced the brand and Angelina break up seven years. they still haven't finalized the divorce. Do you think with a very clean cut pre-nump, you're then also decreasing the cost and time

of the process of divorce? Absolutely. I think the less, the more clear you can make your agreement, the less likely that the lawyers can go in with their grubby hands and fight. Okay. Because lawyers fight. And so if you leave things fightable, they're going to fight. You know, lawyers love fighting.

Okay. It's not unusual to spend like 50,000. to go after an account that has 10,000 on it. It doesn't make financial sense, but people are like, he's hiding money. And so after you pay a private investigator, a forensic, somebody to trace all those, and then it's like, oh, there's only 10,000 in there.

But you have to pay everybody else, and that's 50 grand. So it's not worth your, it's not, it's a horrible, stay out of court. I'm actually working on a series of books called Marriage is Grand, divorce, $100,000, and just keep it civil, keep it civil, get the pre-up, and just keep it out of court because it's kind of it's kind of a dirty business and I also

watching there's called divorce ink it's like a document divorce it's pretty true really there's there's a lot of validity to that okay yeah multi-billion dollar industry the divorce industry and it's just these people trying to get their money from broken families one thing I always ask because one thing I like to give my listeners perspective on is, is this a career option for them and a little transparency behind it? We're hearing some of that now. I know corporate law because I used to be a banker and work in the ortho space. I know a little bit about injury law. Where does like family law rank on, I guess, like the lucrative end of things when it comes to deciding what field is an attorney you're going to go into? I think depending on your clients,

it could be lucrative. So if you're like Laura Wasser, you know, you have like a $250,000 retainer. I mean, obviously you're doing pretty well. But I would say family law attorneys, generally they don't make that much money. Corporate lawyers and personal injury lawyers definitely make more. Okay. So those two, so that was right then. Corporate lawyers, injury lawyers, those are going to be on the top spectrum. What do you think in the, like if you had to guess, your average family law attorney in United States on an annual basis makes around? I would say maybe 100,000. it's not valid. Interesting.

Okay. Fascinating. So if you're going to get into that space, it sounds like you want the right clientele to do so. Yeah. With a 250K attorney, it sounds like a retainer. Sounds like a whole different industry.

Exactly. Okay. Last question I got for you before you go into your trading secret is you mentioned something about, I want to talk about the state lines here because you mentioned about state. So there are probably people right now listening that are married that don't have a preem but they know that their preempt is based on the state. Where do you go?

Or what area can someone go to see what the rules are in regulations for their state? So a family law attorney in that state would know. Okay. So that would be a situation where you would consult a family law attorney, even though you're not ready for divorce, just to find what could happen if you do get a divorce. Okay. And then I think about myself who's lived in, I've lived in like 10 states in my life. If you get married in, let's say you get married in California where you're at, and then work brings you, I don't know, to Chicago. What state are you under? Is it the current place that you're residing or where the marriage

occurred? It would be where you filed a divorce. Interesting. Okay. So most states have jurisdictional requirements. So like if you live in New York and you move to L.A., you can't just immediately file a divorce in California. You have to wait six months. Got it. So, jurisdictional. So a lot of people move out here and file for separation first because there's no jurisdictional requirement for separation and then at six months convert it to divorce. I think Las Vegas is like three weeks or something, six weeks. So if you live in Vegas, six weeks, you can follow a divorce. So it really depends on the state.

Got it. Oh, my God. It is. It's just, it's a mind-blowing. Like, it's just, there's so many things in life. There's so many curveballs that life throws your way. And there's so many things that you have to deal with. And then to think about all the hoops and ladders and things you've got to jump through

to divorce. It's wild. And I read this morning that divorce for United States, it's 2.9 people for every thousand humans in the United States are getting divorced. So a lot of people are dealing with this. The numbers are crazy. That sounds kind of low. 2.9 out of 1,000.

I would think it was higher. Yeah, I mean, I think that was what I saw was like based on the 45 states that submitted. But I think that accounts for like every living human. Like if you were a six-month-year-old, you're included in that. It's not like per-married people. Crazy stuff. But let's wrap with a trading secret. So a trading secret is something that someone can't find in a textbook, learn in a classroom,

but they can learn from you, Kelly, on this scenario. in life, what trading secret can you leave us with? I think work on the marriage. Working on your marriage is the best way to save money. That's my trade secret. You don't need to think lawyers, forensics, evaluators, all these silly people that you have to pay. Just work on your marriage, you know, and find commonality. Like you said, find a higher purpose outside of yourself. And you know marriage is a blessing i've been married for 15 oh 16 years and we have a family and i would do anything like i would give up my career like that if it was you know i just to save my marriage i love i mean it's such a good way to end a trading secret from someone who does

this every day when the entire thing that sparked this discussion is career management based on tom brady still playing jazelle getting sick of it and them engaging in divorce attorney. So Kelly, this has been extremely informative, very insightful. Where can people find some of the books that you have going on? And for the next series of books, where should people go when you have your next announcement on them? I guess they can just follow me on social media at lawyer Kelly. I'm on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok. And there I have a link to my bio. I have a blog that I update weekly so you can subscribe to it and you can buy my books on Amazon. Perfect. lawyer Kelly everybody you just heard everything she said go follow her and you'll hear more

Kelly thank you so much for coming on this episode train secrets have a great day okay you too take care wow that was an unbelievable episode with Kelly but hang tight guys there's a curveball here a recap literally like no other now listen to the entirety of it and then I'm explain after but you'll definitely want to stay tuned you are going to enjoy this ding ding ding we are closing in the bell to kelly podcast wow that was a lot of action um really just honestly taken aback by it and just my natural instincts are like i don't know like i feel it's it's just icky it's so sad so there's some ways like i said so many people go through so much i didn't realize how much was behind this industry and the dollars and cents behind divorce. I'm blown away.

But I got the Curious Canadian back with me here. We had him in the intro. He listened to the whole thing. David, what do you think? What's going to talk to me? What's going through the curious Canadians head? There's a lot to digest there is with everything marriage, you know, marriage, money, kids. And, you know, I have a trading secret for the listeners. Jay thinks that I forgot to record the episode. And that's why I were here today. But I have a bigger trading secret that I had to get his reaction to. Oh! Oh, holy shit.

We, the curious Canadian is having a baby. Oh, my God. Wow. Wait, did we do, wow. Did you set this whole thing up? I did. I did.

Yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Congratulations. Thank you. Holy shit. Dude, that is amazing. That was the, I was trying to find the ultrasound pictures before.

That's when you were like, David, let's go. I got to get this and I couldn't find them. And then when we got off, I was like, Ash, where are they? And she showed me. Oh my God. And in true Jason Tartic fashion, I got to, I had to record it for the mems. Dude, that is amazing. Well, it's huge congratulations.

Thank you. That is so exciting. You get everybody context here. we filmed we did the recap right for the Kelly episode then I'm moving 100 miles an hour it's Monday you know just going full speed and then I get a text from David I forgot to hit record and my response was Jesus Christ we have to jump back on I was like give me 10 I'll be there so I come back on obviously not thrilled but ready to go all right let's do this and then David just hit me with the images that his wife is pregnant dude that is so exciting wow

very excited how far along uh just about 11 weeks so may yeah may 3rd um was able to tell all our our family this weekend and oh my god obviously was able to tell evan and ben this weekend in the city and so we haven't made a post yet or really told the public just like the closest family first then closest friends and then we'll wait like another two weeks before kind of tell everybody but yeah the curious Canadian household is just going to be wow we are are adding, we are going to have another curious Canadian. So what about gender? What are you going to do? We're going to wait and find out. You know, I think a 20 week mark, you can do it. You can do it like, it's funny. You learn all these like third parties that'll do it for like 12 weeks or 14. So,

you know, with the testing and stuff that you want to do for the health of it first and then we'll do gender at 20 and go from there, have a big reveal party on the podcast. Oh my God. I love it. That is amazing. Well, huge congratulations to you guys. That is so exciting. The first of hopefully many. Wow. What a time to be alive, baby. Love it. I love it. Well, congratulations, brother. So happy for you. Thank you. Awesome. Unbelievable, baby. The Curious Canadian is having a baby. I had no idea. I mean, listen, he pulled up the ultrasound. So the whole entire thing was here. We recorded the main recap, what you're going to hear right after this. We recorded it 15 minutes. We did our thing.

We finished it. It's a Monday. I'm moving 100 miles an hour on a Monday. It's how I operate. I'm going out of the next thing, and I get a text from David saying, you're not going to believe this. I forgot to record. We have to re-record the recap. And my response was, Jesus Christ, you're kidding me. But okay, let's go. So I move a couple things, shift the schedule. I come back on, and we are going to now recap, the recap, which we already did, which you're going to hear in a minute.

And that's when we just did what you heard. So he totally pranked me, put up the ultrasound, show me he was that his wife is pregnant. and what an amazing, amazing miracle. So, congratulations to David and Ashley. Congratulations, Curious Canadian, you are the man. We felt as though, given the fact they had pranked me and it was recorded, audio and video, we had to share it with our viewers. So thank you so much.

Now, let's go close the bell. I'm the original recap, which was recorded. Ding, ding, ding! We are closing in the bell with the one. only the curious Canadian who was with us on the intro. Holy but Jesus, that was an episode. Things I never knew.

Quite frankly, I feel like things I never wanted to know. But David, Curious Canadian, what do you got for me? Well, I thought at the end, she was going to charge us a retainer or hit us with a nice hourly fee because that was, when you say educational,

when you say educating the consumer, that was all of those in a nutshell. I learned a ton, and like you said, some of it was like good to know and someone was like, I hope I pray that I will never have to know or experience some of these things. I thought it was an episode where we weren't sure how it was going to go. And my, oh my, I think that that's going to resonate with, you know, a lot of people. Well, it's the perfect intersection of money, career, and personal life. Like one thing we talk about in our family toast, we have like a family toast, health, wealth, and happiness.

And so like this impacts your wealth, it definitely has an impact. on your overall health and professional world and certainly happiness. I did like to tie in when she said, I've seen these people. They get the alimony. They get 50K a month. It doesn't make them happy. It really doesn't. So as a curious Canadian, the voice of viewer, what are some takeaways you have or questions you're thinking about? Well, takeaways. I think we should market this podcast to be the only people that are talking about Tom and Giselle not getting divorced. I think that everyone has it as a foregone conclusion, especially us in the intro. And she was like, no, no, no, no, no. was leaked. That's something that's preemptive. There's no sign or no for sure thing that says

they're going to end in divorce. So I think we need a little sound clip saying this is a hot off the press like they are not getting divorced. That was one takeaway because that was, you know, I thought it was a foregone conclusion. How about you? Yeah. I mean, I didn't realize that a lot of people engage in attorney and they actually don't pursue it at all. They're just interested in what their kind of rights and what it would look like. But I just, I don't know, man. I still think like, you know, if you're engaging and you're paying a retainer for a divorce attorney, I don't know. To me, it's like, clearly you're taking the next step. All right. So I was going to get you to define retainer, but I want to ask a question first that might answer it for me.

How much do you think Tom Brady's divorce lawyer is going to cost for a retainer? Oh, my God. I mean, just based on her saying like 250K for the high profile, I'm going to say, say a minimum of 250k. Dude, I can't believe the 25,000 an hour for some of these high-profile attorneys. Like, what? Crazy. And then the Brad and Angelina that goes on for seven years. Seven years? Seven years. Something comes up. A couple people have to work on her case. 25K in the mail, 25K in the mail. That's going to be a seven-figure check all day for those two. I just wonder at some point, it's like, does just like not ego take over, but like the battle of right versus wrong, the battle of like, I'm going to win this. The battle is like, I'm not

letting her off that easy, but it's like just bleeding both of you. It's like, what are we doing here? Well, 100%. I think in these scenarios, ego completely takes over, especially if you look at infidelity, right? If someone is cheating, you just want to take them to the cleaners. You just it's like a tit for time. I'm going to get them back, which is so unhealthy. And I just, it's just a deep conversation and there's so many moving parts. And there are such a large portion of United States and people that are divorced. It's more common than uncommon. David, real quick on the retainer fee. It's exactly what you just asked. You said, how much is Tom Brady have to put down? That's what a retainer fee is. She alluded to it a little bit. It's just the

amount of money you're paying up front. Imagine it like a deposit. So you put that retainer in for 250K. And then what you have to do is as the money's being charged, it's like used as it will take from it. Now, I want to say real quick, different PR. If you guys hear people that they have PR agents and stuff, they'll say like, oh, they're on a four month retainer. So when I paid my PR to help me with the book, I was on a two-month retainer. So that means I have a monthly amount that I owe those PR people per month for two months minimum guarantee. Okay. So Tom Brady pays 250. Let's say the bill back only gets to 200K and he doesn't get that 50K back, does he? No chance. Once the work's done, once hours are work, it's gone. It doesn't matter. Okay. And it's usually

a retainer's a minimum and it's going to cost more than that. Correct. Yep. So one thing that I learned from this was, you know, like she said, a good pre-up can cost, you can get one, she said, you can get one for a good one for 5 to 10,000. I'm married, we don't have a pre-nup, wasn't educated on it and hearing all the stuff back. Sometimes it's like, yes, but sometimes it's like it's just still scary to think about and hear about. I just wonder, because of the cost of it, the last thing people want to do when getting married and planning a wedding and spending on a wedding and buying a house like who has 510K kicking around for a pre-up something that it's really hard to talk about anyways um you know what was your take when you would during all the like the pre-up

talk and the finances behind it and the timing of all that behind it she's obviously a huge fan to them but i just want to get your take on that yeah i mean it makes to me it makes no sense why anyone shouldn't have a pre-nup i think 5 to 10k was an estimation let's not forget kelly's operating out of la you know the the attorney cost of 500 dollars an hour are not always the cost, especially like in lower tier markets. And a lot of this stuff, I think what she said, even with like, you know, having a contract on certain things, you can probably minimize the amount of work an attorney has to do by going online, finding basic contracts, customizing it to you, giving it to an attorney, saying, hey, these are the things we

want to agree to you. Can you just put it in attorney language? And I feel like that would be like more of like a one to three to four thousand dollar thing but i think you bring up a good point i think you're bringing you're being the voice of the viewer five to 10k who's got that money now i'm going to bring in like the investing side who's got 100 000 who's got 250 000 who's got all this dude you heard everything she said the money to engage in a divorce that's that's insane i mean how do you not protect against that you have to we all have like i'm sure most people out there listen you have health insurance, you're protecting against a catastrophic event, right? You have a heart attack tomorrow and it costs $90,000. You've got health insurance. I don't understand in a world

where we know that 50% of relationships aren't working why you wouldn't put that money up front to just define it how you two want it. So if it does happen, it's over. It's done. It's taken care of. That's the big part is like it's a mathematical equation that like, hey, 50% of these things end in divorce and you have an option at the start to save yourself hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, which money and cents is probably the number one reason why people divorce in the first place, which makes a lot of sense. It's just a crazy thing. The whole idea of marriage is kind of wild. Like, we got into it a little bit. Like, if you're religious and you believe into a higher being, obviously, there's a lot of reason why you get married. Okay. Yeah.

If you believe in like- Her answer on that, by the way. You know, I loved her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can respect that answer. I mean, I think there, I'll stay. I'll stay. stick to what I believe there's got to be some higher greater reasoning right like maybe it's just you want to put in character and principles for your family if you have kids you know I don't know but if it's just the transaction if that's how you're looking at it just the transaction realistically there's not really many reasons to get married in today's world I want I wonder when the legality of marriage became a thing like I wonder like in the 1800s when you have a husband and a wife, like, if you got a divorce back then, like, when did, when did the

pre-nup originate? Can you Google that for me? What's good. When did the pre-nump originate? And as you do that, I say it because, like, I always get jealous of like the sports announcers and stuff. They have instant facts because they have 8,000 people working behind them, giving to them. But here we are. It looks like a pre-nump was signed in the mid-1400s. When did pre-numps become a thing? The pre-numps are one of the earliest known pre-numps are over 2,000 years old. Crazy. Wow. Interesting. Crazy.

You would think that we've gotten to a place where you have to get a marriage license. You'd have to do this. You'd think a pre-up would just be prerequisite in, you know, the marriage process a little bit because it has so much effect on things. Yeah. I wonder if the idea of marriage will change with generations. Like you think about today, right? like people are getting married later in life. And it's actually the statistics behind people getting married later in life is working

because the divorce rate in that group has gone down. And you think about why people are getting married later in life because of like independence, maybe like longer. We live longer. But I don't know. Like is there ever a world in which like the process of getting married decreases significantly? Because like if you look at right now, any type of Christianity most religions right now as far as like practicing and new users and

hours dedicated is down yeah I'm wondering yeah I mean the trends change I don't know I feel like it will because as people get married in an older clip the amount of people married will go down and down at that given time you know but but the thing against it is like common law is a thing if you live with someone for 10 years and you're in a relationship with them you're in common law which basically like the government or the state saying you guys are married like it's just a a less you know what I mean like you didn't conform to the acts of marriage but you know for the tax man for the you are married so it's I hear what you're saying I just don't know where we draw the line in terms of like, you know, the act of marriage or the legality of marriage because common

law, to my knowledge, is the same thing. Interesting. It's a wild conversation. If you guys could, I'm curious the debate of preempts. Go to our reviews. Please give us five stars. And when you give us five stars, just give us your opinion, your pro or against a preemps. I'm just very curious what the average take is out there. There's so many elements of this discussion, which I even wish we had more people like that could come on and give us their opinion of it because there are so many different opinions out there. What we do know is that people are getting married later. We do know there's a little bit of success in it. We do know that pre-numps right now are more prevalent than they've ever been. And we all just learned how much damn money it cost to go

through a divorce. And so it's an eye-opening. And I feel like I honestly feel like I'm educated and I know more, but I feel uncomfortable. Do you feel uncomfortable? Like, it's all sad, it's crazy, it's eye-opening. As the voice of the viewer who's been married for three years and everything that I've learned through this podcast and especially like this episode just kind of cements it, like, yeah, I think that I wish that I went and got one,

but it's not because my marriage, I'm uncertain about my marriage, but ever all the facts point to the fact that I should have at least looked into one. But I also... When I think about having to go back and get one, I get the hebi-jeebies, man. I'm honestly so grateful that I haven't had to have that conversation with my wife because of from like a feeling perspective because of the feel that I'll never need to.

But feelings and realities obviously, you know, have changed for a lot of people over time. So it's just one of those things. It's like, you know, avoid it like the plague and hope it never becomes a reality. And that's the only way that it works out in the positive because if it doesn't work out, then you're going to go back and have tons of regrets on it. So, you know, getting ahead of it doesn't change the love in your marriage or shouldn't change it from the start. Yeah, it's, it's interesting.

So David's more against prenumps. I'm more for prenupt. I'm not against them. I see the purpose. Maybe just like deep down and like I'm just, that whole conversation is just like a lot of conversations we talk about, financial literacy, like educating the consumer. you're like I'm just I never and this is why I love the podcast so much not to get too much into it but like I never what I never sorry I'm just like in my thoughts right now I just

it's just one of those conversations that you grow up thinking that you never want to have and so that's why I never had it because you grew up thinking that pre-nup is related to divorce and I never want to get divorce and so I never wanted to have the conversation and so that's kind of where I grew up on it now if my parents had gotten divorce you damn right better believe I'd probably be getting a pre-up in my relationship. But anyways, that's way too much on me and my thoughts on that. What were you at with, with, you know? No, I agree. I agree with you. I think it's interesting. My, you know, my grandparents got married at 18. My parents were still been married for 35. I think the world's changing. I think times are changing. And I hope this

podcast could bring some type of value to you. So that being said, if you have it, make sure you go follow us on Instagram, trading secrets and give us five stars. David, anything before we close it out? yeah speaking of instagram trading secrets always seeing you you got a deal the week for us i've been you know as i cruise it i see the deals i see the posts i see the codes you know got to give the people out there voice of the viewer help us out here over here uh what what kind of deals we got going on this week we've had some we've had some good deals on the trading secrets instagram page but one i think that makes a lot of sense especially now with the price of everything going up we have partnered with a group called branch basics so the whole idea behind them is they have this one

concentrate model. And so one bottle, the whole bottle of this concentrate will make three all-purpose bottles, three streak-free bottles, three bathroom bottles, three foaming wash bottles, and 64 loads of laundry. That's like the whole pitch we did on the Instagram trading secrets. So if you look at the cost, you're talking about like pennies for those items where if you go to the store right now, those items are costing many, many dollars. So that's Branch Basics. That was a cool one. The code we put on Instagram was trading secrets, literally just the code, trading secrets for 15% off. So, David, go save yourself some money. And the viewers, go save yourself some money. Always like a deal here. Always like insight and always like to talk money. This was a different one. We hope you

enjoyed it. And we did it because we heard in some of the reviews, you guys like more current topic. So we'll continue to do what we're doing. Thank you for all the five stars. Thank you for following. Hopefully this was another episode of Trading Secrets. One, you couldn't afford to miss. Please make that money and money, money, living that dream. Making that money, money, money, pay on me. Making that money, money, living that dream. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or

services referred to in this episode.