Trading Secrets - 90: $2,250/week as a comedy writer! Comedian Heather McDonald gives the Juicy Scoop to her wild success through her podcast, navigating the comedy scene and writing for late night

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

This week, Jason is joined by the wildly successful comedian, author, and pop culture podcast host, Heather McDonald!     Heather burst onto the scene in the late nineties working as writer and actress for various TV shows through Hollywood. She first gained popularity through her standup comedy shows throughout Los Angeles and eventually landing a role as a writer and roundtable regular on the hit E! Series Chelsea Lately. When Heather isn’t headlining theaters across the country with her comedy acts or spending time with her family, she is diving into all things pop culture on her top rated podcast, Juicy Scoop.    Heather gives insight to why she went to USC for communication with a business minor when she wanted to work in entertainment, how her family and friends encouraged her to go into standup, why going to an all girls high school made her a standup comedian, how her main source of income was from being a  real estate agent with her parents, and how she got back into comedy. Heather also reveals what facilitating a date on the Bachelorette was like, why she thinks the Bachelor franchise needs to reinvented, what she wish she knew earlier when going into auditions and interviews, the big mistake she made at her first late night show writing gig, and how she has been able to monetize on her podcast. Did she have to pay or did she get paid to host a date on the Bachelorette? What was the first late night show she got paid to write for? Where does she think stand up comedy will be in 40 years? How did her podcast Juicy Scoop get started?    Heather reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!    Be sure to follow the Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram & join the Facebook   Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.   Sponsors: Visit squarespace.com/secrets for a free trial, then get 10% off a website or domain with code secrets Rocketmoney.com/secrets to cancel your unwanted subscriptions Get your first box for just $1.49 per meal by going to Everyplate.com/podcast and entering code 149secrets   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by the wildly successful comedian, author and pop culture podcast host Heather McDonald. Heather burst onto the scene in the late 90s, working as a writer and actress. for various TV shows throughout Hollywood. She first gained popularity through her stand-up comedy shows throughout Los Angeles and eventually landing a role as a writer and roundtable regular

on the hit E-series Chelsea Lately. When Heather isn't headlining theaters across the country with her comedy acts or spending time with her family, she is diving into all things pop culture on her top-rated podcast, Juicy Scoop. So we're going to dive into behind-the-scenes of the world of the show business, the difficult path to success in Hollywood,

but especially as a comedian and how comedy has changed in recent years and where she thinks it's going. Heather, thank you so much for being here. We're excited to have you on trading secrets. So who wrote that? Who wrote that for me?

Yeah. See, no one's ever asked me that. So somebody, like, put it together and wrote it? Yeah, so every episode, I have someone that works for me. Can you email that to me? That's kind of nice. Do you like that? Yeah, I actually really liked it.

Maybe change your bio? It can also work for my eulogy and I really love it. Stephen, do you hear that? We're going to have, Heather's going to start working for you. I'll give me his contact information. Don't take them from me. Heather and I were just talking before I came in. The last time we saw each other, we were behind the scenes when Caitlin and Tasha were hosting Katie's season, and you were on that season.

Yes, I did, like, facilitate a group date. What did you think about, are you a bachelor fan? I was such a bachelor fan. I watched him all. I got into it and talked about it on my show, on my show, Juicy Scoop. And so they asked me to, like, you know, help facilitate, you know, a date. Okay. But God, that place was so not nice.

That was in the New Mexico location. Yeah, interesting. And granted, it's COVID. And then, like, so I've never gotten COVID. And I never took one day off. Okay. I never took a break. I was like, hey, to my assistant, if you don't want to work, you don't have to, you can

leave and get unemployment. But I'm going to be running my show. And if you want to come, it's just us and whatever. Yeah. So, you know, people would get, I can't believe she's out and smiling. Whatever. I continue to work and I never got COVID.

I got vaccinated. I got asked to do this thing. And part of it is that I had to be isolated for five days at this hotel in New Mexico. That's right. And I actually loved it. You loved the isolation. Because I was never sick and I never had that much time.

To just be by yourself. I mean, I still have to do some stuff for the podcast. But like, to have like five days to like literally not do. anything. I know a lot of people did that for two years. I don't know what that's like. Yeah. But the place was, it was time of year, I don't think very pretty. And I said to the producers, I was like, like, really? This is what you guys got? Like, come on, you know? And she said, someone said to me, they were supposed to go to some beautiful place in Canada. But because there was a spike in COVID that week, they had to scramble and get this place. That's right. I do

remember that, that five-day experience you had was like being on the show. So when you're on the show, no phone, no TV, no internet, no nothing. Oh, but I had the phone and TV internet. Yeah, but you're still nicely, it was nice. It was like a good self-reflection time. But I remember about that place, too, not to go too often on tangent here, but that place, the food

was shit. Horrible. There was like four things to choose from. Yeah. Southwest salad. And I want to say like a vegetarian chili. Yeah. A burger. All right. That's it. It was tough. It was in five days. And at a certain point, I'm like, hey, I'm leaving, but, like, you guys need to find, like, another cater

or something, because people are going to, like, lose their mind with their South West salad. Like, it was... It's got to be done. All right, question for you that. When you got to go on the show, is that, do they do, like, when they have people like you on the show, I've heard two things. Okay. I have heard that there are some people that do acts, and you were hosting a date.

But there are some people that do acts or country singers who sing. Right. They have to pay to go on the show because of the exposure. Then there's some people that, like, take a hosting role, and then they get paid. Were you paid or did you have to pay? I got paid. Okay. I gave a third of it back in order for them to say Heather McDoll from Juicy Scoop.

Interesting. That's pretty cool. That's something I've never heard. And I was like the money was worth it to give that up. And so when they introduced you. If you're not going to say juicy scoop, like come on. Yeah. You know, so.

Yeah. So you asked for them to do it and then the response was a third back and we'll do it. Which makes sense. So that's cool. I'm glad I asked that because it's like a hybrid. Yeah. You got paid a little? You got paid a little. Right.

Okay. Real, but I didn't know that, that the acts actually paid it beyond. Yeah. So, yeah. I only know that from a buddy of mine who told me that he was interested in doing it, and he told me the cost behind it. And it was significant. Right.

Well, sometimes they do that with like a morning show or a daytime show. Yeah. I have a friend who was like kind of crafty and it would cost money for her to go on the show to like push her brand and her crafts or whatever. So that, you know, because it's such a good advertising for them. And I'm like, okay, but I think, I always thought it was so funny of The Bachelor with some young guys, like 24, and you'd be like, and then, and they like have the side of your girl, I couldn't believe that three-time Grammy winner, you know, Gloria Estefan or whatever. And I'm like, as if you even know, like, you're 24, this person's 60, like, you don't know. And as you're like, rolling off your tongue, like, American a Music Award winner, you're like, yeah, right.

Yeah, what they have to do there is like, okay, this is who it is. We'll be like, it is so nice to be at the, you know, Shangri-La, blah, blah, and they're like, you don't know what hotel it is, but you have to, like, stay the hotel and the way where it is and the year was established, so you're saying that to promote it. Are you able now with your career and with your fiancé's career to talk about, like, what do you think the future is of this? Or do you not want to talk about that? I think it's, so here's a deal.

There's certain things contractually we still can't talk about, which I'm hoping in our conversation already, I haven't broken. I've gotten a couple cease and desist. Don't want another one. I think what we could do is you could definitely talk about the outlook of what you think, for sure. That's just an opinion-based. It's changed a lot. And I'm not just talking about the change of Mark Harrison, because is that his name?

Chris. Chris Harrison, yeah. Chris Harrison, because I thought that was, I actually thought that was kind of okay. And I thought it was fine for Chris. I'm like, he doesn't have to travel the world. He got a big chunk of money. He could do something else. And I felt like, and I would joke about this in my stand-up, but I'm like, I don't think it's a bad idea because I'm like, when it started,

Chris Harrison and Alex Michelle were the same age. So it was like, let me be your right-hand guy to guide you. Then we get women being the Bachelorette. And then everyone gets younger. And I feel like it's really young now. It used to be

like 28 to 33. Sure. Now it's like 20 to like 25 max. Yeah. And so, which is fine. But I thought it did get a little bit where it's like, his So, overnights are coming up.

Like a little, like, okay, you're literally the age of our dad. And when the girls are sitting there with, like, no makeup on and their glasses, they look so young. And I was just like, I think, so I'm fine with that part. I think, though, I just kind of, you know, I don't know. I don't know where it is. Heather's ready for a change in the Batchel Franchise. Or you think it's a sinking ship. I don't, I don't know that's a sinking ship because I think it's still such an established wheel.

Yeah. I just don't know how to, like, reinvent it. Like, keep it, but I think it, I think they need to go on, like, a retreat, like everyone that works for The Bachelor and kind of go, what's working, what's not, but what's also, like, reflective with people who date, and then, like, you know, and then it just becomes such a machine, too, for the people that choose to go on it. I mean, it always was a machine, even 15 years ago where if you wanted to be, like, a e-news host.

It was a great outlet. But now I feel like there's so many people going, well, if nothing else, I'll get a podcast. Or if nothing else, I'll get it. Which it's like, you know, your fiancé and Nick are the only two that I feel, and Ashley I, that I feel like have, like, sustained it. And it's probably because you guys got going on it like four years ago. And so now I kind of feel like there's this whole just community of people,

but I still think it's great because then they go on to The Bachelor in Paradise. Yes. still enough. It's not in the zeitgeist that it was 10 years ago, but I don't think it's going to go anywhere. Everything you said is right. So we've had a lot of former contestants come on and what do we talk about here? Like the career change, the money behind things. And what I've learned is there are some people from the show who have really carved out lanes. Nick's been on the podcast. Of course Caitlin has and have done really well and sustained it and will sustain it. And then there's probably the majority who haven't been able to find the lane and then

it all falls apart and they move on and go in their separate direction. But the one thing that was consistent is for about five-year period, I would say from like Jojo's season, even Andy Dorfman's season to even up to like Colton Pilot Pete season. A lot of people in that group came off the show and were making a shit ton of money with Instagram influencer. Now we just had Clayton on who was the bachelor like it was past season. He came on to talk about financial misconceptions. He's like people think that I make. He goes, I haven't made anything. I've made I've made max $50,000 for. it. And he goes, I would be better off if I went back to my medical sales rat. So that's interesting about the show, too, is the career opportunities in the launch pad for monetization has changed significantly in the last couple of years. Totally. Because it got like anything,

it gets overly saturated. But that's also the bummer, too, in the pool of people that they choose from. Because everybody was going on it. To get the shot. To go, at least I'll get a million Instagram followers and I can post a few things and get some free trips and wear revolve and go to Coachella. But like, and then you're not getting like a quality of people. Like you want the person that actually like left a job and that was like, you know what? I just think this would be fun, but I actually am a medical sales rep. I actually am a doctor or a lawyer or whatever.

Looking for my wife. Like a real story. Yeah. I get that. But I felt the guys were awful these last couple years. Interesting. And like, you know, I understand like it's, I was attracted to a different type. I'm from a different generation.

Yeah. So I'm not into this, like, very effeminate or whatever or, like, the look and the, I'm just not. So for me, I'm not really watching it anymore. Interesting. Because it's not my kind of, I liked, listen, I, I'm attracted to a guy that looks like you. Oh, okay. Not to make anyone uncomfortable. Let's go.

I'm attracted to a guy that's clean cut. I'm attracted to the frat guy. That's, and that's what the show was. it's yeah oh yeah and then i get it they're like let's not have the same type of people so let's mix it up and get like an artsy person or like a nose piercing and i get that's my style and that's fine but that's just not that's not my like that's not fun for me to watch anymore here's what we got to do the thing is guys if you're listening from the bachelor if i don't if i don't transition out of this i know heather and i are going to talk about the bachelor the whole time and we could

go ahead so here's the takeaway is going to be that bachelor producers if you're out there Bring her back on. Bring Heather in the mix and you will be the board of directors and you will sit down and give them all the advice. Honestly, or just take me to lunch and I'll just give you some consulting ideas. Yeah.

That's the answer. Now we've got to get into your career, right? Yeah. So wild career, right? So I looked up that comedians, 72% of stand-up comedians actually have a bachelor's degree. You have a bachelor's degree. Yes, I do from USC.

From USC. And then you started doing stand-up. Was that in your like trajectory from a career perspective, did you think that was going to be the case? And if so, why even go to college? I liked it. I was into acting and all that kind of stuff. But I was really jaded by knowing how hard it is to make it in LA. So at six years old, I was like, well, a lot of pilots don't get picked up. Good luck of sugar. Like, I was just like, so I thought, I'll go to USC, but I'm going to be a communication and business minor person. And at the time, when I was at SC, if somebody,

had a pager that did not mean they were a drug dealer it meant they had an agent and i'd see someone with a pager and it would make me go why am i not like pursuing what i should be pursuing i know this is what i should be pursuing so towards the end of my college i was like getting real anxious that it was ending and i was like all i love to do is go down to my sorority steps on a friday because thursday was the party night yep and people would be like did i miss the heather breakfast where i'd recap tap everything, say who is hooking up with who, imitate people. And so I was kind of like, how do I make this a job, you know? And so, but I was like, no.

So I go get this job at, I went to the job fair, right? And there was a recession happening when I graduated in 92. Okay. So the fact that I had like a regular job and I didn't have to move home and I could live in an apartment with three other girls in Brentwood, I was like, this is great, you know. And it was an awful job. It was an assistant buyer for Robinson. since May.

Okay. And that then became Macy's. And I wasn't good at it. It wasn't anything fashion driven. It was like, so anyway, I would go every day and have lunch by myself. And I always had a subscription to People magazine. My dad would send it to me in college. We always got it.

And I was like, I just want a job where one day I'm just reading this magazine for my job. Like, you know, you've heard of like the secret. I would do the secret without knowing I was doing the secret. like I look back and I would like in visualize and ask for things but not in that formal let's go to Michaels and make a a board and like you're like a manifestation board yeah but you just said to yourself I really like this shit I like reading this how do I make this my life like how do I get paid for this that was your thought I got fired for the job okay and but my friend right before I got fired who worked there she handed me a learning annex magazine which was this thing

that you could like go and you could see like you could you know would you like to be a hairdresser, would you like to be a film editor, a one-night class that you pay like $50 for, whatever it was at the time, do you want to be a stand-up? So I go to you want to be a stand-up, and the woman- Why, though? Why was stand-up that were you always like the funny guy, a funny person? Yes, I was always funny. I'd imitate everybody. And actually my music teacher at my all-girl high school said, I don't know why you're going to USC, you should just be a stand-up. And I was like, well, how would strangers know who I'm talking about when I'm imitating the algebra teacher? And so that's where the little, so I took the little class, the one night,

and then she had a whole class that you could take for like six weeks. At the end, you have an actual show at, like, an off night at a comedy club. And so I knew if I had, like, a deadline, and I knew if, like, people could come watch me, and my parents were so excited. They always said that. They'd be, like, watching any evening at the improv, and they'd be like, Heather, you should be up there. Like, I was that stand-up that actually had people that I didn't have a family that I was disappointing because I was a family of doctors.

They were telling you go do this. Like, yes, they were like, you're great, everything you do will turn out great. Question for you. Because we're going to get to that story and I can't wait. And I love that you had that support because not many people do. But now you've got to be curious. Yes. The algebra teacher and the sorority recaps in the morning.

Yeah. Can you give me a very small sample size of what the algebra teacher imitation looked like and what a sorority recap was that people were like, Heather's the funniest person ever? Well, I don't remember the algebra. But so we had a brother school named Crespi. It's an Encino. My son goes there now. And my school was Louisville.

And they had teepeeed us. We'd teepee each other. There was a merry fountain and they put like, you know, suds in it and our whole. So we make a plan of seniors that we're going to go to Cresby and we're going to like mess it up, right? So we did all that. And along with it, we put like tampons and pads with wings and like hung the tampons like ornaments all over this all boys. school. Clean ones. Of course. But, you know, and like, tapeed their school. And so the president of the school, the principal, whatever she was, she calls us in and she's like, what am I supposed

to do today? I have to go to eighth grade girls all over and say, come to Louisville, become woman, put tampons on your brother's school. And everyone was like, and I could do like her voice perfectly. So everyone's like, do it, do it. And then at the end, she came up to me. She's like, I heard you do it. impression of me. And I was like, sure, because now I'm like a senior and I'm graduating. So it was like going to the all-girl high school was like definitely why I'm a female stand-up well, female. It's why I'm female because you have to be a girl together. But it's definitely why I'm a stand-up today. Because I used to think I want to be a stand-up, but what man would ever want to marry a stand-up comic? Like all the stand-ups I saw were like unattractive and very

self-deprecating and very masculine. And then when I started doing it after I got fired from that job is only like 22. I was like, I just got to do what God, the gift that God gave me. Because if I know, I know I have a talent to do this thing that not everybody can do. So if I put it off because it's hard, oh, I'll just do something else. I'll just get into casting or writing or if I don't pursue this thing that I know I have this special talent for. That is like, that's an F you to God. Yeah. Okay. You know? So then I started doing it.

So you start doing it. You start doing it through classes. That's where you were at. I had to get a little breakdown there. Do a little classes, yeah. Then you get off class. What's the next play? I do Groundlings. What's that? Groundlings is sketch comedy theater.

It's been around forever. It's on Melrose. It's like a UCB or a Second City, but it's a little bit different of the style. It's a lot more writing and character work. Okay. And Jennifer Coolidge is still a friend of mine. She came from there. Kathy Griffin, Will Farrell.

All came from there. Yeah, Chris Pernel, Anna Gastire. I mean, forever. people that have come from there, you know, Phil Harmon forever. Okay, I want to get into that time and the trajectory. One thing I don't want to get away from is the people back home that could take something from your world and apply it to help them. When you went into stand-up comedy training, is there one piece of advice from that training or stand-up comedy that has like helped you in your personal life or with presentations or something that someone back home

was kind of lost in their career or lost within themselves? Like, is there one piece from that training that's actually applicable to all different things in the world professionally. Well, I think the one thing I wish I knew earlier on, because I was auditioning and everything too for things. Okay. Is that they, if you're going out for something, the person that's interviewing you or you're applying for school or whatever, they want it to be you. They want it to be you. They don't want to keep doing it. Everyone's lazy. That's a good point. And it saves them time and effort. You're there because it would be easier for them to take you. And I think

so many times I would go into that being like the world's against me attitude instead of oh my god aren't they going to be excited to see what I can bring to the table yeah okay like so I think you know and then also as far as stand up goes my biggest advice to stand up and in any career is like nobody has your life nobody has your grandma no one has where he grew up nobody has you know yeah there's something unique about yes you might be the Jewish kid from Encino, whose dad was attorneys, okay, that's that. But there's something, your unique point of view, your crazy story from your childhood. And so I always tell that to stand-ups, like, especially now with female stand-ups, I feel

so many are just like, so I went out with this guy, and I fucked him. Like, it's always like, oh, I'm so slutty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, well, okay, where are you going to go with that? Yeah. But if you could come over with an act that's, like, really unique to your life or your immigrant parent or whatever your funny, weird story was, then, you know, you could come over. that's your unique point of view.

No one can steal that. Everyone can steal a Tinder joke. Yeah. I love that. So it's like, and then that just makes it easier in your career. And that goes for anything. Like embrace that. You have something unique.

And I think if you're listening back home, that's piece of advice, yeah, if you're a stand-up comedian, you can use. But that's like if you're telling a story on a first date, if you're trying to connect with a boss. And I also like the big takeaway up, you're there for a reason, right? You get the opportunity. You're on stage. You get the interview. you haven't been able to get.

Don't like yourself out. You're there for a reason. You land the first opportunity. How much you're getting paid when you perform at this theater that all these big comedians have performed at early on in their career? The Brownlee's is the school.

Oh, it's still a school. You get paid nothing. Oh, I misunderstood that. The only time I made any money was my first job I got was I wrote for Keenan Ivory Wains. He had a late night talk show. And that was a real Riders Guild deal.

Everybody gets the same for a five-night it's a category. If you're a writer on a late night show that's like four or five nights a week, there's a base salary. So what do you think it was per week? Okay, per week, base salary. It would have been 1997 or eight. 1997. I'm going to go $1,100. No, it's $2.50. That's pretty, that's really good. 2250. It's something like that, yeah. Yeah. But unfortunately, I made a big mistake. What'd you do? So after 11 weeks, they were supposed to tell me if they're going to pick up my next 13 week contract. Because they're 13 week contracts. Yeah. And yeah, said anything and my agents didn't know anything. And I never called in sick or anything like that. And there was like the

Tuesday that like the next day my manager agent goes, I have two auditions for you for like pilots, like sitcom pilots. And there's no way I could like leave in the day and do this. So I'm like, Well, I've never called in sick. I'm going to call in sick. And I'm going to take the day off and go on these two auditions since they haven't told me if they're going to pick me up or not. Like, what if they don't? And I could get this sitcom.

So I call in sick. And the night before, he's like, we had a guest coming in. And he's like, I want you to work on something for this guest, this female guest. So I kind of like, he gave me like an assignment. And then I call in sick, okay, which would have been fine, except there was. So the next day they come in and he's like, where's Heather? And the writer's assistant is like, she's sick. And then this other guy, this other comedian, goes, who's writing the show, goes, you know, Keenan, it is pilot season.

Oh, that's such bullshit. And he was right. Yeah, but he threw you under the boss. And so then that night, I'm at the comedy store, because I also did like a set or something. Okay. Or went to see somebody, which also is dumb. But this is before you were posting everything, right? So you could kind of get away with it unless some dick wants to tell you. And so, I call and I get a page or whatever, call me. And it's the writer's assistant. And he's like, hey, Kaden says you don't have to come in tomorrow. And I go, no, I feel better now.

He goes, no, you don't ever have to come back. Oh, shit. You just have to come pick up your stuff. So I got fired, which is like one of my biggest regrets. But I wrote him this nice note. And I was like, thank you for giving my first, you know, job in the business and blah, blah, blah. I really wish you all the best success in life because he was a dad and stuff. And then that was it.

And I was like, but then, like, it eventually got canceled, but I would have been picked up and I would have gotten, like, residuals for, like, another year because they paid repeats for a year. And then they wrote scary movie. No way. And they used all the writers. And I think I would have been able to work on that

and maybe even got thrown apart. So time goes on. I really regret it. And then I see him at the comedy store one night. And he's so nice. And I start telling him about my weird family. And I'm doing stand-up again. And he's like, you know what?

Let's work together, da-da-da-da. This is Keenan. This is Keenan. And we kind of have like some things that we talk about. A couple things we like work on whatever, but nothing. And then one of the writers from the show, they go, we, again, they were writing a parody of like signs, the movie signs and alien movies. And they're like, there's always a single mom and like E.T. and all that stuff. They're like, we need a single mom.

So then they're like, he's like, get Heather. And I had just given birth to my son who's 20 now. And I go and they call and they're like, can you do this? and we're going to pay you this much a week, which was still really good, to just, like, go to his house and, like, watch movies and come up with, like, ideas.

So cool. And I was, like, all right, you know, and that was it. Like, I, my husband was like, okay. And a really good thing about me is that I wasn't breastfeeding. That's another thing. Mom, you do not have to breastfeed. I just, but that's not why. Sure.

It just didn't work out for me. Sure. So I could leave the two-month-old with my husband, very capable of hands, and go do these writing sessions. And then, anyway, that movie got shelved, but then they're like, we want you to work on this idea.

we have white chicks. No, I saw that they got, they sold white chicks an idea. And I go to the producer and I go, I mean, can I work on this white chicks thing? I mean, you guys need at least one white chick, right, to help you write white chicks. So then they had the idea of white chicks, but then I helped with the scenes and the characters and all that stuff. And then I got to be in it too. Oh, that is so cool. Okay. So, okay, and here's part of the real. Let's go back to the numbers, too. The 2300 or 2350 or something, the reason I'm so intrigued by that is I did some research. It said the average annual income for stand-up comedians of U.S. is $69,500. So I was surprised that is a writer. I would think if that's the average for a stand-up, I'd expect a writer. And I know

it's a different show, a different level. But that's a lot. In 1990, something, over $100,000 a year, if you annualize that. $2,000 plus week, that's a good. Yeah, but then you need to have breaks and stuff. You wouldn't get paid during the breaks. So it's not. So you're paid a little bit more because there's it's it's contractual yeah okay and because there's a writer's guild i mean that's why writer's guild and actor skills were were invented because people would do this shit for free yeah because we're artists and most stand-ups do stand-up for free and whatever that averages that's also averaging what dave chapelle makes and sure and amy schumer and what i make yeah and so it would be interesting what does the average comedian make that

headlines clubs make yeah or the median would be good because the average If the media, that's what, okay, stay tuned to the recap, guys. We're going to get the media in. I want to ask you about this, though. I always think about the writers. I know you said you wrote for white chicks. I'm going to get into that. But when I see like Jimmy Kimmel doing his speech, or you see some of these people,

and it's all written for them, none of these people are writing their own stuff. Yes or no? Well, the way, I mean, you know, the way I understand it is, you know, they still put their own spin on it and they still pick the jokes. Okay. But, I mean, it would be impossible to write your own monologue yourself. But like when we did with Kina, he would still, he would oftentimes think it was all shit and just go out and do it himself. And so, and when I wrote on Chelsea Lidley, she didn't do a monologue, but we would do topics.

And then we would write a bunch of jokes for her and then she would pick them. And then she'd have them, but she was still very improvisational. And then she never knew what the other people were going to see on the panel. So it was a little bit different, but we still wrote stuff. And then so, yeah, but like, yeah. Is it possible for like, because here's what consumers say out there. Some people will be like, Jimmy Kimmel's not that funny, and I don't want to get why he's his stander. I'm just using this exact example.

I don't know that he even really was a stand-up. Like, he started with Adam Carolla. Yes. And he really got famous from that. And now he's been doing his own show for so long. So really being a stand-up is like a totally different. And I'm going to make a prediction that I just said yesterday. Let's hear it.

I don't know that stand-up comedy will exist in like 40 years. Because of social media. No. Well, a little bit, but because younger people will not. put in the work to be a great stand-up the way my generation did. And when you say put in the work.

I'm seeing it now. I'm seeing it with my friend who runs a female like a comedy class. And she's like we have the little class at the end and nobody wants to go to the open mics. Nobody wants to like put in the hours.

Why? When I can do a TikTok when I can, you know, do something and get the love right there from the privacy of my own home, why would I want to go and like perform for three people and wait and humiliate myself and all that. But that's the only way you get good at stand-up. And it's like the one reason why I don't really have to do stand-up anymore because my podcast

is so successful as far as financially. But I say like there's so few people on this earth that can do this one particular art form that I don't want to let the muscle go away completely. Because a lot of people can do podcasts. A lot of people can do a live podcast. A lot of people. is insanely hard. It's a completely different animal

to get up with just a mic for an hour and 20 minutes. No notes. No, no nothing. You're literally entertaining when not singing dancing, just your jokes. That's like one of them,

I think one of the most challenging gigs in the world. And even though you're doing the same act, you're like tweaking it, you're getting better and better and better and better and like having, you know. Okay. So I don't know that people, like if you think about it,

there isn't, like, I don't know that we're going to see a bunch of like 25-year-old. I don't know that we're going to see a bunch of 25-year-old, like amazing stand-ups. I feel like the youngest one that we know is Pete Davidson, and I don't think he's an amazing stand-up.

I think he's an interesting, funny person. But I don't know that he's no Dave Chappelle, you know, and Dave Chappelle was that at 25. True or false? Is it possible you could be like a late-night talk show, individual personality, that actually isn't that funny, but you just have amazing writers.

I hear that's a misconception. A lot of people are like, You don't have to be a comedian. They're just very talented at delivery and other people are writing for them. They're not that funny. Do you agree or disagree with that as a comedian? I totally agree. Interesting.

I definitely think even people, there's people that are just naturally funny and they're like the comics comic and like make you cry every minute and like and then there's people that like study it and like study it and the math of a joke and this and that. And then also if there, I mean, you see people. people act like comedians on TV, and they're not comedians, and you believe that they're a comedian. So, yeah, if the material is given to you and you're engaging personality, I mean, you know, is James Corden like that funny? I mean... Question mark. You know, but he's very entertaining. He was a good choice because of the singing

and the likability and the English accent and all that. Like, I get why these people get the job, but are they the funniest? Because it's a different, again, stand. up like is such a different thing and even now like especially with that you don't and that I don't have to say or do anything that I don't want to do yeah you know if you're working for ABC you're you're not going to be able to do the show you want to do but who cares if you're getting paid 15 million dollars a year right because this is something I didn't know was your main job source of income real estate yes wow as a real estate agent with my parents you had to be the funniest real estate agent in the planet well it would be it would be kind of funny because

I'd be like on a home inspection in Burbank and someone would be like weren't you want, now I'm in the middle last night. I was like, yes, I actually was. Interesting. But then it was great because I had my parents, so like I'd come over, we lived close by, and I'd go to my parents' house, and I'd like have my mom read with me. And I could always leave, and I didn't, you know,

I wasn't screwing over a client because there was always two other people. And I always loved real estate too. Were you making more money as like a writer for Keenan or in real estate? I mean, if I was a full-time writer for a year, probably the writer writing. Because like I because I wasn't like fully hungry.

Like my parents, I was like, you know, I was like a poor version of Maricio and his two daughters. Yeah, he's next. He's coming up next. So I was, I always tell him that. I go, I'm, I go, we were doing it first. And I actually sold a scripted show to CBS about a girl who works with her parents in real estate. No way. That is so funny.

I mean, he didn't go past the pilot stage, but we did do that. Gotcha. And so is, but again, I wasn't door knocking. Like the rent listings would come and then I would help service them and take the photos and like, whatever. Sure. And so then I hadn't done stand-up. I stopped doing stand-up because I lived all the way in Woodland Hills and I still needed to get people to go to the shows

and then I felt like, what am I do? I can't talk about dating like I'm a married woman. So I wasn't doing it. And I started watching Last Comic Standing. Yeah. And it was making me really miss it. So all of a sudden, out of the blue, this girl calls me, Lisa Sunset, who runs pretty funny women,

who is telling you about it. She calls me and she goes, I ran into this person and I can't believe you quit stand-up. You were like the best one I ever had. I go, I didn't quit it. She's like, Heather, I think it's been like seven years. I go, it has. So I go, all right, well, put me down.

And again, like a deadline. She's like, okay, August, whatever, I'm doing a girl's all-girl, funny, pretty funny women show at the improv. I'm like, all right, so now I have to come up with an act. And I'm calling comedians that I used to work with, like, Ian Edwards and stuff. And I'm like going through stuff.

And he's like, that's funny. That's kind of hacky. And I'm like just coming up with like this stuff about my life now, like being a mom and da-da-da. And so I go out and I do it and I'm like, okay, now I have a solid 10 minutes. Now I can build on this. I start doing it again. And in these girl things, these girl shows, I know Chelsea.

I don't know her well. So I see Chelsea and we're like having fun. And that girl, Lisa goes, oh, Chelsea's going to take over Howard Sternspot on E. It's going to be a five, nine a week show. I don't want a full-time job. And I go, well, I do. And I can write for Chelsea. If I can write for a black guy, I can write for.

like a drunk pretty blonde girl like that's way more up my alley you know so she's like call her and i didn't really know her and i texted her and i was like i want to try i want to submit to do your show and i think she was kind of surprised because we were always going out for the same thing so i think sometimes people think i always tell people tell them let the person know that you want the job it might be your best friend and you're like i can't believe that jennifer didn't ask me to be her assistant tell them you want to tell them you want the job yeah and so then i wrote a thing and I got the job and then I was like oh my god now I'm gonna have to leave both my boys for 13 weeks but then the show will be canceled and at least I have a credit because now I'm

36 and if I don't get back in the game I'm gonna be too old to ever get in it so then I but then of course it went on for seven years crazy so would you say that has been the biggest like monumental move for you definitely because when I started doing so then the show ended at at seven years And then I was, like, doing other things that I had a couple of pilots at TLC that, like, didn't go past, like, six episodes or whatever. And then I was like, now, people had podcast back then. I was guests on them. I didn't even know how to listen. We would mock podcast.

We'd be like, that loser with his podcast. Like, we were like that because we were TV, right? Sure, sure. So then I literally said, well, I guess my career is so in the dump. I'm going to a podcast. It's time for a podcast. What is it? And so I go and I'm like, and the guy goes, well, what do you think you'd call it?

And I go, I always say, what's the juicy scoop? So then I got that name. And then I basically just treated it the way I did, was a writer-producer on Chelsea lately because I loved all the hot topics. But instead of 60 people, it's like me. It was just me. Now I have one person. One person.

But like, I come up with all the topics. I like, you know, all that kind of stuff. But the freedom of it is like, I don't always have to be funny. You know, like I'll interview someone that just has a juicy story or I'll do a crime with my sister who's a criminal defense attorney. Cool. You know, like, and I just love being able to do all of it myself. But that's, but asking for the job is important that you ask for the job. That's a good one.

That's a good takeaway. The podcast, too, juicy scoop podcast. So he started in 2015. That's before there was like the big, big podcast push. I didn't know anyone that made a dollar. I did not know one person who made money on it. Off podcast. No.

The reason I did it is I was at a way. but they call B Room, which is like, not like an improv, like a smaller comedy club. I was there for the weekend. And I was in the small room with the guy, like, smelled like fried food. He's like writing my check. And I look over and I see Tom Segora.

And I go, oh, he's married to my friend, Christina Pisinski. I go, he has a really popular podcast. And he goes, yeah, he comes in here on a Tuesday night and makes $10,000 just from people that follow his podcast. Now, he wasn't on TV. What year was this? He was not known. That would have been 2015.

So that had to be earth-shattering TV. And I literally was like the next day, I'm like, I'm going to get a podcast because all I thought about was I'm not on TV anymore where Chelsea's like, Heather, tell them we're going to be this week. You know, so I and I was making the money for my family and only doing stand-up. So I'm like, how do I get people, how do I keep being able to make, you know, 35, $4,000 a weekend or less doing stand-up if nobody's coming? So I only did the podcast so that people would come to see my stand-up. Interesting. And that's why when I was making $700 a month, until the producer goes, Heather, you cannot resign this contract my first year.

He's like, your numbers are huge and you're making no money. We talked about that earlier, but I don't know if the listeners heard it, $700 a month. That's what you said you were making off the podcast. Interesting. And so then how did you get in a position to start monetizing it aggressively? Well, I left that company. and then so in leaving that company we made a good deal with Wondry

got it and then I was at Wondry for a while and they wanted me to instead of go to two days a week they wanted me to like oh I was at two days a week but I remember he goes I'd rather you do two different shows

and I was like no I want to just keep it what it is so then we went to another company where then I kept it Tuesday and Thursday now I do have been doing a Patreon or an extra juicy scoop that Friday we should get on Apple or Patreon. And so it's really three days a week.

And then it says like that's and then of course every time you do another deal, you have more leverage and you're more known. But what people need to know about podcasting is like you really cannot make any money on it unless you have like at least, I don't know, I would guess at least 5,000 listeners to even get like a micro ad. Totally. But the same way people were like, you'll never be. make it a, you know, you're never going to make any money as a stand-up. I'm like, if you,

this equipment's so cheap. Like, if you want to do it, and what a great way just to chronicle anything. Totally. Or, like, practice on your mom. Like, I wish my parents passed. I had not started the stand, the podcast before they passed. But I'm like, I would have loved to have come over and, like, ask them these questions and just had it. And it's recorded. And they would have loved to have been able to listen to it and everything. I mean, they got to see my first stand-up special but my mom did my dad didn't but like I just think so that's like you know that's why I feel like oh whoever would have a podcast I make fun of it too but at the same time yeah you can make money at it but also it just could like kind of release some creative juices maybe it leads

to you like writing something or you meet or getting business because it's a good network that's why I say too like if you don't have downloads right we're not going to monetize you might be able to meet someone who can change a business trajectory and it's just satisfying because it's like I remember, what is the guy with the big teeth that's like the, Tony Robbins. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tony Robbins, I got those Tony Robin tapes, okay, from a long time ago, like, Pamela Anderson was on it and stuff. Because I wanted to be an actress, but I was making no money and I was not, but I was like, is it Scientology? Is it Tony Robbins?

Like, what's going to get me to, like, be normal in a fucking room and book a job? And so I... I'll do anything. I know. So I listened to those tapes, and you would say things like, even if you're doing, you're, doing some job, but you have this other desire to do something, like stand-up or whatever, just do something every day, whether that's like, send out a resume, write an email to someone,

take an acting class, do a podcast, write for an hour at a coffee shop. If that, do something that you want, just do something every single day. So I did that. And then when I was on that lyricist lounge, I ran into him at the Playboy Mansion. Okay. And I was like, oh, my God, you know, now look at me, I'm on this. this MTV show, whatever. And he like sent me

the whole next like DVDs stuff. That's cool. So you're Tony Robbins fan back? No, I don't listen to any of that stuff anymore. But I think that stuff is good. It's good. Yeah, providing you don't get involved in a cult. Yeah, yeah, don't get caught. Don't pay monthly like crazy 10K a month subscriptions. Don't rent your state dog. I don't even be worried about like weekends away.

But like if there's something like a book or a podcast you can listen to that's like in the safety of your own home. Yeah. I don't think it could hurt you. Agree. And if you take one little lesson from someone just apply, I do like that. Do something every day to like move the chains forward. Let me ask you this. And then we're going to get your trading secret. You got the juicy scoop podcast. You're a comedian. And then you were a writer. You're also a New York Times bestseller and an actor. So let's call those five revenue streams. How would you rank those five revenue streams when you look back at your professional career? Definitely the podcast is by a long shot. By a long shot. Yeah. Prior to that, it would have been being a staff writer on Chelsea for seven years. The books were profitable. Stand-up, very profitable. For the last, like, seven years of my life,

the stand-up was very profitable. Acting, not really. Okay. Let me ask you the last numbers question. I'm done. We'll get your trading secret if you could share. What is, we already know the minimum. The minimums you did stand-up for free.

What is, like, the best payday you got doing a stand-up scene? Oh, the best, the biggest amount. Well, I did theaters this year. Those were big one-night things. But I did the Irvine Improv five shows in a weekend. And just for the stand-up, that was my biggest check. Five shows in a weekend. Yeah.

That's a five-figure check. Or is that a six-figure check? No, that's five. Nice. That's awesome. But that was really, that was a good weekend. That was a really good weekend. But then I wanted to just do like just one city, you know.

So if you do a theater, you really, you really make sense if you can do two shows in a night. Got it, because then you're doubled in that city. Yeah, that makes sense. Because it's like, if you're selling 1,100 seats, you know, you could sell 1100 seats if you do five shows at a club, that's easy. That's much easier. So sometimes when you see a comedian that's like, hey, guys, I'm ready to go back to the clubs

because I miss being so close to it means. They want more fun. No, no, but it also means they can't sell the theaters anymore. Because the clubs really help bring in the crowd. Interesting. Because there are people that will walk in, even if you're like, you know they're just like let's go see some comedy and they go to the improv if you're at a if you're at a city winery or if you're at a theater i am responsible 100% to sell every single one of the tickets they say there's marketing budget they don't sell they don't sell me any tickets every single person that's there is a hardcore he mcdonnell fan juicy scooper listener don't no one just like goes oh this girl looks funny yeah let's go spend our friday night but that's what's nice about when your headline and you're a comedy club, even if you just are like, I just want to do a club because I want to work on my

act, whatever. You can sell a lot of tickets, but also it'll probably be really full, especially like the early show Saturday. Other people that are going on the shows. Okay, that is so fascinating. The business behind the comedy scene is crazy. Your story is absolutely amazing. Two, three years from now, of all those areas, stand up, podcast, book, writing, acting. Do you have one of those that you really want to, like, put a little more attention to? like in five, 10 years, you're like, that's, that's the place I want to be. Do you want to keep doing what you're doing? I mean, what's crazy is like, I'm really, really satisfied.

Yeah. I'm not like a crazy ego person. Like, I've had two stand-up specials. I've had two books. I always thought, like, I would, like, when I was younger, I was always like, oh, I want to be the mom in a sitcom or whatever, but I don't really feel like, I don't feel like that's in my future and I don't, I'm not like dying for it. Like, it would be really fun if Mike came to me and said, do you want to go to a resort

and be on the next white lotus. Like, fuck, yeah. But I'm not, like, out there, like, trying to write shows and stuff. Because I love the podcast so much, and it's such a big part of my life. And it's so natural and easy for me. It's so much easier than these other things that I tried to do. So that's the other thing. You should do the thing that comes easy to you.

That's a really, really good piece of advice. And, guys, go check out the Juicy Scoop podcast. Start in 2015, 800-plus episodes. 100 million big numbers guy. plus download. It's amazing. Heather, but before you go, you've got to give us a trading secret. It's a piece of advice. It could be something about the industry, something about money management, whatever it could be, but it's your trading secret. No one could learn it from anyone other than you, given your experience, but we need a trading secret from Heather McDonald.

It's not like a real, like, money secret. Okay. Well, I married someone very good with money. So I, okay, I'll try to say, I picked someone that was good at all the things that I'm not good at that I don't like to do. So invest money, very like financially, fiscally responsible, likes to read contracts. He likes to return shit, all that. He likes to return shit. He reads directions. He likes a good sale.

Likes to read directions and like fix them, like read it through. Everything I hate, that's one. But the other thing is sometimes this is my Maya Angela quote, not from Maya, but I'm saying like, if I become famous people, I want people to say this. because I think it's a great life quote. Sometimes the greatest gift someone can give you is treating you so badly that you can cut them out of your life without any guilt.

Where you break up with a friend or something and you then a couple months later you're like, oh my God, my life is so much better without that person, but I would have had so much guilt about cutting them out. Thank God they were such a dick or such a bitch or so awful that I had to cut them out

and now I'm free. Yes, I love that piece of advice because I think that applies to people. I think it applies to relationships and friendships. I also think that applies to people that are like stuck in a shitty work environment. And they're like, I need, I now can leave this job knowing I have to and we'll look back. And I think that's a really good piece of advice. Being fired is the greatest gift you can get. Ever. It was for me and it was for so many people. It's a beautiful, you just don't look back. Right. Or even when Chelsea lately ended because Chelsea, you know, didn't want to do

the show anymore. You know, I would have never quit. I have three kids. I have three kids, private school. I'm on TV. I'm of a woman of a certain age. It was super fun. It was super safe. I would have never had the balls to quit. So sometimes, you know, and then I had to do something else. So, and I remember I said that. I'm like, thank you, because I would have never quit, you know, so. I love it. That's trained secrets with Heather McDonnell. Heather, where can people find if they don't listen or haven't heard of your podcast? Where can I have a podcast? Where can they find you on social media? Where can they find all things, Heather McDonald? So Heather McDonald's on Instagram, TikTok.

Twitter, just at Heather MacDonald. It's M. Little C, capital D. And then Juicy Scoop is, of course, everywhere that you want to listen to a podcast. Also, we do every episode on YouTube. So you can watch it. If you'd prefer to watch it, you can watch it. I love it. Go subscribe to Heather McDonald's YouTube. Go follow on all social handles. Heather McDonald, the comedy scene is a wild business and industry. Thank you so much for sharing and trading all your secrets. Thanks. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell to the Heather McDonald episode. Oh my God, that was unbelievable. I mean, just the ins and outs of the industry behind the scenes of people like Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, the money that

you make, the education system of comedy, like the schooled all the big people like Jennifer Coolich, et cetera, Will Ferrell went to. And the money that was made later in her career, all to find out that podcasting has been the main revenue driver. Now, definitely, well, maybe, I was going to say, maybe not the number one brand driver. but definitely the revenue generator. This has been a really, really cool episode. And even times, like, I'm not used to interviewing a comedian. She's throwing jokes out there and, like, off-sided comments.

I'm like, eek, but, you know, that's how they roll. I got the one, the only, the curious Canadian with me, and I know, I know when we started this episode, we're talking Bachelor talk, that you, David, were chomping at the bit, so let's get right into it. And I'm sure you're going to want to start with Bachelor. Tell me, what are you thinking? One thing we got into, obviously, we got a little into a little Bachelor chat. Now, I don't care really to talk about the ins and outs of it.

What I do care about is there's a theme. And Heather brought it up in her episode, and you're seeing it all over, and people are wondering about the future of the show. And we didn't really get your opinion and your take on it. But I got a hypothetical. If Mike Fleiss came up to you and wanted to make Jason Tardick, the executive producer of the show and the brand, The Bachelor,

what are some of things that you think that you're doing to really turn it around? I would do two things immediately. I'm CEO. The two things I would do is I would really put more emphasis on leads moving forward and really be really, really strategic with who I'm picking as a lead and why. The second thing I would do, one of the reasons that people can go on the show, come off the show and build all these businesses, it's only one reason. It's community. The engagement in the community in the Bachelor Nation since day one has been unbelievable and unlike no other of any other show. They attract to Kendall Jenner's and all the Kardashians. They attract, you know, people like my mom and dad

in Buffalo, New York, A to Z, they got them all. And then they become a community to these people. The problem is they've, I think they've gotten away from the community. They've gotten too focused on bullshit and they haven't gotten focused on building this community back, keeping the alumni, building up the new talent, creating like a Bravo scenario where you're just building this unbelievable community where the people want to be part of it. The people that have gone through this, want to interact. Go look on Twitter. No one's tweeting about it. Go look at the alumni. Go look at the leads. No one's got it in their bio. Like, no one is really participating in the community because we feel like abandoned and so do the people watching. And that's why you're

losing your audience. Community and leads. That's my answer. I love it too. And how about you, David? You're a big bachelor fan. What do you think? Well, I just feel like they could do a better job of, like you said, the community, the consistency. Like, what better would it be? after a bachelor episode instead of two hours make them an hour have an hour after show a half an hour after show

get some of the people who got the most screen time back live to comment about what they were feeling in certain situations get people to resonate and fall in love with the characters God forbid what if there were five

favorites that didn't find love and didn't get picked but they were fan favorites what if you brought the five back the next season and gave them a chance to you think about like marketing right like you think about like Logan Paul, right? Like, you're starting to see him do stuff with UFC. And then they talk about him fighting Patty. And people are going, the whole world's talking about it. You have all these,

like, built up controversies and Bachelor Nation that they just let go die out. Like, think about all the things they could do with, like, X's and drama and things that happen on the internet and bring it into one. Look at every dynasty that's out there. Look at the NFL. Look at the way fans are reacting to players that are currently playing. Players that become coaches and analysts. Players that become Hall of Famers. Like, you know, we know the guys that are not. 90 years old from the NFL. We know the kids that are 12 years old in high school right now considering being recruited. They create this like dynasty through community that you're interested, like you said, to the characters, the people, the drama, what's happening. Look at the NBA draft. It's literally like

it's literally a reality TV show. They have so much value. And you look at like we talked about impressions last week with the Dubai trip. We now know from the PR agency, they made 29 billion impressions in the United States alone. Fucking crazy. But you think about all the people in Bachelor nation, all they're following, all the thing they're doing on their own, imagine you put it all together. Like, what are we doing people? It's stupid. It is crazy. I just, I can't

imagine if real housewise of Salt Lake City and Real Housewives of New York and Summer House, if they all just had brand new cast every year. People would be like, what am I watching? Yeah. Or there was no like, you know, the BravoCon and all the ongoing stuff. I mean, it's just it's crazy. To me, it's, look at Summer

House and Winter House. You know, same cast add a few people in. They're crushing it. They're literally crushing it. It's just ridiculous. It's stupid and it's going to cost them big time, in my opinion. We'll see. Jason 4EP of I would be right there just cheering you on, making changes. Listen, listen, honestly, they should hire me.

Here's another reason. Think about how much fucking money we're all making after the show. And they don't do anything with it. Like, why don't you guys have your own group that are training, like teaching these people, bringing them on, keep the talent within, create your own talent agency. I think about every commercial that's I mean there's so much shit you could do okay I'll take a breather I'm done next topic well I just I do love the passion because people think that like the bachelor alum I spite the franchise like they don't they love them because it's they gave them their their platform like they want to give back but like they you know it is what it is okay spite the franchise because we get we get chewed up we give them everything we got we get a massive return which we're grateful for and then we're spit out and no other franchises are for the most part the success ones don't do that. Why not continue to curate? Why not continue to work? Why abandon? I just don't get the abandoned. And think about if you had all the leads, all the people, all the action involved in

TikTok and Instagram and Twitter last night. No one's involved. No one's fucking, unless they have a podcast where they have to recap, no one's covering it. Okay, I'm done. Yeah, love it. Love it. I love it. That was a fiery little conversation by us. I know. I just got triggered. Something triggered me. so let's flip the script here Heather McDonald our first comedian on were you at all intimidated comedian in the opposite chair like do you think you got to be like witty on edge like get ready for some chirps or what

no when someone is like super like quick and witty I actually find myself I get like more I get more stimulated by the conversation and I get funnier like I'm funnier when like for example low is super quick and witty I'm funnier when I'm low because I'm like focused on that like I'm there the only thing with with comedians a lot of time is they're

great storytellers. They love to talk. Heather's amazing. She's an amazing storyteller. She loves to talk. So I was like, I got to figure out how to get a word in here. That was the biggest issue. Yeah, I think I texted you. I was like, I think you got. She's a great talker. I get it. Great storyteller. But I'm like, I got to get in here. I got to wedge myself in here. I definitely text. Yeah. I was like, I think you only got double digit words in that whole episode. I'm the opposite. I think I'm funnier when I'm with like, like, low key people who aren't expecting me to be funny. And then if I'm around funny people, because everyone thinks that I'm funny. They're like, oh, David's funny too. And I'm sitting in the corner, like,

completely frozen out of my shell. See, if I'm with a bunch of like dumb, dumb dolls, I'm just like, I am so removed that I become unstimulated. I'm just out. I'm like, okay, I'm out. Like, I need the energy and then I'll bring it and keep going. Well, tomato tomato. Heather definitely knows a thing or two about being funny. And, and in all different forms, a writer and actor, obviously stand-up comic, now a very successful podcast, obviously a huge bachelor fan and she was on Katie's episode, kind of hosting a date. A couple of things that I want to touch on with her that I just found really interesting. There were no, you know, curious Canadian acronyms that I needed pronounce. There was no

really finance questions, but there were two questions that I, you know, wanted to get your take on. And one was about the state and the future of stand-up comedy in her eyes. And she said that in 40 years, she doesn't think that stand-up comedy will exist because of young people. And because young people don't have the drive and dedication and determination to do what it takes to be a successful stand-up comic. That kind of blew me away. And I wanted your opinion on that because I just, I never really thought about it. Here's someone who knows the industry inside and out saying this almost as matter of factly. There wasn't a lot of hint or doubt in her statement. So I just wanted to get your take on that. I thought it was really,

really interesting. I mean, my take out is on this is the following. Like when I look at how I have consumed comedians over the last two years, it's, and I love stand-up, but it's rare. It's stand-up. I think I've gone to three or four shows in the last year or two. How I've consumed comedians is TikTok and then whether they have streaming services or on their social media. So I think there's something to be said that stand-up's going to go away. But the problem is you always have to continue to feel comfortable in front of a camera. And even the greats, even the best still to this day, go to hole in the wall comedian shows just to practice their stuff. So I don't think you can get on camera. I don't think you could do it effectively even through social media, even through your

iPhone, until you've done it in front of a crowd. And so I just don't think that it's going to go away. I think it will always be a stepping zone. And I also think that that's also, I just think this is like one of the things is you age. You think that things are going to go away. And I think that's a little ego driven. Like I can't tell you how many leads, like talking about The Bachelor, how many leads I've heard in the last six years come off. Like, oh, yeah, the show will be over next year. The show will be over next year. People think it's going to be over because they're gone. And it's just not the case, I think, for most things. Like, the show goes on. The show will continue. That's the foundation of growing your career in comedy, no matter which venue or circuit, your consumers are

taking it in. And I don't think it goes anywhere because you have to have that stage presence live to do it effectively virtually. I like that take, actually. I like it. I used to watch a show back in the day called Last Comic Standing, which was like a American Idol version of stand-up comedy. And that for the first time, and I was younger, and that was the first time, I was like, wow, these people actually, like, this is a career. This isn't just like you just show up one day and you're funny and you talk to people, like the amount of effort and grind that a stand-up comedian has to do. And it's almost, I feel like it's an industry where you need the street cred.

Like, they won't give you the opportunities. You won't get the respect from the community unless you go through the street cred. Like, there aren't these realities, TV stars that pop into. stand-up comedy that get the credit from these people because they haven't been through the grind. I know Katie from The Bachelorette is going through that right now and she's getting some good gigs and stuff too. But it's like a big-time respect industry, I feel like, too. I mean, it takes massive creative. You heard it from Heather. Just even the writing, the thinking, the delivery is so important and then to do it on stage. Like to watch some of these people that can do

stage work, or crowd work they call it, where they just sit on stage and just go toe to toe, like a Hannah Burner, just pick people out and be funny. That is such a crazy skill set. I also want to say, yeah, you need the street cred, but also look at the upside in this industry. It's a grind. It's tough to get going. But all comedians end up taking over all of TV if you're good.

They get the host roles. They get Jimmy Fallon. Look at every single person that's a massive host. Kevin Hart, it's all comedians. So that's the start and the sky's the limit. That's such a good point. The last thing that I'll end with, These are just a couple takeaways.

I always like to kind of hear these people who have been through, you know, a lot to become really successful and just have some takeaways to put into, you know, my personal life and our listeners. One quote that she said, and I just loved it because it's so plain, it's so simple, but like how often do we really do it? Let the person know you want the job. I thought that that was a really interesting takeaway. Just how simple as it is, but how much do we kind of like dance around, tiptoe around what we actually want in these. scenarios like go up to the person go up to the boss go up to the hiring director go up to the recruiting director tell them that you want the job right tell them go if you want to work for jason find jason go up to them say jason i want to work for you i want to work for trading secrets i want

to work for reward because x y z that's going to blow you blow you away instead of some person being like i love your work and you know i've been following it's like no grab the bull by the horns here unless you are literally the top 1% and the 1% and the 1% and the 1% and the 1% in like everything, like your look, your style, your voice, your height, your everything, unless you are like such an outlying unicorn, no one's going to just come to you and just go hand you things on a silver platter, right? If you want anything in this world, you have to go get it. If you want a job, you have to ask for it. If you want to be somewhere, you have to put it out there. Otherwise, it's just not going to come. If you think that people are going to sit in some big boardroom with all the

doors close and windows shut and then strategize and think about why you're the perfect person for that fit without you advocating for yourself, you better think differently. It's not going to happen. So I like this by Heather. I'm aligned with her. We're in agreement and clearly I'm fired up today, David. I don't know why. Yeah, I love it. Look, it's still, well, it's February now. So if January passed and you just didn't really get to the resolutions or the goals, you're still stuck at the desk and you want to, just listen to Jay. Just rewind that. Hit the 30 second back button. Listen to that. Go get it. Just go get it. 2023s just started. We ain't over yet here.

And ask for it. Go get it and ask for it. You never know what will come. All right, David, we're going to wrap this recap up. This has been an unbelievable episode. It's jam pack. We have Heather MacDonald, another episode of trading secrets you can't afford to miss. Please continue to give us five stars. Give us reviews. Write them. We are listening. We are watching and we will see you next Monday for another episode of Trading Secrets. One, let me tell you. Let me tell you. You can't afford to miss. have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.