Trading Secrets - 93: How much do TV anchors make? CNN’s Chloe Melas Mazza gives wild BTS to the entertainment journalism industry, publishing her grandfather’s memoir, and beyond!

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

This week, Jason and David are joined by CNN entertainment reporter who covers all things entertainment and Hollywood, Chloe Melas Mazza!     Chloe’s reporting ranges from breaking news and exclusive feature interviews to industry analysis of every corner of the entertainment industry. In addition to spending her days researching and investigating news stories around the world, Chloe has more recently taken on a new project in sharing her grandfather’s World War II memoir with the world by writing the forward for the book titled “Luck of the Draw” which comes out next week and will be featured on Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg’s Apple series “Masters of the Air.”   Chloe gives insight on the wide gap in pay in news correspondent jobs, the unspoken pressures of journalism, how she knows she’s in the right industry, what the first step could be to get into journalism, how she went from being a news assistant at CNN to working at Hollywoodlife.com for seven years after realizing she wanted to interview celebrities. Chloe also reveals how a journalist is always on the clock, how having a huge following can help someone bypass someone else in the industry, what kind of correspondent she thought she was going to be, and how she deals with imposter syndrome.    Chloe also gives the inside look to her grandfather’s memoir “Luck of the Draw” that she published with her mother. She details her grandfather’s military career during World War II including being a prisoner of war, how he wrote the book in his seventies, how someone at Tom Hanks’ production company got their hands on a copy of the book when it was first self-published, where the proceeds of the book sales are distributed, and the inspiration that can be pulled from the pages.    Chloe reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!    Be sure to follow the Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram & join the Facebook   Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.   Sponsors: Rocketmoney.com/secrets to cancel your unwanted subscriptions Visit gtmbawomen.com to learn more about Scheller’s MBA programs   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today I am joined by Chloe Malas Maza, an entertainment reporter for CNN who covers all things entertainment and Hollywood for the network across all their platforms. forms. Chloe's reporting ranges from breaking news and exclusive feature interviews to industry analysis of every corner of the entertainment industry. I think she might have dug in some of the corners of Caitlin and I once or twice but all good stuff. In addition to spending her days

researching and investigating news stories around the world, Chloe has more recently taken on a new project and sharing her grandfather's World War II memoir with The World by writing the forward for the book titled Luck of the Draw, which comes out next week and will be featured on Tom Hanks and Stephen Spielberg's Apple series Masters of the Air. Today, we're going to do all things. We're going to dive into the whole idea of the industry of journalism. How much you can make, how you get in the scene. What do an audition process look like in that world?

And then we're going to break into this book that Chloe has literally put so much time, effort, sweat, and blood into Chloe. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm trying secrets. That was so epic. You fired up right now. I'm like, I feel like I did like 10 pushups, right? That was awesome.

I can't even do one pushup. And on top of it, for everyone out there, Money Mafia, not only do we have Chloe, this is the first time ever we have the curious Canadian with us who only does our recaps, but he's here live and he's here live. If I'm giving you the truth, we're going to celebrate his datchelor party. That's a new thing, datchelor party. I think we might have made it up, but I'm here for it. And I'm here for this interview.

It's like I, my wife is due May 2nd for our first child. And so, you know, the boys wanted to make sure that I got one last kick of the can. So after a couple podcast interviews, which we're really looking forward to, we're heading up to Foxwood's casino for 48 hours. Just don't do anything stupid. No, except for gamble away some money. That's all we have planned. Gamble couples.

Don't gamble away your child's college funds. Note to self. Don't do that. Literally, this is the finance podcast. Yeah, exactly. I love it. Well, David, thank you for being here. The curiosity, still stay strong.

whenever you have questions, you just jump in. That's what I'm here for. All right, Chloe, we're going to come in. We're going to come in hot journalism, right? I've always wondered, ever since I was like a kid, I see just like local news, regional news, national news, international news, international news. You see these hosts from Good Morning America to my local Buffalo 7 channel news anchor positions. And I'm just curious, like the discrepancy in pay and the variability from the Buffalo Channel 7 news anchor to, you know, Robin Robbins on Good Morning America. is so massive, but I don't know at all on average what people are paid in this industry.

What are journalists and on-air media coverage individuals paid, would you say? You know, I have thought about this a lot because my parents were like, pursue your passions, right? My brother pursued violin. He actually got a degree in violin. What does that even mean exactly? I know. But he ended up getting like a Ph.D. in music. And me, I just was terrible at math and terrible.

at just school in general, but I could talk and I could write and I like to interview people. So I pursued journalism. I never really thought about salaries, what you make, and had my parents said, you're probably not going to make a lot of money in this industry. I might have tried to have become maybe a lawyer or something else like that. I mean, look, first of all, if you get at the top of your game, even like a local industry, especially in like a top market, like a top tier market, like a New York or Atlanta or a Dallas or in L.A. or something like that. I mean, you could make several hundred thousand dollars or more, right? But if you're talking like the top, top tier of like the Andersons and the Christiana Amampoors or the Robin Roberts, like you said, these people

are making millions of dollars, right? I mean, I don't sign their paychecks, but there's a big, there's a big, like, middle, right? And so if you are a correspondent for a big network, I am not, I I work for a big network, but I'm no famous household name. You do well, but I have a two household income, right? Like my husband, like if I didn't have my husband's salary, it would be very hard to live in New York, have two kids, and, you know, live a comfortable life, you know? There is a wide gap there. Yeah.

And it's hard to make that jump. I don't know really how it's, you know, once you get to. a Robin Roberts level or a Hoda level, right? You don't leave those spots, right? Like you're kind of like tenured in and you're there for like a while. So it's really hard to break in. But you do see people like yourself for people that have big social followings or like Caitlin or something like that.

Sure. Who actually these days networks really want to hire people with big social followings and they could get jobs as correspondence now at news networks or they could have a news type show that really like maybe a decade or so ago, that really wasn't happening. That didn't exist. Now, one thing, I have so many questions just based on what you said, but I even think about like a Hoda and that job, once you get there, you've worked so hard to get there, you're never not working either. Like I think about the times I'm on vacation or maybe I could wake up a little later because my meeting got pushed. Hoda's on there every single day,

every single night for the people that are working full time that are making the millions. How many hours do you they're putting it on a weekly basis. Okay, it's tough to say, right? Someone like a Hoda or a Gail King who's getting to the office at, let's just say, 4 a.m. before they're on the air at 6, right? And the longer you've been doing it, I'm sure that you can cut it a little closer than, you know, someone maybe like myself who needs a little bit more time to like prep and shake the jitters off and I need coffee, right? But even Gail has shown on Instagram, like herself walking into the studio, she has her car and driver and she gets in and she's in her. pajamas and then she goes and she changes and she has producers and segment producers and the show's

kind of laid out for her and she's a pro she's been doing this for for decades same with hoda but then a lot of times you know they're leaving after the show perhaps they have meetings but then you have the whole afternoon in the evening to sort of like have your day okay right because a lot of these morning anchors are going to bed early like seven o'clock so you don't have like a night life you don't have a social life and then you have to like recalibrate for the weekend I mean, if you read my friend Brian Seltor's book, Top of the Morning, which is what they used for Apple TV's The Morning Show, I mean, it's a cutthroat industry. But it's also kind of crazy because nobody's sleeping. So everybody's like kind of like losing their minds, right? That comment right there brings me to the book, one of my favorite. But in terms like 40 hours a week or 60 hours a week, I think that as a journalist, you're sort of like always on call. My friends don't get that, right? Like Priscilla Presley could die at night. And it's 7 o'clock and I'm home making dinner for my kids. And I'm on.

Like that dinner's over. I mean, I have to like respond to emails, get statements, call the police, go on television maybe, right? Beyond at 6 a.m. the next morning but means I need to like leave at three. I've had days where I've worked from 6 a.m. on TV every hour on CNN until like 11 o'clock at night. And then a quick turnaround where I'm up again at 4 a.m. the next day. My brain is just moving 100 miles now.

like 8,000 questions. Okay, you just touched on the whole idea that you're not paid by the hour. You have to, you're not paid by the hour, but you have to stop there for the 7 p.m. You know, there's a huge death. There's something that happens in the news. I'm sort of like a surgeon. I'm like an on-called, unless I have a beeper. Yeah. But what is the, how important is it in your industry that you are there, like, is every second ticking another like dollar sign or accolade you're missing if you're not covering it right on time? It's not dollar signs. It's just that someone's always waiting in the wings. If you're not going to cover that story, somebody else is. Right? And they might

cover it better than you. So you want to own that story. You want to own that beat, right? Like, it might be 7 o'clock. I'm with my kids. Am I allowed to write and say, like, sorry, I'm with my kids. I can't. Sure. But like, there's that sort of like unspoken pressures. You've been working for like over a decade for this. And this is what you want. And you work for a big network. And this is a huge national story. You want to own that. You want to be in front of that. Right. Because there's somebody else along the way who's going to take your spot. And I know that's sort of like always looking over your shoulder, but I think that you could say that for a lot of industries. Obviously, everybody's different. Everybody has their own strengths that they bring to the table.

And, you know, I tell myself, like, well, there's nobody who can do it like I can. Right. But I mean, also, there is probably somebody out there who can do it better than me. But, you know, the big question, actually, that's been going on in my life with my husband and my friends is. And actually, I probably am going to be going to therapy for it. to be honest with you, is it like, I don't know how to turn it off. Yeah. And I have two little kids, and not to get deep right now, but I think that, like, a lot of people, you know, when I was interviewing Jeff Bezos recently, it's like, how do you turn it off?

Like, do you really take your phone and turn it off at dinner? Yeah. And did it, does he? He didn't say. But I don't, I don't. Yeah, I don't. I check my phone on vacation. Caitlin is.

Oh, I get yelled at that too. And I work in a passion industry, too, as a hockey coach. And whether it's recruiting or something like that. And it's like, I was just going to ask, like, has there ever been a situation where you have that anxiety where it's like, I know I should be checking my phone? What if I miss the next story, the next thing that I should be prepped for? But it's date night or you are trying to make a conscious effort. Have you ever missed like a story and opportunity or woken up in the morning? It'd be like, holy shit, how did I miss that?

So no, because I don't know how to turn it off. There was one time that I didn't hear my phone ringing and they called my husband. They woke him up. And then he woke me up. He's like, I forget what it was. was. He was like, oh my God, it was a huge story. He was like, you need to get up. Like, this is a, this is a big story. Like, somebody had died or something. He's like, you need to, you need to go. And I was like, oh my God, I need to, okay, I need to go. And I got dressed and I left. And it was

like four in the morning. This is fascinating to me. It's fascinating to me, too, because one of my favorite books is by Dan Harris, 10% happier. And he talks about the fact that he was utilizing, like massive amount of stimulants to get his big opportunities in this space. He finally gets the big opportunity. He's all coked up and he has a full panic attack live on Good Morning America. And he talks about what he did to make his- Oh, yeah. He talks about- Well, the good thing is I'm not on drugs. I'm just on a ton of coffee. Well, I was going to ask you, this is, this industry, I don't know anything about. Are a lot of your colleagues? Are they? No, I don't think so. But how are you doing it 24. Well, I don't know, but like, all I can do is speak for myself. No, I don't,

I don't think anybody's doing drugs. But what I will say is that I don't put myself first, but this isn't like, oh, play the violin for me right now. Like, feel sorry for me. No, don't feel sorry for me. But, like, I'm sure my boss is listening to this. You're like, Chloe, what's wrong with you? But it's like, I'm afraid because I don't have one particular show to, like, go to the gym or, like, go make a big plan to do something unless I actually, like, take off time. And I'm like, I'm at the gym. I'm not available. because if a story breaks, I can't be sweating on the 35th floor of my building and then do what? Oh, sorry, I can't go on air because I need to shower.

I'm not on a show. I work for a 24-7 news network. So I'm just trying to figure out because, let me explain. So President's Day was working from home, right? And luckily, I was dressed and showered. I looked decent because I had a Zoom that day. And they're like, oh, new Alec Baldwin News. Can you go on?

I'm like, I'm at home. Well, how fast, how soon can you get in? Okay, I'll leave right now. And I got in. I had 10 minutes to park, raced in, couldn't find my badge. They finally got in the building and I, like, made it to the set like three minutes before. It was fine. Have you ever had a situation like that?

Hayed in my makeup. Where you're covering a big, you're covering something that's big, that's breaking, or there's high pressure. And similar to Dan Harris, have you ever had? like a panic live. And if so, if you haven't, I'm curious for people back home that feel that, whether they're a nurse, they're a accountant, they're a teacher. They have that little panic, but it's not at the stage that, you know, that you're on. What advice would you have? Well, so when it comes to the television element of it, like, sure, I always get nervous and I always have adrenaline. And I think that's just exciting. And if that went away, maybe that

would be concerning if that went away. Rob Grunkowski was on a couple weeks ago. He said if his coach has always said before the big games, the gronk, if you're not nervous, you're not ready. Okay. My palms are sweating right now. I know. I'm good.

I get nervous. But I know, the biggest thing is like if I'm sick or I'm worried I'm going to like cough on the air or like have some coughing fit or like I have the flu and I'm worried I'm like throw up on air. Yeah. But no, I mean, I just think that like I'm someone, what's the? the poor preparate, what's the, poor prior planning, PPP. I are, you can't have poor planning.

It's like, piss poor planning. I don't know, my husband says it, but I over prepare. I'm ready. And I have like little tricks and things like that, especially when I'm working from home. We'll give us a trick. My whole computer screen is filled with all my information, all these word documents, everything, so that like a news articles, so that while someone's talking, I have sort of like talking points in front of me, right? And I had a coach at CNN because, yeah, they hired a coach for me at one point because I have a high-pitched voice and they need to like, I'm like, oh, like the news.

And I need to bring it down and be a little bit more serious. So the coach works on your toe. A voice coach for me for a few years. But I still go up octaves, especially when I'm excited. My voice goes up, right? Can you give me right now? Hi, Chloe, give you on the spot. Here we go.

Alec Baldwin today is facing two counts of involuntary manslaughter, but the weapons enhancement charge has been dropped. He still faces upwards of 18 months in prison, but he no longer faces upwards of five years. CNN. I feel like I'm watching CNN right now. I feel like there and you're just going, we're locked in. Oh, what a propped in. But now that gives me concept. Like, I didn't recognize what you meant by like the lower your voice. You have to talk slow. I talk fast. I've always been that way, always been like really excited. But I love breaking news. And that's why I know that I'm in the right industry.

Like back to your question, I will say, because that was a good question, is that like, the reason I know I'm in the right industry, money aside, all of that is that at 10 o'clock at night when I'm in my pajamas and all I want to do is watch Netflix, right, or go watch the last of us. If I see a huge story break, I want to do it. That's all you are. I want to do it. And I can't help myself, but email everyone.

everybody. When we had had a house fire and it was the pandemic and we were moving into our rental house in 2020. And the day that happened, Kobe Bryant died. I don't cover sports. And I saw that the Daily Mail and TMZ had the story from sources and CNN didn't have it. And I think it was a weekend. And I called down to the desk and I was like, this Kobe thing. I don't know if it's real or not, but I know some people who knew Kobe and know him. Do you want me to work on it? They're like, Sure. I'm the one that confirmed it for the network. Okay. How do you, how do you, Dowell, you say, you throw these little nuggets. I can't tell you my sources, but I grew up in Dallas, Texas, down the street from someone who played in the NBA with Kobe.

So I reached out to his daughter. And then she got me to the dad. So to differentiate yourself in this space is having that network, is knowing those sources, a massive way to differentiate? And also just having that drive, like a lot of people just don't want to work. A lot of people just like, they see a story at 10 o'clock at night. And they don't, they pretend to not see it. I want to own it, right? So that's the problem, though. In my job, it's great that I can't turn it off and like I want to do it and I want to be a part of it.

I have FOMO. But then I don't know how to turn it off. So then like self-care, wellness. I have like some immunopro problems, right? Okay. So there's a whole part of me that's like not being focused on. Interesting. All in.

Chloe is an all-in person. I love that. On one thing. Let me ask you this, though, if someone back home is listening and they're wildly intrigued by all the things you're saying about the industry, and they too think, like, you know what, when I see a breaking story, I just instantly stop everything I'm doing and I want to read about it and know more. And they have an interest in getting into this industry. Even someone like myself who has a podcast who's doing like media deals. Yesterday I was filming for a TV show. Yeah, but you'd be a great journalist. You kind of are a journalist with what you're doing. I guess to like a little bit of a certain

extent. It's more educational. But to your point, even though even that comment, I still would have no idea where to start how to break into this industry. There's nothing to do other than just like have a drive. Like if you want to do it, it could be me or you calling and getting that person to talk to you and giving you that piece of news, right? Right now, Susie's in Ohio. She's in Cleveland, Ohio. She's listening to this. Wherever you are, Susie, I'm just making you up. And she says, I want to be a journalist, entertainment, CNN. How does she, what is her? What is her? first step. What does she do? Well, it depends at what point of her life she's at, right? So if she's in college, make sure that you are part of your school's TV station or the school's newspaper

or go get an internship just to know what it's like to work in a newsroom, right? Your first step is no wrong step, whether you want to go work in local news because it's easy, right? Or, you know what, like the old days of, oh, you need to go work in five different local markets before you go work at ABC News is not true. Go work at ABC News. Go ahead, work there. Obviously, digital is like my background. Go work for ABC.com, NBC.com, CNN.com and write whether, but, you know, maybe you know, like, what area you like you like criminal stuff? Do you like politics? Do you like entertainment? Do you mean, do you like health and wellness? Like, what do you want to write about? Start writing about it. Right? And then, you know, if you see a big story, like make a call on it. Yeah. I think what I'm hearing

to in 2023 with all the different forums that are out there and platforms, you could, if you want to do it, start doing it. If you break a story right now without a network behind you, these days, especially with TikTok, TikTok and virality, you can become, Tick-Tac. You can become, you can literally become your own. Yeah, we're old. We sell like my mom. Yeah, these Tick-Tac day. You took it the words out of my mouth because I can do it now. I get a lot of my news, breaking news from TikTok. And there's different, like, whether it's, you know people in the reality TV world that have huge TikTok followings because they're the news source there. So just to your point.

And if you said people are looking to hire networks are looking to hire people with big social followings too. Like that's a way the little Susie can start too. Just thinking of like, I know we're millennials, but the gen X's and Y's and Zs that we're talking about, that's a way to start too. But I feel like that's almost a prerequisite to do while you're at school now too. Like if you're going to Auburn University for journalism, they're probably telling you like, hey, a social.

Or Eagle. Yeah. Or Eagle, build a social following on the side. Like, that's just the world that we live in now. And I think the only short, tell me this, though, the only shortcut to the top then is it having social media following. How do you shortcut this industry? I mean, yeah, it's become a really famous reality star, to be totally honest with you.

And then if you're not too polarizing and you have a massive following, you can do a lot of things. I mean, I think the list goes on and on of all of these people who've been on the Bachelor franchise, right, who have parlayed that into lucrative deals, but not just, you know, side hustles and businesses from wine to, you name it, but like, you know, going and getting, I mean, look, Caitlin went dancing with the stars. I mean, it doesn't get any bigger than that. Yeah. Right. She could go and go to ABC and say, I want to be a correspondent for GMA. And they're going to probably take it really seriously because she has a huge following. She's good

on camera and people like her, right? So that's how she bypasses somebody like me that's been trying to do it for 10 years. Or like I think about Michael Strahan. Michael Strahan, I think about Rachel Lindsay. Rachel Lindsay was a bachel Lindsay. She's now like the head person with Billy Bush and extra TV. So I see, okay, interesting. When you're studying journalism at school, are you specializing in school? Are you just getting your journalism degree and having a passion and going for that. Like, I didn't even know or really think that CNN, I assume it with, like, news and politics.

You obviously cover entertainment events, celebrities. Like, did you know that that was under CNN's umbrella, like before you worked there? Like, how did that come to be? And the second question that is, do you have to niche down? Right. Like, did you have to decide you're going to be an entertainment? Or do you not have to do that?

Didn't know. I did not know. So I thought I was going to be, believe it or not, Christian Amampur in the Middle East and, like, learning Arabic. And that's what I thought. I was like, I'm going to be an international correspondent, be on the front lines of war. I don't know why, but that's just like what I thought when I was like in high school and then in college. Not that I was like some super serious still where I partied in college.

I did not specialize in anything. I'm not really sure what I really learned in the classroom. Everything that I learned was in the school's TV station, how to use a camera, how to put together a news story, getting comfortable on TV. But really the first things I learned was my first job after interning for Stephen Colbert. at the Colbert Report, at Comedy Central for the summer, I got a job at CNN as a news assistant. How did I get that job? I called my neighbor in Atlanta. I opened up the, the, nope, the like the directory. Remember back in the day? You had a directory. And had like your neighbors, you know, and so, or like it would be like exed out because like their number changed, right? But I called Gary

Tuckman, who was like a famous CNN anchor and correspondent. And I left him a voicemail. I was like, you don't know me. I'm your neighbor. And I really need a job. and I want to stay in New York. Can you introduce me to anybody? And I somehow, by the skin of my teeth, got a job as a news assistant among all these Ivy League grads who probably did specialize or know what they wanted to cover or knew that they wanted to do politics, which is why they wanted to work at CNN. I just really knew CNN from growing up in Atlanta, right? And like it almost feels like your hometown, like news network, although it's national, right? But like, you know, Atlanta, CNN, Delta, Coca-Cola. It's like all your besties. And I worked there, and it was 2009. It was the year of Bernie Madoff. It was the year of the banks collapsing. Worst time to get a job. Thank God I got a job.

And I was like, I hate this. It's depressing. And I don't want to cover any of this. So I was like dating a guy who worked at Sirius XM. I won't say his name here, but it was an awful relationship. But we dated for a few years. He went on to like date Stossi. Oh, wow.

Saucy Schroeder, you know her. Of course. And she, again, talk about a reality star who parlayed and very successful and business savvy, what she did. And he had an entertainment show for Cosmo Radio on Sirius XM. And we were dating and I would go in studio and listen to him on the radio. And I was like, I want to interview celebrities and do this. It be so much fun.

So I went and worked for hollywoodlife.com. It had just started. And I worked there for seven years. Wow. I love that you were... And I was doing straight up gossip. Yeah, that's blocking and tackling. You're calling the director.

You're going to Hollywood life. You're doing like VH1. You're taking CNN assistant jobs. You weren't doing what those individuals at the Ivy League and getting right to the top were. Did you ever at any moment feel like, you know, and then you're talking about interviewing Jeff Bezos and all these big people? Do you ever deal with imposter syndrome? And what advice do you have back to Susie in Cleveland, Ohio, who deals with imposter syndrome?

What show is that? We're like, it's like, hi, Susie. Yeah. What's your question? Susie, we need to come on the show. Like Delilah, remember that? Delilah. I don't think Imposter syndrome ever really has gone away, but I just, everybody is just a person.

Everybody's trying as hard as they can. And, you know, I've just kind of, I have a lot of people around me that make me a better writer, that make me a better reporter. I'm still figuring it all out. But, you know, I think that if you, I think that if you, I think. that the things that are most important is that if you work really hard and you try, it sounds really silly, like the things that your parents told you, but I, you know, what are those things that you see it on Instagram, right? And it's like, what are the things that you

need to be successful? It's like, show up on time, dress for the job that you want, be kind, ask questions, be prepared and, you know, be ready to learn, right? So it's like, I don't really care if you have an Ivy League degree or what you think that you've done. I think that, like, Like, I really think the playing field is pretty even. That doesn't, that stuff doesn't define you. No. And I even, you said I overprepared. And also, nobody ever in a job interview has asked me, sorry, listen to this, Susie.

No one's ever asked me my GPA. No one's ever asked you what clubs I was in in college. No one ever asked me where I went to college. It's never come up in any interview in any conversation. No one cares. So like, no, but nobody cares. Yeah. All right.

Here's what I wanted to ask you too. is when you look at this industry and you look at some of the greats, the Anderson Cooper's, the Barbara Walters, RIP, the Diane Sawyers, just some of the people that are the best, the best, the Hall of Fame mantle in this world. What differentiates them from everyone else within this industry? When you look at like skill sets that you want to recreate or you want to copy that they do, what is it that they have? Honestly, first of all, Anderson Cooper, nicest person. I anchored with him for four hours with almost no commercial breaks by accident. Like two years ago when New York City had a COVID concert, like New York City's back and all these celebrities in Central Park. And then like

30 minutes in, it got rained out. But we didn't know if it's rained out or not because they hadn't called it. So he and I happened to be in the studio. So they threw me on the air with him. I'd never met him before. And I was on the air for four hours. And literally like Stephen Colbert, wow, full circle. And all these people were calling in live. It's like some of the greatest television. I've been told if you go on YouTube it, it's wild, and we had the best time. Talk about a pressure cooker. He was a nice person. He shook my hand afterwards. He was like, good job. Not many people would have been able to like do what you just did. And that felt really good. What do I need to work on and what's really hard to do? It's the art of the interview.

Huh. Because you, especially in your world, what I find, the interview is hard. But on podcasting, it's you got time, you got effort. We can edit this. We can cut it up. In the TV world, what I don't like, especially when I'm not doing anything live, is you have five seconds. You have seven seconds. You will get cut off. They're in your ear like, all right, wrap it up, wrap it up. So getting a good clip in a 30-second time period is close to impossible. But I will, yes, so that's true.

But also, like Jeff Bezos, when I sat down with him, his first interview in four years, I did it a few months ago at his home in Washington, D.C., 40,000 square feet. The amount of, you know, security to get into his home, they taped my phone's camera, like, you know, all this stuff. right, you know, and I'm sitting there, it's, I don't know how anybody couldn't get nervous, okay? How could you not? I don't know how you couldn't. And I walked away from that being like, I don't ever want to be that rich. Not that I'm going to have that as an option. Yeah. It's like, that's too much. I just want like one billion. Yes. Yeah. But it's the art of the

interview. It's sitting there, keeping your thoughts together. And how do you go from like the first question, get to your goals? Keep them interested. And like, it's like, you're not, If you can write out 10 questions for someone, you're probably not going to go from 1 to 10. You're going to go from here. Make sure to be like listening to them to ask a follow-up question, but know where you want to go next. If they don't want to answer that question, try to like decide in the moment, like, do you push on it? Do you just go to the next question? It's really stressful.

So like the Christian Amampors, the Anderson Coopers, the Gail Kings, the Diane Sawyers, I would love to sit down with them, Oprah and ask them, how, like, what is the art of the interview for you? How do you decide how to take it where you want to go? There's something about, I think, maybe the emotional intelligence and the energy, because as you know, whether it's Jeff Bezos or it's Courtney Kardashian, it's the energy and it's the person. And they then have to change their entire energy to get the answers for these very tough questions, but then present in a way that these people feel comfortable. Well, and also, it might be a question that, like, Jeff Bezos or someone wants to answer, but his teen problem might not. Right. So you also have to remember that, like, you're sitting there. and, like, there's people behind the cameras watching you.

It's like your producer, your, you know, their assistants, their team, their management are there. And they're like, don't say it. Stop. Don't fall for the trap. You know, right? So, like, that's hard. And you have to, like, block it all out, right? So it's, yeah, interviews are stressful.

Okay. I just love this industry. I get an interview for another hour on it. I'm going to wrap with this question. Dave, I'll give you one more because I've already said last question a couple of times. But I got to ask this one. Chloe, you go to your annual review, and they're starting to determine what is success for Chloe in the past year to determine a raise or your next step.

In an annual basis, what do you have to do to meet expectations in the world of their eyes? How do they measure that? That's subjective. Don't miss a story. Break news. So are you sitting with CNN at your annual review, giving them a resume of all the news stories you broke? Do I write down all the stuff? Yeah.

You have to. You have to advocate for yourself. I don't know if everybody does that, but I go in with a list of my greatest hits. Interesting. Yeah. So that's what your annual view is like. Yeah. You're going over what you're breaking.

Yes. Yes, I am. And what's the next move for Chloe? I am, you know, want to stay in journalism. Yeah. I have, I have, you know, being a mom now, I have like a lot of ideas, you know, for other things. You know, I'm 36. I feel like a relic.

Maybe because I'm tired because I don't sleep. you'll see when you have kids you'll see he's got one coming that's what we're doing the dachshare party enjoy it well you can there's no more like watching you're watching Netflix for like 10 minutes exactly a baby cry so there we go actually I hear baby cry babies cry in TV shows and then my heart like stops because I think it's like mine and then I'm like oh good it's not mine it's it's show that it's like triggers you with the transparency right now of of tick tech and social media with journalism. Just people having a lot of backlash with media. Has that impacted? Just your outlook on if you want to be in the industry or if you want to grow within it

or how do you push back to those individuals? I think what's interesting for me is growing up in the South and having it's at least for a while, maybe less so now, but it still felt for a while so polarized, so divided on so many issues. It's like, you know, conservative media. versus liberal media, nobody trusts anybody. So I think that now people get their news from so many different places. It's not just like the old school days where it's like you read one paper or you watch one television show or one news anchor. People are like flipping constantly. So at least in my world, a lot of people are getting news from like a lot of different places. It's hard. There's a lot of disinformation out there. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Well, we talked about what's next for you and we know

what is next this week. We don't know what's next in a couple years from now, but we'll all be watching. And this week, you have finally got this book across the finish line. Luck of the draw. This has been a hard hustling project of yours. Your grandfather wrote this book. You guys self-published it, and it was you and your mother that did this. This is a whole new career journey for you. So what can you tell us about luck of the draw? So this, this, This has been years in the making. Thank you for bringing it up. So my grandfather was a prisoner of war for almost two years in World War II.

Same prison camp is the Great Escape. He was a navigator of a B-17. So before there was GPS, there were guys in the front with maps and tools and got to keep their cool while there's like literally fire-fights all around you. And my grandfather entered the war after Pearl Harbor. up in Atlanta, was going to school at Emory University, and, you know, he felt, he knew he was either going to be drafted or he would try to enlist himself. And he did. He enlisted, he wanted to be a pilot, but he didn't have great eyesight. So it became a navigator. There was a real need

for navigators. He flew 21 missions out of England. 25 is the required. He was just a few missions short of finishing and being able to go home. On his 21st mission, he was shot down over Munster, Germany, captured by the Nazis and thrown into Stahlog, Luft 3, where the Great Escape happened. And he was there when the Great Escape happened. You don't know what the great escape was. It was immortalized in a movie starring Steve McQueen about these guys who tunneled out, these British troops, and Hitler ordered them once they were captured to be killed. And it was like a violation of the Geneva Convention. My grandfather, too, tried to tunnel out, and luckily wasn't successful. And so my mom and I and our family, you know, Grandpa had written

this book 20 years ago. He wrote it like six years before he died. He wrote it in 2001, and he published it just for the family. And it was just something he wanted to do a project after retirement. And he started it in his late 70s. And he worked on it for like seven, eight years. A crazy amount of research. My grandfather ended up being a lawyer. And he actually worked with planes his whole life doing contracts for the royal family in Saudi Arabia for Lockheed Martin, had this like crazy life. But he wrote this book and here it is. So my mom and I decided that we wanted to publish it with like a big time publisher. So we partnered with St. Martin's Press. And so it's coming out. What advice do you think if he was looking at his great grandkids and

he could give one piece of advice seeing what the world looked like today? What piece of advice do you think he'd give him? I mean, my grandfather was the calmest, most even-tempered person. He never raised his voice. He was the person. He had four kids. He had lots of grandkids, has lots of grandkids and now great grandkids. And, you know, nothing ever bothered him. I think that, like, his probably, I, you know, can't ask him, but we assume in the family, because we talk about it now, that being a prisoner of war and all these insane experiences that he went through and being shot at and watching people die all around him, kind of put life into perspective. So I think that, like, easier said than done, but try to put things into perspective because, like, it could always be worse.

And that's what I always try to remind myself, isn't there saying that like if there was a jar, didn't Warren Buffett say it or somebody said it, like if you had to like put your hand in a jar and pick out like three marbles with three different like life options for you, would you like go in there and do that? I'm butchering this, but like would you do that or would you like keep your own life? And I think most of us would probably keep our own lives and not gamble to have something else. Yeah, luck of the draw. I think that's a great trading secret from your grandfather. Now I transition to your trading secret. So what was one piece of advice from you, Chloe, whether it is aligned with the book, Luck of the Draw, or it's just your entire career track? What is

one trading secret you would give to our listeners, the Money Mafia, and specifically, probably Susie and Cleveland Ohio? I have it. Yes. You're dancing over there. I've had it. Stephen Colbert told me. Isn't that, I can just name drop Stephen Colbert right there. Your network is. Look at that now. I don't think even knows me. It's like Jeff Bezos. We're going to have a segment with Anderson. Meanwhile, you like run into them and you're like, oh yeah, Chloe.

And they're like, who? What? Who is she? Oh, right. That girl. The harder I work, the luckier I get. Hell to the yeah. I work so hard.

And then not all doors, but doors open. I have never been somebody who just gets a phone call. It's like, hey, great. opportunity. Do you want this? It's got to pay you a lot of money or hey, you want to, you know, not work as hard and, you know, what is the saying? Like, you know, work smarter, not harder. I haven't really figured that out yet. I think that's cool. I'd like to aspire to that and come back and tell you that that's what my mantra is. But no, it's really the harder I work, the luckier I get. Go for it. Go do it. Try. Keep going. Pick yourself up. Middle finger to the

haters like just keep going you'll figure it out you know but just I thought that that was really profound and that is stuck with me since I was 22 the harder you work the luck you get that also I just I'm looking at the title of the book luck of the draw there's a lot of connection there look at that and to think about what you where you've come from and what you've done and how you've done it and working on your voice the depths of the south of Auburn all the way to the big city of New York Chloe it's amazing I could do like four-part series I'm so curious of your industry. Before I wrap up, David, Curious Canadian? No. Your grandfather must be smiling down that you've done this. And something about books brings this group together from your book

launch and the CNN interview you did when we met Chloe the first time to this. It's been a pleasure. It's great. And Jason, promise me that when you are an anchor of some big newscast, you'll have me on. Deal, deal. And when I publish my second book, you've got to have me on. I will. I've already committed. We got a deal. Where can people buy luck of the draw. Everywhere books are sold. Amazon, Barnes & Noble Target. You can also go to luckof the draw.us and it has all the info there. Luckof the draw.us. Guys, we are going to buy five books. We are going to give them away to five listeners. What you got to do? Just give us a review what you thought of this episode. Give us five stars. Put your Instagram handle. Five books will be purchased.

We will give them away to the first five people that do it. And Chloe, where can people find you when they want to search you and learn more from you and have more questions for you. Thank you. That was so sweet. Of course. I loved for that like surprise at the end.

Yeah. You're like Oprah. You get a card. You get a card. Help me get more followers on Instagram. At Chloe Malas. All right. Follow me there.

At Chloe Malas. What we would like from you guys as a review, what Chloe would like is a follower. Books are going to be given out. Chloe, thank you so much for being on this episode of Traying Secrets. Thank you.

Ding, ding, ding! We are closing in the bell with the one the only. David Ardoin, The Curious Canadian on the Chloe podcast, all things, CNN, journalist. What a wild, wild, wild industry. So many moving parts of that. And guys, don't forget about her book. Please give us five stars. Put your Instagram handle.

We have five copies. Evan, can you confirm you bought five copies? Five copies purchased. You guys heard it. Five copies purchased. And we are giving them away. So, David, you're with me. We are here live in Foxwood's casino right after we did that.

We're doing some brand work with Foxwood. So, David, what do you got for me? Don't forget to follow Chloe. She wants the followers. So you got to make sure that you go follow Chloe. I'm going to say she deserves it. She's earned it. She's putting the time.

She is really impressive. Really impressive. You heard from her first that she can't put her work aside. So go follower. I think she's earned it. Plus, you heard that voice. I mean, that instant buddy. I would say that she has podcast energy.

Your feet stink. Well, let's cut that out. Let's cut that out. It's been a long day under the hot lights of the podcast room. I'm kicked off of them at Foxwoods. Before we get into Chloe, actually, it's a good point. This is your first live showing under the, you know, the live lights. I think a lot of people have misconceptions of what it looks like on TV or what it looks like in, you know, a video clip,

but it's a lot different when you're actually under the gun. It is. Time flies by. But you're staring down that barrel of the camera and it gets a little nervous. I guess the lights are hot. Let's just put it that way. Ring lights, they should have come with a warning on them,

a little caution sign. But I will say... Buddy, those aren't ring lights. Those are like professional lighting. I will say, I am the first of chirp, Jay. I got to listen. I'm the recap guy.

I get it. I stay in my lane. I go to listen and I'm always like, Jay, really? Another 52 minute episode. I got to listen through this. When you're in it, it's like 30 minutes goes by like

30 seconds. Like, you're just going, going, going. So it was great to, to podcast and recap, obviously now with Chloe. She's an incredible energy and talent. I think she should have her own podcast in the space. But, yeah, we learned a lot about a new industry that, you know, we really hadn't talked about before. Yeah, I think so. I think one of the things you said, too, I got to, I got to jump on this, 52 minutes. I got to think money mafia here. Either that or I get, can you stop texting, Evan? Evan's texting, always moving 100 miles an hour. You'll probably hear some more dings in the back. while he is because that's just how the way he rolls. But David, I got to thank Money Mafia because for you while you say 52 minutes, what the hell, we have one of these strongest engaged audiences

of all podcasts. We have, we're pushing almost, almost 80% of listeners come through the end to the recap. We have long podcasts and that's above industry average. And you know who we have to thank for that? The Curious Canadian. And I will say this. The only reason that we know that is because I'm still here. I'm still here. Two season, two seasons. Two seasons. in almost, you know, 52 times two, which is too much math for me to do at Foxwood's Casino right now. Almost got that 100th episode with KB coming up. So we have you guys the thing for me existing. Let's just put that out there. I have you guys to think for me existing. Now, let's get into Chloe. Let's dive in. Go. I just want to get your take on, you know,

when we got off camera, we started really diving in a little more numbers and get a little more in the industry. She started out at less than than what you guys at home are going to think. Her first job in the journalist correspondent industry was $30,000. $30,000. And she's climbed the ladder to drum roll. Six-figure salary. I'll say that.

I don't know, you know, I don't know what she wanted us to share or not share based on that conversation after. So considering we weren't recording, what I'm going to say is six-figure salary. It's not mid-six figures. it's not super low six figures and you guys can do the math in between the point is I don't know when you heard let's just say this Dave

when you heard the number are you surprised or not? The number that she started at or what she makes currently? I was surprised. I was like I know New York City is super expensive and everything but I was like damn

she undersold her and it and where she's adding kind of the realm of like the correspondent journalist industry compared to like some of the big hitters but I was I would leave my job for her job. Yeah, but also let's put this in perspective, right?

CNN, national media coverage, New York City, one of the biggest cities in the world. This is your average individual that's doing anchor work or starting up in like a small regional city is not making anything to those numbers. I see them in Rochester all the time. They got the newest, there's the new, new story. They got their AirPods in. It's 11 p.m. on a Wednesday. saying they're sitting outside the hospital waiting for new news on this. I'm like, that person's making scraps. It's a struggle. And I think part of the reason getting into the industry is such a

struggle, like she said, if my husband was, if we didn't have dual incomes, if he wasn't working what he was, we couldn't live the lifestyle that we did. We couldn't live in New York City doing what we're doing. And the reason is, is because I think there's just so, and this is like a deeper conversation, but in our entire society, there's so much demand for being on a screen, for being on TV. Everybody wants to do it. Think about this, guys, back home and girls. You're looking at a Jumbotron. People go nuts.

They go absolutely nuts for maybe a hockey arena that has 15,000 people. They get on the Jumbotron, their entire day and night is made. Now, if you think about TV, so many people want to be on it. So because there's such a great demand and such a massive supply of people that want to do it, that's simple pricing terms massive supply massive demand lower pricing if you're going to talk jumbo tron i can't help but talk about the pamela anderson documentary where she got notice on the jumbo tron so isn't that kind of crazy kind of crazy too in my own Canadian home province bc bc lines it's kind of that's like pretty nuts right pretty nuts i mean that's crazy

but what i will say is you alluded to i don't want to go too deep i'm i'm going to challenge you and go a little deeper okay ready for this let's go Here's what the, a burning question that I wanted to ask her on the pot. I was like, you know what, David? You're the recap guy? You've been doing this for almost two years? Let's save this for the recap. Let's say some juice.

Give us some juices. The juices are flowing. Here's what she said. Literally. She said, I wanted to follow a passion career. My parents wanted me to follow a passion career. And here I am at a journalist at the biggest company, the biggest news network in the country, if not North America, if not the world.

okay and she's following her dream passion which is what we encourage our listeners to do but then she also said i can't find time to put myself first i'm so passionate about what i do that i actually can't find time in my own time to put myself first so that hit me kind of hard i'm passionate about my job you're a passionate about your job and we do struggle to find time to put ourselves first in terms of our daily life because of our jobs. We talk all the time about the corporate world and it's, you know, we kind of, you know, we do talk down on it in some aspects. But the good part about the corporate world is you get to check in, check out. You don't bring that shit home with you. You get to live your life. So I really wanted to bring it down a

little deeper in your take. How did you feel about that or, you know, really, because you're bringing I'm bringing it up for the first time. How do you feel about the sacrifice of putting you first because you're in a passion first industry? I think it's such a fascinating dichotomy, right? Because you bring... I don't know that word. Let me dumb it down here with dichotomy.

We're going to pump the breaks here. It's been a great recap so far, but we're going to pump the breaks. I don't have any 101s for the listeners at home from the episode, but I'm going to bring our 101 for the, listeners in the recap dichotomy, you're just going to spit that out. The way I view it in the context I'm using is that it's such a, it's such a wild breaking point, right? It's such a, it's a teeter totter. It's a back and forth. It's a, it's just a conflicting discussion, right? There's, there's just back and forth of this interesting

subject that you're bringing up because the dichotomy is the passion pursuit. versus the nine to five. And there enters, the biggest dichotomy is you enter your passion, you figure it out, you have your roadmap that you are on, and you've achieved everything you want. But then you've become so passionate about what you're doing that there's this like work life balance. There's issues maybe at home because you can't put it down. It's constant anxiety because you're so dedicated to it.

That's a dichotomy of like, what is it, are you pursuing something? that actually you're so interested in that it's actually having a negative impact on all areas of your life. And that's a position we've never talked about on this show. Yeah. And I think you think about some of the greats, some of the people that have achieved the massive success in the worlds and the individuals we've spoke

to. All them found their passion. All them found their lane. All them found their road. Some of them extremely smart. Some of them lucky and capitalized off it. All different angles of it. but I would be willing to bet that a lot of them struggle like myself and like you with hockey and like Evan hammering away right now is when is enough enough I think with Chloe specifically and this probably relates to all of us I don't think it really mattered she's a celebrity and you know events correspondent for CNN she would have been the same way that she is now no matter what industry she was in

because she's just a stone cold hustler. That's how she's wired she is, yeah. And, you know, for those of you who are the voice of the viewer, who I am, she is an electric personality, an electric energy. The second time that I was able to meet her, I'm really excited to be in the room with her. But, you know, it was just a really awesome podcast to be a part of. But, you know, she is a captive of her own energy and success and hustler mindset.

Did you see her? She didn't struggle at all in this interview because she was just, a pro. Now, I'm not even saying the word struggle, but there was a hesitation when I did say, we know the book is next. You got a lot of things going on, but what's next for Chloe? Yeah. She struggled with that. She did. And I think the problem is though is because it's this massive decision. Like, when is enough do I go do A, B, and C? Or do I continue to do what I love and grow, knowing that it has an impact? Yeah, I was really curious to see that because she brought her quick answer was

it had her kids involved. Being the mother involved. It had her career involved. It's like, you know, she's putting more thought to this than she kind of like lets to the vest and maybe she doesn't want her superior to listen to this. CNN, if you're executives, you're living in the trading secrets. Good on you. Best podcast out there.

Give Chloe a raise. Give Chloe a raise. Promote her up to the top. Exactly. Exactly. So, but it's, you know, one thing that I would like to put out there is when you, you know, being in the room with those people. It doesn't matter who we're interviewing. They're all going through the same shit. We're all going to do the same shit at a different level too. So it was just interesting

to see, like you said, how short she was about like that. It's interesting. Yeah, because like grass isn't always greener, right? Obviously, there's a lot of happiness with the careers that we've all decided to pursue and we found our passion. But with that, you know, come some challenges. And you heard that from Chloe. I loved her openness. I loved her honesty. I love everything. about Chloe. It's unbelievable what she's done. She's a professional at heart. Just A to Z, very, very, very impressive guests of Trading Secrets. Guys, luck of the draw. We have five copies to give away. Go give us five stars. Put your ad symbol. Evan ordered him. We will be giving them away this week. We'll reach out to you via the Trading Secrets podcast, Instagram. If you

don't follow us, make sure you follow us. And we got five to give away. David, before I wrap, anything else? I would just like to say what she did for her grandfather and terms of his memory and his legacy. My grandfather also was part and participated in World War II fighting against Germany and Nazi as part of the Ukraine. I wish I had that opportunity. So to have that kind of stimulating conversation with her and then pivot to the book, which is why we were there and promote that for her, I urge you all to take a kind of take a step out of our realities and our busy life to consider reading a story like that. And really, putting yourself in their shoes and hopefully taking some intangibles with that to your

to your own life because what a sacrifice that generation made for us and what we're able to do today it's such that is such a great way to close it david and when she was telling the story i was going instantly back to the memories of everything i saw for my grandfather while he was alive purple heart he was in the korean war he was shot and his commander was told to leave him but he went back to go get him and when she told that story of about telling her kids, you wouldn't be here without a hero like that. It instantly reminded me of Grand Petit. And so we are all so fortunate that we have this luxury,

that we can listen to a podcast, that we can pursue the education and dreams that we want because of that generation. And her trading secret about perspective is everything that we need to think about every day. When we could be more grateful, it's endless happiness that comes with it. Ardoin. Thank you for being live. Thank you for being on the recap. Thank you for being you. And thank you for another episode, Money Mafia, of tuning in and hopefully one you couldn't afford to miss. We will see you next week. Let me tell you, we got the bank loaded up. We got Tyler Cameron. We got Caitlin Bristol. We got Damon John coming. It is endless. And we couldn't

be here out with the Money Mafia. So continue to give us five stars. We got books to give away. and we will see you next week for another episode. That you can't afford to miss. Woo! for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.