Trading Secrets - 99: DWTS fan favorite, Val Chmerkovskiy on BTS of the DWTS profession, international competition and the grind of the dancing industry!

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

This week, Jason is joined by professional dancer, choreographer, and Dancing with the Stars legend, Val Chmerkovskiy!     Val has accomplished all that he could in the world of competitive dance with 14x US National Champion, 2x World Dance Champion. Val quickly rose to stardom after joining the show’s cast in 2011. Since his TV debut, the dance champion continues to be a fan favorite, both on and off the dance floor. Val continues to expand his talents as a dancer, choreographer, and in addition to co-founding Dance With Me Studios, one of the nation’s leading Latin and Ballroom Dance Studios where he also lends his experience as the venue’s art director. He has also developed Dance with Me Juniors, a program designed to help keep kids healthy, focused, and active in their communities.    Val gives insight to why he isn’t worried about the trophies, the different career paths within the dance industry, how social media is a new platform for dancers to be discovered, how his parents exposed him to the best dancers in the competitive dance world, and keeping optimism with every partner he has. Val also reveals the first time he competed against Mark Ballas, how his first season on DWTS taught him to expand his understanding of the dance world, the impact the pandemic has had on him, how Dancing with the Stars did after going to Disney Plus, and wanting to see his peers succeed. Does he plan to go back to competitive dancing beyond Dancing with the Stars? How did he do his first season of Dancing with the Stars? How many dance studios does he have? Does he talk to his peers about what they make?    Val reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!   Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.   Sponsors: It’s golf. It’s not golf. It’s Topgolf. Download the app, book a bay and Come Play Around.   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.  

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined by professional dancer, choreographer, in Dancing with the Star's legend, Val Smirkovsky. No. Is that doing okay or no? We'll keep it. Shmarkovsky.

Schmierkowski. Yeah. Oh, we're keeping this whole thing in because we're doing this right. One more time for the people. Let's hear. Vail. Val Schmerkofsky. Schmerkowski. Okay, we got it. There you go. We practiced that before, guys. We've given you a little behind the scenes. Have accomplished all that he could in the world of competitive dance. 14-time U.S. national champion, two-time world dance champion. Vail quickly rose to start him after joining the show's cast in 2011. Since his TV debut, the dance champion continues to be a fan favorite both on and off the dance floor. Vail continues to expand his talents as a dancer, choreographer,

in addition to co-founding Dance With Me Studios, one of the nation's leading Latin and ballroom dance studios, where he also lends his experience as the venue's art director. He has also developed Dance With Me juniors, a program designed to help keep kids healthy, focused and active in their communities. Today, we're going to discuss all things, the world of professional dance, balancing the life on dancing with the stars and his family and

how he has turned his fame into various other lucrative business endeavors. Val, thank you so for being here. We're excited to have that. God, that was a mouthful. That was an introduction right there. Dude, I really appreciate that. Does that, you feel good after that? Yeah, I want to stand up straight after that. I mean, but these accomplishments are pretty wild, right? Like, you've participated in 18 season, first place in season 20 and season 23. You've come in second place in season 2016 and just this past season, third place in season 19, in season 22, season 24. When you hear this stuff, because sometimes on a day of day basis, you're just grinding. When you start to like hear all these numbers, U.S. national champion, all this stuff,

did you ever anticipate that you would have accomplished from a resume standpoint in the world to dance what you've accomplished at your age? Yeah. So this was always the vision. I mean, it wasn't a clear vision just because there was never a blueprint. It's a very unique thing that I was able to build a life. that I've built through the vehicle of competitive ballroom dancing. Like, what is that?

You know what I mean? And why am I doing that? So it's a very kind of niche thing. And that's why I preach my love for this country and the opportunity that it gave me and my family to realize my potential in the most unique kind of way there was. And a lot of luck involved along the way as well. So looking back at those things,

I'm grateful for all of those times and those opportunities. to accomplish those things. That's amazing. Some people don't even have a chance to accomplish things, you know, for whatever reason. So I guess the feeling is more gratitude. And also, you know, it's like my trophies. They ask like Dancing with the Stars trophies, where do you keep them? I don't even, one, I don't even know where it is, to be honest.

And then the other one is like in a guest room somewhere. Interesting. You know, because for me, it's less about celebrating those wins and more about celebrating the level and the quality that I had to be as a performer, as a dancer, as a student, whatever it is that accomplishment was, I had to be a certain quality to have accomplished that. And I'm proud of that because there's a lot of really great dancers out there. So if I was able to be first in that competition, that means, you know, I brought something to the table. Yeah, there's so many people we have that have this niche skill set that come on. I would

think that they're motivated by the rewards, by the accolades, or by the money, and almost all the people that have exceeded this, like, outlying expectation aren't. And I mean, it's probably just a sexy thing to say as well. You know, you don't want to be like, that's all I ever want it. That's true. Well, some people come on and they're like, all I give a shit about is money and that is it. Well, the other thing, too, about the money is I heard those Dancing with the Stars, those trophies are like 10 to 15K, I heard. Have you ever heard that? Yeah, I heard they cost like 10 to 15K each. We're going to have to audit that.

Yeah, you're going to audit that. Let me know what you hear. I'm going to do a ton more research, and the recap, we're going to address it. One thing you talked about is that this career is not a blueprint. If someone is listening to this and they are a dancer, or someone is listening to this who is a parent of a child who is a dancer, what does that professional outlook look like? Obviously, you've done it. But for the majority that say, I'm going to be a professional dancer, what does that look like?

What career options are there? First of all, it's a life of a lot of risk. love. I love to dance. It's not just a vehicle for me to make money. It's a vehicle for me to realize my potential, at least in this arena, which is dance and performance. It's a dream job. Like this season, you know, speaking of Gabby and this season and the ride that we had, making it all the way, like there were times that I couldn't believe that I'm getting paid for this. You know, I should be paying people to be able to collaborate with a really talented young woman to be able to get it on camera and in the process create content that, you know,

makes people happy at home all around the world. And then every Monday I have the most talented production team. I get to enjoy that. Like not a lot of dancers or performers or anybody really get a chance to live that type of work week, you know, for which I get really handsomely compensated as well. You know, so it's truly a dream job that I appreciate regardless of Regardless of all those things, because there's, you know, the iceberg below this tip, like this is, I wouldn't say that this is the tipping point for my career, but it's really up there. But underneath all of that is jobs I did for free, you know, dancing in restaurants when I was like 12, 13 years old for like 20 bucks. You know, teaching like 14 hours a day, every day, you know, for 20 bucks an hour.

Like there's a huge grind that led up to this privilege that I enjoy now being on dancing with the stuff. stars yeah so be it sounds like being on dancing stars like you said it's like kind of the pinnacle of being a professional dancer but behind that the way that you can monetize in dancing is is doing some type of performances i would imagine like touring with an artist to something yeah and then like landing like a broadway gig are those kind of like the main ways that if you really want to actually make it in this without having the luxury and opportunity to be at the top those are the ways you you would drive income? Those are some of the major

kind of revenue streams and platforms you can take your dance profession into. I try to capitalize on all of those lanes. Now there's a new lane which is disrupting all businesses, which is social media. You could have a dancer

that wasn't able to make those things work. That is now making a living, you know, producing content for this device. and is realizing his dance, his or her dance potential, and capitalizing out. Yeah, I mean, the whole TikTok scene with the dancing and some of these people taking off, and then you see the dollars behind it. Yeah, what's unique is we had Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers and, like, the famous dancers.

You know, obviously dance has always been big in American entertainment. Like when you said you could also dance for an artist. That is a venue. Dancing with the Stars is so unique that it also, you know, we are the dancer and the artist. So when we go on tour, like Caitlin went on tour, she hosted a dance tour that is also very unique. So it's a great kind of time for dance,

and I'm proud of that. But again, my journey throughout wasn't me, like, I want to be a dancer. It starts with, like, I want to do whatever it takes to be successful in this country because I'm watching my parents work their butt off, you know, to give me these opportunities. So I was very aware at a very young age how much my dance lesson cost and what my parents had to give up to pay that. And so in that class, that already drove me to produce effort and go places that maybe other kids weren't willing to go.

I've talked about it a little on this podcast. So I grew up playing hockey, right? And I was talking about these days hockey sticks are like three, four hundred bucks. And I kind of got behind the cost of that sport and how crazy it is. One thing I have no idea about is if someone does have a kid that's getting a dance, what are those price points? Like to pay for lessons and to really be trained well, like what is the cost of getting into dance if you're younger? Yeah, it's expensive. It's tennis, golf, you know?

There are costumes you've got to pay for. There's shoes and entry fees and, you know, a lot of major competitions are in Europe. That was the big kind of tipping point for my careers and my parents being immigrants. in Brooklyn without really any money, found money to send me to Germany for the German Open Championship, where instead of like three couples that I was competing against here in America, there's like 600 couples from all over Europe, all over the world competing for this really prestigious trophy. And so I was exposed to the best in the world. That allowed me to go back home and train not for the for the challenge around me, but the challenge that I, you know,

I saw overseas again now social media changes that in a sense that you can see some of the best around the world from sitting sitting at home yeah back then you had to really make the effort to go and see what that looks like and what age was that that they sent you out 12 12 years old yeah going out to germany to compete at that level yeah wow 11 years old was the first time i competed against mark ballast get out at the u.s open yeah and he was representing England. He was this British champion little kid, you know, and I was this kid from Brooklyn with my, you know, partner, and we met at the U.S. Open. And who won that battle? With your 14 U.S. titles, I had to imagine you won that. I did. And he was second, and he came in as the

British, which is the most prestigious competition we have in the world. He had just won that. Interesting. It was like the Wimbledon of Barum dancing. So now, fast forward to when he won dancing with the stars and we were second. That was a really... Full circle, ball in. We have many circles like that. Of the pros that are on dancing with the stars, how many of them did you either compete

or know about them as professional dancers before you... Many. Many. Ardom, so in regards to Gayland, Autumn is someone that I had known since I was like 18, competed again since I was like 19.

Okay, interesting. Which is a long time ago. Okay, so 2011. Gleb, everybody, like really a lot, a lot of kids, yeah. That's pretty cool. So it's a small circle. It's a very small circle. Of the people who are like at the premier level, whether you're coming from across the seas, you're in the States, you guys kind of know each other.

Yeah. And have an idea of like who the who is in this up and coming. I know Artem before he even moved to the States type or Gleb. Yeah. I've competed from Hong Kong. I've known him before he even moved to the United States. That is fascinating. It's from the circuit of dance.

Like I said, it's a very small world, and the fact that we had this opportunity that there was a reality show based around forum dancers being paired up with celebrities, that changed kind of a lot of lives in the dance business. Yeah. Do you think dancing with the stars, like the producers and the production and the people that are running the show, are they almost looking at who are the next 10, 12, 14, 16 year old, like elites across the country? Or do you think they're like, eh, those guys will cross the bridge when they get here? Yeah, I don't think they reach as far back as 14. It's hard to bet on a show in Hollywood. You know, like, we got X amount of seasons. Good.

Let's worry about those seasons. Let's get ridden out. Let's take the next one. But I send a lot of, you know, because when the show is over, I'm still in the dance space. There are a lot of dancers that I come across that I'm like, yo, dancing with the stars, check her out or check him out. They would be amazing. Or, you know, a couple from Europe that's moving to the States. You know, and be like, yo, they'd be great on Dancing with the Stars.

You know, I'm not stingy with my part on the show. I want Dancing with the Stars to be successful with or without me. Yeah. You know, I think it's an important show for dance as a whole. Yeah, I love that. How did Dancing with Stars find you? 2011, what was that journey like? So I have an older brother, Max.

Yep. And he joined the show Season 2, way before I joined. Right. And, you know, he kind of really quickly made a name. for himself how did he get found he was the top professional dancer in the United States wow yeah and they asked him for season one and he turned it down how come we are proud committed athletes and artists to to our craft and for us to sell out and move to babysit celebrities on a reality show in Hollywood

was just not something that was interesting to us at all interesting you know That's the mentality. Yeah. It's so fascinating to hear that versus like, of course, your appreciation today. Today you're like, I feel like I'm at the highest point and how that's changed. Yeah, of course. And I mean, yeah, it's growth. That's growth.

At that moment, that's how we felt. That's how he felt. And, you know, and then season one, it was kind of like a pilot season. It was only six episodes. It aired and it, you know, got the ratings that it got, A Vander Holyfield. Did the Foxshot? people have never seen this type of you know it's it was novelty television in a way

but also wrapped up in a kind of beautiful like human experience that people just love to see and it exploded you know and season two thankfully they approached them again and again he said no and this time we were all like bro you got to go you know give it a shot yeah give it a shot and if it's not for you then you could always come back and continue to do what you do and he was 25 and he moved out and that's it it kind of changed his life our life in the process. When you saw him go on the show and have success with it, at that point for you,

was it like always a target? I got to get on dancing with the stars? Not really still, you know? Because again, the pride... So it still was there, though. That pride that even though the show was like season three, season four, season five, it's now getting established.

It's now getting millions of views. It's now compensating dancers in a way that they've never been compensated before. It's now putting them on the, front of People magazine and you still at this point and I'm still like bro I'm not even interested in that that's a beautiful thing that I can enjoy vicariously through my brother interesting you know and cool and I flew out I performed actually a few times because you know it's a new space and now it's discovery

and now there's a new new guy you know season two is this you know max this you know what is this accent and what is this ego and then they did a piece on him and they realized he has a kids dance studio born dance studio in New Jersey He has a younger brother, Val, who's, you know, a champion. And then there's like 15-year-old, 14, 12-year-old kids, you know, and they did a story on us. And we came out to the show and we performed. And it kind of blew people's mind because they also saw ballroom dancing on smaller bodies,

and smaller kids. They're like, oh, my God, kids can do this. And, you know, it kind of exposed me to the show and the show to me. And I guess that was the first recruitment, I think the show did. Got it. And a few years later, yeah, the few years later, Derek joined the show, Mark joined the show, Julianio. Now these are more my peers, you know, these are now my brother's peers. Now these are my peers. And so now, yes, I am looking, you know, and now I'm seeing that. And also through

my journey, I just, I just was focused on like, you know, the money and the success is not worth me breaking my word to myself that I made myself 10 years prior, you know, as a 15-year-old kid or a 10-year-old kid, I wanted to accomplish certain level of competitive ballroom dancing. I wanted to win this title, this title, and I just wasn't there yet at that time. What titles had you not won that you wanted to before you accepted Dancing with Stars? Well, I wanted to make the top three in Blackpool, British, you know, in the adult category, on the 35, you know, which is kind of like the big category. That's like this is like the Super Bowl of dance.

Okay, this is the main stage. And did you get close to that? Yeah, I did. I was in the top three in my last time competing in Blackpool, yeah. But I was already checked out. And part of that, again, this being a business podcast and finance and all that stuff, you know, I turned 25, which was around the time my brother went on the show. I was one of the best couples in the world, you know.

and I did not I wasn't making any money you know I was like yo this is dope but you know I'm too old for this passion project like what's the difference you know hobby and a profession it's a paycheck you know yeah and it's and I hate to say because money isn't the pillar of of the passion but the passion got to get compensated right I want to buy my mom a gift you know I want to like because again dance for a long time was a vehicle out of the hood, out of, you know, a financially challenging situation, the ability to give back to my parents, you know, I had to be successful regardless of whether it was in dance or music or start my own business or do whatever I have to do. You know, dance just kind

of took off and I was like, I love this. Yeah. But at 25, I made a decision that I'm like, there's an opportunity for me to be on a stage in front of millions of people and be compensated. you know, it's not like, don't get me wrong, the answer to the Starz Pros are not like, you know, it's raining money on them, especially in those seasons. No, not even close. Not even close to television sitcom money like that at all. But relative to the dancer, the average dancer,

it was really good, yeah. When you come in top three in one of, and what is it called one more time, the black? The British Open, Blackpool. It's in Blackpool, England. Okay. So Blackpool, England. the British Open. You come in top three, which is like the one. Do you get 250 pounds?

You knew the question before I asked it. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, I just spent $5,000 on my partner's dress. We as a couple. Because as a couple, we're a team, you know. And you get $250,000. 400 bucks, 250 pounds. And still to this day, 2022, it's still like that. Yes. I probably say yes. How? The entry fee is like 45 pounds or 80 pounds. How do you justify? I mean, like, how does? Well, you build credibility. Okay. It's like internship forever. It's the internship that doesn't happen.

Yeah, it's like because you build, you know, you get the result. Now I'm top three in the world and now dance studios around the world invite me to come teach. And so, you know, I sacrificed my entire life to be an elite, you know, to be elite at a craft. You know, I put in not 10,000 hours. I put 30,000 hours as a dancer not to teach dance to make a living. You know what I'm saying? I love teaching dance. Sure.

But I love dancing first, you know. And LeBron James didn't pursue basketball to one day coach basketball. Or to train. Because when you said LeBron, the first person I was thinking about, I was like Wayne Gretzky, right? Wayne Gretzky didn't become the top first person to start like training, you know, kids and athletes. He became the first to be the best in the world. Right, right. And you could do both.

And I love doing both. Don't get me wrong. I love teaching. I mean, it's such a vehicle for me to, I mean, truly use my gifts in a way. But, you know, outside of that, I, it's hard for somebody to pursue something that doesn't, you know, that then they have to go and work. That's what I'm saying. And dance lessons are like, you're on your feet in dance shoes for an hour. It's labor.

Like, that's tough. Yeah, manual labor, you know, it's beautiful labor. But I can't do this for 40 years. That's hard. That's tough. That's tough. So your brother, season one, decline. Season two, almost decline, then goes on.

Yeah. You go on in 2011 and you already talked about this balancing act of making the decision. Yeah. At any point did you decline before you had made the decision to go in 2011 or the first time they came to you? Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. No. I came out here. Now I'm building relationships with production and people and, you know. And so there's dialogue. And they're like, so, you know, when are you going to join us type of conversation? I'm like just, I need a couple more years, you know? Yeah. And so then I made that decision and it was, you know, like I said, I'm really grateful. I reached out and I said, I would love to be a part if you'd have me. I'm ready, you know, in a way.

Did the LeBron sit down? I want to take my talents to Hollywood. Bring me down late? All right. You decide to do it in 2011. Since then, we fast forward as 2023. Have ever you in this cycle of being on Dance with the Stars thought about maybe doing something else or going back to your competing days?

Has there been no looking back since you took this career option? I mean, so I had the same perspective. Like, if I don't like it, I'm going to be out. You know, I could always come back. I'm still at an age where I could come back to competing at a high level. But yeah, I joined the show and I had so much bravado. I'm like, oh, man, I'm on top of my game right now. I'm going to come in and, like, destroy all of these guys.

Because, you know, they've been dancing on television shows. It's not the same, you know? We're training, like, athletes every day. We're hungry. We're starving. We're not rich. We're not living in sunny California. You know, that's the grind that sometimes you need. You need to go through that. So I came through so ready, and I got eliminated second. I probably should have been eliminated first. I was terrible. Who was your partner at first?

Her name is Elizabethan Canales. Okay. Yeah, she was a model, Italian lady. I mean, it wasn't her. I mean, I just was a rook, you know. and it was a it was a great ego check it was so important for me and and I'm glad that I had that kind of experience as a competitor and also as a student I wasn't like too proud to be like okay okay let me just figure this out and that first season I I danced all the extra dances I was like put me in anything everything you know and I watched other pros on the show Derek Mark Max don't you know everybody on the show and I took notes you know and I'm like okay this

works. Okay, listen, I got to broaden my range, right? I can't just be an elite ballroom dancer. On this show, I got to, I got to understand what musical theater is. I want to, I need to understand, like, what contemporary and hip-hop commercial appeal is. You know, what is it going to, because I'm also now campaigning for votes for the first time. Oh, yeah. You know, I got to, I got to say the right thing or make sure I don't say the wrong thing. But at the same time, I got to be authentic, you know, and so all of these things, now I'm learning. There's never like a sit-down with a my parents have no experience in this I don't you know like I said I'm I'm learning through my brother's experience in this but yeah for the first time I'm

I'm competing in a different space and I'm using those same tools that I've done my entire life in this sphere and you know here I am one of the things I think about when I look at like the career and the professional dancers over the dancing with the stars is that yes my perception which is probably wrong yes you guys have a ton of impact of working on that craft, in the choreography, in the art behind it. That's huge. But also there's some uncontrollables. Like I think about who you get partnered with. Oh, yeah. Like, are they capable to what you can do? How much of it do you think is really controllable by the professional dancer and all the things that you worked on to help

your craft? You know, it's like a race and some get a bike, some get a horse, some get a, you know, a unicycle some get a Ferrari and you're like damn we're all in the same race you know so then you got to put some lights on this whole you know you got to dress it up and as a pro you try to you know there are many different ways to give yourself a fighting chance I look at every season I have that

you know delusional optimism with any partner you're the best partner and I don't want any other partner this season because you're my partner you know that's the type of energy I have to all my partners, regardless of whether I'm delusional and we're getting eliminated fifth or we're going all the way. I approach every season and every partnership that way. I think that lesson right there, though, it doesn't matter what your career is or what you're doing.

That word, delusional optimism is really important because in a world like today where everyone just complains and whines about their circumstance or their boss or maybe their colleague, you're in that situation those are the cards you're dealt once you're dealt those cards stop complaining right and have delusional optimism that is a huge huge piece of advice I mean some people call it faith I like to call it delusional optimism I love it we had I'm almost certain this wasn't the case with you at all but we had Lindsey Arnold on she did talk a little bit about how when she was brought on she was brought on so early that she actually got promoted to head dancer and then she got demoted

and she took like the background dancer has has anything Anything like that ever happened in your career with Dancing with the Stars where there's been a shift or a potential demotion or a movement that you're like, it's made a big impact on the professional side? I mean, yeah, recently, like, yeah, I joined the show and then I had a couple of seasons. Back then it was two seasons a year. So there were, you know, my, there was a few seasons that were rough, the first two. Third season, I made the final, you know, fourth season I made the final.

I meant semi quarter than final one final one one semi final you know like I was on a wrong and then the last four years I like this last season was the first time I made the semifinals in five years wow yeah something like that interesting you know we went to one season a year you know then yeah so that was a moment where I had to be like oh okay cool like You know, I felt like I had a great run. The show's been really great to me. And, you know, listen, these are the cars I'm dealt. Let's go.

Cool. Then another season, these are the cool. Then it's like a third season. Then obviously I'm also looking at me and where I'm dropping the ball. You know, how can I improve? Maybe I'm, you know, but you've seen the show. You've done, you know, you kind of, through Caitlin, you've done the show. Yeah.

You can see that, you know, who's going where. You can kind of feel it. Usually when the cards are dealt, I feel like after one week, you have a pretty good idea. You're like, oh, okay, cool. And it just, those, you know, I just kept getting four-sevons, four-seven, four-seven, you know. But I'm like, I, we could make it straight out of this. Sure. You know?

And I didn't for four years. And so this last season, man, in those four years, it was a lot of growth. Did I take a step back that they demote me? No, but in my life, were a lot of demotions in my life. that maybe didn't reveal themselves, you know, in public. But personal troubles, you know, other business challenges. We have 14 dance studios during the pandemic. We were looking at just like every other brick and mortar business owner.

Like we're looking at 20 years of life of my father's effort, of hundreds of people that worked for this company, my friends who have poured their, you know, life into this company. you know it potentially can can go away yeah so the pandemic was a huge personal challenge and that was kind of like in the middle of a lot of growth that i did in my life and so now having the season that i just had with gabby my appreciate like you know chills because now my ability to appreciate my craft my ability to appreciate my opportunity this job my other opportunities this podcast Everything I do now has a very post-COVID kind of very different perspective on it.

Like, I'm grateful that I'm healthy enough to still perform on the level that I'm performing. So. Yeah. Do you, I think one of the challenges you just faced that you talked about for four years is like being dealt a tough hand. People at work, I think, that are listening to this, they get dealt those tough hands. And there's subjectivity that goes into their success, not objective output. And then they have to do a couple things like you did. You have to kind of self-reflect. You have to adjust. You have to make changes.

But one of the things you have to do, in my opinion, is I think you have to actually vocalize, hey, boss, I don't think you're giving me a fair shot. You're not sending me to the right deals. You're not interested. What can you help me out? Did you have to do anything like that where you had to go have conversations with people to say, is there something I could do better? Was there anything that you did through that, that you could give people advice back home

to do if they feel like they're stuck like you? you felt you were for four years. Yeah, yeah, I did. You know, there's a difference between, like, complaining or being bitter and just having a conversation, just having transparency with somebody that you love working with for a long time, you know, whether he's your boss or your peer or whatever,

you have been both collaborating in the same space for a while. Have a conversation and say, I feel like, you know, my approach was this, wasn't, you're not giving me this, you're not giving me that, My approach was like, yo, let me, you're giving me so many things, you know, you bring me on the show, you compensate me really well, pull me in, you know, let me, let me serve this project. I feel like I could do more for this company, for this project, for this, you know, show, for whatever. And I just want to do that.

That's it. I think I can't, you know, and I can't do it if you don't kind of allow me the space or the opportunity. opportunity to do so. I would love for you to meet me in the middle somehow. And do you think like that type of delivery and commentary definitely helped out? I think so. That's awesome. Because there's also a track record. Like I don't have those conversations. Yeah. Unless I feel it genuinely. And then we do. And they've always met me in the middle. And then I feel a very strong responsibility to deliver. And now they have somebody that will look at me.

You know what I'm saying? A year ago, I was kind of, I was hardbroken with my experience on the show. Not because of the show, but just my experience has been a long time since I felt, like I said, the success that I felt the season. Yeah. You know, and then a year later, I couldn't champion the show more. Interesting. You know, and all that is was a conversation that we had, and it wasn't a complaint,

it wasn't anything. It was just people coming together and say, like, how can I be better for this project? because I want to, you know. That's pretty, I think stepping into conflict, too, right? Like you felt, because there's articles out there, whether it's true or not, that like a year ago or whatever, you were thinking about leaving the show. And just whatever that is, true or false,

I think the idea here is step into conflict, like talk about these things that you're back there because look at the change in 12 months. Biggest champion, you're not leaving the show. You crushed it. You're back at it. Well, yeah, and also it's like that's a headline that has this kind of negative connotation.

Sometimes, you know, the show has nothing to, do with how I feel. You know, that's the other things. Like we're very quick, you know, we're dealt certain cars and then we're very quick to point fingers and find like, why did I get these cars because of this person? It's nobody's fault, you know? But I'm allowed to be disappointed with my situation without having to like pinpoint exactly who's responsible.

Maybe it's just a situation. I just got to grind it out. Yep, I love that. All right, negotiation tips. You start with the show, 2011, 2022, your value increases with the show, there's more eyes on the show. What strategies do you negotiate or do you go through to negotiate for yourself to be compensated better? I look at obviously, like I look at the market value, you know, like I'm a big fan of sports. You know, I see salaries rise and I'm like, bam, it's not like they're hitting the ball harder.

The truth is that just more people are watching them hit the ball. you know and so like it's a per eyeball basis so to speak you know then i also obviously look at the value that i bring and and what i want to bring i know what i bring besides what you see on tv i know what kind of peer and teammate i am regardless of what project if you and i go into a podcast together i know that i want to you know you'll get my undivided commitment yeah and for that I would love, I would feel happy with that. I wouldn't even think about it for X, Y, Z, you know. But it's really, like, I try not to, you know, how much you see, oh, okay, I want that.

Do you talk to the other dancers about what you guys make? I don't. You know, I don't. You know, I, like I said, because we, I grew up in a business environment with the dance studios, I kind of have certain ethical boundaries in terms of conversation. even with the show. Like, I have really dear relationships with a lot of people

who are in a position of authority over me. Yeah. I try to keep a very professional distance. You know, I don't abuse that love, you know, to, I know how to divide and what. And I think that also goes a long way. Totally. But, yeah, I forgot what the question was.

It was about just like establishing your new, you're negotiating for something. I'm not delusional, you know. You know, I'm not trying to, everything that I do, I'm not someone's employee and I'm never somebody's boss. Yep. You know, we are two people on a team that have two different roles. Okay. Interesting.

Well, I think that's, I think the idea of understanding your value and making sure that you're expressing it the right way with your employer, whoever it is, professionally, right, is huge. You've got to be an advocate for yourself. And also, you've got to prove yourself first with all due respect, you know, for free sometimes. Oh, interesting. less. Yeah, yeah. You know, and if you have, cool. You know, like, we have a project right now with my brother that we're kind of developing. And, you know, budgets and all of that, it's important to think about, you know,

but I'm more interested in having equity in and in the future of this project rather than being compensated for, like, you know, right now. And, you know, it's a conversation. Why is that? Why would you like equity over compensation? I agree with that strategy. Because it has more longevity and it becomes. a passive income, you know, rather than, like, my labor is what my labor costs, and I want

to get compensated for that, and that's it. Sometimes it just depends on the scenario. It also depends on the project. If I believe in the future of the project, I'm willing to work for free. I like that. Okay. Another thing I wanted to ask you about is in people's workplace, they'll be competitors that will try and recruit them over. There are other shows out there. Like, so you think you can dance. There's a lot of different competitive dancing shows. Have you ever thought about taking a career shift into like a different show? I mean, I think, therefore I am, you know? I think all the time. But not, I've never even been close to wanting to, you know, it's like I'm still enjoying the NBA. I wouldn't want to, you know. Go to the new league. Yeah. Or the

European league. Or the European league, you know, and it's very competitive and, you know, living in Barcelona is probably very sexy. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm, you know, I, I love where I'm at. And, And as long as I can continue to serve the project at the highest level, you know, I'd love to be a part of the show. Very cool. I'm a big numbers guy. I'm fascinated. But the other thing is that, you know, and you said these other shows, like, so you think you dance, competitive shows. They're not, I don't look at them as competitive shows.

Okay. You know, the same way, I don't look at myself as, you know, just a dancer on Dancing with the Stars. You know, I answered to the Space of Dance, you know, and Dancing with the Stars is a big part of that. But my studios are a big part of that. So you think you could dance is a big part of that as well as far as fostering a lot of new talent, a lot of which ended up on dancing with the stars. Artem, Alan, Jenna Johnson, my wife, Lindsay Arnold, they all started from so you think you could dance. I think things can coexist, you know, the more companies, the better.

The more shows, the better. That's a good point. You know, a lot of times people think that dancers on the show have rivalries. or animosity, you know, I want to see Derek succeed. I want to see, not just because we're friends, but because as an incredible artist and someone that came from this project and is a ballroom dancer and identifies as someone from our field. I want to see him succeed.

Because if he succeeds, then the world is looking at, oh, okay, I'm interested in that. Yeah, he succeeds the art of dance and the profession of dance. So you think you can dance succeeds. It's not a competition. It's good for the athleticism and the art. and the beauty of dance. Okay. I think that's a really good perspective. One thing I wanted to ask about is I'm a big like ratings guy. I love bachelors on whatever. I'll always go in like what are the

ratings? What are the ratings? I was blown away at the fact that they went Disney Plus only this season. And I was thinking just because of the demographic, right? It's a it's a higher age demographic that watches Dancing with the Stars. I think I read it was like 55% or no 65% of people over 55 watch Dancing with the Stars. But the percentage of that group that's actually subscribed to Disney Plus is like less than 20%. For anybody listening, I will definitely

fact check this because I have the stat at home and I'll put it in the recap. That said, did you have any thoughts on Disney Plus only and do you know anything about like if it worked or didn't work? Oh, I, you know, it's all hearsay. I didn't have that right conversation with whoever is in charge at Disney Plus.

Yeah. but yeah I think we paid off on their investment I think it worked yeah it worked yeah it worked that's what I had heard yeah we had we and I think it worked beyond even expectation I think we've not just doubled expectation I think it was like really good that's what I had heard that the Disney Plus move ended up exceeding every expectation that was put in place yeah interesting did that impact social media obviously since you get on the show changes a lot and it helped your career I'm sure it's helped monetization, clearly it helps your influence, and it impacts your overall position

in the art of dance. Did social media, like following it all, change this season being on dancing on Disney Plus only as opposed to network TV, or did you not see much change? I didn't feel it on social media. Gotcha. No. What I felt was, I mean, it's all in the same family, so nothing's going to be taken part. We went from ABC to Disney. sure you know it's old disney but i i definitely felt more relative you know like we had billboards again you know i haven't seen a dancing with the stars billboard in this town like for 10 years

interesting there was a billboard a few you know the marketing kind of budget you you could feel expanded the quality every you know there was more effort in in pushing the show and it really i mean there was a few small changes this season that paid huge dividends and created huge ripple effects throughout the show, which I think translated in the lens and therefore translated in the numbers. Big numbers guy. So I started the podcast, a number I've never heard about dancing with the stars. No, you already said it.

I'm not coming at you too hard here. I know, I know there's contractual things you can't talk about, so I won't push in those directions. But you had said, budget, $500,000 for the performance. I've never heard that. You said earlier on the same. Yeah. you're telling me for one of your dances 500,000?

Absolute ridiculous estimate. I have no idea. Okay. It might be 100,000. But even 100,000. I don't think, like, you'd be surprised. You know, confetti, just the action of that confetti. Like the, you know, sometimes you dance at Paso, they have the fire things.

Even the CO2s, they call them. Like that could be 10 grand. And they got to block that the day before. And they got to, you know, do it a couple of times. couple of times. So I, yeah. I mean, it's not, I don't think I'm that far off when you think about everything that goes into just one performance. We also, Caitlin and I watching, said we thought the production value this season was greater than it's been in quite some time. As a pro, did you feel that too? I felt like it, but to be fair, you know, Caitlin did it in 2020,

which is really unfortunate because it was a COVID season and it was very limited. The fact that it was even happening was a huge accomplishment. Out of context, you know, like that's important to mention. There was no crowd in the room, which is a huge reason why you probably felt like, wow, this production feels so much bigger. Well, there was 300 people in the room. Yeah. You know, that makes a difference, I think.

Yeah. And then there was no commercials, which was a huge obstacle for the hands, the stage management, you know. So they, they're the real, their, you know, their effort was crazy this season. Because usually the commercial allows the production to breathe for a second, regroup here they had to be really creative. But it kept the show flow. I mean, I thought that this season was one of the best seasons out of the 18 seasons that I've been on the show.

Interesting. Yeah, it was absolutely incredible to watch from afar. I mean, absolutely impressive. When you look at Dance With the Stars, all your business ventures, like Dance With Me Studios, Social Media, which of those, in an annual basis is like creating the biggest business opportunity for Val when it comes to dollars? They all are part of this little universe that I have, you know, and they all complement each other. My presence on Dancing with the Stars isn't the nucleus of the Dance with Me studio

business, but it's a huge marketing opportunity, it's a huge branding, you know, push and credibility that I bring to the studios by being on Dancing with the Stars, currently, consistently. You know, it's still a big deal. But those studios provide an opportunity to host events and have incredible growth potential and the opportunity to potentially franchise and expand and grow. And then, yeah, I mean, all of these are vehicles that complement one another. I try not to, you know, I try to have several streams. A friend of your covenant.

Do you have it is not because you are an entrepreneur and you have all these other moving parts. Do you have any other businesses that you're working on or forecasting down the road to generate another stream? I have a dance app that I'm a partner in, Dancing Co. Which is online dance lessons as well. So during COVID we kind of, you know, all pivoted and got excited about that platform. So it's an app, which is awesome. We have over 200 plus classes. Cool.

But yeah, I like to develop. live performances and live experiences. And I guess I'm looking forward towards expanding that into an experience that includes, you know, potentially food and liquor and more of an immersive kind of project that lives with me and that lives without me. And, you know, I like to develop in that space. Very cool. That could be awesome. When you do fundraising for that, you let us know. We'll put it out there. See if there's any investors. out there. All right, we got to wrap up. We got to get your trading secret. Val, it's amazing kind of where you've gone and where you've come from. The trading secrets actually you get to

pick. You don't even get drilled. So it's got to be a trading secret. Someone can learn from you about money management. It could be career navigation. It could be just like life inspiration, something that they can't get anywhere, but hear it directly from Val and your experiences. So the money mafia, they love the trading secrets, what you leave us with. What type of trading secret could you give our listeners? I mean, in 2020, too with the amount of trading secrets that is out there that is a that's a tough ass yeah it's crazy you know this environment it's it challenges your confidence and challenges you know your belief in yourself you know like sitting here i i don't feel comfort you know

super comfortable with offering you know these you know and claiming it as the secret that that you can only get from me. You know, my secret is I don't take, I don't take things personally, especially in the business space, you know, especially when it comes to money. I know it's hard because a lot of times you build relationships and effort is being exhausted. You really sacrifice in your life some of these partnerships and some of these ventures, but, you know, soaking it for a minute and then keep it moving. I like that. Keep it moving. My chairs, just so you guys know, before we started. I have a trading secret from Vail that I took. And you had talked a little bit about just the relationship management of your partner and that like it's like an arranged marriage

and that you guys were like, you had discussions like therapy, like almost like it was therapy where you said, hey, these are things that are like lines in the sand for me. Don't do this. Don't do this. Please do this. I'll do this. I'll do this. You tell me your feelings. And as a result of that, it builds chemistry connection that allows you to work better. I think people should back home listening to should think about, do you have those conversations with like your boss, your colleagues, even in your relationship? Because I think when you are in a position where you're in your business partners, if you're not having those conversations, it's going to impact everything. It's going to impact the perception of people. It's going to impact your performance. It's going to impact

how you move as a team. And just hearing the fact that you do that every single season with your partner, that's my trading secret. Like it doesn't matter, relationship, business partner, colleague boss, you have to have those type of in-depth conversations with these people so that you could be the best team. Yeah. That's my trading secret for now. Thanks man. And, you know, maybe that's it.

You have a better perspective, you know, kind of seeing it from the side. But really, yeah, that is the secret. You know, I don't know any secrets. But I will give you my undivided, unconditional, you know, effort and time, you are my priority. And I literally say that to them, you know. And all I want is you to reciprocate that. That's it for three months. And then you can do whatever you want and I'll do it.

And, you know, we can maintain our friendship, whatever. But we'll reconvene then. Yeah. Let's do this. You know, because you have potential and I, you know, we can do this. While we're here, let's go all right. Yeah. Let's be the best team.

I, and that's why I love teaching. I love preaching. You know, I love camaraderie. I love working together. I love collaborating. I love giving people credit. You know, in this town especially, it's like such a big deal to credit somebody. It's like this controversy.

Like, I don't see why I can't credit everybody because sharing is the wealth. You know, the ability, I want to make a lot of money, not because I want to have a lot of money, but because I want to be able to share a lot of money with people and with, you know, causes and things like that. You know? That's another one.

Sharing is the wealth. You said you didn't have a trading secret. We just pulled four or five out. All right, Val, dance with me studios, your app, your social media, going on. People want to learn more about it. Where can they find that stuff? Valentin at Instagram.com. All right.

Is that Instagram? No. On Instagram, that was such a, like, boomer thing. Like, what was that? It's like the Facebook. Oh, my God. Damn, that's me. But yeah, Valentin on Instagram. Why the hell? Does the dancing pro with 18 million trophies not have a TikTok? I do. I do. Valor Valenti. Oh, it's not the same. You don't have the same handle. No, I never took care of that. Interesting. And that's why when you kept saying social media business, I'm like, I'm the worst on social media.

I'm still living in like 2012 where this was like a journal. Well, we talk about it often on this show, social media monetization. So I'm going to challenge you. Get more active because you can make a whole lot of damn money. Let's go. And then we'll bring some deals to you. How about that? Perfect.

Val, thank you so much for being on this episode of Trading Secrets. Thank you, man. we are closing in the bell to the Val Smirkovsky episode. What a legend in the world of dancing with the stars. His track record both professionally and from the entertainment perspective and is a Dancing with the Stars pro is absolutely legendary. If there ever is a Hall of Fame of Dancing with the Stars, we all know Val will be in it. Here we have the curious Canadian to do the recap with me. Let me know what he's thinking. Where his head's going? And I think we have a lot to cover here. So David, thanks for coming on for the

recap as per usual. Take it away. What are you thinking, brother? I'm just shocked that you went round two on his last name. That's very rare of you to take a stab at a last name that you may have struggled with originally. So I'm proud of you. Look at you grow up right before our eyes. Well, that's interesting. I don't know if I've grown up because I'm still debating whether I'm going to re-record the intro or not. So if you guys are still here with us and you have listened to the intro and I said his name right, that means I re-recorded it. If you heard the part where I screwed up, I screwed up his last name. So one of the two will be played having made the decision yet. I love it. I love it. No, that was great. I mean, what I'm sure from your

perspective and an intimidating presence, I mean, he's like the hottest guy ever. And he's got, you know, such a calm nature to his voice. And it was a really, really interesting episode that I thought I love the whole dance world, the dance era. I grew up around dance. My sister was in dance. One thing I'll say, and I think he kind of made it very clear. And I think you'll agree with this. Can you think of a, of a bigger grind of a career or a sport than the world of dance? like the upbringing and the notoriety, and it's a very expensive sport and, like, you know, the competitions that he does

just out of respect for the dance community and where he's at, it just seems like the ultimate, like you have to be all and fully dedicated to be a dancer. Oh, my God. I mean, such a grind. And like he said, in that world, when you look at professional dancers, there are so many of them,

and they are all so good, committing the entirety of their life to it, right? think about people like think about what you guys do at home whatever your job is how many years have you committed to that right dale has committed literally since the day he could walk until now to this career so i mean i'm totally with you and it's a tough place it's a tough world to make it man it's a tough world to make it he's got a couple of those mirabal trophies under his belt um you can tell how grateful he is for the show um but how he realizes that the show is just a vehicle for him um you know he clearly doesn't make life-changing money off the show, but it's vaulted him for the

opportunity to kind of build a brand around himself. He made a little comment there about the Mirabal Trophy. I know you probably have one sitting in your house there. Do you know how much that thing costs? I mean, I'll tell you this. I can't give you exact facts, but I heard some rumblings it is in that $10,000 range. And I'll tell you this, man, just the case they give you, just the case they give you to travel. I've seen that with you. That's got to be $500. I mean, this thing is so intense, this travel case. So, yeah, I'm thinking that 10K mark is probably right around on par. We might have to take it to a pawn shop or something because I tried to, I tried to fact check your numbers there.

And I spent a good 15 minutes on your Google machine trying to find out the cost. And I couldn't find the cost for more than like 50 bucks for that trophy. Let me ask you this. Caitlin puts it on auction. and the winner gets it and the money goes to charity. I'm not saying she's doing this. But if she does, you don't think that thing goes for over $10,000? So here's the discrepancy that I want to talk about.

I did my own research on top of the research for this to see other trophies and sports to see what the cost is. But the cost and the value don't always add up. So I think that makes sense. I think the cost of the mirror ball, let's say it was $50 and Caitlin did that. I think that it would go for $15,000. I'll give you an example. The Super Bowl trophy, the Lombardi Trophy, they make it brand new every year, $50,000. Do you know who makes it?

Who makes it? Tiffany. Tiffany and Coe makes the Super Bowl, the NBA trophy, and the World Series trophy. What curious Canadian drop-in-fits-I had no idea. Yeah, so Tiffany and Coe makes all those. But the Super Bowl costs $50,000, but they say the value is only $10,000. Whereas the Stanley Cup, the Stanley Cup's value is the highest of all the major sports. Obviously, there's only one of it, so it doesn't get recreated every year.

So the sentimental value. Do you have any idea what Stanley Cup is worth or no? They say, yes. They say the value of it is $23,000. I don't know, man. I think that if you take the Lombardi trophy, suppose, well, just suppose the bills win the Super Bowl, and there's only one trophy they get. and you put that out for auction.

There's no way that thing goes for less than $250K. Like crazy super fans, no way. I completely agree. I completely agree. So that was just, that was... Dude, their rings are worth well over $10K now. All right. All right.

We'll go down a rabbit hole, but that's really cool information. So it'll be interesting. We'll have to take this to a punch out. Maybe we'll do a little recap on the old Instagram Trading Secrets podcast next time you're in town, David, and we'll just rip through this trophy and get our take. The weight, the field, the look.

Maybe we do like a gold tester or diamond tester with the... like a little diamond things. We're on to something. I like it. I like it. To end that, the World Cup trophy, $200 million in value. That thing's solid 18-kered gold. What? Yeah, 200 million. And also, again, look at the scale, right? One team in the entire planet wins it with the biggest sport in the world. And it's, and it's only one of it. All right, another fact check for you that I got to bring. You talked about the demographic numbers from the Dancing with Starts crowd, transferring over to Disney Plus. I also thought it was a risky move. I did. however, watch it on Disney Plus from the comfort of my bedroom. So I'm, I'm curious to hear

if you have fact check numbers on that, which I'm sure you do, because you're just the fact check king here. Oh, we got, we got numbers on this. Okay, what do you think their view, their median viewing demographic age is? Uh, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say 40 on that. It's probably a little. 63 and a half. What? And this is all according to tech crunch. So their median viewer audience, uh, was 63 and a half before they went. went over to Dancing with the Stars. The big concern over to Disney Plus. Over to Disney Plus with live Dancing with Stars.

The big concern with that is that only 9% of all Disney Plus subscribers are 55 years and older. So there's a huge, huge question about just the whole idea, can you convert these people? 23% of Disney Plus subscribers are 18 to 34. But I think that was a big part of the equation of bringing D'Amelio in because they could bring a younger audience. I've talked to some of the cast of Dancing with Stars, and they had told me that from executives at the top, that the expectations, that's all I know, the expectations were exceeded for Disney Plus. We don't know numbers or anything, but we know that, you know, that's the case. So I think that's pretty interesting.

And then this is interesting. Like we know what, you know, Bachelor ratings look like as far as viewership. Like they're, you know, they get about 2 million people or so per episode watching. What do you think Dancing with the Stars gets? It's a good question. I always look at The Bachelor's the best performing show on ABC so I could be wrong about this. So I'm going to say that Dancing with the Stars are about 1.6 million. Dancing with the Stars finale with Danny and Amat.

Where's the number here? 5.4 million, according to the U.S. Sun. 5.4. million so this show gets a lot and you talk about you know obviously budgets and all that stuff you could see why there's more dollars allocated to this show uh as opposed to other shows where ratings are less i i i'm always just like a binge like i think the binge watching crowd too when things are on streaming platforms i think people are just more uh willing to go binge a show too because it's in that format whereas when it's a regular even though you can dvr and uh you know

even though the bachelor's on hulu and things like that i just feel like when things are only on a streaming platform, you just wait from them to come out so you can binge them. Yeah, I think that's important. The other thing I read in the Wall Street was last week, I believe, like Friday or Thursday, Disney Plus increased the price point $3 per month, and 94% of the people that are subscribers absorbed it. That's huge numbers. So people are okay with the fact that they're increasing, you know, do the math, right? Three times 12, $36 per year. So that's a loyal subscribing base. too. It's risky business for the old cable networks when you got people who are going to

subscribe to these streaming services because one of their staple cable television shows are moving over when your staples move over what's left for the cable live sports. I don't know but live sports I don't watch on cable anymore. I watch it in the apps. Yeah but you put you always on the delay though and then you have people like me ruining the game for you. Did you see that touchdown? That is true. There is a little bit of a delay. All right, David. What else do you got on the Vail episode? I got a really interesting take that I think that you always bring up in terms of talking to your co-workers about what you get paid and try and get, you know, that knowledge is power type of thing.

He was very clear that he said he keeps a professional distance between those of authority on the show in terms of his relationship with that. Did you find that surprising that he doesn't talk to his coworkers about how much they make since he's been on the show for so long? Given his personality, I don't find that surprising. but given the nature of the show, I have a pretty good idea that that group is really close and they do talk about this stuff.

And I think from rumblings I've heard, a lot of it's based on seniority how long you've been with the show. Yeah, that makes sense. And then another thing he talked about too, he used baseball as an example. He said it's not that the players are hitting the ball harder. It's that more eyeballs are on it

and that's what drives the salaries. Do you really believe, do you think that, you know, per eyeball basis is a good way to test your market value or if you're a new company or a startup company and you're listening at home, you know, is eyeballs on your product, eyeballs on your idea, eyeballs on your brand the most important thing or one of the most important things? It's the name of the game, right? You could be the most irrelevant actual pro, but if you're relevant because your likability and your marketing, you'll make so much, so much more. That's why we had Rob Grunkowski on the podcast. He's the ultimate unicorn, Hall of Fame player.

Hall of Famer when it comes to marketing and personality. So I bet he's making more money now just off marketing deals than he ever did in the league. It's also too, like how many people have you met that have the greatest idea that just never come to fruition because they say, I don't know how to start a business. I don't know how to get my product out there. So execute, execute, execute, execute. Got to get it out there. Last question I got for you. You're a pretty dedicated guy. If you put your mind to it, you can really do anything. Yep. Would you go on dancing with the stars and how far do you actually think that you could make it? I would

go, but I would want, like, if I'm mad, if like the idea of situations you get a three to six month heads up, the whole time I'd be preparing, trying to learn. I think, like, the one thing I tell Caitlin is soccer players, like a lot of soccer players, especially forwards, you have to have rhythm. Like, you have to be able to do stepovers

and cut quickly and turn inside, outside, lose left and right foot. So I feel like that I'd have that ability. But I don't know, man. It's, I will say this. Like, Caitlin would practice with me. I'm like, this is so fucking hard. Like, the way you have to look, the way you have to move your hand, the way you have to use your feet.

Like, it is, it is so athletic. And I think it's one of these things you really, it's almost like learning a second language. Like the earlier you know it, the better off you are and the most likely it will stick. So that'll be interesting. But what we'll do, guys, is next week, we have for the 100th episode,

the one and only, Caitlin Bristow coming on. And what I can promise you, David, in the recap, because I don't know if we address it. I'll have to go back, because we record her about a month or two ago. But if we don't address it, we'll hit it in the recap. What you can make on Dancing with the Stars as a pro, at least the information that we hear that's out there. All right, David, anything else before we close up? I got nothing. Great episode. Can't wait for the 100th. Can't believe we're there. We're at 100. We will recognize that in the recap next week.

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