Trading Secrets - Love is Blind VS Bachelor. The numbers, data and info BTS of reality tv. Bachelor Data returns to breakdown the $ecrets!

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

This week Jason is joined by the OG Reality TV data analyst and founder of Bachelor Data, Suzana Somers!      In January 2022, Suzana shared all about how she developed an extremely detailed system that tracked data of various facets of the Bachelor franchise from the contestants, from time on screen to their Instagram follower count to their endeavors after the show. This time around Jason and Suzana dive into how the data has changed in just a year with recent reality shows, specifically Love is Blind.    Suzana gives insight on what her turning point was for creating an entirely new business to expand into more reality TV shows, her take on the pros and cons of the errors during the live Love is Blind finale, how being on different networks can impact the longevity of potential growth, how other networks are better at curating their alumni, and how spilling tea tends to help follower growth. Suzana also reveals why she believes season 4 of Love is Blind is breaking so many different records, how having authentic and different people on Love is Blind sets the show up for success, how TikTok is impacting reality TV, how she tracks data for networks like Netflix, and when the Bachelor franchise tests potential changes. What sort of trends is she seeing with reality TV contestants on social media? Where does she see the future of reality TV contestants and their success on different social media platforms? Which contestants get the most followers? Which network is outpacing the Bachelor?    Suzana reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!    Be sure to follow the Trading Secrets Podcast on Instagram & join the Facebook   Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.   Sponsors: It’s golf. It’s not golf. It’s Topgolf. Pro-tip, download the app & book ahead of time to Come Play Around on Half-Price Tuesday, or any other day. Visit cort.com/podcast to learn more and find the furniture package that fits your life   Host: Jason Tartick Voice of Viewer: David Arduin Executive Producer: Evan Sahr   Produced by Dear Media.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today we are joined for the second time by the OG reality TV data analyst and founder of Bachelor Data, Susanna Summers, when we originally met with Susanna in January of 2022. That is over a year ago. We learned all about how she developed an extremely detailed system that tracked data of various facets of the Bachelor franchise from the contestants' time on screen to their Instagram follower account,

to their endeavors after the show. I mean, even like the amount of roses that are given off, literally think about anything you could track with the Bachelor franchise and Bachelor data, Susanna has done that. This time around, we want to discuss how the data has changed in literally just a year with all of these recent reality shows, specifically Love is Blind, which has generated a massive following for all the contestants after the season has just wrapped up this past week. What sort of trends is she seeing with reality TV contestants on social media now versus

then? What shows are generating more of a social media following for its contestants? where does she see the future of reality TV contestants and their success on different social media platforms? Love is Blind, Bachelor Nation numbers. We're covering it all. It is so wild how much has changed in just a year. Susanna, thank you so much for being here,

and thank you for coming back on Trading Secrets. Hey, it's an honor to have you back. Yes, I think you saw the numbers. We're talking numbers here. Last time you were on, the episode crushed. So it is an honor. for us to have you back. It's a beautiful thing. So we had you back about, let's see, it was January 2022. And I just think about how much has changed within the reality TV space. And for everyone

listening there, I'm just going to like tease all the things I want to talk about. I want to talk about love is blind from season one to four, just the trends. I want to talk about how that's comparing to the Bachelor, Bachelor Nation. I want to know all the things that are happening behind the scenes, what you project coming to the scenes, all the numbers, the followers, the follow. following growth. I can't wait to get into it. But before I do, I think the perfect topic is talking about the fact in just a year, you had your bachelor data account. That was your bread and butter business. You then created a new account. It's called pop culture data. So now you are analyzing different shows. And I want to know between Love is Blind and Love Island and other shows out

there, what was that turning point for you that warranted creating literally a whole? whole new business and a whole new page because there's so much attraction elsewhere. Tell me about that. Yeah, I think it's similar to the sports world. You know, sports world and data go hand in hand. People don't talk about sports anymore without data. You're listening to a game. You listen to the commentators and they're frequently dropping all of these different data pieces. And I think what my account did was it was the first account that started analyzing data within the reality TV space. And it was stuff that we were always thinking about. You know, you think back to Nick Vial's season premiere, and so many women were wearing red dresses to the point where

it was a topic of conversation between the women that we saw on the show. Now, everybody at home was wondering, oh, I wonder how that compares to previous seasons, and that data wasn't there. And now that that data is there, people are wanting that data for every TV show that they watch. So basically expanding the empire of reality TV data analysis to other shows now. Okay. I got to dig a little deeper. Have you found that there's also more attention on some of these shows? Or were you getting an influx of questions about, you know, love is blind compared to Bachelor that made you say to yourself, okay, I got to make a move here. I got to do something to cover these. A thousand percent, especially when it comes to Netflix versus ABC versus Hulu, it's hard to compare because Netflix itself or the Bravo universe, the number of people that watch those shows is. just so much bigger these days that the questions were just nonstop. I mean, with Fanderpump rules and all the drama recently with the cheating scandals, I've never gotten so many questions

before. It was literally thousands of DMs asking me to cover it. I remember before that scandal came out, I was talking to Chris Harrison, and he made some kind of comment of like, that used to be the bachelor. Like any type of scandal, anything happened with alumni. It was the hottest thing. It was on the press everywhere. Big celebrities were talking about it. Everyone was buzzing. He just said, you know, now that you've seen a shift, that is no longer The Bachelor. That is the other shows.

And it's interesting to see someone from his time period, which, of course, he has a biased perspective, given everything that's happened. But it's interesting to just see someone from his perspective, see the shift in what is being covered and what's not being covered. Now, as you guys know, Love is Blind is with Netflix. This is a financial podcast. So we're going to keep it a little financial. So I'm giving you something here.

Netflix is trading today at $324 a share. You can buy it. I always say, buy a little piece of something that you enjoy. It's easier to follow along, but they are down 7% year over year. And then ABC, of course, shows The Bachelor. They're owned by Disney. They're trading today at $98.72, which is down 25% year over year. But enough of stocks and money, let's get into some of the fun conspiracies I have.

So there's a conspiracy out there. I have. at least I created on Twitter that when love is blind had some technical difficulties, I was thinking, you know what? Maybe this was intentional. Maybe it was intentional because it was the topic around the world. I thought you could correct me here, but like maybe one of the most trending topics. Everyone's tweeting. Everyone's posting. Caitlin like even made a joke to me. She made a funny post about it, I think with Tiffany sleeping. And she had like 500 comments in less than two minutes, which is just crazy. So what's your take? Am I way off here? Do you have any perspective on the Love is Blind

finale technical difficulties? Give me some data. What do you got? You know, the thought crossed my head as well. I was on Instagram and Love is Blind all day. That day had a live stream going on Instagram. And it was just like remind people to tune in. And when it started getting late, I mean, I had just gotten home. I had like two minutes to spare. So I'm like popping on trying to get everything going. I'm getting all these errors suddenly. I check my DMs. Hundreds of DMs being like, why can't I access it? And then I hop on the live stream. And the live stream is popping. I mean, tons of people are starting to join. Ex-contestants are making jokes in there. Everybody's giving updates. A lot of people are confused. And then brands started joining.

So first, it was Cheesecake Factory. And all of these other brands started to join. We had eBay. It was everybody was in there. And then Snooki join, Vinny join. And they were all making jokes. And then, of course, tons of ex-contestants were in there just, like, nonstop commenting. And I was actually tracking some of them live. And they were gaining thousands of followers just by being in there. What? It got everybody talking. Opportunity missed.

Yeah. I mean, every social media manager was just telling their brand, like, get in there now. And the meme started, I mean, it was great publicity. But their stocks did drop. So personally, I know from like the technical perspective as somebody who used to be an IT director, I think they just weren't ready for that many people. And yes, they have the data on how many people watch this show. I mean, we have it too now.

We can see how many times that this TV show has been in the top 10, you know, the Netflix top 10 of the day. Yeah. They have all of this data more than we have. But I just don't think that they were expecting that many people to tune in live and it just exploded in their faces. That is so interesting. But one of the things that made my conspiracy go away was when it was over and

hour and a half and people still couldn't watch the finale. I was like, this is more than just let's be the number one trending topic. This is a massive blunder. Now, if I have Love is Blind fans, we're kicking off right now with Love is Blind fans, especially just because finale occurred. But if I have Bachelnation fans, we're going to talk all about that. There's been a lot of noise in Bachelnation. What's going on with the show? What's happening with the followings of these individuals and cast and leads after the show? And even what's kind of weird, is with the Bachelorette coming up. I remember when I was on the Bachelorette, that premiered like mid-May. Now it's premiering late June. Even the time slot went up one hour. So we'll

talk about that. Right now, Love is Blind. How has Season 4 compared to previous seasons as it relates to just the different measures of success that you look at? Love is Blind one, two, three, and four. How did Four do compared to previous seasons? Love is Blind Season 4 is breaking so many different records. So right off the bat, we have the most couples say yes at the altar. So that was at our finale before the reunion. Typically every season, it's been two couples that said yes. This season, we have three couples say yes.

And then fast forward to the reunion, which is typically a year after filming. It's much longer than the Bachelor world where the Bachelor finishes filming and then the reunion is typically filmed a month or two later. it's a whole year later. So all of the mess has really played out behind the scenes before this cast was announced this reunion had four couples still together. That includes Jackie and Josh. So people that met on this season. If we look back to seasons one, two and three, we've had two of the seasons had three couples together and one of the seasons had two couples together. So we have the most people together, the most people who said yes at the altar. So so many love stories happening, which has been so exciting to watch.

The whole thing is fascinating to me to see the trajectory of the show and then to hear these numbers. A question I got to put out there, I go right into my social media monetization brain. There has to be a correlation to those who get married and their follower accounts growing at a faster rate than others. Is that correct? The big thing in reality TV with data analysis, be it The Bachelor, Love is Blind, perfect match even, you know, you look at all these different TV shows. The people who get the most followers are the ones who get the hero storylines. So typically, those are the relationships. So we look even back at Hannah Brown's season. Hannah Brown and Tyler, my gosh, records, the storyline after

that show ended, where everybody was watching them with the quarantine crew. It was like the best hero storyline. Hannah got cheated on. And then she went back to her number two, which was everybody's favorite. I mean, the followers were insane. And that's been the same every single season. You look at Clayton's season. Gabby and Rachel surged past Clayton because they were the hero storyline of Clayton, you know, really did these women wrong. That was the storyline that pictures put out there and people followed Gabby and Rachel. On Love is Blind, if you look at this season versus previous seasons, in previous seasons, it's typically the couples that stayed together. But this This season, we had a new hero storyline come out, and that was Marshall Glaze, cousin of Justin from Katie Thurston season.

And he surged past Brett, who this season actually has had some really interesting trends with Instagram followers around gender. But Brett was really in the lead most of the season. And then as soon as Jackie versus Marshall's storyline came out, Marshall surged past everyone on Instagram and on TikTok. Interesting. So this is one of the first times that the individual with the largest following actually didn't come and isn't currently in a relationship. Exactly. You talked about, you know, Cameron and some of the followings of the 1.9, the 2 million followers. How is that comparing to the followers that Love is Blind season four contestants

now have? You mentioned the top three. What are their followings currently at? It's tanking. So as of last night, Tiffany had 420,000 followers, Marshall had 424,000 followers, and Brett had 410,000 followers. But this is still the week of the reunion. A ton of people haven't watched yet. And Netflix versus ABC and Hulu, it's very different with not only followers while you're watching the show, but longevity of potential for growth. So if we look back at season one, Lauren had 2.4 million followers. Cameron had 1.9 million followers. The next season, it dropped. By the time the finale hit, Deepty had 709,000 followers. Natalie had 611,000 followers. It took the person who was in the first place over a week to hit a

million after the finale. Season three, Raven, it took her over a month to hit a million followers after the show ended. But this is very different than Bachelor. So while there's been a decrease each season in the average number of Instagram followers that contestants get, the difference between Netflix and ABC and Hulu is that contestants continue to grow for years after their season,

whereas Bachelor, about a few weeks after the show is over, the majority of contestants all start losing followers unless something is happening that keeps them in the media. So, you know, somebody goes on dancing with the stars or Hannah Brown and Tyler Cameron are spotted on a date. And then there's the quarantine crew. And then Tyler Cameron is spotted with Gigi Hadid. All of these things that keep them in the news will keep them growing. But as soon as they're not in the news anymore, they drop very different with Love is blind and just Netflix shows in general.

So Netflix shows, you're seeing the contestants. They're sustaining their following at a much greater rate than Bachelor Nation is. That's correct? Exactly. Even, and, you know, there are contestants who buy followers. Yes. Any reality TV show, people will buy followers. It's a very dumb thing to do business-wise, but people do it. Well, all the brand, just because I work with so many brands with my agency and stuff, they all have software that tracks all that. They'll know exactly what's going on. Exactly. But if you look at the entire cast, it's amazing when you look five, six months later,

and they've only dropped 3,000 followers, whereas you look at some of our former leads who aren't buying followers and they're dropping hundreds of thousands of followers. And it's really interesting because this isn't even a, are they creating good content, which typically Netflix contestants are putting a lot more effort into creating good content than most Bachelor contestants. It's more the accessibility of the show. So even somebody like myself who is obsessed with The Bachelor, it is so hard at times to go and access old seasons. And it's not just like all there for me to watch. And that's because Bachelor, some seasons are owned by different agents like WB versus

Hulu versus so and so. So it can't all be in one place. Whereas Netflix has all of their seasons in one spot and they have an amazing algorithm that when they start to see that you're watching reality TV, they're going to start showing on your main screen, love is blind, perfect match, all these different things for you to watch. So people will go and continue watching. all of these shows that aired a year, two years, three years ago that keeps these contestants

relevant. Bachelor is losing in that game. That is so interesting because I have said for a while now, one of the biggest issues with The Bachelor is, again, this could be wrong with my understanding at the top, is that they don't want to see a lot of their alumni move in directions that creates a lot of momentum for them. They don't want this show to create massive fame for these people. What they want is you come in, you give them the ratings, you get out. And one of the biggest issues I have with that is you have this alumni network that has done massive things across the board. I mean, if you looked at, you know, the top, I don't know, top 50 people from Bachelor Nation in the last five years that have driven a ton of financial pop culture or

professional success, it's incredible what they've done, but they don't do anything to curate the alumni. The only thing they do is they have this like Bachelor Nation podcast or whatever it or like this group of like four people that they just rotate. They don't bring anyone else in. And they don't, I feel like they just don't collaborate in any way, shape, or form with their alumni. Where for the season finale and the season premiere and all this stuff, you know, Love is Blind has these big trucks. They have pods in the truck.

You can go into the pod. Talk to former contestants. And it's not just like one or their two favorites. It's majority of them. And I think that's a huge thing. Like curating your alumni is huge. Think about the way Bravo's done. it with like bravo con and all the real housewives as opposed to kind of throwing them to the side

and say good luck they're like hey you're part of our family not only that but you can bring a lot of benefit to us and they don't do that in any way shape or form which i think is really starting to catch up with them yeah a thousand percent i feel like the people who are running things on the back in it's kind of like senioritis you know your last year in high school or your last year in college where you're just doing things just to get through it and throwing whatever you can out there just to get through it. They're not innovating. You know, the first innovative thing they've done with Bachelor in Paradise is copying the Love Island Casa Amortwist. Like it, they're not doing much to actually attempt to change things. And I do want to say, I know Netflix messed up really bad with this

reunion, but they are making attempts to do new things, you know, and they are staying relevant in the news. And, you know, even though right now with Love is Blind, there's, you know, some stuff coming out performer contestants about the way they were treated and whatnot. But when you look at how each brand uses the people that they cast, every other network is doing it so much better. I mean, I remember listening to Taylor, who recently won Big Brother. And she was doing a podcast. And when she came off, she was like, CBS is asking me, what do I want to do next? And they're connecting me with different media opportunities and all these different things. And yes, she's the winner. So, Obviously, she's getting a lot of media.

But I don't remember the last time that a lead came off of The Bachelor, actually praising them, you know? It's so interesting. Amplified by them. And it's really interesting because the franchise does choose a few people. You know, it's the people who run their podcast, and those are the spokespeople for the entire franchise. And there are so many favorites that they're just not utilizing.

And on top of that, they are turning. on so many contestants and making them into villains as well. You know, be at a tell-all episode or even if you look at The Bachelor and who they cast as the lead, the last few bachelors, they made them all into villains. Zach, villain, Clayton, villain. Like, how is that helping your storyline, like, to actually turn your audience against the person that everybody's trying to date? It's the decisions that they're making, it's really frustrating to see as somebody who has

loved this show since 12. 2010. Like, religiously, I used to buy every season on Amazon, leave it on in the background and putting it on. I don't do that anymore. And it's just, it's not interesting. And it hasn't been interesting for quite some time. The format has been so stale. And it doesn't matter even if you look at, you know, Hannah Brown's season or Peter's season, which were touted as fantastic seasons. That was just because of the mess that came along with it and all of the storylines that continued after the season. The season itself, it's gotten to the point where somebody like me can analyze it to the level of saying on the Bachelorette, the favorites get firework states.

Like, it's so stale and so repetitive that I've been able to figure out what they're doing behind the scenes. Like, they need to change things up. They got to change things up. They got to curate this alumni. And I mean, honestly, I feel like majority of the time I get reached out to from the show, it's because, especially after the show, it's like a cease and desist or a warning for one thing I said, you know? And it's just amazing to me that there's not that ability to curate. There's one or two producers still with the show that I'm very friendly with and we'll check in. But as far as like the network as a whole, you don't hear one thing about it. And even at times, they make it even extremely challenging

to get alumni to come on your show. If we have a show that's doing well, a podcast and we want alumni or people off the show and we give the ability to take anything out, why would you not want more platforms for people to see your talent, your show. It's crazy. While we're on the topic, this isn't really data, but this is just, I'm curious of your opinion on this. Why is it that love is blind? Why is it that it's become such a phenomenon? What about the production, the structure, just everything you're seeing? We already know the data is pointing to a wild upward trajectory, but why? So first things first is availability, and it's the biggest factor that we can't ignore. So Bachelor is only available on ABC and Hulu. That's it. And after

cutting the cord became such a big thing over a decade ago, Hulu only having 48 million subscribers versus Netflix that had the last reported number was 231 million subscribers. It's just not available and it's not easy to access. I've traveled out of the country twice since really falling in love with this show. And I, as somebody who was a tech director, with a ton of technology knowledge, could not figure away, even with VPNs, to access this show outside of the United States. But it's not accessible like Netflix's. You know, my cousins in Brazil can just get on Netflix and watch Love is Blind. When I have to explain to them that my job is around The Bachelor, they have no way to even try to watch the show without going through VPNs. So that's the first big factor

that we cannot ignore. Second is casting. Netflix does a fantastic job with casting real people. A thing that people have been begging the Bachelor franchise to do is to cast more diverse people. And I know a lot of people immediately shut down when they hear that. And I've had this conversation with tons of family members and whatnot. And they're like, well, what's the problem with being white?

What's the problem with being skinny? What's the problem with this? And there's no problem with that. But I think a lot of people just want to see themselves on TV too. You know, I am a white girl. I am. I grew up in Texas, but my parents are Brazilian. Watching The Bachelor, anytime someone was cast who spoke Portuguese or was from Brazil, I was so excited to see them. I was like, oh, man, I wonder if their culture is going to come up. You know, I would get really excited about that. And it's the same thing for not only race,

but also body types and different cultures and experiences. And I think that that is where Netflix is winning in terms of casting is that they're not only casting really interesting people that make great TV that feel authentic, but they're also, in addition to all of that, playing into their entire audience because their entire audience is international. And then they're spinning off each TV show and they're doing Love is Blind Japan and they're doing Love is Blind Brazil. You bet I have watched every season of Love is Blind Brazil in Portuguese because it's so exciting. And I get excited to see how culture plays into their conversation in the pause. And I'm like, oh, wow, that's just like my family. So like I get excited too. So it's a good business move from

Netflix perspective to, hey, let's get everybody on here so that everybody can see a little bit of themselves on TV. And it's just, it's the 21st century. Like it's and it's 2023. It's no longer the 1990s or early 2000s when Bachelor came out. Like you got to realize there's more people in this world to cast on your show. And then the last big thing that is really playing into Bachelor versus Love is Blind is TikTok. And this is a very hot topic right now for streaming. That's really threatening not only streaming, but just reality TV in general. You got me on the edge of my seat. Tell me more. So in the old days, you know, when there was cable TV, the big conversation when streaming started was Everybody was cutting the cable, and it was networks like ABC versus Hulu versus Netflix.

That competition has now changed. Now, Netflix isn't competing with ABC. They're not cutting, they're not competing with any cable TV. They're competing with TikTok for people's attention. Because in a given day, we only have so many hours. And some of those hours, we got to work. We got to go to school. Some of those hours, we got to eat.

We got to be with our friends. be with our family. The remaining number of hours, all of these people are competing for our attention. And where Love is Blind is winning is that they embraced the TikTok generation long before Bachelor did. Bachelors stayed on Facebook, which who uses Facebook anymore? I mean, you use it for like community groups, but that's basically it. That's it. And they continued using Twitter, which has been dying for years in terms of the number of people who use it. It's mainly just, like, news and sports now. Totally.

Now, Netflix is more worried about losing people to TikTok, which is why, I don't know if they're encouraging this. I do want to point that out. But if you look at contestants on Netflix reality TV shows, they're spending more time actually creating quality content versus contestants on The Bachelor, the entire season that the show is on, none of them are making any content. None of them are playing into, you know, their characters on TV and getting people to be invested in them. So there's no content for the Bachelor franchise on the app that the majority of people are using in the world.

And I think that that's where Love is Blind and Netflix is winning is that their contestants are making content. Marshall has been all over TikTok this entire season. I also want to put out there, this is not a fact. This is not a fact. It's just an opinion. I wonder if there are more constraints knowing the Bachelor franchise about allowing their cast to do TikTok and being very controlled over what narrative they're showing so it doesn't spoil where if they were, again, just an opinion, not a fact I have no idea.

If they were more open to create, create, create, it actually might do better things for the show and those individuals and then the alumni and all the good stuff. How about Marshall's following on TikTok? Yeah, he has 253,000 followers and 3 million likes. Wow, that's huge. I mean, you could probably do all the analysis on TikTok, like reality TV stars on TikTok. But as far as like Bachelor goes, that like 250,000 is really, really big for any type of Bachelor alumni on TikTok. And at his last six videos, three of them have had over a million views.

So that's free advertising. free investment of their audience into that persona on TV. So you look at Perfect Match with Francesca. There are clearly no legal ramifications for these contestants on Netflix to go on social media and just spill tea and call out production. You look at Francesca on Perfect Match, and she immediately, since day one, she was just like, oh, no, I'm dating somebody else. As you guys have all seen on my social media, she didn't have to keep that private.

She was spilling tea about the show. I mean, she was dropping so much tea that would get not only cease and desists in The Bachelor world, but like full-blown lawsuits against the contestants. And then you look at like Jackie versus Marshall this season on Love is Blind. They were dropping receipts. They were talking when he was talking about stuff that he said in the pod, he called out that there was a whole section of the conversation that was cut. That was why everybody was really mad at him for what he had said.

And then Love is Blind released the footage to back him up. because they know he was going to get a hero storyline. You know, Irina, who was the villain on the season, you know, was really neat to him. And then he went back to Bliss and she accepted him. They got married. And then they ended up staying together. So, yeah, release this stuff to help your heroes with defending themselves. But not only that, but with their content creation, it's just, it's genius.

It is genius. We go back to analytics. I'll never forget when Blake Horsman kind of stuck in a corner with the situation. from a cast member from Paradise in the only way that he could back himself out he felt as though was to show text receipts that showed more about it. So I know that everyone that was in the corner of the show would advise him not to do it, but he's like, it's my only choice I have to do it. He put those out there and it generated more, I mean the splash. It was every headline, every podcast was talking about it. He was on the show for, I don't know, it was probably like five or six

episodes at this point. He had actually lost followers. He put that one receipt up, the text receipt. He gained 100,000 followers in 24 hours, which at that point was around 20% of his following. So to your point, opening this stuff, talking about this stuff's amazing. And I think at the end of the day, all we're doing, like this conversation is a lot of constructive criticism, I think, for what we've seen and why it's not working. And I want everyone to know out there, I am forever thankful of this show. Without The Bachelor, I have nothing that I have today, and I will always feel indebted to them. But as an alumni, I want them to pick it up. I want the momentum to continue because when it continues for the show, it helps us all out. And look what other people are doing. You nailed

every point. The only other point I would think about is with love is blind, just the psychology of it, there are parts of it that are extremely relatable. Getting engaged after knowing someone for like 10 days or whatever, probably not, getting married at the altar without, you know, seeing each other, whatever it is. No, but the idea of being kind of entrapped in home, communicating virtually, having a lot of questions to like use a form of communication to really understand what the person's like, that right there is just so relatable for the world. I think that is happening today, especially post-COVID with the whole dating scene, like people trying to figure out, using apps, talking blindly before meeting each other, like that connects too. So I think three,

in some of these new concepts, especially without the cheesy journey lines in this, like just being real, people are craving it, would do just huge things for the show. I want to quickly, though, get one more take on Love is Blind because I did the research today. There's over 30 cast members that joined, got the names of all of them. What about some of the people that weren't shown on the show or got engaged and it wasn't shown. Some of the people that go through with the storyline, but don't get that TV time. Do they have any sort of following? Have they created any splash? Not really. Got it. So this season, we had two couples that got engaged in the pod. And the creator of the

show actually during the first season, answer the big question of, because the first season, we had a few couples that also got engaged and weren't film, weren't shown. And I think the name of the creator of the show's name is Chris Collian. He actually answered and said that they only have so much time to tell a story. So it's a big time thing, and they just end up choosing the people who are the most authentic relationships. And he dismissed the idea that they only choose the couples who will create the most drama or something like that. Like, they just really focus on the most authentic relationships. So as a result, the contestants who aren't chosen, there really isn't a lot of publicity around them.

You know, this season it was, I think Jimmy and Wendy were together. And then Ava and JP. And, you know, three of them are at 2,000 followers or under. And one of them's at 5,000 followers who he gained most of them by being in that live chat, the night of the reunion. But they don't gain the same followers because there's no storyline around them and just not enough social media buzz. Interesting. Gosh, this is so fascinating to hear all this from love is blind, a bachelor, and everything in between. I do want to quickly transition to the Bachelor. I want to just talk a little bit about the ratings. The information we do have as it relates to recent seasons of The Bachelor, two Love is Blind or two other shows, what is the data telling us

right now? Yeah, so ratings aren't available for Netflix in the same capacity that they're available for ABC. So with any type of cable TV network, there's this thing called Nielsen ratings, where it's basically a company that tracks a small group of people, and then they estimate what the viewership is in the United States for that TV show. Netflix, since it's not on public cable, it's not accessible in that same capacity with the information. That being said, Netflix themselves, they can see how many people stream this show. So they have access to that data, but we don't. So the ways that I like to look at how the shows are doing ratings-wise is number one, Instagram followers. Because, you know, even though who we follow has changed over time and people used to follow more reality

TV people pre-pandemic and they don't now, it's going to change every year with each TV show and it's going to be the same if people's following habits change. So while Instagram followers are decreasing, we can compare and see contestants get more followers on Netflix versus ABC and then we can talk about the reasons why. So that's a big reason why is, you know, accessibility. So then the other thing I like to look at is back during Love is Blind season one. So 2020, we were all stuck at home, watching TV all day. They released the top 10 TV shows and the top 10 movies every single day on Netflix. So when you go onto your screen and you scroll down one row, it'll say, what's top 10 in the world? And then the top 10 movies. And that data

has been tracked every single day by a few different websites since a day and a half after it came out. So if we look at Love is Blind and how they've performed while they're, you know, dropping their episodes so the three and a half weeks that it's on season one the average of when it was on so again it came out halfway through the season love is blind averaged at 1.6 so it was in first place for the majority of the season once that analytics piece dropped season two and then here's been what's been really interesting ever since this analytics piece came out every single day after Love is Blind premieres while the season is on, it is always in the top 10 spot. There has not been a single day it dropped out of it, which says a lot when you have

230 million subscribers and this TV show is consistently in the top 10 spot every single day it's on, not the day it's released, not the few days after it's released, every single day. And it's averaging now after that first season around fourth spot. So season two, the average was 4.2. The season three was 4.7. And then this season was just straight up fourth place. And it goes between. So this season, we had some days where it was in second place. And what's crazy is these shows are going against very big TV shows. So some of them, one of the seasons, it was going against the Jeffrey Dahmer show. Oh, yeah. That was the biggest ones. Huge, huge. Another season was going against inventing Anna, which was massive. So the fact that it's

holding up this well, a reality TV show against non-reality TV shows that have become worldwide buzzes. I think it's safe to say, you know, Love is Blind and just Netflix in general is vastly outpacing Bachelor. You know, if you didn't get that from everything I've been saying this episode. Oh my God, blown away. All right, let's talk about follow. We talked about following for Love is Blind cast, following for Bachelor, Bachelorette cast. It seems as though, it's dropped dramatically from the Hannah Brown, Tyler Cameron's of the $1, $2 million plus just on one season and being in the lead to now more in the like 100, 200, maybe 300. Is that the trend you're seeing, the one that I'm thinking? Yeah, it's definitely dropping. So Bachelor

franchise, going on the show and just simply existing on the show and not getting screen time, used to get 50,000 followers easily. And now most contestants don't even get 50,000 followers. This entire season, while Zach is male and males typically get way less followers on The Bachelor than females do. Zach, the entire season, we were all just like waiting for him to hit 100,000 followers. He's since surpassed that, especially with the finale. They surge after the finale. But the number of followers that contestants get is definitely dropping each season.

What's most interesting is when you try to analyze, is it dropping because people aren't watching? or is it not dropping because of something else? Right. And what's your conclusion on that? Because what I'm thinking is, especially even Love is blind from the 2020 days of having millions to 1 to 2 million now down to the 400,000 market, at least right now,

part of me just thinks it's tougher to get following, algorithms different. And also there, of course, is that little competitor over there called TikTok, which really didn't exist at the level it does today in 2020, 21, 22. Of course it existed, just not at the fact that one out of two Americans are on it and using it consistently.

What is your takeaway from why the follower accounts, let's say specifically for Bachelor, have gone down so significantly? Yeah, so I was really interested in this because so many people will say, oh, it dropped because Chris Harrison left. And I put on my data hat and I'm like, okay, let's see if that's true. Sure. So what I decided to do was I decided to look at the average number of Instagram followers on each season.

And I've been tracking every single day since Colton's season. And then I've been tracking weekly for years before that. So I have a lot of data. So basically the number of Instagram followers that you could get peaked between around Colton to Peter. So all the seasons in between there was the prime time to get the most number of Instagram followers if you're not, you know, the winner or the, you know, the lead. Because those people always get the most followers.

So I'm thinking the rest of the cast. So I looked at during that peak, what was the percentage drop in the average number of Instagram followers from then to after Chris Harrison left and after the pandemic and all of that versus the percentage drop in the ratings? Because in theory, if the problem is the ratings, then it should be dropping at the same rate. Correct. And what I found was that the ratings dropped 43% in the average, whereas Instagram follower averages dropped 75%. So people aren't getting less followers because people aren't watching. Is that a factor? Yes, it is.

But it's not the driving factor. The biggest factor is just Instagram is not as viable. So I decided to say to look at, okay, well, is this Chris Harrison or is this a bigger Instagram problem? Is it a reality TV problem, et cetera? So luckily, I've been tracking love is blind every single season since season one. And the average has been dropping every single season as well of what the whole cast gets. This season of Love is Blind is getting a little bit of a boost. It's not dropping at the

same rate, but it's also getting way more press than season three did, especially this week. So the problem is Instagram. And then when you take a step back, and especially as somebody who was a very late adopter of TikTok, so Cloudflare is a company that can actually track how much a domain is accessed in the entire world. So when you look at the fourth quarter of 2020, So right after the pandemic hit, and you look at the top 10 most visited websites, Instagram versus TikTok, TikTok, had already surpassed Instagram. And this is also via apps, et cetera. So TikTok had not only passed that, but it was starting to get close to passing YouTube, Netflix, Google. And then a year later, by the fourth quarter of 2021, TikTok had surpassed every single app as the most visited website

in the world. That includes Amazon. That includes Netflix. That includes YouTube. Every single website in the world, TikTok was the most visited website. So when you think about most people in the world are visiting TikTok more and then Instagram isn't even on the top 10 list, we can easily say people are using TikTok way more than they're using Instagram. So if people aren't actually on the app, if they're not on Instagram, people are going to get less followers because people aren't on the app to follow people. Got it. Okay.

So the conclusion is that the drop in following is not directly correlated to the potential drop in ratings or even increase in ratings. They are not correlated for the most part. For the most part, it's not the main driving factor. If less people are watching the TV show, of course people are going to follow people less. Okay. But it's dropping at a bigger rate that the bigger problem is the platform and not the ratings. Okay.

just have a few more questions for you. This has been so informative. It's brilliant. It's conversations we don't have about the show, but it's what drives all of these shows, which is just amazing. Do you have a take? Politics aside, just a potential likelihood or an opinion, do you think something will or won't happen? Maybe even what you think, the probability that it could happen of TikTok getting banned, because obviously that would significantly impact all your data and obviously would shift a lot of things here. Do you have any type of potential outcome that TikTok might be banned? You know, it's hard to say. I think this whole issue with whether or not it's going to be banned, a lot of people are learning quite a bit about government

and policies and how all that's happening. You know, are there problems with TikTok? Absolutely. Are there problems with Facebook and Instagram and meta? Absolutely. Cambridge Analytica, Facebook, got in trouble for selling our data without our consent. And people used it in governments and elections to sway people. So are there problems with social media in general? Absolutely. My personal opinion is that we as a country need to tackle data privacy more than anything else. That's the bigger piece.

And people have been asking my opinion. So that's my opinion. If TikTok gets banned, will that be a problem? Absolutely. It's going to damage a lot of people's businesses, of people's livelihoods. But there will be another app if people, if that does happen, Clapper is becoming a really big app right now. Lemonade is growing. I mean, it's one of those things. Apps grow, evolve, change who people use it. We'll have a big impact in reality TV and,

you know, why people go on the show will have to see. But I mean, at this point, we just got to see what happens. All right. Well, if TikTok does get banned, you're coming back on for part three because we got to talk all numbers and things associated with it. Last question I got for you is regarding the Bachelorette, right? So we have Bachelorette. I remember when I was on the show, we filmed from March to late April. And then it premiered mid-May, like the 14th or 17th or something like that. And it was primetime TV, and then it went through, I believe, what was August.

And then Bachelor and Paradise started about a month later. This year is something I've never seen before. It's not only starting late, but it's starting very late. So you're going from mid-May, which is closer to the best time for TV, which is technically the fall, but now you're pushing it out to late June. Now, summer is primarily, there's less competition, but it's the worst time for TV. Why? Because everyone is out and about.

They're finally getting to see the sun. Then, on top of the push, the timing of the episode went back. I believe one hour. So it went from primetime TV to being pushed to a later segment. Typically, when that happens, that is a sign from my understanding that either ratings are down or they have to save money because the slot is less. That's huge movement. Have you seen that? Have you analyzed it? What's your take on it? Yeah, it's really interesting because this is the first time that it has changed since I started watching in 2010. And if you go back and look even further, it's really always had that primetime spot. So I have a few theories. First off,

what we've seen in recent years is that this franchise tests changes with the Bachelorette. And if you look at ratings, that makes sense because the Bachelor gets the most viewers and then The Bachelorette and the Bachelorette and then Bachelor in Paradise, which Bachelor in Paradise typically gets less viewers because it's in the summertime. They've now pushed that to fall. So ever since the pandemic hit and Clarentatious season was thrown off, I feel like nothing has has been the same. So first things first, the Bachelor has been 10 weeks of filming, you know, 10, 10 rose ceremonies ever since Jake Pavelka season or Bad Wemex second season, around then. And to this day, it is still 10 weeks to this day. The Bachelorette on the

flip side, ever since the pandemic hit, has been shorter every single season. Katie's was the shortest season with the least number of rose ceremonies. And then we look at how they test different things. So our first year that we had two different bacheloretts was the bachelorette. They've never done it with the bachelor. And then the first time that we had two leads in the same season was the bachelorette. So clearly they're testing something. What they're testing and if they're trying to move it to streaming, we'll have to see if that's what they're doing, but they haven't come out to say. What I find most interesting that not a single outlet has reported on is who has taken that spot, that one hour slot that was

given to somebody else. Sure. And that show was Claim to Fame. And yes, we all watched it because it was always on after The Bachelor. But who's an executive producer on Claim to Fame? Who? The creator of Love is Blind. What?

And no one has reported on that. Wait a second. So the creator of Love is Blind has created the show that had the Bachelor at time slot and the Bachelorette's been moved up an hour. He's an executive producer on it. So I haven't been able to find who created the show. Wow. Whereas with Love is Blind, they specifically said he's the creator of the show.

But somehow, a show that came from Love is Blind and the creator of it is now taking the Bachelorette spot, which I find wild. Why would ABC buy a television show that is from the creator of a show that's literally swiped them? But maybe the thought process is, if you can't beat them, join them. Maybe that's the process. Holy smokes. What I do find interesting about The Bachelorette, so with ratings, and this is actually

really funny to talk to you about because it has to do with Caitlin. Yeah. If you look at the average ratings each season has gotten since the first season of The Bachelorette, and then for The Bachelor, I think I have all the way back to Jake Pavelka's season. So if you average the number of, or not Instagram followers, the average number of viewers, each season. And then you see the difference from season to season. So was it a drop or was it a gain? On The Bachelor, we have seen consistent drops in the average number of viewers ever since Colton's season. Colton was the last time that it was a positive. So if we look

all the way back to Jake Pavelka's season, only five seasons had seen a gain from the previous season. And those were Jake, Sean Lowe, Juan Pablo, Ben Higgins, and Colton. So even if we look all way back to Colton was the last time that there was a positive growth in the number of people who were watching. And then Ari and Nick were drops from their previous seasons. The Bachelorette on the flip side hasn't been so consistent. The last season that we saw a game and the number of viewers was Caitlin's season. Wow. Really? And it has been a drop every single season since until Gabby and Rachel's season. It has been the first season since the pandemic that we've seen an increase in the average number of viewers from the previous season.

Interesting. That is some fascinating data, and I'm sure Caitlin will absolutely love to hear that. Well, this has been such a treat. I had no idea about that time slot. How has no one talked about that? Is mind-blowing to me? I always try to keep episodes of 30, 45 minutes. This one has been an hour, and I could have gone another hour.

But we will pause there because at some point, we're just going to have to do a first ever part three with Bachelor Data. Susanna, before I let you go, Trading Secret, you got to give it to us. It could be anything as you know. You've done it once. You've done it before. Your second trading secret ever, what can you leave us with? This is my biggest tip right now, especially as I'm introducing a third new brand to the Bachelor Data Universe, and that has to do a data analysis. So data analysis is the critical sidekick to any business. Your numbers are nothing with a story. So learning basics Excel will not only level up your game and your usefulness as an employee in a company, but long term, it's going to be an essential skill for you. Even with

AI and all the technology that's coming with it, the human aspect of understanding your data and selling a story around it isn't going to go away. And I know this too because I'm an Excel creator. I work with Microsoft. I know what's coming. And I do know a data analysis and that story piece is always going to be the most important. So my training secret is learn Excel, learn some storytelling and some data visualization, and you will become so useful and so critical at work. That's everything too, right? So that's work. But like I even think about the whoop I wear, all it is is more data. I see more. And now I can adjust it. And because I've adjusted it, I'm way healthier now. So even from the professional side to the health side, all things,

When you hear, I think, especially my listeners are going to hear data analytics, and they're going to be like, but trust me, that's where the world's going. And that, just that word, those two words, data analytics are something you need to embrace and know, it's only going to better and optimize everything you have. It's amazing. It's a great trading secret. And the big thing, too, is to know just because you want to learn data analysis doesn't mean you have to learn coding or any complex tools like Power BI and Tableau. you can become so essential in your company just by understanding how to read a data set and make a few visually engaging charts that answers people's problems so that they can make those decisions. You don't need to learn all of that. I don't know coding. I know basic coding,

but I've never once used coding in my data analysis. So it's so accessible. You know, just take a basic Excel class. And obviously, I'll plug myself. I got my Excel classes for you guys. But definitely it's an essential skill, try to take some time to learn it, find some fun data to play with, and you will become so essential at work. The largest raise that I ever personally got and the largest raise I've ever given in two forms came from taking data of historical performance and creating extremely professional visuals of that to my boss and for me, giving a raise to me. Those are huge things that could help you guys out as you're going into a review and you're trying to differentiate. Susanna, where can people find all the

product services you offer to help people accomplish that? Yeah, so I have three different brands, but you can find them all just at bachelordata.com. I have Bachelor data, pop culture data, and rethink data. They can find all links there. All right. You guys go give Susanna a follow on all those. Check out her products. Those products are changing people's lives.

They're educational and they're easy to use if you do feel like you are paralyzed by just the whole conversation of data analytics. Susanna, thank you so much for being here. Part 2 of Trading Secrets, this one is going to blow people's minds. Thanks for having me. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell to the Bachelor data. Susanna Summers' episode, it was jam-packed, information left and right.

Quick little break here to tell you, if you haven't given us five stars on Apple, please do. Give us a review. Tell us who we should have. Follow us on Instagram. But that episode, I know the wheels are spinning. David, Curious Canadian. What are you thinking? It's good to be back with you?

On the recap. You forgot to say, go follow our YouTube. We are on YouTube now. True. We're putting the recaps on YouTube too. Big YouTubers. So, guys, Trading Secrets Podcasts YouTube. I watched the last one back from the low episode, and it looks like you kidnapped me

and put me in your basement with the lack of background here. So we're going to work on that. It's a work or progress. The best part about the YouTube, too, yes, it looks like I kidnapped you. We're going to get some of the back. But the best part is, like, David and I oftentimes have to give each other like hand signals. like, okay, wrap that fucking thought up. Let's go.

We're on a quick time frame. So when you're watching the YouTube, you'll get to see all these weird things behind the scenes. But David, Bachelor Data, what do you think? I'm going to call her pop culture data because she's going bachelor. She's going pop culture. We're going to get right into it here

because you guys went a little long, but it was juicy, juicy info. I got to talk about this. Okay. You brought up the conspiracy. Me and you, we'd like to throw the conspiracies back and forth about the love is blind finale going a little long. We've seen companies do this before.

where they have a little, maybe a conspiracy, maybe a publicity stunt, but sometimes it doesn't always work. Like she mentioned, Netflix stock has dropped lately, maybe sales dropped for a certain company. I just really want your take from a business perspective. What is the risk reward that goes into publicity stunt versus the risk of a stock or a sales just plummeting and not recovering from it, or not getting your ROI from it from an impression's point of view? It's actually so funny to say that because it's so hard to measure, right?

I think if we think about, we go way back to like the Justin Timberlake, Janet, Jackson came into that Super Bowl. I still remember it. People still talked about it. In those scenarios, all their record sales and CD sales went up. But you also look at like a Vanderpump rule situation right now. There were a lot of conspiracies that Lisa Vanderpump made this all up, that this was all a strategy to impact business so that the business viewers were up. And they were. But then you think about like Tom and Raquel, you know, they got impressions all over the world, but all their brand and business is getting killed. So it is this interesting like the economy of like do at what point is too much publicity going to break you right and i think that's

what we saw possibly you also see it with the bachelor like they have made a point to villainize their leads and it's not only crushing their show but it's just crushing their followers and you've always talked about to your blue in the face and i think you're right they're just not celebrating their talent they're not celebrating and try and make these people successful they are just their you know publicity and conspiracy stunt is just leaning into the drama so hard and editing the show to make these people look awful, which is hurting everybody. They're getting so far away from the point of what the business is and for these companies, what the sales goals is and what their consumer is. 100%. What's interesting is just this morning. So guys, this is Thursday. So this is Thursday

before the episodes released in four days or so. I sent Susanna Summers a message, batch of data. I said, I'm really interested in this thing we talked about, alumni engagement. I want you to go in the last four seasons of Love is Bind and the main characters with main following, see if in their Instagram bio, or TikTok, they mention L-I-B, Love is Blind. I want to go back 10 seasons or so with The Bachelor, Bachelorette, and Bachelor in Paradise, the main kid, so like the people that get hometowns in the lead. And then for Paradise, just the couples, go to their Instagram bio and see if they'd mention the Bachelorette or Bachelor at all. I don't know the information yet. She's going to dig it up. My prediction is that they're the alumni of the bachelor, bachelor,

don't even mention it. They don't even talk about it. Where love is blind, they put it everywhere. That's alumni engagement. That is, honestly, the definition of, like, built up resentment from alumni, just, like, rebelling against the entire network because we feel nothing. We feel kind of used and abused and kicked out. It's almost like where you have companies that make the top,

100 companies to work for in the world and people are proud to work for them. It's like in the reality TV space, it's like no one, like top reality shows that you like were a part of, no one's giving The Bachelor love because of they just feel so mistreated at the end. And that's going to stop people from wanting to go on it because guess what, Bachelor, there's more competition now. More competition. I mean, if you're someone on a reality show like in your thinking, I can go on Love is

blind or I can go on The Bachelor, you would be out of your damn mind to pick Bachelor over love is blind right now for all the reasons. streaming service over cable TV show, even though it's on Hulu. And that kind of segues into what I wanted to talk next in terms of you, personally. It's very clear that shows, even Love is Blind and Bachelor of Discrepancy followers year over year. It's declining. And that might have something to do with the show, but I think it really tells a tale into

the app. And the main revenue-generating app for these people and for you is Instagram. What does this make you think? Because you're a numbers guy, your money guy. You know the big part of your income is tied to your Instagram. do you have a five-year plan, a one-year plan if you continue to see the decline in numbers? And it's not just your numbers. Your numbers might stay the same because people aren't just going and actively unfollowing you.

But if people coming off these shows and the engagement is less and the numbers are going down, brands are going to take their money elsewhere to where numbers are going up. So how do you handle that on a personal level? It's a great question. And it's one that could be a full episode. But I'm going to try and simplify it. at the end of the day, Facebook owns Instagram. They're publicly traded.

The information that they provide to shareholders and stockholders about their app and the credibility is massive. So a lot of companies want to align with Instagram. When you go to TikTok, there's a lot of fear right now. Will it be banned? Will it be shut down? Obviously, it's the main competitor that's taking over. So companies are a little bit more hesitant, I think, to put dollars there. So there's too many question marks to answer that, David, because if TikTok does get banned,

Imagine the mass amount of people that are going to fly back to Instagram and what's going to happen there. Such a good point. The big thing, the only thing you can do in this space right now is, like everything, diversify, right? Have a website. Be able to get contacts from your website. Have an email list. Use the text line marketing available. Get followers on Twitter, on TikTok, on YouTube, all the channels.

And then from that, hopefully you could diversify based on what happens within this crazy world and these crazy companies. Are you sneaky rooting for a TikTok to get banned? Like, what's your take? Do you have a side? Yeah, I mean, so, you know, for the agency, I'd like TikTok not to get banned because it's such an opportunity for people to grow and build. For me personally, I wouldn't hate TikTok being banned, right? If TikTok gets banned, engagement and more followers will come to Instagram,

and there's, and I find it really, really hard to grow on TikTok. Now, I have 185,000 followers on TikTok. it's taken a lot of work to get there where, you know, I'll also say this, for people that are just starting as influencers, going to Instagram is practically impossible. Unless you have some fucking huge launch pad, like good luck. It is so hard to grow right now on Instagram. Interesting.

So the last thing that I want to touch on because we've got about five minutes here is the accessibility. And you've set it to your blue in the face. I've said it to you on a personal level outside of this till I'm blue in the face. Netflix has the accessibility. A lot of these apps have the accessibility. They have the algorithms.

I think that it's such a big thing. But here's what I'm going to bring up, okay? You know I'm a love is a love island guy. I'm a love is blind guy. You're a huge love. You're just a big reality TV. I am. But Love Island, especially Love Island, UK,

and that's what I'm going to focus on right now, crushes. And here's why I'm bringing it up. Because Bachelor is on Hulu. It's also on cable TV. So Love Island is on Hulu. It's not on Netflix. And Love Island crushes.

And Love Island Instagram account, the main account, has 3.6 million followers. And The Bachelor Instagram account has 373 followers. Wait. 373,000 followers. Bachelor Nation. No, there's no way. Oh, Bachelor Nation. But Bachelor ABC has over a million.

Oh, okay. I'm just going to read. I'm going to rewind. So Bachelor ABC is going to be from the show. Bachelor nations like this little group that they manage where they bring like 6.1.2 million. So it's still tripled up. Tripled up. It's still tripled up.

And they've had, what, 20 years? Exactly. And we only got nine seasons of Love Island. Now, from your experience, too, and one thing I thought was really interesting was her talking about when she left the country, how hard it was to access the Bachelor. do you have an internet do you feel like you have an international audience an international reach is that something that no no no no not at all not at all and what's interesting is i know gianini with blake we've talked about it she has a massive international reach because of that huge international reach which has led to a lot more followers i have you know i love my canadians 15 20% i don't know 10 to 20%

canadian the rest is u.s based and so yeah the bachelor hasn't been recreated in any other countries other than Canada, has it? Oh, it has. Yeah. I don't know where it stands today, but in the prime, it's been everywhere. Oh, yeah. Like there is a Bachelor, UK, a Bachelor of Brazil. Oh, yeah. Bachelor Japan. They had all that. I don't know if it still exists. It will have to follow up with that, but they had it all. You know what else is interesting is like even me on this podcast, what will happen in my head 40 times over is I'll think about every word I said about the Bachelor in this last hour and it'll keep me up at night. And why will it keep me up at because they're coming out of you.

Yeah. I'm seriously, it's like mafia. It's literally like, we're the money mafia. It's like, it's like just this power game. It's like the boss that always,

no matter what, you're five years gone from the show. They have this dangling impact that they can kind of mess with you. And I'm just like, I'm not saying these things out of, you know, resentment.

I'm saying these things because I want the fucking show to be better because it helps us all. I know you do. Like, you know, so, but it's so wild that even five years later when I'm talking about this, I'm like, well, they're going to, they're not going to talk to me. And the next time the producer says hello, they're going to be passive aggressive, like, oh, and that's, that's the fucking problem.

They should be hearing you owe. They should be having a roundtable discussion. Yeah, exactly. Bring in a hundred Bachelor alumni who have done well. Do a business focus group. Behind closed doors, no one could see. All right. So I'm going to leave you with this because now it's going to send you in a tizzy,

because you just talked to Bachelor data for an hour, pop culture data for an hour, and you talked about follower accounts, and I feel like you, of all people, have a very good sense of, you know, with the agency and followers and all these things. Season 8, Love Island, UK. So season nine just finished in March.

So we're going back one season to get a bigger picture of what it looks like. If I were to tell you that the top 10 contestants, so the people who came fifth, the couples who came in fifth, fourth, third, second, and first, if I were to tell you that over, that three of the top 10 have over a million followers,

would you be shocked? I'd be very shocked. Well, there's seven of them that have over a million. Seven of them? Okay, I mean, knowing nothing, my instincts are saying international accessibility. Seven of them have over a million, two of them have over

two million, and one of them has over three million followers. Oh my God. I do know in the UK, reality stars are everything. They're bigger than they're like bigger than celebrities. We're here they're like kind of looked down upon. Yes. So that's interesting.

Crazy. But also where do people stream Love Island? Everywhere. On Hulu. But on Hulu. Yes. Back to my point. Same as Bachelor.

So what are they doing that Bachelor can't do through Hulu in fucking why? Crazy. Bachel is always so late to the game. They're late to the podcast game. They had people making millions and millions of dollars from their show with Bachelors. Bachelor podcast and then they come late to the game and then they only, you know, there's a certain amount of people they'll pick from and those people control to what they can and can't say. They're just talking puppets for the show and they know it. And it's just unbelievable to me how

late they've been to the game with TikTok. They've been late to the game with Instagram. They've been late to the game with everything. And this is the best franchise. And I say it because I love the show and I love the franchise. It's changed my life. And I want them to do better because if they do, it helps all of us. All right. I'm going to take a break there. One thing we didn't talk about. We did get a cool podcast idea from Natalie, who DM'd us. She said that there was a controversy with Marshall asking for the ring back, and Jackie said she's going to keep it. In Bachelor Nation, you have to have the ring for at least a year, otherwise you have to give it back to the show, and then you also have to give Delane the first red refusal to buy

it back. So one day, we're going to have on Marshall. I've had that pleasure of being able to speak to Marshall. He is a great, great guy, and we're going to have him on, hopefully, and we'll get some of those answers. So thank you guys for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets. David, anything you want to leave us with? I just want to thank Susanna for coming on. And she is a pure example of taking every trading secret we've ever had on all of our guests and applying it to her life. She's created something amazing out of truly nothing. She's the best. Thank you for coming on. She's the best. And go look into her story where she was working for a school system, had an idea and passion, pursued it, now has her own business, does her own thing, and makes a whole lot more

money than she would have staying in the education system. David, thank you for being on this episode, Trane Secrets. Hopefully you guys felt this was an episode you couldn't afford to miss and make sure to tune in next Monday. It is going to be a next level show. Please note that episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.