Trading Secrets - Nick Viall breaks down the numbers, millions, business and strategy behind the biggest podcast to come from Bachelor Nation. Media company, being in the spotlight and more.

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

This week, Jason is joined by one of Bachelor Nation’s most well-known personalities and podcast king, Nick Viall! If you watch reality TV, then you’re probably seen Nick come across your TV screen over the last decade between appearances on The Bachelorette twice, Bachelor in Paradise, The Bachelor, Dancing With The Stars, Special Forces, and the Masked Singer. However, Nick has leveraged his reality TV fame into numerous lucrative business endeavors, including establishing one of the top culture podcasts in the world. The Viall Files has over 150 million downloads in the last five years. Most recently, Nick announced that he has founded his own media company, Envy Media and audio first lifestyle company focused on pop culture and relationship themed shows. Nick gives insight to how Special Forces differentiates from other reality shows, not focusing on what you cannot control, how he protects his mental health, the benefits of being in the public eye, the importance of having women voices involved with the podcast, how he landed the exclusive podcast with Gypsy Rose Blanchard, and how creating a comfortable environment for guests has been critical to the success of his shows.Nick also reveals what podcasts he considers competition, how Katie and Dana ended up being the first podcast he’s producing that he is not on, how the podcasting industry is changing, what he hopes is inspiring to others, why he reinvests in his businesses, what his relationship with Bachelor Nation is like, and comparing his time on Special Forces to other reality shows he has been on. When did he first work with a publicist?  Did he have to pay to get Gypsy Rose on the podcast? Who is his dream guest? What is he hoping to accomplish in 2024? Nick reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!  Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: Declan O’Connell Guest: Nick Viall Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial  Abilitie has published The 12-Week MBA, a mini MBA curriculum for aspiring and rising business leaders. Buy the book and enroll in the 12-week program using code TRADINGSECRETS for $200 off your tuition.  https://www.abilitie.com/12weekmba

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets and welcome to the pre-market trading segment where I'm going to tell you a little bit about what you can expect from today's guest, an update from the market, and of course something from my personal life. Now, this is a longer episode, so I'm going to make this intro brief. We have Nick Vial on. He is going to talk all about the growth of his podcast, how he gets the guests he gets. I ask him, how much do you make per episode? How much do you make per year?

How much do you invest back into the podcast? What are your top revenue sources? How many downloads do you get all the trading secrets in the Nick Vial playbook? He's pressed. He's asked. Let's see what he'll share. A little update you need to know about the market. Bitcoin. Bitcoin can now be traded via an ETF. They're finally here. So you don't have to go through crypto mania wallets and all this

crazy stuff to buy Bitcoin. You can get publicly traded Bitcoin via an ETF. Here are a few ETFs that you can look at. I-BIT, that's I-Share's Bitcoin Trust. Fidelity-wise, origin Bitcoin Fund, which is the ticker FBTC, Bitwise, Bitcoin, ETF, BITB. And there are some others that are out there too. But the biggest thing you want to know with ETFs, how you decide between the ETFs, is you just want to really look at the expense ratio. What are they charging you? And what an ETF is, it's an exchange, traded, fund, and essentially what it does is it will mirror the performance of Bitcoin. That's new. That's exciting. Now, this happened to gold. a long time ago. You think about gold, where'd you buy it? The commodities market, right? You can now

buy gold, of course, through an ETF. When it was announced that gold had an ETF, all the price of gold went down. And we're seeing that with Bitcoin, actually, the price of Bitcoin is going down. But I think given the availability of Bitcoin now through an ETF, overall, this is a good thing for Bitcoin if you are bullish on it. A little update for my personal life. A lot of action back in Nashville this week, excited to be here. I'm going to be in D.C. for a quick opportunity with Smoothie King, of all things. And then I will go to IHeart Radio, Pebble Beach with Chris Harrison, Wells Adams, Justin, Ben Higgins, and more.

I'll be flying from there to Tampa Bay for the vice president of our business development and the agency rewired talent management's wedding. And then from there, we'll be going to Beaver Creek with some friends for a business. a two-day ski trip, and then I'm coming home, and then I'm going to the one and only the Super Bowl. We have some exciting work stuff going on out there. I'll share more about that soon. But this episode, Nick Vial, you're going to be blown away. I love what he says. Whether you love him, whether you hate him, he just needs you to listen to him. I can tell you this. You will walk away with tons of tips and tricks of how to change your approach to business

finances, and career. This is an episode you can't afford to miss, and don't forget, I'll tell you what, this is a good one to watch. You can go to YouTube and follow us Trading Secrets Podcast by Jason Tardick on YouTube. You can check out our Instagram page, Trading Secrets Podcast, or join our Facebook group, Trading Secrets Podcast. But enough of that, let's get into the episode with the one-the-only Nick Fial. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets.

Today, we are joined by one of Bachelor nation's most well-known personalities. And now, I'm saying it, Nick, the podcast king, Nick Fial. If you watch reality TV, then you've probably seen Nick come across your TV screen over the last decade. Between appearances on The Bachelorette, twice, Bachelor in Paradise, The Bachelor, Dancing with the Stars, Special Forces, the Mask Singer, or some other shows out there, Nick has done it all. More notably, however, Nick has leveraged his reality TV fame into Neckler. numerous lucrative business endeavors, including establishing one of the top culture podcasts in the world The Vile Files that has over 150 million downloads in the last five years. Most recently, Nick announced that he has founded his own media company, NV Media,

an audio-first lifestyle company focused on pop culture and relationship-themed shows. Today, we are going to talk all about the evolution of the Vile Files, what led to him starting his own media company and brand, and where he sees his career going in years to come. Nick, this is the second time. Welcome back to Trading Secrets. Good to be with you, bud. It's been two years since we last had you on it, actually. Two years. Time flies, huh? Okay, here's what I want to start with you. Just saw you on special forces. You know, what did you think about just your overall, let's talk about your overall character? Nick what did you think about your character shown on special forces? Like your overall...

You're talking about my character? Not like your character is foundation. The character we saw of Nick on special forces. I thought it was great. Yeah, I thought it was great, too. I don't think, I mean, special forces is a different animal than, say, most reality shows, like, you don't, I mean, there is always an edit just because they're such limited on time. But I don't think that show is really going out of their way

to try to edit out specific characters in storylines to agree that, say, maybe The Bachelor of Love is blind is. The environment is so intense. and the structure of the show, you know, is so intense on its own that the show kind of takes care of itself in terms of the drama that is unfold. In fact, if it was a two-hour show, I think they could have edited in more storylines and more, you know, behind the scene, not so much behind the scenes, but things that kind of went on in between all the intense shit that they had us do. But as far as how I came across, I was, yeah, I was very pleased. I mean,

I was pleased with the outcome and how I performed. And, yeah, I was, I was happy with how came off and I was just more than anything was just kind of happy that I got the opportunity to do that I love it I love it okay so I asked because last time you were on the show and it's great that you're wearing the Green Bay Packers shirt right now because you made a connection to the Green Bay Packers when we talked about branding I forgot this specific name but you said that there was an analyst that you can't stand oh you can't stand Colin Cahard Colin yeah and he's a critic of Aaron Rogers when Aaron Rogers, of course, was on the Packers. But your overall branding talk about that was,

no matter what, I tune into his show to listen to what he has to say. And you brought it back to yourself saying, people can love me, people can hate me, but all I need is them to tune into the show. And that's it. You need him to care. So I want to ask you this, though,

because when I saw you on special forces, I had this feeling of, like, emotion for you, I felt for you, I saw a vulnerability side. I also saw like a man that has mental strength at a level that I had never been exposed to. So that was like that Nick. Then we see the podcast Nick. Then we see we know the Bachelor Nick.

Now we're seeing this like caring soft soon to be father Nick. There's like all these different nicks out there. And I think a lot of people have all these different perceptions of you. And you mentioned last show. You just want people to tune in and care what you have to say. if someone said like who is nick through all these different things that people are saying who is nick what is the nick that we tune into well i guess on some levels it's everything you've gotten to see but i mean like some loaded like who is me no but i'm just curious because

like do you when people say like you've you've probably heard it all from you're arrogant to you're the sweetest guy in the world like sure how i mean i guess it can be all the things I think more than anything I am someone who you know cares very much about my character and who I am as a person and I care very much about what my I guess my my inner circle thinks of me yeah to the agree that I it's important to me to surround myself with people who can hold me accountable and so obviously their their opinions matter to me and you know I am someone who obviously is passionate about what I do and works very hard at what I do and I do and I do

have, I think, a lot of different, I guess, layers, so to speak, you know, I can be all those things. But, yeah, I mean, I guess depending on what medium you consume me. Yeah. Okay. Might change your perception of me, right? Because I, sometimes I am going to be subject to the medium that I'm a part of, you know, like if I do, like, I'm not ever going to overly edit myself. And I'm not going to try to control what I can't control, which, you know, I'm a big believer in controlling. what you can control. So the opposite, I try not to waste too much my energy trying to control things that are outside of my control. And reality TV, if you're going to do that, there are a lot of aspects of that that are outside of your control, that you simply just have to accept those

aspects, things like, you know, you can't edit the show, that you can't control what people are going to do around you. And to that end, how you come across, you know, might be subject to things outside of your control. And so I don't, when I do those things or do those shows, I've always been someone who hasn't spent a lot of time editing myself down out of fear of the things I can't control. And that has, and sometimes worked against me. So, you know, right? And that certainly has affected how people have perceived me, but it hasn't been a primary concern of mine to try to go out of my way to make sure that, you know, if you're going to put yourself out there on any type of major public platform and and put in a microphone, so to speak, or giving people access to

consume you. I mean, it's just a waste of energy trying to be liked and loved by everyone. Yeah. I mean, I like to be loved as much as the next person, but it's also not really any of my business what, you know, people outside my circle think of me. I mean, of course, I'd love to be liked and love to be loved, but it's more important to, you know, just be authentic and not to sound cliche, but like, yeah, just because I can control that and, and at least I'm consistent I do think more than anything, especially on reality TV or just being in the public eye, the thing that hurts people the most, I think, is inconsistency. Just look at Batchernation.

Everyone loves a fall from grace. Everyone loves it when, like, the likable character does the shitty thing and then we can hate on them, right? Because they're showing this inconsistency. I think over time what I have shown with people is a consistency to be myself. And I think that, if anything, whether they like or dislike me, I think people have come to respect that about me. Yeah. I think a lot of people that do well with business endeavors after the show, you can connect polarizing to a lot of those people for the good or bad, but it drives their business, right? It's part of the equation. Sure. That's only just because Bachelor Nation specifically

washes down their characters. And if you basically have an opinion about anything, you're subjecting yourself to criticism. If you take a stand about anything. Yeah. Bachelor Nation, and look at it. I mean, the most popular people are the, quote, unquote, the least problematic. And the least problematic are the people who really are the most quiet people who don't really say anything about anyone. You don't really know who they are. But those might be the most likable people. But that doesn't mean they're the most successful people. Correct. Right. Right. Yeah. And so I just on the word polarizing, I think it's a bit of an eye role when it comes to that, it's a bachelor nation. Okay. You know, in terms of, you know,

look at real polarizing characters out in the media, and I don't think anyone from bachelor nation oh no no no you're right exactly when you compare it to bachelor nation i'm not connecting you know your brand at all to anyone in those worlds but i think the idea though is that a lot of people get a lot of love and get a lot of hate i think at the end of the day it's about how how you can do with it and for some reason you know what i'm impressed by nick is that when people do give you that feedback i've never seen you once i don't know i haven't seen you bite into it. I haven't seen you step into it. I just see you always continuing to be yourself and not feeding it. Yeah, I just, there's no greater power, especially nowadays, than the power

to ignore things or people. Yeah. Okay. And does it, then the last question I have on this, because I'm just fascinated by, does negative criticism impact you in any way personally that you get from your business? Of course. I mean, I'm not like, I'm a human being. Yeah. And so like, I can, I can be affected by negative criticism. I just do a pretty good job of policing myself. And I have tools in place to, again, to, again, protect my own mental health. And if things do break through, yeah, I mean, I can have a bad day. But I always, again, try to think big picture, you know?

Like, I'm running a real company now and I have multiple employees. And so I just don't have time to think of. small problems yeah like what's someone saying on you know i'm i'm every day i'm i'm tackling more pressing issues right and so unless there's an issue that's bigger than a and then a problem i'm tackling in any given day i just don't have time to worry about you know some petty petty petty things i really i really just don't it just becomes more of a kind of like a math equation of my head is this problem being this problem no then yeah if it is let me know And if you guys haven't listened to the first episode ever with Nick,

go back and listen to it. It was two years ago. But Nick, one of the things you said on that episode was that after Paradise, you moved to L.A., and you were living off $50,000. You think about the way your life... I mean, it was a little less than that.

My savings? Yeah. Yeah. A little bit less than that. Little less than that. Yeah. But then you think about... But just like that was like a set amount.

That was a set amount. Yeah, I was making that. I was making nothing at the time. Absolutely nothing, right? So you had somebody to live off. You think about what you've done since then. We'll get into some of your top revenue streams. But when you think that you weren't making it money,

you had $50,000 in the bank. And now your podcast, as of today, is streaming number five in the world based on this Gypsy Rose episode. And you think about the financial success you've had, what do you think has been the number one trading secret that has got you from there to hear today? Just consistency in prioritizing my business

and treating it like a business. you know yeah i think that's the biggest thing and just reinvest you know reinvest back into my business i currently have eight employees i've eight employees eight employees and they're all and in your podcast they're all working for your podcasts or they're part of your overall empire they work for me they work for their podcast is they're yeah they work for envy media okay got it we're gonna jump into envy media in a second let's talk about this we're on the PR route one thing i think you've done i do think consistency's been good but for so many years since 2001 16, you are always relevant in the news. You just are. And my question is, do you think that has to do

with specific strategies or tactics to make no effort to be relevant in the news? Really? None. It's not even a thought of mine. But I am doing things with my show, I guess that keep me relevant. In fact, more times than not with my team, like my team is aware of like clickbait. Yeah. Right. They understand that like to be mindful of things that are quotable yeah so to speak yeah so every once in a while they'll edit out something that i just don't want to feel like i want to deal with like an annoying headline right is i develop my show more and more i mean you know i've been lucky enough to have incredibly relevant guests and and you know that you know they're driving the headlines for my show and you know and i guess on some level like my relationship status is a bit of interest to people or at

least pop culture, you know, outlets. And so, you know, me meeting Natalie, getting engaged in Natalie, getting pregnant with Natalie, certainly those have been headlines, but I don't read my press. I don't, like, I'm not aware of my, you know, I think my manager has my Google alerts on. Yeah. But again, when I spoke early about protecting my mental health, like, that's how I do it. And I've had lots of conversations with lots of people in Batonation about protecting their mental health or lack thereof and how they always think you know they're referencing reading reddit and reading their comments and you know reading their press and they all act like it's fun or they don't care it doesn't affect them and it it does and again you are editing yourself

when you do that you are you are taking and seeking the advice of people you don't know never heard of don't know their qualifications their credentials you don't even know if they're real and yet you are listening to their their ideas and perception about you and that will affect how you go about your life. You're then inherently, whether you're doing it consciously or subconsciously, you're then editing

the version of yourself to adhere to them. That's interesting. You're doing what they think you should do. Yep, and that definitely impacts their career direction. They're on Reddit talking about you. I don't know if you want to take

life or business advice from those people, but yet when you are reading those comments to the degree in which many people do, you are consciously or subconsciously, giving them power and access into how you make decisions for yourself and your life. And I don't think that usually turns out beneficial. All right. Well, what about this? The idea of, so we talked a little bit about press, you said, you had mentioned like, that is nothing that you've sought out.

It seeks you out. But then the press definitely helps, I think, run the engine. There's this overarching theme of like all press is good press. What's your business take on that with someone that's in the press often? And today, you're everywhere. This moment right now, you're everywhere in the news. It's going well, yeah. But I guess I agree with it in principle. Okay. Especially if you can have the tools in place to protect your mental health.

Okay. I don't, again, I'm unaware that I am in hanging in news today. Right. The Gypsy Rose episode dropped today. That was a big deal for us. It was a big exclusive for us. And obviously, that's, I went in today knowing there would be a lot of eyes on my show. And then how we conducted the interview in itself, that wasn't, that's, that's important to me.

But that, that's, that's all I know. Okay. You talked about reinvesting. Last question I got on PR, have you found that investing in PR has been beneficial to the overall return of your businesses? Absolutely. But it's all about timing too, you know, like publicists are very expensive, as I'm sure you know. Oh yeah. So you have to make sure you have something to promote. You know, I had a publicist. My first time experiencing, my first experience working with the publicist was during Dancing with the Stars.

They recommend it as it works and the longer you are on Dancing with the Stars the more you make. And so, you know, you can pretty quickly like figure out the ROI there. But after I was done with Dancing with the Stars, I quickly got rid of my publicist because I didn't have anything active to promote.

You know, and so a lot of people, but will hold on to publicists for the clout. Sure. To say they have one. A publicist will also get you invited to a lot of the relevant parties. Yeah. That wasn't a priority for me, you know. And so I went without a publicist for, I don't know, a couple years.

And it wasn't until Vial Files started, got created. And then I had some success that I looked into getting a publicist. I think I was two years into my show exists. I just had my, you know, this week was our fifth year. anniversary from above so i didn't get a publicist for the show until two years into the show okay and at that point i thought the show was successful enough that it could justify the cost the cost and you know the primary focus was always to you know promote the show and then promote me as the host of the show got so yeah it's been incredibly beneficial you know and then when i wrote my book

obviously like you know that there was plenty for them to promote there so i had to make sure i had to give them something to promote. I had to give them something to work with. Okay. To see the return. To see the return. Talk about the cost. What do you pay for a publicist on average? Would you say? It's in the ballpark of 5K? Yeah, 5K a month, right? So then you're looking for them to get the press out there that's going to generate enough return. I think your overall take is you have to have business momentum and something big to be promoting to get the answer. Yeah. Especially in Hollywood, it's okay to say to yourself or anyone who's asking, it's not the right time for me right now. Yeah. Okay. Because if, you know, a lot of people who go on reality TV, you know, there's a pressure of, like,

keeping the momentum going. But if the only thing you have to promote is the fact that you on reality TV, I can tell you right now, you don't need a publicist. You don't need a publicist to be messy. Yeah. You know, like, I don't need a publicist to go on my show and give an opinion that, you know, e-news or anyone else might find to be, you know, scandalous in nature, even though I don't, you know, and then make a headline about it. That's, that's, that's, that's not why you need a publicist. And so anyone reality TV, if they're willing to speak their mind, you know, and be a little messy, you have a chance to get some kind of press.

You don't need a publicist for that. Yep. You know. And so it's just kind of knowing the difference. And, and, yeah. That's cool. One thing you and I talked about at, I think it was Tyler Cameron's non-for-profit, where you asked me, like, with some of the stuff I'm doing, what's my overall, like, goal with it.

And what I told you was financial freedom. I want to be able to build enough with what I have. to then create enough cash inflow to reinvest into other things, to just give me financial freedom. I then asked the same question back to you. And your response was something of the nature and I was I was a bit surprised by it, but you're like, listen, I don't care if one more person my entire life recognizes me. I don't care. I just want to build businesses and build like financial wealth for my family and continue to do big things. Talk to me a little bit about that. Well, I like your answer to financial freedom. Being a public figure is a cost

of doing business at this point. Okay, tell me more about that. Well, because, like, there are benefits to being in the public. There's a lot of that having attention. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of headache that comes with it, too. I have found to enjoy more aspects of just being successful in business than being successful in fame.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, in the limelight, I guess. It's just a headache, you know? Yeah. It's just, like, it's just, it's just a headache. You know, it doesn't really bring you any real happiness or value. Sure. It can bring you access and attention.

It can help be a way to promote the things that you're doing. Again, it's a necessary evil. Yeah. But, you know, like, you just, you know, anytime you bring attention to yourself, you bring attention to yourself. And, you know, not all attention is good attention, you know. I guess I'm just aware of that. And I just, you know, I've been lucky enough in my life,

especially in the public space that like, you know, I don't know, it doesn't really, you know, when you're The Bachelor, you have a nice little moment. Yeah. You know, and you get incredible access and it's a really cool feeling to be the quote unquote,

it person for a moment and the center of attention for a moment. But it's hectic. It's a lot. It's a lot to deal with. And it's nerve-wracking and it can be stressful and you're constantly worried about everything

and you literally have a microscope on you and it's stressful, especially nowadays, where everyone's picking apart everything you're doing and saying and things like that. And it's a lot. It's not something I'm actively seeking, but I understand that I've chose to operate in

the space and that it comes with the territory. And it certainly helps me get to the places I'm trying to go, especially with my show. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I just want to, especially now that I'm an expecting father, just I just want to support the people I love and be able to, you know, hang out with them. That's it. And relax. I love it. I think it's put one of your secret sauces that people, don't know about is the fact that that's not what you're chasing. You're focused on the business. You're consistent. You're disciplined. And I think most people that you probably interview that you sit across the table from are not that way. And you've interviewed some big people in the reality

TV space. You've also talked to a lot. Like, do you think that most people kind of get stuck in the business perspective from just chasing to always be in the limelight as opposed to doing it with the solid, thoughtful? I can't really speak because I haven't had those types of conversations with those people. So I think it'd be unfair to me to cast any type of judgment on what I think drives them that way. Fair. But I don't think a lot of people have taken the approach

I have taken. Yeah, well, that's just a guess. Yeah, that's for sure. And again, like, I think, just like we talked about earlier for if, you know, you can't go on reality TV

and have, you know, Joe Mowbelly and I have talked about this. Like, you know, there's a level of, a level of narcissism in all of us who have gone on this show. Like, you can't, you'll obviously like attention to some degree.

Yeah. If you've chosen a part, a life in public life. And so, you know, as I say all this, I'm acknowledging that I also like, there's a part of me that's always liked attention and enjoyed attention, but like, now that I'm in this place, I'm not like I've accepted as a necessary evil. But I guess what I'm saying is, like, for all the people who are reading their, you know, have their Google alerts on, are reading Reddits about themselves, just reading any, reading their comments, you know, on a regular basis. Like, obviously that, why are they doing that? They're carrying very much of what people have to say, and it's validating them. And I think in some way that's letting them know what they think they should or shouldn't be doing or something.

But that, to me, hasn't been the recipe for success. Okay. Well, let's get into a little bit of your success because you have had a lot of it. So, 2024, top three revenue streams with the businesses you have. What do you think the top three business revenue streams are for you? My show would be number one. Okay. I guess in social media.

Does social media come even close to it? what you grows from your show? I don't think so. Interesting. Like one-fifth, one-tenth? To be totally honest, like, that's a micro question. And I'm thinking about macro problems. So like the ratio in terms of, you know.

You're so far from focused on creating content for the purpose of monetization, that thinking about what percentage Instagram revenue is, to your beast is so minute. to you. It's not even a thought that crosses your life. I don't care about it. Interesting. So if that being said, that's number two, obviously podcast is a clear number one and drives, would you say, almost 100% of your day-to-day routine. Yes. Okay. My day-to-day routine. Your day-to-day routine. That's my focus. Everything off of that is social media.

You know, again, my focus is the show and the media company. Yep. And everything rolls up to that. Okay. So let's go into some of the moves you've made. You were with cast media. You signed with them That's really, you can correct me if I'm wrong from a perception, that's really where the show went next level, went from like good to great. But you left cast media. Tell me a little bit about what made you leave and go in your own direction. Yeah, I mean, you know, the show, I started my show in 2019 in January,

and, you know, we had some early success right away. Which is funny, though. I had a conversation with someone recently just trying to give them perspective on starting a podcast and what they could expect and things like that. but my show had early success okay um and it still took us nine months to generate 25,000 worth of revenue for the show. Nine months. Yeah. Interesting. In 2019. And our show always did well, you know, and can I ask a question after that? Sure. 25,000 and nine months. Is it fair to say you probably in most episodes make more than 25,000 per episode or per week? I mean, I'm not really

sharing that stuff. Okay. I got to ask though. I got to do my job. But we're doing, yeah, no, yeah. And we're doing very well. Okay. Well, even like, there was a, like, after the, in the 10th month, I know we, we generated $25,000 in the 10th month. Okay. I'll say that. Yeah. But it took nine months to get even the 25.

And in the 10th month, we did 25 in one month. It was like, you know, it took nine months for our show to really, I think, you know, proof of concept, male host, female audience. I think it took a while for people to, for advertisers at least to, you know, does this show work? Was that part of the reason to getting some of your female? co-host. I've always had women voices on the show. Oh, you had since day one. I mean, there's always been rotating, but it's, yeah. And, you know, as a, having a women's audience, it's always important for me to have women voices. Most of our guests are women. Yeah. That's always been the case. But, but we had women's voices since the beginning. Okay. Cass media,

though, the reason for the departure when you think about going with talking about the business financial move there. It really just came down to at the end of the day, the company I'm with Lipson, now they just made a better offer. Okay. Really came down to that. That being said, I think it was just time for me to move on from cast. You know, they've been in the news a lot, but I will just say, like, for all their faults, I guess I was able to create a successful show with them.

Yeah. I've always been, like, you know, I've always been the main producer on it. Yeah. I own the show. It's my show. No one cares about your business more than you. obviously that is a very true statement sure and but they it was their studios they had a team they had their editors they they packaged they they ran post with their people and so

the first two years I didn't have any employees oh you know and then I hired my first two as like social media assistance and they have grown one still with me yeah and then obviously We've grown a lot since then. But so the real answer is I just got a better deal. Cool. But part of that is I also wanted to produce my own show and do my own studio and have my freedom. When I was going through my last contract, that wasn't necessarily a must.

You know, like if they're, you know, the business model, there's more and more companies like, you know, your dear medias, right? They do a lot of production of their shows. And there's other companies that do absolutely none. and I'm with a company. It has nothing. They just sell their shows. Okay.

So when you say a better deal, though, and I know you're not going to get into the numbers of the deal, but just the structure is the two things you're negotiating, right, is a guarantee and then a percentage split. Correct. So if you get better both of those, then you would go. Sure. Yeah.

Got it. Okay. Yeah. I also thought that, you know, I had only been with Cass at that point, and as someone who has background sales, I'm aware that not every sales person has created equal. Correct.

And I was curious about the quality of other sales teams. teams. Okay. And I've, my thoughts were proven to be correct where I'm very happy with where I'm at right now and the sales team that they have. Message heard. And yeah, it's been a really great partnership. And yeah, so now I, I produce everything on my own. And so that was, that was a goal and something I wanted to do. And I used this kind of new relationship with Libson to kind of be the catalyst that drove me to produce my show entirely. So I have my own studios. I run my own studios. And that gave me the freedom to then start the media company and expand because I'm actually, you know, I have the bones in place of doing my own show, my own team, my own studios. We have

our own post-production process. We have our own process. And now we're just implementing that process that we've developed as a team into creating other shows. I think it's genius. You're going to set yourself up for massive success. I think about like, you know, what the potential exit is from Dear Media since what they've done. They've built a huge company and a great valuation. Sounds like you're on the path to do just that. But is there any bit of conflict of interest there if you're with a network and then your production company is creating a show under your network. Aren't you technically competing with the network that you're signed to? No. I mean, they're, they're part of it. Got it. Okay. So it's a

They're still my sales arm. Got it. Okay. Understood. So, okay. Cool. They're theirs, too. All right.

I'm giving them more things to sell. Okay. Perfectly said. And if you guys remember in the last episode, Nick started his career at Salesforce.com. And if you can make it in selling at Salesforce.com, you can sell anything anywhere. So go check that episode out. We're on the podcast topic. There's really only one question to ask you here, Nick.

We could have had this episode one hour and one minute with this question. and this topic, Gypsy Rose. Everyone's talking about it. People are blowing up. I said to people, give me questions for Nick. Every question was about Gypsy Rose. So the first question I got you regarding Gypsy Rose, did you have to pay Gypsy Rose to come on your podcast?

I did not, no. You did not. So then the second question for Gypsy Rose is, how did you land the most wanted person? You're competing, by the way, against Fox News, CNN, ABC, Good Morning America. She chooses to do the long-form interview with you. How'd you do it? Correct you, I wouldn't say I'm competing against the ones you just

listed. But you got an exclusive longer than they did. I got the exclusive podcast. Okay. Which to me matters. Oh yeah. Matters. She did GMA. She did the view prior to doing the podcast. The podcast. Okay. I mean, obviously, had she did mine first before she ever spoke to anyone, that would have been massive. But it was still incredibly massive for my show to land Gypsy's first podcast. Because, you the podcast medium long form is a completely different platform than a quick snippet than a quick snippet it's as i always tell my guess it's your opportunity to like have my audience kind of sit in the room with you be a friend to like you know have a conversation that they don't get to have or see in these these quick sound bitey type of interviews that are always highly edited and fit into some sort of

like storyline that they've already predetermined and sure and then podcast is very different you know we can go to the heavy questions and the like questions and things like that uh How did I get them? I have a great team. I invest in, I have bookers who work for my, for my show. And, you know, it's just, and it was then that secured Gypsy. So, shout out to Claire and her team. How long ago did they?

So the interview came out today. I knew that I was going to get the Gypsy Rose interview when she was still in prison. Wow. Yeah. Interesting. So it was like the week prior to her release. Do you know who you were competing against other shows they were considering giving the exclusive to? I'm showing everyone.

I'm assuming everyone, yeah, who wouldn't have wanted her. Yeah, but I guess the question is who has the bookers that have the ability to get in front of her while she's in prison? I don't, I mean, I do know, I don't know for sure. I'd only be speculating, but I feel like I can confidently speculate that anyone would have said yes. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, I agree with that. I think I just have a great team, you know, and I do think we have been successful in getting some good guests. To that end, we've also been successful in getting timely guests with timely stories.

And I think that matters. And I think we've proven as a show to be able to handle and deliver on those types of interviews. And I think what's also been good for our show is that we have invested in our dramatic sizzles. Yeah, that was something that I just decided I wanted to do with the team. And I really emphasize, I want like, we, let's, we want movie quality sizzle reels. Yeah. You know, we're developing these, you know, we're these episodes, we're delivering on these stories. And also, let's, let's have some fun.

You know, let's have some fun with the content we're putting out. And so we've made some really cool sizzles. I have a great team, you know, Allie, who my employee's been with me the longest. She does most of the sizzles. Usually I'm kind of giving her, you know, a vision that I'm looking for. And she executes with perfection most of the time. And I think to that end, you know, it's like. like, I think we've also created a little bit of a culture with potential guests who

see our sizzles and kind of envision themselves, you know, maybe being a part of a sizzle one day. Yeah. And I think that's definitely helped. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the genius things too, one also I want to, I want to acknowledge us that one word I keep hearing over and over is invest and reinvest. And I think people really need to take that into their lives, into whatever businesses they have into their brand, even if it's just building your resume, you have to continue to invest and reinvest. Clearly, Nick, you've done that. You have these sizzles that are unbelievable. But I also think the concept, the concept of when like breakups happen, and so I've learned this, obviously the attention's at highest point because everyone

wants to know what happens. So the people, a lot of people that want to be on your show are at that moment in the news at the highest point, you also at times want to speak your truth and you need a platform to do it and they know they can do it in a safe, credible way with you. What a genius like machine that'll never stop giving. I hope so. Do you agree with that model has been like part of the driving force? Breakups create relevance. Relevance create downloads. People need a place to speak about it and you've created the credible source to do it. I don't think I like thought of it and like that kind of path, so to speak. But again, I mean, as a podcast,

you know, everyone who has a podcast at some level is a storyteller. Sure. Yeah. We have different types of shows. We have our Ask Nix. We have a re-recap episodes. And then we have our going deepers.

And the going deepers are more interview-driven episodes. And whoever comes on, especially if they have a story, is, again, telling you that story. And I want to give them that platform to tell theirs. And create a safe space. Well, at the same time, be willing to ask the relevant, tough questions but at the same time I'm I'm not trying to gotcha anyone yeah you know like it's my job I think as a podcast also at least that's how I I approach it is to make me make my guests the most

comfortable so that they can be the most honest and vulnerable because a guest who comes in on feeling comfortable is they're going to want to sit down they're going to want to open up they're going to be like you know what what you know what else you know let me tell you you know and that's why like we do longer interviews and the first you know 10 15 minutes are you know like gypsy for example like as I shit I was nervous you know interviewing her yeah just the you could feel the you know the you know the moment yeah totally and you know I asked her she was nervous she said no and I believe her she's like a champ but I will say like after the first 10 minutes you know you're feeling each other out yeah you know I didn't have a rapport with gypsy she didn't know me

vice versa uh she didn't tell me she watched my season of the bachelor that's pretty cool there you go and but you know 20 minutes in then she's opening up and she's cracking jokes about like trying to hook up with her husband Ryan the night before and getting turned down by him, you know, and so it's just creating that atmosphere and that rapport and that trust. And yeah, you just, you got, you know, and it's always going to work best when they feel comfortable. Okay. And I'm always prepping my guess too.

Like, you know, I'm not, again, like, for the most part, I'll tell you the questions that I'm going to ask, you know, it's the stories that people want to know. Yeah. I'll just, you know, if a question comes up that's relevant for me to ask just to qualify what you're saying, I'll ask it, but it's not my job to play, I guess, judge, so to speak. That's my audience's, yeah. It's my, you know, I'll let them judge.

Yeah. You know, they can judge what they think of Gypsy and Ryan, their relationship and whether they think Gypsy is contrite. I mean, I shared my opinion, but like, it was my job to ask her the questions to get her to speak and you, and whoever listens gets to spend an hour and a half plus with me, Gypsy and Ryan,

to listen, be in the room with us, you hear every little word spoken, you know, can hear any pauses or, you know, her tone, her flow, and they can judge for themselves, whether they agree or disagree or, you know, Clayton in those, and those types of interviews. So I just want them to come in and be able to express themselves. Okay, have you ever been, have you ever had to pay someone to come on your show? No. Have you ever had someone ask you to pay them to Sure. I mean, I've helped with travel a little bit, but other than that, no. I mean, yeah, I mean, listen, I think it goes, the benefits goes both ways. I mean, oh, of course. Yeah, look at the total of eyeballs.

Yeah, and we've created a show where I think we're giving people an opportunity to get their story out. Okay. And they also know that, you know, they're going to have the podcast, and then they're going to have a team of people pumping out some incredible, you know, clips and sizzle reels and all those things. And if you want your story out, we promise we'll get it out. I love it. And so, again, I think we just created an environment that it makes sense for both parties. Cool. Can you share your top three episodes and like around downloads or is that the amount?

Well, our top episodes, I will say, have done over 2 mil. Over 2 million downloads. Yeah. Your top episode. Wow. Yeah. Holy shit. And you can't share though who those guests were?

Oh, I'm guessing where gypsy's gonna be Yeah, she'll be one of those Two million Raven from Love is Blind Okay And that was a big one I have to top of my head I do know

Greg and Victoria's was big When they came out for the first time Marshall from Love is Blind was big Black China was really big Few other ones but yeah Wow guys I don't think you realize How big 2 million is It is massive

I just have a couple A couple more podcast questions. Who do you consider your biggest competition at this point? Who is your Coke? Who's Pepsi? I don't know. I, you know, I embrace competition. I like the last, though.

Yeah, I've always respected what Alex is doing over at Call Our Daddy. That's for sure. You know, I really respect what she's doing. What I respect so much about what she's doing is that after her big, you know, $60 million dollar Spotify deal, which obviously was very publicly talked about, she also reinvented show and she's done it very successfully. And that's a credit to her drive and consistency and determination. She didn't, she's not someone who kind of rested on her laurels after getting a $60 million deal. You know, she started a show that had a co-host and it was, you know, very graphic

audio escapades of two young women. And now she is, you know, considered by a lot of people, kind of like the up-and-coming Oprah of certain interviews. And that's a credit to what she's doing and the guest she's getting so I wouldn't call it like every every podcast is my competition yeah you know every podcast is an opportunity for someone at any pop culture relationship podcast is my competition okay but I also like you know I think competition is great yeah I don't run from competition and when I see other shows who book good guests are up in the charts you know I will I might go fuck that was a good get man it's so funny you said that good get because what I remember when I got the Tinder swindler on one of the people.

Yeah. And I remember your exact text to me was good good, man. I was like, wow. I like to see what other people are doing. It keeps me sharp. It keeps me motivated. So I don't run from competition. And I like to compliment people who, oh, I see having success and doing it well.

And again, that just keeps me sharp. You know, competition hasn't stopped me once from doing what I've been able to do. I love it. And so I just think there's a, there's a, My biggest focus, like staying power, outlasting people, especially in Hollywood. Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

You know, that's a good one. You know, especially this town, it's very, it's a lot of pops, you know, very short-term, you know, spikes and then people disappear. And my big, my big focus is longevity. Longevity. You mentioned Oprah, quick rapid-fire question, one dream guest, who would it be? Taylor Swift, Harry Styles. Okay, that's a good one. All right, I want to transition to your media company.

We talked a little bit about it, envy. We saw that you're bringing one podcast on. Are you already in the process of recruiting other podcasts? How big do you expect this to be? What's the vision? It's early. I definitely want to do it right more than anything. So I have no expectations on myself in terms of how fast or how big I want to grow.

I'm not a big over-promise and under-delivered type of guy. I don't, I've done that before, and I don't like the feeling of, I like showing more than I like doing. I think Cady, signing Katie and Dana were perfect. And I thought the timing was perfect. And I'm really excited to have those two women be my, you know, host my first show that I'm producing that I'm not on. I have had conversations with other people.

So, yeah, there's active conversations. But I don't know if anything, something could happen in two weeks, something, you know, but most likely, you know, those things take time. So maybe in a month or two, I could, launch another one, but who knows? Maybe there's a world where I don't launch another one this year. It's possible. Unlikely, who knows? But I guess what I'm saying is, yeah, like I don't have any real expectations or then I really want to do it right. I've seen a lot of people attempt to do when I'm attempting to do and fail. Totally. And I think sometimes maybe they're just scaling too

fast or they don't know what they want it to be. And I want whatever I do, I want to have quality shows. And it's a competitive market out there. I mean, the podcast industry right now isn't growing. It's shrinking. And so I'm trying to grow in an industry that's currently shrinking. Right. So there's risks there. Can I ask you about that? Because you had said, you know, you've seen a lot of people come in and try and do what you're doing and fail. I think we've also both seen a lot of people try to start a podcast and soon thereafter fail. I'm curious from like a business leadership perspective, Dana and Katie. It could have been anyone. Almost anyone would have entertained a conversation to start a podcast. What is it about those two that you see them

making it in this space? Well, one, I mean, they got relevancy. You know, Katie's an OG cast member and arguably the hottest cable television show out there. Yep. And I think there are two women who have a lot to say and they're willing to say it. And I think more than anything, you need that, a willingness to be open and vulnerable with their life, your life, rather, because that's what they want to talk about.

You know, there are two women in their 30s who have had untraditional lives, I suppose, you could say that, whatever that means, and they're open and willing to talk about that, especially there's a lot of stigmas and stereotypes out there for everyone, but especially like single women in their 30s or people who want to reinvent themselves in their middle ages, especially women, you know, single women often get, are very, you know, if they're in a relationship that's toxic

and not serving them well, they'll stay in it much longer than they should for fear of going back out there and being single and being alone and what are their friends and family and society going to say about them? And for all the women out there who identify with that type of fear, I think Katie and Dana are two women that they can follow along with and have that support to have that courage to get out there and live vicariously through them.

And so I just think there are excellent choices in that regard. And I think, again, you just have to, as I told them, listen, you just have to figure out how to bring drama to your show. Interesting. You know, I don't care where. comes from it but it's got to come it's just got to you know people watch you know it's got to be entertaining it's got to be dramatic and dramatic can mean very different things sure you have to bring an element of drama what's next what are you you know though everyone's done the whole like

today we have the expert from yeah yeah you know the the the the attachment style expert the media the medium expert the food expert the you know that that that that that playbook and podcasting is worn down and dumb and it's been played out and you know we stopped doing that a long time ago yeah i mean it's like just the overall business landscape of american consumers you're you're talking about the dichotomy of education versus entertainment and if you look at every single forum entertainment is going to get the bigger dollar amounts it's going to get the bigger buzz it's going to get the people lining up look at taylor swift look at bioncé billion dollar plus shows versus an educational forum in america we want to

on entertainment. Entertainment is drama, and entertainment is always going to sell over education. The media company, though, envy, I'm just curious. From an investment standpoint, we talk a lot of dollars and cents here. Did you have to front any money to start it or was it an equity? No, everything is 100% funded by our success at the current moment. Wow. Damn, that's a good way to something we'd like to keep, but you know, and it's possible. All right, I got a little bit more time with you here, Nick, and I want to transition to my second book. It's called Talk Money to me. It's all about love and money. So I want to ask you a little bit about your relationship with love and money. Like with you and Natalie, do you guys have any

type of rules or systems as you manage your career finances that have seen a ton of success or that have seen a ton of failure? I don't think so. I mean, again, we're in a very fortunate position. I always think long term. Yep. You know, as a couple, we've had conversations about just acknowledging, you know, the type of success that we've had in the past couple years and recognizing that nothing's guaranteed in the future. Yep. And then, you know, so we are mindful of that. I've had the best year of my life financially for every, for the past, I don't know, every year's outperformer prior year. Every year since 2015. Okay. And so will 20203 be larger than 2022? Well, it was. It was. Yeah, that's what that.

2024. I mean, you know, you mentioned we did over, I've done over 150 million downloads in our five years. Yep. We did almost 60 million last year. 60 million. Wow. So we've had, you know, do the math there. And one out of our five years, we did over a third of our downloads. Holy shit. So, but yeah, we'll see. I'm, I'm, I'm hoping for 100 mil this year. 100 million downloads is the goal. And are you going to increase episode output to get? there or stay at the same right now no okay I don't foresee that happening okay there's only so many days left in the week we already do uh for once a month but I don't see that changing anytime maybe we'll see but right now no okay I'm gonna throw a number that's not the goal I don't think we have to do that to get there okay I'm gonna throw a number you could say above below or you can

say GFY GFY means yeah yeah I go like myself three million annual revenue for your podcast above below or GFY I'm gonna go GFY okay how about 1.5 million um I'm gonna go GFY. Okay, I'm getting a good GF Y. What did that? You know, last, last year, two years ago, I asked you. It was 750 and you said above. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess we could like it. Once you, once you get past that number, so to speak, I don't think there's any upside into, into sharing. Into sharing. Okay. That's good. All right. No, again, I think you're, you're getting into attracting the wrong attention conversations. Okay. I see. You get the attention from that comes. But I think it also is inspiration for a lot of people out there. I hope people feel very inspired by my success. I mean, listen, I'm kidding.

I've been, I've been able to do a lot of dream come true things with, you know, with what I've been able to accomplish with this show. First, you know, buying my grandfather's lakehouse back and bringing it back into my family. That's pretty good. Being able to support my parents, you know, in the twilight of their life. I mean, hopefully not the twilight, you know, but like, you know, they've given me so much of their life and sacrificed so much for their kids and to be able to, you know, to give back to them as incredibly rewarding feeling and to be able to support my family and do the things that I get to do. I feel very lucky and privileged I get to do that. I'm very grateful for that. So hopefully that is inspiring. That is inspiring. I think that's really inspiring. But I do think

if you look at the mechanics of business, there's a point where revenue comes in that you can afford to reinvest in people, especially like you have people that are living in L.A. Like you have a lot, seven, eight people. That's a big dollar amount you're paying. At 750K of revenue. it gets a little tighter when you have eight people on the payroll. You know what I mean? So they're also, I think, with all businesses. Well, here, I'll give you this number. I'm spending more than that number you asked last time.

Interesting. Okay, so there you go. And I think, let's use this as education. You're spending that amount to reinvest into your business. And so people out there that are starting businesses put that in perspective as you scale because you can't scale without reinvesting. I mean, you know, it's funny. My uncle who doesn't, he consults on the side.

he's fine, but he does my books for me, you know, because he can't, he has the time for, it doesn't need to do it, and it's just fun to have, like, someone in the family, you know, who you can trust, help with your money. Yeah. And I just remember as a kid, as a young entrepreneur, he always told me most entrepreneurs don't reinvest in their business. Yep. And a lot of people, you'll have the houses and the boats and all this shit and their businesses

don't grow and they eventually die. Yep. You know, and so that's just something I took to heart. Yeah. And, you know, I want to keep growing and I'm doing just fine in terms of the life I get to live with the things I get to do. Yeah. And I don't need to be driving a G-wagging. Yeah.

You know? For sure. And I'd rather invest that in another editor. Yep. I love it. And another, you know, or another qualified employee who can maybe bring in an idea or, you know, make a dramatic sizzle that, you know, entices another big name guest to want to do my show. I love it. It's, well, that's working.

a G-wagon when you've got a professional editor putting those types of clips out. It's incredible. A couple more things I've got to ask you. Talk about this revenue. This is educational. This is good drama. It's not bad drama. You could also tell me to GFY.

Do you have a take on pre-nubs? Yeah. I think they're great. Yeah. So you're pro-pranup then. Yeah. I mean, like marriage nowadays, it's not what it used to be. No.

And again, pre-nub with the idea that, you know, the assets you come into the marriage are your assets and things that you do together as a couple. Or can be the, you know, and there's exceptions to every rule, but like, if someone's against that on its own, then why? Yeah, I agree. Ask yourself why. I'm team pre-nump and team post-up, right? Because things happen after you're married and you can adjust things based on how those things work. Yeah, I mean, listen, I think everything's different.

Sure. Every relationship has a different situation. But again, the premise of a pre-nob being like everyone's, you know, what they come in. to the relationship is theirs, like if someone's making a big fight over that, there's other issues. There's other things going on. It was fascinating. We had Alex Bennett on the podcast. She married the owner of OKC, who's a billionaire. And they said, Alex, you're not signing a preempt. And she was like, uneducated on the topic. She's like, okay, sounds good. We'll get married. Well, they got divorced. And she ended up having to pay him because they tied all assets,

all, any type of return on investments in a trust and on paper, you had no money coming in. So the idea of just like having these conversations is important. So it's always interesting to hear different people's takes from different places. It's a wild world. You're the wrong person to marry. Let me ask you this though. Wedding. It's coming up for you. You got the wedding ready to go. You know where it's going to be. How about from like any tips or tricks on the whole idea of like budgeting or spending when it comes to money in wedding planning? I don't have any tips or tricks. You're just like I overspent. I'm very fortunate to be to be in the position I'm in to have the wedding I want.

Okay, let's ask you this. I'm also very fortunate that, you know, me, me spending on a wedding is, has upside. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. You know, yeah. And so. When you're thinking about just the business side of it. Yeah.

Yeah. Just the more eyeballs. That's the plus side of being a public figure. Yep. You know. Hannah Godwin came on today and she talked about their wedding, the person who was working her dress invested big into PR and analytics to monitor it and their wedding their wedding did 60 million impressions yeah 60 million so there is a

business behind this stuff it's interesting well I think what you just did too is tease us we're all gonna watch and then when we watch impressions will be off the charts and you'll he'll talk about that upside I want to talk about Bachelor real quick just in general it's very high level business relationship with the show in a good place like golden bachelor I didn't see you there would have been there like where where's the business relationship with the show I think it's great. I mean, you know, as my show grows, I'm just attached less and less to it. We're just covering other things and, and experience a lot of success in that space. So, you know, quite frankly, as far as the Val Files, like we go where the hype is, you know, where the story is.

And so that has taken us a little away from Bachelor. But, you know, relationship's still strong. Yeah. Okay. You know, I mean, as far as Golden, yeah, I mean, I was busy. prepping for Gypsy. And, you know, I'm very careful about saying yes to Bachelor opportunities. At the same time, I'm also a member of the press as far as the Bachelor franchise is concerned. So that's something they have to take into consideration, you know, when having me at events or not having me at events. And so I'm just, I'm far less inclined to be a part of those types of events. I thought that I never would. And there's always exceptions to every rule, but yeah, it has to make sense just because, you know,

not I'm having success in other spaces. It's, I think it's important to keep that momentum going in that direction rather than kind of revisit, you know, old friends, so to speak. But I always, you know, bachelor got, you know, I never speak negatively about my experience. Yep. I've always been open that I've had my frustrations with the show as everyone else has, but I knew what I signed up for. I didn't know what I signed up for in terms of what the bachelor experience was, but I knew I signed up for things that are outside of my control. Okay. And so I'm grateful for my time on the show and grateful the experience.

And I'm grateful for what a lot of the producers have done for me, even though that hasn't always been positive. And so my views on my experience with them has always been net positive. Okay. It's a growing, changing relationship, but a net positive one. Just a couple more questions. And we've heard you talk a little bit about going to school to be a therapist. I was just curious the career direction there.

Is that still very much? I've looked into schools, talked to my therapist about different types of schools. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get started this year. I mean, 2023 truly was one of the crazy years of my life, getting engaged, the success of the show by my grandfather's house, finding out now he was pregnant. Going and doing and winning special forces is like, you know, like maybe in my top 10. But I had a crazy year. I had a very wild, wild, wild, wild year of insane and impactful things and wonderful moments

of my life. And so, yeah, what was the point of bringing that up? I just, what was the question? No, I was just curious. We transitioned from The Bachelor to just overall, just the year and everything. I had a big year. So we'll see how this year goes. But 2023 will be hard to beat, yeah, overall.

But then again, I am getting married. and I am having my first kid. And, you know, we started with Gypsy Rose and Clayton and Kylie. Kylie. Who was cheated on in, Bachelor Nation. Wow. Okay. A lot of action.

Nick, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. The last thing I got for you, you mentioned special forces, winning it. When you compare the mental endurance on special forces to any of the other shows that you went on, Dancing with the Stars, Bachelor, Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise, how would you compare it? psychologically mentally have been bachelor or somewhat close you know

two years of special forces if five people had finished three people have been from bachelor nation I don't think that's a coincidence yeah special forces is only eight days which a lot of people

were surprised to find that out people who watched it and they were very clear about every episode it was a day yeah maybe it's you know I couldn't imagine

it being more than eight days it was hell on earth psychologically and physically bachelor is a whole different animal in terms of the psychological you're truly alone in Bachelor.

Special Force, you're not alone. In fact, you're with a lot of people. You have a community. I mean, thank God I had Tyler there. Thank God I had Jojo there. You know, we all support each other. We were all, you know, having each other was the part that got us through. Yeah.

In fact, I'm Bachelor. You don't know. You can't trust anyone, you know? Can't trust producers. Can't trust your castmates who are all vying for the same person. You're truly emotionally by yourself. It's very challenging. and that can last up to nine weeks, you know.

That's a long time to be by yourself emotionally without a support system. And so, yeah. Okay. But they're different, but both equally challenging. Both equally challenging. Sounds like special forces might have been a little bit more mentally enduring. But I don't know if you could put a timestamp on pain because... It's different.

I mean, special forces, I was truly suffering. Yeah. Yeah. For eight days. Right. know, truly suffering the last three days. Like, I was just literally trying to get to the next hour. Yeah.

And I don't think you can do a timestamp on the stuff. Like, we're sitting in aloe and they have their cold plunges. You go in there for three minutes. And, you know, it could be torture. So, like, all different things. So it was that for, like, three days. Right, for three days. So saying nine days and nine weeks is irrelevant.

But Nick, yeah, a 23, huge year for you. You just told us a little bit about it. Sounds like they're going to be a therapist. It's on the radar, but it wasn't this year. We'll see what happens. Oh, that's why I brought that up. Yeah. I just had a lot going on.

Yeah, that's why I brought it off full circle. But I absolutely, it's not a matter of if it's when just finding the time and maybe not, you know, expecting my first kid and launching a media company and, you know, I'm a big believer and, you know, there's two great times to work really hard, you know, and that's when either things are going really great or when things aren't going so great. Yeah. You know, right now, things are going really well for my show and, you know, me and my team, where we're, we're, we're, we're. and has opportunity to double and triple down on our efforts and keep making sure that we keep the momentum going and we really love what we do and you know and right now that's that's the focus but uh i i that's kind of you know being a therapist is something i really want to do for like kind of the the last chapter of my professional career interesting i find that i i'm my hope is that

will be a lot more calm okay well that will be more calm that's probably the next time we're going to have you on this show is when you sell this media company for millions and millions and then you become a therapist. Nick, you're killing it every aspect from the podcast and the media company at your wedding coming up, soon to be father. 100 million plus downloads is the goal this year. We heard some numbers for you. We really appreciate you being on trading secrets, but we got to finish with one trading secrets. So think about the last two years specifically. What is one trading secret? We can't get into a textbook from a professor, TikTok or YouTube tutorial we can only get from your career success.

What would you say it has been? Really think long game, big picture, and don't burn bridges. I like that. Don't burn bridges. I like that. Which is something that people in fascination do all the time. Yeah, we're very good at that. Oh, yeah.

You just never know. You just never know who's going to work for someone else someday. And you just never know who you're going to run into and you can't predict the future. So be consistent, plan ahead and just keep grinding, man. There you go. I like that. I think I'm going to say the trading secret I learned from this episode was what you said just as you wrapped up. And it was the two times you work really hard are when you need to do better or you're killing it.

I think most people, when they're doing really well, take their foot off the gas. That's the exact opposite of what you've done. And I think in the last two years, your foot was on the pedal. And when the foot was on the pedal, not only did you press harder, you got other people pressing harder with you. And I think that's been huge for you. So congrats on all your success. and thank you for being back on and where can everyone find everything you got going?

Just check us out on the Vial Files three days a week, Monday, Tuesday, and Thursdays for the most part for all the other stuff we're doing because you'll find out once you start listening to our show. Nick Vial on Instagram and TikTok and check us out wherever you get your podcasts,

including YouTube. I love it. And you also have a Vial Files Plus, right? Yeah, we have a premium subscription. We do multiple shows a week behind that. It's free to sign up. So go to Vial Files Plus. FileFiles.com and check that out. I love it. Well, Nick, thank you for being on this episode,

Trane Secrets. Thanks for having, bud. Ding, ding, ding. I got it back. It's mine again. The ding, ding, ding, ding is mine again. You know, last week, we know, David, you got the ding, ding, ding as I was in the hot seat. That was a great episode. The JTA was fire, man. You did a great job. Congratulations. And you know what? I saw some reviews, man. I saw some reviews out there. I even saw Dave Neal did a whole thing about that episode. And I don't know if you saw it on YouTube, but he gave you a lot of credit. He said you did a great job. So, David, we're back in the recap.

We're back to where we sit. We had Nick Vial on the second time, two years later, an absolute beast when we talk about business and branding. So where do you want to take this? Where do you want to go? Well, first off, thank you for that. It was great to listen back to JTA. I have to admit, I'm on my coach, recording this recap in my happy place.

There's no ringlight on my face. And Jay, I was nervous. Like, I don't think I ever told you this, but I was nervous for JTA. And so listening back, just whenever you hear yourself talk, you find the moments that you were the most nervous. So I'm glad it came across in a way that the listeners really liked and that you appreciated. And, you know, I'm, I feel like I'm settling into my, my. podcast space right now. At 2024, I'm going to be a little more confident in entering the

podcast space and kicking me off of JTA was great. And following up with this Nick Viall episode, Jay, even better, even better. I love that, David. I love it. You know what's funny is like I was listening to it back and I was thinking after the episode, I was way too dialed and not enough like banter and fun like typically you and I have. That was because also we had that day, I had Justin Susie, I had Jacks Taylor, and I have Francesca Farragough all after this, and we were on a tight time. But then I listened to it back. I'm like, it actually came off great because you did such a good job hosting. And as a result of that, it allowed me to answer the questions in a focused manner without any bullshit.

And it was a great episode. So, and guys, thank you. I can't tell you. I will say of any episode we've had yet, that episode has generated the most DMs. personal messages and personal emails. So the team is catching up on those and we actually had a one hour trading secret strategy call today to talk about a whole lot of things as it relates to what this podcast will be moving forward. And I think that's a good transition back to this episode because there's nothing like perspective. And when I listen back to JTA and I hear about, you know,

one of my ventures is a podcast. I got a lot of moving parts. But one of them we do about 350k last year in revenue, you feel pretty good about, okay, two guys and a mic and some guests and making an impact. Now, when you compare the fact that 350K of revenue last year doesn't even connect or touch to one half, one half the amount that Nick spent to operate his podcast, you know what? That is the stuff you need like. You got to be surrounding about people like that because when you hear those numbers and you hear those things and you see the success, it makes you want to be better. That's how we're going to transition to this Nick Vial recap. Yeah, 100%.

And like you opened with the podcast King, Nick Vial, 150 million downloads in the last five years. And no better way to humble ourselves after patting ourselves on the back for JTA 2023 to take a slice of humble pie. Listen to Nick Vial's numbers there. But I know you, Jay, and I know your tone of voice and your body language in these interviews. Some of them, you just, you're a sponge. You got the notepad in the head. You're taking mental notes.

I want to ask you, or is there a couple things when you're sitting under that chair that you're listening to him? I kind of ask this a little bit on JTA, but really listen to this. I saw another level of it. Is there anything that you really are honing in and taking away from this podcast for trading secrets or just yourself moving forward? Here's the thing. Nick is very intellectually stimulating. He's a smart fucking guy, really smart. And so I just enjoy talking to him and learning more about him. And when we talk, I'm stimulated by what he says and what he says, I kind of want to know more of and dig into. So for me, it makes like, for a great interview. And I do all this preparing. I have all these questions. I didn't look at my notes once. I just let my brain do the

work. Nick was so kind. I said, after the podcast, I said, Nick, let me take you and Natalie out to dinner for coming on. I know you got a lot going on. I mean, he just landed from the Gypsy Rose interview. And he was so kind to be like, no, man, like, why don't we cook for you? And I was like, no, no, no. And so we went over to his house and we talked for like, again, two hours plus of just great conversation. So I just enjoy talking to him. And when you talk about the, the idea of being a sponge, I was a sponge. And I was asking a lot of questions because my curiosities were just moving in a lot of directions. I even think, I think we live and we act and we strategize and we deploy a lot of things in very different ways. But we

both do it with intentional ways. And because he does things so differently than me, I'm so curious by it. And one thing about that he said, when he came on the first time when we recap, like, I'm just starting to believe him more. Like one quote that he said, he talks actively about not trying to be in the news. He goes, nothing that I do. Am I trying to be in the news? And old David would be like, hot Nick Vail. He's definitely trying to be in the news, blah, blah, but I'm like, you know what? I believe him now. Like, I don't think he is. I think he's like, said he's super intellectual i just think he's smarter than others in this field and has a super sharp strategy for his podcast his team his vision and you know obviously he's crushing it like

he's like proof is in the pudding he's had more success in income and personal income every year since 2015 he's got goals for 100 million downloads this year on the podcast which i mean we float numbers around all the time, like $100 million to $100 million. I am curious because the first time when he was on, he was definitely more open about monetary numbers. Did you, were you surprised that he just seemed a little more tight lip on his numbers this time? Do you have a theory behind why that might be? I think he's at the level of success now from a money standpoint that he's almost like, I don't want to be giving people, A, my playbook or B, I don't want to be giving them the numbers connected to my playbook because life is fucking good. And I also want to say, let's not forget,

this is where I want to give him credit. When we talk about business and career navigation, the one thing is Nick just does him and doesn't care what people think. And it's easier to say that than do that. Nick had a lot of ventures that didn't work out. Nick was trying and it's kind of scratching and clawing at everything when he got off the show. He had an acting career, which he still dabbles into, but he had a, you know, there was like this oils company. He also had this men's monthly subscription kit that didn't work out. He was hustling this YouTube channel with Jared. I know they tried different shows to launch. Like Nick pushed and went after it. And Nick actually launched his podcast late. And when he launched it late,

he'd launched it by himself, right? Had his team, but by himself in a network. And in a net network. He was going up against the beasts of IHeart Radio with Ben Higgins and Ashley I, who literally took over this area. You of course know my ex's podcast was crushing it in this space. And there's, you know, Bachelor Happy Hour where Becca and Rachel Lindsay were on was absolutely crushing it. Like he had his work cut out for him and kind of came in in a solo mission after some things didn't work out and has absolutely taken over and, you know, no one is coming even close. And it's really interesting to see. It's wild. It is really interesting. And he's obviously found his way of doing it on the business end. And one takeaway I

had was on the personal end, which I was really impressed about with someone who obviously creates so many headlines through his podcast. But he said on a personal scale, he doesn't read his press. I thought his takeaway about how he talked about Reddit, for example. And I'm just going to touch on this really, really quick for myself. My name came across on Reddit. I started having like heart palpitations, like freaking out. Like I, I commented. Why though? Why? I commented on one of your posts as like a friend. And all of a sudden I'm on bachelor nation scoop. And I'm seeing my name on bachelor nation scoop. And I'm having like freakouts because it's just like an unfamiliar place for me to see my name in places that unless I'm putting my name into Google that I'm not used to seeing. And then you start

worrying about why is it on there? what are people saying? Is that true? Do I have to defend myself? Or it could even be positive things that people start saying and then maybe you start thinking, you know, other things about, you know, that aren't relative to your life, your day-to-day or e-happiness. And it just, at the end of the day, it just impacts you. Obviously, in the last year, you know, or even since you've been off the show, you've probably had to deal with the Reddit monster for a while. How is your approach and did what Nick say about that whole thing resonate with you at all? Okay, great question. There's two things to talk about. The first thing we have to talk about

is when Nick talked about the fact that he tells people not to look at comments, tells them not to go on Reddit. When I asked him, who is Nick Vial? We see all these sides, right? We see every side of Nick. Who is it? And when he just said, it's just me in that moment, there's a lot of people that say that. I actually believe him. I believe that he doesn't read these comments. I believe that he doesn't. And what his comment was about how people edit themselves is so damn accurate. There are so many people that read the comments and then try to adjust their behaviors, the way they talk, the way they look, the way they do everything so that they can meet the standard of what these comments are saying and now they've lost themselves.

And when you lose yourself, you then have nothing to offer. And when you have nothing to offer, no one's watching anymore. And when he talked about the fact, I don't want to edit myself because I want to continue to just be me, I'm going to be me. But still the fact that he said, I recognize that me is not perfect, right? There's days I did do that wrong. I should have done that better, but that was me in that moment. And I'd rather be me in that moment

than the edited version of me. Nailed it. The second part here is let's just talk about Reddit for a second or comments. I think you asked me the question, what did it do? The first time I saw myself in Reddit or any of these articles online

and then all these people comment and stuff, same thing. Stomach twisted, like started like losing my shit. One of the big things I recognize, especially through a lot of work in therapy, is understanding why does it deregulate me? What is it? Like, when that happens, why?

And the big thing that really irritates me is when I'm either mislabeled or things are incorrect. That's where I notice I get the most irritated. Most of the time, those people on Reddit are like FBI agents, dude. They know everything. A lot of the time, they are right. But when they are wrong,

or when they speculate things that aren't the actual truth, that's where I want to, like, jump on there and go. And I really try to stay off of it, but, you know, that doesn't always happen. And a lot of times articles get sent. And I am definitely one of the people that when an article is sent to me on Reddit, I click even though I know I shouldn't. So, you know, Nick's right about that. If you continue to look at that stuff, you'll edit yourself.

And if you edit yourself, you won't be yourself. And that's maybe a little bit of a takeaway that you can have from just like we have our viewers at home have takeaways. you got to not click that article that gets senty and Reddit. And it is a takeaway, I think, to not edit yourself in every fashion, Jay, like for our listeners and just their every day, like, in business, in career, like socially, dating scene, like, the more that you try and be something because of what someone else said or did or anything is really shortchanging yourself for what you want to put out there to others in the workplace

and in the social scene and the dating pools. So I thought that that was a really interesting takeaway. way. And one thing I definitely want to get to before, you know, we run out of time here is back to his podcast. I couldn't believe, and my jaw was almost on the floor when you asked him a great question, what are your top three revenue streams? And he basically said the podcast. And then when you asked him about social media, he almost, Jay, he almost couldn't even give it the time of day to answer social media as a revenue stream. And I just want to kind of get your, your vibe on that because of how popular and successful and how big of a following is and how

well you know you can monetize social media. Just that like feeling in the room where he's just putting that out there and talking about that. Because it really, it shocked me. And I loved it. To be honest, like I loved the passion, intensity, energy focus that he has on his podcast. Well, it makes sense because I remember like back in the day he put so much time and energy at least what it felt like from an outsider's perspective on social media and now you can tell I don't think he really gives a shit right I think all he looks at is social media as or the main thing he looks at is social media will drive more podcast downloads drive the entirety of me on my business where so many of us don't do none of us do that none of us do that right so I was blown away by that the big

numbers with the podcast when I asked him about 25k an episode just absolutely mind blowing they didn't flinch at it. Obviously, he didn't give me a number. I think he makes that, if not, probably more. The fact that last episode I had with him, I said over under 750,000, he said over. And this episode, he said, 750,000, that number is how much he spent to operate his podcast. That was an expense. And then you think about just the total amount of downloads he's getting. It's absolutely insanity. So I don't know. I think about it. I need to just have a, next time I talk to Nick, I need to just pick, all right, let's take pencils and papers out. How much are you making on social? I'm going to guess he's, he's, he's, he's, he's right. He's not focused on us because

he's making millions and millions on his podcast. But I wonder, I would ask him, and I'll ask him actually. Two years ago, I did 1.2 on my, you know, all the social category. And then one last year. And this year, I'll definitely surpass one million. I wonder what he does on social, even though that's incomparable to what he's making on the overall podcast. I am, I am curious. But it's mind-blowing. And it's, it's absolutely, it's incredible. I just loved when he said, do you make 25K an episode? He goes, instantly goes, I'm not going to answer that, which obviously means he does, right? And he alluded to, he said he doesn't want to track the wrong attention with sharing answers

to those type of questions. So did you see the way I kind of challenged him there, though? Yeah. Yeah. I think that was, that was an interesting take because I get what he's saying. He's making so much now that it's like, I don't want to even attract that attention. Yeah. But, man, like, there are companies that I used to work for where there was one owner and they did 800 million in revenue.

And do you know how much I could learn from those people that did 800 million in revenue? How to hire? How to not to hire? How to negotiate? How to reinvest? At what point can you reinvest? How much is your profitability gone down now that you are reinvesting at that level? Like, you know, now you were able to scale to have a network. So I just think there's so many lessons that you can have without being braggadocious and still talking numbers. Well, it all goes to the root of the podcast. I mean, why you started the concept of this podcast is, you know, financial transparency and how money is made in certain industries and, you know, talking about money and a means to motivate and build people up. So I totally understand why he feels that way, but it also goes back to the root of our podcast. And speaking of the root of the podcast, I just love what he said in, he said in passing. And he said, you know, kind of defining his podcast. And he said it's a pop culture relationship. podcast. And in my head, I'm thinking, fuck, what, what an amazing niche. And he has that nail down. And so when he comes across guests or things are happening in headlines, he can relate it to is it pop culture, is a relationship? I need them on my podcast. So you talked on JTA about niching down for trading secrets. I know we throw a lot of things of what the podcast is,

but four years into it, what are we to you? Like, do you have a niche set down? Can you, do you have come to mind, a three word, we're a pop culture relationship podcast. What do you think trading secrets is and learning all this and talking to Nick, what do you want it to be? The podcast is in simple terms. It's a career and money exploration podcast. I like that. Right. So it's career and money exploration. It's not industry specific. So it's a non-industry specific career and money exploration podcast. I think there's a way to say we should make it a pop culture, you know, money in career podcast. I think we could do that, especially if we add two episodes. That could be a niche. And I also think, David, when you look at all different areas, you know, what is going to

sell? We talk about this more. Entertainment's always going to sell more than education. So there's ways that we could adjust the podcast to sell more if we wanted to, but we also want to stay within the focus of exactly what we're doing. You know, that goes at all different levels, right? Like you see what only fans creators are doing now. Some of them are again millions and millions a month. Does that mean that's the direction you go? No, am I comparing what Nick's doing to that? Absolutely not. The point is, is when you enter into certain categories, there will be different levels of attainable success within those categories. So it's a good question. Where do you think we should go knowing that's my definition of what the podcast is? Well, I'm glad I asked it because I've never heard

you say the word exploration. In any recap episode teaser trailer, and here it is, I gave you three words and you use the word exploration. So to me, it means that I like it, but I think we're still figuring it out and narrowing it down. Obviously, like you said, the pop culture piece, the entertainment piece over education in terms of viewers, I think we're both really big and want to stay true to the education piece that everyone who comes on is still learning something or having a takeaway. You know, my big thing too is like, I do think the listeners as much as they come on for the guests also come on for you. And so I think doing this through you as the avenue and the point person is a root of our

podcast, which, you know, I'm team second episode, Love and Life episode two. So I think that, you know, I think we're getting closer to narrowing it down and nailing it down, which is, you know, at the end of the day, important for us and our growth and in our niche so we can be the best of what we do. Yeah. And I think let's not forget, too, even going back to Nick, it took them 10 months, 10 months to make 25K. then also when you think about the idea of that he said his last network didn't sell as well so you know he had to find the right things and the right places through exploration and he's done just

that and he found his niche and I also think he said after the podcast like there are only so many times you get these big moments right like these moments come and when they come you got to capitalize and then push with the momentum right Gypsy Rose was a massive moment for him one million views on YouTube for a channel that has 140,000 subscribers. That's a moment. They will push forward and it will be incredible. It was fun to interview Nick. It was interesting to see what he's doing and how he's doing it and the way he's building

it, especially with his network. It'll be cool to come back to see what that looks like. He's got Natalie on top of Natalie's got a family coming. I don't know what Rahman is going nuts about right now, but he's starting to cry. So all good stuff's going on around here. Yeah, I just heard Carter cry in the other room too. So here we go. We're just in it. Two, two babies, different ones got fur, ones about to get fur on his head. But last question I got for you, it can be really quick. Jay, if trading secrets ended up having some of the success, let's say, let's just say it got as successful as the Vial files, would you do anything else? Would you have any other business ventures or would you be, you know, absolutely laser focus on every detail of trading secrets? It's hard to answer that question. I just like the idea of diversifying for a lot of reasons. I would be, I'd be deploying more time towards it. Yeah. Right? And I will say this year, I've been, there's a lot happening behind training

secrets. So, good question. Okay. I'm going to keep deploying that time, stay focused. Okay. Money Mafia, if you're here, there were some really funny moments in this interview where you'll want to see facial expressions. Go to our YouTube channel, Trading Secrets, Jason Tardick, and subscribe. We have an Instagram page that's Trading Secrets podcast. I You can follow that every day the market's open. We give you the information that you need to know. We've been doing that for four years. So go check us out there.

And we have master classes and a networking group that's going to be totally revamped coming soon. So I'm excited about what's to come. And David, I think that second episode, I think we are very, very close. I'm telling you, I know I got a lot on my plate. I know our schedule is Clyde. We do 30 minutes. We lock it down Wednesday nights. We work hard days.

We come back. You know, like I said, we pour our finest cocktail and we sit on the couch and we just, we do it. We do it. I got a ring light, Jay, so I got to put it to use. You're legit now. You heard Nick say it. He doesn't care if you love him. He doesn't care if you hate him.

He just needs you to listen to him. I think there are a ton of takeaways from the career navigation, financial, social, professional, all the all success that Nick Vial has. had and is having, and it was an honor to have them back here on Trading Secrets. David, you got anything before we wrap? Nope. Five stars. I think this is my first recap of 2024, look, Amigo. So I'm just happy to be back here. Rolling a snowball down the hill, create more momentum, but as we go. Keep giving us five stars. Every single episode, we give something away from the influencer closet

to someone who gives us five stars on Apple and tells us their biggest takeaway and or what guest they want on the show. So let's do a quick giveaway here. Here it is. C-M-C-O-C-O-C-2-3. That's a username. More J-T-A. More Jason Tells All. Such a great episode. Love hearing the behind scenes of your life and financial status. Thank you for sharing that with us. I'm amazed at how successful you are and your net worth. Wow. Congrats and keep up the good work. Look forward to Mondays when your new episodes come out. Well, thank you so much for that review. Send us your address. Trading Secrets at Jason Tartick.com. We'll send you something from the influencer closet. David, thank you for joining me for this recap. Nick, if you're still

here with us, thank you for being on this episode, Trading Secrets, and get ready next week. We got Jacks Taylor, the one and only, the Vanderpump King, who came left and is now back and has another show under his belt that we'll talk all about. So get ready to go to tune into another episode of Trading Secrets you can't afford to miss. Making that money and money, living that dream. Making that money, money, money pay on me. Making that money, money, living that dream.