Trading Secrets - Pt 1. The Former Bachelor, Ben Higgins Tell$ All

Episode Date: September 4, 2023

This week, Jason is joined by one of Bachelor Nation’s biggest stars and fan favorites, Ben Higgins! Ben initially won over the hearts of viewers during his time on The Bachelorette and eventually became the Bachelor himself. Following his time on the shows Ben embarked on numerous ventures, entrepreneurial and otherwise, with a mission to help organizations connect more deeply with their employees and customers. In 2017, Ben co-founded Generous Coffee, a company dedicated to raising money through its operation to create jobs, feed children, improve education and empower communities to eliminate poverty around the world. Outside of his socially conscious work, he maintains a connection to the one and only Bachelor Nation by co-hosting the Bachelor focused, Almost Famous podcast with Ashley I, which has accumulated over 80+ million downloads to date.  Ben gives insight to how he ended up leaving Indiana and working as a business analyst in Denver, how his lifestyle stayed the same between The Bachelorette and The Bachelor, how he has processed insecurities and handled criticism, what feedback about his season impacted him the most, his desire to be a representative of a community, and what Ben and Lauren Happily Ever After was almost focused around. Ben also reveals how the show had a major impact on his relationship with Lauren, how the breakup impacted his fanbase,  the healing process,  his time doing Winter Games, what role he was initially offered for Winter Games and why it changed, and if he was offered to appear on another Bachelor Nation show. When did he feel like an outsider in the franchise? Who discouraged him from ever going on Dancing with the Stars? Is there anything he would have done differently post breakup?  Ben Higgins reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!  Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: Declan O’Connell Guests: Ben Higgins Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tardick, and welcome to the pre-market trading segment, where we talk a little bit about what you can expect from this episode, something that you need to know going into this week and a little update from my life, business, and personal. So first and foremost, we have the legend. The legend of the Bachelor franchise, the one the only, Ben Higgins. I'm excited to have been on the show for a lot of reasons. One, his history within the franchise runs deep. And his success within business post show runs even deeper and wider. Now, this is going to be a two-part series. And the first part, you're going to hear a lot about Ben's journey before the Bachelorette, going on the Bachelorette, becoming the Bachelor and after the Bachelor in a ton of the dollar. in a ton of the dollars and cents in navigation.

How much was he paid to be The Bachelor? How much was he paid to go on winter games? How much was he paid to do the show with Lauren after the show? What were some of the repercussions of the decisions he made from a professional standpoint in his personal life? How did personal decisions then impact the monetization and navigation of his professional life? There were so many different aspects of this interview. And the depths of these conversations were some of the deepest conversations I've had with Ben.

Now, what's been nice, too, is that Ben and I got to do so many stuff together over the years. Different ad campaigns. We shot a commercial together. We've done I-Heart radio several times. We've done different golfing trips. We both played at the FedEx St. Jude and did some charity work with St. Jude and, you know, all this stuff. And over the years, we've had so many, so many deep conversations about life and business in this whole entire world. And we finally got to bring it light in a two-part series.

So the second part, you're going to hear a lot about Ben's navigating. into Bachelor franchise. How could he make the next steps within the franchise? Were there opportunities? Where did he take business in a whole different direction with his generous coffee? His investing into different businesses and restaurants. So that's a lot of part two. Part one is all pre-show and just post-show. And you're going to hear things from Ben you've never heard before. And you're going to hear sides of his story, even from him going into politics as a politician that you may have never heard from Ben Higgins. So this episode is one I'm really, really excited about.

Please remember to give us five stars. Let us know what you think about the episode. And specifically in this episode, we bought five bags of generous coffee. We will announce the winners in next week's part two recap. But all I have to do is give us five stars. Tell us your biggest takeaway from Ben's episode or a guest that you think we should have on the show. You'll be entered and five winners will be announced at the recap.

next week at the end of Ben Higgins' tell-all part two. Some stuff that you need to know going into this week. Well, U.S. employers added 3.1 million jobs during the past 12 months, including 187,000 jobs in August. So one thing you should know is that the unemployment rate actually was up in August, 3.8%. And that's up from 3.5% in July. Now, what does that mean to you? If interest rates keep going up and companies aren't laying off employees, well, as we increase interest rates, we're trying to reduce inflation, but if we see that companies are still holding on to employees, even when interest rates, the cost of money goes up, it tells us that this economy is strong as companies can afford to do so. It's very eye-opening to see that

interest rates keep going up, but unemployment, it's moving, but not really. 3.8% is still like at all-time low unemployment rates. So what does that mean? We probably will see interest rates either stay steady or increase based on the economic data that we're getting. Now, if you're looking at different industries to explore, it looks like healthcare showed the biggest gain of employment. The sector added 71,000 jobs in August and some other industries that were hiring at a high rate in August were leisure and hospitality, social assistance, and construction. And so if you haven't got your raises lately, it's time to get to work. Average hourly earnings rose 0.2% for the a month and 4.3% from a year ago. So think about what you're making right now. Is it 4.3% more than what

you were making last year at this time? Well, that's what the average increases around the United States. So definitely some time to think about how you can either increase your current rate at your employer or maybe find some side hustle to make a couple bucks. For me, I've been on a nice little travel run here. So I was in Nashville for about a month and then I was in Colorado for a week. that's where I interviewed Ben. I was up in Beaver Creek, did some hiking, played some golf, got to be one with nature, a little nature cleanse. And then of course got to see Blake Horstman interviewed Ben, which was phenomenal. And now I am in New York City, actually, which has been really nice. I've been on this fun little homeless run where from, for like

three weeks, I can't get into my new house. So I'm like a nomad. I've been staying at friends' houses, been staying at hotels, family members. It's actually been a really good time to reconnect with family and the foundation of friends that, you know, mean the most to me and that have helped me through this tough time. Like, it's just, every day is getting better, which is good. In the healing process, I think it just works in all kinds of steps. And it works in steps to get what inevitably, hopefully, will be acceptance. I'm still working towards that, getting there.

It's just tough, you know, it's really, really challenging. And I've said it before, but when you love someone and they let you go, and you have to just pick yourself up. You have to navigate. You have to find your confidence again. You have to fill your tank again. You have to grow as a human and then navigate the directions of life. And with so many moving parts,

is location and career and family and time and age. It adds a lot to it. It's funny because I'm like, this is a podcast about careers and money. I'm like finding myself going back reading as weird as this is, the book that I wrote, the restart roadmap because I feel like, well, professionally everything is in its own lane and moving really well. It's the personal stuff that I'm wondering, what's best for me? Where do I go? And how does

that impact the professional stuff? Which is a great segue into this podcast. So a little bit about me. Please remember gives us five stars. We have five bags of Ben Higgins generous coffee. We are given away. Let us know your biggest takeaway of this episode of guests we should have on. and part one, Ben Higgins. Let's ring in the bell with the one, the only, the stud of all studs, Ben Higgins. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today, I am joined by one of Bachelor Nation's biggest stars in fan favorite of the franchise, Ben Higgins. Ben initially won over the hearts of viewers during his time on The Bachelorette, and eventually becoming the Bachelor himself. Following his time on the shows, Ben embarked on numerous ventures,

entrepreneurial and otherwise with a mission to help organizations connect more deeply with their employees and customers. In 2017, Ben co-founded Generous Coffee, a company dedicated to raising money through its operation to create jobs, feed children, improve education, and empower communities to eliminate poverty around the world. Outside of his socially conscious work, he maintains a connection to the one and only Bachelor Nation by co-hosting the Bachelor-focused, almost famous podcast. with Ashley I, which has accumulated over 80 plus million downloads a date. You could probably even correct me. It's probably higher than that. Started, I think, in March of 2017.

Tens of thousands of reviews, absolutely killing it with Iheart. Ben's time on the show may not have had the fairy tale ending, but he has fully taken advantage of his opportunities post show and finding his way to his now wife, Jessica Clark Higgins, various business endeavors, writing a book, hosting shows around the country. And today, we are going to discuss it all with the one and only Ben Higgins. Ben, thank you so much for being on Training Secrets. This is a dream. I've waited for the day that I can sit down with good talks in a car, but we've never got to record them.

I'm very excited to be here. We have. And Ben, you've all, since the day I met you, which is the second I got off the show, if you remember for the IR Radio Festival, 2018. And I would say to the people I know, I'm like, I don't know if he's just bullshit Shittner is just that nice. I can confirm all these years when he says this stuff. He's just that nice of a guy. So thank you for coming on. Oh, man, I really did. I was going to try this a few months ago. It didn't work out. Now we get to sit down and talk. This is a really great show that I

like listening to. I've listened to some of your biggest episodes in the past. And so I'm pumped to sit down and talk. I love it. All right. Let's go all the way back before you were on the Bachelorette. But your IT sales, back off as processing and financial services space. What was the name of the company? How long were you working there before you decided to go on the Bachelorette? Yeah. So I graduated from college, moved to South America because I had no job offers at a college. And I looked and I tried. I came back to the U.S. and I was working at a youth center in Worses, Indiana. And somebody that I cared deeply about, who I was dating at the time, once I came back, said, then you're never going to leave Indiana. And she wasn't wrong,

but it hit a court with me because I'm an only child. And so I really wanted to prove that I could get out, do something on my own. Then my boss, a few weeks later, said, Ben, you got to get out here. You're going to be stuck here. She said, my brother, the vice president of a company in Denver, that does back office processing in the financial services space. He has a job opening as a business analyst. He's willing to hire you on the spot because I've given him your name. And I said, okay, I'm in. And I moved out to Denver, took this job. It was called Talysis. We did all the settlement and clearing for brokerage firms who were selling assets. My first job was really, I was writing the user manuals for the software that we are implementing and doing the

implementation into these new companies. I was terrible at it. I talked for a living now. I was writing user manuals for living back then. And so over time, I moved into sales and then business development. How old were you at this point when you're in this job? So I started the job when I was 23. Okay. I did the show the Bachelorette when I was 25, turning 26. I actually kept that job for another two years after I was the bachelor. And I left the job in 2018. Wait, so you, You were with this job while you were a contestant on the Bachelorette and while you were the lead on the Bachelor. I was. And they let you keep your job.

They did. I just took a sabbatical. You know, I think for me back then, this show was so different in terms of social media following. Instagram had just gotten started. Yeah. A lot of the stories of the past were people doing club appearances. That's not me. I knew it was never going to be me, but that's how they were generating their revenant from coming on the show.

I would not have gone on the show at all unless my company gave me approval to take the sabbatical. And they did both times. What were you making before you went on the show at this job? When I started, it was $33,000 a year. Okay, $33,000, and you were going to pass on the opportunity to go on the bachelor's for $33,000 a year. Insurance. Insurance.

That's an old Midwest mentality. The Buffalo guy, I know that you can't lose your pension. You can't lose your insurance. All right. So you then go on the show, $33,000. You go on the Bachelorette, and you are now America's sweetheart when you get off that show. What was the first transition professionally?

I went back to Talysis. It was a really weird life, as you can imagine. The show is airing and I'm in the basement in a cubicle in an office and a company that's not doing well at the time. Nowadays doesn't even exist. It failed a year after I left, not because I left, but because I could see the red flags. And so I went back to work, back to the cubicle. And then I think they asked me to be the bachelor.

But it was two and a half months until they really approached me. And at that time, I had been hearing rumors of other people getting approached to be the bachelor from that season. And so I'd moved on. I'd started focusing back on work. And I was fully invested in just, hey, my life is back in the office. And this is my, this thing didn't work for me. So you do reality TV. You're on Caitlin's season. You get off. You go back to work. And in no way, shape, or form, does your future at all look like TV, media entertainment at all from Ben's vision? No, not at all. Okay. No. But then you blow up. You are America's sweetheart. The season airs. Caitlin's season was one of the best seasons ever of the franchise. How did that impact any type of

monetization and your social media before you were selected as The Bachelor? Really none, because I remember when I got announced as a Bachelor, I think I had at that point 10,000 followers. So even after Caitlin's season, what? When you were announced as the Bachelor, 10,000 followers? 10,000 followers? Because Instagram was still in the beta faith. Nobody was following people. It's still Facebook at the time. It was 2016-ish, 2017? Yeah. And so people weren't really gravitating towards these people like they were maybe my season of The Bachelor, which was six months later, it was the flipping point. I was in the time where people were still, nobody's really capitalizing on social media. Okay. And you mentioned club appearances. Did you do any club appearances in this

time frame before being the Bachelor? No. Okay. So you didn't make one penny off being on the Bachelorette before you got named the Bachelor? Nothing significant that I can remember. I remember there was nothing in my mind that thought this could be a consistent source of income. Okay. Final four in your season after the show. Did you guys talk about, hey, I might be the bachelor or what are you going to do with this platform? Did you guys have that continuity where you're talking about how do we use this as an opportunity? Jared and I did. And Nick and I did at some levels. But then in that period of time, I lost those friendships or being able to communicate with them because they went on Paradise. And I felt like the outsider then at that point because I wasn't asked

to go. I wasn't asked to be involved in that. Would you have gone if you were asked? If I was not the bachelor and they would have asked me to go, I think I would have. I was really not enjoying my job. Yeah. And I knew how these people were being compensated for going on Paradise. And I was like, that seems like a decent path. I was ready to leave Talasus at that point. I checked out, but I just didn't know where I could go to find a new job. When they talked to you about being the Bachelor, knowing that you would have been on Paradise during the season that I was on, I think we talked to you about this. Me, Blake, and Colton were so close that we told each other every single call we received, every contract, we told each other every question they asked in

an interview. Were you talking to Nick? Were you talking to Jared? Hey, are you getting the call? Did you sign the contract? Did that happen? No, I really wasn't. I think there's a level of envy that I had at the time, not maybe they, that they felt, but because I wasn't getting approached like I thought others were, I was hearing rumors of others, I just took a step back. I didn't want to hear about it. I was in a season of chaos, right? I just admitted to the world that I felt unlovable, that I had some deep insecurities in my life. I had just been removed from a show that was very hard for me to go through. It was uncomfortable for me. I'm from a small town. I moved out here. I wasn't good at my job and I was had a lot of like deep seated yeah insecurities so I was just processing

that I think I did talk to Jared and I think Jared and I had spoken about it and Jared would always be in the camp of I remember a phone call I had with him once or he's like you're gonna be the next bachelor yeah like they're gonna ask you but that's probably as far as I went with them okay when they do approach you do you at all negotiate anything in the contract you just sign me up I'll be there tomorrow. I remember when they call. I was actually in St. Pete at Raymond James, which is my account at at the time. I was staying in a hotel that I was pretty much living at. I get a phone call from them, and I walk into the bedroom and I sit down. I still remember it. And they said, hey, we want you to be the next bachelor. And I said, okay. Sure. And they said, you have 48 hours or something to think

about it. And I said, okay. So I called my family. And that was the end of that talk. And then I called him back and I said, hey, I am interested. I would like to do this. We started talking about when they were going to announce it and all of that. And then the contract came. And so that was the first time I'd really seen the contract to being the bachelor. And I did at that point hire an attorney, but I didn't hire an agent. I didn't have any representation. So I was negotiating on my behalf, but having it checked and balanced through an attorney to make sure that I guess I was signing away my rights, but I negotiated on my own behalf. Okay. Let me guess. I think you've talked about this before. Maybe you haven't, but 50,000 to be The Bachelor. Yeah, around there.

I think you've talked about it before. I don't know if I've ever publicly said exactly the amount, but I'm all for doing it. I was actually, I figured it was going to be a question. I was trying to think back. Yeah. It was, I know for a fact, it was near 50,000 less than 80. It was somewhere in that range. There was some perks that I think I negotiated into it. But yeah, it was world changing money for me, life-changing money for me, but it was not like, it was not lifestyle changing money. All right. So you go on the journey, you tell work again, you're going to be on another sabbatical. They check off, unpaid sabbatical. You start as the bachelor. At this point, most people that start day one as the lead are thinking about what this could turn into other opportunities.

For some reason, I truly believe that wasn't the case for you. I feel like you were just like, okay, I got another shot. I'm actually going to find my person. I don't think that's the case for 99% of the leads. For you, I think it might have been, was it? Yeah, it was. I had a lot of conversations, and I got to give credit to Chris Harrison through this process. He was an advisor through even the negotiation of the contract, which there was some negotiation. And I have said this publicly, I think what The Bachelor does, and I don't know this for certain, but it's always been what I've heard is they know your annual salary, which at the time obviously was not astronomical, but I was following people like Chris Souls, who has thousands of acres in Iowa and

makes a lot of money farming. And so I think they take that, and that comes into how they compensate you to be the lead, is based on what you're making the previous year. And for them to offer me the amount of money they were, for me, I was like, yes. Again, I didn't love my job. This was not a stepping stone into a new chapter of life, but it was a new career for at least a period of time for me. But when it came down to it for me, I really was excited about the opportunity to be the bachelor, not really knowing what that meant. And I called Chris Harris. And I've had some really pointed conversation with him. And he told me, he goes, Ben, you've got to do something with this. Like, I know you're the bachelor. And I know that you want to do the right thing here and you want to walk through this process well. But you also have to look out for yourself in this. You have to be thinking about what's next. What can you do with this newfound platform, this new found recognition? And that really started to churn a little bit inside my head. I just didn't still know what that look like. I still didn't know how to do. how to think about that, but also at the time care for the people that were coming onto the show

to try to date. Yeah, I get that. Okay, so you take America by storm, you finish filming the Bachelor then airs. We're going to talk a little bit about that and how you pivoted, but what was the follower count you had after the show after it was aired? It was probably about one million to, it's probably what it was, is today, 1.1, 1.2 million. So you went from 10,000 from the day being named The Bachelor to $1.2 million just like that after the show's aired. Yeah. I mean, it skyrocketed. Skyrocketed.

Now, I'm going to get into some of the post-show opportunities that came your way because with that transition, it must have come big. Before I do, you found yourself in what I would say, I don't know, maybe I'm not going to say the first controversy of your life, but the first controversy that you've ever had just publicly because you were America's sweetheart, you were the guy, and you tell two people that you love them. And one's Lauren, one's Jojo, you end up with Lauren. Jojo, of course, then becomes the Bachelorette.

I don't want to get in the weeds of all that and how it happened. What I do want to know is how did you deal with some of the first time you received public negativity? And how much did that impact other areas of your life, whether personally, professionally or financially? Yeah, for me, it was, I did not expect to get the criticism I did knowing what I had done. When it aired, I was not expecting that to be the most controversial piece of my season. It was not on my mind. It was not something I was worried about. And then it happened.

And it did feel like people responded in droves with criticism. I think there's a piece of that where I set myself up for failure. I think the show set me up for a little bit of failure, where the tagline of my season was the perfect bin. And I think anytime you show somebody or expect somebody to be perfect as a human, one, people just don't like it. People don't, like, if people call me perfect today, I'd say that one, that's not true. Two, like, it's not, it's not something that I enjoy hearing about myself. So when I messed up or when I said that, I think people are looking for a reason to criticize. They love the underdog.

They don't like the person that's being put on a pedestal. So I say it comes out. There's criticism to it. In fact, that was me, it's odd, if I look back on that time. That was the one piece of criticism, though, that I, that didn't affect. me personally about how I felt about myself. There was other pieces that did. It affected my romantic relationship with Lauren deeply. It became a massive conversation for us behind the scenes of how could I do that? How could I propose to her the day after I do that? Those were fair

questions. Those were fair concerns, not questions I necessarily had answers to. There wasn't a good answer that would make her feel better. That I wasn't trying to explain myself out of it. But the reason that it didn't affect me personally is because I've always known my intentions and why I said that. I don't think it was wise of me to say to them. I don't think I should have communicated it outwardly. But inwardly, it's how I felt. And I did it because I wanted them both to know how special they were to me at that time in my life. And I felt really good about those intentions. And so I held on to that. There's other things like, hey, I'm boring. Hey, he's got a, he's not as ripped his other bad. Like physical stuff and personality stuff affect me a lot more

than my intentions in that moment. Okay. Let me draw those tough experiences back. to kind of career stuff. So you're hearing all this noise. You're not the ripped bachelor. You let a girl on and you shouldn't have. She becomes the bachelorette. You clearly said it had an impact on your relationship. Are you a firm believer that when your personal relationships are going through it,

you separate it from work and finances and just move those two things in different directions? Or do you feel like there was some bleedover, some crossover into the other worlds as you're trying to navigate 1.1 million hours as you're trying to make some money and capitalize on this. Yeah, I think for us, I made some really poor decisions. I think Lauren and I together made some really poor decisions during that time. There was nothing, there was no me putting my foot down, but the show came to us and said, hey, we want to do a follow-up show with the two of you, Ben and Lauren happily ever after. And the concept of the time was I was running for office, and there's a whole mess behind the scenes of what happened there. But the agreement was

that they were going to support me and my run for office. Politics looked a lot different back then. What the two parties stood for looked a lot different back then. How the fuck do I get a stash? How the fuck do you go from selling IT to be that adventure and not you're going to be in politics?

Whose idea was this? This was always my idea. So I've always wanted to be a representative of a community. That ties into what I'm doing today and where I found my lane outside of politics. But there was always this desire to represent people to be involved in the story of a community being built or the people of the community being sustained.

And I had mentioned this many times on the show, just in private, and I enjoy learning about politics, not as much today as I did back then. I've kind of separated myself from that passion in my life. The show said they wanted to do a kind of a docu-series on it and follow Lauren I's life and Lauren I's life as I ran and kind of the nitty. You're a hard time.

I know, it's wild, right? President Ben Higgins. I see it. Okay, keep going. And it's five o'clock meetings for breakfast with people telling me what issues were important to them, talking through the controversial issues of the day, which back then was like public schools and private schools and charter schools. It wasn't what we're talking about today. At some point, then I got put on the ballot. And unfortunately, due to some legal matters that the network ran into, they couldn't film an air a docu-series that just represented. me had to also represent the incumbent, which was my opponent of the opposite party.

Who was your incumbent? I forget his name right now. But he was in office then for two terms at that point. They say, hey, legally, like, you got to get out. And I said, I can't get out. This is my district. This is my neighborhood. These are, like, the people that have supported me. And they said, you're under contract for a show. We got to still do a show. And so, like, you can run for office and film a show on the side, or you can choose one or you can choose the drop. And at the point, I couldn't, in a relationship that was already tumultuous, I could not imagine myself doing both those things. It would have ruined me. And it wouldn't have put myself in a good place to run and represent well. So we decided to do Ben and Lauren happily ever after,

which was a show then about our life and about the things we were trying to figure out. The problem with that, and to go back to your original question here, it was a really good business decision for us because we were not married. We were two separate pieces of talent, but separately. 100 grand each. Yeah. And then... Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. That was a good guess. Yeah. And then they used our house to film it. So obviously, then there's the rental income for them to film a show in our home. Did you split the rental income or who's, it was your home? Yeah.

Yeah. We split it at the time. I think we split it up until the very end. Okay. Hang out one question because I don't want to oversee it. State representative. Do you have any? I just have no idea.

It's a world we've never explored on this show. Any idea what they're compensated if you do get elected? Oh, it's not much. Yeah. Somewhere around the first. $30,000 range. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's not a well-paid position. It would not be my full-time job. Sure. It would be a side thing. Okay. It's very few people's full-time job. Usually your attorney or a doctor or a software salesman. Okay. One other question too. And then I'm going to get back to it. I just don't want to lose it.

You get offered this show. ABC is notorious and then the best way ever for supporting a lot of their leads to do cool things, to do other shows. We just saw charity. She's going on dance with the stars. Caitlin went on dancing with stars in one. Like it's really awesome that they do that. I'm assuming this was an ABC show, and were there any other opportunities presented to you? It wasn't an ABC show. It was an ABC show. It was an ABC show. And I never got asked to do anything out. Okay. So that was never an offer, never on the table for me. Got it. There was probably a period of time where I could have pushed for that. But I talked to Sean Lowe and Sean Lowe had told me, hey, if you can at any level not do Dance with the Stars, it's going to be better for your relationship.

Wow. It's really hard on a relationship. There's a lot of time. And if you're having any issues post show, do your best to not go on that show. Even if your relationship is ironclad and you are the strongest person in the world and you have no form of insecurities, which is impossible we all do, that show will beat your relationship up. Yeah, 100%. It does, right? Absolutely does.

That was the advice that's going to me. And we were struggling trying to talk, walk, work through stuff and we'd have really great times and really hard times. And I think both of us had said, hey, this, that's not for us. No, don't forget here, I'm still working at Talisus. I've not left my job yet. This is all insane. Okay, politician, Talisus, Bachelor.

Now you're filming the show. Under K.E. You got the rent. What happens with the show? The show airs on Freeform, ABC Family. Give me a time frame. Before Nick has announced as The Bachelor or no? During it.

We're filming a show when Nick has announced as The Bachelor. In fact, there's a scene where he gives me a call and tells me he's going to be the next Bachelor. When you got that call, how'd you feel? Fine. I was doing my thing. He had worked hard to... He earned his stripes. He earned his stripes, right?

That was Pros Paradise. he had gone on two seasons of The Bachelorette. I like Nick. I've always got along with Nick. I enjoy being around him. He's always been very interesting to me. And so when he was announces or when he was going to be The Bachelor, I think there was a moment where I was excited for him to be the Bachelor. But at that point in time, you've got to think there was very little time for me to like sulk or have any envy or jealousy. And I was in a relationship from that show. Yeah. You're happy. You're good. At that point, I felt like, hey, I'm going to have deep involvement in this show for years to come. It doesn't matter who the lead is, I'm going to be around. And I was excited about that. That was a new

thought in my head. So we filmed the show. It airs. And it's in the midst of stuff that was already hard for us. This show is being filmed at the same time for 10 to 12 hours a day in my 700 square foot house that black fans are parked outside. Our garage was their production studio. There were people in the house at 7 a.m. leaving at 10 p.m. every day. from Tear Down and Set Up with New Light. And it just, I think there was many reasons why we didn't work as a couple. I think that show was going to be what I'll say, impossible for us to have a healthy relationship through it and coming out of it because we became working partners.

We had no time, any time that we had privately away from the cameras, we were exhausted or I was working. And so we weren't sitting down and being like, how are you? the normal stuff that now I have with Jessica, like, how are you doing? How do you feel about a relationship? That was gone. And it had been gone for months. And so we were in survival mode at that point. Interesting. So that is an example of when personal and professional can collide and the results can be catastrophic to just everything, to your launch pad with your career, to your personal happiness, to all those things. It's interesting. We're going to get into a bunch of your

career stuff after this time in your life. But I do want to quickly touch on when you did break up, talk to me a little bit about how that impacted everything within the momentum you had built on Instagram, on monetization, on brand building, and all the things that were in your trajectory. Did it impact it? How? Massively. One, it was a real breakup. And so you are affected. And you, at least for me, how I handled it was I went and became a recluse in a lot of ways. I was still working a job, and those people at the job now knew about my breakup. They had seen me cry on television. And then the show at that point, and this isn't a secret, it was aired on happily ever after. They had asked us to air our wedding on TV. They were going

to cover it and pay us to do it. And I think the misconception there at the time was that I had cold feet. In a sense, I did. I think we both did. We weren't ready. Our relationship was holding on by a thread, and then they were going to film then leading up to this wedding. So we would have had no time to recalibrate and see if this was a healthy relationship or not, or if we'd get married or not. We could go head first. And that's why I said, I think I can speak for myself. I can't speak for Lauren, but obviously we're in two different places of the day and very happy. I think doing that show was a mistake for our relationship. It was not a mistake professionally necessarily, but it was a mistake for a romantic relationship. And so my priorities, I think,

were misaligned at the time. I was young and naive to, well, I thought we could get through. So when we break up, obviously then happily have our after stops, which was supposed to go on for a couple of seasons. Oh, shit. They ended up replacing it with the Twins show that aired soon after. Yeah. And then you start to build, you go from being this happy couple that everybody's celebrating and cheering for the two of you to then I think your follower base gets split. They go from being fans of Ben and Lauren to then fans of Lauren or fans of Ben. And that one wasn't healthy for Lauren or myself.

That was a really hard time, I think, to process through. But then obviously, your following becomes a little more critical. They make a lot more assumptions. You're viewed into different light. They start questioning your intentions for going on the show and your relationship off the show. And some of those intentions that they questioned were fair. I look back today.

I'm like, yeah, I don't know why I said yes to that. Well, I think I do. It was the money and it was the opportunity. Sure. And so, yeah, it did stall the momentum. and it changed my identity. I went from being on the bachelor's and being in a healthy relationship with for a period of time to then being single again.

Yeah. And that, I think, changed my identity drastically. And I wasn't necessarily ready to be single again. I didn't know how to do that. Yeah, I can relate to that. Knowing what you know now asking as a friend here. But is there anything you would have done differently or any advice you'd give knowing the impact it had on all the areas of your life as someone who's like in the middle

of it all. Yeah. I think I can only speak to my experience, which was coming in a relationship with a really great person. I'd always viewed more in that way. I still view her that way. And so this was a, for the most part, a healthy relationship that went wrong. Two good, two people with the best intentions just didn't work out. And so for me, I look back on that. And I wish I would have held on to resentment for a shorter period of time. I wish I would have quickly, because we still had a good relationship in the day, I haven't talked to her in years. I wish I would have gotten to a place where I wanted to heal any wounds that were left out there because we didn't. We just parted ways and never really healed the things that were said at the end or the things that were done at the end.

I look back now as a married man and I'm like, it doesn't feel good to have past relationships that were healthy. Again, I'm speaking from a healthy relationship and then not ever have that closure. It just didn't, it doesn't feel good. And then I wish, and I didn't really until I met Jessica, quite honestly, which was years later, I wish I would have found a way to heal personally, but also found a way to think and view and speak. of Lauren in a way that was more uplifting and less of a burden and less heavy on my heart because I carried this weight of fear of one would I run into her at an event was somebody going to ask me about her in an interview this was a very raw and real time for me I wish I would have gotten to a place where I said would have confidently said hey we didn't work out yeah but I care about this person yeah and I would have known that she would have felt the same way if that's how she felt but I think everybody heals differently it takes different lengths of time for people to heal, especially from relationships that are real and raw

and meaningful. Yeah. And I just wish I could have found a space to view it in a better light because really I didn't for years. Yeah. A lot of that hit home. I'm going to go to the next topic. Otherwise, I might hit me home.

So let's go back down in the professional world. Thank you for sharing that. It all landed. I heard you. I see you. I feel you. And I'll let that digest after because I don't want to go down a road that'll take trading secrets in a whole different direction.

All right, bring it back. Here we go. After that, professionally, were you ever offered any other position within the franchise to go on Paradise or to be The Bachelor again? What on Winter Games? That's right. How dare me skip your Winter Game session? Winter Games, that was post-breakup.

This was in January. I think we filmed that show. We had ended probably in, let's say, October. At that point, at least publicly ended in October. Let me take a stab. Yeah. $500 a day. Oh, I don't even know if I got paid to go on that show.

You had to get paid. Did I get paid? It wasn't a lot. It wasn't a meaningful amount that I remember. Okay, I think that answers it. The thing at the time and the reason I said yes to that show, one, I thought the show was a really cool idea. Yeah. Similar how I feel about the Golden Bachelor.

There's been very few shows in the franchise that I'm like, I like the idea of the show. I hope it works because I think it can help the franchise. I feel that way about the Golden Bachelor. That's why I pushed so hard to try to be involved in it. I felt that way about winter games. At the time, though, they had said, Hey, Ben, we want you because you're so fresh off this relationship and because you're so recent to being a lead on the show,

what if you're like a sideline reporter? What if you're not a contestant on the show trying to find love? What if you're a sideline reporter who's living amongst the house and interviewing people as they're stepping out into these competitions and doing that role? And I was like, that sounds amazing. Yeah, that's a dream. And so I said yes to that.

Fly into Vermont. I landed Vermont. I get a phone call from one of the producers. is that's like, hey, I know that's why you're out here. But little change of plans. We're worried, which is so funny today looking at this, thinking about this, we're worried that if we let you not host this show, be a sideline reporter, then every lead after you will never participate if they don't end up in a happy relationship in any of our spinoff shows. They'll just want to be a host of them. They'll just want to be like the main person. They'll never want to participate

again. And we're worried that will set a bad precedent. Which looking forward, that's only happened once, right, with Becca on Paradise. She's the only lead, right, that's gone on. I'm just, I think so. We can fact check that for the recap. Okay, but they, and so I said, that makes sense to me. That makes sense for them. And so I was driving there, I was like, okay, and they're like, here's our new plan.

You come on. You're a contestant. If you don't meet anybody. And I had been very clear, I am not ready to date. Like, I am not open to a new, I had not dated at all at that point in time. They said, if you don't meet anybody. through this experience, then you're going to obviously be let go. Like, you're not going to make it past week one.

And then once you get let go, then we can revisit and see if maybe you could stick around to be like that support system, that sideline reporter. But they said, if you meet somebody, great, just get there. The first rose ceremony is being done by the women. I get a rose. Somebody there gives me one. I had no, like, the relationship. It was just like night one, first impression.

Somebody gives it to me. I'm around then for another. week. Week two, there's a rose ceremony and somebody that I cared about that I really liked who was really there, like wanting to find somebody, did not have a partner yet. And so I just gave mine to her. No relationship at the time. Week three comes around. I am to let go at that point. Okay. But that's three weeks. There's only one week left. I go home. Okay. You didn't get the sideline gig. And I was really bummed about it because I thought that could be a new thing for me, a new chapter. I could see if I liked it or not. I could see if I was good at or not. The show could see if I had any talent

or not at it. But no, I just went on winner games. That was good. But were you asked to be Paradise or go to be The Bachelor again at any point? I never asked to do Paradise. There was a conversation I had with one of the producers leading up to Ari's season if I was interested in going and being the Bachelor again. Were you? No. Okay. No. I think there was the, at that point in time in my life, I had started to date again. I was not dating consistently. But I also, that period, the breakup was really hard on me emotionally. I don't want to over-dramatized it. It just was. Yeah, it was just a really hard season of life where I felt like I was questioning myself. I was questioning my role and intentions. I also felt at that

point in time, I could no longer do it. I felt like I could no longer be the bachelor with the same innocence, the same naivete, the same purity, the same hopes that I did before. Yeah. That's one of the tough things about the whole thing is that you're going, and you obviously experience this, but you're losing your best friend. You're losing your other half. That's the reality. That's tough enough. And then you're dealing with all the other external noise. There's benefits to this world and there are negatives to this world. And the good comes with the bad. The bad comes with the good. So you have to take responsibility and own it. But it's just a really tough thing to navigate. And so I can imagine why if you were asked to be the bachelor again, you'd be like, no, that's not for me. But I am

surprised because of anyone from the franchise, in my opinion, over Wells, over Nick. But I think of anyone that's been on the show, you have received the most support, the most hype, and the most campaigning from others to take a larger role within the franchise. And it felt like from 2016 to 2000, let's call it, 21, it was 100% going to happen. Yeah. Did you two feel that? Did you think career-wise you were going to have a place larger than you ended up having, looking back at it now being 2023, almost 224? Yeah, yes, I did. One, people kept telling me I would. Yes, I did. One people kept telling me I would. That was the last answer to part one of the Ben Tells All episode when he was asked if he thought he would have a career larger than he did, looking back at it from 2023 vision. of what his place would be like with the Bachelor franchise. This was part one. Part two is coming next week.

Part two, we talk all about the next steps he made after the show, from doing Bachelor Live on stage, to potentially campaigning and taking Chris Harrison's position, to what it would have been like to be on the Golden Bachelor in the conversations he's had, and all of his career moves since from generous coffee, his investment into restaurant groups, and some of his mission, purpose, dollars, and dreams

of what is next. This has been a side of Ben we haven't seen before. This is the Ben Tells All part one. Let's ring in the bell with the one and only the curious Canadian for the recap on part one of the Ben Higgins tells all. Ding, ding, ding. We are ringing in the closing bell with the one and only the curious Canadian. You know him. David Ardoin. This is the first time ever. David was listening live to the Ben Higgins podcast, was sitting in, wasn't asking you questions but listen to every word and immediately after we are going into the recap so i got the one and only david with me before i turn it over to you david just remember all the listeners out there go give us five stars in apple or spotify leave a review of your biggest takeaway from the benhagen's

show and we have five generous bags of coffee to give away we will raffle those off next recap next week david what do you got for me i mean i got a ton uh what i had to put my popcorn down for a to hop on the recap because I was just so into that interview and having Ben with us. So, yeah, you got to hit five stars, though, because as Ben mentioned, his most ludicor of investment is his podcast. So we got hopes and dreams here on Trading Secrets that we're trying to get to, too, because, you know, Ben's our idol. He's our hero and all these things. So I thought it was an awesome episode. And really, Jay, the way that I look at it, it was like a threefold.

You had the diary of Ben Higgins. you had, you know, him really looking eye to eye with you. And I think some stuff that hit home in terms of some, you know, relationships speak and a lot of feelings of what you've been feeling the last month. And then just out of nowhere, just the humble businessman, super successful in some of his investments, such a well-rounded podcast. And I like any time you get in the weed, that's what we're all about. So what do you think in the interview chair? I mean, we got in the weeds. I think you hit the nail on the head.

It was like the triple threat. We got to see a side of Ben. we've never seen before. Ben had some deep conversations that were extremely relatable to what I'm going through. It's also, it's so hard. Like, I'm so in the moment listening to Ben. But then, like, I come on the recap when Ben's gone, and I'm like, it's so crazy. Like, he dated my ex-fiance.

Like, the whole thing, it's so twisty. And you don't realize when you're in it, you know. But I think that all hit home. And then just the things that we already knew about Ben, but took it to a whole different level. behind the scenes of the reality TV navigation, behind the scenes of trying to work and navigate his success within Bachelor franchise. And then, of course, the podcast.

You had mentioned the podcast, David, almost famous, which is with IHeart Radio. I personally know is a seven-figure earning show. So you and I are going to have to step our game up and get to that seven-figure level. Yes, we've gotten to the six-figure level, which we know we share on every Jason Tells All annually, but we are not at the seven-figure level.

They are. They also have I-Hart, Ashley, I-Hare. who's unbelievable and Ben Higgins, who we know is incredible, behind powering that. I think, you know, we were running tight on time and there's so much to cover with Ben, but I think that podcast, I heart's a little tougher with their negotiations.

For example, when I was going to bring over this podcast to Traying Secrets, we would have only got 50% of the revenue max. We currently have a guarantee and we get 80% of the revenue. So I'm imagining, especially with Ben and Ashley, Ben's probably getting my guess would be around 20 to 25 percentage of revenue. And I would imagine he's clearing anywhere from like 200 to 3, 350 off almost famous.

That's my guess. Well, I think that your assessment is right. But one thing that is just so unique about his journey, first off, he shared so many numbers. And we always appreciate our guest sharing numbers, especially you guests that are kind of close to the franchise. Sometimes you don't get that. But there's something has to be said about his. timing. I mean, he goes on the bachelor with 10,000 followers, comes out with a million followers, and he enters the podcast industry eight years ago when all the money's being poured into it,

kind of like a, you know, a starter in the game. So he's kind of hit the social media and the podcast game at the perfect time, which I thought was really interesting. Of the numbers that he did share, Jay, any of them that really stick out to you? 33K of the job that he got when he moved to Denver, what he got paid for the Bachelor, the amount of followers that he have, what 100K for his happily ever after show, 125K-ish for The Bachelor Live on stage, which of these pop out to you? Any in particular? David, I love your question. Your question is saying of all these numbers, which hit home the hardest?

And you just listed about 10 different numbers, and none of those numbers hit me the hardest. The one that hit me the hardest, risk tolerance, just grab life by the balls and go. The guy has 15K to his name because his grandmother passed away and he rips it on a restaurant. I couldn't believe that just for all my listeners out there. When I used to underwrite bank loans, you would put in the industry type and it would instantly tell you if the industry was red, yellow, or green. If it's red, it had a huge success, huge failure rate. Yellow, the industry had a somewhat success rate.

Green, they have a high success rate. Restaurants were the number one worst success rate of any business that we could underwrite. And so for him to think he had 15K to his name, put it all in, and it turned into this, a top 2% performing restaurant group is just nuts. How about you? What did you think was the wildest number? Well, I just got to say top 2% of the restaurant groups in the country. He's probably got a top, well, it definitely has a top 2% podcast in the world.

I mean, this guy's firing in all cylinders. It's kind of wild the podcast game. Like we talked about, we talked about Jared, his final four, right? So it was Jared, him, Sean, and Nick. They each have podcasts. and each of them have like totally different styles. Of course, Sean's being a newer one. And it's just interesting to see like how successful his show is.

But then when he went on his own to do something, that was relatively impactful. That one didn't work. And then, you know, you see what happens with Nick's podcast and how it's blown up and how he has very, very intelligently done a great job himself, but he's found a very good niche, which he's naturally, truly gifted at. And he also has a good surrounding cast of women, on a show that absolutely crush it and offer great perspective and push back. What's interesting

between Ben and Nick is that Ben has always been the good guy and always will be the good guy and that's how he drives ratings. I give Nick a lot of credit for the fact that he doesn't give a shit all you guys out there that chirp him that talk shit about him. Guess what? Every single day he's out there crushing it. So he knows there's noise and what I give Ben or Nick credit for is that he's like the barstool mentality, which we've learned about on this show, or we'll learn about with future guests coming on. They don't care if the comments are good or bad.

They just care that there are comments. And that has what led to Nick's success. And then, of course, you've seen Sean's podcast that came out. I mean, just literally from first episode to wherever, you know, I don't know where he is now, but those first five episodes, literally, I think he put his last 10 years of life story out on the line. And of course, that's going to draw attention.

So it's wild to see how different people pursue different avenues and the success, failures, and longevity of what can happen. 100%. I think kind of you hit the nail on the head with a lot of those just summing it up for like listeners at home. Like if you're going to do something, you've got to just lean into it, right? If all those people been included, right? If all those people been included, just listen to, you know, what people said, like they'd stop doing what they're doing or they wouldn't take in the final step. Like, I think you just got to lean into it and take with it as it comes. And if you're able to do that, like chances are you're going to be successful, especially, you know, when it comes to certain topics,

the topics that create the most comments and criticisms are the most polarizing are the ones that at the end of the day are going to get the most eyeballs. So, yeah, it's just sort of the podcast space in general is just really interesting. And you have to differentiate yourself. Trading Secrets is you've done an amazing job differentiating ourselves so that we could be different too. And I think people come to us for something different than they come to Sean's podcast. and something that they come different from Nick's podcast

and something that come different from Ben's podcast, which speaks to the testament of everyone getting the same opportunity who comes off that show and all you guys really doing something with it. So, but yeah, the podcast industry in general is one that will always be very interesting and polarizing. Yeah, interesting, polarizing, and also one that's very, very tough to monetize. The other person we can talk about is Hannah Brown just started her podcast.

And, you know, she has such a loyal community. So it'll be interesting to see how that one does. It's easy to pop some downloads. It's easy to pop in the ratings early. What's really challenging is sustainable longevity, revenue growth and revenue generation. Ben Higgins and Ashley I have done it like no other. Or I could say like Nick and Caitlin, those three podcasts are the top performing podcasts and anyone that's ever come off the show.

And those are the top three. I think that forever will be until, I don't know, maybe one day. One day, David, we could dream. One day. Yeah, exactly. What else you got? Yeah, one day. We'll be here.

We'll be here recapping until that happens. So in a really random takeaway, you know, when he talked about his job, writing user manuals, and then obviously getting the opportunity even to go to Denver, those little things that I like to kind of sit in my curious Canadian chair and think about. One, the power of your network is how you're going to be successful. life he gets out of indiana because of his network and even though it wasn't for the bachelor that let him out of indiana it was this user manual writing job for 33k which sounds like peanuts it put him in a situation to elevate into what he is now and at the end of the day there's so many random jobs out there just hearing that writing user manuals is even a thing if you're stuck if you wanted to

do something different like just just there's so many random jobs out there if you're stuck and miserable in your job. I'm sorry. There's no excuse to try something new. And it's crazy. I mean, it's surreal and to see, you know, what he's done with it. And like I said, he's kind of the most humble, like serial entrepreneur business person out there. He's got even, even his timeline of when he came off the show, staying at his at his company for a long time pre-bachelorette, post-bachelorette, pre-bachelorette for two years. The guy, has his hands in a bunch of different pots um obviously part one of my favorite parts of the episode j was just seeing you guys kind of get on each other level um with what you're going through what he's going

through um but yeah it was really uh just really great to hear the interview shift in a bunch of different tones and ways um what a good guy my first time really like sitting down and listening to him for over an hour so that was great he's he's a gem it was great i mean from i t sales from before the show, to going on Caitlin's season, to then becoming the Bachelor, to his dynamics with Lauren, the show that they had from going on Bachelor live on stage, tearing his ACL, starting almost famous in 2017, starting generous in 2017, all of his different ventures, some that have flopped like his hope still wins podcasts, but some who have ultimately succeeded like his restaurant investing. The fact that he was, we haven't even talked about it, he almost pursued

politics like literally a to z now he's on a few boards i didn't know about that he invests in small businesses i mean he is touching everything we need more ben higgins and i'm gonna definitely have a follow-up with ben because there was just too much to cover here and too much that's coming that we'll have to discuss and i just can't wait to do that so anything else curious can't name before we wrap up no i mean we just got a smorgas board of uh info from from ben and i like to give the people at home little snippets of pre-record and post-record as soon as that record button stopped he goes wow i've i've never had an opportunity to talk about all those things i've always wanted to and i don't think i've ever said a lot of the things i said before so i hope the people at home

really enjoy this episode i think we got ben at a perfect time and opportunity to speak on all these things it's not often that we can title an episode ben tells all or whoever tells all i think this is one that we could do that every recap we give something away to the Money Mafia. This giveaway is going to the review from Callie Crane, loving this in guest suggestion. Absolutely love this pod, five stars. I've been listening since the beginning and have made so many changes in my life financially for the better. Also, you should get Sabri Subi, S-A-B-R-I-S-U-B-Y. I'm the worst with names. Sabri-Subi, I'm guessing, on here. He is from Australia and is about to be on Shark Tank Australia. She, I said, I'm confused.

She is a marketing and business genius So I'm not sure if it's a she or a he But whoever it is, Sabri Suu B, we are going to try and get you on And Kaylee Crane, thank you for the review and the five stars Shoot us your address at trading secrets at jason tark.com We will send you some from the influencer closet And for everyone back home, give us five stars Tell us your biggest takeaway from Ben's episode.

We have five bags, five freaking bags of generous coffee to give away Which will be given away in the next recap next week. David Ardoin, Curious Canadian. Anything before we sign off? No, locked and loaded. episode. Locked and loaded. Hopefully this was another episode of Trade Secrets, one you couldn't afford to miss.