Trading Secrets - The dental industry unlocked with Dr. Omar Shuayb! The $$$ behind different procedures, the secrets behind the practice, and what YOU need to know before your next appointment. PLUS Dr. Ian & Dr. Joe Mort tell all!

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

This week, Jason is joined by dentist and founder of Shuayb Dental Institute in Tampa Bay, Florida, Dr. Omar Shuayb! Dr. Omar and his brother opened their practice in 2005 and 18 years later, they now own and operate not one, not two, not three, but seven practices in Florida. Their practices offer a full scope of general and cosmetic dentistry with expertise ranging from regular dental check-ins and dental services all the way to a full set of new teeth. They have generated such a high level of success in the Florida market that they have tagged the official dental practice of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.  Dr. Omar gives insight to which practice in the dental industry is most lucrative, why he believes that starting your own practice is best, the education needed to work in the dental field, when he would recommend braces and/or invisalign, what insurance won’t cover, how insurance impacts the price of each service, the importance of being frugal and paying off loans as fast as possible, the value in getting a second opinion, and answers the money mafia’s questions about all things dental! Does he recommend composites? What is the difference between veneers and crowns? Who has been the most scared of getting work done?  PLUS Jason is joined by Dr. Ian Mort and Dr. Joe Mort in the recap and dive deeper into the dental industry! Dr. Omar reveals all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!  Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: Declan O’Connell Guests: Dr. Omar Shuayb Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

At Valvalene Instant Oil Change, we're all about keeping you on the road to summer fun, to rides, to the beach, even to far away places. Valvaline Instant Oil Change, summer drives start here. Welcome back to another episode. episode of Trading Secrets. I'm your host, Jason Tartick, and welcome to the pre-market trading segment. I'll tell you a little bit about what you can expect from today's episode, something you need to know going into this week, and a little update from my personal life. First and foremost, today is all things teeth. You think about going to the dentist, cavities, braces, invisaline, how you should pick a dentist, what you should pay, should you negotiate with a dentist. What about wisdom teeth, oral surgery, all oral hygiene, everything, literally from jaw to jaw,

anything that happens in your mouth that you need to know about from a business perspective, industry perspective, a consumer perspective, and even like if it's a career you're curious about, we talk about the money behind it all. So for the main segment, we have Dr. Omar on, and this is really cool. Dr. Omar is giving away a free set of veneers. Now, a little bit about my personal journey. Before I went on the show, I got something called composites. Essentially what composites are is, if you think about one of your back molars, if you have a cavity, they have to drill the cavity out, like take the decay out, and then they fill it. They fill it with filling. So a composite is actually taking the filling and shaping it around your teeth

to cosmetically give it the look that you want. So I had two peg teeth next to my big front two teeth. And so I did composites because it's quick, it's easy, and it's a cheap form of getting your teeth symmetrical if they're not. So I did it right before I went on the Bachelorette. Now, the problem with composites, because they're a little bit cheaper, they're not as durable. And with that, it becomes a lot of cracking. And then I had some issues with a little bit of decay under the composites, through the gum line just because of the composites. And so as a result of that, I ended up getting eight crowns, which you'll learn are just a higher durable form of veneers. And so I got eight crowns through Dr. Omar, and I was referred to Dr. Omar by Nate Ruckdashel

and Rob Grinkowski. So you're going to hear a little bit about my journey, but also he did such an unbelievable job with Rob's teeth, with my teeth, with Nate's teeth, that Dr. Omar said he's going to give a free set of veneers or crowns away. So to enter, there's a link in the show notes. There's a link at Trading Secrets podcast page, and there's a link at Dr. Omar's Instagram. It's just Dr. underscore Omar, O M-A-R, underscore 23. All you have to do is put in your name, your email address, and follow myself and Dr. Omar, and you will be entered to win. And the giveaway does not include transportation to Tampa Bay where his offices are,

but it does include a full set of veneers or crowns, whatever you prefer. and there's a huge retail value to that. So might as well put your name in, might as well put your email in. It's free to enter. So with this episode, we cover all things dentistry. It's going to be interesting.

And then in the recap, we have two of my very, very close friends, Dr. Ian Mort and Dr. Joe Mort, both I went to college with, both now live in Nashville. So Dr. Ian Mort is a general dentist. Dr. Joseph Mort is an oral surgeon.

So you're going to hear their take on the episode with Dr. Omar, fill us in on anything that they think we need to know more of, and it's a couple good friends just bantering. So this episode is fully jam-packed, and anything you don't know about oral hygiene, the dollars and cents behind the teeth world, you will know after this. And listen, don't stop and not listen to this episode, because I don't care who you are. You have teeth, and the dentist industry will impact you, and will impact your partner, and will impact your kids and your parents, et cetera. We all have them. So let's lean into them and let's know the business

because you can even negotiate with your dentists. We talk about that in the main episode and in the recap. Little update from the market. Okay, so here's what I'm going to give you. There is a very, very famous investor, Charlie Munger, that just passed away. He was Warren Buffett's right-hand man. I thought to this episode, because he just passed away, I'd give you some tips and tricks just from his words of advice.

One thing that he was known for was his extreme diligence and patience to buy and his hold approach. So let's go through four of his big recommendations. In memory of Charlie Munger, one of the best investors of our time. The big money is not in the buying and selling, but it's in the waiting. The whole secret of investments are to find places where they are safe and wise, not to diversify. So he is a very, very strong believer in pick the right company, pick strong companies, and hold. His second thing, thing, buy wonderful businesses at fair prices. According to Investopedia, they say a core component of Munger's approach to investing was the belief in the strength of the value investing philosophy.

He is known to have said, forget what you know about buying fair businesses at wonderful prices. Instead, buy wonderful businesses at fair prices. Essentially, stop trying to, like, beat the market by a second and get the perfect price. If you have the right business, get in at a fair price. Hold and you'll be kind. His next lesson, great opportunities are rare. Munger made investment choices under the belief that life is not just bathing you with unlimited opportunities. Following this perspective, he aimed to weed out as many average or bad investing ideas as possible. Essentially what he's saying here is, when you get a Lollapalooza, for God's sake, don't hang by like a timid little rabbit. So the point is, when you see an opportunity, great opportunities only come by

so often in life, jump on it, don't let it go. His next lesson, good businesses are ethical businesses. Good businesses are ethical. Conversely, a business model that relies on trickery is doomed to fail. And those are his four big tips to investing. Charlie Munger, one of the best investors of our time, RIP Charlie, who died November 23rd at 99. A little update for my personal life. I am here in Austin, Texas. I was playing golf in Sergio and Angela Garcia's not-for-profit, which is for kids, F-O-R-E-4, like you're hitting the golf ball and you're about to hit someone for, but it is for the kids in ATX. They raised millions of dollars. It was an unbelievable weekend. Weirdly enough, I'm at the same hotel in the same hotel room that I was here for Chris Harrison's wedding one

month ago. So it has been an unbelievable weekend, but the energy and the memories are running and that is for damn sure. And this week being in Austin, I was able to get Chris Harrison and Sergio Garcia to come on the podcast. So those are two episodes that you can't afford to miss that are coming up. Remember to subscribe. Remember to follow. And if you give us five stars in Apple or Spotify and let us know who you think should be on the next episode of your biggest takeaway, we give away something to one of those reviews every week in the recap. So stay tuned for that. But without further ado, let's ring in the bell with the one and only Dr. Omar. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today I am joined by Dennis and founder of Schwab Dental Institute in Tampa Bay,

Florida, Dr. Omar Schwab, the one the only. Dr. Omar and his brother opened their practice in 2005. And 18 years later, they now own and operate not one, not two, not three, not four. We talked about it yesterday. Seven practices in Florida. Their practice. is offer a full scope of general and cosmetic dentistry with expertise ranging from regular dental check-ins and dental services all the way to a full set of new teeth, which I currently have. We'll talk about that. They have generated such a high level of success in the Florida market that they have tagged the official dental practice of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The dental field is an area we have never explored on trading secrets. Today, we are going to talk about the ins and outs

of the business behind oral hygiene. Having an entrepreneurial mind is essential to sustain success and hope to get some advice on that. Everyone's been asking questions left and right. So Dr. Omar, thank you so much for being on Trading Secrets. Thank you. How are you doing, brother? I'm doing good.

By the way, if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see it. If you're not, I am in, I'm going to call it the palace of Dr. Omar. I mean, this place is absolutely gorgeous, and it's starting to get me wondering. why I didn't get into cosmetic dentistry. So let's start with this. The whole practice of being in this industry, there's endodontists, there's oral surgeons, there are, you know, just specialists like orthodontics, and then there are people like you that also do cosmetics. Of all those areas, which is the most lucrative when you're thinking about getting it in from a business perspective? By far general dentistry because with general dentistry, your scope of practice is open exponentially. You can do

all those services that you just mentioned, you know, by taking courses, taking classes, and just, you know, exceeding in all those areas. So I'm pretty much proficient in all those areas and i don't refer much out to specialists unless i have to but i do all those services you just described if you specialize in just one thing yeah you know endodontics etc i mean you're focused on one thing you can only do one thing you know and you know and it gets boring all right but with like oral surgery there's got to be big dollars behind oral i love oral surgery I was hesitant when I graduated dental school from Boston University, whether I wanted to do it or not, because I do love surgery and I do a lot of surgery.

But yeah, there's big dollars in oral surgery. Plus, for some reason, in a lot of states, Medicaid, I don't accept Medicaid personally, but Medicaid pays oral surgeons really well. Okay, interesting. But in your practice, where the most, just from the business sense, the most money is made in cosmetic private pay, right? Yes. And cosmetic dentistry and implants.

And I do tons of implants. But yeah, between nose and crown and bridge and cosmetic dentistry, yeah, it's the most lucrative. Okay. Now, you own seven practices, but I did some research and it said that Dennis and the United States on average make $172,000 per year. So would your recommendation for anybody that is in the dental practice to definitely go out on your own and build your own practice? Absolutely.

It's a no-brainer. It's a no-brainer. I started out working for corporations when I got at a dental school. I mean, it's a good head start boost, but then you're limited on what instruments you can buy. You're limited on what laboratory you can use. It's, yeah, no, but by far, you know, you make it your own. Okay.

Going into your, you know, making your own practice. Okay. We're going to get into all the burning questions you guys are waiting for at home. I do want to touch you to the career of the whole industry, though. Dental hygienist, on average, it says make $82,000 per year. So for people that don't know about dental hygienists, what type of school do you need to be a hygienist? All you need is to have your, if I'm not mistaken, your AA degree. Okay.

you know two years of college and then you know have a decent it is competitive and then apply to dental hygiene school and that's another two years and you're solid okay so four years you could be a dental hygienist and on average 82,000 dollars a year not too bad for the United States right there talk to me about being a dentist you have to obviously do four years of undergrad and then where do you go from there four year of undergrad four year of dental school and that's it okay so eight years and you're up in practicing got it all right interesting all right let's Now, let's get into some of the ins and outs of the practice and things we should know about. So another stat for you, we're big with numbers here, is that 50% of the kids in the U.S.

require braces before the age of 18. Overall, do you think kids are prescribed braces at too early of an age? Are you pro braces? What is your overall take on just braces for children? A lot of the patients I see they start braces too late. okay and as you know when you start them too late it just gets a little bit more complex but the earlier you start meaning as you know when the patient loses their primary teeth and they have all their adult teeth and if they have crowding or spacing in the teeth they should immediately you

know visit an orthodontist and have a consult but as far as braces per se i don't do the metal braces. I do invisaline. A lot more conservative does not damage the teeth, does not involve brackets. It doesn't cause calcifications on teeth, et cetera. So nowadays, a lot more invisibleine is being done. Okay. So you, as a dentist, would you recommend then to get invisibleine if you didn't get braces? So suppose you're becoming an adult. I think I'm hearing, and I couldn't be wrong that if you're an adult and you need braces and the options between braces and invisaline you would recommend invisible line you but there are there are like guidelines for invisible like if you have severe crowding yeah or whatever severe spacing then you're going to have

to go the traditional route which is the metal braces okay got it but i mean if it's a straightforward moderate crowding etc definitely invisible line okay so as a kid you would recommend children, the earlier you do it, the better off you are, go with braces as you age and you have the ability within your mouth to do it, do Invisaline over braces. Yes, absolutely. And kids know Invisaline because Invisaline requires that you wear your trays all the time, you know, most of the day and then you have to change them out every, you know, two to three weeks and kids, you know, they'll lose those. Unsustainable. You can't do it. It's a waste of money with Okay, we talk dollars and cents here on Trading Secrets, braces. What do you think would be a decent

price point for someone to be paying for their kids' braces? Like, give me a number that you're like, okay, not bad, or give me a number that's like, that's way too much. Be aware. Not bad. 4,500 to 5,000. Okay. Above 5 to 6,000 on the high side. And in that scenario, if they're doing like 6,000, they're going to make that. that's direct margin to the office, right? Yes. Because in these circumstances, there's the cost of goods, there's a cost of people, there's the cost of real estate, and then everything above that is just going to be margin.

So is it fair, whether it's braces or any service, do you think people should be shopping around? Obviously, we talk about the car business, right? You buy a car, you go to another dealership. Do you think for services over a certain dollar amount, consumers should be shopping around? Yes, I think they should get one or two cars. quote, you know, we'll get a couple of quotes. It's not going to hurt. I mean, you know, it depends on the area you're living in. Here in this area, for example, you know, braces are five to six thousand. The same braces in Beverly Hills is six to ten thousand. Interesting. All right. Well,

guys, you heard that. You want some work done. Come down to Tampa Bay, Florida. You'll save a couple bucks with Dr. Omar. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So there's a shout out. All right, let's do this. I I want to transition into the Invisaline real quick. So how much should people be paying for Invisaline? Invisaline between, I would say also 4,500 to 5,500. Okay, so if you're paying more of that, be aware if you're paying less than that, well, you got yourself a deal. Okay, so Invisaline, braces, we covered it. I want to talk a little bit about just insurance in general, because there are some insurances that cover certain cosmetics based on how they're qualified. There are some insurances that have better reimbursements.

Let's just talk from a consumer perspective. What are some things that we should maybe know about dental insurance that we don't? Can we get veneers possibly qualified in certain circumstances? Things like TMJ, et cetera, are there solutions around insurance? What's your overall take on insurance from just a consumer, not a dentist? As far as cosmetic dentistry, if you come to me and you tell me, I want Hollywood smile, et cetera. What that Steve Harvey look? Bill Walton.

That Bill Walton look. I mean, if you come and tell me, yeah, you want a cosmetic smile, don't waste your time getting insurance. Okay. Why? They won't pay for it. Ever. No. No chance.

Insurance never really pays for cosmetic smiles or. dentistry unless the teeth are obviously severely worn or you got decay on them and then that's a different story then yeah then you can but as far as if you have a nice smile and there's no cavities really hardly cavities visible on the x-rays then yeah they're not going to cover okay good to know let's go through some services in the dental practice start to finish and you tell me a price point that if so just give me the same thing an average price point so it's the consumer back home if they hear that they're paying more they could be aware of a cavity one cavity filling one cavity filling one 150 to 200 okay a cleaning that's an open question because there's several types of

cleanings you can have a prophylaxis cleaning which is the regular cleaning pretty much a professional toothbrush cleaning at your dental office okay that you know That's anywhere between 50 to 100 bucks. Okay. And then, you know, you have like a medium cleaning. That's a couple hundred bucks. And then you can have a deep cleaning. If you haven't had a cleaning in a while, that can range anywhere between five to $700.

Wow. Okay. So that's a big range on the cleaning front. We went over the cavity front. How about a root canal? Again, you know, again, now these things will. depend on insurance because obviously insurance will help with services like that. So if you, I'm talking right now, if you don't have insurance, root canal on, you know, anterior tooth, meaning

front teeth, you're looking at anywhere between $600 to $800 on a molar. You're looking anywhere between a thousand to thirteen hundred dollars okay all right so that gives you some insight for the people back home let's talk about the insurance though the whole aspect of insurance when someone does have insurance and they have a root canal and let's say it's an eight hundred dollar procedure how is a consumer am i supposed to know what insurance covered versus what they didn't cover and how much you charge me on top of that like what are how does that work we're contracted by these insurance companies. So the insurance company, let's just say the root canal on a front tooth is $800. Yeah. We're contracted by the insurance company that they're going to pay us,

for example, $400 and the patient's responsible for the other 400. The other 400. Okay. So if I were to shop around my root canal with another dentist, I need to ask the other dentist my all-in cost. I need to know the 800, not the 400 number. Right. Okay. And because you can change that price based on what insurance will cover. If the insurance company tells me I can only charge $800 for this root canal, that's all I can charge. So the insurance company will tell you how much. Yeah, we're contracted. Okay. So they'll tell you 800. And they could tell me $500. And you can't mark it up from there. And then they'll tell me, we'll only pay $200 and the patient's going to pay $300, for example. Okay. And do they audit that to make sure? Like,

How did that, suppose if they say, we're only going to cover 400, why wouldn't you as a dentist just say, I'm going to charge 1,200? You can't. See, there's just contracted PPO fees. Okay, okay. You know, they're just, you can't mess with that. And for people that don't know what PPO means, what is it? Preferer provider organization.

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See Sales Associate for details. Offer valid 821 through 9.3. All right, let me tell you about my story. So here's my story with Dr. Omar, the one and only. You know, I go through a hard breakup, and I'm thinking about, okay, what could I do differently in my life? I need a little step me up, pick me up. Well, my story before I went on the Bachelorette, I'll put a picture of it on the YouTube, but I had two peg teeth. My teeth were kind of a mess. I had braces. But then, like, they just were not cosmetically pleasing.

So before the Bachelorette, I was like, all right, let's quickly get these things fixed, like two weeks before filming, and they did composites. So I had the composites in. Problem with composites, and we'll talk about this whole process for people that are more interested on the cosmetic side of things with your smile. They chip. They didn't last. They broke. In fact, when I was filming on The Bachelorette, we did a chicken wing eating contest in Buffalo, and I bit into the chicken wing while I was filming my tooth cracked in half. So the whole time they filmed me, they had to film me on an angle and I had to go to one of the producers, Dennis, to get everything fixed and taken care of. So it was just a mess. I've been wanting to get veneers for quite some time.

So then the breakup happens. And Rob Grinkowski, as you guys know, a friend on the show, he has been on an episode, reached out, and he's like, you know what you need during this breakup? You need a new smile, and I got the guy for you. And so Rob introduced me to Dr. Omar, and here I am now getting those composites fixed, and I am doing a full set on the top 18th.

So I want to walk you through that whole process. for me it was yes cosmetic why not but also functionality because my teeth were really chipping every single time so let's first because i know this is where money mafia really wants to go with this episode composites they're more affordable and for people that could not afford veneers or crowns or a new smile would you recommend it why or why not i don't recommend composites first of all From an aesthetic standpoint, initially, I'm not going to sit here and give a time frame, but initially over the next few months or whatnot, they might look okay, polished up really well and whatnot, but they stain, they chip, obviously, and they're just not, like if you're

looking to have a nice smile, you know, I would, I personally, I personally, have never done it and I don't recommend you doing composites honestly save the money even if it takes a little bit longer save the money and obviously come to me because it's going to be much cheaper than anywhere around but save the money and just do regular veneers or crowns okay and and the composite stain if you're a smoker if you drink wine if you smoke weed if you drink wine If you have coffee, all that stuff. Yeah, no, no, no composites. No composites.

Okay, so when I got my composites, I think they were like $600 bucks. They served a great purpose for eight weeks or whatever. Problem is they kept breaking and breaking and breaking. So it's a little band-aid. It does not do anything, right? Okay. So you would not recommend composites. So I think I got five or six teeth done.

Does $600 sound right for composites? Or is that cheaper? What would you say? Like $4 to $60. That's average. Okay. That's average. on average. Okay. Yeah, it's average. All right, but Doc, it advises against that. Okay, now walk

me through, there's veneers and these crowns, didn't know the difference, have now done a little research on it. Talk to me about what the process of veneers are and what, how much on average someone should pay per tooth for a veneer. Again, it depends on the demographics and where you live and veneers or crowns, all charge anywhere between, I don't know what, I mean, you want to hookup price or what? No, I want, we want that. We want that you're retail price for it. The retail price for crowns and veneers is anywhere between a thousand to 1500 a tooth in this area. Okay. Now, what is going to be the difference between a veneer in a crown? I always say veneers are like your fake fingernails that you put on your finger nails.

They're more prone to chipping. They're more prone to falling off. They're more prone for a little bit more staining. The difference between the two is veneers. You shave the front of the tooth. And then you stick them on there. You glue them on there. Crowns, you shave the tooth 360 all the way around. And you glue them on there. The same. way um crowns are a lot stronger okay i've never like very rarely do they ever come off veneers i've done thousands of veneers and they can be annoying i can't you know i got to be honest with they're going to be annoying i mean if you want something that's going to last what do you mean though annoying why don't when you say that you know let's say you want to bite your nails are going to be afraid to bite your nails you're going to be afraid to bite into an apple or or bite into a carrot or just because they're not as strong they're not strong okay it's not a stone i mean crowns are way stronger and you can let's just say you you know you have some crowding in the teeth or

spacing in the teeth and you want to close gaps or make teeth straighter you can manipulate the smile much more and achieve a better result in doing the crowns because you can shave off more of the tooth from different angles to straighten them up, for example. Got it. Okay. So with veneers, it's more of like almost a fake nail press on. You're going to see the front of the tooth, but the back of the tooth is not adjusted. With a crown, you're going to get a full tooth front and back. Yes. What about this? So same price point in Tampa Bay. Retail price. You come down here,

let's say it's 1,500 to 2K, so you do 8 teeth, 2 times 8, that's going to be 16K. let me ask you about this. I have heard that veneers from just aesthetics will look less like they are kind of like a fake tooth and crowns. Do you agree or disagree with that? No, veneers can look very nice. But I'm saying will crowns look less aesthetically pleasing than veneers? No. They won't. Ask Rob. Okay. Yeah, we see Rob on Fox News. Go see that beautiful smile. Yeah, you know he's good.

Okay, tell me about the process, though. So I can tell you a little bit of what I did. By the way, got Novakane, best Novakain shock giver in the entire world right here. Then you drill my teeth down. I can explain to people that are confused of what it means to get veneers. Talk just a little bit about the process if they're thinking about it. Yeah, so basically we numb you up. And then if we go the veneer out, we shave the front of the teeth down. We make you a nice set of temporaries, as Jason has some temporaries. Yeah, we make a nice of temporaries a week, two weeks later, we pop the new ones in and that's it. Same thing goes with crowns. You just numb you up, you know, shave minimally. I'm very conservative. There's a lot of patients that tell me, well, you're going to shave my tooth down to a peg or like a tree stumper.

No, I do as minimal as possible. Okay. So whether it's a crown or a veneer, I mean, veneer a little bit, you have to be a little bit more meticulate or how much you shave off because, again, there's not much retention with a veneer. With a crown you have, the whole tooth is holding the crown with a veneer, it's just like sticks on there, just on the front. It's not much retention. Yeah, I think it's a, I think it's a really good trade secret here. You're hearing it from Dr. Omar, go crown as opposed to veneer if you're going to get this process done. Same price, higher functionality and you still look aesthetically extremely good now for me one of the issues is when you looked at my teeth i had two teeth that functionally were literally about to break i think you had

someone had mentioned or the hygienist was like these are these two teeth were one or two bites from break in so i'm glad i got it done but talk to me about this today i go back in the office we're going to actually put the new set on so i will send you i'll show you guys some pictures out there how long will those last me when do i have to go back to get new crowned What are you right now? How old are you? I'm 34. I'll be 35 in a week. Don't rub it in. Hopefully, you know, hopefully they'll last you forever. Stop it. Forever?

Pending, you know, I see patients that I do this stuff on and they brush your teeth once a week. Who does that? Floss once a month. Well, that ain't going to last forever. They're going to on that. You got to treat them like your regular teeth. You got to brush and floss. That's it. Period. I mean, I'm not saying you got to go to the dentist every month and have them clean. But, I mean, they could possibly last you forever. Forever. Okay.

But veneers are not the case. That's not the case, right? Veneers, it's usually like 10, 20 years, they say. And is that because they're less durable? Less durable, less retention. Less retention. Okay. All right, we have some questions.

The Money Mafia is our listening group. We had a bunch of questions come in. So I am just going to fire off a bunch of these. questions. Okay. So, and then we'll wrap up here in just a minute. But can Invisaline fix a crossbite? Yes. Okay. There you go. How much do dental assistance make per hour? Dental assistants make anywhere between $19 to $30 an hour. How much should retainers cost? Five to $700 to $700. Okay. I am a dentist. I would love to hear his perspective and experience with student loans. I had to take $500,000 and I'm wondering if it was worth it.

I mean, to be honest with you guys, I was fortunate enough to have amazing parents to where I didn't have to take out any loans. I don't know much about loans. My daughter just graduated dental school back in May. Again, she was fortunate enough. She doesn't have loans while 99% of her class have loans. I mean, you have to do it.

I mean, if you got to take a loan, you got to take a loan. My takeaway from it is if you got to take a loan, take a loan. But also, once you become a dentist, become entrepreneurial. Pay that, pay that shit back. Well, pay that shit back, pay it back fast, but open up a practice. Like, become your own boss. You're going to make more than working for the corporations. The problem is, the problem is with a lot of these students that have $500,000 in loans.

You come out of dental school, then you got to pay back every month. I don't even, God only knows how much. And then on top of that, you're going to go open up another dental practice for another, you know, 700,000, and tack on to your loans. Yeah. It's a little bit more interesting and challenging when you have half a million dollars in loans. So I would say pay back $250,000 of that loan as fast as you can because the interest sucks. Yeah. And then I would say focus on paying back your loan within the first five to seven years of your practice. Okay.

And then go do your thing. Go do your thing. So take your education, get your experience, take the money that's coming in from big corporate, pay down your loans, be diligent with what you're spending so you can pay them down and then go do your thing. And then you'll have a palace here like Dr. Omar. Be frugal. Be frugal. You'll go to one of these corporations and you'll give you a sign. on bonus for $20,000 to $30,000 and, you know, and you're going to get excited and no, save that

money. Take that $20, $30,000 bonus, whatever you get. Put it towards your loans. Keep driving your mini cooper. I like that. Best teeth whitener if you can't get veneers. How do you whiten your teeth the best way? Any suggestions?

Honestly, yeah. I've always been a fund of Zoom whitening. Okay. You come in the dental office and you get. Your teeth went in by the light. It takes a couple hours. And that's where I've seen the best result. Cost-wise, you're looking anywhere between $4 to $600.

Okay. Someone had asked that they just straight up said, do Dennis lie about how bad your teeth are to get more money from you? Some. Some. And so suppose I had a dentist that did lie to me to get more money. What are some lies they might tell me? Lies.

I'll tell you have a cavity here. I've seen patients even locally from dentists around this area, they'll come in and they'll say, this dentist tell him you need eight crowns or nine crowns, and then he comes to my chair and I diagnose and he only needs two crowns. Yeah. I mean, they just over-diagnose, a lot more aggressive. Bullshit. I mean, it's just the way it is.

And so the only trading secret to then get around that would be to go get another opinion. Go get a second opinion. Okay. We have another one that came in. I could see through my teeth. They're transparent. I could see through them. Why? What should I do? That means they're thin. That means they're thin. And if you can see through them, that means you could be a grinder. You're grinding your teeth away, whether it's stress related, whatever it is. And I don't know the age, how old you are, but, you know, consult with a dentist. In that case, again, if you could see through your teeth, I would recommend you. thinking about putting crowns. Okay. Because crowns are going to fully protect you there. What about someone that asked about infection underneath a crown?

Is that pretty rare? And if so, how is that taking care? Infection underneath a crown. Decay underneath a crown, which is a cavity underneath a crown. That is possible. As I stated earlier, when we put your crowns in and you come to visit my office a year from now and you're not brushing. your teeth or flossing and whatnot, there's absolutely a chance you're going to get decay

underneath the crown. I mean, if your oral hygiene is not sufficient, absolutely, you can still get decay underneath a crown. Now, if the dentist did the crowns on you and the crowns are not sealed and done correctly, then they could, you know, cause leakage and get a cavity underneath that ground. Okay, got it. That is good to know. I just have a couple more for you and then we'll be on our way from the money mafia but the next one was about wisdom teeth they've gotten this person said that they have gotten so many different price points for wisdom teeth removal do you have a price point if you get this dollar amount that should be a decent amount again wisdom teeth removal is another thing i mean the wisdom teeth if the wisdom

teeth are protruding through the gums and they're showing they're exposed and they're you know easy one, two, three, no insurance. You're looking at about $300 a tooth. Oh, really? I thought it'd be way more than that. So you get four wisdom teeth done somewhere between that $300 to $400? Again, as I, you know, if they're exposed and now, now if they're impacted and buried below the gum, it's a whole different story. The bone, obviously price fluctuates by a couple hundred dollars. Okay, got it. Good to know. And the last one we haven't covered is TMJ. What solutions do you think that people should pursue for TMJ? Does insurance cover any type of dental work on TMJ?

Yeah, insurance will help with TMJ. Now, again, a lot of patient and a lot of people out there say, my TMJ, TMJ, TMJ, it's not really TMJ is, it means temporomandibular joint. So we all have TMJ, temporal mandibular joint. It's called TMD, Tempromandibular Disorder, where you have problems in your TMJ, meaning clicking, locking your jaw, pain, arthritis, and a lot of those disorders in the temporal mandibular joint are resolved by a night guard, a bite guard, a deep, and what we call an anterior deprogrammer to relax your temperamentabular joint, are resolved by a night guard, a bite guard, a deep, and what we call an anterior deprogrammer to relax your temperamandibular muscles. But as far as like fixing TMD via surgery, I highly disadvise from that because your TMJ will never be the same again. TMJ will never be the same again. So you would recommend one of the guards and how much do the

guards cost? Between $3 to $400. Okay. I do them for almost a all the football players just because, you know, of their, of what they do and they're always grinding and whatnot. So I do them all the time. Okay, last question I got for you. You have done dental work for a lot of celebrities. You've done dental work for a lot of football players, hockey players, a lot of people out there. He's the best in the business. Dr. Omar will put all his contact information in the show notes. So go check them out. Who has been, who's been the biggest baby in the big seat? You know, who's been the softest? Who's been the most scared when they come in getting work done the worst that's a tough one Mike Evans that's amazing sorry Mikey

that's unbelievable he's been hit from the hardest people in the world he's worried about a little needle coming in yeah they all hate the needle but you I hate the needle I took it was pretty good I had a Xanax but I didn't give a shit I was like not even faced I was like hit hit me baby but this is this guy right here Dr. Omar is one of the best in the business I'm excited to get these teeth done. I will show you on the YouTube the before and after. You can go the Trading Secrets podcast page. You can see the before and after. It will all be there. And you could reach out to Dr. Omar and he'll tell you where. We'll get his trading secret. And also, stay tuned. We are working on a giveaway. If you hear veneers, if you hear crowns and you are saying

to yourself, that is something I've always wanted. We are working on giving a free set away. It's not finalized yet. But when it is, you'll want to make sure that you are following Dr. Omar. you're following us and trading secrets. So more to come on that. We have to end with this. It's a trading secret. It's the name of the show. It's something that people could only learn from you and not from anywhere else as it relates to either being a consumer in the dentist industry, working in the dentistry, anything that we should know about the place and space that we don't know that we can only learn from you. Trading Secret with Dr. Omar. What can you give us as consumers? I would say if you go visit a dentist, whether, you know, it looks qualified or it doesn't look

too qualified, always get a second opinion and a second quote for the services needed because it could be minimal, but a lot of times it could be very worth it, well worth it, probably save quite a bit of money. So I would always get two opinions and two estimates. And visit the dentist at least, you know, if you don't want to get a cleaning every six months, visit the dentist once a year, get a cleaning at least once a year. Obviously, you know, we always say every six months for, you know, for those kids out there, take them, have a consult by your general dentist or by the orthodontist as soon as they lose their primary teeth and they have all their adult teeth, have them evaluated for, you know, braces or whatnot, just stay on top of it, man. Yeah, just it sounds like the more proactive you are, the better off you'll be. The earlier you do things, the more consults, the more that you mean.

I'm going to be honest with you guys. Every person I've ever met, the first thing I look at when I talk to them, sit with them, et cetera, whether it's a business meeting or just for fun or whatever. First thing I look at is a smile. Yeah, that's true. In their breath and. Yeah. All right, before I wrap, best thing you can do with your breath.

Best thing you can do with your breath? Brush, floss. There's so much bacteria that accumulates in between the teeth that causes bad breath. Not only is it on your tongue, brush your tongue, obviously, but that bacteria always sticks in between the teeth and on your tongue. So make sure you floss and brush. use, you know, a good mouth wash and you'll be good to go. All right. Well, I have coffee breath right now, so hopefully you can't smell it from here. But Dr. Omar, thank you for being on this

episode, Trig Secrets. Where can be able to find everything about your practice, your Instagram, everything, if they have questions for you, where can they come? Instagram. Dr. Omar 23. Dr. underscore Omar underscore 23. You can ask him all the questions. This guy has 300,000 plus followers. He is in the game. He's working with the big celebrities. He gave him. you information and trading secrets that Dennis are not providing you. As far as school, braces versus invisibleine, TMG, TMJ, TMD. We heard all about veneers versus crowns, what I'm going through. So I'm telling you, it's been one of the best experiences I have had with

Dr. Omar. Go to his website and check out and wait for this giveaway. We're going to do something really cool and it starts by following him. So Dr. Omar, thank you for being on this episode, Trink Secrets. Thank you. I appreciate you. Thank you. You are the man. You're changing smiles by the day, baby. Thank you. Love you guys. While making a shit ton of money, I'll do it. Thanks for being on. Ding, ding, ding. We are closing in the bell, not with the curious Canadian in Rochester, New York, but we are closing in the bell with two of my extremely close friends, born and raised in Rochester, New York. We went to school together at SUNY Geneseel, both played soccer there.

Now these two studs have grown into quite the professionals that time perfect. for this episode with Dr. Omar. We have Dr. Ian Mort, his handle, I-Mort 5. He is a dentist at Brentwood Dental Arts. And we have Dr. Joe Mort, who is an oral surgeon at OMS Nashville. That's the IG handle, and his IG handle is J.R. Mort. They have already said if you have any questions, you can reach out to them. But guys, no David Ardoin, no Curious Canadian.

We have a general dentist and we have an oral surgeon, both very close friends of mine. Boys, welcome to the recap. Thanks for having us. I'm curious Canadian. A lot to live up to. A lot to live up to. They both know David. As David also went to college with us.

Have you guys ever been on a podcast before? This will be a first time for me. I have not. Now, Dr. Omar is a beauty, but, you know, I feel like you dentists are all monotone. Do you think you guys are monotone? A little boring guys or what? I don't know. I'm a pretty boring guy.

All right. But I'll try not to be on this one. All right. Before we get into it, let's have some fun with this. We all went to college together. how would you describe me in college? We'll get to the dental stuff here. Sure, sure. Work hard, play hard, I guess. All right. I'm going to have to pay him for that. You two have come a long way from Geneseo, now an oral surgeon and a general dentist, both married with beautiful kids and

beautiful families. Let's get into this. We heard Omar's trading secret. I want to actually start off with what your trading secret would be when it comes to the dental business for our listeners and the Money Mafia back home. So Dr. Eamort, let's start with you. What would your trading secret be if you were the main guest on this episode? Omar's was good. I mean, getting a second opinion and really I kind of want to just expand on that. I think really what he was getting at was about finding trust. Trust in our business is massive. A lot of anxiety around the idea of going to the dentist. So if you need to visit one or two or even three, just to kind of get a good feeling about the procedure that you might be going through, some dental pain or anxiety that you might

be going through. So not necessarily my own trading secret, but just kind of expanding on his with the idea of finding someone that you really can trust from a doctor-patient relationship. Okay. That's a good one that like piggyback right off what Dr. Omar said. Dr. Joe Mort, oral surgeon what would you say your trading secret would be i also think it's similar i think omars was good and i agree with i think establishing rapport and comfort and trust with your your practitioner is important and there are a lot of ways that people market themselves you know social media tv radio billboards all that kind of stuff but i think the most important way to get set up with somebody is through direct word of mouth, direct referral from a peer, from a parent, from a family member,

a friend, getting plugged into somebody that the people around you trust is probably going to get you in the chair that you're going to be the most comfortable. Okay. So with Dr. Omar, I got referred to by Nate Ruckdashel. Shout out Big Nate and Rob G. Rob Grinkowski, both of them raved about him in his work. So I'll ask you guys, if I'm sitting here in Nashville, and obviously I go to you, Ian Moore, is my general dentist. But what should someone do? You say trust, right? If someone back home right now just move to a new city because they got a new job or they're just in a new place or they need a new dentist, like what is a place you can go for trust? We know things like in the car business we've talked about, places you can go for trust. If you want to find a financial

advisor, there's broker checker, there's places, websites. You could like get background. Like, what should I do? Number one tip if I'm trying to find a dentist and I want, to believe in them and I want to have trust in them. Yeah, that's a great question. And I think something that the average patient probably wonders about when they're looking for a dentist. I know my practice, we strive to have a pretty good Google business profile. Everyone goes to Google when they're looking for a dentist. Dentist near me is basically the number one search for that. So we kind of pride ourselves on having really good Google reviews, kind of asking our patients for that and we feel like that speaks for our practice. So that could be a good place to kind of send

a patient when they're looking for a new dentist. Okay. Anything from you, Dr. Joe Moore, when it comes to finding like anything specific you can do to know that your dentist or health care provider is credible, is trustworthy? Yeah, I think like I mentioned before, it's finding, you know, word of mouth referral. But I think if you're concerned about a particular dentist or you just want to do a double check, there are things like the better. business bureau or your state dental board that you can communicate with, reach out to, and get information on different dentists or specialists in your area. I love it. Referrals and go to the credible sources that have those reviews. Now let's get into insurance. We talked a little bit about

Medicaid. We heard Dr. Omar is not taking Medicaid because of the profitability with it. Or actually said that Medicaid pays really well, but he's private practice because of some of the profitability. We talked a little bit about PPO insurance. I'll be honest when it comes to anything financially related. Insurance is my biggest weakness. So, Doc, tell me this. I go into a new office. I don't know shit about my dental insurance. What should I do? How do I proceed as a patient? Asking questions about your insurance and its specific coverage is absolutely something patients should be doing when they're entering any dental office. Also talking to the insurance company, making sure they're providing you with information with regards to your exact coverage.

I know you guys spoke with Omar about the PPO. That kind of dictates who some patients can see based on the plan that they have. So a patient having an understanding of a specific doctor or dentist being in their network is really important. And again, that's something that could build trust with an office if you're going to that office. if they're very clear about what insurances they take, being able to describe to you as a patient, what exactly your coverage and plan will help you out with. It's just another positive aspect to that practice that you might want to take into account

because it can be very confusing. Okay. From an oral surgeon perspective, any other takes on insurance or things as a patient or even just people in the industry should know? Well, for example, in my practice, so we have multiple locations. across Middle Tennessee and around the national area, and so we see a lot of different demographics of patients. And so for that reason, we do take a lot of different kinds of insurances. And one thing we do for our patients, when you come to our office and we see you for

a consultation and develop a treatment plan, on the front end, before you even come to our office, we verify your insurance benefits, which I think is important for anywhere you're going to be going to do. You want them to verify that they accept your insurance and verify that you do have active benefits. And then once you have a treatment plan, we have a treatment coordinator in each one of our offices that will go over your benefits with you before you leave the office that day and give you an estimate, not only our particular fees, but give you an estimate based on your insurance, your coverages before you leave the office so you have that information. So I think it's important that you know going into it, that you're accepted at that particular practice,

they're in network with you, or if they're out of network, you have out of network benefits, and then communicate with the front office staff and the doctor when you're there, as opposed to just them saying something like, hey, yeah, you know, this is our treatment plan. You pay up front and then we'll, you know, file your insurance after. You know, that's kind of something that you don't really know what you're getting into there. So I think verifying your benefits and communicating all that on the front end is important. Okay, perfect. So it sounds like what you have to do then is work with the front office, work with the insurance

companies, and good front offices will actually do the legwork for you back home. So if you are in Nashville, Brentwood Dental Arts, OMS Nashville, I'm going to ask you guys for too proactive. I know we talk a lot about health care and just overall hygiene care here. We have an oral surgeon and a general dentist. Two proactive things that we can do back home to make sure that we are preventing cavities probably in your case, and I would imagine infections or even when it comes to wisdom to things that we could do preventatively to think through it. Let's start with you,

Dr. Ian Mort, General Dennis, what is one thing proactively we should know and we should be doing every single day? Good home care is the foundation of someone's good oral health. I kind of like to say to my patients that you see us every six months for cleaning, but you're with you every day. So, you know, the work you're putting in at home really is the most important part of your, a general patient's oral health. Flusing. It's the number one thing that Dennis get kicked back for. It's a massive part of someone's oral health.

Convinced me, though. Like, okay, because realistically, back home, guys, give us five stars. Let us know in the reviews. Do you floss every day? Because, like, I would say I floss once every four days. Like, realistic, maybe once every three days. When you hear that, are you like, oh, shit? Like, do you get worried?

Like, give me the truth on flossing. The truth would be, no, I don't worry. Life is busy. I understand what I would say to a patient that says they floss once every four days is it's better than once every five days. And it's not, maybe not as good as once every three days. And we understand that everyone's busy, life is happening around you. And some of the things I say to patients with regard to that is it takes about three

to four weeks to create a habit. Go get floss at the store, the little bag of the floss picks, It costs about $4.99 at CVS. Put them in your car. Put them in your bathroom. Put them in your book bag and purse. Create a habit of it. It'll come second nature after a month. And if you can be doing it every day, it does really make quite a difference. Before I go to Joe, oral surgery, when we talk about wisdom tea, things like that, Listerine. Do you have like a take on that? Good, bad, and different. Good. Good for fresh breath. Specific patients probably require specific mouthwash. So kind of read the label. If you've got dry mouth, maybe staying away from

ones with alcohol that can kind of further cause dry mouth. So maybe alcohol free. But got to have fluoride. Has to have fluoride. And if you're doing a mouth rinse, that's kind of one of the main components when it comes to flooding cavities that your dentist want to see. That's great piece of advice. Dr. Joe Moore oral surgeon. I got my wisdom teeth out late. They were impacted. One was missing. Don't even know where it went. Who knows? With the procedures that you do, whether it's wisdom, teeth, or whatever the majority of your work is, is there anything that we should know as patients that can prevent us from seeing an oral surgeon sooner than we might need to? Yeah, I mean, just like a dentist is going to harp on brushing and flossing as, you know,

the most preventative thing you can do to avoid decay and periodontal disease, for an oral surgeon, the most common things we see that are preventative in nature are infections, like you mentioned, or issues with developing or impacted wisdom teeth, or in later life, infected wisdom teeth. So I think you hit it on the head when you said, I got my wisdom teeth out later in life. The most important thing with regards to your wisdom teeth is having them evaluated when you're in your kind of mid to late teenage years. Those are the years when the teeth are still developing. And removing them in those years is easier of a procedure. It's an easier recovery. It's less risky. And overall, the results are much more positive than people who

have their wisdom teeth out later in life. So I think that's the most important thing. Can you live with your wisdom teeth not being taken out? Some people can for sure. If you have enough room in your jaws and they erupt into the mouth and they function like your other molars, you can certainly use them. It then becomes a hygiene issue. And if you can maintain them and you can clean them and brush and floss around them, you can have them for a lifetime. But the majority of people don't have enough room in their mouth for them. Okay, good to know. While you got the mic, Mr. Dr. Oral Surgeon, we talked money on this podcast. We heard a little bit about Dr. Omar's practice. I want to get your take because I was surprised knowing conversations I've had with you.

You know, my grandfather was an endodontist and a professor at UBDental School. He had said general practice is what will be the most lucrative. I was confused by that. To me, that caught me off guard. From an oral surgery perspective, do you have a take? Yeah, I think statistically, that's probably incorrect when you're talking about specialists compared to a general dentist. I think if you look at the statistics and you can Google it or go on the ADA website or whatever it may be, talk to people. I think in general, specialists are going to be paid more than a general dentist. I think what he's really referring to and where he probably makes a good portion of his income is the fact that he owns seven practices.

And he's not necessarily making that income directly as a practitioner, but as a businessman. You know, he can't be in all seven practices at once. So he's, of course, having associates and hygienists and staff in those offices producing income. And so from a business perspective, he's certainly generating more income. But no, I think, you know, when you're talking about the most lucrative sub-specialties of dentistry, it's going to be your oral surgeon, your orthodontist, most likely, you know, and then endodontists and periodonists and things like that. I mean, it's good to know, especially because on a business podcast. We talk a lot about owning versus operating, right? If you're operating as a

W-2 or whatever it is that you're doing, where the real money comes in is owning and then you become business owner. Dr. Omar is a dentist in a very good one. Did great work on all my teeth, but he's also a massive businessman. So with seven practices, he scaled effectively. Talk to me about this. Oral surgery, you go into that specialty. Out of school, on average, give me a roundabout number. what can you expect to make? And at the pinnacle of your career, for most oral surgeons, what can they expect to make? Yeah, I think a lot of oral surgeons. So our training is a little bit more extensive. We go through the four years of undergrad, the four years of dental school, and then between four and six years of oral surgery training after dental school. So it's

quite a long time to do that. So, you know, most of the time people get not a residency are in their early 30s, sometimes later than that. And so we start our careers off a little later. but you could expect an oral surgeon leaving residency as a first year private practice doctor to make around $300,000 to $400,000. Okay. And then, of course, you know, depending on the involvement you get into your business and things like that, growing the business, that can certainly go up from there. The other thing I was going to mention is that there's a huge benefit over time

to being a private practitioner that owns your own business versus something that works for a corporation or something like that. Okay. And at the pinnacle of your career as an oral surgeon, like what did you say on average? I mean, you could approach seven figures. Yeah. You know, especially if you're like Omar owning multiple practices and all that kind of stuff. Depends on the structure if you own it, what you're doing, how you're doing it.

But it's good to get an idea of like where, on average, you see people starting and like where they can reach. From a general dentistry perspective, can you add some insight to that, people that are considering that career track? Yeah. I think you guys mentioned when you were speaking about it, the general dentist average in the states, I think is around 170. I think that's a perfectly reasonable number with regard to some of the things that I've seen. And yeah, obviously, as far as peak, really has to do with that

ownership piece. That increases production. And then obviously with him being an owner of, you know, essentially seven small businesses that can really grow quite a bit from there. And he did even mentioned too, you know, starting off in corporate dentistry. Like Joe was saying, that is something that happens, especially with a lot of dentists coming out of school, working for a corporation first and then building towards ownership. And obviously that 170 when you're first coming out of school with regard to getting that first job, potentially a spot that is a corporate dentistry is pretty reasonable, but can certainly go up from there. Okay, this is a general question. I want to know if you guys had any comments or thoughts on any of the above. We talked about braces. We talked about

invisaline, the cost of them, implants, crowns, bridges, cavities. We talked a little bit about veneers and crowns, pretty much A to Z general cleaning all the way to extensive private cosmetic, pay-only private procedures. So my question to you is there, is there anything that we discussed there that you guys would want to shed some more light on, more insight or had any additional thoughts? I think his price points sounded reasonable. I do a lot more oral surgery-related stuff, so I don't necessarily know the fees for fillings and crowns and cleanings and stuff like that. From an implant perspective, I know that's sort of a hot topic in the world, a dentistry. Everybody's placing implants. Everybody wants implants. A lot of people are getting implants.

The numbers are just drastically increasing year over year in the whole entire dental field. But when you're talking about implants, you know, the normal fees for an implant are probably somewhere between $2,000 and $25, $2,600, somewhere in that range. And I think that's sort of a reasonable fee. Some dental insurances or more and more of them are starting to pick up coverage on implants. That's another contributor to why more and more of them are being placed. Patients are having some insurance coverage. So that's kind of a ballpark number for implants. Okay.

Dr. Eamore? Yeah, I mean, I think I would want to touch on what your experience was with composites versus veneers versus crowns. I know we discussed, and me being your current dentist here in Nashville, I saw your composite work. I remember when you got those done when you first went on the bachelor. And Dr. Omar spoke about that, too. They were a good kind of short-term solution.

And the thing that I would say is just because a patient doesn't necessarily have 16 to 20 grand to get eight crowns. It can't be an option that works for people. I've seen composites that that last quite a long time. I know that me working on you, I hope you don't mind me sharing. And that chipping, you know, taking a specific patient's bite into effect is really a large factor in how long some of those things last. I definitely would echo Dr. Omar's concerns with veneers and chipping, and I think he called them annoying. I can definitely relate to that. And certainly crowns being the much stronger and more long-lasting treatment. So just to kind of put a bow on really all of that, patient to patient in specific circumstance to circumstance, each can have, you know,

benefits. But I think he did kind of speak really well on that. So I kind of wanted to touch on that. But, you know, like you said too, in a short-term solution, those composites served you for a while too. So that can be a good solution for folks too. For sure. No, I'm glad you brought that up. you didn't have the chance to hear the intro, but I did talk about some of the issues I had with the composites. And I think, I'll say this, my takeaway from this is if you're going to do something cosmetic with your teeth, which is what I did, just think through the process of it. I kind of tried to half-ass it with composites as a result of half-assing it. When Dr. Omar went into my teeth, he saw that there was like some decay happening under the composite and like, you know, just he was like,

these composites, the one kept breaking over and over. And he's like, at some point, you were going to have to do something. The one that kept breaking, he's like, this is, this tooth is in a bad position. It was in a bad position because I originally got half-ass cosmetic work and I should have just done it the right way, the full way. I think my takeaway, not being a doctor, would be if you're going to do any type of cosmetic work with your teeth, like really think through the long term, right? Because I think cosmetically composites led me to a position where getting crowns was an option that was probably needed for at least one of the teeth for use and for cosmetic work.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's certainly something that your practitioner, if you're a patient out there and going to your dentist and thinking about doing this work, should take a new account, your age, you know, the way that your bite comes together. All these things really should be affecting the decision-making. that ultimately the patient, because patient autonomy is absolutely critical when it comes to cosmetic work, what you decide to do? The discussions that we had with regard to your cosmetic

work was, you know, if I have a 25-year-old that comes to me and says, I want to crown all eight of my front teeth on the maxway arch, it's a different conversation if a 50-year-old is coming to me with that same concern. So those are just kind of some of the things that not only you as a patient should be thinking about, but that you should absolutely be hearing from your dentist if you're having that consultation as well. I love it. That is great advice. We're going to end with this. One last question. Let's start with the oral surgeon. Dr. Joe Mort, if I don't say so myself, all American at SUNY Genesee of Division III soccer guy had a fucking canon of a left foot. All right. Here's the question. Can you negotiate with your oral surgeon? You give me a price point.

Can I negotiate? For some things, yeah. I think there are. certainly scenarios where we work with patients and we do a ton of pro bono work in our practice as well. But, you know, if you're talking about coming in to get out, you know, a couple of wisdom teeth or to get out some broken teeth and things like that, I think the majority of that's pretty straightforward. We take a lot of insurances. The fees are oftentimes set up by the insurance. We don't have a whole lot to adjust in a lot of those cases. But when you're talking about more extensive implant-related cases, you know, fixed hybrid all on fours. I say that. That's when people are talking about restoring a full arch or a full mouth of teeth with implants. You know,

that often comes down to private pay, you know. And so sometimes there's ways that we can try to help the patient out when it comes to the anesthesia, when it comes to the number of implants and all that kind of stuff. So I think, I think there's some level of negotiation that happens, you know, but again, it's medicine. It's not like going to buy a car. I think there, you know, I think one thing that people oftentimes don't necessarily appreciate is the level of overhead that some of our practices have and how expensive it is to run the practice. I think a general dentist overhead is somewhere around, what, Ian, 65, 70%. So, you know, when you talk about having a five or 10,000 our treatment plan you know the dentist personally is getting a small fraction of that and so and that

carries over to a lot of the specialties so you know it's a high overhead business it's an expensive business to run and so yeah there's some negotiating power but when it comes down to it because of that you know the the income needs to be made by the the practitioner as well so yeah circumstantial but clearly there's there's a little bit of room but also at the same point like you said, we're not slinging cars here. We're doing professional health care work. But let's go to general dentistry. Is there any negotiating power for patients?

It's a good question. I'm going to use it as an opportunity to highlight something I think it's becoming a lot more popular and something that I think a big piece of the patient population should know about. And that's basically in-house dental plans for patients that don't have insurance, don't have dental insurance. A lot of times you hear about like a cash discount at a dental, dental office, and that's essentially what an in-house dental plan is. I know a friend of ours

chance, shout-out chance, has a bit of an unconventional job, and he doesn't have dental insurance, and it was the first question he asked me when I met him, do you guys offer a cash discount? Yes, we do at our practice, and it does come in the form of an in-house dental plan. And again, when we kind of touched on insurance briefly, insurance companies, especially, you know, dental insurance being the kind of stepchild of medical insurance, it's only almost confusing on purpose for patients, and that can be very frustrating. We make it pretty easy, and a lot of times our in-house insurance plan, by the time patients have paid their premiums, is cheaper than even if they did have insurance. So that's certainly something

that as a patient, if you're without insurance, finding and asking those questions if you're looking for a new dentist, is a means to negotiate, especially if you're in a position where you don't have dental insurance. Okay, I have one last dumb question. It's a quick answer. Do dental practices, or even oral surgery offices do you guys offer financing yeah we do we do three months financing is kind of the number that we like to stay at but you know we also especially all of our administrative staff we're human beings and things happen to patients we have a lot of patients to come in in pain and x y and z and if we need to to kind of extend that number out to we we work with patients okay joe most of the time we don't for patients that do need financing we

We have a couple of secondary programs that we work with. One's called Care Credit and Lending Club, I think of the name of the two programs. And they offer maybe even interest-free financing. I don't know how it works on the company's ends, but we do have those financing options. Okay, cool. And this is my last question before we wrap up the recap.

It's a little bit more of a fun question. I've watched Crazy Net before. It gets kind of crazy in those hospital offices. I hear you people in the dental industry can get a little, you know, interesting. So tell me this. Tell me this. Dental school. Like, do you guys ever party in dental school?

Or is it strictly study? Like, what's like the dental school vibe? Like, you guys all just like book nerds or do you guys have fun? Like, what's the vibe there? I did a little bit, but I, like, wasted four years in Buffalo, just buried in the books. I knew I wanted to go into oral surgery. It's an extremely competitive subspecialty. and so I kind of buried myself in the books.

I got out there and had fun. I mean, you went to Niagara Falls a few times. Yeah, a couple times. But, yeah, there's some partying that goes on in dental school. Interesting. What do you got on that, Dr. Eumort? Yeah, I'll shout out my brother. He was a bit of a bookworm.

I lived with him two of the years that we were going to dental school together. And there's a price to pay for finishing number one in your class. I didn't necessarily finish number one in my class. I did pretty well. I always said that the dental social calendar was as robust as when we went to undergrad. There was literally a social chair at dental school, and I'm sure any dentists out there listening know what a post-gross party is. Gross anatomy is a class everyone takes your first year at dental school, and it's kind of the big class of freshman year, her first year, D-1 year.

So after those three exams, that first semester, there was always a big blowout party. I specifically We remember one being around Halloween time and, you know, some things on the chip strip. You know the chip strip, you know, the chip swap in New York. I like it. Yeah, so there was some party and that went on in dental school for sure. The post gross party. I'm going to have to sneak my way into one of those. Dr. Ian Moore, Dr. Joe Moore, two legends from SUNY Geneseo, both unbelievable soccer players

and now thriving here in Nashville, Tennessee. Dr. Eamort, where can people find you? My practice is Brentwood Dental Arts, Nippers Corner here in Nashville, Tennessee. Awesome. Joe works at OMS Nashville. OMS, Nashville. And I know you're a big influencer guy, right? So should people give you a follow?

Yeah, give me a follow. I think I got about 114 followers right now. So you can give me a follow. Help me out a little bit. Let's get him to 120 out there. I asked him what his Instagram handle was before we started. He goes, I have no idea. All right.

On that note, Dr. Omar, Dr. Ian Moore, Dr. Dr. Joe Moore, thank you for educating us on all things dentistry. This was an episode of Trading Secrets. Hopefully you couldn't afford to miss. Remember to give us five stars in the reviews. Let us know your biggest takeaway, who you want on for future episodes. And let me tell you what, we have some shit going down here at Trading Secrets. We have Sergio Garcia, the winner of the Masters. And you used to go head to head in battle with Tiger Woods now playing at Live. We have the one and only, Chris Harrison coming up, and many more.

So make sure you subscribe, follow, and get ready to tune into another episode of Trink so you can scan 4 to miss. You got anything else before you wrap, boys? Come see me or Ian if you need anything dental related. Otherwise, thank you, Jay. All right. Thank you guys for being here. Let's go have a glass of wine.

Have a little post-gross party over here. Making that money, money, pay on me. Making that money, living that dream.