Trading Secrets - The dermatology industry UNLOCKED with top US skincare influencer & dermatologist Dr. Shah and Cortina Health CEO, Dr. Maclellan! The $$$ behind the ever-changing industry revealed!

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

Episode Description: This week, Jason is joined by two medical professionals who are taking the dermatology industry by storm, Dr. Maneeb Shah and Dr. Reid Maclellan! Dr. Shah, better known as DermDoctor, is a board certified dermatologist with an expertise in medical, cosmetic, and procedural dermatology and partner at his own practice in North Carolina. You may know him from his social media posts, educating the public on various topics within the dermatology field, which has generated over 20 million followers between TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. Dr. Maclellan is a founder and CEO of Cortina Health which is an AI health company with a mission to give people across the country the ability to receive proper dermatology treatment that is simple, quick and affordable. In addition to that Dr. McClellan is an adjunct professor of plastic surgery at both Harvard Medical School and Boston Children’s Hospital.    Dr. Shah and Dr. Maclellan give insight to how to solve hair loss, what the best consumer hack is for plastic surgery, the importance of not budget or bargain shopping for filler, the reason why there is a shortage in dermatology, what the highest paying specialties are, how private insurance companies base their prices, how health insurance impacts the medical field, and the impact of financials that is affecting the future of the medical field - specifically student debt and the decreasing interest in the field. Dr. Maclellan and Dr. Shah also reveal the pros and cons for social media, why Dr. Shah would pick dermatology over social media, the origin story of how Dr. Shah and Dr. McClellan connected and how they are working together on Cortina Health, how Cortina Health works, how they differentiate from other telehealth doctors out there, and how cosmetic dermatology is for everyone. What are the top cosmetic procedures in dermatology? What is the most competitive specialty out of medical school? How is telehealth changing dermatology? Dr. Shah and Dr. Maclellan reveal all that and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!  Host: Jason Tartick Co-Host: David Arduin Audio: Declan O’Connell Guest: Dr. Shah & Dr. Maclellan Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast!  Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast  Youtube: Trading Secrets Facebook: Join the Group All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Welcome back to another episode of trading secrets and welcome to the pre-market trading segment. I'm going to tell you a little bit about what you can expect from today's episode, an update from the market and substituting as an update from my new book Talk Money to me, which you can pre-order now on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Target. It's $26. And literally the best compliment you can give me is just grabbing a copy. And I promise it will significantly impact your personal financial situation, whether you are single or in a relationship. It will prepare you to understand your money, to improve your money, and to talk money to your loved ones. Also in the pre-market trading segment, I'll give you a little update from my personal life.

But enough of that. Let's get into who you can expect today. We have Dr. Shaw and Dr. McClellanon. Dr. Shaw is one of the top U.S. skincare influencers in the United States. Haley Bieber, ranking one, I believe on the list, he was number three. He has millions of followers. He makes millions of impressions, but he's also a dermatologist by trade. He is a doctor.

So a creator with material, material credibility. You're also going to hear from Dr. McClellan. He is the CEO of Cortina Health, which you're going to learn all about, former Harvard grad. And also, you're going to hear his take on the industry. What's interesting about Dr. McClellan is he is a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant doctor and a genius businessman. So to see the two, the synergy of the two, makes for a perfect guest on trading secrets, whether you are a consumer in this space or maybe you're interested in going to school to be a dermatologist or work anywhere in health care or you have a loved one in this space,

this is like the health care and skin care industry episode unlocked. It's really a cool one. Now, talk money to me. So we are doing an eight city book tour, which completely sold out. It sold out in literally like eight hours, which is such an honor, such a blessing, and I'm so grateful. and we're looking to add more stops. If we add more stops, it'll likely actually be a podcast store where we do a live podcast. So if you had signed up for the book tour, please come.

I can't wait to see you. If you can't make it, there is a waiting list. So please make sure to give your ticket back. And if you're on the waiting list, we're going to do our best to add more spots in each area. And if you want to come and you're not on the waiting list, just join the waiting list. So there's a little bit of that. Now, in this book, you're going to learn about eight numbers. that you need to know when it comes to your personal finance and how to talk about those eight

numbers with your partner and examples of people that made massive mistakes, myself included, and how you can learn from them. One thing I want to give you in this intro is a retirement savings benchmark. Now, I have a whole section in there based on your household income and your age. It'll tell you where you should be based on how much you should have saved if you want to be set for retirement at the age that you desire to retire. And all that information is there. That's why I can't give it all to you. So if you know the age you want to retire, then you have an idea of your household income and, of course, know your age. I can promise you in this book. It will tell you if you're on track or not. But I will give you an example. If you are earning

$150,000 in your household and you're 35 right now, you need $330,000 as a saving benchmark. So if you're there, great. Are you invested in the right things? That's a question mark. Do you know who you're working with and how? That's a question mark. Those answers are in the book. If you're not there, I'll teach you how to get there in the book. So grab a copy of Talk Money to me.

And I'm also doing a giveaway right now where if you buy a copy from Target or Barnes & Noble and you send us a receipt at Trading Secrets at jason tarnock.com, I'm going to do a full cameo. If you have a question you want to ask or a shout out to someone on the cameo app, I think my rates around $120. So this book's $26 and you'll get a free cameo. so there's that but i can't wait to meet everyone on tour and truly feel grateful and excited about the impact that this book will have a little update from my personal life i am going to be in austin and the new york city this week very excited about it there are some shows i'll be taping for

i don't think i can share that information yet but when i can i will let you know and i'll be at the i heart podcast awards but i'll also be there with two fat styes because i got one on my lower lid on my right lid and left lid. So that'll be interesting, but you know what? I'll probably have some makeup on or something. I don't know what I'm going to do, but we'll have fun with it. Personally, I feel extremely fulfilled lately. I feel extremely grateful other than my two styles.

Life is great. It really is. I feel physically great, mentally great, and my happiness levels have been off the charts. Now, yesterday, I don't know if you saw the Oscars. I'm going to end with this because you know me. I love numbers, but the numbers around the Oscars in 2024 are fascinating. to me. 56.9 million was the total cost of the ceremony. The cost of the look for an A-list

actress attending the Oscars, $10 million. 33% of this year's Oscars nominees were women, which is the highest percentage in three years, which is super exciting. You know, we see everything from the red carpet, that 50,000 square foot red carpet, that Oscars red carpet, $24,700 to just put the carpet up. And if you want to... wanted to do an ad for the Oscars, the cost of a 30-second ad during the Oscars, 1.85 million, which is 73% less than the Super Bowl. So all exciting stuff. There is one I really like. The most expensive piece of jewelry ever worn at the Oscars was by Lady Gaga. It was a Tiffany's diamond and necklace at $30 million. A little update from what's going on in pop culture in the markets

and in my life. But without further ado, let's ring in the bell with Dr. Dr. Shaw and Dr. McClellan. Welcome back to another episode of Trading Secrets. Today, I am joined by two medical professionals who are taking the dermatology industry by storm, utilizing their unique approach with telehealth and social media. We'll talk a little bit about that. It's a hybrid we have yet to see on this show. Dr. Meneb Shaw and Dr. Reed McClellan.

Dr. Shaw, better known as Derm Doctor, is a board-certified dermatologist with an expertise in medical, cosmetic, and procedural dermatology and partner at his own practice in North Carolina. You may know him from his social media post educating the public on various topics within the dermatology field, which has generated over 20 million followers between TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube.

And Dr. McLennan is a founder and CEO of Cortina Health, which is an AI health company with a mission to give people across the country the ability to receive proper dermatology treatment that is simple, quick, and affordable. I think that will land with all of us, home, simple, quick, and affordable. In additional to that, Dr. McClellan is an adjunct professor of plastic surgery at both Harvard Medical School and Boston Children's Hospital. So how do two

medical professionals with different backgrounds and in different geographic locations end up investing in the same mission together? How do they take digital media and bring it to health care? It's a world we haven't talked about. Doctors, I'm so glad to have you on Trey Secrets. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having us on. Wild dichotomy we got going here, right? The world of social media, digital media meets healthcare. We're going to get into that money mafia before we do. Before we get into these stories and the business and everything, I want to take care of you guys back home because you heard me say some buzzwords there, skin care treatment, dermatology. We know that there's

some work of preventative hair loss. So I'm going to just come out swinging. Tips and tricks from the Docs, skin care or preventative hair loss, two major topics with multi-billion-dollar industries behind them, what can you give the listeners back home? I think skincare is a harder topic to tackle in like 30 seconds here, but hair loss pretty easy if you're talking about men specifically, oral finasteride, oral monoxide, are pretty much going to solve most hair loss issues. If you want a topical because you don't want to take pills and the topical solutions out there, which are usually a combination of monoxidil and fanasteride, are going to target most causes of hair loss.

All right, that's pretty good. Confession, I take finestriide. So I don't, I mean, I got a whole lot of hair. I got a whole lot of hair. How long have you been taking it? I've been taking it for like two years. Okay. Let me tell you what. My brother, I saw him taking it. I said, what is that? And my brother's gay and married. And he said, well, you know, Jake, it was a couple years ago. I saw everyone in the gay community had great hair. And I was like, what is going on? And I found out there was a

hack. There's a lot of preventative treatment going out there. So he started taking finasteride. And I'm like, well, I don't want to lose my hair. So I start taking finasteride. I mean, are there things to be concerned about if you do take finastery for anyone back home? That's the question I was going to ask you. Did you have any side effects? Because I think a lot of men, they want to keep their hair, but then they hear a lot of myths about different side effects. And maybe some of them are true. Some people do truly have side effects with the deacon. Libito, inability to get erections, some mood changes in men coming out of the South American literature. I personally take finasterite. I also don't have any side effects with me either. And if

you talk to most dermatologists, most plastic surgeons, a lot of us are taking finasteride and monoxide ourselves. And I don't really see side effects of my patients. But when you look at the population studies, some people do report it. Yeah, I didn't have any three of those. And then I also, maybe this was a myth. I heard it could impact like potential sperm count. Is that? Yeah. So there is, they show decreased sperm counts in some people that are using it. But once you stop it, it doesn't affect it long term. And so if you are trying to get pregnant or you're having difficulty getting pregnant, it could be reasonable to stop finasteride temporarily.

Okay. Interesting. That is good to know. I did get my sperm tested. I'll talk about that in the recap. We're good. Four possible side effects, none of them. So I'm going to keep taking finastride. As an adjunct professor in plastic surgery, could you give any trading secrets to our listeners

back home about from a consumer perspective, maybe some things to think about when it comes to plastic surgery, maybe some things that we wouldn't know we could only learn from someone that's in the space. It's also a professor in the space. I think that the number one consumer hack there is, first off, make sure you're going to a plastic surgeon. There's a lot of different buzzwords out there, both in the plastic surgery as well as a dermatology space. You're a lot of people, especially in the teleworld, talk about dermatology providers. those aren't they may be but they're not necessarily like dr shaw a board certified dermatologist that's gone through the educational training gone through the testing and always stays up to date with continuing education always i mean look at how it is chammed off all those facts just like that you know it's exactly what's doing and that same regard in plastic surgery there are some individuals that are cosmetic surgeons those people most likely have not done a board certified plastic surgery residency or fellowship. I'm not saying they're not good, but if you're looking for the best of the best,

just always know who you're going to. So do your education, reading their bios, and understanding their entire educational background. Okay, that is great, great advice. Some of the treatments that we're seeing out there, at least like if I had to say, what are the top five things cosmetically that are getting done? And you guys could correct me if I'm wrong. My guess would be the following. I would think Botox, filler, facelift, a breast implants, and, I don't know what butt job would be, what you would call that, Brazilian butt lift. Brazilian butt lift.

There's a technical term. Those I would think are like the top five. Within your worlds, are those the top five? I would definitely say in dermatology, and we don't do surgical facelifts or breast augmentation, but in dermatology, I would say number one would probably be neuromodulators, which is your Botox, your dysport, Zamin, dachsify, those to stop wrinkle formation,

to control wrinkles is probably the number one cosmetic. It's actually the gateway a lot to a lot of other procedures. The satisfaction rate with neuromodulator specifically is extremely high above 90%. And so a lot of people then, that's their first introduction to any cosmetic procedure. And then after that, they try other things. We do a lot of, see, my thought is with cosmetic procedures is that it really should look like no one has done anything. You should just look healthy.

You should look youthful. And when you can tell something has been done, then, my opinion, it's been done wrong or it's been overdone. And so there are a lot of things that a lot of people get that you'll just never hear about, like, different laser procedures that are just rejuvenating. They give you that healthy glow. They eliminate wrinkles, but no one can tell you got anything done. So we do a lot of micronealing. We do a lot of CO2 laser, herbium laser, clear and brilliant. We do a lot of radio frequency micrnealing. You may have seen Morpheus 8 become really popular. So all those things are done, but you can't tell that anyone was there and so you

don't hear as much about them. Okay. Interesting. I think that's a really good take. If you can't notice it, it's done perfectly, right? I think it's a really good take. One of the things we talk about training secrets is a lot is like dollars and cents. For people that just have no idea, could you give an approximate, I don't know, like min-max average for some of those procedures that you would expect? So if you wanted like a unit of Botox, like how much should that cost around? Or if you did want breast implants or facelift, like around, how much are those procedures?

Yeah, I'll let him talk about the plastic surgery side of things. There is a range, and it really a lot of times depends on geographically where you are. A unit of Botox is going to be more expensive in New York than it is going to be in, let's say, Nashville. Sure. But not hugely different because the cost of goods for the practice is a fixed cost most of the time. And so that's going to be stable across every geographic area. It's not like if you're in New York and you're buying Botox from Allergan, it's not going to be more expensive for you than if you're buying Botox from Allergan in Nashville. The thing is that your overhead is a little bit cheaper.

Your staff is a little bit less expensive. And so you can offer a unit and also like what are people willing to pay in that area. Sure. So I would say anywhere from $10 a unit to $20 a unit, usually about 15 being the average nowadays. And the amount of units you need depends on how much work you need to get done. Now, I wouldn't do like budget or bargain shopping for something like this, especially filler. Like Botox, the side effects are a little bit. They only last three months or so.

But when it comes to filler, you could get necrosis, you can get blindness. And a lot of times what we see in dermatology, we see the worst of it all. And so a lot of people will go to a med spa where the people are in. There are a lot of med spas where people are trained really well. But in some medspas, they're not overseen by board-certified dermatologists, board-certified plastic surgeons. And a lot of people end up getting necrosis, and they don't have the treatment for an occlusion.

Okay. And then they end up sending them a dermatologist to basically save the day. And so you just, like Dr. McClellan said, you really want to know who. who you're going to see, and if you're going to see somebody who's not a board-certified dermatologist, ask them the primary question, if there is an issue, do you have the treatment to reverse that issue? Oh, that's a very basic, like, 101 question that we can all take away. If there is an issue, do you have the solution to reverse the issue? That's a big question to ask. How about some of those other procedures, dollar points, would you say, I don't know, on average?

Yeah, so we're all talking cosmetic and aesthetic right now, right? So both in plastics and in dermatology we also do reconstruction or general so for dermatology for instance mose surgery which is skin cancer removal and everything now that's covered by insurance so that's a little difference we'll stay in the cosmetic side of things here so breast augmentation or facelifts once again it's a geography thing at the end of the day breast augmentations can go and this is a much larger range because you even though the breast implants or the cost of good is exactly the same once again, possibly buying from Allergan, the doctor and what they're charging for their services can scale from anywhere from on the low little men of $5,000 up to $20,000 for breast augmentation

depending on if you're in New York or L.A. and stuff. Face lifts really kind of the same where you're looking anywhere between 10 to 15 upwards of, it can go up to 50,000 depending on where you are. And that's just for the surgeon's time. Unlike in dermatology that, fortunately, you don't have to be put to sleep, right, for a lot of what Dr. Shaw and other board certified dermatologists are doing. For surgery, you also have to pay an anesthesia fee. You have to pay a facility fee. And because this is all cosmetic, insurance isn't covering that. So once again, definitely do not budget shop, but know what, you know, know if this is a real investment at the end of the day. Interesting. Okay. That's always good to get dollar ranges. The transparency especially helps

the money mafia back home. As far as career track goes, when you look at earnings, whether it's dermatology or it's the cosmetic route, my limitation of understanding these industries and the depth is small. But which of these areas pays the most if you were to pursue them as far as areas of becoming a doctor? Because my understanding in dermatology, so this is where the question sparked from is that there's a U.S. shortfall. I saw that there could be a U.S. shortfall of 37,000, 124,000 physicians in dermatology over the next 10 years. And my thought process is, is that because of earnings potential? And then it got me curious about what is earnings potential within both of your respected fields.

Yeah, this is a great question. I think a lot of people will be curious about the answer to this. So the reason why there's a shortage is because training is capped by the U.S. government. It's not because, like, a lot of people want to be dermatologists, and it's actually the most competitive specialty out of medical school. Interesting. So the amount of people who want to become dermatologists far exceed. the amount of people that end up becoming dermatologists. And the reason why is because the government

allocates training spots and you can only do board certified training through a government sanctioned organization that gets their reimbursements from the government. So residents, so after medical school, you do a residency in a lack of people that want to do it or there's a lack of interest in it or there's a lack of actually even physicians. There's actually an overflux of people graduating medical school that can't get residency. So residencies, it's the U.S. issue. Interesting. What, what's the thought process there? They fund them, so they pay for them. Each slot costs the government about $120,000 or so. And so they just limit the amount. That's that standard, though, in other specialties, right? Every specialty. Every specialty is the same way.

This is residency. This is the American College of Graduate Medical Education. ACGME is where we go in CMS, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, or the government, saying HHS, that's who pays the hospitals to pay the residents. Okay, got it. Let me ask this then, more of a blanket question. Are there specialties that certain residents will pursue because of the earnings potential? And on a scale, what would you say are like the top five specialties? For income, probably the highest paying specialties, plastic surgery, I think, usually universally comes in number one.

Number two would be something like cardiology and orthopedic surgery, two and three. dermatology usually falls around like six or seven on the list it's usually not the highest but i would argue we have the best work life balance okay that's a big is that why we got to chuckle a little bit that i would say what we're talking is hard numbers are we talking quality of life it's good for the rio right yeah because dermatology no call right less time in in training and everything and it's it's a great it's a great life plastic surgery if you're a surgeon you have a blood lock time to do your OR. If the person before you, a complete different surgeon, is taking too long, you're just going to get pushed back later and later. And you're not going to cancel your surgery

because you have to operate on that patient at the end of the day. You got to take, it's not complications. It's just things happen to certain patients afterwards. You got to be ready to take care of those patients. So even if it's a hard dollar number of kind of the surgeries, the plastics, the orthos, the neurosurgeries, it's long hours at the same time. Okay. Give me, and then we're going to get into the business side, but I'm curious, the plastics, the neuros, the cardiology, surgeries, surgeons, like entry level, like mid-career point, high career point, won't hold you to it, but assume I'm on like next door, next door, glass door, whatever the hell it's called, glassdoor.com. I'm trying to get an understanding of what they make, like in that category.

What would you approximate? So dermatology is pretty unique. So because it's mostly based on how much you collect. So you usually, the model and most dermatology offices is that you get a percentage of your collections. Usually around 40% is the average. So if you bill a million dollars to Medicare, you would keep $400,000 of it, the 60% of it otherwise goes to overhead. So then you would make $400,000. I would say starting out, it actually doesn't like, medicine is one of those careers

where as you go through your career, you don't necessarily earn more. Oftentimes you earn less because you either work less or reimbursement's cut every year. It's the only field where, you know, lawyers, their reimbursement goes up every year, right? Because they say there's inflation. And so where billable hours are going from $400 an hour to $500 an hour, where the government controls the amount of reimbursement that you get per procedure. And so that actually goes down every year. What's for us back home that don't know? What does reimbursement mean? Reimbursement means that when you go to see me and you have insurance, right? And, you know, the amount that they're willing to pay for a visit,

it, right? Let's say it's $150, right, that they're willing to pay for it. Next year, they'll say it's $140. That you're after that, they'll say it's $130, right? So you don't, you see us, you pay maybe a co-pay, $20, you leave. And then the rest of it is collected from your insurance company. And your insurance company, they dictate the prices based on what the government is paying on Medicare. It's kind of complicated. Medicare is for people over 65 and other groups of people. they determine essentially what the market rate is for like an office visit or a skin cancer removal. And then all the other private insurance companies base their price off of that. Some give 20% more.

Some people give 20% less. And so everybody kind of bases at ballpark around what the government is paying for that particular code. A code is aligned with like an office procedure. 99203 is a new patient visit. And it's like a medium complexity new patient visit. And that code is worth a certain. amount of money to the government, and they pay you based on that. And so they cut that every year. But your cost goes up every year, your cost to your staff, the cost of lydicane to do

injections, the cost of your electricity goes up every year. And so we're actually at a reckoning point in our country where something is got to give. And I see it because I own my own practice in North Carolina, and I'm transitioning now to New York. But in that process of owning the practice, I'm looking at the P&L every month, and I'm seeing that. the prices of everything are going up, but the reimbursements are going down. And eventually you reach a point where there's nothing left, right? And so that's what's happening in healthcare in this country. And so in dermatology and plastic surgery, we also have this sort of cash option,

the aesthetic option. And this is something that we're trying to solve here with Cortina, is trying to give people access to low-cost care that maybe they don't even have insurance or Kenyon Ford insurance. And even physicians are sort of frustrated with the system right now, because like I said, you're kind of meeting this breaking point. Interesting. So unlike any industry, because of these reimbursements in this breaking point, your years of service

can go up, your credibility goes up, your client base goes up, all your price points for everything we know are going up. But then actually your gross revenue could go down based on all these back-end reimbursements and health insurance discussions at the government level. That is fascinating. I want to move into Cortina before I do, though, because I really, really appreciate that explanation. I think people back home would have no idea. We're probably going to do a full episode just on health insurance at some point. So we might have to phone a friend when we have

like a health insurance broker and get the doctor's opinions. But before we do that, give me an idea, dermatologist, cardiologist, neurosurgeon, like on average, what do you think they make? I just don't have a clue. Starting out 350, Durham, probably mid-career about 500. Most surgery, people are doing about $800,000 a year. Got it. Okay. But I love what you just did. Two to three million. That's what I thought. You thought, oh, yeah. See, that's why I love this show. You thought right off the bat, two to three million.

I'm thinking heart surgeon, brain surgeon. No, man. That's exactly right. They're maybe back in the 90s. Yeah. But no, I mean, we are at such an inflection point with that. Plastic surgery is the exact same way. Those are probably very similar numbers on the plastic surgeon.

It also depends if you're in academia versus private. And dermatology, like 90 plus percent of dermatologists are private practice, right, versus being at one of the academic institutions around plastic surgery that's much closer to 20 to 30 percent are in major hospitals because we need the facilities to back it up. So it depends on that as well. Do you think we have, with the price of everything going up, inflation moving it the way it is and some of these salaries being decreased year over a year and the pinching happening, do you think we're going to run into more of a global issue as far as doctors even pursuing pre? Med, Med, residency, when you look at the price of education, the price of everything else, the fact that in the 90s, $2 to $3 million was the standard, and today it's more of $250,000,000, $250,000,000, like, do we have more of a global issue here?

I think it's a major issue. And, you know, if you look at the forums on Reddit, you know, people talk about this, like, if you're pre-med, is it even worth it anymore to go into health care? Which is a shame because, like, there are so many people that are passionate about helping people and, like, they really would be amazing doctors. and they look at what's happening in tech, you know, starting salary at Facebook is like 550, right? And then you're thinking, okay, I can make 550 at 25 graduating college and, you know, getting a

good degree in tech, whereas like you're 32, you graduate from residency, and you're making 350 and it goes down every year. So people are doing that calculation and saying, like, I'm a smart person. I'm going to go into tech or I'm going to go into law. I'm going to go into a different field. And it's a shame because we need smart people who are doctors that can help people and care about them. And so all the pressures of the system are actually forcing people out of medicine. And there's always a delay, right? Like what's happening in medicine, like the young people

are still think it's going to be great. But it slowly changes, right? We're like, if you talk to most of my doctor friends, and I love what I do, like I'm so blessed to be able to do this. But if I talk to most of my doctor friends and you ask them, would you tell your kids to go into medicine? I would say 95% will tell their kids not to go into medicine based on the current situation that's happening. Wow. Interesting. You didn't cover student debt. Student debt. Right. I mean, so four years of college, that's expensive as well. But, you know, four years of medical school, that's not covered. That's completely, we're paying that. Then you have residency where we can't afford to pay the interest rate, because residents are making between $40,000 to $60,000

a year. So that's compounding interest for another three, four, five, six years, down how long your residency is. So now you have $300 plus thousand dollars in debt. when you start out, making 250 to 300? Working at a 10% clip now, right? It was different when it was working at a 2% to 3% clip. Right. Interesting. All right, we'll see how that changes the landscape.

We'll talk about it a little bit more in the recap. And I just think, Dr. Schroft, for everything that you're experiencing, what an interesting, more than ever now intersection based on what you just said about some of these kids in Facebook and we're going to TikTok, making about a half a million bucks. You now have this world where you own a practice. you are partnering with an institution that is growing by the days, but you also have this social media platform.

So you're seeing both sides of medicine and an institution level. And then you're seeing this whole TikTok, social media level and how you could be compensated. What's your take being and living in both worlds and which is moving at a faster pace when you look at growth? It's a good question. I mean, I think the sky's the limit in business, entrepreneurship. in social media, right? Like, there's no cap on what you're going to make. You know, there's no one's going to cut your reimbursements, right?

If you provide value to people, you'll get compensated for it. And there's so many different avenues you can grow from social media. You know, a lot of people think you're getting paid by TikTok or you're getting paid by YouTube or the sponsorships. But a lot of times it's other things that come off. But it's, you know, something, you know, partnerships that you make, businesses that you start, you know, all these other avenues. I call it like the, this bucket of income that no one really accounts.

for. So I would say that that, like, if you're talking about financially, like, that's always going to do better, like, if you're in business. And my friends who I've met through social media, a lot of times are not in dermatology. They're in other fields. So the networking that's happened from being on social media has been incredible. But, you know, I talked to my friends who are like in real estate and the amount of money that they're making versus what we're making is just, it's not, we're not even in the same realm. Like the conversations they're having are not even, we're not even in the same discussion as them. And so, yeah, I think, I think financially, but then you have to think about, like, if people always ask me,

like, you have social media, right? You have over 20 million followers. Obviously, you probably make a decent income from social media alone. If you told me, like, which one I had to pick today to do for the rest of my life, I would choose clinical dermatology. Like, I enjoy it more. And I love my patients. I make content because I love dermatology.

I don't make non-dermatology content because I love it. And it's just so happens that you can also monetize the content that I'm making. But if I had to choose one, it would be dermatology. And the patients that I've met in dermatology would inform everything that I do as far as content. That's what keeps me grounded. So if I had to choose, I would do dermatology, which is more lucrative social media by far. Interesting. Okay.

So social media, more lucrative. What you would choose is dermatology. Social media, you also mentioned the networking component. That social media platform of yours is, I believe, what led you to meet and work together on what you're now working together. And while I was doing some research on it, Cortina Health, you're using AI. telemedicine, digital media, and I even saw one snippet I read social media. I'm assuming that's your background to create something new in the healthcare space. So can you talk a little bit about

how your social media platform connected you to and specifically what you're doing that's different than what's out there today? Yeah, I'll just tell the origin story of our relationship. I think that makes the most sense. And probably with you and with the podcast and everything that you've done before the podcast with The Bachelor. People reach out to you, right? And they bring you opportunities, right? And you're like, okay, do I do this opportunity? Do I not work with this brand? So I turn down 99% of the sponsorships that come my way, right? A lot of people think, oh, you take every sponsorship or everyone, all these influencers are just taking every sponsorship. Sure. Our obligation is to the audience that gave us the platform. And so, like,

I'm very thoughtful about the partnerships that I make. And so during the time that Reed and his team had reached out to me, I was already like pretty fed up with telemedicine because a lot of brands had reached out to me for like telemedicine like, okay, we want to work with you, we want to collaborate with you. And they're all kind of had the same spiel. They were really just trying to basically commoditize dermatology, right? Like we're just going to get prescriptions in people's hands so that they can use them and not give them any guidance on how to use them. Dermatologist wouldn't be involved in the pictures. And so I was like, this is not like, I can't align with this because my audience would know this is inauthentic to me. And I wouldn't feel good about it. And so,

When they reached out to me, he told me a little bit about the platform. I was like, okay, only board certified dermatologists. I'm like, how can you afford to do that? It's so expensive to use a board certified dermatologist. It's like, well, we're going to use AI and machine learning to speed up the diagnosis and prescription process, but a dermatologist, a board certified dermatologist, will always be involved in that equation. And we're going to deliver low cost care.

So I'm like, okay, this is definitely interesting to me. And so I have to stand by like what I believe in. And so I think when you're an influencer, you kind of have to try to align with the brands that you think are doing the best for your audience. And so for me, like the 10 companies that reach out to me to do this telemedicine thing, because there are a lot of companies that are trying to do this. I felt like, you know, Reed and his team were really doing it the right way with Cortina and that I could stand behind what they were looking to build. And so, you know, they were early on, but I said, okay, instead of doing like a post, which is what they wanted me to do, just do like one post. Here's a fee. I was like, let me get involved.

let me invest. Let me really get involved and help you grow because then it can have an actually meaningful impact. So that's kind of how the story started. That's exactly correct. The only caveat to that is my marketing director came to me and she goes, have you heard of doctorly and derm? I'm like, yes, of course I've heard of Dr. Leon Durham. Dr. We're in the field of dermatology. I know a good amount. He has the number one dermatology influence in the world. Yeah, I think that we should like pay to having sponsors some content or something. And I'm like, do you think we can afford that? Like, like, I mean, we're just, we were just, we just launched to the general public.

We are in all 50 states. Okay. Now we have our own compounding apartments. We take, we do everything. It's an end-to-end solution. But I mean, you know, we were still at the time a startup. And I was like, I don't know, man. I mean, that guy's pretty famous.

I'm not sure we can, we can afford this and get on. And, you know, at first, but he was, you know, at first, but he was, not standoffish, but he was like, all right, what makes you different? And as we went through the whole process of leveraging strictly board certified dermatology, just with next generation technology, with the true personalization component from the medication. When he came back and said, yeah, I could do a sponsorship, I could do a post, but let's figure out a way to work together, right? You know, are you accepting the outside investments? I'm like, yeah, we are right now. She's like, I want to invest. I was like, really? And he's like, yeah, man, this is the, this is the way teledermatology should be done.

So you're doing it the right way. And so that was what, over a year ago now. And we're just rocking and rolling. That is pretty cool. I'm just curious as someone that's in business that looks in investments when you and it's someone that maybe wasn't as familiar with the social media world when they had come to you saying let's think about someone in social media and you said I don't know if we could afford that without doing the research stuff what did you think the amount was going to be oh I could so for a quote mic I even knew a quote micro that has like what 10 to 20 000 they could be charging 5 to 15k for a single post that's not even a post it's a story yeah that goes

is gone in 24 hours. And so, you know, there's an ROI on that. Like, are we really going to see that? There's a cost to acquire each customer, which is a patient at the same time. So for someone like Durham Doctor, it's going to be a heck of a lot more than that for a single post, right? So, like, how do we do this the appropriate way? So, you know, and we're just very fortunate that what we created was something that he wanted to be part of. If that's 5 to 10,000 followers, you imagine what Durham Doctor at 18 million plus is.

But I think it's always, it's this industry, whether you are an adjunct Harvard professor with an incredible resume, or you are like a 12-year-old who I talked to, my buddy's kid, I talked to yesterday, the thought process of like what social media is, what the influencing is, what the ROI is, what the cost is. It's such a wild industry because it's A to Z. And to see how you guys have marriage to do something super impactful is just so impressive. Well, I was going to say the other beautiful thing about Dr. Shaw's network is that, that there's over 20 million individuals that are all going there for dermatology. Right. Compared to other influencers out there that are beauty influencers and they're wonderful, a lot of those followers may not necessarily even care about dermatology care.

Everyone that goes to him because they can't get in the sea board certified dermatologist. So they're trying to take any education they can get from him. So we knew that we had to figure out a way to work together if at all possible. Okay.

And then so you create the partnership. did you end up investing? Yeah. Okay. So you invested some money. You're obviously a spokesperson. And what is your, like, how do you create a structure like this? What's your title?

What is your role within court? So I think it's officially the medical content advisor. That's a new title. But it entails a lot of different things, right? Because like I said, I wanted to be involved with something that I could be proud of that I could talk to my followers about and really stand by. So it goes from everything to, you know, creating content personally, you know, recommending it as the place because right now like what we have what what this is solving really is

this space where you have these people who who don't have any skin issues right and they're never going to pursue anything and then you have this group of people that they have like maybe some mild acne and over-the-counter treatments that you buy at CVS or Walgreens can solve that then you have this space of people that like they maybe don't need to see a dermatologist or they can't see a dermatologist in person because that's we have an access issue we have a depending on where you live you may not be able to see a dermatologist for six months. Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's too expensive. Yeah. $200 for a visit and wait times and all this, right? And then, so you have this gap of people that telemedicine, the ability to see a dermatologist online is going to solve that

issue for them. And so, you know, I, you know, I'm trying to think, okay, like how do I get my followers who they tried everything over the counter? They failed it. They can't see a dermatologist, but they can see someone online. How do I direct them to a place where they can get their Tretano, and they can get their, you know, prescription azalec acid. They can get their hair loss treatments like oral monocid and oral fanasteride. Like, where can we send these people? And so I'm like, Cortina is a solve for that for my patients. And so I'm like directing my followers to it, but I'm also advising on content strategy, even like formula development with like when monoxid, oral monocidal was become very, very popular for hair loss, you know, I told, I called up Dr. McClellan and I'm like,

you know, we need to get oral monoxide on the platform because we didn't have. We didn't have. The studies that are coming out are phenomenal. Like, the studies coming out for oral monoxide, low dose for hair loss are just tremendous. So, like, we need it to be able to offer people the best solution. And so he's like, we'll make it happen. So being able to connect and, like, actually deliver, like, real, real change for people, like real value to people is really how the partnership works. So all 50 states, someone's listening right now and they're like, okay, as a consumer,

I'm interested in how this works. What is the process? What is the cost? How do you actually meet with the doctor? What does it look like? Yeah. So we worked really hard to develop the infrastructure because I did know social media would be a component. And social media is viral. It's not in only New York or L.A. or Nashville, right? Kid in Boise, Idaho, right? And so what I did not want, and you see a lot of teledermatologists, they are not in all 50 states because you have to have doctors that have medical license in the state, the patient's in. That's how telemedic, that's how any medicine works at the end of the day. So while my software engineering team was going out and building our platform, I went out and I recruited dermatologists from around the country to make sure that we have at least five in every single state in America so that we have coverage and whatnot.

And, you know, certain states, we have over 20 in that given state. But to give the truly personalized component to it, we also wanted to have a compounding pharmacy that could mix different active ingredients together. So we also, at the end of the day, want to make it as easy as possible. Our mission is to democratize dermatology care. That means get access. We have that. We're in all 50 states.

Everyone can get on the internet, can have a camera, take photos and everything, but it also means affordability. So we're very price conscious when everything we do. So right now, you can go to getcortina.com, start a consultation. It'll cost you $50, so $49.99. That's basically what it would, and if you can finally get in and see a person dermatologist, you may get charged. That is a copay.

Anywhere between $30 to $50 for a specialist. For us, that's it. $50 cash all in for that. and you see your doctor. The doctor then reviews the case, takes care of you, answers any questions you may have prescribes either a truly personalized or if a generic is going to work better. We prescribe that. We can do everything at the end of the day. And all that happens in under 24 hours. So from when you first submit your case, within 24 hours, we're diagnosing you. You're having follow-on conversation with your doctor. You have your prescription that we're making for you from scratch.

we'll get that to you in the next five to seven days at max. You know, got to make it and got to ship it and everything. But then we are able to just to do that continuity of care because you can continue to get in to see the doctor virtually. I mean, it's almost sounds so good. I'm like, is it too good to be true? It's amazing. The question I would have to you is then,

how are you guys differentiating from all the other teledocs out there? You had already mentioned you have been approached by a lot of them. It sounds like speed affordability is definitely some of the top two reasons. also seems like credibility with board certified dermatologists. Are there anything else I'm missing that I should know, like as I possibly consider like jumping on a doctor call with Cortina? Yeah, I think those are kind of the main differentiators. To me, it's like the board certified dermatologist.

You'll see this language now if you pay attention to it. Yeah. If you see a teladermatology ad, you'll see, they'll use the phrase like a dermatology provider. Because board certified dermatologist is a protected term. And so oftentimes, and maybe this isn't true for every company, but oftentimes it's somebody who has absolutely no training in dermatology, but they can write prescriptions, right? And so to me, like, I'm worried, like, do I send my followers to somebody online who, and we had done this exercise where maybe it's not acne, it's actually something else.

And if you are trained in dermatology, classically, you spend four years studying dermatology alone, you can tell the difference between common skin conditions. And so my fear was that people would be misdiagnosed and mistreated. They'd have the right actives because if they diagnosed you with acne, they'd give you the right actives for it. But if you don't have acne, you have rosacea. Or maybe you have a genetic condition called tuberosal that can look similar, then a dermatologist is going to know the difference right away. But somebody who doesn't have any training in dermatology but can just write prescriptions, is it safe? You know? And so that was to me one of the main differentiators. And what's so interesting, especially about this podcast, is it's American

consumers, we've gotten so good at identifying kind of like fraudulent versus real, fake Rolex versus real Rolex, fake Louis Vuitton versus real Louis Vuitton, like these consumer material goods that mean, I don't know, to some people a lot, but maybe in the realm of things next to nothing, we've gotten so good at being able to do our research. We have not, I feel like, at least from a macro perspective, gotten great at saying, is it a certified board dermatologist? Did I do the due diligence on my doctor. And I think as consumers, when you're looking back at home, how much do you shop for the best brand? How much do you desire to have the next Gucci? Why aren't we taking that a same approach as we're shopping doctors that are doing literally work on the

outside and inside of our entire body? So I'm glad we talked about that. Last thing I talk about and I got to get your trading secrets is, you know, I want to make this one quick, but it's a big topic. Bro-tox. The boys are getting Botox right now. I remember like when I was in high school, My mom used to get pedicures. I'd be like, Mom, I want to go with you. I want to try this. I'd go get a pedicure with my mom and all the boys would chirp me.

It'd be like a hockey guy's soccer. Oh, you're getting a pedicure with your mom. I'm like, why don't you get your ass in there getting a pedicure? They all do it. They're all addicted to it. They're not leaving. I feel like Botox is like the new pedicures. Are you seeing a trend where guys are starting to get more Botox?

Yeah, so like just from my own patient population, I have a lot of men that come to see me. The interesting thing about men is that right now, there is sort of a stigmatization of these types of procedures. And so a lot of women will come in and they'll get their procedures done. And then they'll say, oh, yeah, like, you can post about me or like they'll tag me after they get something done. I just got this thing done.

But men specifically will say, like, don't post about this. I don't want anyone to know I got this done. And so there are a lot of guys that are. So if you're looking at your guy friends, if you're at home and you're listening to this and you're like, you know, my friend in real estate looks real good for his age. He's not aging. like what's going on? A lot of times you're seeing a dermatologist and getting these things days just not telling you because you're going to you're going to roast him for getting these

things done. And so I started getting Botox done when I was 31. I don't get it done often. You know, even though I have access to it all the time, but I get it done every nine months or so just so that I can soften my wrinkles and sort of age gracefully. But I see it's happening so often. And I think the next boom is this market of men that really are going to care about the way they look. I mean, men a lot of times care about the way they dress. they care about the way that they smell and sort of the next wave is going to be like skin and hair.

You hit the nail on the head there that I think also women are much more comfortable being around other women talking about their aesthetic, Botox, fillers, whatever it may be. Most guys aren't watching NFL Sunday being like, oh yeah, I just saw my derm on Friday, it's got the Botox

in there. That's why I'm not as excited about the play that was just awesome. You know, like they're not really talking about it. But, you know, once again, it is still an access thing. right because that's one thing that we can't do virtually and that's why i've you know we're all sharing secrets i've i've actually yet to get botox because my dermatologist is completely virtual interesting and my specialty is in children so i don't have the same access yet cortina is expanding into brick and mortar clinics now as well so i think i'll have more access and i am certainly not

opposed to it it just didn't have the access to it before recently well if you tell me that we can get Botox 24 hours after a quick teladocall with a brick and mortar. This is going to go nuts. People are going to be all on board. So it's pretty good. Stay tuned, guys, for the recap. I'll tell you a little bit about my Botox journey. I might have to come see Dr. Shaw one of these days and let him talk to you about the work he's doing. We'll talk about that. We'll see how that goes. But we've got to end with a trading secret. It's a trading secret either from a, you know, a consumer can learn from you about the industry. It could be about the business you've built. It could be about a money tip. Any trading secret. You can't read in a textbook or learn on YouTube tutorials. You can only learn from

YouTube, so we need two trading secrets. You can see this on YouTube. You see it from a lot of different people, but I think it's important to hear it over and over again, and that's self-care. You know, Dr. Shaw and I, we both work a lot. We'll put in a lot of hours. There's no, if Ansora was about it, especially being an entrepreneur and whatnot. But sleep is very important. Don't skimp on that. Don't think I'll catch up on it the next day. I get through this week. always focus on being the best of yourself. And sleep is one of the most important attributes to that. That's a good piece of advice.

One thing, I need to catch up on a sleep. And I also, I forgot, I'm going to need more Botox after this Buffalo Bill season. But Dr. Shas, sleep and self-care. What can you leave us with? Life has pulled me so many different directions from medicine to social media to being here on this couch. I think the main thing that kind of is to try to stay grounded and have ground. gratitude for where you are. A lot of times people don't give themselves grace. A lot of times you've achieved the goal that you had when you were 18. And you're running this cycle of life where

it's always the next thing. And a lot of us, you know, we're very goal oriented. But I think taking time, you know, this is not like a trading secret to succeed in life, but, you know, going through the motions of life, like having a moment of gratitude to like pat yourself on the back and say, you know, I'm where I was when I was 18. I should be proud of that. And then keep going. to the next thing. But I think taking a moment, and, you know, probably for you too, you know, just taking a moment and saying, hey, you know, I've achieved X, Y, Z thing. And of course, things are going to come next, but, you know, I'm very grateful that I have what I have. And so that's where I'm at right now. That landed. I think that's something, no matter like

what position, everyone even in this room, just like taking a beat to be like, look where we are. You know, we get so focused on tomorrow. It's so focused on checking the box. Let's find the next one. Just taking a moment to take it all in. I think it helps you keep centered. So this was unbelievable. I want to first start with this. Any listeners that want to go sign up for Cortina, or they want to get an appointment? Where's the first place they can go? Simple. Just go to get Cortina, G-E-T-O-R-T-I-N-A.com. You'll see our medical content advisor right there on that front page. You can read through everything that we do, or you can click start a consultation right there, and you'll be seeing a board sort of by a differentologist immediately.

All right. And if they want to find a little bit more of you, where can they find everything you have going on? No, man, I'm not going to lie to you guys. I'm not going to wear as cool as you guys on a follower's standpoint. So I don't really point everyone to get Cortina. But I am technically on social media at Dr. Reed McClellan on Instagram as well as LinkedIn. There you go. Guys, go check out Dr. McClellan.

And you're Mr. Shaw? So dare me say Mr. Dr. No, no, no, no. Mr. I'm not a doctor in this scenario. Though I am wearing scrubs, but that's only because I came from the office here in New York right from there. So it's not like I dressed up in costume last. I actually came from. Hudson Yards. You played the brand perfect. That's how we roll.

So you can, Instagram, YouTube, Doctorly, TikTok, Derm Doctor. You can also come see me in the office. I'll be joining here, you know, hot off the press. You're actually the first person we're telling this. Let's hear it. I'm joining Hudson Dermatology in New York. And we started like an aesthetic skin lab here called Esthetic of Skin Lab. So people can come see us in Hudson Yards. You can also see me on the Get Cortino website with my image right there. as the medical content advisor. Hudson Yards is going to be huge. Yeah. You guys all need to check that out.

The Hudson Yards location. It's coming soon. And then check out Derm Doctor on TikTok. The content is just fire, intriguing, super stimulating. You'll enjoy every single bit of it. And guys, thank you so much for being here on Trading Secrets. Thanks for having us. Ding, ding, ding.

We are ringing in the bell to the Dr. Shaw episode. I'll tell you what, David. It has been hot lately. we had Savannah Crissly on, we had Hannah Godwin on, we had Leva on, and now we have Dr. Shaw on talking all things, skin, I would say even health care. We got into Dr. Salary talk, and we also had Dr. Reed on. Now, Dr. Reed, that guy, oh, my God. Now, he's not an influencer, right? We know Dr. Shaw is a top five influencer for skin care in the entire United States, with Haley Bieber being number one. But Dr. Reed is a genius. Harvard grad, a doctor by trade, unbelievable businessman, takes money from their family

office and invests in small boutiques to make them better. What these two do together is really cool. I really enjoyed this episode. It's a cool thing about trading secrets, exploring all areas and not leaving one stone unturned, but I always love to get the curious Canadians take. What'd you think, brother? What are you thinking? first off got to correct you there hey lee beber not hannah beber you're coming off the hannah godwin

i know it was an amazing episode for us i know the clips are blown up on social but at haley beber not hannah beber got a heat check you out there for my beber beber's out there now's like what what am i i i am the worst person in america with names but dude i interviewed someone yesterday actually i don't even want to say it but her name was very obvious and I like when I say butchered it I mean butchered it it's unbelievable I have two clients for the rewired agency their name just starts with a J and I mix them up

in a meeting like I if someone out there can come on and do a whole episode on how to figure the fuck names out I would really appreciate it okay done it people you gotta see it too it's not like hard names it's like the guest name could be Michael he's like all right I hear Mikkel it's like it's Michael or it's someone's name like, Nancy, and I'll just mix it up in my head with someone else.

So I'll be like, yeah, we're here with Kristen today. And I'll be like, no, that was, that was 45 minutes ago. That was your last podcast. It's not even the right human in the same space, you dumb fuck. Okay, Jason, I'm done. Okay, I love it. A little peanut Tarnick moment here. Just crush them.

Yeah, we love that here. We love that. Dr. Shaw, look, I mean, I don't even know if you mentioned. The guy's got over a million followers on Instagram. You said he's top three most influential skin care doctors out there right now, which is incredible. And look, when you're talking skincare, when you're talking derm, I'm a fish out of water. I am that 37-year-old male who's been using water as my face wash solution for my whole life. I actually just recently last year used my first like face wash product and then with the little spray bottle after.

I've been doing that. And it was thanks to you because it got sent by by a company trying to be. and get us to do a deal with them. And I use that. And I actually really, really like it. So I was the, you know, for some of our listeners who maybe aren't as in tune with some of the guests we have on, I was that listener for this episode. And boy, oh, boy, was I blown away at the high level, low level, the advice, the industry.

I thought it was really, really interesting episode because skincare is everywhere we look right now. Everywhere. I mean, like, it's literally, it's everywhere. It's a multi, multi, multi billion dollar industry that is growing by the second. And David, like, talk to me. We got to get your skin care routine going, bro. Like, we got to get this going. Now, I'll tell you this.

I don't know shit about skincare, but I always remembered my mom every day when I was a kid would wash her face and then put stuff on. So as a kid, I just, like, wanted to emulate my mom. So I would just wash my face. And the only thing I put on was like eye stuff, like eye cream, all through my 20s. Just wash my face, just a little eye cream. Then my ex, Caitlin, is a skin queen, skincare queen. And so from her, I learned like all these steps. And now probably we're going on six, seven years, David.

I have a full step-by-step routine, like every morning, every night. It's crazy. I saw you put up the poll on Instagram. If people want you to get into it, I think that you should. I think that you should. They talked about the stigma, how guys are starting to really get into Botox, but they are like, do not post me. I will not tag you, pretend that I never walked through this establishment.

but I got to tell you, every time I do get some kind of skin care thing done now, I'm like, ooh, I kind of like that. Ooh, I like this face wash. Ooh, I like the Sprite. Ooh, I like the eye roller under my eyes. Ooh, I like the masks. I like these things. So maybe it's a new leaf. Now, I got a question for you from your experience.

Let's say, since I have no experience in the skincare game, I'm getting the wrinkles. I'm just there, right? Do you think that it would be more beneficial, let's say, if I wanted to get Botox to maybe start a skinning a routine and then get Botox? and then get Botox so it's practiced. Or do you think Botox would be the thing where it's like, bang, okay, your skin's looking great, your wrinkles are going great. Now you have to do a skincare routine. And that would be the catapults of me really getting into a skincare routine.

Okay. So, David, no, they're not connected at all. Like you should start your skincare routine yesterday, okay? That should be started yesterday. A wash, a basic, I would say a basic exfoliate, a basic moisturizer, get a little eye cream, and then let's get like hyluronic acid. serum, like a hyloronic skin serum, okay? Those are the, like, the basics I would do.

Now, I'm not a skincare gene. I'm just telling you what I do. I don't know shit. There's probably someone listening like, Jason, you're wrong. I'm just telling you what I do. Now, now I'll also mix in some other stuff like retinoles and different serums and other shit. But the thing is, I think, David, is with Botox. Here's the deal. I just got it done three weeks ago. You go in, and the big thing they look at, and again, for all the professionals out there, if I'm wrong here. I'm just telling you my experience.

I'm not a doctor by any means. But for me, they look at my 11s. So the 11s are the wrinkles in between your eyes. They look at your forehead wrinkles, right? Like you see, like just what your facial express. And you see those up there. So they get you here at the 11s in between the eyebrows, the forehead wrinkles. And then the big one is the crow's feet.

So when you smile and you have these lines by your eyes. Those ones? Those are called, oh, yeah, I see those. Those are called crows feet. But then what happens is you get it done, right? and it doesn't I hate needles I fucking hate needles you know that I probably got 20 fucking needles in my face it didn't bother me at all I was like because it's like quick little it's quick and then what happens is it eliminates those wrinkles now here's the last

thing I'll say and then I'm going to pause and I know you got questions um the big thing about Botox is it's yes it will fix these lines for like my understanding is up to six to eight weeks like very good i i really only go two times a year and here's why i go i don't go to have the perfect face every single day of the year i know people that go every four six weeks it's crazy in my opinion i go for preventative so right now with my with my head like this and my 11s like this because they're like they have botox i'm not squeezing my face and i'm not doing the wrinkles is a result of that my face is actually learning to not clench up to not wrinkle right so it's very preventative it prevents you from like doing the motions that continue to create wrinkles and so

a lot of it is preventative a pause there talk to me well they mentioned the cost of botox 10 to 20 per unit with an average of 15 how many units are you getting when you go so what's the average cost for you to go when you go so i think their their their basis is right on so i'll usually get anywhere from 10 to 20 units at that price point so that's they're they're bang on that's exactly right okay okay so not not overly expensive i mean if you're getting it done twice a year now when it comes to skin care in with your experience with with your ex um is male and female skin care can you use the same products or is it different across the board my understanding is you can use the same products but now some companies are getting really cheeky they're taking the same products and they're

just putting a masculine touch on the products with names and branding so that it's like cool for men so that's like a smart you know you're also seeing what's really interesting in the industry um especially i see it with my my peers like you know influencers or people that are in entertainment is like companies are now starting to make like take a masculine spin on like even makeup and they're making it like like you know how like them they like cover up they'll just be like quick spot touch for men and it's like in a black package with red label it's like a tied to go pen but for men yeah so they like the same shit that way and then they're like you know I've used a lot of it and you're like oh what what oh I look good and you're like okay I'm going to do this

again so I think you're going to see that shift quite frankly that industry is definitely going to move in that direction. Yeah, I love the example that he used about, like, how guys aren't sitting around on football Sunday talking about their, their meti spa appointment that they had to get their Botox. But it's going to change in little ways like that. It always begins back at marketing, at packaging, at all those things. Now, I got a question for you, one of the probably the most crazy part of the episode for

me as a listener was hearing how salaries have changed in the, you know, in the medical industry from the 90s to where we are now in 2024. If you had a little Jason and you have a business mind as his father, are you encouraging him if he's capable to go and be a plastic surgeon, to be a cardiologist, to be a dermatologist, or are you trying to get him to make that money quicker because he has the ability to do so in maybe an industry that doesn't require the schooling, the student debt in a tech industry, etc.

Honestly, at this point, I think the old traditional strategy for parenting for safety was tell your kids to go be a professional, tell them to be a doctor, tell them to be a surgeon, tell them to be an accountant, tell them to be, you know, something that is like the professional medical space because you know it creates security. The more I hear about this industry and some of the regulations that touch and squeeze it, the more I say to myself, okay, wait a second, everyone hit pause, encourage your kids to be the best of what they want to be. And I do think that in this world, being a jack of all trades actually works against you.

think you need to be a master of one. So I don't know, man. I'm not going to push my kid into any direction. Like if I had a kid right now, just because look at how the things are changing. To me, one of the biggest takeaways from this episode was that in every other space, as you get more experience and your value increases because you take on more responsibilities and you know more, you're paid more. But to think that in healthcare, in some spaces, you're actually getting paid less over time, that was mind-blowing to me. Crazy. And also the fact, fact that, you know, you came out with a question about how there's a need for more dermatologists and you probably ask that as a question of like, you know, what's going to happen because the demands

of it's going up and they said, oh, no, the demand to be dermatologists is there and how the U.S. government caps, the allocated training spots that they fund is what inhibits them from being more, which I thought was really interesting. I also just hearing those guys talk, they know that they feel very lucky in the medical field with their quality and life balance. And I still think that being in the Derm industry, if you can get it, seems like a pretty amazing industry to be and to work in. Yeah, I think to work at it. And then I think for those that are creating their own boutiques, you know, you see people like Cortina Health. You see people like Dr. Reed. They are doing what

they can to acquire those and put them into a portfolio. So I think it's a huge opportunity. If you start one, your likelihood of getting acquired is pretty significant. And the ability to make money is really cool. I also think, David, I want to touch quickly on the whole like Brotox thing. It is like, it's been instilled on us since day one to like not talk about this stuff. It's not cool. Yes. I mean like my dad just had an eyelid surgery and it was for functionality. It was because his like, you know, as age went on his eyelid, his one eyelid was getting so big. It was like starting to impact his sight. And I was like, dad, you're going to look good, man. And he's like, well, I just, you know, I did it for functional. Like almost like natural. Well, it's for functionality. I'm like,

but dad, let's take a pause. How cool is it that, yes, it's for functionality, but you're going to look better. He's like, yeah, that is cool. You're right. So I think we're just so, like, we have our guard up. Like, oh, my God, we can't do things if it makes us look good. And I think that's just so stupid.

Like, when you look good, you feel good. Like, do what's best for you. 100%. And I'll never forget on the podcast where you told the story about how when your mom would go get a manicure or pedicure, like, I want to see what that's like. And you did it. And all of us, Jenny, used to chirp you. And then here you are.

And then the first one I ever got, a pedicure that I ever got was when we went to Nemecullen. And I got my first ever. I still haven't got a manicure, but I got a pedicure at Nemecall. And I remember coming back to the room. I'd be like, that was a top five experience in my entire life. Exactly. Toxic masculinity is definitely a real thing. And we need to get the fuck over it.

Yeah. A couple of other things, David. What else do you think? We talked a lot about the podcast, even some things I was like, make sure you follow up with, but I forgot what those were. Yes. Well, listen, this is the. last question I got for you and not in a million years that I think that we get on the ones

and twos hop on the mics and I would ask you about your sperm count but here we go you talked about finestra I think I'm saying that right which is the the hair product that you've been using you talked about some side effects and you made sure that you asked about sperm count to see if that was something that they were aware of or that they had experiences and hearing from other people you mentioned in the episode jade and me for me to bring it up so here we are talk to me about about why and the process of getting your sperm count checks because we are in the age of all of our friends trying to have kids. Some are able to have them easy. Some are not. And a lot of our friends, as we know, have gotten their sperm count checks. So talk to me about that. Yeah,

I think it's a great question. So a couple of misconceptions out there. I want to clear up. When it comes to the idea of having kids, I have always wanted to have kids all. always. A few years ago, I would say, ideally, in a perfect case scenario, I would be able to be married and then have kids. However, I said, life is not perfect. And if I'm even lucky enough with my significant other, to have kids, that's a fortune in itself. I've said that before. I've heard you say that before. A couple years passed from that, as I learned more about, especially through friends going through it and fertility and infertility and I started to get a little older. My entire take on that changed, I was like, if you're with someone that you love and you have

a foundation and you have a kid who cares if you're married, you're fortunate enough to have a kid and that is like the biggest blessing in the world. So my take changed a little bit. And I also think that's a lesson in life. Holding people to absolutes is a really, really unhealthy thing to do because is if you hold someone to an absolute, like, oh, you said it this four years ago. What you're saying to that person is they don't have the ability to grow and change. So that's more of a general statement. Going back to the comment is having kids to me is extremely important in something I hope one day I'll be able to be a father. That would be a dream to me.

So with this medicine, it could have an impact on your sperm count. And for that and a myriad of other reasons, which I'll table, I got my sperm chef. after taking it for like a year and I was like so nervous like oh my god one of the results going to be also that process dude is oh my god like you're going in and the like the people work in the front desk were like my age and I was like paranoid I'm like they probably nine out of 10 people would not know me but I was just like in my head I'm like what if they do know me from the bachelor and here I am to go like pump off and their little room and like this is weird and I don't know what to do I get in there it's like it's quick and it's quick

as I can. I throw a porthub on it. I'm just like, I got to go. I got to go. I go. I'm so nervous. It was like the worst ejaculation experience I've ever had in my life. I like took the little cup. I put it out and I like sprint out the door. Like give me the fuck out. Don't they? I heard they offer you like here's some magazines. Here's like they have like, do they have like a DVD player in there? Like they what do they heard that? I've heard that. They don't. It's like very fucking sterile in there. And it's like, so they didn't offer you magazines or anything?

No, the only thing they do. Because the one buddy I talked to said to he was like, yeah, they offered me a bunch of magazines. Like, yeah, you think I want to touch magazines

that have been there for 10 years? The other guys, it's all over them. Yeah. Yeah. Also, you're in that room and you're just like, oh,

it's like being in a motel and you're just like, oh my God, what's happened? Is it like a doctor's office? Is it like a doctor's office with like the crusty paper that you sit on on like the chair and stuff?

Is it like the, dude, And it's so sterile in there. Like it's so sterile. And then they give you this like little baggy. It's like when you're a kid and you got like little zip block bags for your lunch. And there's like a little baggie with like a note. And then in there there's like a little thing of loob.

And it's like, oh God, this is fucking, I hate it. I hate it. They should put a shower in there so you can shower and cleanse yourself. Seriously. I know. I will say like of any doctor experience, I guess that's the best one. Like I'd rather go do that. that then get a needle so hey yeah there's that now now how how are the results are you good

the results were great man i've i was so excited the swimmers galore i think the number was like 700 million or something like that so i think i think the targets like i don't know if you know the space it's been a while it was like a year year ago or so and um yeah it's probably a year ago to the day and i think the targets like 100 to 200 million and i think guys were like 750 million so we'll take it hey just you just need one that's it just need one yeah need one so that's uh that's a hilarious story thank you for sharing yeah my my pleasure that's that's that's all yeah they say 15 million to 200 million as i just googled it they say is the sperm per milliliter normal yeah mine was like 750 so we're we got some there's some action there yeah oh i can't follow that up with

anything else. So there you go. That's a full. If you're still with us, if you're still with us, thank you. I actually just wipe my eyes. I was crying laughing. I don't know. I don't know what we're doing with this podcast these days, but here we are. We hope you are loving it. Give us five stars. David's here for it. It's going to be exciting stuff ahead. So when I look ahead, I get excited about the next guest that we have coming up. And that next guest is going to be Peter Weber and a very special person from traders. So there is going to be a full Traders episode. That is coming. I'll also tell you this. Book tour. In a few hours,

we completely sold out, Capital One. We were going to Seattle. We were going to Denver, Austin, Chicago, Del Rey, D.C., Philly, and Boston. The link in my bio on my Instagram page, Jason underscore Tartik, has a place you can reserve tickets. We sold out in the first few hours. however we're adding more spots so by the time this comes out go check and see if there are more spots if it's completely full we're going to work on doing a live podcast tour places we are thinking about top of mind Nashville Toronto Charlotte a lot of love is blind folks in Charlotte and New York City so more to come on that and in the book actually we talked about Botox today there is a section where I talk about Botox your finances I try to make things that are relevant in our world today

connect to money. And so with Botox your finances, the whole concept is like Botox is a means to help and also to prevent. And so there are a lot of things in finance we have to do on the defense. And so that's a little bit strategy. So go grab a copy of talk money to me. David, you got anything else? See everybody on the podcast tour once the dates get announced. All right. We'll see you guys there. Thank you for tuning into another episode of Trading Secrets, one you couldn't afford to miss. Paying on me, making that money and money, living that dream. Making that money, money, money, pain on me.

Making that money, money, living that dream.