Trash Taste Podcast - Anime That Defined a Generation | Trash Taste #317

Episode Date: July 17, 2026

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This episode is brought to you by FIFA World Cup, launch edition, on Netflix. It's a fast, fluid game where your phone is the controller and your TV is the stadium. You just launch it on your TV, scan the QR code with your phone, and boom, you're shooting and passing in seconds. Plus, it's included in your Netflix membership

with zero extra costs. Go to the games tab and play FIFA World Cup launch edition now, only on Netflix. Hey, welcome back. to another episode of the Trash Taste Podcast. I'm your host for today, Joey, joined as always by my boys, Connor and Gantt. And everyone, go to your grandma's liquor cabinet and grab that bottle of wine and give it a good sniff, because today we're going to be asking the question, did it age well?

Do you know how to, do you know what wine is for? Yeah. You don't sniff the bottles. Yeah, why not? That's what wine somaliers do, right? They, you know, they get their fucking nose in there and sniff it. wine sommler friend, I know. Okay. But yeah, we're going to be asking the age-old question of did it age well? Essentially, we're going to be going through Trashboskut, as always, our boy. And inside of here, we have a bunch of anime, movies, games, any kind of entertainment media from the past. And we're going to be asking the question, did it age well? If it came out today with little to know prior knowledge of it, then would it be considered just as good or masterful

as we deemed it to be back in the day. Yeah, I mean, I think we, the chosen movies that we picked aren't exactly, you know, aren't all considered as classics. You know, they aren't always considered as the, you know, critically acclaimed classics that have aged well. Some are, some are, we've picked a wide range of stuff from different time ranges, some more recent than others, but the most important thing is that everything in here is a cultural,

hits for that time. What is considered, like, eligible for it to be in here? Like, how far back are we going? It's, uh, bro, it's 2026. One year ago is like the new decade ago, you know what I mean? You're all. That's so depressing, bro. God damn. So no, leveling came out last year. Fuck me. That's, that's, that was, uh, yeah, wait a way we remaking that shit. All right. They might. Don't give them ideas, gone. So some of these franchises that we picked are still having like new stuff coming out in this modern day, because it's 2026 right now. We can't find new culture. Yeah.

But we are coming in with the assumption that if we put out of a franchise, that is still getting remade today. What if this franchise never existed, but still came out today? Right. Okay. All right. The first one is, did it age well? Ocarina of Time. Wow.

Wow. Joey, wow. Very relevant. Very relevant. If you haven't been on the internet for the past month or so, then, yeah, Occurion of Time remake has just been confirmed by Nintendo coming out this year, which is kind of crazy. Is it a Final Fantasy 7 remake or is it a like Halo Kombat Evolved remake? Like, what do you mean? Is it like a one-to-one or is it? We've literally gotten five seconds of footage of it, so I have no idea. I thought you'd know, Jerry. Nope. I think your dad was Shigarmi Amoto.

Yeah, let me ring on my dad. For a second, dude. Hello, shezy? Sure. Yeah, we only know, as of right now, there's only been like, yeah, maybe... We should Google this, where we say anything. What?

There might be information out. I don't think that there is. I don't think there. Really? Yeah. No, because the Nintendo, the Nintendo direct only came out last week. Maybe they lied.

What do you mean? What do you mean? Maybe there's more info. I don't know, you know? I mean, it was, it was a remake that was rumored for the longest time, I think it got leaked maybe like a week before. But yeah, it's confirmed that Ocrowan of time is getting its second remake,

because this is actually a second remake. Second remake. Because they remade it once on the 3DS, like an HD remake. Oh, bro, nobody cares about 3DS. What do you mean? I love 3DS. 3DS is pretty cool, go on.

3Ds is pretty cool. The DS was the goat, man. 3DS, I'm just like, you just added a 3 on top and just called it a day. Yeah, just like, what are you adding here? 3D, nobody gives a shit. shit about 3D. Back in the day they did. Do you remember when Avatar came out? Yeah. Did it remember when Avatar came out and everyone's like, yo, 3D Cinemize the future.

Nobody fucking gives a shit about this. We can we can we can you know what we'll we'll use that as a tangent after the Ocary and of time discussion. Have you guys seen the reveal trail by the life? I have I have not. Yeah it's yeah we've literally gotten five seconds of actual quote unquote gameplay which is kind of crazy. We didn't get any gameplay right. Well, we got a cut, we got the opening cut scene. Yeah, that was the opening cut scene. This is the opening cut scene. Well, yeah.

Have you played the original O'Rourine of time? Oh, bro, I was eight, man. I don't remember shit, you know. It's literally just like Link in the bed. I never completed it either. Link in the bed. And he wakes up. It's Link in the bed.

Can we just go to the shot of Link and see how he looks? Yeah, yeah. This trailer's a whole lot of nothing. Yeah. Okay, so that's Link in the bed. I don't like how he looks. Really? Yeah.

I kind of like how he looks. I like how they changed up the art style from like Breath of the Wall. Nah, I love the Breath of the Wild art style. You know what this looks like? Actually, I mean, I like that they change it up. I mean, I think it's a good precedent to set that not every 3D Zelda will look the same.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, not every 3D Zelda does look the same. So, I mean, the last two, they've looked identical. I mean, I don't want them to stick to it. That's not true. I always because I actually don't care that much about that style. See, this style is just like, something about the modern 3D render

where, have you seen that Mario clip where someone... Unreal Engine. Yeah, someone's like Unreal Engine Mario where someone does like the AAA Mario game. Yeah. I like it when games are a little bit more stylistic. Well, they did an Unreal Engine version of Ocrow and of Time as well, like maybe five, 10 years ago or however longer was when Unreal Engine 4 came out.

So people are expecting this new one to be like that. But I mean, look, I think, I think, I don't think this is a hot take to say that the N64 graphics, which is what the original Ocarina of Time is from, has not aged all that well. Yeah, I mean... Do you think the N64 graphics of age well? No, but what we're looking at when we talk about N64 games is that you're looking at what like Atari was to graphics at the time as well.

Right. Mm-hmm. For 3D. Because, you know, SNES, they had like near the end of it, like 1996. they'd kind of like perfected, like sprites. Yeah. Like sprites look fucking amazing. Like you look at a metal slug, Final Fantasy 6,

Grand Trigger. It looks awesome. Yeah. Like those games look so good. And then now they have to learn 3D, which like none of the, like at the time, like a lot of these teams had zero experience in.

And so you get these kind of games that, although some of them are really good, like 64 is aged pretty well. And, you know, you can, you can actually play it. on it's okay. It doesn't look great. 64 is like a couple of triangles.

And that's one of the better ones because it is very simple visually. But there are some games that look really rough because they've gone for this like really strong visual style. It's also why, although I know this wasn't on 64, being the PS1, like Final Fantasy 7.

Yeah. Looks like shit. Does it look like shit? Oh yeah, it looks bad. Yeah, dude. You don't remember the fucking cloud. egg beater hands. I think people forget how bad the game looks

until you play it and you're like, wow, this crazy is sandwiched between six and eight. And like if you look at those two games, they both look pretty decent. Yeah. Like if we bring up Final Fantasy six first, obviously just like, I don't know. I don't know.

Okay. His, like it looks like the spider work looks good. And then put Final Fantasy eight, you know. Yeah, the jump from six to eight is insane. Well, these are cinematics. That's the cinematics. I know, do you feel like it's only a matter of time

before these kind of like old school PS1 era 3D render sprites 3D renders, sobly, kind of like come into... Oh, they're already popular. They're popular again now because people are making games with this kind of sprite work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like a stylistic choice now. The PS1 vibe is like kind of back in the indie scene.

Yeah, and I, because I feel like, you know, when we talk about games aging well, it's games with a strong, very, very strong visual style. It doesn't matter which era came out in because things can always come back into fashion, like with sprites, like with this PS1 era. If the visual language is strong enough, then, you know, that might even be more visually distinct than a lot of modern games coming out right now. You know what I mean? I agree. I think, though, a lot of the times it's being used now is either in kind of nostalgia bait-looking titles that are like trying to play on that nostalgia factor or a horror games that are using kind of the low-poly aesthetic.

in kind of an advantage of like this uncanny valley. Because, yeah, like the analog horror stuff. Yeah, because you can make people's, you know, because people have these triangle faces, when you draw the textures on them, it's really easy to make it look creepy. I think like, what's the, what's the, there was one game that I know it was somewhat controversial,

but I think it's like bad parenting or something it was called. Is the only one I could think of at the top of my head with this visual style, maybe type it in, bad parenting? There's also that like VHS, like chainsaw, man. Not chainsaw, man, but like, guy, man holding chainsaw. Like this kind of thing. Yeah.

This game's, you know, I mean, this game is a bit controversial, but the idea of like, I mean, it's definitely creepy, though. Yeah. Low poly kind of, you know,

models, but even then this is still more textures than the fucking intensity forehead. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, like, all these basics and shit like that, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a stylistic choice, obviously, but, uh, you know, I think, uh, I think this kind of visual style

may have a space, you know, because people are, absolutely it does, but that's not what, they were not trying to make that style back then. they were trying to make the graphics look amazing and new. Yeah.

And so it ends up a lot of the games looking kind of awkward, I think. Yeah. Because I, like, can you search up Ocreen of Time? What is it? How good or bad does that look? I think it looks fine for an N64 game. It's definitely... Because for me, visually, I think, visually the Zelda that I think has aged the best is

Winwaker, because that, to me, is like timeless visual. Yeah, cell shading ages tremendously. This one, yeah. Another thing that they were really, really bad at from my time, just been playing some of these older games, is that there was like, pretty much every N64 game I've played does this where, like, the worlds are so empty.

And, like, they're so, like, sad-looking. And, like, Hyrule Fields and shit, right? And, like, you look at that. And anytime you go to a cave, it's like, okay. But I think the first cave you go to in Zelda is pretty visually impressive as well as the Water Temple as well. were looking pretty good, even though it was kind of held.

The inside of the decou tree, right, was, I remember, was quite nice in terms of the level design and, you know, just the atmosphere that it gives you. Like, this, these visuals and the gameplay and the story of O'Krena, I would say the part that aged the best was, I think it did a really good job of, like, selling the atmosphere, which was, you know, already worked really well on top of the great story that O'Koreena had. But I think, especially today, like, because I think about it, right,

Like maybe the argument can be made that it did age well because these kinds of graphics are back in, I guess. But I'm thinking about the hypothetical of if this style never came back in and was just a period of the past, then would people look at this and still be like, oh, this game looks great? I mean, if the gameplay is good enough, you know, it'll always at least pop off in the indie scene, you know.

That is true. Is Zelda, Ocarina of Time, is it your favorite Zelda? Joey? Not my favorite. I personally prefer Majora's Mask if we're talking about this era of Zelda

just because I much prefer the kind of darker tone that Majora went for. Not to say the Okrain is a bad game. It's a great fucking game

but I don't think it's the best Zelda game of me. I have not completed Aquarius time. I still think it's a game that's definitely

worthwhile to go back to him. There's a reason why it's a classic. I mean, I was stuck on the Water Temple is not.

I never. I mean, that Water Temple sucks. I never picked backup. I remember watching my brother play it and my older brother and I remember thinking like, damn, that was so fucking cool when it was 3D because back then there's no 3D. Yeah. Yeah. But unfortunately, when you think back to this kind of stuff, you're like,

a lot of 3D stuff didn't age well. I remember the combat being kind of jank. Yeah, there wasn't a jump button, right? No, there was a jump button, but I remember like the camera was absolutely your fucking enemy. Like it always is. No, there's no, it was, it was an auto jump. Yes, it was the auto jump. He was an auto jump feature. And I remember when you try and fucking hit those fucking things on the ceiling in the first temple.

Oh, the Stalphos? Yeah, and then you would always try and jump and you'd miss it and you have to re-fucking position to the camera. And it's like, dude. Yeah, see, the one thing that didn't age well, I think, with just... Oh, camera.

Most if not all Nintendo 64 games was the camera system. Cameras were horrific. Like, as much as I think Mario 64 is like a masterpiece of a game, the camera is incredibly frustrating if you're not used to it. And I think this is an arc run of time

and Majora's master be very much suffers from that. But that's also just because, you know, this was such a new thing. And even the game debs were just like, all right, how the fuck do we work a camera? But the thing is, right, when you play, like, a link to the past and you play a link

to the past now, it doesn't feel like an outdated game. No. It's a very, like, those sprite games for some reason, I don't know what the secret sources. They do not feel like they've aged. That's why Link to the past my favorite Zolian. I mean, I think most people agree, it's like the best.

I think most people agree it's like the best one in terms of like the classic Zelda formula. The core Zelda games, yeah. And I think, unfortunately, when you boot up O'Koreno time, you feel like you're playing an old game. So I think like if it did come out today, I don't think it would be popular.

Yeah, it's so weird how much, you know, the 3D kind of like gameplay mechanics and stuff have been so optimized, but you go to 2D sprites and I guess it's like due to the limitations, right? There's only so much can do with it. And so the gameplay from all the way back to the SNS era is still aged wonderfully. Yeah. I mean, look at the indie scene and how like, you know, so many fucking indie

games now are still going back to this like kind of 2D or even like HT2D style. People just still love it. They find charm in it. All right. So I guess this is the perfect time to ask the question since we're like asking the question did age well. What does, Jerry, what do you think the remake needs to do in order for it to age well? I think the story of O'Qaeda of Time is particularly strong? I, yeah, I would say Ocarine of Time definitely has a strong story. Can you tell me the story of the game? I actually don't know.

And if you don't remember, that's fine. I'm not gonna lie, I don't remember. Because I don't remember the story. Yeah. Link saves... Zelda. Link saves Hyrule and Gannendorf is in it. Yeah.

Because he always is. Ganon steals Zelda or some shit. Does Zelda have a good story? Look, I think, look. I'm just gonna call it out right. Right now. Like, I think, I think there's some interesting ones. Like, I know, look, everyone always talks on Majora masks. It's fucking creepy and it's weird. Yeah. And like, even if it's not a good story. Well, I mean, visually, you know of it and it's fucking cool. It's the moon. It's scared the fuck out of me as a kid because it's way scarier than any Zelda game. I have never played a single Zelda game for the story, you know, unfortunately. You know, there's a lot of stories I love. Can we Google? Zelda, Ocreen of Time story? Because I actually don't know. And I think a lot of the viewers also don't know. And a that they know. Or like, a lying.

A lying. Because I don't know a single put, okay. Okay, it's a coming of age story about a boy who loses his childhood to save the world. It begins with Link, a fairyless Kirkiri, learns that the evil Garuda King Ganendorf seeks to conquer high role. Link must travel through time, awaken Asian sages, and defeat the darkness. So yeah, it's a Zelda game. Yeah. Okay, so because I've been replaying, I've picked Tears of the Kingdom back up.

Don't ask me why. Okay. And I remember specifically you saying on one trash taste, I was like, you're, like, this is the best Zelda story for a while. I was just like, damn, Joe, this is just a Zelda story. I'm gonna be real with you. It's a Zelda story. I think, no, I think with Teas of the Kingdom,

the way that they expand upon the Hyrule lore is really interesting. Okay, right? Because it's like, you know, breath, I'm pretty sure Breath of the Wild and Teas of the Kingdom is like, kind of a precursor to a lot of the Zelda law, like, of the previous game. So it explains a lot about, like, how Hyrule came to be and like the kind of the the the the law of i guess like gannon as a character right so like that's

explained a lot in uh or at least it attempts to explain a lot in tears of the kingdom which is why i thought it was more interesting than you know occur in time which is just like oh ganon bad trying to take over wall link get his ass you know yeah the first ever all-electric 26 Subaru Trail Seeker is the EV for the Trail Obsessed, with up to 444 kilometers on a full charge and DC fast charging from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes in ideal conditions. Plus, ample ground clearance and symmetrical all-wheel drive make the 2026 Trail Seeker the most capable EV Subaru has ever built. Test drive it at your local Subaru dealer or visit Subaru.ca.

I mean, I could see that where, you know, there's a difference between. like in my mind, like there's a clear difference between a world that has interesting law and something that has like a compelling narrative. And you know, Zelda to me has always just been very simple. Link saves the world, coming of age story, you know, save Zelda. And then all the, all like the different iterations of Zelda have had different law, different backstories, which I've, you know, you can really sink your teeth into. Yeah, the Zelda law timeline is incredibly complicated. And even my previous thing of

like, I'm pretty sure Breath of the Wild and Teeth of the Kingdom is a pre-co's, I don't even know if that's correct. Honestly, I don't think any Zelda fan actually knows like what the order is because that's constantly... There's definitely... Yeah, it's been constantly debated because it's never just like... Of the Zelda timeline? Yeah. Wasn't that officially announced by Nintendo?

Was it? Yeah. Oh shit. But I'm pretty sure there was like arguments from fans being like, no, actually Nintendo fucked up with the list. Yeah. So, so, so, So what I understand is that fans have been theorizing this for like decades and decades, the Zelda timeline. And then Nintendo actually released the official timeline a while ago. Yeah, but what if they're wrong, gone?

Okay. What do they come from them? What if Nintendo lied? Can we Google, is the Nintendo official Zelda timeline correct? Because I'm pretty sure. Because look, it doesn't matter if they say it's right. If the fans don't agree, they're like, no. Nintendo's official Zelda timeline is correct in that it is the publisher's official canon,

but it is highly debated within the fandom. Yeah, there you go. It contains conceptual inconsistencies and modern games like breath... Okay, so we're just... We're just ignoring the author then. We're just ignoring the source material. We're like... The author, bro.

Would you mean it's like a whole fucking split-up thing? They don't even know. It's pretty a mess of conglomerations and fucking corporations. Oh, that's right. Skywood's sword is the first one. The thing that people were, like, were freaking out about was, it was Ocreen of Time, right? Was the big, like, timeline splits. Yes.

Where there's a timeline where Link fails. Yes. On the left side there, yeah. And then it goes to Link to the Pass. Yeah. And, uh... Yeah, see, like, I'm not... Um, actually?

I'm not nearly into Zelda as much to understand all this. No. I generally trust the fandoms more than I do the... Yeah. I know how dedicated. the fandom is. And if the fandom says it's probably this, then it's probably that. Do you trust the fandoms more? I do, because they are not paid to care and they care more than any corporate. This is purely by passion. Because there's probably a guy at Nintendo who is like, hey,

hey, Derek, you got to do this all the time, man. He's like, no. I don't want to do it. And he's like, all right, let me refer to R slash Zelda then. Like, they've probably got to ask the Zelda in-house lawmaster who is probably pretty knowledgeable. But you know, You know what I mean? Like he's pretty, yeah. There's probably not a guy who's been paid to be the law master. You know what I mean? Like it's pretty got like five other jobs. Yeah. Whereas these people who love these games will literally make it that their job. Yeah. I don't think Aji O'Numa sat down and was just like, all right. I have to make sure this is all correct. Yeah. Because a lot of the times the reason why these games are not because there's like a passion. It's like, a boss needs another game. Yeah. The last one did great. I mean, I disagree with that. I'm sure everyone working on Zelda, bro. That's like a dream project, man. That's the last. That is, like, as a game developer, you get to work on fucking Zelda, you're like, hold up, hold up. I admire your starry-eyed view of this world and how it works.

Nah, man. I mean, blood, blood, blood. What is it? Passion is a pure, fucking, I'm bringing out the Trump card. All right, all right. Google Shigerra Miyamoto quote, games are a product.

Bring it out. Google it. Put the receipts on the table. Show me what the big man himself said. Brother, I don't care about the big man. What are you about you care about the big man? You don't care about the guy who made the fucking game. I'm gonna say it's fucking Japan, okay?

You know, let's look at the anime industry. You think fucking salaries are powering people? Like, powering people? That's my dad, actually. My dad. So that video games are products rather than works of art, God, okay? He sees it as a just another fucking big for the quarter. I'm gonna call it right now because I'm gonna say that's a fucking misquote.

That must be a fucking misquote. That's not a misinterpreted. I don't fucking believe that. shit, you know. Look, I'm telling you, okay, I'm sure there are times where they're like, fine, we'll make another Zelda, okay? They don't fucking want to make, you know, I didn't want to make Zelda two. The Zelda two, what the fuck was that? You're like the motherfucker who, like, that gay, like, um, that gaborate in every piracy discussion. Like every fucking barry discussion. No, no, you're doing that right now. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that.

And also I, I, people who only quote that is that argument of piracy are just people who are, don't want to fucking actually silly engage with the conversation about it. And they're like, well, my boy Gaben said it. I'm like, yeah, but Gaben has a fucking mega yacht, bro. Yeah. Stop listening to him and everything he says. Think for yourself.

But this is the reason why I'm saying this is because you literally are like, God, they all love it. Brother, brother, he. Well, come on, man. He's wrong, though, because video games can be wrong. They all works of art.

I agree with you, too. Yeah. But what I'm saying is that Nintendo doesn't be in his game works of art. He's not Nintendo. He's not every individual employee. He's not every individual employee right now. He's literally a founding member of the company.

He's not Nintendo. Nah, nah, you guys are wrong. There's passion in this industry. I believe it. Passion doesn't make a soul of products. Okay,

okay, okay. What if someone who comes to Nintendo and he's like your age and he's the one who decides the link timeline? Do you believe him? What do you mean?

He's like, he's like hired a Nintendo 10 years ago. We don't know who made the... Maybe me... Tell me who made this timeline. We don't know who made the timeline. You know what I mean? Like who...

Like who... When does it have legitimacy this timeline? You know? Is it just because Nintendo said it? Yeah. No, I don't believe it does. What more legitimacy can that possibly be? I don't believe it.

I don't believe it. Okay. Who's the Nintendo Lawmaster? I want to know. Look, it's... We cannot get more legitimacy than the actual makers of the product itself.

No, I disagree. I disagree. Because I think there are a bunch of games where the actual creator of the game loses track of the law that they created because they overcome. Look at fucking Kingdom Hearts. You think Nomura has any idea what the fuck is about to happen? No, that's why he keeps making the games to fill in the plot holes. I have a question about Kingdom Hearts because someone told me this.

I want to know if it's true. Because I just don't believe it. Yeah. Is the third game, do they beat the final bad guy by calling upon all the mobile gamers of the mobile game? Is this super real? Yep. Yeah, the final-

The final battle is they get a bunch of- All the mobile gamers. They call-all, yeah, they're just like, ring, ring, hello, Kingdom Hearts cross-players, get your ass in here. And it creates like this giant black cloud of souls, and you can see all of the usernames inside of it. So it's like, oh my God, Saur called upon the Kingdom Hearts fan base to defeat Zahar, or whatever the fuck his name was.

Zeyanort, thank you. I only, I've never played a Kingdom Mars game. I only know this because of my wife, but, yeah, and then now Kingdom Mars 4 is set in fucking Shibuya. Damn, my. So, tangent aside. Tangent aside. Tangent aside.

If Normura can't even fucking keep up with his own war, do you think Nintendo can? Well, I'm, I'm saying they are more legitimate than, you know, fans, unfortunately, because they are the makers, they're the creators. I think like, think about, the fans just keep track of, everything you've ever done so much better than you ever could. Yeah.

Look at Al-Fans. Maybe the only guy I trust to be eyes on top of it is like Oda. He's like the only guy who seems to be on top of it. Yeah. Like he knows. He keeps track. But like the truth is, I mean, look at fucking... Do you trust...

Look at Iraqi, bro. He's like, what fight? He doesn't even know the fights he wrote. Like, what do you mean? Where's the fans? Yeah. Where's the fans? Well, literally everything.

They know everything to like a, like, a, shocking amount of detail. Do you trust your Twitch chat more than your own memory? Yes. If Twitch chat said you like... I used them as like memory bags because I'll tell them things that remind me. Because I don't... They'll remember everything.

He's gone too far. I don't really... That's a separate issue. They're so... People are so, like, fans are so good at keeping track of things so much better than the greatest. I agree, but in terms of... Like, a...

It's a dangerous... game to play to give a fandom that much collective power to determine canon. I think that when like a series gets so long running, that the creatives almost lose like the ability to actually can on can on a size it. I don't know if it's a word. Also, in the case with Legend of Zelda, I don't think they created the game franchise with like no, a cohesive war in mind.

Like they just made. the individual games and then they realized, oh, we have enough games now where we're starting to kind of get a glimpse into the entire law. So let's try to piece together the law in some fashion that kind of makes sense. Right. But, you know, according to the Zelda fan base, it's just like, no, you're forgetting some stuff actually. So we don't believe you. DLDR, no, I don't think Okie no, I don't think Okina of time would be popular for came out today. Although we'll see with a remake. Although that's technically a different game. But this, this game. I'm excited for the remake.

If this game comes out. But we're not talking about the remake, because the remake would have to change a bunch of things. Yeah. But I do think if it changes the gameplay a bit, makes... I don't know. I'd never finish Okerina of time, so maybe actually finishing it would make me

realize why this game is viewed as such a master's. Yeah, I mean, look, it's not my favorite Zelda game, but it's still a fantastic game, and I understand how much this game means to so many people. Yeah. So I get, like, the hype around like I'm definitely gonna play when it comes out but like I'm also worried of like

what more can they do to this game to like improve upon it you know whether it be changing the story or gameplay change or something if it's just like a fucking re-skin then it's like I don't know I'm gonna be a little disappointed if that's the case

anyway that was all right I can't imagine how many Zelda fans were pissed off with it SpongeBob Joe's not here. Jerry loves French Rob. Joe, Jerry's pissing. I mean, I think it absolutely does hold off.

I mean, we recently, I mean, I recently watched it for the first time. Yeah. On the trash taste anime club. And I thought it had aged wonderfully. I think it occupies for me the same space as like, almost like Tom and Jerry. Kind of earned the timeless status. SpongeBob. SpongeBob.

Oh, that has aged incredibly well. I watch her for the first time during COVID. Am I the anyone who fucking grew up with this shit? I didn't grow up with Nickelodeon. I was poor. Thanks for bringing it off, Connor. You didn't have a laptop or something? Oh, brother, this was before.

I didn't have cable, you know. Yeah, me neither. Yeah, my dad had cable. Thank God. And the only reason why is because he was not missing a football game. Oh, fair. It was like, I was like, I don't, son, you can use this. and get whatever.

Yeah. But my dad really wanted to watch football. Right. Thank God, because that was how I watched Futurama, Simpsons. Right. Yeah.

SpongeBob. They did Futurama and Simpsons reruns on Australian TV, like outside of cable, but a lot of the Nickelodeon shows, I don't know, I just, I was too much of a cartoon network kid. They weren't separated in the UK.

Oh, in Australia, they were separated. We just had the... I'm pretty sure it was anyway, at least in my memory. Maybe it was actually separated, but we had both channels. Right. So I would flip whichever one

had the most interesting things. I mean, I feel like the biggest reason I think, you know, even if it aired today, it would be decently popular, is just because there's a reason why it is lived on in memes, right? It's because it is so, it plays into meme culture so fucking well. And I think, obviously, it's still relevant today. But even if it aired today, I still think there would be a bunch of memes coming out. Well, because I guarantee a lot of the people who are using SpongeBob memes on the regular, especially though. in the younger generation probably didn't watch a lot of SpongeBob, you know, or maybe they did, but like the latest seasons where a lot of the memes don't actually come from. Because like,

most of the SpongeBob memes come from like the first couple of seasons of SpongeBob, right? Well, those are like the golden. Yeah, those are like the golden seasons. And like when I finally actually sat down and watched, I think, the first three seasons of SpongeBob during COVID, like, yeah, okay, you know, obviously it took me back to the time of like, you know, the 90s and 2000s cartoons that I grew up with. So there was like a weird sense of Necessus. even though I didn't grow up with this show. But a lot of the jokes and like a lot of the stories are still really fucking funny. And I think, I think it aged incredibly well.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, it's weird watching it in like modern day because half, half of my watched experience is just like, just going, oh, oh. Yeah. You don't realize how many like memes came out of it. It's crazy. You can pause at any moment of any episode during the first three seasons and guarantee it's probably a meme.

Like every screenshot is a meme from those first couple of seasons. Yeah, I mean, it was just such strong, like, I don't know, not framing, but art direction and the ability to just kind of craft these frames, which is really fucking funny. Yeah. And just visually very stimulating, but also the jokes are great for kids or adults. Yeah. What makes a piece of media, like, more memeable than others? You know, what?

There's like an intentionality to how, like, absurd the character reactions are in a way that it's, like, really fun and easy to share. Yeah. Like, very, like, kind of, kind of this sense of, like, surrealism, almost that takes you out of everything you have previously known about. Like, you know, like, it's not memed as much today, but, like, that's a big reason why, like, Renan Stimpy was, like, really fucking well regarded back in the day, because it was just so absurd and so obscene that it's just one of those shows.

that like sticks with you forever if you experienced it. I think also when a show is very popular, like SpongeBob, sometimes memes kind of rely a bit on the like audio that plays in your head. Like there's that one sort of meme when the guy's opening the toilet. He's like, oh. Oh, yeah.

But you kind of can feel that kind of audio in your head. Yeah. Like the tone, which allows you to then, when you share it, everyone kind of has immediately put in the exact same, like, headspace because you know the audio, you know the feeling of the scene, which I think helps a lot.

That's why, you know, maybe there's shows that have some memes, but maybe not as many, such not as popular. I think it's the popularity of Spontrop that finds itself to me. I was thinking about it, is it memes that helps the show gets popular?

Or is it popular shows that gets memes? I think it's a symbiotic relationship. I think popular shows get memes. Because I was like, I was trying to think, like, why is it this generation of anime fans that is just JJK memes? You know, what is it about... It's popular.

Yeah, because everyone's watching it. It's like being in on the joke. Everyone wants to be in on the joke. It's the water cooler conversation. But it has so many, though. It has, I mean, like, Demon Slayer is popular. Where the fuck are the Demon Slayer memes? Well, I mean, I think it also helps

when a show is heavily stylized. Think, like, Jojo, JJ. There's a lot of, like, it's, like, fun to mimic because it's, like, it's stylish. I think it's fun to be in on the know of JJ. because you can you can be a part of it. But also, I do think there's this kind of laziness to it where like it's nice because you can just watch one show and be in on like half of regular pop culture.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I think that's kind of also the reason why it gets meamed so much because it's kind of like a critical mass of like the more popular a show gets in terms of memes, the more people want to get involved so they can be kept with the memes. But then in turn, people who are consuming these memes are likely to be creating more memes. So it just, it kind of explodes. I think the more, when it reaches like a critical mass of memes,

it will just keep making more. Yeah, but I think that's... Same with like Metal Gear and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Games that kind of reach that level, just like keep like self-fueling. Yeah. Because new people are being exposed to the memes and the media,

getting into it, then making more memes. Yeah, and I think that explains why like SpongeBob, for example, has just kind of superseded that and kind of gone into like a legacy status, right? Because there's no fucking active SpongeBob Square. pants fan base on the internet that people are making these memes for. You know, it's just like, it's just become that thing that is outside of that whole, um, you know, uh, identity of like the group or anything, you know, like you don't, just because you post the SpongeBob meme doesn't mean that you're like part of the

SpongeBob fan base or whatever, right? Like, it's just kind of become its own identity, which I think is very telling of the fact that the show has just aged incredibly well. My favorite phenomenon is when you get an old show that was made before the meme era, kind of like resurface. Big Chungus? Big Chungus. No, the one, the recent one that fucking surprised me

was that Ashtana Joe meme. Like the fucking, I'll see you again. Have you seen that meme? No. No. I've seen that mean fucking everywhere. It's a scene from Ashton and Joe

where like, it's like when you and your bro like say goodbye for the last time. Yeah, Ashton Joe. But like this scene has been fucking on my timeline for ages. And I don't know why. It's like suddenly this,

This meme is back again and I'm like, I guarantee 99.9% of people who are using this meme have never seen us. It's the one of the top left. Yeah, the top left is that one. Send this to bro. Yeah, send this to bro. It's just like him disappearing into the light. Yeah. Yeah, he like walks off into the rain and he's like, I'll see you again.

Yeah, it's a... I'm like, why did this become a meme? That's what I love about it. Some... See you again? You just can't predict it anymore, you know what I mean? Yeah. And this is the one way to get new fans into all-wit shows.

Out of context is so funny. There you go. All right. Yeah, SpongeBob, please watch at least the first three seasons if you've never seen it. Definitely aged well. Sword art online. Oh, here we go, boy. Here we go.

obviously if you're a new anime fan or you've gotten into anime the past five years you've already missed the absolute mania that was the sort of online because when it came out holy shit this was the show this got a lot of people into anime yeah this transition a lot of people

from normal people to anime fans arguably the start of the wasn't the first modern like Isekai but arguably popularized yeah definitely this starless show start a lot of the explosion of these types of shows started with Sword Art and Lion back in the day even though it wasn't the first but it definitely got the popularity.

The reason why I think is because I'm trying to like look back and to think why the fuck this show became so popular but I think it was at the peak like online gaming phenomena combined with that want to be like the fucking the go-chad. They kind of like got people into it and YouTube. Here's why I got popular, all right? This came out in an era where the term gamer

wasn't treated like a slur. You know, it's, do you remember an era where people were like trying to like empower? Like people, people are like, yeah, I'm a gamer. Like, unironically. Well, this is like, this is like peak double XP Doritos. Like, go to the supermarket. I'm trying to remember an era where gamer was considered a slur.

No, this is the era. I'm like, if I call you a gamer, Joey, I'm like, did I miss that train? Like, this is just like when everyone was kind of, like there was a hype of getting into gaming. Yeah, like everyone was like trying to pretend they were a gamer. People were proud gamers back then, you know, people, Joe, you're laughing. You're laughing, Joey.

And this was the era back then. People, people were proud to identify gamers. What year did it just sort of like him out? 20, 2012. Yeah, that's about about right, right? This is like after Modern Warfare 2, like four years after. Yeah, this is about the era where like ads, double XP collaborations, all the shit sort of happening where like everyone was game, game,

like constantly. So it kind of went in really well. Combined with, I think, a massive fact, which I think people forget, is that it was just on YouTube as well. It was pretty easy to pirate. Yeah. Yeah, true. And it blew up for a couple of various reasons on YouTube too.

Yeah. So, do you remember when, okay, I'm... Kai, can you Google, I am a gamer, not because I don't have a life. Because I, because I choose to have many. Like this, okay, yeah, this. I am a gamer, not because I don't have a life, but because I choose to have many.

This is peak. This was peak. You put this like on your Facebook and everything, you know, you are proud because you are getting clowned on, because you played games. And then Facebook group era as well. Yes, yes. You would like Facebook groups

depending on, you know, your interest. Yeah, this was like peak, I am a gamer and I'm proud of it. And, and what happened? What the fuck happened, man?

And then it became a slur. Apparently. So, yeah, this is very popular. I think, unfortunately, when you watch it, it's just not very good. Yeah. You know one of the reasons why?

I think because it's a shit game. Like the game within sort of online looks kind of shit. Yeah, but this also came out in a time when, you know, virtual reality was also like, ooh, VR gaming. I guess. That is true, yeah. People were like. Everyone was like, this is the future of gaming.

Yeah, people were. This is going to happen in 10 years. People are hyped at the idea of being able to like just, like, just like, what's the word they use? like link in, like link start, or a neural link into their game. Yeah. Before virtual reality became like such a big thing. Oh. This was like an exciting concept.

Doesn't matter that it's a good game. It's definitely the most unbalanced fucking game of all time. Yeah, Kiritos fucking busted from day one. It's a lot of bullshit. Yeah, he has the... He's not a gamer. He's a beta. I don't even remember that term. Because even back then I was like, you could have picked any other name. He played in the beta, right? Yeah, he played in the beta. He's a beta game. so he became a beta. I mean, SOTLine is just peak power fantasy for its time.

And power fantasy hasn't really gone anywhere new. I mean, look, power fantasy is a slop genre. Yeah, it hasn't gone anywhere new, but it doesn't mean that it's good. It's just a slop genre. I mean, there's not many good stories in power fantasy. Because it's a fucking fantasy. I mean, what's the line between like a power fantasy that we clown on and just like a power fantasy that is like glorified. Like, okay, James Bond.

Is that a power fantasy? Or... I'd say... What do you define as a power fantasy? That's what I'm asking right now. That's what I want to know first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is your definition of a power fantasy?

Look, James Bond, you know, like, middle-aged white man, like a super spy, gets all the girls, saves the world. Yeah, there is definitely a power fantasy aspect. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm.

It's like, to me, power fantasies have always existed. since like the beginning of like fiction because people want to escape their lives and you know feel... Also people don't want to like, you know, follow a story of like a guy who's just... or a guy or a girl who's just like, yeah, I'm the shit and then he gets absolutely slimed, right?

Yeah, to me, it's like, Sauta's line is just... The line is like, how cheap is it, you know? It's like... Kirito kind of became the most powerful person in there, got special abilities in a system that was rigged towards him being the protagonist, you know. But there's a lot of, I guess maybe like Bond specifically,

there's a lot of self-introspection to the character, at least in the newer movies, in the character of Bond, kind of making fun of him, everyone pointing out that he's weird and lonely, because he kind of is. There's a lot of comedy in there. Yeah.

I think there's a lot of self-reflection in at least newer Bond movies that, I mean, maybe because they've had the prior ones that are, like, glazing the shit out of him. Yeah. the greatest and, you know. But that's also kind of like an 80s, 90s trope anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

That's kind of died off. And so it does feel a bit dated to have sort of online. But also it feels kind of childish, you know? I think SpongeBob shows more maturity than sort of online sometimes. I mean, weirdly, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, because you watch, when I watch sort of online now and like I think back to it, I feel like embarrassed because I'm like, man, this is like a, like a sad power fantasy.

You know what I mean? It's kind of like a sad rendition of it. I don't know. Is that like a te? I don't know. I mean, I'm getting old. I don't know. I mean, I would say that sort art and the biggest thing that I don't think sort of art and lion has aged well is because there's just so much of the same thing now. I mean, you talk about power fantasy gaming anime or manga. I'm like, that's half the industry right now. You know, that's half like Isakai. Yeah. I think, you know, solo leveling. is the latest rendition of just the pure power fantasy. And that is basically very, very similar to sort art online, but just with even more aura farming.

Yeah. You kind of have like the video game aspect with it still. It's not like a video game, but you have like video game aspects. Yeah, the only difference is that Kirito looks fucking lame next to song. That's the only difference. That's the thing, man. Kirito was like the true ideal, like, gamer back then. And now he just looks like a soy boy compared to some of these modern oil farmers map.

He does. Yeah, that's true. Okay, Kutu gets mugged by. Yeah. Okay, so then considering the fact that we still very much have the whole power fantasy thing in Isakai, especially even in anime, if it was like just as just as the same as it is now where it's like you have your soul levelings, you have your power fantasy isa kis. And then as a brand new addition, sort out on. line came to the forefront. Do you think it would be just as popular? No, it'd be a failure. Yeah.

It's like Shangri-La is like, this but good. That's true. And that show was popular-ish. That's a proper gamer show. Yeah, yeah. But I feel like it did what Sort of Online kind of tried to do and was good. Yeah. Whereas Sort of Online, if it came out today, I feel like really would be kind of shoved to the back of the queue in terms of a lot of people's, they'd be like, yeah, it's kind of a, people would probably mock it more. Probably, yeah. I mean, I think Sawd Art Online was a Lightning in a bottle. I think

the gaming aspect was the big selling point for sort of line. Because it's not the first, like I said, it's not even the first like I Sekai kind of like not okay, like power fantasy. I mean, Dot Hack did it first, right? I mean, I would argue that, like, dot hack and Sawduteline have like very little in common, aside from being trapped in the video game. I would argue the first one I can think of is Zero Noce Kaima. Oh, yeah.

The familiar of zero. I feel like that much more aligns with what the model Eastern Isakai, like genres time. Man, you fucking took me back with Zend-Walt Skama. Bro. I fucking love this show. Yes. Zendarmus Kama was the shit back in the mid-200s.

Maybe ahead of its time, if anything. I'd say this was ahead of this time. This, I would say, if we're talking about the progenitor of the modern East Kai genre, I'd probably point to this, actually. Never thought about that. Out of everything. But maybe it was like before its time. Sword Us Online came in an era where it was the perfect

Storm where I think there was always going to be a show like Sword Art Online. That got popular. Yeah, of course. There were so many shows coming out. But it just came out at the right time where people wanted the same kind of like power fantasy, but gaming was getting popular and it was still cool back then. And gamers were empowered and they saw Sword Art Online. It was like, just like me for real, God.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right? That's true. And it had decent production values as well. And then afterwards, the industry became saturated, and I don't think it would, I don't think it would stand out today. It would just get lost in the crowd of other shows. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

There you go. And that's it. Next. Rip S-A-R-S-A-Rip-S-A-R-Kir-Kir-Kir-K. Rip-S-A-R-U-S-A-R. Okay, did it age well? Undertail. I would like to ask you guys, I've not played Undertail.

Never played Undertail. I mean, you know. know about it through the memes. I think you could still play it today is if you've, have you ever played it? No, I've never played it. I think you'd enjoy it if you went into it. I think you'd enjoy it as well.

Yeah, it's a really good game. Because what is good about Undertale? I mean, very question. So I think, first of all, I think any game that is developed by a solo dev in and of itself, even if it releases and it's bad, is like pretty impressive to go through with something,

but literally made everything, music, visuals, story, all done by October 4th. Fox, obviously, who did an amazing job. Obviously, the music, very iconic still, Megalovania, still one of the most iconic video game. Yeah. Sands, incredibly popular. Within 10 years, but essentially what it did at the time, which was take this kind of RPG formula and maybe take some elements from, you know, I don't know if it was inspired by it, but it very much feels like, I don't know if you know these like Madfather games, like these old

RPG maker games, RPG maker games that are kind of like a lot more gory and gritty it kind of captured the kind of fear of those games and kind of unknown aspect of them and brought them into this kind of a um submersive submersive subversive uh RPG maker where you you know you start open and everything is going well and you're in this tutorial and everything seems happy and suddenly things start getting like really depressing because you fight uh you can fight the like tutorial person and when you kill them they actually like fucking die. And it's quite traumatizing.

And then as you start to like go through and talk people, you, you know, your instinct is to just fight everything that lets you fight it. And the game kind of tries to push you to be like, hey, maybe you should like talk to people or try to. Yeah. It gives you the option to either be a pacifist or be just murder essentially. Yeah. So from what I understand, my entire knowledge of Onetale is just purely through memes.

But would you guys say that it's a meta game? Uh, yes. It, I would say it's, I wouldn't, I don't know if I'd call it necessarily a fourth wall breaking game. Um, but it definitely, I mean, so the backstory of Undertale or Toby Fox is that he originally, uh, kind of got infamous on the internet because he made a Halloween mod of mother three. Um, that was like the thing that he kind of used because he's, I mean, if you play Undertale and you've played Earthbound, then it's like, a lot of similarities. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, gave them all the time, which is valid. But he took a lot of inspiration from Earthbound in the sense that the thing that made Earthbound really revolutionary back in the day was the fact that it kind of subverted your expectations of what you would consider a normal RPG to be. Because up until that point, RPGs were very much just like, you're a hero who's there to save the earth, and then you have to go through the different levels, fight monsters, and then you get to the final boss, and then that's it. whereas Earthbound kind of took that formula and did this really good job of kind of balancing the serious aspects with the really kind of ridiculous absurdist aspects of like you'd be you know the story of Earthbound is like very serious in that sense of like you know Ness is there to you know stop guy I guess from destroying the world and all that kind of stuff which is very typical but along the way you kind of the game kind of throws you these small moments especially with the NPCs that kind of uh

like kind of takes away all of the strength in your shoulders of being like, oh, wait, why am I so serious about this game? This is just like a fun, whimsical, you know, comedic kind of game that doesn't take itself seriously. And it does a really good job of balancing those two things. And I think Undertale does the exact same thing. Undertale obviously has a very serious story with a proper plot and well-constructed characters, but along the way, it just gives you those little jabs of being like,

why are you taking this game so seriously? This is just a fun, you know, unserious game. really strong characters and characterization. The gameplay's pretty cool. It's still kind of quite unique, the bullet hell dodging in the box. Oh, yeah. That was so cool. Also the kind of like DDR fights as well. Yeah.

Pretty cool too. Have you seen these? No. There's like points in the game where like if you choose a more violent path, you know, some of the characters start fighting you. And they have some really fucking, he uses some really very awesome creative ways of making this box. Interesting. Like the box will shrink or get bigger.

Right. And then they'll be like, like arrows that pop up on the screen. You have to like base certain ways. It's really, really cool. Yeah. And the DDR aspect actually comes from a core gameplay loop of Mother 3. So Mother, so Earthbound Mother 2 was your standard, you know, just JRP with like your HP, MP, you know, tone base kind of stuff. Mother 3 did an interesting thing where they used this thing called the beat system where essentially every time you attack that you have to listen to the background music that's playing at the time. And if you hit A to the beat of the music,

music, then it does extra damage. So it kind of adds this, it kind of adds this like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like, um, a rhythm game aspect to it as well. And I think that's where he got the inspiration for like, like, the bullet held DDR fights in undertale, because that was also really, really unique at the time. Um, but yeah, obviously he took that one step further and was like, yeah, let's add like a bullet hell element. Let's add like, uh, yeah, you know, if you go like the pacifist route, for instance, like, you don't even attack. Like, you just have to fucking dodge and hope that the enemy, You have to talk to every enemy.

You have to talk to the NPCs and to get them to basically mercy you. Right. It was cool because at the time there was no concept of like if you were in a battle, it was generally like, oh, you would have to fight. Yeah. Or run. But the game kind of offers you plenty of opportunities to be like, hey, every enemy can be spoken to.

You should try and learn how to speak to every enemy. So it's pretty cool because the game, at every point just kind of it's a virtual expectations like, are you sure you want to do that? Yeah, you're sure this is the right move? It's almost like Toby's kind of playing with the player at the same time

as the player is playing the game. It's just like the player will be like, I'm going to make this decision and then the game kind of gives you this feeling that Toby is looking over you and being like, are you sure you want to do that? And this had been obviously done before like these, you know,

there's obviously interactions or moments in video games that you could talk to the NBC midfight, but I don't think a game had done it so successful. Thematically across the game On top of providing like three Like the story is so distinct Depending on which kind of path you go down It changes quite quickly

And the vibe changes like Just kind of for example like To go down the like it's called genocide route Where you kill everyone You don't have to like not only do you have to kill everyone You have to like go around and walk in the area For like an hour or two like total across the game Like just re-kill

the same monsters before you've reached the kill count required to like trigger that like thing. So it's like it's not even about killing everything around you. You have to like actively just keep searching and killing in like such a like you could only do this if you're trying to get this ending way. And that is played off in the dialogue when you're talking and how this route goes. Right. And obviously normally you wouldn't do this route first. So a lot of the characters talk to you like they know that you're doing this the second time. But like why would you do this? Like this is so. fucked up? Is it just to see something else? And that's what gives the game such

amazing replay value. Because you're essentially playing like three or four different games at the same time. And it's your choice of what you want to do with it. And if you go into it completely blind, then some of those endings are fucking crazy. I think the genocide run ending is like, that blew my mind. Well, that's where you hear Megalovania. Yeah.

So you don't hear Megalovania unless you do this one of a super year. Yeah. Because that's not, that's only when you fight sands. Yeah. I guess the thing, uh, The thing I'm always curious about is because, you know, when you talk about subverting expectations a lot in terms of when this came out.

And I find with a lot of media, I'm going to use Madoka Maggiacca as an example. No, let's say Madoka Magiore. It really, like, subverted, like, a lot of audience expectations for what a magical show, a magical girl show could be, right? When it came out, it was like a big surprise. there was like that twist that happened

and it turned out to be a much darker show than it initially seemed. But nowadays, it's like every fucking magical show is dark, yeah. It's dark, you know, and edgy a bit. It's lost that initial, like, surprise to it. Yeah. Do you think until still ages well,

despite how much of an effect it's had on the culture of that time? I think so. Yeah, I think so. Because I don't know of many other games and maybe this is just my lack of indie game knowledge, but I don't know many other games since Undertale came out that has done gameplay loops or like a gameplay system

that Undertale has done that is just as effective as how Undertale did it. Right. Because again, considering the fact that he took a lot of these elements from Earthbound and Mother 3, he still managed to make something completely and wholly unique out of it, which I don't think there's ever been a game since those three games. games that has done it as well as those three games, to be completely honest.

Maybe, I don't know, I haven't played Delta Roon, so maybe Delta Roon has done something with it as well, but... Yeah, I've got to play Delta Roon. I've been waiting for the whole thing to come out. Yeah, same. Apparently, everyone tells me that each act is basically an undertale. Oh, really? Okay, okay.

Yeah, I know, I know Delta Run is like just as big of fan base, if not a bigger fan base than Undertale now. Well, what's funny is that, like, when I played Fear and Hunger, they have a talk button. And I, you know, because I played Undertail, like... What are you doing here? Oh, you reckon they took it from one? And I was like, I'll talk to everything. Yeah.

It turns out in that game, they just kill you. Because I'm like, you're fucking moron. Why are you trying to talk to me? I'm trying to fucking kill you. But it was interesting how that button was there and was almost used my knowledge of the talk button existing. Right. As a, again, like, oh, maybe there's a pacifist around or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there wasn't. There's like, but then there's like three enemies in the game that you can talk to you out of like 50. Oh, I see. There are so enemies that will talk to you, but they try to make it more. thematically accurate, like, why you can talk to them.

Right, right. You need to think more. It's not just everyone can be talked to. It's like, no, there are some just monsters, and they will kill you. But it's interesting how that was used against me. Yeah. My knowledge of the system. Yeah. That's definitely subverting expectations.

Either way, yeah. Definitely, I think it holds up as my... Yeah, I think it's aged incredibly well. And you should play it. You should definitely give... Undertales fantastic. At least do, like, I think you can do all the endings pretty quickly in a... day. You reckon? I was, I was probably going to stream it. How long to beat undertale?

Question mark? How long to get all endings? Until, I'm pretty sure. Six to nine hours to complete a standard play-through. Yeah, so completion is just 20 plus hours. Really? I really feel that you can do it way faster. But maybe that's because I know what I'm doing. You just built diff. I feel like it's just not that long. It takes two to three hours neutral ending, one to three hours for good ending and Harblown. Yeah, yes. I think it's easily you can do all endings in a day. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, give it a go, though. It's great.

Okay. Also play Earthbound and Mother 3 because they're also fantastic. Next up. Care for your skin like you care for the game. Dove Men Plus Care is an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026 and

has just dropped their new limited edition deodorant and antipersprint collection for 72 hours sweat, and odor protection, helping you stay fresh, from kickoff to the final whistle. Visit dove.com slash CA slash E.N. slash men dash care to shop now. I have an anime. Oh. Which one? La Kill. Kill. Kill. Has Kill La Kill aged well? Hmm. Never had to think about this. Um, hmm. Yes. Would it also?

If it released today, how much discussion would it have? Oh my God, this would be like the most controversial thing of the time of Twitter. A hundred percent. Twitter would lose their mind. Naked woman? I mean, I think it got a fair amount of discussion even way back when in 2013.

Yeah, I think even then, I think it was pushing it for some people. Yeah. The limit of like what was cool and what was not cool. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, Trigger tends to do that, though. Trigg is like kind of, we don't give a fuck. kind of studio in a lot of ways.

I mean, Kill to Kill as a show, I think still 100% holds up. Yeah. It is insane that is one of Trigger's like first big shows. And they kind of just went off the hype of Guren Lagarde, which is another show I think has aged wonderfully as well. And they're like, you know what, let's just have Gere and Lagan, but no mex this time. And everyone powers, everyone is powered by being nudity. Yeah, it's powered by nudity.

That is it. Yeah, their clothes are holding them back. Yes, yes. It is going true JRP armor. It's about as degenerate as it can get, to be honest. Yeah, I don't know. I'm always been curious what the modern anime community feels about Killer Kill. Not just in terms of like the obvious, you know, nudity and whatnot, but like also just like in terms of just like that type of storytelling.

Because I don't know Because I remember when, you know, Kill a Kill Back in the day, I remember it Even though yes, there was a small group of people Who were kind of, you know, making it a contentious topic Based on nudity, but like, I feel for the most part It was pretty universally, like, loved. No, it was pretty universally though.

At the time, it was like, I remember everyone's like, It's Saved Anime. Yeah. Do you remember this when everything had to save anime? No. Yeah, do you know? Really? Yeah, I don't remember that.

I remember that. Really? Yeah. Everyone was like, this is saved. anime. Kill the kill. Because it's gone to woke, you see. 10, 12 years ago. No, I think, because I come up, what, what happened in the late 2000s that people were like,

it's shaved anime? So I remember talking about this before. So what online came out. No. So there were two things that I missed out. I briefly talked about the season before, three came out. And I think, and the fans were like, what? Mail fan service? What is going on? I've talked about in previous episode. But I forgot another thing that was also happening in the anime community.

And that was the invasion of the Moe shows. Oh, the Moe Blob movement. Yeah, the Moe Blob movements, thanks to Keon, where there was just a lot of shows, and it was just cute girls do cute things. Yeah, the Moly Blobs' slice of life movement. Yeah, and that exploded in the early 2010s. And people were, they were like,

where is my next action show? Where's my next, like, fan service show? and then along comes kill the kill. Had fan service, but had a legitimate reason for the fan service as much as you can kind of push it to also kind of say, hey, these girls are varying very little,

but it kind of makes, it thematically makes sense in the universe, so we're doing the pass. Also the flavor and style of just like the kind of absurdist trigger animation that you know, it wasn't a one for one to Gurin Lagan, but you could definitely see similarities to him. Like, that was also just mind-blowing for anime fans back in the day. Like,

there was no anime that had, I mean, other than maybe like Panning Stocking, there was no anime that even looked and felt like kill-to-kill. Yeah. I think that's why people were like, this is the future of anime, you know. You know, you know, the hard part about, when did they come out again? What year did they come? 2013. 13 years ago. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, I watched it as it was airing, which means I would have been 16, which is crazy, right? Because I remember really liking it, but they were all kind of like my age.

Which, you know, it's like a really hard discussion to have because it's like my memory of it. Yeah. I liked it a lot when I was watching it. Yeah. Because it was like hot girls around my age getting naked. So like, of course I thought like, yeah, this is the fucking shit. Yeah, I mean, I was, what, 18 when it came out?

I wonder, like, if I watched it now, how would I feel watching it now given that I'm just older? Like I genuinely don't know because my memories I have a vet of funness. I personally think I would still really enjoy it because it's again just I mean, you know, maybe I'm just saying this

because I'm a fucking trigger simp but like I think what trigger does really, really well and why it has such an identity even within the anime industry now that where there's like God knows how many fucking studios that are coming out, you know, nowadays. It's just that it's just that

it just has that very unique quality of the creators just being like, we don't really give a fuck how people feel about this or like how it's, you know, maybe, you know, not consumed, but like, you know, maybe taken in by audiences. We just want to do this because we love the absurdity of it. We love how balls of the walls it is. And that energy you can really feel even in a show like Kill or Kill and especially in a Show like Kill or Kill, which I don't think very many even today are able to convey all that uniquely? No, I mean, in terms of the kind of like the fan-surfy aspect of it, it's almost like, kind of like the Jojo fan service.

Yeah, it doesn't take itself seriously. Where it pushes the boundaries so far, and it's so absurdist about it, that you just don't take it seriously, but at the same time, you do 100% take it seriously, if you know what I mean? Yeah. In, I think even in modern day, God, the discourse around it must be, it would be so fucking toxic, but I still, I still, I still, I still, still think the majority of audiences

would vibe with this absurdist like approach to the story and the characters. But, you know, I mean, when we discuss something like this, there is a real thing, dude, it sucks because the online is so fucking run by bots

and like absolute extremists who are trying to push like super puritanical views to push like their own views. So anything that doesn't align with that is like being kind of targeted. Yeah. And I do think like any kind of like anime like this would just be used as like a thing of like,

look, look at these creeps, look at what they like. And it's like, I just don't think it's that deep. Like, but the problem is I don't actually think that most anime fans see it that way. But there's a, there's a very loud amount of users that make money off of kind of pushing that narrative. Yeah, of course.

This is disgusting and all that. And like, look, I'm sure there are scenes in it that are not great now if I look back and I'm like, I remember the teacher had some sussi. Look, I remember the teacher's been weird. I will defend a lot of scenes in this show as, you know, as the as the gooner that's at I am. There's a lot of scenes where I'm like, you know, actually, know, this narratively makes sense. Yeah.

There's also a scene where I think, uh, the mother fingers like, did you remember this? No. The mother, uh, what's her name, Satsky? Was that her name? Uh, wasn't Yuko and. Yucon Satsky. Satsky. Yeah, doesn't it like her mom,

like finger in the bath or something? What? No, I don't remember. Do you not remember this? Wait, what? All right, look up, kill, look your fingering. Dude, that is absolutely not what it's gonna show off.

Invaluate that scene. In episode 16. Mature content. Oh, fuck. So we just... Okay. What happened in this scene? Reddit.

Yeah. Okay. I do remember this scene. No, you, you've already forgot because... I don't remember the, fingering though. I saw that screenshot and I was like, I remember this scene, but I don't remember what happens in it. KTLDR, let's have a look. Why did this happen? Ragia was molesting

Zatsky to make her feel uncomfortable being naked, so she'll give herself over to the life fibers and covers to remind her of her humanity, her instinctual desire to serve clothing and cover herself. Okay, so there's a reason. There's a reason. There's a narrative reason. This is character the development actually. Wow. See, like, I, okay, so like, what I always found interesting though was that why was, say, for example, kill-a-kill a target of this kind of like over-sexualization and like goonabed or whatever.

Because it was very sexualized. And yet, and yet, Penny and Stocking wasn't. I, Penny-Stocky, despite being sexual, I mean, wasn't. Penny-stocking is gigasexual. They say fuck every three words. Well, that's not sexual. Well, I mean, I don't know if you've seen, have you seen the recent Pany Stocking season two?

It's like even more vulgar than season one. There's an aspect of, dare I say, try hardness that isn't cool in Pany and Stocking. Can I, am I like to say? What do you mean? What do you mean? To try it a little too hard. To what? To be grueless. It insists upon itself to be edgy.

And I think it ends up backfiring in the sense of like, it's not that cool. I disagree. I disagree with that. Yeah. It's kind of, to me, I think Pantin Stokin is doing the opposite. I think it's going so over the top that no one can take it seriously.

Well, to me, that's what I meant. Like, it goes... But I wouldn't say that's try hard. Yeah. But I think it tries too hard to be like, look, look how different we are. Look how edgy we are. Whereas like, Killer kills, like,

the guy's like, I just really am fucking weird and I'm going to make this show. Well, I see, I disagree. And here's the reason why. Sure. What makes Pantian stocking so entertaining to me is because it is... I'm just like I was entertained.

I don't see it as like, I think that's half the reason why it wasn't like goonabate. No, it's... Oh. Because I feel like the reason is because Fanny Stalking is how the Japanese creatures view American culture. Oh, right, right, right. And it's like, they have, like, the vulgarness and they have the swearing and the sexualization. And it's kind of this weird, like...

It's kind of this weird product where it's, like, trying to emulate, like, the South Parks and, like, the... you know, the raunchy, like maybe like South Park family guy, whatever. But it's just not quite hitting that, like, legitimacy to it. But it's still a very, very entertaining take on it. And I think that's what makes it work. It makes fun of itself. I think that's what makes painting stocking so great.

Also, I think this is a whole other discussion, but I think when characters, like, in the show, like, talk about or, like, actually have sex with other characters, it's like their stock goes down. What? For like fan service and shit. Like, and I think because panties talking like have sex with characters,

like all the time. Yeah. I think that that's like to some people, that makes them less attractive. So what you're saying is implied sexuality is more offensive than actual sexuality. Say that again, sorry? You're saying that the implied sexuality

of say kill or kill where it's like, oh, girls barely wearing any clothes but not necessarily doing anything. is more offensive than actual just characters having sex. Offensive? Yeah. No, as in I think people find that more attractive. Oh, they find them more attractive.

I think some people find that way more attractive. No, I get that. I think when a character has sex on screen, like a lot of people find them not attractive anymore. Right, so then why, so, no, but like my question was what, like, why I think why are people more up in arms about the sexuality of kill will kill than as opposed to panting stalking when they're younger. I mean, that's the truth.

I mean, that's like, I guess so. It's like, adults. It's like pretty made clear relatively that they are. You know, I think, I guess because they're like younger. I don't agree with that, actually. Really? Yeah.

Or maybe is it because they're Western whores? These Bondi Blonde whore. You know, they're not my pure Japanese women who have not been defiled by Western ideals. Yeah, I don't know. This is a question. My pure Japan. This is always this question I've had of like, you know, Why was one targeted more than the other,

even though the other is definitely more sexualized? I would say, number one, Kiela Kiel was far more popular. And in terms of, in terms of, like, culture defining, Kiel was much more in the forefront. Number two, Pany and Stocking was a comedy show, primarily. It was primarily making fun of itself and of the culture itself. So there was like no reason to criticize it

because it wasn't a narrative that took itself seriously. Whereas kill-le-kill meets this perfect middle ground of if you try to talk about the narrative reason for, you know, them being, them wearing the attire that they did. There is a narrative reason, but it's really hard to defend it without coming off as that fucking guy who defends every sex scene in anime. You know what I mean? It's, I feel. It's, yeah. Okay. It's like a white guy who tries to explain why he doesn't like sinners without sounding racist.

No, no, it's just like, I think it's great. I just, you know, for me, it really didn't deserve 15 Oscars. Yeah, yeah. Really? But there is an aspect to that. Like there is an aspect to that. But I feel like now, now even just making my point, I do think that the reason that if you engage with the show itself, the majority of people will still understand that it's just like,

the loud minority that will have an issue. Of course, yeah, yeah. It's because I'm thinking of, like, a show that has gone, that has gone through something similar of a discussion as what kill or kill would go through. And that's chainsaw man. You talk about, you know,

you talk about some of the, you know, more sexual scenes than chainsaw man. And on the surface, people are like, this is what's wrong with anime. This is just guna bait. Denji is just a guna. And then people who are actually engaged with the story and characters, they're like,

no, no, no, hold on. You know, There's a reason why this happened. I also feel like this is purely, and maybe I have my tinfall headers on here, but I feel like this is purely just a side effect of the times we live in with the platforms being encouraged

to make these kind of posts. I don't think actually anime fans, I don't think there's actually any anime fan that would not change to anything like, wow, this has gone too far. Oh, wow, this is too much. Well, this is not good. They're called tourists.

You know, right? Also, this narrative, of around tourists is like, just, I, no, I don't, I don't believe it's as prevalent as people want you to believe it. I think people like making an enemy and they've somehow made immigrants in, they've just done the same thing again. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, like, actually, if you just go to an anime convention, there's no single fucking person there that would argue this is inappropriate. Yeah, no one goes around looking at the cosplays being like, this is inappropriate. But it's just people who want fucking ad rev on these platforms. It's not real. Like, it's all, it's all,

It's all in your head. Yeah. Because you talk to most anime fans and most anime fans don't have an issue. I've never spoken to a single anime fan that is ever out of the take of. Wow, that was really inappropriate. It's not, it's not happened.

It's like the voices here are the extreme sides on both sides, I'd say. I don't even think half these sides are real, though. I don't even think they might not be real. You're right. Well, I'm sure people have that opinion. I think some are, some are very real, but they are definitely like the loudest voices.

And most of the time, it's because they... Want to get that Twitter out real? Or it's like, what happens is, this is again, this is almost exclusively a Twitter problem. But it's like they will try to get normies, people who don't watch anime, people who have nothing to do with anime. Like they will try to explain, well, this kid gets fucked in this anime. And it's like a way to kind of like, be like, hey, look what's going on over here. Yeah. Look at these anime.

This is a representation of all of it, by the way. Yeah. It's like, that's not, again, it's not nothing to do with it. And I think, unfortunately, it's why I even have. hate having this discussion. It's like, I don't even think this argument is in good faith. I don't even think people who are arguing for the other aspect of it are arguing a good faith. And they're arguing for AdRav. Yeah. And arguing for Twitter engagement. I don't think this is like actually a legitimate opinion. Which is why people get upset about this stuff. I'm like,

you are also just trying to get your fucking five cents of ad rev. I don't believe you. And that's why like on YouTube, you never see these kind of discussions or arguments, right? Almost exclusively you don't really except from channels. They are there. But it's definitely not as much or as prevalent as, you know, front page on your Twitter or stuff like that. Right, right. But again, when it does happen on YouTube, unfortunately, I do think due to the lack, the way these websites are structured where you are almost encouraged to have a really out there opinion.

Yeah. Because you get more ad-reve, you get more engagement, because people are going to clown on you. Because people might be like, you know, I've seen it a couple of times. I haven't, obviously haven't gone on the while. But when I used to go on Twitter, I'd see people posting videos of like a creator that they disagreed with to, like, get people to like clown on him or them. and that I think half the time they created

they knew full well what they were doing they're like hey I need this to blow up because I need this to be a discussion otherwise this video falls flat so I think you need to really like when these discussions happen online you need to really keep in mind when you're being played and I think a lot of the time we're being played way more than we'd like to admit yeah and when you have a discussion about stuff like this

especially when I think there is maybe some legitimate criticism here it's really tough to have that discussion actually on an online forum. Yeah. I mean, it's like the argument as well when we get into stuff like this, it's like, you know, there's like a genuine like debate

in like films and movies. Like, do you need to have the scene? Does it need to be shown? Should it be implied? When should it be shown? When should it not be shown? This kind of stuff is like genuinely like,

I think an interesting discussion. Yeah. And I think there's an argument for both sides and you as a filmmaker should know. But it's like, I think everyone's watched a couple of movies where you're like, damn, this sex scene was, hell along

and unnecessary. Like, not even from like a creative like I'm against the vision. It's just like, I get it. It's been two minutes. Yeah. I get it. Plus Squid game season three.

Yeah. Yeah, you're just like, I was like, we didn't need to see that. It's just a lot of moments. And we've all, we've all watched a show like that. We all like,

did this be here? What did this add? Probably nothing. Yeah, but then I think there's also, again, then another discussion on top of that of like, have we become uncomfortable with sex? Why have we, when I didn't seem to be a problem 30, 40 years ago,

it feels like it's been a very new thing that's been pushed on us. People aren't having it anymore. That's true. But we have been pushed into more pure technical ways. But you can show a fucking goon anytime you like, though. Yeah, but I mean, you go to like the 70s, my God, what the fuck were they on back then? They were showing everything.

But then I'm saying, what were they on? But maybe I've, why have I regressed? Why have I didn't see, you know? But this, this is society as a whole. I mean, we've been pushed. We've been pushed back. Like that, has been stripped from schools. All of this has been pushed back.

And I think to have this discussion, all these layers are to be talked about. And that is why this argument always fucking sucks to have because you can't just look at this from the lens of, would it succeed today? Because I think, unfortunately, we have changed so dramatically in at least the English world, how we view sex and all this stuff in the past 10 years

because of all the number of reasons. So to conclude, kill the kill, age well. Did we just have a sir, this is Wendy's moment? I know this is a show in a Wendy's moment, but you can't look at this topic without looking at all of this. I was literally just like, uh, uh, so.

No, legitimately, did it really, did Killer Kill Age well? Um, I don't know, you know, because again, I haven't watched it. How can you say all that? I'm not have an answer. Because where was the same you watched it? Huh? I, uh, probably back. in 2018.

I think it's probably aged better than I think like my memory serves because I can only remember a few scenes. I really don't remember much, but I think it's probably aged pretty well. I think it's age fantastically. Like, I mean, look, it's a trigger anime and any trigger anime, at least visually. Yeah. And like the animation

sounds always. Hype doesn't, like... Hype doesn't age. Hype doesn't age. And this was one of the most hype shows, you know, I've ever seen. Music still bangs. Animation is still great because it's trigger. That just doesn't age.

And yeah, it's just a great show. And great action, great show. Peak trigger. Hmm, mm-hmm. What should you do next? Please don't give me something else where I can do a massive rant on. I don't want to have a rant like that. I don't like having rants like that.

Halo. Oh, there you go. Right up your alley. Halo. The Bible, huh? The Ark, the Covenant? Hmm. Has the Bible Age

The New Testament Let me tell you about that How woke they went in the second half They really pulled their punches In the new testament No I mean, Halo's fucking sick Okay, looking at it from like

As much of an objective standpoint as it can Because I know you're a big Halo guy Do you think it's aged well? Which franchise or game? Let's go Combat Evolve, first game. Oof. Common Evolve is the obviously,

I mean it's the first one is the most jack out of all of them but it's still pretty fucking good. I mean, it kind of, I think,

I don't know if another game has done it before, but it kind of set the like movie as a game formula. I guess a game

as a movie. Like, I still think to this day that last level with the war talk is still fucking epic. Like, you know,

I've never played the solo campaign, by the, dude, it's so sick. I mean, you get to the last level, and it really is like a movie.

They're like, you've got to get in the fucking ward hog. I mean, obviously taken, it's taken, actually, no, I think that's unfair because Metal Gear did it as well.

I guess so. Yeah, but very much so. But it was the, like, you do it co-op with your friend, which also changed the game. Yeah, like, holy shit.

Totally. Yeah, and they completely modernized the control systems of modern FBS, I would say. I mean, this is what set the blueprint for...

This is the remake, by the way. This is not the original. Yeah. This is what set the blueprint for a lot of, modern first-person shooters of like how they play, how they controlled.

This started the idea of, you know, having a rechargeable health system as well where you shot at and then you just hide for a bit and then your health like recharges as well. Remember when FPS has went through that fucking phase instead of like health packs and stuff like that? That was all Halo. Well, there's also a couple of things to mention

when we talk about age. One thing the Halo franchise has struggled with immensely is how to make Halo feel modern. Because when you play Halo, there is this kind of like floatiness to it. I don't know if you've played it. Have you ever played Halo? Well, we've played on Patreon.

You remember? Which Halo to replay? We played all of them. We played all of them. We did Halo 1 multiplayer, remember? Oh, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Like, you jump.

It takes a while to come up. Yeah, you're like on the moon. Everything's kind of got this like really like, you don't run that fast. You know, they kept trying to change. things and modernize it. It's definitely more slower pace than the modern. It's really struggled to kind of find its audience in this kind of newer, faster pace version of games. People tend to like these newer controls of these newer games. And so like when you go back and play it, it does

feel quite clunky. You know, also the multiplayer doesn't really work anymore. You have to go to the Combat Evolved, the Massachusetts Collection to really experience the OG Halo. And I think ultimately the first one hasn't really aged incredibly well. You know, you kind of write it off and there's not many people who would take this over a Halo 3. Yeah. Yeah. Is Halo 3 considered like the ultimate Halo game? Like in terms of like fixing all the quality of life changes and just like the like the definitive Halo game? Probably Halo 3. Yeah, because the story has kind of reached its climax. It's really epic. Tons of amazing set pieces.

the multiplayer shelf life of the third game in particular was very long because they had the, and even still to this day, you see people making, I saw like people do F1 mongoose racing. Do you see in this? What? Halo 3 F1 mongoose, type in that. I mean, this is like a whole new genre

where like people do races. So this is still a thing. No, go videos. The British Mongoos. No, go back, the second one. Hela, Vastapin F1 Mongo. Wait, what the fuck? It's like Maricon. Yeah, because they made like you, there was a world maker in the game.

It was really, really good. So people have still, to this day, kept making things for it. People do races still, you know, they had those custom game modes, Griffball. So I think Halo 3 holds up pretty well. I mean, even recently with Ludwig, we did last year or two years ago, we did the God Game of Goldenland. And we included Halo 3 in there. We play the Master Collection.

And the Halo Online is still being played. So I'd say like the Halo 3 has aged very well. Halo 1, it's give a take. The online is still in rotation. But the, you know, the OG Halo 1 is a bit rough, I'd say. Right. Yeah, I mean, I would say that aside from like modernizing like FBS controls, it also, you know, that's what Halo 1 did and the Halo 2 came out.

And that was when like the advent of online gaming started. happen and Halo 2 and Counter Strike were like the games yeah that for for online play um and Halo 3 perfectly like built on that with everything that you said uh with like the kind of like customization of the online play itself uh have a lot of fun memories of like halo zombies like putting everyone at like 200 times speed oh my god that shit was so fun yeah yeah he'd be the last guy alive yeah yeah yeah that's you know so many fun memories of that and obviously Peak Red versus Blue as well. Yeah, it was also one of the first games to include theater mode.

Yeah. So you could record. Oh, really? That was how Red versus Blue, like, a lot of that was, like, done. That makes sense. It was the in-game camera where you could literally move the camera anywhere. And it was like a really head of its time. They, so many things in Halo 3 were, like, absolutely above and beyond what we'd expect

from a game today. Yeah. You know, shit that they don't do anymore. Yeah. They don't make them like the easy. Like. There's a reason why. was like the game. If you got an Xbox at any point, you'd always get Halo with it,

like Halo 3 at least. Having said that, has Halo aged well? Well, has even the franchise to this day still making games aged well? No, the new games have not. Nobody likes Halo 5. Halo 4's a bit of a weird one. It's just because they really found the story was a struggle. Yeah. They weren't able to tell a story of that Master Chief. Well, it's just, I have, I, I never thought the story of Hado was like, stood out that much. I don't know, that's just me. I thought the original trilogy was pretty good. But the fucking TV show, did you watch any of this?

I didn't watch a TV show. He, like, has sex in it. He takes his mask off and everything. It's all weird. Isn't the whole point that he never takes his mask on? Well, kind of, but... Do you ever see Master Chief's face? No, not in the games.

Yeah, right. If they're not learned from Dream? Oh. Does the song play? Poor dream. Never take it. the mask off. Never take the mask off. Two seasons ago. Damn, we got

two seasons. Jeez. But, you know, any show that's on Paramount, it's already... Red flag. Yeah, it's, uh, I don't know. I remember playing the halos, and it was like a fun story, but it was just, you know, typical action, sci-fi story.

Good for his time, good for a video game, but not something that I think back on compared to, like, Mass Effect or stuff like that. Did it come up? It came out, before Mass Effect, right? I think it did. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. It'd make a great, unfortunately, I think it'd make a great movie as opposed to a TV show. Yeah. But also, I think the TV show is in like development hell.

Yeah, Massifax was 2007. So it came out, I mean, it was on the Xbox 360, so. Oh, okay, okay. It came out after Halo 1,

but maybe about the same time as like Halo 2 and when that came out. Yeah, I thought, honestly, I think there's a reason why Halo has struggled to, keep the same amount of hype as a franchise even today. And for its time, it was revolutionary. It was revolutionized so many things that we just talked about.

But now all of those revolutionary things have been done by other games, other franchises. And I think that's a big reason why struggling to stand out as much in this modern day and age. Yeah, because I guess if Halo came out today with the modern, you know, FPS and like how that's very much changed in a lot of ways compared to Halo 1, then, yeah, I don't know. I don't think people would be into it as much because, you know, as Connor said, like, you know, it's a lot slower, it's a lot more floatier.

Yeah, it also capitalized perfectly on the land period party of gaming. That's true. Yeah. Like that was a huge, you know, every console could do land. You reckon there were any land game from back in the day that of Asia? that people would still be just as into today considering like the whole land. Land parties are kind of coming back a little bit.

People are trying to do them more. Are there? Yeah, people try to do more land parties now. That's good. Which I think is good. I mean, PC gaming is great and you can still do land PC gaming.

It's very easy. Yeah. But yeah, I think land gaming is kind of making a small comeback slowly. Okay. People are kind of realizing the charm of it. Yeah. Problem is it's just expensive

to have all that stuff in one place. And if you need older consoles, it could be kind of annoying sourcing them all. And then getting eight copies of a game. You know, you forget you had to get like eight discs. Yeah. You know, so it's a little tough, whereas, you know, PC gaming obviously is a bit easier to do.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What other land party games are there? What am I missing? I mean, obviously, Halo is the big one. StarCraft? StarCraft was a big land party game.

Dota. Dota. Do a lot of land parties, I think. Okay. Yeah. Siv. Honestly, any game pre-2010s that was really popular multiplayer, probably did land parties. Right.

I used to do a lot of like SIV 2 and StarCraft 2 land parties. How long were the Siv land party game? Fucking long. Did you finish a game? Yeah, because you can do short games, right? Right. So like even, but even then the short games were like four, five hours long. Yeah. For real.

Because also because we were children and we fucking sucked at the games. Yeah. But yeah, those were so fucking fun. Yeah. To do. Yeah, there's nothing quite like a land party. In conclusion, in conclusion, what did you, well, you picked one out now. Yeah, you picked one, just pick it out.

Yeah, well, actually it's pretty a good one's talking about. Conclusion, I would say Halo no. No, hasn't. Has not aged that well. Yeah. What? That's what you said. No, I know.

Next one, Mirai Nikki. Ooh. Ooh. The future diary. Does everyone know about this one? Does everyone watching know? I genuinely wonder how many modern anime fans know Mirro Nike. They know, you think they know?

You think they know? All the generations, this is burned into our fucking retinas. Gooning never ages, guys. Let's be real here. Being attracted to crazy people of the opposite sex, I'd never even. Was she like the most iconic yonderi of all time? In terms of iconically, yeah, I would say so.

Is there a more iconic yonder? I don't think she's the best yonder in anime. She's the most iconic. She's definitely the most iconic. Yeah, she definitely popularized it. Yeah, 100%. Because not only does she literally murder so many fucking people.

Yeah. She also fucks. Oh yeah, she does. She does fuck. Yeah. She does fuck. She gets the fucking dick she wants. Yeah.

Wait, doesn't that disprove your point that you made earlier about fucking? Dude, yeah, does you know Gus have sex sexuality points go down because she fucks? Because I think because she's fucking psychos. Yeah, but a lot of people love that shit, dude. That's the whole reason why Yandah characters got popular after this. I think like, and I, you know, obviously when I mentioned the way that, I'm not in that boat, but I definitely get the sense that a lot of guys out there, if there's like a girl that's like kind of attractive in an anime, remember they have sex

that when they're not like fucking bash it and saying, they're like, to the side you go. I'm dumb playing with you now. You reckon? I think so. I reckon it depends on the show. Yeah, I think it depends on the show. Yeah. You know, if it's a fucking idol show, for example, yeah.

So we should probably very- Look at a guy. We should like super briefly, maybe just explain the show just so that. that people who maybe don't know. Okay. So, Murat, God, it's been a while since I've watched this show. So imagine a Fortnite. There is a Battle Royale. It's Fortnite, but if they all had mobile phones as weapons.

They're all texted into the battery. They're all texting in. And then they all get summoned. Yeah. And she isn't summoned? I don't fucking remember the plot of this. I don't remember. Isn't she just obsessed with him and she's helping him?

She wasn't summoned, was she? Or was she summoned too? There's this weird sub- Can we google it at the plot? This is weird subplot I remember where, you know, is like... She's like not part of it, right? She's like a demi-god or some shit? I think, right?

Twelve individuals who are thrust into a deadly 90-day survival game by the God of Time, Deus X. Macuna. Contestants must use magical cell phones, future diaries, that predict upcoming events based on their habits to eliminate one another. But less survivor will succeed God and prevent the apocalypse. Yes. The story centers on a lone, some introvert junior high school named Yuki. Yuki spends his time documenting his surroundings

in his cell phone diary and conversing with his imaginary friend. Dasex macula, Dase is eventually revealed to be real and forces Yuki to become the future diary holder. Yuki's diary records events entirely from his perspective because it lacks self-awareness. He is an easy target for the other competitors.

The survival relies entirely on teaming up with his classmate, Uno Gassai. The second diary holder, Uno possesses the love diary, which tracks all of Yuki's movements in the future. That's right. That's, oh, she presented. No, no, no, I think I remember,

Uno was the winner of the previous games. Wasn't it? Something like that? Oh, interesting. She was the winner of the previous games who decided to, like, get resummoned as like a demigod or something. And she was just like, yeah, I'll do it again.

Or something like that. I remember there was some kind of plot. Either way, she's fucking bat shit and saying, yeah. And she's a killing machine somehow. Basically, she's head over heels for Yuki and it's just like, I will kill anybody and everybody for Yuki.

And she does. Yeah. And that made her one of the most desired anime characters of that year and subsequent years afterwards. I have this weird memory of her fighting an eyeball. Yeah, I remember that as well. Yeah, the eyeball guy. She cuts her in half with the ass. Yeah, the eyeball guys.

Yeah. But then, yeah, obviously the big moment is that she gets him and she fucks him. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. She's like, you'll never leave me. I'm going to fuck you. Man, he's just like, bet.

I think it's because he finally gives up. He finally stops fighting him. Yeah. He's like, fine. Well, I think he was also, you know, admittedly was also just like, if I say no to her, I might die. Yeah, yeah, I think he realizes that too. So he was kind of put into this like Stockholm syndrome almost.

Yeah. Like, all right, I guess. For real. I guess we can fly. Anyway, he's like, I might die, but she kind of hop, though. Yeah, she's crazy, but damn. Damn. Giat!

Yeah, this show had staying power. The show was very popular. It was incredibly popular. I feel like in the last couple of years, do I not hear about it ever, but definitely up until late 2010s, you would hear about the show all the time. Look, every era has,

every era of anime fans has that show that appeals to, like, so hard to... True crime girls. What? You know, we, in the era of 14 to 17, we have certain shows that have defined our generation of being something that seems mature.

I'm 14 and this is deep show. I'm 14 and this is like deep. This is amazing. For me, it was Elfin Leed. Elfin Leed was the pre- Also had a great Yonderay character as well. You see is technically Yonderi. Also pink hair.

Also pink hair as well. You know. This era, it was like Future Diary that took over for a while. Crazy girl, you know, got incredibly popular. I'd say the more recent one. was probably Kakiguri. You know, no pink hair, but my God,

people are just like, damn, Jabama Yumiko. They love a crazy bitch. They do love the crazy. I love a crazy bitch. What was that other anime that also had the pink head yonderi? You have to narrow it down. It's Google Pinkhead Yonderas. Happy Sugar Life.

Happy Sugar Life? You remember that one? I forgot about that one. You remember Happy Sugar Life? It's basically, like, they were like, what if we took Yuno Gassai and just made the plot a little bit more, boring. See, I would say, okay, this isn't like full on crazy, but still pretty crazy.

Yeah, she was pretty insane. No, no, wait. My next example is, uh, Dining in the Franks. Zero two, right? She's not like full on yonderay. Yeah, I was going to say, but she has that, that she has that same kind of like, yeah, like possessiveness of like a yonderay. I can see that. I can see that. I'd pink head anime girls ruining teenage boys. Guys like, guys like a girl. obsessing over them and women, I don't know. They like it too. I don't know why. I can speak from, I guess, experience is that woman, and I say woman, I don't think. Singular.

I think my woman has a tendency towards crazy men who are also possessive over them and maybe murder for them. Well, everyone likes someone who obsesses it. Yeah. It's a flattering feeling to have someone. And the idea of someone obsessing over you so much is an. attractive feeling. Yeah. Yes. Until it happens in real life. Until it actually happens.

Until it happens in real life. And then we just call them stalkers. And they are willing to keep for you. It's a lot scarier than it's made out to be. Yes. Yes. I need a coffee thinking about this. Has it aged well, though, is the question. I'm going to order our coffees. Because, you know, I'm glad you brought up the whole I'm 14 and this is deep genre because Miraniki was definitely that where when I first watched it, when it was I was like, oh my God, this show is so dark. And they finally brought back like a Yundari character and all that. And you know, it was dark and it was brooding and it was edgy. But looking back on it retrospectively, it has a lot of plot holes. A lot. Mate, it's fucking Swiss cheese.

Yeah. The second half is just like nothing but plot holes. And they just try and cover it up in any way they possibly can. Let's be real here, Joey. This didn't get, this didn't get this didn't become a cultural phenomenon for its plots. Oh, no, no. People try to make it. I think it's like, you know, you have to remember, a lot of people who watch this anime, and people who watch anime at this time,

this were during formative years. Yeah. Where the only media, most of us were ever exposed to, was either like Western cartoons or like some other shows. Like, there was, we'd never even seen anything close to this in our life. Yeah. Like this was so far out of what was normal, that it was so fucking cool and novel.

Yeah. So to a lot of people, this is, this show is like the first time they ever see these types of, like, tropes or characters and media. Because they shouldn't have been watching it. Yeah. They've got it on YouTube or Kiss anime at the time. Well, that's how I felt watching Elfin Lead for the first time. Yeah.

Same. You know, I was like, holy shit, I've never seen anime like this. And then, you know, when I look back on it now, I'm just like, that hasn't aged well. I think it's just like the level of hyperviolence that is really hard to do in live action stuff. It's the only way you'd ever come across it normally. Yeah. You know, you get to see this, like, people's arms being fucking cut off like that.

I mean, Elfinley literally opens with a fucking seven arm on the ground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's how you knew it was like, oh shit, it's one. Do you remember that whole thing of, like, anime isn't just for kids. No, I remember that, yeah.

Show them the first episode of Elph-en-Lvantly. Like, this shit would blow your mind because you were exposed to it. And obviously, you'd have some strong feelings towards it because you'd have an immense sense of nostalgia you would give to the show. I mean, I feel the shout it towards the show in a sense.

Yeah. It's obviously Alvin-old. It's funny because these shows, these are the shows where you're like, this is what you send your bros where to prove that anime isn't for kids. And now looking back, I'm like, actually, this is definitely for kids, or at least teenagers. Yeah, definitely. This is what kids think is mature.

Yeah, adults don't look at this and being like, yeah, it's very mature show. Yeah, because another one in that category was fucking Archimega Kill. Oh, yes. That was another show where like every 14, 15 year old was like, yeah, I'm a mature. Yo, everyone dies in the show. What the fuck?

Whoa! And then you watch it, you know, 10 years later and you're like, this show is ass. Yeah, I love the show. Dead Man Wonderland. Dead Man Wonderland was another one. Yeah. I love Dead Man Wonderland, but yeah, it's, it's corny as far.

It is corny. It is corny. Do you think, okay, so the story was never good. The story was at hot, hot holes. It was interesting enough. The concept was interesting enough that I think that was what drew people into it and that's what got me interested.

But that was, as we discussed about the story, it had a lot of problems with it. Do you think, you know Gassai as an icon, as age well? If she came out today. As a yonderite icon? As her as a character, her design. Let's look at the Yuno Gassai design.

I think she probably would be popular today. I think so as well. I think she's, it's the ripe time for a Yuno Gassai. I mean, if there's one thing I can give Mirayniiki is that it has very good character designs. and like just very, just kind of unique character designs in that sense as well.

Like you know a, you know a Mirai Niki character when you see it. They would probably just make her look like an Oshino-Co character today. That's all they would change. And then it would be a hit. It's true, you know I'm right. They design a like fucking Ocean Ochoco character.

Boom, sales. That is true. You put a banger opening done by Yau-Sobi. I know you say it. Yeah, if Miraniki came out today, one million percent, it would have a Yawosobi. Or like a creepy nut. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it would be number one, bro. A hundred percent. You can already see the formula, bro. Someone's making it. Do you think she's like too anime for the modern audience? I don't know how to describe this. No, no, I know what you mean? She's got that 2000s look too much.

You know how she always goes around going, yuki? Yeah. Would that be cringe nowadays or would people like eat that up? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. It was cringe back then for me. Joe, let's not pretend that people didn't hear that.

And I was like, Oh, no, no, of course. People back then heard that and be like, God, I wish that was me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, right? Yeah. I don't know, maybe, maybe not. Because looking at these screenshots, I remember, like, I only remember the crazy moments,

but I also forgot about outside of the crazy moment, she just completely flipped and was just this, like, cute, innocent anime girl, and I think that was her appeal. I think what helps her case is the fact that, even though we've had very memorable Yandari characters, like Yunugasai, you know, like Lucy from Elphin Leed, on the grand scale of things, when you compare it to every other archetype

of like the Daria archetypes, you can't really think of a lot of Yandere's. You know, I feel like Yandahis aren't like Sunderes or like Ku Dariis where it's like every other anime has a character that somewhat or fully fits into that archetype, right? Like you can name a fucking million Sundaris or a million kudaris, but like how many Yandaries can you think of? Well, if, you know, I can't, if I, if you, if you asked me to name 10 yonderias, I don't think I could.

It's hard because they're so extreme as characters. Yeah. Yeah. But you can't, you can't have that many of them. Yeah, right. But they, every time there is like a yonder as character, it always, it always pops off. Yeah. Always pops off. People love crazy people, man. Yeah. People, people are, they know it's a bad idea, but every time there is a crazy anime character, it's especially like male or female, to be fair. Yeah. It's true. This is not, this is not by gender. This is both people. Yeah. Regardless of the gender. Yeah, everyone finds a crazy person attractive in fiction, I guess. Totally. And hopefully not in real life as well.

I know a few people that have made a lot of bad decisions in their personal lives before, you know? I don't know. I think crazy will always age well. And I think, yeah, I think, you know, Gasai is a character. I think we are primed for a new Yonderay. I think you know Gassai as a character has aged well, but everything else about Miraniki has not age well. Is that a fair assumption? Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy that you think, you know, that we came to the conclusion that you know gaslight age well because I fucking despise it.

Yeah. My favorite character was the iPatch girl. Yeah. Whatever her name was. But show a 14 year old, you know Gassai today and I still think they would have the same reaction. They'll be like my wife. Yeah. All right, let's see. All right, how's it age well? The Matrix. That's a great fucking question. I haven't watched it.

Yeah, when was the last time you watched any Matrix movie? Like 15 years ago. Yeah, when did the fourth movie come out? That was... Well, the recent one was a huge flaw. Yeah, I mean, it was shit. I watched that in the fucking cinemas, dude. It was ass.

That's crazy because you don't watch anything in the cinemas. That's not true. I watched the Mario movie recently. Yeah, Joey coming in the studio to tell you about what fucking stinker he watched in the movie, bro. Did you watch Dune? Yeah. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, okay.

I watched that twice in the cinemas, bro. I would chill, right. Come on, bro. Come on, bro. I know, ball, don't worry. I just want you to have watched one good movies. I've watched lots of good movies in the cinema. Don't worry.

Okay, okay. Matrix. Yes. I think it has. I think... I mean, I think the themes of Matrix have aged well. Yeah. Yeah.

I think is the crucial part when we discuss a film. I think the reason why it has... has aged well is because it wasn't accurate to what actually happened in reality. Because I think if it was, you know what I mean? Yet. Yet. But I think like in terms of, in terms of the whole idea of Matrix, and I'm just talking about the first movie right now, in terms of the whole idea of Matrix and the kind of vibe that it gave off, like, you know, there are so, this, because I feel like ever since Matrix came out, not only in like the movie world, but even in like anime and games and stuff like that, there's been so much media that has tried to replicate

the vibe of Matrix. Yeah. Right. To differing successes, right? Some have done it better. Some have definitely not done it as good. And I think that in and of itself has really just like shown people just how not only ahead of its time Matrix movies were, but also just how unique it was in its own identity.

And I don't, and I'm thinking about it now. Like, has there been a movie since or anything since The Matrix that gives off the same vibe as The Matrix and yet does it in a better way? Which vibe are you talking about? The whole vibe of just like, you know, um, you know, because like the first Matrix movie was like, for example, just the way it was edited, for instance, is like green as fuck. You know what I mean? Yeah, we got, uh, we got Mexico in Breaking Bad. Yeah, Mexico Filter. Okay, why I've seen Breaking Bad.

So I don't know. Whenever the scene is in Mexico, she's yellow. Oh, really? Like a sepia tone? Yeah, yeah, she's yellow. Right, right, okay, okay. And I don't know why they do that, but you do know it's in Mexico. It works, I guess.

You know the Breaking Bad Mexican filter? It's kind of become iconic though, because you have, whenever there's like an orange, an orange moment in a video game, whatever you'd be like, Breaking Bad filter. Mexico. That's Mexico. It's the Mexico filter. That's funny.

Um, but... Yeah, I don't know. What do you think? I think that, for its time, the reason why it was revolutionary was a lot to do with, like, the technology and filming technology. The bullet time. Yeah, the bullet time was a big talking point as well. That was what got people to, you know, try to watch it, because it was visually pushing the boundary. Visually, it doesn't push the boundary anymore.

Obviously, uh, VFX have gotten a lot better. But I also think that at its core, it's still a really good... fucking story. Would you say, would you categorize Matrix as campy in any way? Because, you know, campiness can be both a positive

or a negative, depending on the context, right? Maybe in the first film, but I think the second and third film really nail the, like, vibe of what they're going for,

a bit more. It was the first one. I mean, it looks a little campy today because some of the effects don't look good. Yeah. I'm missing some of the scenes

recently and I was like, hmm. But, you know, I mean, again, you have to take things with a grain and salt. Yeah, I still think the story is really good.

The action choreography, which in the first one, is still really good. Oh, that fucking Trinity fight scene is still fucking awesome. The one where Neo fights Morpheus in the... Yeah. ...doja as well. Yeah. Just conceptually, I still think it's really cool. Yeah.

This is what Sword Arts Online should have been. It's a... Poor sort of online. Can't get a break. You know, you get a... Sort of Unlein catching strange, dude. What is this, 2012? Yeah, it's a sci-fi, and it's very rare to have, like, a sci-fi where it doesn't feel like it's age-day, even though technology has progressed. I think that's a very, very hard thing to do.

And honestly, some aspects, it's even more relevant today than it is, you know, back when it came out. I think it was ahead of its time. That's like Metal Gear Solid, too. Yeah. Like, it's somehow got a lot of things right. And I think maybe the uncomfortableness of where technology is going is reflected really well in their jokes. Yeah. Yeah.

God, I want to rewatch The Matrix. Yeah, I want to rewatch it. I guess, yes, we agree? Yeah, I think it's aged. Yeah, I think it's tremendously well, yeah. Yeah. Have we aged well? Has trash taste aged well in six years?

Let us know down below. How's your hairline? Fuck. I'm on every kind of medication. It's looking all right so far. Yeah, you're looking fine. The men are holding it together. Yeah.

I've got some gray hairs here and there, you know? I kind of want gray hairs. I'm starting to get a little bit of like the crow's feet here. I want gray hairs. I want to get... My cousin pointed it out and I was just like, I fucking hate you.

You just say that because now I can't unsee it. But it's all right. Hey, we all age. But hey, you know what has an age? The beauty of all of our patrons right here. Sexy motherfuckers. Sexy motherfuckers supporting the show. We appreciate you.

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