Trash Taste Podcast - Sitting down with a REAL Anime Composer ft Kevin Penkin | Trash Taste #104

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

🪒Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code TRASHTASTE at https://manscaped.com/trashtaste Follow Trash Taste on Insta: @TrashTastePod To listen to the podcast on YouTube: bit.ly/TrashTasteYouTube Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: bit.ly/TrashTastePodcast If you like the show, telling a friend about it would be amazing! You can text, email, Tweet, or send this link to a friend: bit.ly/TrashTastePodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Good evening. It's me, The Monk. Have you ever listened to Trash Tate and Thoughts? That doesn't seem too hard. I can do that. Well, you're in luck, because today I want to talk about Anchor, the easiest way to make podcasts, and it's completely free. Anchor will distribute your podcasts for you, so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and many, many more. I mean, it's literally what we're using now. They have creation tools that allow you to record and edit a podcast for your phone or computer. And you can add any songs from Spotify directly to your episodes.

The possibilities are literally endless. endless. You can make anything, music analysis, talk shows, or even an anime podcast that talks about anime. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place. So, if you want to give podcasting a go, download the free anchor app or go to anchor.fm to get started. Anyway, back to the episode. Lads, lads, lads, welcome back to another episode of the Trash Taste Podcast. I'm lad number one, and I'm with lad number two and three, as always. And I've got a lad sitting next to me. Who are you? just a lad right I'm just some fucking guy

just a man we just not an Australian guy yeah yeah I was like I thought I was the only one no no today not today so uh after many many months many many moons

we finally have the one and only Mr Kevin Pinkin on the show How's it? Hell yeah aside from being and just an Aussie lad What else are you known for Yeah

Not much mate No okay So I guess like on a good day I write music for anime main games. On a good day. On a bad day, I'm just some fucking guy on a couch, drinking the beer and watching YouTube. But, hey, actually, yes, it's not a bad day, actually.

On a professional day, I am writing music for anime and video games, as I said, some of those being made in abyss, and Tower of God, and Rise of the Shield Hero, and also did Star Wars Visions, one of the episodes of Star Wars Visions, which is not the worst thing to happen to. I guess me? I don't know. Are you being modest? Composers for Star Wars. Not the worst thing to happen. Not the worst. Not the worst.

I'll be like on my tombstone. Not the worst. I think the thing that is like always like, I've never asked you this. I'm just like, how the hell did this happen? Yeah. Yeah. Because it seems like Japanese anime would want to get Japanese composers. So like how did this all come around?

And I guess they have for the longest time, right? Yeah. What's all like background with? no sure i mean you got up here well it's i mean it's a very super random like kind of series of events that like i don't really understand

how it happened happy it did but i have no idea actually how it happened but i i guess like the the chronological events is that i actually started working uh probably yeah in the end of my teens i started working with the um final fantasy composer who remember uh nobuo um noboa matzo wow yeah which is awesome oh wait how how did that happen okay sorry let's go back like no one just like

works with Nobuoyama'i Matsu. Let's go back to conception. Yeah. Your local neighborhood friend, Nobuoimatsu, you know? I just saw a guy on the bar once, and I just ended up proposing for me. I thought you said,

conception, and I was like, uh, well. So yeah, I had always, I wanted to do like video game music. I remember, because I, my first game console was GameCube, and I played this game.

called Metro Prime, which is still my favorite game. Amazing game. Yeah, it is one of my favorites. And when I played the game, I was like, I want to do that. And so that's basically what happened. I was like, oh, I want to do that one. And so kind of just like started, you know, pretending to write video game music. And Australia also had a bunch of video game concerts that happened, including the fun of fantasy concerts.

Yeah. But in a slightly different, did you just burp? No. I thought I had this click thing. I was like, yeah. Okay, well,

shut the fuck up. Did you interrupt my story? No, no. No. Fucking dead. I fucked up a little bit. I fucked up like my,

my, yeah. So yeah, Australia had all these kind of concerts going on. I met a conductor called Arnie Roth who did some

concerts called play. And so I went over from Perth, Western Australia, from where I'm from, went over to Sydney to do this, to kind of view this,

this concert and he invited me to come say hello to him and also one of the composers there who sees silent hill composer kura yarmoukas i met him right that was really cool and he was like super kind of he was very very generous for his time for like some eager you know piece of shit 15 year old yeah so i really appreciate that even to this day but um because i met annie when i saw that um um matzah sam was going to come to a concert in seattle in other places um i was like hey so we might come over like me and my dad and like might come over and come say hi. Right.

And they were like, oh, well, thank you for coming such a long way from Perth, which is like 36 hours in a plane. Don't recommend that, by the way. Yeah. But yeah, it would send like 36 hours going to Seattle, met Ani and then he was like, oh, just come to the dress rehearsal and come say hi as well to Pui Matsu and stuff. Wow.

So you're just going to these concerts? We went to that one, yeah. Right. You could just say hi. Well, because we met at that previous one in Sydney. Oh, okay, okay. Come over and stuff. Right.

Yeah, it was very, very lucky. Yeah, you make it. it sound very easy. Like, like, you met him initially and you just bumped into him initially?

No, no. So like we had been invited to come say hi at this concert in Sydney, which then led to this concert in Seattle where we must sound was where we met for the first time.

Right. And Australia, all the school, sort of all the school years are flipped because it's summer. Right. Okay. So.

Because it's Australia. Yeah. Everything's right down. Of course you've got to flip it. Like, yeah. Our summer holiday is December. Yeah.

Yeah. And so that's when we have like the classic school, like two, three months kind of breaks. Right, right, right. It's basically like all of December and January is just off. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Yeah. But that was obviously like New Year's and stuff and Christmas in Japan.

So yeah, for summer holiday, we would go to winter in Japan. Right. And end up, they're very graciously say, hello. Yeah, you come say hi and stuff. Yeah. Eventually that just led to a couple of, yeah, it's like small. It's not the fun fantasy game. I should be very clear about that.

Right. but yeah I was yeah but you made some pretty insane connections from that I bet I mean it's still pretty crazy to talk about

but yeah you make it sound so easy like you know I just like had them on the speed dial yeah yeah I just went to a concert and then just went to another concert

and then just you know things happen and then yeah here I am honestly at the end of the day I'm just I'm just happy it happened I mean I know I've been using

that word a little bit to it's like yeah I'm just super just things have just yeah paned out Not so shit. Right.

I'm trying to piece the whole thing in my head together. Yeah, me too. How it all comes together. So you met him again in another concert. How did that translate into then working for them? Surely that's a massively. Well, because of these Japanese trips that I would do over Australian summer, Japanese winter,

what happened is we were able to just kind of keep a connection. And then eventually, I kept on submitting some CDs and stuff like that. Right. Which in this case, it worked out. but you know it's like I you never think about it that way you just having the best to just you know just want to be involved in some way yeah yeah yeah feels nice so you just like kept submitting you're working like I'm not like okay okay I mean more like complication they actually you know listen to it yeah yeah yeah yeah I would not hold it against them to not do it but yeah

yeah yeah graciously kind of did and yeah eventually um I'm happy to say that I was able to be useful to them so so so you were like making music from like as early as like how old like oh shit Um, like, like, I, I assume very, very young, right? Like, were you like classically trained and stuff? Yeah. So I played flute. I came from flute. So see, see you're playing flute with just such a funny history.

I can do the, um, I can do the Anchorman cell. Oh, really? Yeah, I can do it. I'm so, like, like, why didn't you bring your flute? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I left it in, I left it in Melbourne. No, um, I actually, like, picked it up a little bit, uh, last year, like, during the

pandemic so I was like I'm fucking bored now so yeah yeah try it again and ended up using it a bit on the new shield here and stuff so I did some jazz flute oh wow stuck that in you snuck that in hell yeah cheeky jazz flute

so you started with flute from like really on and then you kind of just went on for that yeah flute playing play Metro Prime wanted to write music right played on the I'm not sure if you know finale yeah yeah did finale for a little while and like didn't understand what like working with actual

like you know DAWs and stuff which are digital Digital audio works stations. Yeah, so Logic Pro and stuff like that. And Logic Pro is eventually what I moved to. I'm still used it today. It's scary. Yeah.

It's very overwhelming when you look at it. Yeah. I was like, what the fuck? I know nothing about audio. I'm that guy today. I'm like the Connor of this episode. I'm like, yeah, that's letters that you were saying. For once.

For once, yeah. Well, I hate to say it, but Connor was kind of right with the whole beeps and boosting a little bit. Oh, we're getting into that already? What? What? I hate to say, but I like the noise is the most accurate way to describe how I feel about music as well. You're a literal musician.

You do this for a living. Oh, my. My life has been alive. Dude, like, I remember when Connor first brought up the whole like beeps and boob shit. I was like, don't worry. Eventually, when we get Kevin, he'll be on my side. Well, I won't lie. I, like, opened a bottle of gin and just started drinking after that phrase.

I was just like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? At the same time, I was like, to be honest, like, yeah, maybe we'll go into like a little bit more detail about why the noise is nice, but the noise. The noise is nice. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's it. It's just like I like the things my ear is feeling, you know. I like hearing the noise. It's just a soothing. But we should explore why.

We should explore why. What? Why? Why? Why, why, why, why, why? Why. That's, that's a level that he's never crossed before. I don't know.

I feel like it's the most primitive way of experiencing music, like the way that it was just meant. Is there any other way to experience music? Well, because everyone wants to add this sort of kind of like deep art meaning, and I'm like, noise is nice. You know, like, it's just kind of like, I don't listen to a piece of music and feel any emotion. I just take it in.

I'm like, this. No, I mean, we all do, but we also, it's that plus alpha for us, you know? Like, you know, it's not just the alpha, right? Yeah, best maybe describe it's like, Okay, so the noise is nice, but the noise is nice because, like, certain things that are working together make said nice noise. Yeah. This is why I brought you on today to explain this concept. It's the most monkey way possible.

Not stupid way like I would explain it. Yeah. Well, I mean, because, like, it's just made up of, like, random kind of, what's the word, I guess, sort of category. So it's like, you've got melody, you got harmony, you get rhythm and stuff like that. Your texture. Texture is really, really important. So texture is like, it might be. What is texture?

Texture is the sound quality, the sound quality of a sound. That's like, you sound like an alien right now. I was like, what does this texture you humans speak of? I don't normally talk to musicians. And normally when I hear someone talk about texture, it's with like food or like with things that you feel with your hands. Same concept. Yeah, same concept. It's like, okay, fuck, okay.

Okay, you know the, I think it's Billy Jones. Gene, you know that yeah, yeah, the drums, yeah. The drum sound is super distinctive. Yes.

Because it's tech, because anyone can play that beat and anyone can play that, like a drum like that. Right. Why does it sound? Why do you know that it's that fucking song straight away? Because the sound of the drum,

the textual quality of the specific and unique. So that's the whole idea of text. Like, texture, I think it's criminally, but not criminally, and I can't pronounce that fucking word right now. Primatively.

Yeah, primitively, underrated. Um, Texture is like, I guess I would call it like kind of the secret ingredient. Even though it's not that secret. It's it's the spice that you add to make it all come together. Right, right, right. There's many spices.

I see like we've inadvertently like separated the musicians on one side. Like the apes on the other side. It's got like a glass panel. Don't fucking come near it. Yeah. So I feel like we talk about anime. Yeah. I get it.

I get it. Okay, so you started, you know, doing, you know, writing music from a young age. You met Nobuo Oumatsu. So, like, how did you then go from like that to, oh, now I'm writing music for Maine to beers? That's, yeah. Because, like, I feel, again, that's like not like one step process. Yeah. There were a couple of steps.

So, so, so, so, okay, number one, how did you learn Japanese? Because I assume you would need to learn Japanese to work in the other. I mean, obviously, I'm not, yeah, I'm not this beautiful boy. when it comes to that, but, you know, I feel like I do fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like I do well. And so, yeah, I learn Japanese. In Australia, there's this thing called TAFE, which is sort of a community college kind of thing.

Yeah, it's like sort of a, yeah, non-university. You could treat it as like a pre-college almost at sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can do like certificate level stuff. Okay, okay, bachelor certificate. Right. Sort of underneath that. Yeah.

So I did that because I went to school at the West Australian Academy of, warming arts, Wopper, as it's called? Yeah. Wop. So I went to Wopper for three years doing composition there. Yeah. That was in Perth.

But then at nighttime, I was I remember, I'm trying to imagine me doing this now, like going to school during the day and like go to school during the night. And I did not have that energy. I did not have that energy at all anymore. Congrats on being 30, by the way. Welcome to the club, Kevin. Welcome to the club.

I am a lit tired. I can't even use a jet lag excuse anymore. Oh, well. No, so I went to this TAFE school on like a Thursday and a, wow, let's try that again, Tuesday and the Thursday. Yeah, Tuesday and Thursday. And on the middle of day, the Wednesday, I would go with all the classmates that I, um, that, like I was learning with. And we go to this seedy fucking bar in Northbridge, which is like kind of like the, I don't even how to describe it. It's the, uh, seeded pot of post.

It is the club crazy, like, CD, you know, loose-fie sort of part of Perth. Right, right, right. Yeah. I've heard a lot of things about Perth from every Australian I've met. And one pattern that I've seen from every Australian I've met from Perth is that they do not know, they no longer live in Perth anymore. Yeah, I know four people, including you, who are born and raised in Perth, who are no longer in Perth. So, like, I do, I would say that if you've grown up there, there is, like, a certain, like, I want to call... Shout out to our phantom.

Look, there is a certain, like, jovial sort of jockey aspect to, like, saying, oh, yeah, I'm from per fucking what? Yeah. But, like, once you leave, I think there is, like, a little bit of homesick. It's like, I haven't been... Oh, of course, of course, yeah. I fucking miss it. Right, right, right, right. I might be there for two, two and a half weeks and be like, yeah, I'm cool.

Yeah, you've had you felt. Bye, Felicia. But until then, I'm pretty homesick. But, like, yeah. So we went to this bar in Northbridge, because Perth is super, super popular with working holiday Japanese people. Oh, really?

Super popular. Oh, I did not know that. Yeah, Japanese people love coming to Perth. And that's great. And it is, it is what it's worth, even though I just, like, kind of described, like, some of a person like, some fuck in. I'm trying to wrap my head around what the reason that might be.

Joey, like, I've never seen that facial. special in Joe where he tried to understand either his Japanese side or his Australian side and he's just like, there is something that's gone wrong on my phone. Both my Australian and Japanese side were like, that sounds like a lie. As far as I can remember, it's not

but yeah. I wonder why though. I honestly sun. Oh, yeah. Sun and beaches. Right. Yeah. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. Yeah. I swear don't come to the UK, huh? No. We hear about judging people in London.

that often. No. Not really. Of course, like, it's also very far away, but I guess so is Australia now that I think about it. Yeah, Perth's pretty fucking far away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true. There is a connection between, there is a connection between Australian and Japan. There's quite a lot of sister cities and stuff.

Right, right, right, right. And obviously, it's like sort of the Australasia region. So, sorry, that's triggering for y'all. Yeah. But, no, the Australasia region is obviously, yeah, I think there's a lot of, I mean, pre-COVID, of course, there was a lot of, like, kind of, kind of, Caval treaties and stuff like that. Yeah.

Working holiday visas were rampant. Yeah. Like a better word. Definitely. But we would go to this bar and all the working holiday people because it was a shitty bar, but on a Wednesday night it would be international night. You got $10 jugs and which is like, I think, like, 7 pound like 8.5 American dollars.

And yeah, just get fucking wasted with awesome like working holiday Japanese people and because obviously when you're a bit toasted, you're at your language confidence. Yeah, right. Of course. somehow it just raises up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you would almost have like the two formal training days on each side. And then you'd have like the. The real training day.

The toasted night. Yeah. And your brain would just like sponge it up. That was that's how it started. And then actually like since since COVID we've been doing a lot more like kind of business meetings and stuff on Zoom and stuff. And so like my KGO has like gone way through the roof now because it's like how I almost like exclusively speak like. like sort of with that almost like I almost treat it as like a buffer almost feels like a buffer if like if you're not right if you're not like not sure

how to speak to someone using the kego almost feels like I'm just like being safe yeah right right yeah you don't know where your like relationship is yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly it's like I'm just gonna avoid any like you know for par by being overly polite right I did notice that actually because like a couple it was it a couple months ago that we did the main abyss event yeah like because so I co-hosted like a Made an Abyss event for Made Abyss too. And obviously, Kevin wasn't there like in person, but he was on like a Zoom call because there was like a segment where we were talking about the music for the show. And, you know, obviously because it's a Japanese event, it's live stream to a Japanese audience.

Yeah. Kevin had to speak Japanese for the entire part. Yeah. And, you know, I hadn't heard Kevin speak Japanese in a while. So I was like, oh, you know, hopefully, you know, he'll get through it. And I was like, damn, he's K going the fuck up. I was like, he's like way too polite. in this entire thing.

He's like talking to the fucking prime minister levels. I'm like, I'm like, he's just talking about like the music. It's like, the problem is because I've, I've almost like lost the middle ground now. So it's like,

way too casual or it's way too formal. Right, right. And I was like, just in, because it's like something, something, something. Instead of saying like yes or something,

I'll be just like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's just like you in a nutshell, right? Because like, you, one thing you'll realize meeting Kevin is like, he's like, most humble and nice person like you've ever met, you know.

But then that that is until like he starts getting like a few pints in him. And like I can always like, you can always track how drunk Kevin is by how much more Australian he is. So at the beginning of the night, you're like, you might not even know that he's Australian or something like, because he's like way too polite. Kevin is either extremely professional or extremely unprofessional. There's no, there's no middle. That doesn't sound.

I don't know what you're talking about. Fuck, fuck. Give me a lighter. Yeah. Oh, that's flip. Because I, like, yeah, because you were saying, like, I definitely experienced that this weekend, right? Because, you know, obviously, like, during the convention, you know, we'd go out and have a couple of drinks and all that kind of stuff, right?

And it's like, you know, that, that Friday night where we're out, you know, drinking and we got that. that Burger King at like 2 in the morning. And bringing that up. You want that to be committed to YouTube? Yeah. Because like, you know, God was saying like, you know Kevin is drunk because he just gets like exponentially Australian, right? And I think that Burger King night was the most Aussie I've ever heard Kevin.

I was so bitter about that burger. It fucking sucked. It was so shit. That's Burger King. Yeah, I know. But like there was like a part, like first it was fucking 2.30 in the morning. I was like, there's only so many old fashions. I know, I'm not expecting you to make great decisions here.

I'm ashamed. So to explain, it's like, it's like 2.30 in the morning. Obviously, everyone's like drunk and, you know, everyone's starting to get the little bit hungry, right? Yeah. So there's a Burger King there. Kevin comes out with like a bag full of what he thinks is like just a light snack, right? What he pulls out of the bag is like the fattest double whopper that I've ever seen in my life. And he pulls it out of the bag

And he's like In the most Australian way He's like What the fuck is this? And he's like Oh fuck it I've already bought it It's whatever

So just like This just like goes back To like the fucking Isakaya thing Where I ordered too much Can I just fucking hit the button? Just hit the button Oh my God

What about if you think You're like You're like This is an amazing idea I can handle all that So do explain that That's so much ambition Last time we went out

to Japan. We went to Anizakaya and then Kevin was like pretty hungry. You know, we, we started drink before but Kevin was like, we, we were hungry, but we also like, just like a little bit tipsy. And Kevin thinks, you know what's the good idea? If I order one of everything on the menu. It's like a four page menu. It's no, it was four pages of menu for just the chicken.

And it was like four page of menu for like the pork. It was like an onslaught. It did not. stop. Yeah. I've never had to, like, it's a,

it's a fucking all you can eat. Like, you can just do it. But at the same time, it was like, yeah, we had,

like, I had to talk to the fucking staff member and be like, can you stop? Can you stop? Any food that you have not physically cooked yet? Stop it. Because it was like,

there was like 15 different livers. And I'm like, how do you even find this many livers? I'm just, I'm done. You're gonna assault this shit. So like, we learn that day.

If we, if we go to an Izzykaya and there's a tablet there, we can, and never, never give it to Kevin. He's just like, oh, what does everyone want? And everyone's just like, oh, just whatever. And Kevin takes out too literally as everything.

But, like, because, you know, I think it's just because, like, you know, I haven't been back home to Australia than a while, right? And, like, you know, I have a couple of mates in Australia who are, like, very, very awkward. But, like, you know, Kevin is, like, next level Australian, especially when he's drunk. So he was like... A little bit. Yeah, so, like, you know, going back, it's like, he, unraps the double offer. You're right?

Because he's like, he's already has it in his hand. He takes, like, three bites out of it. And he just goes, this is shit. This is so shit. I think you remember that. What was shit about? Do you remember? It was so dry.

It was like so dry. It was so dry. It was so dry and it was so heavy. Yeah, it was like, oh, I fucked up, okay? I fucked because like, in Australia, we don't have Burger King. We have Hungry Jacks. Right. Yeah.

So it's like, you know, if Burger King was like better. It's good. It's fucking, yeah. Like Hungry Jacks is like, I would argue way, way better than Burger. but like, but not by much. Not by much to be fair. Sorry. No, no, no.

I don't know if I'm crazy, but I swear Burger King, don't they like drench it in like sauce? I wish. So fucking dry. Right. Like the burger is like the most like, skeleton-esque burger ever. Yeah.

Extremely enemic. Yeah. I had the- Snap the patty in half. Yeah. I had the chicken like, uh, like there was like a long chicken burger type of thing.

And, uh, and it was like, it was like freeze dried. It was so, it was so fucking dry. I was like, oh,

oh, oh. really fried fried chicken. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bad tactical era that we'll hopefully not make it.

But it's just so hilarious just Kevin raging at a double warb at 2.30 in the morning. I remember, I've got a good friend back home. I remember, because I took him to this like really,

like, there's this Ankara bakery thing on that it's called Bofer Street and in Mount Lorley. What? Yeah, there's a place, there's an Ankara bakery on Bofer Street

in Mount Loughly, in 30. What I say? It's a Bofer street. Bofa. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm a child. All of our eyes just like leaning you're like both of them I'm gonna blame the yeah that's the dry

London air yeah not very successful anyway both foot street in Mount Orley in Perth and like

they do like really good cabs that fucking amazing cabs right but my friend was not a fan

of them I remember because he took he said the same thing and he tried to throw it out and he

and it exploded all over his car it's like this egg just fucking went all over his body shit I was just trying to throw it

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah But there's like Yeah There's food rage There's a lot of

Roach So back to your music Oh yeah Maybe What you're You know This is the process Yeah

You get inspired By dry burgers Have a fucking shit Burger And go Go write some Fucking Angry music

Oh my god This My fucking sounds Bhm Oh my God God. Yeah. Why don't you call like a track and shield hill

just like dry chicken salmon? I have started going like more like psycho with the naming convention too recently. I'm waiting for double whopper at 2 a.m. The name's only appear like the soundtracks, right? They're up here in the show right? You can just make... No, I mean, if you're doing like an OPE or an ED,

they do have the opening. And no... It's true. Yeah. They use these tracks. Dry chicken. chicken sandwich by Kevin Frank. Drive to get that O-B for insert anime here.

He was never heard from it. No, because I did, I did notice in some of your tracks in Shield Hero, like, I think the first Shield Hero, there were, like, some weird names of me. Yeah. Actually, I'm gonna get it out now. Here we go. There were like some, some of like the usual suspect names of, you know, like generic anime music names.

And then there was just, so you go through this soundtrack list. And most of them are like, you know, normal. You know, you have a track that's called The Rising of the Shield Hero. Of course, the titular title. Of course. You know, you have like some, you know, Isakai type list type track called like Game Start and stuff like that.

And then you go down to like near the bottom. And then there's a track called like Spirit Bomb. And I'm like, huh, that, was that like a cheap Dragon Balls-E reference? Probably is. It's Kevin. Okay. We can get away with that. We can get away with that.

And then you're just like, boom, boom, boom. And you're like, Kevin, are you? you kind of running out of names and then you can have it even further and then you just there's a track just called

noms I was quite I can't listen to the track and I'm just like this name is nothing to do with the track at all

and then you go next it's like Matty boy Mattie boy who's Maddie boy I want to know I can actually explain this I can't explain

the noms I'm out on that one but that was a 2 a.m. chicken Which was like, I can really go for BK right now? Noms.

What was the first one you said it was? It was, it was, um... Spear ball. Oh, boom, boom, boom. You watch the interview? Like with, um, with, um, Frank and, uh, Seth Roga. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The one that, like, got, it's only hacked by North Korea. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, because, like, when, when they finally, like, shoot down Kim Jong-un in the movie. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Fucking Franco's character just goes, boom, boom, boom! Like, fires a tank bullet into the helicopter. And that's the reference That's it What's that got to do with Shield Hero?

Fucking nothing Is it even like a boomy track? I don't know I think so Yeah No it is a little bit It's like a battle thing It was like 50 plus tracks

That one Yeah How many That seems like Excessive almost Well I mean Because it was 26 It was 25 or 26 episodes

So that required So basically what happens As I'm sure you all know, but just vicarity and all that sort of thing. So there's normally cores, so one core, two cores. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like a season.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. So one core is 12 or 13 episodes. Oh, okay, okay, okay, yeah. It's a two core, it's like 24, 25, 26 episodes, something along with that length. And so, for example, Benbis is, well, Benbis season one, of course, is like 13 episodes, so it's one core.

Right, right. Shield Hero had 26 episodes, you know, like two core. Yeah. So normally for two cores, you don't double the music, but you probably like one, five times it. Right.

So for Mendesbis, the season one, I think the sound track comes in at one hour and 52 minutes, something like that. Right. And I think it's about, I think that was actually about 50-something tracks or like maybe 40, mid-40 tracks. Jesus. But then Shield Hero, yeah, it was about 60, 62 tracks. And it's about two hours and 50 minutes of music.

And is that like left up to you? Do you decide how many tracks you're making? No, actually. Like, hey, we need 62 tracks. Make them all sound different. It's actually pretty specific. So what basically happens is when you get commissions to write anime music,

you get a, just basically massive Excel sheet called the music order. So when you get the music order, it's basically, yeah, just like, you'll have like M1, like music one,

and then it'll say like main theme. And then like M2 will be like main theme happy version. And then like M3 will be main theme dark version. Yeah, right, right. And four, main theme hero version or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite generic sort of like descriptions,

and there might have some explanation or they might have some, you know, some visual images and stuff like that. So you actually get a lot of freedom, which I really, really like. So if you think about how, like, because they'll have all that sort of thing, and then maybe once you get to like M20, it'll be like Battle 1, Speed Battle or like Battle 2. Like serious. That's all we give you. Sometimes.

I mean, we can get very specific as well, but like it'll start from that sort of like, slightly more abstract sort of approach. Which is actually really, really cool because that way you actually do have a lot of kind of, like I said, freedom to actually just trying to explore different. ideas. Right. And you get the freedom to call a track nom. Yeah.

Well, I guess the track name doesn't matter. Right. Because when you're writing it, this has changed, like, my process on this has changed like a little bit since Shield here admittedly, so I probably wouldn't do that again. But it was. That was a process? Ah, you know, eventually. So, um, when you're writing, uh, what, what I like to do is, is try and match a lot of like

sort of the textual stuff I was talking about earlier. Yeah. I love trying to match texture to the actual visual sort of palette, if you will. Best way, like one of the most sort of like sort of basic examples or classic examples I can give is in Mayden Abyss. Obviously like it's quite a small amount of like kind of kid characters going to like a huge like cavernous abyss. Yeah. So you see in the visuals. It's not, there's normally a lot of wide shots where you just see kind of the small.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it just goes like super far. Yeah, yeah. And so like the idea of trying to actually. actually depict that visual sort of stimuli music is quite appealing to me. It's sort of, yeah, almost like a, it's called like word painting, which is basically like, like say you have lyrics and say, I'm going to rise up. And then the melody goes, I am going to rise up.

It's like literally rising with them. Rising with the shield. Right. He's with the shield. Well, actually, because in the main theme, like the violin start part of the start does actually rise up. And again, it's like, it sounds so basic. But it is good fun. A lot of the court stuff in main abyss also saw that dissension.

So you hear a lot of like, normally it's going down or up, but like, yeah, like the whole idea of like things rising and falling as best as possible. So, like, one thing I've always wondered is pretty much how you, how you like blew up onto the scene. Because I think like you blew up immediately in terms of like sound, in terms of being a composer, which is like, I find it's really rare. But I think a big part of that was just that opening. scene in Made in Abyss, where it was just like the instrumental with like the vocals as well and it was just no dialogue. It was just like a montage just using using this opening track. And it just like immediately, not only did it sell you on the show, but it just like put your work onto the map. Like how did that come about? Was that planned or was that just like a happy

coincidence? I was like totally lucky. And I'm glad I was like almost because I had a different track. I had a much more subtle track in mind for that called Swings and Roundabouts. That was like kind of my original idea for that thing because it was supposed to be like, oh, let's do these nice kind of really cool textures and stuff as the light kind of comes over. But then the sound director and the director decided differently to cut up because you don't write these, unless it's a movie or it's a

specific scene that's been requested to be written synchronized the picture. All the music is written what's called free. Right. Then it synced later. Right. So that wasn't meant to be synced at all. Originally, like my vision of it was to be different, but the director and the director and the director and the sound director obviously had a pretty deep discussion. They decided to put that song there.

And even better, they decided to put it there with minimal dialogue and sound effects, which is ridiculously lucky. Yeah. And so just to, you know, I guess just to like, how to even explain this, to see, that happen and to be so happily wrong about like what my vision was for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was like, oh man, thank God people are smarter than me. Like, because that song, the song was written just as sort of kind of almost just like another, like trying to make another palette for the soundtrack. When you start it, you're just

kind of going through like point after point after point. It's like, okay, well, let's just try and write a piece of music based off this manga panel. Or let's write a piece of music based off this description or this idea, you know, obviously like reading through the content and stuff and I was thinking like, oh yeah, they must, what do they give you? I'm like, oh, yeah, you can just go to the manga most of the time, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's really, it really is helpful. I mean, I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, it's just when, when, when you're able to, like, kind of look at what is, essentially, you can just see the entire story kind of pan out. Obviously, you're given, like, anime-specific materials as well, which is super, super, super, helpful.

But, yeah, when you're just trying to find something, that actually kind of hopefully like what's the best word respects the content as well yeah yeah yeah you know you're kind of creating you're adding an audio element that was not there before whereas the manga might be there before so there might be referenced that you know people might be able to reference the anime to the manga as yeah okay well this is similar this different something like that right music ever existed so yeah um it's both freeing and also kind of terrifying to yeah that's that's yeah that's the thing because like when i saw that scene i was like this is so perfect for this opening scene.

It must have been like specifically made for this one scene. Right. It was made around, it was made around like scenes like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would almost describe it more as like it was almost an impression of the show itself. Yeah. Did you feel like, because that was your first, was that your first anime work? No, sir.

It was, uh, that's my, geez, that was my third. That was your third. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. All right. Wow. Okay. So no, the first one was, it's always the same company.

Kinema Citrus, but we did something called Norn Nine. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. So, Norn Nine is, well, actually, it was a video game, and it was actually a video game I did with Uimatsu, like, way back when. So he did the new theme for that. I did a gym for this game called Norn Nine. Right, right, right.

A couple years later, when I started doing anime for this company called Kinnama and Citrus, they said, we're actually doing an anime of Norn Nine as well. Right. And so that, I didn't. So you were like the natural picture. Yeah, maybe that was it. Yeah, maybe. Maybe that was it.

Because like, I mean, I guess, I guess, you know, it makes sense to get the guy who did the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, I didn't think about it. What? Is that not obvious? No, okay. I'm like, I'm fucking 30s just fucking slipping, sparkling water.

You're like, wow, what are coins? No, but like. Like, that wasn't like a five-head observation. I was like, I'm a cum bitch. Oh, okay, wow. Okay, sorry, sorry. I just apologize for a microphone one. Yeah.

It's okay. Yeah. You don't apologize. This is exactly why this thing is right here. Yeah. There's a shock absorber, obsorba. Absor.

Absor. I'm going to go. I'm going. So you did it online? I was doing all nine at the same time. Maybe this is why I didn't think about it. I was also doing something called Under the Dog, which was a, yeah. A Kickstarter.

Oh. It Kickstarter. It kicked out of, yeah. That came first. And so I just, yeah, I didn't know, like, how everything kind of But I was on that for the trailer music and then they asked if I wanted to do the actual soundtrack. Yeah. So that was so cool because that was like the first one.

That was like, oh wow. I had no idea. I was like, like, I was like, like, you know, just fucking, for lack of better word, fantasizing about fucking trying to do anime for the year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lucky enough to do games for a couple of years. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God. I'm so happy about that.

Yeah. I was in college. I just finished college in London. So I was living here at the time. I had no idea what was going to happen. And all of them, boom, like, like, like, we were. you're in anime. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I am, yeah. You were composing for games while in college? Yeah, so when I did, I was, when I was doing undergrad that's when I started

doing much stuff and then that developed with other games, both Japanese and, and, so you were busy. Yeah, yeah,

I think, I don't know how I did it because I, I mean, again, maybe we'll get to the bottom of this while talking to you. Yeah.

You obviously got track. I'll make another five head observation. It's like, just like, like, like, like, like therapy times three.

Therapist times three. It's like, oh my God, everything makes sense. It's all connected, man. It's all connected, dude. Yeah, so I was working through our college as well. And yeah, it just happened. I mean, I was just work, work, work, work, work. And just, you know, it just fell over and just happened.

Yeah, yeah. Chimpsom fell into, yeah, the enemy. Most people, me included, don't do anything while at college. Yeah. Oh, okay. I thought you about saying. don't anything like like like in general i was like dare go down that house i'll bring out those compliments straight away son okay so like now what i want to know actually is like how you and gone got to

know each other because like i kind i kind of met you guys through that right like i made you through gone and whatnot um so like it's like where was the connection there that's a pretty simple connection i hope you remember i have i have like a pre-story okay which connects to that right um so I think I might have like drunkly mentioned this to Sydney or something potentially, but I don't think I've mentioned it to any of you, at least I don't remember mentioning it. So I actually like, when I was like going through like college and stuff, I like totally felt out of anime.

Right, right, right, right. I was not watching it. Like I remember when I was, I was watching little the jibbley stuff and whatnot and some shows, like some really important shows to me like kind of just to get into the anime kind of fandom to begin with when I was like 14 or so. Then it fell well out of it, kind of went totally on the ground for a long time.

And then what brought me back was doing Made in Abyss because I was like, you know, it was like one of those shows where like creatively was the first time I felt like, oh, I'm actually doing music that really feels like me sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like I'm bringing like a lot of the sort of more experimental stuff that I learned in, um, primary school, in undergrad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like I did my master's in London. And then that, and that was sort of like honed like film music craft a little bit. Right, right. What was your degree in, sorry? I did a Bachelor of, of composition of music technology at West Australian Academy of Performing Arts

and then I did a Masters of Music for Screen Composition for Screen at the Royal College of Music in London. Oh, okay. No, no, we call... We can drop. So yeah, I forgot that I have a fucking MAA. That's hilarious.

Yeah. But, um, but, um, no, I mean... Are you going on on WAP of so long? Oh yeah, I also have a master's in there. No, no, I see, it was awesome. I mean, it really kind of like honed the craft. That's why they're like, and just like learned how to like produce music for film.

Yeah, yeah. But Wopper like focused a lot more on experimental music or new music, a lot of art, art music. When you said Woff, I thought you were talking about, you had a burger, Burger King Woffer. I was on a beach just eating a bunch of Woppers experiments with music. Sounds pretty accurate. yeah um no like this kind of all came together for this like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

i mean god bless connemis citrus man they just gave me so much so much freedom yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah sort of birth to just kind of actually just kind of try some things that yeah i didn't know i could do it and i felt really good actually just kind of going through that process of yeah well i can i can oh i remember like that violin technique i've never like tried before and try that sort of thing and oh i can try and like record in this giant space in Vienna that can try and mimic the size of the abyss sort of thing

I was trying those sort of techniques that were just introduced to me either through undergrad or postgrad right it was just really nice yeah yeah yeah um what's a question how are you in garment

oh yeah sorry there is a point to all this I promise there is a point okay so on the back of those feel goods you know doing this I was curious okay how is the show doing yeah right and i would type in in you know the you googled yourself

no no no i googled made the miss okay i googled a bit okay is it you know how is it you know yeah yeah and all these youtubeer guys were were trying to talk about it i'm like oh okay they're talking about it yeah yeah and then um you made this video yeah about like which music of what was your favorite anime and what I think it was like one of like the anime of the year kind of thing where I did like a brand of right yeah like I like you know you had like the art category and the animation category and then yeah

the music category yeah and you made this like great joke like about the fact that I was Aussie no because there was this one clip that got posted in like the behind the scenes documentary of made an abyss right because it's like very professionally made documentary And there's just this one clip of Kevin going to be like, he was talking to someone.

And I can't remember the exact line, but he talks about, oh, yeah, can he, uh, this, he's like, you, you refer to someone as like a mate or something like that, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, Dimitri was the guy I was talking to.

Right. He's just amazing. He's, like, the main violinist and all the abyss stuff. Right. Right. He is like the bosses of bosses when it comes. Right. Right.

And he's, unbelievable. He's big, dude boys were wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, he's like, oh, yeah, try, it's good. Sorry, I don't do a good impression of him. We don't know it's a beautiful. So I don't even know. Yeah, I mean, more just covering my eyes.

But, um, so, because, um, yeah, I was, I was, I was, I don't play violin and play flute. Yeah. So I checked with college friends before going over. I'd be like, is this shit? It's just fucked up. If I give this to someone in a recording studio. Yeah. So obviously, remember, like, when you go into a recording session, that's fucking thousands of euros or dollars,

whatever it is, like a fucking hour. Like, we're talking like five figures easily in a couple of hours. Yeah. Like, or eight hour, depending on how many people you're hiring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super expensive scenario to be like, oh, the flute player wrote fucking stupid fucking violin lines. So checking with friends or mates beforehand was exactly what I did.

Oh, and I was trying to be chill about it. I was like, yeah, no, no, I just checked with like a mate. And like that, but the phrase's mate, he did not understand. He's, he's Austrian-American. Yeah. Right. He was like, chook with a what? I'm like, oh, with a friend.

It was like, yeah, he was in the behind. Yeah, he was in behind. But he can't like fucking super impose land down under over that fucking clip. Yeah, I mean, I checked with a mate, but he seemed to say that was okay. Check with a what?

With a friend. Okay. And, but for some reason, it felt really cool to have like that, you know, that response from this YouTuber fucking, fucking guy. So actually, like, and then I started getting really curious about, okay, this lovely gentleman

over here is thinking like this about, you know, maybe this girl who else is thinking about. Like, what, what is everyone else thinking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, fucking Anatochievers were the reason I got back into anime. Oh, shit, man. No shit. Holy shit.

Yeah, yeah. Antichie was doing a positive thing for someone. For the anime industry. Yo. You guys brought it, like, brought me back. And then once Abyss hit, we started going to conventions. And then I saw that you were going to be there. like, oh, I must, I must say hello.

Yeah. I've been enjoying the, yeah. I've been enjoying the content. I have ever since. No, because like, like, I remember, because we were both going to Control Expo and I was like, oh, Kevin's going. And you know when you like, I don't know why, right? You just, you just like bring out this aura of just like, he's a lad.

He's a fucking lad. That was extrapolated just from that one clip that's like, oh, I check with the mate. And then he goes, check with the what? And you just see the panic being like, oh, go, check with a friend. Is equal parts resting bitch face and spastic? And I was just like, from the one clip, I was like, it seems like a lad.

Yeah. I, of course, we met the first time that was like the bar or something. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's like a, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Where is a more fitting place

than meeting, meeting each other. And I was, are you gigac? Yeah. And it was like, I was like prepared to be like, are you Kevin? Oh my God, I'm like a big fan of your work. Maiden the best was absolutely amazing. Lo and behold, Kevin comes up to me and taps me on the shoulder.

And I like, at this time, you know, Annie Che was like way smaller than it is now. So like, I'm just like a random guy who got just like invited to this anime expo. Been really excited to meet people in the industry. People just actually worked on anime. And then Kevin taps me on the shoulder and be like, are you gigak? I fucking love your work. I'm like, why are you saying this to me? I should be saying this to you.

That's true. No, but that's the thing. I came from the exact same position. Right, right, right. It's just happy to be. I'm not happy to meet people. Yeah.

I meant really, I mean, because of that show, I'm here. Yeah. Right, right. We got to get into, and now I got like,

and we. Yeah. It's like, no, my first time meeting is when you ordered too much chicken. So that was a bonding experience. I was a bonding experience. I was going to say,

we can, yeah, we can. Yeah, Trump is very good. I've never been back to that change. Well, the first time I met you was at a Nizakaya in Shibia

and you were just like, oh, you want to do long high? And at first I was like, who's this bloke? And then I realized this fucking Kevin. I was like, oh, okay. Let's take four Magnus Saeers in a little bit. Yeah, so of course, like Crunchyroll Expo, we like immediately bonded over fucking getting pissed as a British and Aussies do.

Of course, course. But, like, I remember you got to a point of drunkness where you started, like, spewing some really interesting shit about your creative process of Made in the Biss. I did that last night to you. He did that one with me, yeah. Where, like, for some reason, there's, like, a certain drunkness level where Kevin gets really eloquent

about talking about his creative process in music. And he was talking about this one track, which was played over, like, a very spoilerific moment in Made In The Biss season one. Yeah. Yeah. It was a very. emotional moment and he was talking about like using like juxtaposition and like techniques that you learn from like university in college and I was just I remember being like I was pretty toasted

I was just like this is really fucking interesting I just really like as like an anime fan I would love to hear this when I'm sober because I'm like no remembering any of this so like I put a mental note to ask him about it the next day when I'm sober and so is he so we can explain in more detail it's really fucking interesting so I go to Kevin I was like Kevin you were made talking about this track and made in the best and like how you came up with that and what process you did. Like, can you like expand to that? Because that's really fucking interesting. And he just looks at me and goes, I've no idea what the fuck I said, mate. No, you're like, Kevin, Kevin did that to me on Friday. He went, he went off about this

one synthesizer for like two hours. It's like, he's like, you don't understand. When you put your finger on it, it's like 50 springs. 50 springs on your finger. And it feels amazing. It's amazing. It's like velvety. And it feels so good. And I'm just like, Oh, yeah. Imagine putting your finger on, like, you know, like, diver's, like, not skin, diver's skin. Like a wetsuit. What, diver, yeah, so there's a, I got a synth that's made out of diver wet suit with all these different springs underneath. And you play it like a seaboard.

So you can, like you play synth and stuff, but it's like a Littado sort of thing. All right. You should assume I know what a seaboard is. Oh, yeah, so I want that. Imagine a piano, but with no keys. And it's just a lion. Yeah, that's a seaboard, yeah Like,

Like that Imagine doing that with a piano Yeah It's that the thing That they did like The fucking jerk it out meme On What?

Okay, Oh fuck I'm sorry I'm gonna What are you? No, you know It's one of the Do do, do, do, do, do, do No, no, no, not that, not that.

What is that? It's like, okay, imagine that But instead of a pen, it's your finger. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. This is a pen. Quarter of appendis. Pankingness.

Yeah, yeah. So he was going off about that for like what felt like two hours. And it was really interesting. But I was, his exact same situation, I was like, I'm really hammed. This is really cool.

You're showing me all these, like, YouTube videos and it's like really loud by. And I'm like having to do this. Yeah, it's like really like specific, like quite nuanced sound. Yeah. Like I was like, oh, it's a 43 minute video.

Just let me scrub for a minute. It's just, yeah. But it's good to hear, it's like great when you're hearing someone who's like so passionate about something. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, like, I do actually fucking love it. Like, I might like joke about it a little bit and, oh, I don't remember how this fucking happened.

But, you know, it's like, it's like, at least like, you know, as like a fellow musician, I understood the majority of what you were saying. I can't imagine what it was like the gun. It's just like hearing all these like musicology terms. It's just like, mm-hmm, yeah. Have you ever heard a moose? somebody like that. Is that something I should know?

I think I... I asked about like the Doom soundtrack and you were telling me about how yeah, to compose it he got some Russian synth and I was like... You were telling me her! I was like...

In my head, I was like... I was like, I was like, I understand that it being from Russia could add to the sound of it sounding more doom like. Yeah. Yeah, I was just like, I'm in my head, I'm like, Does the Russia have a lot of influence on the synth being like more Dooms-esque?

Like, is the soundtrack of Russia just doom? Oh, so, so I feel like I, like, once I tired you out, I like went next to your next victim. So, let me tell you about Russian synthesizers. Yeah, I was like, I was like, I don't know any synthesizers, but I'm open to hear. So the Polyvox is a Soviet era synthesizer that it's about 50 kilograms and it has like one of the most, Nali fucking sounds. Because you got to think of, okay, the synthesizer is based, I mean, among other things, it's voltage being put through an oscillator.

Okay. So it's like, it's a fucking biblical sound. It is beautiful. And the way that you can shape these oscillators and then filter them through different effects and stuff makes a synthesizer's character come out. So like different types of processing that you have the oscillator. I mean, you can just listen to the oscillator be an oscillator. But at the same time, the way that it's processed through certain other like kind of effects

and boards in a synthesizer gives it a certain unique character this is exactly how he sounded by the other night by the way very eloquent like you know in the same way like you have like a guitar right and different makes of the guitar

and different types of guitar depending on how it's made the pickups and stuff like that it'll have a different characteristic yeah think of it like that but electricity and so this particular synthesizer that yeah was used

in the Doom soundtrack and I would love to get one but like the they're not easy to get it all right it's like they are dated instruments now yeah that is a so is your house just filled with just men instruments and synthesizers and a bunch of other random stuff because like yeah so um my fucking i guess call it both a quarter life crisis and like my pandemic kind of like pandemic crisis right right depression fucking fuck covid sort of like outlet was just to fill this room with just all this fucking shit to just record yeah yeah and

And like, it's, it helped a lot. Yeah. I mean, I saw you tweeting about it constantly, right? So I'm like, yeah, it was all like, that's the problem is that like, like, all it took was for me to ask about this, like, one particular synthesizer that I really liked. All I said was, so, Kevin, I heard you bought a Moog. And then he just went off for two hours. Sorry, let me tell you my life story. Yeah.

Now we always think, like, what's the opposite of, you know, the horse girl? Well, apparently, it's the synthesizer guy. It's the synthesizer guy. the sense guy I'm still trying to figure out why I tried to make you think about what a moose sounds like I don't know why I picked that

see this is a problem it's like I'm too sober I'm not making enough sense yeah I'm not making enough sense yeah it's like a little gray area where between like dysfunctional and functional functional I don't again why would I just decide

just now that yeah yeah I know everything up down is up exactly so I'm a bit afraid to ask after what we've just talked about, but what is your creative process? Do you have one? Right. Because I'm sure you have like the answer prepared for like when you get asked that on a panel.

And like I hear you ask, ask that question on the panel and I'm just like that that is not like the Kevin. I know. So it's kind of weird because I don't like, I haven't. He's buffering. He's buffering. It's like the old DLR, whatever the EMSR, whatever it's called. DLR is the top of the night. My bad.

My bad. Don't work. This is it. This is the process. Right? The first fucking have some fucking stroke on. It's all good. It's all good.

It's all great. How much of usable content we're actually making. It's all cut. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like. It's a one minute. cut. Yeah.

He left the end. So is it the beeps and the boobs? No, well, yeah. So it comes from like, it comes from many places. Right. I can't make that sound good. So I'm just going to meme it. So let's say, for example, one way is that I've, um, I've, like, working up in the

middle of the night. I had like some sort of fucking weird fever dream. But then I'm working up with like some sort of melody in my head. Yeah. I'll write it down as like almost like a musical and boss code. on like Evernote because I got like Evernote and I'll do like a little memory as like B dash dash is like B for two beats. So I write like a tempo and maybe like a like a like tempo.

You wake up thinking about melodies? Only like sometimes. But then the problem is I'll like write it down and be like, oh man, that's fucking good. I'm going to go back to sleep now. I'm going to wake up nice and early after I've had a nice rest. And you know, just like get to work and I wake up and like oh, it means fucking nothing to me.

So I have to like reinterpret what I like wrote. Lamenter. Yeah. because I used to do that as well but now when I but now when I do it I just sing into my phone so the next morning I wake up

and I'm just like it's just like audio of me just like really quietly like three in the morning Accomus think I'm fucking psychotic because I'm just singing to myself at three in the morning but it helps

yeah another way that I'd like start a piece of music would be like literally just try and like find a cool sound or a cool like right right right so yeah whether it be like one of the sort of one of the therapy synthesizers that i decided to get right which synthesizers should i used to there you know just learning up learning up logic pro and just be like okay let's let's let's fuck around and just see what happens and just little cheeky little piano sometimes it's nice and stop playing stuff yeah it's just like well most of it shit but then eventually

you get something that's like okay it's not too shit that i couldn't come back and like find it later. Right. It might be a little bit of a riff or something, sometimes, stuff like that. But so like, let's take, let's take the Rising of the Shield Hero main theme. At the start, it's just like sad piano. Boom. It's like sad piano.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you have this violin coming in going, bit a bit a bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit. Yeah. And it kind of, it rises up. Yeah. It's the Mario theme. I was like, I don't remember that in the Writers of the Shield Hero.

No, I would be, I would be very out of work. Nintendo lawyers knocking at your door. I was trying to do like the but-dum-spo. What's a melody version of that? Yes, that is really not. I'm sorry, people. I'm very sorry. No, I'm sorry.

I'm so bad. Yeah. I'm too sober for this. come prepared. Like my blood alcohol is not of, of, of, of, of, of, uh, of the part. So the right thing is shield here. Yeah. So the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da kind of starts.

That was where that, so I would start with that and try and work around that. Right. I guess you can think of it as like, you know, you create like one little line and then you create another little line that kind of connects to that. And so it kind of slowly becomes like a sort of a bit more of a complicated kind of becomes like patchwork type of thing, right? Yeah. And like, you kind of like,

go back to like kind of fill in and refine. Damn. Right. So like maybe I'll have like a structure of something or I'll have like, you know, most of a structure of something to work with. And then I'll just kind of sit back and be like, okay, what sucks? One needs to be changed and just kind of refine. Almost like, um, something like, uh, is it a trench fishing? What's that? It's where, it's where like they, the trishing is like, yeah. It's like it's like a net. It's like, drag the seaboard like the, the, the, the, the seabed and let's like,

that fish like that way. It's like a filter process. Drenched fish. Dredge fishing. That was the loudest, like, five seconds of silence ever on the show. That was, like, that was the loudest silence ever in my life. I was trying to process. It was like...

I think, yeah, I was trying to say dredge, but then I thought of, like, the Mariana trench. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, trench. Well, we do the fucking... Drench. That is my head. Drench fishing.

Yeah, dredge fishing. Right. Like, you think of that is like, but you're just, like, going through. You're listening. Yeah. I don't know what his action is anymore. And then you're just kind of refining, refining, refining until you kind of can't find any more, like, flaws, so to speak. Right, right, right.

Or you're right out of time. Right. Yeah. Do you kind of, like, do you kind of, like, show those, like, unfinished or, like, you know, combed through pieces to, like, other people to get, like, a second opinion? Or do you kind of just like, all the time, all time. There's, like, there's, like, kind of, like, kind of core people where I'll be like, hey, so. Yeah. Right.

Just be honest. Yeah. Just tell me real. What's the track and you wrote? And you're just like, this one's the banger. This one's a fucking banger. I can't wait to hear this. This is the one that will explode my career.

No, I don't think like that. I don't think like that. What I normally like more, what I gravitate more in terms of, like, being confident about a track is kind of the process of it. Yeah. I use an example that I can't tell you like now, but like last night. But like, let's take like Maden Abyss season one, for example. Right. there's a track that I mentioned earlier called Swings and Roundabouts and it involves a really cool sort of arpeggio style playing a playing technique called arpeggiation on a violin.

So normally when you play a violin, sorry, any violins out there about to fucking hate me because I'm going to explain what a violin does like as a flautist and it's going to suck. But if you think of it, because normally you see a violin, they play one or two strings at the time and then they normally make changes like that. one of the techniques that I really enjoyed was where they put fingers in all four strings and then just kind of bow up and down on all four strings and always make like a chord so if you do like that doesn't do much

but you go one two three four back one two three four so it's like this kind of cool kind of chord sort of thing and you can play it quite play it very very fast because they're fucking good musicians but then you can change that all the time

so you always like kind of changing chords all the time. And you can make these really cool, because it's a very shimmery sort of texture. But I did that on one violin, and then I had, in the best season one, we had three violins,

three viola, two celly and one bass. And all of them playing like solo parts. So it's like nine songs together. And they're all playing these different chords, like the peggiated chords together. And it's called sort of making this bit of this sort of concophony of like sounds and stuff.

So like doing, those sorts of things makes me feel good about that track. It's like, oh, I got to explore this kind of crazy thing. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, I got to like kind of explore that and it didn't fucking fail. And it sounds good. Yeah. And that's great. Yeah.

And I like the, I like the noise. Yeah. This is so alien to me that. You're explaining all this stuff and it literally just sounds like another world. Like it doesn't sound like a thing that I can even comprehend. But I appreciate it because, you know, I know you're making sense. Yeah. It's just like, to me,

I have such engineering and math brain. Yeah. The way I approach everything and like it's very like, okay, I just do it. I do it. There's nothing that's like just a gut feeling. There's no experimentation. Yeah. You know,

I mean, I mean, there needs to be a part of that in, in this process as well. Right. Because experience means that you can execute these ideas. True. Like you can have,

yeah, I've had like crazy fucking ideas. I have no idea how to do and I still don't. Yeah, I was going to ask where you said something earlier and I was like, how do you convince, so you, like,

You mentioned that you're in like a chapel or something. You're recording like an orchestra or something. Right. How do you go like, hey, hey, hey, higher-ups. I have this idea. I'd like to rent out a church somewhere in Austria. Could we ship and get a bunch of violinists and all the people there? Yeah, it might work out.

Let's just see how it goes. By the way, it's $100,000. Yeah. The mite part is definitely not something that I translate. Yeah. You're like, it's definitely going to work. Like, first off, thankfully, there's trust. So, like, that's, right.

I mean, you've proven that you. Yeah, a little bit of trust. Yeah. But so, obviously, like, when you start a project, you're given a budget. And, you know, the budget, you know, sometimes you can, like, kind of stretch it a little bit. And, you know, you can do some little bit of black magic just to get some deals and stuff. Is budget, like, like, this might sound stupid. There's budget.

And then you get your pay separate, right? That's, like, completely. Yeah. Or is it, like, you have to decide. You're like, there's a, there's a, make it. Make it all in one. No, there's a reposes fee and then there's... Right, right, okay, right.

It makes sense. Yeah. Production fee. Okay, good. Pretty standard. But, um, so, uh, when we were able to kind of, like, explore this idea, using Maden Biss an example, like, yeah, we're trying to explore this, like, this massive studio, uh, called the Synchron Stage in Vienna, which I think, it fits, like,

a hundred and thirty-five musicians. It's a massive room. Yeah. Like, I'm pretty sure it's like a football field, if not slightly more. I understand that metric. Yeah. A football. Yeah.

Oh, no, there we go. And it's got a really unique sound profile. And so you can stick, like, a really small amount of musicians in there. And it will sound fucking huge because they put all these microphones around. You get all these ambient microphones. They stick it like 30 feet up in the air and stuff. And you have a liquid out triggers and you got like everything, man. You've got all this sound to play with.

Is that not just like a nightmare to go through all those different like angles of sound? No, to me. To me, you're saying that to me. And I'm like, holy shit, the setup required to get off on. Man. I'm raging hard on for him. Just shutting up like four mics for this fucking podcast gives me that. He sees a mic 30 feet up in the end.

He's just bricked up. He's like, damn. That's going to sound so good. These mics got me acting up, man. You have absolute permission to, like, slit my throat. I don't actually utilize a space like that. Like, you get really nuts, too. Yeah, yeah.

But, no, like, so the space is phenomenal. And then we get a small amount of musicians because it's like, we decided, like, okay small amount of characters in the film in the show a small amount of musicians to kind of like mimic that party size yeah yeah and so just having like yeah like three solo violas three solo viola three uh three two solos show one cellar bass but then them all kind of doing their own thing but because the space is so good and so clean you can have all these voices like really not if you orchestrate correctly right you can uh so it's like if you balance your text is correctly and all that sort of shit yeah

um you can have like a really rich sound with a small amount of people and it can sound phenomenal It's beautiful. It's really fun. You're performing magic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This means you just said like so many words that I'm like, yeah. I'm like, damn, man. Say that again.

I mean, sometimes like... I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not at all. But, I mean, sometimes like just the basic stuff, like, even just doing the base, like, it is like kind of, let's call it simple, like, refined simple. Right.

Sort of ideas is really, really fun. One of the other tracks that's in best season one called recapitulation. What's that? Something in recapitulation, sorry. But I should probably remember my own tracks. But it just involves the nine strings, just playing just notes. And all they're doing is changing the duration of the bow hand in order to get shorter or longer notes.

So they have like three different levels of length of node. But it's the same note. It's the same note. I mean, we change up the chord sometimes, but it is quite minimalistic. Right, right. particular track. Right.

But, so basically, if you change the texture in that room, because you have something called, oh, Christ, I should probably remember the damn thing from, the, what's called? Nope, we're going to, we got to do this. You're remembering. You're remembering. All good, man. All good.

It's like early reflections, early reflections. I think it's called early reflections. Okay. Right, right, right. The early reflections of the sound. So, like, the sound that kind of like, because sounds flying everywhere in the room. Right. Yeah.

It's what they go do. Yeah. Sound goes everywhere. And obviously, it bounces off certain points and then comes back to the microphone. Those early reflections, early reflections in that room are really, really cool. Right. And they have a lot of character. Because it's almost like an echo effect or the chorus effect.

And so, for example, if I recorded your voice in there, but I didn't use like the mic that's in front of you. But I used the mics that caught like the first reflections of you just behind you or in front of you or something like that. Right. It would almost sound like there's like 10 of you. Right. Right. Right. Right. It's really cool chorus. It's quite unique to that. I mean. Because it's kind of like spread out and bounced around a little bit, right? Yeah. Because of the quality of the wood in the room and stuff. Yeah. And things change. So it is, it is like a really good room. So is this like, is this place like famous? Because I can't imagine, okay, you're going to record a soundtrack. You want like a certain sound profile for like made in the best. because this place seems like it was tailor-made for a series like Made in Abyss and caverns and wide open spaces. How would you like go about finding the perfect recording spot or the perfect recording space?

The correct recording spot, yeah. Yeah, the correct. So for Abyss, it was at one. I think for, well, because for Rising of the Shield here, we recorded in Boston with a rock orchestra. And they specified in rock orchestra. So the players did live performances at the time with a full live band. I think they did some fun of fancy stuff,

among other square and these projects, among other things as well. So they kind of specialized in that kind of quite cool kind of attitude orchestra with rock, which is what we wanted to achieve for cheer hero. Tower of God, obviously, I mean,

it's in the name as well. It has like a slightly biblical sort of sensibility about it. And we found this hall in the Czech Republic called the Dvorjak Hall. So it's this beautiful old hall. It was built a thing in the name of the Vorgiac. So he's like a very, very, very famous composer of romantic. Right. Late romantic music, I should say.

But so this hall was designed either for him or by him or around him. So sorry about not being specific about it. But it is a beautiful concert hall. It is ancient. It has this beautiful lush sort of like reverb tail and stuff. It is fucking pretty to like listen to. it's a performance but they also do recording there

and so we recorded string orchestra there for Tower of Cod because it had this sort of almost cathedral-esque sort of sensibility which worked great for certain aspects of the Tarragut soundtrack Right right right So this one hall

It was It had a very specific sound that say A normal cathedral wouldn't I'm sure a normal cathedral but that's when practicality comes into it. So you got to make sure at the end of the day that, you know, again, you've got to fit within certain budgets and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, that's part of like the business skills part of it, which, you know, does come in. Right, right, right. So I imagine you have these grandiose ideas and this concept that you have. Yeah. And there's a guy there that is like, I am here to scale you back down. Yeah. I'm here to make sure that you keep your life.

So you're pushing the envelope a little bit, aren't you? Like, it's like, I want to record on the moon. Because it's a space opera. I'm like, you know. There's no sound of specks. We're getting real experimental. We're going to build a cathedral in space. Apparently a dying black hole,

like a black hole is like the loudest sound ever. But you can't hear it. I believe. Yeah. I believe us. Probably. Yeah. Yeah.

The moon would be nice, but I don't think I'm going to. You're not going to make a whole lot of progress there. No. What do you tell us the fact about the dying black hole being the, the loudest thing of... I think they did manage to record it. Oh, no, yeah.

I think it is... It must be the loudest sound because it's a black hole consuming stars. But they managed to record the sound of it, I think, recently. And it's like this, this eerie fucking... Yeah, it's...

It's atoms being crushed into nothing. Yeah. Right, right, right. Anyway, yeah. Interesting pit of... We're not going to the moon. We're not going to the moon. Second loudest is a modern warfare too lobby.

Exactly. Exactly. So like going like, I guess moving from made in abyss, one thing I've noticed is that you always try to do something new with like every new projects that you take on. I guess that's why you put a lot of experimental stuff into made an abyss. And I feel like Tower of God, right? That's just like dubstep, which is like so far removed from what you were doing and Made in Abyss. Like how do that come about? Like did you have to listen to like a lot of dubstep to like study it or did that just like come out?

Did they tell you or was that your decision to be like, I'm going to put a bunch of fucking dubstep in it right now. It's because I used to go to a lot of fucking rays. I just feel like me had a rave. No, no. Like one of the people I worked with that is, okay, pre-story again. But like, yeah, so Perth has like a massive drum and bass scene. We've really in the back story.

Yeah, yeah. But pendulum from there, for example. Oh, yeah, true. Of course. Like, it has a great scene. And yeah, so when I went to Wopper, I got introduced because I was like, oh, I love video game music and that's it. sort of thing. Yeah.

But then one of my friends, one of my really, really close, best friends that I still, you know, we're still really, really close today. Yeah.

So we've known each other, fuck, it's getting on 13 years now. Yeah. But, yeah, he used to be like, oh, well,

we're going to this, fucking, you know, we're going to, like, this, like, hotel bar to go to rave, and I've got a track

and one of the DJs play one of my drum bass tracks to come. And then, yeah, just do a bunch of fucking, like, vodka cruises and whatnot.

just dance like a fucking energizer bunny on the fucking floor like for like three or four hours and it would be great and so I kind of kept that cut and when I moved here obviously that you know those big kind of EDM I just like to imagine you at like DefCon or something and you're just standing there like they don't know I'm a flautist

like it's just like standing there I'm very good at the world's shittiest shuffle you know I would pay to see that yeah no it's like but that that that um that culture of um of dance music and especially um like hardcore music yeah well either liquid drum bass or dark drum base so i can just

kept with me so like if you think about like kind of those elements where it's either like very very fluid sort of synthesizes or it can be like it like there is some fucking hardcore like music like in that genre yeah yeah yeah if you've like been to like a art man it's like there's so many like there's so many like examples but you know if you if you hear like um oh i can't even think of like I remember going to a couple of gigs in either south or east London when I was living here. Yeah. And the fucking base that comes out of some of these like venues. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Because there's like, I went to this warehouse gig once. I can't remember where because it's been so long ago about now. But like I remember like just walls and walls of speakers for hundreds of meters. And then because it's like a three story warehouse, they've got some of it's going up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right. A fucking base that comes out of those mixes. Yeah. And when you're on the dance floor, you know, obviously you had a couple of your vodka vodka tonics or something like. Man, you just, like, it's wetting. You feel, you feel every atom in your body just like shake. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Especially the bass. Like, it's a fucking physical reaction. Yeah. It's so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like... You know the bass is good when you don't hear it. You just feel it.

You do. That's such a good adjective. Biblical. I'm gonna use that more often. It's resonating your chest chest. It's really good. And it feels awesome. And it sounds great as well.

I'm talking, you just don't believe. This chicken sandwich, biblical. Biblical. It's so good that Jesus had to get involved. There's a little spiritual. But yeah, so that culture and that feeling still is with me, even though I write a lot of orchestral music as well. Yeah, yeah.

When it came to Tower of God, if you look at the manwa, because Manwa, unlike the manga, is, it's colorized. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you look at the color palette for Tower of God in the Manwa, it's actually very minimalist. Yeah. So, like, three or four, like, very big, bold colors on a panel. And then you go back and so you see these really interesting, like, some of the

characters are sometimes just silhouettes against, like, a huge, beautiful background. Right, right in front of a giant creature or something like that. So there's a, there's a, as a composer, it's like, kind of a bit of a wet dream. It's really good. Yeah. And so if you think about taking really bold colors that are contrasting and trying to put them together in a musical sense, yeah. Like you can split it into, let's say, a frequency range.

You can go high, mid, low. Yeah. So if you have, I did a theme for one of the characters, but Rachel. Yeah. And her theme is literally just harp. So it's harp in the middle. There's like dial up style tones on top. And then just this base comes in to just kind of punch you into face, essentially.

Right. Chest cavity. And so like that's sort of like, upset with harp, for example. How can we find an interesting combination that still kind of relate back to this idea of frequency spectrums being kind of split up to represent very minimalist but maximalist style coloring in panels. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, like, you know, you have a like it's kind of pretty harp and also on. Yeah. Yeah. And then, like, also like very, so, I know, welcome. But, like, you know, these sorts of, like, also radical changes in texture as well. Like that suits Tarragord in my mind at least. Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely did.

When you handed it to them and you were like, here it is. They were like, were they like, whoa. It was kind of interesting because we did essentially what you could call almost like a concept album. We did like 13 tracks. We're like we're going to put together 13 contrasting tracks to present. That's quite a lot of tracks. It was a big investment. Yeah.

But like we did like the first 13 tracks as like sort of approved concept saying like this is what we want to do. This is how we want to do it. This style of choir and, you know, this half and. dubstep idea and want to you know punch people on the face with like beats and shit and uh they were all for it which again just fucking lucky and thank you to them for like actually just being like being cool with it

yeah yeah I feel like when you explain stuff of music I'm like yeah okay all right yeah I have achieved impossible yeah I feel I feel like I'm if I was the exec I'd be like you sound like you know it I'll just I'll believe you you mention the word biblical that's all I need to know

He said biblical, minimalist and then maximalist. Within like one second, and I was like, that sounds like you know what's up. It's like, look into my eyes. I'm trying to, I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm hard. Go ahead. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Well, I mean, at the end, you also need to, you know, execute the concept. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So, like, you know, because obviously everything's done kind of in a computer, so to speak, until you go to the recording process as well. Yeah. You're also showing a demo. You're not showing, like, the full really.

Yeah, yeah. sort of thing. So then you've got to potentially risk, you know, going and finding the right musician, find the right space. Yeah. Within the right budget, of course, as well. Are you the one handling all of this? I mean, it's not like, I've got sort of the music supervisor

director. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That we work with every day. Right. So you need someone to play the half, right? You need someone to record it. You're like, I know a guy or you're like, please find me a half a person. Well, this is the lucky part about going to a music college. Because you know everyone. You get to not much musicians.

So like a couple of the composer friends that I went to Wopper with. Sorry, I'm going to come back to it. But like, you know, it's all fucking, it's all connected, man. My man's got Demetre on speed, I was like, hey, oh. I know the guy. No, no, no, no. He knows a mate. Yeah, he knows a mate.

He's a beautiful boy. Beautiful man. She's pretty better. Yeah, no, so like, for example, like, when I went to Undergrad and Wopper, like, I had a couple of friends and stuff that, like, I started working with on Tower of God. So, you know, Matt McLean feeding here is his name. And we did some jump-based stuff for, for Tower of God. Yeah.

Like, really, really nice. Yeah. And then I need some musicians because I went to, yeah, the RCM here in London. Right. And, like, those student musicians are bloody good. Yeah. And, you know, those, yeah, super musicians of the RCM become, you know, they have a very, very good chance of becoming working musician. Yeah.

Right. You'd hope so. You'd hope so. There is a really, like, they are beautiful musicians. And because you, because you're just basically breaking bread with these guys for two, three, four years. I mean, you're going to the RCM bar and you get an hammered with these guys all the time. And so, you know, you have like this connection because, you know, in the same way that we kind of, you know, broke a little bread over, yeah, over about 600 gin tonics. You do the same with, like, the musician and stuff.

They're good friends. But they also just, they just, they come to work. Yeah. It sounds like every aspect of the entertainment industry. It's like, you can be good at what you do, but also you need to go out and talk to people. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's super important.

And so when it came to certain projects like this, like Tara God, like, oh, I mean, Valeria was the harp player. And she does not any classical harp, but she also does improv harp. So I could just give her, like, you know, I could almost give them some, you know, really piece of shit fucking, like, sheet music. I was like, I've done my best to like make it so that it doesn't look like an absolute insult, but feel free to just interpret this in a non-shitty way.

Right, right. I was going to ask you about this. You're mentioning that you're the one writing the sheet music, basically, roughly. How do you come across the knowledge of every single instrument you want to use? Pain and suffering. Because obviously, if you're a violinist, you do violin. You're very good at it. You're like, I need to know this Russian synth.

Also, can I find the harp? And I need to write that. Like this sounds like an overload of knowledge that you have to acquire or have a rough understanding of almost everything. So, yeah. So when you're orchestrating for Elagrin someone, so harp is a very, very specific and very unique instrument. Yeah. Works on a pedaling system, which I understand the concept of, but don't know how to, like, achieve. Right.

So what I would say is that you kind of working up your base knowledge of certain things. Obviously, like when I write Woodwind, like Woodwind sectionals, it's a lot kind of, let's call it more natural. Yeah, because you understand that. Yeah, it's like, okay, I understand that if I do something quite fucky that there's going to be a will or a way to kind of get it done. That's why you hear like quite a few flute passages and whatever. So, because I, you hear a lot of flute jumping up and down and up and down and up and down

because like, oh, yep. It's like, it's just your comfort instrument, right? It's just like. But then when it comes to say to me to the violinist, because he is such a fucking boss, I can do like what would normally be insultingly stupid shit. But he'd be like, okay, let's go. And you just fucking. Yeah.

I can do this, I can do that, and then it's fucking like, does all these different permutations of it just do a bunch of tags and just cut it together. It just sounds fucking awesome. Yeah.

And I'm just sat there like, oh shit, it actually worked. Yeah. And then like, so it's literally like, fuckload trial, trial and error.

I was going to say it must. Yeah. A lot of risk. But then also, yeah, like I did learn orchestration. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is basically just going through, yes,

going through every instrument and it's been like, what does and does not work. And you just build it up. So flute. But then there's alto flute, bass flute. And then, yeah, base flute has certain characteristics in which, you know, if you go too high on the bass flute, it's going to start doing overtone.

Right, right. The alto flute and the flute or the piccolo won't do in the same way. Would you say there's always a concern then when you're like, I don't want this guy to think I'm a fucking idiot for writing this and then handing it to a professional. That's why, like, in me a chill atmosphere in the studio. Okay. Okay. For example, that's why you see in that in that.

That's when you start to call people mates. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like I like you want to bring your A game. So you come you come with like the best possible job that you could have done. Yeah. You've done as much research as possible. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, I mean, because that's what that's like getting a lot of weight in pandemic. So I'm just like working, but I couldn't do anything like kind of get rid of the stress. Right, right. It's like, okay, I need to do this. I need to do that. And like like the Star Wars saying like, you know, you want to make sure that is right. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, of course. You want to bring the best. fucking sheet music. You want it to be beautifully typeset. You want that to be the best looking music who's ever written.

Right, right, right. And you want the musicians to be happy because you want the project to go really, really well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And thankfully it did, but like, again, like you bring your A game and then you give the musician enough adequate scope

if there is a mistake. Yeah. Or you get yourself, you know what it is. It's almost like you're refining the level of potential mistake. Yeah. Down to where there's, and like you're in a sphere of like safety.

Yeah. And then within that, if there's a mistake, if there's something like that, oh, that dynamic doesn't work. That doesn't work. Yeah. This part doesn't work. Yeah, this part isn't really doable.

Or like, let's just try you. They should tell you. And that's why it's good to be like, hey, just so you know, if there is anything wrong, just tell me, I don't mind. Yeah. I guess, I check.

Yeah, yeah. But that is literally the conversation. You have that conversation all the time. Yeah, yeah. Because you, like, I don't, yeah. There are like, there are people that, you know, was like, okay, we'll go for a take now. Okay, thank you.

Yeah. People like that. Like, that's fine. But I guess maybe like my style, like my style right now at least is like, yeah, I'm just happy to be here and I just, you know,

I want to make the, I'm just a mate. I haven't composed anything. Yeah. But they keep rehiring. Just tell me from being a dicker. Just tell me. Like, just we're going to sit down.

We're just going to play it through. There's any questions. I've, you know, I've done. my best to make sure that you guys have a good time. Yeah. And if you do a good time, like, I feel like you just, because I was explaining to this to you last night as well, like, there's a couple of thoughts of school about like how many takes you should do.

Right. And, you know, in certain countries, there'll be like one, two or three or four takes that you'll do a run through and then they'll be like, okay, we're done. Right. And then there's other times where, there's other types of composers where you'll basically, like, do like multiple takes. even like what would be considered potentially unnecessary takes just to get like different kind of like permutations

and certain phrases. Right. So you can cut together and kind of do like kind of different things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm in that second part. I was going to say. I'm in the second part, which is really not economical,

but at the same time, there have been like more than cap, there's been countless times where I've been able to basically like create a really cool sort of almost like a combination or like an out amalgamation. Amalgamation? Amalgamation. Yeah, amalgamation.

Yeah. of like different takes where like you know I was like oh like bar 34 beat four the cello like kind of slipped a little bit on that one note right and it sounds a little fucked up

but let's cut that in because I like the fucked upness yeah yeah yeah go back to like this other take which is a bit more clean something of that and then let's bring in this sort of thing the more you're telling you about the more stressed out I'm getting like what if you know because if you have like you said you had

three of each instrument earlier what if like one guy's just sick doesn't turn up or like that's not the thing Not a thing? It shouldn't be. What if someone's, they've got to fly over the visa gets delayed or something and it's like, oh crap,

we need to find out the guy. Like this sounds like I'm getting stressed out. They're messing all these moving parts. If it makes you feel better, they're already there. Okay, okay. They're already there. These guys do that day and in that. If there was someone that was unable to come in

because they were sick or whatever, the next person's just there. Okay, right, right, right. Just wondering how this whole process is. No, no, I mean, okay. So in that case, you're hiring, you're hiring maybe not just a room. but there'll be what's called a fixer, an orchestral fixer.

You'll help get everything. Who is like, they organize everything. Because you don't know everyone. You really don't. Right. So you're coming into a situation where you're hiring a service. You're hiring the studio and you're hiring. Normally, there's more times than none, I've seen that the studio and the, like, musician hiring service are one and the same.

Right. They come hand in hand. So if you're hiring the studio, have you got musicians? No. okay, use the person that fixes all our right, that makes sense. And then they'll say, okay, well, we need X amount of, yeah, we need X amount of woodwind this and then let's say,

you know, someone doesn't rock up, they just make a phone call and I've seen it happen. Like it's, it's like, oh, something didn't happen. Can you come in? Yep, great. See in 10 minutes. Wow. Right.

Wow. You just kind of, like, you can tailor the session. And I, like, unless there's a request for them to use their own conductor, I always get up my own stuff. Yeah. We have a lot more control. I'm a bit control freaky, so. Right.

So I'm sure we all appreciate it. Yeah, of course, of course. We all appreciate being very, very anal about control. Yeah. But, yeah, just like, let's say, for example, like, you're missing a cell. I'm just using an example. I'm just using an example. You know, cello, you know, cellos falls down and, you know.

Exploers. Yeah, let's go. Yeah. You're about to say some real shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I could feel something that was coming out there.

I was like, let's not go there. No, sorry microphone. So, yeah, let's say like cellas is suddenly, you know,

explodes. Just like Thanos snaps out. Yeah, that was a very good snap. That was a very good snap. That was a firm snap. Ah, do you know why?

Conducting is you to go one, two, three, four. Why were you shocked by your own snap?

Yes. I can conduct. I have the power. This is high episode is going to win this tangent. Honestly. What was they saying? So the Chellis Explorne. So the Chellis Exploids. Let's say, okay, let's quickly switch over to like a different, let's switch over to like just a violin and viola.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only track for like 10 minutes. Okay, let's record that. Great. Finish that. Welcome back, Chellis. Let's go back to that. that makes it.

Right, right, right, right. You have to keep, like, working through it. Yeah. You work in tandem with what's called a session producer, which is basically someone in the booth. If it's not you, like the composer can produce their own session if they are hiring a conductor to conduct.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you've decided to conduct yourself, you work in tandem with a producer or maybe two producers in the booth saying, yep, we've got that take. No, don't be a psychopath about that. Move on, please, sort of thing. Yeah, right, right.

You can get in your own head, especially you conduct. Yeah, exactly. Okay, yeah. Actually, I remember you saying, like have we got it have we got it like in a video when you were talking about how you have to i think you were on the scene like you it's like the boys club or something like that and you were talking about how you're doing takes of interviews and stuff and then you're like have we got it

do we need to go again yeah like that sort of uh what would be the word nervousness about okay do we actually have the content yeah not have the content do we need to go again and that yeah yeah right it's important yeah but if you're filming it and you're also you know in the shot yeah then you've got to go back yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah mind but but having someone behind the camera or in this case in the recording booth saying no we got it as chill let's move on yeah that kind of moves grease like nice reinforced it's like it's like I guess the they I mean they they should but like the cameraman he's like getting the shot but he doesn't necessarily give a shit if it doesn't look great sometimes it depends like I would avoid that

yeah I would recommend and it's also sometimes you they don't know what kind of short that you want, you know, as like, normally there's with a director. They don't have as much investment as, like, say, someone you hire to be invested. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you're hiring a session producer, they should. Right. So you're hiring someone who's like, his job is to be as invested as you. Right. Yeah. So, but obviously, not everyone will be. Because otherwise, he's just a guy at the boot.

No, I do see what you're coming from now. So there are times when someone is just saying, okay, have we got the, you know, the standard thing? They'll be like, yeah, we got it. Yeah, we got it. Yeah. You go back and you're like, you didn't have it. But then that would be hopefully where you could, that would maybe way experience gets in and you say, no, we're going to go against. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

At the end of the day, you kind of drive and train. Right. People are really supporting you. People are there doing their job. But between you and maybe like the music supervisor or something like that, you guys are driving that train. Yeah. You've got to be like on it. And this is where it's not just a physical job.

It's also super mental. Yeah. Because you've got to focus on not only if you're especially conducting, you have the physicality of making sure, okay, cue that person in, keep on going like that. Yeah, you come in, you come in, beat three, blah, blah, blah, but you know, so you're queuing people, even though you can do it. But, you know, through the physical act of conducting is not just about keeping tempo, which to be fair, everyone's got a click on the air. It's really matter too much. But what it's about is coaxing more performance out of it. Yeah. Like you're basically just like micromanaging.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hopefully in like in a positive way. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's like, for example, if I'm going like this to you, I'm like, okay, sing, thing, sing, sing. And then, okay, on that, okay, on that, last one, then it's like, sing more. Yeah. Right. Like, do it again. Like, sounds like constipated.

But at the same time, it's like, okay, that should hopefully coax a little bit more, you know, push a little harder. So if you're, if you're doing that at the same time, you're also listening to everyone else in your headphones or in the room, making sure that everyone else is playing at at the same time. Yeah. So you're doing that over and over again for nine hours a day. Yeah.

So, like, you take everything you just described, how much. how many more layers of difficulty has been added on with COVID. I was going to ask this. And having to do things remotely. That sounds like a nightmare in person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

There's a reason that if you see me like in the room, I'm like a sweaty mess because it is like super intensive. In the in this like in the COVID times, it's been interesting because depending on where you are, it's actually a little more convenient in terms of the time difference because obviously it's like so far in front of everywhere. So if you're recording in America, it's quite nice because it's sort of like an early morning thing and I became a bit of an early rise in COVID,

at least for a time until something was very not an early rise. But in Europe, it's kind of interesting. We did a lot of recording in Prague, some Budapest. During the pandemic. During the pandemic. And for an upcoming project, we did a little recording in America as well. Right. But, yeah, normally for Europe, it's normally like an Australian nighttime sort of recording.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You kind of sit down at like 7, 8 o'clock at night and then you do six, seven hours. So you kind of finish like 2, 3 o'clock in the morning. So you're on call with people who are just in a big hall. Yeah, so they basically just stream the audio on audio movies and Zoom. Yeah, to be honest, like, it's actually not bad. Really? Yeah, but what if it, like, lags halfway through, like, a recording, right?

Yeah. Because like, fucking classic Australian internet just crashes. Yeah. I was about to say, I'm like, it must be shit.

Yeah, it's like, because yeah. Just like, oh, Kevin's connecting. Yeah. It's like, why is our conductor

in like a fourth, like, 480P? Like, I can barely see him. At that point, you're not conducting. Yeah.

That was what was really nice about like going back to Sydney for a couple of projects. Sorry, going back to Sydney, going to Sydney for a couple of projects.

Uh, because like, yeah, Melbourne Sydney's like an hour and a half on the plane and stuff. That's pretty cool. But yeah, to finally get back to conducting for Star Wars was really cool. That was the first time I'd done it.

I forgot because the muscles just like just like go away. To conduct? Yeah, because like try doing this for like nine hours. Right. Yeah. It's very like just the right arm. You're like quag by. It's like, what's up when you're up?

I'm a conductor. I swear I'm a conductor. We were talking about carpal tunnel in jazz. jump king before, but like, it's like that before your entire arms. Yeah. It's my god. He's left hair and it's so they're going. It balances out.

Oh my God. Never just post-pandem it. It's just arms are huge and nothing else. Perfectly balanced. All things should be. Nah, it's like, so, uh, yeah, I forgot how like, like physically intensive it was. So I was just sat there like, because I, um, because what you normally. normally meant to it's like maybe be a little bit reserved in like moving your arms

and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But like you're getting into it. It's like fucking so much stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Then all of a sudden you're moving your entire body doing like Zumba.

Yeah. Yeah. Like quite a few hours. Jesus. Yeah. It's a little interesting. It sounds really intense. Yeah.

So like speaking was, oh sorry. No, no. I have nothing of value to say. It's literally told for an hour and a half. It was like that was all just bansper. Like that was really. Literally talking about. Let me be talking to like an anime composer

composed of some of the bigger shows in like the past few years I literally have nothing of value to say So Star Wars How was how was that like Really cool How did like how is it like the news came in to be like Can you compose a piece of like

Music for Star Wars media? Because I'm assuming like Great honor Like you know obviously it has the history of history Yeah And just to be able to kind of obviously so star was visions is uh an animated um series for based in the universe star was and i did one of those one of those um episodes did the the episode four called a village bride right and um what what i really liked about it is that um star was visions uh our episode

explored like some really cool like spiritual um and biblical shunnel i was waiting for that word I'm like, where is it? I got to jump back. No, it explores some really nice concepts with the Force, which was just, I mean, I grew up watching that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I watched the original trilogy with my dad, and then my dad and I watched the prequels.

And then they did watch the sequels as well, of course. But, yeah, it was, it was really, it was really nice to sort of have, like, one hand in, like, sort of that aesthetic world. At the same time, we're exploring certain, like, spiritual aspects, especially considering like the backdrop is, um, it's very like sort of Kyoto-esque. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like to have, um, to have like the ability to use like traditional Japanese instruments. So we use show, we use Koto, we use Shukhachi and we did a Shinobu

as well. And so we recorded those in Tokyo, recorded, um, orchestra in Sydney, put them all together. But to, especially, especially that the, uh, the show is a, is a, is a, wow. What was that? Show it is the mouth organ. It's a, it's a, I mean, I'm very, very oversimplifying it to say that it's everything. I've never heard of this. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know.

And then when Kevin said it's a mouth organ, I was this close to being like, no, it's not. So you blow into a small, like a giant amount sort of like giant amount. Thanks, Kevin. Giant amount. A large amount. A large amount of bamboo pipes. You've definitely seen it before Yeah

Right Yeah Yeah It's a It's part of Temple culture a lot Yeah I can't

Yeah I mean you would have heard I would have heard it I would actually heard it But it's like 12 to 14 sort of individual little pipes

Right blow into it You can blow in And like blow in and out Right To create sort of a very very Yeah this thing

This thing Have you seen this thing? Oh I've seen that Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's a very complex, very beautiful sort of cluster of notes that create a very, very, very dense, very specific core. And all these chords have very, very, very special meaning. So first of, obviously, you know, as an Australian, you got to really, really wanted to be very careful about that. And, you know, there's been, I mean, there's always a bit of an attitude in Australia when it comes to using Australia's indigenous instruments, which is you, you don't want to fuck this up. You don't want to be that person that has really disrespected a very, very important and very sacred instrument.

And so that mentality I've carried, like I've been lucky enough to use like sort of Australian instruments in the past. And it's always been in very explicit collaboration with First Nations people because I'm not going to use that instrument on my own. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I have the necessary. I don't, I can't do that. Yeah.

And so even though I, I am Australian I want to make sure that when it comes to Japan's instruments it's the exact same approach Yeah, yeah Very very like calculated in a good way Like sort of, you know, talk to the musician

Saying what is okay, what isn't okay What are you happy with? Are you not happy with? What is natural? What is unnatural? Those sorts of things. What are you having? Thankfully like the musician,

especially the show player Is phenomenal And was very, very, very open to just sort of discussing Okay, what does and doesn't work. These are the chords. These are sort of like the core chords that you can't like that that you know come on like the Yeah it has like different systems. It's very very interesting. So it it basically you you have like different combinations of notes that

They have like a different kind of it works actually on the circle it works on a not a pendulum sorry Like a circle of fits type of thing. Yeah, but not first circle of chords but then all of them have different meanings and stuff like that I really hope I'm not bastardizing this as well. But like, I wouldn't know. No, no. You promise I know. No, no. But basically what happens if we did a lot of workshopping and just said, okay, how do we make

sure that like, is this good? Is this okay? Right. How I'm going, sort of thing. Yeah. Is that like, sorry, because I'm going to be inderance on this. You're saying like, is that good as in like, if you were to use it incorrectly, it would be disrespectful?

Well, it might not like, I don't know. But the problem is I don't. no. Right. Right. And I'd rather like, you don't want to overstep the boundary just in case. Yeah. I'd rather ask too many questions and just like yeah, yeah. Or to be just said, nope, don't worry about it. It's great. It's fine. Don't worry about it. But that's not my permission to give. Yeah. Yeah. Once I've received it, then I feel, okay, let's, now we can record. Now we can actually work with these instruments. And obviously, like, being commissioned to do something, which is anime, obviously Star Wars as well, but like doing something that is anime. Yeah. And in this case has a very specific relationship. to Japan and its instruments. That's super important for me to make sure that like, you know, I get that right.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to, yeah. I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't really don't. Yeah. Is it, is there ever like a difficulty when you're working on a property that has had so much history and previous works that you could kind of get lost in inspiration with? I mean, yeah, it's not an easy one. Right.

I mean, Star has a lot of music, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. as a lot of the best music because I guess you're just like naturally going to be compared to the likes of like John Williams right? So it's like it's yeah but you don't want to sound too much like that either right yeah. Because you have listened

there's no way you have not listened yeah yeah yeah right. I'm listening what you have yeah yeah yeah but like I mean thankfully because it's animated actually because it's not live action you actually we almost in a way had a little bit more freedom yeah because we were

trying something new and that was one of the ethos, ethos, ethos, ethos. That was the ethos of, um, of the show. Well, he's the, you know, um, that was one of the, um, sort of the, the core sort of, yeah, yeah, um, concepts of, of the show was to, you know, obviously be in the universe, but then to explore it in this, in a medium that, you know, I've been not only lucky enough to be part of, but I really do genuinely love. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause like, I remember, like, watching that episode and I was like, of course, I got a support. my boy, Kevin. I'm going to watch Star Wars visions. And I remember going to this episode. And I was

just like, this is like definitely Star Wars, but this is like such a Kevin Star Wars. And like, I don't know, like, I'm not like well versed enough in like musical lingo to be able to like break down what makes it a Kevin Star Wars. It just felt like a Kevin Star Wars, like Kevin take on the Star Wars, you know, universe and just, you know, the iconic music as well. Is that something you do unconsciously. Like, you have a kind of signature almost to your music.

That's a good question. I'm not actually even sure. Like, you know, I think regardless of whether you, like, aimed a daughter or not, I think you've achieved it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think that when people listen to your music without knowing you thought, or they have heard real previous works, they can identify. Yeah.

Another one of your work. Yeah, because actually, I didn't even know that you did the music for that episode, but as soon as, like, the episodes start playing, I'm like,

this is Kevin. I already know. I know my boy. Yeah. Um, I may, I may gravitate towards certain cluster courses, put it out way. I don't know.

Like, I wouldn't know how to put my finger on it. I wouldn't know how to do that. But I think in a way, like, it's both a very endearing thing to hear. And at the same time, I'm like, okay, how could I, how can I not do that? Yeah, how can I not do that? Surprise, what the fuck. How can I do that next time? So it's almost like, no, because I, it's a great thing to hear.

And I am happy to hear at the same time, I'm like, okay. I do eventually want to, it sounds a bit fucking wanky, but like, I want to evolve. Yeah, of course. And I kind of transcend.

No, that's too far. You get a little bit too biblical then. Well, he's the Russian sent forth. Well, I mean, one,

you have to evolve in every, every, yeah, of course, yeah, you got to stand top. Yeah, I mean,

because as, as we were mentioning before, I just turned 30 and so I started, like, putting together, like, the list of, okay, what do I want to do in, like, the next 10 years? Like, what I want to do between 30 and 40?

And one of them is, like, just to, like, I want to learn to sing again. Because I used to sing, and I used to not be totally shit at it. And now I just, now I sound, like, pretty sure, like, if, like, bit out of practice. Yeah, let's just say if, like, the cat was angry and screeched, it would still sound better than what my, what my voice would sound like in my head. I feel like you're being, you're being dramatic. Yeah, you'll be fine.

Like, knowing you, Kevin, you're probably a lot better than what you think. I think that's just your musician side saying. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, so, like, I want to sing again. I want to, like... We've got to go to karaoke to find out, don't we? Let's fucking go. No, like, like, singing and I want to, like, kind of try a few different musical ideas.

I would be really nice to do, like, a personal album the first time. Like, I've never really released, like, a personal album, like, personal music. Right, right, right. It's always been, like, for the last, you know, as far as I can remember, like, in terms of my professional. life it's always been to a project which is fucking awesome but at the same time I feel like you know what in the next 10 years it'll be good to like really create something like

that's just you yeah yeah yeah me I gotta figure that what that is as well because like I don't know what I am welcome to being in your 30s mother yeah good luck shit I'm sweating I got a little while I got a little while

yeah but no I'm not like that's like that you know that's really respectable though like I Like I think as, you know, because all of us right now are in kind of the creative field, regardless of if it's different types of creative feels like. I think we can all, you know, kind of, you know, kind of empathize with that like feeling right. I'm like, yeah, you know, you want to get yourself out there and trying to spread your wings out as much as possible creatively, right? I mean, look how much you've grown as well.

Like, look at your channel and look at your hundred and how it's developed. I mean, all three of you. I mean, like, look at this podcast. I mean, last time we caught up, but it didn't exist. And now it's this, your personal channels as well. We watch them all the time. And it's like we watch the old content, watch the new stuff. It's, I mean, all of it's great, but it is so lovely to see how it has changed in the ball.

Yeah, likewise, man. Likewise. Likewise with your stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so sorry. Gentlemen, all men strive for gold in their life, right? Gold medals, gold watches, gold everything. However, there is a certain type of man that goes the extra mile in life. He walks with the confidence of an eagle and giggles in the face of danger. He's big, hairless, and a winning machine. And when he unzips his pants, he sees platinum. That's right, Manscape would like to introduce to you

their biggest, most ultimatest package. The Platinum package 4.0. Join the 4 million men worldwide who trust Manscape by going to Manscape.com for 20% off, plus free shipping with code Trash Taste. The Manscape brand new Platinum Package 4.0 is the biggest bundle they've ever offered

giving you a bulk discount on Manscape's top product. That includes the lawnmower 4.0, of course. The weed whacker. Two in one shampoo and conditioner. Deodorant. The crop preserver and all. also the crop reviver and anti-chafeing boxes. So if you want 20% off and you want to get free shipping,

use our coupon code, trashtaste, at Manscape.com. That's 20% off plus free shipping by using our coupon code trash taste at Manscape.com. Back to the episode. So I guess while we wrap this up, I got to ask, like, what do you want to explore next? Because you always say you want to do something new. What's like something that you haven't done yet that you want to do?

Like musically speaking? Yeah, like musically speaking. I was going to meme for a second. Yeah. How good Burger King Burger King. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't talk about the impossible here. To go to the source.

Well, yeah, I mentioned, like, the personal album thing. I think what I want to do is expand, which is the best way to describe it, I think. Right. Like, you know, I'm, I don't mean this in any sort of, like, shitty braggadocia sort of way. I am very happy with what I've been able to achieve so far. Yeah. I've turned 30. Like, these wonderful projects.

I've met wonderful people. I'm part of a wonderful sort of industry and community. I've got friends and family and all the sorts. Like, I'm good. I'm a happy boy. Yeah. I think balance, if anything, is what I want to achieve next. Yeah.

I feel like, you know, the next is like, you know, it's been like, the pandemic can go suck a massive fat bag of donkey dicks. Yeah. Like, but it put a lot of things. I'll be bold statements. But, you know, it did put a lot of things in perspective because, like, you know, you could work hard and hard and hard and that's fine for a while. eventually like you know not only does your body tell you like you know you got to take better care

it's like yeah like i was mentioning i think maybe off camera but like yeah put it on a fucking load of weight yeah yeah rank too much i ate too much in the pandemic and like it was just a way to deal and fine we'll kind of get it it's not healthy now you weren't the only one yeah i don't feel like i'm like yeah i'm not breaking any fucking it's like you did what i think the statement's gonna come with a massive shock that was a fucking down during the pandemic. Right. Yeah.

I'm very not unique to that. I was not the happy all the time. So yeah, I think the one thing that I've, you know, coming into quote, unquote, endemic, which. Endemic. Endemic. Is it everyone calling this? Is that a thing now? It's an Aussie thing?

No, it's called optimistic. Optimism. Optimism. Optimism. Fug optimism. So, yeah, I'm optimistically calling it endemic-e. And I'm calling it that because I'm sad here now. I'm on the show.

That's not, that's not an Aussie thing, by the way. That's like Kevin thing. It's like, let it be so. Yeah. But like I'm, I'm really keen to like just kind of get life back and just feel fucking as normal as best as possible. Like,

you know, I want like the day of day to be really productive at the same time. Like I want like I live in Melbourne now. I moved back to Melbourne because I really wanted to be closer to community and family. Yeah. And I miss, fuck me. I miss Australia so much when I was living here.

And that's why I moved back. Yeah. But, you know, Melbourne's like a beautiful city to be. And even though we had all these crazy lockdown stuff, like I'm really happy there. It's a beautiful base. But it is nice to just fuck off and go to Japan and go to America and go to London. It comes to London, I should say. Yeah.

So, you know, that almost is like it's such a pleasure to be here right now because it is a bit of a recharge. And people still, I mean, there are some countries that still can't do that. Yeah. You know, so you've got to really take it, you know, you got to really think of it. that's right now pretty, pretty lucky in the context of the fact that we are going through a fucking pandemic still. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, balance is what I want to achieve. Yeah. Between, you know, lifestyle, friends,

professionality. Yeah. Work ethic. Work quality as well. Like, obviously, I don't know how the, you know,

it would be nice to potentially go back to school. Like, not like school, but like, you know, I've tried to learn in Korean a little bit and still trying that. Yeah. I've had to kind of,

you know, pick my battles in terms of, trying to like learn more stuff. I like the idea of just trying to expand a little bit and try things. Try a little bit of streaming in like mid-2020 or late-2020, a little bit of mid-2020. I kind of like put it on the back burner because I just got really, really busy with, you know, some of these projects. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't miss that.

I didn't miss the streaming. It's good fun. You know, just like live composing or like playing all games. Like, you know, like I want to. to play Metro Prime if it comes out and a hell yeah hell yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm gonna play shadow the colossus yeah like that's a fun thing to like all games that have amazing music yeah yeah yeah right right this is why I like them yeah I was like yeah I mean but you know just like playing games that like really

important to me on the stream or like composing music in front of a like audience that it almost activates the different part of the brain yeah yeah um actually I guess you can relate it to like concert creation offline and online. Right. Right. Live, I should say. Yeah. So, yeah, expansion.

Expansion and balance, I think is, yeah. Expansion. Expansion. Like, such a... Yeah, I'm British. I will the expand. Yeah. I mean, like, we've wanted to have you on since basically, like, the beginning of the podcast.

Yeah. We were like, who would be the most perfect guest for a show like this? The mate Kevin. Yeah. I'm mate Kevin. I have some bad takes you. I can commit. And we've had like...

So bone and chicken. Oh, fucking boneless, mate. Come on. Yes. Come on. Yes. It's good.

Dude, I'm sorry. It's my boy. You have Korean fried chicken. Do you want bone chicken or do you want like a fucking mat? I'm leaving. I believe this is like, you know what? It's been a fantastic episode. We'll bond together.

We'll bond together. Look, I appreciate that you've come to terms a little bit better on bread. I do respect that you are getting better. Just as a person. Yeah. I'm just saying that, what do you want to achieve in your 30s? And why is it boneless? I want to expand.

The expansion. World domination. The 30s expansion. What can I say, man? But yeah, I mean, like, yeah. We've like had to, I guess, like, fucking move mountains to get you on because we're not filming in Australia. We're not filming in Japan.

We're filming in fucking the UK. You know, which neither of us even live in. It's a weird detour. Yeah, yeah. It's a weird, weird detour, but it's nice that we are able to make this happen. Finally. Finally. Hey, like, hopefully, like when Japan decides not to, you know.

Please come back because we've gone two hours and somehow we've not talked about Ulong High, Oolong, Dime. We're not going to, by the way. That's the next time. That's the next time. This is the sober conversation. This is like the pre-convo. Yeah, yeah. Next time you come on.

Second episode is going to be Oolong High. Yeah, this is the thing. It's like, this is season one. This is the conversation we should have had in the old studio. Now I've got to come to the new studio. Yeah. We've done one call. We've done one call.

Honestly. We'll do 1.5% more alcohol. Hell yeah. But yeah, I guess we'll leave it there for the time being. You know, obviously we're going to get you back eventually in Japan. perfectly was a little bit more booze and a little bit more bands, yeah. But yeah, but hey, in the meantime, we're trying not to talk about fucking synthesizers for like three hours.

Oh, man. We've only talked to them. Let's see which ones I get between now and there. Yeah. We'll hear your top ten synthesizers list pretty soon. I've got a list. I've got a fucking list, man. Actually, do you know, no.

Tell me off camera. I'll tell you at dinner. But hey, look at all these patrons, though. These amazing, lovely patrons. Look at them, Kev. Look at them. They're floating by. Oh my God.

It's so many of them. Who's your favorite? That one, that one, that one, that one, that one. Oh, that one. We're done. I was like, God damn it. But, uh, hey, if you like to support the show, then go over to our Patreon. Patreon.

Patreon. Also, follow us on Twitter. Send us some memes on the subreddit. And if you hate our face, listen to us on Spotify. And hey, go check out Kemp stuff. Wait, is there anything you want to shout out, by the little? I do the Twitter's, uh, and obviously like, Made in the Biss is coming up in July. Which I'm so fucking part.

Oh, yeah. We didn't talk about made in the best team. Maybe next time. Maybe next time. It'll be out by hopefully like next time we like hang out. So we can finally talk about it in depth. Yeah, we've got a couple of things gone. But most of them.

Yeah. It's like, think of it is like there's like a little pinpoint on your head with a sniper rifle at the end of it. And you know, you're just like, oh, I'm going to talk about. Yeah. It just doesn't happen. Yeah.

I'm ready to be depressed. Hey, yeah. Welcome to club, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. A little too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, yeah, thanks for coming on, Kiv. My pleasure. Thank you to all. And on the final night, I just want to say thank you to all three of you both personally. And, you know, it's been nice. A live. What a fucking lad.

What a fucking lad. Love you all. That's our man's right there. The most wholesome ending to trash this episode. Thank you for doing what you do it. Yeah, of course. Likewise, man. Oh, you're going to cry?

You're going to cry? Are you going to cry? Thank you for helping both of us through this because it's been a really bad pandemic It's nice to Oh Sorry, I don't know I don't know

I don't like maybe if I got like fucking drunk I'm like I didn't expect it to be like sober But seriously, thank you for doing what you do It really helps It's really nice every Saturday to come like wake up And watch your trash days It's lovely to see your content

We will So thank you for Thank you for doing what you do because it does. Right. You know, man. Likewise, man. Made for life, man. Made for life.

I'm just happy that I'm going to hang out again, man. I'm so fucking happy, man. Can I please have a drink? That's the end. Bye.