Trash Taste Podcast - We Got Tattooed by Japan's Best Anime Tattoo Artist (ft. Hori Benny) | Trash Taste #297

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

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Welcome back to another episode of Trash Taste. I'm your host, Connor. Jordan wants to get by the boys, Jerry and Garn. And today we have a very special guest. Yes. Horrie Benny himself. Tattoo extraordinaire. Man, nice to finally meet you guys.

Yeah. Nice to meet you. I should have hyped it up more. I'm so sorry. No, it's all good, man. So I know that Joey, out of the three of us, the only one with tattoos. Yes.

And you did one of Joey. I did, yeah. Yeah, indeed last year. I personally, I've always felt like I can't see myself having a tattoo. But whenever I see anyone else, I'm like, that looks so cool. Sure, sure. But I'm really fascinated to learn more about it, the history of X.

I know you've been doing it in Japan for a while as well. Yeah, for a minute. So I imagine that it's going to be, it'd be nice to hear some of your stories as well. Yeah. How do we kick this all off? I mean, tell us about yourself and how you got into it. Man, like, it's kind of hard to know where to start because I've been here for so long. Yeah. How long have you been in Japan for now?

God. Can I swear in this show? Of course. Of course. Say whatever you want. Yes. Okay. I've been in Japan for like 24 years.

Whoa. For a minute. And then I visited a couple times before I came to live here. But like I think 2001, I think is like the year I came to. Oh, damn. Yeah, yeah. Well, you look so young. Why, thank you.

Before the internet, it visits me. I think you're like same ages as me. Oh my God. No, no, dude. I'm like, I'm like, I'm moving from Unk into G. I didn't know there was a level beyond. I didn't know that. There is.

I'm the unc gatekeeper. Oh my God. The ultra unk. 24 years, though. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah. And then tattooing for about 22 of those. In Japan for 22.

Yeah, yeah. So I didn't tattoo in the United States. I only tattooed in Japan. So I didn't even get into tattooing until I came here. Dan, how did you get into Japan? Because Japan notoriously, it's quite a hard place to get into doing tattooing. I feel especially back then as well. Yeah.

Definitely not a straight line. Like, you know, I think, I mean, again, this is back when dinosaurs ruled the earth. Like, I was like, I was like, I just want to go to Japan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember, like, in those days, too, that you didn't really have, like, YouTube at your fingertips to like, or TikTok videos to like, yeah, to tell you, like, what it's like to even go to a foreign country, let alone like what the customs are.

Sure. Like, anime was way more niche back then. Yeah, yeah. And so, like, I want to just go and like get that experience. And I'd been studying Japanese and I'm like, I don't even care. I just want to go and like, check it out. Maybe I'll try to teach English for like half a year. And then it's, now it's been like 25 years.

So how did you initially, like what job did you have when you initially came to Japan? My first job was English teaching. English teaching. Yeah, yeah, I was an ALT on the jet program. Right, right. So you know, when they never change. Yeah, yeah.

The dinosaurs when they had the first English, English dinosaur that came over. Yeah, I keep waiting for them to send me that letter for one of those like jet conferences, like where are they now? Like, what can jet? Yeah. That's like half the appeal. People want it.

as a gateway, right? They want to have it as a jumping off totally. I'm sure the moment I left jet, they were like, thank God he's gonna. What a pariah. He's tattooing people out. My goodness. So you did the jet thing for how long,

like the first year or two, I guess? So I did it for two years. And I was gonna do it for like only one. And then I renewed and then like kind of after I renewed. I'm like, okay, like I think I'm kind of ready to move on from this. Yeah, right. Also too, like it's a, I was stationed on a small island

in Kagoshima. Oh, wow. Which, you know, islands are awesome. Yeah. Well, some islands, not other islands. The islands of Kagoshima are super-less. Yeah, yeah. But when you're, you know, like, in your very early 20s, you know, you can only look

at so many palm trees and drink so much Shochoo before you're like, okay, like, I think I want to live in the city, do some other things. Like, everyone, the youngest person on your island is like 88 years old. Not quite. Not quite. Yeah, not quite the 20s life. Yeah, not exactly what I'd imagine. So at that time, I had started, because, like,

every weekend, like, it would be like Friday at 3 o'clock and I would be hitting the ground running to get like into a city. Yeah, right. And I wouldn't be coming back until like Monday before class. Right. So I do like that, you know, like, oh, like you're going to Kagoshima City. Well, I would go kind of like wherever I could go from this. So Kagoshima City was the easiest because it was like a three hour drive. Right.

But we would go to like Kumamoto and Fukoka. What was the island's name that you were? It was Nagashima. So it's a small island that's actually between Amaksa, which is Nagasaki. and the rest of Kagoshima proper. Right, right. So, yeah, it's a little tiny island. Yeah, it translates to Long Island,

but it's very different. We can pull the map of where it is as well, just so we can get a little. Is it where Nagoshima Sparanda is? Or is that somewhere else? I don't think so, although there was a couple of really famous Goeimon Budo. Yeah, right, right.

Yeah, where is this one? Yeah, where is not even showing up on Google. It's like, uh, where do I find this place? You're like almost there, dude. Like, I'm excited at the bottom. there go down. Yep. Oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. Okay. Oh, wow. Oh, right, right. That does not look like that. That does not look. That looks too small. Yeah, that looks tiny. That's the wrong. Oh, dude. It's down below. I'm pinching. Oh, I see. I see. I see it.

Oh, I see it. Oh, there it is. There it is. There is. Wow. Could you drive onto this island from? So they built a bridge eventually. Yeah. So that wasn't there when you were there. They had like just finished, I think. That's a crazy flex. There was no bridges when I was there. Oh, my goodness. No, there was. No, there was. No, it was the talk of the island. Let me tell you. They built a convenience store. They built a Lawson's 45 minutes away, like, on the mainland, and people were just, like, ecstatic. I cycled, when I did a cyclophons where I cycle around Japan, and I did one around Kushu, and we went through Izumi. Yep. And I remember Izumi was, like, famous for, they had, their local thing,

or they had this museum that they're in very early time, Japan, they got their smartest kids and sent them off to, like, America. Like, they've gathered the smartest kids in the, from from like the all of like the local areas and set them off and it was set this museum was really interesting because it was like uh you must tell me about it apparently all the kids went on to do like exceptional things right uh in america yeah right but very early on they sent before there was any kind of real communication huh i don't recall meeting any of those kids but i still's really interesting sorry but that's so cool there that's wow then they built um they built uh the shin-consson when i was there so they were still building the tracks and you know me wanting to get kind of

yeah farther away on my weekends i'm right please god finis finish the Kagoshima Shinkansen. But it was a big deal when they opened it. They opened Kagoshima station and the whatever was all happy. Yeah, yeah. They retired like, you know, some of the old trains. And then, you know, like all the train guys are out there with their cameras like crying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In, you know, in solidarity, I bought one of the models. Oh. Yeah, the train I used to ride and stuff. Hell yeah. But yeah, we would try to, you know, kind of get out of there pretty much every weekend and go check things out. And then once in a while I'd get up to like Osaka or Tokyo on a special occasion. And that's when I started meeting like some Japanese tattoos. Right.

And getting to know kind of more about their world and stuff like that. Because when I was on the jet thing, you know, like, it was fun for what it was when I was doing it. But like, I think really realistically, like three or four months into it, I was like, okay, well, what is going to come next for me? Like when this is over. And that was kind of when the compass needles sort of started pointing to tattooing because I would like, it was such a a contrast to the Japan that you read about in textbooks. Remember, again, for context, like, there's no YouTube to tell you, like, what Japan is like. Yeah, for sure.

There's a couple, like, web pages or forums. There's a new thing called a blog. Oh. Oh, my God. Anyway, yeah. So there'd be these, like, like, you know, little hints you would get at it. But then, like, yeah, there's this idea that Japan was a very straight lace that it was just, you know, these salary men walking around bumping into stuff.

And it was, like, Godzilla. And, like, that was kind of it. And so when you actually came over here and, like, started meeting. you know, like these tattooers and like going to shows and things like that. It was like this side of Japan that was like so wild. And like, you know, coming from the United States, I had no idea that Japan had things like that. So I was like, oh, wow, this is so cool. Like I'm hanging out at like these punk shows.

I'm going to these tattoo shops. Like look at me. I'm so cool. I have these cool things. Yeah. You know, I was 20. Right. Yeah.

But that was kind of when, you know, I would see people like doing their art and they weren't doing like graphic design or commercial art. They were doing art that they liked for people. that they liked, they were getting paid for it. And I was like, wow, like, this is the life for me. Yeah, right. Somehow. So that's when I started kind of making my plans to ask for an apprenticeship.

Right. Oh, wow. Oh, that's crazy. I'm sorry, I'm just going to, I think your mic needs to be a little bit closer. A little bit closer. Yeah, yeah. This is so, it's going to be very close. It's got to be in your face.

Okay. Because it's like, so what was the process of getting, like, an intern, non-intership or like an apprenticeship or like an apprenticeship or a tattoo? And is, was there a V-0 or something for that at the time? or is it a bit of finangling? You're like, yeah, well, finger it. Finangling is a good word. The visa categories are broad, you know.

They can be applied in many different ways. They have. And like things are a little, I keep saying this. I'm just going to say one last time. I'm going to say it's fine. It's a long ago. It was a long time ago.

Yes. Yeah, the immigration process was a bit different. It was more like human to human. I feel like. There was also like less people trying to get into Japan. Yes. So you would just walk up and talk to a person. And then they'd be like,

well, you look, okay, whatever, you know. Yeah, right. Usually the process of getting an apprenticeship is like you find artists that you like and you start hanging out with them or getting tattooed by them. And like eventually, you know, you get up the courage to put together some of your, you know, drawings no matter how terrible they are. You bring them in you and you're like, you know, I'm really interested in doing this. Would you be interested in teaching me?

At least that's traditionally how like apprenticeships went. I mean, I think, again, the internet has really changed this whole dynamic, of course. But that's kind of how it was. And so then there's a difference sort of two between what, like an American would think of as like a tattoo apprenticeship versus like how Japan would treat a Desi Shishu a master and apprentice relationship. Right.

So there was some cultural differences that I definitely, I was like not prepared for. Yeah, right. I did not know. Like I didn't realize like, remember in like spirited away where they're like, you know, here's your new outfit. Start scrubbing them floors. And she's like, when can I go home?

And they're like, your parents are pigs. You can't leave. And you're like, I was not as cute as Chihiro, but it was like something, like, probably you weren't ready for like all the other work you had to do.

No, no. I mean, there was not quite literal poop demons, but it was close enough. Like there was. Jesus. Someone's got to help, right?

Yeah. Someone's got to do it. No, yeah, exactly. And back in those days, I mean, yeah, there's like a lot of mopping of floors,

a lot of, you know, doing chores, a lot of like running by my tobacco, right? This is very showa. Yeah. So that's funny. Yeah.

So you, you're doing that apprenticeship for for how long until you finally starting to kind of able to start doing it yourself. So with apprenticeships in Japan, you're still kind of always considered an apprentice to your she show like that relationship is like, it's just always understood. Yeah. So but like, yeah, there's a period where, of course, like you start working, you start earning money, you start, you know, paying some of that money back.

And I think in my case, so I worked in that studio for about 10 years. So that's, I think, pretty typical. I think it was even typical of people older than me. If you can imagine such a thing, people older than me. Like, yeah, no, it's true. Like for like 20 years, right? I mean, really like, you know, paying it back, paying back all that skill that you got.

So there's this idea that, you know, of course, they're not paying you to be there either. So it's really like scraping by until you can finally start to get clients and pull yourself up a little bit. So did you know how to draw before you started the apprenticeship? Or did you kind of learn on the job? I would say I liked to draw. I didn't say I knew how, I mean, you know, just like a little kid doesn't really like know.

They know implicitly sort of how to draw, like that they like doing it. And so I always kept sketchbooks. It was just like something I enjoyed doing ever since I was like very little. It's like drawing is one of my first like memories. Yeah. So. But then once you kind of get into a world where you're like ostensibly going to do this for a living, right? Yeah.

Then you start inevitably comparing yourself to other people and seeing people who are in your industry and like how good they really are. And so I think, yeah, like when I walked in, I'm like, yeah, man, I'm going to kill it. I'm going to take over this town. Just keep me like three weeks. And then, you know, I'm like weeping an alley, nibbling on a discarded rice fall. You know.

So why tattooing and not any other kind of art form? I think just kind of going back to what we were talking about before, it was seeing the types of things that people were drawing, right? So I did have a, like, I did try when I was still in the United States to get into graphic design. This is kind of when during the first dot-com. com boom. Right.

Right. Right. Right. So they, no one had like degrees in anything. Yeah. But people were desperate to hire. Like, can you program HTML? Right. There was a lot of that. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, yeah. And like, you know, you'd grab a book and figure it out. And then like, now they call it like UIUX design. But back then it was just like, you know, a web designer, right? Or whatever. Like making little 3D buttons for web pages and stuff. So like, that's where I kind of started off doing it. And like, you know, it was like, fun enough. But then it was like, am I going to like lock into this? Is this going to be like,

is my future? This is my future. The movie Office Space had just come out. I mean, it was kind of, you know, I had this thing where like, I've never even into Japan. I've never even left the United States except for Canada. And so it was like, all right, like, I've got to make a change here. And so it was kind of like a series of steps. But just to answer your question, it was when you'd go into the studio and then you would see, you know, not only were people drawing like stuff that was cool.

Like what skulls and snakes and, you know, like, beautiful ladies, things like that. And then you'd see that tattoo flash up on the wall. And then you'd see people walking around. around with it. And then you'd go hang out with those people at like shows and, you know, go get drunk afterwards. And then it was like, wow, like this is the life. This is so cool. So it was like extremely attractive at the time. Yeah. Yeah. So like as someone who doesn't know much about tattoos, how did you even go about learning, you know, since you started off with like graphic design kind of, but how did you even go about learning enough, you know, skills and

confidence to start tattooing yourself? Oh, man. Like, I mean, so like everything, you break it into pieces and it comes in like little steps. So there is the component of drawing. Then there's like the technical component of tattooing. And then there's this entire other component that no one really thinks about until you're in it, which is like human relations that you are sitting in front of. It's not a canvas, right?

It's a human being. It's another person. And you're doing something that's going to be on that person's body for life. Like it's going to, you know, change them. Not to over traumatize it. But yeah, it's permanent. So, or for all intents and purposes, it's permanent. So, like, you have to sharpen all three of those, really.

And it helps if you, like, already like to draw. But then being able to draw something on a flat piece of paper is very different to, like, matching. Yes. It's not just, like, slapping a sticker on. Yes. It's like signing someone's t-shirt while they're wearing. It's impossible to, like, you suddenly look brown. It keeps moving around.

Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, a tattoo machine is also going to do-d-d-d-do-do-do. So you have to, yeah, be able to kind of control that on something with the consistency of jelly in 3-D. Yeah, it's like fighting back. person is yeah it depends on the person too like some people are they can just sit there like totally stoic like rocks and then some people they're like writhing yeah and so you have to kind of get into a little bit of like a coaching mode yeah you're a therapist you're you're an artist

a little bit all of it yeah yeah so um you know most people though like i mean they're they're they're there in the chair to get the thing done and so you just have to kind of like walk them the rest of the way so some people are like they're just like whatever you know it's it's not a big deal at all than other people, it's a bit more of a challenge. Oh, okay. Obviously, in Japan, it's like tattooing is such a topic that people always ask about. Like, my family is like, you know, they'll be like, oh, is it okay? If someone has a small tattoo, can I come in the onset?

It's always like a thing people worry about, and it's brought up a lot. And then you have to explain about tattoos. But then I also don't really, I don't fully understand why the tattoo rules apply to some people, why they don't apply to others, why someone's into have a problem, some do. Like, I guess from that perspective, because you've done it all in Japan, we're able to like shed some light into maybe the history of it and all the difficulties around it and stuff and the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, sure.

So Japan is an old country. Yeah, of course. The United States is not. And so it's a joke, one of my Japanese buddies ribbed me with. He's like, you know, what's history class like in your country? Is it like one week long? Anyway, all that is just to say, though, that like, of course, you know, America has a history of tattoo.

too. Most countries do. Like Polynesia's history of tattooing and Japan has a very interesting history of tattooing like their books written about it. I mean, and it's a long one. So it starts all the way back in the Jomon period where people are just doing you know like these very kind of

ritualistic and tribal type designs that we don't have a lot of records for because it's like ancient history. All the way up to when the Edo period starts Japan cuts itself off from the world and in that world in Edo and really all around Japan like it's like Uki-Oi prints, it's like kimono patterns, everything is just blossoming.

And people are figuring out like shape language and flows and motifs. And it's getting like codified almost. Right. And so like, oh, when you do this motif, you use this kind of pattern and so forth and so on. And like, you know, these like wind bars and like, you know, water stripes and things like the Mikiti of the tattoo. That changes from like not only family to family, like tattoo families, but also from like prefecture to prefecture.

Or this is really like almost before I think there were the prefectural systems. absolutely like the way they would tattoo it in Kyushu would be different from the way they would tattoo it, you know, up here in Kanto. So like, but again, like a lot of this stuff was, it was going overground and it was going underground. And there were periods of time like when it was illegal, like during the Meiji Restoration. And then there was like, you know, the Second World War. And then, you know, things radically changed in Japan, like all over the place. And then, you know, the Americans were stationed here. And then that was kind of bringing that culture back in. And then people just kind of like, honestly, there was like cultural tabooes that were made, but just in terms of like the law, um, things didn't really change for a long time until suddenly, I think in about 2010, there was like,

uh, an incident. Oh, the big case. Yeah. That was a big case. Yeah. Yeah.

So basically it was, it was a big case where a tattoo artist, and, and correct me on any information I miss, but, um, I believe there was something on the lines of there was a tattoo artist who essentially,

they implemented a law in Japan. where tattoo artists needed medical degrees. Yeah, I heard about this. Yeah, so there's a lot of particulars about this that, so what it really was was that there was more and more cases piling up against like art make. I don't even know what art make is in English. Yeah.

When people get like cosmetic, cosmetic tattooing. Yeah, right, right, right. Like permanent eyebrows. Yeah, so like, you know, people would just be basically like charging people obscene amounts of money doing crooked eyebrows and like absconding with their money. and like it was filling up the courts. Right. And so like the police started investigating it and peeling back the layers and then finding like,

well, these people are buying from these tattoo supply places. Well, who are these tattoo supply places? And what kind of stuff are they buying and who's buying it? And so they started subpoenaing that information and peeling back the layers. And then all of a sudden, this is I think when Hashimoto was the mayor of Osaka. And then it just became this cabal against tattooers. Like we're going to like shut this down. We're going to crush it out.

This is also about the same time that the same administration decided they were and get rid of all the clubs. They had this no dancing law. You know, like you can't dance after 12 a.m. What? Yeah. No,

they tried to do this to push all the clubs out of Shinsai Bashi. Yeah, right. To try to like clean it up. Right. Clean up and make it like more tourist friendly. Yeah,

yeah. This is anecdotal, but, you know, I lived through it and it was like bullshit. And some clubs survived, but a lot of them got pushed out. Right.

But the reason that I'm bringing that up is because they had this old law on the books, probably from a, the 1930s or 40s like they can't cut a rug at night or something like that. Yeah, right. So they were trying to do something akin to that where they brought up an old law like the technical letter of the law

is that you can't put a needle into somebody else unless you've got a medical license. Yeah, right. And so they picked up a tattooer in Osaka. They actually rated a few studios and they picked up a few people.

Oh shit. Yeah. So I was also brought in for questioning. by the police? Oh, fuck. Oh, yeah. That was fun for like, what are they all? You're like, I'm just, I'm just eating shit and even like in the corner. I just started. I was like, well, I mean, everyone kind of, well, because everyone's sort of hearing rumors about like tattoos, like what's going on. And so everybody was kind of waiting for this other shoe to drop. Yeah. And then they started this investigation and then they're like, we're going to start, you know, like punishing people. Well, then what happened was this case got escalated to the prefectural court.

then it got escalated to the Japanese Supreme Court. Yeah. And it basically was like, is tattooing a medical operation or isn't it? Like yes or no. Right. And so they were like, the Supreme Court of Japan was like,

no, it's not. Now that's the very, very short abridged version. There were Japanese constitutional lawyers involved in this. And I would encourage anybody who really wants to know the whole story to actually like look it up. But a lot of people try to talk about this case.

And I think it's like, oh, it was illegal, but now it's legal. Well, that's not quite right. I think it was unregulated. for a long time. And so this was, it was kind of a breath of fresh air for people that it happened because

you know, Japan also, its tattooing was underground for so long. You know, again, pretty much after the Meiji period and the people that were protecting that culture were the yakuza.

Yeah. Right? And keeping that alive. And like there isn't a lot of like written record. There's a few. I think everyone maybe knows like the famous guy who like was preserving the skins in Tokyo University. Oh yeah,

yeah. I'm blanking on his name. That is metal as fuck. Yeah. Preserving skin? Yeah. So he would flay these guys like after they died. What?

And yeah, he would preserve them. I think he had something like 75 of these like, what? Yeah, the office of body suits. Well, they're still in the,

the Tokyo Daikaku. That's crazy. He must have just gone to the families or then before they passed and was like, can I, can I have that? Yeah. Yeah.

To be fair, if you were a tattooer, I mean, why wouldn't you want someone to have the canvas? Let him have it, you know? I mean, you know, you're dead.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't need it. Like, how do you even start that conversation? Get me that. That would be bad. Does anyone you get a conversation with? I imagine it would be a tattoo and joy in a country that is, it's kind of a bit, you know,

oppressed to have a tattoo, right? Somebody's probably a bit more open-minded and it's like, yeah, okay, just take it. I mean, sometimes you hear about somebody in Japan who was like a crazy out-of-control hobby, like, or an obsession with trains or something. And this guy was, like, all about tattoos. And so he did all this, like, medical, like, you know, research on them and stuff. And they used to let you go there. check them out. Right. And then I think it was like in the 80s, some reporter went in there and was like,

I need to borrow one of these for like a story I'm writing or something happened where someone like stole. What? Yes, someone stole a couple of these skins. And then I was gone to, uh, university was like, all right, these things are going into like, however they store these things. I can't even imagine how they do it. The crier chambers. I know, because I called them. I was doing research for a book about 10 years ago. And I'm like, can I go and like photograph these and check them out? And they're like, no, we can't let you. Oh, damn. And I was like, but I. But I was like, but I. I was doing research for a book. I I'm a, I'm like, oh, I have. I have no credentials.

There's no reason to let me into your archives. Yeah, so that was it. Someone just walks in like they stole like a fucking coat or something. Yeah, right? So, you know, when that, when that call it out like Tom Cruise. Yeah. Yeah. He meets you with four, man.

So, where do you go? Don't never suspect me. Sorry, sorry, sorry. So I'm just going to the changing room quickly. My God. Cannibal lecture. So, you know, that court case. because I feel like he was like, was it like five years ago where that ruling finally happened?

Because it was, was it probably a long case? Because I feel like I remember a couple of years ago, we had the conversation. We were like, oh, it's like legal now. But I guess it was a misinterpretation of it was never not illegal. It was just challenged. And now it was proven to beat the. But has it changed at all since then? Has it become more accepted?

Has it, has it, has the vibes shifted at all in Japan with? Culturally, me? Or legally? I mean, culturally, culturally, like, I, so I remember in 1990. This was like when Japan had this like tattoo boom where for a while there was almost like a bifurcation between like traditional Japanese Eizumi and like a tattoo. Like a Western style tattoo. And then people would really, really make this hard distinction. And like so opening a public facing tattoo shop really almost didn't even happen until like after 1998.

Like a shop with tattoo flash where people could walk in and get a tattoo. So like it took a while for anyway, like it kind of kicked off this boom sort of. Right. People started getting tattoos. And then this is also when people were becoming, it was like, what is it? The three bees, beautician, bartender and bandman. Right.

So everybody was trying to do like these cool jobs in the early time. Yeah. So everyone was getting tattooed. And so at the moment, it felt like if you were in your 20s, like all these, you know, crusty old boomers, you know, are like giving way to the new generation. Like tattoos are going to be totally acceptable. And then there was just this like return to conservatism

that persisted and persisted. And then it's just, it felt like when that court case came, It was like, what are we doing here? Like, you're not, you just can't draw on people's bodies. Like, and that's it. And it was, it really felt like, oh, like this is going to be the end of it for sure. But then now I think what's happened is TikTok happened. Right.

Now I think people are just like, you know, Japan can't pull this like reifer madness bullshit. Like kids are too savvy for it, man. They can't just be like, if you even look at a Japanese momiji wrong. You'll go insane. I think it also helps you expose to people. I think in Japan, it's very easy to never meet someone with a tattoo if you really cut up your way or you're in certain circles, right? So perhaps I feel like it's probably exposed people more to have different ideas,

but people with tattoos as well who seem normal enough just like them, you know? It's like tattoos don't suddenly make you a pariah that lashes out and you've... You're not immediately a criminal once you have a tattoo. Yeah, I think visually too, there was something in the older generations where if someone had a suit on and like the cuff of their sleeve went up and you just saw a little bit of like this, you'd be like, ooh. Yeah, right.

I mean, I'd argue for some communities, it's still like that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you can kind of tell. But then I think when you cross into like the, you see somebody in there have something, you know, and it's like a small flower or a little butterfly.

And it's not too much of a bridge ago, oh, that's kind of cute. And you're like, did I think an Yizumi was cute? Yeah. But, you know, it is. Oh, you know, I scared so many people with my Poon-Pun Tatoo, right?

Like, Japanese people look at them. They're like, oh, he's the Akersel for sure. I can see how people would be scared to maybe different ways. Yeah. I look at that. I'm like, Joe, you're doing good? Are you good, Joey?

I'm not fine. Yeah. So I'm curious. Do you normally tattoo, are your client based? Do you normally have tattoo like other Japanese people or do you get a lot of foreigners as well? So it's totally flipped.

When I started tattooing, I only tattooed Japanese people. Right. And there just weren't like, a lot of foreigners in Japan. And like I was in Osaka, so there weren't even like military bases around Kansai. So you didn't even have like the Yokoskai, you know, you must have been the only white guy and also. I mean, like, in Kalashima, it felt that way for sure. Oh, yeah. In Osaka, though, I mean, yeah, like really like, yeah, there were people who had

come through, people would come through for work. We had like universal studios. So you'd see like the USJ guys out getting drunk, like, you know, crashing jet skis and things like that. They were all from Australia, by the way. They're all from Australia. Oh my God. I think they had to implement like a breathalyzer thing at USJ. Eventually. Oh my God. I'm glad we can bring a little bit of our culture to do. Yeah,

I'm Australians. I mean, they taught me how to live. They are the rowdyest bunch. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Some of those dudes even went on to one guy who was working at USJ, he was like a stunt designer for like Mad Max Fury Road. And like he was telling me.

Yeah, it was really cool. So yeah, there was some cool cultural exchanges. But yeah, you would be like people here doing like a weird job. Yeah. Right. Like people in like like like why. on earth are you in Osaka, right? Yeah.

And now there's just so many tourists that you can't really. You can't have a certain, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And neither can the locals. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. So it's normally like, is a lot of tourists now or is it just still people

that actually live here and reside here? It's tourist city. So, yeah, sorry. I didn't even answer your question. I just went to it the long way around. Now it's like, it's really like 90% foreigners. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So it's really flipped. But in general, I think, foreigners are a little bit more kind of adventurous with their ideas. It's interesting. I've also like changed the genres that I tattooed in now. So I think it's more fitting for.

What did you used to do? What do you do now? I mean, when I started, I was like trying to do, you know, traditional Japanese designs. Oh, right. Yeah, right. Flowers, dragons, coyfish. And then things like from the Suikodan or Journey to the West or, you know, some of those when you think of like traditional, like Buddhist deities, things like that. And so I was studying with books. I was, you know, copying Katsushka Hokka and Kailanabe Kiyosai and, like, just tracing their stuff and trying to figure it out and, you know, get the visual language down. And then, um... And then you single-handedly popularized anime tattoos. Like, Benny, the reason, the reason why there are so many people with anime tattoos because of this guy.

Oh, my God. Is that the case? You can blame me. Yes. You know, how does this will stop? God. So I think the way it started was after a while when you're doing the same issue thing every day, like, you know, you know, I think it's pretty normal for artists,

but you just want to break out of it. You want to do something new. And like, so someone's like, oh, you know, like wouldn't it be cool? Like if I had like this little like Gundam head. Right. And or like,

well, what if I had like, you know, a tattoo of like an anime girl on my arm? And I was like, that'd be so wild. What? Like everybody would be like freaked out by that.

Are you kidding me? Or like a video game tattoo. Like, what if you got a tattoo of Mario? Like, it was just like, whoa. Like, who would do that?

It would be just so, it would fly in the face. Yeah, who would do that? I mean, because all the tattoos I was seeing every day. And, like, I had no idea. Keep in mind, like, I've been out of the U.S. for, like, almost a decade at this point. So I had no idea what people were doing over there. Like, I didn't follow the culture at all.

And so the stuff I was seeing every day was like, again, it was like flowers, dragon, snakes, you know, cool stuff. Right? And those motifs are classic, but just breaking out of that and being like, you know, talking with a client being like, oh, what if we did this? What if we did that? And so, you know, I did one and then two. and then like five.

And then before, you know, and I was like trying to like show that to be like, let's do something like this. People were like, oh, yeah. And then in the, because in the beginning, like, if you don't have a client, like you can't really put it out there. And like we didn't, we also didn't really have social media

as a way of it today. So you didn't have like this Instagram-y platform to go out there and just like get inspirational. And then show people what you're doing. Yeah. And get more clients. You had to really go word of mouth. And so Osaka, I think, is one of those nice cities

where people are a little bit like wild and weird. Oh, yeah. Bit Chatsy as well. bit chatty, yeah, yeah. Talked me up a bit. So that was nice. But yeah, a lot of people who trusted me. Right. Yeah, gave me all that. Do you remember what the first anime tattoo you did was? Do you remember the first character or series? The very first one? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was there one where you're like, yeah, this is like the direction I want to go with my art. So it's not the first anime tattoo that I did, but it's

one of the first ones that I did where I think I was like, I'm just going to. push this out. Yeah. Right. Nonstop. I think it was Taiga Chan. From, from Torridorah?

Yeah. That's right. Tiger from Toradora? Wait, you got to expand. I thought it would be like a Luffy or a... Yeah. Or like an Astro Boy or something.

Yeah. Or something classic. This predates Luffy. No, it doesn't. This movie existed. This was also, I'd realize the pain of an art of a tattoo artist is that you might have done this amazing piece and you're like, fuck, I've got to take a picture. I don't know where that person is or where this piece is.

but it's on someone. Yeah, this museum that moves around the world and I have no way of locating it. Yeah, and you have no control who's seeing it and who they're showing to. Like, so it's interesting that, yeah, your old work is walking around out there

and then people are like seeing it. Yeah, totally. I might end up in a skin museum. You imagine that. You're like, you know, traditional dragon, Tor, Tor, Torah. Is that tiger?

Like, you open up the locker and she's inside. Oh, my goodness, dude. And, and... predictably. This is like one of the first anime tattoos that I did. I like I had taken a photo of that and I think I even got it in like a magazine. Oh, right. Right. Yeah. And so people saw

it and like, it's a magazine. It was like Instagram made a paper. We got a call at the studio and somebody was like, like that's my wife that you tattooed on somebody. That's my wife. And they were like

dead serious. Yeah. Right. And I was like, um, She's not real? I didn't even know what to say. I was just, because, you know, Japanese guy? Yeah, so this is a Japanese conversation. So I'm, he's just,

order away for this order. And I was just like, so this is. I had no idea what to say. Ja. Hang. Gamin aside, bro. Desch must.

No idea. No idea. Damn, that's crazy. Yeah, so the gatekeeping began almost immediately. Oh, shit. Wow. In lockstep with the culture. They're like one character per person only.

It was more intense. Tattooing anime fans or Yakuza. Yeah. So I have a, I have a story about that. Okay. Okay. So when I had first opened the studio,

like on my own, so I finally like left and spread my own. How many years did that take from start to get to that point as well? So I had been tattooing at this studio for about 10 years. And then I said, you know,

I'm going to do it. I'm going to go off on my own. They were like, that's a long time. It's a long time to do it. It's a long time. But I think that was considered really normal in Japan. And like, yeah, of course, like you, there's no lock on the door.

You can leave whenever you want to. But I think I was really into this. Like, I'm going to play by the rules mentality. Yeah, yeah. Especially in like my first decade here. And then like when you open your own place, you realize, like, there are no rules. You just have to wing it and figure this thing out. So I opened up my own studio.

And that was kind of when, like, I totally forgot what we were talking about. Oh, Yakuza and anime. Sorry, sorry. There's a lot of stories. We got time. So I opened this place up, and this is before they enacted all these laws in 2012, which really turned the screws on the yakuza. They kind of made all these RICO-ish kind of laws. Oh, yeah.

It's like when you go to Japan and you felt visa form, there's the big thing of like, I'm not affiliated with any of Cusa. I think that was one of the things that they introduced was like, being a member of a Yakuza is a crime. Yeah. Yeah, we're doing business with them. I mean, they really were doing this. And so this is kind of right before that happened, I think, about a year or two. And so I opened this place and, you know, I tried to do due diligence and make sure there was like, you know, no one else doing a similar business around me. I moved pretty far away from the place that I had apprenticed at, you know, to not step on toes.

It's not step on toes. Yeah. Just, you know, to be polite or whatever. And so, yeah, within like a week, like a bentz rocked up out front and these two guys got out in like suits. By the way, I think by now. that court case thing. The court case hadn't started, but the police crackdown had started.

Right, right. So I was already like a rabbit. I just sunk my life savings into this. I had not, I had gone all the way back to zero again. Yeah. And then they're going to get rid of the entire industry. And like,

that must be stressful. I mean, it was like, am I just going to leave Japan? Is that it like, what's going to happen? Like, what am I going to do with my life?

Like, I was going through all this. And then like the door opens. And I'm like, it's a customer. And I go on stage since these two guys in suits. And they, just parked their bench like right in front of the door.

I'm like, oh boy, here we go. I mean, like, but you know, by this point, like, you know, working in a tattoo studio for a decade already, like, I mean, you do talk to yakuza. So yeah, right. But at the same time, it's a different thing for them to be actually like showing up at your door. Yeah, yeah.

There they were. And so I was like, they're like, oh, because my shop is called Invasion Club. And I think what happened was, you know, I was opening in their Shima or whatever. And there were like a couple of Jima shows like on my street. couple of yaku offices. And so they rocked up and they're like, the guy's like, Oneichan, what kind of club is this that you're running? And I was like, club. Like, oh, it's just the name man. Like it's not a, it's not a club. And he's like, he's like,

what kind of shop is? I do tattoos. And he's like, oh, you do you do you? And I was like, yeah, man. So I just like grabbed, I didn't know what to do, man. I just grabbed like the photo album I had on my desk and flipped it up like like this. And I pointed out of it. And I pointed to it and it was Ritchan from Keon. You want this? And those and like both the guys just kind of like look down at it. And they look at each other and then the other guy goes out. He's just like, he goes all.

And then I was like, he's probably just take his shirt off. Yeah. I was like, and they're like, they're like, you know, we're not really the types to be interested in you. And I was like, you guys are literally the premier customers. Yes.

It's kept this industry a lot. Yeah, so that was my little brush. And that never I didn't trouble after that. Oh, that's good. That's good. Do you remember like your first customer walking in? That must have been such a fun like, like the first time a customer was like, hey, I'm interested. I think in the beginning

because I was already trying to shift from a walk-in style to more of like an appointment-based style. So it was a lot of like, you know, when you first open, I was like, am I even going to have customers? Yeah. Yeah. Was I getting ahead of myself thinking that anybody would like anything I have to do. Like, you start, like, psyching yourself out if you think about it too much.

Yeah. But I think I got, you know, in my head a bit. And then before you know, yeah, like, of course people are going to come out and support you, at least in the first few months. And so. Yeah. I imagine you probably made a ton of friends anyway, being in the industry for 10 years. Yeah.

So you've received a lot of goodwill from a lot of really good people. Like, I was really lucky to be in Osaka when I think about it. I mean, I've really enjoyed that aspect of being Japan as well, the sense of unity, just not from just people who work with. but like customers who regularly go and talk to. People were great, man. Like, people brought me stuff for the studio. Like, here's a pot to make your coffee.

Here's some blankets if your customers get cold. Like, yeah, like thoughtful presence. Like people really came and like, you know, here's like a bottle of wine. I'm like, yeah, straight away. That's true. Not even waiting for the opening party. Hell yeah, dude.

Yeah, people were really good to me. And so, yeah, to answer your question, like, it felt like super good. Yeah. It felt really nice to have people coming in and like, wow, like this is, I have my own space now. I'm doing my own thing.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, a lot of people, you know, they struggle to even imagine going to Japan. Like,

that's such a big leap. But then to then go to Japan and then open a business in Japan. It's like another level on top of that. In that industry as well. On that industry. And Japan is also very tough with paperwork and regulation. There's so much stuff.

And I imagine it must have been very challenging. How long did it take you before you really start to feel like you had really cemented your, you know, put your foot down and you're like, I think I've kind of got it? Or do you never feel that way? This week,

no. Well, because you also are opening a new one this week, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. In Tokyo? Yeah, that's great. Yeah. In the hood.

Yeah. So it's not a, it's not a straight line. And yeah, the first time I got on a plane just to visit Japan was a huge deal. And I was bouncing off the walls in the airplane. Like, I was so excited. Right. Yeah. And then of course, like, I'm going to make an international move.

I'm going to like teach English. I'm standing in a classroom for the first time. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't have any teaching credentials. I'm just like a guy, like, standing in a class and what's going on. And then going from there to like, you know, visiting a tattoo studio. And like, everything's an incremental step, though. Yeah.

Yeah. And then after a while, I think I started getting into the rhythm of like, okay, I've taken a swing. I've hit the ball before. It's not my first time standing at the plate. Like, yeah, sure. If I tried to do this, I think, you know, three weeks into the country, yeah, I'm sure I would have run away crying and falling flat on my face. You know, it would have been terrible.

Of course, it wouldn't work out. But it's everything in life is like that. It's incremental. steps, right? Like, I'm pretty sure if you told me 20 years ago that, like, I'd be doing this, like, wouldn't have even believed it. Oh, man, you're speaking to the right crowd. I think we all thought that about it all of our own careers. Yeah, for sure, right? Yeah. Was there anything like that you totally caught off God buy when opening up a business in Japan or like totally unexpected? You were like, what? I feel like everything. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there's this

idea, like, because I was already going through like visa paperwork, like, if you've ever had to work with visa paperwork before in Japan. We have an agency. If you guys knew anything about that, but I'm just kidding. You know, if you've ever gotten your visa finally squared away, when it's done, you're like, thank God, I never have to fucking do that again. Yeah. Like, it's over.

I can relax. And then, like, you go to start a business and open a bank account and sponsor a visa for somebody else. And then you're like, holy fucking shit, this paperwork, like, iceberg is like, it's touching the Titanic is so deep. It's insane. Like, it's just honkos and papers and things in triplicate and like taking, you know, glue sticks to seal envelopes and like over and over and like three interviews to get a bank account, like in person interviews. It made getting my permanent residency look like a cakewalk having to like do the like the business stuff. I mean, you know, as someone who also opened a business

here, even though I was, I'm technically Japanese with Japanese citizenship. That shit was still like the biggest fucking headache of my life. Just six months of just like, as you said, yeah, like signing things over and over and over again, sending it off to some department I don't even know the name of,

hoping to get a response within three weeks. Well, yeah, like, you know how like everything is very like trust-based in Japan, right? Or is in America, they're whipping credit cards at you like, shiriken when you're like 13,

like hurry up and get into death. But in Japan, like, I'm like 35 at the time. And I'm like, can I have a credit card? And they're like, hmm. I still don't have credit cards.

Yeah, not a Japanese one. Oh, really? Yeah. My first limit, I think it was like 30,000. Yeah. And I'm like, wow. They're like, don't spend it all at once. This is my con be only credit card for the month.

It took a minute to build that up. I mean, I think that was like the frustration because like you're trying to build the business. Like, I need to buy some things on Amazon. Like, I can't. Yeah, everything's over the limit. Oh, man. This country, I swear, does everything it can to make trying to start a successful business as difficult as possible. I legitimately don't know how people do it.

Persistence? Yeah. Yeah. Just like, I mean, you probably need to not know what you're getting yourself into. I agree. Probably, I agree. Not knowing the amount of shit you're going to have to do probably helps because you're like, I'll just tackle one thing. Why is it 15 things? How hard could it be? My goodness, dude. I just finished my tax filing for the year. I mean, that is also like hell an epic adventure of just like going back through your paperwork and like he's like you know find the piece of paper from this thing

you did in January I'm like I don't know it's somewhere it's somewhere oh my god and he's like you have to find it there's no choice yeah going through I just moved the studio too or I didn't move the studio but I opened a new studio and moved a bunch of my stuff and so I'm like

going through folders like it's got to be in here and I'm going through like you know old anime figures and just looking for this receipt for an envelope. So what are some of the most popular tattoos that you have to do in terms of like characters or concepts? So I have kind of transitioned into trying to do more like original characters now to kind of break out of the envelope of only doing, you know, like Niji So Saku or, you know, other people's like IP.

Like, of course, like I do it in like my own way and like my own twist. But I've tried to move more into that realm. And I've tried to kind of really get a customer base that's kind of on board with that. But in terms of like the requests that we get, I think I've been doing it enough years now that people sort of know ambiently that like, oh, he likes to do like these kinds of characters. Right, right. Like the weirder it is, the more I'm like going to like it. That's the short version. So like a lot of people that want to get something, you know, like no shade it like Shonen Jump or anything like that.

But that's a lot of what people want now. Yeah. So I'm generally like if I do an order like that, of course I'm going to give it my own. I'm going to do like a awesome job on it. But I'm generally more interested in something that's really off the wall. So if someone's like, you know, I want to do, you know, this Luffy tattoo versus if someone's like I want this model Suihiro or this Ito Junji, then I want some kind of a crazy. Or they'll say what's even better is if they're like, I want something that's like inspired by that. But it's like your own original take out.

Because then it's like, you know, all all bets are off. We can do something really awesome. Okay. Yeah, yeah. That's really fun. And that's what I find myself doing a lot of now. I mean, that's an also place to be where you can kind of choose that.

When you're like, I kind of want to do more of this. So I will. It's an incredibly privileged place to be when people are coming to you, not just like copy this thing that I found on Pinterest and put it on my body. It's more like, you know. Meanwhile, I rocked up to your shop and I'm like, can you do a tiny pimpoon on my arm, please?

I'm too scared to commit to a giant anime girl. We grandfather and our friends. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get there one day, don't worry. That's how you start. Everyone starts somewhere. Exactly.

I feel Joe is inevitably going to get a lot. I mean, I'm already, I already won another one, so. Oh, nice. I'll know who to hit up. You're thinking I could never be filled. I could never possibly fill up the space on my side. No.

Never, never. What's your next character, Joe? I have a couple on my mind. There's like some music things I want. There's like another manga thing that I want. Yeah, it's, I've realized now, Like, you know, I've not having known now a lot of not only tattoo artists, but also just like people covered in tattoos, I get where they're like, once you get one, you're not going to stop with just one. You're going to get more. And I get it now. You're looking at your arm and then you're looking at the arm with nothing on it. You're like, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, I could fill up something here.

Yeah. But tattooers like, so what goes into like designing a tattoo then? I've always been curious about that. Yeah. So everything starts with the consultation. or the initial contact. So a lot of people are, if they're already following you on social media, they're already kind of probably thinking about what they want. And then usually they'll go through our customer forum where they kind of answer some questions

and then they come at me with like, and I tell people on social media this. Like I'm like, throw me multiple ideas. Throw me your weirdest, your craziest ideas. And then I kind of make like a list. Like here's some stuff I'm kind of interested in doing. If you need like some prompting to get you your imagination running. So then people send me, you know,

anything from a few sentences to, a 10-page PDF of like what they want. And then what I'll do is I'll take that. I read and all that. Oh, man. Sometimes people send you some, some Dostoevsky novels. Probably because they have such a vivid image in their mind.

You're like, I'm not going to get that from this. Yeah, this is too much. Yeah, my prompt window isn't quite... That's not how it works. It's quite that large. Yeah, no. So, but yeah, you know,

like, I'll usually even take their emails. Yeah. And it'll be like, hey, I really like, what you do? I really cool if I get this girl. And it'd be awesome. Like, maybe, I don't know, if you could do like her as like purple or something. Like, got it purple. You know.

And then like, they'll be like, and I don't know if you really fit this in. Maybe like she had like a leprechaacon sidekick or something. Got it at leprechaun. And so like, like, you just like pick out the keywords and then try to fit it on there somewhere. Like, you got everything in. And it's like, you know. I was like, yeah. It only took four words.

Yeah. So it starts there. And then, you know, you know, you go and you look for references. you go and look for things that are interesting. Usually there's some other stuff. Like you're putting culture in your brain constantly. Yeah. Just through like osmosis.

So you're throwing shit up in the hopper. It's shaking around as you walk around the city. And then like when it comes down to sit down in front of, you know, the drawing board or the iPad or whatever, you've already got some stuff that's kind of churning in there. And then you look at the prompt and it's like, oh, well, I could do this. I was getting inspired by this other thing.

Now it's my chance to bring this other thing in that I've always wanted to do. Yeah. So yeah, it's a really fun process. That's what it's much more interactive than like if you're just taking something someone gave you and just just copying it. Yeah. It's like some of like the weirdest things you've had to do or some out there designs.

There's a few of them. I'm so curious. I feel like Joey asked me about this in a previous encounter and I see the problem is like of course I wouldn't I don't want to like out anybody. No, no, totally understandable. Yeah, because you're going to say like a particular tattoo or a tattoo on you're like, wait, I

don't have to say the person's name but If I say a person came and got multiple midget pygmy pegacorns with fat bellies. I'm sorry, what is that? They're going to be like, wait, what? No, no,

there could be multiple people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it could be anyone. That was one guy. Multiple times.

That guy knows what he likes. He knows what he likes. He knows what he liked. And, you know, I remember like, I did this tattoo to suspect. This is, by the way,

like, really early in my career. I didn't really know how to like kind of steer people or set up boundaries or tell people or make even suggestions to like steer them. Yeah. So at first he was like, oh, I like want this Pegasus. I'm like, oh, okay, I can do a Pegasus. Whatever.

You know, so but then it kind of morphed. He's looking at the design. He's like, no, like, can you make her like batter? And I'm like, yeah. And like, by the way, like I practice drawing a lot. but like, I'd never drawn a horse before. It's a hard thing to draw. It's a hard to draw.

Notorously hard to draw. So I'm like looking at all these reference book of horses, it's like 3 a.m. I'm like crying. You're like trying to make it fatter? Fattar. Go into a weird place. And so like I bring this thing into him and I'm showing you to him.

And he does the thing where he's like, okay, man. And he's like, yeah, I'm happy to see you. I'm glad I'm happy to see you too. Here's your drawing. And then they do the thing where they're like, and you're like, oh no. Oh no. The Cogs a turn.

I thought I was going to get out here at 6 p.m. today. Now it's never, right? Yeah. And so, like, it just kind of went on and on. And, like, finally, like, I finished this statue. He was, like, really happy with it. I came in the next day.

There was, like, we had answering machines back then at the studio. And, you know, it's like what you see in, like, exposition in movies, this little flashing light. Yeah. And it's like, you know, you have 67 new messages. Oh, no. And, yeah, this guy was like. like like it's not right this is not this is not what I asked you for I need you to change it

and I'm in like next message and he's like no this isn't right right and I'm sitting there and there was another person in the shop and we're sitting there like looking at the answering machine like are all these messages from him I suddenly felt like not safe Yeah. You know, and we're like these dudes that are covered in tattoos hanging out in this tattoo shop. And I, you thought the yagasa was scary? I was like, what is going on? So, you know, we're skipping ahead on the messages.

Yeah. Yeah, it was all that. And so, like, he wanted me to see if I could, like, just like enlarge the tattoos somehow or, like, add more of them. Like, it was sort of this environment to were like, we weren't really, like, allowed to say no to customers. Right. Right. Right. We kind of had to do something to make them happy.

And so, like, I ended up doing like a lot of tattoos on this person. Some of my clients, if they're listening to this podcast, are going to know, like, this story's got lore. Like this. Right. He's like known. Yeah.

Oh, man. Like, but I, you know, I, yeah, yeah. It's a judgment free zone. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I do a lot of crazy things. And I imagine as well, that's just people like, you know, obviously your artwork is amazing. And what you do is extremely beautiful.

But I imagine there are just some people who just regret it. Like, that's generally a permanent thing. And I'm sure people get it. And it looks amazing, but they're like, ah. Yeah, I think for this dude, he just wasn't satisfied and wanted more. And eventually, he did eventually completely fill up his entire. Right. With fat horses?

Yeah. That sounds like some kind of, this is Pegacorn. This sounds like some kind of like biblical curse. Like, I mean, they- Another one. More. I need 67 fast Pegg-a-Borg on my body. Like a German kid time story.

Don't be like like Gunthar Zupakosus, man. And then we still have more of Zupacus who had to take over. There were other odd signs too. Like, he would always, you know, like once in a while they'll change the money. Like, they'll cycle out the old money

and they'll cycle the new money. And like, he would always pay with like money that was from like two cycles ago. Oh, wow. So it'd be like this money that was like minted in like the 70s. Yeah. And you're like, hmm.

Time travel. Okay. Yeah. Well, we all had things in the studio. We started generating. theory. So after a while, like, you know, on the third or fourth time, I was just like, oh, this is kind of interesting.

Like, you always pay with these, you know, old bills. Yeah. His expression, like the color drained out of his face. He's just like, I can explain. You see, there's a reason. And I was like, it's cool. I was just shooting the breeze, you know. This is happening.

He's like, no, there's a reason. Okay. I can explain it. And I'm like, dude, it's totally cool. Yeah. Anyway, like, he was, he was, so he leaves. Yeah. And I come in the next day and me and my buddy are standing behind the counter again.

And then, you know, get in the shop ready. Yeah. Look at the answering machine. Oh, my God. The lights blinking. Right. Very fast. It's so scary.

Right. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So, you know, not to, you know, I, this is not thrown shade. Yeah. You asked. I mean, I tried to just think, well, that's your fault. That's your fault.

That's generally. be curious. I'm relaying information. Yeah, I don't think you're being no, no, no. I just had to pick one off the top of the pile and like, yeah, I mean, that one took the case. You have a public and customer-facing, you know, job.

Yeah. So I think you will, you know, any job that where you interact with customers at a regular basis, you're going to have some people here, you know, a little bit more unusual. Yeah. Everybody's the unique Pokemon. Yeah. Like, sometimes you get a rare one.

Yeah, for sure. I just had a flashback. You're telling us, I had a flashback of that scene from the country for, uh, the country for men. It's just like, oh, your license place is from out of state. What business is it? It's a little boy in front.

Call it. That guy had such an epic haircut. I love that haircut. I love that haircut on Anton Chigar. Like, I wish I could do that with my hair. It's never happened. Only he can pull it off in that movie. I think I read somewhere I saw in like a podcast or something like he did it on like a

dare or something. There was some kind of like story about it that like he normally didn't have a haircut like that but he did it for the show. Right. It works. Yeah, no one's pulled it off since. Yeah. So you also must have lived through the big earthquake as well.

I did indeed. Yeah, what was that like living as a foreigner in Japan back then? So we were in Osaka, but we felt it, which was crazy because I remember, you know, there's like different kinds of like waves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the kind where like everybody in the, we were standing at the counter. It was like me and like a client. And like all of a sudden we just started to feel like kind of like ill.

And of course, oh, maybe I'm just, you know, still drunk from last night. Yeah. Perfectly plausible. But no, it was just like, no, the building is like moving like this. And like, that's a long way away from Tohoku. Yeah. Yeah. That we felt it.

And yeah. So we did live through that earthquake. And there was a lot of people who one, I'll relay a story of something that was really cool. There was a tattoo artist named Hori Wren. And so she's one of my sempai. And she did this thing where she got a bunch of like biker dudes together, other tattooers. She went around to some of these places. that were decimated.

And like she's really interested in like Japanese culture and things like that. And especially things like the Matsuri, which really like ties people to their land and their place. And like people lost like their temples and their donjidis. And she went back and like she painted like screens and don jitis and things to like kind of help get those festival things like up and running again for people. Like people really reached out in ways that I thought was like really amazing. It was really inspiring. I think that was my big takeaway from Tolmoka wasn't. just like that it was a disaster and that everyone was losing their mind, but that people really

reached out. Yeah. Yeah. It was really the moment where like the entire country was just like, let's set aside any differences that might arise. Like this is a time where we all need to just like be together and just like be there to support people. Because, you know, I think especially in Japan, like living here, like you, you see that happening in another part of the country and you're like, that could happen here next at any time. Yeah. So I think people become like even more like, you know, community-driven and sympathetic when they see something like that happening. You know, like, it happened recently with like the, the Noto-Honto-Honthor earthquake as well, right? Like people from all over the country like, yeah, I mean, shit, that could happen at my home

anytime. So, like, I need to be there for my fellow man, you know? Oh, absolutely. So it was super cool to see, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, of course, you know, we're right next to Kobe. They had the Hansian earthquake. Yeah. Back when I was in high school, I remember that, like, made the news in the United States.

You'd see, like, the highways had, like, toppled over. Yeah. And it was just crazy. So it was good to see that people had like learned a lot of lessons from that earthquake in terms of like preparation. I mean, that changed. I think that Kobe one is one that I could be wrong, but changed all the building codes. But at the same time, I mean, what's really sad about it is like you see some of the footage from that earthquake, the Tohawk earthquake. And a lot of these buildings, the earthquake has just happened.

And these buildings are still standing. But then the tsunami comes. Yeah. And you just can't stop. Yeah. Yeah. No. Like, I mean, people, you know, are always going to try to point fingers and say this or that, but it's like, you can't stand against. Mother Earth. Yeah. Yeah. You can try to live with it. Yeah, exactly. We are at its mercy at all times. Yeah. Of course, Japan is not great located. Yeah. I mean, come from the UK where we have literally nothing. Yeah. Maybe some light flooding. But that's it. Yeah. In the UK, the your biggest threat is man. Yeah.

Food. It's like there's nothing. Yeah. You just get very used to like, oh, I can just put that thing on that cupboard there dangling off. It'll be fine. I mean, same thing in Australia as well.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, Australia has nothing. Yeah, right. Exactly. I thought Australia had all sorts of things.

Well, they got the animals, didn't she? Well, we got animals and bushfires. So, you know, those are bad,

obviously. But, like, yeah, we don't have to ever worry about, like, earthquakes. Even though apparently last year, there was a pretty big quake in Melbourne.

Really? Yeah. just randomly. And I'm like, oh, good. Another thing to add to our list. Just toss it on the heap. Yeah, exactly. Where are you from in the States originally?

So I'm actually from Minnesota. Oh. Midwestern. Yeah, Midwest. Yeah. Definitely. I have not been there in a long time. But, yeah, it's going to say, like, you've, because you've been Japan for over

half your life now. Yeah, I crossed the, uh, the dreaded halfway. So, I mean, at what point do you, are you like, I'm more Japanese than American in a sense, where you're like your mindset at least. Yeah, I mean, like at the end of the day, like, I'm always going to be mean. Of course, of course, of course. Like, in terms of like culture and stuff, I mean,

it's weird. I think when I left America originally, I was like, man, like, screw this place. It sucks. Everyone sucks. I hate America. And then like, you know, after I lived here for a while, then I went back to America. I'm like, America's awesome. People are smoking weed and there's Mexican food. And people are, and like, people are so fucking nice.

Americans are so friendly. Yeah. It was like blowing my mind. I mean, that again. It does make you appreciate the things that you didn't, you didn't, you too, for granted, right? Totally sure. Yeah.

But then after a couple weeks in America, I come back to Japan, I'm like, oh, the trains are on time. People are polite when they put my food in front of me. This is great. I do my like visa stuff today, I'd get like a picture taken. And I just remember one time I wanted to get a picture taken in the UK, it was a fucking ball lake to find a place to do it. Really?

But in Tokyo, you know, you just, there's like, there's like a booth everywhere. Yeah. Like every station is a booths. Yeah. You're like, damn, this is so can. We should have this. What was it like getting your photo taken at the UK? Well, there was, there was one, there was nowhere near me.

I had to like call up a photo store, um, but they only spoke Chinese. And, but like, you just make it work and you're, and I remember I was like 19. And I'm just trying to be like photo, photo passport, okay. This is it. And then like, they're just like, no, no, no, you know, you just sit there. But then somehow they, you get it. You get it. You just get it.

You just like, you don't get it done. You'll figure it out. Yeah. But this is in, like, London. Oh, I thought it was in Wales. No, it's in London. This is like anyone near me. There was no photo booth that was like,

that wasn't immediately near me. Right. But I was like, oh, it's like a store in my area of those photos. Like, and they advertised online. They did it. And they just happened to be the worker who was there just didn't speak a word of English.

In Wales, I think you had to go to like a boots or something. Yeah. But it's like, give the drive and it's a bit of a pain. Like, it's a thing you have to plan. Yeah. Oh, okay. Whereas in Japan, it's like, you know,

a lot of these things you take for granted that you're like, I'll just do it. Oh, what I'm on my way to my thing, I'll just, you know. And that's one thing. It's normally like post office or boots or a very specific post office as well. Not everyone. Yeah, not everyone has one. Yeah, not everyone.

I think like the convenience of Tokyo is like insane to me. After like 20-ish years in Osaka. Yeah. Like, our studio is located like pretty much right next to Shinjuku. Like it's five minutes from the station. So it's like, I can just go to Tokyo hands. I can just go to Fran Fran, Fran and look at like soap bottles. Like, I.

I can do anything. You can get any type of food or cuisine. It's like 5 a.m. and I can still like get food. Like that's awesome. Did you ever consider going back to the US at all? Or was it like just, you know, once you found your footing here, you're like, this is it? I think like when when the stuff was going down with like the legal stuff here in Japan.

And then like around that time I think Obama was the president, they were legalizing weed. I was like, that's what to go you back over it. I can stay here and be a social pariah and go to jail or get art hero and smoke weed and live in California. And I was like, but then like, I'm glad I stayed because now I'm like, oh, gone. Yeah. America took some turns this decade. It's a very different country now. No country for old men.

As they say. Or a country run only by old. Yeah. Said another way. Yes. I've always wanted to ask the tattoo artist this. Sure. What is your opinion on a lot of foreign people, you know, especially in the UK and stuff, they have the kanji as like tattoo they get.

You know what I mean? Or like Chinese characters or something along those lines. How many of those have you had to do for foreigners? I mean, especially early my career, I've done quite a few. I think it's like anything else. Like, I mean, I think the question people should be asking is like, if you're going to take that on as the job, is like, can you do a good job with it? Right. Because if you can't, like, send it to somebody who can.

Like, if someone, I mean, I really don't do these tattoos anymore. So it doesn't, I don't even know how I would, like, respond to it. But, like, there's people who do amazing lettering. Right. And, like, I'll get pedantic about it because I like studying and learning about this stuff. So, like, as soon as you start following someone on Instagram who does, like, nice showdo or something. Yeah. And then you start scrolling down and you see, you're like, I don't even want to attempt to do this.

Like, these people are just doing it blindfolded. And you're like, I mean, they're beautiful. Like, Kanji is one of the most beautiful things, like, on earth. And the Japanese have taken it in their own direction. I'm happy they still use it in Japan. It's really cool when you go and visit, like, China or something. And, like, they've got, it's like, oh, I can actually read some of this stuff.

Yeah, yeah. It's like this unexpected, like superfluous. At least menus, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. But, yeah, like, if I get why people want to get them, everyone wants the things that they don't have. A lot of my Japanese customers early on all wanted to get, you know, English scripts. like, do you know like a good phrase, a good idiom? Oh, really?

Live, laugh, love. Live life. I remember one time, a Japanese, no, it's even better. A Japanese colleague of mine was like, oh, Benjamin's son, uh, there's a customer of mine and he wants to get this tattoo. It is, uh, it is, uh, Yolo. What does Yolo mean? Oh, no.

And he wants this on his hand, Yolo. And I'm like, well, it stands for you only live once. And he's like, can you explain that? I'm like, well, you only get like one life. So if you want to do something, man, you should go for it. And he's like, I didn't realize America had these like amazing like expressions. It really gets to the heart of the Japanese soul. Like, yeah, it's very like Ichigo, Ichia.

Like, I'm down with this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And I'm like, yolo, yeah. Yeah, yola. Yeah, yeah. Any phrase does seem a lot deeper when there is no, like, cultural insight into why the phrase is

totally. Yeah. That's it. Do a good job. Make it your own, you know, if you can, you know, I think if you get something like totally out of context and you trust somebody who also has no context for it. I mean, you're going to get what you're going to get. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The fish grill.

Fish grill on, uh, Ariana Grande is what she got. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She got, she got, she got, in Japanese. It's a grilled fish. That's it. It's a yaku, but didn't, didn't it literally say seven rings or something? I don't know. Can we pull it up? There's been a lot of. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think if you did a literal. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. It says like, seven like Ubiwa, right?

Yeah, like seven rings. So I get like, it looks like she directly translated it, but it just culturally means something else. Oh, right, but those two words together would only mean small charcoal grill. Yeah, Stidding is literally the name of the grill, but you grill fish off. Like if you take the seven off, I think it just says, Ubiwa, doesn't it?

Like a ring ring and then she's like, oh, seven of a small foot a seven. So it's just, yeah, I don't, I think it doesn't literally say like, ha ha, fish. Are these like things that you have to be like, Oh, okay. I appreciate that you've got. I hate how pedantic I am. But you have to be.

You don't want to have some. I can't match themselves, you know? I can't shut the fuck up and it always gets me in trouble. I mean, yeah, I've had to do that a couple of times as well because I have a tattoo artist friend in the States that you recently did a tattoo on. Really? Yeah, Jasmine. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's a tattoo artist based on Vegas.

And every now and then she'll text me being like, Joey, there's this client that wants this Japanese. word, knowing that you are fluent in the language, I need the proper translation. Because I don't know. Everyone hits you up for those. Yeah, it's like, I don't trust myself in Googling this shit and I don't want to fuck these people over. Just who can't know chika? What's that about?

What's that about? A traditional Japanese beverage. Yeah, yeah, exactly. She saved my life. Many times. At this point, I don't even know if it works. It's just like a ritual at this point. Yeah.

Because there's so many times where I'm just like, I can give you the translation, but I'm Just my personal opinion, this isn't cool to have as a tattoo. That's all I'm saying. And she's like, that's not my fucking issue. That's what they want. So I have no reason to deny it if that's what they want, you know. As long as they fully know what they're getting. As long as they fully know what they're getting.

And I was like, all right, I'll give the translation. But all right, that's on someone's body now. Yeah. And you know, I'm like, I'm not a native speaker at all. So people still know that I've lived here a long time that I speak Japanese. They're hitting me up for. And then like, I'm so I'm sitting there. Oh, yeah.

Google translates. I feel like you're bad. basically a native speaker at this point. Checking my work on chat. Yeah. I wish I could remember what some of them were. Let me look at all. Do you a lot of people come to you with like AI stuff now?

And I'm like, I want this. And you're like, what the fuck is this? Well, they do. But I don't think people are like specifically making something in AI and then bringing it. I think what's happened is like because people look for inspiration where they can and they're on their phones. They go on Pinterest or Google search. Well, that stuff's all full of AI now. Yeah.

Yeah. Pinterest is all out. Yeah. And so some of it you can't tell. So it's like when I, get that, I don't be like, whoa, how dare you, sir? Like, you know, I'm not going to be like that. It's like, well, okay, what about this image they like?

They clearly like this kind of hairstyle. They like this kind of coloring. They like this kind of lighting. They like this kind of pose. And I just distill it from there. Are you always then, no matter what they give you, are you always kind of changing it to be more of your own style? Or is that something that just happens as you're doing tattoos?

Some of it just comes out naturally. Some of it is a conscious choice because what happens, especially like in the beginning when I started doing anime characters, like when I think I, I thought, oh, if somebody wants whatever, like a studio jibli, like, let's say they want to get a a jibli character, right? Yeah. Well, I should try to be faithful to like the jibli style. I should try to make this total look exactly like I shouldn't try to mess with the face proportions or change the coloring.

I should just, you know, do it this way. And then I really boxed myself. And then I found myself back kind of where I was with the other stuff that I'd been tattooing where I've been trying to work with black and gray portraits. And those are like pretty locked in, right? Or Japanese motifs where it's like a lot of it's very like repetition and pattern oriented. And so it was like, I was right back where I started. I'm like, I've got to break out of this. Yeah. But if you go too far from the source material, people are kind of in love with the face, especially if it's like a wifuish kind of a thing. And they're like, oh, I love the way that she looks. I want, you know, my wifu or my husband oh, to look exactly like this. And then it's like, okay, so how do

I bring that back? So that's why like pushing more into like original characters that are distilled from other things people like, it gives them something where like, oh, like, now they've got some that's even more unique. There's even more of the story to them. But yeah, it is a challenge. So sometimes people will send you lots of images and they'll be very particular and some people are like, yeah, just run with it.

I've a very possibly infuriating question. You know, because Japan's so strict with like copyright. Is there ever a worry or are people ever like, hey, you can't draw that character on someone? I don't think so with tattoos because, I mean, it would be like if you went after a comic market. I just know that because Japan can be very odd with this stuff sometimes. They can't.

I think if you were like, you were like, oh, it was Ghibli tattoo studio. And you're like, I think if you're producing like t-shirts and like stickers and things like that and you're selling it like, I'm sometimes really surprised when I see.

Because like, I mean, there was stuff with like, Star Wars and Disney and cosplay and like all these little cases that have popped up here and there like over the years. Like Disney famously, again, this may be predate to you guys,

but going after a kindergarten for painting, Mickey Mouse on a wall and like, there was a, there was the famous one with the dad who's, uh, his son died. really young and kid loves Spider-Men. They put Spider-Man on the grave and they sued the guy. Wow.

Yeah. That's great. No, I've never heard of this. Yeah. Pretty, um, not cool. Yeah. Yeah. Not cool. Jesus. Like, oh, please take that off your dead son's grave. I mean, it's like sending a message, right? That's what they want. Yeah. They want you know, we act like this because they want us to be like repulsed at how far they'll go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a feature not a bug. Yeah. I think it is a I think it's meant like the intended response. I mean, my personal feeling, like, not getting into the weeds with it because, you know, I'm not a lawyer or anything like that. No, no, no.

It would just be that, like, so many people in the anime and manga industry all got their start going to comic market or dogen events. Yeah. Comic art is just, like, a lot of, like, fan work. Yeah, I mean, it's all, like, Dovichi. I was just curious if you'd have cropped up as an issue. It's never really been an issue. And I think a lot of times, if anything, people are really happy to see it.

So once in a while, like, you'll get, um, the author or, yeah, you'll get the author will say something. I'm like, oh, this is really cool. And yeah, like I've tattooed a few manga come myself. Yeah, I just, I'll never be surprised by the like sometimes in Japan that you copyright protection might go to. Sometimes it can be, you're like, what? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I think it's a difference if you're like trying to do like mass produced goods or something like. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough, fair enough. What is the most popular, like, female kind of like wifu character? The most. Yeah. I just want to know.

I just want to know. I'm not the one that you do. My short answer, my short answer for me, like, I guess, get a lot of Rebecca from cyberpunk. Oh, okay. Actually, that makes sense. Yeah, people love Rebecca, dude. I mean, her character design is so amazing. I mean, all trigger character designs.

Oh, God, you know, no, no spoilers, but they did my girl dirty. Yeah, they did. I'm surprised Rebecca from cyberpunk. So it's kind of such a recent one. I think people, like, the pace of like anime releases is like so fast now and so much stuff gets cranked out. Like, I book so far in advance that usually people are

booking either more classic here. or characters that they've been in love with for a long time. But I think if you're in like a country where there's like a bunch of people doing anime tattoos and you get more of that instant gratification, there's going to be like a higher pace of like, oh, like this new anime came out. I'm into it now. I want this tattoo now. So like the trend just goes like so fast now.

Like whatever the new thing is like people are like getting that character and like suddenly you're seeing it everywhere. Like free run comes out. You're seeing free run tattoos everywhere. Right. You like keep up with anime through almost tattoo requests. Okay, so... You're like, I know it's popular.

I have a direct feed. Yeah, I don't want to like out myself as a fake fan here, but like Joey and I were talking about this how when you start... I mean, you're busy. You're going to get shit to do. Dude, and now there's like V-tubers in the mix and there's like all this like streaming and all this other lore and there's gaming

and like trying to keep up with like all this subculture. It's like it's literally physically impossible. And so the way, yeah, like the way it happens, it's exactly like you say. Like people are like, I want this tattoo and it's like, okay, now I'm in like crunch mode. I'm like, I'm doing this. I'm like, what's an iron mouse? I'm like, did a collaboration.

I did. Yeah, that's how I designed merch was it? What was the collaboration again exactly? That was really cool. So they reached out to me about doing a collaboration, which was really, really cool. And I had done some work with some other V-tubers by that point. And so I really had to go down this like, I think I watched. I reach up to the people and I got to get like up on this.

Yeah. And so they're like, watch these compilation videos. And so I'm putting them on three times the speed and like just listening to them while I'm tattooing. By the end of it, I'm just like, what is going to? Completely rotted. Nothing left.

Yeah. My brain was like losing out of my ears. But no, like after, because at the beginning, right, I'm like, why do people watch this stuff? Why do they like it? What are the, what is, which, what are these like, what is this whole system? Yeah. But like after a while, I'm like, okay, I get it.

Like instead of this thing where like you read about an anime character or a manga character and then you put it down, you're like, well, that was nice. This is like you're interacting with like this like persona in real time. And you're developing like this relationship with them. And like it's really cool. It was really interesting. It's like, yeah, if I was like 16 again and it was like whatever, the 90s or something. And you said, yeah, here's an anime character you can interact with.

And the rest of her fans and you could form a community around it. Hell yeah, I'd be interested in that. everybody would. So like I really, the appeal like really like clicked with me. And yeah, they were really super cool. And they're like, um, can we do an illustration? Maybe do like a collaboration. She was a fan of our clothing, I think. She was at least aware of it.

Yeah. Yeah. We did a few pieces for her. And, uh, yeah, hopefully there will be some more things in the future. That'd be cool to see. Have you ever had to tattoo a V-tuber design? Yeah. So I've done a lot of, um, um, oh my God, if I forget their name. Can we edit this later so I look back. Yeah, yeah. I always just called her Samaychan, the little shark girl. Oh, God.

Oh, God. I said it in time. I said it in time. Yeah, yeah. And that is, I think I've done like five tattoos of her. Oh, damn. Yeah, like the most popular one for sure. Holy shit.

Yeah, and like a super cute design, stuff like that. And there was, I did quite a few from like from V-shojo, you know, RIP. R-P. Oh, yeah. Or maybe. Yeah. Hopefully not with the logo. Did you see that shirt?

Can I talk about this? That shirt AJ made. Oh, V-Shoco? Or he took the V-V-Shojo and he tipped it sideway. So it looked like a moo. And then he changed the Shōjo to Shoku. So it says Mu-Shoku, which means out of work. Unemployed.

I think you pull it off. You go to high-tension guy in Twitter. I mean, dude, but like, I didn't understand what the joke was. And then my friend of mine explained it. I was like, wait, that's genius. Oh, man. I just think, look, dude, like, if you rob from a charity, that's a special level of people. Yeah. Yeah. And Iron Mouse is somebody that, like, in my view, is out there doing a lot of good in the world trying to pay it forward. Like, giving a master class in how to behave in the face of adversity. Like, I was really like, she's amazing. Yeah, for sure. How does it very well.

That's what I thought, too. There's a lot of ways to, like, blow up on social media and, like, no one would blame you for losing your cool. But, like, she didn't at all. She was, like, really. I don't. I was like, wow, I'm so proud to have, like, worked with this. You're such a shit situation. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to, you know, how do you even fucking begin to process it? Right, but then flipping it around and then making even, like, more money for charity. And, like, that's, how cool is that? I don't know if I could, you know, pull off something like that.

That was really cool, really inspirational. Yeah, it's, was that this year? That was this year. This year has been insane. I was like, damn, that was a crazy thing that happened last year. And I was like, wait, that's, that was this year. Yeah, man. God damn, man. Because it felt like the empire fell in a day.

Yeah, it uploaded pretty quickly. And then everything else started to come out of the, out of the gutty works into the rest of the internet. Oh, God. I was like, wow. So how long with each, like, say, like, your original, like, anime girl piece? Because, like, those, I've, you know, I've been to shop a couple of times and I've seen, you know, some of the stencils of your original artworks. I've always wanted, how long does that take to, like, actually. get on someone's body.

So the physical tattooing time, like, once it's all, like, fitted and it's, like, been hung on and we dried the stencil. Yeah. Yeah, man. I mean, if it's in, like, a good place and the person has, like, really, like, taught easy to tattoo skin or something like that. Yeah. Like, it's possible to finish one of those in, like, seven or eight hours, but in...

Oh, shit. It usually is upwards of, like, 12 or 13. Yeah, right. I mean, it really depends on... Oh, yeah, that's the Vashoku shirt. I also, AJ's based. He's so... He's so precious.

So precious. I lost his job and that was the first thing you did. Just like being able to roll with something like that is I really admire that. It's really cool. Yeah, because I think the Sephardoth you did for my friend Jasmine, that, that was like what? That was probably like a full arm piece like that. And it was, I think you did that in like, what was it like seven? Yeah, seven eight hours.

So that one, yeah, and that one was a little bit smaller than what I usually do as well. That one also had some challenges because it went up onto the shoulder and there were some other pieces to, work around. But usually I'll do something where it's like joint to joint. So it's like, elbow to shoulder or it's like wrist to elbow or something like that. And then I try to fit it under kind of like one flat plane there and make the character work with the the muscular of the placement. And yeah, I mean, it's it's a process. You got to do the lines. Then you got to shade it in. Then you got to color it in. Then you got to touch it up. And yeah, it takes a minute. Yeah, for sure. I was in my head. I don't know why I had this funny idea. If I was a tattoo

artist, but every like 20 minutes ago, like, They would just be so stressed out. Internally, internally, there's a little bit. I'm like, damn, it's taking long. Oh, man. No, I mean, I mean, there are days. No, no, no.

I mean, I imagine like, like you mentioned, right? You need to give people skills. I imagine very much so to be able to kind of keep them aties too. It's pretty quite a stressful thing for everyone, really. I mean, you also have to be able to like focus for a really long period of time. And I mean, like in a normal circumstance,

a tattoo that large, you would probably break it up. I would say that the majority of tattooers probably do break up tattoos like that. And if it's a local client and you can do that, that's great. But if I have people coming from overseas and like, this guy's going to bail. And like, I don't know if he's going to come back next year

or the year after. I mean, I've heard you tell me stories of how you used to do like 16 hours straight tattoos and shit like that. I've done a few. Yeah. Oh, God. It's so, I mean, and by the end of it,

like, the client is, dead. I'm dead. You're like just trying to get the wallet out of his pocket. You're like, can I, can I, please? He can't even walk, but I'm pushing him up. Yeah, you're the city's problem. No, no, no, no, of course. No, we give them, you know, we try to make sure when people are there.

We try to make a comfortable environment. We'll give everyone, you know, you know, free stuff to drink. If they want to order Uber, whatever, get something to be in store. Like, we're totally cool with that. Like, we all take breaks to like, you know, have food and recharge. And yeah, we try to keep it, you know, so the environment's nice. But yeah, most of the time, when it's game time, time, like, we encourage them to bring their iPads or their switch or whatever, like, lock in,

then I lock in with my own music or something and then just, you know, go, go, go. What's on your normal, like, playlist when you have to lock in? Oh. So, because we play a lot of anime music in the shop and stuff like that, and it's what a lot of the tattooers and the clients like to hear, when I lock in, I usually play a lot of these real, like, sound-scapey things, like, you know, a lot of EDM stuff. Like, there's this French production group called Circle, Circle, Soquel, I'm going to pronounce it wrong. But however the French pronounce the word circle. And they have like all these different

DJs, these exotic locations. And they'll do like these two or three hour sets. And so or like an hour and a half set or something. And those are really good because it kind of lets you time it to like, okay, that set to send it. So I've been doing this for an hour and a half. It's time to like, let this person use the bathroom. But you know, stuff without lyrics. So it's not as distracting. So I can just really like lock it. I wonder why I've never wanted to get a tattoo. It's never, it's never interested Maybe because you heard it takes 16 hours. That also doesn't sound great.

I mean, my Poonpun tattoo took, what, like 20 minutes? It's like, thank God, 15, 20 minutes. I should do these every day. I'll give you an easy job in. How's the pain, Joey? Honestly, I think, well, okay, so I have two on this arm and I have one on the top of my spine here. The one at the top of the spine definitely hurt the most because it's on a bone. Yeah.

Even though it's quite a small one up the top there because it's all like location. based, right? In terms of like... It's where you have the most nerve endings, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Because I've heard like, for example, like, Archie's got one, like, on her inside of her arm here. Yeah. And that location hurts like a motherfucker, like, way more than this side of your arm because there's just less skin and, like, muscle to just like cover that spot, right? Like, what's the most painful place you would say to, like, get a tattoo? There's like pain maps and stuff you can Google, but like the general, the general thing is like anything that's on the interior. If you think of, like, the humans as like

the human animal, right? And our backs are facing outward. and this part faces outward. Anything that's inward, like in here, in your belly, your underbell, like anything in here, it starts to feel like, oh, and like,

you've got like, lymph nodes and shit in here. Like, your sternum is, like, right next to your skin. So while it's tattooing the skin, it's, it's not hitting the bone,

but it fucking feels like it. Yeah. Right. Like, it's not great. I, for me, the chest was the worst.

Yeah, it feels like, like, I can only say this in my experience, but like, it kind of feels like if you had someone

with, like, a really, really sharp fingernail, just constantly just scratching at you as hard as they fucking came. That's nice. It's like, but like, they're really like digging into your skin level to the point where it just starts to, yeah, I don't know if I'm doing it justice, but that's, that's, that's how I feel. I can feel, I can hear the cancellation emails.

That's just kind of how I felt about it, I guess. But like, I mean, you know, you're tatted up to no end. Like, like, what's it like for you? Like, do you get used to the pain after a while? I mean, after a while, like, because your endorphins start like, like, over your life, I don't think you do. But like your endorphins like start firing. So like once you're in it for like a longer piece or whatever.

Yeah. At first you're like, ooh, that's not great. But then after like, you know, a half hour, you're like, oh. And then if you're for endorphine, you get like a rudder's high. So it's almost like, oh, I can do this all day. But then after a few hours, when that starts to drop off. Yeah. It starts to go like.

And if the brakes get too long, your body like thinks it's over. But then you're back in the chair again. And then it's like, oh. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, every tattooer is different. Every person getting a tattoo is different too. So people have different pain thresholds. And tattooers have different kinds of equipment,

different ways they were taught, different things they've learned. So some people have a lighter hand. But that isn't always better because maybe they're doing more passes to accomplish what they want to accomplish. It really depends. What made you both want to get a tattoo?

Like your individual reasons. I've always wanted to get one since I was in high school. Yeah, just because like I also, again, like back in Australia as well, I hung out with a lot of guys and girls who not only were covered in tattoos, but also, you know, you would, I would, in back in Sydney,

I would actually go to the tattoo shops to hang out with my friends as they were getting tattooed. So like, I would get to learn about tattoos and like, you know, make friends with tattoo artists and stuff like that. And I don't know. I always just thought it was like a really cool way

of like self-expression, I guess. Which, you know, I'm always down for. But like, the reason why, well, there's twofold, the reason why it took so long for me to finally get one. One was I just didn't really know. know what I wanted. Yeah. For one thing, because, you know, I understood like, oh, this thing is on my body permanently.

So it needs to be something that, you know, a year later, I can't be like, eh, I don't want that anymore because it's not that easy, right? The second reason was that I have a very incredibly Japanese and strict mother. Yeah, right? I mean, it's always the mums. It's always the moms who was just like, if you get a tattoo, I'll fucking kill you. And then, yeah, when I got my, when I got my Pokemon tattoo, which is the first one that I got in South Africa. It was my birthday. And basically, Aki and all the people around me were like

Yolo, basically. Just fucking do it, dude. You've won and one for the longest time. It's like, what's the worst that's going to happen? Your mom's going to kill you? Fucking whatever. Just get it done. You tried. She tried. Does she watch the show? How did she find out? Did you even try to keep it a secret? No, well, I did until, so I went to the convention in September because it was my birth. It was the end of September and that year for Christmas I was going to go back to Australia to hang out with my family. So I was like, maybe during this two-month period, they won't find out. You know, because I don't know how much of my videos they actually won't. Oh, you showed it in the video?

Yeah, because it's in my South Africa vlog. And so I guess, that's how you broke it to them? That's how I broke it. You let them find out for the vlog? Yeah. Was this when you, when you proposed? Was this that that trip? No, no, no.

This was before that. Yeah, yeah, like year before. Gotcha, gosh. Yeah, so I came home. Oh, well, actually, my sister texted me, like maybe two weeks later, the vlog. the vlog went up and she was like, yeah, mom just found out. And I was like, oh, how is she? And it's like,

I'll let you take a guess. Is she furious? Oh, she was pretty angry. But then I went home and, you know, it was during Christmas and I thought it was going to be the first thing that it was going to be brought on. You unveiled the fucking. Yeah. I was preparing for my mom to just be like,

sit down some. Was she just like sharpening the family katana on the wet stone? be like if anyone's gonna take him out, it's me. I want first. Show me the limb. I brought him into this one. I'll take him out. No, but what actually ended up happening was,

you know, that talk didn't happen, thankfully, but like the first couple of days I was there. And then Christmas Eve. Thought you were out. Yeah, yeah. And I thought I was like, oh. The third drink. Yeah, I was like, maybe she's forgotten about it.

Maybe she's like cool with it now. Now the time is fast. No. So Christmas Eve happened. It's like me and my family were all at my house And we're all just getting shit face as you do. And then my fucking sister. Oh, she instigated.

Of course. This is the job of siblings. She's getting you back from something you did. Motherfucker was like, we were talking about, oh yeah, no. We were talking about this because my sister's partner is also covered in tattoos, right? And Aki's also has a bunch of tattoos, right? So we were talking about my sister was like, oh, yeah, it's like kind of funny like how our partners are like covered in tattoos, but we don't have any, except Joey, right? That's the most sibling thing I've heard of.

She threw the grenades. Dude, I like whipped my head so fast. I was just giving her like, I'm gonna fucking kill you later. And then my mom was like, yeah, let me see it. Oh God. And so, you know, we're all pretty drunk at this point. So I was just like, yeah, look, check it out.

And I pulled it up and it was the Pokemon tattoo. She just like, she was just like, this fucking thing starts pinching my arm like this, like really hard. And then that was it. And then she just kind of forgot about it. My sister was looking at me like, wait, you're still alive?

Like, what? Do you think she'd be more pissed off if it was your sister? I don't know. See, because my sister has also wanted tattoos, but she's also afraid of my mother. Yeah. So, but then at the same time, I'm like,

well, bro, I've ran the, I've ran the course already. You're also a YouTuber, how much more can you fuck up? Yeah, yeah, exactly. She was already disappointed in me, you know? So it's like, ah, forget about it. She was like, you fell off already. It's fine. It's like, you can't fall that much further.

It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Exactly. I think that's what I learned. And also you preloaded telling them because they found out for your video. Exactly. I didn't, I didn't have to do like the ta-da, kind of like, you know, reveal like that. So I feel like I played it smart in that sense. Yeah, I do love watching those videos of like parents finding out the kids of tattoos and fucking lose it. Oh, there's like, oh, yeah.

Of course there was. Why am I even asking? And then a month later, I filmed the tattoo documentary and got the pumpkin tattoo from you. I was just like, well, she's cool with one. Seals broken. Oh, yeah. The seal's broken. Yeah, what's one more? Yeah, what's one more?

Exactly. Are you gonna get a sleeve, Joey? I don't know. Aki says I'll probably look good in a sleeve, but I just don't know what I want is the thing. I feel like you'll tell everyone they look good in the sleeve. Oh yeah, of course. And well, if it's you doing it, everyone will look good in the sleeve.

Exactly. I mean, I'm sure, I wonder how many family disputes. You've caused. I wonder how much of that I've put into the world. I wonder if there's anybody who's to this day is the speed. But on the other side, how many people have you, their lives have been enriched by you. Right?

Well, I mean, the, the, the, true like the victory lap one is if like the mom hates it the mom cries the person calls up like can I get rid of this can I cut what can I do? And I'm like there's nothing you can do like I can't do like anything for you unless you want another one and then there's a whole other industry but then eventually right when they come back in with their mother and then the mother gets a tattoo. That's like the wow that's happened. Oh yeah. Wow. The mother you know it's like the mom's like I hate this hate this. Can't stop looking at it. God this did it hurt? Wow. How long was it? What And then, you know, before you know, yeah.

Yeah, it's like the best thing. Wow. Wow. Yeah, because you in... That's like the best thing that is... Well, it's great for me. But it's also very wholesome. Because I remember in the documentary we filmed and I interviewed for it for... You told me this really interesting thing where, like,

you surprisingly get a lot of Japanese clients who are of the older generation, like maybe who are already retired who come in and get a tattoo. Because now that they're retired, they kind of like freed their... themselves from the societal shackle. Yeah, there's a lot of that. Yeah. COVID too when a lot of people weren't remote. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I think there's also a lot of circumstances in Japan right now with employment where people are just like, look, we just need people to do these jobs. I mean, remember, like, you can go into a coffee shop now, for example, and like the baristas got visible tattoos. Yeah, actually, good point. Most of the baristas that I go to, I think some of them have small tattoos. But, dude, like, remember, like years ago, you'd walk into a coffee shop. And if the girl had died her hair.

hair brown like the chapatsu. They're like, oh, it's unseemly to have dyed hair at a coffee shop. You know, it was, it was professional. Unprofessional. Yeah. Now it's just like, no one cares. Yeah, exactly. Some people still care, but I think the stuff that people should be caring about, I think people's priorities are shifting. Yeah, for sure. For sure. With the world. I mean, also, like, all those businesses have changed too, like coffee shops have changed too. It's like gone away from the old Kisotan. Oh, yeah. And a lot more of the, like, L.A. Star, yeah, totally. It's like kind of become a lot more popular. I still love those. I do love the keys of tents.

Yeah, thank you. I love a keys of town. I love that the smoke, the cigarette smoke stains on the wall are like so thick at this point. I love everything. There's nothing better and like warm feeling than walking into a place where the menu is sunbleached to shit. Love it. Oh, yeah. And you're like, oh, no, it's just going to be a nice spot.

Like a faded blue photo and you're like, it's a photo of coffee beans, but only the blue is the... If the coffee place in Japan does like those sandwiches, like the sandwich set, you know it's going to be like... It's like a great place. And it's like 350 in for a set. Yeah. It's like it is like it is a pillar of the community. They cut off the crust and sometimes they'll bring like a hard boiled egg just to like sweet. Yeah.

Yeah. A hard boiled egg. Oh my goodness. Sometimes you'll be whenever we've gone to like these remote places like you only have the Kishten for like launch or something. And it's just in this town that is, you know, no one's there. And oh, it's such homely feel like. And they're like, what are you doing here?

You're the only place in town. Yeah. Yeah. Get together a banking sandwich and a call me. It's a great. It's a great place. Yeah. It's like mom making your breakfast.

Like it's someone prepared it by hand. Like in your, like you're so spoiled by it. And it's like, yeah, I get why people enjoy Starbucks and it's great in a pinch. But, you know, when you have to have your pumpkin spice or whatever it is. But man,

there's nothing like that. Totally. I mean, you won't miss when the Starbucks gone. You'll miss when these, oh, grandma, mom and pop places are gone.

Oh, man. It's already happened a couple times. Well, I mean, it's tough right. A lot of these places, they offer menus, There's a place that I was going by that does curry for like 500 yen, I think.

And that can only exist because they, I have to assume they own the building they're operating out of. And that obviously is a thing that is going to go. That's got to be it. I always wanted the same thing too. I'm like, there's a guy sitting in this electronic store in Nibombashi. And he's still selling a Wapro, a word processor for like $600 basically. And he's still sitting there and like, you're going to buy smoking you know and no one's buying that wordpress yeah yeah yeah they

they I think because they just don't have to pay as much you know for rents right because he must have bought the bill yeah yeah for sure because there's a guy near me that I always walk by and he's naked outside what I don't think he sells anything I don't think he even he's just naked he like he like has no shirt on he's often like in like underwear smoking outside and like it is obvious that it was a store at some point but clearly at some point, it like, the earth is reclaimed it. Well, like, very much that like he gave up on the store, but the store is still there. And it's obviously that it was a store.

And it's so interesting. So I'm like, what is this? Like, what's the deal? But then sometimes his friends will come by and then they'll all be like smoking and drinking outside of his store. He's the only one that's naked. He's always naked and he looks pissed all the time. And he looks pissed that I'm looking at him.

Because I'm like, I'm just curious. I'm trying to vibe on what's going on. He's like, what's going on you? Yeah. But it's like, you. It's obvious that it was from an era where you owned the shop and it was so fascinating. But we are losing those and it is a shame because it is such a, I think a lot of the Japan vibe people associate is that. Yeah, I mean, kind of going back to what I was saying earlier when I first came here and I was kind of hanging out with like, you know, all my edgy friends when I was 20 or whatever.

And I thought it was so cool. But like even like people who were doing stuff like that, like those punk rock kids with like crazy hair and stuff like you'd, you know, party all night. wake up in the morning, you go to that quesotan. Yeah. And you're like, these guys are eating at like the little grainy kisat then with the doilies? And then you're, you know, eating those sandwiches for the first time, you're like, yeah.

Nobody's gonna be yeah. Nobody's too good for. No way. Everyone sits down and shuts up like five minutes. Exactly. Yeah, and you can still smoke cigarettes, which used to be cool. Yeah. And you can still do that now, those keys tens,

a lot of the keys tend to start smart. I mean, that's, I feel like a lot of the appeal is the, the weird kind of, uh, the beautiful combination of a coffee and a cigarette kind of... Right. I brought so many, like, friends from overseas to Japan to like,

even like the little small Isakaya, like the local Isakai's where you can smoke inside. And they're just like, wait, you can do that here? That's fucking awesome. What's the deal with... I keep hearing that they changed, like, the laws or something,

but are these guys getting exceptions? Or they're just like, I don't give a fuck. So I'd heard, and I don't know how true this is, and this is what I've heard from just talking to people is that if the boss is technically there of the establishment, the person who owns it,

you're allowed to smoke. But then I guess some places, the boss obviously isn't there. So if grandma's the boss, yeah, because I think the idea was around the rule change was that a bar, you know, like the classic kind of what Japan is known for, the bar where the guy owns it, he's the guy who's making the drinks.

It's like his store. The idea was they want to preserve that, which I think is good because like that, you know, a lot of the time that's like the only way out of this, you know, salary man, hell whole. It's like, let a guy open a bar. A little bit of self-care. Yeah.

And that guy loves to drink. So he opens up a bar. So I think there was a kind of workaround where like if you technically, the boss was still there and it's been in the shabble, it's been there for a while, it's okay. I don't know. It's a really weird gray zone. Where I feel like people are very happy to look the other way as well. Like everyone is okay with this kind of weird gray thing where it's like.

Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to mess up the vibe either because half of it's not only the food. It's like the entire vibe of being in a place. place like that. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, look, smoking can sometimes be a fucking horrible thing to be around if it's completely forced upon you in every aspect. But at a 3 a.m. bar, I think people understand that it's part of the turf,

but also part of the charm at these places. I don't smoke cigarettes, but I like being in these bars. People smoke. It really adds to the vibe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It definitely feels like culturally it's on its way out. Yeah. Australia. Holy crap. A pack of cigarettes in Australia is like more than a house. Yeah. Yeah. Like, how expensive is it for a pack now? A pack of cigarettes now is like, I think you might have to look it up, but like, I think it's like 40 bucks.

Holy shit. You fucking read. I think it's something like that. It's like status. Yeah, $41. What? A popular 25 pack is now close to $49. God. Oh, damn.

When people like travel outside, are they like, bring back the cigarettes? Oh, dude. Do you know how every time I come back home to Australia, so many friends are just like, can you bring me back a packet of Seigsborough? Yeah, no fucking kidding. So full disclosure. So when I first came to Japan,

like I used to smoke cigarettes. Well, I mean, if you're in the, I imagine, you're in the tattoo. I was alive in the neck. Yeah. But yeah,

so like, I come here and like, you know, I'm like, cigarettes in America at that time were like $3 or something. And I came to Japan and it was like, they were 175 yen.

And I was like, you can buy from the vending machine. Yeah. And I was thinking, I gotta quit. This is, I have to quit. But remember, I'm living on an island full of old people. They're all smoking.

All they do is smoking drink and fish. And that's it. And so I'm like, I'm like, I got to stop. I got to stop. And I'm walking by these vending machines and like these like mile sevens. Oh my goodness. The glow and the evening. Come and smoke, bany.

The stars under the night. There's no light pollution. Only the lone vending machine. They look so welcoming. And you're looking at the ocean, like enjoying your cigarette. So it was so hard. to quit. It was like, they do not make it easy. Yeah.

It was way too affordable. I've, uh, to go back to the, the tattoo conversation. I, I always wanted to know this. What is the weirdest place on the human body that you've had to tattoo? Because I'm sure there are some places in the human body. Oh my gosh. Because I've also heard from my other tattoo artist friends some stories, but like, for you, what's like the weirdest request where you're like, I want this tattoo here? I mean, I'm sure without explicitly answering this question. Everybody already knows like the answer,

but like it's straight up the genitalia. Oh yeah, like I mean, what could be weird or like the inside of your nostril or like your canal or something like I guess? Have you ever had to tattoo a butthole? Before we began today,

I was asked, is there anything you're not comfortable talking about? And I was like, nah, whatever. The answer is yes. And it was, man, this. What did you? Did you have an internal battle when you, when that was a, like, question was asked to you? Were you like, oh, yeah.

I got to draw a line, but is this it? Yeah, yeah. So this is very early in my career and it was like, it's like, just, you know, weird old Japanese dude came in. Right. I, uh, sorry. My asshole. Oh, my goodness. He brought up.

Arnold's touch, okay, is. He brought this wrinkled piece of paper out of his pocket. it and uncrumpling it on the counter and like it pushes it forward. And it's like this drawing. Okay. Like kind of like two legs on a butthole. And he's like drawn these like ants and he's like, can you make it look for there's ants crawling out of my ass?

Oh my God. And I'm like, I'm like, no, man. Like we really don't do that here. And then like, you know, this is back when like I had all these like very. like very cruel semai. Yeah. Right. And remember,

hi, so there was an atmosphere that you can't really like refuse things to show the studio. And so they're like, you know, like you can't just the shop's reputation is saying, you can't just tell this guy to leave. And I'm like,

oh my God. So I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to think quick here. I'm like, I'll price this guy out of the shop. Yeah. I'll just tell him it's like a bajillion dollars.

Yeah. So I think and remember this is, the end was worth more back then. Yeah, but I think I told him, okay, this is going to be like Jumanan. Yeah.

And after the cut the shop was taking at the time, I was making nothing. I was like if I went home with like a McDonald's wage at the end of the day. Whatever that was at the time. But yeah. So I'm like, okay, man, like it's going to be like, you know, June on it. It's going to be like, whatever, a grand. And I'm thinking to myself, get out of this. And then the guy's like, oh, do you.

Yeah, yeah. But then you're going to get a cut. And he had this look on his face like, oh, that's more reasonable than I estimated. You're like, shit, I could have done two bands. I'm like, God damn. Oh, man. And so like, this guy is like, you know, and I'm like, I don't even know how am I going to get this guy to like sit? Because I don't want to like sit there and try to like, splurge your butt.

Oh my God, dude. It was like so. So wait, for context, how old was this guy? Like, roughly. So at the time. Like, how old are we talking? Just to give you a sense of the proportions here, I think I was 25. Yeah.

Or 26. Yeah. And he would have been 55 or 56. Enough well. You know when men begin to smell as they age? That had started out. So, and this isn't just the smell of the arsele, by the way. This is like the cut ashoe.

This is the old man smell mixed with some tobacco in his clothes just to bring it full circle. And so he's just like, like, oh, I'm like, all right, well, you know. So I'm, I got this guy with the legs doubled up over his head. And I'm sitting there and like everyone's standing. And all my semper, they're just howling. That is not how I would have imagined the position to be. Yeah. He presents his butthole to you eyes.

I tried to think, how do I get this? Because I'm not going to stretch the skin. I want to touch this thing as little as posse. Because you have to stretch the skin on the area and then tattoo it with the other hand, right? So I'm like, I'm going to have him stretch it so I can only, and I'm wearing gloves. Yeah. But even so. Yeah.

It feels like I'm wearing nothing at all. So the day he came in, did you tattoo him the same day? No, it was the same day. This is like, this all happened very fast. So were you like, can you go in the toilet, you know, Biday up first, you know. I was someone who had to go in the toilet and look in the mirror like, what is going on.

He's clean, bro. He's ready. I was like, I was having to get my game face on. Like, so anyway, I'm like also bargaining with myself like their ants. And the ants are this big.

So it's like three dots and a couple little legs. Yeah. Like, and he wanted, I think like, three or four ants. I'm like, I'll get this done maybe with my dignity sort of intact.

And it'll be 15 minutes. I'll have all this money. And then I can like buy food and not diet. Yeah. I was like, okay. So I'm going to have him. do this. And so he's on the bench and he gets this thing like ready to go. And I like,

an additional smell begins to emanate from the wet dungeon walls. Like this is like a nightmare scenario. Like TLDR. I heard no one's eating while listening to this. Sorry. Yeah, this was not the story I was expecting to tell today. Here we are. So, no, I, I finished this thing and, you know, I got paid. And my sempai thought this was hilarious. They were all like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Well, you know, you have to do things like this once in a while. I'm like, I do. And now, and then, you know, eventually, I would take an apprentice on. But by then, like, the cultural zeitgeist had shifted. And they're, they're like, I'm not doing that. You're like, well, okay. Yeah, I guess I can't tell young people what to do. We were the last generation to have to do that. It's

fine. Jesus. So, yeah. But I remember after that, I'm like, even though I got paid, I was like, I was like, that was horrible. Yeah, yeah. Like, why did I do that? Why did I, I should have done anything but do that? Yeah. So, like, I remember, like, I went out to like, I'm going to buy the really nice sushi for myself. Yeah.

I'm not going to eat onigitties from the, I'm going to treat myself. Yeah, right. And while I'm trying to eat the sushi, all I could think about was like the footprint that was left in my olfactory senses from this assault of smells. and like I got sick and could not finish my food and had to leave. It was like if you've ever wondered, you know, at some point in your life, you're going to have your highest point

and you're going to have your lowest point. And you have to live for a while to be like, I wonder where my lowest lowest point is. And I think like all things consider my living situation, I think that was probably like pretty close. Yeah. I mean, I was still employed and I still got paid. So it still like was something.

Yeah. But they're also, I think, I'm sure. that made you question like, you know what? Is it worth it? There are some things that are just not worth it. I mean, it did because it was like sort of like, I wasn't doing like, I was just doing stuff that walked in the door. So I wasn't like, you know, no, I've got this client base. Now, I've got this like thing that I do. I've got these things that I'm trying to push. I'm

feeling very like self-actualized as an artist on that. That hierarchy of needs and like, I feel really good about where I am with my life right now. But like, yeah, in that moment, I was like, you're going to transfer it. Is this ever going to go into like anything? Like, is this like what I was born to do? This is like, this. is fucking terrible. And also, too, like I felt like I couldn't say no. Like all those Senpai were like, you know,

at the time too, like they were scary. Yeah. And also too, like I kind of felt I don't have this mindset anymore, but I definitely had that mindset at the time. Like,

I'm in Japan. This is their country. It's their rules. I need to play whatever they say like goes and that's the Japanese way. Not really thinking. Yeah. That there are many different people in Japan

with many different points of view and just because something is called Trump doesn't mean everybody. Yes. Yeah. And they totally were. And like, no, I'm like,

well, okay, they were fucking with me. about it now, but I think in the moment, man, no. It's totally traumatized. Also, what a weird fucking request as well. I mean, like, why? Yeah, that guy came all things to tattoo on your ass. That guy

came in like a week later and he was like, can you tattoo a gecko on my penis? And I was like, ah, I'm booked out. I got something. The semps weren't there and I managed to like, I was like, I was like, so far. So that was when the boundary was established. That was the beginning of boundary says. I just can't imagine

having a like hold. to like draw on it. So I need you to get a little bit hard just so the skin is a little bit more torn. My goodness. My goodness. Yeah, I mean, genitals because they move so much. Yeah.

It's pretty hard to get them. Jeez. Yeah. Fuck that. Yeah. That's crazy, dude. Yeah, I mean, I guess sometimes though, like, it is good to have crazy experiences like that.

Yeah, you need some crazy experiences, I think, in life to make you appreciate being normal and living of normal life. I mean, does everyone have to go through that? Maybe not. Maybe not. Yeah, maybe not. You can be the guy watching you do it instead and be like, no, I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. I'm going to try heroin. I'm fine. I'm okay. I can learn through the example of others. Yeah. Actually, another question I wanted to ask you, I didn't get to ask in the documentary is, what do you think about tattooing eyeballs? Oh. Ah. So that's like kind of a newish thing that's happening, right? It's a bit, well, it's actually is, this is my pedant thing coming out.

again. It's actually this old, like, ancient Egyptian ritual that they did. Oh, really? And I think people call it colloquially, colloquially, colloquially. Yes, that. Yeah. They call it, um, like, eyeball tattooing, whereas it, to me, it falls like more like body modding, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, whatever. That's just semantics. But yeah, I mean, they literally insert deposits of ink around the eyeball and the white part. And it soaks in. And like, I mean, if you want to like, look, uh, outstanding and like, Yeah, like, it'll be, you look at someone like, you're like, whoa, especially if they have like light colored eyes. Yeah.

Because it's such a, we're used to seeing human eyes like all the time. It's like what humans react to most is other human eyes. And so when you see it, you're like, oh. So if that's like uncanny value. Yeah. If you want to have like that cool like uncanny appeal. Like I see why people do it. Yeah.

However, I, my God. That makes my stomach chill. I would not. Yeah. You only have two eyes. Man, like, like. It's also incredibly dangerous, right? Like people have gone blind.

Yeah, man. I would say so. especially if you're going to like whatever, Zeke, the dude up the street with the rusty screwdriver. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, the ancient of Jitjim's did it too, but like, I'm sure. They also built pyramids.

I mean, allegedly. Yeah. Yeah, allegedly. Who even knows. I mean, yeah, I don't judge. If people want to do body mod and things like that. Like, if it makes you happy, if it go for it, like I would never do anything like that. It's outside the purview of what I do.

Yeah, right. Right. Before we start wrapping up. obviously you opened your store in Tokyo. Oh, yes. What is the, like, why Tokyo? Why did you move from Osaka out to Tokyo? So I could be closer to Joey.

Oh, thanks, Danny. I know that's a lie, but. It's part of a larger fabric, though. I mean, I had been in Osaka for like two decades. And that's a long time to be in any city, at least for me. And like, I did a lot of amazing things in the time I had there. But just increasingly, like the collaborations we were doing, the stuff we were doing with our clothing line,

the stuff we were doing with, you know, like we did like that pop-up at like Harjukula for it, right? And like, just increasingly working with anime companies and manga companies and like working with IP and doing license stuff. It's like all these, you know, you're like, yeah, let's have a meeting. Yeah, cool, cool. Like, what's the closest station on the Yamanote line? It'd be like, Shin Sai Bashi.

So eventually it was just like, I've got to go up there. And I found myself going to Tokyo like once a month. And of course, there's this famous rivalry between Osaka and Tokyo and like, oh, like one city is bled and the other and blah, blah, but I'm like, I don't know, man. Like, I have a good time every time I'm in Tokyo. Yeah. I never have a bad time.

And like, eventually it was just like, I, Osaka was very comfortable. I love that city. It's just like wrapping up in a warm blanket that like you wear on like a cold night. Like it feels good. The food is good. The people are funny. Like, all the things people say about that town are true.

Like, that's why I love it. I live there, you know? And even for like someone like myself who's like, you know, I'm a forer and I'm an outside. and I'm doing a profession that's generally frowned upon. And people still welcome me in that city. So I felt like not only Japan has been a good second home to me, but, you know, Osaka especially. So it really like hurt to like, to be away from those people.

But there's new challenges and things I still want to do. And like, you know, I joke about being old, but like I'm not so old that I can't do a new challenge. For me, that's what opening Tokyo was about. We had other people that wanted to join our crew. Somebody, Laura Ananaki from Mexico, we arranged her visa to come work with us full time. Yeah. And then my friend Mika, she had her own studio. She closed her studio down to join our studio.

So slowly but surely, yeah, bringing some more of the friends into the fold. Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, yeah, making a cool environment. We have a really good crew, really good people. And I'm really lucky to have them. I could not have done this Tokyo move by myself like it would have been impossible. Yeah. Sounds pretty daunting.

If people wanted to get a tattoo, where should they reach out to you? Yeah. So the best place to hit us up is at our official website, which is invasion. club. And there is a link in the navigation that takes you to our kind of tattoo yo yaku form. What do you say? Reservation form?

Reservation form. My God. Preservation form. Yeah. And then you just put in your input and like who you're looking to book with. And we all have different booking schedules. We particularly close our books and open them again. But yeah, that's where people can find us.

Our merch is also there on the site. Yeah, if anyone wants to check it out. Yeah, man. And that new Tokyo's you have to is so far. Oh, I want to see it. Thank you, man. It's sick as fine. two years to find that location and get someone to rent to me.

Like just one more little quick story here. The realtor, I was on my eighth realtor. And I remember the guy. Oh, yeah, tattoo studio. That's like, no. And my friend introduced me to this guy's young. He's like 26. Yeah.

And I'm like, man, can this guy really, this seems like an old man's game. Can he really find us a cool pad? And like boom, boom, boom. He's not emailing us. He's using like line like a normal person. Right. He's sending us all these. And like, he hooks it up.

And I'm like, how did you hook it up so fast? He's like, well, I work with clients who have like weird jobs such as tattooers. I'm like, what other clients do you work with all the time? He's like, oh, YouTubers. And they're totally very fucking difficult to get any kind of people to rent to us or, you know, trust us. They just think reprise. And to be fast, I'm a good amount of those. Yeah, they're not entirely wrong.

That closed my mind, though. Like, I didn't realize that it was like almost like a stigma to get a property if you're like a youth. I mean, in Japan, it's like just being self-employed in any kind of thing. It's already just like a red flag. Like, what's wrong with you? Yeah, let alone, it's like, wait, so you're self-employed and you make money on the internet, doing what exactly? You know? And they don't really like the inconsistency of it.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, you're making a million bucks now, but you can fall off tomorrow. Yeah. So it's like, how am I going to trust you that you'll be here for the next five years to pay off you or whatever, right? Oh, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, we finally got it linked up. We got a nice place.

And, yeah, we're happy to be open now. We've kind of had a soft launch, but yeah, this week it's the official open. at the time of recording. Hell yeah. Yeah. That's so sick, man. Well, thanks for having you today, guys. I know nothing about tattoos.

I can't as well. Yeah, this was such an interesting, yeah, wealth of, like, just stories and just learning something new, honestly. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

And if you want to, again, like, if you're in Japan and you want to get a tattoo while you're here, this is the man hit up. So go and do that. Links in the description. But, hey, look at all these patrons on screen. Ben, Ben, Ben, point to your favorite Patreon. They're on screen right now. you in the back.

In the back. Upper left. Oh, I'm a bad guy. In the green shirt. Hell yeah. But hey, if you want to check out the Patreon and support us

because every single week we do Patreon exclusive weekly content. In fact, we have a brand new one that you guys can go check out right after this one. But if you want to check that out and support the show on the process,

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And we'll see you guys next week. Bye.