Trash Tuesday w/ Esther Povitsky & Khalyla Kuhn - Marc Maron Goes Feral

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

BTS, BONUS CONTENT AND MORE! Only on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TrashTuesdayPodcast     GET IT BEFORE ITS GONE - https://trashtuesday.myshopify.com/ Kittens are running wild as Marc Maron dives into his insane life. Freudian Mommy Issues, his love life, his battle with hypochondria, and the politics of comedy. Huge THANK YOU to the Burbank Animal Shelter for letting us spend the day Edith and Tony! SLUGGIES adopt, don’t shop! Visit your local animal shelter today.MORE MARC! https://www.instagram.com/marcmaron/?hl=en https://www.wtfpod.com/ BURBANK ANIMAL SHELTER! https://www.burbankca.gov/web/parks-recreation/burbank-animal-shelter-homepage Thank you to our sponsors:Shop SKIMS Cotton, and all of our favorite pieces, at https://skims.com/trashtuesdayBeducated has an awesome quiz that will recommend a personalized roadmap to sexual happiness just for you. Right now, click Trash Tuesday – https://beduc.at/pd2635-trash to kick off your personal pleasure journey.Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/9vos470a #CashAppPod.Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card.  Discounts and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures.*Ebb Ocean Club is NOW IN SEPHORA* https://www.sephora.com/brand/ebb-ocean-club for Khalyla’s reef safe and biodegradable hair products! *Listen to Esther's New Solo Pod!* https://www.esthersgrouptherapy.substack.com FOLLOW TRASH ON SOCIALS: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itstrashtuesday Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrashtuesday MORE ESTHER:TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@esthermonster Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esthermonster/ MORE KHALYLA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/khalamityk/ Tigerbelly Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@UCIyIoM_Nd8HtY19fuR_ov2A   PRODUCTION:Studio Ten42: https://www.instagram.com/studioten42/ Guy Robinson: https://www.instagram.com/grobfps/ Arielle Jade (Editor): https://www.instagram.com/jade.rabbit.cce/ Elisa Hernandez Kohler: https://www.instagram.com/ellie.lianna/ Megan Clements:  https://www.instagram.com/egggymeg/   See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A man should be sad. Like, that's masculinity to me. Really? Yeah. When that, like, verges on the inability to express any kind of joy and gratitude. I don't think it should. I think that could be peppered in. I mean, do you feel like you're a sad man? You're a sad guy, right? You're not happy. What do you think, Esther? Skims. I love skims. I love the Skims Cotton Collection. The Scoot bra. I have about seven of them. shop Skims Cotton and all of our favorite pieces at skims.com. After you placed your order, be sure to let them know we sent you, select podcast in the survey, and be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. I feel like I need to stop somewhere. Where do you need to stop? I think I might need to stop at REI.

Yes. For what? Wait, for hiking? What's going on? Maybe. Maybe look at some new shoes for the hiking. You hike. I do. But my body's falling apart right now. But maybe some big toebox shoes. Like those Alta's. Alta. Yeah. The Keens have the wide toebox too. I have Keens now. Okay. But they're

kind of beat up. I love. They just have so many cool collabs, I think. Do they? Yes. Yes, they do. Like who? My favorite new Keen one is the open, the water shoe, the sandal. Yeah. With all the little side things on it. Okay. Okay. Try those because they still have the grippy bottom. What's the matter with you, Mommy? The cat got your tongue? You guys are getting so deep into hiking shoes that I'm like, I'm in over my head. You're lost? You're lost in your new balances? 100%. I've been wearing this since I was 18. I buy a new pair every year. She is. Yeah. Well, new balances have. I hike in these. Why do you need hiking shoes?

Why not just use sneakers? It's going up. If you're going up. I go up and sneakers, maybe. How up do you go? I mean, it's been a minute. But I mean, what about like the hard? one at Runyon, I've done that. Is that, are you going up more than that? Yeah, I'm going up a little more than that. Like, if it's gravelly, you know, like you want to have, you got to have traction. Like, where I go out behind the brand library in Glendale, up that straight one, 50 minutes up, like, you do not want

to be slipping. Are you still vegan? I am. I've had enough, though. What's going on? Wait, how long have you been vegan? I've had enough, too. You have? Well, of you being vegan. I feel like you need to not be vegan. Wait, why is everyone saying that? I was. My parents and I went vegan. Plant-based. Vegan's get upset because I'm wearing, you know. You can't be a V. They're so, like, this is the whole problem with progressives in general.

I say I'm vegan and a bunch of fucking cunts. You know, like, and I use that as a broad gender word for men and women. Got it. We'll be like, you're not, you're not vegan. You know, you're still like, you know, you're still wearing leather. And it's like, can't you at least give me a little pat on the back? Yeah, welcome me in. 90% less animal death. They were going to throw this away anyways. I had nothing to do with that.

Why are you getting sick of being plant-based? Are you ready for some eggs and some chicken skin? No. What do you want? I don't find that I miss things really, but the truth is because I'm having all kinds of weird, you know, kind of mental and body issues lately. And also the reason I got into it was to literally see if you could lower your cholesterol. Yeah. And you didn't. Right. Not much. Yeah. It's just a genetic thing. Yeah. Hyper cholesterolemia. No, it's never been really that high. Like I kind of peaked out at 225, 227. I'm not bad. No. But like I did want to see if I could manage it. And now like that's kind of a bust. And the truth is you busted out on. Yeah, it didn't do that.

And I don't feel fucking great. Yeah. Like, you know, whatever it's supposed, like the inflammation, whatever. My sugar is not great. And also, like, what is it doing for me? And then just to sort of counter it in order to get B12 and your omegas. I mean, you've got to be aware. You got to do it responsibly to get all the shit you need, which is fine.

But like, I'm bored of it. Yeah. Of the food. because you eat the same food. What are you eating for like sugary stuff? Well, I've been pretty good lately, but I eat a lot of those lifesavers because I got off the nicotine. Lifesavers. That is so sad.

No, no, like I just do them instead of the zins. I quit nicotine like four months ago. I quit a lot of shit, you know, to see what was going on with my body, you know? Are you freaking out from quitting? Like, how are you handling it? It's been four months. But like I do end up eating those, you know, this dumb wintergreen. Yeah.

My question is, given that I'm having some weird body issues in terms of like tingling and stuff, like what? I also got a full body scam because Pauly kind of bullied everybody into it. Oh, did a pre-newvo? I did. How to go. You did? Yeah. You're so young.

What did you fucking think you were going to find? Some weird stuff. We had some random lesions. I did. Everyone does. Yeah. I think we had some fun incidental findings. Yeah.

Oh, did you do it in partnership with them? Yeah. Sorry. free pre-no. Well, no, what do I care? They asked me to do that, but I'm like, what if it turns out bad? Will you tell us your results? Yeah, yeah. I mean, my results were okay for my age, but I'm worried, I feel like your tingling is low B-12. No, it's not. I'm fucking jacked on B-12. Jacked. Because that is something you have to do your, when you're plant-based. Yeah, you have to. And I use that spray. If anything, I've got too much now. Like, I, I,

got blood test and it was a little, my B12 was okay, my D was a little low, my zinc was a little low. But then he starts supplementing at stuff and all of a sudden you've got too much. I know. I'm all zinced up. So here's what I have. Have scoliosis a bit. Oh, did you know that about yourself? I feel like I might have.

Yeah. So middle school of you. It is. It's not kind of a hot girl. Yeah. There are severe degenerative changes in your cervical spine. What part? C3, C4, C5, C6, C6, C6, C6, C7.

seven. Do you have neck pain? Yes. And I have desiccated discs. Oh, what desiccated? That's like how I consume liver. They desiccated and put it in little pills. Oh, no. Well, the disc, like, if you have a bulge or hernia, at least your disc is still full of stuff. Like, desiccated means they're dried out. They're like little fucking dried apricots. What can you do? Fucking nothing. I don't know. You confuse them, maybe? I'm not doing that. I'm not getting surgery until I can't walk. heard you say something on a podcast recently and I want to get the exact quote right you said young men would rather hate things than have sex I'd say young men would that rather hate than fuck yeah or hate than come is what I say is that you think it's just a new thing a new generation a younger generation thing or is that

all young men you know it's like the truth is it's like you you know getting late was never that easy and if you're a young dude like I don't know when it was easy I mean, when I was in high school or junior higher, whenever the fuck this is happening, there was usually one or two dudes that were fucking, but not everybody. So I don't know when it's become a choice that it seems like there are some nihilistic and sort of broken young dudes who are putting all this energy into looking a certain way and not engaging with women, yet having a lot to say about, who women are and why they don't want to engage in women, yet making themselves awfully pretty.

So I don't really know what that's all about, but I do know that some of that energy can be guided into certain types of hate or fascistic sort of leanings. Like, you know, sexual repression has always been a driver of a lot of bad things. Period. But I don't know that young guys getting not being able to get late is anything new.

Right. But you have to make an ideology out of it. Was there an equivalent of the manosphere when you were growing up as a young man? Was there equivalent of like,

okay, there's some level of like repressed you know, non-fucking rage that was existing when you, around you when you were a young guy? Sure,

but like, you know, you either put it into, I mean, you know, you put it into punk rock or metal music or or Dungeons and Dragons or whatever the fuck you were going to do. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. There was no there was no influencers guiding these dudes into nefarious things or or into sending

them money. So like it was that it's all a product of influencers, you know, and this this con job economy of content providing platforms, right? So if you've got a bunch of young guys who are listening to you shit on women and watching you beat up gay guys and then asking you to send them money to put it in their their investment fund, you know, it's like, I don't know, that that didn't exist. And, you know, I don't know what there was no nanosphere. There was definitely like the jocks are over in that part of that school. Yeah. And we're over here.

Yeah. It was a simple time. Well, there was no, they didn't have this fucking monster. How do we do it? The brain fuck machine. So Esther and I both have sons. Yeah. And this is like our...

You've got a son too? Yeah, I do. When did you do that? He's almost two. But we have sons now. Were you a good son to your mother? We asked this question to every man we've met lately. I was, I mean, the better question is the other way.

Yeah. Was she a good mom? No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Why not? I think it's a different time. She was 22 years old.

Oh, well. She was married to my dad who was, you know, whatever he was. It was what you did, you know. She emotionally was not together or, you know, didn't have a real sense of self. So I think, you know, initially because my dad was like, you know, trying to become a doctor, so he was never around. So the bond was, you know, intense, inappropriate, emotionally. demanding for me as a kid. I don't know.

There's a story that I've told before in terms of whatever the hell is wrong with my mother about me when I was a kid, like two or three, I guess. And I was around a coffee table and somehow I fell and slammed my head on the table and was crying. And my mother in that moment looked at me and then slammed her head on the table. Two. Interesting move. What is that impulse? I guess it's empathetic but selfish.

Like I want to see what kind of pain is you done. But you would think the instinct would be to grab the kid. Yes. It's a twisted story, but it's a real story. It's disturbing. Instinctually, it's like now that I have a kid, I can't imagine not one. Are you okay, grabbing?

What do you interpret that she was doing there? Have you talked to her about it? Do you remember? Look, man, I have nothing fundamentally against my parents. Like, you know, I understand they're flawed people. And they just weren't good parents, you know, emotionally. Like in weird ways, you know, it's not just standard. Like, it would have been better if they were just, you know, beaten on me, you know,

as opposed to sort of being so self-involved themselves and so filled with panic and so young that they were exhausting, you know, my ability to sort of develop a sense of self because of their needs, right? Can you give an example of that, like what that looks like? Well, if you're really not capable of some sort of, you know, selfless love. Yeah. Because of your own fears or your own selfishness, you know, what you're presenting is love is really just worry, right? And it's also, you know, a constant sort of like you're acting impulsively and apologizing a lot.

Like, you know, either you're yelling or you're making mistakes. And, you know, there's no, you don't really, you know, give the kid an opportunity to sort of detach and make his own mistakes and just be supportive. You're always in a state of panic and, you know, somewhat overprotective, but also more worried about yourself than the kid. Like I believe that they were worried about us because they didn't want anything to happen to them in a way. Do you and your brother sort of like corroborate and have the same experience? Yeah, yeah. His was a little worse, I think. Why was his worse? Well, because like when I was born, like, I was the first grandchild of all four grandparents.

So I had a lot of like support early on. You do have first grandchild energy. Yeah. Yeah, I was like the happy baby. I was everyone like my mom's mom. probably saved me, you know, my life in a way, just because she was very capable of being a loving person. I guess my brother was a real crybaby,

and my mom used to lock him in a room because she couldn't handle it. And turns out he's kind of, he's lactose intolerant, so he's probably in pain. And then there was like, there was no breastfeeding then, no breastfeeding. We're all formula. Both of us are cesarean. You know, there's a lot of distance.

Do you have any, like young, young memories of you huddled up with your mom or feeling warmth and the warm, fuzzies, the cozy and being like, oh, I love where I'm at with my mom. No, no, I can't. I can't. The idea of hugging my mother is just disturbing. What, um, I think at some point that's biologically appropriate for you to be like, I don't want to hug my parents, right? No, I think she was profoundly needy and lonely. And, you know, she says, you know, that I was her best friend when I was a baby. Esther. What? I I do have all the bad instincts of like a toxic Jewish mom already with my son.

She came over at the pool the other day. And you're like, do you feel as though your son's your boyfriend? And I said, no. I was surprised. I felt like my mom was leaning on me emotionally well into too old, too old. Like there's like certain things I remember, you know, like, like it was panicky. And she was very vain and very, you know, like put together. She's very anorexic and like always was, you know, she had fake boobs, blonde hair.

We always really tight pants, just flouting it, flouting around, flirting with everybody. Were you ever like a mama's boy where you were like super attached to her? No. Never. Like as soon as I could tell those two to fuck off, I did. And it saved my life probably. How do you feel that her as your mom has like affected like what you're attracted to? two in women? Like, are you looking for the opposite? Are you looking for certain things like her or not

at all? I really don't know what my mother is emotionally. I don't know. Did you ever get to know her in a different way in, you know, when you got older? Was there ever like a point where you just like, you know, I think she's in a different stage now and I am too. Maybe I can understand. I think the only thing, like, I think that what was heartbreaking about my mother is that I think that she wanted to be an artist. She's a substitute teacher taught art classes. She's a substitute teacher. She was a painter, and I think she really wanted to do that. And then, like, at some point, you know, I was old. That's probably maybe in college, maybe late in high school, that, you know, she got into the master's program at UNM and wanted to paint.

But then just couldn't cut it. You know, she felt too old. And then, you know, she went into like several different housewife businesses eventually. And, you know, also my dad was a, you know, a massive fuck around. So, like, there was a lot of strain. Like, I have empathy. for whatever she was. But as a mother,

she caused me nothing but anxiety. Oh, wow. Like, she was hyper-sexualized person, you know, and, like, I didn't like the way, like, I didn't like being hugged by her or any of it. Like, I used to, like, I used to bring girlfriends down to Florida

when I'd visit her just to, you know, run defense. It's so interesting. Wait, was it, because did you, like, I know Pete Holmes sort of covered this in his show crashing, his mom. I don't know. Did you ever watch any of that? No, he annoys me. Basically in his show, he depicts how his mom, like, was in love with him and was, like,

really touchy with him. And, like, you know, it seemed like this was a woman that, like, wanted to fuck her son. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got that, yeah. There was some of that, yeah. Standard Freudian stuff going on. No, not. Freudian is just an interpretation of edible stuff. But, like, like, when that stuff, like, you know, that Freud made that assumption for everyone. that there was an edible connection. But, you know, when shit gets real, that's not Freudian, it's disturbing. It is really disturbing. And it's not, you know, like the idea that all men are edible on some level, that's a theory.

I've always hated that, too, because I really don't want to believe that a mother's son connection has to even, like, exist in that realm. No. I just think that as people develop and, you know, like, who knows? I mean, I don't think it's unusual. I mean, you're going to figure out sexuality somewhere or another. And, you know, the first time you're aware that your mom has a pussy and tits and they represent something other than what they used to, you know, it's a big day. Did you have naked parents or clothed parents? Nakey parents.

I did too. I had naked parents. It's the worst. You had clothed parents, right? I don't even know anymore. I'm questioning everything now. You had cloth parents, but they talked about sex openly. Yeah.

And that's what bothered you. That makes me deeply uncomfortable. Yeah. Is them like thinking it's funny to like insinuate like that they're sexual and like around me. Both of my parents were very sexual and very hip and very kind of pretty. You know, I don't know what was going on. I wouldn't say they were swingers, but they, you know, I don't know. That was the, I was born in 63 to a 22 year old mom.

So in 69, yeah, she was what? 29. Not 28, 28. Yeah. 28. I say 69, the culture was like crazy. Everybody's dressing up. Everyone's like looking groovy. By the early 70s, she's, what, 31? And I'm like an eight. And it's just that world. It's also so crazy, like, in that context, but like adding just now what I know about like what it's like to have two young children,

it is nearly impossible to take care of two kids on your own. And like, how does a young woman who's 22 even, like, survive that? Before they left Jersey, she dumped us at our grandparents. But, you know, we moved to Alaska when I was six. My dad was in the Air Force for two years, 69, 71. We were in Anchorage. My brother's two and a half years younger than me. In talking about, like, my mother, like, I'm doing a joke about her. Like, I'm doing a joke about having gotten my sense of humor from her.

Like, on stage from a story I've had for years because I remember it. But the things I got from my mother was an interest in art. You know, like she was very persistent about, you know, we would travel to the East Coast, the Museum of Modern Art, to see big retrospectives. She was very, you know, into painting, wanted to paint. So, like, there was the one thing about having young, emotionally immature or selfish parents is that there wasn't, there was no discipline because they were always nervous. There was, yeah, there were outbursts of yelling, you know, some grabbing, you know, you. you know, mad, but there was no routine of right and wrong. You know, they were always supportive, if not passive, about whatever I was doing.

Yeah. You know, when I became interested in the stuff I became interested in, you know, it was just sort of okay. At some point, I wanted to be a good student because, like, you know, I had this dad who was his doctor who was not around that much and very volatile. So you go through these different phases of wanting to kind of please each parent in a different way. But I do think I grew to appreciate my mother's struggle after a certain point. Do you think that she is satisfied in her life with having been a mother?

No. No. No, my mother said to me when I was like in my 50s, like 15 years ago maybe. Like I used to go down there to Florida and cook Thanksgiving dinner When her sister my cousins are down there Her sister's down there And she was like she just said you know out of nowhere I was sitting there prepping food

And she was like you know Mark When you were when you were a baby I don't think I knew how to love you I mean she said that So like that's sort of like a big puzzle piece I guess that puts a lid on that No more therapy for me Did you say like what do you mean by that

Like, did she expand on that? No, I got it. One sentence. All you need it. I mean, like, I see, I have a picture of her holding me when I was like, you know, like six weeks old with like, like, like, like, what? And then what about though, you as like all your adult life success? Like, how did she react to that then through the years? Has she been like, oh my God, I can't believe.

Like, I made this little like intelligent, successful comedian. I think I always thought that I was going to be all right. I think I sort of outgun them early on. Oh, but the story. I tell, you know, about the sense of humor. It's like, I remember we were on a ski trip with another Jew family, the Leffinfelds, whose kids were a little younger than me and my brother. I guess we were at the dinner at the lodge or whatever, and the adults were talking.

And someone had brought up, like, what if you were stranded in the snow and, you know, and you were forced to eat the people you were with? You know, like, what part would you eat first? And my mom was like, I guess the penis. at least I'm used to that, you know. And I was too young to really put it together, but not too young to not remember. Poor memory solidified. But look, man, I don't know.

Because of all that, you know, like I don't feel the same type of closeness, I think, that people feel to their parents. I would never look for really emotional support from either of them or really advice from either of them for my life. And I didn't. my dad was a doctor, so there was a lot of bonding over, like, am I dying? But, you know, and I talk about, like, really not wanting to call. I call my dad today. He didn't answer.

But he's got dementia now. And my mom's kind of losing it, but she's in Florida. My dad's, you know, in New Mexico. My brother's dealing with my mom. Thank God. That's really nice. I don't want to deal with either of them. My dad's wife's dealing with him.

My brother's dealing with my mother. I don't know what would happen if I had a deal with my mother. I love skims. Oh my gosh, I'm wearing skims cotton right now. I'm wearing the scoop neck cotton bra. And I'm wearing the cotton underwear. I've been wearing at least four days a week. The skims cotton fold over pants. I love those. They're great for walking around the city, lounging at home and going to dance class. I can move so freely in them, but I'm fully covered up. Like, I'm just not going to be someone that wears shorts in the summer. I don't know how. How? it is. I'm always wearing a full-length pant. I'm never wearing a skinny ankle pant because I'm too short. It's not flattering. The fold-over pants with a flare are where it's at. Those are stretchy. They are comfortable, but like skin hugging in all the right ways. I actually have a parent small and medium. Both sizes fit me well. So I like that flexibility there. You can shop Skims Cotton and all of our favorite pieces at skims.com after you place to order. Be sure to let them know

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Kick off your journey by clicking the link in the episode description. I've got a cat I love, but he's just so violent to the other cats. They can't live. I have to keep them separate all the time, and it's really a drag for everybody. Yeah. But he's a great guy. I just think he'd be better in a single cat home. Yeah.

Some cats need to be solo. I've had him since he was two weeks old, so he didn't get enough time. Two weeks old? Yeah, because there was a feral litter next door, and she was moving them around, you know, and they were under my steps. And I took him. I saved him from a life of, you know, prostitution and drug use. Oh, yeah, you did.

Well, that's what happened with my dog, Julio. He was dumped at two weeks. I started bottle feeding him. His brain didn't develop. and so he is extremely aggressive, obviously not to Austin, but to new people and other animals. No, my guy's really lovable.

He just doesn't like this other cat. And they're all males. Oh. We have to name these. How about Eity? Eity is cute. Eadie is cute. You can be Eighty right until someone takes you

and calls you something else. Maybe this guy's Tony. Tony. I feel like Tony's a spirit. I like classic names. I have Charlie, Sammy, and Buster. Aw, I love Sammy. Sammy's a dummy.

He's like Switzerland. He gets along with both of them. Here, Tony, show your face. Chubby, orange tabby, Sammy. He's smarter than I let on. He just doesn't, you know. Our babies are up for adoption? Yes, through the Burbank Animal Shelter.

So if you guys are interested, go find Tony and go find Edie. She's really pretty. She is pretty. She's a calico. She is pretty. Oh, oh, oh. I wish I could have cats. Where are you going?

I see how it's so easy to just have 14 cats and just call it a life. I have three. Do your cats like sleep with you and love on you? Sammy's odd. He doesn't be like, he's not a big lover. Busters, he's like, you got to get the hang of him. He doesn't, you know, he's not outwardly loving, but like he just kind of doesn't want it. but he does.

No. So they're all like me. And Charlie, like, will, the violent one, he sweeps with me. And, you know, somewhere around 4 in the morning, he decides, like, to be a loving cat for about a half hour. And then, you know, come morning, it's over. I used to do a joke about that, about how I've had all these cats. And I'm like, I keep getting these fucked up cats.

They're all tweaked out. And I said, it's taken me like 20 years to realize it's me. Like, you know, they're acting in relation to me. And I just don't talk to them properly. Another thing that you said recently that I had to write down because I related so hard was someone asked you. What? Someone asked you if you have health LCD and you said, well, if I have symptoms and if I have time, I have symptoms. Was that like an off the cup thing you said or is that like?

Yeah, I think it was. That was so perfect for me to hear. It's so real. Because at first I was like, oh, he doesn't really have it. And then, oh, it's like, yeah, he does. Oh, no, I was total hypochondriac for so much of my life. And now, like, I have all this insanity with the tingly stuff. It's really driving me crazy.

It drives me crazy. I have a long history of fighting hypochondria. What would your advice be to young you or anyone or yourself about how to do with health OCD? Well, I just weren't to identify anxiety symptoms, but also wait stuff out. Sometimes you have a thing and it's sort of like, well, let's see if it goes away, you know, to give yourself a window.

Like, you know, most of the time something's not going to kill you that quick. Right. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it might go away. A lot of things go away, depending what it is. We have our own fun variety of medical OCD, I think, you and I.

Are you calling it that as opposed to hypochondria? I guess, yeah, why do I? I call it, like, health OCD. Because I think it's just the constant, like, on body check. The thoughts, like, spiral in a loop that I think are suggestive of OCD. It's obsessive. It's obsessive. As opposed to hypochondriac, right?

I don't know what the hell of the difference is. Yeah. Health OCD is cute. It's like, I think you call it like that because of the interface with the ability to look up symptoms. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But still you think you're dying.

Your whole life, at least from me, I feel like people called me a hypochondriac, so it's like an insult. And if it's like I say health OCD. Yeah. To health OCD. Yeah. Okay. Something you have. It's not something you are.

Yeah. It's not my fault. It's not your fault. Hi, little Tony. Oh, Tony's on the, he's on the run. We had another quote, actually, that we really liked from the production side of yours, Mark. Yeah. You once said that the two most embarrassing things a man can do is sob uncontrollably.

and experience profound joy. What do you guys think about that? About men, the sob uncontrollably or experience profound joy. Yeah, because they both look so silly. I'm so real. You know what I mean? You don't want to be the guy that's like, oh, you know.

Or like, yeah, it almost takes sobbing over like joy. Are these cats okay? Does someone want to come rescue? experienced the sobbing uncontrollably my my partner died you know there was no stopping a lot of that you know when i was i i trying to deal with the grief and it was covid i went away i went to new mexico up to taos to try to hang out and i went and saw my friend devon i remember we were just eating you know we're just sitting there eating and i couldn't stop and it just i just started crying, I couldn't stop.

When you really can't control it, you know, it is what it is. I mean, I guess it's embarrassing, but there's probably another way to look at that. I'm totally in support of men crying. I'm not in support of men being happy. That's like, doesn't make sense to me. I know you hate happy men. It's just like not normal to me. I think because like I have

like, what's an example of a happy guy? Like gleeful. My comfort zone is sad men. Like my dad, my partner, like a man should be sad. Like, that's masculinity to me. Really? Yeah. I know what you're saying, but I think that when that like verges on the inability to express any kind of joy and gratitude. I don't think it should. I think that could be peppered in. I mean, do you feel like you're a sad man? You're a sad guy, right? You're not happy.

What do you think, Esther? You've traveled with me extensively. I think you have an opinion on it. I think there's sad presenting and then there's actually really sad. Look, I'm a sad, I think a sad, a bit sad person, but I've, you know, I manage and I'm cranky. And I do know how to, I'm interested in things. I wouldn't say I'm depressed. I think I get excited. I don't experience a lot of happiness. I'd like to experience more.

But I think that there's like, you know, the idea of what a happy man looks like, that's also a broad spectrum. Yeah. You know, some guys can be grounded. Some guys can be at peace, which is. different than happy per se. Some guys are okay with shit. I mean, I don't know what happy looks like, prolonged. But the sobbing thing, I think it's just been culturally accepted that it's embarrassing. You know, you don't want to be, no one wants to be crying in public. I mean, see it, I think, more with women, but, you know, usually there's a guy yelling. If there's a woman crying,

there's a guy going, I'm sorry. I'm fucking sorry. I also feel like you share a trait with me, which is that you're kind of like low-key obsessed with one of your exes, which I have ex-obsessions. I'm trying to. Which one? I feel like you mentioned there's one that you email. Oh, yeah, but that's like done. I mean, like it is, I mean, yes. Okay. So it is low-key, yeah. It's low-key in that understanding, and I talked about this with somebody today. Today. Well, here's the thing about exes, especially ones. Is it like Like you keep them in a place in your head

Right? Like how you look at your time with them And how they do is very different probably Yeah Like I think to that woman I was just this mistake I was just bad time I mean bad timing or bad you were a bad time Well I just think like you know we got married stupidly

You know I was like emotionally abusive and crazy And newly sober for a lot of it And it was just bad But like I at this point in my life. I'm like, yeah, it was a long time ago. I hope she's okay and whatever. So there is this idea that I just would like to run into her just to be like, wow. I mean, the fact that I live in the same city as her and I haven't seen her in like 20 years. It's crazy. Don't they say that's when you know for sure that the loop is closed? 20 years? Yeah. In 20 years, if you do not run into the person

that you once knew in your life, then that story is for sure closed. Is what I don't know. I guess so. No, I disagree. And I am so on your level of like there are certain people, whether it's ex-friend, ex-boyfriend, like, how have I not run into them? I would love just that moment to just be like. I don't know. What would it be for you? What would it be for you? The alternative, which is I ran into an ex three times and one weekend. Was it Bobby Lee who you work with? No. And it was, it was strange. And it was awkward and it was, I wish it wasn't, it was weird. That's because you're probably the person that had the bad time. Possibly. And were like the person that made the bad time.

Possibly, possibly. I kept running into this ex-a-like, she, like, it was a bad one. She scared me. Were you running into her? Was she finding you? No. But I just remember, Kit and I were going to movies. And I just saw this woman in the lobby.

And I was like, I grabbed Kit's hand. I'm like, we got to go. Like, I'm like, I literally start running almost, you know. And she's like, what? And I'm like, but then I kept running into her. And it was okay. It was okay. And I think it was traumatic for me and for her.

And I think that my marriage to that woman, who I'm mildly obsessed with, you know, was horrible for her. And, you know, we went through a horrible divorce and I was a pretty horrible guy. And, you know, and I understand all that. And I think that my desire to run into her would just, just be to be like to see how it would feel almost as a check-in to be like do i feel something or do i feel nothing no no just sort of like hey we're okay you know like i did okay there's that too like i did good that's so that's what i was thinking about you because i know that when you had when that

relationship ended you were like kind of like down on the dumps in your career right it was terrible it was all terrible it broke but i do know like it took me a long time even after the divorce to realize like, you know, I didn't handle that well, the divorce, you know. I thought I was handling it in a righteous way, but it was really kind of fucked up. And I thought she was fucked up with that thing and how much she was really set out to sort of bankrupt me. I totally see, you know, my fault and all of it. And I, and I have made an amends, and I do feel bad about it. But I just think for me, and this might have something to do it with bad parents, is that, you know, when you have a time with somebody, especially one that lasted years, you do have a place in your heart for them.

It's in there. And it's in there for life. So, like, despite everything that went on, there is something about seeing them where you're like, hey, we had a time. You know, you're part of my heart. And I think that, you know, your heart probably craves that, even that moment, do you know, even if it was terrible. But for the other side of that, that person's like,

I never want to, my heart does not want to see that person. Yeah. I feel that too. And I, well, what I relate to specifically is like I have one X where it's like I'm like blocked on everything. There's like no way to see them. Whereas I have X is who I do run into. What the hell could you have done to deserve that? I know.

Just like your new. What did Esther do to be the monster? Your new girlfriend is a fatter version of me, nonstop texting. You did that? Yeah. What? That's that crazy. But yeah, that's where I got blocked on everything. So you were a bit of a monster.

Yeah. Can I just say from the receiving end, from being on the other side of someone who feels who is still mildly obsessed with me. Yeah. It's a little scary, guys. I get it. It's totally scary. I would be terrified. That's what I learned. Like I would. We agree. Okay. I would text this woman, you know, she got me sober. Yeah. You know, and I credit her for that.

and I would text her every year on my sober birthday, not text her, email her. You know, thank you for getting me sober, despite everything, you know, like, you know, how bad, whatever. I do, you know, I'm forever grateful, whatever. And then at some point, not that long ago, within the last, you know, probably decade, you know, I did that.

And then I got something back for the first time. And it said, if I want to hear from me, I'll let you know. And then I had that realization like, I'm that fucking guy. Like, we're once a year, she's got to be like, oh, fuck. Like, why, you know? But, like, after a certain point, like, just, like, don't talk about it. And everyone lives her life.

Do you have other exes that you kind of have any, like, hangups like that with where you wish you could connect with them or is it just the one? No, but, like, I mean, because that one, like, I really loved that person and I couldn't handle it. You know what I mean? Also, you guys were married. Like, that's a whole. Yeah, I mean, I really think I loved her.

Like if I look back at the best times of my life, they were like starting a relationship with that woman. But I couldn't handle it anything emotionally. And I was a jealous, possessive, crazy, insecure, fuck, angry, yelling. It was just bad. That's so relatable because I feel like we've all been like monsters and relationships at some point. Like I was for sure a villain and at least one or two relationships where I was jealous. And I remember throwing like full on like 93 mile per hour. pitched like chocolate coverage strawberries at this guy that I was dating was three in the morning

I was jealous because a girl was texting him you know whatever you've never gone wild like that Esther no I totally have I think it's just it's interesting to hear I feel like because we have a lot of like female guests and we have do a lot of girl talk it's interesting to hear from like the male perspective like I was in love I wasn't able to handle it totally that's like so profound totally I was also very totally taken with that woman as a a person who was not in the relationship with you. It is very healing for me to hear men say, hey, that was my bad. I fucked up. I was a monster. Because then I now believe there is some, you know, level of like, not just acknowledgement, but like a true like understanding of, okay,

men do see where they've fucked out. I was totally, you know, it took a lot of time to sort it out. But I was that toxic fuck. And I do this joke. Now I go. like, you know, I do believe that you can get better. I think that that you can become a better man. I think that the joke is I think all men are on the spectrum of toxic masculinity. But it's a big, broad spectrum. It goes from like insensitivity to dismemberment. So if, if you're somewhere in the the first third, you know, and you get some self-awareness, there might be hope for you. I'm on that spectrum too. I'm in the first third.

Yeah, in the first third. The toxic masculinity. Yeah. I've got it. No, I feel awful about a lot of it, but I've processed the best I could. My first wife, you know, I've, you know, I've seen her. And I left her for the other one, you know. And so she doesn't, you know, there's no reason for her to fucking like me.

But we have, you know, family connections. Like she was very good best friends with my brother's first wife. So, but we've reconnected a bit, you know, and she, She's, you know, it's not great. But if I go to Austin, I have dinner with her and her husband, or she's out here. We've had lunch and stuff. And it's okay. And again, it's the same thing.

You have all this history with somebody. Do you feel as, like, hopeful about love or would you ever get married again? No, no. Fuck, no. It's like a hard fuck. I don't know that I did love properly. You know, I don't know because of what we were saying about my parents. I don't know that I know how to trust, you know, or be selfless, really in a, you know,

in a way with my heart. Like, I can show up and be a good guy and do things for people. But, like, I don't know, like, about letting go still, and I'm old. And I think those are just old wounds. But I certainly would never get married again. And the last relationship I was in was we were both pretty autonomous and stubborn and angry. And I got a kick out of her. And I think she was, you know, okay with me.

But we didn't, we weren't taking a lot of risk. and ultimately we never lived together. But she wants to be married, so we just had to stop because I can't do that. Did you feel like you were ready, though, when you were with Lynn? Like, were you ready? Well, that was all started in insanity. You know, like I was with somebody else. And, you know, she was, you know, in a marriage that wasn't really working.

And it took a long time for us to sort of be free and to be with each other. And we didn't have that much time together. But I felt that, you know, in terms of her having, her own life and her own art and being beautiful and, you know, age appropriate and like, and just the sort of dynamic we had. I felt that there was a future there. Do you know what I mean? I don't know what that would have looked like. We didn't really have time. In the previous marriage, you were like in love, not ready. Did you feel like you couldn't handle it? Did you feel like you could handle loving? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it would have worked out because she was

grown and you know she she had been through what she had been through she had a certain amount wisdom i mean with my second wife i mean she was younger than me and you know and i was in a marriage i did in hopes that it would make me you know normal like i was like out of my mind i was a young angry comic with no real life you know experience i was in love with her i was struck i was consumed but is that healthy love Who the fuck knows what that is when you're in love with something? Have you felt that kind of like intensity sins for someone else like at this age? No.

Thank God. I don't fucking need that shit in my life. Interesting. I'll take like I'll choose no drama over that. I do wonder if it's just sort of like impossible for us to feel that level of intensity. Well, because that's like drug addict stuff. And I'm a drug addict. So believe me.

I'm looking for it. I'm so curious because it's like you know when you first like your first heartbreak is like so just devastating, right? And you never really, in adulthood, it doesn't quite match that level of intensity ever. But like, I do wonder. I wonder. I don't know if it's ever going to strike you. I don't know. I don't, I don't know that that heartbreak can't be that intense. I think that's wrong. I think heartbreak can can always level you, you know, no matter what it is. No matter what age you think. I mean, it's terrible. It's like it's loss. It's loss. Yeah. You know, it's just it's when you fight it like you know when when my second wife left me you know I was devastated and I could not

fucking function like I was fucked up and it just kept getting worse you know as a divorce went on were you able to stay sober then because if she got you sober I did I did well it's a I stayed sober through that and through uh Lynn dying you know I'd stay sober through it all yeah wow but no I think heartbreak like grief like the heartbreak of someone dying is its own thing. But I think when people leave, whether it's you or them, it hurts and it's weird and it's sad. Even, you know, even though in my last relationship, we ended civilly. But I think, especially if you have shitty boundaries and shitty parents, like the intensity

that you've experienced when you do get connected to a person is a bit much. Oh my gosh. I relate to that too, because I do feel a similarity in my upbringing of. like not a lot of them. Maybe it's not similar, I don't know, but like, I don't feel like I was emotionally connected. Like, I feel like my parents kept me safe. Yeah.

Like I was, I always say like I wasn't raised. I was watched. Like. That's funny. But so when I do feel an emotional connection with someone, it is like, it's so powerful. Yeah, you latch. I latch, yeah.

I latch quick. You latch, and you latch deep. Strong. Yeah, I fight the latching. I fight it. Like, I will opt for, for no drama. over having intense feeling. Like there's something, that's, those are the kind of decisions you make as an adult.

You can avoid the- Avoidant, I was going to say, you- Type of heartbreak. Yeah. But I know I'm crazy. So I know, like, I can't, like, I don't know what's in there. You know, I feel like I've evolved, but I'm also protecting myself from, you know, those types of relationships because I have boundaries.

But like if a crazy person gets in there, I don't, I'm old, but, you know, I'm old, but, you it could still happen. But couldn't it be good for you and feel intense? Or do you think that... Sure. Yeah, I'd like to get there. Yeah. Okay. Like to have a person that is not like a major threat to everything that I am.

Yeah. And have a healthy relationship with them. Yeah, I think it's possible. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Because I mean... It's the other thing. I'm too old for this fucking crazy shit. I don't think so. Esther, tell a story about your is it your aunt with a yacht. With a boyfriend with a yacht. Well, yeah, my 95-year-old aunt, actually she's 96, she has a, she has a boyfriend now that has a yacht.

Unfortunately, she used to be his mistress, and then his wife died, so now they're dating. How old did when they got together? My dad's wife used to be his mistress. Really? Yeah, my mom's still alive, though. Whoa. So does your mom, do your parents, do they? No.

They don't talk, no. No, she found out about it. It took a long time, but she found out of it. How did you find out? How did that affect you? You're just so disconnected at that point. You don't care? I was in my 30s, and it was hard to decide who to live with.

I was well far gone. I'm just happy that she's there now. Right. Yeah, a caregiver. She's all right. Everybody's okay. I feel like you got one more in you. One more crazy relationship ahead of you.

Wouldn't it make you feel so young and alive? No, I get enough attention. Yeah, I know, I know you do. And, you know, like, I feel alive and I feel, you know, vital. You know, I do okay. Yeah, no. And, you know, but there's part of me that's sort of like, I could take it down a notch, you know, we'll see. I don't want the crazy.

I'd like to sort of, you know, try to find something, you know, honest and, and try to stay in that as opposed to. Because I am an addictive guy. And like I got nothing. You know, like now I don't even have nicotine. You don't even have eggs. Yeah, no, I know. Maybe it should just start eating a little bit of meat. Yeah.

It's a gateway. A little ice cream. Yeah, yeah. You just don't want to be running around and fucking guy. Wait, I also want to ask because I feel like maybe it was sometime last year you had like a big run on all the, like you were on a big press tour. Oh, yeah. And you were going off on. and all the guys.

Yeah, where are you at now with that? Like, do you feel what? Well, it seems like some of them have sort of rethunk it a bit, but like I don't know that I can really, mostly Tim. And I think, I feel like Andrew is kind of rethunk it. I don't expect Theo to rethink much. And I don't like, you know, that's not a swag on him. And I think Joe knows where his bread is buttered.

But I think that, you. My problem was with their politics. I mean, I know all those guys, and I was clear about it. And, you know, and I believe I still feel that way. You know, but what's done is done. And, you know, now what do you really expect? I mean, Tim has been sort of surprising in that he is sort of like, you know, we fucked up. And this guy's, you know, bad news.

And he's conning everybody. But don't you think they all always knew? How could anyone not always have known that? I really think that a lot of people don't have a worldview. They react emotionally. And also they're looking to do what's best for them. But I really don't think in order to really get from, you know, I want to say trans, I want to say reach.

And that's what I'm going to vote for. I'm going to vote for anti-wokeness so I can have the freedom to do that. And to get there, from there to realize they're going to use that as an umbrella for all the policy necessary to dismantle liberal democracy on all levels under that anti-woke umbrella for them to know that that was going to happen would take a worldview and would take an engagement with what these guys wanted to do politically in the big picture and I don't know that they did that yeah they cherry picked what was convenient for their own like personal gain fundamentally not political people yeah right they're not following the narrative and they're not you know they're not necessarily

you know, they'll react to stuff. But I mean, there is something that's been going on for decades, you know, between the right and left or the right. There's a lot of things that I had to get hip to, you know, like when I was at Air America to sort of follow the narrative. And then once you get conspiracies and alternative sources of things where everything becomes dubious to you, like, you know, well, that's not sure. Where did you get your information? Like if you can say that to anything and there's no barometer for what truth is or what it isn't and uh then you're in some other fucking war you know you're in like a you're living in a conspiracy theory it's frustrating because i look at this i'm like what's worse that these people were so evil and selfish or that

they were actually just that stupid and i don't really know which one it is i think that once you get into the one percent that your life is that so like once you you sort of like look at all these guys, you know, jockeying for position in the 1%, hundreds of millions of dollars, you're talking a lot of money. So whatever, you know, goes on at the Kevin Hart roast or whatever racist thing they say, they're still flying far above the world and the average person and the average person's problems and concerns. They don't have any of them. But they don't have a recollection of the grind or the early years. No, because it was all, I don't know what their life is or it's all about success, but, you know, their day-to-day challenges are, they're, they're, they minds will be on Mars.

Yeah. So, like, it's, and it really is an insulated world that is about success and about numbers. And then also, like, like, someone like Tony, he likes the role of being the villain. Yeah. And, you know, what does that mean? And I think he likes Trump for the same reason. But, you know, who's running this? country and what's really happening and how is it all coming unhinged and the fact that we don't

we don't even have enough infrastructure to stop an outbreak of diarrhea virus you know like you know you know when does it impact guys who are are so rich that they don't have to live on the on the on the planet anymore I don't know but it's like look I'm not broke and I'm not you know working a manual labor job but I am empathetic to the to the struggle of people that are marginalized or minorities or in a certain type of trouble. And I do think that you lose a lot of what makes America amazing if you're all about white culture. Yeah, I just, I personally feel so confused where I sit now because I'm like, I started with a lot of those guys.

And it's like, we were just like broke people that like wanted to be artist. The antithesis of that. Yeah. Well, yeah. But it is art. It is art. I get what you're saying. But, you know, there are people that, you know, get into it for the big prizes. Right. So, like, there is a, like, I'm not a person that generally thought about money. And I still don't. Like, I had something to say. I still kind of feel that way. I'm happy that it worked out and I made some money. There was nothing I put in place to make that happen. There was no forethought to it. you know I lucked out I was at I was there at the beginning of something that coalesced around me and you know it worked out for me but I didn't have a plan to make money and I still don't I'm happy I did because it makes my life easier and and now that I have it you know I I do feel you know like a success in that way but like there comes a point where it's like how much money do you fucking guys need I think my point is just like like People who are creative and who are people that get on stage to express how they feel, it doesn't make sense to me that they're also like Republican.

Like that's just like my brain doesn't compute. I don't mean to jump to your. No. I don't think that there is a lot of creativity necessarily to having a point of view about a thing. Right. You know, these, you know, these aren't poets that you're not talking about, you know, 20, Brent Wine Box. I guess you're right.

You're not talking about, you know, Chris Fleming. You're not talking about Maria Bantford. You're not talking about people who set a bar that's way high and way unique and way different. And you're really like, I never looked at that way. You know, you're doing something above and beyond. I see what you're saying. Like, you know, there are artists within what we do.

Yeah. But most people are just looking for people to listen to what they have to say and to get as many people as possible to give them money. Right. Right. Make the drunk people laugh. Speaking of the diarrhea outbreak. This shit happens because, you know, there's, it always seems to happen.

But the fact that, you know, the government cutbacks no longer have infrastructure to track these type of outbreaks. Who wanted that? Like who? They cut everything. Who wants that? Why does like... They took all the money out of the government to give it to rich people.

Do our comedy peers actually want us to not have infrastructure? Not have hygiene, regulation, and medicine? Good question. But to your point, like if you don't have a worldview, you're not thinking that far ahead. And also, you're not buying shit at places where you're going to get sick. And also, you don't have to worry about seeing a doctor. And also, you don't have to worry about being infected by things that, you know, you're going to get from Taco Bell. That's so true.

I mean, it's like your worries are different, man. Concierge doctor for all of them. They don't even have to fucking worry about getting sick on a commercial airline. I can't wrap my head around it, I guess. Having that much money and being that excited to be that fucking rich? Well, just like to care that little about others. I want to know how you would act as a one percenter. Well, the one percent's pretty big.

But like, you know, are you talking like Kevin Hart one percent? I mean, I want to see Esther as like a private, you know, no commercial airline. Yeah. I would still, though, like I would totally, you're right, keep to myself. shut the world out. I'm, I'm a support of that, but I would still care. You'd have a nice pool. Yeah, I would but I would care about others still.

You think so. You think, you know? I do think so. I don't know. Maybe I would be evil. You never know. But just like, you know, people are interesting. Different types of people are interesting. You know, people should help people. These are like, you know, at what point, you know, did someone decide that like, you know, tolerance, you know, empathy, you know, liberal democracy, education, health care for all.

When did somebody, you know, just go like, enough of that shit? I know. Just get on board. Be cruel. That's what I don't get. It feels better to hate than it does to tolerate. That's where I'm stumped. Well, Mark, thank you for being here today.

Sure. Do it work out for you guys? For sure. All right. Thanks for making the drive to nowhere land. Am I going to REI? Are you really looking for new hiking shoes? Do you need them or are you, it's just a trip you want to take?

Because REI, I get it. It's so fun. Do I want to, do I really need them? Not today. But this is what happens when you have a lot of time and you want to get out of the symptom loop. I know. Go into the shopping loop. What do I need?

Yes, from loop to loop. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, Mark, we will see you guys. We'll see you soon. Okay. Bye.

Everybody see you next week. Bye. Bye. Go to Burbank Animal Shelter and they have kittens.